{"version":"1.0.0","segments":[{"startTime":0.0,"endTime":4.52,"body":"Humanists take on the world episode 27. What's an evangelical?"},{"startTime":10.16,"endTime":12.52,"body":"Welcome to another episode of humanists take on the world"},{"startTime":12.52,"endTime":18.4,"body":"I am Dustin and joining me trying to not spill her drink on the microphone is"},{"startTime":18.88,"endTime":20.88,"body":"Lauren. Hey"},{"startTime":20.88,"endTime":23.16,"body":"It's precarious guys. It was precarious. Oh"},{"startTime":25.04,"endTime":27.04,"body":"All right, so yeah, we're back"},{"startTime":27.8,"endTime":32.04,"body":"We are recording. Nope. Nope. We totally missed July. I"},{"startTime":32.92,"endTime":38.08,"body":"Said the last episode. I wasn't sure if we would get another one out in July"},{"startTime":38.76,"endTime":40.76,"body":"We tried we did. Um"},{"startTime":40.96,"endTime":46.88,"body":"Actually, we would not have gotten it out in July. So no, it's all right. Happy August everyone"},{"startTime":47.56,"endTime":52.96,"body":"Yeah, yeah, and for those of you who missed the last episode or are joining for the first time"},{"startTime":54.68,"endTime":56.52,"body":"The last"},{"startTime":56.52,"endTime":60.32,"body":"Over the course of about the last two years my mom went through"},{"startTime":62.8,"endTime":67.4,"body":"Interhepatic bile duck cancer and died in late June"},{"startTime":68.24,"endTime":70.24,"body":"so the show got"},{"startTime":70.8,"endTime":73.52,"body":"lighter and lighter and lighter as I"},{"startTime":74.32,"endTime":76.32,"body":"Had less and less capability"},{"startTime":77.32,"endTime":82.44,"body":"Which is understandable. Yeah going from publishing an episode weekly to"},{"startTime":83.44,"endTime":85.88,"body":"Not quite making monthly. Yeah"},{"startTime":86.52,"endTime":93.76,"body":"Yeah, we did get some feedback though on it from Vincent via the website about the five stages of grief"},{"startTime":94.08,"endTime":94.84,"body":"Hey guys"},{"startTime":94.84,"endTime":97.32,"body":"I was very sorry to hear about Dustin's bomb passing"},{"startTime":97.32,"endTime":100.68,"body":"But it was good to hear that you both seem to be dealing with it in a healthy way"},{"startTime":101.12,"endTime":107.64,"body":"But there was just one thing I couldn't let slide when I heard you guys say that the five stages of grief is something"},{"startTime":107.64,"endTime":111.4,"body":"Everyone has to go through. I immediately felt the need to look it up"},{"startTime":112.12,"endTime":114.52,"body":"Turns out that that is not the case"},{"startTime":115.16,"endTime":119.76,"body":"Individuals and cultures are all different and everyone experiences death or illness in their own way"},{"startTime":120.08,"endTime":124.32,"body":"Some will of course go through one or more of those stages and even other stages"},{"startTime":124.64,"endTime":130.12,"body":"All this to say that you are not weird for the ways in which you go through this phase of your life"},{"startTime":130.36,"endTime":132.36,"body":"You are perfectly normal and human"},{"startTime":133.24,"endTime":138.28,"body":"So and Dustin read that to be first initially. I wanted to get real defensive"},{"startTime":139.16,"endTime":145.24,"body":"Because it sounded like the person heard that line five stages of grief paused the show looked it up wrote us a female and"},{"startTime":145.92,"endTime":148.52,"body":"then maybe listen to the rest of the episode because"},{"startTime":149.16,"endTime":151.16,"body":"Through our ramblings"},{"startTime":151.64,"endTime":155.68,"body":"That wasn't what we were saying at all. We were saying traditionally. This is what's taught"},{"startTime":155.68,"endTime":158.6,"body":"This is what said, but this is not how it usually works out"},{"startTime":159.0,"endTime":161.84,"body":"Which is what this person also said"},{"startTime":162.56,"endTime":168.08,"body":"And we agreed with and so we all ended up with the exact same conclusion and is correct"},{"startTime":168.08,"endTime":173.2,"body":"So and the defense of anymore because and right and to"},{"startTime":174.04,"endTime":175.44,"body":"clarify on"},{"startTime":175.44,"endTime":181.6,"body":"You know like my position on it. I was basically quoting what I got taught in a"},{"startTime":182.48,"endTime":185.68,"body":"three or four hundred level psychology class at a"},{"startTime":186.8,"endTime":188.0,"body":"Adventist college"},{"startTime":188.0,"endTime":192.48,"body":"Anybody who knows everybody's heard of the five stages of grief one because they've studied it in high school"},{"startTime":192.8,"endTime":196.96,"body":"Uh-huh or two because of Simpson's episode or if you're weird part of it"},{"startTime":198.24,"endTime":203.44,"body":"It was covered in in several classes. You never saw the Homer Simpson death episode"},{"startTime":204.24,"endTime":208.64,"body":"The five stages of grief in like 30 seconds. The guy says, uh-oh, you're you're in real trouble now"},{"startTime":209.36,"endTime":216.16,"body":"I don't anyway, whatever. It's a it's a good joke. It's a good show. But um, yeah, no, it is different for everybody. It"},{"startTime":216.96,"endTime":218.96,"body":"There are themes but"},{"startTime":219.68,"endTime":222.16,"body":"It's like everything in psychology"},{"startTime":223.2,"endTime":225.2,"body":"Somebody a long time ago"},{"startTime":226.16,"endTime":228.8,"body":"Wrote a book wrote the text book"},{"startTime":229.44,"endTime":231.92,"body":"literally wrote a book based on"},{"startTime":232.96,"endTime":235.28,"body":"What seemed to be the most common"},{"startTime":236.32,"endTime":239.04,"body":"And they're white euro centric white christian"},{"startTime":239.76,"endTime":241.6,"body":"probably a"},{"startTime":241.6,"endTime":242.8,"body":"wealthy"},{"startTime":242.8,"endTime":245.84,"body":"White christian affluent. Yeah. Yeah, I got it"},{"startTime":246.64,"endTime":250.4,"body":"And then published that and then that becomes what's considered to be"},{"startTime":251.44,"endTime":253.44,"body":"the normative typical"},{"startTime":253.68,"endTime":259.36,"body":"Obviously people who are not neurotypical are not going to process the five stages the same"},{"startTime":260.0,"endTime":265.44,"body":"Yeah, absolutely not obviously whether or not you have a belief in a higher power"},{"startTime":266.4,"endTime":268.08,"body":"changes how you"},{"startTime":268.08,"endTime":270.08,"body":"interact with that"},{"startTime":270.08,"endTime":271.44,"body":"and"},{"startTime":271.44,"endTime":277.76,"body":"I absolutely did not mean by it that people in every culture everywhere on the planet"},{"startTime":278.64,"endTime":285.84,"body":"Yeah, no, but as somebody who went to school and studied some things and went to you know took some special classes about such things"},{"startTime":285.84,"endTime":287.84,"body":"This is what you were spoon fed"},{"startTime":288.4,"endTime":295.68,"body":"Just like everybody else who took those classes and everybody else who had interest in this stuff in high school and took psychology or whatever it's"},{"startTime":296.8,"endTime":299.84,"body":"Is considered standard when it's not and for"},{"startTime":300.32,"endTime":302.48,"body":"Neurotypical white christians it is"},{"startTime":303.44,"endTime":306.64,"body":"relatively standard or at least it's um"},{"startTime":309.6,"endTime":314.24,"body":"Enough to be considered standard. Yeah, okay. Yeah. Uh, I got this"},{"startTime":314.88,"endTime":316.88,"body":"when my when my nephew"},{"startTime":318.16,"endTime":320.88,"body":"overdosed I got to see the"},{"startTime":322.08,"endTime":324.96,"body":"Pentecostals on the other side of his family"},{"startTime":325.92,"endTime":327.92,"body":"Bargaining real heavy with god"},{"startTime":328.8,"endTime":331.6,"body":"I think the five stages of grief is a better"},{"startTime":332.72,"endTime":334.72,"body":"note for a baseline on"},{"startTime":335.36,"endTime":338.88,"body":"The different reactions you're going to see from people who are going through grief"},{"startTime":338.96,"endTime":343.44,"body":"It is not at all an outline of how you yourself are going to experience it"},{"startTime":343.52,"endTime":348.96,"body":"Yeah, but for somebody who say is a chaplain and is dealing with people who have to pull the plug on their kid"},{"startTime":349.2,"endTime":354.32,"body":"You're going to see a lot of emotions. You're going to see a lot of weird things that are outside the normal"},{"startTime":355.04,"endTime":358.08,"body":"human behavior the way it's taught though is that"},{"startTime":358.88,"endTime":360.88,"body":"basically that you need to be"},{"startTime":361.68,"endTime":365.84,"body":"helping guide people through those stages and make sure they don't skip a step because"},{"startTime":366.16,"endTime":369.84,"body":"They'll come back and haunt them if they don't okay. Well, I roll my eyes at that obviously"},{"startTime":370.32,"endTime":374.08,"body":"But using it as a baseline to help people guide through a process"},{"startTime":374.72,"endTime":380.64,"body":"That's helpful as a you know for as a therapist or a chaplain or a pastor or even just a rando"},{"startTime":381.52,"endTime":384.0,"body":"If you can help them guys say you feel angry"},{"startTime":384.56,"endTime":388.88,"body":"You know, you feel like bargaining with god. Do you feel like this that's normal? That's okay"},{"startTime":389.76,"endTime":393.52,"body":"Uh, so it is good to that this stuff is kind of taught on a basic level"},{"startTime":393.52,"endTime":397.36,"body":"But it should never be taught as a universal. It's just"},{"startTime":398.0,"endTime":402.32,"body":"These are some of the things we see in people. Yeah, this is what you might come across in the future"},{"startTime":402.8,"endTime":403.68,"body":"but"},{"startTime":403.68,"endTime":408.56,"body":"Yeah, thank you for the comment either way this and from js via patreon"},{"startTime":408.96,"endTime":412.96,"body":"Thank you for sharing your experience on htotw episode 26"},{"startTime":413.52,"endTime":416.0,"body":"death is a topic often avoided and"},{"startTime":416.64,"endTime":421.44,"body":"Shouldn't be as it affects us all the five stages of grief wasn't meant to be a strict rule"},{"startTime":421.44,"endTime":423.44,"body":"But whether rather a general guide"},{"startTime":424.08,"endTime":431.28,"body":"It's not linear nor every stage experienced merits of the paper aside excellent episode. Thanks again for sharing"},{"startTime":432.0,"endTime":433.68,"body":"Yeah"},{"startTime":433.68,"endTime":437.76,"body":"This makes me feel better because that means everybody you guys got it you got the point"},{"startTime":438.08,"endTime":442.32,"body":"What we were trying to make with her it sounded like we were making it or not"},{"startTime":443.84,"endTime":450.24,"body":"Particularly hard with chronic long-term illnesses where you having to go through these different feelings over and over and over again"},{"startTime":451.12,"endTime":453.52,"body":"Which is you know what what Dustin had to go through"},{"startTime":454.32,"endTime":456.32,"body":"And talking about death is still hard"},{"startTime":456.96,"endTime":461.52,"body":"It's still not something we are very comfortable with and I am way more comfortable with it than"},{"startTime":462.32,"endTime":466.64,"body":"Most people and most people then again. I I took a class on it"},{"startTime":468.24,"endTime":471.12,"body":"I did do some hospital chaplain training. I"},{"startTime":472.64,"endTime":475.6,"body":"Yeah, I got training to be comfortable with it"},{"startTime":477.2,"endTime":482.8,"body":"And for people who are comfortable with it. Yeah, it is important for us to talk about it because"},{"startTime":483.44,"endTime":486.32,"body":"That helps for people who aren't comfortable talking about it"},{"startTime":486.96,"endTime":489.52,"body":"Well, that's why that lady here in Boise has a death cafe"},{"startTime":490.24,"endTime":493.6,"body":"And she literally invites people to come out to as I think as a coffee shop"},{"startTime":494.24,"endTime":498.32,"body":"Once a month and you bring a journal or you write poems or you do something"},{"startTime":498.56,"endTime":500.8,"body":"You don't even have to have had experienced a death"},{"startTime":500.88,"endTime":506.08,"body":"You just go and explore those feelings because it better prepares you for when it does happen, but that's"},{"startTime":507.12,"endTime":509.28,"body":"That's nice. We need more of that in our society"},{"startTime":509.92,"endTime":515.2,"body":"We've got some oh if you want to contact us you can use the feedback form on the website"},{"startTime":516.8,"endTime":518.8,"body":"The speak pipe"},{"startTime":518.8,"endTime":522.16,"body":"Link in the show notes is fixed again"},{"startTime":522.96,"endTime":524.16,"body":"So"},{"startTime":524.16,"endTime":526.72,"body":"I don't think anybody's ever used it though. Well, no, but"},{"startTime":527.2,"endTime":531.52,"body":"For sure. Nobody's used it in the last year and a half because it's been broken. Oh"},{"startTime":532.32,"endTime":533.76,"body":"That's fixed now"},{"startTime":533.76,"endTime":538.72,"body":"Yay. All right. And uh, yeah, the voicemail line. Nobody's used in a year"},{"startTime":539.44,"endTime":544.4,"body":"Uh, okay. We've been half hiatus for a year. Absolutely. So that's fine. Yes, but you can always"},{"startTime":544.8,"endTime":549.04,"body":"Contact you want to hear your beautiful voices, but we have a new story you want to talk about"},{"startTime":552.8,"endTime":554.8,"body":"You"},{"startTime":556.72,"endTime":559.68,"body":"By now you have probably all heard about the"},{"startTime":560.88,"endTime":567.28,"body":"Four students that were killed in Moscow, Idaho last year brutal brutal murder brutal"},{"startTime":568.32,"endTime":569.68,"body":"knifing"},{"startTime":569.68,"endTime":570.96,"body":"murder"},{"startTime":570.96,"endTime":573.04,"body":"The suspect was hunted down"},{"startTime":574.08,"endTime":576.08,"body":"On the east coast brought back"},{"startTime":576.96,"endTime":578.96,"body":"Is facing trial? Uh"},{"startTime":579.52,"endTime":587.84,"body":"Big story at the height of true crime podcast era. Yes, uh, which led to its own set of issues"},{"startTime":589.04,"endTime":594.64,"body":"Where on a side issue like this actually has nothing to"},{"startTime":595.68,"endTime":598.88,"body":"Nothing actually to do with the killings"},{"startTime":599.84,"endTime":601.84,"body":"Or the trial or any of that"},{"startTime":602.48,"endTime":604.48,"body":"There is a tiktokker"},{"startTime":604.88,"endTime":606.4,"body":"who claimed"},{"startTime":606.4,"endTime":611.2,"body":"That a university of Idaho professor was the murderer"},{"startTime":612.08,"endTime":614.08,"body":"Because she was having an affair"},{"startTime":615.36,"endTime":619.12,"body":"With one of the women in the house that got killed"},{"startTime":620.0,"endTime":625.6,"body":"Okay, okay. So influencer so um totally not respected at all and uh"},{"startTime":626.64,"endTime":631.84,"body":"Claims that there was an affair therefore was responsible for the murder of four people"},{"startTime":632.88,"endTime":636.16,"body":"Including this woman to cover up the affair cover up the affair"},{"startTime":637.28,"endTime":639.44,"body":"Okay, just were"},{"startTime":639.44,"endTime":641.84,"body":"Yes, same page there. That's the professor"},{"startTime":642.72,"endTime":651.44,"body":"Rebecca Schofield is the professor and she filed a defamation lawsuit in December of last year against the tiktok"},{"startTime":652.72,"endTime":653.84,"body":"user"},{"startTime":653.84,"endTime":655.84,"body":"Ashley Gulliard"},{"startTime":656.0,"endTime":660.96,"body":"Because not a single statement she made was true"},{"startTime":662.32,"endTime":663.92,"body":"There was a murder"},{"startTime":664.0,"endTime":668.32,"body":"Yes, she got that okay that that one detail was correct. There was no affair"},{"startTime":668.96,"endTime":671.76,"body":"Schofield did not know any of the students"},{"startTime":672.24,"endTime":676.0,"body":"No, let alone have any involvement with any of the students"},{"startTime":676.88,"endTime":677.92,"body":"Yeah"},{"startTime":677.92,"endTime":681.84,"body":"And she was just as shocked and horrified by this as everybody else in the state"},{"startTime":682.56,"endTime":684.56,"body":"Which was everybody else in moscow"},{"startTime":684.72,"endTime":686.72,"body":"by the time this"},{"startTime":687.04,"endTime":691.2,"body":"Yeah, and and by that time the suspect was already"},{"startTime":692.0,"endTime":694.0,"body":"the suspect tracked down"},{"startTime":695.28,"endTime":697.12,"body":"Through dna"},{"startTime":697.12,"endTime":699.12,"body":"Found at the crime scene"},{"startTime":699.6,"endTime":701.6,"body":"On the murder weapon"},{"startTime":703.04,"endTime":705.04,"body":"Was already in custody"},{"startTime":705.12,"endTime":706.08,"body":"so"},{"startTime":706.08,"endTime":708.0,"body":"Yeah"},{"startTime":708.0,"endTime":711.44,"body":"So she filed the defamation lawsuit in december 2022"},{"startTime":711.68,"endTime":713.68,"body":"Which tells you know that's"},{"startTime":713.68,"endTime":718.4,"body":"That doesn't make for a very interesting story if it was just a person who randomly chose a random person"},{"startTime":718.4,"endTime":724.72,"body":"But it's the background of this tiktok or that it's just like what the fuck so the"},{"startTime":725.84,"endTime":727.84,"body":"Gulliard"},{"startTime":728.4,"endTime":731.2,"body":"You know, of course she refused to take down the videos"},{"startTime":732.72,"endTime":734.72,"body":"Which got her the lawsuit"},{"startTime":735.12,"endTime":738.16,"body":"She is still refusing to take down the videos"},{"startTime":738.64,"endTime":743.6,"body":"And she is also refusing to hire a lawyer to defend her"},{"startTime":744.24,"endTime":749.28,"body":"And is representing herself in court and ever ever at this point everybody goes ah"},{"startTime":750.16,"endTime":754.8,"body":"And nods like yep, she's one of those now if you defend yourself in court you're fucked"},{"startTime":755.52,"endTime":757.52,"body":"as a a podcaster"},{"startTime":758.32,"endTime":760.16,"body":"uh the"},{"startTime":760.16,"endTime":762.16,"body":"the risk of somebody"},{"startTime":763.04,"endTime":765.04,"body":"Being talked about on a show"},{"startTime":765.2,"endTime":772.4,"body":"Resulting in the threat of a lawsuit demanding the episode be taken down is something that I have thought about"},{"startTime":772.88,"endTime":774.88,"body":"several times"},{"startTime":774.88,"endTime":782.32,"body":"However, when I make a statement of fact about somebody it's based on a source"},{"startTime":783.12,"endTime":785.12,"body":"Opinion is not defamation"},{"startTime":786.16,"endTime":789.04,"body":"knowingly making false statements is"},{"startTime":790.48,"endTime":792.48,"body":"when it causes harm"},{"startTime":792.64,"endTime":794.08,"body":"so"},{"startTime":794.08,"endTime":799.04,"body":"This is not a case of a slaps suit to shut somebody up"},{"startTime":799.92,"endTime":801.52,"body":"Gulliard"},{"startTime":801.52,"endTime":803.52,"body":"has spiritual abilities"},{"startTime":804.56,"endTime":806.56,"body":"and divine revelation"},{"startTime":807.12,"endTime":808.56,"body":"is"},{"startTime":808.56,"endTime":810.56,"body":"how she knows"},{"startTime":810.96,"endTime":812.96,"body":"Who actually did it?"},{"startTime":812.96,"endTime":814.32,"body":"that"},{"startTime":814.32,"endTime":816.32,"body":"Ignore the guy"},{"startTime":816.32,"endTime":819.44,"body":"Who's been arrested and charged yep? It's going to trial"},{"startTime":820.16,"endTime":822.64,"body":"Uh who studied criminal"},{"startTime":823.36,"endTime":825.36,"body":"um justice"},{"startTime":825.6,"endTime":827.6,"body":"Obsessively apparently"},{"startTime":827.84,"endTime":830.88,"body":"This is going to be a Netflix drama. We know it is"},{"startTime":832.64,"endTime":835.36,"body":"Ignore all that and focus on this rando"},{"startTime":836.72,"endTime":837.92,"body":"And drag her knee"},{"startTime":837.92,"endTime":842.4,"body":"I mean, I remember this being this was big news when it hit because there was a shocking murder"},{"startTime":842.72,"endTime":848.0,"body":"And then this random professor was named as the killer her life was turned upside down for months"},{"startTime":848.56,"endTime":850.56,"body":"Yep, she was getting threatened"},{"startTime":850.88,"endTime":852.88,"body":"She she could have lost everything"},{"startTime":853.12,"endTime":856.56,"body":"Because this random person on tiktoks named her"},{"startTime":857.28,"endTime":859.92,"body":"How she even got the name. I don't know if she went through the phone book"},{"startTime":860.72,"endTime":861.36,"body":"or"},{"startTime":861.36,"endTime":866.16,"body":"Faculty director or something like what did she have a beef with this person? I have no idea"},{"startTime":866.24,"endTime":872.56,"body":"But it's it's this is exactly why these kinds of lawsuits exist because you can't ruin a person's life"},{"startTime":873.36,"endTime":878.64,"body":"Randomly for no apparent reason claiming god told you so and get away with it"},{"startTime":879.36,"endTime":880.48,"body":"uh"},{"startTime":880.48,"endTime":882.96,"body":"Yeah, gully art is making not just"},{"startTime":884.08,"endTime":887.44,"body":"Trying to get the case dismissed, but she's trying to do"},{"startTime":888.16,"endTime":890.4,"body":"counter claims"},{"startTime":890.4,"endTime":895.6,"body":"That everything she's saying is factual and that this lawsuit is ruining her life"},{"startTime":896.56,"endTime":897.84,"body":"thus"},{"startTime":897.84,"endTime":901.84,"body":"Scofield is at fault for getting these accusations against her"},{"startTime":902.56,"endTime":903.84,"body":"and"},{"startTime":903.84,"endTime":906.56,"body":"Like it's it's it's absolutely nuts"},{"startTime":906.64,"endTime":909.36,"body":"And I think this has all been played out before with psychics"},{"startTime":910.16,"endTime":911.36,"body":"You know, it's yeah"},{"startTime":911.36,"endTime":914.72,"body":"I mean the psychic claims that so-and-so is the murderer police department goes after them"},{"startTime":914.72,"endTime":921.84,"body":"It's not true. They sue the psychic for making it up basically and it this does not end well"},{"startTime":922.48,"endTime":923.76,"body":"no, no"},{"startTime":923.76,"endTime":924.96,"body":"and it's"},{"startTime":924.96,"endTime":931.92,"body":"Satisfying to watch her drag herself further down by itself representing and will continue to watch the story isn't it unfolds"},{"startTime":933.04,"endTime":935.84,"body":"All right. Well, let's move on"},{"startTime":939.36,"endTime":941.36,"body":"So"},{"startTime":946.24,"endTime":949.52,"body":"All right, so what is an evangelical?"},{"startTime":950.48,"endTime":952.48,"body":"Apparently I have no clue"},{"startTime":953.76,"endTime":959.84,"body":"We talk about evangelicals all the time. It's kind of important. They show up in news stories all the time"},{"startTime":960.48,"endTime":967.44,"body":"Pew pew surveys for for example the leading indication that somebody would be supporting trump"},{"startTime":967.92,"endTime":970.24,"body":"Is that they are a white evangelical"},{"startTime":972.08,"endTime":973.76,"body":"the"},{"startTime":973.76,"endTime":977.6,"body":"Leading into indication that somebody is a christian nationalist"},{"startTime":978.32,"endTime":981.44,"body":"Is that they are white evangelicals"},{"startTime":982.8,"endTime":989.68,"body":"The leading indication that somebody is a homophobic racist misogynistic"},{"startTime":990.56,"endTime":994.64,"body":"Horrible piece of ship bigot is that they are a white evangelical"},{"startTime":995.12,"endTime":996.64,"body":"but"},{"startTime":996.64,"endTime":998.64,"body":"What the hell is an evangelical"},{"startTime":1001.2,"endTime":1004.08,"body":"Yeah, because all these years Dustin's been using this word"},{"startTime":1005.04,"endTime":1009.36,"body":"To describe a segment of the population which I agreed with it's like, oh, yeah, they're definitely they're even no"},{"startTime":1009.36,"endTime":1012.96,"body":"Jokel until he mentioned the Seventh-day Adventists"},{"startTime":1014.24,"endTime":1021.28,"body":"Now in my mind Seventh-day Adventists one of their things is that they need to let everyone in the world know that Jesus was a thing"},{"startTime":1021.44,"endTime":1023.28,"body":"Before the end of the world could happen"},{"startTime":1023.84,"endTime":1027.92,"body":"They go out and they proselytize in my little crocodilian brain"},{"startTime":1028.08,"endTime":1033.76,"body":"I thought that if they're evangelizing that must mean they're even jellicles evangelicals"},{"startTime":1034.88,"endTime":1040.88,"body":"So that that that was my assumption and then he made this comment together. Oh, they're finally considered evangelicals"},{"startTime":1040.88,"endTime":1043.12,"body":"I'm like, what are you talking about? They always have been"},{"startTime":1044.0,"endTime":1047.92,"body":"And he's like, well, this is the definition. I'm like, well, what the hell does that mean?"},{"startTime":1048.8,"endTime":1053.84,"body":"And it was like it was like reading the dictionary for the first time. I was like, I didn't know"},{"startTime":1054.64,"endTime":1055.84,"body":"Okay, so"},{"startTime":1055.84,"endTime":1063.36,"body":"Loquialisms rule not not technicalities term evangelical dates back to Martin Luther. I can Luther's let's just mess and stuff up"},{"startTime":1063.68,"endTime":1066.88,"body":"We're talking 16 the 16th century. All right"},{"startTime":1069.04,"endTime":1070.24,"body":"It"},{"startTime":1070.24,"endTime":1072.56,"body":"Evangel literally means good news"},{"startTime":1073.68,"endTime":1075.68,"body":"It's the same as the gospel"},{"startTime":1075.84,"endTime":1077.28,"body":"the"},{"startTime":1077.28,"endTime":1078.56,"body":"gospel"},{"startTime":1078.56,"endTime":1084.24,"body":"Books of the bible the first four four books of the new testament are called the evangelists"},{"startTime":1084.56,"endTime":1086.56,"body":"Okay, especially in that time period"},{"startTime":1086.96,"endTime":1092.08,"body":"that is old timey language that has generally fallen out of favor as"},{"startTime":1093.2,"endTime":1095.2,"body":"gospel has gone to"},{"startTime":1095.2,"endTime":1097.04,"body":"mean that not you know"},{"startTime":1098.0,"endTime":1099.12,"body":"yeah"},{"startTime":1099.12,"endTime":1100.24,"body":"so"},{"startTime":1100.24,"endTime":1104.96,"body":"And he considered evangelicals to be the same as Protestants"},{"startTime":1105.92,"endTime":1106.96,"body":"also"},{"startTime":1106.96,"endTime":1111.2,"body":"Reformed at that time was the same as Protestants"},{"startTime":1112.4,"endTime":1117.6,"body":"Yeah, and at that mean the same anymore, but at that time what it meant"},{"startTime":1118.72,"endTime":1122.32,"body":"was that people who followed a reformed"},{"startTime":1124.24,"endTime":1129.12,"body":"Style of Christianity and were in protest against the catholic church"},{"startTime":1130.24,"endTime":1132.4,"body":"actually believed in the gospel"},{"startTime":1133.36,"endTime":1135.36,"body":"Unlike those dirty catholics"},{"startTime":1136.08,"endTime":1143.2,"body":"That's what it all comes down to that's versus them, right? That was that was the 16th century original"},{"startTime":1144.32,"endTime":1151.92,"body":"Evangelist or evangelical not catholic. It just meant not catholic. Okay, which we have so many words for"},{"startTime":1153.28,"endTime":1154.72,"body":"within"},{"startTime":1154.72,"endTime":1156.48,"body":"one generation"},{"startTime":1156.48,"endTime":1158.08,"body":"Protestant"},{"startTime":1158.08,"endTime":1160.08,"body":"and reformed were not"},{"startTime":1161.04,"endTime":1164.64,"body":"Synonyms, but overlapped venn diagram kind of thing"},{"startTime":1164.72,"endTime":1169.44,"body":"Not not really venn diagram reformed what became a subset of Protestants. Okay, okay"},{"startTime":1170.32,"endTime":1172.32,"body":"where that the reformed"},{"startTime":1172.72,"endTime":1174.4,"body":"churches were"},{"startTime":1174.4,"endTime":1176.4,"body":"those were the Calvinist churches"},{"startTime":1177.52,"endTime":1179.52,"body":"very strict"},{"startTime":1180.08,"endTime":1181.52,"body":"predestination"},{"startTime":1181.52,"endTime":1182.32,"body":"okay"},{"startTime":1182.32,"endTime":1183.76,"body":"while"},{"startTime":1183.76,"endTime":1185.76,"body":"Lutheranism was"},{"startTime":1185.76,"endTime":1187.76,"body":"soft predestination"},{"startTime":1188.16,"endTime":1190.16,"body":"and then you had"},{"startTime":1190.24,"endTime":1191.44,"body":"Arminianism"},{"startTime":1191.44,"endTime":1196.72,"body":"and Anglicanism with the rest of the the rest of the not catholics the Anglicans"},{"startTime":1196.96,"endTime":1202.0,"body":"Yeah, okay, and few weirdos who uh loved the weirdos was uh"},{"startTime":1202.8,"endTime":1207.52,"body":"That you could have free will and faith because initially the whole concept of"},{"startTime":1208.56,"endTime":1209.6,"body":"like"},{"startTime":1209.6,"endTime":1211.6,"body":"a big part of the original"},{"startTime":1212.64,"endTime":1216.64,"body":"Protestant Reformation was that you cannot choose to be"},{"startTime":1217.2,"endTime":1218.48,"body":"saved"},{"startTime":1218.48,"endTime":1220.48,"body":"Because that's a work"},{"startTime":1220.72,"endTime":1226.88,"body":"If you can even make the choice to accept salvation then that is doing something to earn salvation"},{"startTime":1227.44,"endTime":1231.76,"body":"And then it's not salvation by faith. That's still salvation by works"},{"startTime":1233.44,"endTime":1235.6,"body":"Okay, I'm sorry. This is another episode because"},{"startTime":1236.24,"endTime":1241.44,"body":"It's been long enough since we talked about this time. Just did you put booze in this? Yes, just drunk enough"},{"startTime":1241.68,"endTime":1243.68,"body":"I thought you wanted. I'm getting lost"},{"startTime":1243.84,"endTime":1247.2,"body":"No, I'm not getting lost. This is interesting and I'm getting diverted"},{"startTime":1247.76,"endTime":1252.64,"body":"I'm reverting but this is this is all this is all important. Okay to understand it. So it is"},{"startTime":1253.52,"endTime":1256.96,"body":"There was the history for you. There was the split between"},{"startTime":1257.68,"endTime":1263.04,"body":"Right, right. So so then this is so important. That's what every history it ever has ever said"},{"startTime":1264.0,"endTime":1266.0,"body":"so the the"},{"startTime":1267.12,"endTime":1269.12,"body":"with time"},{"startTime":1269.68,"endTime":1272.32,"body":"Free will Protestant theology"},{"startTime":1273.92,"endTime":1275.92,"body":"became a thing"},{"startTime":1276.32,"endTime":1279.04,"body":"And it's what the Anglicans went for"},{"startTime":1279.92,"endTime":1280.88,"body":"and"},{"startTime":1280.88,"endTime":1283.92,"body":"various other movements went for it as well"},{"startTime":1284.8,"endTime":1290.16,"body":"Free will theology was difficult for Protestants for the reasons we we already mentioned but"},{"startTime":1292.08,"endTime":1299.04,"body":"And how that all works out is incredibly complicated and there are very acinine books"},{"startTime":1299.92,"endTime":1306.16,"body":"Libraries of acinine books about how those all interplay and podcasts. I'm sure"},{"startTime":1307.2,"endTime":1309.2,"body":"Yeah, schisms"},{"startTime":1310.48,"endTime":1314.56,"body":"Schisms never got that. Okay. You weren't you weren't able to get that. You were never made it to the first"},{"startTime":1314.56,"endTime":1316.8,"body":"Never made it that far. Yeah someday"},{"startTime":1317.76,"endTime":1319.04,"body":"So"},{"startTime":1319.04,"endTime":1322.88,"body":"Protestant reform started meaning different things. Okay, and then"},{"startTime":1323.92,"endTime":1327.84,"body":"Around the time of John Wesley in the 18th century"},{"startTime":1328.8,"endTime":1331.92,"body":"part of the first great awakening there was the"},{"startTime":1332.96,"endTime":1336.32,"body":"beginnings of the early evangelical movement"},{"startTime":1337.28,"endTime":1339.28,"body":"Okay, so what does that mean?"},{"startTime":1340.24,"endTime":1342.24,"body":"these were people who"},{"startTime":1342.88,"endTime":1345.6,"body":"strongly promoted that to be"},{"startTime":1346.56,"endTime":1349.92,"body":"A true Christian you needed to be born again"},{"startTime":1350.88,"endTime":1354.64,"body":"You had to actually have a conversion experience"},{"startTime":1355.44,"endTime":1357.44,"body":"That the water dunking or"},{"startTime":1358.08,"endTime":1364.24,"body":"Necessarily alone in a cave for a week. No doing drugs. No, I think no the"},{"startTime":1365.2,"endTime":1366.88,"body":"so for"},{"startTime":1366.88,"endTime":1368.24,"body":"for"},{"startTime":1368.24,"endTime":1371.28,"body":"churches like the Methodist which john wesley"},{"startTime":1372.08,"endTime":1373.52,"body":"established"},{"startTime":1373.52,"endTime":1375.52,"body":"uh infant baptism"},{"startTime":1375.52,"endTime":1377.52,"body":"was continued to be practiced"},{"startTime":1377.92,"endTime":1379.04,"body":"but"},{"startTime":1379.04,"endTime":1384.32,"body":"There was expected to be a conversion experience that would happen sometime"},{"startTime":1384.64,"endTime":1388.16,"body":"later that the baptism was about bringing you into the community"},{"startTime":1389.2,"endTime":1393.04,"body":"the churches that rejected infant baptism the baptists"},{"startTime":1394.0,"endTime":1396.0,"body":"and a baptist and later baptists"},{"startTime":1396.8,"endTime":1400.32,"body":"uh that baptism was part of that conversion experience"},{"startTime":1401.04,"endTime":1403.92,"body":"Oh, which is why they do the baptisms way way way later"},{"startTime":1405.2,"endTime":1411.28,"body":"Because that's part of the conversion process versus an infant can't make that decision right the 12 year olds can"},{"startTime":1412.24,"endTime":1418.4,"body":"Right. Yeah, they get busted with something and need to make good with mommy and daddy sure"},{"startTime":1419.36,"endTime":1421.12,"body":"so then"},{"startTime":1421.12,"endTime":1429.28,"body":"That was the the so the early form of the evangelical movement was focused on the conversion experience the"},{"startTime":1430.56,"endTime":1435.36,"body":"person being changed by salvation and becoming a better person"},{"startTime":1436.16,"endTime":1438.16,"body":"and sharing that with others"},{"startTime":1438.64,"endTime":1443.84,"body":"Okay, so does that mean that born again is just another word for"},{"startTime":1444.64,"endTime":1447.92,"body":"Evangelical evangelical yes those are interchangeable"},{"startTime":1448.72,"endTime":1453.44,"body":"Yes, okay, and still today they are interchangeable almost always"},{"startTime":1454.16,"endTime":1459.04,"body":"There's always an asterisk with you. Yes, but okay almost always the most part for this"},{"startTime":1459.36,"endTime":1461.76,"body":"If somebody says they are born again that person is"},{"startTime":1462.24,"endTime":1464.08,"body":"Almost definitely"},{"startTime":1464.08,"endTime":1469.76,"body":"Some kind of evangelical whether they would identify as an evangelical or not"},{"startTime":1470.64,"endTime":1472.08,"body":"Okay"},{"startTime":1472.08,"endTime":1473.36,"body":"Okay"},{"startTime":1473.36,"endTime":1477.68,"body":"Because that's where it also gets tricky. So but we'll get to get to there"},{"startTime":1478.32,"endTime":1480.32,"body":"uh, so as"},{"startTime":1480.32,"endTime":1483.68,"body":"As time progressed the evangelicalism"},{"startTime":1484.72,"endTime":1490.0,"body":"Was a general movement within christianity. It was not denominations"},{"startTime":1490.88,"endTime":1492.56,"body":"it was"},{"startTime":1492.56,"endTime":1496.32,"body":"Just a general movement within christians across"},{"startTime":1496.96,"endTime":1502.08,"body":"Protestant denominations. Okay, so you could find evangelicals in every church"},{"startTime":1502.96,"endTime":1506.0,"body":"That didn't mean they needed to leave that church and start other churches"},{"startTime":1506.72,"endTime":1509.44,"body":"Although many of them did many of them did"},{"startTime":1510.24,"endTime":1516.88,"body":"I've heard so many evangelical churches and so was basement because their church wasn't right. I'll do it better themselves"},{"startTime":1517.68,"endTime":1519.12,"body":"so then"},{"startTime":1519.12,"endTime":1521.12,"body":"that continued"},{"startTime":1522.0,"endTime":1523.44,"body":"Until"},{"startTime":1523.44,"endTime":1526.32,"body":"You know evangelicalism was kind of starting to die out"},{"startTime":1527.04,"endTime":1530.64,"body":"Around the the turn of the 20th century and it had a resurgence"},{"startTime":1531.92,"endTime":1534.32,"body":"That really took hold in the 1980s"},{"startTime":1535.28,"endTime":1538.0,"body":"with the moral majority and ronald ragan"},{"startTime":1538.88,"endTime":1540.88,"body":"and roversus weighed and"},{"startTime":1542.4,"endTime":1544.4,"body":"They all got funneled into the republican party"},{"startTime":1545.12,"endTime":1548.4,"body":"And that's how we get to modern evangelicals. Okay"},{"startTime":1548.96,"endTime":1555.36,"body":"Now the way the term gets used evangelical the term uses use so much differently nowadays"},{"startTime":1555.36,"endTime":1563.04,"body":"And it was ever used when I was growing up before high school. I like yeah different so pre september 11. I would say in"},{"startTime":1563.92,"endTime":1565.68,"body":"in general when"},{"startTime":1566.96,"endTime":1568.96,"body":"somebody is talking about"},{"startTime":1569.68,"endTime":1573.84,"body":"Evangelicals as a subset of christianity"},{"startTime":1574.72,"endTime":1576.72,"body":"that is somebody who"},{"startTime":1577.52,"endTime":1579.28,"body":"breaks"},{"startTime":1579.28,"endTime":1584.48,"body":"Protestant christianity at least in the united states really into three categories"},{"startTime":1585.28,"endTime":1586.8,"body":"mainline"},{"startTime":1586.8,"endTime":1590.08,"body":"Well, okay mainstream no mainline main line"},{"startTime":1591.04,"endTime":1599.36,"body":"Um, okay. There's gonna be actually be more more categories here. There's there's main line. Okay evangelical. Okay, the black church"},{"startTime":1600.4,"endTime":1602.4,"body":"And the weirdos"},{"startTime":1603.68,"endTime":1604.88,"body":"Okay"},{"startTime":1604.88,"endTime":1612.32,"body":"Okay. No, okay. Yeah, i'm seeing it now. I started noticing a few years ago on charts"},{"startTime":1613.36,"endTime":1618.56,"body":"Adventists not being listed separately with the Mormons and Jehovah's witnesses"},{"startTime":1619.52,"endTime":1622.64,"body":"with a capital w the weirdos the weirdos"},{"startTime":1623.52,"endTime":1625.04,"body":"and"},{"startTime":1625.04,"endTime":1628.08,"body":"at least by 2014 pew had"},{"startTime":1629.92,"endTime":1630.96,"body":"shifted"},{"startTime":1630.96,"endTime":1632.96,"body":"Adventists into"},{"startTime":1633.36,"endTime":1637.92,"body":"The evangelical grouping I really need to get that soundboard back going with the pew pews"},{"startTime":1638.56,"endTime":1640.56,"body":"It's over here. You just can't reach it"},{"startTime":1642.0,"endTime":1646.32,"body":"Smart, but I do need laser pew pews for every single time you say pew"},{"startTime":1648.88,"endTime":1651.84,"body":"And you just are calling them pew pews to get me to shut up"},{"startTime":1654.0,"endTime":1661.92,"body":"So so that's what what what what's what's interesting there is for in the case of Adventists they they started in the 1950s a"},{"startTime":1662.96,"endTime":1664.96,"body":"very concerted effort"},{"startTime":1665.6,"endTime":1666.56,"body":"to be"},{"startTime":1666.56,"endTime":1670.56,"body":"Viewed as mainstream getting out of the weirdos. Yeah"},{"startTime":1671.44,"endTime":1672.4,"body":"and"},{"startTime":1672.4,"endTime":1674.4,"body":"They work their asses off"},{"startTime":1674.88,"endTime":1676.88,"body":"buying up hospitals and"},{"startTime":1678.08,"endTime":1684.4,"body":"expanding how many people they were getting through medical school and dental school and nursing school and into communities everywhere"},{"startTime":1684.96,"endTime":1691.04,"body":"To get Adventists everywhere to get Adventists into positions where they're interacting with people everywhere"},{"startTime":1691.28,"endTime":1693.28,"body":"Right because it's good to have a community"},{"startTime":1694.08,"endTime":1698.72,"body":"But it's even better to have everybody spread out everywhere which Adventists had already been doing"},{"startTime":1699.28,"endTime":1702.64,"body":"But it was very much a focus on be in the community"},{"startTime":1703.6,"endTime":1707.2,"body":"not just live in these communities be in the community"},{"startTime":1708.16,"endTime":1710.64,"body":"and try and be more mainstream well"},{"startTime":1711.36,"endTime":1713.36,"body":"Adventists a whole damn it"},{"startTime":1714.32,"endTime":1715.36,"body":"And"},{"startTime":1715.36,"endTime":1716.88,"body":"blend in"},{"startTime":1716.88,"endTime":1721.84,"body":"Adventists city is sounded by by any definition of evangelical"},{"startTime":1722.16,"endTime":1726.4,"body":"Unless you get into the leucine covenant definition, which they are not"},{"startTime":1727.12,"endTime":1730.0,"body":"um, that's his own thing that we did an episode about"},{"startTime":1730.8,"endTime":1732.8,"body":"in march, I believe"},{"startTime":1732.8,"endTime":1734.16,"body":"uh"},{"startTime":1734.16,"endTime":1736.16,"body":"they are that they"},{"startTime":1736.64,"endTime":1741.44,"body":"Adventists have always been evangelical by any definition of the term"},{"startTime":1742.16,"endTime":1744.8,"body":"At least when I was growing up and going to"},{"startTime":1745.28,"endTime":1749.76,"body":"Adventist schools and getting a degree in theology and going to the Adventist seminary"},{"startTime":1750.56,"endTime":1752.56,"body":"Evangelicals were always other"},{"startTime":1752.96,"endTime":1756.56,"body":"We were not evangelicals the evangelicals were something else"},{"startTime":1757.52,"endTime":1758.88,"body":"and"},{"startTime":1758.88,"endTime":1760.88,"body":"from any"},{"startTime":1760.88,"endTime":1762.88,"body":"reasonable"},{"startTime":1763.04,"endTime":1766.8,"body":"External look at what Adventists are and what they do"},{"startTime":1767.92,"endTime":1769.92,"body":"They are evangelicals"},{"startTime":1770.0,"endTime":1772.16,"body":"They have the born-again experience. Yep"},{"startTime":1773.04,"endTime":1777.76,"body":"Um some kind of baptism or yeah adult baptism. They focus on"},{"startTime":1778.48,"endTime":1780.72,"body":"sanctification and doing good works"},{"startTime":1781.84,"endTime":1783.84,"body":"They just have weird you"},{"startTime":1784.64,"endTime":1788.08,"body":"Adventist revelation seminars are evangelistic series"},{"startTime":1788.72,"endTime":1794.16,"body":"They're literally called evangelistic series, which is why when you said oh look they're finally actually being included i'm like"},{"startTime":1795.04,"endTime":1797.12,"body":"But it's in the you can't"},{"startTime":1797.12,"endTime":1801.92,"body":"Graduate from the Adventist seminary without preaching an evangelistic series"},{"startTime":1802.08,"endTime":1806.24,"body":"Yeah, you have to do evangelism to be an Adventist pastor"},{"startTime":1807.44,"endTime":1810.24,"body":"And yet it was yeah, but that's not us"},{"startTime":1810.72,"endTime":1814.32,"body":"But evangelicals were people who went to church on sunday"},{"startTime":1815.04,"endTime":1816.56,"body":"And yeah"},{"startTime":1816.56,"endTime":1818.56,"body":"So somebody high up"},{"startTime":1819.12,"endTime":1824.8,"body":"Has been made the decision long ago and has been working their butt off to make sda's look more mainstream"},{"startTime":1825.2,"endTime":1828.0,"body":"Maybe and not in actuality, but in the media"},{"startTime":1828.96,"endTime":1832.88,"body":"I think the attempt was to try to get Adventists look like they were mainline"},{"startTime":1833.52,"endTime":1840.72,"body":"To make them look like they were methodists because it won't check nobody's opinions about that will change until they start showing up at a differently"},{"startTime":1840.72,"endTime":1842.72,"body":"in charts from pew"},{"startTime":1843.2,"endTime":1846.64,"body":"Now so somebody pew pushed this when it comes to"},{"startTime":1847.76,"endTime":1851.28,"body":"How the terms are being used in those charts"},{"startTime":1852.08,"endTime":1854.08,"body":"the mainline churches"},{"startTime":1854.4,"endTime":1856.48,"body":"Are the liberal and moderate churches?"},{"startTime":1857.12,"endTime":1865.04,"body":"So what's left of the methodist church is mainline the evangelical Lutherans, which are not evangelical"},{"startTime":1866.48,"endTime":1868.48,"body":"Lutherans your mainline"},{"startTime":1868.56,"endTime":1870.56,"body":"Not all Lutherans"},{"startTime":1870.56,"endTime":1875.6,"body":"Some Presbyterians and not all Presbyterians the episcopal not the anglicans"},{"startTime":1876.32,"endTime":1878.96,"body":"Yeah, because there have been a bunch of schisms"},{"startTime":1879.76,"endTime":1886.88,"body":"In these churches when it stopped when for the most part when the evangelicals within these denominations"},{"startTime":1886.96,"endTime":1889.92,"body":"weren't happy continuing to go to church with people who weren't"},{"startTime":1890.8,"endTime":1895.12,"body":"Evangelical and they started splitting which makes sense if you've had this born-again"},{"startTime":1896.08,"endTime":1901.36,"body":"Revelation you've chosen you know if you have this spiritual movement and then you find out the guy next you"},{"startTime":1902.32,"endTime":1904.32,"body":"I guess chose not to"},{"startTime":1905.04,"endTime":1908.72,"body":"You don't feel equal. Yeah, so if you look at the mainline churches"},{"startTime":1909.44,"endTime":1911.44,"body":"They're way more liberal"},{"startTime":1911.68,"endTime":1916.24,"body":"Most of them have ordained women as pastors if not all of them"},{"startTime":1916.96,"endTime":1917.92,"body":"uh"},{"startTime":1917.92,"endTime":1920.96,"body":"The the congregationalists are also mainline. So the"},{"startTime":1921.84,"endTime":1923.04,"body":"uh"},{"startTime":1923.04,"endTime":1925.76,"body":"The group that the Unitarian split from"},{"startTime":1926.8,"endTime":1930.4,"body":"That are still Christian. They're their mainline Christians"},{"startTime":1930.96,"endTime":1936.4,"body":"Um women pastors are common. They're they are pretty much all"},{"startTime":1937.28,"endTime":1942.0,"body":"Gay affirming are they the biggest slice of pie in america or are they"},{"startTime":1943.2,"endTime":1948.56,"body":"Like when main line you make it sound like the word the term main line makes it sound like they're the majority"},{"startTime":1948.88,"endTime":1951.52,"body":"But that doesn't sound like the majority of churchgoers"},{"startTime":1952.08,"endTime":1953.04,"body":"Uh"},{"startTime":1953.04,"endTime":1960.56,"body":"I don't know about attendees as far as membership goes they are about half of Protestants in the United States"},{"startTime":1961.44,"endTime":1963.04,"body":"Which would be"},{"startTime":1963.04,"endTime":1966.08,"body":"Main line. I get that. Okay. Main line is"},{"startTime":1967.04,"endTime":1969.04,"body":"A synonym of that is old line"},{"startTime":1970.56,"endTime":1972.56,"body":"That these are the old Protestant churches"},{"startTime":1973.52,"endTime":1976.16,"body":"And the evangelicals are the"},{"startTime":1976.88,"endTime":1981.92,"body":"The schismatic groups that broke out as a grammatically poor choice of words that now it's very confusing"},{"startTime":1983.2,"endTime":1988.32,"body":"So but this but the mainline church is one of the other big factors is they all accept"},{"startTime":1989.12,"endTime":1991.36,"body":"evolution and reject creationism"},{"startTime":1992.08,"endTime":1997.6,"body":"They usually go for some kind of intelligent design or theistically guided evolution"},{"startTime":1998.24,"endTime":2003.84,"body":"But they accept evolution and don't argue with the scientific facts. They try to interject god"},{"startTime":2004.64,"endTime":2006.64,"body":"At all the question marks"},{"startTime":2006.64,"endTime":2010.0,"body":"I haven't reintroduced that in like third grade. The boy I really really liked"},{"startTime":2010.72,"endTime":2011.84,"body":"Uh"},{"startTime":2011.84,"endTime":2016.64,"body":"Made that argument once when we're arguing about evolution in third grade because that's apparently what you do"},{"startTime":2017.12,"endTime":2020.0,"body":"Yeah, and uh, I just called bs on it. I'm like"},{"startTime":2020.88,"endTime":2022.88,"body":"but you know if that's"},{"startTime":2022.88,"endTime":2027.12,"body":"Makes sense if you think that there's definitely something there. There's some kind of gods. I'm kind of spiritual"},{"startTime":2027.28,"endTime":2035.6,"body":"Well, of course, then you maybe it was just pushed by them. Maybe if that makes sense to them now the evangelical churches in these groupings"},{"startTime":2036.4,"endTime":2038.4,"body":"are all of the"},{"startTime":2038.64,"endTime":2040.64,"body":"conservative churches"},{"startTime":2040.64,"endTime":2042.8,"body":"Who nearly all of them do not?"},{"startTime":2043.92,"endTime":2045.36,"body":"Ordain women"},{"startTime":2045.36,"endTime":2046.48,"body":"Right"},{"startTime":2046.48,"endTime":2048.48,"body":"There are a few not many"},{"startTime":2049.04,"endTime":2054.16,"body":"Uh, they are almost all young earth creationists with some room for intelligent design"},{"startTime":2054.96,"endTime":2056.8,"body":"They are anti-gay"},{"startTime":2056.8,"endTime":2060.72,"body":"Like that's the the churches that are in the the pentecostal camp"},{"startTime":2061.36,"endTime":2062.48,"body":"Um"},{"startTime":2062.48,"endTime":2066.4,"body":"It's going to be a lot more fundamentalist. It's the southern baptist. It's"},{"startTime":2067.6,"endTime":2070.64,"body":"95 of non-denominational churches"},{"startTime":2071.6,"endTime":2074.0,"body":"It's all of the pentecostal churches"},{"startTime":2074.88,"endTime":2080.72,"body":"It's the offshoot from the methodist church. It's the Anglican church in america"},{"startTime":2080.96,"endTime":2082.24,"body":"it's"},{"startTime":2082.24,"endTime":2088.16,"body":"most of the presbyterian church well the missouri synod of the presbyterian church it's"},{"startTime":2090.48,"endTime":2094.8,"body":"It's confusing. Yeah, would you try to get into too many details, which is why a lot of people don't"},{"startTime":2095.68,"endTime":2101.2,"body":"Why it's hard to actually find solid answers on what these terms mean because some people will call themselves one thing"},{"startTime":2101.28,"endTime":2105.36,"body":"But they are another thing, but that thing is also an innocent of them for another thing"},{"startTime":2106.4,"endTime":2113.28,"body":"And it all just sounds crazy to an atheist because there are there are evangelical denominations"},{"startTime":2114.4,"endTime":2116.24,"body":"That call themselves evangelical"},{"startTime":2116.8,"endTime":2120.56,"body":"There are mainline denominations that call themselves evangelical that are not"},{"startTime":2121.6,"endTime":2127.04,"body":"There are evangelical denominations who would not identify themselves as evangelical"},{"startTime":2127.6,"endTime":2132.4,"body":"Such as the seventh amethyst church despite being evangelical there are"},{"startTime":2133.52,"endTime":2137.68,"body":"Evangelicals who are members of mainline Protestant denominations"},{"startTime":2138.88,"endTime":2140.88,"body":"Yeah, okay, it's messy"},{"startTime":2141.52,"endTime":2144.56,"body":"absolutely most of my religious studies"},{"startTime":2145.68,"endTime":2148.4,"body":"Uh pretty much went out the window when I started watching anime"},{"startTime":2148.88,"endTime":2154.72,"body":"And I started watching neon genesis even gellian and I couldn't even pronounce the word correctly anymore by the time I hit high school"},{"startTime":2155.28,"endTime":2159.04,"body":"So that's that's where I was coming from so I"},{"startTime":2159.92,"endTime":2164.56,"body":"Did a lot of studying and like late middle school before they started like really eyeballing me at school"},{"startTime":2166.4,"endTime":2170.24,"body":"Just started kind of started shutting that down and then once I got into anime that was the end of that"},{"startTime":2170.72,"endTime":2175.84,"body":"so when people talk about evangelicals it is a synonym for"},{"startTime":2177.36,"endTime":2179.6,"body":"conservative mainstream Christians"},{"startTime":2180.48,"endTime":2182.88,"body":"Jehovah's witnesses and Mormons are not evangelicals"},{"startTime":2183.68,"endTime":2185.2,"body":"They are other"},{"startTime":2185.2,"endTime":2188.0,"body":"Jehovah's witness don't have like any kind of born-again experience"},{"startTime":2188.64,"endTime":2193.52,"body":"Uh, they don't believe neither Jehovah's witnesses nor Mormons believe that Jesus is god"},{"startTime":2194.32,"endTime":2196.48,"body":"Oh trinity thing. Yeah, okay"},{"startTime":2197.12,"endTime":2199.76,"body":"Non-trinitarian automatically puts you into a different group"},{"startTime":2200.08,"endTime":2205.84,"body":"Which is one of the reasons why adventa started in the weirdo groups and it took them"},{"startTime":2206.88,"endTime":2210.8,"body":"50 years to get moved into one of the non weirdo groups"},{"startTime":2211.44,"endTime":2216.96,"body":"Uh, the the doxology is a a hymn that most churches have"},{"startTime":2217.68,"endTime":2218.64,"body":"that"},{"startTime":2218.64,"endTime":2223.28,"body":"the trinitarian version ends with father son and holy ghost"},{"startTime":2224.32,"endTime":2225.6,"body":"the"},{"startTime":2225.6,"endTime":2230.72,"body":"Adventist hymnal did not add that part that line did not put that line in"},{"startTime":2231.52,"endTime":2232.8,"body":"until"},{"startTime":2232.8,"endTime":2234.8,"body":"the 1980 edition"},{"startTime":2235.12,"endTime":2237.12,"body":"the earlier editions"},{"startTime":2237.12,"endTime":2239.12,"body":"Of the hymnal were non-trinitarian"},{"startTime":2239.92,"endTime":2243.92,"body":"They shouldn't feel like they have to change themselves to be accepted by society"},{"startTime":2244.64,"endTime":2251.92,"body":"They had the Adventists had mostly moved that direction by that point. Okay, uh, but the question is like why would they do that?"},{"startTime":2251.92,"endTime":2254.16,"body":"Why would they push themselves to be something they're not?"},{"startTime":2255.12,"endTime":2260.48,"body":"I I actually did a I did a paper on it in in the seminary on uh"},{"startTime":2261.52,"endTime":2262.8,"body":"when"},{"startTime":2262.8,"endTime":2264.8,"body":"at what point Adventists"},{"startTime":2264.88,"endTime":2270.08,"body":"Became trinitarian and the earliest reference I found to the holy spirit"},{"startTime":2271.52,"endTime":2274.4,"body":"As part like what I basically found is by about"},{"startTime":2275.84,"endTime":2277.84,"body":"1875 ish"},{"startTime":2279.04,"endTime":2280.0,"body":"Uh"},{"startTime":2280.0,"endTime":2282.0,"body":"Adventists had reviewing"},{"startTime":2282.4,"endTime":2289.52,"body":"Jesus as fully god the holy spirit was not viewed as like a person of any kind"},{"startTime":2290.16,"endTime":2293.04,"body":"Until the 1890s an entity an entity"},{"startTime":2293.68,"endTime":2294.56,"body":"Okay"},{"startTime":2294.56,"endTime":2297.12,"body":"That came about the 1890s was when that was first"},{"startTime":2297.84,"endTime":2302.56,"body":"Like the first mention I found in any Adventist publication referring to the holy spirit"},{"startTime":2303.44,"endTime":2307.68,"body":"As a person was 1890s it was 1890. Okay"},{"startTime":2308.48,"endTime":2310.48,"body":"and then"},{"startTime":2310.48,"endTime":2318.4,"body":"Very like virtually no discussion after that and then by the 1950s the church was just officially saying they were trinitarian"},{"startTime":2319.36,"endTime":2324.48,"body":"And it took another 30 years to get most of the members are"},{"startTime":2325.68,"endTime":2330.48,"body":"Come along with them on that so weird how religious evolve over time"},{"startTime":2330.96,"endTime":2335.76,"body":"Yeah, and the the leadership moves way faster than the membership usually. Yeah"},{"startTime":2336.72,"endTime":2337.84,"body":"um"},{"startTime":2337.84,"endTime":2339.12,"body":"but the uh"},{"startTime":2339.12,"endTime":2342.64,"body":"the final point on on evangelicals is when you look at some of the"},{"startTime":2343.44,"endTime":2344.96,"body":"the most"},{"startTime":2344.96,"endTime":2350.72,"body":"staunchly evangelical denominations. Okay, the the most quintessential is the southern baptist convention"},{"startTime":2351.28,"endTime":2352.96,"body":"uh, it is"},{"startTime":2352.96,"endTime":2353.84,"body":"the"},{"startTime":2353.84,"endTime":2355.2,"body":"largest"},{"startTime":2355.2,"endTime":2359.68,"body":"And the most influential within the the general evangelical movement"},{"startTime":2360.16,"endTime":2362.16,"body":"Which even using that term"},{"startTime":2362.24,"endTime":2366.32,"body":"There are evangelicals who are not part of the evangelical movement"},{"startTime":2366.88,"endTime":2369.6,"body":"because of course there are because of how words are"},{"startTime":2370.72,"endTime":2372.24,"body":"get used"},{"startTime":2372.24,"endTime":2378.96,"body":"um colloquial versus technical definitions and which technical definition because there's five or six of them"},{"startTime":2379.2,"endTime":2381.52,"body":"but the southern baptist church is the the most"},{"startTime":2382.32,"endTime":2383.6,"body":"quintessential"},{"startTime":2383.6,"endTime":2386.24,"body":"and the fact that evangelicals are"},{"startTime":2387.04,"endTime":2389.04,"body":"somebody being a white evangelical"},{"startTime":2389.36,"endTime":2390.64,"body":"being the"},{"startTime":2390.64,"endTime":2394.48,"body":"Single greatest predictor as to whether or not somebody is a christian nationalist"},{"startTime":2394.96,"endTime":2399.28,"body":"Should not be surprising considering the southern baptist church"},{"startTime":2399.92,"endTime":2402.72,"body":"Exists because of a split over slavery"},{"startTime":2403.52,"endTime":2405.52,"body":"and they were on the slavery side"},{"startTime":2406.16,"endTime":2408.48,"body":"through the segregation era the"},{"startTime":2409.44,"endTime":2413.44,"body":"Venn diagram of kkk members and southern baptists"},{"startTime":2414.4,"endTime":2420.72,"body":"overlapped greatly which you mentioned early on there was this multiple different types of"},{"startTime":2421.2,"endTime":2426.8,"body":"You know Protestants in america and you mentioned the black church. Yes. Where does the black church fit in all of this?"},{"startTime":2427.52,"endTime":2429.52,"body":"obviously if evangelical"},{"startTime":2430.24,"endTime":2432.24,"body":"I can't even say the word anymore"},{"startTime":2432.56,"endTime":2440.64,"body":"Uh something that can cross over multiple churches different denominations. Oh, that's true with black churches as well, right? I mean"},{"startTime":2442.48,"endTime":2445.52,"body":"Black churches absolutely can be evangelical"},{"startTime":2446.4,"endTime":2447.6,"body":"the"},{"startTime":2447.6,"endTime":2452.48,"body":"Traditionally black denominations aren't typically counted with the evangelicals though"},{"startTime":2453.2,"endTime":2454.64,"body":"because they"},{"startTime":2454.64,"endTime":2456.64,"body":"Don't fit neatly with that group"},{"startTime":2457.2,"endTime":2458.56,"body":"on like"},{"startTime":2458.56,"endTime":2462.32,"body":"with the pew study for studies for example, there's enough social differences that"},{"startTime":2463.12,"endTime":2468.16,"body":"They just don't mix or they're more lit the black churches are way more liberal"},{"startTime":2468.32,"endTime":2473.2,"body":"The the black evangelical churches are way more liberal than the white evangelical churches"},{"startTime":2473.6,"endTime":2477.52,"body":"because you need to think of black church going down to the river is like"},{"startTime":2478.4,"endTime":2480.4,"body":"one of those images that is"},{"startTime":2480.8,"endTime":2487.04,"body":"Firmly in in my mind about that's that's a part of those churches. It's that in the singing and the hours"},{"startTime":2487.68,"endTime":2496.16,"body":"Black churches are are evangelical. They are they don't count in these they are sometimes counted with evangelical. They usually aren't"},{"startTime":2497.28,"endTime":2503.76,"body":"That's why because evangelical is taken on this whole another connotation. Yes white nationalism"},{"startTime":2503.76,"endTime":2505.52,"body":"They don't fit with that"},{"startTime":2505.52,"endTime":2508.56,"body":"Which is why it's white evangelical"},{"startTime":2509.52,"endTime":2512.96,"body":"White correlates with white nationalism. Okay. Got it"},{"startTime":2513.52,"endTime":2517.36,"body":"Well, obviously I wouldn't count a black church as being a white evangelical, right"},{"startTime":2518.08,"endTime":2521.44,"body":"But I'm surprised that you when you mentioned that that's there was those"},{"startTime":2522.0,"endTime":2526.24,"body":"Splits that was like the black churches like well, what about them?"},{"startTime":2527.04,"endTime":2529.68,"body":"the black churches don't neatly fit into"},{"startTime":2530.72,"endTime":2534.88,"body":"Do their own thing we fit into the cabin if they do share a lot of the same"},{"startTime":2535.76,"endTime":2536.96,"body":"Okay"},{"startTime":2536.96,"endTime":2540.64,"body":"All right, that's it for this week if you want to contact us you can use the feedback form"},{"startTime":2542.0,"endTime":2551.44,"body":"At h2tw.com slash contact use the speak pipe link in the show notes or call us at 208-996-8667"},{"startTime":2551.84,"endTime":2553.84,"body":"You can also find that in the show notes"},{"startTime":2554.16,"endTime":2558.64,"body":"You can support us on patreon or just wants a PayPal credit debit apple pay google pay"},{"startTime":2559.36,"endTime":2562.08,"body":"And find the links at h2tw.com slash donate"},{"startTime":2562.08,"endTime":2568.16,"body":"And until next time remember not all those who wander are lost"}]}