{"version":"1.0.0","segments":[{"startTime":0.0,"endTime":3.48,"body":"- Humanists Take on the World episode 36"},{"startTime":3.48,"endTime":4.92,"body":"- Secular parenting."},{"startTime":4.92,"endTime":7.5,"body":"(upbeat music)"},{"startTime":7.5,"endTime":12.0,"body":"- Welcome to that episode of Humanists Take on the World?"},{"startTime":12.0,"endTime":14.08,"body":"I am Dustin and joining me is Lauren."},{"startTime":14.08,"endTime":15.4,"body":"- Hello."},{"startTime":15.4,"endTime":20.4,"body":"- It is amazing how two whole months got biased."},{"startTime":20.4,"endTime":23.12,"body":"- Well, to be fair, it's the beginning of summer"},{"startTime":23.12,"endTime":26.32,"body":"and it's been crazy."},{"startTime":26.32,"endTime":27.96,"body":"- Yeah."},{"startTime":27.96,"endTime":29.88,"body":"- It's always crazy, summer."},{"startTime":29.88,"endTime":30.72,"body":"- Yeah."},{"startTime":30.72,"endTime":32.92,"body":"- Everybody's been enjoying their summer or winter,"},{"startTime":32.92,"endTime":34.56,"body":"depending on where you are."},{"startTime":34.56,"endTime":36.76,"body":"- Because we do have listeners in the,"},{"startTime":36.76,"endTime":38.72,"body":"well, at least I think we still have some listeners"},{"startTime":38.72,"endTime":41.36,"body":"in the Southern half of the world."},{"startTime":41.36,"endTime":43.96,"body":"- Yay, hemisphere's."},{"startTime":43.96,"endTime":47.92,"body":"- I know at one point, per capita,"},{"startTime":47.92,"endTime":51.56,"body":"most, that we were most popular in New Zealand."},{"startTime":51.56,"endTime":53.08,"body":"- No."},{"startTime":53.08,"endTime":54.56,"body":"That's right, we wanted to go visit."},{"startTime":54.56,"endTime":56.08,"body":"- That was a long, long time ago though."},{"startTime":56.08,"endTime":57.88,"body":"So. - A long, long time ago."},{"startTime":57.88,"endTime":59.28,"body":"- I don't know what that would look like now,"},{"startTime":59.28,"endTime":64.28,"body":"but yeah, so parenting from a secular perspective."},{"startTime":64.28,"endTime":70.76,"body":"I heard about it on podcasts mostly in the past"},{"startTime":70.76,"endTime":78.24,"body":"with the main idea being your kids will figure it out,"},{"startTime":78.24,"endTime":85.64,"body":"expose them to a lot of ideas"},{"startTime":85.64,"endTime":88.36,"body":"and let them come to their own conclusions."},{"startTime":88.36,"endTime":91.12,"body":"- And try to model good behavior as best as you can."},{"startTime":91.12,"endTime":93.72,"body":"- Yeah, and teach them critical thinking,"},{"startTime":93.72,"endTime":96.0,"body":"but don't indoctrinate your children."},{"startTime":96.0,"endTime":100.36,"body":"- We, wonderful ideology."},{"startTime":100.36,"endTime":101.96,"body":"- It is."},{"startTime":101.96,"endTime":103.36,"body":"- That's what we were gonna do."},{"startTime":103.36,"endTime":105.0,"body":"- That's what we were gonna do?"},{"startTime":105.0,"endTime":108.68,"body":"- That's what we've basically been trying to do"},{"startTime":108.68,"endTime":113.68,"body":"until it came to a head about a month ago."},{"startTime":113.68,"endTime":114.52,"body":"(laughs)"},{"startTime":114.52,"endTime":116.56,"body":"- Yeah, I wouldn't say it came to a head."},{"startTime":116.56,"endTime":120.8,"body":"It was just delightful conversation that we had to have"},{"startTime":120.8,"endTime":125.6,"body":"because certain imagery does not flow"},{"startTime":125.6,"endTime":127.24,"body":"with our point of view in life."},{"startTime":127.24,"endTime":130.96,"body":"It's like, yeah, about the angels in heaven."},{"startTime":130.96,"endTime":132.72,"body":"Or we need to talk about that."},{"startTime":132.72,"endTime":134.32,"body":"So. (laughs)"},{"startTime":134.32,"endTime":137.96,"body":"- In particular, it was Kylie talking about"},{"startTime":137.96,"endTime":142.96,"body":"our late Chihuahua Rocco being in the clouds."},{"startTime":143.96,"endTime":146.8,"body":"- Yes. - Looking down on us from the clouds."},{"startTime":146.8,"endTime":150.56,"body":"And then I'm driving and be like, wait, what?"},{"startTime":150.56,"endTime":153.52,"body":"Okay, okay, yeah, you've seen the loony tunes,"},{"startTime":153.52,"endTime":155.4,"body":"cartoons where we go up to heaven"},{"startTime":155.4,"endTime":157.16,"body":"or something, we got little harps,"},{"startTime":157.16,"endTime":158.48,"body":"angel wings, that kind of thing."},{"startTime":158.48,"endTime":161.08,"body":"So it's not like imagery that she's completely unfamiliar with."},{"startTime":161.08,"endTime":165.64,"body":"She's, and I'm sure kids at school talked about it."},{"startTime":165.64,"endTime":170.64,"body":"Their school, their class went through a shockingly horrific"},{"startTime":172.08,"endTime":175.4,"body":"passing of one of their classmates this spring."},{"startTime":175.4,"endTime":178.52,"body":"So other points of view of what happens"},{"startTime":178.52,"endTime":181.4,"body":"when someone dies was discussed."},{"startTime":181.4,"endTime":184.72,"body":"- Yeah. - Not by the school,"},{"startTime":184.72,"endTime":187.04,"body":"but kids in the class."},{"startTime":187.04,"endTime":188.4,"body":"- Certain kids in the class."},{"startTime":188.4,"endTime":190.84,"body":"We heard stuff at the funeral that we explained"},{"startTime":190.84,"endTime":192.44,"body":"or that's what people believe."},{"startTime":192.44,"endTime":194.56,"body":"So, you know, no real surprise there."},{"startTime":194.56,"endTime":196.92,"body":"And she did what most people do."},{"startTime":196.92,"endTime":199.16,"body":"And why many people stay with religion"},{"startTime":199.16,"endTime":202.24,"body":"is they, she found an image that was particularly comforting."},{"startTime":202.24,"endTime":204.84,"body":"And that is that once somebody dies,"},{"startTime":204.84,"endTime":207.88,"body":"they look after you for, you know, from above"},{"startTime":207.88,"endTime":211.56,"body":"or I'm like, well, as I'm driving,"},{"startTime":211.56,"endTime":214.84,"body":"try not to, you know, get too flustered."},{"startTime":214.84,"endTime":217.24,"body":"Like, oh, you know, Rocco's in the ground."},{"startTime":217.24,"endTime":220.44,"body":"She's like, I know, but I think he's up in the clouds."},{"startTime":220.44,"endTime":225.2,"body":"I'm like, yeah, some people believe that."},{"startTime":225.2,"endTime":230.2,"body":"I'm like, try not to be like to, I don't know,"},{"startTime":230.2,"endTime":232.36,"body":"forward with my own opinions on it."},{"startTime":232.36,"endTime":234.84,"body":"So I got home and discussed it with Dustin."},{"startTime":234.84,"endTime":236.36,"body":"And we were like, well, yeah, that's, you know,"},{"startTime":236.36,"endTime":240.12,"body":"we got to let her discover her own beliefs."},{"startTime":240.12,"endTime":241.28,"body":"And then there was this pause"},{"startTime":241.28,"endTime":244.12,"body":"and we looked at each other and we're like, nah."},{"startTime":244.12,"endTime":247.04,"body":"(laughing)"},{"startTime":247.04,"endTime":250.32,"body":"- So I was able to watch cartoons like that as a kid."},{"startTime":250.32,"endTime":254.32,"body":"And not conclude that the family dog"},{"startTime":254.32,"endTime":258.32,"body":"that got ran over by a car when I was three popcorn"},{"startTime":258.32,"endTime":262.32,"body":"was in the clouds looking down on me"},{"startTime":262.32,"endTime":265.44,"body":"because I was being raised in the Adventist church,"},{"startTime":265.44,"endTime":268.44,"body":"which believes that the dead are dead."},{"startTime":268.44,"endTime":270.68,"body":"There's no immaterial soul."},{"startTime":270.68,"endTime":273.84,"body":"And until the resurrection, people are dead"},{"startTime":273.84,"endTime":277.2,"body":"and humans can't become angels."},{"startTime":277.2,"endTime":278.12,"body":"- Yeah."},{"startTime":278.12,"endTime":278.96,"body":"- So."},{"startTime":278.96,"endTime":280.84,"body":"- Rather secular view until you add through"},{"startTime":280.84,"endTime":282.64,"body":"throwing that resurrection part."},{"startTime":282.64,"endTime":285.2,"body":"- So I was like, okay, that makes sense to you."},{"startTime":285.2,"endTime":288.84,"body":"- I'd been getting taught that consistently."},{"startTime":288.84,"endTime":293.84,"body":"So I knew what I believed or what I'd been taught"},{"startTime":293.84,"endTime":298.28,"body":"and I was able to evaluate things"},{"startTime":298.28,"endTime":302.16,"body":"like Looney Tunes car tunes as, aha, that's funny."},{"startTime":302.16,"endTime":304.12,"body":"Not how it works."},{"startTime":304.12,"endTime":307.0,"body":"Just like how almost everything in Looney Tunes is, aha,"},{"startTime":307.0,"endTime":308.92,"body":"that's funny, that's not how it works."},{"startTime":308.92,"endTime":310.32,"body":"- Exactly, well, I would just want to look"},{"startTime":310.32,"endTime":313.92,"body":"where I lead coyote and physics, okay, that's funny."},{"startTime":313.92,"endTime":315.8,"body":"- Yeah."},{"startTime":315.8,"endTime":317.56,"body":"- Bo, she kept doubling down on it."},{"startTime":317.56,"endTime":320.76,"body":"So no, no, I think Rocco's in the sky, okay."},{"startTime":320.76,"endTime":324.32,"body":"So we had the discussion with Dustin like, well,"},{"startTime":324.32,"endTime":326.56,"body":"we haven't been able to take her"},{"startTime":326.56,"endTime":329.76,"body":"to any of the other religious institutions in town."},{"startTime":329.76,"endTime":332.48,"body":"Like I had this jury, I grew up at Booth,"},{"startTime":332.48,"endTime":334.8,"body":"Boise Unitarian Universalist Fellowship"},{"startTime":334.8,"endTime":337.88,"body":"and they did a rotation of teaching about different religions"},{"startTime":337.88,"endTime":341.24,"body":"and classes for like Quonquot Sunday School"},{"startTime":341.24,"endTime":344.52,"body":"that taught us Buddhism was Hinduism."},{"startTime":344.52,"endTime":346.6,"body":"They even had people from different churches come"},{"startTime":346.6,"endTime":350.2,"body":"and visit temples and provide services"},{"startTime":350.2,"endTime":353.08,"body":"that were more in line with their beliefs"},{"startTime":353.08,"endTime":354.92,"body":"so that we were exposed to that."},{"startTime":354.92,"endTime":357.44,"body":"Do I remember any of that?"},{"startTime":357.44,"endTime":361.56,"body":"No, I just know that I was exposed to that stuff"},{"startTime":361.56,"endTime":363.92,"body":"growing up from a very young age."},{"startTime":363.92,"endTime":366.96,"body":"I went to UU every Sunday, most Sundays"},{"startTime":366.96,"endTime":369.48,"body":"from as far as back as I can remember"},{"startTime":369.48,"endTime":373.88,"body":"up until basically I was 13 or 14 years old."},{"startTime":373.88,"endTime":377.6,"body":"So I had a lot of, you know, education there."},{"startTime":377.6,"endTime":380.8,"body":"Kylie hadn't had any of that."},{"startTime":380.8,"endTime":385.32,"body":"We had to do a very quick 30 second cliff notes"},{"startTime":385.32,"endTime":388.28,"body":"of what religion was walking into a funeral."},{"startTime":388.28,"endTime":389.12,"body":"- Yep."},{"startTime":389.12,"endTime":390.6,"body":"- What does a church, why is it look like this"},{"startTime":390.6,"endTime":392.6,"body":"and who is that and what's going on?"},{"startTime":392.6,"endTime":395.92,"body":"- And throughout the funeral having to explain"},{"startTime":396.88,"endTime":401.88,"body":"things very much in the context,"},{"startTime":401.88,"endTime":404.84,"body":"trying to be respectful for anybody"},{"startTime":404.84,"endTime":407.52,"body":"who might be overhearing, (laughs)"},{"startTime":407.52,"endTime":410.28,"body":"being very matter of fact explanatory."},{"startTime":410.28,"endTime":411.12,"body":"- Yeah."},{"startTime":411.12,"endTime":413.68,"body":"- And just like I've generally done"},{"startTime":413.68,"endTime":415.52,"body":"when talking about various religious groups"},{"startTime":415.52,"endTime":419.96,"body":"on the podcast, when I get into explanatory mode,"},{"startTime":419.96,"endTime":423.92,"body":"I get into matter of fact explanation"},{"startTime":423.92,"endTime":426.68,"body":"of what those beliefs are."},{"startTime":426.68,"endTime":427.76,"body":"- And there's enough people out there"},{"startTime":427.76,"endTime":429.16,"body":"who don't take their kids to church"},{"startTime":429.16,"endTime":430.68,"body":"that that would not have been surprising"},{"startTime":430.68,"endTime":432.08,"body":"to just about anybody."},{"startTime":432.08,"endTime":433.32,"body":"Oh, that's cute."},{"startTime":433.32,"endTime":434.92,"body":"Kids, person I'm in a church."},{"startTime":434.92,"endTime":437.12,"body":"Oh, this is so sad."},{"startTime":437.12,"endTime":439.44,"body":"What a terrible reason to have to go to church."},{"startTime":439.44,"endTime":444.44,"body":"I was like, okay, but we've done our best"},{"startTime":444.44,"endTime":446.48,"body":"with the growing, you know, these ideologies"},{"startTime":446.48,"endTime":449.88,"body":"of when you're early parent or even pre-parent,"},{"startTime":449.88,"endTime":452.32,"body":"trying to imagine how are you gonna raise your kid?"},{"startTime":452.32,"endTime":454.28,"body":"You can expose them to all these religions,"},{"startTime":454.28,"endTime":457.48,"body":"they'll come to their own ideas,"},{"startTime":457.48,"endTime":460.24,"body":"maybe experiment a little bit when they're older,"},{"startTime":460.24,"endTime":461.88,"body":"maybe piss you right off,"},{"startTime":461.88,"endTime":464.68,"body":"but you know they'll come right background,"},{"startTime":464.68,"endTime":467.04,"body":"just like every Christian parent believes,"},{"startTime":467.04,"endTime":468.92,"body":"and everything will be hunky-dory."},{"startTime":468.92,"endTime":474.48,"body":"But she's, we didn't take into the account"},{"startTime":474.48,"endTime":479.64,"body":"how other kids at school are gonna talk and make her feel"},{"startTime":479.64,"endTime":481.48,"body":"about certain things."},{"startTime":481.48,"endTime":484.76,"body":"So, and since we have not done any of those,"},{"startTime":484.76,"endTime":488.0,"body":"well, we've done quite a bit of education on other religions,"},{"startTime":488.0,"endTime":489.84,"body":"but not quite like I had imagined."},{"startTime":489.84,"endTime":494.12,"body":"So I felt we were very under-prepared"},{"startTime":494.12,"endTime":498.2,"body":"for dealing with this very traumatizing event"},{"startTime":498.2,"endTime":500.68,"body":"that was thrown into our lives"},{"startTime":500.68,"endTime":504.28,"body":"and how she could react to that."},{"startTime":504.28,"endTime":507.6,"body":"Well, and that was a big event in her class"},{"startTime":507.6,"endTime":511.24,"body":"right before the end of the school year."},{"startTime":511.24,"endTime":512.84,"body":"It was right before her birthdays."},{"startTime":512.84,"endTime":513.68,"body":"Oh yeah, yeah."},{"startTime":513.68,"endTime":516.52,"body":"That funeral was the same weekend as her birthdays,"},{"startTime":516.52,"endTime":519.28,"body":"so it was right after we did the last episode."},{"startTime":519.28,"endTime":520.12,"body":"Yeah."},{"startTime":520.12,"endTime":521.64,"body":"And..."},{"startTime":521.64,"endTime":523.6,"body":"We weren't even gonna go."},{"startTime":523.6,"endTime":524.96,"body":"I was not comfortable going."},{"startTime":524.96,"endTime":526.6,"body":"Yeah, so she had that."},{"startTime":526.6,"endTime":528.76,"body":"Yes, to go, and I thought that was respectful"},{"startTime":528.76,"endTime":529.8,"body":"and I could do that."},{"startTime":529.8,"endTime":534.76,"body":"And that was about three to half months after Rocco died."},{"startTime":534.76,"endTime":538.28,"body":"Which was about three months after"},{"startTime":538.28,"endTime":541.88,"body":"the life celebration for her grandmother,"},{"startTime":541.88,"endTime":544.64,"body":"which was about three or four months after her passing."},{"startTime":544.64,"endTime":548.92,"body":"So it's not like Kylie is not familiar."},{"startTime":548.92,"endTime":550.4,"body":"If all the kids in her class,"},{"startTime":550.4,"endTime":553.52,"body":"she was probably the most familiar."},{"startTime":553.52,"endTime":555.44,"body":"Yeah, with this concept."},{"startTime":555.44,"endTime":558.44,"body":"Other kids have definitely had parents"},{"startTime":558.44,"endTime":561.88,"body":"and grandparents pass away, of course, not parents, sorry."},{"startTime":561.88,"endTime":565.44,"body":"Grandparents and other family members, et cetera, pass away."},{"startTime":565.44,"endTime":568.84,"body":"But I felt like Kylie definitely had a firm grasp on it."},{"startTime":568.84,"endTime":571.08,"body":"Well, and Kylie had a firm grasp"},{"startTime":571.08,"endTime":575.56,"body":"that her grandma was going to die for about 20 months"},{"startTime":575.56,"endTime":576.64,"body":"before she did."},{"startTime":576.64,"endTime":577.48,"body":"Yeah."},{"startTime":577.48,"endTime":581.92,"body":"So nearly half of her life at this point,"},{"startTime":581.92,"endTime":586.44,"body":"she's been familiar with in processing the concept of death."},{"startTime":586.44,"endTime":591.44,"body":"And we let popular culture and her classmates"},{"startTime":593.6,"endTime":596.04,"body":"teach her what that means."},{"startTime":596.04,"endTime":600.0,"body":"Not, I mean, I'm going to give us some more credit than that."},{"startTime":600.0,"endTime":606.28,"body":"She's latching on to a comforting idea."},{"startTime":606.28,"endTime":610.2,"body":"I wouldn't say is what it isn't, you know,"},{"startTime":610.2,"endTime":611.72,"body":"what taught her about it."},{"startTime":611.72,"endTime":614.44,"body":"We talked about it a lot."},{"startTime":614.44,"endTime":616.24,"body":"We discussed it a ton."},{"startTime":616.24,"endTime":620.04,"body":"We kind of, but when you're talking about death being,"},{"startTime":620.04,"endTime":621.92,"body":"you know, as a thing that is final,"},{"startTime":622.8,"endTime":626.12,"body":"the way we talked about it was just that she was going to die"},{"startTime":626.12,"endTime":629.16,"body":"and that that was, and then that she did die."},{"startTime":629.16,"endTime":631.76,"body":"And then that's to her ashes were in the urn."},{"startTime":631.76,"endTime":632.76,"body":"Her ashes, yes."},{"startTime":632.76,"endTime":634.6,"body":"It would be eventually in the ground."},{"startTime":634.6,"endTime":636.32,"body":"And that was what it kept coming back to"},{"startTime":636.32,"endTime":640.84,"body":"is that the Rocco was cremated and put in the ground."},{"startTime":640.84,"endTime":646.44,"body":"And I don't know, the comforting mythos to go on that one"},{"startTime":646.44,"endTime":651.52,"body":"to, you know, help little kids or whoever grieve"},{"startTime":651.52,"endTime":655.0,"body":"is they go into the ground and become part of the soil"},{"startTime":655.0,"endTime":658.92,"body":"which nurtures new plants, which then propagate more new life."},{"startTime":658.92,"endTime":660.2,"body":"It's like, there you go."},{"startTime":660.2,"endTime":664.16,"body":"The cycle of life continues when we, you know,"},{"startTime":664.16,"endTime":665.8,"body":"bury our dead in the ground."},{"startTime":665.8,"endTime":668.56,"body":"But we didn't specifically address that, you know,"},{"startTime":668.56,"endTime":672.04,"body":"there is no separate soul because we didn't think"},{"startTime":672.04,"endTime":674.8,"body":"that was a thing we needed to address."},{"startTime":674.8,"endTime":678.32,"body":"And loony tunes and other cartoons have done a really good job"},{"startTime":678.32,"endTime":683.16,"body":"of presenting that concept to her of an immaterial soul"},{"startTime":683.16,"endTime":684.4,"body":"that lives on when you die."},{"startTime":684.4,"endTime":685.52,"body":"- Yeah."},{"startTime":685.52,"endTime":690.44,"body":"And for, and good, she needs to be familiar with that"},{"startTime":690.44,"endTime":694.56,"body":"because then she's not, some kids aren't telling her at school"},{"startTime":694.56,"endTime":697.08,"body":"about how they think little, you know,"},{"startTime":697.08,"endTime":699.04,"body":"her little classmates in heaven."},{"startTime":699.04,"endTime":701.84,"body":"And she's like, \"Woo, what's that?\""},{"startTime":701.84,"endTime":703.8,"body":"Now, okay, she gets it."},{"startTime":703.8,"endTime":704.96,"body":"And that's good."},{"startTime":704.96,"endTime":708.52,"body":"She knew enough to get it."},{"startTime":708.52,"endTime":713.52,"body":"And yeah, it's, and with her class,"},{"startTime":713.52,"endTime":717.24,"body":"there was a fair degree of diversity."},{"startTime":717.24,"endTime":722.44,"body":"There was at least one Hindu and one Muslim kid in the class"},{"startTime":722.44,"endTime":725.72,"body":"or more accurately, one kid from a Muslim family"},{"startTime":725.72,"endTime":727.84,"body":"and one kid from a Hindu family."},{"startTime":727.84,"endTime":732.12,"body":"And several kids from various Christian"},{"startTime":732.12,"endTime":736.92,"body":"nomination families, but there were a few"},{"startTime":736.92,"endTime":741.92,"body":"who were quite vocal that the classmate was in heaven."},{"startTime":741.92,"endTime":746.56,"body":"- Yeah, because they had had discussions"},{"startTime":746.56,"endTime":748.84,"body":"with their parents and they were all dealing"},{"startTime":748.84,"endTime":752.08,"body":"with this same thing together and that makes sense."},{"startTime":752.08,"endTime":755.56,"body":"Which, like I said, is actually really good"},{"startTime":755.56,"endTime":757.08,"body":"'cause she needs that exposure."},{"startTime":757.08,"endTime":759.2,"body":"She's not at the point now where she's gonna have to defend"},{"startTime":759.2,"endTime":760.56,"body":"her own beliefs."},{"startTime":760.56,"endTime":761.4,"body":"- Right."},{"startTime":761.4,"endTime":764.24,"body":"We settle in for another, I got, I cross your fingers"},{"startTime":764.24,"endTime":767.26,"body":"another year or two, but we'll see."},{"startTime":767.26,"endTime":771.24,"body":"I remember getting hit with that one at least by second grade,"},{"startTime":771.24,"endTime":773.32,"body":"but we'll see."},{"startTime":773.32,"endTime":777.04,"body":"It's just funny because we've done a podcast"},{"startTime":777.04,"endTime":779.04,"body":"about atheism for years."},{"startTime":779.04,"endTime":784.2,"body":"We, I'm, you know, we're pretty firm in our belief systems"},{"startTime":784.2,"endTime":786.8,"body":"and knew what we were gonna do as parents."},{"startTime":786.8,"endTime":789.72,"body":"And then it's just kind of really easy to let these things"},{"startTime":789.72,"endTime":794.72,"body":"slip by and then lo and behold something happens"},{"startTime":794.72,"endTime":798.48,"body":"and you're like, oh, I am not propped for this at all."},{"startTime":798.48,"endTime":799.4,"body":"Dang."},{"startTime":799.4,"endTime":800.24,"body":"- Yeah."},{"startTime":800.24,"endTime":802.8,"body":"- Or maybe we were and we're just not giving ourselves"},{"startTime":802.8,"endTime":804.92,"body":"enough credit as parents tend to do."},{"startTime":804.92,"endTime":807.84,"body":"- Well, we were definitely prepared for it."},{"startTime":807.84,"endTime":811.28,"body":"We just hadn't really addressed it head on."},{"startTime":811.28,"endTime":816.32,"body":"It's, when it comes to topics around religion,"},{"startTime":816.32,"endTime":820.56,"body":"it, in age appropriate ways,"},{"startTime":820.56,"endTime":826.4,"body":"it is simpler to talk about positive beliefs"},{"startTime":826.4,"endTime":831.12,"body":"than negative beliefs, especially, you know,"},{"startTime":831.12,"endTime":835.0,"body":"when she was three or four and her brain"},{"startTime":835.0,"endTime":837.0,"body":"was in fantasy world most of the time."},{"startTime":837.0,"endTime":838.32,"body":"- Yeah."},{"startTime":838.32,"endTime":842.44,"body":"- The concept of real versus not real didn't exist."},{"startTime":844.36,"endTime":848.64,"body":"That's getting a lot, that's, that is there now, for sure."},{"startTime":848.64,"endTime":852.92,"body":"But that is, it is harder to talk about."},{"startTime":852.92,"endTime":856.4,"body":"It's, it turns out it's actually not that hard."},{"startTime":856.4,"endTime":857.4,"body":"You just need to do it."},{"startTime":857.4,"endTime":858.48,"body":"You just have to do it."},{"startTime":858.48,"endTime":864.24,"body":"And like Michael with it, I, I want Kylie to be a,"},{"startTime":864.24,"endTime":871.0,"body":"to not be converted into any religion,"},{"startTime":871.88,"endTime":874.68,"body":"she'd be able to defend herself in discussions"},{"startTime":874.68,"endTime":879.16,"body":"with religious people that she encounters throughout her life,"},{"startTime":879.16,"endTime":882.36,"body":"and to be respectful of people's beliefs."},{"startTime":882.36,"endTime":884.52,"body":"You didn't know about them to be respectful of them,"},{"startTime":884.52,"endTime":885.44,"body":"to a certain extent."},{"startTime":885.44,"endTime":890.44,"body":"- Yeah, and yeah, and we do quite a bit of learning"},{"startTime":890.44,"endTime":893.12,"body":"about other holidays and all sorts of stuff."},{"startTime":893.12,"endTime":895.32,"body":"Like that, that's a really, you know,"},{"startTime":895.32,"endTime":897.24,"body":"mythology, you start with the easy one,"},{"startTime":897.24,"endTime":900.12,"body":"Greek mythology, stuff that's not really around anymore,"},{"startTime":900.12,"endTime":903.44,"body":"and you know, tied in with modern stuff."},{"startTime":903.44,"endTime":907.96,"body":"So, you know, I think we've done a good job of that."},{"startTime":907.96,"endTime":913.88,"body":"It's only, but we'll, we'll see, we'll see how it goes."},{"startTime":913.88,"endTime":915.92,"body":"You say not can, you know, you don't want her to ever"},{"startTime":915.92,"endTime":918.6,"body":"be converted into a religion."},{"startTime":918.6,"endTime":921.28,"body":"There are many people who come home say,"},{"startTime":921.28,"endTime":924.0,"body":"oh, guess what, I'm a, I'm a so and so now."},{"startTime":924.0,"endTime":926.0,"body":"And you did, one look at them and you're like,"},{"startTime":926.0,"endTime":928.04,"body":"all right, what's the boy's name?"},{"startTime":929.32,"endTime":930.88,"body":"Or what's the girl's name?"},{"startTime":930.88,"endTime":932.64,"body":"'Cause it's like nine times out at 10."},{"startTime":932.64,"endTime":934.68,"body":"It's good because they want to go to church with somebody."},{"startTime":934.68,"endTime":936.56,"body":"- My niece did that. - Yep."},{"startTime":936.56,"endTime":941.32,"body":"- She went to a Baptist church for a year with a boyfriend."},{"startTime":941.32,"endTime":943.04,"body":"They broke up. - Yep."},{"startTime":943.04,"endTime":944.4,"body":"- She went back to being an atheist."},{"startTime":944.4,"endTime":946.2,"body":"- It's just, yeah."},{"startTime":946.2,"endTime":948.44,"body":"And that's totally to be expected."},{"startTime":948.44,"endTime":951.76,"body":"I do not know how well we will handle that when it happens,"},{"startTime":951.76,"endTime":954.0,"body":"but, oh boy."},{"startTime":954.0,"endTime":955.56,"body":"We'll get there."},{"startTime":955.56,"endTime":960.5,"body":"(laughing)"},{"startTime":960.5,"endTime":965.5,"body":"Like it was funny, man, it was probably about a year ago."},{"startTime":965.5,"endTime":968.4,"body":"I was in the living room."},{"startTime":968.4,"endTime":971.4,"body":"I had already done my part of the bedtime routine with Kylie."},{"startTime":971.4,"endTime":973.68,"body":"Lauren was in there with Kylie."},{"startTime":973.68,"endTime":977.16,"body":"And I'm overhearing Kylie getting very passionate"},{"startTime":977.16,"endTime":981.4,"body":"about the goddess and how she couldn't talk to anybody"},{"startTime":981.4,"endTime":983.68,"body":"who didn't believe, or if somebody told her"},{"startTime":983.68,"endTime":984.84,"body":"they didn't believe in the goddess,"},{"startTime":984.84,"endTime":987.02,"body":"she just wouldn't, she'd stop talking to them."},{"startTime":987.02,"endTime":989.98,"body":"(laughing)"},{"startTime":989.98,"endTime":991.8,"body":"- Yeah. - So adamant."},{"startTime":991.8,"endTime":994.8,"body":"- Yes, little mother earth figure."},{"startTime":994.8,"endTime":998.72,"body":"And it was like, okay, that's understandable."},{"startTime":998.72,"endTime":1002.04,"body":"From a six-year-old point of view, makes total sense."},{"startTime":1002.04,"endTime":1003.6,"body":"We kind of have come to that conclusion"},{"startTime":1003.6,"endTime":1005.88,"body":"about believing in a sun god, or goddess."},{"startTime":1005.88,"endTime":1007.74,"body":"It's like that makes sense."},{"startTime":1007.74,"endTime":1010.32,"body":"Just wait until you hear about all the other stuff"},{"startTime":1010.32,"endTime":1011.16,"body":"that's going on."},{"startTime":1011.16,"endTime":1014.2,"body":"Now you're gonna be like, but when I made up at when I was five,"},{"startTime":1014.2,"endTime":1018.12,"body":"I made more sense, but yeah, okay, that's true."},{"startTime":1018.12,"endTime":1020.2,"body":"You haven't had hundreds of thousands of years"},{"startTime":1020.2,"endTime":1022.52,"body":"to develop dogma."},{"startTime":1022.52,"endTime":1025.08,"body":"- Yep. - That's where it starts to get murky."},{"startTime":1025.08,"endTime":1027.92,"body":"And trying to figure out, wait, what am I supposed"},{"startTime":1027.92,"endTime":1031.2,"body":"to do now, depending on what church you are visiting?"},{"startTime":1031.2,"endTime":1036.36,"body":"I am not ready to expose Kylie to all that quite yet."},{"startTime":1036.36,"endTime":1037.72,"body":"It's one thing to sneak in the back"},{"startTime":1037.72,"endTime":1039.56,"body":"and sit in the back and observe a service,"},{"startTime":1039.56,"endTime":1042.32,"body":"but I'm not expecting her to know what to do"},{"startTime":1042.32,"endTime":1046.36,"body":"if she ever goes to a Catholic service or a Baptist service"},{"startTime":1046.36,"endTime":1051.44,"body":"or a wedding at a Protestant church versus a Muslim church"},{"startTime":1051.44,"endTime":1054.04,"body":"versus, I mean, who knows?"},{"startTime":1054.04,"endTime":1056.52,"body":"- Muslims have mosques."},{"startTime":1056.52,"endTime":1059.24,"body":"- Mosques, they have services at the mosque."},{"startTime":1059.24,"endTime":1061.12,"body":"- Yes. - So, there you go."},{"startTime":1061.12,"endTime":1061.98,"body":"- But they're not churches."},{"startTime":1061.98,"endTime":1065.04,"body":"- No, I meant to say services."},{"startTime":1065.04,"endTime":1068.72,"body":"But yeah, the secular parenting has a lot of ideals,"},{"startTime":1068.72,"endTime":1072.76,"body":"I think, and not a whole lot of real world application."},{"startTime":1072.76,"endTime":1076.88,"body":"I love the idea of taking Kylie to all these different places"},{"startTime":1076.88,"endTime":1078.72,"body":"and teaching her about all these different cultures"},{"startTime":1078.72,"endTime":1083.0,"body":"and how they can positively interact with respect"},{"startTime":1083.0,"endTime":1087.36,"body":"and love knowing that in a couple of years here,"},{"startTime":1087.36,"endTime":1090.8,"body":"we're gonna have to teach her about the negatives"},{"startTime":1090.8,"endTime":1093.68,"body":"and how to defend herself against that."},{"startTime":1093.68,"endTime":1094.96,"body":"I say a couple of years."},{"startTime":1094.96,"endTime":1097.04,"body":"It's gonna be a lot sooner than that."},{"startTime":1097.04,"endTime":1097.88,"body":"It just is."},{"startTime":1098.88,"endTime":1103.0,"body":"'Cause I remember having to deal with that"},{"startTime":1103.0,"endTime":1104.32,"body":"in first second grade."},{"startTime":1104.32,"endTime":1105.92,"body":"The first kid that tells you you're going to hell"},{"startTime":1105.92,"endTime":1108.72,"body":"and I can't be your friend is heartbreaking."},{"startTime":1108.72,"endTime":1110.64,"body":"Kylie's sweet."},{"startTime":1110.64,"endTime":1115.64,"body":"She'll bounce back, but how is the question?"},{"startTime":1115.64,"endTime":1119.2,"body":"Never mind questions about where does life begin."},{"startTime":1119.2,"endTime":1122.44,"body":"Who's the first person?"},{"startTime":1122.44,"endTime":1124.64,"body":"That was a recent one."},{"startTime":1124.64,"endTime":1125.64,"body":"It's like, who boy?"},{"startTime":1125.64,"endTime":1127.72,"body":"Well, what do you mean by person?"},{"startTime":1128.6,"endTime":1131.16,"body":"And that was started the whole..."},{"startTime":1131.16,"endTime":1134.68,"body":"I believe we start with Australopithecus, see?"},{"startTime":1134.68,"endTime":1138.76,"body":"I started with Adam, the idea of Adam, the idea of..."},{"startTime":1138.76,"endTime":1143.76,"body":"I started with asking her what she thought a person was."},{"startTime":1143.76,"endTime":1145.28,"body":"Exactly."},{"startTime":1145.28,"endTime":1148.44,"body":"And then tearing it apart."},{"startTime":1148.44,"endTime":1153.44,"body":"I heard, and I work for a particular organization"},{"startTime":1155.0,"endTime":1157.84,"body":"that has reflections at the starts of lots of meetings"},{"startTime":1157.84,"endTime":1160.8,"body":"and sometimes those are religious and often they aren't."},{"startTime":1160.8,"endTime":1165.28,"body":"One of the most recent ones was amazing."},{"startTime":1165.28,"endTime":1170.28,"body":"And it was something to the effect of the first person"},{"startTime":1170.28,"endTime":1176.24,"body":"was the first hominin who helped somebody else"},{"startTime":1176.24,"endTime":1182.92,"body":"on a hunting trip with a broken leg, get back to camp"},{"startTime":1183.4,"endTime":1186.56,"body":"and feed that person until he recovered."},{"startTime":1186.56,"endTime":1191.68,"body":"That at that point, we became people."},{"startTime":1191.68,"endTime":1195.04,"body":"Our ancestors became people."},{"startTime":1195.04,"endTime":1197.32,"body":"And so I told Kylie about that"},{"startTime":1197.32,"endTime":1201.04,"body":"'cause I think that is a really good way of looking at it."},{"startTime":1201.04,"endTime":1202.64,"body":"I hated that answer, by the way."},{"startTime":1202.64,"endTime":1205.48,"body":"And I think she did too."},{"startTime":1205.48,"endTime":1208.68,"body":"That wasn't what she was asking."},{"startTime":1208.68,"endTime":1211.24,"body":"That is a good answer."},{"startTime":1211.24,"endTime":1215.56,"body":"So when did the animal become a part,"},{"startTime":1215.56,"endTime":1218.24,"body":"when did we become self-aware enough?"},{"startTime":1218.24,"endTime":1220.76,"body":"And that kind of thing, that's a different question"},{"startTime":1220.76,"endTime":1222.96,"body":"than what was the first person?"},{"startTime":1222.96,"endTime":1225.64,"body":"It was who was the first person, it was the question."},{"startTime":1225.64,"endTime":1226.48,"body":"Yeah."},{"startTime":1226.48,"endTime":1228.08,"body":"If she'd said what was the first person,"},{"startTime":1228.08,"endTime":1229.28,"body":"then that would have been a different answer."},{"startTime":1229.28,"endTime":1230.6,"body":"You wouldn't have known to ask that."},{"startTime":1230.6,"endTime":1232.6,"body":"She wanted to know who, so..."},{"startTime":1232.6,"endTime":1235.28,"body":"Showing her a line, he showed her a picture"},{"startTime":1235.28,"endTime":1238.4,"body":"of all these reconstructed faces of fossils"},{"startTime":1238.4,"endTime":1240.92,"body":"all the way back from..."},{"startTime":1240.92,"endTime":1243.88,"body":"I don't even know the very first one."},{"startTime":1243.88,"endTime":1245.96,"body":"But there was probably about 10 of them."},{"startTime":1245.96,"endTime":1248.0,"body":"Their faces as they progressively got more"},{"startTime":1248.0,"endTime":1249.96,"body":"and more human looking."},{"startTime":1249.96,"endTime":1253.68,"body":"So she pointed back to like one before"},{"startTime":1253.68,"endTime":1255.44,"body":"and like the neanderthal."},{"startTime":1255.44,"endTime":1256.4,"body":"And it was the nose."},{"startTime":1256.4,"endTime":1257.48,"body":"I think it's the nose."},{"startTime":1257.48,"endTime":1260.12,"body":"I think it was how more reactive she thought looked human."},{"startTime":1260.12,"endTime":1261.6,"body":"And I'm like, there you go."},{"startTime":1261.6,"endTime":1264.52,"body":"You can argue that that was the first person"},{"startTime":1264.52,"endTime":1267.52,"body":"'cause by then there were bipedal, bigger brains"},{"startTime":1267.52,"endTime":1268.76,"body":"were starting to get the..."},{"startTime":1268.76,"endTime":1270.0,"body":"There was some form of medicine."},{"startTime":1270.0,"endTime":1271.36,"body":"Some..."},{"startTime":1271.36,"endTime":1273.56,"body":"Yeah, stuff like that."},{"startTime":1273.56,"endTime":1274.8,"body":"It was like, oh, that makes sense."},{"startTime":1274.8,"endTime":1276.2,"body":"Well, what about this one?"},{"startTime":1276.2,"endTime":1277.64,"body":"And she's like, well, no, I'm like,"},{"startTime":1277.64,"endTime":1278.48,"body":"well, why not?"},{"startTime":1278.48,"endTime":1282.36,"body":"They were bipedal in the big brains for their size."},{"startTime":1282.36,"endTime":1283.72,"body":"So what is the difference?"},{"startTime":1283.72,"endTime":1285.0,"body":"If you're just looking at a picture,"},{"startTime":1285.0,"endTime":1287.0,"body":"that's not the full picture, you know?"},{"startTime":1287.0,"endTime":1290.84,"body":"And then he brought up this humanity idea,"},{"startTime":1290.84,"endTime":1293.96,"body":"this feeling, not only emphasizing,"},{"startTime":1293.96,"endTime":1297.84,"body":"emphasizing, emphasizing, wow, words."},{"startTime":1297.84,"endTime":1301.52,"body":"Not only caring about your fellow people and your tribe,"},{"startTime":1301.52,"endTime":1304.16,"body":"but actually putting in the effort and sacrifices"},{"startTime":1304.16,"endTime":1306.68,"body":"to make sure that they survive during hardship,"},{"startTime":1306.68,"endTime":1310.56,"body":"which is what this podcast is basically all about."},{"startTime":1310.56,"endTime":1314.92,"body":"That is a very good description"},{"startTime":1314.92,"endTime":1319.44,"body":"for the first human in a humanist worldview."},{"startTime":1319.44,"endTime":1323.72,"body":"Whether or not that was a satisfactory answer,"},{"startTime":1323.72,"endTime":1325.16,"body":"I'm still unclear on that."},{"startTime":1325.16,"endTime":1326.84,"body":"She seemed to be pretty much done"},{"startTime":1326.84,"endTime":1328.12,"body":"with the conversation at that point."},{"startTime":1328.12,"endTime":1330.28,"body":"Yeah, and it will come up again."},{"startTime":1330.28,"endTime":1332.6,"body":"It's one that, I know she's absorbing this stuff."},{"startTime":1332.6,"endTime":1333.96,"body":"It's one that will need to come up again"},{"startTime":1333.96,"endTime":1337.68,"body":"because, you know, who's the first of any species?"},{"startTime":1337.68,"endTime":1342.56,"body":"It's so fuzzy."},{"startTime":1342.56,"endTime":1343.56,"body":"Mm-hmm."},{"startTime":1343.56,"endTime":1345.16,"body":"Who is the first homosapian?"},{"startTime":1345.16,"endTime":1347.12,"body":"I have a name for it."},{"startTime":1347.12,"endTime":1348.24,"body":"We do have a name for it."},{"startTime":1348.24,"endTime":1350.92,"body":"We call them atoms or eaves."},{"startTime":1350.92,"endTime":1354.28,"body":"Well, and I did tell Kylie about the mitochondrial eve"},{"startTime":1354.28,"endTime":1355.84,"body":"and the Y chromosome atom."},{"startTime":1355.84,"endTime":1358.88,"body":"She told our six year old about the mitochondrial eve,"},{"startTime":1358.88,"endTime":1361.36,"body":"which most adults don't have a firm concept of."},{"startTime":1361.36,"endTime":1362.84,"body":"And I figure it out."},{"startTime":1362.84,"endTime":1367.84,"body":"I explain to her that that is the person from whom"},{"startTime":1367.84,"endTime":1372.04,"body":"all current living humans,"},{"startTime":1372.04,"endTime":1376.68,"body":"the woman that all living humans are descended from"},{"startTime":1376.68,"endTime":1378.92,"body":"and that there was a Y chromosome atom"},{"startTime":1378.92,"endTime":1382.92,"body":"who all living humans are also descended from"},{"startTime":1383.92,"endTime":1387.92,"body":"and they were many thousands of years apart."},{"startTime":1387.92,"endTime":1390.48,"body":"Yeah, it wasn't the perfect partner there"},{"startTime":1390.48,"endTime":1391.8,"body":"that created all of humanity."},{"startTime":1391.8,"endTime":1394.92,"body":"That would be quite a genetic bottleneck,"},{"startTime":1394.92,"endTime":1397.52,"body":"which we've had several."},{"startTime":1397.52,"endTime":1399.36,"body":"So that would explain a lot."},{"startTime":1399.36,"endTime":1402.8,"body":"But it was just, it was a really interesting question."},{"startTime":1402.8,"endTime":1404.64,"body":"It was very thoughtful."},{"startTime":1404.64,"endTime":1407.48,"body":"And as per usual, I think we,"},{"startTime":1407.48,"endTime":1409.92,"body":"our explanations went way over her head,"},{"startTime":1409.92,"endTime":1412.68,"body":"but she surprises us all the time"},{"startTime":1412.68,"endTime":1414.88,"body":"by coming back and quoting that stuff back at us"},{"startTime":1414.88,"endTime":1417.64,"body":"sometimes months, sometimes years later."},{"startTime":1417.64,"endTime":1418.48,"body":"So."},{"startTime":1418.48,"endTime":1419.64,"body":"Oh, yeah."},{"startTime":1419.64,"endTime":1423.0,"body":"It was probably two or three weeks after,"},{"startTime":1423.0,"endTime":1424.68,"body":"'cause that conversation was about two or three weeks"},{"startTime":1424.68,"endTime":1426.52,"body":"after this other one."},{"startTime":1426.52,"endTime":1428.4,"body":"It was about two or three weeks after"},{"startTime":1428.4,"endTime":1434.16,"body":"when we sat Kylie down and told her our beliefs"},{"startTime":1434.16,"endTime":1436.36,"body":"about gods in the afterlife and whatnot."},{"startTime":1436.36,"endTime":1442.16,"body":"Where she, Lauren was running some errand."},{"startTime":1442.16,"endTime":1447.12,"body":"I worked from home, so I was at my desk working, Kylie,"},{"startTime":1447.12,"endTime":1450.44,"body":"comes up to me and comments how it's kind of amazing"},{"startTime":1450.44,"endTime":1452.36,"body":"that we don't believe in gods,"},{"startTime":1452.36,"endTime":1455.16,"body":"but have a bunch of books about gods."},{"startTime":1455.16,"endTime":1458.56,"body":"Smart girl, very observant."},{"startTime":1458.56,"endTime":1461.04,"body":"She has several on her bookshelf."},{"startTime":1461.04,"endTime":1462.64,"body":"Yeah."},{"startTime":1462.64,"endTime":1465.16,"body":"Some of them are Greek mythology."},{"startTime":1465.16,"endTime":1467.08,"body":"The one in particular she was thinking about,"},{"startTime":1467.08,"endTime":1472.32,"body":"which is literally something about gods"},{"startTime":1472.32,"endTime":1475.12,"body":"written by a previous guest on the podcast."},{"startTime":1475.12,"endTime":1476.28,"body":"Hey."},{"startTime":1476.28,"endTime":1478.84,"body":"We should really get back on."},{"startTime":1478.84,"endTime":1481.44,"body":"So it was, yeah, she knows that one"},{"startTime":1481.44,"endTime":1483.92,"body":"and that's one that talks about different gods"},{"startTime":1483.92,"endTime":1487.8,"body":"and I explained to her that it's important"},{"startTime":1487.8,"endTime":1492.08,"body":"to know about other cultures and talk to her about,"},{"startTime":1492.08,"endTime":1494.96,"body":"you know, some of the cultural differences"},{"startTime":1494.96,"endTime":1497.6,"body":"and, yeah, we just even lunch."},{"startTime":1497.6,"endTime":1502.28,"body":"So how, like, different cultural positions"},{"startTime":1502.28,"endTime":1505.08,"body":"can and religious backgrounds,"},{"startTime":1505.08,"endTime":1508.12,"body":"even if people that were in her kindergarten class"},{"startTime":1508.12,"endTime":1511.76,"body":"can affect things like food and knowing about them,"},{"startTime":1511.76,"endTime":1513.52,"body":"knowing about their beliefs and religion"},{"startTime":1513.52,"endTime":1516.32,"body":"can help you be a better friend."},{"startTime":1516.32,"endTime":1520.28,"body":"You know, knowing not to cook up bacon"},{"startTime":1520.28,"endTime":1523.56,"body":"if your Muslim classmate is coming over."},{"startTime":1524.12,"endTime":1527.72,"body":"Yeah, and that helped simplify the whole discussion."},{"startTime":1527.72,"endTime":1529.16,"body":"Well, you know that there is,"},{"startTime":1529.16,"endTime":1531.0,"body":"you have several classmates with food preferences,"},{"startTime":1531.0,"endTime":1532.32,"body":"you know, what is so-and-so's?"},{"startTime":1532.32,"endTime":1533.76,"body":"What does she, what does she like to eat?"},{"startTime":1533.76,"endTime":1536.0,"body":"Oh, she's, you know, she doesn't eat meat."},{"startTime":1536.0,"endTime":1538.16,"body":"That's right, she's vegetarian."},{"startTime":1538.16,"endTime":1540.76,"body":"She's vegetarian for religious reasons."},{"startTime":1540.76,"endTime":1543.2,"body":"It's not because she's allergic to meat or anything."},{"startTime":1543.2,"endTime":1544.64,"body":"It's because they choose not to"},{"startTime":1544.64,"endTime":1546.96,"body":"and there's a whole cultural background here"},{"startTime":1546.96,"endTime":1548.32,"body":"that helps explain that."},{"startTime":1548.32,"endTime":1549.96,"body":"And so we did and she's like, okay,"},{"startTime":1549.96,"endTime":1550.84,"body":"I think I'm starting to get it."},{"startTime":1550.84,"endTime":1553.0,"body":"I'm like, yeah, you wouldn't want to invite them over"},{"startTime":1553.0,"endTime":1555.2,"body":"and then hand them a hamburger."},{"startTime":1555.2,"endTime":1556.92,"body":"She's like, oh, no, that would be bad."},{"startTime":1556.92,"endTime":1558.56,"body":"I'm like, yeah, that would be bad."},{"startTime":1558.56,"endTime":1559.4,"body":"Like real bad."},{"startTime":1559.4,"endTime":1562.04,"body":"So if you know these things and learn about them,"},{"startTime":1562.04,"endTime":1565.32,"body":"and then you can be a friend to more people."},{"startTime":1565.32,"endTime":1567.84,"body":"Yay, inclusion versus exclusion."},{"startTime":1567.84,"endTime":1568.68,"body":"Yeah."},{"startTime":1568.68,"endTime":1570.64,"body":"Versus some people who would go out of their way"},{"startTime":1570.64,"endTime":1574.44,"body":"to bake a hamburger and then proceed to get upset"},{"startTime":1574.44,"endTime":1576.6,"body":"when the vegetarian says, no, thank you."},{"startTime":1576.6,"endTime":1578.76,"body":"That's not the world I want to,"},{"startTime":1578.76,"endTime":1580.52,"body":"nah, we're done with that."},{"startTime":1580.52,"endTime":1582.48,"body":"I want to be nicer than that."},{"startTime":1582.48,"endTime":1585.16,"body":"So we're going to raise a kid to be nicer than that."},{"startTime":1585.16,"endTime":1587.12,"body":"'Cause if you want to offend,"},{"startTime":1587.12,"endTime":1592.12,"body":"you could offend Hindus, Muslims, and Jews"},{"startTime":1592.12,"endTime":1594.68,"body":"with a bacon cheeseburger."},{"startTime":1594.68,"endTime":1596.32,"body":"Yeah."},{"startTime":1596.32,"endTime":1598.8,"body":"Or, you know, vegans,"},{"startTime":1598.8,"endTime":1600.48,"body":"'cause they're basically religion too."},{"startTime":1600.48,"endTime":1603.56,"body":"It was a joke in our family that, you know,"},{"startTime":1603.56,"endTime":1605.48,"body":"I have a brother and he came home and said"},{"startTime":1605.48,"endTime":1606.88,"body":"he wanted to go to church camp"},{"startTime":1606.88,"endTime":1609.08,"body":"and we're like, my dad's like barely blinked an eye."},{"startTime":1609.08,"endTime":1610.72,"body":"He's like, yeah, whatever."},{"startTime":1610.72,"endTime":1613.84,"body":"Came home, said he wanted to be vegan."},{"startTime":1613.84,"endTime":1615.44,"body":"Dad nearly threw him out."},{"startTime":1615.44,"endTime":1617.28,"body":"Like cheese."},{"startTime":1617.28,"endTime":1619.36,"body":"The things we choose to care about,"},{"startTime":1619.36,"endTime":1623.72,"body":"especially as parents and kids come home"},{"startTime":1623.72,"endTime":1625.96,"body":"and start pushing buttons."},{"startTime":1625.96,"endTime":1628.4,"body":"I don't know how I'm going to react to certain things,"},{"startTime":1628.4,"endTime":1631.72,"body":"but I hope to keep an open mind,"},{"startTime":1631.72,"endTime":1634.16,"body":"even though I know realistically that as we age,"},{"startTime":1634.16,"endTime":1636.04,"body":"our minds don't do that."},{"startTime":1636.04,"endTime":1637.56,"body":"So we'll just do our best."},{"startTime":1637.56,"endTime":1639.4,"body":"(laughing)"},{"startTime":1639.4,"endTime":1644.4,"body":"And I would also say I've continued to be careful"},{"startTime":1644.4,"endTime":1652.12,"body":"to not present things as this is what Kylie needs to believe,"},{"startTime":1652.12,"endTime":1655.28,"body":"but what I believe."},{"startTime":1655.28,"endTime":1659.08,"body":"Yes, and the way she talks has shown that."},{"startTime":1659.08,"endTime":1660.88,"body":"But I can, like, we had that disc,"},{"startTime":1660.88,"endTime":1662.24,"body":"we kind of looked at each other at one time"},{"startTime":1662.24,"endTime":1665.2,"body":"and it's just like, is that worth the effort though?"},{"startTime":1665.2,"endTime":1667.4,"body":"It would be so much easier to say, no,"},{"startTime":1667.4,"endTime":1669.24,"body":"this is what you believe too."},{"startTime":1669.24,"endTime":1671.84,"body":"No, really, you don't really believe that."},{"startTime":1671.84,"endTime":1674.84,"body":"You believe this because it's easier."},{"startTime":1674.84,"endTime":1676.6,"body":"And that's why everybody does it"},{"startTime":1676.6,"endTime":1678.04,"body":"'cause it's so much easier."},{"startTime":1678.04,"endTime":1682.6,"body":"Can you imagine if you can deeply devout Christian family"},{"startTime":1682.6,"endTime":1685.16,"body":"and your kids questioning whether or not that's real?"},{"startTime":1685.16,"endTime":1688.12,"body":"Well, until they're out of the house too bad,"},{"startTime":1688.12,"endTime":1689.84,"body":"you're going to church and you're just going to live"},{"startTime":1689.84,"endTime":1693.08,"body":"like this because that's what we believe and it's easier."},{"startTime":1693.08,"endTime":1695.76,"body":"And we're already having to deal with your school schedule,"},{"startTime":1695.76,"endTime":1698.16,"body":"trying to remember your friend's phone numbers"},{"startTime":1698.16,"endTime":1700.76,"body":"and arrange play dates and now you're into sports."},{"startTime":1700.76,"endTime":1705.76,"body":"So, you know, there's that mess, you know, it's just too much."},{"startTime":1705.76,"endTime":1707.76,"body":"So you pick and choose your battles"},{"startTime":1707.76,"endTime":1709.56,"body":"and when it comes to religion,"},{"startTime":1709.56,"endTime":1711.44,"body":"I think it's easier for most parents"},{"startTime":1711.44,"endTime":1715.6,"body":"to just take that easy, no, just do what we do"},{"startTime":1715.6,"endTime":1717.08,"body":"until you're out of the house."},{"startTime":1717.08,"endTime":1721.2,"body":"Okay, except we see what happens to people"},{"startTime":1721.2,"endTime":1723.44,"body":"when it goes bad."},{"startTime":1723.44,"endTime":1727.76,"body":"So, you know, you get kids who start questioning things,"},{"startTime":1727.76,"endTime":1730.84,"body":"differing from their parents 13, 14 years old"},{"startTime":1730.84,"endTime":1733.56,"body":"and if they say something wrong,"},{"startTime":1733.56,"endTime":1734.84,"body":"they end up getting kicked out"},{"startTime":1734.84,"endTime":1736.92,"body":"or they end up having strange relationships"},{"startTime":1736.92,"endTime":1740.24,"body":"that go sound like really toxic for years"},{"startTime":1740.24,"endTime":1742.0,"body":"'cause they can't escape"},{"startTime":1742.0,"endTime":1744.36,"body":"or they blame their parents for something terrible"},{"startTime":1744.36,"endTime":1746.24,"body":"'cause they won't sit down and talk about it"},{"startTime":1746.24,"endTime":1750.4,"body":"and instead they just ignore the problem"},{"startTime":1750.4,"endTime":1753.72,"body":"at the dinner table and just keep hating each other for years."},{"startTime":1753.72,"endTime":1755.92,"body":"It's like, oh man."},{"startTime":1755.92,"endTime":1758.36,"body":"A lot of missteps to worry about."},{"startTime":1758.36,"endTime":1759.72,"body":"So, yay, that's fun."},{"startTime":1759.72,"endTime":1763.4,"body":"That's parenting for ya."},{"startTime":1763.4,"endTime":1768.24,"body":"- And of course, you know, our kid just finished kindergarten."},{"startTime":1768.24,"endTime":1770.92,"body":"If any of you more experienced parents"},{"startTime":1770.92,"endTime":1776.52,"body":"want to send some feedback in, it'd be greatly appreciated."},{"startTime":1776.52,"endTime":1778.28,"body":"- Oh yeah, we were less than a month away"},{"startTime":1778.28,"endTime":1779.52,"body":"before we're gonna have to start talking"},{"startTime":1779.52,"endTime":1781.92,"body":"about the Pledge of Allegiance thing again."},{"startTime":1781.92,"endTime":1784.04,"body":"(laughing)"},{"startTime":1784.56,"endTime":1789.4,"body":"- Shrug, whatever, we'll pick our battles"},{"startTime":1789.4,"endTime":1792.32,"body":"and figure it out."},{"startTime":1792.32,"endTime":1796.36,"body":"But in Idaho, at least we don't have the tank"},{"startTime":1796.36,"endTime":1800.52,"body":"and mammoths on every classroom."},{"startTime":1800.52,"endTime":1801.44,"body":"- Yet."},{"startTime":1801.44,"endTime":1804.0,"body":"- Yet, but we'll see."},{"startTime":1804.0,"endTime":1807.76,"body":"- All right, so if you want to send us some feedback,"},{"startTime":1807.76,"endTime":1812.76,"body":"you can do so at htotw.com/contact"},{"startTime":1812.96,"endTime":1817.12,"body":"or send us an email contact at htotw.com."},{"startTime":1817.12,"endTime":1821.24,"body":"Use the SpeakPie button or leave us a voice message"},{"startTime":1821.24,"endTime":1824.88,"body":"at 208-996-8667."},{"startTime":1824.88,"endTime":1827.68,"body":"If you want to support the show,"},{"startTime":1827.68,"endTime":1831.16,"body":"you can find out how at htotw.com/donate"},{"startTime":1831.16,"endTime":1833.28,"body":"and thank you Sally for the donation."},{"startTime":1833.28,"endTime":1840.24,"body":"And until next time, remember not all those who wander are lost."},{"startTime":1840.24,"endTime":1842.82,"body":"(upbeat music)"},{"startTime":1842.82,"endTime":1844.8,"body":"(upbeat music)"},{"startTime":1844.8,"endTime":1854.8,"body":"[BLANK_AUDIO]"}]}