Humanists Take on the World

38 War on Christmas 2024

• Dustin Williams, Lauren Studley • Episode 38

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We’ve got the latest installment of the War on Christmas!

The Catholic League claims Christmas

There are many Wars on Christmas

Cotton Candy Snowman

Italian Born Again Evangelicals War on Christmas

Number of people who believe in War on Christmas is down

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Humanist Take on the World, episode 38, The War on Christmas 2024. It's not the war on the war on the war on Christmas? Wait, what is that when you multiply something more than just like squared or cubed? How do you denote that? War to the power of... I don't know how many we're at. Man! Okay. Limitless. Welcome to the episode of Humanist Take on the World. I am Dustin and joining me is Lauren. Ooh! And... I'm going to say war to the power of like nine. Okay. We did it quite a few times. It's been a few years since we... Well, okay. Last year, actually, we did cover the original War on Christmas. Okay, then. Which was the Puritans. Ah, yes. The Puritanical War on Christmas and... Bill O'Reilly? Since then, you know, prior to that, we did... Most years, we had a War on Christmas special until it kind of seemed like it... People got over it? Petered out. You think it has something to do with Bill O'Reilly disappearing from the main stage? That was part of it. Okay. Stephen Colbert, no longer trying to poke it at Bill O'Reilly, definitely helped. Oh, I missed that. And I think the first Trump presidency followed by pandemic and Biden also just kind of... People stopped caring. Is it survival mode? People just keeping their head down trying to get through the holidays without making a big deal out of it? I noticed that there seems to be a lot less... Even just corporate, like... Yeah. Until... Until this year... Yay! The War of Christmas is back on! And this is an international war on Christmas. Ooh! But we're going to have to wait till the end to get to the international story. So click-a-baity, I love it! Subscribe, like! Follow. Follow. The current term for podcasting is follow. And that's been for about two years, maybe three, since Apple updated Apple Podcasts to follow and subscribe became money. Oh, well, still, subscribe! I'll focus on that one then. In Madison, Wisconsin... Oh, the Midwest. Home of the Freedom From Religion Foundation... And Cheeseheads. The Catholic League put up a billboard to compete with all of the billboards that FFRF has put up over the years about how everybody likes holidays in the winter. It's a season for all. The Catholic League... Even including Catholic League, New York, New York. Like, if you're putting up a billboard, you're a New York organization, and you're putting up a billboard in somewhere thousands of miles from New York, don't put your city and state. Oh, you want to just skip that part? You know, just like, here's my message. And, um, yeah, I'm totally from around here. You know, it was like when... You know. When, uh... Wait, that's not Wisconsin. When we had the billboard for Treasure Valley Coalition of Reason... Right. That was paid for by the United Coalition of Reason. Right. Out of Washington, D.C. They did not put their thing on it. They wanted to create local organizations so that it was local. And it was the local organization putting up the billboard, not some out-of-towners. That's important. Not paid for by out-of-towners. So, the Catholic League, what they put up in their F-U-F-F-R-F. Atheists strike out at Christmas. Celebrating winter solstice is a child's game. This is our season, not yours. Celebrate the birth of Christ. Merry Christmas. Paid for by the Catholic League for religious and civil rights. So, what got me about this wasn't just the fact that it is butt ugly. It is just basically a white background with the plain text on it. Oh, yeah. Like, somebody emailed it to somebody and they said, Sure, boss. I'll make a design. And then just copied it. It was child's game. Winter solstice is a child's game. Is this a reference to something that I don't know? Is this an inside joke to somebody that I'm not understanding? Because that is awfully strange wording. Obviously, they think FFRF is being childish in doing billboards. I believe they've even done them in New York City. I mean, if you were going to point out that billboards is a child's game, then that would make sense. But winter solstice, which predates your Christ's religion by forever, as a child, that was just... I'm like, wow, you guys, they missed the mark on that one. And every atheist, agnostic, non-Catholic will look at that and laugh because they're like, what? Well, and they missed it by a lot. Naturally. I mean, look at this. The winter solstice, 2,000 years ago, was on December 25. Yeah. Okay. Yeah. Christmas was intentionally put on the winter solstice. Yep. Speaking of child's games, if you're going to act juvenile. It drifted, and the Gregorian calendar was more concerned about fixing Easter and bringing it more in line with Passover. Which it doesn't, by the way. It's still fucked up. It's not perfect because every so often, it's a week different. They're so focused on Easter, they messed up solstice and Christmas. If they'd fix the winter solstice to line up with Christmas, it probably would have fixed Easter to line up with Passover better. But we've already had the year of missing days. We're not going to have another one for hundreds of thousands of years. So they have diverged because of reasons, basically. Calendar diverged in a yellow hood. So the fact that they are separate, fine. Yeah. Throw your hands up in the air and say whatever to that one because you can't fix that. Talking about the winter solstice, heck, we did a Treasure Valley Coalition of Reason Boise Holiday Parade float. I was so proud of that float. You did an amazing job making it. Of the reason for the season axial tilt. And that was eight years ago, I believe. Gosh. Yeah, a lifetime ago for us. It was a, I made a globe out of what, chicken wire? And paper mache? No, it wasn't paper mache. It was garland. It was tinsel garland, blue and green. And it was like, it was huge. And we stuck it on the back of a truck bed and trailer. And it was a, yeah, axial tilt. It's the reason for the season. And it's... And the Boise Holiday Parade was always way nicer than the 4th of July parade. So that was fun. Those people are just generally nicer. Yeah. And it was... It's fun to point out. It's fun to get people to think about it. It's nice to... Like, there are good reasons for promoting It's Not Just Christmas. Oh, I don't know. Jews. I mean, what? Wow, Catholics. Dick move, because you didn't... This isn't just the Atheist. Now, this one we called out Atheist in particular. Yeah. Not all Atheists celebrate winter solstice either. That was just... That's a nice one. It's like, hey, do you want to do something for the... What your kids are forced to do during a winter holiday break? And you're sick of Santa and you're sick of, you know, nativity scenes. Like, here's this thing. Since Festivus didn't really catch on, do winter solstice. That's old. That's ancient. And it makes reasonable, logical sense. But Jews fuck you in particular. It's like, what the... Like, from the billboard. It's like, it's our season. And you're like, okay. Now, I understand that Hanukkah is generally considered to be one of the lesser holidays. But it doesn't matter because it's just supposed to be fun. It's just supposed to be feasting and family and lights when it's dark. Sorry, Australia. And it's just one of those things that we've decided on as a, almost a human cultural thing, American in particular, that between December 20th and January 2nd, we just need to have fun. Because we got to make it through February. Fucking February. Every, every culture in temperate regions has had some kind of a light festival in the winter. Yeah. Usually right around the winter solstice because that's when it's the darkest. Sometimes it's a day or two before. Sometimes it's a day or two after. Sometimes it's the day of. But they've all done it. It's uniformly human need. And then that all got exported. So now the tropics can enjoy it too. We've, despite it not meaning anything. Right. They're kind of forced to in most of those places, right? Right? Colonialism. Yeah. Now, the other thing that I do want to point out with the Catholic League. Is, the Catholic League is not Catholic. It is run by people who are Catholic. They happen to be Catholic. But they're way more conservative, aren't they? Yeah. Yeah. Like, giving Catholics a bad name kind of thing. It's a lay organization that supposedly exists to support human rights in a way that, like, even some bishops try to distance themselves away from. Yeah. Because it's what they call it, religious and civil rights. Uh-huh. Except for atheists. Fuck you. Yeah. In particular. And Jews. And Muslims. I'm sensing a theme here. Yep. Not civil rights. Yeah. I also came across a nice article outlining a whole bunch of this year's War on Christmas. Oh, well, that's handy. It makes your life easier. You didn't even have to use ChatGPT to gather it all up for you? I still haven't done that for any podcast research. You're afraid of the robot overlords, so we haven't... Nope. Just nope. So, Lamont, California has had... Just as a side note, you know somebody else did, though, and that's how you got this article. Lamont, California has, every year, or since time in memoriam, okay, not that long, has been... Since Lamont was Lamont? Has had a Christmas parade organized by the Chamber of Commerce. Okay. Non-Government organization. Non-Government community organization running a Christmas parade. That's all great. Yep. Last year, the parade got sued for defamation. He sued Santa. The reporter who dug into what happened hasn't been able to figure out what actually happened. Oh, one of those. It's murky, huh? It's murky. All right. Like a foggy night. But enough that the Chamber of Commerce determined that they needed to cancel the parade. Oh, that's pretty bad. Did Santa get a little frisky? Defamation. Oh, defamation, right. That is very specific that somebody was... Said something about somebody else. Said something in writing that was against somebody who sued. And when you're messing with Chamber of Commerce, you're talking businesses. Uh-huh. You're putting somebody's business on the line by calling them out on some BS, then they'll sue you. Or if they called out a minority group. Or whatever. Yeah. It could be anything. Anyway. So, the Lions Club took it over, and the parade has gone on just as if it had still been the Chamber of Commerce. Probably the same people. Chamber of Commerce and the Lions Club? You know that they're in each other's club. Now, the Lions Club did have one caveat for participation. And that was, quote, There will be zero tolerance in terms of people intentionally creating conflict. End quote. That's awfully generic, isn't it? Intentionally? Okay. Now, there has been a rash of uncivil-like behavior in America for several years now. This is probably just them generically just trying to tap that down. So, if you're going to go out there and you're going to try to instigate chaos, you're not welcome. Because we've had a lot of that lately. Mm-hmm. The problem is that there are certain groups whose very existence is considered instigating chaos when it's not. Yeah. Yeah. I'm looking at you, atheists. And pride people. Like... With our next one, a federal judge ordered the city of Pratsville, Alabama... Oh, this is going to end well. To allow... Pratsville Pride to take part in the city's Christmas parade. Pratsville Pride had to sue because the city said they couldn't participate because it might be a threat to public safety. The judge smacked them down and said that Pride has to be allowed to participate because the judge thought it was kind of silly and childish for the city to use... It's for your own protection? It's for your own protection? Heckler's veto. Heckler's veto. I love this term. I've never heard this term before. What does that mean? that is the you can't participate, say your thing, do whatever because of the disturbance it will cause. Because of the alleged... The potential for heckling, I'm assuming, is where they get that little... They don't want people yelling out from the source or... It's the disturbing the peace, the general public disturbance. There are rules against causing or instigating any of that. And so the heckler's veto is just a way of... Realistically, it's something the South probably has a lot of history with. No. What? No. Where members of the KKK on the city council would say, No, you can't do your thing because our friends are going to heckle you if you do. And we'll make sure of it. So, no, you can't disturb the peace like that. It's like you can't have a pride parade because there might be people there who will want to hurt you. It's like your job as a parade organization, such as this one, is to guarantee people's safety. Yeah. But that's beside the point. Actual heckling, actual threats, and actual violence rarely breaks out. Yes, it does hit the news when it does. So, it seems like it does. But if you think about all the tens of thousands of parades that happen every year and the amount of actual violence that breaks out, it's really not that big of a risk. And having a pride group or having a secular group or having, you know, whatever you can think of, you can't participate with this idea of you can't participate for your own safety or for your own good because your existence is going to cause risk to yourself and others. It's like, but then if I'm not allowed to participate at all, then that will just get worse. The point of parades like this is exposure to let other people know that these people exist. You have the right to sue that to a certain extent. I'm not saying necessarily everybody that right goes across equally. I'm still icked out by gun groups showing up at parades with fully loaded ammo. But yeah, you know what? If you had a trailer that had guns on display that nobody had a finger on the trigger, I probably wouldn't have that much of a problem with it. But Boise 4th of July parade had plenty of that. Yes, and if you're going to deny one group to say, nope, you're going to cause chaos, and then they let groups like that join, it's like, there's your chaos, so what? Oh, yeah. You're going to hurt your feelings. But that's why you have to stand up and fight for your right to be in those, whether you want to or not, like, the right is still there. Absolutely. So, good on you, Alabama pride. Alabama pride and the federal judge who Recognized it for what it was. Stop being assholes. It's like, guys, that's, no, that's not legit. The Morris family of Hayden, Idaho. Oh, here we go. Local. Well, kind of. I swear, Northern Idaho is a different state. They think so, too. But, anyway, Hayden, Idaho. For those of you who aren't aware, from where we are in Boise, to get up to Hayden, Idaho, Idaho, which is far northern Idaho, you can make the drive without leaving the state of Idaho on U.S. Highway 95. It is three or four hours shorter to drive through Oregon and Washington to get there. It's barely longer to go through Montana. Yeah. Speaking of which, we need a petition to get our land back from Montana. Then that would help, I'm sure. But, no, it's a state, it's a different state. Anyway, so the Morris family sued their homeowners association that had forced them to shut down their holiday light display some years ago. I believe we covered it on the show when that happened. I do remember talking about this. And they claimed that the HOA was discriminating against them and their Christian beliefs. And the defendants insisted they did it because the display of 200,000 lights. 250,000 twinkling lights. And dozens of volunteers produced too much traffic and was just too big for their neighborhood. They were the biggest light display in, like, 200 miles. And people would drive 200 miles to go see this one house, which is really cool. But if you're in one of those little, like, labyrinth subdivisions, or if it's a cul-de-sac, and you've got people streaming by every night for four weeks, I can see an HOA saying, you gotta stop. That sucks. But if you invested the money you spent on light bulbs, maybe you could actually get a better mortgage someplace that could handle the traffic. Yeah. So, in this lawsuit, the jury sided with the Morris's and granted them $75,000 in damages. Well, there you go. The trial judge threw out the verdict. Okay. Because this is not an infringement on religious beliefs at all. And federal judges have a lot more leeway than most state judges do, so they can't ignore the verdict of a jury. And it went to a federal appeals court. That would have been the Ninth Circuit Court of Appeals. Which determined that, yeah, this needs to be retried. Ah, okay. The jury made the, basically that means the jury made the wrong decision. Also, the judge was wrong, and they need to do it again. So, no matter which side of the debate you fell on, you were wrong? In the federal court system- Reasoning was wrong. The trial judge, or the trial court, is the finders of fact. Appeals courts can only debate how those facts interact with the law, and whether or not the judge's reasoning, based on the facts found in that trial court, match up with law. If they have determined the facts of the facts, they have to send it back to the trial court to relitigate and get the facts straight. Well, you run the risk of a little town like Hayden, and it is small. What jury is going to be able to find facts without bias? In a federal court, I believe that would have been a trial in Boise. Well, a federal court, that was the judge, right? This is federal. Oh, the whole thing was federal. Yeah, this is a federal lawsuit. Oh, okay. So, the court would have been a Boise. How does it- I'm sorry. How does a lawsuit against a personal- an HOA turn into a federal case? The appeal? They were claiming it was First Amendment violation. Oh, so immediately- Or under the Religious Freedom Restoration Act. Okay. So, if you make the claim on federal law, you do it- In federal court. Federal court. Got it. So, yeah. Okay. Okay. If you make the claim off of state law, then it'd be a local court. Which would have probably been better off in their case. Now they want to go for the big guns. All right. Thank you for clarifying that. Yep. But also, in Hayden, Idaho, a resident broke the world record for the heaviest cotton candy snowman. Do people really have nothing better to do in Hayden? It is gorgeous up there. Get outside. It's winter. It's cold. It's snowshoeing. It's not that cold. It's just wet. Ew. Okay. Still, lovely mosses. It's just dark and damp. It's dark and damp, and people need cotton candy snowmen. And it's mostly air, so that's a huge frickin' snowman. They're also in- Other dimensions. The correct time zone up there, and far enough north, correct time zone being Pacific time zone, and far enough north, that the sun sets at like 3.30 in the evening at this time of year. You just said 3.30 in the evening. 3.30 in the afternoon. Nope. Apparently up there, that is evening. And if that's the correct time zone, I can see why people don't like your idea of correct time zones, because that's crazy. But anyway, did they do- The sun sets early that far. Do you give a weight? No. Or dimensions? I would love to know. Okay, let me look it up. The world's heaviest cotton candy snowman. Who else has ever made a cotton candy snowman? So maybe it's only like, you know, two feet across. And then you've broken the record, because nobody else wastes their time doing that. Who even runs cotton candy machines? Like, besides like school carnivals. Bombshell Sweets. It took them all day to make their 38-pound snowman of freshly spun cotton candy. 38 pounds, and it looks like it's about four feet tall? Yeah. Okay. Promotional Sweets shop item. Still, only one day's worth of effort? I feel like they could have gone bigger. It was- They used- Well- They beat the previous record- Then it rained. Ah! They beat the previous record by one pound. Okay. So that's all they needed to do. Okay, so they're just doing the minimum. And it took them all day to spend that much cotton candy. I know, just do it over a weekend. How much bigger would it be if you came back the next day and finished it up? And they used some of their holiday-themed cotton candy flavors. Rudolph's Nose, Elf Wishes, and Santa's Beard. Nope. If it doesn't describe the actual flavor of the product, I want nothing to do with it. Those made up the snow-like body, and the flavors Naughty List and Sour Gummy Worms made up the coal eyes, scarf, and carrot nose. Okay, clearly nobody's eating this thing anyway, so that's probably a good thing. One of the cotton candy machines broke down. Apparently they had a power outage and had to borrow a generator. Oh my gosh. Okay guys, let's do it. Today's the day. Woo! A power outage. All right, one pound over we go. Still, I would love to actually see the ribbon cutting and unleash the children. Bowling the cotton candy snowman. And it apparently only lasted for a day because of poor weather. Oh my gosh, it did rain on it. Yeah. Well, don't have it outside. Snowman, no! Ugh, Frosty melted away. And if you want to see the picture and details, the link is in the show notes. Very nice. It's silly. I like how the guy's kind of bent over to be at head height, and then the other person's like, no, I'm not bending over. That thing's only four feet tall. I'm not getting on my knee or anything. Just take the dang picture. Let's go. I'm exhausted. In Fairfield... Everything hurts. In Fairfield, Connecticut, the Knights of Columbus, which is a more official Catholic organization than the Catholic League... Yeah....has sued the town of Fairfield, Connecticut, for refusing to allow them to move their annual Christmas vigil, including nativity scene, to a more prominent park than the one they usually use. Okay. The Knights of Columbus say that this violates their freedom of religion. At least one town official has said that they denied it because of sentiment in the community. Nobody else wants this. But it sucks being the person who has to say no and then get sued for it. They don't want it in the big park. Yeah. They're fine with it being wherever it always has been. It's so funny that all of this war on Christmas stuff isn't actually like atheists or Satanists or anything trying to ruin Christmas for anybody. Nope. Nope. So, I guess it kind of is dead. I think we won. All right. Let's go ahead and move on to Italy. Oh, here we go worldwide. Let's go. The Italian war on Christmas. A quiet war on Christmas. Which is hilarious for Italy. While most people would probably assume that Italy is entirely Catholic, under a 2023 survey, it's barely more than 60% of Italians who say they are Catholic. They're probably mostly Catholic for tradition's sake. 4% identify as Protestant. Okay. And 3% identify as other Christian. Okay. That's not very many. Some believe the evangelical population is probably about 1%. Okay. So, 10% is not Catholic. No, sorry. 25, 30%. 30 to 35%. 10% is Christian, not Catholic. 60% is self-determined. You know, they are Catholic. And then there's everybody else that you have to have because humanity is diverse. So, for the evangelicals, there is a growing, like, they're having to try to separate themselves from the Catholicism that surrounds them everywhere in the country. Yeah. And one of the ways they have been doing that is by rejecting Christmas. Okay. Sure. And this is 1% of the population about? Yeah. Okay. Yeah. Good on you, I guess. That makes you feel better. Yeah. They believe it's empty rituals antithetical to their faith. This is not uncommon among, at least historically, among evangelicals. Well, when you look at major holidays, and the commercialization that's happened, and the secularization that's happened, and you look at it as a whole, and you are, like, deeply, you know, religious, and you have a definite idea of what matters, and you look at what it is now, you're like, how is this right? It's not relevant whatsoever to me. Yeah. The gift-giving, you know, the, you know, worshipping Mary in Italy. I mean, as a secular person, it's like, why do we put up a Christmas tree? Why do we bother doing all of this stuff when, deep down, it doesn't matter other than tradition, other than the nostalgia kick, other than the, because we're expected to spend money, give money, etc. I can see an evangelical or anybody else saying, wow, this isn't even the point. I'm going to go back to that. And the best Christmas traditions are from Germanic pagan roots. Well, what we consider to be the best ones. You know, we don't do... Free the lights, the... All the fun stuff. Feasting and drunkenness and... The good parts. It's definitely much more Northern Hemisphere. Eggnog is... That's American. American. Love it. Respect the eggnog. American... Anti-Christmas American. Reference last year's episode. Yep. And for our final War on Christmas story this time, it is a YouGov survey that has found that the War on Christmas may be over. Aww. Will this be the last War on Christmas episode? No. No? Not a chance. Let's start by painting a picture of what it looked like in their 2022 survey. Okay. Two years ago. They found that 39% of all U.S. adult citizens believed that there was a War on Christmas in the United States. Okay. A minority, but a large minority. Among Democrats, it was only 25%. Among Independents, it was 35%. And among Republicans, it was 59%. Okay. Because those were the ones that were watching the Fox News War on Christmas. Right. But that's been going on for a lot longer. 2022 is basically by the time they stopped doing... But it was still a pretty broad belief. Okay. Now, December 2024, only 23% of U.S. adults believes there's a War on Christmas. Democrats have fallen to 13%. Independents have fallen to 19%. And Republicans have fallen to 36%. Okay. You know what's funny is when I think about, do I think, me personally, is there a War on Christmas? Yeah. Yeah, I do. I would answer yes to that because I've been trying to fight it for years, personally. I do believe it because I'm participating, or at least I did when I was young, angry, and had the energy for it by doing stuff like promoting winter solstice or inclusivity, saying happy holidays instead of Merry Christmas. Like, I am one of the instigator, or I'm the instigator. So, I would answer yes to that question. That doesn't necessarily mean I think that that's a bad thing. But I doubt that they asked for clarification on people's personal beliefs on that. Yeah. They also asked which party Santa would be considered as. Oh my god, he's... Okay. Okay. Purple. Democrats were the party who most thought he would be a part of their party. Yeah. At 62%. Republicans were next most at 55%, and independents thought he would probably be independent at... 50%. Wow, who would have thunk it that everybody thought Santa would be in their party? It averaged out to the most thought he'd be independent or weren't sure. Because he's Santa. He delivers to all the good boys and girls. Except ignoring, like, 60% of humanity. Just ignore that part. But for those who do participate, all the good boys and girls, whether you're Republican or Democrat or Independent or Green. He doesn't deliver to Green Party. Sorry, guys. Libertarians. For children's Santa traditions, they found that the most popular one that parents would be having their children do was hanging up a stocking for Santa to fill at 65%. Okay. Saying they would. A full 27% said they would not. Okay. For one, a lot of people don't have places to hang stockings. We may do by buying a fake fireplace specifically with a mantle for me to decorate. And hang stockings from. Why? I don't want that crappy ribbon candy in the bottom toe of my stocking. But, again, totally brainwashed by my parents and their parents and their parents. The remaining things they asked about were all somewhere in the 40s. Going from most to least popular was visiting Santa in person. Leaving out cookies and milk for Santa. Just because parents want to have the cookies and milk. Really? Yeah. Mom spent all day baking cookies and dad wants a nibble. Writing a letter to Santa asking for gifts. That was at 43%. Good practice for handwriting skills, as I've discovered with a kid in first grade. And tracking Santa's progress on Christmas Eve. Oh, God. See, I always thought. 41%. I would say that's the stupidest thing in the whole world. Except, is it Noah? Norad. Norad has really made it more fun. Not just because it's freaking Norad. I love that. So, no, I don't think it. I don't believe in this stuff. I don't promote it. I don't consider Kylie, you know, under the disillusionment of it. But that's just fun because that's just geeky people geeking out. Go Norad. You are rad. It's like the pilots who go out and fly to draw Christmas trees on their flight path. They just do little loops for each branch. It's freaking hilarious. It's like, yes. Okay, go do what you're going to do because that's just fun and goofy. And the whole point of the spirit of this particular holiday is just to be fun, I think. Nearly one quarter believe that children are never too old to believe in Santa Claus. How many? 24%. Okay, that's all right. That's the Montessori kids, isn't it? The most popular actual age that's too old is 10. Okay. Okay. Yeah, I was. That's a hard one. Like, I have a kid who is, you know, if she were to tell another kid at school Santa isn't real, would I be mad? No. Considering that I've been hearing other kids say that since she was in preschool. Like, some kids just, they don't have that barrier. My mom gave me crap for it when Kylie was probably, what, four or five years old. Say, let's just let her believe in the magic. I'm like, but I can't waste my time on that because I'm not going to hide my handwriting and I'm not going to cover up, you know, it's just too much mental load already on the holidays. Trying to keep up the magic of that particular thing. Oh, man. I don't know how people do it. 80% agree with your mom. It's all for the magic, right? That teaching children to believe in Santa creates a fun and magical holiday experience. Leaving, teaching children to respect the belief of Santa, I think is very, that's the one I would argue. Mostly because I'm, oh, God, I hate even saying this, but I'm pro-Santa? Ugh. Because it's secular. And so my kid can do the Santa thing. The Christian kid can do the Santa thing. The Muslim kid can do the Santa thing if they want to because it's, it's not Christian. Go back to St. Nicholas. Go back to the history. Yes, it is. But modern? Nah. It's about shopping, shopping, shopping. And since I come from a gift-giving family, that is a part of the holiday tradition. I have no problem with that. I'm okay with that. But when a kid comes up to me and says something about Santa's going to get me this something this year, I have a hard time not just immediately looking over at the mom and dad and saying, do I say something? Like, do you want me to wreck this kid? I will. I've had enough eggnog to go ahead and let this party go. But no, it's, it's fine. I'm just, I think grandparents have a lot to say in the matter. If they're hosting Christmas, their rules go. And my particular parent loves holiday magic stuff. So we'll just, I don't argue. She loves magic, period. Yeah. She likes the idea of there being unexplainable forces and the childlike wonder and naivete. She'll keep that going for a few years because by the time that gets beaten out of you and you become jaded and bitter and it happens to correlate about with being a tween, your brain neurons are getting clipped. You're going to look back and say, oh, I miss those days. I think that's really what it comes down to. Yeah. Just, you know, the nostalgia of Christmas packaged up and ready to be sold every December and November and now apparently October. It's rough. Oh, it's really rough. Halloween, man. It's sacred. Santa shouldn't be sticking his nose in it. Well, that wraps it up for this year. Oh, thank you all for sticking with us. Hope you enjoyed this episode. If you want to send us feedback, you can use the contact form at htotw.com slash contact or a voicemail message at 208-996-8667 or using the SpeakPipe link on the website. You can support the show through Patreon, PayPal, Credit, Debit, Apple Pay, or Google Pay. And until next time, remember. Until next time, remember, not all those who wander are lost. And I hope you have happy holidays. I hope you have happy holidays. I hope you have happy holidays. Thank you.