Welcome to City & Guilds’ Youth Misspent podcast series, a monthly podcast in which we dive into some of the issues raised in our research report of the same name
The research found that the odds are being stacked against young people’s futures and career aspirations – particularly the most disadvantaged. So in this series, we want to showcase the work that various industries are doing to integrate young people into their workforces and explore how we might resolve the multiple barriers young people face when trying to enter the workforce.
Hosted by David Phillips, Managing Director of City & Guilds. this episode takes a closer look at the manufacturing sector, the opportunities the industry can offer young people and employers, and some of the challenges many currently face such as, acute skills shortages.
In this episode David is joined by:
For further information about the material quoted in this episode visit:
To hear more insights on how we can empower young people to enter the workforce and play an essential part in the UK's recovery story, you can subscribe to the podcast
Welcome to City & Guilds’ Youth Misspent podcast series, a monthly podcast in which we dive into some of the issues raised in our research report of the same name
The research found that the odds are being stacked against young people’s futures and career aspirations – particularly the most disadvantaged. So in this series, we want to showcase the work that various industries are doing to integrate young people into their workforces and explore how we might resolve the multiple barriers young people face when trying to enter the workforce.
Hosted by David Phillips, Managing Director of City & Guilds. this episode takes a closer look at the manufacturing sector, the opportunities the industry can offer young people and employers, and some of the challenges many currently face such as, acute skills shortages.
In this episode David is joined by:
For further information about the material quoted in this episode visit:
To hear more insights on how we can empower young people to enter the workforce and play an essential part in the UK's recovery story, you can subscribe to the podcast
let's look internally at some of the barriers that we know are there that are stopping those who come from those demographics wanting to be part of our organisation. So we've torn up a lot of the rule books when it comes to that whole recruitment piece. Hello and welcome everybody to the latest in this series of City and Guilds podcasts. In this series that we're currently doing, we've been exploring some of the issues that were very much highlighted in our recent Youth Misspent report. And we looked at the experiences of young people as they navigate the education system and start to enter the workplace. So across the series, we've been joined by a range of guests and it's the same today who I'll introduce to you in a minute. But they bring their insights about the issues raised and also gives us the opportunity to look at some of the work that's been done across a wide range of industries. And that's to better integrate young people into their workforces. Our podcasts examine the barriers that young people face when trying to enter the workplace and what can be done to tackle some of these issues. So my name is David Phillips. I'm going to be your host for today. I'm also Managing Director at City and Guilds. And today we're going to be exploring the manufacturing sector. So, so manufacturing, so manufacturing represents a significant part of the UK economy and accounts for about 8% of the total number of jobs. And over the next five years, the manufacturing sector is expected to need about 32,000 people to fill either newly created jobs or new jobs. Or to replace people who are going into retirement roles in the manufacturing sector can offer fantastic and very well paid opportunities for young people. With the average salary in the sector being in excess of £33,000 a year. However, despite these benefits, our research showed that only 2% of young people expressed an interest in manufacturing. Now, this presents, of course, a challenge, therefore, for employers how to engage effectively with young people to ensure they are aware of the wide range of roles and careers within manufacturing and also roles that, you know, offer rewards for those individuals. So without attracting new talent into the sector, employers in manufacturing will face even more challenges. But addressing this issue will mean engagement, not only from the employers themselves, but also from government and also the education sector as well. Collaboration between all three will be critical to ensuring that young people are properly informed about where their career might take them. And that will also help to ensure that young people are able to engage with their employers. So today I'm very much looking forward to discussing this with some more guests. We have four guests with us today. So let's start with some introductions from our guests, starting, I think, with David. If you could maybe just introduce yourself in about 30 seconds and just a bit about yourself. Thank you, David. Good morning. My name is David Land and I'm an industrialist. I've spent most of my working life in manufacturing. Good morning. My name is David Land and I'm an industrialist. I've spent most of my working life in and around the automotive industry, starting off as an apprentice and culminating in me being one of the made more members of one of the world's largest automotive suppliers and I have what I would call a very interesting and enjoyable journey. Brilliant. Thank you very much, David, and great to have you here. Jemima, let's go to you next. Yes. Hello, I'm Jemima Penwick and I work at Nestlé Halifax, which is the home of College of Streets and After 8. And I currently work in the manufacturing excellence team. So that sort of looks at continuous improvement projects. So within production of operations. But I did start off as an apprentice and now here I am today. Brilliant. Thank you very much to you as well. And some of my favourite chocolates there. So Sharon, quick introduction from you as well. And great to have you here as well. Thank you. Good morning, everybody. Hello. My name is Sharon Blyfield. I'm head of early careers and apprenticeships for Coca-Cola, Euro Pacific Partners. I have been with the organisation for 30 years and have seen many, many different changes. So really looking forward to this discussion today. Brilliant. Thank you very much. And Tom, can I just ask you to do the same? Our last guest for today. My name is Tom Mongan and I'm president of the Comtree and Warwickshire Chamber of Commerce. I've been involved in manufacturing for this is my 50th year. 48 of those working within the manufacturing sector the last two years supporting it through my presidency at the chamber, starting as an apprentice myself back in the early 70s. And obviously it's in my blood. Great. Brilliant. Thank you very much, everybody. And again, I'm very grateful for your time in joining us today. Right. So let's get into the meat of the conversation. So I just wanted to start by sort of getting to know, I guess, a little bit better, actually, and asking them, why did you decide to pursue a career in manufacturing? You know, what is it about the sector that inspired you to join it? So, David, can I come to you first? Thank you. Yeah, thanks, David. An interesting question. I get in some ways I was guided into it by one of my school teachers told me to get an apprenticeship. So I looked around to find what the best providers were in terms of apprenticeships. And for me in the northeast of England, that was a company called Cummins Engines. So I started there. I'd always had an interest, I think, in wanting to fix things and always wanted to know how things work. So engineering and manufacturing sector for me was ideal. But I guess if I reflect on my advice or that advice I was given about an apprenticeship, it was probably the best thing that ever happened to me, because during that apprenticeship, yeah, I did learn how to do things, how things were designed, how they were made. But I think more importantly, I learned how to ask questions and how to find about how to get things done by talking to people and working with them and convincing them in a lot of ways to help me through my journey. So it really did set me up for life. And the journey that I've taken has been extremely interesting. I've taken a couple of left and right turns. And I think that's one of the things that people don't realize about engineering, manufacturing, just because you start off in one role doesn't mean to say that you're pigeonholed for the rest of your life. I started off in process engineering and manufacturing, turned left and went into business development, sales, product development, product design and project management before then becoming an engineering director and looking after a number of sites across the UK. So a really enjoyable journey. A great piece of advice I was given by my teacher, although I don't think he realized where I was actually going to end up. But that's how I got in. Now, brilliant. Thank you. And I guess just immediately you've underlined the importance of that brilliant first piece of advice when you're at school that took you on to a career with lots of diversity and lots of different sort of progressions. Brilliant. Thank you very much, David. Sharon, can I come to you next? Yes. So probably unlike David, I fell into manufacturing. So I was made redundant from a job role that I had in an advertising organization. And Capri Schweppes actually then employed me. I worked in finance. So I then moved from Capri Schweppes into the Coca-Cola side of the business. So I never really thought I was in manufacturing. And I think that that's probably one of the challenges. But as my role, you know, head of early careers and in particular apprenticeships, my biggest apprenticeship cohorts are in manufacturing. So I've spent time probably about 10, 15 years as a business partner within our manufacturing, our supply chain side of the organization. And I have to say it is a real eye-opener when you go into manufacturing. I guess for me, I had a bit of a perception that, you know, manufacturing was a very, very dirty place to be. Yet when I walk around our manufacturing sites, they have some of the highest standards that I have ever seen. And when I talk about it, I always talk with passion. And so when I go out and I talk to young people about the world of manufacturing, it's because I am so fascinated by it that I want them to be equally as fascinated and as curious to find out more about it. So for me, it was probably more about the brand that brought me into it. And it was whilst I was in the organization that I've realized so much more about manufacturing. Brilliant. Thank you. And actually, we might touch a bit more on that sort of perception thing later. Because I also think, you know, we've done some of these podcasts before and I've heard similar things about construction as well. So it sounds like, you know, there are definitely common themes across multiple sectors. So thank you, Sharon. So, Tom, I'm going to come to you next. Same question, really. Why did you decide to pursue a career in manufacturing? Yeah, good question. And I can honestly say that right at the beginning of my career, I didn't want to be in manufacturing. I wanted to be an art teacher. But my dad, who was an engineer, gave me some advice on if you get an apprenticeship, son, he said you'll never be out of work. You can earn a decent living. So whatever you do, whatever avenue you decide to go down. And that started me on my journey within the manufacturing environment. And bizarrely, for somebody who didn't want to be an engineer, I've made a career out of engineering and manufacturing, and it's taken me all over the world. That's brilliant. Thank you very much, Tom. And so Jemima, to come to you as well. So you're obviously an apprentice. So why did you decide to pursue a career in manufacturing and what, you know, what inspired you to join? I think for me, I've always been a very sort of methodical thinker and I enjoyed a lot of process, whether that was like being creative in my baking or like just following sort of like standard routines to like get to an end goal. So I applied for a manufacturing role because I wanted to not be sort of office based job and knew that I wanted to be the creative and like sort of working with my hands and I definitely I always have. But I think now it's sort of developed even further being with Nestle. Like I've had a really strong love of learning and just wanting to learn new things and new processes. And within manufacturing, I knew that it was such a complex, fast paced environment. So regarding like advancing technologies, I've seen them trying to go to more digitalisation in the factory has been really interesting to me and I've loved that sort of side of it. And I think also with manufacturing within Nestle, it's such a global company as well. So there's like a vast amount of opportunities that they can provide you. You just got to find them and get networks going and find out where the opportunities lie. But with my manufacturing career so far, which has only been two years or so now, I've worked on lots of different stuff. I've done product development, worked on my coaching and leadership skills. And so currently now I'm working in continuous improvement, which has been really great, which has also helped like people management skills as well. But definitely a lot of variety. And I hope that's probably going to end up in the future as well for Nestle for me. So, yeah, it's quite exciting sort of career path I've joined. Brilliant. Thank you. Hopefully, you know, other young people will hear this podcast as well and just hear your story and actually thank you, everybody. That was a really brilliant, diverse set of answers to, you know, why you decided to pursue the careers that you sort of ended up doing and sort of went through manufacturing. So thank you very much, everybody. So let's move on just a bit more content before I ask you the next question. So government statistics, they've certainly shown that the number of people starting apprenticeships in engineering and manufacturing have unfortunately fallen in recent years. Our youth misspent research showed that more than half of young people hope to be earning over 30,000 in the next five years. So that, you know, based on what I said earlier, something that is very much well within their reach to achieve through a career manufacturing. Also, I mentioned earlier that the research found that only 2% of young people who are asked actually aspire to work in manufacturing. And with women, half as likely again as men to consider a career in the sector. And when we asked young people, you know, why, why this was, almost a third of the respondents said that they believe they lack the necessary skills to get into manufacturing. We also had one in five cited their concerns over the physical and manual aspects of the work. And then we had a quarter of people, young people, saying that they felt that they didn't know enough about what roles the sector can offer. So it seems clear that a lack of awareness among young people is one of the key factors that's preventing, you know, some of them from entering the manufacturing sector. So, again, I'm going to ask four panelists the same question. So and that question is, so what, in your view, can be done to address this lack of awareness and, you know, what strategies have proven effective that you know of that help employers engage with young people? So, Sharon, can I start with you maybe to answer that question? Yes, of course, David. And I have to say, those statistics don't really surprise me, in particular, the lack of awareness of what the careers are within, within manufacturing. And one of the things as an organisation we've strived to do is to break down the world of work. And we created a career map that we can take out to career shows when we do any school events, which shows you all the different pathways and in particular, how you get into the organisation and how you get on in an organisation. And many, many young people who have seen that career map said, I never realised that I could come into an organisation at this starting point and then move over to a different starting point. And I think that that's probably to do with a lot of the lack of an awareness in the education system, purely and simply because teachers are teaching the lessons that they need to, whereas industry needs to be able to showcase here all of the different pathways. And then interestingly on that, that skills bit, and I think we'll talk about that in a bit more detail later on, it is very much about we're here when we bring in particular young people into the organisation, we're here to develop them. And so the fact that they may not have the skills or they perceive that they are not capable or competent to be able to do it, actually, that's fine, because that's what we're there to do. We're there to teach them and give them those skills. And I think for me, it's just a lot of breaking down the myth around the young person's perception to really help them to understand. And quite often, I think within manufacturing, there is because typically, as I thought, you think it's quite a dirty environment. And you may not also have had family members who have worked in the manufacturing environment. Yeah, I know that for some of my apprentices, the salaries when they come off of their programmes, are considerably more than other industries. Brilliant. Thank you. And I think that perception point is a really interesting one. And again, I think quite often people, they think they have to have the skills before they get into the role. And if I like what you just said, that's what you're there to do is actually teach many of these young people those skills. So thank you. Thank you, Joanne. David, let's come to you. Same question. You know, what can be done to address this lack of awareness? You know, do you have any strategies that have proven effective? Yeah, I think it's a problem that have been around for a long time. You know, I'm towards the end of my career and we've always in the Northeast been talking about skill shortages. And I think a lot of that stems from two points. One is industry doesn't necessarily do the best job of advertising it and promoting itself. And it was interesting listening to what Sharon was saying there about that perception and image of what manufacturing looks like. I think the fundamental problem starts in the primaries and the secondary schools because the teachers have very little, if no idea about what happens in industry and about manufacturing engineering itself. I don't think it's an insurmountable problem. I think it's quite simple about raising awareness of the opportunities. It's about modernizing the image of what manufacturing is about. And it's about promoting that work life balance. I think there's a lot of people have that image of it was prominent here in the Northeast of, you know, if you were if you were an engineer, you got dirty. Well, that's far from the truth. I ran a big press shop and you could virtually, you know, eat your food off the floor. It was so clean and tidy. But one of the successes that I'd like to talk about that we found successful and it triggered off from a problem that I had when I was running the site at A-Cliff. We were taking about 20 apprentices a year. And what we were getting was some that wanted it and some that didn't. And it wasn't very good. I tried to get involved with local schools and found it difficult. But purely by chance, I got asked if we would sponsor a university technical college in South Durham, that's something that Baker Dearing Trust have set up. I got involved in that. And that's transformational for me because we've got now we've been open six years in South Durham, we've currently got 450 students on site, all of which have an interest in manufacturing engineering, all of which in the last six years, over 600 have gone to a destination, be that university, be that degree apprenticeship, eight times the national average on apprenticeships. And the reason that succeeds is because the people inside that building know what industry is about. And there are 150 to 180 large and small businesses that are actively engaged with the UTC. And students get to see those people on a day to day, week to week basis. And that's transformational and that's fundamental. That takes high end kids. And it also takes the ones that are probably not the best academically, but can still get into a job and a career. And that's worked well for me. So I think getting that school awareness is critical because if you don't get them at primary school, then their images and their options start to change quite considerably. So it's catching them young. Industry needs to do more. Education certainly needs to listen to industry. Brilliant. Brilliant. Thank you. And again, maybe that's a bit of an example, actually, what we were talking about earlier in terms of the need of all the different stakeholders to sort of work very well and sort of very closely together. So thank you. Right, Tom, same question. What can be done to address this lack of awareness? A very searching question and not an easy one to answer, because I've seen in my time as president of the chamber and this applies to all sectors. Now, everybody is struggling to attract young people into, you know, into a working environment. But a lack of awareness, in my opinion, you know, it has to start with how manufacturing and engineering is portrayed within the media. So if you look at popular soap, you know, the East Enders and Coronation Street, you don't see manufacturing or engineering. They're backstreet garages, you know, and it is so much more than how it's portrayed. And the stigma, which is really hard to lose in it's a dirty, smelly environment and all this sort of thing that has, you know, we stopped sending children up chimneys back in the early 1900s. So it's nothing like how it's portrayed within the media. So that has to change, I think, in making it a more positive promotion, marketing. It has to come to the front. You know, you have to show them the wonders. And it is a wondrous thing, manufacturing and engineering and all the disciplines within it, you know, from mechanical to civil, chemical, electrical, IT, aerospace, all these wondrous disciplines that a magical concept. And imagine having the ability to think, to draw, to design what's going to come into the future. Brilliant. Thank you. And finally, Jemima, over to you. Same question again, you know, from your perspective in terms of what you've you've been seeing, what thoughts have you got maybe on what can be done to address this lack of awareness? And have you seen any strategies maybe that employers have used to engage, you know, young people in manufacturing? Yes. So I think from personally what I've done to address, like the awareness of manufacturing is for young people, I've been involved in apprenticeship fairs. So representing Nestle and more sort of schemes we do, which include like manufacturing and engineering, sort of more technical sides. The young people really appreciated me talking to them because obviously I've been through the whole process, I understand like the capabilities of it and how young people may not know what career path to go down and sort of exploring different areas. But yeah, like you were saying, having more awareness of it so people can understand what is actually to do with manufacturing, because there might be sort of a stigma that they might have heard about that, like, like you say, it's not for women or sort of different areas that they might not think that their sort of development areas would go into. So that's been really interesting to be involved in that. And now I have actually got another one in May. So that'll be really good. So sort of sort of similar experience there with trying to get engagement of young people to figuring out their future paths and also sort of my Nestle experience for 2022 and 2023 has been splattered all over Nestle's socials for National Apprenticeship Week. Just to know, grasp more awareness about what we actually do and a bit more storytelling, because I think that's really good sort of way for people to understand what we do within our careers. No, brilliant. Thank you. And again, thank you, everybody. Another great set of very diverse answers. I think, Jemima, from your perspective, I think, you know, the example of using you as a case study, actually, the real person in the in the apprenticeship is a brilliant one. And actually, I think one I'm seeing being adopted more and more across sort of many sectors, which I think is absolutely brilliant. Let me move us on. So I just want to move on to talk a bit about diversity, actually, in terms of how do we encourage people from diverse backgrounds into manufacturing? So again, just a bit of context just to, you know, to look at this sort of specific challenge. So there's a 2021 report found that people from ethnic minority backgrounds made up only 5% of board level employers. So that's a really good example of how made up only 5% of board level employees in the manufacturing sector. And the sector also, and we've mentioned this already today, struggles with a lack of gender diversity. The same report found that women make up only 26% of the of the total workforce. So surely attracting people from a broad and diverse range of backgrounds is going to be really important for employers to help them tackle sort of skills shortages. You know, this need for these 32,000 jobs in the in the near future, you know, and to sort of help those employers create these long term succession plans. So when it comes to reaching people in these groups, we know that some employers have, of course, already been taking some important steps. But I guess what I just want to ask now, just explore a little bit more is maybe just find out a bit about, you know, what you've already been doing or seeing happening that works well. This is a two part question, actually. The first bit is, you know, what's already, you know, what's already working well? What are you seeing that's working well to to get diverse groups to work in the manufacturing sector? And then the second part is, you know, what could employers do more of to encourage people from diverse groups to consider roles in the sector? So Sharon, can I can I get your perspective on this first? Thank you. Yeah, no, absolutely brilliant. So what's been working well for us? So one of the decisions I took probably now about five years ago was that as an organisation, we couldn't do it all. And actually, we needed to work with partners to really be able to support us on this journey. So if I look through it from an early careers lens, but we've also done exactly the same for those who are more established in their careers. So I work with a number of partners. And one of those partners we worked with was to build our virtual work experience. And building that virtual work experience meant that we had both a live and on-demand approach so that we could start to work with more schools and colleges. But more importantly, we could target the demographics that we were looking at here. So those who come from a multicultural background, those who we wanted to attract females to come into the manufacturing environment, and also those from a lower socioeconomic background, which is something that you can't see. But there is data out there to be able to support that. And what we've done is that the live work experiences, where it's a hybrid, we have then specifically targeted those schools to be able to help us do all of that. And that's therefore allowed us to, I guess, amplify the opportunities within our organisation that young people, that we're looking for to be able to come in. But also, we've worked with external organisations as a much wider Coca-Cola approach to say, let's look internally at some of the barriers that we know are there that are stopping those who come from those demographics wanting to be part of our organisation. So we've torn up a lot of the rule books when it comes to that whole recruitment piece, and then we've taken a more non-standard approach. And I actually have the privilege from an early careers perspective to test out different recruitment processes that maybe those more established in their career or more senior in the business would probably bulk at. If I said to them, just take that person. So I can bring in young people who, and I've got real good, a great example right now, I had a young gentleman from Caribbean Heritage. He wanted to find out more about our engineering, more in manufacturing, and he got to spend a day. And that really excited him to go, oh, my goodness me, it's Coca-Cola and I can see myself here. He then went for the apprenticeship assessment centre and wasn't successful, but I didn't let it stop there. What I said to that particular site director is you're hiring right now for some operator technicians on six month contracts. Let's just give him one of those opportunities. Let's not interview him again. Let's give him one of those opportunities and almost get him to do the work that he's experienced and kind of almost have his interview and approach whilst he's in the business. And that way then he saw that we actually did recognise there was potential in him, but there was obviously potential in other people who got onto the apprenticeship programme, but we didn't want to lose him. Now, what I would then see is that it's almost becoming a case study for him to go and tell his friends and family, oh, my goodness me, Coca-Cola have given me this opportunity in one of their manufacturing site. And then it starts that ripple effect. And these are sometimes the non-standard approaches that you have got to take to start to make a difference. And it may just be one person, but if we can then replicate that and increase that and amplify that, that's the way for us to make more of a difference. Now, well, I sincerely hope lots of people are listening to this podcast because that was a really comprehensive answer. I mean, it sounds I mean, the whole thing. It sounds like a journey sort of you work through in terms of targeted messaging, partnerships, amplification for the individual, removing barriers. Wow. And actually sort of going into testing recruitment. And I think the other thing I heard, to be honest, is a lot of perseverance as well to help people. So no, brilliant. Thank you, Sharon. Tom, how about you? So it just comes to you, same question again. There's no easy answer to how to get the awareness to and the strategies other than what I've said earlier. And that is getting into the younger minds and demonstrating the wonders of the technology that's coming in and putting into them what they can do on their journey and sort of, as I say, sparking their interest that way. It's harnessing that, then thoughts and that energy and bringing it on as they grow up. Brilliant. Thank you very much again, Tom, for your answer. And before we go to the next question, David, over to you to sort of, you know, just give your perspective in relation to what's working well to attract more diverse groups into manufacturing and, you know, also what could employers be doing? Thanks, David. It's a real challenge. I think it's not a manufacturing engineering problem. I think it's a society problem in terms of getting everyone aware of EDI. And I think the youngsters get it far better than some of the older generation. And sometimes there's labels and tags put on things that create a problem that otherwise probably doesn't need to be there in the first place. So I think our challenge is not just to break them down, but to stop them existing in the first place and hopefully a generational thing that might help it to happen. But again, I'll refer to the UTC, you know, an example of getting students who may not have got a good understanding of education and struggling schools. And when they come into what I would call more a practical based learning environment, lights start to switch on. So that's not about anything to do with anything specific. It's just an open opportunity that they get to look and see what opportunities exist. And I think that that's the important thing that we've got to do. I think education is stuck in a bit of a time warp. It thinks one side fits all. It's too complex and it's too difficult to try and look at things. But every individual that goes into a class that's part of a school is different. And I think one of the things that I've struggled with in my own mind over the years is that when you look at industry and you look at a piece of kit, you can calibrate that piece of equipment to have a certain level of capability. And therefore, if you want to do something that's got real fine tolerances, you put it on machine A. If you want something that's got more generous, you put it on machine B. The most valuable asset we ever have in any organization is the people and we don't necessarily look at what the people are, what their personality traits are, whether we've got, you know, somebody who is a creative, trying to do a very methodical, mundane job, you know, and that's part of, I think, what we've got to try and do to help get those two things together. So for me, there's there's some solutions in there. There's some whole change of thinking. I think from the educational system, because that has to look and see what's happening in the real world and try and understand that their outputs aren't just about academic achievement, but they're about a student being worked and life ready, because that's going to make them happier and better individuals. And then barriers then start to break down because they've got a purpose and everything. So it's a huge challenge. I don't think it's a one that we'll fix quickly, but it's one that we need to work on. Brilliant. Thank you. And also just thank you to all of you, really, just to say that, you know, because it's so important the work that you're doing in terms of supporting people from, you know, less well represented groups. So, you know, thanks for your answers and thanks for everything that you're doing. OK, so two more questions to go and then you'll be free. But let's, you know, let's sort of, you know, look at what we touched on a little bit earlier. So we touched on manufacturing being a sector which young people often don't know much about, particularly in terms of the skills. So we're going to focus on the skills now that they need to succeed in this industry. And looking to the future, it's clear that the UK is in for a period of change. I suppose we're always in a period of change. But I just wanted to get a sense from you, really, from each of you, the types of skills that you feel manufacturing employers will be looking for in the future. So what are those skills? You know, what do you want people to hear those skills are that are going to be important? And also what kinds of qualifications or training, you know, is going to really set people up well for a career in manufacturing? So, David, let's start with you. Thanks. Well, there's a whole range of skills, isn't there? I think in terms of and this is part of what we were talking about before in terms of how do you attract people into the sector? You know, there are a range of jobs. I can probably list eight or nine different jobs, sales, marketing, quality, process engineering, process design, product development, etc. Each of them have different skill sets that they need. But I think when you're looking at the core engineering requirements, then clearly those STEM based subjects, your maths, your sciences are really strong. And I think it's how you can get that better understanding and use them. You're not going to develop a career in any industry now unless you've got good, solid education and you're probably going to push on towards a degree level in order to fully understand everything that's needed in and around that manufacturing. But I think behind all of that, what you need is you need people who've got an aptitude and an excitement for wanting to get to know how things work. I said it in the top of my intro. You know, I was inquisitive. I always questioned. And I think one of the things that manufacturing does is you challenge the process. So if you've got a bit of common sense and you want to get involved and you want to get excited by something, it's a great opportunity. And from there, you will learn the technical parts that you need to develop as you go through your career, you will find you will absorb a lot easier because you've got that natural appetite and that enthusiasm to want to get stuff done. So it's not a specific answer, but I think it's that broad based getting students who are work and life ready are important. Yeah, they're brilliant. Yeah, but the broad base is important, isn't it? And because like any sector, manufacturing is full of all sorts of different roles and sort of skills requirements. But thank you, Sharon. Same question, really. Well, I guess, David, the headline ones everyone talks about now, all we need digital and green skills, whatever green skills are. For me, in what I do, I actually look more at soft skills, which the other David kind of reference there. Because for a young person coming in, I want them to be confident, want them to be confident, to be curious and to ask those questions. I want them to be adaptable because the world of work is changing. What they will learn today in the world of work in five years time will be totally different. So they need to really be adaptable. And they also need to be resilient because as you are learning that you are going to come across things that you kind of stop for a moment and go, I have no idea. I can't do this. And then you find the way to work around it so that you've got that learning for the future. I love robotics. Not technically in any way, but I love robotics. But it's the curiosity around how it all works and that whole piece around, you know, the virtual environment and can I manage things remotely in a totally different way? That's that's what we want. But you don't come in with those skills. You learn those skills as as your journey goes on. And I guess in some respects, that's the beauty about apprenticeships and choosing an apprenticeship pathway that you can come in with very little understanding and actually build through the levels of an apprenticeship that actually help you to develop the skills and that knowledge piece. So I don't think it's an easy answer. David, I don't think it's an easy answer from a you must have these skills. The one thing that I do say to young people, though, is please, please, please, from an academic perspective, get your English and your maths, because once you've got those, they will allow you then to go on, particularly from an apprenticeship, through an apprenticeship to build all of the skills that we as an organisation will need for our future capability. So that's that's what I would say on skills. No, brilliant. Thank you. And actually, to be fair, it is a very broad question I've asked. But thank you. And Jemima, yeah, from your perspective, you know, what, you know, what are you seeing actually in terms of the realities of being an apprentice and the skills that, you know, you're sort of seeing are probably going to be needed for the future? Yeah. So I think from what I'm going to say as well is going to be a lot of foreshadowing of what Sharon and David has said, but a lot of just a lot of team building stuff as well, because you're collectively in a team and you're going towards the same end goals. That's really important to have really good communication skills within your team building in the factory operations. And that's a really key one. Yeah. And like what David said, be really curious about asking questions and understanding the process. And people are more than happy to help out and give you support in any way you can. So definitely be curious and show your passions through that. And yeah, be resilient as well. I feel like the factory environment is very different to an office sort of base environment, but there are some really great people there. Like, I honestly do love it. And I think even within my first, like two weeks of starting at Nestle, my line performance managers are like, what do you want to get out of this? Where do you see yourself in five years? And they're really on top of like wanting to help your like self development, which is really good. So just being open to what sort of opportunities might be there. Brilliant. Thank you. OK. And then so finally, Tom, over to you as well. Schools, it needs a seismic shift in how careers are taught into schools. When I was growing up and listening to what happens now, there doesn't seem to be huge amounts of change when they have career teachers and helping youngsters decide on a career. But we have gone down the road for quite a substantial while now of encouraging young people to go to university. And there's nothing wrong with going to university. But you do need a mixture of, as we touched on right at the beginning, people can make a great, you know, everything you look at, whether it's within the manufacturing sector, whether it's in the construction, every area of business, we have to lose, I think, if you like, the stigma associated with working with your hands. Right. Brilliant. Thank you, everybody. Another great set of questions. So we're nearly at the end. We now, well, first of all, thank you for your insight so far. But now into our final question, which we are calling the magic wand question. So in 30 seconds or less, if you had a magic wand, what is the one thing you would change to improve awareness of what kinds of careers are available in schools, in schools, in schools? Awareness of what kinds of careers are available in the manufacturing sector. So, Tom, I'm going to come to you first. If I had a magic wand, I would get into government and I would stop career politicians and have a more diverse, when we talk about diversity, getting into the ministers and MPs, because a lot of them are career politicians, certainly within the ministerial roles, with no experience of the sectors they represent. So to me, it's crucial that the people who are representing manufacturing should at least have knowledge or some sort of background in what they are representing. Brilliant. Thank you. So Sharon, what's your magic wand answer? So with my magic wand, I would want a television and social media campaign that gets the stars of the industry to share their journey, almost a bit like the armed forces do and get it splashed everywhere. Brilliant. Thank you. And Jemima. Hello. I love that answer, Sharon. That's great. I would say for me, yeah, I think kind of linked to Sharon's actually just more visibility of what a career manufacturing actually looks like. Just trying to break that stigma of working production isn't just technically running a production line. It's a lot more than that. It's definitely a lot more highly skilled in there with amazing career opportunities where you can move about and see where your skill sets lie. Yeah. So I'd say that. Brilliant. Thank you. And finally, David. 30 seconds is going to be tough for me. But what I would do is I would look to get industry closer to education and get education closer to industry. There are two currently separate silos of activity. There's got to be alignment in terms of how do you get the right fit, you know, in terms of what the development that we've got in manufacturing now and the innovation that we've got, education needs to know what type of individuals and students need to be in place to come out. So for me, it's purely about getting those two bodies together and sorting that problem out. Brilliant. Thank you very much, David. Well, thank you very much to all of you. We're coming to the end of the podcast now. Just a huge thank you to the four of you for sharing your fantastic insights. And, you know, I know people listening to the podcast will get a huge amount out of your experience and knowledge and also a huge thanks to all of our listeners for joining us and tuning in as well. I hope for you, the podcast has sparked some ideas and hopefully some discussions as well. Don't forget, you can also subscribe to our podcast via whichever podcast or platform you're listening from. And of course, manufacturing is such an important part of the UK economy. You know, it can also offer young people excellent career opportunities. So I think with a challenging period ahead of us, it's been great to hear about some of the work that's already been done to support young people into those roles or into these roles. So thank you again, everybody, for joining us today. If you've got any comments or questions, do reach out to us through our social media channels on LinkedIn and Twitter at City and Guilds, and you can find our accounts highlighted in the description of this podcast. We also find a link to our Youth Misspent Research Report. So once again, thank you very much, everybody, for joining. And hopefully you'll join us again next month. Thank you. Bye bye.