Welcome to City & Guilds’ Youth Misspent podcast series, a monthly podcast in which we dive into some of the issues raised in our research report of the same name.
The research found that the odds are being stacked against young people’s futures and career aspirations – particularly the most disadvantaged. So in this series, we want to showcase the work that various industries are doing to integrate young people into their workforces and explore how we might resolve the multiple barriers young people face when trying to enter the workforce.
Hosted by Craig Smith, Managing Director of City & Guilds Gen2, this episode takes a closer look at the engineering sector, which is set to grow significantly over the coming years. However, it is also a sector that faces an ongoing skills shortage due in part to an aging workforce, with a 2020 report finding that almost 20% of engineers in the UK are due to reach retirement age by 2026.
Despite this, our Youth Misspent research found that almost half (42%) of young people felt that they lacked the skills to pursue a career in engineering, and a third felt that they didn’t know enough about the roles available in the sector.
In this episode Craig is joined by:
For further information about the material quoted in this episode visit:
Welcome to City & Guilds’ Youth Misspent podcast series, a monthly podcast in which we dive into some of the issues raised in our research report of the same name.
The research found that the odds are being stacked against young people’s futures and career aspirations – particularly the most disadvantaged. So in this series, we want to showcase the work that various industries are doing to integrate young people into their workforces and explore how we might resolve the multiple barriers young people face when trying to enter the workforce.
Hosted by Craig Smith, Managing Director of City & Guilds Gen2, this episode takes a closer look at the engineering sector, which is set to grow significantly over the coming years. However, it is also a sector that faces an ongoing skills shortage due in part to an aging workforce, with a 2020 report finding that almost 20% of engineers in the UK are due to reach retirement age by 2026.
Despite this, our Youth Misspent research found that almost half (42%) of young people felt that they lacked the skills to pursue a career in engineering, and a third felt that they didn’t know enough about the roles available in the sector.
In this episode Craig is joined by:
For further information about the material quoted in this episode visit:
Beth Elgood
I think it's important that young people understand what an engineering career is, and have that explained to them and shown to them in its broadest sense because I think it's absolutely clear to those of us that work in this space pretty much anything that you're interested in could have an engineering or tech career associated with it.
Craig Smith
Hello, and welcome to the letter City & Guilds podcast each month we're exploring some of the challenges young people are facing, as highlighted by our youth misspent research to help them overcome the hurdles they face entering new industries.
Engineering is one of the most critical sectors in the UK with almost one in five people employed in a role related to the industry and demand for green engineering professionals has risen by 55% in the last five years. Engineering will of course be one of the sector's experiencing widespread and rapid change due to the government's commitment to address climate change, with the ambitious target of a net zero carbon emissions economy by 2050. These changes in the sector represent a unique opportunity for young people, not only to step into well paid long term careers, but also to play a vital role in addressing the climate crisis. Despite this, the engineering sector still faces a number of ongoing challenges. Our youth misspent research found that almost half of young people felt that they lacked the skills to pursue a career in engineering. And a third felt that they didn't know enough about the roles available in the sector, as well as struggling to connect with young people about the wide range of careers available engineering. The sector also faces historic challenge when it comes to addressing a diverse workforce while 50% of young men we surveyed said that they would consider a career in engineering, just 20% of young women said the same. Today we will be hearing from experts from across the engineering sector who can share their insights into what work is already being done to attract young people into these jobs, as well as sharing their firsthand experience into what it's like to pursue a career in engineering.
Now, if I could ask our guests for today's podcast to please introduce themselves by telling us briefly about where they work and the job they do.
Warren Page
My name is Warren Page, I work at Xract limited and we're manufacturers of motorsport and the high performance automotive transmission systems were based in Thatcham near Newbury, thank you.
Craig Smith
Warren and Remis.
Remis
I am an engineering student, I go by Remis. But I am just beginning my journey as an engineer based at a college in the south of England.
Craig Smith
Perfect. Thank you very much.
Beth Elgood
Hi I'm Beth Elgood. I'm the Director of Communications at engineering UK. We're a not for profit organization with a purpose around driving change so that more young people choose engineering and technology careers.
Craig Smith
Wonderful. Thank you very much to all of you for joining us today.
As we've mentioned, engineering is one of the largest employment sectors in the UK, and one which is set to grow significantly over the coming years. However, it's also a sector that faces an ongoing skills challenge due in part to an ageing workforce, with the 2020 report finding that almost 20% of engineers in the UK do to reach retirement age by 2026. Addressing this shortage will require employers and the skill sector to work together to attract more young people into these rewarding roles highlighting the benefits a career in engineering can offer. That's why I'd like to start today by asking my guests a little bit about what first appealed to them about the career in the sector. So Remis, let's start with you as someone who's currently studying to pursue a career in engineering, what led you to decide to make a career in the sector?
Remis
Well, when I was growing up, I was always interested in creating something and making things walking with my hands was always a dream of mine. And as I grew older, I learnt different career opportunities from my secondary school. Over time I began a bit more research into the engineering department and they're good that electrical and mechanical engineering was just what I wanted to do.
Craig Smith
Thank you and Beth, how about yourself?
Beth Elgood
So I'm not an engineer. I have to fess that up now, but I do recognize the really huge impact that engineers have on all of our lives, how vital they are to all of our futures. And I'm also really aware of the kind of huge number of really interesting careers that are out there for young people. And at a time when, you know, we're all facing quite tough economic times. And when young people are very concerned about job availability, job security and pay, it's really important that young people from all backgrounds are really well informed about the whole range of engineering technology careers. And so while I'm not an engineer, I've always had a passion for education and the way that that can transform lives. And the role that engineering UK plays in terms of looking at the need for there to be people entering the engineering and technology workforce. And having a role to encourage young people to do that is really what first encouraged me, I guess, into into working in this space.
Craig Smith
Thanks, Beth, and Warren
Warren Page
On the other end of the spectrum. So I started my apprenticeship in engineering in 1973. I always like making things when I was young, and I, that's what I wanted to do, as my father was an engineer in the aerospace industry. And he was a designer, so I wanted to follow suit. So then I found an apprenticeship went through that for six years, I was fortunate enough to work for a machine tool manufacturer. And that's what got me to specialize in gear manufacturer, which I've done all of my career. And now in the last 20 years, I've been involved in learning and development and running our apprenticeship at extract, which has grown throughout that time to something quite large now. So it's been an interesting journey and something I thoroughly enjoyed.
Craig Smith
Brilliant. Thanks, Warren. And interestingly, that's, it's probably worth saying, I started my career in engineering as an engineering apprentice with with National Grid years gone by and yeah, similar things that kind of resonate with me really, it was it was about wanting to understand things and also want in Korea that at the time, I was kind of I guess, Blair government days of 50% of young people going to university so I was kind of going the other way into an apprenticeship, much against the views of my my peers, really. So it was it was a fairly big step going into engineering, but absolutely one I do not regret. It's it's been a great career so far for me. So yeah, yeah, some of those comments really resonate. So thank you for those everybody.
So we've already mentioned the large number of young people who feel that they don't know enough about the rules open to them in engineering sector. However, we know that they've already been employers really proactively reaching out to young people to improve their awareness of the wide range of routes available to enter the sector, whether that's through apprenticeships or other various other educational pathway. So the question is, what more needs to be done really, to amplify the message and ensure more young people are considering careers in this area? Remis grip start with with you, how did you become aware of the opportunities that were available to take on a career in engineering? And also do you feel that your school or college provided you with the right information you needed to understand what options were available?
Remis
I first learned about engineering job sectors in secondary school, I would given first around two folders that highlighted different career paths and one describe different types of engineers available in the army. And I took one look at some of those roles. And I knew that then that I wanted to become an engineer. So I was looking around colleges, and honestly, the college I attend now is absolutely amazing. I couldn't have asked for better education. And not only are they providing me with every information I need everything I asked for all of my questions are answered. I also set up a program where we do certain set weeks of work experience in engineering companies out there so we can gain experience first hand.
Craig Smith
That sounds that sounds amazing. Remis, it's really great to hear. Yeah. So Warren from an employer's perspective what work at extract currently doing to engage with schools and colleges to communicate with young people and I guess guess more broadly and Beth and Warren have a view on on this given your role at engineering UK? Are the more opportunities do you think that employers could be highlighting the different kinds of opportunities that are available out there?
Warren Page
to highlight the opportunities were bearing in mind the careers advice is not very good at schools, or non existent. We as an employer are going out to schools and colleges, we do activity days as well as career fairs. So the activity days are a structured 30 minutes session where we be part of a lesson and this is for primary schools as well. So we look at gearing because that's what we do. We make transmission system dumbs. And we finish off with assembly of a sports car gearbox, it's quite simple, easy for them to do. And that gets them talking, we did it to primary school last two weeks ago. And that really got them talking, and it still got them talking now. So it has had an impact for that sort of work that's very important to bring across. And if other employers could take that into schools, which they do, that will be a great help. We also are involved with teen tech as well, which is an activity day where schools go into a central place where employers have activities. So all that sort of work is is really crucial for engineers of the future.
Craig Smith
Sounds great. Warren bet from your perspective, what more do you think employers could be doing?
Beth Elgood
When we look at this from within engineering, UK, we've looked at what it is that young people need in order to be able to join the engineering and technology workforce and, and we look at it in terms of them needing the skills required to become an engineer, knowing what roles are available, and what how to get into those roles. And they need to be inspired into the profession and to be able to see themselves working in engineering. And as you said, at the front of this, Craig, there's a gap there where young people don't necessarily know what engineers do, or indeed know what subjects and qualifications they need in order to become an engineer. And there is a real disparity across genders and indeed, other kinds of measures of of diversity there. So there really is clearly a gap to be filled. There's a wide community, including employers, including organizations like ourselves, including the Professional Engineering institutions, including all sorts of organizations whose whose pure role is around engaging with young people in kind of engineering outreach activity. And it's really important, I think, to make sure that those activities, whether those are led by employers or or by others, reach a diverse group of young people. So probably it is inexcusable, I would say that as a workforce engineering, so underrepresented women, as an example. And if we're talking about there being a skills gap, we need to reach all of the all of the UK demographic in order to both get the numbers in but also get the diversity of thought into engineering that were that's needed. They've probably we've done some research that said suggest that those students who attend a STEM careers activity of some type are three and a half times more likely to know about what people working in engineering two, and 3.4 times more likely to consider a career in engineering. So there's clearly something that is able to be addressed there. And the sort of activity that Warren just talked about in terms of reaching out into schools, I think it's important that young people understand what an engineering career is, and have that explained to them and shown to them in its broadest sense, because I think it's absolutely clear to those of us that work in this space, clearly, if you pretty much anything that you're interested in, could have an engineering or tech career associated with it. So I think that's really important. I think, some contextualizing perhaps, of the learning that our young people do in school, and linking classroom activities to the sorts of careers that they might go on into is really important. I've seen for myself, so engineering, UK runs the Big Bang fair. And we welcome 1000s of young people, usually to the NEC every year to to do some hands on activity, but also to talk to employers of of engineers. And you really see that when young people see what an engineering career might be seeing a young person that looks a little bit like them, doing those sorts of careers, you can really kind of ignite a bit of a spark in those young people. So So I think it's a bunch of things. I also think it's really important that when we're engaging in this kind of activity, we measure what's going well and what has a positive impact and share that learning amongst this very broad community of us all working in this space.
Craig Smith
Perfect. Thanks. Thank you all. That's really interesting. I think it sounds like there's a myriad of great work going on out there and, you know, really heartening to hear from Remus out on the experience that that you've had, and I guess the more we can learn from each other and amplify that we've we're just going to drive in Korea. increase the impact across the sector which which is, which is a big opportunity for us. That's great. Thank you. Thank you everybody.
Next question, I'd like to expand a little bit on some of the barriers that young people believe they face when it comes to pursuing a career in engineering. Specifically, almost half of young people believe they lack the skills required for a career in engineering. However, it's clear that there are a wide range of roles as you've just referenced there. They're both within the engineering sector, some of which will, of course, require specific technical skills, but many others, particularly at an entry level, place much more emphasis on the value of soft skills. So Warren, Beth, it'd be great for him to hear from you guys. First around some of the less known career paths within the engineering sector, and the kinds of skills that employers value outside of the harder technical skills. Is it possible for young people to begin work with an employer and develop the technical skills on the job,.
Warren Page
What we're faced with is some schools do not do design and technology, for whatever reason, some of it is due to funding really, these are helpful as the same as GCSE engineering, many schools, this isn't an option, you probably count on one hand, within the area of between it well, Hampshire barks here, sorry, he probably count on one hand, how many actually do that it is increasing, but it's not enough. Because the sector's not represented in engineering from that what we have to work with if they if they've done physics, and mathematics, and you've got some keys to work with. Within the apprenticeships, at extract, we actually make sure that we cover everything they need to cover for their career, we are doing the training for a career not not a job. So that's very important to put that through. And it's structured within our apprenticeship, whether it's a level two apprenticeship, a level three apprenticeship or level six, it's the core is exactly the same. So we make sure that all core skills are covered and within the engineering sector, then they've got plenty of scope, to actually seek employment all the way through careers unless they wish to change further on, but an apprenticeship in engineering will cover you for most things in life. That's what I found. Personally. I think that that is quite key for us.
Craig Smith
Thanks. How about yourself Beth?
Beth Elgood
I agree. In terms of apprenticeships there, Warren, I think if we look at roots into engineering, as they currently stand, you know, the main roots into engineering, I think those are through degrees through apprenticeships, and through vocational qualifications. Obviously, our T levels where those are two year courses taken after GCSE is broadly equivalent to three A levels. And then you and I think the first cohort to take T levels in engineering and manufacturing actually started in September last year, while some of the other T levels are kind of slightly better bedded in. And I think what's interesting about those is that they offer a combination of classroom based learning alongside an industry placement of 45 days. So I think that means a split of 80% classroom 20% work, and therefore, at that age are providing young people with an opportunity to, to do some classroom learning and then to put that into practice and to gain a bit of first hand experience in terms of you know, what going to work looks like and feels like and to understand their future career opportunities, as Warren was describing, you know, apprenticeships are so traditionally a pathway into engineering and technology careers, and something where both businesses and and young people actually really see that as an important route into skilled employment. I think we're doing some work on apprenticeships, actually at the moment. And what we have seen is a decline in the number of the younger, so 16 to 18 year olds going into apprenticeships, and I think that's something that is of concern and something that we should collectively be looking at, in terms of kind of the wider skills. So we've just commissioned and published some work by livecast, who are labor market analysts, and they do a big trawl of lots of huge databases, and look at the sorts of skills that are being highlighted in job ads. And and I think therefore, in terms of those wider skills needs, obviously we know that engineers are creative problem solvers and who are right there at the heart of, you know, sorting, sorting us out, really, so alongside specialist skills that are needed for those kinds. lines of roles. The light cause analysis, drew out some common other skills, things like communication skills, management skills, customer service, digital skills, problem solving skills. And as Warren was saying, I think those are skills that you can start to learn at school. But those are skills that you will develop when you're working in an engineering role. And there is that kind of need there for for those young people to come with as much of that as they can and to develop those on the job which apprenticeships provides a really good opportunity to do.
Craig Smith
Perfect. Thanks, Warren Beth. Really interesting. I mean, there's there's a number of challenges facing young people, I think, and what you touched on, there's interest in death around the decline in younger people taking on apprentices. I hear from our learners around some of the challenges that young people face financially and take an entry level jobs because they appear now rather than entering certain educational routes is a real difficult decision right now for people. So maybe one for another podcast say. So Remis, I'd like to turn to you now to ask a little bit more about your own experiences to learn and engineering, could you tell us a little bit about the kinds of skills that you've developed or made use of outside of the more technical training you've received.
Remis
inside my course, we have different branches, different classes and different lectures that teachers different units, I have learned so many of the business skills, so many of the mathematical side, the mechatronics side, the electrical principles, we are taught how to handle the basic hand tools alongside learning how to use author machines. And honestly, it has been such a large amount of information and it seems to be in such a short period of time. But it's a challenge that my course seems to be more than willing to be able to take. We have learned so many different pathways that are available to us through our work experience through our lectures through our coursework, it's also different and at the same time, it's all connected and so many differently.
Craig Smith
Right thanks very much that's that's really interesting is that there's a colleague that I used to work with years ago at National Grid who's talking about a an education for a career. And it sounds like that's exactly what you're what you're getting they're reading with. So I'm sure it'll serve you well in the years to come in your in your career.
So moving on slightly, we mentioned earlier how the face of the engineering sector is changing in the face of a new emphasis on green skills and helping the UK transition to a net zero economy. This is going to mean many people in the sector needing to develop new skills to complement their existing expertise, while also creating opportunities for young people pursuing a career in engineering, to consider new roles being created in evolving industries. In fact, the number of adverts for engineering jobs requiring a green skill is increased by nearly half rising by 48% to 212,000, jobs postings in the year 2122. And that's only since 2019. So Beth, Warren, it'd be great to hear your thoughts on the kinds of skills the sector is going to need in the coming years. And the kinds of areas that you're that we're likely to see significant growth, and how can we encourage young people to consider careers in these emerging areas?
Beth Elgood
So absolutely, as you've just articulated, Craig, looking to the future, we all know, it's a both a national and a global imperative that we've got the workforce to improve environmental sustainability and achieve net zero and everything that we know, says that the activities and the skills of those people employed in engineering will be critical in terms of achieving that. So the as an example, there was a green jobs taskforce report in 2021. That suggested that about half a million new engineering and manufacturing jobs would be needed to support the green economy by 2050 with something like two thirds of those by 2030. And the overall engineering footprint as it were, is becoming greener with ever more engineering job postings having that green job title or requiring green skills. And I think it's both new jobs actually, and also kind of traditional civil or mechanical engineering jobs becoming greener. And you talked about some of the statistics there. We've seen an uptick in the number of job ads for things like environmental engineers, renewable engineers, Environmental Consultants, and those kinds of things. I think, other skills, other sort of new areas or growing areas, as far as engineering is concerned, will be in things around chemical and biomedical automation, robotics, AI, those kinds of things in terms of young people and those careers. I think that we talked a little bit early. I think at some times young people aren't aware that something they're really interested in or passionate about, is something that might be addressable, so to speak by an engineering career, so we know that young people are passionate about the environment, you know, they, we see it in every survey that we ever read. We've we've had the the school strikes led by Greta tunberg. And very locally to what I do, we see increasing numbers of young people who who submit project work to the Big Bang competition that has a that has an environmental theme, but not they those young people don't necessarily make the link between all of those things and a career in engineering. And yet, we know that if young people agree that engineers are more important for improving the environment, they're seven times more likely to be interested in a career that involves engineering than those that don't. So I think there's something there about really bringing to life, how engineering is at the heart of addressing some of these environmental issues. If we if we look at that green piece in the first instance, because the more that young people are aware of that, the more likely they are to think about a career in engineering that would enable them to to address that sounds like
Craig Smith
a real opportunity there for us to leverage that interest and passion in engineering to attract people in the sector based on the impact they can have through through engineering rules. So yeah, that's that's a really interesting point. Warren, great to hear your thoughts also?
Warren Page
Yes, the green side of engineering is now integral with within the apprenticeship standards. Some of them are it's a very small amount, we have looked at different things. Within our apprenticeship, some of the BTech projects that some of our apprentices have done is solar panels on the factory roof, wind turbines. This This was 12 years ago. So it's young people thinking forward and driving it and us listening to them, is quite important, which is what Beth alluded to, I think, looking at power consumption within factories, how to look at what we use, whether it's electricity, gas, or whatever, is to bring that down and actually contribute to to our netzero side of it. I think within a apprenticeships, that's quite good to do. It's actually in a curriculum then and going forward, to be honest, for things that have to be done by 2030. We haven't got a lot of time, because, you know, the apprentice cycle is four years plus experience. So you start to run out of time to put things in place and get them correct. But they're in within the T level structure as well. So things are being done, and going forward. Now think they will gain momentum with the young people as well.
Craig Smith
That's great to hear. Warren Thank you. So ramus speaking from a learner's perspective, what do you think can be done to encourage young people to consider careers in these new greener engineering areas that Beth and Warren have just mentioned.
Remis
If I'm completely honest, I believe that the only thing that can be done is by continuing to spread awareness to people younger, to the balloon, who are in the secondary and primary schools who are looking to make a career plan for their future. Without the education of what there is out there. I was only able to figure out what I wanted at the very beginning of my college. Yeah, I only through looking around the college itself only realized what the engineering department was really all about. It's a really slow process, but the education, the awareness spreading, that is all you can really do, except advertising, just constant awareness needs to be spread about everything that there is to offer.
Craig Smith
Remis. So that's, that's a really good point, which which links to lesson Warren have, have already said really around, you know, time. It does take time, but we don't really have a lot of that time. So I think yeah, the more the more we can support employers to be out in schools, selling the virtues of careers and engineering, helping young people understand the sector, how they, how they can fit, can only can only be a good thing.
got brilliant. So, thanks very much to all of you for sharing your insights and opinions on the future of engineering in the UK. It's really, really been fascinating to hear from all of you about the challenges and the potential solutions. To get more young people interested in considering a career in engineering. We're almost out of time. But before we go, I'd like to pause our special magic wand question to our guests. So in 20 seconds or less, if you had a magic wand And what is the most important thing that you think can be done to encourage young people to consider careers in engineering in the coming years? Let's go to you first. Warren, please.