Engineering Skills: The Present & Future

Welcome to the City & Guilds Insight Podcast series, where we embark on a journey to tackle one of the most pressing issues facing the UK today: bridging the gap in our nation's skill shortages.

At City & Guilds, our mission is centred on empowering individuals, organisations, and economies through skills development. In this 2024 Insight podcast series, we delve into the heart of the post-16 technical skills sector with a bold question: Is it truly possible to overcome the UK's skill shortages?

As we stand at a pivotal moment in history, our workforce faces unprecedented challenges and remarkable opportunities. From technological disruptions, to the demands of a global economy, the path ahead is both daunting and exhilarating.

But within every challenge lies the potential for innovation, resilience, and growth. Join us as we shine a light on the intricate dynamics of the UK workforce, showcasing the extraordinary individuals and organisations leading the charge for change.

Through insightful interviews and discussions with experts and sector leaders, we aim to dissect the issues highlighted in the Department of Education's 38 regional Local Skills Improvement Plans released in 2023.

Are you curious about the best practices and innovations already shaping the landscape? 

Do you want to understand how skill needs will evolve in the coming years and the implications for your career, business, or life plans? 

Whether you're an employer, a training provider, or an individual seeking guidance, this podcast promises insights and information to inform your decisions.

Come join us as we uncover the challenges and innovations shaping the future of technical skills development.  Your voice matters in this conversation, so leave reviews and comments, you may find your question popping up in a future podcast. 

In this podcast we explore alongside Craig Smith, Managing Director at Gen2, how employers and training providers can embrace innovation and nurture talent to ensure this sector revolutionises our economy. By fostering collaboration and facilitating knowledge exchange among industries and training institutions, we hope to pave the way for an engineering workforce equipped to flourish in the future.

For further information about the material quoted in this episode visit:

STEM Learning: STEM Ambassadors
Engineering UK: Tomorrow's Engineering Code

Stay tuned for more fascinating episodes hosted by Bryony Kingsland, Funding & Policy Insight Lead, and Eric Oliver, Funding & Policy Advisor, both at City & Guilds.

Transcript

Craig Smith:
Evolution of engineering. So to give you some examples, I think technology is really advancing at pace. There's automation that's becoming ever more sophisticated. And I think engineers are going to be critical to designing, integrating, maintaining these ever more complex and ever more integrated systems.

AI is a great example of something that's kind of feels like it's come from nowhere very recently, but already is being used across. All kinds of systems and industries and engineers are gonna have to build, manage, troubleshoot these systems that are increasingly reliant on AI technology.

Bryony Kingsland:
You've just listened to a clip from the latest episode of the City & Guilds Insight podcast series, Navigating the UK Skills Challenges. I'm Bryony Kingsland, Funding and Policy Insight Lead at City Guilds. Workforce skills needs are changing due to new technology, automation, and the increasing influence and use of AI.

This series of podcasts aims to examine some of those changes. I will be talking to experts from many different fields as part of the series. If you work in post 16 skills as a training provider, or you're an employer interested in understanding more about skills or an individual learner or young person who wants to gain insight into future career opportunities, this is the podcast for you.

Today, I'm delighted to be joined by managing director of Gen2, Craig Smith. As we discuss the engineering mega trend we've identified as part of our local skill improvement plans analysis. Welcome Craig, would you like to introduce yourself?

Craig Smith:
Hi Bryony, thank you for having me. So I'm Craig Smith, currently working in City & Guild in the world of engineering.
Given that's very much my background, that's why I'm here today. So, my career started as an apprentice, as an engineering apprentice actually, in the power industry. But I've worked through that industry and aerospace and defence leading me into the world of education in City Guild. So, yeah, great to be talking engineering and be with you today.

Bryony Kingsland:
Thanks very much. It's great to have you. So Craig, as you know, in 2022, the government tasked 38 regions of England to research and develop local skills improvement plans, and they did that in partnership with employers and training providers to identify the current and future skills needs and shortages, which employers are facing.

So those plans were published in 2023. And at the end of last year, my colleague Eric Oliver and I analysed all 38 reports and developed a dashboard to help us understand what the LSIPs were telling us. So, as you know, our analysis threw up some very interesting common themes, and one of those common themes was engineering.

And what we're looking at going forward, now and in the future, is a bit of what we're calling an engineering megatrend. And we're calling it a megatrend because we can increasingly see that the implementation of both automation, AI and technology is going to mean that we need more and more of those engineers to design, produce and maintain systems.

So as an expert in the sector and someone who spends a lot of time talking to employers, what are your views on those findings and what's happening in the engineering sector at the moment?

Craig Smith:
So I think firstly, Highlighting engineering as a megatrend is absolutely spot on. I think the sector is really booming.

It's also evolving at quite a pace. So in terms of that boom, we're seeing real exponential growth in demand for skill. Looking at engineering within the overall jobs market, engineering jobs account for roughly 19 percent of all employment opportunities in the country. And in terms of recruitment into that sector, it's about 25 percent of all recruitment adverts are for engineering roles.

And from my point of view, that demand is driven by kind of challenges old than new. So, so starting with the old, we've talked for years about an engineering workforce and the kind of cliff edge that we've been heading towards in terms of engineers retiring and us needing to fill that gap. I think that is still absolutely critical.

And the work that, that the sector has been doing around recruiting apprentices and encouraging new starters into the sector has been really, really, really important. Positive. I think some of the newer challenges and that kind of evolution of engineering though, is really widening that gap and making us think a little bit differently.

So technology is advancing at such a pace. So automation is getting ever more sophisticated and engineers will be absolutely critical for designing, integrating, maintaining the complex and increasingly automated systems that we rely on. AI within that. It's requiring engineers to, to build, manage, and troubleshoot increasingly intelligent systems.

And also the existing infrastructure needs upgrading and modifying, you know, the, the sector that I originally started in was kind of built in the days of nationalisation,  pre privatisation, you know, it was very old systems coupled with very new, but certainly the older parts of those systems need upgrading, modifying, and again, I think engineers from various different disciplines are absolutely key to that.

An example of new technology, that's really kind of challenging. Engineering thinking is, is drone technology. So again, you know, in kind of the old days, we'd, we'd fly helicopters to survey assets with a view to, um, assessing the condition of those assets. These drones need designing, developing, manufacturing, they rely on software to sit behind that to control and automate the process, but then also the data you collect, you know, in the old days, we'd sit and view tape recordings and manually analyse
and record our findings, whereas now that can all be done by AI. I think finally on evolution there's the kind of the broader transition to a more sustainable future and that's going to require growth in engineers across a whole host of renewable technologies such as solar, wind, hydrogen. Carbon capture and storage, but then also kind of bridging across into construction energy efficiency and sustainable building design gain is becoming an area where there's increasing demand for engineering expertise.

Bryony Kingsland:
We were talking earlier on today and you said that we think of engineering as a sector. Yeah. But it's not really a sector in itself. It's one of those disciplines that sits across multiple sectors.

Craig Smith:
I think you're dead right to call it a discipline, and it does span multiple sectors. And I think that's part of the challenge.

So we talk about engineering, but actually, what does engineering mean? And particularly, What does it mean for the people we're trying to attract into the sector? And what does it mean for the people in the sector who are transitioning potentially from one sector to another, but still relying on that engineering discipline that they've, you know, kind of known and loved, that is now evolving in a pretty pacey way really.


So yeah, I think people coming into and already in the sector, understanding those kind of transitions and the way that the sector is shifting is really important.

Bryony Kingsland:
So linked to that, the post 16 sector, which supplies a lot of engineers, both, you know, at technician level, will need an increasing number of industry experienced tutors. to supply to make sure we can meet that employer demand for engineers. We know it's quite difficult for the FE sector to compete at the moment for salaries paid in industry and the commercial sector.

Is there anything that can be done about that challenge?


Craig Smith:
I think firstly, you're absolutely right, Bryony. I think that growing demand for engineers really does necessitate a stronger presence of industry experienced tutors within the post 16 education sector to equip the learners with the necessary skills sought by employers.

However, the challenge of competing with industry salaries is a real obstacle. Clearly needs to be addressed, but is a challenge for the sector. So I wonder if there's probably a number of kind of fronts that we need to think about that on. So I think firstly, starting with remuneration. I think while complete salary parity just isn't feasible, you know, there's not the funding within the educational sector to do that, uh, clearly.

I think offering salary scales that are more reflective of experience and qualifications is probably helpful. And I do wonder whether there's some sort of bonus structure, whether that's performance related bonuses, which I think people coming from industry are probably more used to, particularly private industries, or whether that's, say, signing on or retention bonuses to support us with recruiting those higher caliber professionals that we need, but then, you know, supporting them to stay within the sector.

But salary isn't the big on and end all, and I think there's, there's A lot of people join the sector for a lot of other reasons and it clearly isn't salary. So I think that those non monetary benefits are really important as well. And within that, having that real positive, stimulating place to work, I think is what attracts a lot of people out of industry into education.

I think also some of the flexibility that we can offer in education versus industry is also attractive. I think providing opportunities for professional development, whether that's through Conferences, workshops, networking, just that continuous CPD, I think is something that again, attracts people into the education sector.

I think there's a third point for me around collaboration and partnerships. I think the closer we can get to industry to help serve their skills needs, but also help them be part of the solution. So whether that's, you know, industry partners offering. Staff to be guest lecturers, associate lecturers, you know, creating that pool of people that education can draw on.

We've got that really current cutting edge engineering experience is critical. So I think there's, there's a model there of, of developing some sort of dual career pathway where people. Can remain in industry, but also support education, you know, potentially on a, on a part time flexible basis. There's some really good examples out there at the minute, actually, of sector bodies, you know, working to facilitate that partnership between industry and education and facilitating that knowledge sharing that's absolutely critical.

And I think finally, kind of. Streamlining the transition. So for those who do want to join teaching within the education sector on a permanent basis, I think supporting them to do that is really important. So whether that's through mentoring programs, really thinking hard about the way we deliver the initial teacher training.

So supporting them to be that dual professional, that's exactly what we've been doing actually within City Guild. So within our training businesses, we've established something that we've called our Skills Academy. and over the past 12 months, we've, we've had over 50 individuals join that program from industry.

And transition into education. So becoming that dual professional with the whole wrapper around being on boarded, well, going through their initial training, well being mentored, shadowing, rather than to be honest, when I transitioned into training, as I guess we called it back then, uh, in the power industry, you were very much kind of, you were in one day and you were in the, in, in the classroom that afternoon, almost it felt.

So I think, you know, that, that real support and supporting that transition is working well for us.  And we're currently working with some of those sector bodies to share that as a model that we can, you know, support sector wide. That's really great to hear because we're definitely going to need more of that going forward as we exponentially need more engineers.

Bryony Kingsland:
If you're enjoying this podcast, great.  Don't forget to subscribe to it on your favourite podcast platform and leave a review. It would be greatly appreciated. Now back to the episode.  But as well as attracting an increasing number of tutors into the sector, there's also, as we know, the need to attract more young people into choosing engineering as a career path.
What do you think the challenges are there? Because we know that in some cases it can be seen as a bit of a dirty job. But increasingly going forward into the future, that's not true. It's becoming, I suppose I'm calling it a bit of a sexy job. Realistically, it's working in sectors that are linked to green, that are linked to sustainability.

So what do you think we can do to promote the opportunity more comprehensively to young people so that they understand the pathway that an engineering qualification can lead to?

Craig Smith:
Yeah, that's an excellent point, Brian. I think, you know, in addition to attracting those industry experience tutors, there's clearly a real need to increase the number of young people choosing engineering as a career or others transitioning from other sectors into engineering as a discipline.

So I think in terms of the challenge, there definitely are outdated perceptions. So I think sadly, engineering does still suffer from the perception of being dirty or certainly a physically demanding job. I think young people and their influences, you know, whether that's parents, teachers, you know, they might not realise the breadth of contemporary engineering careers that are out there. I think there's definitely a lack of comprehensive careers, information, advice, and guidance. And I think that IAG really does play a crucial role in informing students about their career pathways, about educating their educators, you know, to support them in thinking about different career pathways.

However, there's, there's some real kind of challenges around offering that, you know, there is limited experience out there in, in schools. You know, in some of the bodies that might offer that advice. I think there's also a misunderstanding of the pathways that are available. So I think many young people do have a limited awareness of the really diverse career paths that are available in engineering, that whether that's engineering qualifications or apprenticeship could unlock, I think they don't appreciate the roles that are out there in terms of roles in innovation, roles in design, rather than just being, I guess, the types of engineering roles that you might see in your kind of day to day life.

I think they also potentially lack clarity around the progression routes. Beyond an apprenticeship or beyond the initial qualifications into higher level education and career progression. So, so I guess, you know, what, what do we really do about all of that? I think first of all, we need to change that narrative and we really need to shine a light on modern engineering and showcase some of these cutting edge technologies, the sustainable engineering that's out there, because that is.

To use once again use your word, Bryony, the sexy end of engineering. Yeah. and also kind of explore how do we draw out the diverse role models who are working in these sectors, you know, in kind of high end areas of engineering to share their experiences and be that role model for others. And I think there's also, Something around how we bring experiences of engineering to young people.

So whether that's organising workshops, industry visits, STEM challenges to provide that real kind of hands on exposure to engineering, but I think having said all that, I think there's loads happening already. Yeah. A lot of that does happen already. And I think it's important that we recognise that. And I think it's probably more around kind of amplifying some of that.

And for me, collaborating and working in a more coordinated way is really important. So a couple of good examples out there is the work that STEM Learning do through their STEM Ambassador Program. Um, I think really helps coordinate the activities that happen within schools, colleges. And secondly, the Tomorrow's Engineers Code, which Engineering UK introduced.

I think is another great way of getting large, any, any size company actually. I know The codes being signed by companies, large and small, but, you know, getting people to make that commitment to go into schools, colleges, and offer STEM engagement in that coordinated way. So we're kind of really on point with the messages that resonate.

Bryony Kingsland:
Yeah, that's great.

Bryony Kingsland:
So another one of the points that came up again, there is that need to upskill the current workforce. What can government and providers do about that?

Craig Smith:
The LSIP reports do very rightly highlight the need for that two pronged approach. I think it is about attracting new talent into the sector, but it is also about upskilling the existing workforce, you know, in that backdrop of, of evolution.

So, so yeah, what do we do about that? I think from a government perspective, I think one thing that always drives action is financial incentives, whether they can afford that or not, I guess can be government's challenge, but you know, some level of whether it's tax breaks or subsidies for companies who are doing what government want them to do, frankly.

So investing in upskilling of, of their workforce, I mean, the scholarships and bursaries, grants out there already, which are generally focused towards younger people, but I think once you get into that 19 plus area, it becomes ever more difficult to access things like that. So I think, you know, maybe if it's scholarships, grants, bursaries, and programmes like that, I think could, could be helpful.

I think it is also important to recognise though, what government's already doing and the skills Bootcamps programmes that they've introduced, I think is a great initiative for upskilling staff. For those who are not aware, Bootcamps, probably a very simplistic level, are broadly programs up to 16 weeks.

They're fully funded for new entrants into the sectors that the serving are really heavily subsidised actually for the existing workforce, particularly for SMEs that are accessing those bootcamps and the focus on areas with the most critical skills needs. So engineering, green skills and construction being some of those sectors.

So I think that's really important to kind of recognise as something that I believe is working well. I think also from a government point of view, there is something around how we recognise and start accrediting some of these upskilling programmes, because many of them aren't regulated qualifications.

You don't get a certificate from an awarding organisation say at the end of it. So I think thinking about a mechanism. To really recognise those industry specific upskilling programmes alongside formal qualifications is really helpful. So whether that's digital credentials aligned against some sort of national framework, I think there's, there's something in that.

And then secondly, coming onto education providers, I think there's a lot of good work already happening there around developing targeted programs in collaboration with employers. So I think just encouraging more of that collaboration so that industry gets exactly what they need. I think there's also something around micro credentials and modular training programs.

So particularly in that upskilling area, it's not necessarily a whole kind of full fat qualification that's required. I think whether it's. A more modular kind of approach, I think could be really helpful, but then also providing more blended options. So rather than, you know, traditionally face to face once a week, you know, block release or whatever that might look like.

I think giving people a much more blended options. So being able to learn remotely and only have to come into a physical facility for the kind of the practical. And the most value adding face to face elements is important. And I think that will also help us to reach a much more diverse array of, of learners to attract in people from those, more underrepresented groups.


Bryony Kingsland:
Really interesting, because there was a lot of talk at the recent annual apprenticeship conference about the potential changes to the apprenticeship levy, such as flexing it to become a skills levy rather than just an apprenticeship levy, though obviously that will depend on what happens at the general election.

What do you think is needed there to make a difference to employers for the sector has the engineering skills and the workforce needs it needs going forward in the future?


Craig Smith:
I think the potential revision of the apprenticeship levy from being a very Apprentice specific levy to a much broader skills levy is really interesting, particularly for developing skills in the engineering workforce.

There's some clear benefits, but of course, I think there are some watch outs as well. So, you know, in terms of benefits, I think greater flexibility would be very much welcome. So I think allowing employers to use that levy. To invest in the existing workforce in a much more flexible way, I think it'd be very welcomed, particularly again around this upskilling and not just solely focused on apprenticeships.

I think it's really important addressing those broader skills gap. So I think flexibility in a wider range of skills areas. Beyond those kind of directly addressed by apprenticeships, I think is helpful. And I think that's beneficial, particularly in the engineering sector as it evolves and has that greater need for, for upskilling the existing workforce.

I think that's becoming ever more critical. I think it also encourages innovation. So I think encouraging employers to think a bit differently and be more innovative around the training programs that really. Hit the mark for, for industry is, is important. But I think on the, on the kind of the watch outside, we absolutely can't cannibalize the current apprenticeship system.

So  for its faults, I do believe broadly it works very, very well. And I think apprenticeships particularly are really important for bringing new people in, into sectors. So it absolutely can't damage that. The funding has to come from somewhere though. And if it's not going to come from apprenticeships, then where does it come from?

So potentially that could be an increase in the 0. 5 percent of your payroll bill that we currently pay, or it might be a reduction of the total removal, uh, I guess, of the 3 million salary threshold, which would effectively bring more employers into the levy and frankly paying the tax. Employers may or may not be happy about funding, uh, you know, a broader skills levy in that way.

I do expect, though, that Eligible programmes would still need to be governed. You know, there's got to be some governance around all of this. So that would likely mean only regulated qualifications might be eligible for the funding or programs like skills bootcamps, you know, may be brought into the levy rather than it being a, a standalone program within DFE.

And I think finally, quality is again, really, really important. You know, I think the government. Delivering quality value for money programs has got to be high on the agenda. So, you know, will oversight from Ofsted, you know, be required or, I mean, for me, it seems quite likely, really, if it's government funded, then there will be some level of oversight, probably from a body like Ofsted.

So I think overall though, for me, I think. Any reforms to the levy that support upskilling, broader engagement of SMEs and a focus on these priority sectors would be a step forward.

Bryony Kingsland:
Great. That's brilliant. Thanks very much, Craig, for joining us today. So you've heard it from the expert there, everybody.

That was Craig Smith, our engineering lead at City & Guilds. Brilliant.

Craig Smith:
Thanks a lot, Bryony.

Bryony Kingsland:
Thank you for checking out this episode. Remember to share it with a colleague or friend. Until next time, goodbye for now.