City Voices: A City & Guilds Podcast
Welcome to City & Guilds’ podcast series. Each month, we’ll be exploring some of the issues raised in our recent research and across skills development.
City Voices: A City & Guilds Podcast
Menopause: Proven workplace empowerment tips
This episode explores the importance of supporting menopause in the workplace, urging employers to create supportive policies, educate staff, and normalise discussions. It addresses common misconceptions, the impact on family dynamics, and practical steps organisations can take to foster inclusivity. The role of leadership and the need for women to educate themselves about their health are also highlighted.
Episode takeaways include:
· Menopause affects a significant portion of the workforce.
· Supportive policies can help retain talent and improve wellbeing.
· There are over 40 symptoms associated with menopause.
· Anxiety can be a debilitating symptom during menopause.
· Open conversations about menopause should be normalised in workplaces.
· Employers should provide training for managers on menopause.
· Education about menopause is crucial for both employees and employers.
Series host Bryony Kingsland explores the transformative power of understanding and supporting menopause in the workplace with insights from Charmain Bucho, Head of Diversity, Equity, and Inclusion at City & Guilds, and popular speaker Natalie Greenslade, a registered nutritionist and founder of GingerGreen Nutrition, a dedicated nutritional therapist specialising in women's health.
With the rise in requests for information on questions such as ‘Why does menopause happen?’, ‘When does menopause start?’, ‘Can menopause cause anxiety?’, ‘What menopause symptoms should I look out for?’, and ‘Are menopause supplements worth it?’, this episode provides key takeaways for listeners.
Discover why nearly 18% of the workforce needs attention and how a lack of menopause awareness can affect careers and company efficiency. Charmain and Natalie reveal the financial and talent losses when menopausal employees consider quitting due to unaddressed symptoms. Learn how organisations can break down barriers, offer support, and create an inclusive, thriving workplace through open conversations, manager training, and empathetic leadership. This episode also covers practical solutions, including nutrition workshops, lifestyle advice, and support beyond HRT, empowering women and their partners during this life stage.
GingerGreen Nutrition
NICE Guidance (This guideline covers the diagnosis and management of menopause)
The Daisy Network
City & Guilds M-powered Community Support Group
For more episodes from the Navigating the UK skills Challenges series click here
Background Theme Acknowledgement:
"A Kind of Hope" by Scott Buckley is used under the Creative Commons (BY 3.0) license.
You can find more details about the license here: https://creativecommons.org/licenses/by/3.0/
Music source: Scott Buckley
Powered by BreakingCopyright: Melanchol
Women have been living like this for a long, long time. It's just the fact that we've been getting on with it quietly. We've been leaving work quietly, we've been putting up the symptoms quietly, we've been going part-time quietly. We shouldn't be doing that. Nobody should be doing that. Nobody should be impacted by any health condition or any transition through life and having just to quietly put up with it. Hi and welcome to the show.
Bryony Kingsland:Today we're diving into a topic that affects millions of women in the workforce menopause. For most women, menopause starts to affect them between the ages of 45 and 55. At a time when women are at the peak of their career and talent, menopause can bring symptoms that have a serious impact on work performance and well-being. This matters because menopause can be a real challenge for people who are trying to stay productive and to thrive at work. When businesses don't have policies and resources in place to support them, they risk losing incredible talent. Around 17% of women report considering leaving their job due to lack of support with menopause and 6% have left work. This is something that employers can ill afford, especially with the UK facing the skill shortages across many sectors that we are facing.
Bryony Kingsland:And it's not just about keeping people on board. It's about creating a workplace that's fair for everyone, supporting health and well-being and understanding the bigger economic impact. So stick around as we dive into how supporting menopause in the workplace benefits employees and businesses alike. You'll hear tips from our experts on how to get going with menopause support and the key issues to be aware of, such as nutrition, general health support, along with access to other types of resources. So over to our two experts who are joining us today Welcome. Would you like to introduce yourself?
Charmain Bucho:Thank you so much. I'm Charmain Bucho. I'm head of diversity, equity and inclusion here at City and Guilds. I'm also one of our executive coaches.
Natalie Greenslade:That's great. Thanks very much so, Natalie. Hi, my name's Natalie. I'm a registered nutritional therapist at Ginger Green Nutrition. I work with individuals with a whole range of health conditions, but my specialism and my focus is around women's health, particularly around perimenopause and menopause. Brilliant thanks, that's great.
Bryony Kingsland:So, Charmain, why is it so important for employers today to actively support employees going through the menopause, and how does that impact the overall workplace well-being and diversity? Do you think I?
Charmain Bucho:think overall. We know that employee wellbeing is so important, and menopause is part of a woman's journey in the workplace, and so for us as an organisation, I think it's vital that we're mindful, that we're aware, and that we provide training and support for line managers and all staff in the workplace so that, as we're experiencing menopause, we can still perform at our best and we're not under pressure or stress to feel that we need to do more whilst experiencing the menopause as well.
Bryony Kingsland:I know that 18% of the workforce is actually menopausal, so that's actually quite a high percentage. It's almost one fifth of the workforce, so this is actually a sizable cohort of workers across all the employers in the UK. So, Natalie, what's your thoughts on that question of why it's so important?
Natalie Greenslade:Yeah, you're absolutely right.
Natalie Greenslade:I mean, if we think about, there's about 33 million people employed at any one time, six million of those individuals will be experiencing menopause and even perimenopause as well, which is the period leading up to menopause, and these individuals are at the peak of their career.
Natalie Greenslade:And when we consider that a huge amount of these individuals consider leaving work, actually leave work, go part-time, that's a huge impact on organisations.
Natalie Greenslade:Then replacing those individuals if they do decide to leave work is another financial implication. And then you've got other individuals within the workplace that need to step up and support that individual until they become, you know, fully on board etc. And the training involved. So, even if you just look at the sort of financial side of it as an organisation, there's that element that you need to consider, as well as then being a good employer supporting those individuals, because it is a huge transition for women individuals at this point of life and so to help support them in any way they can to do their best, because that's all anyone wants to do. They want to do their best at work, and so we need to give them the support and the ability to be able to be their best as they go through this phase that can last quite a long time yes, and I think also the that item that you flagged about how many people actually consider quitting and actually how many people do quit, and I looked up some statistics.
Bryony Kingsland:Actually one in four actually consider quitting and I freely admit, actually, that when I was going through perimenopause in the run-up there were times when I came into the office and I thought what the hell am I doing? Why am I doing this? It's just so hard, it's too difficult, I can't cope anymore, and I'd always been the person that copes, and I know that there are loads and loads of ladies and other people out there that deal with menopause that have coped. All the financial costs for employers and the loss of talent in the workforce is actually really worth thinking about and really worth doing something about, isn't it?
Natalie Greenslade:Yeah, and for anyone that hasn't had any training and doesn't fully understand what we're looking at here is yes, it's a natural transition for women. Every single person born with a female reproductive system will go through the menopause, and whilst it's completely natural, that doesn't mean to say that it's an easy ride at all. And so menopause literally means the day that you've had 12 consecutive months without a period. Every day. Thereafter, technically, you're post-menopause. However, the time leading up to that day if you like that 12 consecutive months is a transition phase, and that's called the perimenopause, and this is where we get these huge fluctuations of the hormones before they sort of begin to tail off a little bit. And so it's this fluctuating period that a lot of women don't really understand what's going on, and that can start from your 40s, possibly even late 30s for some, and that's a long transition time. If you then think the average age is 51, where you then are diagnosed, if you like, as being menopausal, but then the symptoms don't necessarily stop, then the point is is that whilst then the hormones are sort of, you know, have tailed off, we're still producing them, but in much lower numbers, and so symptoms do tend to get lesser and lesser as we sort of age, but that isn't necessarily true for everybody. And so I think to understand that there is this huge period of time that can be 10 years, could be even longer for some women not all women, but for some women Then you begin to understand the impact. Then you begin to understand that at this point in life, if you're sort of in your 40s, height of your career, you could be going into board meetings, you could be having client-facing meetings and you could be getting all of these symptoms that actually that's a huge impact for women. And so if we just consider hot flushes only because that's the one that gets banded around quite a lot, then you're in a board meeting or you're in a client facing meeting, you're doing a presentation and you feel that heat rise through your body. You feel your neck going red, you feel your face going red, your glasses steam up. That's really embarrassing, that's really debilitating, and if we don't talk about it and we don't understand it, then for those individual women you can see why they might end up leaving their jobs. They just feel they're not able to do that.
Natalie Greenslade:If you've got a woman having night sweat where you are waking up several times a night you are waking up, you are soaked, your bed sheets are soaking wet. If that's happening to you several times a night, imagine that impact on your sleep. Imagine then the next day when you're coming in and you're trying to focus for your job. You know the brain fog, the sort of anxiety that then comes from that, this sheer exhaustion and fatigue. That's just two symptoms. Women have been living like this for a long, long time. It's just the fact that we've been getting on with it quietly. We've been leaving work quietly, we've been putting up the symptoms quietly. We've been going part-time quietly. We shouldn't be doing that. Nobody should be doing that. Nobody should be impacted by any health condition or any transition through life and having just to quietly put up with it.
Bryony Kingsland:It's enormous, isn't it? I mean, we've talked about the fact that one of the main misconceptions is just about hot flushes, and yet we know there are over 40 different symptoms. We've got a symptom checker on our City & Guilds menopause support website that lists over 40 different symptoms, and some of them are really unusual. So what are some of the common misconceptions employers and other employees and managers might have about menopause, and how can these affect workplace culture?
Natalie Greenslade:Yeah, I think the important thing also to recognise is that whilst we're talking about a natural menopause, there are other types of menopause as well that it's important for individuals, managers and colleagues to understand.
Natalie Greenslade:So we have the natural menopause that can happen for anyone sort of 40 onwards.
Natalie Greenslade:If it's earlier than that, then we would consider it might be early menopause, and so it's important for individuals that are maybe younger than that to go and speak to their GPs, because actually it may be that you need some extra support, because if you're going to go through menopause early, there is a knock-on impact of that from a health perspective.
Natalie Greenslade:There are other types of menopause, as I mentioned as well, there's also surgical menopause. So if, for example, a woman has had a full hysterectomy because the ovaries are where we produce those hormones that will put a woman into instant menopause, so then for younger women that go through a hysterectomy, with their ovaries being removed more often than not I'm a GP, I'm not a medical doctor, but obviously what does tend to happen then is that a woman is normally prescribed HRT in order to replace those hormones that she would be losing because she's going to be at a much younger age and therefore she's obviously at greater risk. There's also, then, chemical menopause, so that might be where an individual has had some cancer treatment, for example, and they may be on certain medications that are blocking their hormones, and so, again, that can lead to a lot of these symptoms as a side effect of those sort of chemicals, if you like. So I think that's a key thing for individuals to understand as well.
Bryony Kingsland:There's something else in there about those common misconceptions. Actually, we have, as you you know, Natalie and Charmain, we have a menopause group inside City and Guilds that we started three or four years ago by a group of ladies that were all facing some of these symptoms, but the main symptoms that affected our over 100 members was actually the anxiety, and that's actually probably one of the more challenging symptoms, because that anxiety when you were at work can be a really difficult thing to manage, can't it?
Natalie Greenslade:Yeah, absolutely, and I think it's the anxiety that, if you've always experienced anxiety, what you may find is that it suddenly gets worse around this time. If you've never really experienced it, oh my goodness, it's a shocker. I will always remember the first time I noticed that I was getting any kind of anxiety. I was driving and I was getting really anxious about where I was going to park. I was going to meet a friend and it was so stupid and it sounds really really trivial but I started to get really anxious, I started to get a bit sweaty, I started to really get worked up about it and I never thought twice about that sort of thing before.
Natalie Greenslade:And if we just consider, that's one tiny little example, and so for other women in the workplace, that's going to be a multiplied 10 times over and more, and it could be about really simple little things like being late.
Natalie Greenslade:We're IT work going into the office, you know we're back into this sort of hybrid working trains being late, transport being late, and and, and, and. That anxiety slowly creeps up on you and it comes from nowhere, and so it's really important that women are able to talk about it. They're able to get the right support they need in order to deal with. Certainly, they need to go and talk to their healthcare professionals, but there's things like CBT, cognitive behavioral therapy. There is also other types of therapies as well, so it's really understanding that there are lots of different things out there for women. There's lots of things out there that have been evidenced to work, and within a workplace we have those conversations so that we learn from other people's experience, and so it's really important that we share that between ourselves and within workplaces as well, so that we can signpost people to where they can get that support.
Bryony Kingsland:If you're enjoying this podcast, great, don't forget to subscribe to it on your favourite podcast platform and leave a review. It would be greatly appreciated. Now back to the episode, charmaine. From a practical point of view, what steps can employers take to create a more supportive environment for employers experiencing menopause and there'll be plenty of people out there that are experiencing that social anxiety, as well as some of those other 40 symptoms that we know about. So what steps can an employer take in terms of policy and everyday practices to support this?
Charmain Bucho:yeah, and I think it's really important to highlight, as Natalie said, is that this is a journey and everybody will experience it in different ways. So the symptoms will be varied and the time span will be varied and different and it will show up in different ways and I think that we're not just one identity. So in our support group we know that we have people that are going through menopause, that are neurodiverse, who also experience anxiety, etc. And they've got strategies and coping methods in place that tend not to work at those times. So I think it's being aware that different people experience it in very different ways and there may be other things layered into that and from a workplace, I think it's the first and most important thing is that managers and colleagues are confident and comfortable in talking about the menopause and having those conversations and, as an employee, not having to hide and to mask the fact that you're having hot flushes and it's okay to talk about it and to normalise it and not dismiss it. So I think that's the first thing. So they're very much the awareness, training and open conversations about it, because we know that it happens and I think when it comes to training for leaders and managers, we know that time moves on, things change.
Charmain Bucho:So being really, really supportive, our employee assistance program that we can direct people to, so we're not saying that line managers and leaders have to be experts, but they know enough about it to be able to have the conversation, be empathetic and supportive and then be able to signpost and I think for organisations it's that flexibility we're in a hybrid working world and being really supportive and allowing people to work very flexibly to be able to attend relevant appointments that they might need to go to, and making sort of reasonable adjustments as well, because for some people it may be that they need different equipment now or, you know, sitting for long periods of time can be a challenge, so other symptoms can kind of come up and throw up that probably weren't there beforehand.
Charmain Bucho:I think the kind of time off as well is important, and I know that we're looking at people being able to record time off sick, but as menopause, not other related sickness, and I think that's really, really important to say that it's normalised and we understand it. And I think that we also offer within City and Guilds a coaching program for all employees, and often it's supporting the individual because they're going through an experience that's new to them and then they're having to try and explain that to leaders and line managers. And having that support and safe space to kind of have conversations and share how it's coming up in their work and what strategies they can put in place, to kind of take a bit of ownership, I think is also really important. So those are the kind of things that I think are really key for organizations to consider as well.
Bryony Kingsland:So it's really having a menopause policy that everyone's consulted on and has taken a and has had an opportunity to feed into about what's needed and what's not needed, isn't it?
Bryony Kingsland:I mean, I remember the early days when we were having more open conversations because at the time when we started all this inside City and Guilds and we started Empowered, which is our own community support group, menopause was not spoken about. It was very much a sort of under the carpet type conversation that we were having quietly in corners. And we're much more open about it now. But I also remember the early days when we did start talking about it and I raised it with a manager of mine who happened to be male, and I saw the mild look of panic on his face of oh my god, I got to deal with this and I really don't know how to deal with it or what to say or what to do. And so I think having that policy that everybody knows about and everybody has been required to read, and also some training from managers, is really key. It's as you say, Charmain, it's being empathetic and being able to signpost. Yeah, it's the most important thing for managers.
Charmain Bucho:They don't have to be experts, but they have to have enough knowledge and be empathetic and they have to signpost yeah, and that's why the menopause policy that we've created is really supportive, so that everybody can have a look at it. They get to understand what it means for City and Guilds and what processes and approaches we take within the policy. So that's a really good guide and a really good starting point. So, yeah, we're really pleased to launch that menopause policy and we're working towards menopause friendly accreditation as well, and I think that really highlights our commitment to female employees in the organisation commitment to female employees in the organisation Natalie, just around City and Guilds.
Natalie Greenslade:And one thing that I really like that City and Guilds have done the same with a number of other organisations that I work with as well is this kind of wraparound approach that you've taken to Menopause. So you haven't just decided to have this standalone policy, which I think is a bit of a mistake that a lot of organisations make. They sort of think we've that box, we've got a policy. It's kind of sat there. What you've done at city and guilds is you've sort of taken this wraparound approach. You've taken a sort of menopause toolkit, which is what I talk to women individuals about having. So every organisation is going to have a different menopause toolkit.
Natalie Greenslade:But what you've put in your toolkit, you've got this policy, which is great, which is kind of the end point. But you've also then looked well, how do we support women? How do we support individuals within the workplace to maybe make their transition easier and support them so that maybe we never need to tap into that menopause policy, maybe we never need to give them time off because actually their symptoms have improved, their quality of life's improved, they're doing better at work and actually the frequency we have to tap into that. That policy is getting less and less and you've kind of done that by having your menopause champions. I know you have a lot of talks, you've got senior leaders that have been talking about menopause and you've been also doing other sessions around coaching.
Bryony Kingsland:You've had nutrition and lifestyle as well, which has helped support individuals, and I think that's a really great example to other organizations about what you can do right around this subject well, you were right in there at the beginning with that, because in the early stages, when we first started talking about having a menopause support group and Kirsty, who's our, our CEO, was like my god, yes, please, let's do that because we really need it and I need it um is, what role can leadership and management play in normalising it?
Bryony Kingsland:And it was actually. You were really incredible because you were flanked as being an opportunity to come in and do a workshop on nutrition and that was something that we hadn't even really considered as a business. That might actually be a really key part of improving people's menopause journey. And I think actually that role that leadership and management take at looking at that more rounded, that more sort of enveloping approach to menopause and making sure that it's not just about having a policy in place, was really key. So I mean, from the point of view of sort of leadership and management, how important is it? Do you think that you've got a really strong leadership, influence and approach when it comes to supporting menopause?
Natalie Greenslade:Totally. I mean, if you see someone represented at a leadership level within your organisation, that just filters down. What we need to remember is that it's not just female leaders that will be experiencing this. We have male leaders as well who are struggling with a partner at home, or you know somebody in their life that's going through it and they don't know how to support them. It's about involving men in the conversation. How are they struggling with it? What's the difficulties for them? What is it they would like to know? And in that way, if we're having a conversation with everybody, we are much better placed to deal with this and know what kind of support we need to be putting in place, not just for individuals transitioning to perimenopause and menopause, but those individuals that are having to support them as well.
Bryony Kingsland:Yeah, I remember in the early days this was something that we hadn't considered as a group. Obviously, we were all ladies of a certain age. We're thinking about ourselves. But as the group progressed, I remember talking to various individuals who were saying actually, my family is really struggling with this because when I'm at home I'm not myself, I'm more snappy, I'm more bad tempered, I'm more irritable because of the anxiety and the various issues that I'm dealing with, the fact that I've got constant insomnia from the hot flushes, so I'm not sleeping, my husband's not sleeping, and actually it's affecting my marriage, it's affecting my children, who are suddenly looking at me as a parent and going what's wrong with mum? She's always been really placid and easygoing and suddenly she's not.
Bryony Kingsland:And so we actually had a couple of male colleagues who approached us and said it would be really great if we had some better understanding of how we can support our partners, because it is affecting us and it's affecting our sleep and it's affecting our lives and it's affecting our children. Don't think about that wider aspect of menopause. It's been so concentrated in the female space, but actually if you are a female in a family, it affects the whole broader family as well. So that's something we're looking at at the moment. Is you know, what can we actually do to make families better, and what resources can we put out or put on our website that would actually be suitable for families and suitable for the wider business to be able to access as well?
Natalie Greenslade:I think that's a great consideration and I think what we need to remember is that women now, generally speaking, are still the main carers. So if we look at women within the workplace, we're transitioning that phase at a key part of our career. We may still have teenagers at home, or we may have children that have gone off to university and come back home again, and so you've got that transition sort of going on. We've also got ageing parents and, generally speaking, we know from the studies that most women are involved in the care of elderly parents, whether they're your own or in-laws as well. So you've got that side of it. So women are having to juggle an awful lot.
Natalie Greenslade:We do know that there are an increased cases of marriage breakdowns at this point in life, and what a shame. I mean. So many of those marriages could have been saved if A women knew what was happening and got the right support. Men knew how to support their loved one and help them transition. But a lot of this comes back to communication and that's the key, key thing, in the same way that mental health has now been broken down in terms of the fact we're much more aware of what it is, what it involves, much more accepting of it. There's no longer that taboo around it. Menopause fits into that as well, because we know a lot of women struggle with their mental health as they go through this phase as well.
Bryony Kingsland:But we talked, we've mentioned HRT and HRT is great and it does work for some, but it's not obviously available for everybody for a variety of different health reasons and everybody's journey is absolutely different. But we've spoken and mentioned that there are other sort of you know, approaches and things that you can do that can make a difference and can make your menopause journey more comfortable. What other things can women and can companies put in place that can support people going through the menopause?
Natalie Greenslade:yeah, well, I think the first thing as an organization or as an individual, is to ensure you have the nice guidelines um on your internal intranet or, as an individual woman, know what theICE guidelines say about. Firstly, diagnosis so it's really understanding what is the diagnosis of perimenopause and menopause. So that's the first thing. Then looking at what are the options so historically you know, women might have been prescribed things like antidepressants. We know now that is no longer the first line of medication for individuals. So then it's looking at HRT. When I talk about a menopause toolkit, what we need to remember.
Natalie Greenslade:As you've already rightly said, every woman's experience will be different. So we can have lots of conversations, you can find out what your friends are doing, but that might not be the right thing for you. Some women will be lucky enough that they don't even really know that they've hit menopause. They just suddenly wake up one day and think, gosh, when was the last time I had a period? And they've transitioned it really well, really nicely. Some women will get some horrendous symptoms and then there will be other women. Most of us will be somewhere in between that. Most of us will not be lucky enough to just transition it really easily. Most of us will get some symptoms. They may be horrendous at some points. They may not be at other points, but we will all be on that spectrum somewhere. So it's really important to understand what do you need within your toolkit. And what I would say is, regardless of which route you go down, for every single woman transitioning perimenopause and menopause, nutritional lifestyle is a fundamental. So that is non-negotiable. That has to be an absolute starting point. You need to understand what is happening with your body. It's not just about replacing the HRT and expecting everything to be okay, because actually, for some women they find that it doesn't make a difference or they're encouraged to keep increasing the dosage. Then we layer on top of that. What else do you need within that toolkit as an individual? So for some women that will be enough. Nutrition and lifestyle will be enough. For other women, they need some support in terms of cognitive behavioral therapy. They are available on the NHS. There is also evidence around things like acupuncture which, again, for some women may be very, very useful.
Natalie Greenslade:So it's looking at what are all the things that are available, starting off with the nice guidelines, looking at if you want to go to your GP and have a conversation about perimenopause and menopause. My number one thing that I would do and if you're an organization is to have that available on your intranet or wherever you put all of your resources. Have that available, your intranet or wherever you put all of your resources. Have that available. So even if you're a male employee and you've got a partner at home that's struggling, you can print those off and take them home. Talk through with your partner, tick off the issues that you've got, what's relevant to you, even look at what's available and then when you go to your GP, if you want to have that conversation, you are much more informed. You will save time within that consultation. You're going to make it so much easier for that GP to have a conversation with you about where they think you are on that kind of timeline of perimenopause and menopause what they think might be best for you.
Natalie Greenslade:So I think there's lots of things that we can do as individuals and I think for women as well, it's really understanding that this is a time in your life that you really need to make some changes.
Natalie Greenslade:You cannot continue as you were in your 20s and your 30s and possibly even early 40s. It's a real transition period that you have got to work a lot harder at, unfortunately, in terms of that lifestyle. So I think, as employers, it's also looking at what other organisations are out there and providing those links. So, for think, as employers, it's also looking at what other organizations are out there and providing those links. So, for example, if for women that are maybe going through an early menopause there's charities like the Daisy Network that provide some really useful information. So if I was an employer, I would be looking at almost trying to provide a one-stop shot for my employees to make it as easy as possible for men and for women within that organisation and providing as much information. You're not supposed to be the expert, by the way, but it's just making it easier. And if you've got that policy there, then why not provide those other links as well to organisations that can be really supportive for your colleagues and your employees.
Bryony Kingsland:I think that's really key, isn't it and we've talked about this before, I know, but I think it is that work that an employer does to help employees educate themselves. And in the early days, we talked about educating yourself before going to your GP, because actually we know that GPs don't get any specific menopause training at the moment. We're hoping that it might come at some point in the future, but most GPs don't get any specific menopause training at the moment. We're hoping that it might come at some point in the future, but most GPs don't have specific menopause training. It's that educating yourself.
Natalie Greenslade:Absolutely, and when you phone the GP, surgery I would always ask for do they have a menopause expert? Do they have someone that's had additional training in the menopause? Find out who that person is and ask to have an appointment with them. And, as I said, that's the important thing with the NICE guideline. So if you have a resistant GP that isn't willing to sort of acknowledge your symptoms and how debilitating they are for you, ask to speak to another GP, and the whole point of having those NICE guidelines is that you can sort of hold them up and say look, I know that antidepressants are not the first line of defense, if you like, I know they're not the first line of prescriptions. I want to have an open conversation about HRT or whatever else it might be cognitive behavioral therapy, et cetera. The other thing I also recommend is and I've got it available on my website and I know I think you've got access to it as well within City and Guild is a symptom tracker, and so what I would always say?
Natalie Greenslade:Say whether you're a male with a partner at home, print this off, write down all of the symptoms you're struggling with, rate them on a scale of one to five, one to ten, whatever you want as to how severe they are and how frequently they're impacting your life, how debilitating they are. Take that along with the nice guidelines and you can sit there and say this is the impact it's having on my life. What you don't want to do is go into that appointment. The GP say, oh okay, well, look, I'll tell you what. Go away for another month or so. Come back in a month's time, see how you're feeling. What you want to do is say, look, I've already done all of this. I can show you how difficult my life is at the moment. I want to have an open conversation. No-transcript education is really, really important for everybody within an organisation.
Bryony Kingsland:I think that's the best advice we can give is symptom trackers. Definitely use them. Be aware that your journey is completely and utterly individual and educate yourself. Three really, really clear points that I would say to everybody as part of a menopause journey for any individual. That's great.
Natalie Greenslade:Thanks very much Brilliant Thanks. If anyone is interested in getting more support, whether that be for a health condition or for perimenopause and menopause I do run group programs my Empowered Menopause Group Program. I'm just about to start one, but we will be running again in the new year. Then you can get in touch with me. Or if you think you need more one-to-one personalized support, or if you're an organisation that wants training for everybody within the organization to understand better about menopause and perimenopause, or if you want some health and wellbeing general talks as well, then you can find me at wwwgingergreennutritioncouk. I'm also on social media channels as well, so do come and say hi.
Bryony Kingsland:Thanks, Nat, Thanks so much for listening to today's conversation. Menopause in the workplace is an issue that's only going to grow as our workforce continues to age. But the good news is that by supporting employees through this stage of life, companies can keep their best people, close gender gaps and create healthier, more supportive work environments. The financial hit companies take when women leave the workforce due to menopause is real, but with the right policies in place, businesses can avoid those losses and help their employees thrive. We hope today's episode gave you some useful hints and tips to get started, along with great insights into how addressing menopause isn't just good for people, it's good for business. Stay tuned for more episodes where we tackle issues that impact employers and individuals alike, to help you navigate the UK skills challenges. Goodbye for now.
Natalie Greenslade:Thank you, bye, bye, bye.
Bryony Kingsland:Thank you for checking out this episode. Remember to share it with a colleague or friend, until next time.