City Voices: A City & Guilds Podcast
Welcome to City & Guilds’ podcast series. Each month, we’ll be exploring some of the issues raised in our recent research and across skills development.
City Voices: A City & Guilds Podcast
Celebrating a Decade of Transformative Training Excellence
Welcome to the second episode of the brand-new season of Foundation and Friends! This time, we dive into the world of learning and development with a special guest, Peter Coats, Group Protection Academy Manager at Legal & General. Hosted by Fenella Tallon, Chief Assessor for the Princess Royal Training Awards, this episode explores the transformative impact of exceptional training initiatives and what it takes to achieve award-winning L&D success.
Peter shares his journey into the L&D profession, his first encounter with the Princess Royal Training Awards, and how achieving the award elevated Legal & General’s learning culture and credibility within the business. Listeners will gain first-hand insight into how the award not only increased senior leadership buy-in but also paved the way for new and impactful training initiatives.
This episode is a must-listen for organisations considering submitting an application for the Princess Royal Training Awards. Fenella and Peter discuss the rigorous but rewarding application process, the invaluable feedback received—whether successful or not—and how being part of the PRTA alumni community opens doors to networking and professional growth.
If you’re looking for inspiration and practical advice on strengthening your organisation’s L&D strategy, this conversation is packed with valuable takeaways. Tune in now to hear real-world experiences from both an award recipient and an assessor, and learn how you can take your training initiatives to the next level!
key takeaways from the episode:
- Award-Winning Training Elevates Business Impact – Achieving the Princess Royal Training Award enhances an organisation’s learning culture, credibility, and senior leadership buy-in.
- The Application Process is a Learning Opportunity – Whether successful or not, the process provides invaluable feedback that helps organisations refine and improve their L&D strategies.
- Recognition Opens Doors – Being part of the PRTA alumni community offers networking opportunities and access to a wealth of shared expertise.
- Commitment to Learning Yields Results – Investing in high-quality training initiatives leads to tangible benefits, from employee engagement to business performance.
- Inspiration for Future Applicants – The episode offers practical insights and encouragement for organisations considering applying for the award.
For more episodes from the series click here.
Hi everybody and welcome to this second episode of the brand new season of our Foundation and Friends podcast. I'm Fenella Tallon, I'm the chief assessor for the Princess Royal Training Awards and I'm really delighted to be able to do this episodes. Over the next 12 months, we're going to dive into some inspiring stories from organisations who've transformed their culture or their people or their communities through innovative training, and I'm absolutely delighted today to be able to introduce Peter Coats, who is the Group Protection Protection Academy Manager at Legal General. So welcome, peter. How did you get into L&D and become an L&D professional?
Peter Coats:Hi, fen, great to be with you this afternoon. I got into L&D. I worked in the public sector for 30 years and I guess half of that time I was in a learning and development role in some way or another. I also seemed to get a habit of collecting training qualifications during that time as well, so I ended up with a degree in post compulsory education and, interestingly, started off with the City and Guilds NVQ. I then moved into the public sector, fen, in sort of 2013 and started working for Legal General. So I worked in our retail division. It employs the most number of people and it's the people, obviously, where learning and development comes in really important, and I got into quite a lot of leadership development. Obviously, there's a lot of managers in Legal General and customer experience training and, again, managing and developing some sort of fantastic learning professionals as well.
Fenella Tallon:Yeah, brilliant. So how did you first hear about the Princess Royal Training Awards and what sparked your interest in applying?
Peter Coats:So I guess it was about six or seven years ago that there was an area of the business which wasn't performing particularly well and I was asked to sort of introduce the concept of an academy and we were looking around to sort of try and get some profile and thinking about how we could make an impact with the market that we serve as well.
Peter Coats:Looking at different awards that we could consider and I went along to a workshop run by City Guilds. I was really inspired by the kind of like, the feeling and the attitude amongst the team about the nature of the awards, the fact that they were free to enter, the fact that it wasn't just one winner. You know you needed to meet the standard. And then when I looked at the standards, the quality of those hallmarks, I thought, hang on, this is everything right from the organisational requirement right the way through to the impact and, of course, excellent training as part of that. So I came back and spoke to a colleague of mine who had a talent development programme and I recognised that actually it was that programme that was really suitable for the Princess Royal Training Awards and therefore he and I got together, we wrote an application for that year's award and we submitted it, and then we were delighted to get a message from your good self and I believe you came along and that was the first time I met you.
Fenella Tallon:Brilliant. I remember that so well. You put on a really good session for myself and the city and girls ambassador, and actually yours was one of the first organizations that actually used what we're now very familiar with in terms of zoom and and teams. You actually had some of your learners who were remote and we had loads of people on the screen, which is the first time we'd ever seen this. And actually then when we came to COVID, that was really good experience because you had done that before and we'd kind of had experience. That was fantastic.
Fenella Tallon:And I think one of the things that stood out for me with the programme that you submitted. Again, it was a very specific program and you could really clearly define what your need was, and I think it was all about upskilling people who were on lower grades, who had the perception that they weren't able to progress, and it was just really well evidenced. And the other thing that was really excellent as well was that a senior manager was able to come in and say what the impact from the strategic level had been, and that's often one of the reasons why applications don't progress, because there isn't that link between L&D and the senior managers. I remember it so well. So what was the impact of receiving the award on LNG as an organisation, but also on yourself as an individual?
Peter Coats:I think from us from an organisational point of view, we got a lot of profile from that event and from achieving the standard and achieving the award and I think the impact was probably most with senior leaders and we found it easier to commission further leadership development training. In fact, as a direct result of that programme, we put together another award-winning programme, actually working with the Oxford Group using their Five Conversations programme, and I don't think we would have got the investment if we hadn't kind of really established our credibility that we can deliver. We thought very deeply about the impact measures that we wanted from that second programme prior to starting it. So we'd learnt that we really need to think about the end impact and what the organisation is trying to achieve, to have lots of conversations about that with senior leaders first to say, okay, well, this is what we're going to achieve, this is how we're going to measure it. Now judge us on what we do, which is exactly what we did with the Oxford group, and we had some absolutely phenomenal results. So I think from the organizational point of view, that was the impact from me.
Peter Coats:I joined the alumni, so all the award winners, as you know, join this fantastic group of L&D professionals, from small organizations to huge FTSE 100 companies like mine. But we've all got the same interest and we can exchange ideas and meet up, and I think part of one of our communities was on LinkedIn and I saw an advert on there for anybody that was interested in becoming an assessor for the Princess Royal Training Awards. What makes good training was something that was really important to me and I thought I'm going to throw my hat into the ring for that and I'm really delighted that I did, and that's when I became an assessor for the awards fence, so I find that that work very rewarding as well. So, personally, huge impact on me and organisationally, I think, a huge impact as well. Personally, huge impact on me and organisationally, I think, a huge impact as well.
Fenella Tallon:Well, we're delighted to have you on the team because I think you were one of perhaps the first of the alumni community that came on board as an assessor and, having seen it from the recipient side and then being involved in the alumni and then coming to see it from the assessor side, it was just so valuable for us because you knew all about it to start off with.
Peter Coats:So what was it like, though, for you?
Peter Coats:What surprised me, fen, was just the thoroughness of the process that the applicant doesn't see.
Peter Coats:So when I became an assessor, it was very clear to me that actually this was a very, very thorough process. Very clear to me that actually this was a very, very thorough process, and the other thing that I was really impressed with having put in award submissions before was the feedback. So, you know, for all the people that apply, there are quite a number that are unsuccessful, and I can remember putting in for some awards many, many years ago, and we got this very nice letter with like two sentences of feedback about things that we could possibly do better. What's great about the Princess Royal Training Awards is that we write two or three pages of excellent feedback, and what I get really excited about and I know you're the same, fen is the the fact that a lot of those people come back the next year and then they're successful. So, indirectly, we're helping UK PLC to improve the quality of the training that's being delivered out there, and I get huge satisfaction from from that for sure.
Fenella Tallon:No, absolutely. It's such a pleasure and a privilege, isn't it, to be able to really see into the L&D provision in the organisations and just see what a difference it's made.
Peter Coats:Yeah, and look, we've seen so many different organisations, haven't we? I think that's one of the other things that's so interesting about the awards is I can remember the Chinese language school with four employees, I think direct employees and four volunteers, right the way through to you know, you and I have both looked at the Royal Navy apprenticeship programme over the years as well. So right from the smallest organisation or maybe non-profit organisation right the way through to huge public sector or private organisations. So anyway, that's interesting chatting about me. Can I turn the tables on you, fenner? Tell us a little bit about your background.
Fenella Tallon:Well, I haven't been an L&D professional by any means.
Fenella Tallon:During, well, certainly, the start of my career, I started out in university recruitment and admissions and one of my first jobs was to encourage mature students to apply to university, and I had to overcome my fear to deliver a workshop to them, to people who are thinking of applying, and once I got over the terror of having to deliver in front of a group of people, I actually realized, oh, I really quite like doing this.
Fenella Tallon:And then later on I got the opportunity to set up my own consultancy, and then I was helping to deliver and organize training to upskill tutors in adult literacy and numeracy tutors in adult literacy and numeracy and so that was a really great opportunity to get involved in a big program that was being delivered and had lots and lots of different strands to it, and over the years, started delivering a bit more. And more recently I've become interested in mental health, because that's become such a big thing in organisations, and so I did some training to upskill myself and now I deliver mental health first aid. So, yeah, I think a lot of people involved in L&D come at it from something else.
Peter Coats:I completely agree and I think the work that you've been doing on mental health has been really interesting. That's great stuff. So it's the 10 year anniversary of the awards this year and you've been involved from the start, Fen. Would you say there's been any major changes over that 10 year period? Would?
Fenella Tallon:you say there's been any major changes over that 10 year period? Yeah, it's a great question. I think what we've tried to do over the years is to make sure we reflect what's happening in the L&D world and make sure we're as accessible as we can be to organisations coming through, to organisations coming through, and in the first couple of years we noticed that there were groups of employers who were putting in a training programme that they had devised and at the time they weren't eligible because we were just thinking, oh, it's going to be single organisations that are going to be putting in the applications, but actually these were really interesting. So, for example, we had I think it was a group of four or five hotels in Scotland and they wanted to put on some management development programme but they didn't really have the right kind of provider locally and they wanted something very bespoke for their hospitality setup, for their hospitality setup. So these hotels clubbed together and got a programme devised that would suit all of them and they delivered it to their employees. And so we changed the rules basically to allow them to be able to apply, and they were successful.
Fenella Tallon:And there have been loads of examples of employer-led group training programmes that have come through over the years. So organisations who have a base in the UK and Ireland but also who have a global offering to be able to perhaps recognise those ask them whether there's an appetite for this and to say, if yes, how might that work. And also to have the alumni community there to be able to ask is just great.
Peter Coats:Yeah, there always seems to be a restlessness with the City and Guilds team and, I think, with us as assessors to try and make the process as easy as possible whilst maintaining the standard process as easy as possible. Whilst maintaining the standard, Because we do recognise that you know, L&D professionals are hard working delivering their programmes and designing their programmes and actually to write an award submission is extra work. But it's making it as easy as possible, making the standards as straightforward as possible, and I know there's always been that kind of trying to catch people in approach rather than trying to catch people out. So we now offer that opportunity for pre-submission feedback. Out of all the programmes that you've seen in that 10 years, what are the ones that have stood out for you Fen?
Fenella Tallon:Yeah, there's quite a few actually, but in the early years, I think gamification was quite a new thing. So there was an application from Waitrose and they had developed, introduced this interesting kind of game around learning about stock control and the people who are taking part absolutely loved it and was sort of queuing up to get involved. And also we had an application that was around training staff on cruise ships to be able to manage situations where there might be polar bears. We hadn't seen anything like that before and I was lucky enough to be able to interview jim mayer from hx expeditions on the first episode of this podcast series about how they went about actually developing and delivering that training, because it was so innovative.
Peter Coats:The thing that really appealed to me in that learning was the creativity involved, where you know you make learning come alive by using practical simulation. So there was theory, but then there was a practical application where they had one of the instructors dressed up as a polar bear in a white suit, and they were using soft toy guns effectively, and in one situation they completely caught out the students because the polar bear, ie the instructor, was actually in a dip near the shoreline, where they wouldn't be expected to be, but absolutely where polar bears could be, and it was that. Oh yes, that's a really brilliant lesson that I've just learned, and there's no way that that would have had the same impact had it been just on a PowerPoint slide. Think about these things. It was the fact that they'd they'd created scenarios and they made the learning really experiential that took it to that next level, and that's what we're kind of looking for, isn't it in the PRTAs? Yeah, that was brilliant.
Peter Coats:I think the other application that I had Fen was around Balfour Beatty, a big construction company, and the thing that stood out for me in that application was the extent that they'd gone to to prove the impact. So this was about commercial decisions and making sure things were done according to the contract and the efficiencies were looked at to maximise the commercial return and what they'd done with all the delegates that had been through that training. They'd asked them to estimate the impact in terms of cost saving from what they'd learned on the program. So they then added all of this up and they'd come up with a very impressive figure, which was their kind, of their return on the investment that they put into training in the first place. So I think sometimes we forget that actually demonstrating the impact of training doesn't need to be beyond all reasonable doubt. This is what we're seeing in the staff survey scores, this is what we're seeing in the evaluation scores. But what is the actual impact?
Fenella Tallon:Exactly that, and it's really what have you got to show us? What were you trying to achieve and how do you know? You got there and one of the memorable programs that had come through from the third sector so this was Macmillan Caring, locally down in. They had got a really innovative way of using volunteers, because they offer end-of-life support and they also have some sort of daycare type activities as well, and they had an increase in referrals, but they hadn't had an increase in investment or in staff. So they had thought really hard, how are we going to tackle this?
Fenella Tallon:And so they got quite a big set of volunteers and they thought how can we really use these people's skills? Instead of getting them just to make tea and do the bingo which I'm sure was fun they actually trained them or used the skills that they already had to be able to deliver their service. So they had people mending wheelchairs, they had people actually delivering training and they hadn't needed to then take on other staff, which was great. And then the person who had delivered that training and devised that had gone on to another charity, the Ancient Technology Volunteers Centre, and again they'd used their volunteers to ensure that their centre stayed open and they were able to show that they were going to be closed down unless they were able to keep running at barely any cost. So that was a really lovely example of how training can actually ensure that an organisation stays open.
Peter Coats:Ensure that an organisation stays open. So, looking to the future, then, fen, what do you think the future might hold in the next 10 years? And what do you think is the role of the alumni, this ever-growing year-on-year group of excellent deliverers of learning and development? What's the future for them, do you think?
Fenella Tallon:We still want to celebrate excellent training and learning and development. What's the future for them? Do you think we still want to celebrate excellent training and learning and development and also encourage organisations who haven't taken part and, as I mentioned before, expanding it to include global organisations or organisations with an international reach the benefits of the alumni as well. We had a fantastic skill sharing event at the Guild Hall where the alumni community were invited and we had a really great take up and there was some great information sharing and learning from each other, because we're all beavering away in the background and it's great to be able to actually sort of lift our heads up and see the wider community and really learn from each other and to have organisations release people. To be able to do that is real testament that people think is worth it. One of the things we're trialling is a mentoring scheme, so members of the alumni community who want to mentor or coach an organisation to help them complete the application and to get the evidence together and all that sort of thing. We're trialling that.
Peter Coats:Yeah, I think you're right. The thing out of what you've said that really appeals to me is this kind of learning from each other, and I'd love to get together, particularly on a sector basis as well. How can we learn from each other and work together more effectively? That's certainly, I think, the direction that we'd be going in with the alumni Brilliant.
Fenella Tallon:Oh well, it's fantastic talking to you, peter. I think we could go on all afternoon, couldn't we?
Peter Coats:It's a pleasure talking to you, Fen.
Fenella Tallon:Great, thank you.