City Voices: A City & Guilds Podcast

In conversation with...Andrew Pakes MP (Bonus #LAB25 Episode)

• City & Guilds • Season 1 • Episode 5

Share episode

Send us a text

"Every single one of the government’s big ambitions – from building 1.5 million new homes to achieving net zero – has one thing in common: a skills shortage in this country." 

In this episode, Andrew Pakes MP explores the critical role of skills in driving national priorities – from building 1.5 million new homes and achieving net zero, to rebooting manufacturing and retrofitting the economy. He explains how devolution and metro mayors can match local talent to local economic needs, turbocharging growth and providing meaningful opportunities for young people.

Join Patrick Craven, Director of Policy and Strategic Partnerships at City & Guilds, for an insightful conversation with Andrew Pakes, MP for Peterborough and Chair of the All-Party Parliamentary Group on Apprenticeships, recorded live at the Labour Party Conference 2025. 

Listeners will gain insight into:

  • How local leadership and industrial strategy can close skills gaps and attract investment.
  • The evolution from blue-collar to green-collar roles, preparing the workforce for future technologies in construction, engineering, and green energy.
  • Innovative approaches to apprenticeships, including initiatives supporting young people, returners, and those in prison, offering pathways to employment and social mobility.
  • The importance of tailoring skills investment to local economies to deliver real impact and opportunity.
  • How aligning national ambitions with local delivery can create a virtuous cycle of growth, opportunity, and prosperity.

Whether you’re an employer, provider, policymaker, or simply passionate about the future of skills and work, this episode offers a compelling look at how apprenticeships, industrial strategy, and devolution can shape a stronger, more inclusive economy.

For further information about the material quoted in this episode visit:

For more episodes from the series click here.

Want some free merchandise? Simply write a review on your favourite podcast platform (such as Spotify or Apple Podcasts). Once you're done, confirm your details directly from your listening device and click 'Send us a text' above the episode summary to enter the prize draw.

Please note: This offer is available to UK residents only.

Andrew Pakes MP:

Well I think if you look at all of the things this government has in its sights about building a million and a half new homes, about meeting net zero, about retrofitting more homes and the economy, about getting Britain building again, about rebooting manufacturing this country. Every single one of them has in common the fact there's a skill shortage in this country.

Patrick Craven:

Thank you very much, Andrew, for for joining us today. I want to start off of a can just by asking some questions around Metro Mayors and the impact that they might have. And how do you think Metro mayors can break down the barriers to opportunities, provide that turbocharge for growth?

Andrew Pakes MP:

Yeah, I think two of the most important and powerful signals this new government's taken since its election has been around the need for industrial strategy with key sectors of the economy being part of that development of one industrial strategy looks like. And secondly, the commitment to devolution through powers to metro mares and devolution in a wider sense. I think putting the two things together gives us a real opportunity to turn the tide, both on that huge growth we saw in young people starting adulthood in unemployment, the 900,000 fig we talk about. Really important to someone like me representing the city which has one of the highest NEETs levels in the country. So I feel it very locally in terms of the economy and meeting young people and their expectations. But we know places like Peterborough, like many other cities around the country, will only grow if we get the skills that allows us to attract the investment we want into those areas. The way we do that is by having a national policy driven by the industrial strategy, but a local delivery unit which has the flexibility to adapt to that changing world. And MetroMares and devolution gives us a great opportunity to match those two things together.

Patrick Craven:

Yeah, absolutely. And I think picking up on that sort of observation about the value of that localization as well in terms of the sensitivity to need, how do you think we can sort of best bridge that, the skills and productivity gaps that might emerge when we start to realise actually where the opportunity is and where the young people or learners are?

Andrew Pakes MP:

I recently had the privilege to attend one of my, what's turning out to be my favourite days of the year, which was the Peterborough Telegraph Apprenticeship Awards. It was brilliant to present one of the awards and look out across a room full of apprentices, old and young, returners and career changers, as well as education providers and employers, and see the huge amount of talent and opportunity in the room. But one of the messages that came through around for whether it was apprentices accepting their awards or employers and providers, was the lack of focus and the lack of capacity in the system to give us that kind of real focus we need to tailor what is a very particular economy in Peterborough, and other places will have very particular strengths or or needs within it. I think devolution gives us the opportunity for mayors and others to take national ambition and match it with local need to deliver the kind of policies we need that can get things moving in places like Peterborough and other parts of the country.

Patrick Craven:

Yeah. And and just that ability to be much more, I guess, aware of what that connection is and what it could be. I mean, one of the things that struck me last time I was in the region was um some great investment being made into green skills and and green tech, etc., especially in the area. And and and what do you think that could mean in terms of being able to keep pace with the demand for jobs as the future?

Andrew Pakes MP:

I very much talk about somewhere like I represent in Peterborough, which has traditionally been blue-collar skilled jobs, into what would the jobs of the future be? And I think it's going from blue-collar to green collar, taking the brilliant work that Rachel Nichols of Peterborough College has done with the Green Technology Centre about adapting some almost traditional type apprenticeship frameworks and learning frameworks around mechanics, construction, heating and engineering, and giving them a modern twist so they can be ready for EV and it's needed to talk about heat pumps, looking at other technology. So we're not talking about green being something completely alien being plonked down in a place like mine or other parts. We're talking about great jobs and skills opportunities being future-proofed. Yeah. Technology and job applications change. People have still got the traditional skill set, which gives them a sense of pride and purpose and employability, but they can keep doing those jobs as the technology adapts and uh and and develops. No, it's a really great example, and I think that kind of sense of kind of an evolution of a labour profile, a labour market profile, uh, but fueled by the demand for the Yeah, look, and I think one of the greatest tragedies, or one of the most tragic things that happened in a local economy like Peterborough over the last decade was that for a city that was built on an economy of manufacturing and engineering, we actually saw the number of apprenticeship starts decline in the last decade. Uh and when you strip out some of the level seven and higher apprenticeships, level two, three, and four, the engine room, the decline was even greater. So I feel a very clear purpose locally, but also my contribution nationally to reverse that trend, start driving up apprenticeship starts and completions, working with government, working with the mayor and others about how we do that, things like move to functional English and mass to make it more flexible and easier for employers to get the workforce that they need, but also for people on an apprenticeship to get the opportunity to learn that trade. But also some big policy ideas, which to me demonstrate how mayors and government can work together. I'm really proud that Peterborough and Cambridgeshire is one of the pilots of the government's youth guarantee to get young people into earning and learning. And when you think that we've got one of the highest levels of NEETs in the country, it's very much needed. But we know the economy in Peterborough is very different to Cambridge. But working through the mayoral structure, the Labour government's invested now up to £10 million over these next two years to give that local flexibility. So we've got national funding, which I've been campaigning for now with a local delivery unit, which means we can get the skills investment in Peterborough to get people into earning and learning, but also in Wisbeach and Ealy and bits of Cambridge where there's different challenges, they've got something they can flex to what their economy needs in that locality as well.

Patrick Craven:

No, and I think it's a it's a really fascinating example in the country, isn't it, of where you've got quite a broad and polarised sort of like profile across those regions. Uh, and yet in some ways the only way that we can properly respond to that is to give some flexibility. So I guess um something else that um uh occurs to me, and I think you made a reference to it recently as well, uh, with regard to um the the bill going through around uh education in the the the prison sector, etc. And and some of the work that we're doing now is um allowing programmes to be put in place that allow transition, potentially much more positive transition into employment. Are they things as well that you you'd like to support and see more of?

Andrew Pakes MP:

I remain or I am more passionate today than when I started about increasing life chances and giving young people the chance to get on in life so they can contribute and find a sense of purpose. I think one of the drivers of this polarization or division we're seeing in society is that is that too many young people don't feel they can get on in life, that you can put all this effort in and work, but you don't get anywhere. Uh, nowhere is that louder than in the job market, where we've got too many low-paid, low-skilled jobs and people that don't have the chance to get on. But we're also seeing, as a prison city here in Peterborough, a probation system that's broken. Too many, particularly young people going into prison because they've been found guilty and it's right that justice is served. But also part of justice system is also about redemption and giving people opportunity again. Um we've got to break this cycle where we put people in prison to punish them, and then when they are let out, they too often end up going back into prison because they don't have the ability to navigate the world and get on. If we can put together more of these great examples we're seeing through some of the work the co-op groups doing with City and Guilds and others working with HMP High Point, where in the right circumstances, someone in prison can start their learning journey or apprenticeship in prison, but then have a connection point to an employer when they're released, that reduces the ability for them to fall through the gaps. None of this gets rid of the need for young people or people in prison to want to better themselves. So we've got to find give people the motivation to get on. But if people are willing to put in, we've got to be creating the systems that allow them to get on. And you know what? That's not just right for those individuals, for uh I say my sense of purpose, my faith, my values about redemption. It's also good for all of us because these young people who can be contributing to the economy, starting a family and getting on, but also paying taxes so that we can then fix public services in the NHS that people in Peterborough also want fixed.

Patrick Craven:

Yeah, yeah, and it becomes almost like a virtuous circle, doesn't it, in the sense of everybody wins, you know, without being too glib about it, everybody wins in that kind of scenario and that solution.

Andrew Pakes MP:

And I think there's some really great opportunities to think about this with the sentencing bill, the work that's going through the Department for Justice or the Justice Ministry around it how it looks at doing more community-based um sentences rather than people just being incarcerated. Clearly, there are you know very good reasons why people end up in prison and we should have those systems in there. But if we're going to have justice served in the community for community payback, for people being tagged and and working and doing voluntary experience in their community, let's also make sure they're learning skills so that once they've they've done their time, whether that's in prison or out, they've actually got a pathway to actually get on in life and contribute.

Patrick Craven:

Yeah, no, absolutely. And obviously apprenticeships plays a big part in many of those sort of solutions and equations. What do you think is it that sort of sets apprenticeships apart from other programs and other activity that makes them so vital? And as you said earlier on, about ensuring that they reach some of those lower levels and those entry point jobs as well.

Andrew Pakes MP:

Well, I think if you look at all of the things this government has in its sites about building a million and a half new homes, about meeting net zero, about retrofitting more homes in the economy, about getting Britain building again, about rebooting manufacturing this country, every single one of them has in common the fact there's a skills shortage in this country. And if we want to achieve those missions, every mission needs a people plan, and every people plan needs a skills plan so that we're trading people up to the end. There's no big lever in government you pull or switch, you flick on and off, which delivers a million and a half new homes. And that's where I think devolution of mayors come into as well. Each labour market will be slightly different in terms of where the shortages lie. So having that localization of approach is really important. We've got to be training more people than we'd ever done before. It's a national mission to not just get the system right, but to turbocharge it so it can really deliver on those things we need. And I think that sense in a place like mine, which has great industrial heritage, getting people into proper jobs, as my mum would call it, where people get a chance to earn and learn, get their hands dirty, uh, is brilliant. I you know, this last week I spent some time with some amazing young apprentices for Anglian Water at the water treatment work. Uh, one of them started with Anglian at 16, so I level two and worked through. One of them came a bit later after college doing a level four. These are amazing, great skilled jobs with huge opportunities. When you think about our infrastructure needs in a country, these are not jobs that are going to be replaced by robots or by A. These are proper industrial pride jobs which give people a chance to plan for a life of prosperity and going on and thinking about families and all the other things we do in our life when we're not working.

Patrick Craven:

Yeah, absolutely. Thank you so much, Andrew, for your time as well. I guess if I was to finish with with a question for you, it would be what are you looking forward to most out of the conference in terms of sort of topics that will be discussed?

Andrew Pakes MP:

I'm looking for a real sense of purpose, and I think we've already seen this with the Prime Minister's announcements around 10 new towns, because that has a huge implication for providing affordable social homes for people. But it goes to the skills. That's why I'm very passionate. I will continue to be an evangelist for skills throughout all of these debates. And I think there's a real reckoning in government. I think one of the most exciting things we've seen in recent months has been the move of skills and apprenticeships into DWP to realign the whole of government to a department of work, which actually is a department of opportunity next to it. So DWP isn't just about pensions and benefits, it's about opportunities, the ability to get on and giving people the skills so they can achieve things.

Patrick Craven:

Now, what a great thought to finish on. Thank you so much, uh Andrew, for your time as well.

Andrew Pakes MP:

Brilliant. Thank you.