When Service Becomes Identity and You Have to Walk Away – Kevin Schmiegel

Kevin Schmiegel founded Hiring Our Heroes and helped reshape veteran employment in America. At the height of its success, he walked away.

Behind the hiring fairs, White House partnerships, and corporate coalitions was a leader working 80-hour weeks and running on empty. Kevin shares what it cost to build a national movement and what happened after he left. Depression. Identity loss. A search for purpose beyond the title.

This episode is for leaders who have tied their identity to their mission. For founders who are exhausted but afraid to step back. For professionals navigating reinvention after success.

You’ll hear how Kevin rebuilt his life through the concept of military thriving, why he challenges the “broken veteran” narrative, and the practical framework he now uses to define purpose.

If you’ve ever wondered who you are without your role, this conversation will stay with you.

Enjoy!

Stay connected with Kevin Schmiegel
Website: https://zeromils.com
LinkedIn: https://www.linkedin.com/in/kevin-schmiegel-03523b8/
The Service Project: https://theserviceproject.substack.com/ 

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Transcript

Brian Aquart (00:00)
All right, welcome back. So our guest today is Kevin Schmiegel, retired Marine Corps Lieutenant Colonel and co-founder and CEO of ZeroMils a social impact organization committed to building thriving communities for veterans and military families. He's also a fellow presidential leadership scholar in the wonderful Class X. Kevin is best known as the founder of Hiring Our Heroes, a transformative national initiative that changed the conversation

around veteran employment in America. Under his leadership, what started as an annual seminar at the US Chamber of Commerce became a grassroots movement with more than 570 hiring fairs in all 50 states. They also had major media campaigns with NBC and the Today Show, and unprecedented collaboration across government, business, and nonprofit sectors. But behind the headlines is a story of burnout, sacrifice.

and what it takes to leave something you poured your life into. Kevin helped raise over a hundred million dollars for veteran causes across his career, testified before Congress and turned a once siloed issue into a national priority. His legacy, four million service members, veterans and families impacted and growing. Today, he opens up about identity, reinvention and the power of service, not just to your country.

but to your community and yourself. So Kevin, my PLS brother, welcome to why I left. How you doing, man?

Kevin Schmiegel (01:28)
I'm doing great. I'm so happy to join you, Brian. It's been a while, so.

Brian Aquart (01:31)
Yeah, definitely, man. So, you know, this has been a long time coming and I'm glad we were able to do this. And what I've loved about your story, just learning more about it is, you you spent over 20 years in the Marine Corps, transitioned into nonprofit leadership. What did the Marine Corps really instill in you that still shapes your leadership today?

Kevin Schmiegel (01:54)
You know, there's a common term in the Marine Corps, we talk about core values, honor, courage and commitment. And I think those core values have been kind of a benchmark for me, not just in uniform, but when I left the military. I would also say the Marine Corps really taught me the value of taking care of your people first and foremost. There's a book that I've read and it really

ran across the Marine Corps. It's called Leaders Eat Last. And we literally ate last at every meal from the most junior person to the most senior person. And sometimes that meant you didn't get anything to eat. But this idea of taking care of your people has really been something that I carried on outside of the Marine Corps. A couple of other things. There's a term that Marines use when you see them meet each other. They say semper fidelis. Semper fidelis means always faithful.

I think if you're around Marines and Marine veterans enough, you'll realize that there is this brotherhood, this sisterhood, this camaraderie, this fellowship that exists that we experienced at PLS too. And those are not just two words, they're actions. Like being always faithful, being Semper Fidelis means something to the very core of Marines. So when you think about honor, courage, commitment, when you think about people first, when you think about Semper Fidelis, those are just things that you take on after you leave the military.

Brian Aquart (03:02)
We think about honor, commitment. We think about people first. think about, I know it's those are just things that you take on after you

leave the military. No, don't doubt it. And what was your own experience of leaving the military like, emotionally and professionally? And did that moment spark the work that you're doing now?

Kevin Schmiegel (03:22)
absolutely. I use the word seamless. Almost to a point where I feel a little bit guilty that my transition was so easy. The truth is I had a mentor, a very high level person who I had a strong relationship with. And he introduced me to my first civilian boss. So literally on my last day in uniform, I'm walking down the hallway with him and you talking to Condoleezza Rice.

The next day I'm in a suit working as the chief of staff of the US Chamber of Commerce. And that was directly because of a relationship that I have with General Jim Jones, who I worked with at NATO, who I worked with on the peace process in the Middle East at the State Department. And he introduced me to Tom Donoghue. That is not the usual story for a lot of young people who are leaving the military or leaving college. So I recognized the value of relationships and I realized how fortunate

I was and am compared to a lot of other people that don't have those type of mentors that literally guide them along in that journey.

Brian Aquart (04:15)
Yeah. I'd love to talk a little bit more about, about hiring our heroes and some of the folks you mentioned. So many people see hiring our heroes as, an institution now, but few know, you know, it started with the small team and truthfully a bold idea, right? And so what, do you remember about those first days when truthfully it was still a gamble?

Kevin Schmiegel (04:37)
Yeah, I don't want this to come across the wrong way, but I don't think anyone really believed in us or the cause the way people think. At first, it wasn't widely accepted by the leadership at the chamber. And a lot of my close friends and colleagues who are outside the chamber in the private sector probably thought I was a little bit crazy or touched to think that we could start a movement like this when veteran unemployment was so high. It felt like every day we had to prove ourselves.

Brian Aquart (04:46)
Hmm.

Kevin Schmiegel (05:03)
Do you know what I mean? was a constant drag because you were trying to get people to believe in something that you knew needed to be done and could be done if you just really, really, really went after it. Listen, they gave me an office in the chamber, an eight by eight, literally a cube with no windows, no nothing, no budget. And I just went after it I had a big vision. I said we were going to do 100 hiring fairs. I had no team at the time. I had a part-time employee. Over the first five months, I went to 12.

Brian Aquart (05:28)
You

Kevin Schmiegel (05:32)
different big cities across the country. And I only had a person 20 hours a week, but fortunately an angel funder saw what I was doing. He saw us on the USS Intrepid in New York City. He saw us at Sony Studios in Los Angeles, California with Prince William and Kate, called me out to Minneapolis and dedicated and contributed a million dollars a year for three years to the program. That allowed me to hire the first seven people.

for Hiring Our Heroes. And listen, some people talk about me being the founder of Hiring Our Heroes. These people were the founders of Hiring Our Heroes. My team that we built with those first seven people were the core, the leaders that built a movement. And if I think about Ross Cohen, Laura Schmiegel, Brian Gettle, Noreen O'Neill, Cathy Pointon, Zoe Rand, Kim Morton, those are the founders of Hiring Our Heroes. Those are the people

And again, going back to what I said about being a Marine, you build a team, you take care of that team, and they will move mountains. And they did. So I look back at those days when no one believed in us, and we made them believe by proving every day that we were doing the right thing for the right reasons at the right time, and we created a movement.

Brian Aquart (06:43)
That's beautiful. You know, at a time when veteran employment was nearly 10%, you, like you mentioned, you helped create this movement that I think really reshaped public perception. So did you ever feel the weight of that responsibility and how did it change you as a leader, if at all?

Kevin Schmiegel (07:01)
I go back to a time when I was a Marine and I would talk to young Marines as they were transitioning out and recognizing that they had no earthly idea what they wanted to do when they left the military. So that seed was planted. And then in my first two years as the Chief of Staff for the US Chamber of Commerce, I heard from CEOs that said they wanted to hire veterans. Veteran employment was at 10 % nationally, 30 % for veterans under the age of 24. So there was this convergence of

Brian Aquart (07:10)
Thank

Kevin Schmiegel (07:25)
problem that needed to be addressed, something that I knew from my time as a Marine and something that I knew I connect with the biggest business federation in the world, that was a huge responsibility. And as a leader, changed my life forever. And not in the way that I think people would talk about, like I recognized that having purpose and serving others was part of who I am.

But the thing that really changed me was at the very first hiring fair, the very first event that we did in Chicago. And I had a few months to build up to that event on March 24th of 2011. In the context of what I just told you, Brian, no one believed in it. So I walked into this room and there were 110 major employers from the Chicago area. There were 1100 veterans from across the region, from across Illinois, from adjacent states.

important people at the national federal state local level came together. All that was great. And it was a very emotional time for me. And I could feel the weight lifting one event after the other. But on that day in Chicago, a young Marine sergeant who had been out for a year, unemployed for a year came up to me. I still get choked up thinking about it. And he said, sir, you changed my life today. I got a job. What that sergeant didn't realize is he changed my life that day.

Brian Aquart (08:31)
Sir, you changed my life today. I got the job. Wow.

Kevin Schmiegel (08:36)
By saying that, I was so driven to make sure that there wasn't another person like him in this country that would feel the same way he felt for a year. Not valued, know, work defines who we are in a lot of ways, right? So how do we identify ourselves after we leave the military? And this kid had done amazing things in Iraq, in Afghanistan, serving as an infantryman. And the only job offers he had for that first year was to be a security guard in a retail operation. So that was life-changing for me.

Brian Aquart (08:45)
you know, work, clients, are in a lot of ways, right? So, how do we identify ourselves after getting the military and just getting the amazing things?

the only job offer he had for that first year was to be a security guard. That was life changing for

me.

Kevin Schmiegel (09:05)
And

every time a young man or woman who was a veteran came up and said, sir, you changed my life today. That just added fuel to the fire.

Brian Aquart (09:13)
I love that. It's very symbolic of something we often talk about in PLS about building bridges. These aren't just you creating hiring events. You're actually building bridges between institutions, truthfully, that rarely talk to each other. You have the military, government, business, media, all those things. What do you think was the key to making these alliances work in such an effective way?

Kevin Schmiegel (09:35)
I think, ⁓

Being in the right place at the right time. So when I started hiring our heroes a month later, the White House started an initiative called Joining Forces. Michelle Obama, Jill Biden created an initiative from a public sector facing perspective, committing to getting veterans and military spouses meaningful employment. And I think this intersection between the public sector and the private sector, right, the White House and the U.S. Chamber of Commerce saying we're going to work together

really was a powerful thing. And as you know, from our time together at PLS, I really believe in the idea of abundance versus scarcity and the power of partnership. So I went out, in addition to working with the White House, we worked with JPMorgan Chase. They had a hundred K jobs mission for veterans. There was also ⁓ the American Legion. A lot of people don't know that I created a partnership with the American Legion, the Department of Veterans Affairs, the Department of Labor, and

And those partnerships from the public private nonprofit sector perspective is the way we create a change. We kept it really simple. We had a massive vision and we executed. And I think the biggest takeaway is we also built a community of community builders. So I mentioned my team, right? I mentioned those seven people. We grew that to 30, but it was 40 veterans and military spouses that were inside the biggest employers in America.

that put aside the competition and collaborated to build a community of community builders. Guys like Mike Kelly at USAA, Steve Robinson, an Army Ranger who passed away shortly after I started hiring our heroes at Prudential, Evan Guzman at Verizon. I can go on and on. Those 40 people, they worked for their companies, but they worked together to solve a problem. So when you have systemic issues in this country, the only way to solve them

is by the public, private, nonprofit sectors working together to create change. And that's really what I learned in that moment. Yeah, I was in the right place at the right time. I started something because I saw a problem, but then we went out and executed with the right partners all over the country.

Brian Aquart (11:28)
Yeah. And you know, earlier when we started this, I rattled off the numbers and really the legacy behind it. And truthfully, hiring our heroes became this nationally recognized force in veteran employment. But you ended up leaving, right? And so when, when did you know it was time to leave and how, hard was that decision personally?

Kevin Schmiegel (11:49)
I mean, I know this is a topic that I haven't talked about a lot publicly, but the truth is I was exhausted. I was exhausted physically, was exhausted mentally, I was exhausted emotionally. I was working 80 hours a week. I traveled 180 days a year for three years. And if I'm honest with everyone who's listening or watching, I was on the verge of a nervous breakdown. I mean, I couldn't sustain that. And I literally left.

in an unexpected way. A lot of people didn't know what happened to me. And that was hard for other people that were left behind to explain and really to cope with. But I had to look out for myself first and for my kids. And it was probably the hardest decision I ever made, but I made that decision out of necessity. I really, really was running myself into the ground. And when you get to that point, you have to make a decision that sometimes really difficult to do.

So I didn't want to leave, but I had to leave.

Brian Aquart (12:42)
Yeah, and I appreciate you opening up about that. On this show, we do talk openly and honestly about these things. a couple of seasons ago, I dedicated some time to mental health and things like that. And we had a lot of folks who really chimed in about how sometimes working in these spaces can be a lot mentally, physically, emotionally. And so you acknowledging that.

You just have no idea who that could help. And so I appreciate you uplifting that today. So you left and it still continues, right? So you helped build something that is truthfully continuing to thrive today. What was it like to watch it go on without you? And how did you come to peace with stepping away?

Kevin Schmiegel (13:24)
I mean, first of all, the continued impact is amazing to see and it makes me immensely proud. It'll always be a part of who I am. You can never remove that. Just like that sergeant saying, you changed his life, it changed my life. And I mean, I probably help five, 10, 15 veterans, military spouses, other people find a job each week by connecting them with other people. So I think that that part of it,

allows me to celebrate the million veterans and military spouses who have found meaningful employment through hiring our heroes in the decade, more than a decade after I left. And I think that's a great thing. to be honest, Brian, I don't think I ever really came to peace until I was part of PLS with you and 55 other brothers and sisters that helped me get through it. I think

I've always felt like I've had to prove myself since because there were questions in people's minds. And truth be told, I learned a lot of valuable lessons in the wake of that. And the truth is I didn't get better when I left. I actually got a lot worse. For six months, I spiraled into probably the worst state of mind and state of body that anyone could be in because I lost my purpose. I lost my tribe, connected community, the community of community builders that

I built something with my team. I lost my identity. I wasn't taking care of my health. In fact, I was in a worse state physically, mentally, spiritually, and emotionally. And for three years, I was in deep depression, in and out of hospitals. It was a real struggle for me. But if I look back at that, that was a journey that led me to do a lot of other things. ⁓

having to prove yourself over and over again because you have self doubts or because other people didn't know what really happened to you actually drove a lot of success and impact in two other nonprofits that I led and now with ZeroMils. So I don't question why those things happen. But the truth is I never really came to peace with it. I think when we were together at the end of our PLS, something really meaningful happened to me and I could now look forward to what I'm doing.

and let that part of my life go.

Brian Aquart (15:22)
Wow, I appreciate you sharing that. that is, yeah, that's deeply impactful, I think it is, closure is often fleeting, And so to find that, regardless of when it comes, it must be a freeing type of feeling. And so I'm glad to hear and see that you're moving forward with that. You mentioned the piece around

you nonprofits, you've helped lead a few nonprofits along the way. You've raised over $100 million throughout all these things. You know, is there a guiding principle that has really helped you navigate which causes to take on and when to step away?

Kevin Schmiegel (15:56)
Yeah, I'm sharing again a thing from presidential leadership scholars because sometimes when you get to my age at 58, you have this luxury of looking back retrospectively and recognizing things that we talk about our lives work. We talk about different things that we experience. And we actually did an exercise in the first module in Philadelphia that was life-changing for me. And I talked to people about it all the time.

and then look back at the decisions I made after I got out of the depression and then went back to nonprofit work and found my purpose again. And we did this thing called the hedgehog, right? We took this business concept that's based on Greek mythology that Jim Collins drew out in Good to Great and talks about this notion that when you start a business, when you start a nonprofit, when you start an enterprise, you want to think about three things with your team. What is our purpose? What are we the best in the world at?

And how can we make money or make an impact or both, depending on the type of enterprise you've run. And in that exercise that we did in PLS that first week, if you can remember, we applied that to ourselves as leaders, as individual leaders, and it was tweaked a little bit with those three circles on a piece of paper. Do you remember? What am I good at and what does my community need from me? And if I look back, it wasn't just about finding purpose again, it was looking at the time that I was

Brian Aquart (17:02)
I do, I do.

Kevin Schmiegel (17:13)
making decisions about what I wanted to do next. And I thoughtfully thought in the moment, what brings me joy? What am I good at? And what is my community? My community, the military and veteran connected family community, what do they need from me? Me too leading a scholarship foundation, need-based scholarship, post-secondary scholarships for military spouses and kids at a time where I could see that need for first-generation college students in the military community.

in a pathway to careers after I left Hiring Our Heroes. And then I went on to Operation Gratitude because I felt our community was divided more than ever by this civilian-military gap, civilian-service gap, where people didn't understand service. So I went to an organization that was a care package organization that said, you for your service, and transformed it into a community-building organization where people serve side by side. So we created understanding about the value of veterans in the workplace at Hiring Our Heroes.

we talked about the value of education and how military veterans, military spouses, military kids were great students and could contribute to society and the workforce. And then we went to Operation Gratitude with my team and we built a movement around bridging the civilian service divide by showing people that they shared this common passion, this common bond of service. And it wasn't about care packages and thank yous. So that hedgehog model has really been a life-changing

viewpoint, even now as I go forward and I encourage people like you, in PLS, young people I talk to every day, do the hedgehog. What brings you joy? What are you good at? And what does your community need from me? And I think I recognize again, because I have the wisdom of what I've done and what I want to do and you can look back. And I think that's the biggest takeaway. I always made the right decision and that's exactly what I did now with ZeroMils.

Brian Aquart (18:35)
Thank

Kevin Schmiegel (18:55)
I thought about it, I was in an organization, I said, okay, let's look at what brings you the most joy, what are you good at, and what does your community need from you now? And that's how ZeroMils was born too.

Brian Aquart (19:04)
Yeah, no, I love that. I want to ask you about ZeroMils. But before people are to be watching this, they're like, what? That guy's not 58. And I'm like, get out of here. so I will share with the audience that look, this man is drinking from the fountain of youth. OK, because 58, I don't know where, kudos to him and kudos to you. Yes, yes, it's the running for sure. Now, let's talk a little bit about ZeroMils. So now you're you're focused on helping orgs and military families truthfully thrive.

Kevin Schmiegel (19:11)
haha

It's the running. That's one thing we share in common too, it's running.

Brian Aquart (19:32)
And I love the whole military thriving slogan movement, everything it stands for. And so what makes this chapter feel different and what are you hoping to build this time around with ZeroMils?

Kevin Schmiegel (19:45)
Well, first of all, I would say it is the perfect hedgehog. Like you see the Venn diagram and the three circles. This is literally the convergence of my life's work in bridging the civilian service divide. And those three circles are completely aligned. What brings me joy? What am I good at? And what does my community need from me? And that's what really ZeroMils is all about. Our mission is to create military thriving cultures and communities. And this was in response to growing trends that

Brian Aquart (19:48)
Yeah.

Kevin Schmiegel (20:10)
I saw and my business partner, Paul Cucinotta retired Marine Colonel saw too, where everyone across the country was talking about organizations being military friendly. A proliferation of 45,000 military and veteran connected nonprofits across the country talking about veterans, military spouses and our families as if we were broken or barely surviving. When the truth is a vast majority of us

are thriving in the workplace as small business owners, as civic assets who volunteer and give back to the community. So we saw a problem. The problem was that we accepted as a community, companies, universities, nonprofits, governments, the Congress, the press, talking about our community in a way that we didn't believe. And we wanted to be seen and heard in a different way. So Hiring Our Heroes was a military friendly movement. We had to stop the bleeding. So we accepted employers saying,

Brian Aquart (20:50)
We didn't believe and we wanted to be seen.

Kevin Schmiegel (21:00)
they were being friendly to us. Well, unemployment for veterans is the lowest in 20 years. A lot of people don't know that, but we're still talking in ways that it is. So ZeroMils was founded in response to those trends. And it flies right in the face of military friendliness in the barely surviving narrative. And it says, you know what? We want to be seen and heard in a different way. We want to change the broken veteran narrative.

we want to inspire the next generation to serve. ZeroMils is an experiment. No one believes us now that we can do this. Just like they didn't believe that Hiring Our Heroes was the right thing to do or that the Chamber was the right organization to do it. I don't have the Chamber. I have five people on my team. But I didn't really have the Chamber when I started Hiring Our Heroes. No one believed it. So I have the courage of conviction

Brian Aquart (21:28)
That's right.

Kevin Schmiegel (21:46)
with my best friend and business partner who I've known for 30 years, with two military spouses, Navy spouses, on active duty, Monica Shea and Trish Bautista. And I have Tommy Jones, an Army veteran who served for 20 years, received three Bronze Stars, and went on to build the enterprise strategy for Verizon and Walmart before I got him to come to ZeroMils to create this movement. Just like those seven people I talked about at Hiring Our Heroes, I have five of them now.

Brian Aquart (22:09)
Right.

Kevin Schmiegel (22:10)
They're the founders of ZeroMils. It's not just me and Paul, Monica Trish, Tommy, they're founders too. And we are military thriving. Our company, our company is the best example of a culture that's building communities that are thriving. We live and breathe it every day.

Brian Aquart (22:26)
to hear that and that phrase that you mentioned that bridging the civilian service divide. Why do you think that divide persists and what are, truthfully, the human costs we don't often talk about because it exists?

Kevin Schmiegel (22:40)
Yeah, I often talk about this because the civilian military divide is not a lack of appreciation. I talked a little bit about Operation Gratitude and why I went to that organization. Saying thank you for your service is great, but that's just the start of a conversation. Bridging the civilian military or civilian service divide is about creating understanding and empathy. It's not about eliciting sympathy and pity. So my firm belief

is we bridge the civilian military divide in the workplace by creating understanding and empathy about the value of veterans and their service and how it translates to the workforce. At Operation Gratitude, we did the same thing in demonstrating that service leads to positive outcomes at the local level through community and bridge building. And I think at ZeroMils, we're trying to do the same thing in a much more holistic way. this is a core value.

My core value is that if people understand the value of service and the very fact that if you go in the military, you're thriving, that when you leave the military, you can contribute to society, to the workplace, to our communities in ways that people are not really accounting for. And when you build that understanding, it isn't about

thank you for your service anymore. It's about people really recognizing that the young men and women who go into our military leave better off than they were when they came in. And when they leave, they can be used as civic assets. They can give back. They can drive economies. They can help serve as catalysts for growth change and impact at the local level. And I think

It is the fundamental difference between what ZeroMils does and what everyone else is doing in the space. I call it positive disruption. Bridging the civilian military divide is not about creating sympathy and pity, it's about creating understanding and empathy.

Brian Aquart (24:23)
like that. You know, often the phrase of heroes is thrown around with veterans, but sometimes that label can really oversimplify their actual experience. How do you personally or with ZeroMils, how do you honor service while telling a bit more nuanced truths about the experience?

Kevin Schmiegel (24:43)
Yeah, first of all, I would say this idea of heroization, it's actually something that is being studied right now by a bunch of different research institutes, universities, and people talk about imposter syndrome. So when I started hiring our heroes, there was a proliferation of other nonprofits that use the word heroes. And I think we have to go away from that because it creates

challenges on both ends. First of all, employers, institutions can take advantage of a young service member because in their minds they can bring them in for less. I can't explain it better than that. There's an issue with that. The truth is service members, veterans are not a monolith. We're not all heroes. I'm not a hero. So I think the term is overused.

then I think it causes problems for a lot of young people that don't feel that that's who they are. And I think we should come off using that. When I started hiring our heroes on Employment was an issue, I used the term that I wanted to get people's attention. I'm not so sure it's the right term for us to use when we're trying to change narratives about ourselves. And I think we have to earn the title of veteran when we leave the military. We're not all heroes. A lot of us earn the title Marine, Soldier, Sailor, Airman when we go into the military. We work very hard to get those titles.

Brian Aquart (25:41)
and think we have an article titled.

Kevin Schmiegel (25:52)
But we shouldn't take the hero title. I don't think we should be first on to airplanes or get a special parking spot. I don't think it's the right thing. I think we're at the risk of alienating our own community from our civilian neighbors. If we continue to espouse this hero narrative, just like the broken veteran narrative, we're just people who are trying to make a difference just like you. And we have this opportunity to serve. We should continue to serve and earn the title veteran, not hero.

Brian Aquart (25:53)
We have taken this year off.

Yeah.

Yeah. That makes sense. You know, now you're a father of five, obviously your mission is very strong as a CEO of ZeroMils How have you wrestled with sacrifice, not just in war, but in work and family? And what have you learned about this work-life integration?

Kevin Schmiegel (26:41)
I guess I would start by saying I haven't done it really well. I made about, you know, working myself into the ground. I'm at the risk of doing that wherever I go. I mean, there are certain causes that I wouldn't take on like veteran suicide because it's really close to me. If I took that on, I'd be working 24 seven trying to help people like that young sergeant who was finding employment. It's a much more serious issue. I'm trying to address it a different way by working with a collective of nonprofits who

are military thriving. In terms of the hedgehog, always do it based on work focus. I'm never thinking about my family, my five kids, my beautiful wife, Laura. I'm just lucky to be surrounded by people who understand who I am, that work is my life. And they saw me suffer without purpose. So they're supportive of me finding work-life balance by

by working and finding purpose. And it's just part of who I am. Laura and I got married almost over nine years ago. on our 10th year here and she's my soulmate. So I also have a business partner who gets me too and understands that I've always had something to prove because of what happened to me after I left Hiring Our Heroes. But they most of all understand that purpose, making a difference, changing people's lives is just who I am and I have to do it. My five kids get it too.

Like they understand and they don't want to see me go back to where I was before. So they know the signs too. They know when I'm tired, when I'm not getting sleep. They know when I'm not taking care of my health. So they're there. The two things that I think I would share with people is I know I have to do better. The one way I can do better is being present when I'm present. So be where your feet are is what I say. And listen, I'm always, like you and I, we love our work. We're always on our phones.

Brian Aquart (27:59)
That's good. ⁓

there. We're open on our

phones. We're always trying to communicate things with other people to create change, tell stories. But there is a time when we're at the dinner table. When you're on a boat with your family, you're telling us something about where you have to go, we further way.

Kevin Schmiegel (28:19)
We're always trying to communicate things to other people to create change and tell stories. But there is a time when you're at dinner, when you're on a boat with your family, when you're going to a sporting event where you have to put your phone away and you have to be

present. So I'm not present as much as I should be. I still travel a lot. I'm all over the country. I'm part of PLS that just added to everything. But Laura knew that I needed that. My kids knew that I needed all of you. And they knew that I needed to go to the next level to create change. It's just who I am.

You tell me an idea and I'll think of something big that this country needs to do and want to be a part of it. That's just who I am. But I will tell everyone who's listening, you can't let that be the only thing in your lives. The way to find balance is to make sure that you shut down when you are supposed to shut down and not let work consume you.

Brian Aquart (29:00)
you

Mm-hmm.

That makes a lot of sense. That's a perfect segue into some of your own personal lessons learned, right? And so we've talked a lot about scaling impact, raising funds, leading change, but what's one leadership mistake that you've made that really reshaped how you lead today?

Kevin Schmiegel (29:25)
I didn't make any mistakes. What are you

talking about? No, I actually think it probably comes out when people are listening to me. I think I recognized over time that not everyone believes with the same intensity, the same passion and the same purpose that I have. I think sometimes my passion is mistaken for other things overselling. Like I have such a...

Brian Aquart (29:36)
Mm.

Kevin Schmiegel (29:44)
conviction to get people to believe in the same way and not everyone is going to believe what you're doing in the same way. And I think that set me back. I can't help it. That is the authentic me. I have so much intensity, so much passion and purpose. comes out in every phone call, every Zoom meeting, every face-to-face. I mean, you saw it at PLS. And until I was comfortable with that audience,

Brian Aquart (29:59)
Yeah.

Kevin Schmiegel (30:06)
Like I felt like I had something to prove and I wanted them to believe that service is the common bond that all Americans share, that we can create this movement together as a community of community builders that are creating change. It doesn't have to be that way for everyone. And it won't be that way for everyone. The problem is I can't change and I'm not going to change. And we had a great speaker, if you remember in module four in ⁓ Austin, and she talked about authenticity.

Brian Aquart (30:29)
Awesome. Yes,

Kevin Schmiegel (30:32)
She's a president of HBCU. yeah, Barbara

Brian Aquart (30:34)
Yes, Marva. Yeah, it Marva. Yeah.

Kevin Schmiegel (30:37)
talked about, hey, I am who I am. 50 % of the people might love me, 50 % of the people might hate me, but I'm not changing who I am. And every success that I've had, this not a great trait of having to want to prove myself after a big setback or failure, but this intensity, this passion and purpose is who I am. And it's led to great success. It's led to me doing

leading three different nonprofits that impacted four million service members, veterans and family raised $100 million. ZeroMils, we've raised more than $60 million now for 17 different nonprofits. And that's all because of intensity, passion, and purpose. So I know it's a mistake that I have, not a mistake in that I want to solve for it, but it's something that I can do better. It's to my point about finding work-life balance too.

Brian Aquart (31:13)
Right, right.

Kevin Schmiegel (31:23)
These are things that wax and wane, right? These are the things that you're grappling with. So when I'm on calls now with people, I'll try to reel myself in and

talk less and listen more. And all the things that we learned as presidential leadership scholars, like that was invaluable and we can all do better. So I think it's recognizing these things, but not changing yourself authentically. I can do better. And there'll be situations where that will make a difference because now I'm more self-conscious about those things and I'm trying to improve. I'm not going to change who I am.

Brian Aquart (31:37)
down.

Kevin Schmiegel (31:52)
But if I could do one thing differently, would be to reel it back enough so that people don't mistake my passion, my intensity and purpose for something that's not there. I'm not trying to get them to do something because it's so important just to me. I'm trying to get them to do it because I think it's important for our country or for our community. Yeah.

Brian Aquart (32:06)
Yeah, I

like that. You know, I love that self-reflection and self-awareness. do you think, you know, one of the questions I have is around like, what's one thing you learned most about yourself throughout this process? Would you say that was it or something different?

Kevin Schmiegel (32:23)
I think it's I must serve. I don't even know how to say it other than that. It's in my DNA. I think it goes back to that story I share where I spiraled after I left Hiring Our Heroes and thought it was the best thing I could do, it was the worst thing I could possibly do. I had to do it, but I didn't really realize how much service I overindex on purpose and wanting to serve other people. And even this campaign that we just did where we say we are all called to serve in different ways.

Like I've been called to serve in different ways. I don't know where this path is going to lead me. The summer of 67 was actually named on the fact that I was born in 1967 to two parents who led me in the pathway of serve. Everyone thinks that I served because my dad was a Marine too. I served just as much because my mom was a very engaged member of the Catholic church. I used to serve in food banks at the community level cleaning up.

Brian Aquart (33:05)
Mm.

Kevin Schmiegel (33:16)
parks and doing things with my mom. So my mom had just as much to do with it as anyone else, but if I had one thing that I've learned over time is that I must serve and it doesn't really matter like what I'm doing in life. I don't care how much I get paid. I don't care what my title is. All I care about is finding purpose and serving and giving back.

Brian Aquart (33:33)
love that. And that that connection of not only purpose, but also service, I think is something that you and I really bonded on from the jump like right away. So I appreciate you acknowledging that. You you dropped a lot of gems here, but I want to, you know, have some pointed questions around advice, right? And so for someone who's going to be transitioning from a life of service, or even just pivoting careers, what's the first thing they should focus on to regain purpose?

Kevin Schmiegel (34:00)
I'm going to take a liberty here and ask you if I could share two things. First, I'll be obvious to people that I was going to say this, but do the hedgehog exercise yourself. Ask yourself the three questions. What brings you joy? What are you good at? And what does your community need from you? You can certainly say, how can I make money or how can I make a greater impact? But if you really want to find that work-life balance, try to do it not only with what you want to do professionally, but what you want to do personally. What brings me joy? What am I good at?

What does my community need from me? And then the second thing is we modeled military thriving, but the concepts of the five things that veterans, military spouses, and our families need to thrive apply to everyone. So write these five things down in addition to those three questions. Do you have these five things in your life? These five things, meaningful employment that could be through small business ownership too. That is not the only thing that defines us.

Put that aside, we're only supposed to work eight hours a day. So what are we doing with the other eight hours outside of sleeping eight hours? Hopefully everyone is. What are the other four things you need to thrive? A sense of purpose through service, continued service, if you're a veteran, a connected community or a tribe. If you don't have that connection with other people in a community, a tribe, like people that, like I was when I was a Marine, then you're going to feel alone and isolated. Health, physical, mental, spiritual, emotional.

Good physical health leads good mental health. Both of those lead to good emotional and spiritual health. And then the last thing I call the kit bag. What are those things you can do on a day-to-day basis outside of work to constantly seek self-improvement? How do you educate yourself more? Like we did at PLS. Like it's an acknowledgement that two people on this call and the 55 other people we serve with at PLS knew that they could always be better as leaders. They sought self-improvement. They filled the...

Brian Aquart (35:40)
Right. They

Kevin Schmiegel (35:42)
Kit bag up, trainings, certifications, having a mentor, being a mentor. These are things that complement the other four things in the kit bag. So I would ask people to think about those three questions, them down. And in every year,

Brian Aquart (35:42)
still have to pick back up. Trainings, certifications, having a mentor, being a mentor. These are things that complement the other four things. So I would ask people to think about those three questions right now. Every year.

Kevin Schmiegel (35:57)
go back, reassess, are you getting those three things? Are you realizing joy? Are you doing what you're the best in the world at? And are you addressing something your community needs from you?

and that you need from yourself. Like, it's not just about what you're doing for other people. And those five things, I'm so tired that everyone talks about the first thing. I mean, you think about why we leave organizations, it's because we don't have the other four things, That's it.

Brian Aquart (36:17)
I mean, you think about why we need organizations. You don't have the other choice. Exactly. You know, my

mind is churning. So yes, yes. Yeah, I think that's beautiful. And it's so important, because a lot of times we aren't taking enough time to sit back and recognize that. Right. We think because we have meaningful employment, those other four things are magically going to come. But you actually need to.

Kevin Schmiegel (36:27)
Yeah.

Brian Aquart (36:44)
work on all of them, right? And so I'm glad that you raised that.

Kevin Schmiegel (36:49)
Listen, I didn't start this company because I was thriving. Like, I'm not looking, hey, ZeroMils, military thriving, look at us, we're successful small business owners. I'm saying there was a time in my life where I was barely surviving because I didn't have these five things. And I don't want anyone to ever face that same circumstance again. And if they are, that struggle turns into strength. That trial turns into triumph. That challenge turns into an opportunity to grow, to be more resilient.

and not to let that struggle define you. So military thriving is not about, look at us, we're successful. It's about we in your shoes, we learn these five things and we want to change your trajectory. And we want companies, organizations, communities to recognize that to drive outcomes for your organizations or for your regions of the country that want to grow, you need to take care of your people and give them those five things.

Brian Aquart (37:23)
Yes.

Absolutely. And you you mentioned the piece around mental health, think is super important. Staying and hiring for our heroes came at a cost physically and mentally. So what were some of the signs that you were ignoring at the time? And then what's the advice you have for leaders who also may be pushing themselves too hard in the name of purpose once they find it?

Kevin Schmiegel (38:00)
Yeah, I think it's really easy to put yourself in this mindset. When you're in a moment where someone comes up and they say they changed your life, you can instantly be drawn to wanting to do that more and more. It's contagious. Like, making a difference, helping someone find a job is transformative for them and for you because giving back and serving other people, you have this response that makes you feel good about serving other people.

I think that that response causes this cycle where you don't find work-life balance and you drive yourself harder and harder to know your limits. And the real signs are you have no balance. Like I was working 80 hours a week. That is not hyperbole. Like I was working every weekend. I remember my son, my oldest son saying to me, it's okay, dad. Like I missed his birthday. I didn't even know.

Like, right, and him saying, it's okay, I know you're making a difference. That's not right. You have to know your limits. Sleep is a huge thing. not getting, surprisingly, even though you're working harder and harder and harder, you get less rest because your mind is not resting. So I think the number one takeaway is if you don't take care of yourself, you won't be able to create the change that you want to make. Like, that's the way I always talk to people now is I mentor.

60, 70 nonprofit leaders outside of the work that we do. I text them, I message them, I ask them if they're taking care of themselves. These are extraordinary people. We did the same thing for each other at the Presidential Leadership Scholars. I remember people coming up to me during a module and say, what are you doing for yourself? That's the type of leadership that we all have to take on. So the reality is if you don't take care of yourself, whoever you are, you're not Superman or Superwoman. Like you have to...

Brian Aquart (39:22)
you

tests.

Kevin Schmiegel (39:40)
You have to take a step back and take care of yourself so you can create the change that you're trying to create.

Brian Aquart (39:45)
I love that. And, now looking forward, you know, look, we, just came off of this amazing experience with, with PLS and outside of, you know, maybe the hedgehog thing, right. But what are, what learnings do you think from PLS from our PLS experience? Do you think you're going to impact you the most as you look forward to the future?

Kevin Schmiegel (40:04)
I think what you just said is what I learned, the look forward piece. on our very last day together, something happened in that room. Ironically in the room that I consider the birthplace of Hiring Our Heroes, the Lee Anderson Veterans Center. And you remember it because you were there with me and you know what happened and it was a wave of emotions for me. And you know why I was feeling what I was feeling and why.

But was when one of our 57 classmates stood up and said, I want to recognize what Kevin Schmiegel did. In that moment, you remember what it felt like. And in that room with 56 brothers and sisters, they knew why I left. They understood that. And everyone stood up with Derek Brown and clapped and made me realize it doesn't matter what I did in the past. It's what I'm doing going forward with you.

Brian Aquart (40:48)
Alright.

Alright.

Kevin Schmiegel (40:48)
with you and

I don't have to look at what I did and want to have to prove myself anymore. That's what I learned. And I have so much more to give. I have so much more to do. What I did at Hiring Our Heroes, what I did at Thanks USA, what I did at Operation Gratitude, what I did at ZeroMils, even what I'm doing, I have lot more to give. And that's because of people like you showing me that never look back, look forward to what you can do together with us. That's what I learned. And with the 57 of us, we can do anything.

Brian Aquart (40:56)
have so much more to give. have so much more to do. What I did at Hire and Rehearsal, what I did at Thanks USA, what I did at Operation Barrier 2, what I did at ZeroMils.

Yeah. And the only way to bring America back to what was is through service, by serving together.

Kevin Schmiegel (41:17)
We can do anything we set our mind to in the middle of what I think is one of the most challenging times in our nation's history. That is a true statement. And the only way, the only way to bring America back to what it was is through service, by serving together.

That is the truth. That is the antidote to what's ailing America. Because when people come together in service, you saw it at PLS, we were all serving in different ways, all of us. But when we came together, every race,

Brian Aquart (41:33)
That is the truth. That is the tenet of what's going on. Because when people come together in service, you saw it at BLS. We're all serving in different ways. All of us. But when we came together...

Kevin Schmiegel (41:46)
every religion, every ethnicity, every politic. When we came together in service, all those things were left behind because we realized we shared more in common than the differences that we have. So because of you, because of you and why I left and our other 55 classmates, I am starting a sub stack called The Service Project. I'm going to have a podcast because you inspired me and you got me to say, don't look back. This is just the beginning.

Brian Aquart (41:49)
and the differences that we have. So because of you, because of you.

Kevin Schmiegel (42:12)
You're just getting started. Even at 58, you're an old guy, but go after it. You have a lot more in the tank.

Brian Aquart (42:18)
That's right. And I love that. And I remember that moment very vividly. Huge shout to Derek for doing that. And yeah, I'm glad that that resonated with you because it is about moving forward, right? We've all had our ups and downs. Some of us still living in them, right?

It is important to always, always talk about keeping our, keeping your eyes on the prize and that prize is ahead, not behind us. So, ⁓ shout to you for, for recognizing that. we'd love to flip the mic now and ask you, well, what's one question that I can hopefully answer, today.

Kevin Schmiegel (42:42)
Amen.

I don't think this is going to come as any surprise to you. I'm going to go back to the hedgehog and I'm going to ask you a simple question because I actually think it's pretty clear what brings you joy and what you're really, really good at. This is a testament to that. It's right here, right now. This I can see. I can see in your eyes when you talked about why I left, when you asked me to come on the show and share my own story.

Brian Aquart (42:54)
Okay.

Kevin Schmiegel (43:17)
I know this is what brings you joy and what you're good at, but I'm going to ask you a much harder question. What is our country? What is our community? And what is your fellow neighbor, your brother and sister to your left and right need from Brian Aquart?

Brian Aquart (43:33)
That's a really good question.

So as you know, one of the things that I'm, one of the themes that I'm often talking about is this theme of humanity. And PLS really brought a lot out of that for me. I've been kind of going through a lot of things that really have solidified what humanity means to me. And what I think like a fellow neighbor would need for me and truthfully we need from each other is that

In these times, people aren't truly recognizing each other's humanity enough. And that's dangerous, And we can go down a whole bunch of rabbit holes as to why that's dangerous. But I think on, on, you know, keeping a high level, think recognizing someone else's humanity allows you to hopefully see things from their point of view. It allows you to.

You know, people always talk about put yourself, you know, how would you put yourself in their shoes? And I think that that that's important, right? there's a lot going on right now, economically, financially, all these things. And at times when people don't see each other's humanity, they often say things that they may not mean, but they may impact folks in a way that could be very detrimental, right? You just never know what some people are going through.

through my experience with not only the show, but just life in general. don't know what it is, you in my past, I've always like supported clients and I've done all these other things, but something about it, are, you know, people like to tell me things, right? And like tell me stuff about things that are happening in their lives. And I tried my best to, you know, direct in the right way, just offer an ear, a shoulder to lean on. But one of the things that has taught me is that just like, man, you just never know.

You just never know what some people are going through at their jobs, at their homes, whatever. And I think that is what hopefully I can give to my neighbor, right? And hopefully that then that inspires them to give the same to their neighbor because seeing each other's humanity is so important. And I think that's that, that is a sword I I'll I'll die on because that just means a lot to me. And I think

We need more of it, especially now.

Kevin Schmiegel (45:42)
And then I think, you know, my mother taught me the golden rule, which is to treat your neighbor how you'd like to be treated. And empathy, walking in someone else's shoes is so important. And I think if we do that, and I think you allow people opportunities to do that through why I left. By giving people the opportunity to tell stories, it encourages people to kind of walk in their shoes and see them in a different light. I mean, there are...

remarkable human beings walking among us. And I think their stories need to be told. And that's the best way for us to kind of look at other people and then reflect. I think it goes back to this idea that service is something that we all share. It's a common bond. And when we recognize that we have these things that make us more alike than different, then we recognize people in different ways too. So I really enjoyed talking to you about this and getting to know you better through this process as well. So thanks for the opportunity again, Brian.

Brian Aquart (46:33)
Yeah,

of course, man. And I just want to thank you for coming on the show to be an open about all of this, that specific, you that point in your life. Just I'm really honored that you came to really talk about that. Where can our listeners find and support you, the work you're doing personally and also with ZeroMils?

Kevin Schmiegel (46:51)
Well, ZeroMils is simple. It's our website at zeromils.com. We have an incredible marketing and creative team that's built out of a really beautiful website. And it really describes our mission really well. For me personally, as I start this passion project called the Service Project, I'm going to be going around the country like I was in Minneapolis last week and really highlighting this idea that service leads to positive outcomes so that young people are inspired to serve too.

If people are interested in that concept, they can check out the Substack. Hopefully I'll learn more and more from you before I launch the podcast part of it. think I'm a little bit apprehensive about it just because I haven't done it before to great effect. again, I'm learning from you. The incredible preparation that you put in for these things comes through. It's pretty remarkable. I know how much time it takes, yeah, those would be the two things, zeromils.com and then the service project where there'd be the two things that people can kind of follow along.

Brian Aquart (47:43)
Awesome, awesome. Well, good thing you know a guy who's got a show. So I'm always happy to help. Well, I want to thank you for that, that info. And look, that'll do it for today's episode. Again, I want to thank Kevin Schmiegel for joining me today. Hope you all got a lot out of this. I'll share all of his information on ZeroMils, as well as the new substack in our show notes. And I hope you all have a great week. Remember service is important. And as is our humanity.

Kevin Schmiegel (47:49)
Awesome.

Brian Aquart (48:09)
and definitely we will see you all next time. Kevin, thank you so much, man.

Kevin Schmiegel (48:13)
Thanks Brian, thanks everyone.