Leaving the Newsroom to Reclaim Alignment & Identity - Aundrea Cline-Thomas

Aundrea Cline-Thomas spent 15 years as an Emmy-winning journalist in top markets like New York and Philadelphia before making the decision to walk away. Because she realized she was operating far below her full capacity.

In this episode, Aundrea shares what led to that realization, the internal conflict of leaving something she worked so hard for, and how she approached building a new path through entrepreneurship. From financial preparation to redefining identity beyond a job title, this is a grounded look at what real career transitions require.

This conversation is for anyone questioning whether success still fits, navigating misalignment, or thinking about what comes next. It’s not about quitting. It’s about clarity, strategy, and choosing differently.

Enjoy!

Stay connected with Aundrea Cline-Thomas
Website: https://aundreact.com/mountain-court-media/
LinkedIn: https://www.linkedin.com/in/aundreact/

The Next Nuggets Newsletter: https://aundreact.com/NEWSLETTER/

The Next Best Thing Podcast: https://www.youtube.com/channel/UCFkxUkBZcqCcmc9T5heyg9w

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Transcript

Brian Aquart (00:00)
Hello, and thanks for tuning in to this episode of Why I Left. In today's episode, I'm joined by Aundrea Cline-Thomas founder and CEO of Mountain Court Media. She transitioned from a successful, award-winning journalism career into entrepreneurship and is redefining success on her terms. She's mastered the art of storytelling, and not just for brands or audiences, but for herself. If you've ever questioned whether your career reflects your values,

or whether you are truly seen in the work you do, this conversation is exactly for you. Let's go check it out.

Brian Aquart (00:33)
All right, welcome back. So our guest today is Aundrea Cline-Thomas, a three time Emmy award winning journalist, media strategist, and the founder of Mountain Court Media, a firm dedicated to helping leaders and organizations tell authentic stories that matter. After 15 plus years as a reporter and anchor in top markets like New York and Philadelphia, Aundrea stepped away from the newsroom to build a career that honors her identity.

values and ancestral legacy. She's also the host of the Next Best Thing podcast where she explores career reinvention, something we know a lot about here, with some of today's most influential voices. Today she joins us to talk about navigating systems that weren't truly built for us and creating something better on your own terms. So Andrea, welcome to Why I Left. How you doing today?

Aundrea Cline-Thomas (01:23)
fantastic. Thank you so much for having me.

Brian Aquart (01:25)
It is great to be with you. And I just always love to give a shout out to how we even got connected. So huge shout to Paula Vasan out there who connected us on that glorious platform of LinkedIn. I am not sponsored by them at all, but most of my guests come from LinkedIn. so love to get, to give a shout. having the audience get to know you a little better. You you grew up in Maryland.

Aundrea Cline-Thomas (01:42)
Yes, that's such great people though.

Brian Aquart (01:49)
but you have roots in Sierra Leone. And so what parts of your upbringing shaped your approach to storytelling and identity?

Aundrea Cline-Thomas (01:58)
All of it because I was straddling two different worlds. Both of my parents are from Sierra Leone, which is in West Africa, and I spent most of my life going there every other year. So going to grandma's house was going to Africa. Like it just was part of my world. And so it just heightened my fascination with how do people live, you know, understanding politics and how politics affects our lives because they had a civil war when I was little and that.

affected my family. So I understood intricately how government impacts your life. Just getting to see different cultures. Even in the DC area where I grew up, there was a community, I was really raised by the community. really, you know, when they say child is raised by the village, that was my life. So when my parents came to the States, they had family, a little bit of family, but really a broader community of friends.

And I was raised in that broader community of friends and family where you don't know everyone's auntie and uncle, grandma, grandpa. You don't know who's actually blood. ⁓ And so I was just very much straddling two different worlds my whole life. But it helped me understand narrative development because when America was telling me something about myself, I always had a counter narrative to be rooted in who I truly am.

Brian Aquart (02:57)
Right.

a lot of sense. And before launching Mountain Court Media, you had this 15-year career in journalism. So what first drew you to broadcast news and when did it start to feel that something was missing?

Aundrea Cline-Thomas (03:22)
Yes.

So when I was 17 years old is when I decided to be an on air reporter. I did a program at the American University in DC and it just mixed everything I loved getting to interview people, my curiosity about how people lived and my ability to just see people from all walks of life and like spend time with them. So that's what kind of got me into journalism and really wanting to hold the powerful to account.

That never left. I left the traditional media space, but that desire has never left me because it's the core of who I am. But in terms of how journalism functions, in terms of the stress on your life and the commitment you have to make, it's a 24-7 job. It's not even a job or career, it's a lifestyle. As you see, the media industry right now is collapsing.

So I just saw the writing on the wall and I'm always somebody who wants to give myself opportunities for growth. More platforms were emerging and you broadcast was not adapting to these new platforms fast enough. And I was interested in how can I tell stories on social? How can I tell stories on streaming? How can I tell stories through podcasting? But there was just no opportunity there to satiate.

all of those desires. And so instead of staying in a place that I saw constricting, I wanted to give myself an opportunity for more growth. And so then I transitioned away from the traditional media environment.

Brian Aquart (05:00)
I love that. so, you leave this visible role and you, know, you were in top tier media markets, right? You were in NYC, you're in Philly, you know, so what, what was the pivotal moment that made you say, you know, it's time to go.

Aundrea Cline-Thomas (05:12)
Gosh, it just was in my gut. You I think everybody knows, you know, your mind, can talk yourself out of a lot, right? But your gut never lies. Your energy never lies. And it just became harder and harder to go to work every single day. I worked in New York City during the pandemic. So it was the epicenter of the epicenter of the pandemic. So when so many people were home, I was out in the streets with a mask, with a mic on a like,

on this extender so we could have social distancing asking people. This is while we're hearing sirens in the streets and refrigerator trucks at hospitals. People were dying in crazy numbers. And I think what happened to a lot of people during that time is that you have a really like a reassessment of what am I doing? How am I spending my time? And I'm making

great sacrifices for my career, financially, emotionally, physically, COVID that's physically, and am I getting that same return on investment? And I had to just be really honest with myself. And I was being courted to stay and have an even bigger role with even more visibility. But there was just misalignment between what I wanted to do and how I wanted to show up and who I wanted to serve versus what was.

⁓ available to me. And so I just knew, I didn't know what it would look like, but I knew this could not be it. And I just had ultimate faith in myself of I have figured a lot of things out. I have done the work. Like nothing has been given to me. I have these muscles. Like if they're not used in this very specific way, there has to be another place. I didn't know what it would be, but I was like, there has to be another place.

where I could be viable. so that's really, I had a hypothesis where I gave myself two years because when you're on air, you sign contracts and the contracts are usually two to four years. If you're an anchor, they're like four years, but two to three to four years. So I said, let me give myself two years. Cause that felt like a contract. It's almost a contract with myself. I'm going to go out here and I'm going to try to navigate whatever this wild landscape is.

and see if I can chart a new course for myself. I cannot quit for two years and I cannot ask myself if this is the right decision for two years, because I knew it would take time. And then after two years, I would give myself permission to say, okay, is this working? Is it not? And then if it wasn't working, then I would do something traditional again. But if not, you know, but if it worked, then it could be amazing opportunity for me. So that's what I did.

Brian Aquart (07:53)
No, I love that. I think a lot of people were having similar thoughts around that time. mean, hence the creation of this show, right? I got my initial origins from The Great Resignation. And so I'm glad that you recognize not only that it was time, but also that you gave yourself time, right? Because oftentimes you hear about people quitting their jobs and just looking for this quick fix or immediate.

Aundrea Cline-Thomas (08:04)
Yeah.

Brian Aquart (08:18)
response or immediate ROI after they do this thing that they say they like, but they don't give themselves enough time. And so I love that last part you mentioned about how you gave yourself time because that's also, you know, warming, right? Like, you know, look, you can, you can make these moves, but you can also be like, all right, it's going to take time to do these things. So love that. So let's, let's, yeah. Yeah.

Aundrea Cline-Thomas (08:38)
I also just want to add that I just wanted to add really

quickly that like when I went into my boss's office and told her that I want to leave, that it didn't come with trumpets. like my theme music wasn't turned off. I was in tears. I was so sad because this is what I wanted to do since I was 17 years old. And at that point I was about to turn 40. And so this is all I knew, you know? And so

Brian Aquart (08:52)
Yeah.

Aundrea Cline-Thomas (09:04)
I didn't know if I was making a big mistake. I was really just doubling down on myself. But even after the trumpets didn't sound, the angels didn't sing, I was just like, all right, this is gonna be work. And I have to put a lot of ego to the side and just say yes to everything.

Brian Aquart (09:24)
So how did your values guide the creation of Mountain Court Media and what did you want this next chapter to feel like?

Aundrea Cline-Thomas (09:32)
So it wasn't just like an immediate decision. Over years, I had been really trying to decouple myself from my job title and really think about what am I really good at? Really start listening to, you when I'm interacting with people, what are the common things, you know, things that they say about me when I'm doing stories or in the newsroom? What are the things that I wish existed that

Like I had no control over, but like when I had my own thing, I knew, all right, storytelling is, that's what I'm bored to do. But how do I want to do it? Who do I want to serve? Okay, I want to serve communities that are kind of traditionally put on the margins. I want to make them the center. I really like teaching people things. I wanted to be a teacher growing up before I decided I wanted to be a reporter.

And so all of, I just leaned into what naturally, like came naturally to me and said, all right, like I just, but I said it out loud and I wrote it down. This is what I'm going to do. Again, I didn't know the how and I didn't come, I didn't get hung up on the how, but I did get really clear about who I wanted to serve and how I wanted to serve them and what skills I had to offer that could be a value add.

Brian Aquart (10:45)
of that, what kind of either internal or even external resistance did you face when making that leap out of traditional journalism and how did you overcome it? Because it sounds like maybe the boss was cool with it, but internally you were going through some things. I think one of the feelings or emotions I heard you express was around grief too, around leaving this area.

Aundrea Cline-Thomas (11:05)
Yeah, so the grief came before I even made the decision of like, have put so much, I have made so many sacrifices. My first job, my first on-air job, I got paid $18,000 a year. That's with two degrees, you know? Like I had compromised my lifetime earning potential, you know? I had moved, I lived in Georgia, North Carolina, Tennessee.

Brian Aquart (11:10)
Okay.

Aundrea Cline-Thomas (11:31)
Pennsylvania and now New York. I missed a lot of life moments. I missed a lot of family moments because news is a 365 day career. So you work holidays. You don't have very much time off. I just had made a lot of sacrifices and I was just like, did I make all these sacrifices now to just like walk away? Did I waste time?

So that's the grief that I had. But as soon as I made that decision, the day was really hard in the moment, but I slept so good that night. I slept really good. I had just so much peace about it because I was honoring that kind of internal strife that I had, where I had known for a very long time that I had to leave, but just getting the courage up to do it was very difficult.

Brian Aquart (12:02)
Hmm.

Aundrea Cline-Thomas (12:18)
And then just in terms of starting a business versus getting another job, I tried to get another job. I couldn't get it. one would hire me. One of the things in news is that you can move up without, you can work for 15 years and not have actual direct reports. You're working in partnership with other people. You're working with corporate.

Brian Aquart (12:25)
Mmm.

Aundrea Cline-Thomas (12:40)
would call cross-functionally, you're doing all those things, but it doesn't necessarily translate into the structure of the corporate environment. It's a very different environment. And so I was having a hard time. Well, I wouldn't actually like pass the initial resume screenings. I didn't know how to talk about what I brought to the table. Even though my...

career was public facing, nobody understands what a journalist does. I liken it to being in the military. We say, you for your service, but what does somebody in the military do other than being on the battlefield, what we see in movies? We can't say what they do. You know, it's the same thing for journalists. You're consuming the news, but you don't actually have any clue what it takes to make that happen at a high level every single day. And so it just proved to be a challenge. so instead of trying to like,

do something that was clear that wasn't working. was just like, let me just try to figure this out on my own.

Brian Aquart (13:34)
I don't like that. You've spoken about how marginalized voices are often excluded or even flattened in mainstream narratives. How does your work now actively challenge that dynamic?

Aundrea Cline-Thomas (13:47)
So the people that I work with are all doing things to, they're innovative or they're doing things with communities of color and centering their voices. It's very different to add a perspective to a story than to center the story around said perspective and have the story be a mainstream story. So for instance, I do event production.

And so that means like if you go to conferences or you see a panel discussion, I produce things like that, generally for journalism organizations, but I've done it for other organizations before. So it's, I'm always looking for who haven't we heard from in this topic and trying to put a really interesting group of people together who have different perspectives. So I work with a big mainstream ⁓ journalism organization and I'm always

putting somebody there that's kind of just a little bit different. It's like, you know, that the audience needs to hear from and, know, cause we're not having the most innovative conversations in terms of the topics, but I think we can talk about it differently than we've heard many times before. And then another client, you know, just acquired a black centered media, digital media publication. And so I'm part of this transition team that is like helping

build the new wave of journalism that centers, literally centers black voices and black experiences. So you put, that's why I say it's important to write it down because again, I didn't say, I'm going over to this. A lot of the things have found me and I, because I was just really honest with myself, I think I became a magnet to exactly what aligned, you know, with my desire. So.

So much of what I've done since I've left has been in that space.

Brian Aquart (15:36)
And kudos to you. I think, you know, especially the climate we're in now, I think it's important that voices like that are heard, know, to marginalize voices from all ears are heard in that regard, because you hear this consistent kind of tampering down of those types of communication. So kudos to you and then the organizations that you're partnering with. ⁓ Yeah, let's talk a little bit about the Next Best Thing podcast.

Aundrea Cline-Thomas (15:57)
Thank you.

Brian Aquart (16:03)
You are in the podcast tribe. So ⁓ yes, welcome. Right. so this is season five that we're in, which we're recording. And it's a big milestone season for me. You know, episode 100. Yeah. You know, so we get 100 episodes this this this season, which is really cool. So you know how tough it is to be in this space. ⁓ So, you know, your show.

Aundrea Cline-Thomas (16:13)
Woo, congratulations.

Yeah. Yeah.

Brian Aquart (16:28)
As we just talked, champions people, navigating workspaces, not necessarily built for them. So what recurring patterns or insights have emerged in the conversations that you're having on your platform?

Aundrea Cline-Thomas (16:42)
Oh, so much. And first of all, kudos, because I never knew how hard it was to have a podcast. I'm just crossing 100 episodes. I was like, whoo, who's about to take me out? Some weeks I'm like, whoo. We barely, we got an episode out, the skin of my teeth. It's very difficult.

Brian Aquart (16:49)
You

Yeah.

You

Aundrea Cline-Thomas (17:02)
Just so many things, and that's what I want people to understand is that it doesn't matter what the industry is. There are common themes in terms of how to be successful and how to navigate this space, especially this space and time when workplaces are undergoing the most massive transformation ever. I still think the advice is tried and true. One is that you shouldn't do anything alone. You can't do anything alone. It's not ladder, you know, climbing one rung of the ladder at a time. You have to.

To leapfrog, you need a community to do that. Some people might call it networking. I call it being a friend and having friends, right? And it's not a one-way street. And so you have to be in community with other people. And sometimes people recognize that they don't have community when it's time when they need it. And so start making investments in that account before you need to make the withdrawal.

Right? So you have to be a resource to people. You have to actively see how you can serve first. You have to talk about your story. That's the other thing. So many people keep it private. You know, the idea that your hard work will pay off. No, not necessarily that it will speak for itself. No, it'll probably won't say much, you know, so you have to toot your own horn. That's another thing. People are

adamantly against talking about themselves. And it's just like the person who tells the best story is the person who gets what they want. The other thing is just money. We don't talk about money enough and it's always like, follow your dreams. We have to fund them as well. And so you have to really just get tighter. And this is something that I'm actively working on is just being, I have to be a lot more mindful.

about my money and the reason why I was able to leave now, I mean, it's a different time and I do want to acknowledge like that I had privilege in 2022 when I left, it was a very different economy and a very different time and I could figure things out. But also what I was very clear about is the reason why I was able to figure things out is because I had money in the bank where I ran the worst case scenario. If nobody picked up the phone and not a dollar came in,

how long could I go before I needed to make money? And I ended up getting a gig right after, the day I told my boss I was leaving was not the day I left. And I was able to get a gig just days later. So that gave me a little bit more room to have about six months in, you know, where I'd have about six months in the bank where if nothing, not a dime came through, I could live a certain type of life. And also before I left, I paid off,

pretty much all of my debt except for my student loan. So, you know, like I had to make financial decisions and money is a tool to freedom. It's not a bad word. It's not something to thumb your nose down at. It just gives you freedom. And so I think we do have to have bigger conversations about money, but those are three main things that I kind of hear from everybody that I talk to because you have to create room in your life.

to make a calculated risk. And that's what we talk about on the next best thing all the time is about not like, and then I did this and this and this and it all worked out. We talk about when you didn't have any money, but you took this risk and you didn't know if it was gonna pay off, what calculations did you make before you did that to make this a good risk to take? know, like what were you thinking about? you know, and how did you know that you could go on the other side? And a lot of things look

Brian Aquart (20:12)
They're great.

Aundrea Cline-Thomas (20:37)
The way it looks on the outside is usually not even scratching the surface of what the real story is behind the scenes.

Brian Aquart (20:44)
Yeah, I love that because a lot of times, especially when you see the end package online, you're just like, yeah, everything is smooth and beautiful and glorious and touched up. And so, but it is not like that. Sometimes it a little rough down there in the entrepreneurial trenches.

Aundrea Cline-Thomas (20:59)
Yeah, rough and tumbling

and you have to be brutally honest and self-aware. It's incredible.

Brian Aquart (21:04)
Yes.

Yeah, definitely. So what I love about your company, ⁓ Mountain Court Media, it's rooted, as we talked about earlier, in your family's legacy and the metaphor of bringing stories to the center. So now making that connection, how does ancestral storytelling influence your strategy today?

Aundrea Cline-Thomas (21:27)
man, how does ancestral storytelling influence my story today? That's a fantastic question. I really believe...

I just know who I am because I know where I come from. And I was always told stories like in Sierra Leone culture, there's ceremonies that you do, there's events that are had to honor people who have passed away and people, know, and so, you know, I grew up with my parents talking about their parents. only had, I had a few grandparents, but not...

you know, not everyone. So my mom's mom passed away when she was just 16. My dad's mom passed away when he was like 20. But just hearing stories about them, great uncles, know, things of that nature. And then there's these events that we go to where you honor people who have passed away and then certain things you cook and the ways you honor them. And then going to Africa so much as a kid.

I know who I am and I know where I come from. And so that way I don't need to seek external validation from folks. I'm just very rooted. And so when you have, then I have the courage to share. And what I'm trying to do is not appease people, but to just find my tribe. So I'm not really concerned with the people that I'm not for knowing that I won't be for a lot of people.

But that's not my concern. It's just really recalibrating my GPS to find my tribe. you know, put out my signal out there to see who catches it. And then we can kind of be in community together. it gives me a lot. And ancestral storytelling gives me a lot of pride and gives me ⁓ a sense of self because also what I grew up with was this idea that we had to like the baton was passed to us. So in my

family, I am the generation of the most privileged in my family. I was born in America, you know, I got a great education. So I have the most responsibility to my lineage, right, to move the ball forward. And so it's never a singular pursuit for me. There's always, you know, so many people that come with it and such a responsibility.

And so that also helps me move with intention and purpose and also urgency. So that's why I also wanted to leave because I'm just like, I don't take time for granted. COVID did that for a lot of us, right? Of understanding, you know, what time it means. And so I've got these gifts and I'm not using it at the capacity where I know I could function.

Brian Aquart (24:00)
Absolutely.

Aundrea Cline-Thomas (24:10)
And sometimes people just look at my story and say, she didn't like her job. And I was like, it's not, that's like oversimplifying it. What I know about myself is that I have a great capacity, that I am on assignment, and that in this structure, I can only function at 30%, you know? And I need to create room so I can function at 100 % because that's what I was put here to do.

And so I just gave myself permission and cleared the path to show up in that way. But I wouldn't be thinking about that if I didn't have the background that I do and if I wasn't raised in the way that I was.

Brian Aquart (24:49)
I really, I love that. Can I, if you don't mind, I'd love to ask a follow-up question to that around with that and with everything you just mentioned. I would imagine there is not only a lot of freedom in that feeling, but also a lot of pressure in that feeling as well. How do you balance the two?

Aundrea Cline-Thomas (25:01)
Mm-hmm.

Yeah.

So there's also in that pressure, there is unlearning because I have an immigrant background mentality. And so I just had a conversation where I had a session because I have a membership with the Next Best Thing. So I help other people kind of navigate their career and life transitions. And we had like an accountant, my business, my accountant on, and we're talking about money. And she talks about the money stories that you were taught, right?

And so being first gen, it's the harder you work, the more money you will make. And there is a deep correlation between that. And she's like, no, you can make money easily. And so there are things that I also have to unlearn. There are things that have gotten me to this point that have been so necessary and I'm super proud of. But then to get to the next point, like energy is finite.

You can only push, but so hard, right? So there are some things about that that I have to unlearn and in that, that kind of relinquishes some of the pressure. So I have to change my strategy where I don't, I can't do the things that my parents did because I also have much more privilege than they did, you know? And in having the right strategy,

I can still meet the goal and I can still fulfill the purpose, but I have to have a new way of thinking about how to pursue that, if that makes sense.

Brian Aquart (26:40)
It does. does. I

appreciate you elaborating on that because that was just such a powerful statement that you had. was just like, man, that's, that's a delicate balance for sure. But I'm glad you, yeah. We'd love to, you know, we're both kind of in the storytelling business, right? And obviously we're living in a time of AI. And so what's your take on the future of storytelling in this era of AI, short form content, and at times, you know, particularly

Aundrea Cline-Thomas (26:48)
It's totally different.

Brian Aquart (27:07)
kind of brand overload and how do we preserve depth and authenticity in what we do?

Aundrea Cline-Thomas (27:13)
So I went to a conference this summer and they were talking, know, AI was such a big topic and they were talking about how it's gonna come to a point where we cannot tell what is true or false online. And so then in-person, like in-person communication will become a premium. And so I think that storytelling, I think online is a great tool for discoverability, but nothing

will ever be being face-to-face with somebody. And so I think that I'm hoping that the arts have even more of a resurgence. Like I lived, I live in New York, so I go to Broadway all the time. And so I'm hoping that artistic expression, storytelling in real life where you can touch and you can feel it, which is really the most powerful way to experience it.

becomes a premium, right? And that we are really focusing on that. In terms of AI, I know a lot of people think about it in terms of a binary good or bad. I don't. Just because it's here and it's moving faster than the speed of light, right? So we need to participate. We need to use these tools because they're still being refined.

And I think that we really need to be a part of the process of refinement. But I think it's also a way to democratize access. Access has often, has always really only been given to people with a certain amount of privilege. And with AI and with AI tools being available to all of us.

For now, for free, we're gonna have to start paying for stuff moving forward, you know, but for now, for free, I think it can democratize the speed in which we can distribute our stories and increase the availability of ⁓ discoverability, just in terms of like a strategic standpoint. And that way, I think you will be able to find your tribe even faster. So I, you know, there are concerns about

AI and, and they're all real, right? There, I understand it. They're all real. But the thing is that what I know for sure is that it's already moving faster. And what we're talking about, we're talking about a past tense and then, but what is being planned and implemented for the future is just even more.

So we can't stop it. It's here. The train has left the station. How do we get on and formulate its creation and also use it to our benefit to level the playing field for all of us? I think the opportunity is there. We just have to see it as such.

Brian Aquart (29:49)
I agree with that. know, looking back, what's the most surprising thing you've learned about yourself through this transition?

Aundrea Cline-Thomas (29:57)
my god.

think the most surprising thing is how optimistic I still am.

Brian Aquart (30:03)
I love that. I love it. Let's keep it real.

Aundrea Cline-Thomas (30:05)
all of it, because it's like I knew I was tough. I didn't know to what extent, because at times it feels like you are just fighting. I don't want to say fighting for your life, but you are fighting for your ideas. It's a sacred space to have an idea, formulate it, implement it, and then put it out into the marketplace.

for it to be received or rejected, right? Like it is, that is a sacred act. So you are putting yourself out there, you are trying new things, there's a lot of courage, there's a lot of money, there's a lot of calculations that are having to be made, there's a lot of work. And so the fact that I'm still, that I didn't,

Because it's not the easy route, you know? Nothing's the easy route now, but I could have done other things that were easier. And sometimes I'm just like, girl, you are a glutton for punishment. Like for God's sakes, just do something else. There has to be an easier way. But the fact that I'm still so optimistic about everything, I wake up really excited every day.

kind of surprises me. And also what alignment feels like.

Brian Aquart (31:19)
⁓ That's fair

Aundrea Cline-Thomas (31:24)
That also surprises me. And I find it, yeah, just to be such a great privilege of saying, no, I am doing what I really feel designed to do. And finally kind of getting to that point and accepting that about myself, yeah.

Brian Aquart (31:40)
Well, I'll tell you from a, you this is our second time officially talking, right? But what you just said, what you just said, I feel that through and through listening to you throughout this conversation and hopefully the audience picks it up as well, but you seem so.

Aundrea Cline-Thomas (31:45)
here.

Brian Aquart (31:56)
grounded in your decision as to why you made the decision, what you're doing now and the reasons behind what you're doing now. That word alignment is perfect for what I'm actually experiencing right now in this conversation with you. So I just wanted to lift that up and say that you're thinking that, but I'm seeing that.

Aundrea Cline-Thomas (32:16)
Well, that's the highest compliment. Thank you so much. I worked hard for it. I worked really hard for it. I had to fight for it. And especially when others, I had to see it for myself before others could see it for me. And it wasn't like, you know, it was very black and white, but I had to then live it in color, if that makes any sense. So I didn't know the nuances and the contours and all of that, but I just.

Brian Aquart (32:37)
Mm-hmm.

Aundrea Cline-Thomas (32:42)
Sometimes I was just operating from this idea of like something else has to be there. Something else has to exist and not feel like, and feel like it was accessible to me. All I had was like an education gap, like I, or a relational gap. I just haven't met the right person who can kind of steer me in the right direction. Or I haven't just had the right education where I'm just like reading books and listening to podcasts and reading articles like.

And it's so it's just a small yes is I think people sometimes just wait for the big yes. Like I get this job title. Yes. No, it was a small sorta small yes sorta and then just adding things together over time.

Brian Aquart (33:18)
Right. ⁓

Yeah, I love that. So, you lot of folks who are listening to this, looking for advice in their own regards. So for listeners who are feeling stuck but are afraid to leave, let's say, you know, a high status role, what would you say to help them start exploring what's next?

Aundrea Cline-Thomas (33:44)
So I love this question because it's not exactly what people think that I would say. So at Creative Framework, we won't go through the whole thing, but it's called Empower. And the first step, people often talk about, well, what role do I want? I'm like, hold up. I need you to first get out a piece of paper. I don't think you should even do it digitally. I don't think it's like a document on your, you know, or your notes app.

I need you to write it. There's just an act of getting a pen and writing it down. You need to evaluate. Evaluate what went well, what didn't go well. Because what happens is that when you don't have a full rounded sense of yourself, you will recreate this experience that you don't desire in something else. The names will be swapped, but the way the experience feels will be just the same thing.

You know, something new doesn't mean it's greener pastures, right? The fact that I left is not the win. It's the fact that I'm aligned. That's the win. So alignment can come within where you are. You might need a new project. You might need a new department. You might need to assert yourself differently so you can get more of what you want, possibly ask for things that you need so you can show up the best.

a way you can, but nothing happens without self-awareness. And really our culture kind of trains us to be on autopilot. And so you've got to break that training and really start saying, on my best day, this is the advice that I got when I was still trying to figure stuff out, on your best day, what were you doing? Who were you with? What happened? And start remembering, writing that down.

You know, so when I had a great interview, that was like when, oof, it felt like flying, right? Like, I had a great interview. When I was in an environment where we had to collaborate on something tough and we got to the finish line and just that sense of accomplishment with a team, that always felt great. When I learned something new, a new app, a new anything, I love learning.

that always felt great. So it's just the little things. You don't make it a title, but you have to understand where you are lit up. The second part is money. And we talked about it a little bit, but you have to know, especially in these times, if things go left, how long can you survive? And then also, if things go left, how do you monetize your expertise? What does that look like?

What can you offer the marketplace that the marketplace will pay for? You just always need to have that in your back pocket. And sharing your story, we talked about that before, but also expanding your network. You've got to start knowing more people and you have to start being a resource for more people. if you, again, you have to make deposits, show up to serve, serve first.

I could not be in this position. Every dollar I have made since I left has come from a friend, directly or indirectly from a friend. But that's because I have just a serving, you know, that's how I show up in the world is what do you need? How can I help? Because I feel like there's enough to go around. So I think those are the top things people could do right now within their space to give them a

better trajectory or just to give them, get them closer to where they want to be. Go from where you are to where you want to be.

Brian Aquart (37:07)
I love that. I think that's great advice. You know, couple of them hit close to home for me, especially monetizing your expertise because that is I'm still figuring that out. So but it's a work in progress. Yeah, yeah, yeah. You know, earlier we talked a little bit about this navigating space is not built for us. And I love that piece and what you focus on in your show. Still staying in the advice section, how can professionals of color protect their energy?

Aundrea Cline-Thomas (37:13)
Thank

Yes, and we're gonna progress for all of us. Yeah.

Brian Aquart (37:34)
and still drive impact in those types of environments or decide truthfully when it's time to walk away because it no longer serves them.

Aundrea Cline-Thomas (37:42)
I think, and the way it's gonna come out is gonna be harsh, but I'll explain. You gotta get a life, right? And work cannot be your whole life. And that's the thing. It's like whenever I was in a space and that was particularly frustrating, I always was like, no, no, I understand where this lies in the continuum. Like I'm here, but my trajectory is here. And so I have

context and perspective on this experience. It is not the be all end all. And so I'm interacting with people in terms of like, where you are in this trajectory. If somebody keeps on putting roadblocks, you are not in the tribe. I'm not here to convince you to be in the tribe. If you are somebody who needs, I need to strategically.

like has a strategic position that can help me that I might need to leverage, then okay, I can massage that relationship, but in the space of how do I get what I need to get from it? If they're not, you know, the person that's the easiest to get, you know, get along with, right? That is causing me some sort of strife. I think it's where are you? Where do you want to go? And what does it take to get there?

And then you figure out, I need to be, okay, this person is being really difficult. Should I join an ERG that gives me more visibility? So then I can leverage that, because I'll have strategic introductions there that are higher than this person who's blocking me to get around them. know, for instance, I worked at a station where my direct manager, where the big boss was not particularly fond of me, but

I saw this, the company had this initiative and they said that you had to, most people got, you know, recommended by their boss. I was like, well, my boss is not like me. That is not going to happen at all. So I recommended myself and I got it. And I got an all expense paid trip to New York. I was in Philadelphia at the time to do this program. So I got in and I got mentorship and then they had something else and I applied for that too. And so then I was one of four.

people to get this even bigger thing. And so, but I was very clear of this might end, which it did, this role might end, but I'm a squeeze everything out of it that I can leverage that to go to where I need to go. Nothing is wasted. But I also say get a life because it's, you have your family, you have your friends, go out.

Go outside, go touch grass, go, you know what I mean? And not talk about work. Like you're not a one dimensional person. There are other things going on. And so when you have other things going on in your life, like you, it helps you put work in its rightful place. You know, and I think we have a, we have a kind of jacked up relationship with work.

Brian Aquart (40:18)
You

Aundrea Cline-Thomas (40:41)
And so that way it controls our personal life. So we're not showing up for our families the way in which we need to, or we're not showing up for our friends in the way we need to, or we're not allowing people to pour into us when we really need the help. But yeah, I think those are some of the ways that I think about work is that especially if you're having a tough time, what can you leverage to get you closer to what you want? Don't stay in the emotion of the conflict.

figure out how to be strategic about it. So you can either get out of there or use it to your benefit.

Brian Aquart (41:14)
no, before we flip the mic. Before we flip the mic, I want to ask you one more question. Forward looking. What are you most looking forward to in the future?

Aundrea Cline-Thomas (41:22)
I'm looking for, I'm so excited about 2026 PS because I finally feel like I have more of an understanding about how things need to go for me. So I took three years and I say yes to everything. And now I know what I like and now I know what I don't like. I know I need some more boundaries. And so I'm looking forward to having a more streamlined.

life experience in 2026 in terms of, you know, charging more, doubling down on this membership that I started because it just lights me up and I love that work so much. So I just have so much more clarity. So I look forward to operationalizing that with the information that I have from this newfound clarity. That's what I'm looking forward to the most.

Brian Aquart (42:14)
that. Now we'll flip the mic. What's one question you have for me that I could hopefully answer?

Aundrea Cline-Thomas (42:15)
Yeah.

Yeah, I would love to know how are you thinking about this moment, especially with a podcast called Why I Left, when a lot of people are not choosing to leave and the workplace and the workforce is so fraught. How are you advising people to really think about this moment in time and prepare for it so they can win?

Brian Aquart (42:46)
That's a great question. So when I think about the moment on and of itself, you know, the show deals a lot with voluntary resignations, but clearly as the news tells us, not a lot of volunteers are happening, but there is a whole host of involuntaries. And I think what is, what it's really solidified for me, and you've touched on a few things that I just keep thinking about, like, some of the work I'm doing around storytelling is, is people need to do a better job. And you mentioned it earlier.

do a better job of telling their own stories. And I say people as a whole, men and women, but you caught me at a moment where I'm actually doing a series on the gender gap in self-evaluation, where it's women who despite at times being on equal playing field and performing just as well if not above of men, still rate themselves lower than

their counterparts. And this is research that I've found through a friend of mine, Alana, and her husband, Judd Kessler, has done this research. it took me down a rabbit hole because I've been working with folks through this often called storyline around how do you tell your narrative? Because oftentimes, and truthfully, a lot of the women who went through my pilot, they were

building their brand or starting to think a bit more about their brand as things were a little bit on the outs with their organization. And no knock, no judgment. A lot of us in there like now it's time to move, but what if we just, what if this is something that we curated through? I don't even curate it, but we cultivated and we watered and we threw out our times in these spaces. And so now with a lot of these involuntary, let's just call it these layoffs happening, right?

Aundrea Cline-Thomas (44:29)
Thank

Brian Aquart (44:29)
⁓

it's important for people to start controlling their own narrative and what that means for folks is truthfully TBD. When I have folks come in and say they want to, they want to do this thing, I take them through a process where, know, well, what is it that you want to do? Cause it's not magic for me. I can't tell you what you want to do, but what is it you're passionate about? How are you showing up? And then how are you telling people about this in a way that's not

braggadocious or anything like that. But it's about impact, right? It's about what's the impact that you're driving. You said something earlier that I held it in, but I was chuckling. You were like, you know, the old adage and this, you know, my father was an immigrant as well. And you know, put your head down, work hard and all these other things, right? And look, no knock, but at times you can work as hard as you want to. And guess what? People still not going to see you, but they can't, they can't ignore you.

Aundrea Cline-Thomas (45:19)
bright.

Brian Aquart (45:22)
when the impact that you're driving is not only visible and not visible from a self-promotional standpoint, but visible from an impact standpoint. And that is how I'm seeing this moment. People need to do a better job of showing the impact that they're driving. They could be leading it themselves, they could be supporting some of it, regardless, they're involved with it.

And whatever your involvement is, you need to tell somebody about that. You need to write about it. You need to do a video about it and not everybody's comfortable with video. know, but, do something to get this word out there or to be honest, it might as well have never happened.

Aundrea Cline-Thomas (46:03)
Hmm. I love that. Can I ask a follow-up? Okay. And I want to ask you the question you asked me of what is something that surprised you? Yeah.

Brian Aquart (46:05)
absolutely.

Okay.

surprise me about just in general or just, oh, yeah.

Aundrea Cline-Thomas (46:11)
about yourself in this journey.

Brian Aquart (46:17)
that's a good one. So, you my background is as an employment attorney and I used to do internal investigation. So I'm, I'm comfortable with the, the interview per se, but my interviews were a bit more adversarial than, than what I'm doing here. Right. what, what surprised me about kind of this new lane that I'm in now, in addition to what I do day to day is just how much joy I get out of it.

Aundrea Cline-Thomas (46:30)
I love you.

Brian Aquart (46:43)
And how, you know, look, and I'm still learning, but I think I'm like, you know what? I'm, I'm, I'm decent in this space. Like, I feel like I can hold a conversation with anybody. Like I've had some really, ⁓ some good, some good interviews and great guests. Of course, I you all make the show. I'm really just like the moderator and all this, but I get a lot of joy out of this space. And what has surprised me is, is that, but also what surprised me is the unknown.

Like I don't know where this is going. Like genuinely. I don't know where this is gonna lead me, but this is by far having a show is especially about this topic is one of the best conversation starters I never knew existed because everybody wants, they hear you got a show, they want to talk about the show. And I'm like, all right, you know how many guests I ended up with like, you want to come on like, like and do an interview. ⁓ yeah, I'd love to. Boom, let's do it. Right. So that's what surprised me about how much joy I'm getting out of this and.

Aundrea Cline-Thomas (47:11)
Thank

Exactly.

Brian Aquart (47:36)
the fact that the unknown is actually very appealing to me? Great question. Yeah.

Aundrea Cline-Thomas (47:40)
That's fantastic. Yeah. It

was your question. ⁓

Brian Aquart (47:44)
I know.

I just want to thank you so much for joining the show today. I'm glad, you know, Paula connected as she's obviously doing amazing things and you all are, you know, in the, in this space, but it's been a pleasure hearing more of your story as I mentioned earlier, and sometimes maybe the guests for folks who may be just joining the program now, I do one intro call very high level. And the second time we speak is here.

And so I hear a lot of these things for the first time. And it's just such a pleasure that you felt comfortable in this space to share all that you did. So would love to stay connected. You're in New York. I'm in New York. And would love for you to share where our listeners can find you and support the work that you're doing. And of course, like, follow and subscribe to your show.

Aundrea Cline-Thomas (48:29)
Yes,

the next best thing anywhere where you like to have podcasts or listen, watch podcasts. LinkedIn is the social media platform that I play on the most. also on Instagram. ⁓ Next best thing pod or AndreaCT. Yeah, those are the places to come find me.

Brian Aquart (48:49)
Perfect. Well, thank you for that info. And look, that'll do it for today's episode. Again, I want to thank Aundrea Cline-Thomas for joining me today. I'll share all of her information in the show notes and make sure you go and check out the Next Best Thing podcast. And I hope you all have a great week and we'll definitely see you next time. Andrea, thank you.

Aundrea Cline-Thomas (48:50)
Yes.

Thank you so much.

Brian Aquart (49:09)
Thanks for listening to Why I Left. Join us next time for more inspiring stories about growth, resilience, and transformation. Visit us online at www.whyileft.co. That's whyileft.co.