Leaving Corporate Healthcare and Choosing Authenticity – Geoffrey Roche

Geoffrey Roche left corporate healthcare after realizing that professional success could not come at the expense of personal authenticity. His decision to step away from Siemens Healthineers came during a profound period of identity, courage, and recalibration.

Geoffrey is a nationally recognized voice in healthcare leadership, education, workforce strategy, and the future of work. In this conversation, he reflects on the influence of his mother, his early career in healthcare administration, the leaders who shaped him, and the corporate environment that eventually no longer felt aligned with who he was becoming.

This episode is for mid-career professionals, healthcare leaders, educators, and anyone questioning whether the role they are in still fits the person they are becoming. Brian and Geoffrey explore holistic leadership, personal branding, career pivots, workplace belonging, and the importance of trusting your gut when something no longer feels healthy. Press play for a conversation about courage, clarity, identity, and choosing work that allows you to live whole.

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Transcript

Geoffrey Roche 0:03

I didn't need to be in a space where I couldn't be authentically who I am. I also didn't need to be in a space where people were telling me what I can do and what I can't do with my own personal and private space. I finally, after many, many years, accepted after being married for over 15 years, that I was actually a gay man. And it was a space where I had to, you know, from a corporate end, also take that risk to decide, you know, am I going to come out at work? If you can't be who you are at work, I'm not so sure you'll be able to be who you are in life. If your mindset has already gotten you to the point where you're thinking about leaving, you're going to leave at some point. And so give thought to what that plan looks like and make it happen.

Brian Aquart 0:45

Welcome to Why I Left, a podcast exploring life-changing career moves. I'm your host, Brian Accar. Join me as I chronicle real stories from real people about the bold decisions that transform their careers and lives. Let's dive in. Hello, and thanks for tuning in to this episode of Why I Left. What does it take to leave the safety of a global healthcare giant and step into the uncertain world of education, leadership, and workforce transformation? For Jeffrey Roche, it was a question of purpose and a bet on the future. Let's go check it out. All right, welcome back. So my guest today is Jeffrey Roche. He is a nationally recognized voice on leadership, education, and the future of work in healthcare. After years at Siemens Healthineers, he pivoted into higher education, workforce strategy, and consulting, becoming a sought-after speaker and advisor. He now hosts conversations on holistic leadership, shaping the dialogue around how we prepare people and organizations for what's next. So today we'll unpack his journey, his decision to leave corporate life, and the lessons he's learned about courage, clarity, and growth. So, Jeffrey, welcome to Why I Left. How are you doing? Good. How are you doing, Brian? I'm pretty good. It's so good to connect with you. You know, this is like one aspect of my life, but we've connected on the other aspect of my life in the healthcare space. And so it's good to see you dip in both of these waters. And so would love for you to share with our audience a little bit about yourself, about your early career, and really what drew you into healthcare leadership at Siemens.

Geoffrey Roche 2:28

Yeah. So, you know, obviously the influence of what first brought me into healthcare, I never realized until later in life was truly my mother. Obviously, you know, on LinkedIn, you know, many people know me as the son of a nurse. And certainly my mother's influence on me, not just from a personal end, but certainly from a professional end, has always been quite profound. You know, I I today can remember at age five attending her graduation from her associate degree in nursing. Uh, I remember her pinning ceremony. I remember her commencement extremely well at age five. I remember it so well because my grandmother, who we referred to as Oma, who was born and you know, brought my family from Germany, was the first time anyone in our family had achieved an education in the U.S., um, but also a degree uh in the entire family. And to first achieve that dream as a single mom was quite profound. So her influence was very strong. I never thought I would go into healthcare, though. I actually thought I was going to go into politics. That was actually the space I loved, worked in politics while I was in high school for a local legislator, worked in politics in college, interned on the hill, and that's where I thought I would be. But it was, you know, really that influence of my mother. And then I had an internship, my senior year of higher education of my undergrad with a healthcare system. That's actually now part of Jefferson, uh, was Lehigh Valley Health Network at the time. And I just really fell in love with the opportunities one could have from a healthcare administration perspective. Now, fast forward, you know, I did a decade as a hospital administrator early in my career. That was the first job I had, grew into leadership there, was the absolute best environment culture I've ever served in. We went through a restructuring when Lehigh Valley took over our hospital. And then obviously, I actually moved into academia the first stint at two different colleges and universities, then moved into an ed tech company, founding a leadership team member there, and then obviously uh didk's consulting work prior to being recruited to Siemens. And I tell people all the time, it's fascinating to me because other than my time at Pocono, which is where I started my career, I've always been challenged with really interesting leaders since that time. I had phenomenal leaders in that experience, but I've really seen how toxic and how bad leaders can truly be to their people in so many of the other experiences. And ultimately, while I was actually, you know, doing a lot of the work, my desire actually to go to Siemens was was kind of a couple different things. A, I knew that, you know, obviously Siemens is a very large company doing incredible work, having a very strong mission to, you know, discover and enable breakthroughs in medicine for everyone everywhere. Very, very strong. But I also knew, Brian, like I had never really been in a large corporate structure. And so I also knew it could be a really interesting experience, learning opportunity, and at the same time, profound opportunity to have larger scale sustainable impact. And um, you know, that's what really allowed me to even consider the opportunity since I had not necessarily been in that environment before. That's amazing.

Brian Aquart 5:21

And as you think about that, and now your time there, who or what shaped your philosophy on holistic leadership?

Geoffrey Roche 5:27

You know, it's fascinating, actually. The the foundation of it was actually formed under my first CEO, who was my CEO at my hospital system. You know, she was an incredible, not just nurse leader, but just amazing person. And, you know, ironically, she actually grew up, grew her career in healthcare as a nurse and into leadership in New York-based hospitals, and then eventually made her way to Pennsylvania to serve, you know, as the CEO after having served in many administrative COO roles, et cetera, uh, in New York. In fact, during 9-11, I can rivetly remember her telling me the story that she was at New Uh then at then actually in Jersey at Newark Beth, but she, you know, did a lot of work uh in New York as well, was just an incredible leader that taught me in the in the seven years that I had the privilege to work with and for her, that as leaders, we can never forget our humble beginnings and where we come from. And I saw her as an executive truly never forget. And so when nurses were struggling, I would see her go into her office and throw her scrubs on and go work with them and help them. And I would see her spend time realizing that nothing was ever beneath her as a CEO. She would literally walk the halls and pick up stuff if she saw it. And, you know, housekeepers and the environmental services team would come and say, no, Kathy, let us do it. And she'd say, Come on now. You guys are so busy. I'm right here. I could do it too. Just get me a mop. I'm happy to do it. She just was an incredible person through and through. When I think of dignity, when I think of human purpose, when I think of just the sheer fact of how amazing of a leader she was, and she also could hold people accountable. So, you know, don't get me wrong. I think that's where people get, you know, hung up on this. I think they think if you're too nice of a leader, you don't also hold people accountable. I think there's a balance of both, and Kathy perfected that in my opinion. As I went through my career though, there were other people that helped me really understand how to define that experience. Because as I started to struggle at times with other leaders in my life who at first glance seemed really nice or seemed like they'd actually be a great mentor. But then as I started to work with them, could tell they had a lot of really bad qualities that ultimately led me to say, I'm out of here. And, you know, in many cases, uh, either I was restructured or I chose to leave. I think ultimately it helped me really understand why holistic leadership, heart-centered leadership is critical. And that is really that element that, you know, yes, we can drive results. We should always be thinking about performance, certainly from a financial perspective, certainly from a strategic plan, mission, vision, values. But if we don't find the way to engage, encourage, inspire others, we might as well forget what we're doing because at the end of the day, they matter most.

Brian Aquart 8:06

Read. And what I love about that is there's this theme, and something I I often talk about, just like the being mindful of and respectful of the humanity of others. Right. And so when I think about and hear, and as I was reading about your piece around holistic leadership, that's something that really resonated with me because that's something that I I talk about consistently. This whole the humanity of us all, whether it's the programs I'm in, this show, where I show up in in healthcare, that is just so important and such a common thread. So I I love that you you highlight that. So you spend years in this corporate healthcare role. What was the turning point that made you step away?

Geoffrey Roche 8:42

Yeah. You know, I think it was really interesting actually, because during my time at Siemens, I had this amazing opportunity to work with truly transformative folks, certainly people with truly a commitment to the mission for certain. But it was also actually a massive time of life transformation for me. You know, it was a time where I finally, after many, many years, accepted after being married for over 15 years that I was actually a gay man. And it was a space where I had to, you know, from a corporate end, also take that risk to decide, you know, am I going to come out at work? Uh, are people gonna start to know who I truly am? Yes, I have this large, you know, community. And, you know, what was fascinating was I'll never forget, you know, a colleague of mine who actually you met at one time when we met in person, who was just such, I almost remind, she reminds me of like an angel at the time because her ability to support me and encourage me was very helpful because I didn't necessarily know or feel that leaders in the organization would. And what I quickly learned was, you know, despite Siemens being a company that has a very strong commitment to diversity, equity, inclusion, and belonging, when I first shared it, it was actually right around the summer and fall, right before the presidential election. And so very different political times. And I acknowledge and understand that. And the initial reaction was very, very supportive. But what I started to realize and notice as times were changing post-election was the company wasn't clearly not as invested in really the same aspect that they were globally, which was, you know, really supporting the diversity, equity, inclusion, and belonging. I just started to feel that, for example, you know, I was told you can't necessarily just post everything you want to post on social media. That was not a concern ever shared with me, you know, um, because I started to be much more authentic. It was a life journey for me. I was in active therapy. I was trying for the first time to accept and live my life. And most and everyone that was supporting me was saying, Jeffrey, you need to start to do this because if you do it, you're gonna help save others because you know, you have an important enroll to influence and and hopefully give others hope. And so, Brian, honestly, I saw a real big change there. And when I sat back and thought about it in where I was in my life, I didn't need to be in a space where I couldn't be authentically who I am. I also didn't need to be in a space where people were telling me what I can do and what I can't do with my own personal and private space. And in many ways, actually, it brought me back to a massive reflection that I had early in my career when I actually lost my job at Pocono during restructuring with Lehigh Valley when we were acquired, when it was one of those moments in my life where, you know, actually we were having our second child at the time and I lost my job. And I remember sitting there and thinking, I was so committed, and I'm sure you'll relate to this, so committed to that job, so committed to that organization, so committed to the work that was truly worth doing, that in some ways my identity was in that job. And I remember thinking as I came back to that experience, because after that experience, back in uh, I remember the date very well, January 26th of 2017, when I left that organization due to restructuring. That period of time, that last, that year leading up to after that, I transformed my mind to say, I will never be part of an organization if they feel that they control me. I have a brand, and my personal brand is also who I am. And both personally and professionally, I want to be a part of an organization that champions that, encourages it, inspires it. I'm not suggesting that I veer off and not be aligned with mission, vision, values. But what I'm suggesting is I have unique talents and should be allowed to leverage them in support of the work that they do. And so when I felt that that was in not incongruence, I said, you know what? Clearly, this environment, this organization, these leaders are not the right ones for me to be doing this work with.

Brian Aquart 12:32

Wow, you said so much there that I'd love to that I'm just just dwelling on, just thinking about. And I, one, I appreciate you you sharing the not only the coming out story, but that there's this theme of identity, right? So not only personal identity, but the branding piece and all of that and being tied to a job. We talk about these things a lot on the show. You know, I'm I'm curious when you when you think about that, the the question I initially had was around this, like the hardest part around leaving the safety of the global brand. But what I wonder is, I could, if you don't mind, I've shifted a little bit. How was it during that time to be that open and honest with yourself in a large global brand, especially at the time when things were so unknown? So what was what was difficult about that moment, if you don't mind sharing?

Geoffrey Roche 13:20

It was definitely incredibly difficult because you know, I think like to to the earlier point, right? There was, you know, I went back and forth on even do I start to begin to be who I am? And the same colleague I was telling you about, you know, truly made an exceptional point to me in that she said, Jeffrey, I've always known you to be authentic. And so if you can't be who you are at work, I'm not so sure you'll be able to be who you are in life.

unknown 13:44

Yeah, beautiful.

Geoffrey Roche 13:45

And so, you know, at the same time, I was wrestling with a lot, certainly going through the steps of a separation to divorce, massive change, certainly for my children, massive change for my entire family, beginning to help people understand. You know, many people also were trying to deep down understand why it took so long for me to know this, understand it. Certainly there were people who would say Jeffrey's got a vendetta and is choosing to just come out to upset other people. I mean, you know, I've lost loved ones in this process that have, you know, chosen not to accept who I am or support or do anything that would be positive uh for or to me. And then I also knew that I have to figure out how I would wrestle with the work aspect. In fact, one of the challenges when I finally got to this full acceptance of it was how will this impact me, not just as a father, certainly not as, you know, certainly as a family member, but also from a career perspective, because I am, you know, and have been the primary supporter of my whole family. Would this be the end of my personal brand? Would this be, you know, an opportunity where we're coming out of, you know, four years of an administration where uh these things were lifted up to, you know, a very different time. In fact, my mother, who's been an incredible supporter, another angel of my life, said to me, and you know, she sh not because she wanted me to hide who I was, but she said to me, Do you think maybe now may not be the right time to go so public with this type of stuff? Because you're gonna be entering four years that could be truly the worst for someone like you. And I remember, you know, that point was such a good one. Uh, I understand where she's coming from as a mom. Yeah, she wants to protect me. But I remember thinking back in that moment, and I said to her, you know, uh, in the near future, I'm gonna turn 40. And I have always been a pioneer in the work that I do and in life that I live. And I am not gonna shy away from anyone that feels they can close me into a bubble. I'm not willing to be the type of person that has to quietly quit and be in a space. That's just not who I am. I'm not gonna be a passive person. I'm gonna be an active, proactive, and progressive person that will continue to perform and do the work that's worth doing. And so it really was sort of that that that sort of all out all-in kind of aspect that came in to say, and with incredible support from from some of my family and certainly uh some incredible friends and mentors that have also walked this exact journey in some cases, that said to me, Jeffrey, the real people in your life who matter, both in the workplace and your family friends, they're gonna walk alongside you. And the ones that don't, they don't get the benefit of walking alongside you. And so that's really what I would say to it.

Brian Aquart 16:27

Yeah. Oh, that's great. Building on that, that brand piece. And one of the things you mentioned too, about how org's not supporting the things that you do on the outside, right? They can't hang you down in that space. And I love that you mentioned that because oftentimes in some of the work that I do as well, people tend to get a little shy or sheepish when it comes to that. And so let's talk a little bit about your national voice. You've built a very strong national voice. I actually love your content online. What is your playbook for turning expertise into influence?

Geoffrey Roche 16:58

It's really interesting. I get this you know, question all the time. And in many ways, you know, the playbook is constant alignment, you know, alignment to purpose, alignment to real realizing that look, as we all know, there's just so many challenges out there in the workplaces, in lives and in communities. And I don't think we have enough people who want to bring people together. I don't think we have enough people who want to also call bad leadership for truly what it is. And I don't think we have enough people who want to think about how we can inspire others with our words and our actions and find the common ground that allows all of us to grow in that right direction together. And so when I think about playbook, it's interesting, right? Because the more and more that I've been doing this, I walk into spaces, different meetings, events. I'm, you know, on panels like you, I'm speaking at events, and people will come up to me and say, Jeffrey, you don't know what you've done for me. And it happened recently, and I sat sat there and thought, what do you mean what I've done for you? I didn't even know the person. And this person went on to say, you know, I work at this organization and our sales team, we we we pay attention to you all the time because we've got some horrible leaders, but your words have helped us, your videos, your actions have helped us realize that our work is so important. And despite that, those bad leaders, if we weren't here to do the work, who would? And, you know, I guess when I think back to some of those things, and sometimes, as you know, like sometimes it's just so hard to do it every day or do it as often as you do, like it's not easy. But I realize that I have an important role in some way to play and contribute to the benefit of others. And so I try to stay completely aligned to that. There are certainly times where I know I also may get a little controversial in some of those things, but I do believe we have to be willing to get into good trouble, as former Congressman John Lewis would tell us and encourage us to do, because sometimes the stakes are just that high. And I would argue today, particularly in the workplace, if people aren't asking or challenging, you know, bad leaders or frankly bad managers for the role that they play on the mental health of their workforce. And frankly, what I call the life or death decision that a manager makes, it's a make or break it moment every day. You as a leader have a choice to either make it for that person or break it. And I'm just concerned that we have more break it than we actually have make it or thrive. And so that's the piece that I try to really stay focused on.

Brian Aquart 19:20

I love that. You know, you talk often in a lot of this, this, uh, these posts about the future of work and healthcare and education. What do you think leaders most misunderstand about it?

Geoffrey Roche 19:32

I think they absolutely misunderstand and also misconstrue the power and ingenuity that the younger generations have when it comes to the workplace. I mean, I'm certainly an elder millennial, and so I'm starting to get older, you know, on that trajectory. But as somebody who is so committed to being a voice for those younger generations to make sure they get to the table and can start to really have the voice and the influence that's absolutely necessary, I am always reminded of how bad it truly is. There's so much judging and criticizing rather than saying, hey, tell us your views, tell us what you want. I think about even in like when I look at like learning and development, so much of learning and development, so much of our education system has been designed and developed at a time that's not really in touch with the reality of today. And so I think it's incumbent upon people. Yes, if you're in those leadership roles, I get it, but go out and spend time with them. Do some A-B testing, go back to some basics and think about human-centered design. Everyone has a role to play. And just because, just because they're different or we're different, just because their thoughts on things are different, just because they care more about corporate social responsibility, they care more about the environment, they care more about LGBTQ, they care more about humanity, shouldn't mean we judge them. It actually should mean let's learn from them. Because I actually think when we do, we actually find there's actually some incredible shared purpose. And so that's what I would say to that. And I see it time and time again large, small, medium-size, all. Even at Siemens, I did not see that true desire to want to understand the full spectrum of that community.

Brian Aquart 21:16

Yeah, I completely agree. I think that's why we get along so well, because we we work a lot with the the younger demographics. So I I love, love that you mentioned that. And to that point, and for those who may not be aware, you know, Jeffrey is is deeply involved in career-connected education and workforce development. And so, Jeffrey, uh, along those lines, what's what do you think is working nowadays and what still needs to change to make some of these pathways sustainable across healthcare and education?

Geoffrey Roche 21:43

Yeah, I think in many ways we have to certainly develop the new frontier of higher education, right? I mean, we still have a significant barrier when it comes to accreditation, when it comes to the regulatory environment. We still sort of have an environment. Where we separate the idea of work and education for sure. And so when I think about, you know, all the incredible work leaders like you are doing around career connected education, we as a nation have to decide to embrace and move forward in changing the higher ed system into a more of a degree apprenticeship, an apprenticeship degree. You should be able to earn skills and certificates and certifications and credentials and have that lead to a much quicker degree, all on the job versus in the classroom. Not everyone wants to learn in the classroom. And frankly, the idea of the workplace is a learning laboratory. And so I think we've got to really get back to the basics there. We've seen it in the trades. I recognize there are limitations when we think about spaces like healthcare, but I'm sick and tired of hearing from accreditors in the regulatory environment say you can't do it. You can do it. We see it around the world. I saw in my work at Siemens around the world. We can do it. You can do it sustainably. And I also think it's a model that gives people an opportunity to choose how they want to learn. Some want to be in the classroom, but some will want and need to be in the workplace and learn. It's actually how you actually create true career and economic mobility. The second thing I would say is there has to be a better way of leveraging the whole workforce system and all the funding that's involved there. I'm not so sure it's workforce Pell, which is obviously getting a lot of talk right now. I think, like everything, I think they got to ask the practitioners, like ask the people actually doing the work. What do you think would be systemic to actually lift up communities and really create career and economic mobility? I think all the work that we do in this space should always be about long-term economic and career mobility for both the individual but also for their families. Because that's actually how we lift everything up. And I don't know why that still seems to be more political. That to me is everyone benefits truly from economic development. And so that's some of the thoughts I would say.

Brian Aquart 23:48

Yeah. You know, in your teaching and speaking, what do you think is one story that captures this gap between how leadership is taught and then how it's actually lived? Because I think some of the points you raise give give insight to that.

Geoffrey Roche 24:03

You know, it's really interesting because I mean, as someone who's doing his doctorate now in leadership, I'm also constantly reminded that the way we teach leadership, in my opinion, is also wrong. I mean, they're really based on some very old literature that, frankly, I don't think is in any way in touch with what we see or experience nine times out of ten in the workplace. I mean, yeah, I mean, you could talk about like transformational leadership as a theory, and we could talk about transactional leadership as a theory, but let's be honest. I mean, even your most transformational leaders also have opportunities to be more heart-centered, also have opportunities to be more people focused. I would suggest that, like when we look at the aspect of leadership, we probably have missed what I consider to be some of the most important pieces. And that would be really the power of mentorship. I don't think you can be a leader, in my opinion, if you can't effectively create a culture of mentorship. I don't think you could be a leader if you can't create an effective culture of feedback where both you give it and you're comfortable receiving it. I mean, it gets talked about a lot, right? But I don't think you could be a leader if you really don't know how to create a culture where people are able to be who they are, whether we want to call and, you know, go deeper and call it psychological safety or not. Because I know some people feel that that's not as important. At the end of the day, I don't think we've prepared people to understand that one of the ultimate responsibility of a leader is to make sure people are feel or make sure people know that they're heard, they're cared for, they're thought about, and that they always have someone who's going to make sure that they are supported. And I just think that we've we've focused too much on like theories. We haven't actually focused enough on practicality in this work. And, you know, again, even when I'm studying it now and preparing for my dissertation, I'm even more frustrated at times because the more and more I dig into it, it's like we're just perpetuating what I would consider a systemic challenge, frankly.

Brian Aquart 26:00

Yeah, no, I think that that's a good point. You know, let's go back to the some of the education work that's happening. A lot of health systems, obviously mine included, uh, are joining education partnerships, but not always sharing in the funding or upside, right? Obviously, I'll take us out of that because you know, we are are a recipient of some very large funding. But what lessons have you learned about structuring those types of collaborations for real impact?

Geoffrey Roche 26:27

What I've definitely learned is that the employer has to be the leader and has to be at the center of it. I don't believe, and again, I've been on both ends, but generally I can't stress enough that when an employer is involved and engaged, I do believe mountains can be moved. And I'll give you, you know, I mean, you've seen it in your life. I've seen it many times where a healthcare system comes in and even says to an accreditor, why are you holding our academic partner back when we know we can do this? I mean, you know, uh Dr. Bridget Willie, uh, a dear friend of mine, I mean, Bridget has been truly a pioneer of taking on accreditors in a very proactive way and helping them to understand that you've got to change things to meet an employer-friendly model. And she's been successful to get three accreditors to move on things that were blocks in, you know, really creating three different apprenticeship degrees with her local technical college that are truly transforming her workforce at a time when it's so desperately needed. And so again, the employer being at the center of it is most critical. I think the academic partners have such a vital role to play, and we have to get away of this idea of education first and actually flip it. Industry first, education supplements the industry. And that's where I think educators have to get to. Uh, and I know for my colleagues in education, it's hard for them to accept that. But as someone that's walked both lives uh for my whole career, it's actually not that difficult to understand. It's the actual idea of an academy. It's just you're taking the academy and you're bringing it into the workplace. And so I think that piece is super critical. And then obviously alignment, right? Like it's not easy to align so many different parties in this work. But I think those that have done it, regardless of the funding, because the funding certainly helps, but I think those that have done it, what I have realized, and sometimes I've had to broker some of those types of discussions and be, you know, maybe the annoying voice in there to say enough is enough, is that when you stay rooted on the mission and the purpose and you look at life-changing work that you're doing, I don't know why, frankly, we make it so difficult. I think sometimes we choose to make it difficult because we think this won't work. But actually, when you sit back and think what it's going to do for those kids, those families, those communities, I mean, as you know directly, it's life-changing, but it's also so transformational for the entire city community, etc.

Brian Aquart 28:47

Yeah, I couldn't agree more. I think the that piece around industry first is likely a a tough pill for educators to swallow. But one of the things I'll I'll highlight is that I think that you know, if if the goal, if the goal of the school is to place you know, and don't get me wrong, it's more than job placement, but job placement is a goal, right? And you want to place them into the industry, wouldn't you want to be industry first, right? And so it's like it's it's like a logical step that at times isn't so logical from an understanding standpoint. So I know exactly what what you mean by that. So question for you now. Obviously, you just moved in into a new role now, and not trying to take you out of that. But if you had to think about some of the things we've we've even talked about now, if you had to leave your current role tomorrow, what's the first thing you'd build next? Because you you sound like a builder, and I know you are a builder, right? And so what's the first thing you'd build next?

Geoffrey Roche 29:44

Yeah. You know, it's really interesting. You know, I think in many ways, a lot of people have really encouraged me as part of this journey to really think about building more around the work that I do in the speaking space. Uh, and really, you know, thinking further about, you know, can I go into that motivational speaker lens around the work that I've done and my life, my journey in a way that becomes transformational from an employer perspective and also, you know, more from an individual perspective. That's definitely a space that I would definitely uh further focus on for sure. I think I've always enjoyed, you know, the consulting space that I've done as well. I could foresee, you know, kind of a combination between those two. I will say I've always, though, besides those things, always sort of had in my, you know, back pocket this idea that at some point in my career I do want to be a CEO. Because I I still in my mind have this theory, regardless of, you know, the type of organization, it would have to be something in the education and healthcare space, that could I be that next Kathy? Because when I look at what Kathy did for me and so many others, I you know certainly remember her saying to me, there was no better role or opportunity for her to have to end her career than the work she did at our healthcare system. And when I look at not just the impact she had on me, but so many others, if I, you know, could have that same level of impact, I think it would be certainly a dream fulfilled.

Brian Aquart 31:04

Think about corporate, what did leaving that space teach you about your own resilience and adaptability?

Geoffrey Roche 31:10

Yeah. It absolutely taught me to, in many ways, further always just trust your gut. You know, I can remember, you know, really wrestling uh, you know, with it, right? I mean, to your point, right, when you're in an when you're in that large of an environment, great brand, um, there is definitely some stability uh for sure. But it absolutely reminded me that in life, some of the most important pieces, frankly, are, you know, being authentic, being and feeling healthy. Now, I can remember actually my family and some of my closest friends will say to me now, you're so much happier. You're so much more relaxed. So during your corporate environment time, it seemed like you were always stressed. And I think about that from, you know, just a mind, body, spirit end. I mean, certainly there are times where I'm certainly, you know, still stressed at times now. But I can remember when I was considering what my next opportunity was. You know, in fact, I remember I had a final, my final interview in New York City with my now boss. And I remember walking away after that four hours where I almost missed my flight because the conversation was just so rich that I remember thinking to myself, there was so much that my boss now D reminded me of Kathy. And so, you know, for me, I remember after I had that conversation, I was like, this is an absolute no-brainer. And, you know, now that I'm almost five months in, I see so many things that do remind me of Kathy from a leadership standpoint, but also just from a person standpoint. At times when I was there at Siemens, I almost felt like I was just part of a machine. I didn't feel that there was a lot of genuine concern or care for us as people, but more just part of that machine. And I'm not suggesting that may be the case for everyone, but that's how I felt. And so getting to that understanding and then realizing that that does not have to be the case was very important for me.

Brian Aquart 33:04

Would love for you to share some advice to some of our audience members here, especially those who are mid-career professionals who might be thinking about a pivot. Because some of the feedback I get, it's a wide variety, but there are folks in that space like, oh, I wonder if or should I do. What's one practical step they can take tomorrow if they're looking to make a career pivot?

Geoffrey Roche 33:27

Yeah. I would definitely suggest that A, always make sure your network is so strong. I mean, we all know it, but so much of what we do and where we land and what we think about will come through our network. Think about your personal brand. It makes truly makes a difference. You know, when you're interviewing or when you're considered for that next opportunity, if you have some aspect of a brand, they know it. And there's other aspects that become elements that they're going to evaluate that potentially make you the stronger candidate just on that type of work alone. Because companies need that. I would also just suggest like always think deeply about what is best for you. I mean, these decisions are not easy, but if you if you can sit and evaluate it and say, you know, this job, this environment is not healthy for me, then what would it look like if it was? And really have that clear grounding. Because you never know if the grass will be greener on the other side. But hopefully you can get a become a better judge of it. And then when you do, you know, when you do get to the point of considering where that next opportunity is, remember that you have just as much of a decision as they do. And so challenge them to understand what their culture is really like. Even if it's, even if you have to say to them, hey, I want to like, I'd love to come and observe the team. Those types of things are becoming more common where people are asking to have that type of experience versus just the interview experience. I think those types of things are super critical. Um, and then finally, I would say like trust your gut. I mean, I think we we oftentimes in this space almost wear ourselves down so much over, you know, yes, we want to leave, but we're worried about this. I would say trust your gut because ultimately, if your mindset has already gotten you to the point where you're thinking about leaving, you're gonna leave at some point. And so give thought to what that plan looks like and make it happen.

Brian Aquart 35:16

You know, with all the specifically healthcare and other industry, but there's a lot of leadership transitions that are happening and truthfully that you've observed. You know, what advice would you have for now the executives stepping into these really big roles after transformative predecessors?

Geoffrey Roche 35:35

Yeah. I would suggest, you know, it's never easy when you follow a transformative predecessor for sure. You know, I can remember even when our, you know, when Kathy resigned or retired, I mean, she was sort of, unfortunately, the board moved her out because she wouldn't do a deal that they thought was important and they brought their own person in. Sometimes we know that happens in in healthcare. But not that I hold a grudge against them for that, but still was not a happy moment in in my career at that time. But long story short, in that, even she told me, she said, Jeffrey, let it go. Uh, you're gonna see this. It impacted me. You seem more upset than I am. Like, let it go. But I would encourage them to be who they are. You know, really deeply think about what it is that they want to make a mark on. And don't just think about it from like a strategy perspective. Think about it from a person perspective. Because even the most transformational leaders may not have had the most transformation in the people side of it. You know, if you're a leader that's coming into an organization, if you want to really make a mark on people today, get deep down into the front lines of that organization. Listen to them and hear where their needs and their concerns are and invite them into the solution process. Because nine times out of 10, they're going to tell you and know exactly what the problems were. I tell people all the time when uh our new CEO of my system came in, his name was Jeff and my name was Jeff Ree, but he was not engaged like Kathy was. So I would go into the emergency room on the third shift at times because I had the EMS service line under me administratively just to see how our teams were doing. And people thought I was the CEO because I came in with the same name. So I use that to my advantage at times a little bit, you know, if I needed to, for example. But the reality of that was is people do like to see leaders on those, you know, when they're doing that critical work, they like to see them when they're actually caring for them. And so my advice is be deeply intentional about that. Really make them understand that you are there to listen first, tell them what's needed. Listen, listen, listen, I think is super critical. And the final point I would make is find a way for people to see you as a resource. I think when leaders can truly be transformational, it actually is creating that process where they're a resource. You know, I remember I had a senior VP early in my career, actually at my same healthcare system, who sometimes would make you nervous as a leader, but I see exactly why he was doing it. So he had a model where he would meet with all of your direct reports, even though he had a lot of his own direct reports, he would meet with my direct report. Because he always wanted to get a pulse on were his leaders performing at the level that he needed them to to support the team to perform at the level that we all needed them to. And I wouldn't know it until the team would say, Hey, I just saw your boss. We had a great conversation. And then later in the day, my boss would call me and say, Hey, I heard from so-and-so and things are going really well over there. And I'd be like, What are you talking about? And he's like, I had my own meeting. It was powerful though. I see why he was doing it. He wasn't doing it to make me uncomfortable. He was doing it to make sure I was in alignment with the team and the team was in alignment with me, and we were collectively in alignment with the cascading goals. And it's no shock we had the highest engagement scores of the entire healthcare system continually every year because he created a culture where no one was afraid to talk to him. And all of us were always committed to everything that was most important to our organization. And people was the first step he always said. And so I think that there's elements like that that you can do in a healthy manner that creates a culture that truly becomes more transformative.

Brian Aquart 39:05

You know, now looking ahead, what kind of impact do you still hope to make in this next phase of your career?

Geoffrey Roche 39:12

Yeah. You know, I think um, you know, to your point, I I do enjoy building. And so my work now is very much about building, you know, continuing to, you know, not just build teams, but build, you know, products, build solutions. Certainly hope to have continue to have an impact in as we think about how do you build a sustainable, future-ready healthcare workforce. Certainly hope to also bring more stakeholders together in a scalable way, particularly to your point around career connectedness. You know, I hope to also, yes, funding is always important, but I hope to help people find ways to do it when there may not be that much funding, because there still are creative ways to do things when we think about it strategically and impactfully. And then I think hopefully being someone who both can respectfully challenge, but also encourage a new culture of leadership for sure. Not just in the work that I do, but hopefully throughout the work that all of us do.

Brian Aquart 40:07

Now let's flip the mic. Would love for you to ask me what what's one question you have for me that I can hopefully answer?

Geoffrey Roche 40:15

Yeah. You know, I'm curious when you look at particularly all the work you've done in these conversations with people here on why I left, there has to be some consistent themes that have kind of risen to the top. I'm just curious, like when you look at some of them, do you believe there are actual scalable solutions that people could actually act upon and make the necessary changes so that it would allow people to actually thrive both personally and professionally?

Brian Aquart 40:42

Great question. And the answer is yes. I think the, you know, the origins of the show having come from the pandemic, and then obviously now that we've expanded, the constant theme has been overcoming fear. And whether regardless of industry and truthfully regardless of geography, there is a certain level of fear that we all have about pivoting to something new or something different. And oftentimes people think, you know, career transits, people just every everyone's trying to be an entrepreneur and do all that stuff. And truly, that's that's not the case, right? Some of it, of course, yes, it is. But oftentimes it's not the case. It's about so fear is the one thing. The other theme is it's purpose. It's people are, when they pivot, they're pivoting for purpose. They are looking for ways to do things that are true to themselves. To your point, you wanted to work for a space for an organization that valued who you were authentically. And when you didn't feel that you were valued there, it was time for you to go. People ask themselves those questions and and have the same feelings you had and stay and live to at times, unfortunately, regret it. And that leads to a whole host of other issues, the stress and the mental health issues and all of that. And I'm not, it's not a knock to them. I'm just, it's just these are real things that happen. So overcoming fear, finding your purpose are two huge themes of the show that I didn't truthfully, I didn't seek out that. I just it just naturally occurred. And so to your other point then around, well, what do we do to create spaces in which people can thrive? I think there are ways in which, and what I love, I love your focus on branding. I'm also focused not only on my personal, personal brand and leadership brand, but helping others build theirs. It's about doing those things. I think people need to share and tell their stories online. Nobody better to tell their your story than you. And you and I, Jeffrey, we could, you know, we had that conference in Dallas, two different points of view from sitting from our seats. Both of those points of views are valid because they come from our own lived experiences. And so now this fear, this purpose, and really trying to find that, those are some of the things that I'm truthfully helping people out with now. And there are ways in which you can help folks better see what is it that you're actually looking for. But you have to not only so in my case, I'm asking them the hard questions, but you have to be open and ready to answer those questions. Yep. Yep. And then we build from there. Yeah. Perfect. Yeah. So great question. Uh well, Jeffrey, look, I want to just thank you for joining the show today. We've known each other for some time, and I'm I'm glad we're showing up in all of our different spaces. And that collective you're building, look, you ever need you ever need someone in the healthcare space, you know how to reach me. Absolutely. But I'm glad we are staying connected, even in your new role, and would love for you to share where our listeners can support and find all the work that you're doing.

Geoffrey Roche 43:42

Yeah, happy to connect on LinkedIn. Always the best, you know, great, great source there is always happy to connect. Perfect.

Brian Aquart 43:47

I will look, I'll be sure to share all of that info in our show notes, and that'll do it for today's episode. Again, I want to thank my guest, Jeffrey Rowers, for joining me today. I hope you all have a great week. And we'll definitely see you next time. Jeffrey, thank you. Thank you as well. Thanks for listening to why I left. Join us next time for more inspiring stories about growth, resilience, and transformation. Visit us online at www.yeleft.co. That's whyileft.co.