What a Hollywood Stunt Coordinator Knows About Risk and Leadership - Don Lee

Don Lee built a career around risk, but his biggest transition was not physical. It was learning how to stop thinking only about his own performance and start carrying responsibility for everyone else on set.

Don is a stunt coordinator, fight coordinator, second unit director, and action designer whose credits include Pirates of the Caribbean: At World’s End, Transformers: Age of Extinction, Dawn of the Planet of the Apes, Cobra Kai, and Tulsa King. In this conversation, he shares how martial arts opened the door to stunt work, why he chose to begin coordinating at 35, and how a life-changing project in India reshaped the way he communicates, leads, and protects people.

This episode is for anyone in a high-pressure career who is asking whether it is time to evolve. Don talks about ego, safety, money, invisibility, team trust, and the quiet discipline it takes to become the calmest person in the room when the stakes are real.

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Transcript

Don Lee 0:43

I remember just being in the flames and engulfed and being like, this isn't hurting me. Anytime you do a fire burn, it's kind of like any situation we're in. If you start getting warm, that's the time you bring it up. Don't tell me when you're hot, because by the time you're hot, it's too late, you're burnt. I don't ever want to be in still waters in at work, in life, and anything, because you like there's you can relax. Sure, you can breathe into it, you can feel the calm. But I think being too comfortable, that's when mistakes happen. You kind of get to work with so many great coordinators and so many great directors that you have seen how things should be done and how things should not be done. And so, in learning those things, either be the guy at 45 trying to learn or be the guy at 35 trying to learn. I just decided to be the 35-year-old trying to learn.

Brian Aquart 1:25

Welcome to Why I Left, a podcast exploring life-changing career moves. I'm your host, Brian Aquart. Join me as I chronicle real stories from real people about the bold decisions that transform their careers and lives. Let's dive in. Hello, and thanks for tuning in to this episode of Why I Left. What happens when the job you love is built on risk? But leadership demands restraint. Today's guest, Don Lee, has spent his career designing some of the most dangerous moments in film and television while carrying a responsibility most audiences never see, making sure everyone goes home safe. Don works behind the scenes in an industry that rewards spectacle, yet he's built his career on preparation, trust, and knowing when to push the edge. This is a conversation about invisible leadership, evolving relationships with risk, and the quiet choices that shape longevity. Let's go check it out. All right, welcome back. So our guest today is Don Lee, a stunt coordinator, fight coordinator, and second unit director working at the highest levels of film and television. Don has contributed to projects like Pirates of the Caribbean at World's End, Transformers, Age of Extinction, Dawn of the Planet of the Apes, Cobra Kai, and most recently Tulsa King. But titles only tell part of the story. Don describes himself as an action designer, someone focused not on ego or spectacle, but on serving the story while protecting the people who bring it to life. His career has required a shift from performer to leader, from taking personal risk to carrying responsibility for others, and from visibility to intention. So it's only fitting that Don joins us to close out season five of Why I Left, which has been a season about evolution, responsibility, and the choices we make when the stakes are real. So today we're going to talk about safety as leadership, humility in a perception-driven business, and the moments that force you to decide who you want to be next. So, Don, welcome to Why I Left, man. How are you doing? Man, I'm doing great.

Don Lee 3:51

Thank you so much for having me. Thank you for uh welcoming to your audience. Uh man, that was a heck of an introduction. I'll tell you that. Wow, man. I was like, I got chill. So thank you so much, man. And I'm um, like I said, I'm honored to be here.

Brian Aquart 4:03

No, glad uh that we got connected. I always like to give a shout-out to the people who who connect me with guests. And so, so Gita Pulapilly from a former PLS colleague as well, put us in touch. And I'm so glad that she did because it's just always great to meet great people who are doing great work in and around uh the nation. So thank you uh for agreeing to join the show. Would love for us to talk a little bit about like your background and early career as we as we get into this. You know, you've spent your career behind the scenes of some of the most dangerous moments audiences never never really think twice about, right? So how did how did you originally find your way into stunt work?

Don Lee 4:45

Man, it's a funny story. I always tell people I kind of just fell into it. No pun intended, but actually, yes, because uh it was through martial arts. I had a martial arts background. Basically, back in, I would say in 1994, we had a tournament called the Dragon Classic. And in this uh tournament, there were two movie roles that were getting given to the grand champion. There was an adult division that was 18 and over, and then there was a juniors division that was 17 and younger. And so going through this tournament, I made it up to the finale as a junior, and between me and this other kid named Jimmy Pam, and Jimmy Pam won. And um, I was there with my dad, and he kind of just wanted to ask the judges, like, what did they see? What could I have done better? And I think just having that kind of uh being 14, and I guess I don't know, just having the you know courage to talk to these guys, say, hey, what could I have done better? And and uh these director, this his name is Arc Camacho, really liked me, said, Hey, you kind of look like this kid named Jonathan Brandis, who just did this movie called Psychics with Chuck Norris. And he was like, Man, did you ever think about doing stunts? How about we put you in as one of the people who fights our main star, TJ Roberts? So I said, Great, I would love to do that. So my dad afforded me the opportunity to go there to drive me from Imperial Valley, California, to drive there for two days to go work on a movie called The Power Within. And um, that was my first movie experience. And from that moment on, I told my dad this is what I want to do for the rest of my life.

Brian Aquart 6:11

I love that. You know, you know, early on, what did success look like to you in this type of industry?

Don Lee 6:19

I think success to me early on was being able to have a career that I didn't have to have a side job. A lot of people who work in the film business, you know, have, you know, or baristas, waiters, have some type of side hustle to go ahead and get their foot in the door and try to keep this dream alive. My to me, having a success was to say that this was my job. This was like, you know, nothing's ever guaranteed. And I think being able to have opportunities to continue to this to be the only job I would have would be a stunt man, that would be that would be huge. So if it was working on TV, working on film, it didn't matter. I just wanted to be a working stunt performer at that time.

Brian Aquart 6:59

And one of the things that fascinated me a lot when we when I initially got connected with you and then I obviously did my background or at least tried to do my background on you, is that you've chosen to stay largely invisible in an industry that rewards visibility. So at what point did that become a value and not just a habit?

Don Lee 7:21

Um I think if anything, if it became a value, I think it's um maybe became more of a conversation piece as in why. And it's uh which makes me really interested also in your show because it's the why. It's the why factor that always makes it interesting. So I think to me, a lot of people are like, well, why is it this guy? He's got a resume, and I felt like just through reputation and the way the business was done before uh social media, because I'd say that I'd started making a career out of this back in 2001. So this has kind of just been my career. I've kind of just it's been a reputation base. It's people who recommend, it's through the network of people who know you, know you, and the people who don't, don't. And there's something to be said about that. So I think that it's it's definitely harder to meet newer people, but the people that I do meet, it's always a solid recommendation.

Brian Aquart 8:08

Yeah. So and I think that's that's so true. And I as I was going down that path, I was like, wow, I was like, man, like he he's done it. You know, like he's like he's actually done it. And you know, when we talked a little bit about that, one of the things you did you did recognize, or did you at least uplift was that at times it may cost opportunities as well. And so so when did when did you realize that kind of going down this route of, you know, like you said, staying invisible and and and really going off, you know, references and things like that, they may actually cost you opportunities. And and why did you then decide, you know, look, that's okay.

Don Lee 8:46

It's funny. I think it uh, you know, I think for me is that I I just accepted it. It's okay. It's something I don't really, to me, I've never, you know, had a massive presence uh presence on social media about it that may change. Um just because funny enough, after our initial conversation, I had a meeting for a show over this past weekend. And one of the biggest things they said is like Don, you don't have a social media presence. You need to work on that. I go, you gotta be kidding me. This is so funny. Just had this conversation with Brian, and now you're bringing this up. So did it cost me? I don't know if it did or didn't, but I think the conversation piece came into as in why. Like you're so your resume speaks for itself. And and I just said, Yeah, my work speaks for itself. I I don't feel like we're having this conversation. You know, I don't think I need a list of followers or people who like what I do for a living. I think they like the projects that I work on. If we do good work, people are gonna watch it.

Brian Aquart 9:35

You know, this show, as we're as I mentioned, you know, we're we're closing out season five here, and and the big theme of this show is career decisions, career transitions, and all of those things. What I what I loved about your work is that, you know, you've stayed true to what you're doing, but you've kind of shifted a bit, right? And so as we talk about stunt work, it definitely has a shelf life, right? Was there a moment when you realized your relationship to risk had actually changed?

Don Lee 10:02

You know, it wasn't, I don't think necessarily relationship with risk has changed if so much as far as the conversation I had, and we're gonna give, you know, people shots out uh shout-outs on this. I gotta say thank you to my mentor, Mike Gunther, who runs 5150 um action. He was the guy who told me he goes on at age around in my mid-30s or so, just saying that, hey, at this time, you can either have a career and still doing this at five 45 or so, then enter the coordinating world. And that's gonna be about the expectation that when you start coordinating, people expect you to know what you're talking about, or you take the risk at a young 35 because at age 35, uh, people are like less likely to forgive you for making or not knowing things. And it's not to say that it's because I'm doing huge movies at 35. That's where you start with the indie films. You got to work your way up with starting with the things that you know and then learning as you go along. But being fortunate enough to work on um small films, medium-sized films, big films, $300 million movies, you kind of get to work with so many great coordinators and so many great directors that you have seen how things should be done and how things should not be done. And so in learning those things, I think at that age is basically what Mike told me, goes, man, you gotta, you know, either pick a decision, either be the guy at 45 trying to learn or be the guy at 35 trying to learn. So I just decided to be the 35-year-old trying to learn.

Brian Aquart 11:30

I like that. You know, how for those who may be unfamiliar, how would you best describe stunt work to them?

Don Lee 11:38

I would say that stunt work is a it's very uh fun, excited, calculator risks job that no two days are ever the same. And it's event it's an adventure. And it's something I look forward to work waking up every single morning doing because you never know where you're gonna get into. And it's always a challenge to figure out what that story is gonna be, what we're telling through that action, and uh how it's all gonna come together, and more importantly, how to not only keep our performers safe, but how to keep the crew safe as well.

Brian Aquart 12:08

And you when you were in that that space, so obviously, like like you mentioned, it was time for you to eventually step away. But when when did you realize, like, look, I'm I'm okay now at this stage, stepping away from being kind of the player who is doing the stunts now to like coordinating?

Don Lee 12:25

You know, it's interesting. It it took some time because there's a lot of times where I think having the years of experience, you're trying to help the next younger person that's stepping into your role is also something Mike taught me as well. I had to physically sometimes I would demonstrate what they're doing wrong or this is how you should do the stunt. Where Mike's like, if you want to become a great coordinator and a great teacher, learn how to communicate and articulate your words to get what you want without showing people those things because at age 60, you're not gonna be able to do that. So I said, wow, good point. So I think it was really tough in the beginning because you have to fight ego and being like, man, if I was just doing this, I would do this so much, like I could have done that so much better, but I just would have got this done quicker and we would have got the tapes moved on. And then maybe that was the hardest part for me early on was learning how to communicate. And the one biggest thing is that it's such a alpha male, the competitive nature of being a sports person, just like, let's go and get there. Let's like, it's like this whole like um, I don't know if it's like a bravado, but you have, and sometimes that's not really necessarily the best way to get things done as a team or as a person that is in charge of people's safety.

Brian Aquart 13:34

Yeah.

Don Lee 13:35

I think you can carry that bravado when I was when I was performing because it's about me doing this stuff. I can hype myself up. I can be like, man, I'm gonna get hit by this car. I'm gonna jump off this building, I'm gonna be lit on fire. Like being lit on fire is like one of the most surreal things you can ever be because it's something you would never think that you could do. And so I remember the first day of being on fire, it was like I did a did a minute burn with Mike, and we basically it's it's a crazy thing when you're uh it's like late cutting bed or something like that in California that we're at, and it was like three in the morning. And this is another thing I know, but so on one of your questions, we could talk about Hollywood doing better, but I was freezing, and like it was freezing outside, it was like November, and you have to do this whole like process of your gnomics and your fire safety suit being gelled 24 hours. It's a whole process that's gonna go through. But anyhow, it was like by that time, you're like lighting me on fire because I'm freezing. And when I did it, it was I remember just being in the flames and engulfed and being like, this isn't hurting me. And until you get so they have we have a theme uh with uh fire burners, and I have a theme actually with my team as well. Anytime you do a fire burn, it's kind of like any situation we're in. If you start getting warm, that's the time you bring it up. Don't tell me when you're hot, because by the time you're hot, it's too late, you're burnt.

Brian Aquart 16:08

Yeah, yeah.

Don Lee 16:09

So that's like the burn, but it's also like kind of like when things get tense on on our set, on our show with the team, like some, like we're doing big sequences and people are kind of like feeling the the energy of being like, man, things are like I don't know what's going on out like the heat. Don't tell me when it's hot, tell me when it's warm, and so we can solve this before it gets hot.

Brian Aquart 16:27

Yeah, yeah. Yeah. I love how you you mentioned this, this this break and like kind of the differences between performing the stunts yourself and now stepping into like the responsibility for everybody else's safety. You know, as you think about that, and especially with the the burning example that you mentioned, obviously you've been set on fire, but now you're you're leading people who at times you may have to set on fire, right? How did how did this shift change now that you're like overseeing people and coordinating these things? How did this shift change the way you actually carried stress, not just on set, but maybe even at home as well?

Don Lee 17:04

Um, I think as a performer, you know, you I I worried about myself and how I'm gonna do this and not letting down my the coordinator and you know, making sure that we got the shot and making sure I did a great job because that's my job. I need to make sure I'm gonna excel and do be the best I can be at that time. Now, as a coordinator, I have to not only think about that one performer, I have to think about all the performers and all the safety of the crew, who's gonna be there, who's paying attention, who's not paying attention, and to make sure that everybody's on the same page with our uh AD department or camera department or just the crew in general that's around and everyone making sure that it's as safe as possible and everyone's aware. It's it's a huge change. It goes from just worrying about yourself to worrying about everybody. And then when I get home at night, it's not a worry about if I like, hey, did I like, does my back hurt? Did I hurt my knee? Did I miss my, you know, you know, my recovering from, you know, whatever I'm recovering from injury that day or whatever, because it's always bruises, man. You're gonna have something. It's it's stunts. You signed up for it. This is what we do. So um, those are to me, I always carry those with like a badge of honor anytime as a as a person. But as a as a coordinator, you want to be preventative and you want to make sure you coach everybody in the right position to be in. Yeah, so that stress doesn't go away. That shows that stress never goes away because you when you're on a run of show, meaning that you're from start to finish, you think about those things all the time. I think at uh towards the end, I don't think it ever becomes something that ever goes away. Because if it is, then you're too comfortable. And being too comfortable is a is a terrible place to be. I don't ever want to be in still waters in in at work, in life, in anything, because you like there's you can relax, sure. You can breathe into it, you can feel the calm, but I think being too comfortable, that's when mistakes happen.

Brian Aquart 18:49

Yeah. That's a great point. And do you think was this like a natural evolution when you became a coordinator, or was there like a specific project or incident that forced you to rethink how you wanted to show up in this type of work?

Don Lee 19:02

Man, that's a great question, Brian, to be honest with you. I had a life-changing experience when I went to uh India to film a TV show called uh 1962, and I met a producer named uh Harsh David. Basically, this project I was out in India for nine months, and it completely changed the way I handled my business, the way I changed life, because I'm in a different country and I'm by myself. I don't have a team. And there's a language barrier. I think it made me slow down in the way I communicated and made me really connect with people versus just going by the numbers and kind of making it more of a transaction. Like, hey, you know your point, you know your job, let's do this, let's do it, and like not having a real connection, being like, let me look into the are you okay? Like, is everything all right? How's your day going? So then it just really kind of feeling what that person is and coaching them up and just being more, I don't know if it's if it's empathy, I think it's being a better communicator, and I think being out there for nine months is a completely different world. I was in uh Punchcane, Mumbai, and New Delhi, and harsh, I was so lucky to have this man in my life because he taught me the bare essential things about how rich I am. He goes, Don, you have a meal a day, you have a roof over your head, and you have clean water. You're wealthy. And when you're in India and you see these things, you you have to take back and realize, what are we chasing, man? And it just really put a calm in me to be more of a human and just be appreciative of life in general. Not that I wasn't before, but when you're there, it's a completely different thing to see the way people live versus the way we live.

Brian Aquart 20:45

Yeah, no, that that definitely sounds sounds eye-opening and kudos you for having that experience and then bringing it back to how you show up now on your respective sets. You know, some of the the themes I was thinking about as we're we're getting prepared for this, but in in this world of stunts and and all of these things, preparation is not something that is optional, right? Um and you gotta be really disciplined. How has that type of discipline shaped how you approach leadership and now decision making?

Don Lee 21:16

I would say that it's okay to take a pause. You don't have to answer so quick, breathe into it, digest it, process, and then explain. I think being having clarity in what you want to communicate and what you want to say, I think that was huge because uh I would say that the the experience in India was massive to me because it was a test of everything that I've learned in this business, and I was either gonna fail or I was gonna succeed. And it was a test to myself, and it was a test to what would be on screen because at the end of the day, I can't deny the art because I'm responsible for it. I had to direct these shots, I had to direct these units, and there was a massive responsibility that was laid on to me, and I didn't want to disappoint people, and I definitely didn't want to disappoint myself. So I think taking that time to just really have clarity and think about what you want to say and what you want to communicate was was massive. And I think that to me brought me back with more confidence, more clarity. And it's okay if people don't see you and don't agree with you. But as long as you want to get, as long as you are able to go and get what you need out of this. So when I say that, I know it kind of sounds generalized, in the film business, when you're trying to get something done, whether it's an interview, whether it's a sequence, when it's safe there, there is no compromise on that. It is what it is, or we should just change the action, change the scene. And if somebody doesn't feel like, I think in my approach to it would be there's always a will if there's a way, but you can't compromise these things. So if we can't have it because of mandates or whatever we may have, then let's go ahead and find a different solution. Because that's what I'm into. I'm into is finding the solution. And usually I think that calma approach is a lot more welcome to where I would have been years ago, being like, this is the only way to do it. We're either doing this or we're not doing this. And it's just a tough man attitude and bravado that I think that hurts our business and hurts people more than it does help. Because I think sometimes forcing people by having some type of a strong-headed approach versus like kind of a more of a I hate saying this, man, but it's like more like a bully approach. You don't want to be that person.

Brian Aquart 23:32

Yeah.

Don Lee 23:32

We're dealing, we're dealing with people's lives. Like you want to be the calmest person in the room because things are we're gonna be doing some crazy stuff. And that person, if you have that calmness, I believe that instills confidence in people and what we're doing, and we just go by the numbers. It's not a rush process because then if I'm trying to talk circles around you, that doesn't make anybody feel safe either.

Brian Aquart 23:52

Right.

Don Lee 23:53

I wanna make sure you are you good with what we're doing? Because if you are, then you understand that I understand. Then all right, let's go knock this out of the park. How much better does that make you feel as a person and as a team of us to accomplish this versus me telling, like, this is what we're doing. If you don't get it, then hey, just pay attention, just watch what we're doing. I don't feel part of this team. I feel left out completely. And then your producer goes, man, what a what kind of person is this guy? Okay, sure. I guess because Rasme speaks for itself and we just got to move forward.

Brian Aquart 24:21

Yeah. I I like that you mentioned that because what I'm what I'm hearing is is that, you know, especially in this type of, when I think of Hollywood in this type of industry, you know, always things want to be bigger and better and more dangerous. And that that's what sells, right? But what what I'm hearing from you is that you have, especially after this that trip, that you've been practicing and then implementing this level of restraint at times in an industry that rewards spectacle. Right. And so do you often find yourself kind of almost like battling between those two with folks, like you said, there may be a lot of bravado in in the industry as well, but battling with folks who may want to push the envelope just a little bit more?

Don Lee 25:02

I think if I was gonna battle, I'd be battling myself. Gotcha. I think I think if uh I think most people that you work on, I think the common goal is they they come to you for solutions as a coordinator being like, hey, we're gonna end up um, you know, doing this uh fight sequence, and there's uh there's there's gunplay involved, and a guy gets, you know, he's by a stove and the the stove explodes, and there's like these bombs that go off and wire work happens, and everyone's like, so Don, how do we do this? So I think instead of being there, you can be excited about it, but I think making people feel small in the room, which I've kind of seen from other people, you don't want to do that to people because this is a team effort. And if you don't get it, we can sidebar that conversation, come to me after this, after I've kind of talked to every department. I'm happy to go ahead and explain that to you. I think if anything, I just want people to feel more included. And sometimes, you know, uh it can invite other problems because then all of a sudden there becomes maybe a little bit of voices, like too many cooks in the kitchen. But let's make it clear it's one voice. It's it runs to the AD and it runs to the stunts when stunts are on deck. That's it. You know, but it's it's I think in a world of everything that you want to go ahead and make just people feel included because that's I think the biggest thing for me is when people feel included, you feel purpose. Well, the last thing you want to do is leave leave people out, man. And like, you know, it's a huge thing. I think also as being a human being, knowing people's names that you work with on set, how many people don't know each other's names on set?

Brian Aquart 26:25

Yeah.

Don Lee 26:26

That's a crazy, it's a crazy thing to me. I think just being that human and having that, I think also lets people feel entrusted in you. And I think that's that ables you when things may not go right on the day because things always change, you're able to say, Hey, Steve from Grips, I need XYZ, I need extra sandbags all of a sudden. He's like, dude, I got you, Don man. He says good morning every day. He knows I'm into my kids' ballgame this weekend. Like, I'm gonna look out for Don. Yeah. And then and then eventually you build this energy with people. People are like, hey, I just want to come, like, hey, Don, do you need anything? And it's not coming from a place of like uh like a CYA where they're covering their ass. They're actually like, hey, I'm part of this Don's team. Like, I might have been in his department, but I'm gonna help that guy out. And I think that kind of kindness and that energy is what I feel like to me, I just have that approach. I think I learned that when I was in India, just training the martial arts, just trying to make people feel included.

Brian Aquart 27:14

Yeah. Yeah, I think that makes a lot of a lot of sense. And I think, as you've mentioned, it it builds that trust, which I imagine is everything on on set, you know, especially building it quickly with with cast and crews and all those things. You know, this controlled chaos, as as you like to call it. Like you do this for for a living. You know, when you think about that, like like building that trust, and then now the teams who are a part of it, what separates like a good team from a great one when the stakes are so high?

Don Lee 27:46

Oh, great question. Um, I think when you have a great team, is you basically uh, man, the you guys are in sync. You guys, you guys prep, you are all on the same page. I think when you come in to do a pretty massive sequence, that everybody has their role. You know, you have your coordinator, your assistant coordinator, your fight coordinator, and you let the chain of command speak for itself and set the tone in the room. And I think when you walk in, you're like, man, those guys are dialed in. Like everybody's mitigating some kind of small feat, but no one's like everyone's kind of swimming in their lane. And when you see a unit work like that, you go, man, those guys are just in sync, and you just want to kind of fall in place with those guys. Versus a team who you have one guy who's kind of yelling at people, telling them what to do. Maybe that performer who's about to perform, he'd a great performer, but he's like, Oh, it's just another day in the office. I'm gonna be flying off this building. Let me go ahead and be on my phone, maybe post some things on Instagram, disconnected. And I think being on your phone at the end, most like if you're on our like if you're performing, that's a big pep pee for me. If you're performing, you're on set, don't be on your phone. And I don't know how many times, especially in this generation, people are texting, posting, oh, I need to text my girlfriend or I need to text my boyfriend, whatever it may be that you're doing, whatever you're doing, like stop. You're at work. Like if you're paying attention to your phone, you're not paying attention to your stunt. You're not paying attention to the rest of the crew. It's a it's a it's to me, it's kind of a it's just a disrespectful thing to do, I think, in general. So it's like, hey, do it on your lunch break. Just because we're on set, we're not an office, don't be on your phone.

Brian Aquart 29:22

What's what's something that you think Hollywood may get wrong about risk that the rest of us could learn from?

Don Lee 29:29

I think, you know, I thought about this question and I was thinking, man, like, man, I think if anything, it hasn't happened in a long time, but something they did before is that they would save the biggest stunt at the end of the day. So you're working a 12, 14-hour shift, and then let's say, okay, let's get this stunt done. We only have 30 minutes. That's ludicrous to me. That's like talk about icing the kicker for 14 hours. You got a performer that's there who hasn't had any food. There was no conversation, it's like, oh, we might do this after lunch. Oh, no, we're gonna end up losing this actor at this time, so we got to go ahead and do this. And those are all things we've all had to deal with. And anybody who is knows the business, that's one of the things that we go through. And I think uh that's that hasn't happened in many years. But I would say, you know, sometimes it, I mean, it's not to say that it couldn't happen, but another thing I would say is that minimizing the preparation for what you need. There's one thing to go ahead and cut the fat off the budget, meaning like, hey, we can we do this to send with five guys, can we do this with three guys? But the one thing is, and uh, you don't want to cut the muscle. So you if it's if it's a five guy minimum that we need to make this thing safe, you got to trust in this five guys. This is what it is. And I think sometimes you got to fight for those things. And the other thing too is in those cases, it's not so much it's the why. Why can't we have this? Oh, we don't have the money for this, but we want this, we want this stunt, but we got to do this. But let me explain to you why we need the five guys and what the roles are. And then I think a lot of times people will always shut those things down and go, no, it is what it is. But if if you don't know what it is, Brian, I'm asking you, like, I don't know why this is. It's an honest question. Then let me explain to you what it is. Isn't it my job to justify what we need to make it safe?

Brian Aquart 31:11

Yeah.

Don Lee 31:11

So let me just it shouldn't be a very uh because I said so kind of a attitude. It should be go, cool, we're a team, right? Let's be a part of this. This is why this is gonna be successful, Mr. UPM, because of you. Allowing us to do our job and everyone's got a hand in it.

Brian Aquart 31:25

Yeah. You know, one of the things that um really stuck out with me in our initial chat too was around how you approach leadership in your role now. And you say there's a it's a healthy distance, right? But you you maintain, you know, a level of distance between yourself and and the folks that you work with, right? Some people, I would imagine, may mistake distance for coldness. But how do you approach or how do you balance approachability with authority, especially when safety is on the line?

Don Lee 31:55

Uh it's an interesting process because at the end of the day, I have a job to do. We all have a job to do. You try to be cordial to everybody, but there's a lot of times you'll meet people who just want to buddy buddy you and try to bro you up. I'm not into that. Even with the guys who I'm closest with, I'm not that way with you and said either. Like, we got a job to do. I'm cool with saying good morning. How are you? Or, you know, because you guys can go, man, and it I have no problem. Those guys having conversations among each other, they'll be like, oh, Don kind of just walked away. And and people sometimes misread that. But if you ever have a conversation and be like, why did you walk away, Don? Just instead of being like, Why are you so distance or why is this? And it's funny to me because it's like guys who I've called back were like, man, I didn't know if you liked me or not in the beginning. And they're like, You're so intimidating. I get that a lot on said and stuff. And I'm like, I go, man, I'm just I'm locked in. I go, think about it. What do you have to worry about today? And they're like, uh, making sure I do a good job and not making you mad. I said, how would you make me mad? I'm like, just you're if you do a good job, man, I'm always like, I'm the first one to be like, man, great job. Congratulate people. Let's let's get a good, you know, have a great day and blah, blah, blah. I'll see you on the next one. And to me, calling those people back is always kind of the reward, I think, for both of us because now we built a relationship. I didn't know you before. I have a new Rolodex of young guys that I use and and girls that I use as well. And like those are the people I like. And like, it's just funny because after time, they're like, man, I didn't know if you liked me or not. I'm just like, hey, I'm just locked in. And I just want other people to be locked in too. And they're like, man, I get it. That's cool. I like that. Like, I like that, you know, and so people like that energy. And so those guys, when I call them on and younger people are like, I don't know. Obviously, if you're having a conversation with somebody else, like, especially with your director and we're directing a shot, that's probably the last time you want to come out and say, Hey, good morning, Don, and interrupt that conversation. But man, it happens more times than not. And it's just, it's really interesting about etiquette sometimes, about how it's almost a forgotten, like a forgotten lost art. Because we're not in an office, we're not in a structured business. No one ever tells you how to do things on set. That's the hardest thing I think for young people to learn is like, when do you say hello to somebody? When do you not say hello to somebody and how to read the room? It's an it's an interesting thing. Yeah.

Brian Aquart 33:59

You know, I would love for you to share some lessons learned as you've as you've thought about, you know, all the transitions that that you've made. And and want to take you back, looking back to like how you've transitioned from doer to leader. What's one thing that you underestimated about that transition?

Don Lee 34:19

Underestimated from doer to leader. I would say underestimating, I think, was the amount of communication and thought you have to put into what you're saying and doing, because now I'm an authority over people hear you. And you have to really think clearly about what you're saying at certain times versus just being off the cus and be like, oh, you know what I mean. No, I don't. You can't say I you can't say those things to people, man. So I think that kind of like lacks the days of conversation. Like when you're explaining stunts for safety, what we're doing, I'm not talking to my stunt team. I'm talking to people who don't have experience, don't really know, may not want to say they don't know, and really try to explain to people without making it seem like they're, for lack of a better word, stupid. You don't want to talk to people like and dumb it down for them, but you want to explain it to them in a way where they understand what we're trying to accomplish together.

Brian Aquart 35:12

That makes a lot of sense. You know, what's a what's a mistake you're grateful that you actually made early rather than later?

Don Lee 35:21

Man, it's tough. I be honest with you, I don't really feel like there was a mistake that I was grateful for making. I think all the mistakes I'm grateful for, but I I can't really pinpoint one, but I'm glad that I started at the age of 35. I and I've had this conversation with many people. It's kind of like I always look at my career as like football. If you're an NFL person or a football fan, you know how the kind of chain of command goes. You're a player. One day maybe you'll you'll lead to being offensive coordinator because you love the game so much. You want to be an offensive coordinator, defensive coordinator. That's kind of like your fight coordinator, stunt coordinator. And then being the head coach is kind of like more like I view it like a director, second-year director, and then like your Robert Kraft of the team is Fox Paramount. Those are the owners, those are the studios, and you want to work for. So you just want to, to me, I think that having that goal and glad I did it at a young age versus being instead of being like, hey, you know, I can still do stunts because it's a massive pay cut. And that was it, that was the hardest thing that I didn't expect was to realize that my salary would be cut in half early on. Well, I didn't realize that either. Oh, okay. So as a as a performer, you uh you make extra uh compensation for what the stunts that you do. Okay. So if you're doing something that's depending on how risky the stunt is, there's more money for you to make. And as a performer, sometimes you want those risks because of A, you want to be able to do something that's incredible, but B, you get compensated pretty well for what you do as well. And so I think that was uh a huge shock to me. It was realizing, like, wow, man, I'm gonna make less than what I'm used to, but I'm learning so much more. And it really taught me just basically like you can't cut corners here. You really got to learn. And I'm glad I started at 35 learning about the business because that has given me the experience, you know, in the last 10 years of how to help people, how to help production, how to help our stunt team, how to help the players, like help everybody in general. So instead of looking at it from one side, it was being able to see everybody's side of what needs to be accomplished. And it always comes down to money, unfortunately. And so you got to be able to justify what those things are. And it's to me, I the only thing, like I said, the only one thing I can't ever sacrifice is safety.

Brian Aquart 37:51

Yeah. That makes a lot of sense. If if if you could redesign your career path with what you know now, what would you protect at all costs?

Don Lee 38:00

I think if I had to go back in time, I would go back with more of a mantra saying there's I cannot control other people. I can only control how I react. And I would think learning that, and I think that's a a theme I could have learned a lot of lessons from in my life instead of trying to control certain situations, whether it be your personal life, whether it be business, is I can't control control it. And you can try to manipulate it any way you want, but you can all what I think you should do is just do the best you can, stand your ground, what you believe in, say no because you believe no, say yes because you believe yes and let the cards fall where they fall fall.

Brian Aquart 38:43

Yeah. And would love for you to share some advice to our audience. For those people who are maybe working in a high pressure career, wondering whether if it's uh it's time for them to pivot, what should they pay attention to first?

Don Lee 38:58

I would say probably my advice would be is to how do you feel? Are you happy with what you're doing? What would you be happier doing? And like I said before, I think having still waters, if you're comfortable, you're comfortable. And sometimes, man, you know, next year I'm gonna try something. The next year, and we all know this, that next year will turn into 10 years. So I think that in that time being, if you feel that there's a need to change, explore that and don't be scared. I would encourage you, and I would say that, man, have that bravery, take that leap of faith and and and explore why. Ask that question. Why am I why am I doing this? Take that time, maybe take that weekend to write down journals, see where you're at, and list and have a list of goals of what you want to do and really see how you can accomplish, then find out how I can accomplish those goals. And if it becomes too much and it's overwhelming, you wake up the next day, then you're like, man, I'm still not, I don't know if I can make that change yet. I'm worried about I would write your list of things to worry about and then find out how to go ahead and and attack those things and how to deal with them and and figure it out. Yeah, no, I like that a lot.

Brian Aquart 40:05

I think there's that people taking that intentional pause to do the things that you mentioned is so, so crucial. You know, look looking forward now, in the future, what kind of work do you want your name attached to, even if your face never is?

Don Lee 40:22

I would say my for my work-wise, I would want something that I am proud of. I think there's a lot of things that I've done project-wise that at the end product, I'm like, man, I'll either watch that once or like, man, it was chopped up in editing. I used to take that so personal as at a performer because I'm like, the things I did that I risked my life for didn't even end up on in the movie. That's something. And the angle was so bad. Like, you didn't get like you went from like me being like this human being that, you know, flew in the air to like, you know, 25 feet in the air to basically like to asphalt, even though I was padded up. And that's the other thing, too. The one thing I would say this stunt men have it's way easier than stunt women. And I'll tell you why. Look at what we wear. Guys are in jackets, coats, long sleeve shirts. We can put hard shell pads on, we can put back pads on. We have all kinds of armor we can put on. Women wear what? Clothes that always seems to always fit them. They're in dresses, showing their arms, and they still have like, man, my hat's off to you, especially man. Women are insane. Um, I don't know how they do it. So the type of work I want my name attaches, I think at the end of the day, projects that I'm proud of. Like I said, I think there's a these these are these jobs that I've done that I'm like I've risked my life for, and it never makes a cutting floor. And maybe I didn't like the movie as much, but I think it's more about the experience of being on a show and being with the community. Like I gotta say, man, I love the show Cobra Kai. I loved working on it, one of the best experiences I had. John, Josh, and Hayden, one of the best like writing teams I've ever had a chance to collaborate with. And that's the other thing, too. Most of the times you don't get a chance to collaborate with the writers on the stunt side of things because it's such a different department, but why are we so different in in class? It's it's a really strange thing. But those guys really opened the door for me and were like welcoming uh with welcome arms and just love and arms being like, hey, Don, we're here to hear suggestions, and maybe we may not we may not agree with you, but we're here to hear. And to me, and that's a huge thing those guys taught me was like that's the part where you feel like you're part of the team. Now we're creating something together. So I think for me, it's creating projects that I enjoy. I'm happy to be a part of, and having a fun process doing that at the end of the day, if I'm happy to talk about it, then I feel success.

Brian Aquart 42:35

And now, what's one question you have for me that I could hopefully answer?

Don Lee 42:39

Man, okay. So I had a couple questions for you, actually.

Brian Aquart 42:44

Go for it.

Don Lee 42:45

All right, great. Um my thing would be it's a two-part question. What drives you every day? And then the second part of the question would be what drives you when you don't feel driven that day.

Brian Aquart 43:04

Okay. So what drives me every day, and it's it's a multi-pronged answer because I've had my toes in a few different things, right? But the overarching theme is impact. And I've had to grow into that, but it's it's impact. What drives me every day is that having the ability to impact folks and the the decisions that they make. So in my day-to-day life in the healthcare space, I have the ability to highlight an industry to young people that they may that they may have never dreamed about or thought about for themselves. Or even if they did think about it, they didn't know how to make it real. Right. So I lead a few programs that then showcase what we do in healthcare where it's more tangible to them, where they're like, hey, they can actually talk to a respiratory therapist or a lab technologist about this is what we do here. And so now they can then make better informed decisions about what they're going to do in their future. So having that impact, I think, is is is great in one space. The other space is truthfully here, right? In that the big premise around, you know, resignations and career transitions, people often feel like they're going through it alone. I don't want them to feel that way. I talk with people all over the globe around how we're going about and how other people are handling career moves and transitions because you're not alone in that in that process. And so I think just exposing that and having a platform for people to come and listen to a whole archive of folks talking about this, I think is very helpful. So that's part two. And then part three is in some of the work I do, you know, have this offering called Storyline, we're helping leaders, you know, you talk you talked a little bit about clarity as well, which I really resonate with, but I help people clarify their voice, right, and their and their narrative around how is it that they're showing up in spaces either online or at work or in other places that they want to show up. But what's their story? Right. I think it's important that people tell their own stories. And I often help people do that for themselves. And so those, so impact is my my big theme. And then now the second part of your question, there are days where I, you know, there are plenty of days that I, you know, I've you get tired sometimes or you're like, oh man, do I am I still doing this? I look back on the testimonials that I receive in from the healthcare space, from the students mainly, uh, and from episodes from the show and and the work I do from the people who have been a part of it or the people who have been impacted by it. Because Don, here's what's interesting. You know, you start a platform like this, very similar, like, you know, you're you're doing stunts for you don't know who's gonna watch your movies, right? Or the movies that you coordinate. So you never know what how that's gonna land for them. Similar here, I don't know who's listening to the show or watching the show. But I tell you what, when I get these DMs or other messages around how Brian, thank you for having the conversation for this with this person. What you all like I was in a really dark place, but I needed to hear that at that time. Man, I just appreciate it so much. Keep going. Out of the blue, people I've never met before. Just one, I appreciate them emailing, emailing me to share this, but also I appreciate them listening to the show. And so when I think about like, oh man, do I still want to do this? Because you know, this is a labor of love. I'm not, I don't have any sponsors or anything like that. Yeah. Like I'm not, you know, I'm not monetized like that. But I think about those people. I think about the people who I haven't who haven't listened to my show yet. But maybe they need to hear something from a guest that helps them keep going in some type of way. And that, Don, that keeps me going. And so here I am.

Don Lee 46:48

That's awesome. I love that. I gotta say, in the short time that I've known you and met you, in just the exchange of emails that we've had, I've never seen somebody that was so well organized. I mean, like you you called it something before. You said I am something of an organizer. Do you remember that? What was that word you said?

Brian Aquart 47:06

Yeah, like there, I was like, there's like there's a method to my madness. I'm I'm like hyper-organized. Yeah.

Don Lee 47:11

Hyper-organized, yes. Man, if there was a world, honestly, man, I looked at your at your way of working and how I can do better, to be honest. It actually motivated me because I was like, man, like if Brian's as hyper hyper-organized, like I need to like step my game up in certain things. Maybe I can be be more responsive in these emails, and like I'm pretty systematic in what I have, but can I always do better? And that's I always push for that because I'm all about the growth of it. Um, so man, that was really awesome about you. Um, we have time for another question for me to ask you. Of course. Absolutely. Fantastic, man. I was I was wondering, so what is it, the uh the whole why? Why you wanted to start this, why the question, just that question itself, it's such a powerful thing to me because you know, um, I talk about this about everything. And that's my biggest thing when I do scene breakdown or story breakdown, is I ask the why. Why are we doing this fight sequence? Is it because you guys saw in a different movie? What's driving that person, that story for that action? And those are the things that I feel visceral in in life in general, because that's what moves us. So why start the podcast? Why the question why? I guess I'm asking if that makes sense.

Brian Aquart 48:19

It does. It does. I think it's a great question. So, my my biggest thing for why this show is, you know, the I guess I'll start a little background is that I'm an employment attorney. I was in HR for a while, and so I've always been connected to this world of work in some way. What I didn't understand when one of the reasons this the show just got started was when people started leaving during the great resignation, I didn't understand why people would leave stability during a time of instability. I was like, there's something going on here. And uh I'm an article junkie. Having gone down that route and read read articles around why people were leaving at the time, I just kept feeling unfulfilled. And so as it kept, as time kept passing on, I was like, you know what? I really like there's something else going on here. I really want to know why, but I want, I want the people to tell their stories. Because as the show notes, and truthfully, I never had this section, uh, this this part of the show didn't come in and probably till like season two or three, because I never really wanted the show to be about me. It's about other people and sharing their stories. And so I wanted, I wanted people to to, in their own words, tell folks why they decided to transition a career, why they seemingly were at the highest heights of their own profession and decide to just to leave it all. For what though? Like what it what was going on that we couldn't see? And Don, what's beautiful about it is that this whole show, and I didn't know where it was gonna go, but this show has become a bit of a social experiment in the human experience, in that we often ask ourselves these questions about life and work and all these things, and we don't give ourselves time to answer them. Well, the pandemic forced people to answer those questions. And then as time has gone on, because truthfully we're we're you know a lot beyond that now, but now it's I think people having had that reset, they're looking at things differently. How are they approaching the world of work? How are they approaching their own respective jobs and what they said they were going to do in the past? And at times they're answering these questions sooner than they would have anticipated, which I think is great. Um on the flip side, it's also kind of maybe like a sad state of affairs when you think about it. Like we we always wait for something super dramatic to happen to make us make a change. Um, and so I think there's some learnings in that too for us as a species.

Don Lee 50:44

Amen to that, man. I honestly uh that's awesome and powerful, Brian. It really is. Man, I gotta go back. It made me think of one of the questions you asked earlier about, you know, how do you know when it's time to pivot? I think you answered that for a lot of us and even for myself, you know, you gotta know if you're fulfilled or not. And if that's a burning thing, what that is, like what's that change? Like uh sometimes you just wait that time and you feel like I'm not fulfilled. And look at you're making the change because I know this is a labor of love. This isn't easy. And um, the amount of work that you put into this, the amount of passion that you have for this, and the amount of care that you have for this, man, we're you know, we're all thankful for that you're doing this because this is awesome, man. And I continue to, you know, I I want to learn more about you, I want to listen to more of your cast. But I can't, I can't wait to hear more of your guests on the show. Yeah. So this is gonna be awesome, man. So this has been this has been great. And what those are uh I feel blessed, man.

Brian Aquart 51:39

No, likewise, likewise. And I yeah, I I I just really appreciate you you joining the show today, like Gita connecting us. Uh it's just awesome to get connected with really good people. And so uh, as I mentioned, I just I just really uh appreciate that. Now, I know you said you you're not much on social or anything like that, but would love to give you this space where where can people find you or support your work or anything like that? How can they how can they do that?

Don Lee 52:06

I think as of right now, I I know it's such a uh old like a platform, but it's usually like IMDB. So that and then, you know, um, I mean, the I'll I may be posting more because I feel like I may have to now on social on Instagram just based on this, and we'll see what happens with that. But I think uh, you know, that's to me, uh there and uh on your show, obviously. So yeah.

Brian Aquart 52:28

Perfect, perfect.

Don Lee 52:29

So maybe we'll get a chance to maybe do another episode down the road together.

Brian Aquart 52:33

I hey, I I love it. Love to keep the doors open for sure. Um so I want to thank you for that info and thank you again for coming on the show. Like I said, love, love that Gita uh connected us. The PLS connection is always strong. I've had another, a couple other PLS uh alums on this season, which is a beautiful thing. And look, as we wrap for season five of Why I Left, I keep coming back to something that you said, Don, about, you know, responsibility, that leadership often isn't about being seen. It's about making sure people go home safe. That's something that's gonna really stick with me. This entire season has been full of stories about change, courage, and clarity, about leaving roles, identities, or expectations that no longer fit. And if there's one through line, it's this it's that the most important transitions are often the quiet ones. So if this conversation resonated with you, please share it with someone who is navigating a career inflection point. Uh, and if you've been with us all season, thank you for listening, reflecting, and of course staying curious. So, as I always say, we we don't talk about resignations enough. Hopefully, this platform changes that, and we'll definitely see you all next season. Don, thank you so much for joining.

Don Lee 53:47

Thank you so much for having me. Thank you guys for listening.

Brian Aquart 53:50

Thanks for listening to why I left. Join us next time for more inspiring stories about growth, resilience, and transformation. Visit us online at www.whyileft.co. That's whyileft.co.