Adrion Porter: Age Diversity Advocate, and Founder of Mid-Career Mastery

A conversation with Adrion Porter, the driving force behind Mid Career Mastery — a platform dedicated to helping over-40s grow.

Adrion and Alex delve into the rarely addressed challenge of 'midlife malaise' - a common occurrence among experienced workers. Adrion provides a concrete, three-pillar framework - mindset, meaning, and milestones - to transform this malaise into a path towards mastery — helping clients navigate their mid-career challenges.

Adrion also shines a light on ageism in the workplace and the value of experience in a multi-generational workforce. They discuss how to guide clients in leveraging their wisdom, embracing mentorship roles, and driving value in knowledge-based work.

A previous HBO staff, Adrion opens up about the brand's transition to HBO Max. His experience provides an insightful understanding of organizational changes which you can use to better support your clients during similar shifts in their workplace.

Immerse yourself in this thought-provoking chat with practical insights to explore mid-career challenges, ageism, and organizational changes.

Transcript

Coaches on Zoom Drinking Coffee
Adrion Porter

(interview blurb)

Adrion: I think the period of time when you came of age does shape how you respond to certain things, how you look at the world, how you look at work.

(intro)

Alex: I’m Alex Pascal, CEO of Coaching.com, and this is Coaches on Zoom Drinking Coffee. My guest today is a speaker, workplace strategist, and age diversity advocate. He’s the founder of Mid-Career Mastery, a professional growth platform for people over 40. His mission is to help people in their middle years thrive at work and in life. Please welcome Adrion Porter.

(Interview)

Alex: Hi, Adrion, how are you? 

Adrion: Hello, Alex. How are you doing? I am excited to be here.

Alex: Oh, it’s great to have you. Thank you for joining me. Let’s start where we always start on Coaches on Zoom Drinking Coffee, and we don’t always drink coffee, we do different fun things. What are we doing today? 

Adrion: So, we are doing my favorite go-to. I’m a tea guy, I’m a coffee and tea guy, but, a lot of times, I like to go to my hot cinnamon spice tea from Harney & Sons, so, usually, when I venture into Barnes and Noble, which I do a lot, they sell those there so I’m doing hot cinnamon spice tea from Harney & Sons. It’s so delicious. 

Alex: Yeah. I’m matching you so it’s delicious. Thank you for suggesting it. Yeah. 

Adrion: Love it. Love it. 

Alex: Yeah, it’s great. I like to try new teas and I’ve gotten to do a lot of that over the last year since we launched the podcast so it’s kind of a fun little thing to do. 

Adrion: Well, one thing I love about it, it’s very sweet and it’s zero calories so it’s a true tea but the cinnamon that’s in the tea makes it very appealing and palatable. And they have a caffeinated and a decaf version so, usually, around this time of day, honestly, I do the decaf but, for some reason, I needed an extra jolt because I didn’t have my coffee this morning so I’m doing the caffeinated version.

Alex: That happens. I love how everyone knows kind of their caffeination level and it’s a good thing to know for productivity. 

Adrion: Yes, yes, yes. 

Alex: Let’s start by hearing about your career. How did you end up doing what you do today?

Adrion: Wow. So that’s a great question and I always start off when I’m asked this question, Alex, is I always kind of jump first into what I’m doing today, which a lot of it is I’m self-employed, I’m a coach, I’m a speaker, and consultant, but I’m a recovering corporate marketer, that’s what I like to tell people. I spent 20 plus years working for some really great brands and corporate marketing as a marketing executive, brands such as HBO, Cartoon Network, Citigroup. I was also a CMO of a tech startup here in the Georgia area. But, in 2011, I actually got laid off from my role at Cartoon Network as a marketing director, but I did some really great things while I was there. I was overseeing the Star Wars Clone Wars series, the animation series, Ben 10. I had a relationship with Lucasfilm. But, anyway, I got laid off and that was actually the year I turned 40 and I was trying to figure out what I wanted to do and a friend of mine suggested that I take all these years of experience and insights that I have and just try coaching and consulting. And I’ve always loved speaking so that’s how I just got into it, but during that phase afterwards in my 40s, I was noticing that a lot of people in my peer group, Alex, were going through this type of feeling of malaise, being stuck, going through that feeling of ennui, that midlife crisis, if you want to over dramatize it, some people were going through that, but, for me, I was experiencing that, and also as a generational geek, as a generational nerd, I love understanding social sciences, I know a lot of people in my peers who are fellow Gen Xers were also feeling that way and also feeling that they were overlooked because we were squeezed between the big behemoth magnificent millennials and then the brilliant boomers on the other side, and so I started a podcast. I’m a fan of podcasts, like what we are on now, and I start a podcast called Gen X Amplified, which was a platform dedicated to amplifying and showcasing powerful generation, again, between those brilliant boomers and magnificent millennials because we were often overlooked. And so from that, it just spiraled into really just establishing my thought leadership. And then, from that work, it really led me into what I focus on a lot, in addition to Gen X Amplified the podcasts, but focusing more on the period of life in mid-career midlife and as a speaker, as a consultant, and as a platform builder. I started Mid-Career Mastery and I really wanted to solve the problem of the mid-career, midlife malaise and I wanted to help eliminate that malaise and transform it into mastery. And so I know we’ll talk and we’ll unpack a little bit more but just, again, the gist of it, got thrown into the speaker entrepreneurship waters from being laid off and really just wanted to, at this stage of my career, really create impact and really move and lean and walk more into my purpose at this stage being someone in mid-career and midlife in the middle years and that’s what I do today.

Alex: Wonderful. Thank you so much for sharing.

Adrion: No problem. 

Alex: So let’s indeed unpack it a little bit more.

Adrion: Yeah, let’s unpack it. 

Alex: So what about the midlife crisis? Is that real? And I’m asking also for our audience, of course, as I always ask questions kind of driven by what’s going to be of interest to the people that follow the podcast, but I’m actually about to be 40 next year so I’m getting close to where people experience some of the — maybe a couple years away from midlife crisis. So, some of your work and kind of the reorientation and career coaching and consulting you do for people kind of transition into middle age, is that related somewhat to what we refer to as a midlife crisis? And yes, so if so, how are the midlife crisis and navigating your career in your middle age, how are those related?

Adrion: Yes, that’s a great question. I get this question a lot. So, first, let’s take a step back. The midlife crisis, the answer to the question is it real, I would say the malaise of the midlife is real and so crisis, I do believe that it’s real and the reason why I say it’s real because I mentioned earlier that I’m a nerd for those social sciences and I stumbled across a study, multiple studies called the U curve of happiness that I was fascinated by, and so let me just unpack that for your audience because I think it’s really some great data points. And so, obviously, based on what I experienced personally, in my observation, a lot of people in their 40s, 50s, middle years, give or take five or ten years or so, do go through this feeling of slump and, initially, in the late 90s, there were two economists, David Blanchflower and Andrew Oswald, they were economists and they were studying the relationship between work satisfaction and age and it really had to do with layoffs and going through that period but in those studies, and they looked at longitudinal studies and also self-reported research studies base across maybe 150 countries, they noticed that there was a unique relationship between age and work and life satisfaction. And it started, again, from labor economists, and they noticed that as you age, when you start off in your early adulthood, you self-report as level of happiness that tends to be somewhat high, you’re just starting your career, you’re excited about new discoveries, you’re just looking for the next next, you’re career planning year, you’re just starting off in your personal life, but as you age, it tends to go down the self-reported level of happiness and life satisfaction, and it literally steadily plummets and it goes into this nadir phase in your 40s and 50s. Actually, the average age is 47.5, based on averages. But then as you get into your mid to late 50s or into your 60s —

Alex: That’s good to know, you know? I’m ten years away.

Adrion: You’re ten years away, but as you get into your late 50s, it goes back up again, this level of self-reported happiness, so it follows this U shape and that study has been replicated time and time again by the two labor economists but also by the National Bureau of Economic Research, other labor economists, other social science researchers and I, as the nerd I am, I’ve unpacked many of those studies, I’ve looked at the data, I’ve also just did my own primary research with my own groups and people in my relationship circle and it’s the same feeling. So, there is this natural feeling of ennui that you experience and that’s why a lot of people in that mid-career phase tend to go through that period. Now, the data points on why is that the case. Well, there are a lot of multiple reasons that attribute to this feeling of malaise. Number one, it’s the level setting of unmet expectations. When you’re early on, you have all these goals, professionally and personally, that when you actually experience life and you reach that period in your career and your life, then some of those expectations and some of those goals have not been met. Then you have the traffic jam of life. You have managing your career. A lot of times, in those middle years, you have family obligations, you have financial responsibilities, you still have goals, you have aging parents possibly, you have people that you’re caring for or you’re caregivers, maybe with children, and so it’s just this traffic jam and so that contributes to the malaise, the crisis, if you will. Then, when you get older and why you tend to be on this upward trend of that you in your late 50s, 60s, and 70s because you start to reevaluate and reframe what’s meaningful and purposeful in your life. You’ve learned to manage those unmet expectations. You’ve actually re-shifted and reimagined what is an expectation, what is a milestone, what’s meaningful for you? And so that’s why this feeling comes into fruition, and I, again, was so fascinated by those studies and those data points because it lets me know, number one, that I wasn’t alone. It lets me know, number two, that this is something that’s probably wired in us biologically because they also did those studies on our closest cousins in primates, apes, and they noticed that based on their — not self-reported, obviously, but based on how they respond to various stimuli, they also, apes go to this slump feeling in their middle years, and so it’s probably something that’s in the life sciences in addition to the social sciences. So, again, just like you go through puberty, you go through adolescence, there is a thing called middle-lescence, and so all of these biological factors and external factors contribute to that crisis or malaise feeling, which I prefer to call it because, sometimes, it may not be so adverse and dramatized as a crisis but there’s something natural. Now, my work and what I’m passionate about and my purpose is to not settle into the common theme of, “Great, you’re going to go through this in your 40s and 50s, just wait it out, things will get better, and when you get older, you’ll be happier.” I’m not really into that. My thing is to help flatten the curve in the middle because if you can preempt and you have the knowledge and understand, let’s proactively intentionally look at ways and action plan and things that we could do and frameworks to help flatten the curve and transform that malaise into mastery. So, yeah, that’s kind of a long-winded way to say that the malaise is real. However, I wanted you to understand, I want your audience to really understand the science and the background of why that’s the case. But then let’s also collectively, especially for your audiences as coaches, use the tools and the frameworks that we have to help flatten that curve.

Alex: That’s very helpful. Thank you for that.

Adrion: Yeah, no problem.

Alex: It’s so important for us as a society to have people that, as they go through kind of like that midpoint or like the latter stages of their careers, to think about how we can better utilize that experience and the only show I watch religiously is Real Time with Bill Maher. 

Adrion: Oh, yes, classic.

Alex: I love Bill Maher. I think he’s so funny and he’s like some viewers are more in agreement or less in agreement with him but of anyone on TV, he’s probably one of the people that I am the most, for like 95 percent of his views, I’m like I can see how that makes sense. And one of the things that he always says is that we as Americans, we are very ageist. 

Adrion: Yes.

Alex: Given all your experience in intergenerational work, do you agree?

Adrion: Yes, I think we are. I mean, obviously, that’s what I do and I work on age inclusion, age diversity is definitely a passion of mine, working with companies to help them understand that, number one, we are now in a very multi-generational workforce. Actually, for the first time ever, the workforce macro holistically is comprised of five generations. We’re talking the incoming Gen Zs then, obviously, you have the millennials, you have people like me, the Gen Xers, and even have baby boomers and also you possibly have part of the traditionalist, the silent generation, which are older than the — more seasoned, I should say, than the baby boomers. And so I think we’re all ages because it’s probably one of the last acceptable forms of bias because you hear it everywhere, you see it on stages and comedian jokes, we always talk about, “Hey, you look good for your age,” and it’s something that’s kind of intuitively within us that we take for granted but it’s true. We’re all a little ageist at times. Well, then, the question is, how do you address that and how do you combat that? Because, at the end of the day, we’re all aging. I tell people all the time in my work and when I talk is that age is the one dimension of difference in diversity that we all share. We all share. God willing, we’re all going to age. We’re aging by the second. And so, because of that, we take it for granted, but then we have to understand how do we combat ageism, especially in this new world of work that we’re experiencing now where people are living longer and they’re working longer and so you, whatever field you’re in, whether you’re working in corporate, whether you’re working for a company or you’re a coach, you will be interacting with individuals that are younger than you, that are around the same age, and that are possibly quite older than you.

Alex: Do you think that that ageism is exclusively American or do you think that other countries value people that are older and ascribe more kind of wisdom?

Adrion: Yes, great question, Alex. From my observation and study, I do think that Americans tend to over index with those ages beliefs. I do see, actually, I see a lot of individuals that are more, in the Eastern world, tend to place a higher premium and value on seasoned individuals. The elder statesman or the elder stateswoman is looked upon as, look, it’s more valuable. People are taking care of their elderly, whether it’s in China or Japan or overseas and possibly even maybe in the UK, I’m not sure, but definitely on the Eastern world and even when it comes to Middle East and some of the Indian countries, I have seen that. And the reason why I’m not sure, again, it’s probably due to our exposure as Americans through various propaganda, our own beliefs, but I have seen a vast difference in how we treat the elderly. And, again, ageism is not just focused on elderly, it’s also focused on — you can be ageist to someone who’s younger. You may view and deem them as someone who’s so inexperienced that they can’t contribute to the conversation with respect to the workforce. But, yeah, more the age conversation is directed towards the seasoned individual and I do see a vast difference, unfortunately, and I think that’s something that we as Americans have to work harder towards to put a premium, again, because, studies have proven this, is that we are aging more and more time and time again, we’re living longer, and so there’s this thing and phenomenon, which I talk a lot about, and really is one of the basis of what I do with Mid-Career Mastery is this idea of transitioning from the typical 40-year career, where you start your career in your mid 20s then you retire at 65, that’s no more. We’re moving from a 40-year career to a 60-year, where you could be living and working or working, I should say, well into your 70s and possibly your 80s. Now, what does work look like at that season is quite different, whether it’s more of a portfolio career, it’s nonlinear, but because the workforce is going to be comprised even now of people who are more seasoned, we have to, as Americans and everyone, view the seasoned person with wisdom, with more care, and more value because if we don’t, we all peril.

Alex: How do you envision the future of work in, let’s say, thinking across this century, will people be working until they’re older? Will technological innovations create more automation and will free up more time? What’s your vision for how work will evolve? And let me just add one more caveat to that, I think where we’re sitting today and the way the workforce works and the demographic just distribution, it makes sense that we’ll have these longer careers, but that is happening against a backdrop of technological innovation and continued gains in productivity. Do you think that that will have an impact as to the amount of work that we do?

Adrion: Yes. Yeah, it’s a great question, Alex. I think it definitely will. Again, I think that — and even today, we’re seeing individuals just from the census data and from the data from Pew Research or just the work-related data that people are living and working longer. Now, to your point, what does that look like? How do we envision? It’s totally different than it was 30, 20, maybe 10 years ago. And so if you’re someone who’s in their late 60s or 70s and you’re still wanting to work for various reasons, whether it’s you’re going through a financial crisis or you just have more vigor and you are able to contribute to society and you just want to work, then I think the world of work and how work looks and acts and breathes is different. Maybe it’s more knowledge-based work as opposed to something, obviously, as you get seasoned, you’re not as nimble as you are, per se, but maybe it’s knowledge based, maybe because of the plethora of tools that we have to our disposal, whether it’s through the web or it’s mobile, that if you’re someone who’s older and, God willing, you’re still able to mentally absorb knowledge and all of those learning tools, then you who has the knowledge work longer. Maybe it’s more of a mentor relationship, where based on your wisdom and experience, that your role in the world of work is maybe someone that’s as a seasoned wisdom elder statesman or woman who can add value to the incoming generations based on your experience. So I think — but that work and that vision, to your point, has to be created by people like us intentionally and proactively. I mean, that’s what I’m doing in my role and my part when I work with organizations, let’s look at your long term planning of the people that are in your organizations now, who are mid-career and beyond, how do we reimagine work for them? How do we reimagine the value that they not only receive as a workplace employer but contribute to the company based on their age? And so I think, to your point, we’re still figuring it out all the details. For example, you mentioned technology. We’re in this world now where it’s all about large language models and AI. Okay, we’re scared that that’s going to take our jobs, it seems to someone it’s their early 50s, but if you are in your 70s or 80s and you’re looking at this new tool and you don’t really understand what is a large language model, what is ChatGPT, how does that impact me, then my first advice always, no matter what age, you need to learn it and play with it and just try to figure out how it can help you add value. So it’s a great question. I think we’re figuring it out but we have to take action and make sure that — because we do know that the world is, we’re living longer, we’re working longer, and the new 60-year career is here.

Alex: Yeah.

Adrion: Yeah.

Alex: I agree with that. We have more to talk about mid-career and differences between different generations and such but I wanted to ask you one thing that is related to your work experience, we were talking a little bit about it in the greenroom. So you were at HBO for five years as Director of Brand Development, and just recently, HBO rebranded or HBO rebranded as Max, it has been very controversial and since you were there for many years in that branding function, I’m just so curious to hear your thoughts on it, on the rebrand.

Adrion: Let me put it this way, and I don’t work there anymore so I can be as free willing as I can. Okay, I have all reverence for my time there. I learned a lot at HBO. I was actually there during a very powerful period for the brand, between 2003 to 2008, and when I say that, I was right there on the front lines during our Sunday night, Sunday is Sopranos, Sex in the City, Curb Your Enthusiasm, The Wire. I mean, I was there and so I help shepherd a lot of those campaigns. I will say from the beginning, it’s a little — it’s Harney. There’s so much cachet that has been built into the HBO ethos, the brand, over the course of years since its inception, from I think 1973, that to see that value and the cachet of the HBO name just go away, it’s a little mind boggling to me as a brand guy. I mean, when I think about the value of brands that you build and the value and the promise, whether it’s the Apples or the Microsofts or the HBOs or the Coca-Colas, those brands, that cachet means something and one of the things that differentiated the HBO brand from others in its sphere is the differentiation, the ethos of premium, right? You go to HBO to get high quality storytelling. To dilute that by removing that is amazing to me. And also, when I was at HBO, so HBO is a master brand, if you will, we had other brand extensions, so Cinemax which was another channel was part of the HBO brand, which, actually, my team, when I worked there, we also managed the Cinemax brand so Cinemax, at the time, was all about movies, and so HBO, obviously, you had movies, you also had original series, documentaries, Cinemax was the home for movies and, actually, when I was there, it’s a fun story, so I’m a Star Wars guy, for the first time ever in 2006, we showed, Cinemax, we showed all six films at the time, this is before the new films, when George Lucas was there, all six films in order in HD on television and it was on Cinemax and I managed that campaign. And so it was cool. I worked with Lucasfilm and so that was on Cinemax —

Alex: That is very cool.

Adrion: It was very cool.

Alex: Even to this day, people struggle figuring out how to watch those, what’s the right sequence?

Adrion: Oh, my god, yeah, and so we showed them in order of the story at the time so we start with Episode 1, The Phantom Menace, and we did Attack of the Clones and Revenge of the Sith, then we showed A New Hope, Empire Strikes Back, Return of the Jedi, one through three and I believe it was in October of 2006 for the first time in HD. Now, it’s funny, now you laugh about it, but, at the time, that was very novel technology. But I was part of that campaign and so — and it was another cool tidbit from that, one of the things that I did as the director of marketing, we did a big print campaign in Entertainment Weekly and we inserted a Darth Vader voice chip in a gatefold so you open up the magazine and you hear the hooohh...pwhhhhhrrr, hooohh...pwhhhhhrrr, for all you Star Wars fans.

Alex: Oh, that’s awesome.

Adrion: So it was cool. I spent a lot of money, I probably went over my budget but that’s okay. But, anyway, I was there during that season so Cinemax but HBO, again, Sopranos, Sex in the City, and since then, with HBO Max because they had to eventually evolve with streaming, obviously, Netflix really put a stake in that, but all of a sudden to see the cachet and the name go away, it’s amazing to me. Now, I do know there’s background into that because HBO is no longer under Time Warner, WarnerMedia, now it’s under Discovery so a lot of the powers-that-be made those decisions, but, no, it’s very heartbreaking because, again, that’s me as someone who worked there, just to see your brand just get diluted — not even diluted, just go away, it’s amazing to me. So Max is Max, yeah, it’s just like any other channel. That’s my two cents. Don’t understand it but I can safely say that, proudly say I was there doing when it was HBO and our tagline was, “It is not TV. It’s HBO.”

Alex: I know, right. Yeah, we all remember all that growing up. Cool.

Adrion: It’s fun to talk about, I appreciate the question. And that’s the first time someone asked me that on a platform so I’m very excited to talk about that.

Alex: Well, I feel like it’s just happening now and it’s, with your background, how can I not ask you? So, let’s define the malaise a little bit more, because your work focuses on going from malaise to mastery. So, let’s start, you referenced it as we were really exploring your work, your career, but where did your interest in that come from? I’m assuming it’s related to getting laid off at 40 and what you described, but tell me more about your interest in that, your process of discovering it, studying it, and how, as a coach, do you work with people to navigate it?

Adrion: Yes, great question. So, again, to your point, it was initially, like any great idea, business idea, movement, anything of value, a lot of times it comes from your own personal experience. And, sometimes, your personal pain can turn into personal and professional purpose. And so, for me, that was the case. And so — but it wasn’t immediate and so I think, again, from my own experience being laid off and just aging and living, going through my 40s and feeling the effects of the U curve, as I referenced earlier with the studies that have been documented time and time again that we as individuals, we all go through this natural U curve of happiness as we age, and, again — and if I didn’t mention earlier, a lot of those research studies have been documented not just in the Americas but this is across hundreds and hundreds of countries across thousands and thousands and hundreds of thousands of individuals and it comes back with the same data point. And so me looking at the data during the research, understanding again that this was something and a phenomenon that was very common, I wanted to be the change I wished to see, I want to solve a problem. That’s just me, whether it’s me coming from corporate, me just going through my own mid-career midlife experience where I’m looking at reimagining what a purposeful work path looked like. And so, again, that’s how it started and then I wanted to see what can I do to contribute to help solve that problem. And so me being a former marketer, an MBA, corporate nerd, I love frameworks and I wanted to create something that was palatable, easy to remember and valuable to help clients, coaching clients, to help corporations and companies, how do we first understand the malaise is real, understand that this affects a vast number of individuals across multiple countries? Okay, great. How do we not just wait it out? How do we help people go through this and try to eliminate and minimize the misery and maximize the happiness? And so I created a framework, I called it the Malaise to Mastery Map, because I’m a framework guy, and I’m a marketer so I look at things that are with alliteration, are easy to remember and it’s based on three pillars. And these are, again, these are just behavioral pillars and actionable tips that I observe and were best practices and, to me, I just codified them. It’s like with any great framework, we just codified. So it’s based on three pillars to help individuals in their middle years, or any age, I will say any point of being in transition, but focusing on middle, helping them get unstuck and unstressed, and then middle years and try to overcome that malaise. And so the three pillars are — the first is mindset, the second is meaning, and the third is milestone and so I’ll unpack that a little bit more. So mindset is the first pillar of getting that unstressed and unstucked and transforming the malaise to mastery and it’s all about — it’s the foundational pillar. It’s all about reframing and reimagining what does it mean to be in this middle period of your life. Again, we all heard about the midlife crisis, per se, we all primarily go through this experience, but then we need to understand why. Number one, reframe your mindset to understand that you’re not alone, and more importantly, reframe from a fixed mindset to a growth mindset. Now, what does that mean? That means that understanding that it’s never too late, based on no matter whatever your age is, to reimagine, rethink, repurpose, recalculate a purposeful, meaningful path of work. And so mindset starts with that. Reframing, what does it mean to be in your 40s and 50s? Understand that the malaise is real. How do I embrace a growth mindset, whether it’s lifelong learning, whether it’s understanding that there is a path and there are other like a lot of actionable tips and takeaways and tools that I use when I work with clients, whether it’s try to mandate they do a skills assessment, and there’s different to tools that we use, whether it’s Myers-Briggs or StrengthFinders or DiSC, but evaluate, look at your skills, look at why do you feel this way. I focus a lot in this pillar on self-care and mental wellness because mindset is not just having a growth mindset to understand how you can grow and learn your career but it’s also reframing your mind and having a look at mindfulness. And so that’s mindset. The second pillar is meaning. That’s all about purpose discovery and meaning discovery. And at this stage of your career, how do I really try to validate and understand and define what does a purposeful work look for me? What does a purposeful life look for me? What is meaningful to me? And how do I connect the dots of my past to my purpose? A lot of times when you’re in mid-career midlife, you’re thinking that all the years of your experience that preceded you can’t attribute or relate to what you want to do in your next next, and I say that is definitely not the case. Connect the dots. Your dots always connect. I tell people all the time and I use personal case studies, the things that I’m doing right now, I used the relationships and the tools that I learned when I was working at HBO or Cartoon Network in my 20s, when I was speaking at my church, I just use them today. I try to look at what are those things that make me excited and put me in the state of flow. Connect those dots. And then also, understanding what are your guiding principles so that’s meaning. And then the last pillar is milestones. That’s where the rubber meets the road, that’s where it’s all about establishing those micro and those macro goals and milestones. And the reason why this is such an important pillar that’s often forgotten, especially in this period of your career, is that when you’re in the middle, it’s often absent of milestones, right? When you’re in a young career or you’re young, you turn 18, you may go to college or university or you may get your first job, you may meet your spouse or girlfriend or boyfriend, whatever the case may be, and then in your later years, you retire, you have grandkids, but in that middle, it’s like one long run-on sentence mostly, right? You’re either absent of those intentional milestones you’re trying to establish or you’re achieving milestones that are externally created, not within you or people that you live through, and so it’s so important at this stage of your midlife and mid-career to establish milestones, achievable milestones, whether it’s the next position that you want to attain, whether it’s starting a business, whether it’s learning to play the piano, running a marathon, not too big or too small but it’s very important and then we set actionable goals and tips and tactics to achieve those milestones. And then I also encourage and we work on a plan to celebrate those milestones, especially in this busy season of your life. And so, again, those, at a high level, that’s the framework, mindset, meaning, and then milestones. And then, obviously, within each pillar, we have case studies, we have actionable tips and homework and guys that I use when I do, whether it’s one-on-one coaching or workshops, but that is the path and the behavioral pillars, I call them Malaise to Mastery Map, that will help you go from a state of misery and malaise into mastery in those middle years.

Alex: Thank you for unpacking that. 

Adrion: Yes. 

Alex: So a lot of coaches focus on career coaching and I think they’re a lot more mindful about transitions, but a lot of coaches don’t specialize necessarily on the career path, just they have different specialties.

Adrion: Right.

Alex: So what insights or recommendations do you have for coaches to pay attention to certain markers that might be important for a coach working with someone across the different segments or spans of someone’s career? Because I think that the way you’re unpacking that really makes me think about how important it is to contextualize the coaching work that we’re doing based on where people are in their career. 

Adrion: Yes.

Alex: And it could be often overlooked. It’s not something that I’ve seen in too many kind of coach training programs, it’s such a foundational aspect of people at work but I don’t see it come up as much. I think we talk a lot about differences between the generations, graphics, but we don’t really spend too much time thinking about — what should we pay attention as coaches for people across these different stages of their careers?

Adrion: Yeah, that’s a great question, Alex. So I think what I do and in my own practice and then, obviously, when I work with other coaches or when I work a lot with organizations on this is you have to pay attention to the signs. First, it’s great to understand the phenomenon initially and that’s why I do what I do because a lot of it is education. Going into this blindly, you may not realize, oh, well, people that are going through this transitional period in their careers, especially late 30s, 40s, 50s, there’s a natural you. There is a natural you. It’s been validated. Okay, so now you can preempt and look for the science or be proactive and start having those conversations of discovery with individuals. “Hey, how are you feeling based on those expectations and goals that you established when you first started in this field? Are you where you wanna be? Are you going through this feeling of malaise? Are you satisfied?” First is being proactive as a coach to identify and understanding the phenomenon that exists. And then, based on where you are in your career, if you’re early career, and I should have prefaced this earlier because this is tied to this, I focus a lot of middle years, middle years, but my work is attractive to anyone because if you’re early career or just starting off, it’s great, I wish I would have known that the U curve exists so I can preempt and understand and help flatten the curve early on, and then if you’re in late career, how do you maximize the upper swing of the U where your self-reported level of work and happiness and satisfaction is higher but then how do you transform and translate that into a valuable work experience to help others who may be at the bottom of the U? And so I wanted to make sure I preface that. So, as a career coach, you have to proactively ask the questions, and if you don’t get a chance to ask the questions at the talent level to understand where they are and how they feel based on their career, then you start to communicate and communicate the phenomenon that exists and then focus on those particular pillars, whether it’s using my framework because what I do with my framework, I help coaches use that for their clients, or just looking at these areas and pillars of the framework at a high level, understanding based on an individual at work, let’s understand and dissect what what’s your mindset right now with respect to your professional growth? Do you have a growth mindset? Are you looking at ways to evolve professionally? As a coach, if you are, what are your plans? What are your milestones? And let’s put together a path that attract to get there. What is the shift that you’re looking to make? And then let’s set some goals. What is the meaning that you’re looking to establish? Let’s set some goals. So, again, I think for coaches, especially for career coaches, is understanding the why, which is all about the U curve or the malaise that exists a lot of times, and then how do we, now we know the why, how do we translate that to at the individual level based on their own experiences, based on where they are, and then how do we set those milestones? And so, again, that’s why I was so fascinated when I stumbled initially on this phenomenon because it lets me know adding value is all about solving the problem and this is a very vast problem that so many people experience and so it’s just being proactive in asking the right questions.

Alex: Thank you for that. 

Adrion: Yes. 

Alex: Let’s talk about Gen Z.

Adrion: Gen Z.

Alex: Should we be super excited of them coming into the workforce? Should we be concerned? A little bit of both? Because I hear both extremes all the time. It’s almost like the TikTok generation. So, what are your thoughts on Gen Zers and how are they going to impact the workforce? 

Adrion: Well, initially, my thoughts, well, I have a Gen Z son, he’s not in the workforce yet, he’s 14 years old, and a lot of children of Gen Xers like myself happened to be Gen Zs just based on how things work out, but I would say that I’m excited for Gen Z, number one, because, again, I cannot not be excited, like they’re going to be part of the workforce and they bring tools and insights that obviously can contribute to society, but like any generation, especially the younger skew of the curve, they have a lot of learning to do. They have a lot of living to do. They have a lot of experiences to experience, per se. And so by understanding that as someone who’s more seasoned, I can discern mistakes and gaps and translate that into coaching moments, and so they’re coming of age at a time where it was very different from someone like me or someone like you as a millennial. I’m assuming you’re a millennial in the generational cohort.

Alex: I am, I am.

Adrion: And the reason I say that — it’s funny, a lot of times, when I have generational conversations, because there are people who even don’t believe in generations, which they make valid points, my feeling is this. I think the period of time when you came of age does shape how you respond to certain things, how you look at the world, how you look at work, and so there is, that’s why people who are part of the Gen X generation, there’s this common attraction and we can talk about similar things and you remember when you experienced this and when you saw the space shuttle blew up in the air, when you went through the first recession or when you saw Ronald Reagan attempted assassination or when you went through this or millennials with the dot-com bubble or the Y2K, like those shared experiences do shape you. So, with Gen Z, they are coming of age or have come of age during a time of technological advances that I didn’t have and millennials didn’t have. They call them the generation Zoomers, the pandemic, especially younger men, like I have a son who was homeschooled for a year because of the pandemic. And so, believe me, I know for a fact and I see it firsthand or I saw it, that’s shaping how he behaved at the time and how he will look at life. Just like the depression possibly shaped the greatest generation, the generation that preceded the silent generation. Every generation is shaped by the external factors that happen during their coming-of-age experience. So when Gen Z, they’re now entering the workforce or have already entered the workforce, how they respond to leadership, how they respond to ongoing skill development, has been shaped by their existence and we have to look at that with open arms but also with discernment and be understanding but also use the tools and the superpowers and the skills that we have as millennials or Gen Zs to help them. So, again, I have to be excited, but at the same time, with any generation that’s entering into the workforce is going to contribute to society or contribute to the company, you have to understand what are their skill sets, what are their superpowers, what do they bring to the table and then how can you as a mentor and as a coach pull out the best of the best and also help them close any of those gaps?

Alex: Thank you so much for all of your insights today. I certainly learned a lot about, especially like the mid-career malaise and extending — we all know about the midlife crisis but what does that look like in your evolution as an employee or an entrepreneur or just as a person working and going through all the things that you go through, so your framework resonates, makes a lot of sense so thank you so much, Adrion, for sharing and I’m looking forward to continuing the conversation and I know you’re going to be doing a summit session for us this year which is very exciting.

Adrion: Yes, yes, I will be unpacking actually more of the framework in that session, it’s called Unstressed & Unstuck: Transform your Mid-Career Malaise into Mastery, so I get a chance to really dive in a little bit more, obviously, with more time permitted, and, again, I’m excited that it’s a tool that helps me, I use it for my own day to day. Again, I intentionally made it applicable to just any transitional period in your life or work. For coaches, if you have a client that’s in a period of malaise or if they’re stuck in a situation or they’re looking for the next next, as a coach, you can help them reframe their mindset and also discover what is the shift and the meaning that they’re looking to achieve and then set some milestones. I try to make it very evergreen as possible but very actionable and tactical.

Alex: I’m sure all coaches can empathize with that. Thank you so much for joining us today.

Adrion: Likewise. This was my pleasure. Thank you.