2025 Cards Year in Review with Matthew Goldman

Why are crypto credit cards exploding — and what does the Coinbase x Amex partnership signal about where the card ecosystem is heading next?

In this episode, host Reggie Young sits down with Matthew Goldman, founder of Totavi and one of the most respected card experts in fintech, for their annual “State of the Cards Union.” Matthew breaks down why 2025 became a breakout year for crypto-linked cards, how Amex is selectively stepping deeper into fintech partnerships, and why HELOC-backed credit products reached an unexpected inflection point. He also shares what surprised him most this year, the underwriting innovations reshaping access to credit, and why consumer obsession with rewards has gone fully mainstream. The conversation moves through the history of program management waves, the rise of cloud-native processors, and the real economics behind modern card programs. Finally, Matthew looks ahead to 2026 with predictions around stablecoin settlement, hyper-personalized rewards, and the next big opportunity in gig-worker credit.

Transcript

Reggie Young:

Welcome back to Fintech Layer Cake, where we uncover secret recipes and practical insights from fintech leaders and experts. I'm your host, Reggie Young, chief of staff at Lithic. On today's episode, I chat with Matthew Goldman, one of the foremost card experts in fintech.

He's the founder of Totavi, a boutique tech product development consulting firm that specializes in fintech products and early startups and has plenty of firsthand experience building and launching fintech card programs. I'm honored to have Matthew on for what I'll call our third annual state of the cards union.

He works with a lot of card programs that are actively being built, so you probably haven't heard of them yet, but you will be hearing a lot of their names a year from now. We cover the biggest things in card payments from the past year, the biggest lessons Matthew’s learned about cards in 2025 and top predictions from 2026 and much, much more.

Fintech Layer Cake is powered by the card issuing platform, Lithic. We provide payments infrastructure that enables companies to offer their own card programs. Nothing in this podcast should be construed as legal or financial advice.

Matthew, welcome back to our third annual card state of the union. Very excited for today's conversation. I know you're one of the folks in the space with the most visibility and all the fun things that are happening in cards. Maybe best place to start out is, looking back at 2025, what are the most notable trends, events, or changes that you think folks should know about or remember from 2025?

Matthew Goldman:

Well, thank you for having me. It's become a great annual tradition that I love. So really excited to be here.

I think this was a huge year for cards. We saw a bunch of crypto card announcements and launches. That's certainly a big one. Probably the headline there is Coinbase’s American Express card, which I think was super interesting as a consumer product, right? It's got this kind of structured 2%, 2.5%, 3%, 4% cash back depending on how many assets you have at Coinbase. So if you're like all in on crypto, man, you can be earning a lot of credit card rewards.

But also, Amex as the network, which was a big deal, I think those of us who are deeply involved in processing know that American Express does run a network and people do use it, not just Amex issued cards.

However, I think that was really eye opening for a lot of people in two ways. One, I think a lot of people don't know that, and they were like, is this an Amex card? How is this an Amex card? And two, that Amex is embracing a program like Coinbase and crypto because Amex is picky, right? They don't do just whatever cards they want. They're doing other fintech cards. They launched a card with Fetch. So they're working with them.

And then I think also for Cardless, who was the program manager doing Coinbase, it was a really interesting new shift away from, I don't know, airlines or whatever they were traditionally doing. So that was big. And we had new cards from Crypto.com. Gemini has been pumping out different versions of their card. They have a Bitcoin card. They have a Solana card. They have an Ethereum card. That's just the way they look. Fold announced the new credit cards, just huge amounts of crypto.

The other thing that I think hit an inflection point this year is the HELOC or alternative secured credit card business. People have been poking at this for a while. Aven's been around for a few years. Yendo has been around for a few years. Pesto, which started as a kind of pawnshop jewelry card, they're doing some other programs now.

Now you're hearing about a lot of people doing HELOC cards. I get asked all the time, there's a bunch in development, I assumed, I may or may not be working on, some of which I'm definitely not. I hear about where people are saying, well, HELOCs are once again- we could spend a whole podcast about why HELOCs are a big deal right now in the interest rate environment. This is a new take on it. I think Aven paved the way.

If you go back 18 months, I don't think you would have seen either of these coming, frankly. And so they're really exciting for me. And I think we're going to see much more of it next year, more crypto credit cards, more HELOC cards. I don't know, maybe we'll finally get that crypto secured credit card, which is the combination of these two things. People talk about that for years. So really exciting developments. It wasn't just built. Now we have new other exciting things to talk about.

Reggie Young:

Yeah, I love it. Yeah, built seemed to be the headline for a long time in cards. It's interesting to me that you started with the Amex feel, because Lithic did- we completed a direct integration with Amex this year. You are seeing their name pop up more and more in fintech. They seem to have- I don't have any inside baseball on this, but just from watching the card headlines this year, it seems like Amex is very interested in- I mean, to your point, they're a little selective, and so it's going to be programs like Coinbase, but definitely an interesting development from this year.

Matthew Goldman:

Yeah, it's fascinating. Again, from both standpoints of the consumer and kind of the inside take, which is from a consumer standpoint is a premium brand. I think people sometimes have concerns about acceptance, although in the US domestically, it's overblown. I think that overlaps over 99% now. People are stuck in the past, maybe. It could be different if you're frequently traveling to Europe or whatever.

One thing I think that's really interesting is the networks at one level do very similar things. They process messages, and they help with settlement and whatever else. But they also have their own unique brand feel, and they have all these assets, right? Like Visa has the Olympics, and Mashford has some baseball stadiums, and Amex has some entertainment venues. And so this is a way for fintech programs to get access to something new that they haven't had. They've been stuck in a bit of a duopoly.

Again, Amex isn't going to bid on everything. Amex isn’t going to be the right choice for everyone either. If you want your card accepted at Costco, you’ve got to go with Visa, right? That's just how it is. But it has definitely expanded and rolled in. I think very highly of Amex, but they are much smaller. And so they have a lot of headroom to take space if they want to, I think, which will be interesting to watch.

Reggie Young:

Yeah, that's a good point. I’d be interested to see how that plays out with the other networks.

What did you learn about cards in 2025? I was thinking about fun questions to ask you, and I was like, I bet Matthew isn't that surprised by card stuff at this point. But I'm curious, is there any fun things you learned this year?

Matthew Goldman:

Yeah. I think maybe a couple things, one on the nerdier side and one on the consumer side. On the backend side, I've done underwriting work for years, but I've been doing more underwriting work. I've been really interested to see the different ways people are approaching this and seeing folks building both cards for new-to-credit, as well as people are building cards- starting talking about building cards for creators or high net worth individuals who maybe don't have traditional income but are probably low credit risk and thinking about how to underwrite those folks, how to get people into the payment system, and just all the tools around that. There's folks like Alloy and [Ocelar] and Taktile and others who are doing this orchestration, and it's really come of age.

When I started my last startup in 2019, I remember talking to Tommy at Alloy and he was like, yeah, maybe we're going to get into underwriting. And now everyone is using them- not everyone, but lots of people. So I think that's really interesting. And the related part is some of the stuff that LoanPro talks a lot about around transaction-level underwriting or transaction-level interest rates and really using the power of computers, because cards are complex, but they've been very blunt, right? You swipe in and it all works one way. So that’s one.

And the other that just continues to amaze me is that credit cards are an everyday topic for people now. The Wall Street Journal is putting out these articles about rewards, and people are talking about it like there is, I don't know, a half million people on the Reddit credit card forum or whatever.

When I started Wallaby in 2012, people were like, why would you talk about this stuff? A lot of people didn't understand what we were trying to do. And now it's just so prevalent, in good and bad ways, right? The lounges are crowded or whatever people complain about, but the amount of discourse around the annual fee for a platinum card that just occurred in mass media. So I think maybe I should have known that, but it was really a smack in the face that these programs are enormous. And it speaks to this broader macro economic thing of the K-shaped economy and the growth of the mass affluent class and millennials aging and having more wealth and whatever. But it's everywhere now, and it's only going to continue, right?

People want to talk to me about their Robinhood card. And what do I know? And people who aren't even in the space, right? They're just excited to talk about payments. I used to make this joke that no one wanted to talk to me at parties, because they'd say, what are you doing? I'm like, I work in financial technology. They’re like, that's cool, and they just kind of walk away. I had an insurance agent do that to me once. I'm like, I don't know, man, you work in insurance. So now people- like I say, I work in credit cards, people are like, oh, yeah, let's talk about credit cards. And that's a huge transformation last 10 years. But I think it really hit me this year.

Reggie Young:

Yeah, I love that. My test of jobs is whether my folks, when they send their holiday card at the end of the year, can accurately describe what I do for work. They have not figured out issuer processing yet. But it's interesting. I've seen this in my folks, again, from the headline point. They've been asking me questions about card headlines. So they see, which is never something I expected. It is funny, though.

Matthew Goldman:

You can't say issuer processing. You have to say, I help people build credit cards, and they're like, oh, okay.

Reggie Young:

Yep, yep. I usually say, oh, we're a platform for helping companies that want to offer cards, because that's much more plain English.

Matthew Goldman:

It is funny because a lot of people still don't really understand much about how it works. They don't need to. And so people will be like, but Visa does that. I'm like, actually, no, Visa does not issue cards. It's really surprising for people. So it's pretty funny.

Reggie Young:

Yeah, I've definitely encountered that, the card networks issue cards.

One thing I'd love to jam on is Totavi released some awesome credit and debit program management reports this year. Folks should go check them out. They do a really good job covering the marketplace. If you're a company that wants to issue cards and is looking for a program manager, the reports do a really good job, like, here's a lay of the land. But you also do a really interesting, succinct job of here's the history and how we got to this place. You talk about the various waves in card program management. So I'd love to hang on that for a little bit.

A, folks should go check out those reports. B, yeah, would love to hear your kind of distillation of what do you see as the main historical waves for card issuing. You can do both debit and credit together. I know they each have their own kind of quirks. You can do them separately however you want.

Matthew Goldman:

Yeah, thank you. We love doing those. I think it's a great way for us to distill our thoughts and continue to learn more as a team. We often joke like, what is a program manager is a question that can never be answered because everyone's got a slightly different take.

Reggie Young:

I did a fun exercise at the end of last year. I ran around Lithic to 12 of my colleagues and asked, what does program management mean to you? I have a notion page of just wildly different answers. Everybody's, oh, this is the network perspective, this is the legal perspective, this is the operator. There are so many different ways to answer that question.

Matthew Goldman:

A hundred percent. And just when I feel like I know how one company is positioned, something changes and now they're positioned differently, or I didn't understand something. I feel like on a daily basis, we're having some argument about what a company actually does when they say they do program management, because every product you might bring them to work on is slightly different, or again, people's plans change, which is totally fair. It's pretty wild. So we really wanted to be able to give people a landscape. Obviously, we love people to hire us and work with us, but we know some people aren't going to do that or want to do their own research. And so we thought the reports would be a great way to share that knowledge in the community and create a baseline kind of understanding.

I think the context is so important historically because you need to know why companies get to where they are and what their viewpoint is. And I think when people are selecting your issuer processor or your program manager, first, you have to decide, am I going to build on a processor? Am I going to build on a program manager? And then you have to decide who you're going to build with. And while it is true that you can migrate eventually, it is very hard and expensive. And it's just this really major decision.

And I think especially when you're starting a product, you're like, I don't know if it's going to be successful. I don't know how much time I want to invest in this. If you're a small company, maybe you just don't have the time because startups are all about speed. If you're a big company, you're maybe not fully committed. And so you have this weird dichotomy of, I don't want to spend a year thinking about this, but it's also a super important decision I'm going to be stuck with for a very long time. And it's really hard to understand what that whole experience is like and even to make that upfront decision.

And so we wanted to talk about that baseline because I think there is a change, right? Some of the historical processors, these are not the people we all talk to or compete with, but you think about like TSYS and First Data and stuff, right, that big banks use. I mean, they're massive. They do certain things very well. They're probably very slow.

Some of them are trying to become more modern. I think Fiserv has put a lot of effort into developer tooling and things, which is really interesting. And then you have the 2000s wave. And then most recently, you have, I think, the class that Lithic falls into, which was cloud native. I don't mean to say that everything at Lithic is in the cloud. I know that's an important point, but just the era in which it was built. And I think why that's important is there's all these tools and there's all this connectivity and there's different ways people think about the developer experience.

If you build a company after Stripe launched, your concept of what a developer portal needs to look like is different than if you built it before, even if you're not in payments, because Stripe set a bar for what developer experiences should look like. When I started in payments at Green Dot in 2006, we processed on TSYS, which was weird because it's a credit platform and we were a debit card. But we mangled it to do prepaid cards. We did green screen scraping. There were no APIs, and we had that one guy who knew the ISO specs. If he was out of the office, stuff didn't happen.

There was no such thing as a portal. Documentation was shared in Word files sent over email. It's just a different era. We didn't use Agile. We didn't have Slack. We communicated over ICQ, which is wild when I think about it. That's how we did in-office chat, was you had to walk around and be like, what's your IC chat number? And like icq and write it down and go back to your desk and type it in.

So I think that's so critical because modern companies like Lithic get to start from a totally different baseline with more tools and can spend more time investing in certain features and functions rather than in the baseline. I don't know what you guys use for documentation, but there's a bunch of great documentation tools. And so you don't have to figure that out from scratch. And I think that's so important for different companies, because some customers come to us and say, look, I need to partner with a public company that's been around for 10 years because my procurement people demand it. Other people are like, I want my developers have the easiest, fastest implementation. And neither of those is necessarily better or worse overall. They're just for different counterparties, essentially.

Reggie Young:

Yeah, I love the point about Stripe changed things for the industry as a whole, not just if you work with them, but it's raised the bar, one line of code, all that sort of stuff flows through. That bar has increasingly changed- I almost don't want to say raising. It's just like the nature of expectations are changing. You could call it raising the bar, but we're at a certain streamlined perspective now. And in five years, programs are going to expect that you can support agentic workflows. And so are you going to see TSYS implementing agentic workflows? I'm going to guess not. This is something I'm personally excited about with Lithic, which is the agentic stuff. But yeah, that bar is never unchanging.

Matthew Goldman:

I think there's something interesting as well about the tooling that surrounds the core product. Do you provide SDKs? Everyone's trying to do for like pan reveal or things. I have to think about this. When I was at Apto, I wanted to do an SDK for just KYC because we were a program manager and we did all the KYC, and I was like, I don't trust other people to build this part. And it's not interesting for your product. I just need to collect some data and make a decision on it. So why don't we make them use it? And we never got there. But I think there's an interesting about how much tooling do you want and how much tooling can you give to people.

I find a lot of companies start with a program manager because it is an easier, faster path. There's no way about it. It costs way less. It takes less time. There's way fewer contracts. But then you're also giving up certain levels of control. And so then pretty immediately you're like, I wanted to change this, I want to change that. And you're like, you're making these trade-offs. And that's where I see bigger, successful programs ultimately do make a shift.

And that's interesting. But then you think about an embedded company where it's like, hey, we're a vertical SaaS for plumbers, and we're never going to care. This is just a thing we add on, and they're never going to want to do all that stuff. And so I think we're starting to see the market self-sort providers into these buckets. Look, we know what a program manager is. If you think you're starting the next giant, you probably shouldn't use a program manager because you're never going to have the margins, you're going to want too much control. If you're a plumbing company and you want to have an embedded business bank account, sure, go ahead and use a program manager. It's super smart. I think that's where we've had this evolution, whereas a couple years ago, during the initial boom of all this stuff, everyone was like, we want to be everything to everyone, and customers didn't know where they needed to start.

Reggie Young:

Yeah. I love the sort of like self-slurring buckets. This is something I've been thinking about a lot the past few months, because I do feel like there's an easy narrative of programs that grow big enough, they can invest in the resources to be their own program manager. But that's not true because to your point, companies like vertical SaaS were like, they don't care. We've talked to enterprise-grade public companies who are like, we have the resources, but that's just not our area of expertise. It's fascinating. It's not the simple linear relationship of like bigger means less likely program manager.

Matthew Goldman:

Yeah, we talk a lot about what is your core offering, and if your card is your core offering, if your Chime or your Ramp, to use the big name examples, you want to own down to the processor because that's part of your magic. If your card is an extension or an add-on offering, which doesn't mean it's small, maybe you don't want to own all that stuff, or maybe you want to own incremental parts of it. I think companies that can offer modularity or a migration path will have an advantage that way.

I also think on the credit side specifically there's this whole other problem, which is capital access, right? The other big thing we talk about from a program manager perspective on the credit card side specifically is some program managers provide capital, so folks like Imprint. They basically run the program for you soup to nuts. They're more akin to Synchrony, although, obviously, Imprint is not a bank and Synchrony is. And on the other end of the spectrum, you have consumer credit card program managers who provide all the services, but you better bring the money.

Actually, that's often the hardest part for the companies we work with. They can build the software, like maybe you need a few hundred thousand dollars and a few developers build the app you want. But to run a credit card program, it's very capital intensive. You need millions of dollars. You need private lending warehouse funds. You need a whole capital markets expertise, and it's really challenging.

Reggie Young:

Yeah. I'm grateful that my first in-house lawyer job was as a capital markets lawyer at Bluevine because I got to know all the spider web of implications of capital. It's like, oh, you want to change-

Matthew Goldman:

And you have the longest contracts, hundreds of pages.

Reggie Young:

Right. And you basically have to negotiate how many strings they come attached with. It's not like, I get this capital I can move. It's like, I get this capital and now I need to have X months of runway and notify my capital provider if it's not. It's a very intensive- you need headcount just to manage that stuff.

Matthew Goldman:

One thing that's super interesting that- oh, this is I guess the thing I could have put in things that I've been learning about. I did know about this [inaudible] is there's a whole class of companies that are doing capital markets management as a service, both helping you find stuff, folks like Ark, and then there's folks that are helping you manage your funding, like Cascade where it's like- this all used to just be in spreadsheets. It's a very obvious thing ultimately to turn into software.

I think if people understood the dynamics of actually managing a credit card on a day-to-day basis- and this is why when people call me and they're like, hey, I want to start a consumer credit card, I'm like, number one suggestion, don't do that, it's terrible. And if they're like, no, I really want to, I'm like, okay, now we can talk, right?

I'm totally happy to help people, but I want people to know what a world of hurt they're about to enter because you have to send a formal request for money, and you can only do it X number of times per month. And it has to be backed up by data. It's just a lot of work. This is why credit hasn't really started to grow until, I think, this decade because we spent all of the last decade building the infrastructure on debit, which is just easier.  The funds are there, or they're not. It's like, that's very simple.

Credit, it's amazingly complex. And that's an area where I feel like I learn new stuff every day. New capital providers have new rules. Everyone's got their own take. It's pretty amazing.

Reggie Young:

Yeah, there's so many traps if you've never worked in cards or fintech before. There's one myth that I find myself frequently dispelling is the whole, oh, credit cards have higher interchange, but also your cardholders are going to expect rewards that they wouldn't expect with the debit card. I know you've written a little bit about the rewards and debit, seen changing a little bit. Historically, oh, that's a nice higher interchange, but also what percent back are you giving to your cardholders, which is, of course, going to eat into that. So there's a lot of nuances.

Matthew Goldman:

Yeah, there are. I think the other thing I have to tell people about credit cards is that it's a product that everyone has to agree to as it were. We have always had KYC, but most people can get approved. I always make this joke like, you want to buy a pair of socks, I'll sell you a pair of socks. I don't care whether you have feet or not. It's irrelevant. You want to get a credit card, I have to convince you that you want to get a credit card. And then after you apply, it's like, but do I like you enough and will I give you credit? And a large portion of the time I said, no, you don't qualify. The acquisition funnel is really weird that way.

And people are also afraid of applying because they don't want to get rejected. There's been a lot of movement there with soft inquiries and pre-approvals, which some people are doing really well. That is a whole bunch of work. So that's the reason a lot of small fintechs don't do that yet. That helps, but it's this dance.

And then even if you approve people, sometimes you offend them. If you have a Chase with a $20,000 limit and you apply for a fintech and they give you a $4,000 limit, you got approved, but you're upset about it. And that's a weird dynamic. When I'm working on underwriting with people, we spend a lot of time being like, what are users going to find an acceptable credit limit? And what are we going to find an acceptable credit limit from a risk standpoint? And it's like this balance because you're like, if these people are wealthy and they have good credit and we give them a $20,000 limit, they're probably not going to use it. If we give them a $10,000 limit and they use that, they're going to be upset that their limit's not higher. And that's a super weird dynamic that exists.

Reggie Young:

I gave up my SSN for a $10,000 limit. It's such a fun day. 

Matthew Goldman:

Yeah. And I think people obviously don't understand underwriting. It's very complex, and they're just kind of, I have an 800, why didn't I get a higher limit? That's not how it works. But that's part of the story. You can start off your product with a very negative user perception, and that's not a good place. That's not where any brand wants to be.

Reggie Young:

Yeah. Looking ahead to 2026, what are some of your top predictions, projections? What do you think is going to hit us in the next year?

Matthew Goldman:

Yeah, I'm excited about this. We're going to release a report in the second week of December on our predictions for next year. It's the first time we're trying this. Hopefully we'll have a decent batting average. I touched on two of them already. I think we're going to see a lot more crypto stuff and much more stablecoin. Some really interesting stuff going on with stablecoin settlement in the back end from a business perspective and stablecoin cards. I think that a bunch of mortgage providers are going to announce HELOC cards. I think those are in the works.

I think there's going to be something interesting about ultra-personalization of rewards. I've been fascinated about rewards for a very long time, and I've made many pitches about building really great rewards programs. And everyone's been like, look, we're doing the basics first. But I think we've done a lot of the basics, and now I anticipate processors and program managers building more rewards capabilities and creating things that let you structure a card more than what you want.

We're seeing this from big banks as well, where it's like, hey, instead of just 3% on gas, it's 3% on whatever your top category is this month or things like that. And also just the hyper personalization of individual cards, that's the thing that fintechs are doing. They're like, hey, I built a card for renters, now there's a card for homeowners, there's a card for golfers, there's a card for auto enthusiasts. That's the Internet, right? It's like you can find your niche and it's taken a longer time to get to fintech. That's one I'm really excited about. I know exactly what that looks like. So maybe someone's working on it.

I think the last one I'll mention is I still think that fintech is looking for the solution for the freelance and gig worker, and it's not just the Uber driver card. If there's more people who are independent consultants, professionals, influencers, like being a TikTok star is a whole thing. I know there are companies that do this, don't get me wrong, but a lot of them are more debit card products or maybe even business card products. And people have tried this. Feels like we're hitting the tipping point where someone will figure out how to help manage that credit gap, because it's really hard. If you're an independent consultant, you don't get paid every two weeks, right? You maybe get paid at the end of the month, or you get paid 45 days after you did the work or something. It's just invoice factoring, but it's not because these are just independent people, and I think there's a lot of room there.

Reggie Young:

Yeah, interesting. No, I agree. I think that the influencer/creator market is an unsolved fintech niche to date. A lot of companies are trying to solve it, but we'll be interested to see how that plays out next year.

Matthew Goldman:

Yeah.

Reggie Young:

Y'all launched the Totavi Fintech Navigator this year, and we should spend at least 30 seconds telling listeners about that.

Matthew Goldman:

Yeah.

Reggie Young:

So what should they know?

Matthew Goldman:

Along with our reports, you can create this single subscription. You can log into this app we made. It's our first product, so to speak. We've been tracking this for years. I'm just really curious, I want to know who's on what platform. The idea is taking any given brand in fintech, this is all public data, so it's only what we can find, who's their processor, who's their bank, and they look in the other direction, like hey, what programs does this bank has? Because when we are helping people to think about who should we work with or what's a good bank for us to reach out to, I think there is a lot of value in understanding, what other programs does this bank do? What's their comfort level? If you go to a bank that has zero credit cards, they're unlikely to decide you're going to be their first credit card, things like that.

We were just keeping it in a Google sheet mostly for internal use, and we thought this is a cool resource. I know there's some other folks who have done versions of this, but we decided we'd really to invest in it. You can just browse around. It's linked together. We have some information that we've added. We brought in some of the FDIC data about the banks, so you can see their asset size or their cert number, things like that, what networks a processor is known to be on. Hopefully, that's a fun one for everyone.

We've been really pleased with the number of people who signed up and are using it. Just kind of make it a community resource that's actually a database. Again, a Google Sheet doesn't do this well enough, and to our earlier point, people do different things. Someone could be a processor and a program manager. It allows for that kind of multi-theme concept. People used to be like, if you were a Chime, you were just the debit card. Now Chime is a debit card and a credit card ,and we can show that they have multiple banks. And so it's cool that way.

Reggie Young:

Yeah, it's a great resource, and folks should go check it out. I think they can just find it on the Totavi website.

Matthew Goldman:

Yeah. It's just in the menu at the top or whatever. It's, hopefully, pretty easy to get to. You have to sign up to use it. There's a pro version to get all the data, but there's some stuff that's for free so you can just sign up for free and see all the bank data, for example. You also have a list of venture capitalists who are focused on fintech, and we have all those reports you mentioned. So we're just trying to have like a hub. I love content and I love sharing some stuff back with the whole community.

Reggie Young:

Yeah. It's definitely a great resource folks should check out.

Awesome. Any closing thoughts? Otherwise, let folks know where they should get in touch and learn more about Totavi.

Matthew Goldman:

Yeah, it's been super fun to be back on. I hope everyone gets a fun new credit card next year. I guess that's my wish for all the listeners, fun new fintech card. I want to see more fintech people using fintech products every day. I think that would be great.

We're easy to find. I'm at matthew@totavi.com and Cards for the Win, the newsletters@cardsftw.com. Pretty easy to find me and always happy to chat.

Reggie Young:

Awesome. Thanks so much for coming back on for our third annual. I'll see you in a year back on the podcast.

Matthew Goldman:

Thank you. Happy New Year.