A Man Forever Etched in Yorkshire Cricket History - with Colin Graves

The World of Lord Russell PodCast Talk Show is proud to present 'A Man Forever Etched in Yorkshire Cricket History' with the current Yorkshire County Cricket Club Chairman Colin Graves.

A fantastic show that includes Colin's business entrepreneurial work, plus Colin's life in Cricket as Executive Chairman of Yorkshire County Cricket Club and Chairman of the ECB (English and Wales Cricket Board) 

What an incredible show this is, an incredible and honest insight to business entrepreneurship and running a top flight first class Cricket Club.

I'm looking forward to seeing you all on the inside.

Transcript

Lord Russell: A very warm welcome to the world of Lord Russell podcast talk show. And today's show is a man forever etched in Yorkshire cricket history, which captures the life of a british entrepreneur and the current chairman of Yorkshire County Cricket Club. He also founded a cost cutter chain of convenience stores before serving as chairman of the ECB. That's the England Wales Cricket Board. Yes, folks, it gives you immense pleasure to welcome on the show Colin Graves. Welcome to the show, Colin.

Colin Graves: Thanks very much indeed. And thanks for the invitation.

Lord Russell: Absolutely. It's a pleasure having you on. It really is. This is a great story. It really is. Let's start at the beginning of your professional life, Colin, and at the age of 21, you began your career in groceries at Spa, where you would go on to spend the next 16 years. That's a lifetime, almost. Finish your time at the business as a sales director. So please tell us more about this interesting journey, Colin.

Colin Graves: Well, actually, a year before I started at Spire, I worked in a bank. Oh, wow. From 20 to 21, I didn't know what to do in life. I had a place at university to do physical education because I was always sporty, played rugby, played cricket, did athletics, and I always fancied being a PE teacher. And then at the last minute, I turned the opportunity down, much to the disgust of my mum and dad. And I didn't go to. I didn't go to university and didn't know what I was going to do. And I ended up going into banking for a year in Hull, Lloyd's bank, Silver street in Hull. And I did that for a year and hated every minute of it, to be honest, because I hated being sat in four walls all day. And I was young, I was married early, had a family early, no money. So one of the things which I looked at and thought, right, I need a vehicle. How do I get a vehicle? Become a sales rep. If you became a sales rep in those years, you got a car with a job. So I worked it out. Get a sales rep's job. And I was fortunate enough to achieve that goal.

Lord Russell: Brilliant. Of course, the good thing about getting a car in those days, as a company car, you didn't have to pay tax, did you, on the car?

Colin Graves: No, you didn't. It was a great perk. And from my point of view, that's why I applied to get into repping and I managed to get into the grocery trade with a company called Jarman and Flint in Hull, who was a spa wholesaler, because at that time, I was living on the outskirts of York. So from that point, of view. I was fortunate. I got a job as a trainee rep at the age of 21. I didn't know anything about groceries at all, about the food industry, but I learned very quickly and by the time I was 30, 31, I was sales director. So I worked my way through from bottom to the top in virtually ten years and had a great background and training in the retail trade.

Lord Russell: Yeah, fantastic. It was a great intro actually, those 16 years and I think most of us actually, when we start off, we never really know what we want to do, do we? And I think most people just fall into their professions or whatever they do and, you know, come out the other end, you know, successfully. A huge success, hopefully.

Colin Graves: Yeah, that certainly happened to me. And as I said, the retail trade and the grocery trade, it doesn't ruin my family. So there was nothing there to drag me towards it. But I ended up in it and enjoyed every minute of it. I loved it.

Lord Russell: Fantastic. It's all down to yourself as the individual, isn't it? Not to do as your parents say, do set your own journey out, which you've done, which is fantastic.

Colin Graves: Yeah. And it was good to do that because firstly it was something I could. I'm pretty much a hands on individual, so lovely ******* routine of working in shops, merchandising, laying shops out, all that kind of thing, et cetera. It went down really well.

Lord Russell: Fantastic. And after gaining that extensive experience at spa, you then went on to found cost cutter in 1986. The unique concept at the time revolutionized the grocery sector through its innovative network of convenience stores. So, Colin, please tell us more about this exciting platform that enabled independent retailers to compete with the largest supermarkets. That's a great thing, isn't it? Through collective buying and marketing. An amazing concept at the time, Colin, brilliant.

Colin Graves: Yeah, it was interesting and it was one of those things. Again, I was in the right place at the right time. I've been with Spark for, as you said, a long time, 16 years. And virtually I knew it was time to do something different. So I was sales director at the time. I was the youngest director on the board. I went on holiday with my wife and family. I came back and handed my notice in on the Monday morning and said, that's it, I'm leaving. Which they're all staggered about and couldn't believe it and said, well, you're stupid doing that. You've throwing everything away. You're 36, got a good salary, good pension, healthcare, car, all the rest of it. And I had nothing to go to. I didn't have a clue what I was going to do. I just knew I needed to do something different. And I was traveling like 3000 miles a week all over the north of England especially. And my wife firstly said to me, well, if you carry on as you're doing, you're going to kill yourself in the cow one day, so why don't you look at doing something different?

Lord Russell: Very wise advice. Very wise advice from your wife.

Colin Graves: Yeah, it was actually. But as I say, I had no idea what I was going to do. I went on a cricket tour for three weeks. She said, go away and get your head in the right place. So I went on a cricket tour down to Gloucestershire for three weeks, played cricket for three weeks on a tour, had a great time, scored a lot of runs, enjoyed every minute, brilliant, enjoyed every minute of it. Came back and out the blue. One of the spa retailers, who I'd grown up with and knew very well, rang me when I got back and said, what you're doing next Tuesday night, come round to my house. I just want to pick your brains and have a word with you. And when I went round to his house, he lived just around the corner from me. There was 20 of the X Bar retailers who were all there waiting to talk to me and see me. And they got together because by then it was two months down the line and they didn't like what was happening after I left. And they asked me to work for them independently as a consultant, advising them on the business. They were going to stay in spa and trade as spa still, but they wanted me to advise them and show them how to run the business more profitably and all those kind of things bat the oil shooting match. So I went away, put a proposition together, got them together three weeks afterwards and seven of them signed up straight away. Wow. And that was the start of my consultancy business, which I then developed into a fuller concept of a buying organization, sourcing product from the suppliers and doing it through wholesalers to get them a better price. And then three years after that, they were still trading spa. Three years after that. The seven had grown into somewhere in the region of about 30 stores by then who were paying me as a consultant. And they sat me down. I used to get them together every six weeks in the viking hotel in York. And they sat me down at the end of the meeting and said, right, we want something different now. You've done a great job. We've got 30 stores, we've got some big stores, some big volume. We want our own fascia, we want our own identity, we want a leaf spa. We want our own warehouse, we want you to set it up, basically. And I came away from there thinking, how the hell am I going to do that? That is massive to do, because I certainly wasn't put with cash to do that and setting all that kind of thing up. But again, I've been fortunately, in the right place at the right time. And a couple of things happened in the next two months before I met them all again. Firstly, there was an independent retailer in Mansfield who traded, a Sherwood cost cutter who went into administration, and a company I knew in Barnsley who used to be a spa wholesaler called Bob Willis Rt. Willis discount bought those two stores from the administrator to run them as his own stores under Willis discount. And I rang Bob Willis up and went to see him and I said to him, basically, what you're doing with the name Koscara? And he said, well, I'm not going to use it. I'm going to trade those two stores as Woolley's discount, as I've said. I said, well, can I buy the name of you? So he said, by all means, give me a fiver and you can have it. And that's how I got the name Costco. So I bought the name of him, registered the company, and while I was there, I cheekily said to him, well, if you're going to do that, then, Bob, you've got a distribution center in Barnsley you're servicing. By then, he had some like 85 of his own stores in Yorkshire. Will you service my 30 stores who were virtually passing the doorsteps anyway? They were all in Yorkshire. Will you service my 30 stores with product, with milk, with bread, and all the other things that he was doing? And he virtually politely told me to go away. He said, I used to do. I used to do that when I was a spouse. I don't want to go back into that. So I said, well, just think about it. And I said, there's a new way we can do this. Instead of you dealing with the retailers, I'll deal with the retailer. You send me the invoices, I'll take responsibility for payment from the invoices and I'll check with retailer. So you give me 21 days credit, I'll give the retailer 14 days credit, and the responsibility of the invoice is mine. And for that, I will charge the retailer a 1% gross profit margin. And he looked at me and said, hmm, come back in two weeks and see me. So I went back to see him in two weeks time and he said, right, we'll give it a go. For a year and see how it goes. And so I got. Went back to the retailers two weeks afterwards. So I thought, right, there's your name, there's your Facebook cost Cutter, and there's your distribution coming from Barnsley. It's within the territory that you all operate. Operating. And that's how cost Cutter was established.

Lord Russell: Incredible. What story? That's a remarkable story, isn't it? Really is. Talk about everything all falling in place at the right time. That's just absolutely incredible.

Colin Graves: It was one of those things that it just happened.

Lord Russell: Yeah.

Colin Graves: But by doing that, I took an enormous risk, because if that strategy had gone wrong, because if ever I had a debt in the first two years where the retailer didn't pay me and I couldn't pay Bob Willis, then I would have had a massive, massive problem.

Lord Russell: Yes.

Colin Graves: Fortunately, from my point of view, that never happened. So it gave me the chance to grow the business. And by the time I moved on that business from Bob Willis, because Bob Willis could only service Yorkshire, and I started getting applications from London, from the south coast, from Scotland, so I then needed to look at a national distribution system rather than just Yorkshire. And so I joined a buying organization called NYSEr, which is the National Independence Supermarkets association. And I virtually joined. That was a buying organization a lot bigger than me, with a lot more members. So I joined that buying organization. They invited me to sit on their board and by the time I sold costcutter in 2012, we accounted for 33% of the 9th volume.

Lord Russell: That's incredible. I mean, quite rightly, you served as chairman of cost Cutter promised exception, and as you just said, until 2012, when the group were bought out by Bibby Line Group, I believe it was during your tenure, you played a pivotal role in the expansion of the group from one store in 1986 to over 1700 stores in 2012. Phenomenal growth, isn't it? Has it evolved into a beloved british brand with operations across the country, as you said? I mean, this indeed is a huge business success, Colin, isn't it?

Colin Graves: Yeah. People say to me, how did you plan it? How did you make it all happen? In all honest truth, I didn't plan it. It happened.

Lord Russell: It happened.

Colin Graves: And virtually, it was one of those businesses that I hung onto its coattails because it was like a snowball rolling downhill. It kept getting bigger and bigger and bigger. And basically we were growing at the rate of 100 stores a year, all franchise stores. And one thing which a lot of people don't appreciate, with Costco, the way it was operated as a franchise business, something like 83% of my franchisees were asian, were asian families, people who had run their own businesses but wanted to trade under aphasia, under a franchise fascia. So I worked with and still know a hell of lots of asian families, asian retailers from all over India, Pakistan, Sri Lanka, you name it. I've been to their houses, I've been on holiday with them, I've been to their country. I've still got a lot of those as friends from my point of view, which is great.

Lord Russell: That's amazing. And of course, when the deal was announced with the Bibby Line group, I think in November 2012, you were to remain as chairman at the time. But in January the following year, the business tried to change your role to that of a non executive chairman. Ouch. That really hurts. Which you described as unacceptable. Quite rightly so, too. And you said at the time, and I quote, I'm not much, I'm very much a hands on operator, as you said earlier on in the show. And being a non executive chair wasn't acceptable to me. And quite right, Colin. After all, you were the founder of Costcutter in 1986. I mean, I don't blame you.

Colin Graves: Well, the big thing, which once they got control of the company, naturally they could do what they wanted to do with it. I accepted that. I had no issue with that, provided they kept the company as it was and it was going in the right direction. Michael Bibby, who was the chief exec of Bibby Line group at that time, decided very quickly that he wanted to take the business in a different direction with a different distribution buying partner. So he wanted to leave Nicer and set up a buying organization with a company called Palmer and Harvey. And I said to him, if you go down that direction, then I'm leaving because it's the wrong thing to do for this business. Even though you've paid me my money, which is fine if you're going to do that, I'm not going to stay as non, just use my name for the group because it's the wrong thing to be doing. And that's the reason I left, because he changed the strategy of Koscara, he changed the supply, he changed the charging model, he changed everything, which I was dead against him doing it. And therefore I left. And history tells the story that virtually in three years from when he changed the model, he virtually lost somewhere in the region of 75 million pounds by changing the model. Lost a hell of a lot of retailers to other organizations. Unbelievable business. And the business went backwards at 1000 miles an hour.

Lord Russell: Wow, that's just unbelievable, isn't it completely unbelievable. But as you say, you've got. You have no control over that. They owned. They owned the business, they could do what they like and they sold in the wrong direction completely, didn't they? Madness. Complete madness.

Colin Graves: I accepted all that. But I said to them, I'm not saying, just use my name as non exec chairman to keep everybody happy, because it's the wrong thing you are doing, you're taking the business in the wrong direction.

Lord Russell: Yeah, definitely. But of course, your love for cricket came to the afore and as one door closes, another opens. Usually does, doesn't it, Colin? And he became the executive chairman of Yorkshire County Cricket Club with immediate effect, and remained in that post from 2012 to 2015, remarkably taking on the responsibilities of executive chairman, a position unfulfilled since Stuart Reagan left for a similar role at the Scottish Football association in 2010. So, please tell us more about your three years at the helm of York Yorkshire County Cricket Club and the ups and downs as you steered Yorkshire County Cricket Club through some successful times, winning the county championship twice in 2014 and 2015. Fantastic.

Colin Graves: Well, my time with professional cricket started, actually in 2002. Before that, I was just a recreational cricketer, playing for a team called Dunnington Duning two NDE on the outskirts of York for something like 35 years. That was my local team. I helped build that team and built the facilities into one of the finest facilities in Yorkshire. So I've been a recreational cricket. I have no intention of getting involved with professional cricket at all. I knew quite a few of the players, especially Jeff Koch, who I've grown up with, and our families grew up together, and I knew cope very well. And Kopi, over the years, had tried to get me to sit on the old Yorkshire committee, which was something like a 32 body strong committee. And I said, well, I'm sorry, Geoff, but committees aren't my bag. I don't believe in all that kind of structure, etcetera, so I never did it. So in June 2002, I think it was May or June. Anyway, kirpi rang me and said, and I was running Costco at this time, as you've already said. So I had a full time job anyway, in York. Kopi said, what you doing tomorrow? I'd like you to come to Hedonle. We've got a few issues with. With the club. So I turned up at Hedley next day, and the story is that on that day, there was the regional director of HSBC bank, who was my, funny enough, regional director for cost Cutter. I used the same bank, right. So he said, thanks for coming we know you're a cricket nut, Colin, and you love cricket and you're passionate about it. You love Yorkshire. We need you to help us out of a situation that we've got. And the situation in 2002 was Yorkshire had an overdraft of 5 million pounds. They started to redevelop the western terrace. They didn't control the cost of it. They ended up with an overdraft of 5 million pounds with HSBC bank. They owned no assets. They only had a 99 year lease from the rugby side. They didn't own a blade of grass, they owned nothing. Wow. And everybody said. Everybody said to me, you will not turn it round. It's impossible. Wow. So there was a gang of four who were appointed by the bank. Robin Smith became chairman, who was the previous president? Jeff Cope became cricket director. I became chief exec of Yorkshire in 2002, and a guy called Brian Battell from ex KPMG became the finance director. So the gang of four took over Yorkshire County Cricket Club. The old committee were disbanded and told I had to resign, otherwise they wouldn't survive. So we took over Yorkshire in 2002 in dire straits. Absolute dire straits. So the first thing we did, after two or three years, I said to the board, then board of four, we need to buy the ground. Everybody looks at me and said, you must be stupid. So I ended up negotiating with Paul Caddick at rugby, and in 2005, we purchased the ground from Paul Caddick, from the rugby side for 13.5 million pounds. So Yorkshire, for the first time in its history, owned the asset of heddenly cricket stadium. So in 2005, we own the stadium. That's where. And again, a lot of people don't realize this. That's where my family trust came into the equation, because Yorkshire were looking to borrow money to raise that 13 and a half million pounds to buy the ground. So along with the bank, along with Leed City council, along with my family trust, run by independent trustees, they jointly funded purchasing Hedonlea Cricket Ground. And that's how my family trust first got involved with the Oakshire County Cricket Club.

Lord Russell: What a story. That's an incredible story, really.

Colin Graves: So in 2005, we bought the ground and we then said how we're going to develop it. And we worked with various partners. Leeds Carnegie virtually was the university around the corner. They built the new Carnegie pivot pavilion, I think that was in 2007, which cost 35 million pounds. They funded all that and we leased it from them and we worked jointly together. They used it as a faculty for marketing, journalism, et cetera, et cetera. So we had a brand new building built for us. All we had to do was Kitty Town. And then, as history goes, I think four years ago, five years ago, they virtually sold us that pavilion at a peppercorn price. So Yorkshire now own that pavilion, which is incredible. So it's an asset on the club's balance sheet. So from that point of view, we then developed the east stand with the facilities in the long room. And then the last thing we did was the Howard stand again, working with Leeds City Council, working with Leeds rugby, an LNG, to build a stand and do it on a sale and purchase back over a 30 year period. So, heavenly cricket Ground has had a hell of a lot of investment put into it over the last 20 years, 25 years. And when you think in 2002, we didn't earn anything, that's an incredible story.

Lord Russell: In fact, Yorkshire County Cricket Club have, in fact, won the county, the cricket County Championship no less than 32 times since 1893. So it shows the rich history of Yorkshire County Cricket Club, really does. So, a hugely successful cricket club, of which you presided over with those two Championship wins in 2014 and 2015. In fact, I think 2015 was the last time Yorkshire won the first class cricket crown. So you must feel extremely privileged and honoured to be part of the club's incredible history. And what you just said, Conan says it all, really, doesn't it?

Colin Graves: Yeah. It's one of those things, if you're a Yorkshire person. Crickets in your blood. Yes. I was brought up on a farm. I had a dad and two brothers who all played cricket. I think I can remember picking up a bat when I was five years of age. We had our own cricket pitch in the field. All our friends and relatives used to come and play cricket, so I've been playing cricket since I was five. I virtually started playing league cricket when I was 13, and I finished playing league cricket, I think, when I was 60, basically. So from that point of view, it's in your blood, it's a heritage. And that's why, over the years, I've done the things I've done for Yorkshire County Cricket Club, because it is part of my life. There's no way I can sit here and watch Yorkshire County Cricket Club disappear and go into administration. That would have been a disaster for that time.

Lord Russell: Absolutely not. That can't happen. That really can't happen. So I'm with you on that, I can assure you. What was Martin Moxon like to work with, who was the director of cricket at the time, and, of course, a former first class cricketer for Yorkshire and England?

Colin Graves: Martin Mockton, was a great guy. In fact, it was me who I put the team together with, the executive at Yorkshire over the years that was there and made sure we've got the right people running the club. And at the time, Martin was at Durham as director of cricket. He'd gone up there. He'd been badly treated by the previous regime at Yorkshire, which seemed to be good at doing that over the years. But Martin went up to Durham and was doing a really good job with Durham, still lived at weather bit down the road. And I approached Martin and said, look, I'd love you to come to Yorkshire. You've got a Yorkshire heritage, you played for Yorkshire, you were successful, all those kind of things, you played for England, you're doing a good job at Durham. I want you to come and help me sort Yorkshire out. And to be honest, after. Didn't take me long to sit down and talk to him about my vision for Yorkshire and what we needed to do, and he would have total control of the cricket. And Martin is a great person. He is. Yorkshire through and through is the most genuine. Is the most genuine person you can come across, to be honest. And Martin and I know all the things that have been said and printed over the last three, four years. Martin Moxon has not got a racist bone in his body and would know how to be racist.

Lord Russell: Yeah, well, yeah, I've heard about all of that stuff. And to be fair, I've kept it out of this script because, you know, it's just. It what gets printed in press, by the press these days and in newspapers and the like is just. It's just unbelievable, isn't it? It really is.

Colin Graves: It's sad, to be honest. God, it sounds like what's happened. And a lot of people have been. In fact, their lives have been ruined by it, to be honest, and the families have been damaged and the careers have been being taken away from them. And, you know, there's a lot of people out there, 25, 30 people, who've been badly affected by it all. And that was another reason for me to go back to Yorkshire is to make sure that these people, somewhere down the line, can be rehabilitated into a scenario where they can hold the head up high because they deserve that.

Lord Russell: Yeah, I quite agree with you. Enough to be said about the gutter press, I'm afraid. It's terrible in the UK. It really is. Must be one of the worst, impressive environments in the world, I think, this country. But anyway, enough said about that. And of course, in your time as executive chairman of Yorkshire county, cricket Club, you had the honour of working with two other Yorkshire county cricket clubs, icons and legends with club presidents. And this guy needs no introduction. Sir Geoffrey Boycott, of course, in 2012 and 2014. What a gentleman. And, of course, the fantastic umpire, Dicky Bird, in 2014 and 2015. These are two huge names in cricket and, quite simply, need no introduction, of course, huge characters with huge personalities. So there must be some great moments of stories you can share with us, Colin. I. I mean, Jeffrey boycott Dicky Bird. There has to be, doesn't it?

Colin Graves: Well, to be honest, there's even more, because virtually from my time at Yorkshire, the president I served under, this is going to make you sit up, was Bob Acleyard.

Lord Russell: Oh, wow.

Colin Graves: Brian Close.

Lord Russell: Oh, Brian Close.

Colin Graves: Railing with Jeffrey Boycott, of course, and Dicky Bird. So those are the presidents I was honored to serve under. And, yeah, I got to know those people really, really well. And they're just, again, genuine Yorkshire people who are passionate about Yorkshire cricket. And like me, they live and breathe Yorkshire cricket. And again, there's a little story which I'll share with you, because, again, I think it's interesting to see how Yorkshire evolved and how Yorkshire developed. When I went to Yorkshire in 2002, those people I've mentioned, the x great players, were not on friendly terms. They were very divided. That had ups and downs between one another over the years. And the first thing we had to do was we built the new east stand, and we're talking about at the board who we were going to ask to open the east stand. And course, somebody said, close. Somebody said, boycott. Somebody said, ellingworth. And then somebody said, well, do you realize that whichever one you choose, you're going to have a problem? Because they don't get on very well at all? So I said, right, leave it with me. So, very mischievously, I rang each one of them, one by one, and said, right, what you doing on Wednesday, the 18 May, whatever date it was, I'd like you to come along and open the new east end for us as an ex Yorkshire great and all the rest of it. So naturally, they all said, oh, yeah, that's great, you know, yeah, I'll come and do that gladly. But I didn't tell them at the time that the others were coming as well. So we ended up with all seven of them turning up that day to up the east stand, and they did it jointly, together. And of course, when they looked at me, they could have killed me, I think. And because they'll say, you, you've really dropped me in this. But what I had organized is a lunch for them. After they've done the opening ceremony together, I organized a lunch for them, put a lunch on where they could sit down and talk, and I just started it off and then I left it to them. And those guys stayed there together until about 07:00 at night. And from that day onwards, they became friends. Wow. They got to know one another better. They virtually severed the differences and the work together and did everything to help me developed Yorkshire into what it was. And they then took on the presidency when I asked them, because they could only do it for two years. So one by one, they became presidents of the club and we all worked together to get Yorkshire into where it was in 2014 and 2015 to win consecutive county championship.

Lord Russell: Absolutely. What an amazing thing to do. Yeah, it was mischievous, but actually a brilliant, brilliant process, wasn't it, really, Colin, to be honest, you did very well with that. I like it. Bear onto my own heart. You are.

Colin Graves: It works.

Lord Russell: Fantastic. And, of course, you were also elected deputy chairman of the England and Wales Cricket Board, the ECB as we know it, in April 2013. And in 2015, you succeeded Giles Clark as chairman to serve until 2020. Another massive role to play in cricket calling. And, of course, you were still the executive chairman at Yorkshire County Cricket Club whilst you were deputy chairman at the ECB. How did you juggle those responsibilities?

Colin Graves: Well, what happened in those days, it's changed since now, the way you got elected onto the ECB board, because in those days, the ECB board was made up of four county members, it was made up of MCC, it was made up of four independent directors, so it was a different structure. And the way you got elected onto the board was the county chairman used to have an election, though you virtually had what they call two cat A and two Cat C members. So when it came to the catays, the international grounds, coming to an election for their representative, I got asked by the others to put my name forward and represent the catay grounds, which was an honour from my point of view, because I didn't know any of them from Adam, to be honest. I've just come into it new. So they asked me to go on the board and represent the cat a grounds, which I did, along with the three other county chairman at that time, which was Peter Wright, Ian Lovett and Andy Nash at Somerset. So there was four of us who represented the counties. There was Matthew Fleming at MCC, and then virtually, that's how I got elected on the board. And then, after two years, the deputy chairman came up for a renewal and the person who held that position was a guy called Nigel Hillier from Essex, who'd held that position for a number of years. Again, the county chairman and the board members on that board asked me to stand for an election for deputy chairman, which I won the election to become deputy chairman as the vote amongst all the counties. And then two years after that, the chairman's role came up again for re election, and the county chairman again asked me to stand against Giles Clark. And I said to them, well, Giles has been in position for nearly twelve years, are you sure that's what you want? And they all said, yes, they did. So I sat down with Giles and said, look, I've been asked to stand against you. I don't want an election. I think you've been here twelve years. They want change, they want me to have a go at it and do it. So can we come to some sort of compromise between us? And that's what we did, and we didn't. Nobody else stood against me. So I got elected and opposed as chairman of ECB in 2015.

Lord Russell: Fantastic. Fantastic. What a journey. What a journey that is.

Colin Graves: So, from 2002, I was chairman of Dunnington Cricket Club, playing in the York Senior League, and in 2015, I was elected chairman of english cricket. And I kept thinking, I kept thinking to myself, how the hell did that happen? I never looked for it, I didn't go asking for it, I never pushed it, because all that time, I was still running my business at Costco until 2012. So I had a full time job anyway, running a big business and running Yorkshire and getting that in the right place and doing ECB rolls. So I was a bit busy.

Lord Russell: You were a bit busy indeed, yeah. What a journey that is. An incredible journey. And not surprisingly, you were appointed a Commander of the Order of the British Empire CBE in the 2020 New year's honours for services to cricket. Well, I mean, what an honour. Con. Please tell us more. And of course, where did you receive the CBE and from whom?

Colin Graves: Yeah, again, that was something which was one of the highlights of my life so far. I never anticipated anything like that, because the honours and all that kind of system have never been something that I'd even thought about or aimed for. But that was done on the back of England winning the World cup in 2019. I chaired the World cup board for organising that 2019 competition in England and Wales. Fantastic. It was a great story, it was a great adventure. We run that for four years and made it happen. It was, I think, the most successful World cup tournament has ever been. The amount of tickets we sold was phenomenal. Something like 93%. The grounds were sold out, of course. The ice cream on top of the cake was virtually England winning that World cup in 2019, which is a day I'll never forget. It was unbelievable. And to be part of that journey, I was proud and privileged to be there and hold that position at the time. And then, unexpectedly, I received the news on the 20 December that I was going to be given a CBE. So I was highly delighted with that. And I did the. I actually got my CBE at Buckingham palace and I was presented it by William, Prince William, who was excellent. And it was a proud day for me to receive that. On behalf of services to cricket, of course.

Lord Russell: A massive, massive honour. And well deserved, too, your time in cricket. You deservedly received your gong, shall we call it, at that time. Quite rightly so, too. And in 2023, you were looking to return to Yorkshire County Cricket Club as executive chairman again, but pulled out of the race to become chairman, and in doing so, taking a little swipe at the board, too, accusing the board of acting negligently and against Yorkshire's best interest by rejecting your offer to help save the club. So what was this all about, Colin? After all, Yorkshire County Creek club is in your heart and soul. It all sounds quite drastic again, too, doesn't it?

Colin Graves: It was, unfortunately, because the board, at that time, in 2023, were getting themselves into a financial situation. They were looking to refinance the club, which was well known and well documented throughout the press and everywhere else. And I got asked by the board in February 2023 if I would look at putting an offer into them to refinance the club and what that looked like. I put that offer in and it dragged on and dragged on and dragged on till about June time. I was getting mixed messages. I was going nowhere with it. So in June July time, I just had some. Look, you must have better offers on the table. I've got other things to be doing. So I'll withdraw my offer and you carry on doing what you're doing to refinance the club, and good luck to you. And I'm there in the background if it didn't work out. So I withdrew my offer on that basis because I have no proper communication from the board. And that's why I said they were acting negligently, because the ant even sat down and really talked to me about what the offer was or how I envisioned it would work, which was disappointing, especially with my track record, both at Heddenleigh at Yorkshire and at ECB. So that's why I said the comments are made and I stood by them. So virtually the next thing I knew was it came to the end of November and I got another phone call from a board member who said, look, we thought we had a deal on the table to take over the club and resolve our financial situation. Looks as though it's falling away. Would you like to put in your offer again to help refinance the club and take it forward? So I said, yes, I would, but I said it would be a different offer with different things attached to that offer, but I said, yes, I would. So I put that offer in about seven days afterwards. And then that went on until virtually just before Christmas. And then just before Christmas, they accepted my offer with all the conditions that were with it, to come back into Yorkshire to try and sort the mess out that had been established.

Lord Russell: Absolutely. And I think the term cash strapped was used earlier this year as well, around Yorkshire County Cricket Club, which is a dreadful thing to go because you did it. You went through all this in 2002 as well, didn't you, Colin? And you're back to. Back to the. It's gone a full circle. Almost. A really sad situation.

Colin Graves: Sure. That really is. It is a sad situation, because in real terms, for that to happen, you couldn't have written that script. But basically, when I got reelected by the members to come back as chairman on the 9 February 2024, yes, I went back in there and virtually found a 7 million pound black hole, which was absolutely huge, considering that from 2015, when I left Yorkshire, to 2021, that business had made a profit every year, and it paid its debt down from 23 million pounds in 2015 to 15 million pounds in 2021. So it paid 8 million pounds worth of debt down. Been profitable every year, being successful on the field, and everything was going in the right direction and it ticked all the boxes regarding what we were doing as a cricket club.

Lord Russell: Fantastic. Yes, indeed. I mean, you succeeded the interim chair, of course, Baroness Tenny Gray Thompson, who's a mutual friend, of course, who will remain on the board as a non executive director and previous chair, Harry Chaffley. I think I pronounced his name right, but correct me if I'm wrong, and of course, the Yorkshire members accepted a loan offer that you've just said to the debt ridding club from yourself and your consortium. And of course, you previously served as executive chairman as well, and helped save the club from the financial route in 2002, as we just said, you could say you are. And I'll use this term now forever etched in Yorkshire history. The title of this show, it's a wonderful story, isn't it? You're back there again.

Colin Graves: It is, yeah. If somebody had written that story, one eye wouldn't have believed them. And I don't think many people would have been. The previous board, to be honest, got into this financial difficulty. And all of them now, you know, Tanne Gray, Baroness Tannegray Thompson. They've all now left the board. We've got a total, completely new board. Harry Chapley stood down. So we brought people in to like Philip Hodgson, who used to play cricket for Yorkshire. Yes, Philip ran the MCC foundation, very successfully. Steeped in Yorkshire history on cricket. A sound, solid businessman as well. And he's put money into Yorkshire to help us through financial situation. We've got people like Sanjeev Gandhi, who sat on the hundred board when I established the hundred at the ECB. Sandra's a very wise counsel, very astute businessman. We've got people now like Catherine Shriver Bunt. We've got Karen Woodhouse, who virtually is at the LTN. He's worked in rugby league. And then the other person I brought in was Sanjay Patel, who's the managing director of the hundred and worked with me at the ECB. And then the last one is Ian Townend, who represents the members on the board. Again, Ian sleeps in cricket history in Yorkshire. Both he and his son play cricket. Recreational cricket. Successful businessman. So what I've tried to do is to get a very tight knit board together to understand the Yorkshire, understand cricket, understand business, what it's all about. And we are now starting to get to grips with it and turn it around.

Lord Russell: That's fantastic to hear. It really is. I mean, you did say, and I quote, it was your intention to work tirelessly with the board to resolve the financial position in which the club currently finds itself, and to restore financial stability and sustainability to Yorkshire cricket for generations to come. You also stated the time, and I quote, it is my personal pledge to members and to the entire Yorkshire public that regardless of background, community or ethnicity, all will be welcome in the fully inclusive culture and environment of Yorkshire County Cricket Club. And in addition, there will never be any exceptions. Lessons have been learned and will continue to be acted on as we move forward and focus on the future of our great club. A huge task awaits you, Colin, doesn't it? But beautiful words. Absolutely fantastic.

Colin Graves: Yeah. It is a huge task because virtually what we've gone through from the racism situation that we've experienced, I think everybody's learnt lessons by that. We have now got structures in place and people in place for EDi, for equity, diversity and inclusion. We've got now a separate department. Who runs that? It's gold standard, to be honest. I went back in there and it is really gold standard. It's top of the tree. Our safeguarding people regarding the children and the kids and everybody else that come into cricket and made sure we look after them properly. Our whole structure is changing dramatically with the pathways that's going to be redefined as a proper pathway. So, yeah, there's a massive job to do in there, but the culture now of that club, I can assure you, is open to everybody. We welcome everybody at Headingley and Yorkshire County Cricket Club, I can assure you, is certainly nowhere near being any racist institution whatsoever.

Lord Russell: Yeah, I completely agree and I fully accept that's the case. I really do. So, huge luck with that. And hopefully the muddy waters that were created by press in recent years suddenly subside and you get some good press coming through in the end about Yorkshire County Cricket Club, because they are a great club. I mean, you are truly a great man, con. There's no doubt about that. Your heart, mind and soul is in Yorkshire County Cricket Club and that's coming across, really on the show as well. It's good to hear. It's fantastic.

Colin Graves: Thanks very much indeed.

Lord Russell: Welcome. Now back to business. There's been a back to back business here. Business and sport always go hand in hand, I always find. Now, back to business. For the last six years, you have served as chairman of the advisory board of Nisa, a key partner of Ascona Group. In keeping with Ascona's strategy to develop the next evolution of roadside retail destinations with first class or first rate convenience stores, I understand Colin will also play an invaluable role, supporting the executive team to realize its strategic ambitions. This sounds like a great venture, Colin.

Colin Graves: Yeah, it is. The person, virtually, who's the MD and the CEO of Oskona Group is a guy called Darren Briggs. I've known Darren for 20 years. His background is in fuel, retailing, petrol stations, and when I sold pocket, he had a couple of stores then. Since then, he's grown and developed into. I think he's now got 75, 76 locations around the UK. And when I stood down from the nicer board as chairman of nicer, when my term came to an end, he rang me and said, would I go on his board to help him with his strategy for the next five years to continue developing the business, growing the business. So I jumped at the opportunity to help him because I know what it's like when you. When you're in business starting off that kind of situation, you need as many good people around you to point in the right direction and hopefully I'm, as I'm starting to achieve that with him and fingers crossed job. It's all going very well.

Lord Russell: That's good to hear. That's very good to hear. I mean, you've been in that position yourself, haven't you? Starting cost cutters, so you know exactly what it's like to have the right people around you.

Colin Graves: Yeah, exactly. And it's important to be honest that you get the right advice and you use as a sounding board what to be doing in the next twelve months, look at the market, find out which niche you need to be jumping into, etc. So yeah, I think I've been able to bring something to the table to help Darren and the rest of the board and yeah, we're going in the right direction with that as well. So it's looking positive.

Lord Russell: That's good to hear. And of course, to add additional credence to your role at Eskona, Darren Briggs, as you just mentioned, the founder and chief executive officer of Ascona Group commented, and I quote, we are thrilled to welcome Colin to the Eskona family. Oh, that's a nice word, isn't it? His unparalleled expertise in the convenience retail sector and visionary leadership are exactly what we need to help us execute our strategic ambitions. As a fellow founder of business, Colin's track record of success, of success at cost cutter speaks for itself and we are confident that his insights will be invaluable to us all as we continue to innovate and expand our world class operations across the country. I mean, that's some accolade, Colin, isn't it? You must feel proud and honoured to be thought of so well in your field of entrepreneurial business insight and delivery.

Colin Graves: It's incredible, yeah. When people say that, I have to pinch myself and think, is he really talking about. Is he really talking about me?

Lord Russell: Well, of course he is.

Colin Graves: Absolutely. No, it is an accolade and I take it with great pride that I've been able to, if you like, leave my mark on the retail convenience sector. I say, I've been in it now for a long time, really, from the age of 20, so I've been in it nearly 55 years now. Basically, in that sector, it's the sector I enjoy. I love retail and I love the buzz of it and I love building a business. That's one thing I've been able to do. And it's the same with cricket really? I've been at Yorkshire twice, as you've already said. Each time, that business has been at its rock bottom and in a mess, and I've been able touch wood, to turn it around, get the right people in. And that's the biggest thing in any business, is to get the right people around you.

Lord Russell: Yeah, the right people and committed people, too.

Colin Graves: Yeah. And if you do that, then you stand a chance of getting that business back into where it needs to be. And that power, aim and ambition on the cricket side as well. Because without any shadow of doubt, the one thing that happened in 2021, when the 20 odd people left the business at Yorkshire, that really ripped the heart out of Yorkshire County Cricket Club, and that was massive. And the whole heartbeat of that club went overnight.

Lord Russell: Sad to hear. Sad to hear. So, you know, building up from scratch again. A tough task, isn't it? But I know that listening to you here as well, and what I've read about you and everything else, you're just a man to do it, Colin. I know you'll succeed. And with Yorkshire County Cricket Club at hand at the moment, how are they doing this year in the Championship?

Colin Graves: First class cricket in the Championship, we've virtually been hit and miss, really. The good thing, the last two matches before the break, when the Championship came to its break, we won those last two matches, so that put us back up into third. We've got five matches left, we've got to play first and second, so we've got to play Sussex and Middlesex, who stand above us at the present time. So really, it's in our own destiny. If we can get two good results against those two, then we will be in a good position. So, from that point of view, after a sluggish start, we came back strong and we're looking forward to the last five matches to try and get into that promotional slot. We've got a very good young team because we started again. So we've got some exciting young players in there. Some exciting young batsmen, especially the bowlers, are still learning and the all rounders are still learning, but that's the way cricket is. We've every confidence in them. We're supporting them and giving them the contracts that they deserve, as and when they come to be renegotiated. So the mood around the club is fairly positive. When I went in there in February, it was very much down on its knees and everybody was despondent. So there's a lot of positivity around the club now. They know which direction we're going in, they know what our ambitions are. And from that point of view, I believe we'll get there in the next three, four years. You can't change it overnight. You can't wave a magic wand. I believe in the next three or four years, Yorkshire back in the first division in county cricket and we'll be competing at top level.

Lord Russell: Brilliant. That's really good to hear. And of course, it's always good to let the, let the, let the field of play the cricket, actually, to be the voice of the club as well, isn't it, really? And, you know, if it all goes well on the pitch, then obviously that rejuvenates everything else within the club, too. So it'd be good to see Yorkshire back in the first division, competing at the top level, the championship levels again, and maybe another championship win.

Colin Graves: The one thing our members want, and people, at this point in time, it's still a members club. Our members basically want success. It's the cricket club. They thrive on success. They love to see players coming through. If you look at Yorkshire's history over the years, we've always produced England international players, from Joe Root, Johnny Bestow, all those kind of people. Brooks, two of you go. Back when I first went there, there was people like Darren Goff, Craig White side bottom. We had stacks of England players and we always have produced England players. And to be honest, you know, there's an old adage in cricket, and people say to me this on a regular basis, when Yorkshire is strong, England's strong. And from that point of view, that's what I've got to do. One of my jobs before I move on is to make sure we get Yorkshire strong, both financially and back on the field.

Lord Russell: Absolutely right. Of course, going back in the day to play for Yorkshire, you had to be born in Yorkshire, didn't you? That's not the case anymore, is it? I tell you some funny stories. I've known guys who live in Yorkshire, or in Lancashire, too, and they used to cross the border to go into Yorkshire to have their babies, you know, the children born to ensure they could play for cricket, for Yorkshire, if they were good enough. I mean, there's wonderful little stories, aren't they? They really are fantastic.

Colin Graves: Oh, the number of people, the number of people over the years who's come up to me and told me their own individual stories of what the mum and dad did to make sure that they were born in the county, to make sure they qualified for the county. Some fantastic stories. You know, people would even travel from abroad to make sure, you know, the children were born in, within the county, which is great, but that's all changed now. And it's changed for the better, to be honest, because it had changed. It was. It was too instiller in many ways, because the world's changes. Different world is then.

Lord Russell: It is a different world. Yeah. And that. That did change quite a number of years ago, too, didn't it? The. Because you can be anyone now and play for your. As long as you're good enough, of course. Doesn't matter, you're born.

Colin Graves: And we were the last county who actually took on overseas players. Our first overseas players. And again, a lot of people forget, this was Saf in Tendulka, and he was the first overseas player that came to play for Yorkshire, but we were like three, four, five years behind other counties who've done it for years.

Lord Russell: Yes. Yes. So you've got to move the times, haven't you, these days? You really have to. As you say, it's a different world and you've got to move the times. Traditions somewhat have to be removed, don't they, in these instances?

Colin Graves: Well, the one thing which I say to everybody, whether it's members, Yorkshire members, anybody connected with cricket, the one thing about cricket, it's got a fantastic heritage, it's got a fantastic history, it's got events and occasions that have happened which has gone down. They'll be there forever in a day. But what you've got to do, whether it's cricket or any other sport, you've got to look forward, because you've got to look forward what the next generation wants and what they are looking for, and if you don't give them it, then they'll go somewhere else. From my point of view, I keep saying to everybody, fine, look backwards, enjoy it, but don't dwell on it, because the future is looking forward and none of us know what that's like. But the way society is moving and the younger generation are moving, their attention spans are very short. So from that point of view, that's where the short game 20 over competition, the 100 competition, is favorable to them because that's what they want.

Lord Russell: Exactly right. And I think some of these short ball competitions now are quite fantastic. I was watching the World cup recently and of course, even the USA have a side now, because they played England, didn't they? And England beat them quite convincingly, think in the quarterfinals.

Colin Graves: The big thing about the USA, and again, a lot of people don't appreciate why cricket in the US will develop, is because it's virtually built on indian expats. Who have gone to the states, and a lot of these indian expats have now become wealthy individuals in big businesses in the states who want to build cricket grounds. They're going to be somewhere in the region of, I think, seven or eight new cricket grounds built in the next five years, all 25 30,000 seated stadiums built across the US. And when you get that, then cricket will become a force to be reckoned with. It'll have finance from financial investors, it'll have players who go play over there. The worrying thing from an english point of view is, for the first time ever, we're going to have competition in our time space because it's the first one in the northern hemisphere. All our other competitors play in the southern hemisphere. If us come on board, which they're going to do, they're going to be playing during our cricket season.

Lord Russell: Yes, indeed. And Canada too, as well. They've got a side, haven't they, that play. So, you know, there are. So there's two huge potentials in our time zone, northern hemisphere. And do we dare believe that maybe USA will become world champions of cricket?

Colin Graves: Possible, isn't it? Put it this way, you wouldn't bet against it, because at the end of the day, if the finances are there to build a stadium, give the support, attract the players, pay the salaries, money will talk to that degree. And what we've got to do is make sure our game is strong enough, resilient enough to compete against it. If it's another competitor, we've got to meet that head on.

Lord Russell: Certainly have I. Cricket club are at the heart of it, too. No Yorkshire, no English.

Colin Graves: It won't be for the lack of trying. That's what's happening.

Lord Russell: I can quite believe that, too, Colin. I really can. So what is next in the world of Colin Graves? If you've lived a really productive life, I mean, what else is there that you could get your fingers into your mind?

Colin Graves: I'll be honest, I've got enough going on with my life at the present time.

Lord Russell: Certainly have.

Colin Graves: I've got my family, I'm fortunate. I've got holiday places in Portugal and Barbados, which the last year I haven't been able to go because I've been so tied up with all this. But, you know, at my time in life, and I've said, I'll do this for two or three years to make sure that Yorkshire's set up financially and on the playing side. And in two or three years, when all that's done, I will move on and leave it to the next generation to take it to the next level. So from my point of view I'm enjoying every minute of it. But I can't keep doing this forever. Today everybody's got a time span and my time span will come one day.

Lord Russell: Absolutely. We all can't go on forever. But you've had an amazing life. An amazing life journey in business and in cricket. I mean the cricket's been incredible. Sport and business go hand in hand.

Colin Graves: As I said before, the one thing which I keep pinching myself when I, I look at what's happened to me in my life certainly from 15 onwards to where I am now 60 years further down the road. I've had a great life. I've had some fantastic experiences. I met a tremendous amount of people around the world. I made a lot of friends and those kind of things, you don't plan them, they just happen. But the one thing I've always been able to do is give everything I've done full commitment. I throw myself into it 200% and I enjoy working with people and getting good people around me and having some good experiences and that's what I've been able to do. And I want to continue doing that until somebody says to me, taps me on the show and said time to put your feet up.

Lord Russell: Yeah, absolutely. Yeah. Keep going whilst you can colin. I quite agree with that.

Colin Graves: Yeah.

Lord Russell: But as always we've done the hour just over time. Time goes really quick Colin, doesn't it? When you're enjoying yourself? It really does.

Colin Graves: That's gone really quick to be honest. I've enjoyed every minute of it too.

Lord Russell: Yeah I have too. It's been a fantastic discussion. Great show and and it's great to hear your, your views around your business, your business entrepreneurial ship and of course cricket in general. Wonderful, wonderful wonderful wonderful stories. And as always on the world of Lord Russell podcast talk show, we could talk forever Colin I'm sure, about your.

Colin Graves: Life in business and in I could sit here to be honest for another hour, 2 hours telling various stories of what's happened to me through those last 60 years.

Lord Russell: Well maybe we'll get you back on again. We'll do a Colin Graves episode too. Why not? Because you've got a huge history and it's. And I'm sure, well I know the listeners will love listening to this because it's been a remarkable show. It's one incredible. So yeah, we could invite you back on again. Happy to do that. Not a problem at all.

Colin Graves: Thanks very much indeed. And I've really enjoyed it and I appreciate the chance to do it.

Lord Russell: Oh, great stuff. It's been a huge pleasure, as always. And as always, the pleasure is all mine. And of course the show's audience when this podcast is released on the world of Lord Russell podcast talk show and the Lord Russell Baker YouTube channel. Thank you, Colin. Ladies and gentlemen. Gentlemen, I'll give you Colin Graves. I'm doing a clap into the hands here. Fantastic show, Colin. Absolutely incredible. Do you mind hanging on just for a couple of minutes whilst afterwards and I'll just wrap up and.

Colin Graves: No problem at all.

Lord Russell: Thank you, Colin. You're gentlemen, as always. The next episode on the World of Lord Russell podcast talk show is English Cricket's Barmy army. Yes, another cricket episode here where my special guest will be Chris Millard, who is a, who is a passionate advocate for the sport of cricket and the Barmy army and is managing director of Emprise Group Limited, leading an ever growing portfolio of global brands in sport, tourism and leisure, which include the Barmy Army, Barmy Army, Travel, the R 66, T Academy, and Emprise digital. And of course, I'm looking forward to seeing you all on the inside. So until then, it's au revoir from him and au revoir from me.