Radical Health Rebel
Welcome to the Radical Health Rebel Podcast, where Leigh, a renowned Functional Medicine Practitioner, CHEK Practitioner, CHEK Faculty Instructor, Active Release Techniques® Therapist, Emotion Code Practitioner, author, and podcast host, takes you on a journey to achieve optimal health, wellness, and happiness. With his extensive training and years of clinical experience, Leigh provides a truly holistic approach to health that has proven effective even when other methods have failed.
Join us every week for insightful discussions and expert interviews focusing on chronic pain, gut health, and skin health. Leigh's diverse background and passion for holistic healing brings you valuable knowledge and practical tips from leading experts in the field. Whether you're struggling with persistent health issues or simply looking to enhance your well-being, the Radical Health Rebel Podcast is your go-to resource for achieving a vibrant and healthy life. Tune in and start your journey to radical health today!
Radical Health Rebel
153 - The Hidden Link Between Organ Health and Chronic Pain with Matt Sorensen
In this enlightening episode of the Radical Health Rebel Podcast, I sit down with fellow CHEK Faculty member Matt Sorensen to explore the often-overlooked connection between internal organ health and chronic pain.
We dive deep into how dysfunction within the body's organs can trigger chronic pain through mechanisms such as viscerosomatic and psychosomatic reflexes — pathways where organ stress and emotional health manifest as physical pain. Matt shares his expert insights into how recognizing and addressing organ-related dysfunctions can be a game-changer in resolving stubborn pain issues that don't respond to conventional approaches.
Whether you're a health practitioner, someone living with chronic pain, or simply curious about the deeper connections within the body, this conversation will open your eyes to a whole new dimension of healing.
Tune in to discover how true holistic health must consider the vital role of the internal organs — and how real transformation happens from the inside out.
We discussed:
0:00
Matt's Journey As The Organ Guy
12:00
Understanding Visceral Influence on Pain
25:53
The Colon's Impact on Body Mechanics
42:30
Viscerosomatic and Psychosomatic Reflexes
1:02:00
Becoming Your Own Health Detective
1:25:30
Key Takeaways and Final Thoughts
You can find Matt @:
https://www.healhub.net
https://www.thewizardandthepriestess.com
https://www.truewoo.com
Don't forget to leave a Rating for the podcast!
You can find Leigh @:
Leigh's website - https://www.bodychek.co.uk/
Leigh's books - https://www.bodychek.co.uk/books/
Free Pain Guide - https://bit.ly/ChronicPainValuableTips
Substack - https://substack.com/@radicalhealthrebel
YouTube Channel - https://www.youtube.com/@radicalhealthrebelpodcast
Rumble Channel - https://rumble.com/user/RadicalHealthRebel
Leigh's courses:
StickAbility - https://stickabilitycourse.com/
Mastering Client Transformation (professional course) - https://www.functionaldiagnosticnutrition.com/mastering-client-transformation/
Eliminate Adult Acne Programme - https://eliminateadultacne.com/
85% of pain, statistically, is idiopathic, which means they don't. Idiopathic means that it's unknown origin. Therefore, the story deepens.
Speaker 2:So unless you've had an accident or a fall or something like that, where I guess the mechanism of pain is fairly obvious, then you've got to look deeper shoulder and neck injuries, acne and eczema issues, severe gut health problems, even helping couples get pregnant after several IVF treatments had failed and it really moves me to be able to help people in this way, and that is why I do what I do and why we have this show.
Speaker 2:In this enlightening episode of the Radical Health Report podcast, I sit down with fellow Czech faculty member, matt Sorensen, to explore the often overlooked connection between internal organ health and chronic pain. We dive deep into how dysfunction within the body's organs can trigger chronic pain through mechanisms such as viscerosomatic and psychosomatic reflexes, pathways where organ stress and emotional health manifest as physical pain. Matt shares his expert insights into how recognizing and addressing organ-related dysfunctions can be a game changer in resolving stubborn pain issues that don't respond to conventional approaches. Whether you're a health practitioner, someone living with chronic pain or simply curious about the deeper connections within the body, this conversation will open your eyes to a whole new dimension of healing. Stay tuned to discover how true holistic health must consider the vital role of the internal organs and how real transformation happens from the inside out. Matt Sorensen, welcome to the Radical Health Rebel podcast. Thanks for coming on the show.
Speaker 1:Thanks, Lee. It's going to be fun to hang out it certainly is.
Speaker 2:So, matt, to kick things off, could you share a little bit about your own history or kind of educational and professional background, just so the audience get a feel for who you are and also what led you to becoming interested in our body's internal organs?
Speaker 1:Well, I do realize I've been let's call it labeled as the organ guy, which I'm fine with, but that originally started I couldn't tell you what year it was, but I was in school, very, very unhappy. My soul was slowly dying inside. I made an agreement with my parents to leave school if I got an apprenticeship. I got an apprenticeship greenkeeping. If people don't know what a greenkeeper is, I think in America they call it a groundsman. People don't know what a greenkeeper is. I think in America they call it a groundsman which is essentially, if you watch any sport played on grass on TV, it's the look at the pretty stripes on the field or the court or the ground. That's what a greenkeeper does makes the grass look really pretty. So I worked on golf courses, cricket grounds, tennis courts, bowling greens over close to 10 years and I loved it at the time. However, towards the end of that, my soul again started to die inside and I've always been fascinated with the body and training and nutrition and all that kind of stuff. So, as I was working as a greenkeeper in London, actually I did this nutrition class or this nutrition diploma, and I was between London and France at the time and I was surprised because it was actually all about food. It was about food, it was about the soil and I already had this background in greenkeeping, so I learned all about the soil. I had learned also about all the chemicals, but this course I was doing luckily enough, I guess included the ramifications of all the chemicals. I knew all that stuff so that was good breeze through.
Speaker 1:And then, after completing nutrition, I worked with a client who was a boxer, who was actually from Manchester. I was based in London at the time so I was in charge of his nutritional program. I was working with his skills coach and I remember his skills coach saying just put him on a boxing diet plan. What the fuck is that? What's a boxing plan? What's his height? What's is that? What's a boxing plan Like? How do you not like? What's his height, what's his weight, what's his energetic? Back then it was like calories in, calories out, type thing, and I just remember that just didn't mix with the way I thought and the way I approached things. I said, no, we need to know how he feels when he eats this, how he feels when he eats that. We need to do a comprehensive analysis thing here. He said, no, don't worry about any of that. So that's when I kind of quickly caught onto the politics of nutrition and then from there I went on to kind of breaking the nutrition. I just put that there for that point in time and then came back to Australia a little bit in debt and just got another job as a greenkeeper and were prostituted myself for that.
Speaker 1:I think it's about 18 months where I had to do a PT course in Australia and they did nutrition modules, which was interesting, we'll just say that. And so I did what I needed to do to pass the exam and then I did the PT class, got a, a role as a pt, studying pt, I wanted to. My initial dream was to be the trainer of the stars, the hugh jackman's, the brad pitts. I wanted to train the wolverines, the achilles for troy. I wanted to be that guy.
Speaker 1:And not only was I not that guy, let's just say the rehab stuff found me pretty quick and I remember looking at this lady one day just squatting. I was like oh, that's just not right. There's a myriad of stuff going on here, like I know I'm brand new to the industry but I need to know more. I had a um, a mentor at the time who was a exercise physiologist and he was pretty clued on with stuff. But he we had three waiting, three meetings a week and we went through business stuff, workout stuff, but also sort of problem-solving stuff. And he pulled me aside one time and he said I think you'll find this guy really interesting and he gave me a VHS of scientific core conditioning DHS of scientific core conditioning and by this point he'd given me tapes on sacroiliac abdominal wall, squatting movement, blah, blah, blah. So at the time I thought, oh, this is just another thing.
Speaker 1:So I remember I was living by myself in a one-bedroom apartment here in Cronulla One weekend it was piercing down rain, Cleaned my apartment. I thought, okay, I'll watch this now. And 10 minutes hooked. I just remember thinking, yep, that's me, yep, that's me, yep, that's me. There was no fluff, it was just the good stuff. It's me. Yep, that's me, there was no fluff, it was just the good stuff. And watched all that, applied it to myself. Funnily enough, it worked. Then applied it to my clients who I was PTing with at the time. It worked. But not only that, the techniques I was using. The other trainers at the gym I was working at were coming up to me like why are you doing a swiss ball, like a sit-up over a swiss ball?
Speaker 1:so I would channel my inner pole check and do the anatomy and the connection and and all that and I was, oh okay. So then they started to consult me about their clients. Okay, there's something here. So I did the other prereqs and then went on to do back then which is called Exercise Coach, now IMS1. And then kind of went through the levels from there.
Speaker 1:I didn't really get to the organ thing. Couldn't tell you what year it was. I think it was 2011, 2012. I could be lying when I came across this concept of visceral manipulation and at first I was like what the hell is that? What you can do stuff to organs. That's a bit over there. And so I looked into it and by this point I'd done my advanced deployment remedial massage. So I was eligible to do it here in Australia and when I did that it was like a mind-blowing thing and I didn't realize it was a thing really like I did the class learned about the liver, the colon, small intestine and different parts of the colon and how to release it and how to work with it, blah, blah, blah. But it wasn't until the following weekend where I was, I had a scheduled PT session at 7am and this lady I used to see every Saturday at 7pm 7am sorry.
Speaker 1:She would bring her dog, which was a 16 year old border collie. So you can imagine the state of the border collie she worked. She lived k, no, not even that. Let's say half a k from the gym I was working at. She would walk her dog. The dog would walk about 50 meters and need a five minute rest. So she would leave an hour before the scheduled session and through the gym window I could see her walking up the street to the gym and you could sort of time where the dog was and, yep, she'll be x amount late or whatever it was.
Speaker 1:And so, anyway, this particular morning the dog made its way up the stairs. I think it was riddled with arthritis and had all kinds of things. I mean, it was not a young pup. So she went into the locker and got ready and did whatever girls do in the lockers, and so I was just sort of there patting the dog, put my arm around the dog and not, okay, there's a bit of tension there. That's probably where the I didn't know, I don't know. Dog anatomy liver's more on the right, stomach's more on the left, diaphragms on top. So I can't be that different. So just sort of felt around, did everything that we were taught in the visceral class. Oh, there's a lot of tension around liver, so I just sort of lifted the liver up and the dog I swear looked at me with those eyes and just said don't stop I just kept going.
Speaker 1:All right, follow it, bit around the stomach, release the diaphragm, did some just other bits and pieces, and then the dog went to sleep and then then she came out and did our session. I thought nothing of it. Then. Probably 20, 30 minutes later, the dog started to run around the gym, which has never done that before. And I'm like, oh cool, yep, whatever, it's a border collie, that's what they do. And she was really shocked that the dog was doing that. And then so, finished the session, she went home.
Speaker 1:I got a call from her at 4 pm that day. It's like what did you do to my dog? I'm like, oh fuck, I've killed the dog. She's like, the dog's been running around all day like a puppy. It's got so much energy, what have you done to it? I said, oh, I released stomach, I think, and liver and I don't know, to be honest. But that's what I did. And like the eyes are bright and this and that, and just like a brand new dog. It's like, okay, so my head grew, you know, like that. And so then the next week everyone got that treatment right and then everyone not everyone was running around the gym and eating dumbbells like a puppy. But they were reporting of increased energy and more breath and just brighter vision and all that kind of stuff. So that's when I sort of knew that, okay, there's something, there's something here.
Speaker 2:And that's when I really committed to the whole visceral thing so can you just talk a little bit about, like, the trainings. I'm guessing you didn't just do the one course in that. I'm guessing there's different, different levels, right is that that'd be correct?
Speaker 1:yeah, so in the in the borough system. So jean-pierre borough really modernized um visceral manipulation. He said he didn't invent it. He said a medicine man in some mountain invented it. But he, he was the one who's put the anatomy together and made it more scientific and more tangible for practitioners to use. So in the barial model there's visceral one to six, there's also the uh, the neural, meningeal, one to four, then there's the manual articulation one and two, the visceral vascular, and then there's the brain one to three. That's just for the brow kind of stuff. So I've done those.
Speaker 2:So this is just for my own curiosity that sounds like there's a lot of courses to do. This is just for my own curiosity. That sounds like there's a lot of courses to do.
Speaker 1:How long do they tend to last each kind of module? Each class ranges between three and four days each. But what they've introduced now is that you have to practice and they've done this with the cranial sacral stuff, with up ledger as well. You have to kind of record 20 uh, 75 to 100 um, not case histories but treatments that you've done before you go to the next level, and so I started that. I think it was 2013. I did VM1, visceral Manipulation 1, I think, and I'm about to do the second brain class this year. Yeah, so there's a fair bit in it. But doing that and studying the Czech curriculum as well, it's a really good combination.
Speaker 2:Yeah.
Speaker 1:There's a lot of anatomy. Yeah, I can imagine.
Speaker 2:Yeah, yeah, and it's really interesting. You know that there are so many. Obviously we both train with the Czech system but there's so many other modalities that can sit really nicely with the check system and I, you know, I can imagine, you know, visceral manipulation, um would sit really nicely with that. I mean, I've, I've experienced, I've been treated by someone who's trained in the Burrell method. Um, she used to work at Czech Europe here in the UK. Um, I think I had a couple of couple of treatments from her um, but she pretty much said, yeah, your organs are fine kind of thing there was. There wasn't much really going on. So I, yeah, I wasn't running around like a puppy after those after those two sessions, but boring, yeah, but uh, I did woof a few times afterwards.
Speaker 1:Maybe there's something in that as long as you, as long as you piss on the post after that yeah, yeah, yeah, and for the next next week.
Speaker 2:Every time I walk past the lamppost I had to smell it. Yeah, so nice, maybe there was something in that treatment, yeah, but yeah, you know, I've experienced it and it's. It's quite interesting to to have that treatment done on you, um, but but yeah, like I was saying, it's amazing how many other systems out there that can really complement what we do as check practitioners and I can, I can see you know quite clearly how that that would be of benefit as well. Just just moving on a little bit. So I guess the key thing that I want to discuss today is you know, can the internal organs, or viscera as they're known, can they create or contribute towards chronic pain in the body and, if so, how does that happen?
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Speaker 1:Well, not only can they, they probably do so more often than anything else. So, as I'm sure you'd obviously know, but for the listeners, 85% of pain, statistically is idiopathic. Which means that idiopathic means that it's unknown origin. Therefore the story deepens. An accident or a fall or something like that, where I guess the mechanism of pain is fairly obvious, then you've got to look deeper and you've got to look at the mechanism and the story of the pain. So the pain, ultimately, before it gets to the organ, you could say, it actually starts with a thought. Before it gets to the organ, you could say, it actually starts with a thought. Now, that thought may have been inherited, it may have been acquired, it might have been innate. But essentially that thought, if it's not congruent with who you are as a human being, then it creates the friction within the self. That friction within the self can start mentally, it can start in the unconscious. When it goes to the unconscious, it filters through to the subconscious, which is the wisdom of the cells.
Speaker 1:Now there's three organs that process absolutely everything From everything you think, say, say or do. That is the brain, in no particular order the brain, the liver and skin. They absorb everything. The brain, because it's the major processing plant of the body. The skin because, and um, essentially and essentially, when we're developing throughout being a fetus, the skin tissue grew out of the brain tissue. So our skin is really an external brain. And then the liver. The liver is home of what they call the imago. Now, the imago is Latin for image, most commonly correlated to the imago day, which means image of deity, which is the image of god or gods or whatever your belief system about where we, where we come from, you know your belief of the origin of yourself. Now, the thing with that is the origin of your self is perceived by you. Now that imago is perceived by you, we hold the home of the self in the liver. That's why they call it the liver, it's because live right. So they're the three organs that process absolutely everything. Now, think of those three, let's say, powerhouses. Now, I'm not saying that the liver is more important than the stomach, for example. It's a combination of all of these organs.
Speaker 1:So you've got this friction of a thought. First and foremost, that friction of a thought has to be processed. Now that's inevitably going to go skin, liver and, depending on the psychological theme of the thought, it will go to a corresponding organ. So we actually think with our organs before our brain gets to process it. So what that means is think of each organ as an organ of reception. Just like a radio attracts radio waves, tv attracts TV waves, your phone attracts microwaves, your liver attracts liver waves, your stomach attracts stomach waves. Small intestine attracts small intestine waves, but replace the words waves with consciousness. So the liver attracts liver consciousness, the stomach attracts stomach consciousness.
Speaker 1:Now, if that thought is to do with anxiety, for example, or creates anxiety within your system, your stomach is a beacon for that signal. If it's something to do with self-esteem, anger, pessimism, you feel like you're a prisoner to your own routine. You're confused about what you think God is or isn't. Liver, you're really sensitive to criticism. Small intestine OCD is kind of running your life. Colon, all these themes, they get cosmically attracted to certain organs. So then that organ will. All these themes, right, they get cosmically attracted to certain organs, so then that organ will. We will hold that in the fascia surrounding the organ.
Speaker 1:Now, from there, consider each organ has its own metabolic function, mechanical function, immune function and mental-emotional function. So, depending where your weak link is, that's how it's going to show up as a potential compensation. Let's just take the liver, for example. Now the liver has eight parts to it, has eight parts to it Two parts to the mechanics, two parts to the metabolism of the liver, two parts to the psychological, emotional themes and then two parts to the immune. Now, depending where your weak link is, in one person it's sharp as an immune symptom thing, in someone else it could be a mechanical thing.
Speaker 1:So if you look at the size of the liver, if you follow your left clavicular line straight down to the middle of your bottom rib cage, that's the end point on the left for the liver. If you go all the way to the right, that's also the liver. But on the left you've got the left triangular ligament, articulates the liver with the stomach. So by default you might also get stomach stuff. Now that can create right or left shoulder problems, depending if it's affecting the stomach more or the liver more. So the tension of those can get picked up by the phrenic nerve which communicates to both capsules.
Speaker 1:But it depends on what organ is affected the most.
Speaker 1:So depending on what organ picks up the most and what organ's already under the most stress, whatever organ is under the most stress it's the most active.
Speaker 1:So the brain's going to dump excess load to that particular organ in an attempt to, I guess, dissipate excess energy from the central nervous system. And when the organs overrun with its own metabolic stuff, mechanical stuff, et cetera, et cetera, it becomes too much. So then it's got to dissipate it more further in the periphery to the musculoskeletal system. That's when muscles ache, that's when they spasm, that's when joints start to hurt, that's when muscles switch off, etc. So ultimately it's a survival mechanism. As soon as we're in a stressful mode or in some kind of pain, the body has its own hierarchy of preferential systems, that it wants certain systems to survive or prevail over other systems. So your body will happily lose a leg to keep a liver or to keep a colon. Out of the, I think, 79 organs we have only, I think, about seven or eight are actually vital and it will do anything it needs to to protect them. So in order to protect them, it's going to cause everything else to ache and firstly, that should be like a sign to say, hey, dickhead, stop eating.
Speaker 1:Or drinking that because we're hurting you. I'm going to cause your right shoulder to ache, and even you want to cut it off until you get that. But then most people will take a pill to sort that problem, to numb the pain, but they're still doing what they're doing. The liver gets more overburdened, in this example, and eventually they get really bad. So that's one example.
Speaker 2:Yeah, example. Yeah, I mean it's really interesting as you're talking there and you know, basically saying the body has a priority system and when, when it's under stress, it starts dumping its energy in certain places to prioritize certain organs or systems. The thing that I thought of when he was saying that was the check totem pole. Right, it's. It's exactly the same thing, right? So again, it's another example how you know visceral manipulation and the whole barrel system just fits in so nicely with the check system.
Speaker 2:So just to kind of review as well what you were saying, you know you can have a your pain in an organ and you know the examples you gave the. The liver and the stomach can actually cause pain, for instance, in a shot in the shoulder right and it's. And it's quite interesting, I think, for people to understand that, because we naturally think, okay, if there's pain somewhere in the body, there must be damage to tissue in that area of the body. But really what you're saying is actually you can have pain in your body, but what you really need to do is investigate why you're in pain and there's a possibility that it might not be, in this example, the shoulder, that there's actually an issue with the shoulder at all, but what it is is that the body is dumping energy or you could call it stress as well, I guess into that area to make you aware that there's something that you need to address. Would that be correct?
Speaker 1:100, I think any. So if you're you're assessing, let's say, one of the shoulder joints, if you're assessing the liver, if you're assessing, let's say, one of the shoulder joints, if you're assessing the liver, if you're assessing a hip, sacroiliac, whatever it is and I tell students this all the time you're not assessing the shoulder, the liver, the hip, whatever. You're assessing the body at the hip, you're assessing the body at the shoulder or the liver, whatever. It's an integrated system and with the totem pole, in my experience, the viscera, the emotion and the gut all need to be floating. It's one symbol, just from my own personal experience. So any one of those can create, like you think of what's up the top, well, the second part of the top, the breathing. It can create rapid breathing and the diaphragm can get stuck because of the liver. The diaphragm can get stuck because of the lung, the heart, stomach, they all directly articulate with the actual diaphragm can get stuck because of the lung, the heart, stomach. They all directly articulate with the actual diaphragm.
Speaker 1:And I think when, let's say, we're talking about shoulder pain or particularly chronic shoulder pain, so chronic shoulder pain, I don't know what the definition is in the UK and it's different throughout the world. In Australia it's 60 days or more with the same pain. That's determined as chronic. That's if someone comes to me with shoulder pain and they're oh, my shoulder's been sore for two years. Oh no, it's not the shoulder. You know, you've likely seen a physio and they've given you some kind of rotator cuff exercise of some degree or whatever. Um, I know it's not that and a really simple test you can do. Just to really amplify. The example is if you were to grab your shirt in the middle of your right rib cage, just right at the bottom, and then screw your t-shirt so the t-shirt just becomes tighter and tighter and tighter on the right side, and then try and lift your arm, you can feel the pull of your shirt on your shoulder.
Speaker 1:Think of that as like intrinsic fascia. Now think days, months, days, weeks, months, years later, and you're keeping doing what you're doing, you can see how that shoulder is going to wear itself out. Then you can see when you go to a physio or your chiro or your osteo. They're going to unwind the shoulder, cool, but then it's coming from further down. So you have to unwind the entire chain. And it's not necessarily a fascial problem either. Sure, the fascia's pulling on it, but then the fascia's being told what to do by other systems. So you need to investigate as far down as you possibly can, so that's where the visceral stuff can come in, but also just knowing the mechanics of the entire body. So for a right shoulder, the left hip to me, causing a right shoulder issue, even like a left big toe can be doing that. That's why it's really important to see the body as a whole and not to see the shoulder as a shoulder. There's no such thing as a shoulder issue. It's a body issue at the shoulder. Yeah.
Speaker 2:Yeah, a shoulder issue, it's a, it's a body issue at the shoulder. Yeah, yeah, do you see um, or? I guess the question is, what do you if? If you do, are there more common issues that you tend to see in terms of chronic pain with specific viscera, like you've mentioned, the liver and the stomach, but are there others that you see that are quite common um?
Speaker 1:I think the word common has become more and more broad over the last decade.
Speaker 1:If I was to I'm not going to say conditions, because the conditions are varied I could say the most common, I guess, the most common reasons someone would complain, in no order I'm sure there is an order, I can't think of it right now that say fatigue, some sort of neck ache, slash, headache, slash, lower back pain, knee pick, a joint, uh, digestive thing, and another one. Another one would be probably around fertility. So fatigue. I always find tension around both kidneys and the liver. They're both filtering organs. They're both filtering organs when they become tired sorry, when they become, let's say, tired, they become really heavy. When they become heavy they become really dense, so they become heavy in the body. So that creates more requirement for metabolic use mechanically. So you can see how over time that would create more and more fatigue.
Speaker 1:I can't remember what I said for the second one, some kind of pain. So it's actually, if you study viscerosomatic reflexes, psychosomatic reflexes, tcm, it show even the chakra systems in hindu philosophy. It shows that the organs and the glands regulate flow to the joints and the muscles. So they tell them in a way what to do the hard frame of the body, the muscles. So they tell them in a way what to do. The hard frame of the body, the muscles and the skeleton are designed to protect the viscera. Viscera just meaning viscous, which means in a fluid, serious compressender cylinder. So if you think about it, we can live without some joints and some muscles, but we can't live without certain organs, so they become a priority in our survival then. So you can see how an organ would hog blood, water etc to protect a joint.
Speaker 1:Yeah, then we go to digestion. Now digestion's a big one because as we come from a single-celled organism, be it from the evolutionary model or just our mother's womb, we had a digestive system before we had any other system, be it from the evolutionary model or just our mother's womb, we had a digestive system before we had any other system. So that is a priority, regardless of what system or kind of belief model that you follow. So that's kind of a big deal. The whole digestive eliminative system and the pathways from the enteric nervous system, which is the digestive eliminative system, towards the periphery is such an open pathway. It's like a double-lane highway going from the inside out relative to the outside in. To put that into comparison from the inside out is like a double-lane highway From the outside in it. Put that into comparison from the inside out is like a double lane highway. From the outside in it's like a goat trail. And it's set up that way because if you're having a heart attack you don't feel it in your heart, you feel it in the chest, the jaw, the arm. But then what if you were to fall on your arm? Your brain knows it's not having a heart attack, you just fall on your arm. So it's a completely different response.
Speaker 1:Then the other one I think was fertility. So fertility is someone's measure, and it's not only physical but it's also kind of psychological, of how manly or womanly someone is. So it's kind of linked to someone's self-identity, slash, self-esteem, because the guy always wants to think, yeah, I'm fertile, af. And then the girl wants to think, yeah, I could have a trillion babies, but I'm, you know. So when that isn't possible or it's not like a, if it's not happening, at the time, it really plays with them psychologically, which is quite interesting. And because men want to sow their seed which is quite interesting, because men want to sow their seed Women want to invite that in for the right seed, for lack of a better word. So when she can't do that or when he can't do that, it plays, it plays, the game plays the trick.
Speaker 1:Now, with men, it's usually congestion. With congestion, it's usually from the men who have been sitting down for a long time. So think of your classic office worker who has pressure from beneath with the seat. Then you've got gravity from above with the seat, then you've got gravity from above. Well, the, the organs of you know, bladder, prostate, rectum, they all need to be perfectly aligned, from pubic bone to sacrum. And if they can't move in their motility, then if something doesn't move in nature, what do you get? A fungal infection.
Speaker 1:A fungal infection is surely going to shut that shit down straight up. Now that could show up as prostate cancer. It could also show up as what's it called an enlarged prostate. It could also show up as a bladder infection or constipation. If it goes backwards it could all show up as sacroiliac stuff or a pubic synthesis issue or maybe even a groin thing, because all these organs, that's where they go.
Speaker 1:For a woman it's usually arterial, so there's some kind of blood supply from either the, the one of the iliac arteries, or the iliac veins coming off the. If the iliac arteries come off the aorta, in my experience is usually from from the inferior mesenteric artery, which has more of a digestive role. But then ladies who have an inflammatory diet or eating something that they're not really congruent with for their own metabolic type or their unique biochemical individuality creates inflammation. Therefore the blood vessels have to dilate. The veins also have to dilate.
Speaker 1:Because the veins aren't getting enough blood flow, they shrink. So you get a build-up of that pulse in the abdomen or the lower abdominal, the pelvic region. That blood's got to go somewhere. If it doesn't go somewhere, then if the blood can't have anywhere to go, the arteries have to expand. Therefore the muscles have to become more permeable and that's where a lot of bloating becomes a thing, and if it's not really addressed, I guess in time you can cut off circulation to the lower limbs, so then it'll come a lower limb issue or a knee issue or a I mean pick your symptom Right. So that's some examples.
Speaker 2:Yeah, one organ I guess that I think I see lots of people having problems with is the colon. Is there any, I guess, link to specific conditions with the colon? And also, is there anything that you've seen in your experience that might cause an issue with the colon as well? So it's a bit of a double-edged question there. Did you know that 92% of people fail to follow through on their New Year's resolutions? That's right. Year after year, most of us start strong and then lose momentum by February Sound familiar, but what if this year could be different?
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Speaker 1:Yeah, I remember I think it was hypocrite saying that 100 of all diseases start in. I would say colon. But you would say colon. I've lived where you, I've lived in your country, so I respect the accent um yeah, I mean the large intestine or the colon, the colon itself.
Speaker 1:There's nine parts to it, but the large intestine is one of the organs we can't live without and with. So just to give you, or the listeners, a an anatomical journey, if you will, if you start on the right side, the right hip, if you find the right ASIS or the right kind of furthest part of the bone that sticks out, that's your cecum, that's the first part of the colon and that's where excess fecal material first enters. From the small intestine. Coming up, you have the ascending colon going up to the rib, and the ascending colon has a ligament attaching to it to the liver, called the hepato clonical ligament, which attaches to the liver. Then you have the transverse colon, which kind of is like an M shape but it moves from anterior to posterior, creating the splenicocollicle ligament on the far left which has attachments and articulations. With the spleen on the left Coming down, you've got the descending colon which turns into the sigmoid in the left ASIS, the left part of the hip. Then the sigmoid has kind of an S bend, then turning into the rectum which is where we expel.
Speaker 1:So the nine parts of the colon can create a myriad of issues can create a myriad of issues. On the right side of the cecum actually there's three key arteries that come off the mesenteric artery, that kind of plexus in the marginal artery that regulate blood flow to the sacroiliac region. So someone who's constipated can get, if they get pulsing in that right hip area is often due to constipation, because they don't have adequate flow from the small intestine to the large intestine and then the large intestine isn't parastolsing if that's a word its way up through the colonic region. So the cecum itself can create sacrileg issues, the sensation of a tight hip flexor, right, so as if you think about, if you bring your leg back behind you, your cecum and ascending colon should slide above the psoas. But then if your cecum isn't functioning via constipation, mar-relationship stress just as an example then that can create the illusional sensation of a tight hip flexor and then stretching your hip flexor in that situation will do.
Speaker 1:Let's say nothing because it's not a hip flexor issue Going up to the ascending colon. People with hiked hips will often have tension in the ascending colon because it's the fascia it's the Toltz fascia creating that rotation and hike, and also that merges with the renal fascia which connects up into the back part of the rib, which can create that illusion of a hip hike. And then if that fascia gets kind of locked not locked down, but if it gets pulled down if you were to put your fingers on your right hip and the right lower rib and then close that angle, you can see how that would create a scoliosis or tension in the right shoulder and then the right. If you're going following the journey across the transverse mesocolon, then if you were. So the mesocolon or the transverse colon goes as far down inferior or down as the belly button or the umbilicus. And if you were to pull everything down from your umbilicus and hug that, you can see the.
Speaker 1:The head comes forward, the neck gets tight, the diaphragm gets kind of shut off and it's all linked in with the same sort of fascia, so similar to the right side. You can also say the same sort of fascia, so similar to the right side. You can also say the same for the left and the left-sided symptoms, and what the cecum does to the right, the sigmoid can also do to the left, but also, interestingly enough, the rectum, the rectum's relationship with the sacrum. The rectum isn't like if the sacrum is like that and the rectum, it should sit straight, but if it is off to the side, then the sacrum will attempt to line it up. And if you think about that from a survival perspective, if you don't shit, you die.
Speaker 1:I'm not sure if we're allowed to swear on this. Yeah, yeah, it's fine If you want to expel. We are no longer here, so the entire pelvis will shift in an attempt to line those organs up.
Speaker 1:And it doesn't matter what the alignment of the skeleton is. As long as those organs line up so you can actually get stuff out, then that's the priority in any case. So then it comes back to the totem pole which you were talking about, and that's where certain systems are sacrificed for others. But it can also be traced back to a particular organ, but not only the fascial component of the organs. I know fascia is a huge thing at the moment, but it's also what's influencing the fascia. What does the fascia react to? Does it react to the muscle contraction? Does it act according to the vasculature? Does it act towards the visceral component? Well, what they've shown is it's more reactive to the mental-emotional correlation, because it's instant, yeah, and then just over time it's only a micro, let's call it contraction, but then over time you can see how it accumulates, builds up, builds up, builds up. But then by the time you consciously recognize it, it could be weeks, it could be months, it could be years.
Speaker 2:Yeah, yeah, I mean, it's interesting. You know, as you were describing all that, you know, I was kind of thinking to myself you know, there's a lot of people out there with chronic pain, right, there's a lot of people out there with chronic pain, right, there's a lot of people. That's kind of why we do what we do and it does make you think about someone. They go to see someone for help and all they're focused on is the bones and the muscles, the joints and the ligaments, and they're not thinking about the viscera. They're not thinking about. They might be thinking about the fascia, but not necessarily. You know, as you alluded to the mental emotional aspects on it. You know the mental emotional aspects on the viscera as well and you know, I think if someone's listening to this and thinking God, you know, I've been in pain for a long time and I've been to see this therapist and this practitioner and this therapist, this practitioner and, yeah, they've done treatment on me and actually it felt like some level of improvement initially, but then the pain just comes back and it might be that they go to see a certain therapist many, many, many, many, many times and they might get some short-term relief, but ultimately it doesn't go away, and you know what you're saying here and I'm you know.
Speaker 2:What I'm hoping people are understanding is how complex the human body is, right, and and how it's important to get help from someone that understands all these complexities. And I know you know this, matt. But whilst the human body is very complex, quite often the solutions are quite simple, and what it often requires is finding someone that can understand the complexity but explain it to you in a way that is simple, so that you can follow it, or indeed, if someone needs visceral manipulation. Again, clearly you've gone through a lot of training, but I'm sure the actual techniques are relatively simple.
Speaker 1:Yes, like anything, if you can talk to someone who and I think even I mean this is what the beauty about Paul's work or the Czech system is is that it's taking something that's relatively so complex, like, as you said, the human, human body, and you could study just anatomy for 40 years and just sort of scratch the surface, and then that's just anatomy. What about physiology? What about the hormones? What about the, the system? What about the circulatory system? What about this? And there's, you know, I think you and I have signed up for the next 40 lifetimes to study it.
Speaker 1:And if you can find someone who can kind of link your pain to something that resonates to you and it's not always necessarily a physical thing, it might be oh, do you sit this way a lot? Do you cross your legs this way a lot? Do you shovel this way a lot? Do you bend down and pick up whatever this way do you? What's your physical pattern? That you do often throughout the day, but the good, the. You can even pick this up in an haq if you're a czech practitioner. That, if you're, if you know the psycho-emotional correlates to certain parts of the body, not only just the organs, but the shoulders or the neck or the hips or whatever it is, just ask those questions. So if someone comes in to me and I find tension around their liver, I'm going to ask liver questions and I will obviously change the language how I, how would I say this according to the person. So whoever I'm in front of, I'm going to choose my words differently to different people and I don't always get it right. That's my lesson to learn. But it's essentially okay.
Speaker 1:How's your self-esteem about a certain person, place or thing? Or what kind of language do you use for yourself? Like, how do you talk to yourself? Is that a thing for you? Or how do you feel in this situation? Or do you feel stuck in your job and you're just like there's no way out? So they're all liver questions. If I get tension around the stomach, do you get anxious a lot? How do you feel in social settings, type thing? I'll just ask those questions and then you kind of get the breadcrumb trail towards the driver of the thing. If it's not even a visceral thing, it might even be just a pure joint thing.
Speaker 1:So a lot of people don't realize that the joints will actually communicate to the brain via the type 4 mechanoreceptors sometimes the type 1, which is a psychosomatic response, in a way where someone has a lot of tension in their shoulders or their body posture, they try and hide in their shoulders. They're trying to hide from the world. They're really shy, so they're trying to, like a turtle, hide themselves. And so if they've got a lot of tension in there, are you shy? Are you not scared of the world? But in a social setting, what's the thing here? So you can ask educated questions. And when you ask those questions, when you understand how everything works in waves with each other, then you'll find that the patient or the client will. They might not be aware of it, but they'll.
Speaker 1:Yeah, I do do that, or yeah, I do hold a lot of tension when I do that, or when this is when my wife or husband brings this certain situation up, yeah, I do close down. And that's the, that's the subconscious, slash, unconscious theme. And how to differentiate that is, you think of your soft tissues, the muscles, the fascia, the organs they hold and project the emotional anatomy of the person. It's the skeleton, your posture, how you hold yourself in gravity and how you occupy your space represents the unconscious, underlying psychological theme of that person. And so I tell the students, when a person presents, you're not just looking at a body, you're looking at a mind-body-spirit complex, in the words of Ra, that you're reading their entire evolution. And it might not only just be this life, it could be several lives if you want to go that deep but essentially they're presenting with you with their story.
Speaker 1:It's not our job or our position to judge that story. It's our job, our position, to say, okay, this is what I'm reading. So what needs to be heard? What can we just sort of put over there for now? And what needs to be right now? What? What do we need to look at? Yeah, just to get you down the stairs again. Yeah, or and a lot of people will like, a lot of patients won't believe the practitioner until they've earned that trust by either saying something that they really resonate with or they might you might know a really good technique for lower back pain, shoulder, neck, headache, whatever it is. But until you've displayed that and you've really shown that, yeah, I know my shit and this is the story I'm reading. This is how we need to finish the story, or what needs to be written next, but doing it without? Oh, you do that. Okay that one took me a long time to disconnect from.
Speaker 2:Yeah, yeah, I just want to go back a little bit because there's something again I've got a little bit of a personal interest in, and I mentioned the colon. From your perspective, what's your view on people's colon or at least parts of their colon, if not the whole thing, being removed from the body? If you've been dealing with chronic pain and feeling frustrated by limited progress, listen to Noriko's story. Limited progress listen to Noriko's story. Noriko, a dedicated tennis player, came to see me after struggling with persistent lower back pain that worsened every time she played tennis. If she played for more than three hours, her knee would start hurting and she couldn't continue.
Speaker 2:We started slowly focusing on active release techniques and exercises from my book, the Tennis Biomechanics Manual. We worked together, step by step, to improve not just her physical training but the diet too. By following simple, actionable steps, incorporating both the right exercise and nutrition, noriko's health and tennis performance transformed. She now plays without back pain and enjoys the game more than ever. Noriko's story is proof that with the right guidance, you can make lasting changes, whether it's improving performance in your sport or eliminating pain. If you're ready to improve your health, performance and quality of life, reach out today. Together, we can create a personalized plan that works for you. If your injuries are holding you back, visit wwwbodycheckcouk to schedule your consultation and get back to performing at your best.
Speaker 1:Dangerous. Colon's one of those organs that requires parasitic wave of the body, which also interconnects with the cranial sacral rhythm of the body, which also interconnects with the cranial sacral rhythm of the body. By removing an organ physically, what people don't realize is you can remove the physical organ but you've still got the motility of the organ. Move the physical organ, but you've still got the motility of the organ. The motility is the energetic imprint of that organ. So if you're looking right to left, the colon does that. Now the brain energetically thinks the colon's still there, so it's still going to do stuff.
Speaker 1:So if people get their colon removed, often they need a bag to do that because the the waste has to go somewhere.
Speaker 1:But yet the colon is a specialized organ because not only does it just remove waste but it has specialized muscles called haucasians which actually contract, relax, which creates the parasitic wave throughout the entire colonic wall. But also you have specific enzymes and kind of like little I can't remember the anatomical name right now but they're kind of like little water jets, that sort of push fecal material along. But you can only do that if you're adequately hydrated, of course. But once that, if you take that entire mechanism out, you think of what goes into the colon. I'm starting to say a lot of you now. It's all the food matter that your body doesn't need, all the materials that you've taken in or on your body arguably even your thoughts, if you want to go that deep but all the things that your body does no longer want, all the dead bacteria, all the dead funguses, whatever else in your system that your body does not want anymore, it dumps into the colon for it to be evacuated out.
Speaker 2:the colon for it to be evacuated out.
Speaker 1:So the people that get it removed? There's a deeper question is why is it removed, slash? Why is it not working? Slash, wtf Then? Well, why does the surgeon want to get rid of it? Like, why is there a certain point of no return? But then it's a? Okay. We have to think of an entire new waste management system here, because the body is perfect the way it is. It's designed to do what it needs to do. First, why is it not doing what it needs to do? Why is it not doing what it needs to do? And if it is taken out, then? So if someone came to me with it gone, okay what can we?
Speaker 1:do. What's the cards we've got to play with? If these are the cards, then these are the cards. We have to optimize every other system to make this as smooth as possible. So is it a you know, do or die death sentence? Probably not, but suboptimal. But that's like kind of yeah, the body will compensate. Yeah, for sure.
Speaker 2:Yeah, yeah, and I mean obviously there's the aspects of. You know the microbiome plays quite a big role in the colon. You know whether it's the immune system producing hormones, vitamins etc. Whatever else. Um, yeah, I just want to get your view on that. It's quite interesting. A couple of things that you've mentioned already is, uh, viscerosomatic reflexes and psychosomatic reflexes. Can you just go into a bit more detail so the audience understand what those terms mean?
Speaker 1:So by definition of viscerosomatic reflex, viscerosomatic means organ, body. So a classic example would be tension in the liver picked up by the phrenic nerve, which communicates to the right capsule in the right shoulder, therefore creating a viscerosomatic reaction. Each organ has its own referral pattern. So, just really quickly, the colon can often refer to the hips. The small intestine, the lower back, the duodenum can lock up the thoracolumbar junction, as can the pancreas, so any organ crossing the spine actually has the capacity to lock up those spinal segments. The liver will often present with right-sided symptoms because it's predominantly on the right. However, the liver goes way beyond the right shoulder. It can create right sciatic pain, right hip pain, right lower back, right neck, especially C345, cranial base, right temporal headaches, right jaw stomach, often left shoulder, left first rib, left sacroiliac as well. So I'm just going up in my head. Diaphragm can cause a myriad of stuff. I know it's not an organ per se, but you could put it in the category just because it's vital for survival. On the top of the diaphragm you've got the heart sitting on top of the diaphragm. We all know what the heart can do, or like a heart attack sort of symptomology can look like We've got the lungs. The lungs can lock up the rib cage, the lungs and the pleura. The think of muscles like pec minor which are chronically tight in most people often react to tension within the lung and the pleura. So if the fissures of the lung can't, if they can't rotate or move along each other, then the ribs get caught up. The intermost intercostals they will tend to lock up, which will lock up the ribs. Therefore the pec minor will tighten in an attempt to sort of hold it together. But I've never met anyone with tight pec minor that didn't have a breathing dysfunction as well. You've got the esophagus which goes from kind of if you start at C6 and going posterior, anterior, sort of six rib on the left. That's where the esophagus goes into the stomach and turns into the stomach. Any spasm in the esophagus can create any tension along the thoracic spine. More on the left Thyroid can lock up anything in the neck, parathyroid as well, the heart and the lung also attached to the neck. So if there's an asymmetrical neck thing, look at the same side to the lung. That could also be an eye thing, which are also organs. And if you're sensitive enough and you breathe in, you can feel your eyes being pulled in to the eye socket and when you breathe out they come back out. That's the motility of the optic nerve which feeds the visual field of the eyes and that's also regulated by C2-3 as well. That's just some examples of viscerosomatic reflexes.
Speaker 1:The psychosomatics would be the skeleton being represented by the psyche. So, starting at the foot, someone with a chronic foot ankle issue might have grounding issues, someone with knee stuff, and you can see it. I actually saw it with one of my students I won't say who in the recent class I taught stood with really flexed knees and I had to pull him aside and just said how's your confidence in this? And he came across as really yeah, I know this kind of all want to say gangster, but no, can't fool us instructors. As you'd know, lee and I kind of got to that point. He's like yeah, fuck, I don't know. So his posture showed his cards. But someone with flexed knees when they're standing shows really not low confidence. But think of the weight of the world compounding down so that flexes the knees. Our hips represent stability. The knees, our hips represent stability and in any civilization or medieval town, the sacred monuments which are sacred, which is named after the word sacrum. We're in the center of the town, so therefore whatever we hold sacred is in the middle of our body, which, from a center of gravity viewpoint, is usually S2. With the spine. The spine is an antenna, so this is where the chakras really come into it and, depending on the psychological theme that's under stress, you will hold the energy of that idea in that particular segment or segments that also affect everything, every nerve, gland, organ, muscle, joint, on that particular nerve channel with that kind of psychological theme, you could say, coming up into the rib cage.
Speaker 1:The rib cage protects, the cage protects. And I remember doing a burial class how to kind of manipulate the heart, the lungs, anything within the thorax, the mediastinum, etc. And I remember the instructor saying that the heart, similar to the prostate, the prostate doesn't create its own problems. The heart usually doesn't create its own problems. If you've've got a heart thing, be it tachycardia or I can't think of the other one it's opposite, bradycardia. Yes, thank you. So the heart, it's trying to rattle its cage, like the bird behind me, it's trying to do something. It's trying to rattle the cage. It's trying to do something. It's trying to rattle the cage. Therefore we get the sensation of rib cage stuff. But then as soon as you free up tissue around the heart you just find everything opens up. So the rib cage protects everything within the rib cage and if you think of all the contents of the ribcage, they're vital organs Interesting.
Speaker 1:Then you go up into the neck. Your neck is your kind of watchtower. Before that you get into the shoulders, the shoulders hold the weight of your world. So a lot of the people with the weight of the world on their shoulders have shoulder issues. Then going into the neck the neck is the watchtower. So it sees it's got to look out for everything going on, any threat, any perceived danger going on. But anyone with a one-sided neck issue or fixation, or for someone to know if you've got a one-sided neck fixation, if you look that way, it's fine. When you look that way, and it's only that far, that's indication of a one-sided neck issue. That's indication of a compensation higher up.
Speaker 1:And then going into the skull there's 22 bones that make up the skull. The skull is to protect the brain and then the skull is your satellite dish. Satellite dish picks up information. So you're picking up too much information, not enough Is the information you've tuned your satellite into kind of not the stuff that you want to pick up. Is it the stuff that you pick up too much of or you're focusing on, you know, whatever, however that looks for someone that can mess with the antenna. So therefore, you can get, let's say, fused sutures on one side, which will put mechanical tension on the brain on one side, which could be a sensory motor cortex, it could be deeper into digestion myriad of stuff and that'll present somewhere else. Yeah, and then elbows can represent how much tension you've got. So if you walked around with flexed elbows, it represents a lot of tension. Wrists and hand what are you trying to get a grip of in life? That's just some examples. Yeah, psychosomaticness, yeah.
Speaker 2:Yeah, awesome, awesome. So we've spoken a lot about, I guess, what can go wrong. Right, what can cause conditions, what can cause symptomology? But what about solutions? What can be done to help people when they have issues with their organs that are potentially causing pain or other issues in the body?
Speaker 1:I think, firstly, you've just got to be aware of it. That's the just knowing. And you might have been on a journey where you've just got to be aware of it. That's the um, just knowing. And you might have been on a journey where you've been in so much pain for so long. You've seen this person, that person, and it's you just at that point, fuck, just done. And yeah, you and I have probably met many of them, right, yeah, where he's like, oh, sick of this shit, just do something or whatever. And it's, firstly, just okay. So if I've seen this Cairo for 20 visits and I get relief for a day, then it keeps coming back and there's got to be a part of you that says, okay, maybe it's not a chiropractic thing, maybe I need to look outside and maybe you might feel kind of lost on that. That's maybe where you need to sort of just explore different people, but that's when that's really an opportunity for you to look inside yourself and say, right, this that's. I'll just keep going with the Cairo example.
Speaker 1:I think maybe, because I've heard it a thousand times this month I've gone to see this person that works for a day or two days, whatever. It's not a joint thing, it's not a spine thing. Okay, there's got to be other questions. I need to start asking what am I eating? Is that creating inflammation in the joints? So if it's working for a day, the chiropractor is releasing the joints, therefore taking pressure off the nervous system for the nervous system to sort of do what it's doing, but that's only for a day. So what am I doing in those hours, days after the appointment? What kind of stress am I under? Or what's making me feel that in that time? What am I eating? How much am I drinking? What's a recurrent thought that just keeps playing? What's that soundtrack that keeps playing? I'm just going to make a note of it for now. Track that keeps playing. And I'm just going to make a note of it for now.
Speaker 1:So all I want to do is just becoming aware of what that is, because I'm done with laying on the table saying take, take it away. I need to start paying attention to what's going on. Okay, and most people have to get to such a point where they can barely walk to get to this sort of stage, as you'd know. Then I say, okay, the chiro has told me, or physio whoever they're seeing has told me this. I'm going to try that, but first I'm just going to see how it feels. Is that congruent with who I am, what I believe?
Speaker 1:If I'm going to see, let's say, a physio, but I want to include diet stuff, I want to include what stretches should I do before bed and why and how long Is the physio going to do that? Maybe one will, maybe this one will, maybe it won't, but while I'm at the physio I'm going to ask all these questions and if they can't answer them, then I need a different person. So at very least I'm going to know not to see that person or continue with that person. I'm going to get clarity either way, but I'm going to get clarity on, firstly, okay, between appointments, this is what I'm doing, this is what I'm eating, drinking, this is how I sleep, these are my I guess let's say thought patterns, this is my workout routine, et cetera. Is that contributing to it?
Speaker 1:So, essentially, what I'm becoming is my own therapist, and really the patient is the best doctor, because the patient knows the patient better than the doctor can ever know the patient. All the doctor's role is to just do that and then the body can do what it does. So what the patient should do is infinite. What they are willing to do, that's a different episode altogether. Yeah, but it's more becoming aware of of okay, and it depends on how deep they want to go within themselves. If they want to go really deep, they can ask the.
Speaker 1:The question that most people want to avoid is okay, what thought is creating the current problem I am experiencing? I am experiencing, as Einstein said, the same thought. The problem can't be solved with the same thinking that created it. So what thought is creating the same problem? Yeah, so what do I need to do different? Yeah, and it's probably not the chiro's problem or chiro's fault. Chiro's doing what the chiro knows to do, physio's doing what the physio knows what to do. It's what am I doing outside those sessions? That's where the war is.
Speaker 2:Yeah.
Speaker 1:The battle is at the chiro or with the trainer, or whoever they're saying, but the war is. The war is who. You know what they think about when they're alone. The war is in the cupboard. The war is in the fridge. The war is in their relationships. That's the real. If you want to dance, that's where the dance floor is. Yeah, now, it's a different story, obviously, if you've been in an accident or whatever, but that's what needs to happen if a real change is to occur. Yeah, awesome.
Speaker 2:Awesome, so awesome, awesome. So, matt, is there anything else you want to add before we wrap up?
Speaker 1:I just want to give a shout out to Lee Love Lee's work for many years and it's a real privilege to be on this podcast, so I hope you all follow Lee.
Speaker 2:Awesome, great stuff. And what's next for you, matt?
Speaker 1:next is continuing doing my thing doing. I also have a podcast, and so the wizard and the priestess, we do our our thing and just keep loving life Cool and tell us a little bit about your podcast.
Speaker 2:What kind of things do you cover?
Speaker 1:Oh, we cover everything I'm trying to. So my co-host is Nuala and she it's called the Wizard and the Priestess I did not pick the name. Um, it's a long story, but um, we, we talk about many subjects and she's an acupuncturist and I'm a wizard parent, um, but yeah, we talk about many subjects. We try to bring the East and the West concepts together and her partner's going through a bit of a time at the moment. So, yeah, I bring kind of the science, she brings the spirit and then sometimes that flips. But we cover all topics and she brings the Eastern medicine with Western concepts and we're just trying to cover everything, just like you are, lee, but I guess she's more of an Eastern perspective. We talk anatomy.
Speaker 2:She goes to sleep Slowly, waking her up to that, but yeah, just trying to help as many people as we can awesome awesome and where can people find you online like where would you like to send people to get more information on, on you and your podcast?
Speaker 1:uh, so online it's really just either the wizard and the priestesscom or we have an instagram page which I feel like I should know the Wizard and the Priestess. My personal website is hillhubnet, or just mattsorrensonhh. On Instagram. That's just where I like to share.
Speaker 2:Cool, awesome, matt. Thank you so much, it's been great. It's probably the longest chat we've ever had. I mean, probably known each other a long time, but, yeah, certainly the longest chat we've ever had and I think it's been great. You know, first of all, to share kind of how complex the human body is, but also to kind of share, you know, some of the wisdom that you've learned, not just from the your check training, but your other training as well with baral and and all the other stuff you've done.
Speaker 1:So I think, yeah, it's been a really, really great discussion today no, I appreciate that, and your, your work's also something I've been inspired with as well. So, yeah, that's, uh, it's definitely a, a two-way street awesome, great stuff.
Speaker 2:so that's all from matt and me for this week, but don't forget to join me. Same a two-way street Awesome, great stuff. So that's all from Matt and me for this week, but don't forget to join me. Same time, same place next week on the Radical Health Rebel Podcast. Cheers, guys. Thanks for tuning in, remember to give the show a rating and a review and I'll see you next time.
