Acosta Institute
Acosta Institute
S1 Ep 3: Sitting with Paradox and the Alchemy of Now with Drisana McDaniel
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Drisana (Dru) McDaniel, mother-worker-activist and co-founder of the Transformative Teaching Collective, speaks to the power of sitting with paradox and how reorienting ourselves to the present moment can support us with integration and transmutation - what she calls becoming the everyday alchemist. Through sharing her lived experiences and her perspective on ‘turning towards’ versus ‘turning away,’ she provides a transformative and courageous foundation for engaging with the world.
Welcome to the Acosta Institute Podcast. I'm Dr. Hunter Acosta. This is a series of conversations with friends and colleagues from a variety of fields who are in pursuit of healing-centered education. This interview is led by my dear colleague Maria Tan.
SPEAKER_02I'm so excited that uh we're you're here and you're joining us for this interview today. And I'm really excited about your work and your framework. And um, I listened to your notes and your videos, and it's just, I feel like there's so much, there's so much we could talk about. Um, and I'd love to actually just start with what has kept you grounded throughout these times of transition.
SPEAKER_01Yeah, so um, so there's that prayer that I made. There's this prayer that I made, and I made this prayer while driving um on my way to Asheville, just as COVID was really becoming a thing. You know, in such a time as this, when the ego wants to fix or to blame me, we choose radical trust, infinite hope, and the promise of a newer. And that prayer um surprised me when it came up and out. Um, and I thought, this is it. This is, I was looking for something to remember during these times, and this is it. It's it's that simple. It's it's just it's that simple to uh how might I how might I practice radical trust? How might I hold and have infinite hope? And how might I look to the promise of a newer? And then there was so much paradox with COVID, but there's this way also that sort of mindfully turning towards the unknown allow me to pay attention to so many gifts. So when COVID hit, I was I was doing some interviews for some research with uh spiritual activists, women, and I'd go out in the back patio early in the morning when it was still cool, and I'd I'd set up um on the back patio and have my interviews there. And so there's this way that that I could just be really present for the change of day, right? The way that the sun would move across the day and this different sounds of nature, and taking my lunch out there or my dinner out there with my children. There was just a way that, like facing a time of unknown with mindfulness and stillness kept me well. I still think of it as a miracle today, but yeah, uh just just coming home to myself in a sense and sort of accepting, like, oh, okay, here we are in these very unknown times. What might they have to offer us alongside the unknown or inside of it?
SPEAKER_02Yeah, yeah, and I'm really hearing um a deep sense of slowing down. Yeah, and I'm hearing also um you're building your capacity to be with what is. And I know that's a really big part of your framework. So could you share more about your framework?
SPEAKER_01Yeah, so the framework, you know, I I've entitled the framework The Alchemy of Now. It took shape during this time, during this last year or so. Really thinking about what it is that we can do now, and what is it, what must it mean to meet the present uh moment with a sense of um curiosity, capacity, hope, presence. And so, yeah, slowing down is really important. So here's the thing like with COVID, I think, I think that so many of us became aware at how unsustainable uh business as usual was. It was so fast. We sat in traffic, you know, dealing with fumes from from cars and uh pollution and noise. And so what happened in slowing down is all of that was gone, right? And and it was it was a bit easier to tap in, if you will, to what is, which is what the framework is about. So the framework, as it's emerged, has sort of shaped itself into I think three kind of main pieces, and it's about um I say alchemy because it's about this idea of turning us towards transmutation and what transmutation is, right? Transmutation is defined as to change or to alter inform, appearance, or nature. And so the reason I think of uh this framework as um a transmutation is because while it doesn't change what exists, it changes our relationship to what exists. And I think that when we live in relationship to what exists from a more grounded place, then we are changed and the experience is changed. Um, and so my framework was born out of really thinking about like, oh, how is it that I have been able to face what is and what might it offer for all of us in in thinking about that? And so it's these three parts to it. One is how might we honor change, the inevitability of change. The second part is how might we make peace with paradox? And the third part is um, how might we remember? It's it's connected to remembering. And each of these parts and pieces sort of have their own practices that emerge from them. They're dimensions, they're dimensions and they're not linear, they're dimensions and we're never really completely fastened in one particular area, but they are dimensions uh that can be named. And and the idea of being able to um live in a way that honors change, promises the experience of radical trust and infinite hope. The experience of being able to make peace with paradox leads to expansiveness, increases our capacity to be with what is, uh, and also I think um triggers creativity from that place. And I could say more about that. And then the part about remembering is if you were to see the word re would be in parentheses, so it's going back again, and there's multiple ways to look at that, but what it promises us is uh recovery and self-compassion and and power from that and all of these sort of dimensions require a slowing down of sorts. Uh it doesn't mean that we can't have busy and full lives, you know. I consider myself a mother worker activist, I'm very busy, but it it does require that we're constantly sort of noticing openings for what I what I call sips of air and slivers of light, openings, opportunities to ground ourselves, to tend to ourselves. And that can take a variety of shapes, you know, that depending on our lives and and what we have for us or have access to even.
SPEAKER_02And I know you've mentioned in our conversations before, and and just a bit here, um, that your identity as a mother has impacted your framework. So I'm curious in what ways and also in what ways does it impact your work in general?
SPEAKER_01Yeah, thanks. So um I think parenting, my father, you know, promised me the day that I had my son that it would be the hardest and most rewarding work I ever I ever do. But uh it's been a very paradoxical experience. It's the richest, most wonderful experience I've ever had, ever allowed, you know, um, and it's it's been with it's come with challenges, and I and I would connect that more or less to my sort of um orientation towards the world. Mothering as a black woman who is unmarried is a queerness of its own, three children, you know, it's a queerness of its own. And so there's this way that I became very attuned to some of the suffering, the real, the very real suffering that comes with sort of uh living in in the margin, so to speak, in sort of um creating a life that runs counter to sort of our the master narratives, the way they would have us to be in the world, right? To see ourselves as institutions and to ourselves, to uh follow a particular type of protocol. This is how to be successful in the world. So there's a lot of suffering, um, and joy and pleasure, by the way, like all of that. And so for me, you know, definitely I'd say for the last 13 years, 14 years or so, I've been I've I've been a well, I've always had a really deep interior life, but really engaging sort of wakeful contemplation through grad graduate schools helped me. The structure of graduate schools helped me to really think a lot about my life and think a lot about um what we're doing. Uh the acad in the academy in particular, kind of waking up to like, oh, this this place wasn't built for me. This wasn't built for people like me. This wasn't built for a mother worker activist, this wasn't built for someone who's working a lot and has to work a lot. Uh, I really started to dig thin, kind of dig like, what does it mean that this place wasn't built for me? And the way that I sort of discovered this framework um was through the structure of school and through the structure of kind of like finding these counter-narratives, finding voices of incredible scholars who are living in the archives, right? Their voices are living in the archives. And I see very much my position as a mother worker activist engaging with the academy that my work is to mine the archives, is to leave something that says we were here, and to bring in, you know, the our experiences, uh, and to really, really talk about these and write about these in a way so that other people can access them and know that this is how we survive. So this is the this is the complexity of how we are in the world. And so, yeah, just kind of waking up to like, oh, this institution isn't made for me, and uh, oh, oh, as much as I thought that I must have done something wrong in having my children, like because it was such struggle, right? Doing waking up to realities like, oh, how do I get my kids in schools where they're not at risk if I can only afford to live in this neighborhood? Um, and the type of intense work that it required that wasn't necessarily sustainable to try to survive these systems that are um created and designed for capitalism, for sort of status quo lives, and really becoming just incredibly aware of how impossible that is. But what happened is for the longest time, before I started sort of finding these other ways of being in the world, it was implosive, right? So I thought it was me. Oh, surely I've made really bad decisions. Oh, how am I gonna survive this? And so I had a lot of suffering, right? And and and and I wasn't necessarily in a place where I felt like I was facing a lot of that suffering as much as I was uh coping, trying to numb, trying to, you know, um just coping, like really just like a hamster on a wheel almost. And so this framework has been born out of having those conversations, mining the archives, finding that we that it's really the room that's crooked, like Melissa Harris Perry says, it's the crooked room we're trying to stand straight in, and everyone's trying to pretend like we're crooked. It's the room that's crooked. And so, how do we begin to renegotiate our orientation inside of that room? How do we maybe illuminate the margins, right? Because I'm not necessarily trying to come out of them. They were never wrong in the first place, you know. Um, and so how do we begin to have conversations where we're thinking about how we not only survive but thrive? So the thing about resilience that can get tricky, right? Is resilience becomes sort of this self-help thing. And but how can we allow resilience to flow? How can we see resilience as a flow? Uh, like Res Momennikin talks about it. How can we see it as something that flows through us? How can I still be here? And so the framework is born out of me really thinking deeply about how is it that I'm still here when I've been engaging with systems that were not designed for my wellness necessarily? How is it that I'm still here and I'm well? I'm not just here coping anymore, I'm not just grabbing for strings to hold on. How am I, you know, how have I been able to sort of be in this place? And counter to like any narratives of sort of like the toxic positivity, like this is not about like, oh, happy, happy, joy, joy. This is about recognizing that there is suffering and there is joy and pleasure. And so, how do we sort of turn towards our lives in a way that enables us to work with that kind of muscling, you know, work with that kind of that kind of orientation, move throughout our lives in that way. And mothering just happened to be the access point for me. You know, mothering just happened to be one of the most important experiences of my life.
SPEAKER_02Yeah. So beautifully shared, thank you. And I'm hearing also, as you're saying, like the both and I really see that highlighted and illuminated in the part of your framework about being with paradox. And I also am hearing, you know, your your key was alchemizing your orientation and you're you're just you're living that so beautifully, because you even said just a moment ago, like you, you know, sort of corrected yourself to having to, oh wait, I'm allowing this. You know, I really feel that and I honor you and your thriving in your work. Yeah, and I'm wondering also if you can say a little bit more about um mining for the counter narrative in the face of the master narratives and how that is an act of transmutation.
SPEAKER_01Yeah. Um it's so deep, right? Because while I'm saying the that the that I know that the academy is not built for me, I also know there's a part of me, like I know it's a part of my path to and my way, uh, to like a following breadcrumbs. What I often call like my my whole trajectory through the academy has really been following breadcrumbs. Oh, there's that, oh, there's that. There are just so many ways I would have left my purpose behind if I couldn't bear witness to the multitude of stories that exist about how we have been in the world. And so what I mean is like, and we have to mine for those, right? We have to mine for those, and not for them to live in the academy necessarily. I definitely like want to hit up the archives and leave. Like, I recently created this piece of artwork that is like a a woman tagging up a wall, and I put, you know, we were here, like a way of showing that we were here. But like, yeah, like when I find the work of people like Alexis Pauline Gums, when I find the work of like Audrey Lorde, right? Um, when I find the work of like M. Jackie Alexander, like there's these stories in here where I can I begin to sort of know, like, oh, there we are. Oh, you know, there's some digging to that, like there's some like archaeology, right? Like you gotta get into that and discover it. But that in finding those, again, I'm able to like, whatever it was that that curiosity that made me think, like, surely, surely there's gotta be more to this. Uh that finding those stories were validating, right? They were validating, like, oh no, here we are. The work of Sadia Hartman, her book Wayward Lives Beautiful Experiments, where she, you know, and this is very much, I'm I'm sharing this because it's very much sort of the way that I kind of see this work happening, is where she was able to mine the archives of our stories. And when she got to a place where she could no longer, she didn't really see there were missing, there was missing information that there is this process by which she was able to sort of put together the missing pieces to to celebrate or amplify wayward lives. And I would put myself in that in that place, right, to amplify our stories, in doing so, remind us of our rightness, right? Our right to the gift of life, our rightness to being here and to living out loud and to illuminating our nuance is literally life-saving for me because I know that it's the work of my purpose to share what I myself have experienced, but also like in conversation with others, right? Um, because that's how we that's how we stay here. That's how we, when we, when we can see, like, oh, you two? Oh, okay, I thought it was just me. Oh, I thought something was wrong. It's the way that we reclaim our lives. So the counter-narratives are important, and we, there's a reason we don't have access to a lot of them. It's it's it's it's histories littered with oppression. It's also histories that honored the written word, right? Where we had stories to pass on, but there's also all kinds of complications in how we lost some of those things. So it's like being able to find that which has been lost and committed somewhere so it's living, right? Lifted in our conversations, right? So that someone else can pick that up and say, Oh, yeah, me too. Oh, I'm okay. So more of that, more of the counter-narratives that have been intentionally sort of, or that have somehow, you know, been buried. Um, sometimes on purpose, I think, even you know, some of our stories, you know, sometimes people didn't want necessarily to be found, you know. There are reasons that we disappeared too. But also, like, how do we retrieve what was lost, maybe, and and know more about that so that we have a sense of integrity?
SPEAKER_02Yeah. And also like retrieving, remembering and uh using the act of creation, creativity, and alchemy to create infinite possibilities.
SPEAKER_01Yes. So when I think of transmutation in in being an everyday alchemist, right, it's being with our experiences. It's it's alchemy is indeed about sort of the changing of, right? Yes, it's retrieving, it's being the alchemist, it's being with the experience, it's being with what is happening. It is not apart from it, it is being the subject, right? Not the object, but the subject of our lives. And yes, it's future dreaming, it's possibilities, right? It's like what I was saying about Hartman, part of the story was there, and then in these ways, the way that we discover and find the other part of the story, you know, and there's a lot of that, like I think with black and brown and indigenous people in general, like I wanted to learn more about um my grandmother, who's an ancestor, and whose stories were just gone. And you know, I was working on my mother's line, I wanted to know more about her. And so I started looking, like, well, how are people like retrieving ancestral stories? And I and I realized that much of that could be found in fictional narratives written by women of color. Much of that you could, you could, um, you could learn more about how we create from the unknown, how we begin to sort of put things together through works like that, or Tony Morrison or these ways that and there was a reason that we didn't see it in nonfiction as much because I think that we're just, I think we're just at a place where we're starting to really like articulate these things. I think that we're just at a time where in in our history where we're able to like start doing things like committing these stories to the archives, you know, talking about recovery, talking about remembering. And so, yeah, so it was through that that I started thinking, oh my gosh, like how do I find these stories so that I can know what's living in me, you know, so I can understand these patterns, right? And so I feel more oriented in a way that I can move through the world, I guess. Uh, I'm more empowered to move towards in the in the world. And for me, that came from being able to make some connections between my grandmother's life as a mother and experiences she couldn't have, and the experiences I'm able to have. The way that that's all kind of living forward. And so, yeah, so it's just this she couldn't parent the way that I have I can parent. It might not be easy all the time, but I really can parent, right? And so it's picking up, right? Picking up some of the unsaid, finding it in uh conversation with her. It's hard to explain, but she's she's been around since my firstborn. And because I'm a generation removed, the conversation was fairly easy to have. Like, and so putting together the pieces, like just dropping in and oh, this is why I'm doing what I'm doing the way I'm doing it. But it's literally having these conversations and bearing witness to these types of like stories, like like I said, to the different people I mentioned that I'm like, oh my gosh, okay, okay, you did okay, that's there.
SPEAKER_03Mm-hmm.
SPEAKER_02Yeah, amazing. And there's for our listeners right now, Drisana has a giant smile on her face as she's as she's speaking all of this, and it's really as if also an alchemy of you know the pain that our ancestors might have felt into a joy now, even the way you describe it of finding these breadcrumbs and digging in the archives and these moments of insight. Like there's this joy that's coming out of you as you're saying this. Um, I'd love for you to elaborate on that.
SPEAKER_01Yeah, well, it's not mine alone. That I know, right? It's like it's healing. I I know that um my grandmother is with me. I mean, I can't explain, like I can't say, well, she's definitely experiencing joy, but I know that there's there's a joy in me in having a sense of knowing you know the epigenetics, right? Knowing that she's in me and knowing that what I'm doing, she wasn't necessarily doing. And there's a way that so, right, so like if if indeed the past is here and the future is here in this present moment, then there's this just the joy comes from knowing that like being able to face what is lives forward, it lives forward, and and and I remember thinking, who do I think I am to look back at what everyone else wasn't really willing to tap into and touch, you know, because of their own experiences with it, right? Like I know Daniel Ford talks a lot about with ancestry, talks a lot about like how other people's memories of their ancestors can keep them from moving into uh a healthy relationship with them. And so sometimes it's the next generation, right? Who can better move into relationship? And so, like, who am I to look back, but then understanding, like, oh, I know who I am because hello, she's been here, and so moving through that process, which was not easy, by the way, but moving into that process and getting to a place where, like, you know, it was a breathwork ceremony for me that at a this this uh wild women's this healing uh herbal healing retreat that I was at with friends, that that everything sort of happened in is that moment that I'd been walking with this information, I've been writing about it, I've been tending to my altar, right? And and then all of a sudden, you know, I go to this this retreat, and then that thing happens, and I'm like, oh my gosh, and we're good, and we're good, and we've healed this. And that was alchemy. And then subsequently, like as I raise, you know, my two daughters, right? There's just, and even my relationship with my mother has changed, right? Because there's that too. Like, she's right here with my daughters, and we're all just we're good, so there's real joy in that, right? There's real joy in that, and I did not have to go to my mother to re-traumatize her with what I discovered and learned. All I had to do was just live in relationship to that, and and and and just watch how our own relationship changes as a result, you know, and like I said, it's not I I really don't want to like be the toxic posity because there's a lot of recovery here, right? Um, but the joy is real, the joy is real, yeah.
SPEAKER_02And I I think it's important to acknowledge that that power of being with what is really moves us away from the resistance and allows joy to naturally arise.
SPEAKER_01Yeah, we can't, I mean, that's the thing too, is like in thinking about like having a conversation today, you know, I was thinking a lot about like this idea, like the question is like, for how long is resistance sustainable? Like, for how long do we resist what is? Like it's just not sustainable. That's what I meant when I said I'm more or less numb from it, or even just staying focused in the overwhelm of it all.
SPEAKER_02Yeah.
SPEAKER_01Like that's just not sustainable.
SPEAKER_02How do you see your work connected to bringing a sense of restoration and healing?
SPEAKER_01Yeah, so um, what comes to mind for me is sort of the the alchemy of now again is about being with what is so. Um it's it's it's integration, being present with all the things is how we transmute them, right? And in in and so versus, like I said, you know, the all the ways that we can resist, you know, be being too busy, numbing, overwork, whatever, uh cutting ourselves off, even, you know, isolating, like all of these ways that we avoid reality harm us, they implode. And so the antidote to that is how do we engage? And what muscles do we need to strengthen in order to engage? And that's sort of where those pieces and parts of the framework come in. Yeah, it's it's moving from denial, it's getting away from that, it's getting to a place where we can turn towards our lives as they are and and discover so much and integrate so much and heal by um accepting or heal by, as I mentioned before, like holding paradox, right? Holding paradox for the the the nuance and the multiplicities that we are, the both and the and the both, the oh, oh, this is this is hard, and oh, this is restorative, right? This is this brings me joy and relief. Um, and and being able to uh achieve a sense of wholeness. Um and I wouldn't have known it was possible. I really would not have known it was possible. This is the thing about the framework, and it gives me chills. Like I would not have known it was possible if I didn't begin doing those things. And also, like I said, recognizing that my my um experiences were not because I created them, right? It was not because I did something wrong, right? It was like recognizing that this is this is how the world is. There are these things, that this is what being alive is, there will be these things, there will be generational pain, right? There will be systemic inequities, right? There will be overwhelm. How do we meet those? What do we need? What might we increase our capacity around so that we can meet those experiences as opposed to being sort of taken out by them, right? You know, I talked a bit about like the kinds of things I did. I talked about sips of, you know, sort of sips of air, right? Slivers of light, like those looking for those, while following, looking for the openings to um care for ourselves, really, um, and find joy. So part of the alchemy of now and part of this, that in particular that one dimension of remembering is um is the recovery piece. It's the and recovery is and recognizing that recovery is not linear, but it's thinking about um some in some ways I think I connect recovering to this idea of uncovering, right? So how we heal, like, oh, what was that? What's there really that's that's yearning? What am I really yearning for um to feel a sense of wholeness and integrity and intactness? Um, and that that is a part of the recovery piece. And I should say that recovery, this is why we talk about the groundedness piece, right? Is that recovery begs of us to move from being fragmented, move from being cut off to ourselves, to I don't know what word to use besides integrating, but to uh allowing all that is to be. And so um that was a big part of the recovery piece. Again, it's like not resisting, right? But maybe becoming more curious about okay, what is here for me? What is this really about? It's um being attuned, right? It's being sensitive, and this is what uh getting grounded, slowing down a bit enables is is the sensitivity, is the noticing. Um, and I think that, yeah, I think that we're when we're resisting or when we're just busying, busying, busying, numbing, numbing, numbing, ignoring, ignoring, ignoring, you know, what is there to be, you know, for our healing, right? For our integration, we we don't really notice it. We don't really notice it, and so we can't turn towards it, right? And so we just continue to move through the world, kind of split from ourselves. And so I you so the recovering of those narratives, right? And being able to see, like, oh, I'm okay. Oh, we've been doing this. Oh, oh, you too, that we begin to reclaim these parts of ourselves, not only reclaim them, but to honor them, right? To honor like everything that we are. This is why I don't talk a lot about like higher, like the word higher, how it comes up a lot, like higher, our higher consciousness, our higher, I think it's all belongs, right? But just how can we um include all of all of the parts of who we are and our stories and our how do we include it all? How do we how do we make room for all of who we are?
SPEAKER_02So is there anything that's coming up for you after these last few questions or after our talk?
SPEAKER_01Um, I want to distinguish between this being something that's self-oriented. I do want to distinguish that this is the kind of work that is not, you know, the self fixing the self. I want to get away from that. That that a lot of my wellness that I experience has happened also by having really amazing witnesses in my life and people who really hold space for my processing of this. For instance, like May Elloir, who is my advisor in my grand program, like there are ways that I process things and didn't even know that there was that there was something to it, right? Um, and and could reflect, like, no, this is this is important to think about and this is important to share about. And so I just want to, you know, uh Clarissa Piccoles Pinkola esquis talks about an allelujah uh chorus. I just want to encourage that people look for their allelujah chorus. And those are the people who just big you up, you know, who walk through the fire with you, who hold the space while you're in process, and we're always in process, that this is not our work alone, right? So my talking about it alone is my talking about it. The reason it feels so important and essential is because it's a conversation that I know people maybe started to have with themselves and and just haven't thought, oh, oh, that is something. And so, like that this is this is our work, it's intergenerational, right? It's um chosen family work, it's community work, it's uh hearing each other into being, kind of kind of work.
SPEAKER_02Yeah, yeah, and as you mentioned in one of our previous conversations, the community piece is so important because you can't see yourself in yourself, right? You see yourself in others, that's right.
SPEAKER_01And that's intentional, that's how you know we're supposed to be in community, and that's getting away from that master narrative again, right? That says that we should be able to, you should create your life and you should be, you know, free, and you should not have to lean on anyone. Like all of these just I mean, how many of us would be, we wouldn't be here without I wouldn't be here without the people, you know, my community. I I couldn't do it all. We're not we're not designed that way. So again, like lifting that up, like we are here for each other.
SPEAKER_02Um, yeah, and I think you almost see a lot of the um master narratives around resilience come from that place, and I think your framework is really beautiful for offering um a different type of or offering a different way resilience can arise from the ability to extend your capacity to be with what is and to alchemize your orientation to your experiences. It's really powerful.
SPEAKER_01Yeah, thank you so much.
SPEAKER_02Um so what do you think is a future worth living into?
SPEAKER_01A future worth living, gosh, that's a big question. Uh especially because I'm very much not incredibly future oriented. But what I will say is that I think a future worth living into is the future that we create together. Um I'm really excited about the future that you know, when I think about some of my mentors, some of my mentors are like 22. My son's one of them, you know. I think about the young teachers and this generation that we've given birth to, what they are, what they are doing. So a future that's worth living into is a future that we create with them. Um it's really I I really recognize like that we must honor the intergenerational, our intergenerational um ways of being with each other. Um so there's a there's a lot of mystery there, right? Just to be really honest, like for me, there's a lot of mystery because I'm I don't know what tomorrow is going to look like. And also because I find that there is a part of me that's resistant to thinking about what should happen. I'm more curious about what we could create together. Um and I'm okay with sort of the mystery around that. I'm becoming more and more clear about what doesn't work, right? And so what doesn't work is is sort of this idea of seeing ourselves as producers. Uh, what doesn't work is living out of uh sync with our gifts. What doesn't work, you know, as my son constantly reminds me, is like, you know, subjecting ourselves to these hourly gigs uh that use our bodies for a nominal fee and seeing our worth is related to what we can produce in the world, that's what doesn't work. But um, I'm still learning what will work. I know this is a part of it, being able to be with reality and find ways to like reconstruct, right? Like, so that's another thing that I kind of briefly touched on, and I'll just be really quick with this. But there's this idea that the early portion of our life is really about sort of the rules, right? A lot of master narrative, depending on what you're engaging with in terms of learning and socialization. But that this of this sort of middle portion of my of the life, I think again about like my son's cohort, 22, 30s, you know, is really about um deconstructing that. And then we get to sort of where I'm at in midlife, I think, and beyond, where we're really into reconstructing and imagining new possibilities. Um, but I think that that's born of community. And so I will say this one thing, just as I'm thinking out loud with you, I do think that our futures will rely on us being intentional about our interconnectedness, being very intentional about tending to that and nurturing that and holding space for each other in creative ways because we're all over the place now, right? And not letting that be an excuse though to where we're not community building, where we're really able to like tap into how we're connected across the globe and learning with and from each other.
SPEAKER_02Yeah, and I'm hearing I'm hearing you say this already a little bit. Um, but what are the kinds of actions you think we can take now to make that happen?
SPEAKER_01Well, a lot of what I think is happening with um this work that we're seeing like with um Dr. Costa, like creating these intentional gatherings where we can connect with each other around ideas and actions. So, like I said, you finding the time to slow down is really important so that we can sort of have a sense of what feels nurturing, like how we are tempting to ourselves. And I also think that finding ways to lift our gifts up with each other is an action. And so, what that means is like for instance, um thinking about um just very recently putting my youngest in art camp and at a local gallery that's new, but ending up engaging in kind kind of conversation with the executive director about what they're looking to do with this new space. And as we're talking, of course, we start having these conversations around, yeah, I really, you know, this person, I'm really interested in building community, and like then I think, oh, well, you know, I facilitate, right? And so, like, you know, having so our conversation, our five-minute conversation becomes an hour-long conversation where we start thinking about like what kind of work we can do together, you know, and so it's it's that it's like paying attention, noticing like the opportunities that arise for us to meet them with each other. So, yeah, I I think that that's you know, we slow down to notice, and then once we notice, we begin to um to act accordingly, you know, to what is needed and and to and to see where and how we can be helpers with each other.
SPEAKER_02Yeah, I'm also getting a sense of um allowing yourself to be inspired. And I know I certainly am every time that we chat. I'm so inspired by your work and and what you thank you.
SPEAKER_01Thank you so much. Yeah, I think it it if we could expect all, you know, we could I mean it's everywhere, there are reasons everywhere, right? We're all but really getting to a place where that's in our body, like that's a sense also where we're attuned to to notice um that it's all around us in the middle of the terrible, next to the terrible are is also the the wondrous and and the reasons to just be in deep gratitude. I'm inspired by you, and I just it's it's really a gift to just your reflections are a real gift. I'm I'm so deeply grateful for.
SPEAKER_02Thank you. Thank you. I love love talking to you. This was so energizing, inspiring, beautiful, insightful, all of the above. So thank you for your time. Thank you for being here with us today.
SPEAKER_00Thank you so much for listening. I hope this work is nourishing and ordered. I encourage you to follow multiple social media platforms where you can learn more about our courses and other offerings. May this work and all of us continue to thrive.