UX for AI

EP. 83 - Driving the Future: How AI is Revolutionizing EV Charging and Renewable Energy w/ Arun Anand

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This podcast transcript features a conversation between the host and Arun, the founder and CEO of Electric Miles, a company specializing in AI-driven smart charging and energy flexibility solutions for electric vehicles (EVs). The discussion explores the intersection of AI and energy, focusing on how technology can optimize EV charging, reduce costs, and contribute to a more sustainable energy future.

Arun shares his journey from working in the traditional energy sector, including roles with utilities in the UK and Europe, to founding Electric Miles. His inspiration came after driving a Tesla Model S, which he felt was years ahead of other vehicles in terms of technology and performance. This experience, combined with his background in energy, led him to explore how AI could revolutionize EV charging. He realized that while EVs are environmentally friendly, the electricity used to charge them often comes from non-renewable sources like coal or gas. This insight drove him to develop a solution that not only optimizes charging costs but also ensures that EVs are charged using renewable energy whenever possible.


Electric Miles started as a web application designed to help EV owners charge their vehicles at the cheapest and greenest times by leveraging grid data and renewable energy availability. The platform has since grown significantly, now serving over 13,000 users and managing more than 300,000 charging sessions. Arun explains how the platform uses AI to automate charging schedules, ensuring that vehicles are charged during off-peak hours or when renewable energy is abundant. This not only reduces costs for drivers but also alleviates strain on the grid.


One of the key innovations Arun discusses is energy flexibility, where EV owners can earn money by adjusting their charging behavior. For example, during peak demand, EV owners can choose not to charge their vehicles or even sell energy back to the grid. Arun highlights a project in Austria where Electric Miles successfully traded energy from EVs back to the grid in real-time, showcasing the potential of bidirectional charging. This technology allows EVs to act as mobile energy storage units, contributing to grid stability and reducing the need for additional power plants.


Arun acknowledges the challenges of renewable energy, particularly its intermittency and reliance on weather conditions. He emphasizes the importance of energy storage solutions, such as batteries, to balance supply and demand. Looking ahead, Arun envisions a future where homes and businesses act as virtual power plants, using solar panels, batteries, and EVs to create a decentralized energy network. This approach could democratize energy production and consumption, making the grid more resilient and sustainable.


Machine learning plays a crucial role in Electric Miles' platform, optimizing charging schedules, route planning, and energy usage for fleets. Arun stresses the importance of a customer-centric approach in product development, focusing on user experience and simplicity. He shares how the company uses AI chatbots to troubleshoot charging issues, providing real-time support to users even outside business hours.


Electric Miles is expanding into new markets, including Germany, the Benelux region, and California. Arun discusses upcoming product launches, such as a net-zero program

Interested in joining the podcast? DM Behrad on LinkedIn:
https://www.linkedin.com/in/behradmirafshar/

This podcast is made by Bonanza Studios, Germany’s Premier Digital Design Studio:
https://www.bonanza-studios.com/

00:00:01:08 - 00:00:28:01
Unknown
Welcome to UX for AI, where we explore how artificial intelligence is transforming design and development. Today, we're joined by Carl to discuss how AI is accelerating MVP creation and reshaping workflows. Let's dive in. Feature of UX design, discussing AI agents and how they're reshaping creativity.

00:00:28:03 - 00:00:54:08
Unknown
So I would love to really. I think one topic that is going to be huge in future also applying AI to energy. And I know you're very busy. I know there are massive launches are ahead of you. Thanks for making time to be on the podcast. Help our audience understand what's going to come when it comes to merging AI and energy.

00:00:54:10 - 00:01:22:23
Unknown
But I would love to first and foremost into you and what you're doing, your background debate. I think that would be fantastic for our audience. So how did you end up here? First of all, thank you for having me. I'm really excited to be in your podcast. I did a little bit of research from your previous guest and, and some of the topics you guys have covered has been been terrific.

00:01:23:00 - 00:01:51:21
Unknown
Yeah, we are in 2025. And, everybody's talking about AI. But before that, let me a quick background on me. I ran on a founder and CEO of Electric Motors. 15 years plus working in the energy sector, trying to sort of bring technology in in the space, which is so fundamentally important for us. Right? Everything we do around us, is driven by energy, right?

00:01:51:23 - 00:02:38:10
Unknown
And, my I'm, I'm an engineer. I did my, electronics and, instrumentation engineering, and, before this, I used to work, I used to work for utilities in the UK and Europe. And also I had a my own energy consultancy business, which I kind of scaled from 1 to 10 people and, and, and then I think back in, almost eight, nine years ago when, obviously when Tesla came to the fore and, electric cars became a reality and, and thanks to, obviously, Elon's brilliance, I had little bit of money and I thought, I need to I need to get behind this wheel.

00:02:38:12 - 00:03:07:20
Unknown
This this Tesla car. So so I bought I bought myself I could only afford a second hand car at that time checking out Tesla, but I said no, I got to get this wheel. And. And when I drove that, it was a model S, which I still believe is the best Tesla model, to date. I was amazed, and I thought this was 5 to 10 years ahead from any of the cars I've driven and and how technology was purely driving it.

00:03:07:21 - 00:03:35:11
Unknown
Right. And, right from the interfaces to, the, the way that the talk of the vehicle and how it can go 0 to 16, literally 2.5 seconds. And the, the whole charging infrastructure of Tesla put in place and, and that's where I got I was looking for a product business at that time and for, for at least 12 months.

00:03:35:11 - 00:04:07:14
Unknown
I was been thinking, I've been talking to people. But that was the time that when I, when I bought that electric car, I was like, this is back in 20, 18, 19. And I thought, this is it. This is this I want to get behind this. And I'm really, make it mainstream because then I think government around the world started recognizing it and announcing some, some big promises, that the this is the this is the direction of travel we're going to take.

00:04:07:18 - 00:04:31:08
Unknown
And, yeah. So I started electric models, with the vision that, because I was also being from the energy sector, I was confused when to charge, how much to charge, the whole reason of buying electric cars that I was driving green. And I was, I was I'm not using fossil fuel, but the reality is being worked for an energy sector.

00:04:31:10 - 00:05:09:22
Unknown
Electricity is a very complicated, complicated commodity. You, supply and demand, minute by minute. Right. And you don't know if the energy you're putting in your car could be coming from burning coal or burning gas. So you're kind of kicking the problem, kicking the can. You're not solving it. So that's where I said, how would I develop a technology which can charge not only at the cheapest time because the driver wants to charge a cheap but also the greenest time when energy energy is actually, driven by renewable generation.

00:05:09:22 - 00:05:34:05
Unknown
So we did a quick and dirty POC, connected my car, my charger, you know, my my, my, my supplier data. And I bought the grid data and and and really the program, again, I'm a tech guy. I'm a business. I mean, I'm a business guy. I'm not a developer. So I hired, and, you know, hired a developer and said, listen, I want you to build this.

00:05:34:06 - 00:06:04:12
Unknown
And then he built it a quick and dirty book and, and. Yeah, and, it was basically automating. So all I had to do was come home, plug the car in, and that program would, tell the charger to charge at this time and end at this time and, and program it programmatically started doing that. And then I said, okay, how about I repeat this on a weekly basis and, and suddenly it was a web application, Rich, which started driving me.

00:06:04:12 - 00:06:29:10
Unknown
Then I got a few of my friends who were driving electric car on it, and suddenly we were like 100 users, and then I said, okay, well, this is I think I have a business here. Right? Then I see, okay, who's going to pay for it? I think so who's going to pay for this? So, I one of the electric charger I had at home, was a reseller from the UK.

00:06:29:11 - 00:06:52:06
Unknown
It was a Chinese product. The the application was really, really poor and the security was quite poor. And, I managed to get hold of the, the CEO's number from my installer of that manufacturer. And then I rang him and I told him, oh, I've got, I've got, I've got two things to say to you.

00:06:52:06 - 00:07:10:16
Unknown
He said, okay, I've got good news and I've put one in this. And he said, oh, what's the bad? The bad news is, your your security is quite crap. I was able to hack into the charger very, very easily. This is a I said, oh, really? Yeah. And I said, okay, what's the good news? The good news is I've got a solution for you.

00:07:10:19 - 00:07:36:23
Unknown
We can fix that. That's literally in, in, in the same week I was in his office and, and we signed, first contract this week. You close the deal? Wow. That's crazy. When? When I met him. So. So. Yeah. So now fast forward, right? Electric miles is, transforming the EV charging landscape with this AI driven smart charging and energy flexibility solution.

00:07:36:23 - 00:08:08:06
Unknown
Right. So our platform, we seamlessly connect EV drivers, fleet operators and and, and then chargepoint operators to optimize the charging, reduce the cost, and basically unlock new revenue stream. Be, the platform is really scaled from one user from me to now we have over, over 13,000 users. We've done over 300,000 charging session, bought three gigawatt for gigawatt of energy.

00:08:08:08 - 00:08:34:06
Unknown
We've now got over 150 megawatt of energy flexibility contract, where we have proven that these chargers can earn new reward by not charging at a certain time and by listening to our schedule, drivers will be able to earn 50 pound per charge for a month. And then we have done some vehicle to great innovation. So we were the one of the first company to in Austria.

00:08:34:06 - 00:09:10:22
Unknown
We did a project last year where we worked with the utility and we, actually traded the energy from the car back to the grid. And, and we were in real time. We were able to, sort of transform that. So. Yeah. So today we sell to charger manufacturers, fleet operators, and, and anybody in the, in the business of selling, chargers or solutions, we, we basically empower them with this next generation charging intelligence to scale their business while driving the future of sustainable energy.

00:09:10:22 - 00:09:32:16
Unknown
So that's that's me and and the business. That's fantastic. So I don't even know where to begin. There are so many different directions I can take the conversation towards. First of all, you've been doing this for five years. Or folks that I think perspective matters. Five years in a new sector, working with the new technology, trying to navigate.

00:09:32:21 - 00:10:02:05
Unknown
So basically whatever you touch, there is no documentation. There is no there is no library. You can there is everything is basically, open canvas, empty canvas for you. You need to basically hack your way into the system, which usually Charlie did in the beginning. I think the amount of efforts needed and persevere. And to get a business as such off the ground and scale it to 13,000, if I'm not mistaken, is beyond my comprehension.

00:10:02:05 - 00:10:25:03
Unknown
I can empathize with it. I can imagine it. But kudos to you first and foremost. Yeah, absolutely. I think I think in, you're right, the sector was really new when we, when we entered and EVs were initially were treated as a gimmick. Then everybody started taking it, a bit more seriously. And then now it's, it's a norm.

00:10:25:03 - 00:11:06:10
Unknown
Like, I'm really amazed when I go to central London, most of the taxis are electric thanks to the regulation and, the, the ultra emission zone or the zero emission zone. Most of the electric busses, almost 80% of electric of busses in London are electric already. So, you know, and when you look at the, the pollution index of central London, the air is cleaner and, and, and people might do a lot of the naysayers might not believe in it, but actually the data is proving you that we've managed to, to, to save lives in, in the city because, the, the air is cleaner and people are suffering less from as

00:11:06:10 - 00:11:34:19
Unknown
the NHS is able to save a lot of money. So there is a massive business case here, right? It's it's, it's it's basically how now we have a mandate in 20, 20, 35, like, a ban on, petrol and diesel cars. And yes, again, there are lobbyists trying to, try to block that, but but I believe the technologies here, the infrastructure is there.

00:11:34:20 - 00:12:07:00
Unknown
You know, I think we are part of a big community of electric car drivers, and we never had issues. I've driven from, from south of England to north of Scotland, and I never had problem charging. And I even I even drove from, London to Berlin across Europe. The charging infrastructure is terrific. Yeah, I agree that Tesla has a better infrastructure than others, but but there are a lot of interoperate ability things going on and stuff.

00:12:07:01 - 00:12:45:06
Unknown
That's the topic I would like to touch upon the interoperate ability of, the EV system, TV network and how sort of like evolve over time before that. So you started as a web application that allows electric car owners to charge their cars smartly. So taking advantage of, you know, the passive hours charging the car, make sure that make sure that in the active hours at least, the car battery is 80% loaded so they can drive.

00:12:45:07 - 00:13:20:09
Unknown
So then five years into making, then you realize, you know, between the lines that I think one of my concern as well, when we talk about electricity, electricity of itself is environment. What environment needs when it comes to not polluting the environment, but how the electricity is being sourced. What's this source of that? Electricity is questionable. For example, whether it's produced from coal versus petrol versus solar, right.

00:13:20:11 - 00:13:50:01
Unknown
So that was basically one of the problems space that you recognize after achieving the first milestone of the electric models, the web application for smart charging. And then fast forward, you come into a space that say, let the owners of these cars or these vehicles, let them make money if it's possible, by trading it back to the grid.

00:13:50:04 - 00:14:20:19
Unknown
So basically this is the timeline that you've been, on since the founding of electric motors, is that correct? Yes. Yes, absolutely. Absolutely. Just to touch upon the. Yeah, you you talked you made a really good point around the electricity generation, right. So it's just for everybody's benefit in in 2024 in the UK. The UK is a big advance when it comes to kind of the infrastructure on EVs, but also the grid and the smart grid side.

00:14:20:21 - 00:15:04:07
Unknown
I mean, you got Scandinavian countries even more for the head than the UK, right? But in the UK, today, renewable energy and, and nuclear, which is seen as a clean energy, 60% of the energy already comes from them, obviously, but we still get, 20 to 40% depending on the weather. And if it's obviously coal, then more and more, I mean, gas gets used, but but yeah, I think the way the grid has transformed and renewable energy is growing, we are looking to build so many more, wind farms and so many more, solar panels.

00:15:04:09 - 00:15:29:17
Unknown
I mean, yes, you know, this country doesn't get a lot of sun, but solar panels also works from brighter and brighter days, right? In summer, people do produce a lot of electricity. But I think the issue is with with a lot of renewable energy. It's one thing is sure is it's susceptible, right? It's intermittent. You cannot forecast it, because it's very weather dependent.

00:15:29:19 - 00:15:54:18
Unknown
And if you're going to electrify, if you're going to put more strain on the electricity network by transport, by moving away from petrol and diesel to electricity for all your vehicles as well, then there's an additional, demand of almost 160GW of energy. So they say, right. We live in a new industrial revolution. It's going to be driven by solar batteries and EVs.

00:15:54:18 - 00:16:19:02
Unknown
Right. With now the question is, where is that energy going to come from? Right. We're not going to build, you know, we don't want to build new power station because it's expensive, Capitally expensive. And the last power station we tried to build, I was one of the, the first architect, energy, architect for Hinkley Point C, the nuclear power station.

00:16:19:04 - 00:16:49:18
Unknown
It's, it's about ten years, sorry, 7 to 8 years late. And and we have overspent by easily 100% more. So that so so the solution is around democratizing energy, right, of if if everybody is going to have not everybody but majority of them, want to have electric cars, hopefully a lot of them have solar panels and then batteries are becoming are going to be a thing.

00:16:49:18 - 00:17:13:16
Unknown
Right. Like, storage batteries where you're storing electricity in your garage or it doesn't take a lot of space. And then imagine. Right. So you come in, you, you live in the morning in your electric car. You know, the sun is shining. You you store that because you're not at home. The the the the solar panel stores that energy into the battery.

00:17:13:18 - 00:17:40:01
Unknown
When you come back home at 5 or 6:00, obviously, the grid is, congested. So if you do want a charge, then you connect your charger and you can take the energy from the battery. Right. Or if you have enough charge in your battery of your car, you can even give back the energy to the grid. And and obviously a lot of technological advancement is happening and not everything is ready.

00:17:40:01 - 00:18:06:21
Unknown
But that's what we are. We are we are building a world where bidirectional charging can happen, where you can, then overnight, when it comes to night, there are cheaper tariff. You can then top up your car, you can prop up your battery and you can store that energy for the next day. So so imagine now. Yeah, a thousand, 100,000, a million consumers start doing this.

00:18:06:23 - 00:18:44:16
Unknown
Then what? What has happened? You built like a virtual power plant without that capital investment of billions and billions of pounds to build a power station. And you can then, in a smarter grid, give energy or take energy based on the demand of the grid and based on the economic factors of the grid, right. Where the grid will be like, okay, I'm willing to pay a consumer, £0.50 a kilowatt, which would be way cheaper than trying to turn on a diesel generator or, or an oil generator to, to to give the energy.

00:18:44:16 - 00:19:15:02
Unknown
So, this is the mission we are on as, as, as the sort of electricity mission. We're not that we not fully there yet, but we definitely on our way. It's a beautiful, ambitious vision for future. And I'm a big proponent of solar. I think solar is is the groundbreaking free energy coming all the time. And I think which is the newest advancement in solar panels development technologies.

00:19:15:04 - 00:19:41:18
Unknown
You don't even need to have sun in the sky to get the solar energy. You can basically photons coming in all the time. You just need to capture them the best way possible. Right? Clouds, sun store doesn't matter. Photons coming in and the and I think the way I'm seeing this, there is not going to be a problem with solar capture because solar panels are advancing exponentially.

00:19:41:18 - 00:20:11:10
Unknown
The technology it's all about now to your point, is a very smart system in place that connect all the electric, in this case, vehicles, to a system and proactively, basically do trading, send back to grid, get from the grid. And I could see that every every house in the UK, in Europe turned into zero point ritual power plants.

00:20:11:12 - 00:20:45:15
Unknown
And consumers are going to, most likely when the demand is high, makes a decent amount of money out of their virtual power plant as well. Is that correct? Exactly, exactly. So, absolutely. I mean, I mean, if you look at solar, right, even countries like China and India are installing record amount of capacity, like, China did 360 gigawatt India, about 300 gigawatt, and and very soon, I mean, that's how they're going to achieve net zero, right?

00:20:45:17 - 00:21:10:14
Unknown
The the whole idea of net zero is that we can, we can supply the country's demand with renewable, renewable generation. But but a lot of advancement is having in battery solution. But one thing but one, one problem with electricity is that unlike gas, where you can store the gas quite easily, electricity storage, only recently has become possible through batteries.

00:21:10:16 - 00:21:36:09
Unknown
And again, it's still not it's still very it's very expensive to store electricity, but the, the the the assumption is that the battery cost will, will reduce year on year. We've already seen a price reduction in the battery cost, which means that the same battery which goes on an electric car or in your garage will get cheaper and cheaper.

00:21:36:11 - 00:22:04:07
Unknown
And and then an amazing advancements are happening. But companies like us, right. We're a software company like we all our data sets on the cloud. We are dependent on these assets that A they're smart. That means we can control that asset remotely. So today we we can control an asset, you know, if it's in London or if it's in Berlin or if it's in China or if it's in Sydney.

00:22:04:09 - 00:22:26:10
Unknown
And, and we can using data intelligence, a data from the consumer that. Okay. What do you want it to. I can connect to your calendar to say, okay, Barack, when is he going? What does this calendar looks like for the week? And people are very organized. Obviously, the early adopters are are professional people of quite organized.

00:22:26:10 - 00:22:52:12
Unknown
And so we did a project where we read the data and, and, and understood the pattern and develop a plan for that consumer, or a business. Right. That okay, this is how you should charge. You're going to charge three times a week. You're going to charge from this time to this time. You're going to if you do that, you save X amount of money and you can optimize your solar.

00:22:52:14 - 00:23:16:11
Unknown
And at the same time, there are opportunities where you can, not charge and get paid. And, hopefully in the future you can set the energy at this price and make money. So there's a whole, gamut of opportunities and there's no way Bharat like, a consumer or a business will be able to manage all of that.

00:23:16:11 - 00:23:36:00
Unknown
And so then they'll be like, okay, if I can have a product which can do that, I'm happy to pay a subscription. Right. And if you can manage that as well. And, and we are quite sure that whatever money we take you from a subscription, we'll be able to save you five, six or hopefully ten times more.

00:23:36:02 - 00:24:10:05
Unknown
And then it becomes a no brainer, like, okay, well, if I'm paying you £5 and if I can make 50 pounds savings, then I'll no. And and again, we again, we're not there yet. But this is the sort of really vision that we want to be in a position where we will be able to, subscribe consumers, we we we we we signed up, a major fleet operator because they're the use cases that, I've got, I've got ten vans and I've only got five charger.

00:24:10:10 - 00:24:37:10
Unknown
Right. Because I can't put more charges because I don't have the electricity infrastructure. So. So, this is where I comes in, right? And again, we are it's a live project, so I can't disclose a lot of the names, but we are looking at how can we optimize. We are saying to the business that, okay, don't worry, do not put more charges or or do not apply for a grid infrastructure upgrade.

00:24:37:10 - 00:25:05:15
Unknown
Do you know, in Europe it's so expensive to upgrade your infrastructure for? For a 100 kVA line it cost about 100,000 pound and that's similar across Germany and other countries. So it's about how can the software allow you to live within your means, right. And and it has proven yes, you can because if you have 1010 vans and if we connect to the scheduling, system.

00:25:05:21 - 00:25:51:06
Unknown
So we know that but two things is important. What is the battery state when the van comes in to the depot and what time the van needs to leave for, for I think this is like a delivery job. Right. Or what time does the driver starts to shift and how many miles is that van going to cover. And and using that data, we are able to then spec out a schedule pattern to the, to the fleet operator to say that, okay, you can charge, this this van from, from, from, from 11 p.m. to 4 a.m. and then you can charge this van from, right.

00:25:51:08 - 00:26:12:00
Unknown
Because this this this van is, is low in battery and it's going out the furthest tomorrow. Right? So if it's if it's coming at a 10% battery, but it needs to do 101 hundred miles, then it needs a full battery. So we, we, we then this needs to be on a priority lane. And then there's a priority base speed is allocated.

00:26:12:00 - 00:26:38:04
Unknown
So so in that way you know how how software an I can can really and the business case is that where we were able to reduce about, we were able to save a CapEx of 65,000 pound on grid operate cost and an operational saving of over 30 to 40,000 pounds on electricity bills. Yeah, on a yearly or annual basis to massive, massive to again.

00:26:38:06 - 00:27:00:19
Unknown
And this is just the tip, right. Because and more machine learning can happen around, we can even get into the nitty gritty detail around the weather data, right? That, is it because sometimes if it's rainy or if it's really, really cold, obviously it consumes more battery. So on days like that, we need to charge more.

00:27:00:21 - 00:27:24:11
Unknown
But if it's actually very pleasant weather, then and or if the driver is going to take a motorway or is he going to take a road, or is he going to take a big road? And that matters as well. And and I think a lot of models can help us optimize even a route, give them a, a more benefit, a more optimized route to take.

00:27:24:13 - 00:28:03:08
Unknown
So, so you could do route optimization that this is what your driver route should be. And you can dispatch that to his satnav or to his Google Maps so that he, he just simply follow it. I mean, that's the role of technology, right? The role of technology is to simplify life is to, take away complex decisions and, and, and, and instill trust where, a driver is able to just not worry about it and just follow the direction with, with to an assumption that, okay, it will save me money, it will save me time, and I'll get my job done.

00:28:03:10 - 00:28:46:02
Unknown
Wow. So one question that I have maybe two questions at the same time. If you put if you put your product hat on. So you your role as a founder is to be visionary, but at the same time you need to execute on that vision and bring it to life to different skill set. I would say. How do you go about sort of like understand the vision and its core DNA components and bring it back on to the product roadmap and charting your path towards that vision, like, how do you go about executing all of that?

00:28:46:04 - 00:29:08:04
Unknown
First question? Follow up would be to realize such a vision, you probably need to have a massive machine learning team to be able or combination of or machine learning. I mean, I you don't touch so much because you pull it from the lens, but the machine learning team must be playing a massive role in executing on this vision.

00:29:08:06 - 00:29:26:03
Unknown
How does your team formation look like, and what do you predict is it you do have to hire a lot more folks to be able to execute on this or like not maybe not. Maybe you don't need that many folks because of AI and all this stuff that you can do to maybe nitty gritty of the execution.

00:29:26:07 - 00:29:52:11
Unknown
I'm really interested in learning more. Yeah, yeah. No, absolutely. Listen up. A great vision does not make into a great a great business or a great product because, you know, people have some great ideas in the world where, you know, a Jeff Bezos is amazing, is, you know, he says, you know, with vision, you know, vision without, a plan is just, just, just useless.

00:29:52:11 - 00:30:21:14
Unknown
Right? So in any, any startup or skill or execution risk is one of the biggest challenge, right? It's it's about how can you turn a vision into reality. And you need with the right strategy team and timing. Obviously as a founder, you're the driving force in navigating these execution risk. But also you need to hire smartly right in once early money has come in which you've raised.

00:30:21:18 - 00:30:46:02
Unknown
Why are you raising investment money that okay, I need a team who can help me execute because, I mean, and it's generally founders dilemma. They end up trying to do too much. They're trying to do everything and and not believe in the team. So I learned that, I mean, I kind of learned it in the hard way, right?

00:30:46:02 - 00:31:17:22
Unknown
I, I it's a natural tendency for, for a founder to try to get involved in everything and try to, And this is where, again, Steve Jobs, one of my great mentor, in the sense he said that you you don't you don't hire smart people and tell them what to do. So, so so we I've managed to finally hire a great team where they tell and they tell me what to do, and, and how to get to the vision, how to achieve the vision.

00:31:18:02 - 00:31:42:10
Unknown
So. So, yeah. It's it's it's, it's a, it's a, it's a really, really important for the management team to be on top of the execution risk is massive because because when you're delivering a product so many elements comes into play, so many external factors, so many blockers, and most of them are people related, are process related.

00:31:42:12 - 00:32:09:05
Unknown
Then then the actual if you look at if you would actually code related, right? I mean, the easiest, the easiest part is is actually coding sometimes, you know, in all of this, what's the hardest part is what to code. Right? And, you know, my CEO, he is favorite line. Right. It's I think what to code is more important or more, then and then how to code, thing you have a you into our team.

00:32:09:05 - 00:32:31:03
Unknown
So when we are still, again, I wouldn't come in here and, bullshit in a way that, we have solved everything, and we are the epitome of AI. In that sense, we just we are we are early days for us as well as we are looking, looking into a lot of, lot of, open source data, which are really big.

00:32:31:05 - 00:32:52:22
Unknown
What are the use cases and how we can really inherit sort of AI in the sense, and, and, and, you know, starting with we, we, you know, we, we go online with a support from a for me, support is fundamental for a business. Right. If, if you could have a great product but but really for support then your product is poor right.

00:32:53:02 - 00:33:14:10
Unknown
And especially for a product like us, because we are a utility app. Because, you know, if somebody is trying to charge their car at midnight, and if it doesn't work, then that could be a really stressful scenario for that driver because he's like, oh God, I can't get to work because you're paralyzed. Because if your car does not have charge you, you you can't even get to work.

00:33:14:10 - 00:33:47:04
Unknown
So so we, we implemented like chat bots, system because there's no way I mean, we don't have human during out of hours then. Okay. Can an AI chat bot help troubleshoot the scenario and and give them, listen to their problem and find a YouTube video or tutorial or something to, to to help that driver at that time when, when nobody's around and and and yeah we we've seen some great results already where you know we've been able to solve even viable.

00:33:47:08 - 00:34:13:12
Unknown
If we can solve 70% of the problem, then you've solved seven out of ten people's misery at at a time when somebody's human can't be around. And it also, I feel tech companies should keep in mind the cost factor, right? No matter how much revenue generating or how much, money or fundraising. I mean, I'm a very commercially driven, CEO as well, right?

00:34:13:12 - 00:34:41:18
Unknown
I want to make sure that the cost of serve is in check. And then I think, again, technology is there for a lot of, you know, lot of lot of teams to sort of really grasp in a way where how technology can help reduce the cost to. So, right. And if an AI chatbot can solve a problem, why would a human right and, and, and such as that.

00:34:41:18 - 00:35:30:09
Unknown
So it's really, really important that, and I'm really excited about what, what else development can happen that can help us to reduce our cost. It is very important from the, product, design and UX perspective. I would love to like, get your, thoughts on the vision for such applications. Basically, given that there is going to be a massive machine learning, capabilities basically deployed, to help predict the routs, understand the calendar schedules, whatever the case may be, and then give the right information and instruction to the fleet operator or anyone else that has to do the charging.

00:35:30:13 - 00:36:06:13
Unknown
How in your vision would how far you are prepared to go when it comes to, making decisions autonomous from the operator. So in a sense that would you see a future that based on what the machine learning output is, there are certain action to be made. And most of this action going to be executed without having the operator say in it or approval in it, like what would be the right combination?

00:36:06:14 - 00:36:31:04
Unknown
And when it comes to offering authority and independence to the to the operator, to the user to take actions and which areas there are going to be some urgent situation that you need to take action. Right. And you cannot really depend on the operator to be there and to be available and can take the action. So when it's a very tough UX challenge to solve, how do you see it?

00:36:31:06 - 00:37:02:14
Unknown
I think the importance of, UX and the customer journey is so fundamental. Again, a great quote from my mentor. Again, just Steve Jobs. You know, I think when, when, when they when he was building Apple, sort of the iPhone. Right. And he was so focused on the user experience, he was like, and he went against the norm when, when BlackBerrys were so popular and you had this keep at it was like, no, scrap the keypad.

00:37:02:16 - 00:37:30:19
Unknown
I want this touchless because he was thinking about a 670 year old man to, to to to a ten year old, like, I need to build a product, which is so simple, so easy. And and he was laser focused on the user experience, the simplicity and, and that's I think that's the great lesson, right. Because sometimes in tech companies they start with the tech.

00:37:30:21 - 00:37:58:16
Unknown
Oh, this is the tech I want to do. And then then think about the customer experience. I mean, so even that at electric market like we, we you know, we we try to bring the customer experience at the foray. Right. And we have this journey what we, what we tell our manufacturers, you know, people who develop chargers is that we want to develop, solution, which is from factory to the grid.

00:37:58:19 - 00:38:25:10
Unknown
So how your product can be taken from the factory when it gets shipped, the QR code, the inventory module to it get to, to, and, an electrical installer who opens the box can scan QR code. We have and we have an app called install on, which is really intuitive, click of the kind of five screens you are able to install and commission that charger.

00:38:25:12 - 00:38:43:19
Unknown
Then how that hand over happens between the installer to the driver. An automated email gets sent out and the driver is a busy driver. Right. We we are all working from home or in a meeting. I can just do it at my own time. I get all the instruction from the installer who doesn't have to wait for me, right?

00:38:43:19 - 00:39:09:02
Unknown
He could be waiting here downstairs while my meeting finish. He's lost time. He got to go to another job. So? So he can send all the command instruction. Anyway, transaction is all. All all electronic anyway, so he might have been paid already. So he's off. And then the driver then, again follows the instruction, sets the account and he's ready to go and, and then on.

00:39:09:02 - 00:39:45:11
Unknown
So I feel, you know, when you start with the customer experience and then define those use cases, more often than not you find technology to to technology stack to, to to to get you to deliver that vision and never start with the technology. Start with the problem, start with the customer experience. And and yeah, I mean, in terms of the detail of machine learning models, like I said, we are still, exploring a lot of that, and we've got some terrific use cases, in what we do.

00:39:45:11 - 00:40:17:08
Unknown
Right. And we got a great roadmap this year to, to, to to deploy various machine learning models. And, and really, really instill AI, the, the way we want to really transform the product. Speaking of 2025 and, yeah, I hear so I'm curious whether you have some announcement to make, what's cooking, what's going to be released soon or have released that, the audience needs to know about?

00:40:17:08 - 00:40:44:07
Unknown
May we look into it? I reckon a good portion of the audience may have electric cars and vehicles, so. Hope so. So they might be interested to see what would be the future of electric consumptions. Yeah, yeah, I know. Listen, anybody obviously we we, we via we may we will have quite focused in the UK market but we've now signed some contracts which can help us enter.

00:40:44:07 - 00:41:15:17
Unknown
I know your podcast you cover, you've got two audience Europe wide and us as well. So we are we're going to be in Germany and in Benelux region this year with our partners Vestal who manufactures these chargers. And then we also, looking to launch in California, the Tesla Fornia, as they call it, that, that the state of electric cars in the midst of a lot of, interesting news from the new, new President Trump.

00:41:15:19 - 00:41:43:02
Unknown
So, so, yeah, in terms of the product, if you're a home, home, home, home consumer, we'll be launching, this week, restarting, this zero program, which means drivers can, basically, subscribe and take instruction from the grid directly and, and, and, and potentially get rewarded. So this is, a move to put money back in the pocket.

00:41:43:04 - 00:42:12:15
Unknown
And secondly, we're going to be very much focused on the B2B side because we believe that, you know, the, the, the, the electric, the electrification of the network needs to start with the, with the bigger vehicles. So we are we signed up a contract there, we are going to look at bus charging. So we are launching our own impact platform, which is electric miles platform for transforming cleaner technology.

00:42:12:20 - 00:42:54:22
Unknown
You know, that's where it stands for a bit of a mouthful, but impact, in short, is a it's a it's a web based platform where, where if you're an operator or if you're a manufacturer, if you're a reseller, you're able to register and basically buy, SAS licenses, which can go on your charger, which can be a, which will allow you to, operate a charger on the network, collect the revenue from that network, and basically earn money from, from, from, from doing that business, but also, taking away pains around managing the inventory inventory and then managing the installer reward program.

00:42:55:00 - 00:43:28:22
Unknown
A lot of that, and also a fleet module where, you know, just that use case I talked about of how how a business side with, with ten charge with five charges and ten cars, how can they manage, they can potentially use our fleet modules to do that. So lots happening. Really excited. This this year is going to be and here you know hopefully GM can truly scale and and and and make this net zero ambition possible for, for for companies and countries around the world.

00:43:28:22 - 00:43:54:17
Unknown
Yeah. We owe it to future generation. I think if we hand over, a smart system to our kids and kids of kids, I think they're going to benefit from it greatly. And I really don't know how to get around. Achieving all these milestones. I think there are really tough challenges to solve. And, yeah, kudos to your perseverance.

00:43:54:17 - 00:44:26:21
Unknown
And, B2B sector is going to be massive. The cost saving and that you could bring to every operation is going to be massive. And is it is electric miles basically vehicle agnostic Tesla be anything you want to take. Vehicle agnostic, supplier agnostic. We just focused on driver at home or driver and business. We are focused on human and and agnostic on on everything else.

00:44:26:23 - 00:44:46:04
Unknown
I think perseverance. Yeah, I know you made that point earlier as well in, in business and I'm sure a lot of, lot of business owners might be listening to this and they'll, they will agree with me that, you know, in business, rarely things go right. Eight out of ten times things will go wrong.

00:44:46:04 - 00:45:12:13
Unknown
And, I mean, we had our own fair share of, you know, things were really up and down and. Yeah, I think what is really, really important is to believe in what you're doing. Right. And, and if you're if and pivot right, pivoting is so important. Don't just believe blindly. Don't look at the data and look at what your customers are telling you.

00:45:12:13 - 00:45:36:09
Unknown
And and pivot. We've pivoted so many times, and until you get it right, keep pivoting with that perseverance. And you have to be optimistic. You know why entrepreneurs succeed? Because they have this optimism bias all the time. They they they know they can make it because without optimism you won't be able to sleep. And if you can't sleep, you can't perform.

00:45:36:11 - 00:46:02:06
Unknown
So so it's a it's a don't lose your sleep. Go go go go to bed with a belief that next day will be better than today. And, more often than not, it would be worse. But then you can go to go and say, okay, this day wasn't good, maybe next day would be better than today. But I think, it's it's really it's a driving force that separates success from failure.

00:46:02:06 - 00:46:29:04
Unknown
Right? Everybody works hard. I mean, working hard is not enough. Have you got that extra punch? You know, that is pushing forward despite setbacks, challenges, uncertainty. We live in a very, very uncertain world. Right. Politically and and economically, anything can happen. But, but you have things you can't control. Don't worry about it. You know, I don't know what.

00:46:29:04 - 00:46:57:06
Unknown
Is Trump going nuts here tomorrow? Nobody knows. Right. And but yeah, he can move markets and but things that are in your control is, is obviously your product, your, your work, your team and what we do and and just just focus on that and everything else is transient. Everything is momentary. You know, I feel that's what life is.

00:46:57:07 - 00:47:23:06
Unknown
I have a saying that when in doubt, create. So that's my like recommendation to entrepreneurs. And I really couldn't find a better closing to conclude this conversation. Aaron, thanks a lot for being on the podcast and kudos to you. It's it's really inspiring for me to talk to folks like you that are in the trenches, the humble people that are not on LinkedIn talking loud and but they move mountains.

00:47:23:06 - 00:47:37:18
Unknown
Thanks a the. Thank you for listening to UX for AI. Join us next week for more insightful conversations about the impact of Artificial Intelligence in development, design, and user experience.