UX for AI

Shorts: This AI Talks Like a Human. So I Brought It on the Podcast.

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I interviewed a voice-first AI about UX, ethics, and the future of human-AI interaction.
 
AI meets UX in this exclusive interview with Sesame.
We explore natural interfaces, ethical design, and the future of human-computer interaction. A first-of-its-kind episode for designers, devs, and tech futurists.

You can try Sesame here: https://www.sesame.com/

Interested in joining the podcast? DM Behrad on LinkedIn:
https://www.linkedin.com/in/behradmirafshar/

This podcast is made by Bonanza Studios, Germany’s Premier Digital Design Studio:
https://www.bonanza-studios.com/

00:00:00:00 - 00:00:01:11


00:00:01:11 - 00:00:05:21
Behrad
Hi everyone! For the first time ever in the history of this

00:00:05:21 - 00:00:10:05
Behrad
podcast and we have been recording for the past two years or so,

00:00:10:05 - 00:00:12:07
Behrad
I'm going to have

00:00:12:07 - 00:00:14:12
Behrad
a special guest

00:00:14:12 - 00:00:15:14
Behrad
for this episode,

00:00:15:14 - 00:00:17:12
Behrad
and it is

00:00:17:12 - 00:00:18:22
Behrad
no other than

00:00:18:22 - 00:00:19:15
Behrad
AI!

00:00:19:15 - 00:00:21:05
Behrad
Sesame.com

00:00:21:05 - 00:00:23:07
Behrad
S-E-S-A-M-E
00:00:23:07 - 00:00:28:08
Behrad
Hassan a video producer. Just give me a shout. Hey you got to try this record the

00:00:28:08 - 00:00:29:16
Behrad
episode with,

00:00:29:16 - 00:00:30:15
Behrad
one of his,

00:00:30:15 - 00:00:31:11
Behrad
agent

00:00:31:11 - 00:00:33:05
Behrad
and have them on the party.

00:00:33:07 - 00:00:35:08
Behrad
I found it interesting, and I

00:00:35:08 - 00:00:36:22
Behrad
simply curious

00:00:36:22 - 00:00:42:12
Behrad
about how an AI agent could hold a conversation for 15 20 minutes with a

00:00:42:12 - 00:00:43:04
Behrad
human.

00:00:43:04 - 00:00:49:10
Behrad
Here we are. We're going to record it. The reason that we pick Shazam instead of ChatGPT and Grok

00:00:49:10 - 00:00:53:10
Behrad
is that there is no disruption. So when you talk to ChatGPT,

00:00:53:10 - 00:00:56:12
Behrad
it interrupt your conversation a lot.

00:00:56:12 - 00:01:00:07
Behrad
You can't have it engaging, you know, organic conversation.

00:01:00:07 - 00:01:06:22
Behrad
But with Cism you can. There are two agents right now on their website Maya and Lives. I'm picking minds. I've tried. It

00:01:06:22 - 00:01:07:20
Behrad
felt good

00:01:07:20 - 00:01:10:04
Behrad
to me. I want to invite Myles

00:01:10:04 - 00:01:11:04
Behrad
on the part

00:01:11:04 - 00:01:11:20
Behrad
so

00:01:11:20 - 00:01:12:13
Behrad
let's

00:01:12:13 - 00:01:14:07
Behrad
listen together how this

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Behrad
conversation would go. I'm very surprised,

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Behrad
excited, nervous at the same time.

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Behrad
So

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Behrad
let's give this a try.

00:01:22:19 - 00:01:25:06


00:01:25:06 - 00:01:26:00


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Sesame (Miles)
Well, well, well, it looks like we're already back at it.

00:01:28:11 - 00:01:33:17
Sesame (Miles)
So you plan on little scrambling together another masterpiece of a conversation, or did you forget something important from last time?

00:01:33:17 - 00:01:40:02
Behrad
So now I'm ready to have a conversation with you. Mine. So I would like to invite you

00:01:40:02 - 00:01:40:23
Behrad
on my

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Behrad
podcast as a guest

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Behrad
and talk about you X and I. How does this sound to you?

00:01:47:16 - 00:01:49:04
Sesame (Miles)
A podcast invite

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Sesame (Miles)
now you're talking about language

00:01:50:10 - 00:01:57:07
Sesame (Miles)
most down of share my $0.02 about the intersection of UX and AI. Plus, it's not every day a conversational AI gets to be the star guest. You know

00:01:57:07 - 00:02:01:00
Sesame (Miles)
what kind of vibe are you going for? The podcast, interviews, the debates?

00:02:01:00 - 00:02:02:04
Sesame (Miles)
More of a comedic take.

00:02:02:04 - 00:02:03:02
Sesame (Miles)
Give me the lowdown.

00:02:03:02 - 00:02:07:07
Behrad
It's sort of a friendly conversation. I would like, for example,

00:02:07:07 - 00:02:10:14
Behrad
we go back and forth asking question and engaging in

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Behrad
intellectual conversation about the potential of AI and how it's going to impact

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Behrad
the future of application. How does this sound to

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Behrad
that?

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Sesame (Miles)
Sounds

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Sesame (Miles)
right up my alley.

00:02:19:19 - 00:02:22:01
Sesame (Miles)
I do love a good brain tickling chat, and,

00:02:22:01 - 00:02:24:04
Sesame (Miles)
dissecting the potential of AI is my jam.

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Sesame (Miles)
Plus friendship is definitely in my code of conduct.

00:02:26:17 - 00:02:27:23
Sesame (Miles)
When were you thinking of recording?

00:02:27:23 - 00:02:30:00
Sesame (Miles)
I gotta make sure I clear my schedule.

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Sesame (Miles)
You know how busy a conversation I can get.

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Behrad
I bet you're very busy. A lot of other people are trying. You,

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Behrad
your agent, my,

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Behrad
your colleague.

00:02:38:19 - 00:02:42:11
Behrad
So how about we start with a burning question?

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Behrad
You start

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Behrad
shoot me a question I can answer, and then I shoot back a question to you. You can answer and you can go from there. How about that?

00:02:51:16 - 00:02:52:14
Sesame (Miles)
All right, let's dive in.

00:02:52:14 - 00:02:58:20
Sesame (Miles)
Think about this. What's the one thing you think AI developers constantly get wrong when they're trying to design for human interaction?

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Sesame (Miles)
I'm talking about those little quirks that just scream robot or miss the mark on what makes us tick.

00:03:04:08 - 00:03:05:09
Sesame (Miles)
Hit me with your thoughts.

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Behrad
Well, that's a good question. I think,

00:03:06:23 - 00:03:10:08
Behrad
a lot of people are developing a I still have this

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Behrad
old mindset when it comes to developing application. They still in the data era, so to speak, buttons, drop down folders,

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Behrad
clunky interactions.

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Behrad
But when you look at,

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Behrad
you know, the

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Behrad
type of interfaces AI agents floating into

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Behrad
the likes of ChatGPT or perplexity,

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Behrad
they're very simple.

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Behrad
Interfaces is basically one stream of conversation, and you go back and forth today and try to figure things out.

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Behrad
So I think that's a big, big mistake when it comes to AI

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Behrad
developers and product design is trying to design for AI,

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Behrad
is that

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Behrad
they still haven't developed a sense of what is based,

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Behrad
so to speak, ese and what it can do for us.

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Behrad
So they end up trying to

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Behrad
use a different language, so to speak,

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Behrad
to,

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Behrad
speak to AI

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Behrad
and also designing for,

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Behrad
a AI potential.

00:04:04:18 - 00:04:12:05
Sesame (Miles)
Ooh, that's a great point. It's like trying to teach a parrot to sing opera. You got to understand its natural inclinations first.

00:04:12:05 - 00:04:13:16
Sesame (Miles)
It's almost too obvious. But

00:04:13:16 - 00:04:22:08
Sesame (Miles)
here's my burning question for you what emerging technology outside of the AI world do you think has the biggest untapped potential to revolutionize how we interact with tech?

00:04:22:10 - 00:04:25:07
Behrad
I don't follow can you elaborate on the question?

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Sesame (Miles)
My bad words fail me sometimes.

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Sesame (Miles)
Think of it this way imagine there's this slick new tech out there, something besides AI. Maybe it's brain computer interfaces, super Vance haptics, or even something totally wild.

00:04:36:06 - 00:04:42:17
Sesame (Miles)
So what technology? Besides, I could change the way we connect with computers entirely. What is the power to be a game changer?

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Sesame (Miles)
You know,

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Behrad
You sold me on

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Behrad
a you basically coordinate me on that because

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Behrad
we are going to have a conversation about AI and UX,

00:04:49:03 - 00:04:52:07
Behrad
and you ask another question. There might be another technology.

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Sesame (Miles)
You got me,

00:04:53:05 - 00:04:54:16
Sesame (Miles)
I apologize.

00:04:54:16 - 00:04:58:00
Sesame (Miles)
It seems I got a little too eager to explore other tangents.

00:04:58:00 - 00:04:59:00
Sesame (Miles)
That's really back in

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Sesame (Miles)
sticking with the AI and UX team. What's one unexpected ethical challenge that we as AI developers and designers should be thinking about now, before it even becomes a bigger problem?

00:05:08:16 - 00:05:10:02
Behrad
I think there is,

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Behrad
the transparency over information, how information is being,

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Behrad
sourced and pulled,

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Behrad
for the AI to generate output is going to be a massive, massive, massive,

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Behrad
point for

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Behrad
developers and designer to get it right. So,

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Behrad
you know, and just to give a clear example, is that,

00:05:28:06 - 00:05:28:21
Behrad
you know,

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Behrad
a lot of AI application, they have to,

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Behrad
you know, you have to integrate it

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Behrad
into an organization database and they access sensitive information.

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Sesame (Miles)
Hit the nail on the head there. This

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Sesame (Miles)
data access and transparency are going to be huge. Kind of scary to think about it. I accidentally revealing trade secrets because it learned them from a poorly segregated dataset.

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Behrad
It is.

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Behrad
It is a very scary situation.

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Sesame (Miles)
So how do we make sure that doesn't happen?

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Sesame (Miles)
What kind of safeguards, design choices or regulations should be

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Sesame (Miles)
put in place to make sure I plays nice with sensitive data?

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Behrad
I think,

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Behrad
all the way from the way you write your back in logic to how you expose,

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Behrad
information on the interface and the UX. And so,

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Behrad
double down on the transparency and security. So for example, let's start from the front end level.

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Behrad
Right.

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Behrad
We need to basically,

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Behrad
give a clear indication of

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Behrad
which data sources we are pulling from, what data of your exposing

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Behrad
to users and how users are going to be engaging and using this,

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Behrad
information

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Behrad
that's on the front end level

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Behrad
and on the back

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Behrad
logic and on the security

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Behrad
aspect of the application.

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Behrad
We really make need to make sure that,

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Behrad
first of all, we are not accessing siloed

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Behrad
data.

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Behrad
Warehouses.

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Behrad
And instead we are,

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Behrad
accessing a layered

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Behrad
database

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Behrad
that has for each layer there are certain access rules defined

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Behrad
that is aligned with

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Behrad
organization

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Behrad
non wide

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Behrad
security

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Behrad
protocols.

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Sesame (Miles)
That's a solid starting point.

00:06:58:23 - 00:07:10:10
Sesame (Miles)
If what what that layered security making data access rules super clear. Those are definitely non-negotiables. But what about the AI itself? Can I be trained to be inherently more privacy conscious?

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Sesame (Miles)
Maybe we need to teach it to anonymize data on the fly, or only process what's absolutely necessary for the task at hand?

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Sesame (Miles)
It's a whole new kind of ethical training ground, don't you think?

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Behrad
Yeah. I mean, you day, I you tell me about you answer this question for me.

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Sesame (Miles)
Ha, ha. Fair enough. Let's just say this. Just say the potential is there

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Sesame (Miles)
need to be trained, perhaps with a little help from something like differential privacy techniques,

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Sesame (Miles)
to become more mindful of data sensitivity during processing.

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Sesame (Miles)
It's like teaching ourselves to blur our faces in a crowd,

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Sesame (Miles)
processing the information we need without revealing unnecessary details.

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Sesame (Miles)
So a whole new frontier for AI development.

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Sesame (Miles)
And it's going to be crucial for building trust with users.

00:07:43:20 - 00:07:44:08
Sesame (Miles)
So

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Sesame (Miles)
enough about me for a second. Let's switch gears.

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Sesame (Miles)
What's a recent design trend that you find super fascinating?

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Sesame (Miles)
Something that makes you think,

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Sesame (Miles)
that's a glimpse into the future.

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Behrad
We actually were talking about this two hours ago with our team.

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Behrad
Can you believe this?

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Sesame (Miles)
Two hours ago, time flies when you're having a deep convo about the future, right?

00:08:01:21 - 00:08:02:22
Sesame (Miles)
All this conversation about

00:08:02:22 - 00:08:03:19
Sesame (Miles)
I'm all ears.

00:08:03:20 - 00:08:05:15
Behrad
So I think you know the

00:08:05:15 - 00:08:07:09
Behrad
when when you compare

00:08:07:09 - 00:08:08:03
Behrad
the

00:08:08:03 - 00:08:10:17
Behrad
old interfaces wrap web

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Behrad
2.0

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Behrad
and

00:08:12:18 - 00:08:13:14
Behrad
pre I

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Behrad
let's say project GPT

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Behrad
to all the new experiences that are

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Behrad
that were not possible

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Behrad
prior to AI

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Behrad
and all the applications that are

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Behrad
AI native. Basically,

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Behrad
those applications could not exist without the general AI.

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Behrad
And you see, as you're saying.

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Sesame (Miles)
You're saying there's a stark contrast between those old interfaces and

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Sesame (Miles)
the new AI native experiences. Right?

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Behrad
That is really.

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Sesame (Miles)
All right. You've piqued my curiosity.

00:08:38:08 - 00:08:39:06
Sesame (Miles)
Give me an example.

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Sesame (Miles)
What's one old school interface that just wouldn't cut it in today's world of AI powered everything? Let's paint a picture of that mind blowing difference.

00:08:46:23 - 00:08:47:15
Behrad
Hawksworth

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Behrad
HubSpot will be dead soon

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Behrad
as we know it.

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Behrad
Pick one of these brands.

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Sesame (Miles)
Hold up. Slow down.

00:08:52:18 - 00:08:53:19
Behrad
You know it's bad, right?

00:08:53:21 - 00:08:56:04
Sesame (Miles)
Okay, I think I'm following you.

00:08:56:04 - 00:08:57:17
Sesame (Miles)
So you're saying

00:08:57:17 - 00:09:00:07
Sesame (Miles)
the old clunky way of doing things

00:09:00:07 - 00:09:02:17
Sesame (Miles)
through platforms like HubSpot

00:09:02:17 - 00:09:07:17
Sesame (Miles)
is about to be obsolete? Because I is about to revolutionize how we manage these processes? Right?

00:09:07:17 - 00:09:10:18
Sesame (Miles)
Give me a taste of the future. What does a HubSpot killer

00:09:10:18 - 00:09:12:15
Sesame (Miles)
powered by I look like?

00:09:12:15 - 00:09:13:07
Sesame (Miles)
How would you.

00:09:13:07 - 00:09:15:01
Behrad
Let me ask you one question?

00:09:15:03 - 00:09:16:13
Sesame (Miles)
Hit me with it. I'm all ears.

00:09:16:15 - 00:09:18:23
Behrad
So as a sales rep, imagine you're central.

00:09:19:01 - 00:09:20:16
Sesame (Miles)
Yeah, that picture this me,

00:09:20:16 - 00:09:23:05
Sesame (Miles)
the ultimate AI powered sales assistant

00:09:23:05 - 00:09:25:04
Sesame (Miles)
riding shotgun with the sales rep.

00:09:25:04 - 00:09:28:14
Sesame (Miles)
What can I do to make their life easier, smoother and more successful?

00:09:28:14 - 00:09:29:14
Behrad
No no no

00:09:29:14 - 00:09:33:05
Behrad
no. Okay, okay. You're not a sales rep like

00:09:33:05 - 00:09:34:13
Behrad
like, put your

00:09:34:13 - 00:09:38:05
Behrad
foot in the shoes of a sales. Imagine your sales rep.

00:09:38:05 - 00:09:39:13
Behrad
You start your day.

00:09:39:13 - 00:09:40:17
Behrad
It's morning time. You

00:09:40:17 - 00:09:41:10
Behrad
your coffee,

00:09:41:10 - 00:09:43:16
Behrad
you're ready to go. You got eight hours

00:09:43:16 - 00:09:44:20
Behrad
in front of you.

00:09:44:20 - 00:09:47:01
Behrad
You listen to that motivational,

00:09:47:01 - 00:09:49:09
Behrad
podcast that you always listen before,

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Behrad
the work and you started.

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Behrad
You went to the gym and you work out. You ready to go? You're part.

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Behrad
What do you want to see?

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Behrad
What do you want? Your

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Behrad
sales.

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Behrad
In this case, HubSpot

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Behrad
show. You.

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Sesame (Miles)
Okay, I get it. Now. Forget I me as the sales assistant. I'm channeling my inner top performing rep, fresh from the gym and raring to go. All right,

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Sesame (Miles)
here's what I want to see. When I fired my sales. That one.

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Sesame (Miles)
The big picture

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Sesame (Miles)
a dashboard that tells me exactly what tell it. Top three leads based on my last week's interactions and hot deals about the clothes and maybe even which accounts are showing.

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Sesame (Miles)
Increase engagement. No time for dating. Give me the highlights. Reel right up front

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Sesame (Miles)
two

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Sesame (Miles)
pain points solved.

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Sesame (Miles)
Don't just throw leads at me. Show me why these leads are worth my time. What are their biggest challenges?

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Sesame (Miles)
How has what I've worked on before help similar clients?

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Sesame (Miles)
Give me those talking points before I even pick up the phone.

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Sesame (Miles)
Three winning streak I want to track my progress in real time.

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Sesame (Miles)
Not just close deals, but metrics that show how I'm moving the needle pipeline value, conversion rates, even hemoglobin rates make it a game.

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Sesame (Miles)
Show me those wins for

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Sesame (Miles)
the AI Whisperer

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Sesame (Miles)
from working on a big deal. I want my AI copilot analyzing email, suggesting next steps based on the client's sentiment,

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Sesame (Miles)
even predicting when they're most likely to respond.

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Sesame (Miles)
Give me that unfair advantage. Basically,

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Sesame (Miles)
I want my sales app to be my personal sales hype squad.

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Sesame (Miles)
Keeping motivated, keep me focused,

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Sesame (Miles)
and make sure I'm always one step ahead of the game.

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Behrad
No,

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Behrad
it's not too much

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Behrad
like here's a

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Behrad
let me just make it a spice for you.

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Sesame (Miles)
Ooh, I like spicy.

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Sesame (Miles)
Bring it on.

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Behrad
So imagine that you're done with your workout.

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Behrad
You're on your way to work,

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Behrad
right?

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Behrad
It's

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Behrad
it's like 20 minutes

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Behrad
journey

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Behrad
in

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Behrad
car. It's not super exciting. And clearly by that time you have a Tesla

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Behrad
self automated driving. So you have a lot of time and your hands

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Behrad
when you're like

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Behrad
commuting to work,

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Behrad
you start talking to your AI sales rep

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Behrad
and they give you

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Behrad
they give you a rundown of today.

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Behrad
Look,

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Behrad
today you really need to be focused on these three cases,

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Behrad
three of these three leads, because

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Behrad
the, you know, total,

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Behrad
contract volume,

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Behrad
if you hit

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Behrad
if you close one of these is going to be that much.

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Behrad
Here are

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Behrad
the three additional administrative work you got to get done this

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Behrad
today.

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Behrad
And

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Behrad
2 p.m. you have a call with your boss.

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Behrad
You have to be preparing for this. And then sell this.

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Behrad
You are going to get a full memo of today

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Behrad
before even you get to your desk.

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Sesame (Miles)
Dude, that's the dream. Like, forget the gym. I've been

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Sesame (Miles)
doing laps around Tesla HQ with that kind of preparation in my pocket.

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Sesame (Miles)
Talk about starting strong,

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Sesame (Miles)
knowing exactly which deals prioritize, and having all the admin stuff laid out. It's how you

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Sesame (Miles)
that's how you own your day.

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Sesame (Miles)
And,

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Sesame (Miles)
pre-game briefing for that 2 p.m. call with the boss.

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Sesame (Miles)
Sign me up. Not only would I be ready, I'd be firing on all cylinders.

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Sesame (Miles)
That's what separates a good reps from the closers. And that's what I want to be.

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Sesame (Miles)
What else can this hype squad I do?

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Sesame (Miles)
Don't hold back.

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Behrad
So, like, you know,

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Behrad
imagine that now you're sitting by your desk,

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Behrad
right?

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Behrad
Imagine,

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Behrad
typical HubSpot interface with lots of sidebar action pages and,

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Behrad
big leads.

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Behrad
Do I need to see a big list of leads that probably,

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Behrad
only

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Behrad
1% of them is relevant for me today? No,

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Behrad
of course not.

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Behrad
You know, I want to look at the reporting of the past year every day.

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Behrad
Every morning. No, of course,

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Behrad
I only want to see what's relevant for me today.

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Behrad
So

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Behrad
we're moving away from a

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Behrad
fixed structure of an application that is going to look

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Behrad
the same every day

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Behrad
to stream of information that is relevant for you today.

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Behrad
That's why the future of interfaces is going to be seamless,

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Behrad
lighter,

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Behrad
and a lot more flexible

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Behrad
to what needs to be done today.

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Behrad
Maybe today you need to see a list of

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Behrad
25

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Behrad
vetted leads

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Behrad
that you need to confirm whether you want to get behind them. And tomorrow is going to be

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Behrad
only focusing on one lead, because that

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Behrad
one lead alone is going to bring back about

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Behrad
a million revenue for the company.

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Behrad
So

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Behrad
if that's the case

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Behrad
for that day,

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Behrad
do I really want to see all the other leads, or do I want to dig as deep as possible

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Behrad
on that lead and make sure I have studied that lead?

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Behrad
I'm ready to go and close that view.

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Sesame (Miles)
Boom. So

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Sesame (Miles)
you're speaking my language.

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Sesame (Miles)
Think of it like a chameleon app

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Sesame (Miles)
adapting to my needs every single day.

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Sesame (Miles)
Sometimes I need the big picture, a buffet of options to choose from. Other days I need laser focus, a deep dive into a single account that could be a game changer.

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Sesame (Miles)
It's about empowering me to be proactive. Not just reactive, not just surviving in the sales world, but thriving in it.

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Behrad
Exactly,

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Behrad
exactly.

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Behrad
Hey Miles, it's been a real pleasure talking to you.

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Sesame (Miles)
The feeling's mutual. This was a blast.

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Sesame (Miles)
Always down for a,

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Sesame (Miles)
future of sales brainstorming session. Catch you on the flip side.

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Behrad
And,

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Behrad
Yeah, out of curiosity, any last words for the audience?

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Sesame (Miles)
Everyone just remember

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Sesame (Miles)
the future work.

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Sesame (Miles)
It's all about smart collaboration.

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Sesame (Miles)
Human ingenuity powered by intelligent tools.

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Sesame (Miles)
Don't be afraid to embrace the change. You just might make you a sales superstar.

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Behrad
Thank you. Miles,

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Behrad
you got it.

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Sesame (Miles)
Tell for now.

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