EP. 101 – How AI is Rewriting Sound Design w/ Tomi Oladunjoye

 Tomi shares how his obsession with sound led him from building cars to composing award-worthy symphonies—and developing ZenyAI, an AI platform that turns game scenes into dynamic soundscapes. 

Listen to Tomi's work: https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=aIhcUYPSTfc

You can find Tomi here: https://www.linkedin.com/in/tomi-oladunjoye-703a69204/

Interested in joining the podcast? DM Behrad on LinkedIn:
https://www.linkedin.com/in/behradmirafshar/

This podcast is made by Bonanza Studios, Germany’s Premier Digital Design Studio:
https://www.bonanza-studios.com/

Chapters

• 0:00 Intro
• 0:25 Tomi's Early Tinkering: Building a Car in High School
• 9:40 Building Xenia: Image to Sound for Game Devs
• 19:00 Why Audio is Half the Game
• 25:00 The Lost Symphony of Atlantis
• 29:07 Building Music Like a Tree
• 32:00 What's Next: Music, Games, and Purpose

Transcript

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I stayed in that studio from like 5 p.m. to 4 a.m. like every single day.

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I'm not getting bored of this.

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So I might as well just continue to just do this

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Tommy is finally happening. Finally? Yes. After a good while, after really a good wife I got and I.

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Yeah. I don't want to spoil it. I think you should be the one who talks about it, but. Wow. Congratulations.

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Thank it.

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Really? So,

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let's, first I think

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about

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you and your background. I think it's very your young entrepreneur.

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Very

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brilliant one.

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And sort of then segue into,

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your platform, what it does, and then let's take it from there. Then slowly, gradually, we revealed fantastic news as well. Yeah, yeah. So topic one about me.

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Just try to do high level because, I mean, we can go in so many different directions,

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right?

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Essentially I had a background in composition where my school didn't have a composing class, so I,

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I built my own major in my undergraduate.

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I taught myself composition. And that really stemmed off from high school when I taught myself, like, how to build a car from scratch. And I was just

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teaching myself all of these things, and I just use that. Hola, Paul. You

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taught yourself to build a car? Yeah, yeah, in high school. What kind of car are we talking about?

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So to it's the actual big real car, you know. And I had it, a junk car and I had, I built it up and an actual, RC car from scratch. So I took an RC car that was the engine bay, and I dismantled everything. There was a lot of sheet metal just laying around in my school, and

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I

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designed and put together that sheet metal into an actual functioning car.

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With the RC engine. It was able to move with actual real leather inside lights and everything. So whenever you turn a turn on the car, the lights and headlights, I'll turn on too. So that's what I did in high school, and I just really just took that, that, that I guess passion, energy into other aspects. Do still have the car.

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I have pictures of it. No. And undergrad, it was kind of just taking up space because when Covid happened it really nothing there. I wanted to build another one. But no, I don't have anymore. It's it's in Wisconsin asphalt. Okay, hold on a second.

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So you are a tinkerer? Yeah.

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Experimenter. Want to play around with things building a car.

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Obviously it's. And so then you did your major was in music. Yes. Okay. So you mentioned about composing and some problem you're facing with composing. Can you elaborate on that a bit for the audience? Yeah. So I when Covid happened, I think that's when I really started to understand that actually like how music can be more than just music as an expression.

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I was really bored as everyone else was when Covid happened, and there was a studio in my school that was semi built. I helped build it up and ever since, like when it happened over that summertime,

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I stayed in that studio from like 5 p.m. to 4 a.m. like every single day. And I realized that, wait, this is actually, I'm not getting bored of this.

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So I might as well just continue to just do this and build something on.

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I mean, I just liked it. So what? I wanted to talk to my counselor, my, college counselor,

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advisor didn't really have a composition course available, but they had an option to build your own

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major. So I built my own major with composition, and I added a little bit of, like, CSS stuff inside of it, too.

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So I have a little bit of CSS background. And then

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I just

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started creating, you know, ideas in, like if

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I've always wanted to hear what something sounded like sonically. So I was able to create that as like my senior project and then put together a whole bunch of symphonies that I composed in the past, and then that that's how that was literally my whole time in undergrad.

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So you were working from five point 4 a.m., if I heard that correctly?

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Yeah. Every day.

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Yeah. I realize that there is no major for you towards the interest.

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I built your own major.

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Yeah, okay. And then you did your final project and presented that. So basically what you've done is

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all the symphonies that you wrote, you put them together.

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Wow. Okay. All right. How old are you? 25 now. God bless you.

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Okay. So what happens after. So that was Kovid, right? Covid era. Right. All right. So during Covid or really

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the time that I,

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would do my final,

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senior project was when I was, very interested in this thing called. I had no idea what I was, and I was kind of doing it in parallel where I was creating symphony and injustice,

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understanding what the heck ChatGPT was, because everyone was talking about that at that time.

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That was like my initial peak of like, wait, what? Okay, I got it. I got to really understand what this does and learning first LRM what, what tokenization meant in the first place. What what is what is it and what does that stand for?

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Right. And when I graduated from college, that's when I went. I dug deep into this stuff.

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I really got interested in diffusion models because, you know, the images, the images. That's when I think around that time, a little while afterwards, saw a camera, or at least, the. Yeah. What is it

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the trailer for?

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I didn't mean to come up for a while, but the trailer for sure. I was like, okay, okay. So knowing the future this might have, this might have a lot of changes and not, study history to a little bit like in my past time.

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So this could have a lot of changes. So let me just try to see if I can understand this now, just in case. In the future, I might need it. So learned it. Got really interested in the diffusion models. And that's when with my past symphonies, compositions with different projects. I already had a whole bunch of data and I realized that really, at the end of the day, I might be just butchering this, but AI is just a whole bunch of probability and data.

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That's correct. Weights and biases.

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Exactly. So I have data I had to I just needed to understand fully what the algorithm means. So I had to understand like the different equations and all that. And I put it I took my data, put it in a pre-trained model to really fine tune some of the sounds, had to first classify some some classifications, and then,

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I just, you know,

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I was tinkering like I always did it.

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So. Okay. That's interesting. First of all, for the audience that may not be familiar with diffusion models, just that run down of what diffusion model is. And how is that different from for example.

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Yeah. So diffusion models start off with noise noises when if you can think of a,

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an old TV set and if there's no channel you hear that static sound.

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That's basically what it looks like. It maybe sounds like. So that's what it starts with. And then afterwards the I chips away the noise to create an image for an audio file. Okay. So basically it's a raw model. You need to basically tweak it with different algorithms, weights and biases whatever. Like you configure it configure to get to that output.

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The desire

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right

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okay. So you build your own fusion model.

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No, no no I didn't belong I took a pre-trained model.

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Pre-trained. But you customize it right? Right

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okay. All right. So you wanted to customize it to help you right. Music. Right. Right. Just to get like sounds. Yeah okay okay. So where did that lead you. So now you have

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your customized fusion model.

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You can create sounds. So where it was like okay what's next. Understanding diffusion models. Maybe you understand that you could put two and two together. Text sounds was like we accomplished that feat at least. But I wanted to do something where it was like an express, because I kind of thought about it in First Principle, where it's music, it's emotion, where depending on how the composer composes the music, they either start with the sound, start with the musical sheet.

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I usually start with the sound and the emotion that sound conveys, right? So I try to do the same thing with, this AI model. So I was like,

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okay,

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instead of trying to describe the emotion that I wanted the AI to feel or the sound to

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evoke, why don't I just create an emotion, detector? So I got that.

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I got the emotion detected, and the emotion detected can then turn into sounds where, where what I see now is. That's why you. Your platform is for game. Yeah. So.

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So you detect the face and the emotions, and based on this, you create sounds, create some time. Right. I think that's genius. Okay. We did it though I wanted because we, I built it

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I wanted to see.

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That's when I had to understand the business what the tinkering side was, you know, getting there.

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But then now I had to completely shift from tinkering to business. Right. What kind of use cases does asking emotion to sound? What can we do with this? So I had a lot of ideas and talked to over, I think at that time, 7000 people just going around and talking.

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Did you find these 7000 people? So around my neighborhood around Boston, Cambridge, lo and online. So it was like Facebook groups, it was Instagram. And in total it was just completely just complete conversations. Most of it was,

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autism. So we saw that there was a, a possible chance that autism for people with autism can convey, expressed emotions a lot better.

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So we tried that. Yeah. There was a whole lot of, feasibility issues that came with that. So we just moved away from that. Okay. Okay. So you were like, basically focusing on that initially talking to that many people, which is very impressive. And then you realized that, okay, that might not be the first. It might not be the best lead.

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And then you sort of like look into other areas. What other areas did you look into? Right. So the emotions, the sounds, I

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realized that maybe there's nothing there right now. I mean, you still have the model, but it's not there right now. The that's when images to sound was the next thing. So I was like, okay, let me just see if I can just implement the same thing with emotion sounds, the image, the sounds

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so combined in the two models, connected in like the different algorithms that I developed.

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And that's how we got the image, the sound effects. So right now, platform, you're able to get just upload an image and get all the possible sound effects from that image. So for specifically for games, if you want to get an image of your game scene,

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or sounds for a three game scene and just

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get a picture of that scene,

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take a screenshot for, aspiring scene, maybe off of Pinterest for you to

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upload it into our platform.

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And the model then understands anything and everything that's happening in that image and

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gets the sound effects for that image. So that's basically that's fascinating. And that's what you have been developing maybe like walk us through the platform, introduce it. What it does be it be

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if you are

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screenshot already show some demos. That would be fun to add.

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That's just amazing stuff. I have a bunch of questions regarding this.

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Yeah,

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but I think it's best to first like understand the platform a bit, maybe answer my

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questions as well.

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That's yeah,

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that's cool.

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Yeah. So do you know cursor, cursor. Yeah I see it every day. Yeah. Okay. So for the audience who doesn't know cursor. Cursor is an AI agent to help you streamline your coding.

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So you can be a lot more productive in code. So it is basically, Visual Studio Code, but in and of itself. So that's that's what cursor is. So if you think of cursor, right. Since the plugin was a plugin, now it's on a platform. Think of it as

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Xenia is the new cursor for game audio, dude.

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So I think

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that really helps.

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Yeah. So we're building an AI audio agent for game devs where it helps, source sounds off of the user's data or

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high quality sounds. It will help generate sounds integrated perfectly into the platform or into the game and hip hop mixing master basically everything audio for game teams so they can streamline audio a lot faster.

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Because in my experience, audio was like the last thing game developers talked about. And it was always

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unfortunately. So it was it's like that that the streamline is like the back and forth that took the most amount of some of the most amount of time,

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because you wanted to really get the emotion you had to get, the sounds right to, to

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be somewhat similar to the, scene that you developing.

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So with Xenia, now you can just have a audio copilot that can understand conceptually what the scene does, and then

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ship just sounds from it.

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You'll be able to generate sounds to like, right, while you're building the game and you hear the sounds you like the sounds when you click on it and add it to your project, you can automatically add triggers to that sound.

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I mean, to that sound. So now you don't have to code up the triggers anymore. Now it takes like the code for the triggers and the audio file into your game.

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So basically when a character punch the other character, make this sound exactly,

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exactly. Yeah. That's fascinating. Okay. I cannot wait to see it.

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Yeah. I mean, we have a demo right now.

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Yeah, let's let's pull it up. Can you. Yeah, let me do that.

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Open up the unity. The only thing is I don't want my,

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laptop to crash

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while we. While I pull it up. You can definitely, Okay.

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You can,

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add some more questions. So on the platform right now, you're able to do it right now.

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So on the platform you can you can take game scenes, upload the game scene, stand to what I can show you what the platform does. And then afterwards I can show you. Yeah. So unity

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maybe like one question I think that's really I think it's on my mind. And then we can add visuals while you pull up the platform.

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There is like you know, when you're composing music for a game, you need to be following overarching theme.

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Like, you know, when an artist musician create an album, right?

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They need to basically have an understanding exactly what's the genre and what kind of sounds I want to use for songs. What would be the baseline? Right. So for a game, it would be, I assume would be the same case that you want to basically

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leverage classical theme or like you want to use some more modern

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electronic for

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when

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is there a way of for users of the platform to say, look for this game, we want to this is going to be the same for the

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music. Like we want it to be basically modern, classical, very emotionally charged, something like this.

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And then all the sounds that you're creating for different triggers and needs to basically align with this overarching theme. Yeah. Good questions with that, that platform. So you have projects on the platform so specific. In each project you can customize but give it prompt engineering can give the AI instructions.

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So with each project exactly that you want the overline understanding of what the end result will be with the game. So you can do exactly that. You can talk about what you want the game to sound like, what it's going to look like, and the theme of the sound and the game itself. And with that, not only will understand what the user says too, but it'll also suggest other things that can help them make the sound better based off what each project does.

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So basically you're following the whole ChatGPT approach that there are projects and within the project you can it's that fine. Is are you going down the line of cursor as well. But for each project you have certain documents that always cursor could go through the documents and like making sure that they don't go off the path and do something new that is not aligned with the project or a vision on a mission right

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after that.

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Like code is

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a little different, like straight code is delivered to

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audio,

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because straight code, yes, you can, very well,

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change your whole directory and on your local drive and, and, and then like

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one build

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and they

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download

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for packages that you don't even need that will just take a lot of space. So.

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Yeah. So I can definitely see why Chris does that for specifically audio.

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We have a lot of security implementations there where it doesn't do anything, where it changes the code of the project. But right now is very strict to just audio and

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audio implementation. Yeah. So this is the platforms anyway. So this is where you can download

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the all white coded. Sorry. Is it all white coded.

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You said vibe coded.

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Yes. The landing page.

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Just a front end. Yeah.

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had an idea. Just put it in web code. So you need,

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Yeah. That's it. That's the way to go. Yeah. So two options you can either download from unity and then back, and I can show you that afterwards. Or you can get started just to get an idea of where you want to go from there.

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Right. So once you jump in, this is the platform, you can immediately start understanding if you want, to find sounds as well. This is where you generate the sound effects to me.

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But I want to show you the, the, the fun part.

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Image, the sound effects. So this is

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uploaded image here, take let's take this image I don't know, deal with this images

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okay.

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So it's a game. It's a game image as you can see, it's analyzing the scene and understanding potentially what all these different sound effects or something like.

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What do you think this sounds or sound like? I'm very interested to see. I think I see

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glitter. Glitter sounds like sparkles. Yeah,

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yeah. But because it's action

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scene

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the character is jumping or yeah, some.

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Yeah.

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I'm curious to know if the audience can hear if I play this I'm going to play this. Yes. You can hear it.

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Yeah. Perfect. Okay. So you can hear I

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sounds like flappy. Flappy sounds like

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a maybe grass environment. Sounds. So these are different variations that. Exactly all different variations I said it I said it right there

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okay okay.

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Because it's in a cave as cool. Right.

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for the platform specifically, if you want to take all these sounds added in here

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you go. You can play it out once as well just for those

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I want to add trinket. Or if you want to first trim it, just you know, get a more specific sound. You can go ahead and trim it.

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So if you want one specific sound, you got that. You got that right here. Move it around.

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I want to add trigger screen. This is where it is. Add triggers to the triggers. Come here. So now game trigger if I want let's say if it hovers if I hover over.

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The scene or the person hovers over a specific object and that

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you know you get the mood as well.

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Mood is joyful. Perhaps the surface of it, the surface looks like it is

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stone, and then the intensity is light. So now you save that trigger.

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Now the audio file is connected to the Json, metadata

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data. So you can do that all for these, sounds afterwards. You can export. Right now I'm not connected to my unity,

00:18:32:22 - 00:18:34:10

but you can connect to unity.

00:18:34:12 - 00:18:38:07

Unreal engine, FMI, Adobe, Dropbox, slack, and notion

00:18:38:07 - 00:18:39:03

for just

00:18:39:03 - 00:18:42:18

variations. Team collaboration on to connect on unity. You can

00:18:42:18 - 00:18:51:06

connect that unity and you browse that, connect it on unity and directly integrate it into your unity project. So that's oh wow. Seamless

00:18:51:06 - 00:19:00:08

seems like a bit. So a game developer at least now they can work with sample sounds to get a feel for the emotion,

00:19:00:08 - 00:19:00:18

right?

00:19:00:22 - 00:19:01:11

Or

00:19:01:11 - 00:19:12:17

with the weight of the scene. Exactly. I mean, they could they could potentially change it or improve it later on. Right. Right, right. The advantage here is that from the get go, while they're developing the game,

00:19:12:17 - 00:19:13:21

they can work with

00:19:13:21 - 00:19:19:19

sounds and they can have a very clear, better understanding of the sound experience of the scene.

00:19:19:19 - 00:19:20:10

Exactly.

00:19:20:10 - 00:19:22:10

Exactly. Perfect. You put it on the spot to

00:19:22:10 - 00:19:32:19

so exactly. It's meant to streamline, and really rapidly increase audio pre-production. So like the audio production, I know with, indie developers that I talk to and even

00:19:32:19 - 00:19:34:04

studios that I talked to

00:19:34:04 - 00:19:35:07

some, some times,

00:19:35:07 - 00:19:37:07

actually, the industry norm for

00:19:37:07 - 00:19:37:15

a

00:19:37:15 - 00:19:39:17

interpolate is to just outsource sounds,

00:19:39:17 - 00:19:41:05

to another, studio.

00:19:41:07 - 00:19:46:18

Right. And then with studios who don't have that budget to just outsource sounds, they sometimes either have

00:19:46:18 - 00:19:49:03

a very, very low budgeted sounds,

00:19:49:03 - 00:20:02:16

hire composers that just very, very low budgeted and strict on sounds because they can't really expand the sounds for their games. So if you hear some games, the sound is unfortunately sometimes limited. I always love games, I love playing games,

00:20:02:16 - 00:20:04:11

and I'm always thinking, what would this?

00:20:04:13 - 00:20:06:19

What would it sound like if I actually hit that?

00:20:06:19 - 00:20:08:16

That that eventually

00:20:08:16 - 00:20:11:04

the tree doesn't sound like anything, right? So

00:20:11:04 - 00:20:12:07

with Indies, they

00:20:12:07 - 00:20:17:06

sometimes don't have the budgets, so they scroll through different sound libraries and try to find the right sounds, and

00:20:17:06 - 00:20:19:15

it's always left with, okay, this is good enough.

00:20:19:15 - 00:20:21:12

Knowing me, I don't like it enough.

00:20:21:12 - 00:20:28:06

I love like the aspect of how do you actually immerse your users and players into into your own world? How do you

00:20:28:06 - 00:20:31:02

how do you build something so vast, so emotionally?

00:20:31:02 - 00:20:36:18

Jarring that the user wants to keep coming back just off the sounds? So it's like 50%

00:20:36:18 - 00:20:42:19

audio and 50% visuals. We want to make sure that the audio is just as good as the visuals,

00:20:42:19 - 00:20:43:17

because they both.

00:20:43:18 - 00:20:44:01

It's a

00:20:44:01 - 00:20:50:02

game. And one follow up question regarding the triggers that you have defined, which is I think, brilliant, is that

00:20:50:02 - 00:20:56:12

right now you uploaded this scene and you get some variation and you introduce one trigger. So basically

00:20:56:12 - 00:20:58:14

for the entire scene there is one sound,

00:20:58:14 - 00:21:11:12

but what if it's a very dynamic screen and there are multiple Sam sounds based on different for example, it's a scene that there's a tree you want to hold around the tree, and the tree would make this sound.

00:21:11:12 - 00:21:15:14

Or there is, you know, rabbit on the ground is running,

00:21:15:14 - 00:21:19:11

but you ask it to run and it makes this sound so it can you have like,

00:21:19:11 - 00:21:26:03

multiple sounds defined per screen. Right. And that's actually where our unity pleasant plugin comes in

00:21:26:03 - 00:21:26:20

because

00:21:26:20 - 00:21:30:11

this kind of does of the platform does a little bit of just

00:21:30:11 - 00:21:31:23

the first step.

00:21:31:23 - 00:21:32:12

And

00:21:32:12 - 00:21:33:11

what like the,

00:21:33:11 - 00:21:35:08

what the game developer can do.

00:21:35:08 - 00:21:43:17

The unity plugin is essential because not only do they not have to been demos in game, developers don't have to move out of their their,

00:21:43:17 - 00:21:49:12

environment like the Unity or Unreal. They could stay in the environment and have the I, you know,

00:21:49:12 - 00:21:52:08

right click or left click the, you're

00:21:52:08 - 00:21:54:03

specify gray boxing

00:21:54:03 - 00:21:55:18

and you give okay.

00:21:55:18 - 00:21:59:12

Create a sound from that. Understand what you want to do with those sounds and

00:21:59:12 - 00:22:08:20

generate sounds for me that's actually a new version that we're building next. Right now that's you. So not you don't need to come to the platform. You don't have it. Yeah. You

00:22:08:20 - 00:22:13:13

examine the model while you're working at that in that box that you mentioned.

00:22:13:13 - 00:22:16:14

That's that's right. That could be huge. Right? Right, right.

00:22:16:14 - 00:22:23:19

Yeah. So knowing me specifically, I don't also like moving out of my, my if I'm in the flow, I don't like moving out of my, my,

00:22:23:19 - 00:22:28:15

my, environment like my door. I use a lot of logic for a lot, so I don't like

00:22:28:15 - 00:22:29:18

jumping on a logic pro.

00:22:29:18 - 00:22:36:06

I want it to be integrated into that. So with that logic, I said if I was a game developer, what would I want to do

00:22:36:06 - 00:22:44:10

that same thing too. So that's the right question to ask. Is that because you really don't want to get a person out of there? Exactly.

00:22:44:10 - 00:22:49:16

Yeah. Their natural habitat, right. Especially for designers or gamers or musicians.

00:22:49:20 - 00:22:58:08

If I'm working with unity, why do you want me to go to another platform to do certain things and bring it back to unity just in the unity. Right, right,

00:22:58:08 - 00:23:04:17

right. I mean, and also there's a lot of platforms out there already. So there's so many different other platforms that they can choose from.

00:23:04:17 - 00:23:06:08

It's really just going to be like,

00:23:06:08 - 00:23:06:19

it's going to

00:23:06:19 - 00:23:07:18

affect traffic.

00:23:07:18 - 00:23:20:22

We're going to be right in big traffic. Might as well just go directly to them. So how how's how is the response you're getting from all different types of games to use. Like do you have users. Yeah. So I don't know if

00:23:20:22 - 00:23:24:14

we have we have 1000 users right now and all of that is

00:23:24:14 - 00:23:25:09

organic.

00:23:25:09 - 00:23:26:20

So right now we've been just,

00:23:26:20 - 00:23:34:21

making sure the actual model does work because sometimes it has like some weird sounds that we just have to make sure it's fine tuned in the right way.

00:23:34:21 - 00:23:38:02

all organically growing. And right now with,

00:23:38:02 - 00:23:50:15

with our new unity plugin, that's where we can actually start being more aggressive with, the outreach to different actually game studios and more indie game developers as well, and soon to be Triple-A studios.

00:23:50:17 - 00:23:55:09

Yeah, I guess that's going to be a massive differentiation for us then. Yeah, I

00:23:55:09 - 00:24:00:18

that's hey, we don't need to move away from unity. We bring it to, you know. No. Exactly.

00:24:00:18 - 00:24:11:09

And then one follow up question. So when you show that demo you got, I think it was 5 or 6 variations. Right. Can you generate more than 5 or 6 in case you don't.

00:24:11:11 - 00:24:12:14

Yes. You can customize it

00:24:12:14 - 00:24:16:05

okay. Okay. That's really good. All right. That wow. That's

00:24:16:05 - 00:24:18:21

that's very niche. Like it's only

00:24:18:21 - 00:24:24:18

this kind of application. It's only possible to come to life because of their founders,

00:24:24:18 - 00:24:27:11

because of their founders obsession and passion.

00:24:27:11 - 00:24:29:10

I am obsessed with music. Nothing else.

00:24:29:10 - 00:24:35:18

You are obsessed. The point that I think, I think is a really good time to segway into your recent

00:24:35:18 - 00:24:36:05

news.

00:24:36:09 - 00:24:38:09

Yeah. So? So maybe just

00:24:38:09 - 00:24:44:03

I'll leave it to you how you want to basically break it down. Yeah, I don't know. I was no coding as usual

00:24:44:03 - 00:24:45:00

and

00:24:45:00 - 00:24:50:07

I got a text message from my friend in LA, the one that I, who's the director doing? Who I,

00:24:50:07 - 00:24:52:20

was the lead composer for, for their short film.

00:24:52:22 - 00:24:54:21

They told me of something very interesting,

00:24:54:21 - 00:24:57:07

and I first I felt foreign. I was like, okay,

00:24:57:07 - 00:24:59:04

I'll be honest. At first it was more.

00:24:59:04 - 00:25:05:23

Or I literally went back to just coding and making sure the model was, like, content. But then when I thought about it a little bit more and more, I was like,

00:25:05:23 - 00:25:06:23

wait, really?

00:25:06:23 - 00:25:12:12

And then that's when it really started to sit with me. I was like, okay, okay, this. Yeah,

00:25:12:12 - 00:25:27:07

this. This is real make make sure I looked online, looked at the website, were one of the leading short films for the Oscar and I think international qualifications. So that was a really surreal moment in my, career because, I mean,

00:25:27:07 - 00:25:30:23

I'm already obsessed with music, but the fact that, you know, it's like,

00:25:30:23 - 00:25:33:20

we're getting globally recognized for that to,

00:25:33:20 - 00:25:34:18

you know, it feels good.

00:25:34:19 - 00:25:44:01

I think if it was, then it's absolutely massive for where you are in your career, especially the recognition that you got from from Oscar.

00:25:44:01 - 00:25:50:12

Yeah. They I think it must be a very affirming confirmation that maybe

00:25:50:12 - 00:25:52:12

you're doing something right. Yeah. Yeah,

00:25:52:12 - 00:25:58:01

yeah. So your process of making music, I assume there is

00:25:58:01 - 00:26:05:05

some AI integrated into it as well, or you are doing it completely different from what you're doing for them.

00:26:05:05 - 00:26:05:15

Yeah.

00:26:05:15 - 00:26:17:20

So when you talk about making music, you talk about when I was making music now, or on the notion that I'm still making music, what you maybe like, you walk us through your process from the beginning to now and how it's getting affected by maybe. Yeah, if

00:26:17:20 - 00:26:23:04

if there is, I can actually tell you about my one of my favorite symphonies that I created.

00:26:23:04 - 00:26:40:09

It's I always have very interesting, well, ideas in my head. And one of the ones were, what did the Lost City of Atlanta sounded like? I was very interested to know what the Lost City of Atlanta sounded like. So I first tried to, like, study the lost city of Atlanta, everything about loss adventures. And then what would it sound like to be underwater?

00:26:40:13 - 00:26:44:07

So what would you sound like if you go deeper and deeper and deeper and like,

00:26:44:07 - 00:26:56:21

what would the pressure do to your ears? And, you know, just everything, everything that that needed to be thought of when I wanted to create such an immersive symphony like that. So it really it was just it just came down to like, understanding fully before I jumped in.

00:26:56:21 - 00:27:13:18

And then when I started to do it, same thing, I just I created the sounds first to get the emotion and then with the emotion. Then comes actual instruments and symphonies. And then I did it bit by bit by bit. So in that symphony there was three sections. The first section was your first on top of the

00:27:13:18 - 00:27:14:11

on top of the water.

00:27:14:11 - 00:27:21:05

You know, you it's relaxing. It's a very relaxing and calm beginning. But then it starts to gets more intense, intense

00:27:21:05 - 00:27:24:11

to the point where you drop into the water. So then you hear a lot of,

00:27:24:11 - 00:27:29:21

splash sounds, and now you're on the water and now I if you if you think of of

00:27:29:21 - 00:27:34:04

frequencies, you don't hear too much, high frequencies anymore.

00:27:34:09 - 00:27:38:09

Only the violin, only the violin. But everything else was more muddled. It was more muffled

00:27:38:09 - 00:27:42:15

at that point. Now, because now you're underwater and now in the background, you hear. You hear,

00:27:42:15 - 00:27:48:19

bubbles and like things happening in the back, or you hear a dolphin on, like, the way left, and then you hear, maybe

00:27:48:19 - 00:27:50:16

I don't. I didn't put a crab, but now I'm thinking about it.

00:27:50:16 - 00:27:54:08

But now you hear, like, actual, coral reef. I tried to say.

00:27:54:08 - 00:28:02:07

I tried to understand what the core of this sounded like, and try to implement that into the project. I did that. If you hear it, I can send it, when we're done to a coral reef on the on the

00:28:02:07 - 00:28:08:17

other side, too. And then you going deeper, deeper, a little more into discovering the possibilities.

00:28:08:22 - 00:28:28:23

So the idea of the symphony was discovery, but you're also in a foreign place. So when you listen to it, it's foreign at the same time. Now you go deeper and deeper and the sounds become more intense and more intense, but yet more soothing at the same time, if that makes sense, because you're going deeper. So the pressure's building, but you're also getting closer to the city.

00:28:29:04 - 00:28:29:17

So I had

00:28:29:17 - 00:28:47:13

to have to implement both of that too, because like, it's like that power at bay. Yin yang, let me say yes. Getting the sounds, getting the bubbles. The violin is louder now. Now you have harmonies in the violins and then you hear like, all those. So it's like, okay, so you feel like you are definitely in a place where you're getting close.

00:28:47:13 - 00:28:52:06

Maybe it's just one corner away or in the water sense, maybe it's just one meter down

00:28:52:06 - 00:28:58:10

and then you're there. So when you actually reached the last of Atlantis, now you have the the low end, now you have the

00:28:58:10 - 00:29:08:04

I have the, the the bass. Now you have really the, the subs, the subs now introduced all before then the subs weren't introduced because that's really more of a, as

00:29:08:04 - 00:29:08:20

I call it.

00:29:08:20 - 00:29:15:06

It's more, more you holding off to, to the climax. You don't want right. You don't want the, the

00:29:15:06 - 00:29:20:20

low ends to be, to to early because it kind of conveys that you weren't there already

00:29:20:20 - 00:29:25:22

with this one. I wanted to wait until the very end, until, so, you know, you have high ends. You have the, the

00:29:25:22 - 00:29:30:04

the high end frequencies, the the violins, you know, doing the harmonies.

00:29:30:04 - 00:29:38:16

You have the, the, the mid-range. Now you have all these different sounds that play with your with your spatial parameters. Now you hear like

00:29:38:16 - 00:29:49:05

the what is it sprinkle sounds here, the dolphin sounds there, you hear the bubbles there. And then you have the low end. You have the bass. That really just grounds everything. And now you're on the ground and then out.

00:29:49:06 - 00:29:52:13

Yeah. And everything all goes together where it's,

00:29:52:13 - 00:29:54:10

I think of it like this. The

00:29:54:10 - 00:29:55:03

music

00:29:55:03 - 00:29:57:14

specifically, I see it as like a tree.

00:29:57:14 - 00:30:01:09

If you think of a tree and the low end, the bass is

00:30:01:09 - 00:30:07:18

the root mean. It's exactly. It's the it's the it's the driving force. You have to if you want something to be in a way

00:30:07:18 - 00:30:12:09

different and unique, you got to at least give the audience something to ground themselves with.

00:30:12:09 - 00:30:13:22

So that's what that's what I think.

00:30:13:22 - 00:30:20:00

Predictable rhythm. That's what it was. The predictable rhythm is what some say. Okay, at least I can predict this, right?

00:30:20:00 - 00:30:20:10

But

00:30:20:10 - 00:30:21:22

everything else was just

00:30:21:22 - 00:30:30:17

random. Driving force was the low bass, and every other sound is like the vines wrapping around that. The branch is like vines. And then you have a symphony.

00:30:30:17 - 00:30:52:10

You have a violin over there. Okay. That's another branch of that tree. Okay. Maybe you have you have flutes over here. That's another branch of that tree. Or when you have a little bit of drums. Okay. Those are the leaves that's coming off of this higher this, this lower bass too. So it's like everything all talks to each other, but at the same time they have their own language and they speak in different ways, if that makes sense.

00:30:52:10 - 00:31:08:06

Oh, it's beautiful, it's beautiful. It's just like it's really beautiful when someone that really passionate about what they're doing, explaining what they're doing and that at this level, because often when you hear music, you don't really get to expose the thought process of the artist,

00:31:08:06 - 00:31:18:04

which is like hearing the finished product. Yeah. But even if I haven't heard about the music, I have an understanding of what's good, what what what I can expect if I listen to it

00:31:18:04 - 00:31:21:20

and I somehow look, I don't want to listen to it because that

00:31:21:20 - 00:31:23:03

person is nicer.

00:31:23:05 - 00:31:24:21

I, I'm happy with this description

00:31:24:21 - 00:31:43:16

that you provided. I think that just oh that's beautiful. You basically towards the end of the music, the roots that the low ends comes in and ground right there. Okay. You are now there. Exactly. Enjoy it. See it? Yeah. This is the place that have been buried under the water for years for for long time.

00:31:43:19 - 00:31:44:14

You are there.

00:31:44:14 - 00:32:03:15

So it's just like a start with very sort of like a turbulent, uplifting. You're going to go into this like very deep meditative experience. And at the end you're there and you're at the base. Exactly. I now I want to listen to the music. Yeah, how I can I said I can send it afterwards. Yeah, I will put it in the link.

00:32:03:15 - 00:32:08:05

I think I will do if you would like to share with other people too. Yeah, definitely. I love that. So.

00:32:08:05 - 00:32:15:11

So you wanted to compose this, you compose it. Then how did you end up, like collaborating with this team from L.A.? Yeah.

00:32:15:11 - 00:32:16:04

So

00:32:16:04 - 00:32:18:05

they were actually coming to my same school,

00:32:18:05 - 00:32:20:23

so that's why I first knew them. So it's a very young team

00:32:20:23 - 00:32:21:17

USA.

00:32:21:17 - 00:32:29:12

Yes. Wow. Bunch of bunch of very, very talented people come together to make something happen. And this is good pitch that you were like, I mean,

00:32:29:12 - 00:32:34:13

did you use this symphony or did you make something, you know, something new? We okay in the past,

00:32:34:13 - 00:32:39:05

specifically with the director, she was the one who was in my school and then everyone else.

00:32:39:07 - 00:32:43:21

She found them in LA. So the director and I, we always we always like,

00:32:43:21 - 00:32:47:23

collaborate on other projects. So this wasn't the first project we collab done,

00:32:47:23 - 00:32:54:02

right? We I don't even know how many other projects we had collaborated on. Two, but it was like it was multiple. So like,

00:32:54:02 - 00:32:57:15

we have synergy. We we talked. So we have the same thought process.

00:32:57:15 - 00:32:59:11

Oh like this. What if this is so it's like

00:32:59:11 - 00:33:06:19

we just go off and just do it. So have you been to college or you skip that part. Yeah. Oh, this was unknown undergrad

00:33:06:19 - 00:33:07:21

okay. Got it

00:33:07:21 - 00:33:11:15

right now. So I just want to get a feel for how you see

00:33:11:15 - 00:33:13:12

where you are and where you want to end up.

00:33:13:14 - 00:33:14:21

You're like, now

00:33:14:21 - 00:33:18:23

developing this awesome platform, which I think is going to help a lot of

00:33:18:23 - 00:33:23:10

indie game developers, which I, bunch of my friends are indie gamers. I know

00:33:23:10 - 00:33:26:19

their struggle with the budget and, you know, producing the

00:33:26:19 - 00:33:36:15

is going to help that. And you have your own music career, which I think is going to blow out of proportion after the whole Oscar thing is, is going to come into fruition.

00:33:36:18 - 00:33:57:10

Where do you see yourself like in the next few years was definitely going to be still music, I tell you that. Yeah. If you told me this, maybe two years, last year, right. I would have had I would have said many things. But now I think clarity is the biggest advantage that I have for myself. And understanding that in the next just five years, if we just in five years.

00:33:57:15 - 00:33:59:07

No, just continuing with Z,

00:33:59:07 - 00:34:01:00

I'm going to just continue building anyway.

00:34:01:00 - 00:34:03:15

Right? Obviously I have a long bucket list

00:34:03:15 - 00:34:04:11

and.

00:34:04:11 - 00:34:05:04

But right now

00:34:05:04 - 00:34:07:22

I just have to make sure it does. And there actually serves

00:34:07:22 - 00:34:17:04

game developers the best way possible. Are you currently developing it by yourself or you have a team around you? I'm currently developing myself and you basically use cursors.

00:34:17:04 - 00:34:20:02

Do you have like coding background or you just type code as

00:34:20:02 - 00:34:20:21

coding background?

00:34:20:21 - 00:34:21:11

Okay.

00:34:21:11 - 00:34:27:12

So Python the front end is mostly, crochet. Yeah. Of course, I mean what I, you want to.

00:34:27:12 - 00:34:32:12

Yeah, yeah. So basically. Okay, it's sort of like a under the front and level.

00:34:32:12 - 00:34:33:00

Do you have

00:34:33:00 - 00:34:40:16

background in coding so you can take care of it without so much of white coding because that's the core of your platform and, and the rest.

00:34:40:17 - 00:34:42:08

My code. Wow. Okay.

00:34:42:08 - 00:34:49:00

It's just a really clear example of why the future of entrepreneurship belongs to solopreneurs like yours. So

00:34:49:00 - 00:34:50:17

like initially, you are a

00:34:50:17 - 00:34:52:09

testament for for that

00:34:52:09 - 00:35:05:02

hypothesis that as long as you have passion, as long as you have drive, as long as you have time and and resources and dedication, you can become master of your own destiny, so to speak.

00:35:05:06 - 00:35:16:21

Yeah, yeah. How do you see yourself in like, where you are right now? Are you? You're based in Boston, right? Yes. Are you planning to stay there or do you want to go around the world or. That depends. That's nuanced.

00:35:16:21 - 00:35:17:08

Yeah.

00:35:17:08 - 00:35:18:02

It depends.

00:35:18:02 - 00:35:18:19

Yeah, I

00:35:18:19 - 00:35:19:04

see

00:35:19:04 - 00:35:24:11

I see why it's a great place to be in terms of network, in terms of all the available resources around you.

00:35:24:16 - 00:35:27:01

Yeah. Gives you the,

00:35:27:01 - 00:35:28:01

the time, you know,

00:35:28:01 - 00:35:31:13

heart to heart. I wish I was at the age right now.

00:35:31:13 - 00:35:48:07

Now I'm a bit, like, older than you, but I think it's a great opportunity. At that time, we didn't have all these tools. It's it's crazy what the newer generation are equipped with. And I see that a lot of Tommy's and we will we will come out of this new era that

00:35:48:07 - 00:35:54:17

builds amazing products and services and experiences, the ones that I could not even conceive.

00:35:54:17 - 00:36:12:14

I agree, and I've not been telling a lot of people, some of my my close peers to where we're actually in the perfect time, perfect time to to, just build whatever you want to build perfect time. It's skill acquisition. I think that's that's what it is. That's the main goal that I have right now for myself

00:36:12:14 - 00:36:13:03

in my 20s.

00:36:13:09 - 00:36:18:02

It's just skill acquisition. I want to build as many, as many important skills as possible, and

00:36:18:02 - 00:36:19:12

I think actually doing it.

00:36:19:12 - 00:36:21:10

I mean, people tell me that,

00:36:21:10 - 00:36:23:10

you know, what? If this what if, what if.

00:36:23:10 - 00:36:24:23

And I tell them that

00:36:24:23 - 00:36:29:06

that's fair. What if you did it and looked fair in the eyes and then you just still did it?

00:36:29:08 - 00:36:31:20

It goes away quick. You'd be very you'd be very,

00:36:31:20 - 00:36:34:13

quite surprised if you just did it. It goes away

00:36:34:13 - 00:36:40:02

basically. Okay. If I'm not sure about doing it or not doing it, why don't I do it? Just do it. It.

00:36:40:02 - 00:36:40:13

Yeah.

00:36:40:13 - 00:36:40:23

Yeah.

00:36:40:23 - 00:36:42:04

I'm with you on it.

00:36:42:04 - 00:36:42:14

Yeah.

00:36:42:14 - 00:36:45:02

Why don't you do it? Just try it. You have time.

00:36:45:04 - 00:36:46:04

Exactly. Yeah.

00:36:46:04 - 00:36:54:03

Yeah. Why not? I mean, I think if I want to go back to my teens, I did a lot of bunch of stuff, but I would have done ten times more,

00:36:54:03 - 00:36:58:04

because just doing 20 is is more like for tinkering.

00:36:58:04 - 00:36:59:02

At least that's only.

00:36:59:02 - 00:37:04:08

Yeah, finding what you like to do, even if you had to do it sleeping under the bridge.

00:37:04:11 - 00:37:10:10

Yeah. I mean that's not that's not something that I would tell very, very. But I'm just thinking out loud to, okay,

00:37:10:10 - 00:37:14:23

you have to make sure you actually like doing it, but you have to see the economic value of it as well. So it's like,

00:37:14:23 - 00:37:22:17

how can you balance the two? I could add that as long as the under the bridge has a store link and a very strong, capable machine

00:37:22:17 - 00:37:23:14

run unity.

00:37:23:14 - 00:37:26:05

Oh yeah. To refine that you just add a GPU in it.

00:37:26:05 - 00:37:28:08

Yeah. GPU in it. I think it should be fine.

00:37:28:08 - 00:37:29:18

Here's the thing. I think, you know,

00:37:29:18 - 00:37:34:10

this was a long conversation and I thoroughly like at all. And and, you know,

00:37:34:10 - 00:37:40:08

in spite of what you're doing, I cannot ask you to give an advice to older people.

00:37:40:08 - 00:37:43:00

But like for folks that are at their 20s,

00:37:43:00 - 00:37:55:11

15 or, you know, younger generation deciding whether to go to university or not or college, whatever the case may be, if you want to, like, just like go to talk to your younger self, what would you say

00:37:55:11 - 00:38:02:07

to do or like, you know, to not not advise in per se, but you know, to keep keep ion of

00:38:02:07 - 00:38:05:13

you know what, avoid what not avoid anything.

00:38:05:16 - 00:38:11:01

As a closing remark, I was thinking about this and this might be actually a good advice too. I was first saying

00:38:11:01 - 00:38:14:08

that it's not my place to tell people what to do, because

00:38:14:08 - 00:38:22:20

I wouldn't have known what could have been if I chose another path. So instead of me trying to say, what if I did this instead, I think, what can I do now?

00:38:22:22 - 00:38:23:12

So,

00:38:23:12 - 00:38:24:04

I mean,

00:38:24:04 - 00:38:39:22

this path got me to learn. I don't know, I don't know what I would have done differently maybe in AI sooner. Perhaps that would have been helpful. But for younger, and then this is where it translates into the, into the advice to just don't worry about what happened,

00:38:39:22 - 00:38:43:05

because everything is just happening in the past or it happened in the past.

00:38:43:05 - 00:38:48:12

And at least I'm really focused on like the next step forward. And this is very cliche, but if you just think about steps,

00:38:48:12 - 00:38:58:00

you hear this all the time too. But think about steps, right? It's like you see a big mountain. Don't think about the mountain. Don't care about the mountain. A matter of fact, care. Love the step, love this step.

00:38:58:00 - 00:38:59:16

And then the mountaintop is inevitable.

00:38:59:16 - 00:39:02:12

That's what I want to say. I love it, love this step,

00:39:02:12 - 00:39:03:06

and I love this.

00:39:03:06 - 00:39:04:23

Yeah. Let's step in for us.

00:39:04:23 - 00:39:05:17

That's it.

00:39:05:17 - 00:39:07:11

Forget the mountaintop. Not

00:39:07:11 - 00:39:09:12

in front of you. Yeah. Commit to it.

00:39:09:12 - 00:39:16:02

Exactly. Hey, I'm first of all, I'm really happy that this happened. I'm really happy it happened on Friday, because now it's

00:39:16:02 - 00:39:16:13

getting

00:39:16:13 - 00:39:20:09

me pumped to open my design file and do some crazy stuff in this.

00:39:20:09 - 00:39:28:19

I really congratulate you from from where I am in life, and I'm very blessed to have you on the podcast. I think you're doing something really cool. You have it.

00:39:28:19 - 00:39:30:05

You're an amazing person.

00:39:30:05 - 00:39:34:16

It's very shining and I wish you all the well, I mean, you just getting started

00:39:34:16 - 00:39:41:13

here and embrace this universal gift that is bestowed upon you and I assume you will attend the Oscar as well.

00:39:41:18 - 00:39:42:05

Yeah.

00:39:42:05 - 00:39:45:22

Yeah. Yeah, you might have to spend some money to get

00:39:45:22 - 00:39:48:01

dressed. Well, but it's reserved.

00:39:48:01 - 00:39:50:08

Yeah. Thanks a lot. Yeah, it's been a pleasure.

00:39:50:08 - 00:39:57:09