Rome as the Eternal City with Joshua Charles

Have you ever wondered what happened after the Book of Acts closes? The story of Christianity's explosive growth through the ancient world might be the most thrilling chapter in Church history you've never fully explored.

Joshua Charles, founder of Eternal Christendom, takes us on a captivating journey through the grand narrative of salvation history, revealing how Greek philosophy, Roman order, and Hebrew revelation converged at the perfect moment for Christ's arrival. This isn't just ancient history—it's the story we're still living today.

Discover how the early Church Fathers understood prophecy unfolding before their eyes as pagan temples fell and Christian altars rose across the empire. Learn why St. Thomas Aquinas identified "obedience to the Roman Church" as the mysterious restrainer mentioned in Scripture, and why this matters for our current moment.

The conversation ventures into fascinating territory as Joshua addresses the recurring biblical motif of older and younger brothers—from Cain and Abel to Judaism and Christianity—and how this ancient rivalry appears headed toward an eschatological climax. What role will each "brother" play in the end times? The answers might surprise you.

For those feeling anxious about world events, Joshua offers a perspective that's both sobering and hopeful: "When things appear worst here on earth, they're actually getting closer to the greatest triumph of all time." This understanding helps Catholics maintain peace amid turmoil, focusing on loving those directly before us rather than being consumed by distant events beyond our control.

Support Eternal Christendom's mission of making the Church Fathers accessible to all at eternalchristendom.com, where over 1.3 million words of Catholic wisdom await you completely free.

Chapters

• 0:00 Introduction to Joshua Charles
• 6:26 Eternal Christendom's Five Masterpiece Mission
• 16:10 Catholic Apologetics and Great Tradition
• 26:53 How Greco-Roman-Jewish Culture Prepared for Christ
• 40:31 The Restrainer and End Times Narrative
• 55:16 Concerns About Professional Catholic Content
• 1:07:38 Aliens, Demons, and Ancient Knowledge
• 1:25:15 The Older Brother and Younger Brother Motif
• 1:46:25 Reconciliation in the Eschaton
• 1:56:36 Final Thoughts and Supporting Eternal Christendom

Transcript

Speaker 1: 0:10

that was bigger for me as the george floyd summer that's when it started to become so you conventionally described as racist I guess would be the best way of putting it like, obviously I don't hate black people, but most people describe me as as racist. I mean I, I definitely agree with christian whoa all right. No wonder that was how you guys were gonna do your garbage that is.

Speaker 2: 0:33

That is wild. Josh, you agree with wagner we? Uh we sorry guys, we get like these submissions. We don't have to do them sometimes. Uh-oh, we're having trouble streaming somewhere Rob Locals.

Speaker 2: 0:50

Locals is having a hard time. That's not good. See, if you can fix that, Can't fix it, Josh. It's been a while since we had you on. For anybody that doesn't know, Joshua Charles, I can't imagine that. You're like, you're one of the people that watch our show. You are the favorite, like a breakout uh side character or like you know. You like our Frazier to cheers, Like people, really people's honor.

Speaker 1: 1:15

Well, everybody knows I discovered you so well you discovered the earth is round, anthony, so you know he's not sure about that one, but he knows you discovered the speed of light. You discovered the power of the atom. You know I did discover.

Speaker 2: 1:33

We never went to the moon, I'll say that. But um, uh, all joking aside, this was your first papal election as a catholic. How did uh? How did you feel, witnessing all eyes on rome as a catholic for the first time?

Speaker 1: 1:46

it was fun. It's a little scary, given some of the candidates on uh on offer, but, um, no, it was very exciting and uh, I, um I'm very, uh, cautiously optimistic about pope leo right now, so we'll see. We'll see what happens.

Speaker 2: 2:06

It has. It has been nice not waking up every morning to a new headline of.

Speaker 1: 2:12

Anna, anna. Oh man, I've got Anna, said Hitchborn still beats me out.

Speaker 2: 2:18

He's on here.

Speaker 1: 2:19

I love Hitchborn. Michael's a dear friend, so he is.

Speaker 2: 2:23

He's hands down Brilliant, the favorite ab guest, like people go uh yeah I need to do one together with the stupid nfp. Talk in the stupid chat I'm gonna block people I appreciate it. Anna, I appreciate it um, so yeah, it was because you came all right. So you came in in 2020, um, and which was like the height of covid and it's the world. No, you came in in 2020, which was like the height of COVID.

Speaker 1: 2:48

No, I came in in 2019.

Speaker 2: 2:51

2019, right before everything hits the fan Summer before yeah, but you came in Easter 2020, didn't you?

Speaker 1: 3:00

No July 2019.

Speaker 2: 3:02

So you had a normal year. I should have 10.

Speaker 1: 3:04

Easter 2020.

Speaker 2: 3:05

Okay, because of the events of those years, yeah, it's just been a wild couple of years. So what have you guys been doing over at Eternal Christendom?

Speaker 1: 3:18

Oh man, tons. Sorry, I'm a little low energy today. Just a lot of work, but it's good, nothing to complain about, it's just finished. A lot of work, but it's good, nothing to complain about. It's just, uh, just finished a huge um upgrade of the website. We've uh, you know we're not, we're not just a podcast. You know, I always tell people to go to our website at turnoffristiancom because if you go to becoming Catholic, which is at the very top of the homepage, we've got about 1.3 million Um, thank you mode. I appreciate it. Yeah, I'll get to that in a little bit, but, um, but I appreciate that a lot. Um, you know all the stuff behind me. I'm basically systematizing all the receipts from the last eight years of research, but I also had about another decade of research and other great sources before that. What's a white claw? Is that an energy?

Speaker 1: 4:01

what's a white claw no guys, you gotta understand something about me before we go to more in eternal christian my entire life. There are so many pop culture things that people ask me about. I'm like what?

Speaker 3: 4:13

is that?

Speaker 1: 4:13

I just don't know seltzer, is it a beer? That's what I thought that's what I thought. I was pretty certain it was something alcoholic. But is that, miss casey, like the, the one whose husband does amazing apologies yes, oh, that's great I, I love. I hope we can meet at some point, um, but I know, I know the roman, it was um. I was a, a protestant of multiple varieties, christine, um, but uh one thing he wasn't was a drinker apparently no, no, I've never been much of a drinker.

Speaker 1: 4:43

I um, um, there was. There was one time I purposely got drunk, which was my 21st, purely out of curiosity I had. I was like, what on earth are people so into this for? And I'm not proud of it. I brought it up in my first confession, but, um, but I, I understood why people were into it. It certainly dulled my conscience, and nothing beyond the drunkenness, of course, nothing sinful occurred, but I could see how something easily sinful, something sinful, could have easily occurred under under my state of mind. So I get why people do it, but I know that's what, not what Ms Casey was advocating for. But why does seltzer give you an energy boost, or is that what it does?

Speaker 2: 5:22

Well, I'm having a. There's been a few times where I was on the show. I was a little tired and I had a white clone to put me right up. I think that's all right.

Speaker 1: 5:30

All right well I can, I'll, I'll, uh, I'll act it out. A bit of it, no, but um, so if you're going to becoming catholic, it's about 1.3 million words of written content free and I literally have about 300 000 words in draft. So there's a lot more coming and it's basically what I was doing with system. It won't go into all the boring details, but with systematizing absolutely everything with the new format I've kind of settled on. So now you can go by church father, you can go by saint, by whoever there's even founding fathers on there or you can go by topic, and there's a whole lot more coming. But I've got topic archives on all the sacraments, every sacrament, the papacy, our Lady. There's even a topic archive this one's going to be expanded a lot but on Judas within and during evil within the church. Oh, nancy, do I have a text from you? Anyway, but anyway. So all the topic archive on abortion, on homosexual behavior, on we even have one about the conversion of the empire. There's going to be a whole lot more out of that one. There's one I'm putting together about miracles, miracles in the church. So literally every single miracle story I am trying to archive so people can read these incredible stories I am trying to archive so people can read these incredible stories. I mean Eucharistic miracles, miracles related to relics, miracles related to, you know, demonic exorcisms and whatnot. So fascinating, fascinating stuff. So I've got my format set and now as I literally go, you know, here's one I was working on St Cyril of Alexandria. I was going through something on this today, so I'll go through this and I'll literally go to the serial of Alexandria. Author, quote, archive, put it in there. That's my baseline text, and whatever topic that quote touches on, I'll put it in the topic archive as well.

Speaker 1: 7:13

So this is what we're doing and this is the just the first step. We're telling people we have a three phase plan. It's we call it a chapel, church, cathedral, and we are in the chapel phase and that is with building our five masterpieces, as we call it. The first one is the podcast. The second one is audio. Audio is we want all this stuff. I mean all of it and professional, freely available audio so people can listen to it on their phones all the time. Some of it has been done, but not the best quality, in my opinion. The third one, the third masterpiece, is classic.

Speaker 1: 7:44

So we basically want to take these books. Look at this. You see anything visually interesting there? No, and that's the case with virtually all the classics. And so we basically want to beautify and explain all the apologetic stuff in all these great works. Not only the fathers, but Plato, aristotle, the fathers, other saints show how this is what the Catholic Church brought together thanks to the assumption of human nature by the Logos. The fourth one is the Eternal Christian Bible, an apologetics Bible that I hope is like the best ever created. And the fifth one is we'll call the Digital Cathedral, which basically would integrate the physical books, through QR codes or whatever, with a whole digital ecosystem where people could access lectures, art, audio.

Speaker 1: 8:32

I'd like to get Hollywood level filmmakers to make trailers about different saints in their lives so that you know if you're going to say Ignatius of Antioch and his letters.

Speaker 1: 8:39

You can watch an incredible trailer about his life and you know being martyred in the Coliseum, eaten by lions, whatever it may be. So it's a big, big vision, but the first part, you know, you got to start small. So the first part is all this Becoming Catholic research which is going to be ongoing throughout the entire life, of Eternal Christendom, and the podcast, and so and we call this our chapel phase, and our chapel phase will be complete when we have basically covered all of our costs through smaller monthly patrons. We know that, you know times are expensive and so, but if we have about a little bit less than 2000 Catholics who are willing to become patrons for $10 a month, you know it's like a coffee and a bagel uh, we're covered. We can do that part indefinitely and then, instead of having, you know, larger patrons cover some of those costs, we have larger patrons cover the next big masterpieces. So that's what we are shooting for over the next next few months and whatnot.

Speaker 2: 9:33

Are there any plans for eternal Christendom to expand to a network style of other personalities? We need something to replace Catholic Angus.

Speaker 1: 9:40

Nothing concrete at the moment, but but I've been approached by I won't mention who, and that's not a subtle pointing at Anthony, but no, I have been approached by numerous people about that possibility at some point. Frankly, this is why we need help finishing our chapel. So if any of you are out there, again we're asking if you can give more than $10, great. But if you can give $10 a month, if about 2000 Catholics do that, only 2000,. There's plenty of Catholics out there. We are covered on our costs. It takes a lot to do this. We got me a full-time team member, my sister, nancy, a full-time team member. We got a part-time podcast producer who does all the graphics. He does a bunch of other stuff. We have a graphic design guy. There's legal stuff with a nonprofit. It's all tax deductible, by the way. You know. There's just a lot of things, but overall we're doing it for, you know, I think roughly 300K a year all of it, and if we have that covered we can keep doing this indefinitely, all this stuff.

Speaker 1: 10:45

Catholic University of America. They've given us permission to read from all of this on the podcast without limitation. That means, instead of you guys having to pay 45, 55 dollars, uh, 60 dollars. Thank you, rob, appreciate it. That means instead of you guys having to pay 45 to 60 dollars for each of these volumes. Um, if we all can't, that's funny. Don't do that, don't't do that, but, but, but, but, no, but, instead of you guys having to pay between forty, five and sixty dollars, we're planning to do a whole catechesis with the fathers I'm still mapping that out a little bit but where I literally go letter by letter you know that has good stuff Sermon by sermon, work by work, so that we can all dive into this together and help people become, remain and deepen their lives as catholics, hidden with christ and god. That's our goal.

Speaker 2: 11:27

So I'm looking forward to like lecture series because, yeah, um, I went back and I listened to and this is why I wanted to talk about this tonight. I went back and I watched your episode with dr dr alan phimister.

Speaker 1: 11:39

Thank, you, igor appreciate it. And just to be clear, he's on the advisory board. There there's a board of directors which are those of us like myself Actually, dr Peter Kwasniewski is on there now and a dear friend of mine and fellow convert, jason Roberts. He's not a well-known guy but he's extremely adept at strategic planning, leadership principles and all that. He does it professionally so. But but Michael Knowles on the advisory board, which is basically a bunch of great Catholics who are promoting and endorsing what we're doing, and it will give us free advice and criticism which we try to use and incorporate.

Speaker 2: 12:13

So, yeah, the people Josh has named are the people that will be voting him out in a five to four vote soon.

Speaker 3: 12:20

The board of directors is the ones that do the hostile takeovers and get you. Yeah, yeah, oh, trust me, we're trying to be wise in how we do all that. The board of directors is the ones that do the uh hostile takeovers and get you.

Speaker 1: 12:25

Yeah, yeah, oh, trust me, we're trying to be wise, and and how we do all that we all anticipate the coup and the ouster of joshua charles from his own don't ever let anthony on that board.

Speaker 2: 12:36

He will I'll be the one to organize it. No, so listen. So I went back and I listened to your episode with dr alan phimister and, um, it reminded me of when I was like first digging back into my faith and I would listen to.

Speaker 1: 12:50

Oh, by the way, I'm sorry. Can I answer one more thing? I'm so sorry, I'm so sorry.

Speaker 2: 12:53

You got to turn the comments off. One more thing, one more thing.

Speaker 1: 12:57

No, one more thing. We just announced that I can't say who, to respect his privacy, but we have an FSSP pastor who we made this decision a number of months ago. But we are under priestly authority and our board unanimously voted hey, brian, I think that's the Brian, I think I know. I won't say where he lives, in case it's the one I know, but he can say it if he wants. But anyway, an FSSP pastor who our board unanimously voted to basically abide by his determinations as far as doctrine and morals, as far as our conduct as an apostle. So this is a priest. Let's just say I would die for this priest, and he is. He is one of the most virtuous, insightful and also prudent men I've ever known in my life. So we are under priestly authority.

Speaker 2: 13:45

So was that inspired. By recent events within.

Speaker 1: 13:49

No, we did it months ago, but recent events made me think it was important to make it public.

Speaker 3: 13:55

And I'd like to make public that we've looked for a priest to do that for Anthony, but no one was willing to volunteer for free.

Speaker 1: 14:01

No one's willing.

Speaker 3: 14:02

And the salaries they asked for were way too high.

Speaker 1: 14:06

So I'm all. He's got Salary or insurance policy. No one wanted to be associated with our brand name. So anyway.

Speaker 2: 14:16

Dr Alton, stop cutting me off, this is my show, not yours.

Speaker 1: 14:19

You know what? I'm being Italian like you, I'm taking after you.

Speaker 3: 14:23

Oh, he just disappeared randomly. I wonder, how that could have happened.

Speaker 2: 14:28

Wait, is that you Rob? Yes, rob boots me off the show randomly.

Speaker 1: 14:32

Alright, sorry.

Speaker 2: 14:35

Alright, so.

Speaker 2: 14:36

I went back and I watched the interview with Dr Alan Phimister about the Iron Scepter of the Son of man, and listening to it kind of made me think back to the times when I was listening to, like the St Paul Center lectures, when they would have those priest conferences and you'd have a day where you'd have, like Brant Petrie would do a session, then you'd have John Bergsman do a session, then Scott Hahn would do a session, then you'd have John John Berg's would do a session, then then Scott Hahn would do a session, and I would always like learn things that I'd never heard or was taught before about scripture, and when I went back and listened to it there was so many like I've.

Speaker 2: 15:17

I've read a bunch of things on the prophecy of Daniel and the dream of nebuchadnezzar about the, the idol in his dream, with the head of gold, the chest of silver and the, the body of bronze, and then the, the, the feet of iron and clay, and I never picked up on the fact that the feet are of iron and clay signifies the split between east and west and how that empire would actually be divided partly weak, partly strong yeah, and that was one of those things.

Speaker 2: 15:52

And then the other thing was, um, the, the temple itself, one of the most interesting things in that episode. The temple itself is made up of the holy of Holies, the inner court, which is only for Jews, and then you had the outer court, which is the court of the Gentiles, which God wanted a place for the Gentiles to come and be able to worship him and them. Setting up the money tables within this outer court was in like an inherent rejection of the idea that the, the promises, could one day go out to the Gentiles.

Speaker 1: 16:32

Yeah, but then they were cavorting with the Gentiles to produce a certain coin. Uh, you know that that that supposedly wouldn't violate, you know, idolatry laws, but but did so.

Speaker 2: 16:48

Just the fact that they were doing this, this act of okay. So the, the, the coin was a half shekel, right, they? So anybody that wanted to buy a lamb for the sacrifice of the Passover, had to buy the lamb with a half shekel. And that was because the the I guess whoever was running the temple I don't know if it was the Pharisees the Passover had to buy the lamb with a half shekel. And that was because whoever was running the temple I don't know if it was the Pharisees or whatever they said, you couldn't use a Roman coin because it had Caesar's image on it to buy your lamb for the sacrifice, so you had to buy this half shekel.

Speaker 2: 17:18

Now the half shekel stops being minted around the time when Christ comes, being minted around the time when Christ comes. So they go to the temple, you know, to Rome, and ask if they can mint the half shekel themselves, and Rome says no, but you can use this mint, and on the half shekel there's an image of Baal. So they're telling the Jews they can't use the Roman coin because it has Caesar's image on it, but they use the half shekel that has Baal's image on it. So they're still participating in idolatry in that aspect and the fact that this unholy act is happening in the outer court of the Gentiles. Is this implicit rejection of the covenant going to the Gentile nations?

Speaker 1: 18:08

rejection of the covenant going to the gentile nations. Yeah, yep, it's like jonah manifested in the temple.

Speaker 2: 18:11

Like I'm not going to go to the ninevites, so what I thought we could talk about tonight. I saw joel barry tweeted recently. Actually, this is a year or two ago.

Speaker 2: 18:19

But he said no, no, this is. This is a year or two ago, he said, said Western civilization was invented by the Greeks and the Jews while white Europeans were still naked savages dancing around campfires. And I think part of the reason people have this perception is because so much of our Catholic apologetics are geared towards answering Protestant biblical arguments and not nearly enough focused on the story of how Christianity spreads after the Ascension and after the Book of Acts concludes. It's almost like there's this empty gap for 2000. I mean, Catholics kind of have a little bit of an understanding of church history, but that period after the Book of Acts closes is to me the most exciting part of the story. Even that period after the book of Acts closes is to me the most exciting part of the story, even though it's not in scripture.

Speaker 1: 19:10

Yeah, I mean. This is part of why the Eternal Christum logo is what it is. There's a cross in the middle, there are the Ten Commandments with an elephant bat, the Hebrew for the two tablets representing revealed religion, and then there's a Parthenon representing Athens, greece, philosophy, reason. Then there's a Colosseum representing Rome, law, institutions, and it's meant to exemplify that there's this essential narrative about history that I think most of us have lost. You know, paul says in Galatians 4, 4, that Christ came in the fullness of time and part of that fullness of time that the fathers describe. What is that? Rob's meters? I can't see what it is what was that rob?

Speaker 2: 19:51

someone's just asking what the painting was behind me I thought it was relevant to what josh was saying. It's all right, you guys just like putting the brakes on this whole show I know, I know sorry so, um so, but it's meant to tell that story because it's a very.

Speaker 1: 20:05

It's a grand narrative that most Catholics haven't been told about, but it's in the Fathers, For example St Cyril and St Augustine. If you go to our logo page, it kind of explains the logo. Under the About Us section we have these great quotes from Augustine and Cyril, so a great Eastern and a great Western father, both explaining the presence of Latin, Greek and Hebrew on above our Lord's head on the cross, in the basically the exact same way. So clearly, this was a widespread tradition. It basically showed that Christ, by assuming human nature, was assuming and, you know, basically he was bringing together revealed wisdom, philosophy and reason and practical wisdom, so represented by the Jews, the Greeks and the Romans. And you know, something that that Joel Berry quote left out was Rome and how God providentially used Rome to prepare, you know, prepare the world really for the arrival of the Messiah. So this is a this is a story world really for the arrival of the Messiah. So this is a, this is a story. It's.

Speaker 1: 21:08

I think it's very, very important to situate, you know, the doctrinal assertions of the Catholic faith within this narrative of the Catholic faith, within the story of the Catholic faith. I'm working on a podcast episode. It probably won't be for a few weeks or maybe even months, but in the intro section of um St Augustine's the Harmony of the Gospels, book one, it's this amazing laying out of this narrative where he's showing both Jews and pagans that the Old Testament scriptures of the very Jews who rejected Christ portend the coming of a Messiah who would destroy the heathen gods through the Roman Empire. And he's saying this is happening all around you. And and so it's just. When I read it, it's just, it's thrilling, it's like wow, this is an amazing, amazing story that we are part of, and it's why a Catholic doesn't have to blush about taking wisdom from Plato or Aristotle or plundering the Egyptians. As St Augustine said, all truth is God's, truth is Christ's truth, and to the extent it's true, we have nothing to fear from it.

Speaker 2: 22:15

It's Catholic, the early church. Right. Right in the first few centuries before the Roman Empire collapses, though, especially as the emperors convert, right after Constantine converts, there's this very important idea that there is one empire and this idea of Christendom right, and it comes from Daniel's prophecy about the stone kind of shattering that image and covering the world like a mountain. So this understanding that there's going to be this one empire that covers the earth and it's going to be christened them, and that gets shattered right around the time of Augustine, because the Roman empire essentially falls, right, yeah Well, the Western empire, yeah, yeah, that's true, because it continues on in the east for another thousand years, right you could argue yeah to the 1400s or so.

Speaker 1: 23:12

Although it is interesting, you know, man, this gets into so many topics. I would have prepared a bit more on this because there are details that I don't always uh, I need to refresh myself on because I'm constantly studying new things for new content. But and, by the way, everybody's been asking me about part two, I seriously get comments on X, on Facebook, on YouTube, about when are we doing part two with Dr Phimister on the Church of Rome. It's happening. He's been in the process of a big cross-country move, so I've been waiting for him to kind of get settled with his family. For anybody who has sold a house I have not, but for anybody who sold a house it can be kind of a stressful time involved process and then moving halfway across the country. So so we're almost there. We're almost there, and in that, in that second part, we'll be discussing more of the eschatological aspects.

Speaker 1: 23:57

But this goes into something we've talked about often here the restrainer of second Thessalonians 2. It's this thing, that this mysterious thing that Paul refers to, that holds back the coming of Antichrist, and many fathers thought this had somehow to do with Rome. So it's very interesting. There's many, many different threads to this, but I think the one who synthesizes it all the best is probably St Thomas Aquinas. In his commentary on2 Thessalonians, he basically says well, the Roman Empire is gone, so what is it talking about? And he said it was obedience to the Roman Church. And you know, you can find other saints.

Speaker 1: 24:30

I found some stuff from St Bruno of Cologne, the founder of the Carthusians. I think he was just a little bit before St Thomas. He basically he didn't, he didn't, I don't recall him. I think he actually did identify it with the restrainer, but he basically said that Antichrist couldn't come now, meaning in the 1100s, because if he did, he'd find a bunch of Christian princes who were obedient to the Pope and that would restrain his wickedness. He said, but when he does come, that will no longer be the case. There will no longer be princes submitted to the Pope, christian princes submitted to the Pope.

Speaker 1: 25:07

So and that that's also been an interesting thing, because I've always heard well, everybody thinks their time is the end times and that's just not been true. In my research there, there are times when different saints and even fathers think that it's closer to the end and they were incorrect. But many of the fathers and saints that I've actually dived into. They don't seem to necessarily believe that. Sometimes they'll just flat out say it can't be now because X, y, z hasn't happened yet. And interestingly enough, the things they say haven't happened yet and therefore their time couldn't be the end, have arguably happened now.

Speaker 2: 25:40

So it's very interesting. Augustine's city of God is essentially that right Because the Roman Empire is collapsing. He's witnessing the collapse of the Roman Empire and a lot of people are probably thinking the end of the world is coming. But Augustine's like no, because you're seeing the spreading of the altar throughout the world and you're seeing altars and the pagan gods are being crushed everywhere and you're still seeing the gospel being spread around and going forth upon the earth.

Speaker 1: 26:08

So Daniel has this line I think it's in Daniel 7, where it talks about the kingdom being given to the saints of the most high. And so there's this idea that St Thomas presents that basically this fourth kingdom, the Roman one, is assumed by the fifth kingdom, the Messianic kingdom. And people need to remember that the basis for the solidity of the church on earth, to the extent it is solid, is the completely solid establishment of the church triumphant in heaven. So Christ is reigning from heaven right now in a visible physical body. That's what is happening. So the kingdom is always and always growing, and that kingdom above will eventually come down and there will be a new heavens and a new earth.

Speaker 1: 26:53

So while the fortunes of the church militant, I guess, which we could think of as an outpost of the church triumphant, the fortunes of the church militant will get to a nadir, They'll be the worst they've ever been prior to and then during the time of Antichrist. But really that's just a prelude to the church triumphant being completely and eternally triumphant. So it's like, as things appear, the worst here on earth, they're actually getting closer and closer to the greatest triumph of all time and then the end of time, you know, as we enter into eternity. So just something for people to keep in mind.

Speaker 2: 27:29

Yeah, one of the one of the few topics you, you and I have talked about.

Speaker 1: 27:34

I want to can I thank Megan really quick. Megan, that is extremely kind of you. $50 a month, that's very, very kind, thank you.

Speaker 2: 27:42

Yeah, I just wanted to thank you for that. Thank you for signing up for $50 a month for Eternal Crescent.

Speaker 3: 27:47

That was very awesome.

Speaker 1: 27:50

Hey man, no, I'm kidding, that's the whole point. Just a side note. I've occasionally been accused of being a grifter.

Speaker 3: 28:05

I won't say how much money I made, but suffice to say I make less than 30 of what I made, uh, after coming out of the white house as a non-profit.

Speaker 1: 28:08

So it's uh, so it's, if I'm grifting and then it's a, it's a very uh.

Speaker 2: 28:11

I really don't your type of grifting I really don't like when people say that because, first off, you're you're you're asking for donations to the, to the organization. Like you don't get that money. This is going towards the work that you're doing. You draw a salary and your salary is set and it's voted on by a boy like there's nothing.

Speaker 1: 28:32

You're and I don't vote on that, you know yeah, that's the point.

Speaker 2: 28:34

And also people that do this kind of work deserve to be paid for it. I mean, people enjoy watching. You guys are all giving 18 a month to netflix and HBO and all this other garbage. If you're sitting and enjoying content for hours a week, why would you not want to pay for the people who are producing good content?

Speaker 1: 29:05

yeah, I agree, brian. No, thank you. And I get people's concerns, you know, you know professional Catholics. I get those concerns.

Speaker 1: 29:11

I think there are yeah, well, there are people out there who I think have used and abused being Catholic to make a profit. And I'm not. I'm not going to speculate, I it's just it's out there on occasion and I get that. I'm not going to speculate, it's just it's out there on occasion and I get that. But you know, we're a nonprofit. My salary is voted on by a board. I'm not involved in that vote because it's a conflict of interest, so I don't even set my salary.

Speaker 1: 29:33

I'm in this for, if God wills, I'm in this for the rest of my life. I promised our lady when I was Protestant but could see the writing on the wall about becoming Catholic. I said if this is your son's church, I'll spend the rest of my life defending it. So this is my attempt to make good on that promise. And check out episode 16 of our podcast. That's my interview with Nancy. You guys also had a great interview with Nancy, my sister. She's the other full-time team member. She's been extremely helpful on so many things. She literally like will keep the trains running, as they say, so I can be as focused on research and writing and bigger projects as possible. So no, we're very, very thankful. But yeah, I'm like 28% or something like that of what I used to make you know at the White House. But I mean, it's fine, I'm not in it for the money, I'm in it to get souls into the church.

Speaker 2: 30:18

I think what you're doing is different. When I say professional Catholic, when I bring that term up, I'm talking about people who are dependent upon clicks to provide for their family. So at that point you start getting more and more sensational just because your income is dependent upon it. Then now your audience captured and you're not saying what you actually believe is true because you're worried it might affect your income, things like that. Yeah, that that makes me nervous for anybody in that position. I, yeah, sorry. No, it just makes me nervous for and it's not.

Speaker 2: 30:55

It's not because even I think what they're doing is is necessarily always wrong. It's that I I've seen people lose their faith a lot of people and and what happens is you just've seen people lose their faith a lot of people, and, and what happens is you just go into top, like the faith becomes a job and I don't care what you do for a living. It gets tiresome, like baseball players. Professional baseball players get tired of going to practice, and that will happen with the faith. If you're just. This is your, the way you provide your living.

Speaker 1: 31:22

Well, look, I think at the end of the day, look, we're in an impoverished time. So, you know, the corporal works of mercy are obviously extremely important in helping support the poor. We see ourselves as supporting the poor of spirit who've not been handed on the faith, who've not been handed on any of this cultural heritage. And to the extent people are willing to support us again, about 2000 Catholicsolics with 10 a month, that gets us at least for where we are now. That means we can produce this podcast and do this research and add all this free written content indefinitely indefinitely, you know. And we're also in california, which is, you know, partly our fault, but it's just, providentially where god placed us. We, we ask father sarah, or well, saint father sarah, for uh, his prayers all the time, but, um, but uh, but yeah, it's, uh, we're, we're in it to get souls and, like we say, and yeah, Coach P is trying to drag the locals portion out of us on YouTube, but no, I uh.

Speaker 2: 32:16

Well, the reason I say that is because we I just recently had Eric Sammons on um and we've had father Maudsley on and we've had like I've I. But I'm interested to talk to you about that topic because I want to hear what you think of it from the story perspective. And I think so many people miss it from the story perspective. They get too caught up in like the politics of it, like eric sammons was so caught up in us giving money to israel. I don't care about any of that, I don't care. I don't care. Care about usury in this episode. I want to talk about the actual story of what the older brother plays in the Eschaton. Essentially, I do want to get into that, but I was going to save that for the other side.

Speaker 1: 32:57

One other comment. Sorry, I kind of blanked on it.

Speaker 2: 33:00

We can just do an AMA.

Speaker 1: 33:05

If you want to just answer comments, we can. No, no, it's what I was going to say. Just it was in response to something you said, because I think you're totally right. You know our youtube channel. We're in like 31 episodes and we're already above 16,000 subscribers. I know for a fact we could grow even faster if I was constantly doing reaction videos.

Speaker 1: 33:22

Yeah, but this is where it's. It's actually a weight off of my shoulders because our brand, such as it is, is very specific. As I said earlier, we want people to become, remain and deepen their lives as Catholics, hidden with Christ and God. And we have other parts about our mission and whatnot where we're very clear. It's about the great tradition, getting people in these sources, even if it's miniature bits.

Speaker 1: 33:45

I'm hoping we can start a text service where every day, there's a daily quote from the fathers or a saint or a great philosopher, whatever, from eternal Christendom. This, this is the treasure. So I have to sift through all of this and I do it gladly to collect the gems, the gold, the silver, whatever, and put it on a platter for people for free. That's just how I'm gifted, right, that's how I'm wired. So, by me offering that gift, there can be other people who maybe make a good living or whatnot, who offer their gift and by doing that we both produce more talents than God gave us right for the kingdom, so that hopefully we can hear well done and good. Well done, good and faithful servant.

Speaker 1: 34:17

But yeah, I think the world we're in now I mean heaven and hell are real and I don't want to have to stand before our Lord and him ask me why were you constantly just trying to instigate people, provide, why, instead of focusing on the true, the good and the beautiful, that's what we are trying to do. So anyway, oh, rob, did you do that? No, he's trying to get off the screen.

Speaker 3: 34:41

He was feeling convicted by what you were saying.

Speaker 1: 34:43

No, I'm not. I'm not accusing anybody. I'm simply I'm simply saying uh, I I'm simply saying that's how I feel about it and and there's nothing inherently wrong with reaction videos. That's not my point.

Speaker 1: 34:54

No, I don't think the reaction videos are helpful reaction listen, but but they get a sorry final sentence. They reaction videos, make things about personalities and that's not what Eternal Christenum is about. Eternal Christenum is about this Immense treasure that most of us have no clue about, but if we did, it would help us become, remain and deepen Our lives as Catholics, hidden with Christ and God, which is eternal consequences.

Speaker 2: 35:17

What I'm kind of happy to see going on In the Catholic world right now is there's a shift away from reaction Videos to the hierarchy, which I think is a very good thing. Like I, I'm happy to see that it's no longer, and if they are reaction videos, they're positive reaction videos. I'm glad it's not, uh, the, the church is collapsing, all that kind of stuff, rob and I. The reaction videos we're doing now are just if I see something that I think will lead to a good conversation. It's not even necessarily church related.

Speaker 2: 35:46

Um, that's, that's what I'll kind of react to, just because I want to give people, uh, like what's happening from a catholic perspective, like if we did discuss the joel berry situation, I do think there's a place where people absolutely see, we'll see joel berry make a comment like that the christ in Gaza aren't really Christian because they support Hamas. For a guy in the comfort of his home in America, making millions of dollars to criticize people living under a horrific situation like that and say they aren't Christiansians because they don't, they're not zionists essentially, yeah, like that's actually what they're, what his position is they're not zionists, so they're not christians. Um, I do think people need to hear a proper understanding of what is going on with that.

Speaker 1: 36:38

I agree with that. I agree with that, yeah, and thank you, tennessee too. That's very sweet of you. Thank you very much um a one million a month donation man mediocre, I need to get this mediocre historian guy to for over for coffee or something.

Speaker 1: 36:53

So no, and honestly, these you guys should cite these. You don't have to cite eternal christian and we give you the footnotes if you guys are doing a show on abortion or homosexuality. There's things about the rebuilding of the temple. There's stuff about the conversion of the Jews. There's going to be stuff more things related to the Zionist question and whatnot, from the fathers and whatnot. This is meant to be a resource for everybody. We don't need to get credit. We're just doing the work of getting it all in one place and you'll see at the top of like every one, it says updated july, whatever I, you know we're updating these all the time, you know. So it's meant to be a resource for other apologists, other evangelists, you know other other priests, you know bishops, whatever.

Speaker 2: 37:34

So there's a. There's a couple of conversations you and I have had that have sparked like thoughts in my head, where I remember you were talking about the relics of the saints and how the pagan rulers, when they saw that they were so appalled by the idea of us having relics of the saints around and the things that they accused us of. And hearing Protestants argue against relics and stuff is what made me start thinking deeper about OK, what is the idea of a patron saint? And patron saints are actually what you? They would get rid of. The principality that was in that area would get rid of the principality that was in that area. So if you had a pagan God that was worshipped in that area, now all of a sudden the new principality becomes that patron saint.

Speaker 2: 38:31

So every city would have a patron saint and the spirit of that saint would then become the spirit that ruled the city. And what you're actually loving in that saint is Christ. So every saint is actually showing a different personality, trait or something about Christ that you see in that saint. That's why all the saints are different. They do all reflect Christ in some unique way, but not exactly like Christ, because Christ has the fullness of it. But each saint has this, so a city could have the spirit of a saint to it and there would be these local customs that would develop and to a modern person looking at that, they think that's alien to them. But it's one of those things that clicked in my head that I'd never heard explained on Catholic Answers or anything like that. It actually came about through conversations with you.

Speaker 1: 39:21

Well, that's what's been so cool about reading the Fathers. There's all these incredible stories. So there's one that I plan to do an episode about, where, basically, it's relayed by several fathers, but particularly St John Chrysostom, the relics of St Babilus, which was in the late 200s, so before the conversion of constantine, but not not too long before. And so then julian the apostate, who is raised catholic, or you know, he may have an arian, but or quasi-arian, but anyway he was raised christian. And then he becomes emperor in 360 or 361. He, uh, he apostatizes. And he not only apostatizes, he tries to revive paganism. So he opens up the pagan temples, brings the pagan priest back, whatever.

Speaker 1: 40:04

So he goes to an oracle of apollo ie, a demon. Um, you know a medium for a demon, uh, I, it's not the one in um delphi in greece, it's, uh, it's, I think it's in modern syria or turkey, like right on the border there. I'm forgetting exactly where it was, but somewhere there. So he goes to consult this oracle. But the oracle you know it's a demon tells him oh well, there's these bodies nearby that you got to get out of the way. Uh, because, uh, because you know, like I can't talk, I can't reveal anything to you if they're there and uh, so they try to move the bodies, but then lightning strikes the, the oracle's temple, and it's destroyed, and that was the end of that. Well, what was he removing the?

Speaker 3: 40:47

relic of death fabulous.

Speaker 1: 40:50

You know the relics of saint babelus. The demon couldn't do anything because the relics were there and there's, there's so many of these stories and I, as a protestant, thought and yet julian the Apostate, specifically, he called Christians Galileans, he specifically attacked this veneration for relics. And so it's like why do the pagan? There are other pagans who did the same thing why do the pagans attack something that I was always told as a Protestant was consummately pagan and it's the church that's always doing it? So my Protestant narrative collapsed and I found out a bunch of frankly kick-ass stories from our ancestors about fighting the demonic.

Speaker 2: 41:31

So yeah, yeah, and there's a way that, look, if you get into a conversation with a Protestant who's trying to throw Bible verses at you, I guess you do need to know how to combat those through scripture and stuff. But explaining to even seeing um practices that all people, like secular people do, right um, and especially protestant people seeing they'll. They'll mock us for having sacramentals, things like that. And we were watching a video of a guy at a baseball game at wrrigley Field scooping the dirt up at Wrigley Field to take home with him and it just dawned on me that's a sacramental. This guy's taking a sacramental of his secular religion and he'll probably go home and be a Protestant and tell us that we're crazy for having holy water.

Speaker 1: 42:18

But it's the same thing.

Speaker 2: 42:20

This religious instinct is in all of us, and Protestants have it too. They just replaced it on because their understanding of grace and nature is so disordered that they don't see how grace perfects nature and that these things are very important tim gordon, if you think about it, the uh practice of uh keeping a cremated loved one in an urn on your, like your table.

Speaker 3: 42:46

I mean, you're just keeping because you think everyone's a saint.

Speaker 2: 42:50

You know, you're just keeping a relic of a family saint on your table and the same people that will tell you that, uh, the you know, mary, can't hear your prayers. When their mother passes, the first thing they'll do is Mom was smiling down on me from heaven.

Speaker 2: 43:05

It's just instinctual for all of us to have that. It's intuitive and I think the church early on had that intuition and saw it. And then God granted these little miracles. When we would keep the relics of the saints around and when people would pray a novena to a saint, God would grant these miracles so that you would develop a devotion to that saint. And that's actually how the understanding of the communion of saints develops through the centuries.

Speaker 1: 43:32

KB said Anthony is more insightful than Rob gives him credit for. You know, anthony, this is the only thing I'm going to say nice publicly for six months. I actually agree with KB.

Speaker 2: 43:46

So, josh, I have my moments.

Speaker 1: 43:48

It's not no, they're, they're I agree with rob that anthony can be quite ridiculous on occasion. But no, I I do think anthony does have some pretty darn good insights sometimes and it's, and I appreciate it.

Speaker 2: 44:00

So it's look, you have to do the humor and the goofy stuff at times, because that's kind of what we try to do on this show.

Speaker 1: 44:06

There are times I need a slander the sins of the tongue.

Speaker 3: 44:11

Yeah, I got to do that.

Speaker 2: 44:13

But there are times for deeper discussion where I do like having conversations with people who are a little level smarter than me, and then having that conversation with them will give me a little bit of a an insight into something and it's and it's something that I get to work out on air and I find I find those conversations would be my favorite.

Speaker 1: 44:30

Absolutely. Yeah, no, so I I give you credit, Anthony. Oh, I don't need your credit.

Speaker 2: 44:34

I just want the audience to be entertained. I know how. I think is it in Matthew 24, where Jesus tells the apostles that they will sit on thrones judging the 12 tribes of Israel.

Speaker 1: 44:50

Apocalypse, Matthew 12, you said I thought it was Matthew 24 at the destruction of the temple?

Speaker 2: 44:58

No, I believe it's Matthew 24.

Speaker 1: 44:59

I'm sorry, matthew 12. Excuse me, matthew 12. Matthew 12. I thought it was when he was prophesying the destruction of the temple. I can look it up, matthew 12. Matthew 12. I thought.

Speaker 2: 45:04

I have an article about this. I can look it up. Yeah, look it up, because the I saw that as the same thing as patron saints being the principalities governing these, like you will sit in thrones as principal. And when St Paul talks about we are not up against flesh and blood, but principalities and powers, yeah, about we are not up against flesh and blood, but principalities and powers, yeah, the saints are the, the it's the church spreading on earth that is defeating those principalities and powers, and it kind of goes into the restrainer uh, uh thesis. You, you talked about with us that, that the first and second time you came on where, as, as the, as the spirit of god's, matthew 19 we were both luke matthew 19, luke 22 and then apocalypse 20.

Speaker 2: 45:49

Yeah, okay so as as the spirit of, as god's spirit is covering the earth and the church, is spreading and they are developing these devotions to the saints, they become these principalities and the and the devil is then restrained for a period and it seems like we're in a time where the restraints are being lifted off, the devil yeah, I think Apocalypse 20 provides the grand narrative of history post-incarnation.

Speaker 1: 46:18

So verses 1 through 3 describe the angel of God and I think it's Christ, and many fathers interpret it as Christ, or describe the angel of God and I think it's Christ, and many fathers interpret it as Christ. They don't necessarily interpret that verse in Apocalypse 20 as Christ per se, although many do. Several do. They describe Christ in other places, you know, binding the strong man and binding the dragon. They describe it similarly in other commentary.

Speaker 1: 46:40

So 1 through 3 is that this great dragon is bound and he's thrown into a pit, not to hell, thrown into a pit. And then at verse four it says thrones were set up. That's awesome, ethan, yeah, that's awesome. But in verse 4, it talks about thrones being set up for those to whom judgment was committed, so that's the bishops, that's the apostles and their successors, and that's verses 4 through 6, I think. Then at verse 7, it talks about the dragon being released for a brief time to bring Gog and Magog against the city of God, so the church and then, and then Christ returns and he is judged and cast into hell. So I, if somebody put a gun to my head and I had to pick, I'd say we're at about verse seven, you know, or somewhere right at the edge of verse six, getting into seven, yeah.

Speaker 2: 47:35

So that could be wrong. It's not black pilling, okay. So every time I try to get into talking about this stuff, I always have rob knocking me down and telling me oh, nothing, ever happens.

Speaker 3: 47:45

I'm sorry, I find it and I need ryan thank you very, very much.

Speaker 2: 47:50

That's very kind of you somebody on with me that's willing to to go kind of where my mind is going, because I see all hell breaking loose around us. I feel like I might be the only one. I don't know.

Speaker 1: 48:06

Hey the Roman, I know you're probably joking and there's some truth, but no, I mean I'll refer to what I said earlier. Let's say this is true. Let's say we're in about verse seven, so we're getting. You know, we're obviously closer to the end than when Christ died, obviously. But let's say that it's within our lifetimes, which I do think is a possibility for a multitude of reasons. I'm not going to set dates.

Speaker 1: 48:26

The church solemnly says we shouldn't do that, but. But so Christ? Christ says that no man knows the hour, but he also chastises people for not knowing the signs of the time. So there's got to be a healthy medium. But if we are in that time, that means that the church is literally at her absolute biggest and is about to peak. The end times come when all the elect have come in. That's the point. All the elect from the four corners of the earth have been brought in. That's why the restraint is no longer necessary, because the passion of the church, it dies, it resurrects. Boom, it's all done, we win. So it means we're closer to the ultimate victory. Actually.

Speaker 3: 49:03

There's nothing to blackmail about. Look at it this way, guys If Josh is right, your monthly donations to Eternal Christian will not go as long as you think they will.

Speaker 1: 49:12

No, we're helping, no, no no, no. If we're helping bring in those last elect into the church, you know, by going into the tradition.

Speaker 2: 49:22

So yeah, have you guys read the end of the. I don't mean to ruin the story on you guys, but you know we kind of win in the end. Let me give the roman.

Speaker 1: 49:29

Let me give the roman the. Let me give the devil his due, not calling him the devil, but but um, he's, he's he's being sarcastic, by the way, like what he's.

Speaker 1: 49:36

I know he is, but no, but this but this point, it's not him specifically, but this point, because I think I know what he means and and and this. I think those who make similar points, I think I know what they mean because I've gone through it myself. You know, I'm an, I'm a mid-level millennial. Um, yeah, that's a, that's a good point. Uh, who I King? Deplorables. I think that's a decent point too, but I still think, yeah, anyway, we'll go into that later. You got ADD man, you're the worst.

Speaker 3: 50:07

I'm trying to follow.

Speaker 2: 50:09

Then he reads the chat. He gets so sick I'm normally- very focused Phone is off. Nancy will tell you. I'll tell her.

Speaker 1: 50:17

I'm really focused on something. When it's distracting, I'm like it's better than Sam.

Speaker 3: 50:23

When Sam reads our chat, he starts calling people and talks about their mother.

Speaker 1: 50:29

Sam Shamoon Sam.

Speaker 3: 50:30

Shamoon.

Speaker 1: 50:33

Are the books? No, they're definitely real. Andy Mike Rust. Definitely, they're definitely real. Andy mike rust. Yeah, they're definitely real.

Speaker 2: 50:40

Um, I forgot I totally am blanking on the point I was making the end times we were talking about and if we're coming to the end of the story, um, people converting, people converting all the gentiles coming in, I I was going to say even the idea that the church is no longer really doing missions like we did in times past, like there's not really a missionary church anymore. To me, seeing all of the things around us that we are even the the rise of this weird um, like the return of these weird sex cults and things like that, I know what I was gonna say yeah, okay.

Speaker 3: 51:25

Yeah, I know I was trying to spring your mind to as an american.

Speaker 1: 51:29

As an american, you know, born in 1988, you know, I grew up in the tail end of reagan's presidency. We're about to beat the Soviets, you know, supposedly at least, we enter the unipolar moment where, you know, kind of like after right after world war II, we are like the big dog bar none. Well, that's ending. And so I think the spirit behind the people who talk about black pulling and whatnot is that there are so many assumptions about our country and the direction of the world that I had kind of growing up Some of that was just childhood naivete that we all have, but I think a lot of it was just genuine, like if I mean we've talked about this before like stuff in the 90s, like shows and movies. They were just a lot more optimistic. Right, Things are a lot darker now, just in general. So there's a part of me.

Speaker 3: 52:14

That is the whole like dark and gritty. You know way of making movies like yeah happened in the 2000s, right yeah, well, and I, I don't think it.

Speaker 1: 52:22

Yeah, I think 9-11 yeah, 9-11 was a game changer in this regard. Yeah, and, and so, yeah, I, I think we are. We are having to crucify our, um, our vision of what we thought we could take for granted. I think that's drastically changed for most people. I know it's drastically changed for me. I don't take the stock market for granted. I don't take our currency for granted. You know, we inflated it by over 6 trillion in April 2020 under Biden oh, I'm sorry, not Biden, somebody else, that's for you know, um, but, um, you know so. So there's just a lot of things I don't take for granted, but I'm so glad, in the midst of that, I've become Catholic because our faith teaches.

Speaker 1: 53:06

I had this wonderful quote I read from St Pope Gregory the Great. If I can read it to you guys, I posted it on X earlier today because it's related to this and he talks about this a lot yeah, here, it is Dearly beloved. Let us follow the strict, rough way of our Redeemer. Let us disregard all present things. Whatever can pass away is worth nothing, and it is shameful to love what is certain to perish quickly. Let us not be overcome by love of earthly things, nor inflated by pride, nor torn apart by anger, nor defiled by dissipation, nor devoured by envy.

Speaker 1: 53:41

Our Redeemer, dearly beloved, died out of love for us. Let us learn to conquer ourselves out of love for him. If we do it perfectly, we not only escape impending punishments, but are rewarded with glory, in common with the martyrs. This is not a time of persecution, yet our peace also has its martyrdom. Even if we do not submit our necks to the metal sword, still we are putting to death the carnal desires in our hearts with a spiritual sword, that's homily one on Matthew 12, 46 to 50. So that's what our faith teaches, and so I'm having to learn it. All the time I've been talking in all these interviews, like there's new layers. God is revealing to me all the time where I need to be more detached, more detached, more detached, and have my mind more focused on eternal things.

Speaker 2: 54:26

Well, for me. I got caught up in the hopium of this election early on when I saw the assassination attempt. I was like you know, and trump was talking about ending the war in ukraine on day one and I got caught up a little bit in the hopium and then I just had this stark reality hit me and I said this country is spending money on the most insane things. There's absolutely no attempt to correct course whatsoever.

Speaker 1: 54:56

The war is escalating can you put up michael jc doe or do his comment. I would say that we need. I think that's exactly right. Yeah, absolutely, that's 100 correct and honestly, this is honestly what nancy has helped me do because, as much as possible, because I I don't like to be talking all the time. I really I can talk a lot because i't like to be talking all the time. I really I can talk a lot because I'm frankly in this stuff all the time.

Speaker 1: 55:19

So when I'm in an interview, like most of my days are very quiet, um, but when I'm on these interviews, like a torrent of whatever, so um, but I completely agree and that's why, st John Anthony, you and I have talked about St John a lot, like St John and our lady and how saint john is is, um, saint john is mysteriously quiet when he knows what's about to happen to our lord and he doesn't stop it very, very and I'm still contemplating that. You know, as our lord, you know, peter wants to be all active and chop off ears and all this stuff, and our lord rebukes him, whereas who is told who the, who the betrayer is? You know, our Lord tells him, apparently privately from the passion narrative in John, but he doesn't say who it is, he doesn't try to stop it, he doesn't do some campaign against it. So yeah, I think that sweet spot of wisdom is for us.

Speaker 1: 56:14

To somebody said, I think, cigar mode, that ultimately it's our own end times, I completely agree with that. I would still say, being aware of the signs of the times, I would say it's brought me a great deal of peace. Actually, I've never lived life more day to day than since COVID, which I consider apocalyptic, and I it's. I've actually found it easier to detach from earthly things, not perfect, but easier to do so with this sort of more eschatological framework in mind, looking at the signs of the times in light of what the fathers have taught.

Speaker 2: 56:48

So, for what it's worth, yeah, I just see the trajectory. We're on with the way they're spending money, with the way that the wars are. We're on with the way they're spending money, with the way that the wars are escalating, with the tensions between Russia and Ukraine, with the tensions with China, with everything. Everything's just escalating. With all this crap going on over in the Middle East. There's no attempt to actually correct course, so I'm just watching things amp up and amp up. Plus, I have this whole idea of what happened on the Trump's first term with COVID, and I'm kind of just waiting for the next thing that they're going to drop on us and tell us it's an emergency and it's going to be another thing that you have to do if you want to be able to participate in society, and it just felt like all of that stuff that happened in 2020 was just a foreshadow of something big that's on the horizon and I don't see any attempt to stop any of it.

Speaker 1: 57:41

there's no there's no attempt.

Speaker 2: 57:42

There's no attempt to to repent at all. It's the same thing that I said with the, with the, with the priest summit, uh, with the sex summit in rome under francis, when he called all the bishops after the mccarrick scandals. If those men had gone to rome and all Sackloth and Ash, and begged God's forgiveness for the sins they committed, the whole world would have changed. But that's not happening anywhere. It's not happening in the church, it's not happening outside of the church. So there's no way any of this gets fixed without that happening, unless God chastises us and does a correct correction. I don't I. That has to come.

Speaker 1: 58:19

Well, look, I've mentioned it often but for maybe some of the audience who don't know, the fathers are unanimous about number a number of things, but one particular thing related to antichrist. And what the fathers are unanimous about is binding per session four of the council of Trent and the creed issued by Pope Pius. The fourth, which was my oath upon coming into the Catholic Church. Thank you, FSSB. The Fathers are unanimous that Antichrist will bring the public sacrifice of the Mass to an end for three and a half years, basically worldwide. That happened not for three and a half years, but that happened in 2020. It is the single closest we have ever been in the history of the world to what Antichrist himself will do, bar none. So people can interpret that however they want. I interpret it as apocalyptic. I don't think it's anything less than apocalyptic, and some people's red flag came with Epstein, Mine came in 2020. So I'll leave it at that.

Speaker 2: 59:21

Epstein is just, I don't know.

Speaker 1: 59:25

Now they're trying to move on to obama. It's, it's all.

Speaker 2: 59:28

It's all just a show, like the whole as soon as that thing happens and they just want to keep us divided. So what they do is now they're bringing up the stuff from the 2016 election the Russia hoax again on giving us all stuff we knew already and acting like it's new. And Tulsi Gabbard's coming out and telling us and she's acting like this is this is riveting information. We knew all of this already. There's nothing new. Nobody's going to get arrested. It's just. It's a way to keep up the dialectic of left versus right or republican versus democrat. Everything is a show.

Speaker 1: 1:00:00

It's all nonsense which is very occultic. Uh, rob, if you're able, are you able to pull up the war of the antichrist with the church and christian civilization from tan, the book I edited like the actual contents of the book the cut into the cover of it, like the amazon picture or something like that.

Speaker 1: 1:00:15

People need to read this. I think it's chapter like 17 or something. I could be wrong. It's the late teens, I think, but it's something like that. It's the called the intellectual and the war party and masonry, and it basically says that part of the standard operating.

Speaker 1: 1:00:28

This was written in 1885, by the way, and this book was endorsed by pope leo the 13th. I read it during the lockdowns in 2020. I found it and I was reading it. I was like, oh my gosh, this is stunningly prophetic. 1885, I found an old Catholic magazine article from 1885 or six that said the pontiff endorsed the work and paid for its translation several thousand copies into Italian. It was written by Monsignor George Dillon, but he basically said it was standard operating procedure for occult societies to try to gain control of both sides and play them against each other. Yeah, so, um, if people have not gotten this book, check it out. Um, honestly, the royalties are abs are minuscule, and so I'm not. I, I'm just it. It's. It's just oddly comforting to see that this has been foreseen for so long, whether it's whether it's the end of times or just an end of our time, as my friend Scott Hahn says, but the thing is.

Speaker 2: 1:01:28

The thing is the reason I think it's so important to talk about the story of how Christianity spreads after the ascension and how it kind of. It's because you see that God is the one who has his hand on history the entire time and, no matter what you think is happening now, all things will work for the good for those who love God and he's going to use all of these horrific things that are happening right now. All will glorify him in the end. So it looks like the church is impotent at the moment and the church is not doing anything at the moment, but that impotence will then be used to glorify God in the end. But it's why I kind of stopped getting riled up about the papacy and all that stuff. It's just everything we're seeing is part of the story and you just have to wait until it plays out and you'll understand it.

Speaker 2: 1:02:17

In hindsight. I understand that what my life looked like when I left the sacraments. So I had a period where I left the sacraments and how things kind of devolved in my life, because once you fall into mortal sin, the chasm between you and God just gets greater and greater. And coming back to the sacraments, how much that restored just sanity within my whole family life, sanity in every aspect of my life my relationship with God, my relationship with my wife, my children, everything. So I don't really care about what Leoo's doing anymore. I'm just like this is going to play out and god will will understand it in hindsight. It's how all prophecy works without all things you never see god's hand in the moment. You just understand he had his hand in it in in hindsight. So I don't get myself worked up about the stuff in r anymore. I kind of just accept that God will do something with it.

Speaker 1: 1:03:19

Yeah, I don't, I don't care, quote unquote in the sense that I don't care unless the Pope has something to bind me to as a Catholic. You know formally, and that's the outlook of most Catholics throughout most of history I mean even many church fathers who spoke very strongly about the papacy. Most of the time they're just teaching their flocks that you know there's not really going to have much going on with. Remind me, anthony, what you just said in three months, ok, yeah because I'll change my chair, because I go.

Speaker 2: 1:03:45

I go back and forth on this stuff.

Speaker 3: 1:03:48

I'm not someone earlier.

Speaker 1: 1:03:49

Oh, I know, I know it's been about three months since he blackmailed last, so he's right on schedule well, but you know, I think the the internet has brought many wonderful things.

Speaker 1: 1:04:01

I mean, we're able to do this live stream. That's great. One of the horrific things that is brought I'm talking about this more and more on different podcast interviews I do is, by virtualizing, everything is detached us from our concrete duties, so it makes people get have this false sense of urgency that they have, like some, that really we should only have for the things we have control over. Right, I don't have control over what's happening in Rome. I don't have control over what's happening in DC. I don't have control over anything in that.

Speaker 1: 1:04:27

Those are not, that's not part of my um, fickle and inconsistent. He's Italian, come on, um, come on. But but I don't have control over these things. I don't have a, I don't. Jesus Christ will not ask me what did you do on these things in the in anything but the most cursory way. I highly, highly doubt it, at least, and so. But in the meantime, I have people right in front of me. I have family members right in front of me. I have friends right in front of me. I have poor people right in front of me, homeless people right in front of me, people struggling with family breakdown, drugs, you know, medical issues, whatever. Those are all right in front of me and so many times, so many of us are draining our energy, our time, our resources away from that stuff. But that's the stuff that.

Speaker 2: 1:05:16

Jesus Christ will ask us an answer for. So we need to be very careful about that. Yeah, this is and this is a very real situation um, worrying about scandal for them, for the masses from from prelate and messes from the prelates, etc. Is the confusion I agree, for those of us trying to bring those close to us into the church and keeping those.

Speaker 1: 1:05:29

That's what eternal christian is trying to do. That's when, when we fill out this quote archive, look up the judas within quote archive. It's very minuscule right now. There's going to be a lot more in there soon.

Speaker 1: 1:05:37

I just I've just standardized all this stuff, but that's what it's meant to do, cause guess what, when you can read a bunch of saints and church fathers talking about how bad it's been in their time that's part of why I'm Catholic there's like a certain threshold of knowledge which, once you pass it, it's like okay, I get it. The family has all sorts of problems, but it's the only one that God has promised to protect forever and to keep, and through infallibility God has promised this is the way I'm phrasing it more just, in kind of a more layman's way Infallibility is God's promise. Ooh, that's awesome. Infallibility is God's promise that, to be in his family, we will never be required to believe a lie. That's what infallibility that's, I think, another way and a good way of expressing what infallibility is. We, as Catholics, will never be required to believe a lie, to be Catholics in good standing, and so that's a beautiful thing.

Speaker 2: 1:06:27

And in Daniel he says once the kingdom comes, its sovereignty will not be given to another people. Correct? Which means, as as messy as things get, the kingdom will not pass to another people, it will just it and the gates of hell will not prevail. But it's gonna sure look like it, and that's the whole point of the promise, so that you look like when jesus was killed.

Speaker 2: 1:06:55

Yeah, so your faith isn't shaken. For those of you who trust God, it's going to get messy, and Jesus warned us it will get messy. It's going to be like we, like the apostles during the passion, and they all run because they think he can't possibly be the Messiah. You'll think it can't possibly be the church look at all the crap going on but God will use it for good in the end. Now, um, all right, we're at an hour and seven, last question have you seen common tholiness?

Speaker 1: 1:07:25

I think he means thoroughness and themes covered in most instances of apocalyptic visions, uh, be they from scripture, from private revelation. I'm not 100 certain what he means, but um, common through lines and themes covered through lines. I didn't see the r. It was really small on my screen. Okay, through lines, have you seen?

Speaker 2: 1:07:44

common, through lines and penance, themes covered in the most instances of apocalyptic visions, be they from do penance? Yeah, get be more radical, and you're right every time our lady appears she tells us penance, penance, penance. So um, I I do want all right, so we had Eric.

Speaker 3: 1:08:00

Sammons on.

Speaker 2: 1:08:02

Oh, you got a few. All right, we'll do the questions first and then we're going to go to the other side.

Speaker 1: 1:08:06

Oh, pathological lifter. Oh sorry, we should go to pathological lifter's question next, not addressing the fact my friend's Protestant was the absolute first thing I should give him to read from the church fathers and his Protestant was the absolute first thing I should give him to read from the church fathers.

Speaker 1: 1:08:18

The letters of St Ignatius of Antioch, my patron saint, particularly the letter to the Smyrnians however you pronounce it, jimmy Akin's Father's no Best is a good one too, but honestly, the quote archives on eternalchristiancom are now way beyond what Jimmy has in his book and it's all for free.

Speaker 3: 1:08:37

Yeah, I'm saying it's like a, and you don't have to worry about aliens.

Speaker 1: 1:08:40

Yeah, I love that book, I endorse it and I give it. I suggest it to everybody. But if you don't want to spend $30, go to the Eternal Christendom website.

Speaker 2: 1:08:51

And we do have a theory on a few things about you, of why you haven't been on certain shows. What me? We'll talk about it on the other, yes, you, oh, okay.

Speaker 3: 1:09:02

We have a theory. I thought it was one thing. There's no other side tonight. Ant oh locals, no good. Well, I mean I could make a entirely separate stream that we'd have to it looks like it's up and running.

Speaker 2: 1:09:14

Just to be clear. I don't give a.

Speaker 3: 1:09:15

I don't. It looks like it's up and running.

Speaker 1: 1:09:16

Just to be clear, I don't. I don't give. This is not up and running. I don't give a damn about what shows I'm on or not I this is something that my I'm not gonna, I'm not gonna talk, I'm not gonna talk about that on this I'm not gonna mention it, but they care about it more than I do.

Speaker 2: 1:09:25

Just to be all right, so there's no local show, so we're just gonna do it here. So okay, so we had eric salmons on recently.

Speaker 3: 1:09:30

There's five more questions go ahead, we can do the show we're not leaving okay, fine, keep going I mean whatever.

Speaker 2: 1:09:39

Whatever I get to them may as well go ahead.

Speaker 1: 1:09:43

Uh, especially if that's the one you wanted to talk about josh our attending origins of all the abuse of my as a form of complicity. Yeah, I mean. Yeah, I think that things like that are happening. I I don't I it I talk about. I've done multiple threads that when Balenciaga happened, the weird stuff that happened there, I've done multiple, multiple threads. I literally just said the other day that when the Catholic church was restraining sorcery is that what it was restraining is now in power and multiple temporal powers in the world, and that does involve witchcraft and sorcery, occultism and a lot of that stuff involves child sacrifice, contraception, abortion, undoubtedly.

Speaker 1: 1:10:24

Now who and what and to what extent, I don't claim to know. Frankly, I'd rather read these guys and get resources to you guys. That's right. Time is so limited guys. Time is so, so limited. I do believe there are people doing really, really wicked and evil things with children. I do believe that, but guess what? I believe it. So I'm moving on. I'm going to combat it with this stuff. That's what I. That's where I am spending my time for the sake of my own soul and everybody else's soul. So, like, don't go down rabbit holes too much. You do not have a duty to know all the details related to these things and, frankly, it probably wouldn't do your soul very good if you did know all the details.

Speaker 3: 1:10:59

So do you know of any church fathers who spoke about St Mary Magdalene?

Speaker 1: 1:11:06

Oh, yeah, tons. I don't remember them off the top of my head but yeah, she comes up a lot. I was just reading a homily from the Cistercian Publications puts out the homilies of on the Gospels of St Pope Gregory the Great, and I think I literally just ran into one of his homilies this morning when I was reading. I read like three homilies this morning that mentioned her. So she's all over the place. So a good way to figure that out is see the verses she's mentioned and then look up biblical commentaries from the fathers or sermons or homilies on those parts of. Or you can just do a text search. You know, type in mag. I wouldn't type in mary magdalene, I type in just magdalene.

Speaker 2: 1:11:43

Um, I'm gonna put this up because morticool is like one of their biggest supporters and he does this on every, pretty much every show he's always promoting latin slavs, but they're. They're. They're a they're younger group of guys trying to get their pockets of the ground, and I don't ever mind promoting those guys.

Speaker 1: 1:11:58

They're good guys, yeah, very good guys. Yeah, I mean, if they reach. We have a contact us portal on the website. Go to eternalchristiancom about us and then there's a contact form. So just reach out that way and then JD's.

Speaker 3: 1:12:11

Yep, what do you think about the? Or what do all of us think about the ethics of real estate investing and landlording?

Speaker 1: 1:12:20

Hmm, I haven't thought about it enough. I, I still rent.

Speaker 3: 1:12:25

I live in California.

Speaker 1: 1:12:26

I'm not sure when people say I'm grifting, it's like well, at my former income I could have afforded a house, no problem now, Uh, not so much so.

Speaker 2: 1:12:33

I would say listen to new polity on that. Those guys, they're really good New Polity when it comes to even 401ks and investments and things like that. They're probably the best guys to listen to on that.

Speaker 1: 1:12:50

Somebody else had a really good question, josh the Giovanna or Giovanni JD I may have just missed when you elaborate on our alien demons, I don't think it's that simple. I do think the phenomenon is mostly demonic. Yes, I do have a lot of thoughts on it that I wasn't prepared for tonight, but I can say the gist of what I think is going on and I am more open about it now. Basically, the pre-incarnation world governance was pagans allied with the demonic to rule the people. I think that's just. The gods of the nations are demons, as saint paul says I think he's quoting psalms or something like that so that was shattered and not completely wiped out on earth by christ, but it's. It's it Christ, but it had its back broken. That's the angel binding the dragon and throwing him into the pit in Apocalypse 20, verses 1 through 3. And then I think it's coming back. It's the strong man who's bound, his goods are plundered from the house. That's the elect being brought into the church, but then he comes back with seven more demons. So I think that system of governance of the world has been, you know, utterly through Christ's permission, but been allowed to come back, and so I actually.

Speaker 1: 1:14:04

So there was a video I watched that I've never mentioned this publicly. It's not like I would have been more embarrassed about it several years ago, but it's actually very, very interesting. So there's this video I watched during the lockdowns. A friend sent it to me. This guy I don't endorse this guy, but he's a funny British guy. He does a lot of research into Shakespeare, the identity of Shakespeare. There's actually a legitimate debate about was Shakespeare one person or like an academic debate? So it's kind of mainstream.

Speaker 1: 1:14:35

So anyway, he analyzed the front page of the sonnets of Shakespeare, um, graphically, and he, he like, did it with, uh, math and whatnot. Long story. This sounds nuts. If you go, I'm forgetting if I, maybe I can look up the video and share with you guys, cause it has kind of an innocuous name but it Sounds like the Bible code sort of thing. No, no, no, it's even more crazy.

Speaker 1: 1:14:56

And he shows it all on his website. Oh yeah, I'll try to find it. It's Shakespeare Equation Pyramid. Look up something like that. It's about a 12 to 13 minute video, spacing of all the stuff. On this page are encoded mathematical constants that, as of that year, according to the standard historical timeline, had not yet been discovered, things that wouldn't come for a century, to sometimes even into the 20th century, mathematical constants that had not been discovered. You listening, italian, yeah, making sure. So then he shows, and he shows it very, very logically, no step of it seems like a stretch to me. He comes up with a set of coordinates through angles, you know, east, west or whatever they are, northeast, whatever the longitude, latitude, type stuff is, comes up with a set of angles, and the angles give a set of coordinates, and you put those coordinates into Google Maps and I typed them all out myself just to verify and you go and he says where will this lead? Boom, 300 feet away from the great pyramid of giza so okay so so why?

Speaker 1: 1:16:08

why am I saying that? Because this will sound completely unrelated. So here's why I say that I do believe that there has been a knowledge of nature that is a cult, meaning secret, and has been passed down by some and is the result of demonic alien, I'm sorry, demonic human collaboration maybe. No, no, no that, yeah, maybe, I don't know. I there's so much about this, I don't know, and his theory and conjecture, but I, I I do feel quite certain that there's demonic human collaboration throughout history that has maintained I wasn't expecting taste I don't, I don't always give all my opinions about things.

Speaker 2: 1:16:52

I I'm getting more to the point for various reasons getting more like anthony well, I'm waiting for the finish because I'm going to roll up with this topic.

Speaker 1: 1:17:01

I got, so I do believe that some of this collaboration and advanced scientific knowledge is real and it can lead to advanced technology that can then be used by this collaboration to bring about false signs and wonders. So are aliens demons? I don't know. I've heard, I think some of them are. I've actually literally I've shared some quotes from Eusebius the church historian, where he literally talks about demons inhabiting the air and causing certain phenomena. The way he describes it is extremely similar to the UAP stuff and he says we've been taught to believe that this is the demonic realm, et cetera. I forget the exact wording of the quote, but this is why I write all this stuff down in quote archives, because I just simply can't remember everything.

Speaker 1: 1:17:46

But yeah, so here's the other angle. Exorcists will talk about demons possessing people, but they don't possess their soul, they possess their body, so they essentially take. When you're perfectly possessed, the motor functions of your body are taken over by this spirit, this fallen spirit. Do I know this is happening? No, one of my theories is that this advanced scientific knowledge could perhaps be creating a sort of physical substrate, because we cannot create souls. Human beings cannot create souls of animals, of whatever. Only god creates souls. So if they, want.

Speaker 3: 1:18:24

But if they wanted to create, really create physical objects, correct?

Speaker 1: 1:18:29

as far as I'm aware yeah, as far as I'm aware. So if this demonic human collaboration could create a biological entity, and then that biological entity is perfectly possessed by a fallen spirit that can animate it and make it appear as if it's another creature, I think that's possibly what's going on. We've done this, Blessed Carl.

Speaker 3: 1:18:48

Look up blue collar eschatology.

Speaker 1: 1:18:51

I wouldn't be surprised if some of these craft are absolutely real, but are the result of human demonic collaboration that has led to technological wonders that appear magical to us. Yeah, Okay.

Speaker 2: 1:19:02

So there's a. If you go to the ancient world and you see all of the ancient structures they're all built with, like to coordinate with the constellations and stars in heaven, yeah, to coordinate with the constellations and stars in heaven, yeah, this kind of as the Christian, as the kingdom, spreads upon the earth, this pagan worship which really has to do with all of these structures and things like that, all of this worship of the principalities in the heavens goes away as the Christian altars are going away and we're turning our churches into dance halls and wedding venues and selling them off to let them be mosques and things like that. These entities are returning. They're calling them non-human intelligences. For every period in human history there has been a category for non-human intelligences. For every period in human history there has been a category for non-human intelligences like the. The ancient world all had a place for this and they were the principalities and powers. It's that these were the demonic entities that we, that they dealt with and that they understood in the ancient world.

Speaker 2: 1:20:13

You get into modern times and because we have such a materialistic worldview after the Enlightenment and even the Protestant idea that there's only one God, not understanding that there are false gods out there and that because I remember even my idea of Christianity growing up was that that stuff was nonsense, that there are no. You know, maybe there's a devil, but there's not spirits prowling about the earth seeking the ruin of souls, things like that. Now that the Christian altars are going away, now that we no longer have processions with incense, these spirits are coming back and, you see, people want to worship something. So it's just replacing God and and christianity, it's just a replacement religion going in I, I think there's no.

Speaker 3: 1:21:01

Um, I don't think it's coincidence that you have, like, the whole spiritualist and in theosophy movement begin right before the second industrial revolution. Yeah, then you have the whole hippie movement begin right at the beginning of the third industrial revolution, you know.

Speaker 1: 1:21:19

So I, I do think you can really tie occult movements directly to, like, increases in technology yeah, and I I do believe there are genuine technological advancements, but I I felt by the way, rob, I sent you the link to that video, the youtube video. I found it. It's about 13 minutes, if people want to watch it. Utterly fascinating, utterly fascinating Again. Do I dive into this stuff too much? No, because I think some of it's dangerous. But once I know certain things, I know certain things.

Speaker 1: 1:21:52

Shakespeare's sonnets on the original title page it was encoding mathematical constants that, according to the standard historical timeline, were centuries away from being discovered, but somebody knew it. Somebody knew it. So here is the line from Eusebius. This is from Proof of the Gospel, book 3, chapter 3. I posted this a while ago. It said he referring to Christ. He taught us to believe that there are enemies of our race flying in the air that surrounds the earth and that there dwell, with the wicked powers of demons, evil spirits and their rulers, whom we are taught to flee from with all our strength, even if they usurp for themselves without limit, god's name and prerogatives, and that they are to be shunned even more because of their warfare and enmity against God. Just found that to be very, very interesting and light us up.

Speaker 1: 1:22:42

There are some things I do know about I can't talk about. What I will say is that there is big money, powerful money, involved in some of these efforts. It's not a joke. I don't know where it's going to end. It's not a joke. I don't know where it's going to end. It doesn't seem benign. It just doesn't seem benign to me. And there are things that are going on Again since COVID. It's just so interesting. There are things that have been going To me. It's not, ooh, what these people are saying, I believe per se, about the aliens or the UAP or the UFOs. That's not the point. The point is that there is now a bipartisan consensus that at least wants me to believe certain things about this stuff. Okay, so anytime both sides are telling me this is what's going on, I'm like what is this for? What is it for?

Speaker 2: 1:23:32

we, we think, our theory is that your, your position on aliens is actually what is is preventing you from going on certain places.

Speaker 1: 1:23:43

Really yeah, aliens, creationism, creationism I don't really talk about creationism. Don't tell me you believe in evolution.

Speaker 2: 1:23:54

I'm sorry. Do you believe in evolution?

Speaker 1: 1:23:57

I know Not really, but I make it sure I haven't dived into it very much yeah it's not the church dogmatically expects me to believe that Adam and Eve were one, one person each, and they existed, and that's what I believe. So, beyond that, it's utterly fascinating and I'm open to whatever. So.

Speaker 2: 1:24:17

Okay, all right, so let's change topics here. I want to get into this with you because we had you on last time. We kind of got caught up in the weeds with like how do we handle the Jew? I don't care about like getting into specifics like that. What I want to talk about is the enmity between the older brother and the younger brother in Scripture in the Old Testament, the older brother and the younger brother in scripture in the old Testament, how that plays out and then how that enmity exists after the Ascension, after the destruction of the temple. There's that enmity between the older brother and younger brother for 2000 years building up. There's always been that and it seems like the church after the events of world war two.

Speaker 1: 1:25:01

McDermott, can I say one that, mcdermdermott? Sorry, I am looking at the chats. Big money coming from where, charles? Uh venture capitalists sorry, venture capitalists, I can't let you on a live show you have to do a prerequisite.

Speaker 2: 1:25:12

This is insane. Everything. You're not listening to anything I'm saying. You're reading the stupid chat I am.

Speaker 1: 1:25:17

I am trying to. You gotta stop. Pay attention to the I'm trying to. You got to stop.

Speaker 2: 1:25:20

Pay attention to the host.

Speaker 1: 1:25:21

He's trying to get a good discussion going.

Speaker 2: 1:25:23

All right, all right.

Speaker 3: 1:25:24

This has been my favorite episode.

Speaker 2: 1:25:26

This is my least favorite conversation with Josh because he's not listening. I'm trying to get a conversation going. He keeps reading the stupid chat. We're doing prererecords with you from now on.

Speaker 3: 1:25:36

I'll just put them on the screen for everyone to see See. Look, now they're right there for everyone to see.

Speaker 1: 1:25:42

I thought earlier you said we could just answer the questions in the chat.

Speaker 2: 1:25:46

We could, but I'm trying to, alright. Fine, you guys go Just play with the chat, alright, I will close the chats and I will focus entirely on you. Listen to what.

Speaker 1: 1:25:55

I'm asking you. I can't see the comments now.

Speaker 2: 1:25:58

I promise, Last time we did this we got caught up in the weeds and we didn't really get to the substance of the story. Because I want to talk about throughout the Old Testament. You have the story of Cain and Abel. You have the story of Jacob and Esau, however you pronounce it. You have Christ when he's even giving his parables and he tells the story of the prodigal son. These are all stories that have to do with the older brother is supposed to receive the inheritance and it ends up going to the younger brother. It happens over and over throughout scripture and it happens when the new covenant passes on to the Gentiles and the Jews reject that covenant.

Speaker 2: 1:26:44

Now that enmity exists and builds up over the past 2000 years and then it seems after the second world war, the church has taken a different position on it through various documents from in the council, things like that, and we may have taken a different stance on that relationship, but I don't think they have. What is the relationship of between the older brother and younger brother? How does that wind up playing out in the eschaton? Like it doesn't seem trivial to me. It doesn't seem like it's just going to be a mass conversion of Jews in the end times. It seems like there is something more to the story. The fact that God preserved them as a people in and of itself signifies to me that they are still part of the story and there's going to be something significant between the church and and the Jews going forward, it's not to say individual Jews are this.

Speaker 2: 1:27:43

I'm not talking about them corrupting, I don't care. I'm just saying that even this strike in Gaza is significant because they're they're. They're letting their enmity slip at times still, and I think that the, the, the two entities are going to come to a clash in the end. Is there anything in the fathers talking about that, or is it mainly just them? Um, talking about how the antichrist will probably come from the line of daniel, things like that I need to research it a bit more.

Speaker 1: 1:28:16

I haven't seen anything quite like how you described it. Here's where I've seen broad, if not unanimous, consensus in the fathers that the Jews will accept Antichrist as Messiah. Attain the summit of temporal power, um, and he'll be received as the jewish messiah.

Speaker 2: 1:28:43

Then you know, implicitly, that would seem to um necessitate some sort of climactic clash between the two and especially if most of it is revolved around the idea that the, the third temple, might be built and they will try to, and the antichrist will place himself in the temple of God and make make himself God.

Speaker 2: 1:29:06

There has to be. That's why when I because when I spoke with Eric about it, eric was just giving me the libertarian line and he's like, well, we just shouldn't be supporting the state of it and I'm like I don't care about that, like I care about the story I want to know how this, how this concludes between the older brother and younger brother, because if god does preserve them and they do talk about that, the antichrist will be the jewish messiah. It seems like that clash that comes upon the church may come from them. Is that? Is that crazy to think that? I mean? No, I don't think so. No, right, the persecution that the church is going to face in the end could come from that relationship between the two, I I don't, I don't think that's nuts, no um how exactly that will manifest.

Speaker 2: 1:29:55

I don't know right I yeah yeah, and so to me, when, when I'm seeing this, especially this weird obsession with zionism amongst christians, um, it it's. It won't just be the jews that accept. It will be heretics, and it will be, yeah, it will be like they're all going to be like do you, do you?

Speaker 3: 1:30:17

think? You think the dispensationalists, do you think they'll see this Antichrist as the second coming of Christ? If it's the Jewish Messiah, do you think it will be another coming of Christ to them, potentially?

Speaker 2: 1:30:32

I don't know. It's a question I.

Speaker 1: 1:30:36

Saint Caesarius of Aarles is a father who needs to be remembered because he was an incredible preacher and teacher of scripture. Saint cesarius of arles, a-r-l-e-s. He had this line about when antichrist comes I'm paraphrasing there will be a crowd of heretics waiting for him. So, um, uh, how would I, how would I phrase it? Um, it's very interesting, because when you talk with Orthodox Jews they will say things like well, if you're a Christian, that's great, that's how you reach God, and if you're a Buddhist, that's great. So within even modern Orthodox, which is to say rabbinic Judaism, there is this sort of ecumenicalism built in which many Protestants have already accepted hook line and sinker. Many Catholics the church has not, although many in the hierarchy, I think, have been unclear at the very least about that. I'll just put it that way. But most protestants have accepted it. Many catholics, de facto, have accepted it.

Speaker 3: 1:31:43

And historically most, I mean a lot of muslims did too. There was what his. There's historically a very close relationship between muslims and in jews. It's only bad sense. Well, well, that's, that's, that's another aspect, absolutely.

Speaker 2: 1:31:58

So look, you have the Jews actually will say the that Muslims worship one God and they're monotheists and they consider us like a pantheists or whatever, because we call God a Trinity Right. So when I hear the church talking about how you know, even that Abrahamic faith center was so bizarre to me, because if you go to Jesus when he's talking in the Gospel of John, he's telling the Pharisees angrily too If you were sons of Abraham, you would love me like Abraham did me. Meaning Abraham, abraham knew me and he loved me, and if you were sons of Abraham you would love me. But you know you worship your father, the devil. So it's not.

Speaker 2: 1:32:44

You know I'm trying to avoid getting too bombastic in what I'm saying, but when even this whole conversation that's been going on, do Christians and Muslims worship the same God? I mean, I guess I understand what they mean by, on a natural level, muslims worship one God and there only is one God. But no, they don't worship like. The attributes they give that God are so drastically different from what we see God as. And even when, when you saw the conversation with Matt Fradd and, uh, dennis Prager, which I know, you know, dennis Prager- personally um, yeah, the conversation they had.

Speaker 2: 1:33:16

You saw how, how, um, modern jews don't have this understanding of sins in the heart, right, they? They don't.

Speaker 1: 1:33:25

There's no lust of the heart for them, there's no I wouldn't say I, I wouldn't say dennis is representative of all of them, by any means in that regard, yeah yeah, there's, there are a number of orth Jews, because Dennis is not an Orthodox Jew.

Speaker 1: 1:33:39

Dennis is, if anything, closer to Karaite Jews. Karaites are like Sola Tora among Jews. They're like the Sola Tora, but they're kind of like Bible alone. They don't do the Talmudic stuff. So, yeah, so Dennis, I wouldn't say Dennis is super representative, super representative. But what? Where the jews, uh, where the orthodox jews are just are just incorrect, is they believe they can follow the 613 mitzvot without being remade as new creatures by the holy spirit. That's, that's the fundamental in many ways. That's the fundamental difference between us and them. We believe that human nature needs to be recreated, it needs to be reborn, it needs to be regenerated. There needs to be a circumcision of the heart, right?

Speaker 2: 1:34:23

so yeah, there needs to be a circumcision of the heart. There needs to be a genuine disposition change where you see the world and the holy spirit enlightens you and um, so the. But even when you get into um I was disagreeing with Eric about so much was he had such a hard time with me even suggesting that and I don't mean all of them, but there is a segment who want nothing more than the undermining of Christian society because they see it as I mean, we claim their god, we claim that we are the, we are the chosen people now, and that's why I think the um, the, what do they call it? Replacement theology, the way they actually explain it now, that's super sessionism super sessionism.

Speaker 2: 1:35:12

I think that is such a a tense topic to discuss these days, because they get angry when you even suggest that the god of israel is they claim that it's another holocaust?

Speaker 3: 1:35:25

yeah, just something like that, yeah, yeah so I I'm not.

Speaker 1: 1:35:30

What about a holocaust?

Speaker 3: 1:35:31

they, uh, a lot of it's. I have heard it claimed that to say that we are the israel. You know, we are israel, the new israel. However you want to phrase it, that that is like another holocaust to the jewish people well, that I mean.

Speaker 1: 1:35:49

I think it needs to be expressed and articulated with love, but that's absurd, of course yeah I mean, the law of moses was always provisional, and the people who got this first and most fervently were a bunch of Jews who founded the Catholic Church.

Speaker 2: 1:36:05

Yeah, the way I see the early church starting is it's a schism within Judaism. I mean, it's such a significant portion of Jews that are the early Christians. At Pentecost, peter is preaching to the Jews and thousands are converting right. So it's a schism that happens within Judaism in the early church and it's like that is how the covenant passes on to and there's no like the temple signifies the outer court and the inner court, that wall of separation is broken down. If you're reading Paul in Ephesians, paul talks about that. The dividing wall of hostility is broken down. There's neither Jew nor Greek or you know they're all one in the body of Christ.

Speaker 2: 1:36:54

They are the new Israel. But when you're talking about this.

Speaker 1: 1:36:58

It's not even a new israel, it's. It's just israel yeah it's just israel.

Speaker 2: 1:37:04

Yeah, the new israel would actually be heaven. Right, it would be the new heaven and the new earth, I guess. Well, no, that would just be israel too.

Speaker 1: 1:37:11

I I just like saying israel just fulfilled, you know it's, it's, it's there was a. It's like, if here's your starting point and here's your end point, it's's like Judaism was always going like this and then Christ took it to the end point and like that's still the same fundamental thing, it's still the people of God on his pilgrimage, ultimately to a heavenly homeland. And then there was a large portion of people, according to the flesh, who rejected that because they think the ultimate homeland is the Jerusalem below instead of the Jerusalem above. And you know, there's that joke about where there's a will, there's relatives, and so if anybody's been through those sorts of, I've been blessed to have avoided those sorts of arguments with family members. But you know, but things can get really nasty when there's a will left by a testamentary will and family members start fighting over it. So in many ways this is a fight over a will.

Speaker 1: 1:38:09

Who is the inheritor of this? And part of what I referred to earlier, the harmony of the gospels by St Augustine he's showing the Catholic Church is the inheritor of it and we can show this because the prophecies speak of the Messiah treading down the gods of the heathens and he's like look around you, paganism is dying everywhere, everywhere, I mean. The fathers were literally saying prophecy is being fulfilled right before our eyes, and it's not being fulfilled because of jews faithful to moses. It's being fulfilled by catholics faithful to a jew named jesus christ.

Speaker 2: 1:38:45

You know so, you know, it's that yeah I guess my it my, my main concern and I. It's hard to have this conversation, especially on youtube, but my main concern is you have, on one end, the people that are going so far with the conversation that could arise like it could rouse hostility towards them, which you never want, right, you never want to rouse hostility but at the same time, you don't want Catholics who to underestimate the significance of what is happening in the world and that relationship between the older brother and the younger brother, and that there are things that you really do need to be concerned about. And just taking one side on this going, oh well, no, we have to just make sure that event never happens again. That happened before is kind of crazy because it leads to not being able to criticize any of the actions that we're seeing in the world today.

Speaker 1: 1:39:45

Yeah, I mean, frankly, I haven't dived into all these issues about where I hear accusations made about Jewish influence, so I'm not comfortable making certain assertions unless I have researched them. And, frankly, given I'm 37, pretty young, but I've always been an old soul I have a keen sense of how limited time is, and so the fathers are my focus and we're putting up a lot more stuff about these sorts of issues. In the fathers there's a whole quote archive about the end times that I'm coming up with. There's a whole subtopic about Jerusalem, the conversion of the Jews, antichrist, you know, demonic deception, things like that. So, trust me, I'm putting it out there. But but you know there's lots of accusations made that I I need to research it more.

Speaker 1: 1:40:29

I'm not a meme research person, you know. Um, I've seen all sorts of garbage put out there my whole life. Where people put out these quotes, including even from the fathers, they won't provide a single reference, or like barely one reference. But I go and look at it, it's like that's not really what he said. So I'm a footnotes guy and so I am not going to take a strong. You're not asking me to do this, but just so people know I'm not going to take a strong stance on something unless I've actually researched it. But what I will say is this I do think when we get to the end of history, you know, the great apostasy comes first, the great apostasy of who, the Gentiles.

Speaker 3: 1:41:01

The.

Speaker 1: 1:41:02

Gentiles For sure. So we are going to get to the end of history and both brothers will have failed collectively in a horrific way. And that's not to get the older brother off the hook by any means Not at all. I mean, look, in many ways people need to realize this is very important. People need to realize that this question was actually settled in a practical sense centuries ago. I'll tell you when it was settled when we decided that every society of any kind is bound by a covenant. The question was are Christians going to be bound in a covenantal society called Christendom, or in a temporal society called a constitutional republic, where it's a merely temporal pact that holds us all together allegiance to the constitution or whatever it is or it's a spiritual pact, meaning the allegiance through baptism or baptismal vows, because that society is gone, it's basically completely gone, and the moment you say, the bond, the covenant that binds society is no longer going to be a supernatural covenant but a natural covenant. In many ways this has already been decided, because you're already putting Christ and antichrist on the same level. Okay, so that was practically decided centuries ago, and people need to realize that you can't just, you can't just undo all of that on the on the blink of a dime if it's going to be undone at all. I personally think it's part of the prophetic process of the restrainer no longer restraining.

Speaker 1: 1:42:30

But yeah, the fathers, the popes, you know, compare Luther's against the Jews and their lies, which is just this horrific screed that calls for death and murder. And it's just horrific. I mean, the Nazis could quote it proudly with no issue. And you compare that to a papal document, multiple papal documents on the Jews, where those popes, 20th and 21st century liberals, by no means they believe that the Jews needed their influence needed to be curtailed and whatnot. They did not believe in equal rights, so-called for all. There's no doubt about it. But they also said the Jews need to be protected because they are.

Speaker 1: 1:43:06

It's very interesting, st Robert Bellarmine I'm forgetting in which work it is. I think I talked about this with Gideon Lazar recently and then with Christian Wagner. But he addresses the question of like why do we treat heretics? Why is the church treat heretics far more harshly than the, than the Jews? You know, because if you are a heretic, they weren't burning Jews at the stake, they were bringing heretics at the stake, you know. So people don't realize that. So it's like the Catholic church was more harsh toward people within the family fully betrayal.

Speaker 1: 1:43:36

Yeah, it fully betrayal. Yeah, it was betrayal. But robert bellarmine I don't have the exact quote memorized, but he said something to the effect of the heretics are completely making up a religion, whereas the jews are at least responding to an actual religion that's been fulfilled, and they have denied that fulfillment. So that's a really serious issue. It's damnable, but but they are still responding to what is a real religion, whereas heretics are just making up their own, and that's part of the reason the church is so much more harsh toward heretics.

Speaker 2: 1:44:03

So okay, so so the return of babylon at the end of time and the whore riding its back now in the? If you're looking at it typologically, in the first first century it's Rome, right yeah, and it's Israel riding its back. Who?

Speaker 1: 1:44:25

crucifies the Messiah right. Theoretically yeah.

Speaker 3: 1:44:28

Right and if.

Speaker 1: 1:44:29

Antichrist is Jewish and accepted as the Jewish Messiah. I think that's possibly an accurate reading.

Speaker 2: 1:44:37

Yeah, I mean obviously this, none of this is dogma or doctrine. I'm just looking at the story. I'm not pointing fingers at anything. I'm just saying that it seems like the persecution will come from the new Rome and with, with, almost like with, with the older brother being the whore riding the back of it, I don't see how to. I don't. I don't see how to read it any other way.

Speaker 1: 1:45:04

Yeah, I think that's very pot. I've been thinking that myself, honestly.

Speaker 2: 1:45:07

I've been thinking that myself, um yeah, and that's not to condemn every individual, it's just that's. I think it's part of the story and I think that will also glorify god in the end and it's just one of those things that it's it's going to glorify God in the end and it's just one of those things that it's going to glorify God in the end.

Speaker 1: 1:45:22

So I was talking about this with Gideon Lazar, so it's extremely interesting. Most people are not aware of this. In the rabbinic tradition there are two messiahs, messiah ben Yosef and Messiah ben David, and basically Messiah, son of Joseph, is the more meek and humble one, the one coming in on a cult right Um a donkey, uh, not a C? U L T, a, c O L T? Um. And then Messiah Ben David is the one cut, the son of man coming down from heaven and whatnot, which Jesus quotes at his, his, his, uh, trial right Um, his, at his trial right His very irregular and unjust trial. But of course, just a few days prior he had walked in on a cult. So we would say in rabbinic terms that Jesus is both Messiah ben Yosef and Messiah ben David, but this does exist in the rabbinic tradition. Extremely interesting. The reason why it's interesting is because it's related to this older brother younger brother dynamic.

Speaker 1: 1:46:21

The rabbis were seeing that in the story of Joseph there is something messianic about it. Well, what happens with Joseph he's the younger brother, he's sold into slavery by his other brothers and then he goes to the Gentiles, he's thrown in prison Makes me think of Jesus descending into Sheol. Perhaps he's tempted by Pot makes me think of Jesus descending into Sheol. Perhaps he's tempted right by Potiphar's wife, by the wife of a guy who thought he was a god on earth? Right, the pharaoh? Well, I guess no, it's Potiphar's wife.

Speaker 1: 1:46:49

I'm sorry, not the pharaoh, but anyway, he's tempted, he survives temptation, he goes down into the pit, then he's brought out, he resurrects, so to to speak, and then he's made the second man in the kingdom. So we'd see that as like the son under the father, christ under the father, and, and then he saves his brothers yeah, because he was able to provide for them. And then they end up coming and then they realize, they repent, there's reconciliation and he says what you meant for evil, god meant for good. So I think this is a perfect picture of what will happen between, uh, god's you know the abraham, according to the flesh who are outside of christ now, you know jews, as it were, and catholics. I think this is part of what will happen at the end, and you know some extremely nasty things were done to Joseph.

Speaker 2: 1:47:39

So yeah, I think. I think part of that story is the reconciliation of the two brothers at the end and I think that is going to play a very big part in in displaying the glory of God. I think all of it it's yeah, I'm, I'm, I'm cautiously going through everything, everything I'm seeing, being careful, because I see everybody that does touch this topic. They kind of they just get obsessed on this time.

Speaker 1: 1:48:06

I have seen people talk about, yeah, they go crazy, I don't ever want to do that.

Speaker 2: 1:48:09

Like absolutely nuts, diabolically, demonically nuts, yeah, where they see, where they see they're in control of everything, and it's a and it and I don't ever want to get like that, because I think that can actually disturb your peace of soul a lot. I've seen the same thing you're talking about, you know, but at the same time, I love, I love seeing the grand thing playing out and I and I also want to be aware of what could happen and how it could play out, and I don't want to be naive to it either.

Speaker 1: 1:48:39

So it's a, it's look, this is a core issue of Catholic identity. If you know, I have gotten angry messages. There was a tweet I put up a few years ago where I basically said nobody will just be justified by the law of Moses and I I basically made a Paul, a very, very Pauline sort of statement. I won't say who, but it was a very. If I said the name if you're in political discussions, you would definitely know who the name is A very prominent Israeli messaged me and basically said why are you saying these things?

Speaker 1: 1:49:14

Because all it does is arouse hatred against my people. Essentially, and I said I'm not trying to arouse hatred against your people, I'm preaching the truth of the Christian faith, or I'm saying the truth of the Christian faith. And I said Ben Shapiro said he thought Jesus Christ was a criminal and got what was coming to him. He said that on the biggest podcast in the world. So are you going to correct him? And this person and I think he's a decent man in many ways, but, um, but on the natural level but he, he made a very interesting comment. He said if I said, if I gave my true opinions about your religion in public, all it would do is arouse hatred and I thought that was very interesting and I said I'm not going to stop you, go ahead, let's talk about it. And my offer was not reciprocated. But but, yeah, so, and I've had other Jewish friends from Israel who I love dearly. I have Palestinian friends as well who I love dearly. You know they're Habibi. You know, habibi, how are you doing? That's an Arab term for brother, essentially beloved, and it's a term of great affection. Yeah, again, a lot of these things are. If I haven't sufficiently researched certain things, I'm just not going to make strong statements on it. I know that that's very popular in our sort of reactionary culture where it's like there's this sort of diabolical mimesis Girardian. You know, renee Girard, talking about this, that people want you to like join up and sacrificing their sacrificial victim, want you to like join up and sacrificing their sacrificial victim.

Speaker 1: 1:50:43

But I would say is I think there are ways to speak extremely clearly and directly and uncompromisedly about these things, while also realizing look, the devil has an interest in destroying the Jewish people. One, because if they die without knowing Christ, they're going to go to hell, you know, all things being equal. And two, because he knows there will be a conversion. It's actually very interesting the fathers talk about. They sometimes almost talk about Jesus like he was like a 007 agent, almost like like the marriage with Mary and Joseph was almost secret, like because people needed to know that she maybe think that she wasn't a virgin, because then they then they wouldn't think there was a messianic implication to Christ's birth or something like that. And they talk about Christ being like this hook that was that was meant to catch the fish of death and then on the cross he catches death and he kills it. It's like this fascinating and enthralling description of Christ and his mission. And so I say that because Satan has an interest, he knows that there will be a mass conversion of the Jews and he does want to prevent that as much as he possibly can.

Speaker 1: 1:51:55

So I am trying to thread this line, not by denying malign Jewish influence it is real not by denying the enmity. It is real, not by denying that the church is Israel fulfilled and that if you're outside of it there's no salvation, absolutely, but there's also been, if you you know I've been to the middle east quite a few times more than most people arab countries, israel, whatever you get to know people, there's genuine trauma, there's hurt people. There's people whose entire family was wiped out in the holocaust or elsewhere, and and in the holy land as well palestinian and israeli. And I'm sorry, the internet just doesn't foster a thoughtful, truly charitable approach to these things. It just doesn't. And I'm not claiming I'm always doing it right. I'm, but I am trying to do it very thoughtfully and in a way that I hope is is absolutely loyal to what our faith requires, but is also um alive to the human realities of this situation, which are extremely real.

Speaker 1: 1:53:04

And you know, my next book will be with Catholic Answers, called the Third and Final Temple how the Catholic Church Fulfills the Old Testament. It's going to be dedicated to Dennis Prager and with the hope that he converts, and he knows that, he knows that. So I don't have a problem speaking clearly about these things, but if I haven't researched a topic about financial influence or this or that or the other, like you know, there are some people who say Josh, say who'd, say who did nine 11, and they're expecting me to say it was the Jews or Israel. Maybe they did. Is it possible? Absolutely, absolutely, absolutely.

Speaker 1: 1:53:37

It's possible but it's not an issue that I have deeply researched. It's not.

Speaker 2: 1:53:41

Yeah, no, I understand that, and if you don't, one last point.

Speaker 1: 1:53:44

Guess what? It's not my effing vocation.

Speaker 3: 1:53:47

Excuse my.

Speaker 1: 1:53:47

French. I'm not going to say the full word. It's not my vocation, I've got better things to get over.

Speaker 2: 1:54:05

My my position on all of that stuff about, about the subversion stuff is just yeah well, I just see it as part of the story. They of course they want to subvert it because sure, we claim the kingdom of heaven come to earth and we you know. So it's just part of the story to me? I don't I don't ever look at an individual, uh, as anything. I I you know, and I think this, this conversation was done in charity, um, I think and we need to push back against the definition of anti-semitism.

Speaker 1: 1:54:34

I do that a lot too. I I joked. Recently I was like breaking isaiah. Jeremiah ezekiel declared anti-semitic for their views on israel just just just to show how ridiculous this is it's like if, with the current definition of anti-semitism, the prophets of israel are anti-semites, which, of course, is absurd.

Speaker 2: 1:54:56

It's absurd um, yeah, all right. So, uh, we're at two hours, josh, I appreciate you, uh, giving us this two hours, especially after I canceled on you last week. I know you've been busy going on.

Speaker 1: 1:55:08

I didn't mention it publicly. You would give me crap for something like that all the time, publicly and privately. I have not given you crap.

Speaker 2: 1:55:14

No, I appreciate it he was supposed to be on last week and I got stuck working a night shift and we canceled the show. So but I know you've been busy, like going on other people's shows and this stuff gets exhausting. You do two or three a week and by the end of it you're just like I'm completely depleted. So I appreciate you giving us two hours tonight.

Speaker 1: 1:55:32

I think the audience for one thing yeah, of course, please pray for me, because these things are very weighty. Please pray for me because these things are very weighty. I take it very seriously and two years ago I had 8 000 on x. Now I've got 54, the youtube 16. These things are very weighty. I don't want to speak imprudently or uncharitably and so, yeah, just please pray for me well, I want to speak very directly, but but, but you know the rage.

Speaker 1: 1:56:00

lords, lords on social media don't like what I have to say sometimes and frankly I don't give a damn. I'm going to speak in the way I think Christ would be happy with how I speak at the end of the day.

Speaker 2: 1:56:11

Yeah, no, I never want you playing in the mud like we do. I like that you keep your hands clean and you don't have to worry about the riffraff.

Speaker 1: 1:56:21

All right, Josh Thank you so much. Sorry, josh, there's one mediator. I don't deny that. Is that a joke? It's a joke, it's a joke, oh, okay, okay.

Speaker 2: 1:56:30

What else can we say about Eternal Christendom? How can people support it?

Speaker 1: 1:56:35

Eternalchristendomcom. Go to the top, become a patron. It's a tax deductible organization. Help us build this chapel phase, which is just helping us get our cost covered. Um, if you can give more, great. But we're asking ten dollars a month. If we have two thousand catholics, do that, we are covered indefinitely. We know things are expensive. I live in california, I know things are expensive, but you know, ten dollars a month is less than netflix. It's less than youtube premium. That's a coffee and a bagel at Starbucks, maybe $10 a month. If you're willing, if you can give more, great. But we've got a lot more coming and just please consider supporting us, if you will.

Speaker 2: 1:57:09

Yeah, guys, go and go. I'm telling you, if you haven't seen it yet, go watch that Dr Alan Femister episode.

Speaker 2: 1:57:19

It's at like 16 000 views right now. I want that thing at 100 000. I think I love ashley. I've listened to it three times at this point and every time I catch something I missed the first, you know the last time I watched it, so definitely an excellent one. Um, yeah, josh, thank you man. I appreciate your friendship absolutely. I appreciate you being willing to come on with us with our bad reputations like that. You, you love the worst of the centers of the church, don't we all? Don't we all All? Right, we will see you guys on Thursday. I don't know what we're doing yet.

Speaker 3: 1:57:45

And Saturday too. We'll see everyone on Saturday.

Speaker 2: 1:57:48

Yes, yeah, that's right.

Speaker 1: 1:57:49

We appreciate it yeah.

Speaker 2: 1:57:54

We'll figure out how we're going to do that one.

Speaker 1: 1:57:55

We have Theo Howard, an extremely articulate guy Great guy.

Speaker 2: 1:57:57

Yeah, he's going to have a hard time understanding me.

Speaker 3: 1:57:59

He's going to have a hard time with. Your poor manners is what he's going to have a hard time with.

Speaker 2: 1:58:03

Yeah. So all right, guys, We'll see you next time. See you.