Nick Fuentes and Dave Smith REVEAL the Recent Shift in Cultural Discourse

Forget the safe take. We go straight at the knot that ties American power, Israeli policy, media gatekeeping, and the Catholic conscience—and why so many big voices choose silence when the stakes are highest. The conversation contrasts a clean non‑intervention case with a thornier identity lens and then brings in the missing third rail: theology. That’s where the ground shifts—Scripture’s patterns of elder and younger brothers, covenant faithfulness and rupture, and the Church’s self-understanding after Christ illuminate why this debate won’t stay “just politics.”

We talk candidly about incentives in conservative media, the “I don’t care about Israel” cop‑out, and how American funding and weapons erase neutrality. Clips from Dave and Nick frame the battle lines; our take argues that morals don’t disappear because a topic risks your job. We press on papal rhetoric and immigration, not to harden hearts, but to ask whether sweeping statements replace prudence and ignore those of us who serve immigrants and the poor up close. Compassion needs order; pastoral care needs the parish and the Eucharist, not only headlines and hashtags.

There’s a cultural spine here too: how post‑WWII trauma shaped public life and even Church tone; how the old TV gatekeepers collapsed; how suburbs, highways, and the melting‑pot myth atomized communities that once anchored faith and duty. If America is only ideas, no one belongs anywhere. If America is people and places, stewardship demands honesty about borders, aid, and the costs we export and import. Through it all, we call for courage without hatred—love of enemy, willingness to suffer, and the resolve to tell the whole truth even when it burns.

If this conversation challenged you—or gave you language for what you’ve felt—share the episode, leave a review, and hit follow. Your support helps honest talk outpace strategic silence.

Chapters

• 0:00 Sponsor, Tech Issues, Format Shift
• 2:00 Frustration Over Church, Poverty, Eucharist
• 5:30 Setting The Table: Israel vs. “Jews”
• 9:30 Dave vs. Nick: Media, Plants, Candace
• 15:30 Libertarian Critique vs. Identity Lens
• 20:30 Theology Missing From Mainstream Takes
• 25:30 Immigration, Papacy, And Policy Tensions
• 30:00 The “I Don’t Care” Cop‑Out Callout
• 37:00 Funding, Power, And Cultural Pressure
• 43:00 Beyond Non‑Intervention: Moral Duty
• 49:00 Identity Politics And Dual Loyalties Claim

Transcript

SPEAKER_02: 0:11

102 take three. Action please. A bottle of recusancellers petit verdeaux is one of the few things that can make me stand watching avoiding Babylon. Use codebase, that is B-A-S-E-D at checkout.

SPEAKER_04: 0:30

You know, I just realized you know how we we were talking about earlier how locals wasn't working.

SPEAKER_05: 0:37

Yeah.

SPEAKER_04: 0:37

I never got it to work.

SPEAKER_05: 0:39

Did you try? Yeah.

SPEAKER_04: 0:41

I tried one more time like an hour later. So there's no local show tonight. I could set it, I could set one up while we talk.

SPEAKER_05: 0:48

Because I have some venting to do tonight. Well, if you guys didn't catch that opening video, Recuson Sellers, they are our sponsor. We love Recusin. Um, if you guys can use code based at checkout, and you'll get 20% off this month only. Uh, after this month, the uh the promo code goes back down to 10%. They're having a sale for Christ the King. Recusin Sellers is amazing. So uh we typically don't just jump into an ad right away, but uh Taffy came through with a good intro video, so we figured we'd run with it. Um, yeah, I have uh I have some ranting to do over on locals tonight. Man, uh it's gonna start off early here. Well, the thing is, Rob and I like uh okay, so the show topic tonight. I wanted to do this on locals, and I wanted to do the document on here, and Rob was like, nah, like let's just let's switch it up. So we we're putting like this was going to be locals because it's such a hard topic to discuss on here.

SPEAKER_04: 1:55

But I mean they just were they on YouTube? They were on YouTube, right? Yeah, they were it's such a we'll be fine. I think we'll be fine. Israel instead of Jews. YouTube doesn't care about Israel, right? Yeah, okay.

SPEAKER_05: 2:11

Um, yeah, so I do have some thoughts on this on the document, and a lot of it is frustration and anger, so we'll get into that uh on the other side, especially because not even whatever the document is whatever, but it's more people's reaction to some of the things I said today. And um, like I I hadn't had a chance to read them today while I was at work, and I came home. And one of the things I put out was um, I said, I'm so I'm supposed to believe the hierarchy cares about the poor when they robbed us of the greatest treasure on earth. And the amount of just normies in my comments, like downplaying that, like you weren't robbed of anything, they didn't take the Eucharist away, and I'm just like furious. Like, no, you don't care about the treasure that was robbed, but that doesn't mean you weren't robbed of a treasure, like like you don't realize how how how impoverished you are because of what they did to you. I have whatever, we'll do that over there. I just I just have a lot of thoughts about it. Um because whatever, we'll do it over there. Because I'm like, I'm gonna rant. If I start, I won't stop. So all right, so I did watch the entire uh Nick and Dave conversation, and there's a couple of things I took from it. Um, one is just how much the ability to have this conversation on social media has changed, and a big part of that is because of both Nick and Dave. And Nick and Dave had had like this weird kind of beef going on between them, and uh Nick was kind of like acting like Dave was uh a plant and that he was like uh controlled opposition, like they were allowing Dave's opinions out there, but they were keeping uh Nick out of the conversation. Now that could be true, I don't know, but I I've been watching Dave Smith for if he's not a plant, I know someone who is.

SPEAKER_04: 4:15

Um I don't get that.

SPEAKER_05: 4:18

Candace. Oh, can't oh they they do discuss her too. I'm sure they do. Yeah, they discuss her too. Like, and Rob and I have talked about Candace, where it's like the reason they probably let some of her stuff exist is because she says such outlandish stuff that people could just write her off as crazy.

SPEAKER_04: 4:36

It it discredits the whole movement, but discredits that whole side of the right wing.

SPEAKER_05: 4:43

It discredits any criticism of Israel, is what it does. Like it's so, but we also had Eric Salmons on the show, and Eric Salmons ascribes very much to the Dave Smith school of thought, which is a very um libertarian view where it's like, okay, we can criticize Israel, the state, um, because our you know, we don't want to go into any more foreign wars and we don't want money going to Israel. Now that's like a very legitimate criticism, but to me, it doesn't it doesn't touch some of the major issues. Now, Nick comes at it from a very identitarian point of view, where Nick is talking about how uh Jewish identity is very much a part of this conversation, yeah. Where you and I have always taken this from more of a theological perspective, and I kind of see Dave Smith as like a stepping stone to like first, like even because of the amount of propaganda we've received around this issue to just at least get to the point where you go, wait a minute, this is kind of crazy. Why are why is every single politician we have um being from either side of the aisle? From either side of the aisle, why do they have an APAC person, which is basically a political lobby, donating to to their you know, their their uh political action committees and basically getting people elected, and these people have to then answer to them. So basically, either side of the aisle is always kind of doing something that serves the greater Zionist cause, yeah. So that's like the first break in the in people's thinking where they're like, Yeah, that is kind of weird, you know. If we're supposed to be America first, how come we're always worried about you know Israel's best interest before our own? Um, what Nick talks about is more about identity politics, where you know, if if you're black, you are going to have in-group thinking where if you're black, you're going to look at what's best for the black community. If you're Spanish, you're gonna look out for what's best for the Spanish community. If you're Jewish, you're going to look out for what's best for the Jewish community. Now, uh, Jewish people are in a unique situation where they have dual citizenship with Israel and whatever country they're in, because no matter where in the world you're born, if you have Jewish descent, they offer you Jewish citizenship. And they do that especially with people who are in positions of power because they want they want them to have Israel's best interest at heart. So you'll have like uh a lot of senators and you know, people people in positions of high authority that have dual citizenship, so they're kind of always working for the greater betterment of Israel, even with their loyalties there over that of their country of origin at times. Like some these could be people who were born in America or born somewhere in Europe.

SPEAKER_04: 7:32

The uh congressman who likes to wear his IDF uniform to Congress, yeah.

SPEAKER_05: 7:36

It's like it's kind of like just bizarre stuff. And I think both of them are correct in their assessments, but I don't really hear anybody cover the theological issue of it, which is where we start getting into talking with Father Maudsley and stuff like that, you know. So it would it would be interesting to sit down and have a conversation with Nick and Father Maudsley, where I don't know if we could ever make that happen. We do have a conversation with Father Maudsley lined up. I also well no, he he he's okay with Nick.

SPEAKER_04: 8:08

So the question is would Nick be would Nick be okay with it?

SPEAKER_05: 8:11

Yeah, that's a good question.

SPEAKER_04: 8:12

So I have a feeling we'd have a better chance getting him on with Father Maudsley than just on with us. That's possible, I think. That's possible. Yeah, my wife, my wife's locals isn't working. Imagine that. Good job, hope.

SPEAKER_05: 8:28

Um, I also was just asked by Damian Thompson from The Spectator. Uh, he invited me on to his podcast.

SPEAKER_04: 8:37

Really?

SPEAKER_05: 8:37

Yeah, today he like just an hour ago. Uh, and he said, Uh, I really like the way you present Avoiding Babylon, but boy, there's some scary views. Maybe you'd be interested in coming on my podcast sometime to explain the Tradbro phenomenon. The Tradbro phenomenon, yeah. What views are what views does he think is scary? Um I would think my views on this issue, on this issue. I think I don't know. Yeah, yeah, yeah. I know he was very upset with Catholic Unscripted when they spoke with Father Maudsley. So I mean it's possible. I don't, I'm not 100%. Now, what's interesting is this conversation, like when you when you get into like the remember the trad inc conversation that was happening last week where they're talking like you had the the the the Uber Trads criticizing trad ink. I don't really hear this topic come up with those guys very often. So I'm interested to know what their position is on this whole thing, but what with with what guys with with just the whole uh the the Israel conversation, what their position is on do they think there's been influence in the church from after World War II and things like that? Like, like if you get into speaking with Father Maudsley, Father Maudsley straight up will tell you, do you question why the church no longer acts like the church? Like, are do you wonder what it is that the church was so clear on things before the council, what happened? His position is that after World War II, the narrative that comes forth from that influenced the church so much that the church starts changing her teaching, starts changing her liturgy, starts changing everything about it. And he thinks there is no way to separate that from what happened in the church, those two things are just totally linked together. So, which is another reason I'd be interested in speaking with Nick and Father Mosley at the same time because Nick seems to see all of the infiltration into society from uh Jewish people, but he or or Israel or however you want to put it, but he doesn't see the connection in the church. So I'd I'd be interested in that. Now I did post a clip of Nick um criticizing Pope Leo, which is funny because the Groyfers are always so against criticizing them.

SPEAKER_04: 10:56

There is one thing they're willing to criticize them on, and we called this last week.

SPEAKER_05: 11:01

We did we called this last week when Pope Leo made his comments about the seamless garment. He didn't call it the seamless garment, but Pope Leo made comments saying that are you really pro-life if you're against abortion, but you're for capital punishment. And the Grupers all got on everybody who criticized that comment, saying we were a logging the Pope, and you know, we were, you know, there were there were a lot of things said, and then today I saw Nick had something to say about the Pope's comments on immigration. You want to play that clip real quick? I put it in the chat.

SPEAKER_04: 11:34

Sure.

SPEAKER_05: 11:34

So this is this go ahead.

SPEAKER_04: 11:36

I was gonna say for everyone asking, yes, we know locals isn't working right now. I did just set up another stream that we will switch to on locals when it's time. So yeah, you can't watch this part on locals, but when we tell you to go to locals, it will be there and we'll switch over to that. So yeah, and then I'll have to do an awesome job of trying to splice the two tomorrow morning.

SPEAKER_05: 12:01

But I have I have I have a lot to say over on locals tonight, so we will do a local stream. Um, all right, let's play the clip of Nick. Uh it's it says Nick Fuenta slams Pope Leo for speaking out on Trump's deportation policy. Christopher Hale's tweet. And I see Grover found a way back in, huh? We'll see if we'll see if he can hold out before before.

SPEAKER_04: 12:21

I'm willing to ban him just to make him create another YouTube.

SPEAKER_05: 12:24

No, no, no. Leave him in. Um all right, so let's let's see what Nick has to say.

SPEAKER_04: 12:34

Here we go.

SPEAKER_01: 12:37

Why is it that the Pope is always undermining US immigration policy? Because now I see Catholic priests in Chicago and they're doing like protests against the deportations, and they're doing that because they're emboldened by the Pope.

SPEAKER_04: 12:53

Same thing.

SPEAKER_01: 12:53

The Pope sets the tone, and now you have ecclesiastical authority, you know, the clergy in America that are that are protesting this political decision. And it's like, you know, you are the vicar of Christ on earth for a heavenly kingdom. I don't know where Jesus gave you the authority to tell us who we can and can't let in our country. You know, these people are here illegally, they're fucking gang members.

SPEAKER_05: 13:19

Oh, uh guys. These buildings. I tried to I try my best to edit the curses. You know what? There's going to be curses in this stream, guys. We're playing clips of Nick and Dave. So if you guys have little kids around, you might you might uh it might be too late. Yeah, sorry about that. Um, and that might be better for the local show anyway, because that actually goes with that conversation because it seems like what he ends up saying there is like it just gets kind of demoralizing having the Pope always talk about this stuff. So we'll we'll do that on the other side. Yeah, there's gonna be viewer discretion in this episode. Um, okay, let's let's jump into the first clip of uh uh Dave and Nick, and they discuss Matt Walsh, Tim Pool, and um I mean I think you could throw Knolls in this sub in the in this in this category, and just certain people deciding not to have the conversation around this issue.

SPEAKER_03: 14:18

Anything personally against, but like Matt Walsh, Tim Pool, Tim's been very good to me. I consider him a friend. No, like not, but they've all kind of taken this line of like, I don't care. Right, I don't care what's going on with Israel. Like, why are you guys so obsessed? You know, why are you so uh and there's something so particularly enraging about it? And I think part of it is because I really genuinely believe like guys like me and you are like, we'd love to not talk about this, right? That's kind of our whole argument. Yes, our whole argument is that this shouldn't be a thing we even have to talk about. But saying, why are you obsessed with it? It's like it's like in 2006, I'm sitting here and I go, Look, I'm a non-interventionist, but why is everyone talking about Iraq? Like, why do you have to well, because that's where we're intervening. So, like, how can you sit here and be like, I'm a non-interventionist? Like, you like you're taking the correct policy position from my perspective. So I at least give you credit for that. But the thing is, we are intervening. We are we are currently being interventionists, and also like if if your whole thing is like, I don't I want to focus on America, I don't want to go fight other wars. Well, who's pulling us into wars? Right, it ain't Lebanon, you know what I mean? Like, so like what how do you how it just seems like cowardice to me? Like, how do you get and it does seem like that that message is resonating with like some people, as I just think it's profoundly unfair. Like, the whole thing, the whole point of all of this is that it is an American destruction of Gaza. This isn't Israel doing it. Netanyahu goes around and brags about what Israel can do. Israel can't do shit. Israel can only do things because they have the full backing of the United States of America. So, like, sorry if you're in the world of talking about these things, you don't get to pass on this one. Like, you got to have an opinion.

SPEAKER_01: 15:59

Yeah, I I saw that too, and it's become very popular over the past year and a half. I see a lot of the young men, they watch Matt Walsh, they watch uh the this other stuff, and they say, Well, yeah, I just don't really care about Israel that much. I care about America. And I saw Matt Walsh say that on Tucker. He said, and you can tell that it it is like a rhetorical innovation because let's be honest, this is an issue that people like Matt Walsh don't want to talk about because he works for Ben Shapiro and he knows, like Candace Owens, if you drift too far in that subject, you lose your job. And he likes having a job. So, so you get it. Now, this is an extremely contentious issue, also, and it's very topical. It's in the news, and he knows the question's coming. Are you pro-Israel? Are you anti-Israel? There's people who feel very strongly about it. And you could tell this is like a rhetorical device. It's a cop-out where you can say, I'm not pro-Israel, but I'm not anti-Israel. I just don't care. And I that really pissed me off because it seems like you're feigning ignorance. You're either intent, you're either lying or you're really ignorant. And the reason why is because, be that as it may, that you don't care about Israel, we happen to be supporting their war. And it's actually hurting us. And there's other things too.

SPEAKER_05: 17:14

Obviously, it's a big subject. There's a the reason I picked this clip is because we as Catholics give Walsh and Knowles a pass because they're Catholic. Like these guys are in the political conversation, and we give them a pass because they're Catholic.

SPEAKER_04: 17:37

Um, I was wondering this too. Are denim ja jackets cool again?

SPEAKER_05: 17:41

Oh, Milo's been giving him hell for that denim jacket. Because if so, own Benjamin, own Benjamin, coolest kid in the world. Um, the like we give Walsh and Knowles a pass on this, and that is a cop-out where it's like, well, I'm America first, and I don't think we should be giving any country aid. I just don't care about the Israel subject. People have Israel derangement, like Tim Poole's been saying, people have Israel derangement syndrome, things like that. It's like, no, this is this is kind of one where if you're if you're in this conversation, you you can't just you can't just go, well, I don't want to pick a side. Let the like let them kill each other, you'll heal think, heal things like that. There's no good guys, let them kill each other. It's like, I don't know, man, like we're funding the destruction and genocide of a people. Like we really are, and I don't know how you cannot take a moral position on that. Yeah, it seems like too too big of a uh uh too big of a a scenario, like too big of a situation happening and too much influence in our country, and which way our foreign policy goes to just go, yeah, no, I don't really have an opinion on this one.

SPEAKER_04: 18:50

Yeah, I don't think it's something we as Americans get to have no opinion on when when like they point out, like we are so in in you know so tied with with it and have been since you know the 50s basically. Um as a state, they wouldn't exist if it wasn't for uh American support, American weapons, American money, you know, American intelligence, all of this. Um you know, when they couldn't uh take out Iran's um nuclear enrichment program, who had to step in?

SPEAKER_05: 19:24

Yeah, you know what I mean?

SPEAKER_04: 19:25

I mean they didn't have they didn't they don't they didn't have the stealth planes and the you know the uh uh the the mops the massive ordnance penetrators to to literally dive a mile underground under a mountain and and blow it up. They couldn't do that, they had to rely on us.

SPEAKER_05: 19:42

Yeah, it just seems like um look, I think I think I'm probably guilty of it too. Like there are some topics that are just so radioactive, you're kind of just like I don't really want to touch them. I said I find myself doing it with Pope Leo, right? Like, I don't I almost don't want to get caught up in in the fray of this argument, and then and then I worry, like uh, like I don't I don't I don't want to be a Catholic criticizing these things, but the fact is, like at a certain point it could become cowardice when you see certain things happening and you just don't say anything about it, and you just so much of it is mimetic desire, you're afraid you're gonna get criticized too much. In in Walsh and Knowles's case, it is very much they are because I do think they have strong opinions on this, they don't want to lose the comfort of their job.

SPEAKER_04: 20:31

I I think that's probably a good portion of it.

SPEAKER_05: 20:34

Yeah, there's no chance Matt Walsh does not have strong opinions on this, but he works for the Daily Wire, and we know what those opinions are because if they were the opposite opinions, he would be saying them, right?

SPEAKER_04: 20:45

Yeah, yeah, yeah.

SPEAKER_05: 20:46

So we know what his silence is his silence actually is him like silence is deafening, yeah. It's very deafening, and it's like you can't just uh uh like I don't know, man. I think I think we're getting to the point, and I get it.

SPEAKER_04: 21:03

I you know, uh, I wouldn't want to lose my job over it either. Yeah, yeah, I get it, but but when when your job is commentary and you refuse to comment about such an important topic, then there is a problem there, yeah.

SPEAKER_05: 21:18

And I I the reason I've chosen to talk about this subject as often as we have is because I think this is going to be the biggest issue in the church going forward. I do. I don't think the I don't think the conversation is going to be about Novus Ordo and and the Latin mass. Like I don't, I think this this whole situation is going to come to a head eventually, and we're going to have to figure out which side we're on. And yeah, Bree Dale does defend everything, but she's also working for the Daily Wire. It's like like this is this is not a light subject. Like we've it's and especially if you don't know, um, if you don't know where to like where to go on it. So all right, so the next clip is uh the libertarian approach versus the identitarian approach. We'll go through that one. It's a little shorter this clip.

SPEAKER_04: 22:17

Okay, here we go.

SPEAKER_01: 22:20

Also more extreme. Now, same is true of like Tucker, all the Tim Poole people have been trying to get me on his book. No, I've not seen it. Yeah, right. And so, and why am I not allowed on? Of course, it's it's my view that I was canceled for this issue. And so to see you go onto the show, it, you know, and people say it's jealousy, maybe there's a little resentment there too, but it was a bigger concern that as a Jewish person, and also by the way, not just that you're Jewish, but as a libertarian, you come at it from a different place. You're a non-interventionist, a Ron Paul guy. And I even have this disagreement with Tucker on some level, too. So it's not just you. My big worry is that is the conversation going to stop at we need to end all these wars and like the neocons are the problem. Because my critique goes further, and it says that it actually does have to do with Jewish identity. Jewish identity is so powerful and so potent. Jews refuse to assimilate. They're so powerful, they're so tribalistic, they're loyal to each other. Not all of them, but a lot of them. And that is actually where the Israel loyalty proceeds from. It's this anxiety. We need Israel because what happens if it goes south here? We need to be powerful in America to prevent a majority from rising up against us. And it's kind of that identity issue, which, and you know, I that's why I'm open to talking to you or even somebody like uh a Bill Ackman or a Sean McGuire or a Shapiro and say, I recognize Jews are a part of America. They've always had they always have been, and they're some of the finest Americans, actually. But people recognize it cannot go on this way where we have an open society, but they have this loyalty and kind of play by a different set of rules. And anyway, so my concern is that what it looked like to me is you're being brought onto the shows, and they know maybe that you'll never go that far as a Jewish person, or maybe even as a libertarian. And a big red line was being drawn and saying, but you are still an anti-Semite, you are still banned on YouTube, you are banned on the shows. Fuck you, you're all the way over here, and that's why I like you and I respect you, and I think you're with that with more preparation.

SPEAKER_04: 24:31

We would have given these to Taffy to bleep out.

SPEAKER_05: 24:34

Yeah, it's not even that like I'm trying to like I'm doing things while I'm screen recording these things, and I'm not even paying attention. Maybe I'm just so desensitized I don't even hear the F-word anymore. Um, but but to his point, this was the conversation we had with Salmons. Salmons is willing to criticize funding Israel. Uh, he's willing to criticize the stance on foreign wars, but he's not um no, I did I I'm telling you, I got a lot going on, guys. I still do have a job during the day, so um uh uh salmons was willing to criticize like our our funding to them and and foreign wars and stuff, but he's not willing to look at is it something more than that? And then Nick brings it to the identity conversation and says, No, no, no, it's because they stick together and they have loyalty, but I think it goes even further, and it's because there is this enmity between Christians and and Jews from the time of the Old Testament, well, like from the time of Christ, right? And it goes back to the all of the stories in the old testament leading to this. Now you guys who watch the show regularly, you're gonna hear me repeat things you've heard me say a hundred times, but imagine what it's like for me guys. Yeah, in case anybody's new is watching the show, anybody that is, you know, maybe a groper or somebody from Dave's audience is watching this, like the conversation goes even further because this storyline of enmity between the elder brother and the younger brother, it goes back to the old testament. It's it starts with Cain and Abel, and it goes through Jacob and Esau, and it's even in Christ's parables, and Christ's parables almost all of them have these, they they usually have four meanings, but almost all of them have to do with the the the covenant, like the the the people of Israel, you know, Christ coming, God sends his son and they kill him, and then and then the other wedding guests are invited, or the prodigal son, the the prodigal son winds up, he gets the he gets the inheritance, and the older brother is angry that the father throws the party for him, even though he squandered his inheritance. All of those stories have to do with this enmity between Jews and Christians, and um it ends up uh to the to the point where there's even this reconciliation at the end of time, which is prefigured in all those stories as well, especially the story of Joseph and his brothers. His brothers, uh there's 12 of them, they sell him into slavery, and then he winds up becoming like the prince of Egypt, and he then reconciles with his brothers after there's a famine in in the land. It's like this is the story of Christianity, and that's how it's going to play out. But that enmity is going to stay there between Jews and Christians, and it it's playing out before our eyes right now in such a way that in the in the last clip. Oh no, I didn't even put this clip in. They there was a section in the show where they talked about how things are getting so out of hand because they no longer have control over the media narrative like they did for so many years, right? I mean, after after the events of World War II, you had three basic stations on TV where they could they could control the news narrative, they could control what kind of propaganda went through in movies.

SPEAKER_04: 28:02

And it was actually up and through the 50s and into the 60s, it was actually largely like um I won't say Catholics controlled it, but there were Catholic institutions that restricted a lot of stuff on TV. But then in the 50s, as Israel is rising to prominence and gaining support from America, you have you have the the church's influence, especially in media, declining. And it's and it's like that that is for lack of a better term, that Israeli influence replaced that Catholic influence, and no longer did you have the um the what is it the League of Decency, or what was that?

SPEAKER_05: 28:42

Yeah, it's the it was the League of Decency where there was a Catholic coalition who actually were able to prevent nudity and debauchery from getting into films and TV and things like that. And this was when like the church had this kind of leads into what I'm so upset about with this latest document as well. It's like we'll do it on the other side, but it it's yeah, so yeah, they have this monopoly on propaganda and narratives that come forth, and that is starting to fracture and fall apart. And they talked about how now that this conversation is kind of just out in the wild, like Nick is no longer banned everywhere. Somebody's saying that Nick actually does talk about this stuff on his show. I don't watch Nick's show regularly, all I really do is catch clips of him here. Like I've known about Nick for uh for 10 years, but I I don't I never watched his show. I just kind of see whatever clips are let out there. So I don't know how deep Nick does go into the theology of this whole thing, but the uh the clips I see rarely talk about that, and this is it's a very important part of this story because what what's happening now with them with them losing control of the narrative is kind of like what happens in in 2016 when Trump gets elected. Trump gets elected and the left loses. Loses their minds and they let the mask slip and they just start going crazy. And then with the COVID narrative, everything they put out with that, like it was almost like so blatant that it opened people's eyes. They were like, This is just insane. And that actually is going to wind up happening with this whole conversation soon because they are losing their grip on the narrative. And when you have a dog cornered, they kind of go crazy and do whatever. And that's kind of the position Israel's going to be put in soon. When they when I mean Gen Z is done with this with this stuff. When you go through the older generations, like if you if you talk to older guys, you like I've tried to talk to my father about this stuff. My father just won't hear it. He just he still thinks Israel is our greatest ally, and things like that. It's a very difficult conversation to have with people who grew up watching things like Sophie's Choice and you know, like whatever the whatever uh Schindler's List and you know these movies. I mean, every time you turn around, there's another World War II movie coming out, and they're just it's you know, it's it's it's something that is so deeply entrenched into Jewish identity that the story, the the stories themselves have such an effect on Jewish people that they are terrified that anytime anybody says anything about them, they think another another Holocaust is coming, you know. It's like this is it's it's done like crazy damage to the to the psyche of the Jewish people as well. It's not just you know the the effect it had on society at large, it's it's a very very big issue. So um the last clip I I clipped was about the actual Holocaust. So um Nick uh Dave asks Nick what his views on the Holocaust are, and I'm I'm surprised they were able to talk about it on YouTube, but they were, so we'll play it.

SPEAKER_04: 32:01

Okay. Remember, not all channels are treated equally by.

SPEAKER_05: 32:07

That is true, but I think we'll be okay.

SPEAKER_01: 32:09

I don't think he says anything too bad here conversation to have, but I am curious. For me, it was never really about the Holocaust in itself because early on I watched a lot of documentaries like the canon of Holocaust denial documentaries and essays, and I found a lot of the arguments compelling. And then I saw that other people are pushing back on that. And I I have uh good friends of mine who are like um, you know, they're fellow travelers, let's say, and they adamantly insist it did happen. And they send me blog posts and things. And at a certain point, you sit down and say, So is this really about a World War II historicity debate or historiographical debate? And to me, I'm sort of missing the point. To me, the Holocaust is just like it is just a central part of the Jewish identity story, which is that if the white people get too much power, they're gonna kill us all. If, and that means if we don't have enough power, they're gonna kill us all. If they can critique us, they're gonna kill us all. You know, it's it's wrapped up, and and this has been pointed out before that more Jewish people think that the Holocaust is central to their identity than believe that believing in God is central to their identity. And that just tells you about what what Jewish identity really is and how it's political. And so to me, the what matters more, I don't know. I think it was exaggerated, I think it was embellished. I don't know that six million exactly died. Um, but I don't know. I haven't, I'm not an expert, and I don't really even care about being an expert. To me, it's more about like you said, I don't want this trauma imposed on me and for it to define our political order because that's really the issue.

SPEAKER_03: 33:56

Well, that's so that part I think is 100% reasonable.

SPEAKER_05: 33:59

Um Bobby's saying they'll ban us for copyright, but I think that's only if Dave actually Dave would have to hit us with a copyright.

SPEAKER_04: 34:06

They're their sensors, their auto sensors could detect that we're you know playing it for so long and and and do that with, but we could claim fair use, and you know, then yeah, Dave could say no, it's not fair use, and which one he's a libertarian, yeah, supposedly would. And two, like it really is fair use, but YouTube's auto sensors could ban us in areas.

SPEAKER_05: 34:31

I don't think like they did, yeah, like they all right. So I think we're fine. Um, yeah, I I mean it's kind of hard to uh argue with what Nick said there, right? And I think that's kind of the point most people are at where it's like, okay, um, I'm not even going to argue the historicity of the event anymore. I want to actually say, okay, like we can't allow this event to dictate everything anymore. And I think that's kind of the place the younger generation, excuse me. I think that's the place the younger generation is at at this point where they're just like, okay, look, this this event can't dictate everything, and it has dictated everything. Like, you cannot separate the second Vatican Council from that event. You can't you can't separate especially the pontificates of John Paul II and Benedict from that event. That like Benedict was in the Hitler youth, he was forced to be in the Hitler youth. John Paul II lived in Poland throughout these events, like these things had a very big effect on the church over the past however however many decades, right? Now, the in conclusion, before we jump over to locals, here's what I'm gonna say. I I've I don't I'm glad that these two had this conversation because there were there was this there was this friction between the two of them, and I think both of them are important to the conversation, even if I don't care what your opinions are of Nick, I don't care what your opinions are of Dave. This conversation is important, and we couldn't have this conversation even five years ago. Like the amount the culture has changed over the past five years, and Nick is a very big part of pushing that needle. And I'll also say this Nick is now 26, probably gonna be 27 soon. He said some outlandish things when he was younger. He's still, you know, he has a very like gallows sense of humor and things like that, but he seems to be maturing, he seems to be, especially when he's having conversations with other people. Like I watch him on PBD and I wash them on Dave. He wasn't bombastic, he wasn't crazy, he sounds very reasoned. I don't know what he does on his own show. I'm sure he likes he's still being funny and making jokes and stuff. But when he is serious, he's talking about very serious things. He has some very important political takes, and I'm glad he's part of this conversation because he's pushing the needle very much in culture. He's like there's very few people who have had as big of an effect as he has, especially over the past two years, in my opinion.

SPEAKER_04: 37:04

Yeah, the more I the more I see of him, the more I like him, I guess.

SPEAKER_05: 37:13

Uh yeah, you've softened a lot on him, which is interesting because most of the not every group.

SPEAKER_04: 37:20

There's some groipers I like and that follow me and stuff. But some of the group think and among the groipers and the way they all react and pile on people is it's it's too much. But as far as from what I've seen from Nick himself, yeah.

SPEAKER_05: 37:40

And and especially look, I've seen like especially lately, the things I've been seeing from him is he's very much careful in how like how we handle this conversation is important, right? Like, this cannot lead to any kind of animosity or hatred towards any group of people, like, especially us as Christians. Like, our job is to actually love our enemies even to the point of martyrdom. I put out a tweet today saying that I would kiss the hands of my executioner, I would kiss the feet of the Pope who's punishing me as a traditionalist. Like, I will love those who hate me. Like, that is actually what we have to do as Christians. Like, we we have to love them to the point of martyrdom, love them to the point where we will lay down our lives, like St. Maximilian Colby. Like, that is actually the way to go about this. This doesn't you shouldn't be riling up any kind of hatred or animosity to anybody, and from our perspective, this conversation needs to be had specifically because the antichrist will be the Jewish Messiah, and and Catholics need to be aware of that because as this as you see the heritage will also be the Protestant Messiah, too, probably. That's the point, right? So, as you that I was just about to say that, so like you're seeing this Christian Zionism appear, and you're seeing these fanatics of Protestantism where they're going crazy for for for Israel and their support for Israel, and they will even use the Bible and misquote it, take it out of context to make it appear as if he who loves Israel loves me and things like whatever the weird ways you know they they misquote Genesis. He was instrumental in my conversion because it struck me that he was that he has the courage to talk about topics no one else did. Like, that's one thing you gotta give this kid, man. He is. I mean, for all the times I've backed down from a subject because I was afraid of the pushback I would get. This kid says whatever, and part of that is because they banned him from everything from saying little things, you know. So uh Eric McCabe's video last night, I watched it this morning. I think Eric McCabe is crashing out. I think he's I mean, he came on and tried to have a conversation with us, and now he blocked me on Twitter. I mean, blocked you on Twitter, yeah. He blocked me on Twitter. There's something going on with him where like there's this unhealthy obsession of Catholic converts to be liked by Protestants still. It's like this deep shame with some of these guys that they converted, and they just want the Protestants to still like them and let them know that we're the nice Catholics, we're not like anybody else, to the point where they'll denigrate their fellow brother Catholic at the ex like at the at your brother Catholic's expense to ingratiate yourself to the Protestant. It's disgusting, it's really disgusting, and I don't I don't I'm not I'm not a fan of of it whatsoever. Um but I getting back to the reason this conversation is important is because scripturally speaking, I mean you're talking about you go back and read Ezekiel, and Jerusalem is the faithless city, the harlot. Like that is the description of Jerusalem.

SPEAKER_04: 40:57

Every church father saw saw not necessarily the modern state of Israel, but the Jews as the whore of Babylon, as Babylon.

SPEAKER_05: 41:08

As the unfaithful ones, because God always ascribed idol worship, He he described it as if it was faithlessness in a marriage. So when they say that God never revokes his covenants, yeah, okay, fine, but he also doesn't revoke the curses that come with that covenant when you break it. And that's kind of the situation that that has been going on. There actually is one more clip I want to play of Barry Weiss when she was on Joe Rogan.

SPEAKER_04: 41:33

I did not know till this week that Barry Weiss was a female, yeah.

SPEAKER_05: 41:37

Uh uh lesbian, a lesbian female. She runs the free press. She has a she has a podcast called Honestly. It's kind of hilarious. She's on a podcast called Honestly. She's married to a woman, yeah. Honestly. It's kind of hilarious. But so yeah, she she she gets into um explaining how replacement theory is a myth. And listen to what she says here.

SPEAKER_04: 42:06

Like replacement theory as in like the racial one, or as in like uh supersessionism.

SPEAKER_05: 42:13

No, no, no. Like, watch, just listen to what she says. We'll we'll criticize it after.

SPEAKER_00: 42:17

When I heard Jew, like the Jews will not replace us, right? I heard it in like the plain meaning of that phrase. Like, the Jew is not gonna take my job. The Jew is not gonna like take my job in the corner office or whatever. Um, but in fact, it was like a reflection of this replacement theory ideology, which is that brown people and black people and Muslims and immigrants are coming to replace our white civilization. And the the Jew's job is basically to pass as a white person, but in fact, do the bidding of these people that we deem to be not pure. Where does that come from? That is a deeply, deeply ancient anti-Semitic conspiracy theory, right? It's the idea of let's go back to the new the New Testament, let's go back to to Jesus, right? What happens in that story? The story there is that the Jews go to Pontius Pilate and say, you know, like this person's unacceptable to us. And in the mythology of that story, the Jews get what was then the most powerful empire in the world, the Roman Empire, to do their bidding. And you have this line in the book of Matthew that is so, so I mean, the the bloodiness of this line cannot be quantified, where he says, you know, his blood be on us and on our children, which goes, you know, down through the centuries to justify the killing of Jews, of, you know, untold numbers of people. The idea of the Jew as sort of like the wily manipulator, as the Jew as having proximity to power, not being in power, but being able to sort of be the puppet master, pulling the levers of power. You see that play out in lots of different iterations.

SPEAKER_05: 44:10

But I mean, I'm not saying it. She's kind of saying it.

SPEAKER_04: 44:14

Like uh the the Marxist language there, the the mythology that's being told, uh the story.

SPEAKER_05: 44:26

I have I have to say something though, because this is an important point where Pilot had an APAC representative. So there's an important point here where when you get into this conversation, you you you see that Israel is the only one allowed to have an ethnostate, right? Like they're allowed to have an ethnostate, we're not allowed to have one, and part of that is because when when Germany had an ethno state, they came together and they saw the damage, and they were like, We're doing something about this. Now, that is their biggest fear is that if you have an ethno state, something like that will happen. So that's the that's the motivation behind these open border societies that George Soros is pushing pushing. Like, that's the motivation behind an open society where it's just a borderless world, and you it's so that your culture is dead is degraded so much that you don't get together and say, wait a minute, these things are bad, we have to put a stop to them. That is the motivation, and she's telling you straight out, like I'm she's saying it's a myth, but I mean I mean, if this show doesn't get struck, I don't know. Yes, absolutely correct. All of the all of the New Testament in the early church is Jewish. I mean, it's it's not the what happens in the early church is a schism. It's a schism. Those who went out from us, they claim they were part of us, but they never were of us. This is a schism. So it's like the the the people of God continue through the new covenant comes, the people of God continue, they're the same people. There's a schism. There's those who break away because they don't want the new covenant. They don't want to share the new covenant with the Gentiles, is what it is. Yeah, they're they in their mind the idea of sharing the covenant promises with the Gentiles is horrifying. Absolutely not. They will control everything and we will be subordinate to them. Now that idea exists still, it it continues on, and it's you know, I mean, look, uh it's a it's a hard topic to discuss on YouTube, but if you want to finish out what she says, I don't know, but is it worth finishing out? I mean, she goes through and explains it gonna make is it gonna make me more mad?

SPEAKER_04: 46:47

Maybe, but people should hear it.

SPEAKER_00: 46:51

Time, right? You see it. Um I'm trying to think about useful examples for your listeners, but but that is sort of the trope, right? And it is uh an ancient one, but it's being utilized in really new ways. Um, so it's not literally that the Jew is going to replace us, that is that the Jew who the Jew in a way is sort of like the greatest trick the devil has ever played. And this is the language of Eric Ward, who wrote this amazing essay called Skin in the Game. And he talks, he's an he's a black anti-racist activist. And he talks about figuring out how anti-Semitism is kind of the linchpin of white supremacy, because the Jew appears to be white, but in fact, he's not white. I mean, this is all based on this lie that race is not a social, that race is not a construct, right? It's which it is. Um, but they're saying that the Jew is not white, but he appears to be white, but in fact, he's loyal to these people who are coming to sully America. And so when you have someone like Congressman Steve King saying we can't replace our civilization with someone else's babies, like what does that mean? What is that idea? It is so deeply anti-American because the idea of America, right, is the idea that Americann-ness is not about bloodline. Americanness is about a shared set of values and ideas and fealty to those ideas. So that's someone else's show.

SPEAKER_05: 48:18

What is an American? Like, what is what does it mean to be an American? And look, the idea of like mass migration also is so that, you know, and even the integration of schools and things like that was so that your daughter comes home with a guy that doesn't look like you. Like it's just it's just what's going to happen, you know, naturally. And it's, you know, it that that is the idea behind it. It's so that you don't have a tight knit cultural community because then you care about your culture. And when you care about your culture and you don't want it to be destroyed, you you fight for it. But if you don't have a culture to fight for, it's easy to divide and conquer a people.

SPEAKER_04: 48:59

The the the whole idea of a melting pot is um it's so subversive in in that it makes you think that that everyone melts together and you all become one. But really, what it does is it it it separates you from your history, from your people, from your culture, from your religion. And it it it makes you this individualized little um atom separate from everyone and everything else, and it does that to everyone all at once, and it it keeps people away from each other, it keeps people from look reaching out to to help someone out, you know, someone else like this.

SPEAKER_05: 49:37

Listen, if you I've told you I watched that documentary about the like the creation of New York, it was like over a couple of like a couple of centuries. It goes from like the 1600s to uh the Trade Center coming down, and when Robert Moses comes in and he builds the highway system when the automobile is invented, he builds the highway system, he just breaks up these beautiful Catholic communities throughout New York City. It's like you have these beautiful uh Italian Catholic communities, these Irish Catholic communities, they're all these tight-knit communities where your cousins and your aunts and uncles are all living together. You all gather around the parish community, like the community parish where the priest is involved in your lives and everybody knows everybody, and then they build a highway right through those beautiful communities. They stick all the black people up in these tenement buildings, and everybody scatters out to the suburbs. And the suburbs is like man, it's like the decimation of community.

SPEAKER_04: 50:32

You'll you live they're designed to where you can't even walk from place to place, right?

SPEAKER_05: 50:37

You don't know your neighbor, you have no interaction with anybody, it's just the total disintegration of culture. I'm telling you, the this now look, I don't know how much of this is orchestrated from the top and stuff, but it's just kind of what has happened. Um, yeah, that's so right. So race is just a social contract, except for them. Except for them, for them, it's a very real thing, you know, and it's like they're they're the only ones who actually allowed to have this racial ethnic identity, and we're not. And it's look, it's a it's a it's it this issue is going to be very prominent, and I'm glad for the guys who have pushed the needle and made the sacrifice and gotten themselves canceled over it. I'm grateful to them because they paved the way for guys like us to even have this conversation. So Nick, Dave, thank you both. I think what you're doing is important, and I hope I hope the conversations continue. I'm I'm much I'd much rather you guys be speaking and having conversations and you guys be at war with each other. I think uh I think a lot of this stuff is is stuff that needs to be talked about. So we're gonna head over to locals now. Um, if you guys aren't subscribed, I have quite a rant tonight. I I I want to talk, um, I'm I want to talk about what Nick had to say about the immigration thing and it's gonna lead into what this latest and this latest um exhortation was. Because the things that I'm seeing in my life compared to what the what what the hierarchy is talking about are just they're just light years away. Light years, complete light years away, because I work around poor people more than any of the people, all the people praising this document. I promise you, I'm around poor people way more than you guys. All the people that are praising his outreach to the immigrant, I work with immigrants. So like I I know what it's like to actually deal with this stuff in person, and that's not what I need help with because I am compassionate to the poor person. I do have I do have compassion for the immigrant who comes. Like, I've actually made my my my work friends who barely speak English come to my children's graduation parties and things like that. That is not like that. Is your call as a Christian, is especially like to to have to have like a brotherhood with your fellow Catholics, like the the the our our our because the real globalism is the Catholic Church, like that's actually the proper way to do it, where we have the same cult, we worship at the same altar, so that does bring down the dividing wall of hostility. But what we're talking about in this document is very frustrating because I'll do the rant over there, we'll do it over there. So if you guys want to hear it, I have a lot to say.

SPEAKER_04: 53:19

The link is pinned in locals or not locals in the live chat. Um, for everyone watching on YouTube, this it's not gonna be really any different than what it normally is. Me and Anthony will just have to leave this stream and go into the other one I created. Um, but if you go over to locals and we're not there, we will be there momentarily.

SPEAKER_05: 53:39

So yeah, we're gonna have to end this stream and then we'll jump over there. So just sit tight and wait for us and we'll start the show over when we get over to locals. Um, and and we'll talk to you guys over there. Uh, thank you guys for watching. We'll see you next time.