From Mass Of The Ages To Movie Crusade: Reclaiming Culture Through Film

What if the stories we stream every night are shaping our souls more than any sermon we hear on Sunday? That’s the heartbeat of this candid conversation with Mass of the Ages director Cameron O’Hearn—a filmmaker who pulled a hit film at 1.6 million views on principle, re-edited through crisis, and kept his eye fixed on devotion over dopamine.

We trace the arc from the trilogy’s explosive reception to the quiet wins that don’t trend: a free priest-training platform walking hundreds of Novus Ordo priests (and even a few bishops) through the traditional Latin low Mass step by step. Cameron opens up about the cost behind the craft—lost footage, hard edits, and choosing integrity mid-production—and why part three refused to offer a “silver bullet” in a Church moment defined by tension and testing.

Then we widen the lens. Movie Crusade was born from rediscovering Pius XI and Pius XII on cinema, and their bold claim that images form the moral personality. We unpack a simple but sharp framework—good, dangerous, harmful—for evaluating films, and revisit the power of the old Hayes Code when seven million Catholics once moved Hollywood. Expect frank takes on Silence, The Passion of the Christ, and The Chosen; how on-screen portrayals of Jesus can aid or distort prayer; and why icons’ strangeness protects mystery. This isn’t culture war for its own sake—it’s a call to choose stories that teach us to love the good.

We close with a look at Discover Tradition, a brisk, story-driven travel series exploring living Catholic customs, and a sustainable model that gets more beautiful work finished and seen. If you care about the Latin Mass, moral imagination, and giving your family better art, this conversation is a roadmap and a rallying cry. Subscribe, share with a friend who loves movies, and leave a review to help more people find the show.

Chapters

• 0:00 Cold Open, Bans, And Guest Intro
• 2:00 Mass Of The Ages Origins And Impact
• 6:30 Crisis, Edits, And Pulling Episode One
• 11:30 Trilogy Timeline And Personal Cost
• 15:30 Publicity, Personality, And Avoiding Spotlight
• 17:40 Rebrand Debate And Trad Perception
• 21:30 COVID, Latin Mass Growth, And Bishops’ Feedback
• 25:00 Training Priests And Quiet Influence
• 28:30 Roundtables, Film Series, And Mel Gibson
• 33:00 Movie Crusade: Vision And Mission
• 37:00 The Hayes Code And Catholic Leverage
• 42:00 Ratings: Good, Dangerous, Harmful
• 45:30 Silence, Context, And Moral Imagination
• 50:00 Icons, Jesus On Screen, And Devotion
• 55:30 The Chosen: Art, Gaps, And Doctrine
• 1:00:30 New Projects And Funding Model
• 1:05:00 SSPX Footage And Editorial Balance
• 1:09:00 Handling Critique And Craft Choices
• 1:13:00 Tribes, Threading Needles, And Providence
• 1:17:00 Discover Tradition, Movie Crusade, And Closing

Transcript

SPEAKER_03: 0:11

If I died today, tomorrow you would come on here and use my death to promote a voting Babylon.

SPEAKER_02: 0:17

Yeah. So Rob passes on Tuesday. There's no show Tuesday or Thursday. So the third show, the following Tuesday, the hunt begins for your replacement. And I'll do auditions. I bring on Hitchborne. This is a bad idea. Yeah, dude. Even if that gave me an 800-pound squat, man, I don't know, man.

SPEAKER_05: 0:36

Uh Joshua Charles. What on earth is he talking about?

SPEAKER_03: 0:40

Send out Invisborne to all the current podcasters. Inviting them on. Make sure not to send one to Trent.

SPEAKER_05: 0:48

Sorry, Rob. I want that co-host spot.

SPEAKER_02: 0:52

You better not get us another ban with the with the stupid rules. Oh if that gets us in trouble with the if we if this stream gets killed right now, are you kidding me?

SPEAKER_05: 1:04

Or are you talking about the gun at the end or what?

SPEAKER_02: 1:08

Yes, they have these crazy gun rules on YouTube.

SPEAKER_05: 1:12

Yeah. Who's your editor? Who put that together?

SPEAKER_02: 1:17

Rob's supposed to watch it beforehand, and Rob does a show called Guns and Rosary, so he knows all the rules of YouTube. Okay, you you have to understand like guns are such a everyday part of my life.

SPEAKER_03: 1:29

I don't think about oh my goodness.

SPEAKER_02: 1:31

If you get a I will be so mad if this stream gets killed. Okay, so Cameron O'Hearn finally coming on to avoiding Babylon. We've been avoiding Babylon finally having me on.

SPEAKER_05: 1:48

We have known I've been clamoring to get on the show.

SPEAKER_02: 1:52

Uh huh. You you've been in the chat several times, and every time you're in chat, I'm like, Cameron, we want to get you on. Like, reach out to us.

SPEAKER_05: 2:00

Take a hint. I'm trying to leave the smartest, coolest comments. Take a hint.

SPEAKER_02: 2:06

So we had we were just talking. So, all right, so we did Mass of the Ages 2 review, and that was the first time we had Father Nick's on the show. Like, we reached out to a bunch of people and said, Hey, will you come on and pop on and give your thoughts about uh Mass of the Ages 2 when that came out? So that was like the what that was like one of the first non-trivia shows we did. Then Mass of the Ages 3 comes out, and we're reviewing it. And like, I think I was being like a little critical of like one or two parts, and all of a sudden I saw you in the chat, and I just totally stopped being critical. And I was like, This is the greatest thing ever. And everybody's like, You suck, Anthony.

SPEAKER_05: 2:41

I was I was not in a good place. Um, yeah, that was tough. But I I mean throughout the whole process, it's a part of you receive criticism, you want to make the best product, and so I mean, we have screenings to just give feedback, yeah. So, but yeah, as an artist, you're like bleeding out your art and wanting people to you know see your vision and well, critique is all part of the thing, like it's when you popped in the chat.

SPEAKER_02: 3:14

Like, I it suddenly I'm like, This is his baby, like the like that. This is your baby, like you've been working on this thing for so long. So I was like, All right, let me let me back off a little bit because there were some amazing parts of part three, especially when you guys went to Africa. Like that, I I remember that being like the Anthony felt right at home.

SPEAKER_05: 3:34

Yeah, you guys have African in your bloodline?

SPEAKER_02: 3:38

Did you do 20 million?

SPEAKER_05: 3:40

So, yes.

SPEAKER_02: 3:40

Oh wow, yeah, that's all but um, so what was that like for you? Like which one? First off, no part one came out to the greatest fanfare. Like part one was just exhilarating for everyone to watch, right?

SPEAKER_05: 3:54

And then because traditions custodis came out July of 2021, with the the document that banned, you know, uh the Latin Mass or restricted it, I should say. And then our premiere was the month after that. So it was like I obviously I didn't plan that, but it was perfect timing, and then episode two came out May of 2022, and then three took a little longer because we were also forming our nonprofit, you know, developing priest training and all that.

SPEAKER_02: 4:27

Well, well, there was also the father Jackson um yeah thing that happened, right? So so like the father, I've totally forgot about that. Like the father Jackson, because uh father Jackson was so good in that documentary, and then that whole thing comes out, and you had to he had the best line in episode two that obviously never saw the light of day.

SPEAKER_03: 4:51

And um can you say what the line was?

SPEAKER_05: 4:54

Well, yeah, he was basically saying, because I was saying, well, it was my question at the end of episode one, it was like the cliffhanger. It says, All right, so yeah, what happened? Like what why do most Catholics not believe in the Eucharist? And then he leans forward, he says, a perfect storm, and then he goes into explaining, you know, we have great priests in the Novusordo, our diocese, we have great seminaries. Uh, the priests are very reverent, but then he goes on to say that it's the right that's the problem. Yeah, you know, and um the way he said it was just like, yes, I got like when when you interview people, especially because I'm also an editor, I'm one of the editors on each of the films. I I keep those lines at the back of my head. I'm like, okay, we got it. You know, if if this interview gives us that one line, like we got it. But yeah, so the Father Jackson stuff comes out. Lord, please bless him, bless his victims. Lord have mercy.

SPEAKER_02: 5:57

So, yo, okay, so we do because people are asking what's the father Jackson thing? Because I I I look, there's a lot of new trads, and they may not, you know, they may not have known, but Father Jackson was a pretty big part of part one. He gave some really insightful things, and everyone that knew Father Jackson thought he was like the pinnacle of the like if you're looking for a trad priest and you want to get some really great insights, he's the one to talk to.

SPEAKER_03: 6:20

And then he had a really good, really amazing book on the litig.

SPEAKER_02: 6:24

And and it just came out that he had some horrific things on his computer the dealing with children, and it was like nobody could believe it. It was so heartbreaking because like we like none of us believed it because there was never uh even like the slightest accusation against him for anything. His people at his parish loved him. It was just it was a really difficult thing, and I remember you struggling with what to do with that. I remember that was like a really big thing. You guys were struggling, like, should we take this out? It's kind of already there, and then you guys kind of put a re-edited version out, right?

SPEAKER_05: 6:54

Yeah, so we were we were working on episode, so episode, yeah, we're working on episode two. That came out, and then we had we decided to take down episode one. Actually, I got the news. You know, remember when Church Milleton you had to pull it down. We had one point uh 1.6 million views, and it was a really hard decision. It was the first decision we made was we're leaving it up, like we're we're flipping filmmakers just trying to survive. Like, yes, we made a thing, it's in the past. We have to move, we're like we're treading water, like we're trying to survive. It was a it was our split second decision, but I was on set in uh filming at the SSPX seminary when that Church Militant article came out, and I remember talking to my team, some really close advisors, and I finally just took time to pray about it. I was just like, well, I feel like I made like a rational, logistical decision. But I was like, well, what do what decision do I want to stand by like at the end of my life? And then so we, you know, we talked with the team, like we actually discerned it. Because the frustrating thing with with church militant at the time is they're like, What's your answer? What's your answer? What's the story? Like, we're gonna get we're publishing. It's just like we're we're we're gonna leave it. And they're like, they're leaving it, they're the worst. And I'm just like, I'm trying, I'm filming an interview with Bishop Filet, like I can't focus on this right now.

SPEAKER_03: 8:25

And he hadn't pled guilty or admitted to anything at that point yet, right? Like he was right over the IQ.

SPEAKER_05: 8:31

I don't remember, I don't remember the timeline, honestly. But so we have we took down episode one, and then we had to re-edit episode two, like the parts he was in. So we had to, you know, okay, let's let's get some more footage.

SPEAKER_02: 8:44

Like Scott Hahn interview at this point to try to fill that in there.

SPEAKER_05: 8:48

Yeah, exactly. So that was that was very difficult. And yeah, and then episode three. Um, I just let's finish this thing, let's let's finish it strong. So it was, you know, we started the Kickstarter in March of 2020. Um, no, the Kickstarter, we filmed the Kickstarter March of 2020, but we did the Kickstarter July of 2020. It's like the world shut down, obviously. And then, you know, we didn't release episode three until 2024. So we did three films in four years, and uh that was a roller coaster. It was my life. It was like every time I was on a date with my wife Amber, we're talking about Mass of the Ages. What do you think about this scene? What if we did it this way? And she's literally seen Mass of the Ages, like the whole trilogy, probably 30 or 40 times because we would watch it, watch the whole thing, you know, work through it. And so she has a credit at the end, uh, post-production uh helper or something like that.

SPEAKER_02: 9:52

So what always what always interested me about you, like your temperament, like you never were you never craved the limelight. Like you, I like I always felt like you never really liked doing these things, like these things. Like you just came up like you're just like, oh crap, I gotta do another stupid podcast and talk with people. Like like that's just that's just the personality type you you seem to have. Like you're you're great at it. Don't get me wrong, I'm not saying you're it just I could tell, like, you'd rather just do the work on the film and like the the promotional stuff. I I feel like it I always felt like you were just like, all right, I gotta do this thing because I gotta promote the thing, but like I don't really want to do the that's true.

SPEAKER_05: 10:31

I mean, uh, I'll be at churches like in different countries, and people will say literally these words, they'll say, Are you mass of the ages? I was like, What kind of a question is that? Yes, I'm that guy who you associate with mass of the ages, and you're right. Like, I I wish I could make the films, I I wish they could have a big impact, but I wish no one would look at me. Like, I just want to make art. And I I like hearing that they do well, but I I don't need people to do that.

SPEAKER_02: 11:05

You know, like being like you're not like um like you're not being glorious where like you need everybody to give you attention. It just seemed like you wanted your project to get the attention.

SPEAKER_03: 11:12

So yeah, he's a lot more like me than like you aunt.

SPEAKER_02: 11:16

Yeah, yeah, definitely. So the other the other huge blowback you got was does the does the traditional movement need a rebrand? Yeah, I remember that tweet out, and it was does the camera you say that, and he decided he doesn't want to be on camera. Yeah, he doesn't want to be on screen with us anymore. Because that was you can we can still hear you, so okay. But um, that tweet I remember going a trap, like all over everybody's losing their mind. Does it look who does this guy think he is? He's been a trad for 10 minutes and he's trying to give us a rebrand. But like for me, like especially me, I was a new trad at that moment at that like that time period, and there were a lot of annoying a-hole trads in the movement, like they were just like these guys who like um like it was almost like they didn't want to let anybody in, they were they were constantly like ranking on on the new people coming in and stuff. And I remember I think your your intentions were good. Just like, hey, do we need kind of like a rebrand to give like a like a maybe a gentler image out there? Because we're being told we're not necessarily banned.

SPEAKER_05: 12:27

What is a brand? It's a perception. That's all a brand is like when Coca-Cola does ads and you see polar bears hugging Santa. I don't even know what they do, but they like drink. Yeah, it is. They drink Coca-Cola in the North Pole. They're not telling you how much Coca-Cola costs or where to buy Coca-Cola. They're just trying to evoke a feeling and a perception. And all we were saying at the time was, man, we need to fix the perception, the brand of the Latin Mass. But I can totally see why people took that as why do you need to change anything about the Latin Mass? Or who do you think you are? Like you you discovered this along with us. Like, yeah, I'm I'm no one, but I'm just saying, like, as an artist and seeing the online discussion rooms, like, we gotta do better.

SPEAKER_02: 13:17

You know, it's it's it's look, there's also a thing about like this this youth coming into the movement now, right? So, like the the trad movement up to that point had really been the Michael Matz, and it had been like a kind of an older crowd because it wasn't there wasn't this youthful movement toward it, and there was something really interesting about the Francis pontificate, which was that everybody just kind of got turned to tradition during it because it was so so insane under Francis, it really was. And then you start getting, you know, guys like Taylor Marshall talking about the Latin mask and trying to push people to go, and then COVID hits, and when COVID hit, it was just a game changer because I think people saw the way the Eucharist is being treated by receiving in the hand with everybody fiddling with their masks and all that stuff, so it kind of lit a fire under the movement, and a whole bunch of people that had never gone before were just like, I'm gonna go check this thing out.

SPEAKER_05: 14:10

We we filmed a live stream of during COVID of the trituum. So our parish did it all out the trituum with all the glorious, you know, trappings, and I was filming it as a live stream, and our church is empty, but six thousand people tuned in live. It's like we can't fit that many people in our parish, but yeah, you're right. It was a it was the zeitgeist that grew out of control.

SPEAKER_02: 14:38

It was just such a bizarre time, man. There's you think back to it was an exciting time too, though. It was you know, you you just start you had this excitement about the movement back then, and it's how have you uh man, because under under Leo, like we're all hoping there's some like loosening of the restrictions and stuff like that, but have you uh have you received any kind of feedback from from any from anybody in the hierarchy that uh that maybe this the film helped help uh form some of their opinions and change their perceptions of things?

SPEAKER_05: 15:17

Or yeah, we've certainly got messages from bishops. Um I don't know of bishops who would you know have the ear of Pope Leo. I do have um well there's things things I could say, but I I I don't think I will just because I I think they would shine a spotlight on me in in a vainglorious way. Like I just I don't need to say certain things, but I know that the films have made an impact all the way up to the top. Um what I can say is our priest training, which is free, uh, that we produced, so a priest or anyone can go and sign up, and you can you're walked through the traditional Latin low mass step by step with animations and voiceover. We have thousands of people signed up to that, and we've we're training hundreds, literally hundreds of novus ordo priests, priests who wouldn't know the Latin mass otherwise. And we've actually um we've trained a couple bishops, they've gone through our training, entire training, and I think four bishops total are in the training, but two have graduated. And so these are bishops who don't want their name, but they don't want me to tell Pope Leo who they are, but they're legitimate bishops that we've talked to in in different countries and here and elsewhere who've gone through the training and are now know the Latin mass. So there's there's this quiet part, right? The quiet elephant in the room that's waiting to what do elephants do? Do they pounce? Do they roar? I don't know.

SPEAKER_02: 17:03

They make what's the elephant. So, all right, so now we're reviewing episode three. You're in the chat, and Rob and I are talking, and I throw out this idea, and I'm like, you know what we should do? We should get a trad round table together.

SPEAKER_05: 17:21

Oh, yeah.

SPEAKER_02: 17:22

You guys throw a trad round table together and don't invite me. No one holds on these guys.

SPEAKER_05: 17:27

I did not throw anything together, I just showed up.

SPEAKER_02: 17:32

So then they do these series of trad round tables. I'm like, all right, I guess uh you know, I'm I'm not I'm not accepted in the trad movement, I guess. I see how it is. So then so then Rob and I decide to start this series called Faith in Film with Father Nick's, and we reviewed the movie.

SPEAKER_03: 17:49

That's exactly where this is going.

SPEAKER_02: 17:51

Okay, and we review second. So we listen, we did a whole season of this. We did 12 or 13 episodes. We did them once a month, we did it for fully. We got Mel Gibson on for an episode.

SPEAKER_05: 18:02

Super, super jealous about that, by the way. Yeah, yeah.

SPEAKER_02: 18:05

What's interesting? Oh man, I was so mad at Nick's because Father Nick's wouldn't let me ask any questions that were that were of any he wouldn't let me ask questions. Hold on, I get a rebuttal period. Yeah, absolutely. You absolutely do.

SPEAKER_05: 18:19

You have the floor. Okay, I'll stop it.

SPEAKER_02: 18:21

Father Nick's, we get Mel Gibson, and he won't let me ask any questions that don't have we we did the movie with the um this uh seventh-day adventist kid that won't fight in the war. What movie was that?

SPEAKER_05: 18:32

Uh oh, um yeah, uh Darn, what was that called? Mel Gibson.

SPEAKER_03: 18:40

It's got it's got uh Tom Holland, right?

SPEAKER_02: 18:41

No, no, no, Tom Holland, the other Andrew the other Spider-Man, yeah. The other Spider-Man, Andrew, uh yeah, whatever. So all right, so we so he won't let me ask any questions about anything but Hacksaw Ridge, but I wanted to ask him because my favorite Mel Gibson movie is Apocalypto, and I because and I think it's the most I think it is the best Christian movie because it shows the pre-Christian world and it shows how savage the pre-Christian world is, and then at the end of the movie, you see the well that word first strike. Remember that word is a little iffy when you say that, but um, the Christian missionaries come at the end of the movie, but you see what the world was like before the gospel is there, you know. So I wanted to ask him about that a little bit. I also wanted to ask him, like, how do you make a Christian film that isn't cheesy or corny? Kind of like, and I don't want I'm not trying to knock the chosen, but the chosen comes off with the accents and stuff like that, and uh, and as I'm asking him that question about cheesy movies, the the connection gets cut off, and like we have to re-edit it and we come back on, and it was it was a frustrating interview. So, but you you so we did this series 12 episodes, but we kept getting like copyright strikes because we were we were airing clips of the movie, we would air a clip of the movie and then we would discuss that clip because they weren't uh strictly Catholic movies, they were more secular movies that dealt with Catholicism. So we did like Alfred Hitchcock's uh I Confess, we did um uh we did a man for all seasons, we did uh the mission, like we did it, like we tried to just do these movies, and we would pick a clip and then we would discuss it and say, like what you know what from a Catholic angle, like how this is a powerful scene, whatever. So, but we we stopped it because we have to figure out the copyright thing. I think we could figure that out now. But you guys are doing a new series called um what is it? Uh film crusade.

SPEAKER_05: 20:41

Almost Rob you tell him what it is.

SPEAKER_02: 20:44

He takes it pretty close, actually. Movie crusade, and and now I see like you had Father Calvin Robinson come down, you had Father Nick's come then. We still haven't gotten an invite. We're having you want to promote it on our channel for you, but I'm waiting for my invite on. But what don't you tell us about it a little bit?

SPEAKER_03: 21:01

Funniest thing is is if you never invite his him on now.

SPEAKER_02: 21:04

Or if you're just what are my thoughts about all the all the things I just shunning? Are you shunning me and now finally coming on with us?

SPEAKER_05: 21:12

I think Apocalypto is great. I thought it was a great movie. Like the Mayan culture and the really crazy escape movie.

SPEAKER_02: 21:29

Wait, did you hear any of like us teasing this episode out before you came on? Because I've been teasing this episode out with like our audience. I'm like, oh, wait till I get him on. When I get Cameron on, I'm gonna call him out on all this stuff.

SPEAKER_05: 21:40

Okay, well then I'm all for it. Um, so what okay? I need you to now it's now we're in the cross-examination, so I need you to ask me questions. You gotta challenge me, you gotta accuse me to my face, and then I'll respond to it.

SPEAKER_02: 21:58

How come I wasn't invited to the trad round table? What happened there?

SPEAKER_05: 22:01

I I just showed up, I didn't know who was doing it.

SPEAKER_02: 22:04

Who stole the idea from us? Is it who took it?

SPEAKER_05: 22:08

I think you gotta take it up with Flanders. He might have been the mastermind.

SPEAKER_02: 22:11

Yeah, right.

SPEAKER_05: 22:13

Yeah, he's he's pretty, he's the trad godfather. Or no, like the trad cousin, probably. Probably the trad cousin. Yeah, so that okay, so we're we're in agreement. I didn't I didn't slight you there. All right.

SPEAKER_02: 22:28

I don't think you ever slighted us. I I I'm just teasing, obviously.

SPEAKER_03: 22:31

I'm just trying to make the the interview interest interesting, but uh, when when your team sent us the email for this, I'm like, and you will not believe the email I just got.

SPEAKER_05: 22:43

Well, I think I think what happened, okay. You guys invited, I think the where this started, where our beef started.

SPEAKER_03: 22:51

Was Jake, it's all his fault.

SPEAKER_05: 22:53

Was when we released episode two, and I think you invited me on or something, right?

SPEAKER_02: 22:59

I think I reached out to Jake and asked if you could come on, and you were you weren't you weren't able to.

SPEAKER_05: 23:04

Yeah, so I think at that time I was just like, I I think I was on maybe three different shows, I don't remember, but I was completely burnt out. Like I was like, Yeah, we were small.

SPEAKER_02: 23:19

We were a very small channel, we were like the new guys coming in, and that might have been it too.

SPEAKER_05: 23:23

I might have said, hey Jake, anyone with more than a thousand subscribers or something like that. I might have said something like that.

SPEAKER_02: 23:28

Yeah, it was probably that.

SPEAKER_05: 23:30

And now I'm like, please, oh my gosh, how many subscribers do you guys have? Like 50,000? I was like, please, can you have me on? Movie crusade.

SPEAKER_02: 23:39

You got a thousand people watching live right now.

SPEAKER_05: 23:41

Movie crusade only has 500 subscribers. So I was like, oh man, don't don't step on the little guy, okay? I'm the little guy.

SPEAKER_02: 23:53

How did you guys come up with the movie crusade idea?

SPEAKER_05: 23:57

Oh my goodness, that is a question. I gotta go into my it's all fake and film. That's all wow. So it started just as an idea. I didn't know if I was gonna do it just myself as a podcast, just like a fun hobby. But I like these shows I was watching on on YouTube that are like sports shows or board game shows. I'm into board games. I was like, wouldn't it be cool if we had a movie show um where we talk about movies like guys talk about sports? So it's really high energy, there's segments, it's you know, and then Tony loved the idea because at the time we were thinking, well, okay, Mass the Ages, we we went up to bat three times, we got a hit. Um now what do we do? Like we we have these other show ideas, but how what do we do marketing-wise? Like, how do we widen this funnel? Because our funnel's this big, we need ideas that kind of reach out outside of that funnel. So he loved the idea, but then we've discovered these encyclicals, and this blew my mind. I did not know that Popes Pius XI and Pius XII each wrote an encyclical on film, and that Pius XII wrote an apostolic exhortation on film called the ideal film. And so these encyclicals talk about the psychological power of movies. And basically, so we had we had Father Nick speak at an event for us, and Father Nick put it like this: he said, Okay, take the principles of Aquinas. What you see affects your imagination, and your imagination affects your will. Like everything we do, everything we learn comes through our senses. So, based on what the church is saying, and the the Pope, if you read these documents, the popes are startling in what they're saying about movies and TV, like the effects of them. The conclusion is movies are sending literally billions of people to hell or billions of people to heaven, like or creating the opportunity for grace. You know, I'm not saying they're salvific or anything like that. So that that created this new layer because we're like, well, how do we entertain and market and X, Y, and Z? And now it's like, oh my gosh, there's a mission following it, falling kind of in our laps. Now we're we were, I think the early episodes of Movie Crusade were like stumbling along, figuring out what we're doing. But the more we read about this, I mean, we have plans to really well. One thing I'll mention is they had that something called the Hayes Code in 1930. Are you familiar with that?

SPEAKER_02: 26:48

No, you can mention it in the green room. I don't know what it is.

SPEAKER_05: 26:51

So in 1930, there's a Catholic layman and a Catholic priest who got together to write guidelines for Hollywood. Um and at the time, and even in the 20s, like Hollywood was kind of out of control. They were chaotic. So these good Catholics got together, write these principles based on Catholic moral theology. Hey, don't do this, don't do that. Like things like um don't show abuse, or don't show uh a couple in bed together, or don't show, don't make people sympathetic with crime, you know. Don't make fun of clerics, you know, principles like this. Hollywood didn't listen, Hollywood didn't care until the bishops got involved. So the the bishops in America, led by the bishop of Cincinnati, I think his name is John McNicholis, he rallied the bishops together to form something called the Catholic Legion of Decency and said, okay, every year we're gonna get our parishes together on the Feast of the Immaculate Conception, December 8th, and we're gonna take a pledge to avoid all of the Hollywood filth that violates these principles. And so the bishops would also make determinations on what films are acceptable, what films are you know accept like questionable, and then what films are condemned. And the pledge is you're gonna avoid condemned films. Seven million Catholics took the pledge, and they would they would actually read it out at parishes, like the homily, they would read the pledge, and the Catholics there would take the pledge, and they got seven million Catholics to do this. And then Hollywood, their ticket sales started to plummet. So then Hollywood started to listen. And eventually they demanded that before any film would be distributed in America, it had to be it had to abide by the code.

SPEAKER_02: 28:59

Yeah. Like so they wanted the bishop's approval before they would release something, knowing that they wouldn't get boycotted.

SPEAKER_05: 29:05

Yeah, and they weren't exactly working. They knew that the the bishops were abiding by the code in their ratings, um, but then they put a Catholic in charge of uh enforcing the code. So no film could be distributed if this Catholic leader said, no, it violates the code. You have to change these things. For example, there's a film called The Maltese Falcon with Humphrey Bogart. It's based on a book, and the book is very lurid, and there's like an adultery, there's adultery stuff in it. If you watch the movie, it's actually very toned down. Um, and that was because of the Hayes Code. So they were in production, and then you know, they they showed the film to the the leadership and said, no, you can't show this unless you change these things. And then they had to adapt. So that's the power the church had over Hollywood. In the 30s. Now, what we're what we feel called to, now this is this is me speaking as Cameron O'Hearn. Like, I don't know. Obviously, Mass Sages is like the most precious thing to me. Like, but I'm just saying, like, when I speak about um what God is calling me to do, I'm just saying me as an individual, what I believe he's calling me to do, and Tony and and others, is what if we brought the code back? And the the point is not to save Hollywood because they're gonna they don't care about the money anymore. They're just gonna keep rolling and whistling and falling off the cliff. Like they don't care. They they will spend money and waste money to propagandize our families. Like they don't care.

SPEAKER_02: 30:46

Yeah, we've seen that with Disney. We've seen that like their message is more important to them than making money. They're willing to take a loss to trans your kids at this point. That's how insane these people are.

SPEAKER_05: 30:57

Yeah, but the what we see as the solution is is man, like, you know, the Catholic Church is a sleeping giant, uh, you know, a billion strong. When the Hayes Code came out originally, you had um Protestants getting on board with it, you had Muslims getting on board with it, you know, conservative values getting on board with it. And we have we have completely lost the plot when it comes to talking about movies and thinking about movies and the extent that movies have on affecting and infecting us. Like movies, movies are really can be really dangerous and harmful to the moral imagination. This is what Pope Pius XI said. He said, the purpose of art is the formation of the moral personality. Like the reason men confess sexual sins so often is because uh of our moral imagination, right? It leads us to it leads us to sin. What are we consuming? It's not just the P-word that men are consuming, it's also silly stuff, like stupid stuff, like comedies like Talladega Nights or what whatever it is. It's like when you start twisting the truth and in subtle ways and treating sex in um malicious ways or in in different ways and warping your moral imagination in that way, like we don't understand how pernicious and deadly this is. And this is coming just from a faithful Catholic reading these encyclicals and light bulbs going off.

SPEAKER_02: 32:42

Catherine Bennett, uh from Catholic Unscripted the other day, put out a substack talking about the friends generation, how she grew up her generation watching friends, and this this goofy comedy that everybody thought they were watching. But what it actually did the way the I think I think she said the show starts off with a divorce, like a woman running away at the altar, and it was like she she kind of put it in in it. She kind of put it in like the Christian context of the story of kind of like the people of the old covenant running away from the you know the the the covenant. So, but e either way, she it the whole point was you're watching this show of these single people sleeping around, and and they're like, Well, I made them wait three dates before I did now. This subtle comedy that everybody thought they were watching was on NBC at 8 p.m. at prime time, and people were letting their teenagers watch it. It led to this generation that had hookup culture. And look at where we are now, where you have OnlyFans and you have the whatever podcast, and it's this is the degeneracy, it all started with sitcoms like that, because film has such a deep effect on our imagination. You think about the first Seinfeld episode where George goes for the massage and it moves, a man's rubbing his rubbing his back and it moves, and he's like, Not that there's anything wrong with that. We went from not that there's anything wrong with that to gay marriage to cutting children's genitals off, like in a span of 15 to 20 years, because that propaganda is so powerful.

SPEAKER_05: 34:12

Yeah, that's why the Pope say that evil motion pictures that includes movies and TV can quote destroy the moral fiber of a nation. They were saying this in 1930 and 1957. Like, where are we at now? And the the reason it's powerful, it's psychologically powerful, is like, you know, books or podcasts, like what you're doing, um a conversation you have with a friend, or you're trying to get someone back in the faith, you're sending text messages, all these efforts, schools, they have to buy, they have to get over the fact that people have they have barriers up. They have, they're blocking, they don't want to be, they feel like you're gonna convince them of something. So they have their defenses up. When you when you watch a movie, your defenses are down, and you're saying, tell me a story, take me on a journey. And here's where the power comes. In any effective movie or TV show, you are rooting for the hero. So let's say friends, you're rooting for Chandler. I don't even know the different friends individuals. I know one is named Chandler, but let's say Chandler is in a in a uh promiscuous relationship. You're rooting for Chandler, even though you're married, you're a good Catholic. So I'm not even talking about like, oh yeah, the crazy OnlyFans people. I'm saying us, the three of us. When we watch these things, the psychological power takes over. The popes call it an enchanting effect, you know, uh a commanding influence. It takes over because of the power of story. We're rooting for the character to get what the character wants.

SPEAKER_02: 35:58

Yeah, like to not get caught in some adulterous situation or something. Oh, the girlfriend doesn't walk in, something like that. And it's yeah, it's really this the power of story is so strong. It's it's it's how we see the world. We see the world through story. So you you you're you think about the idea of this magic box put in every single home in the 1930s, right? Or 1940s, whenever people start getting televisions in their home, and it's just this propaganda box that just starts feeding us these stories and warping that generation from that time, and and it just continues on till this day.

SPEAKER_05: 36:40

Yeah, that's why like I'm I'm fired up.

SPEAKER_02: 36:44

Like, I as a filmmaker, like I don't I don't care about his like he doesn't watch Friends, but his idea Aaron Channel with 313 from season two episode.

SPEAKER_03: 36:55

All I know they all I know is Captain Sobel isn't friends. That's all I know.

SPEAKER_02: 37:00

Yeah, yeah, because Band of the Brothers is a good story.

SPEAKER_03: 37:03

Even though I mean much of it is propaganda, I now realize.

SPEAKER_05: 37:07

Yeah, so the um Pope Pius XII, I believe it was the 12th, he gave us three categories for rating films. Good, dangerous, and harmful. So it's interesting because you know, good is not a it's not a relative, it's not an ultimately relative term. So it's like most film criticism is just like, I mean, this is especially true in the secular world. It's just like what I got out of it, what I thought was interesting, what I thought was cool or entertaining. That's good. But obviously, we mean more by good. What is harmful? Well, harmful is is something that infects or harms your moral personality, your imagination, your no your will, you know, it affects you. Dangerous is kind of like, well, you gotta know yourself. Like there's there's that middle category of films where like there I know my line, like I I can't watch certain movies with certain actresses. You know what I mean? Because I'm just like, no, I just I don't even wanna I don't even want that temptation. And so you know yourself, and then you got to know the content. And it's like some things you you can condemn for everyone, and other things you just gotta caution people, and I think that is the future of film criticism, and you know, from a Catholic perspective.

SPEAKER_02: 38:31

And and and since you're not going to get the bishops on board to put another Catholic league of decency together, you do it from a lay perspective, and it doesn't just have to be Catholics on board with this. You can get Protestant Christians on board with it, you can get you know peep people with just a general sense of the danger that lies in these stories. And maybe you can form a coalition strong enough to at least get people to put warnings up for their children and go, wait, maybe we shouldn't let our kids watch this stuff because it's it's shaping the imaginations of our children and and the lives they're gonna lead.

SPEAKER_05: 39:04

Yeah, if they could get seven million Catholics when they you know their mode of communication was booklets and homing pigeons or whatever they used back then, radio, like internet is our friend in this instance because we can we can galvanize a really large audience. And and the point is then you have you have an audience for films, and then you know, Catholic or Christian filmmakers who are making really high quality art don't need to find a new audience, you know, from square one. Like we can this can be a tide that rises all boats because there are some good filmmakers out there.

SPEAKER_02: 39:41

What uh what have you guys been doing? Like, how is the how is the how is each episode kind of developed? Like, because you said the early episodes were one thing, but they're kind of developing into something different.

SPEAKER_05: 39:52

Yeah, so early on we knew there was there was kind of the principle of um, you know, okay, what what's a good movie? Because we're part of the one of the segments is we rank movies. So we're like we're pitting movies against every it's like an objective list, you know. It's it's ultimately can't be completely objective, but it's it it strives for objectivity. And we knew at least that what a good movie was. A good movie is not just entertaining, a good movie moves you towards a good, like a real good. The more effectively it moves, the more effective, the higher it can be at moving someone towards a good. So you see, you see how I'm like flipping that phrase? Because a good movie is is not a passive thing, it's not an entertainment passive thing. It's it's moving you towards a good. But that's what that's kind of wishy-washing.

SPEAKER_02: 40:52

All Christian art should do that, right? All Christian art should elevate your heart towards heaven, it should move you in a direction towards heaven. So that would be something that's good.

SPEAKER_03: 41:01

But then when you start getting into harmful and dangerous, it's that's why like the last 30 minutes of silence sucks, right? Yeah, that's why the the whole rest of the movie, great, but that last 30 minutes demoralizes you.

SPEAKER_05: 41:15

Yeah, I mean, silence is is a great example because uh if you if you look at a specific scene, you can say this is a great scene because you have you have um fantastic displays of martyrdom and faithfulness, and it's and I don't think Scorsese like shies away from showing their heroic sacrifice, but you're right to say in context, as a film, as a whole, it it does say that faith is private, like faith should be private, yeah, and it's not yeah, not important enough to share with other people. So um what now the question is is that film harmful or dangerous? What do you guys think?

SPEAKER_02: 42:04

I would say harmful, harmful.

SPEAKER_05: 42:07

Okay, so now again, harmful is you say you should not watch this. Wait, which one's worse? Dangerous or harmful? Harmful, harmful dangerous. Dangerous is like don't climb this cliff, you might fall and harm.

SPEAKER_02: 42:21

Yeah, I would say dangerous. I would say if you if you you know, you need to you I think if you know yourself, you could watch that movie in context. But harmful, I would say nobody should watch. I thought you had it the other, I thought dangerous was the worst one. Yeah, so I would say that's dangerous. I think you can watch that movie knowing yourself in context and say, okay, I understand why the end of this movie is terrible.

SPEAKER_03: 42:44

I think I think being warned beforehand would help make it dangerous and not harmful, yeah.

SPEAKER_05: 42:51

Yeah, so that sounds to me like a categorization of dangerous because like I would say to both of you, like you can watch it. Yeah, you know, you just know that like if you if you're formed in your faith, you can watch it.

SPEAKER_03: 43:04

That's true.

SPEAKER_05: 43:05

Um, but you wouldn't recommend it in a blank slate to random people, like you would say, no, just stay away from it unless you know the person. So that's where that middle category comes in, dangerous.

SPEAKER_03: 43:17

So Yeah, if someone's looking into the faith, you wouldn't recommend it to them, yeah.

SPEAKER_05: 43:22

Because the other thing is the Hayes Code was written in 1930, and this is before the church wrote encyclicals on film. So there's actually new principles that the encyclicals bring up that aren't in the original Hayes Code. Obviously, today we have things like transgenderism, AI. Like to what extent can film use AI? Is it deceptive? You know what I mean? So it's an exciting project to rewrite the Hayes Code, and we're getting the help of moral theologians. You know, we will obviously want Neil Obstadt and Primatur. Not that those are hard to get, like you can, yeah, um, they're not necessarily hard to get. So it's an exciting project.

SPEAKER_02: 44:02

What uh what else do you guys got going on? Because all right, well, I and I I also forgot to ask you, like, um, out of the three of three Master the Ages films, which one um which one received the the the biggest criticism? And what was that what was that like going going through? Was it was it was it like a lot of negative criticism where you were feeling down about it, or was it just like all right, that's you know, I expect that some people wouldn't love it?

SPEAKER_05: 44:26

So I think surprisingly, you'd think episode two would see received the most criticism, but it was I think it was actually episode three that received the most criticism just based on the fact that people wanted a silver bullet, they wanted the answer. It's like, well, what am I supposed to do in this small town in Kentucky or something? It's like I don't know. Like I and and the church doesn't know yet. Like, we're living in a time where the Pope is testing the limits of Vatican I. Like, what are the limits of papal authority? And it's like, okay, what happens in the church is you have a statement from from uh uh you know the magisterium, and then for decades or centuries, that's tested, that's put to its limits, and then the church clarifies it. So I we're in this middle ground where there's more questions than answers, and so the the third film is ultimately about suffering well and suffering out of love and devotion. It's a film about devotion. So, but I I'm totally fine with that. Like I understand why episode three would receive the most criticism. Um, it was also the third film of any trilogy is the hardest because you're trying to wrap up a story and tell a story, and you're wrapping up a story from the first two films, you know. But the trilogy can be watched, you don't have to watch all the films, you know, to appreciate it. You can watch them individually. Um, and then I would say that as an artist, when you're criticized, and I think other artists out there would would agree with this, like it's the criticisms that echo the most. So you can be criticized once and praised ten times, and you feel down, you know. And I mean you guys probably experienced that.

SPEAKER_02: 46:23

It's not just Rob doesn't handle negative criticism well.

SPEAKER_03: 46:27

I don't care at all. It rolls off of Anthony's back, me on the other hand.

SPEAKER_05: 46:32

Oh yeah, oh man, yeah, it's tough, but um, it's it's also the line of work I'm in. Like, I'm not just everyone's criticized, everyone experiences that, but when you make something and put it out there, like, here's my child, tell me what's wrong with my child, you know, stuff.

SPEAKER_02: 46:58

Yeah, yeah, that's gotta be tricky, man.

SPEAKER_03: 47:00

I mean, so so you obviously are you love film, right? I mean, you you did Mass of the Ages, you're doing the movie reviews, you're a filmmaker. What what got you into it? Like, what what was the thing that as a kid like made you know that you wanted to be involved in film growing up?

SPEAKER_05: 47:19

So my dad followed me around with a video camera all the time. Not just me, but me and my six siblings. Um, he passed away in 2018. It was like right after I moved to Ohio, and then I was starting like a company to make make nonprofit fundraising films, like making videos. And after his funeral, I got all his tapes back. Um, they're actually right here. I'm pointing at him. Uh his tapes are in there, his DV tapes, and I digitized all of them. And I was watching them back, and I noticed as a young three-year-old, five-year-old, whatever, I was constantly asking to like touch the camera, look at the camera, see what my dad was seeing. But it was super therapeutic to go through all that footage um the year after my dad died, because I I put together a little documentary about him. And but yeah, to answer your question, there was there was hints of it, but I didn't know it was a real I didn't know you could make a career out of it. I was in sixth grade just making stupid skit videos with my friends. Um how old are you? Um 30, how old am I? Uh 36.

SPEAKER_02: 48:39

36. So your dad passed in 2018. That was my age, yeah. Seven seven years ago. So you were like um 29, dad passed. Um, are you the youngest of your siblings? Or you got or no?

SPEAKER_05: 48:52

I'm the third bronze medal, bronze medalist.

SPEAKER_02: 48:55

I have old is your youngest sibling when your dad passed.

SPEAKER_05: 49:01

Now I gotta do some math. So how how old did you say I was? 29. You were 29. I was 29, which means my older brother was 33, which means my youngest sister was 10.

SPEAKER_02: 49:18

Oh man, that's so hard. She lost 10.

SPEAKER_05: 49:21

Wow, yeah.

SPEAKER_02: 49:22

Um, wow.

unknown: 49:25

Oof.

SPEAKER_05: 49:26

It was it was completely unexpected. It was like a healthy guy, he had just got done with a bike ride, he looked fit, like he would bike all the time, and he just collapsed. It was a heart attack that just took him out. Like they call it the widow maker, if you've heard of that.

SPEAKER_02: 49:42

Yeah, and it's like rotted artery or something like that.

SPEAKER_05: 49:45

Yeah, he was like dead before he hit the bed, like he was out. Um that's harsh. Yeah, it was harsh, and it was man. When I when you look at your dad's corpse, like when I saw that, my faith took on a whole new meaning because I'm like, I believe one day that will rise. You know what I mean? Yeah, and then it makes you think about your own death. It's like it made me realize that the most important thing, here I gotta keep this up there for presenting. The most important thing is to die well. Like if you don't die well, and what I mean by that is like obviously sanctifying grace, die with hope, um, the theological virtues, then your life is a waste. Like nothing else matters. You die well. My dad died well, like he was just a good man all the way through. So it it is a blessing, actually. Like his his example was really strong for me.

SPEAKER_02: 50:43

Um, so when you married your wife, were you when like how old were you when you got married?

SPEAKER_05: 50:49

Oh, well, I need you to do some math for me because we got married in 2013. So that was 12 years ago.

SPEAKER_02: 50:54

So I was 24, 24. Yeah, married at 24. Were you and your wife both taking your fate seriously at the time? Or was it kind of just like oh you are? Okay.

SPEAKER_05: 51:04

Yes, we had recently discovered the Latin Mass, and we were we were kind of going to both. We were trying to do the uh straddling, like one Sunday Nova Sord, one Sunday Latin Mass. And then at a certain point, we were I think we're engaged at this point. I said, We have to raise our family with the Latin mass, and that's a non-negotiable you guys met at Net? Yeah.

SPEAKER_03: 51:30

Okay. What's up, Margo? I went to uh I I had to go to Net growing up. Well familiar with that.

SPEAKER_05: 51:37

Wait, what? You had to go to Net. What do you mean by that?

SPEAKER_03: 51:40

It was um what we had to go monthly for our oh your confirmation.

SPEAKER_05: 51:47

Okay, confirmation retreat. I mean, that's a whole other thing. That's like charismatic evangelists.

SPEAKER_02: 51:53

Rob and I talk about this because like my parents would make me go. You went to life team, yeah. I went to life team, and then I also had to go to like to go to these charismatic like retreats and like spend like we would go to the we would one like we went to one in Scranton, Pennsylvania, at Scranton University, and like we spent the weekend in the college dorms, you know. And I like I've told the story on air, but um, everyone around me is crying because the Holy Spirit is coming upon them, and I'm like, oh my god, I'm open to the Holy Spirit. Like, if you want to give it to me, I'm here. Like, I'm I'm open to it, and like every single person there is weeping, hysterically crying. All the girls around me are crying, and I'm just like, I guess God doesn't want to give me the Holy Spirit. I don't know.

SPEAKER_03: 52:39

It's like this isn't on the list of what I can cry in my life, guys.

SPEAKER_02: 52:43

It damaged my faith though, because it was like, I don't know, man. And then and and it was like this super like it was a very artificial, superficial high that you had, and then when they brought us in this room, the gymnasium, and everyone's praying in tongues around me, and I'm like, What the heck is it? Like, it was just very off-putting for me, and I think it kind of like messed me up a little bit, and then going through like just living as like a novice order of Catholic. Like, I have eight siblings. I grew up in a like my mom was super Catholic, my dad played music for the music ministry, and I just kind of it just I don't know, it didn't it didn't hold for me, so like I would have I was never an atheist, I always believed in God, but I had these like periods where I just would live as though God didn't exist for like stretches, and then something bad would happen in my life, and I'd go running right to God, and I'd get right back to church, I'd go to confession, and you know, like but it wasn't until I discovered the Latin Mass that like I've had just a steady faith life. Like I always had this roller coaster of a faith ride in the Novus Ordo, and then I found the Latin Mass, and it's just been like a like a foundational rock in my life, in my family, for my children, for everything. So it's it was life-changing when I went.

SPEAKER_05: 54:01

Um NET Net is stands for National Evangelization Teams, and it began out of a community called the Community of Christ the Redeemer in St. Paul, Minnesota. And what they focus on is sending teams around, so people who take a year of their life off. They send them around the country to do retreats for young people, middle school. Catholic Mormons. No, no, no, that's I very little overlap, but a nice guy, you know.

SPEAKER_02: 54:40

Um I just derailed the whole conversation.

SPEAKER_05: 54:47

No, I think I derailed it. Here's here's what I want to say about net. So I was so obvious, obviously, I met my wife at NET. We were on the same team. I did two years on the road, so to speak. I was at a parish. I uh I was a year as a supervisor, and I there's a there's a kind of a dichotomy. So I I agree with what you're saying, but I would qualify it. I think that so it was because of net that I first learned how to practice meditative prayer, which is obviously a traditional practice, it's not like a charismatic practice. But before that, I was doing sacramental things, but not talking to Jesus as if he's real and he's present with me. So that's one thing. The other thing is, and this is where the dichotomy, I think, is because as of formation for the actual missionaries, as they're called on net, or the supervisors, you get incredible formation. Um how to reconcile, you know, conflict resolution, um, how how to like before net, I was I was one of those guys who would just hang around girls all the time. You know what I mean? Like I I was in um show choir in high school, I was in drama, and it's easy to hang around girls, they don't challenge you, right? And they like whatever. And then I I had to be in a relationship with a girl to feel like I was complete. But Nette taught me how to how to treat men as brothers and women as sisters first. And so that formation, when I met Amber, my wife, and she was on my team, like I would have just dated her day one and like messed it all up. But because of the formation, I was like, okay, my sister, my sister, my sister. And and it was redirecting all of that masculine energy away from corrupted things and towards things like service and prayer and those types of things. So I I think I agree with what you're saying, but the dichotomy is like as a mission, I do think it's kind of like like when is the new evangelization gonna come? Like we keep waiting for this new evangelization. We think another retreat's gonna do the job. That's not true. Because you have millions of people showing up for retreats and yet parishes are empty. It's because seeds are scattered, but they don't take root. And the traditional liturgy is that like rich, fertile soil uh that we need, like we need that stability. So when I discovered the Latin Mass, it was it was net that gave me that like re-invigorated and formed my faith, I would say. And then it was the Latin Mass where I found a home for that faith. I felt like I had solid ground. And I think the difference is like as a as a ministry, I think, yeah, fine. And I have I have issues with certain aspects of charismatic prayer. Definitely like the like if I play the guitar and I'm with my kids and we're singing to God, there's nothing wrong with that. But when you have a leader with other souls and you're you're calling on the Holy Spirit to lead this time of prayer, I'm just like, just go to the adoration chapel, just you know, go to confession, go to mass. Like, go, um, those are more edifying and sanctifying for you. But as a formation for the leadership, like I think is exceptional. And the leadership at Net are some of the best men I've ever met. Like, I'm still in contact with them and they like what I'm doing with Mass the Ages. So it's really weird because I I wouldn't describe myself as a charismatic person, but I have some trappings from my time with Net.

SPEAKER_02: 58:55

Yeah, I still got some nostalgia for that period too. It's like, it's like look, like my my faith was formed listening to the Franciscan guys, you know, and it's like then I found a home for that. It's like you're you're hearing Scott Hahn describe the mass as where heaven meets earth, and like you're trying to find that at the Nova Soda, you're like, all right, I know that's what it's supposed to be, but then you actually see it connect when you go to the traditional liturgy, and you're like, Oh, this is what they were talking about. Okay. Yeah, exactly. Like, I got it. Um, somebody actually said something pretty, pretty important. I wanted to get to. They said, uh, I won't, I'm interested what you think of this because you Rob and I have discussed it a few times. We've actually even played clips, different clips of of uh actors playing Jesus. And I like we make the joke, it's like, oh, when I like I have a personal relationship with Jonathan Rudy Jesus, or I have a personal relationship with Robert Powell Jesus, or I have a personal relationship with Jim Cavizel.

SPEAKER_03: 59:51

Now we're gonna have uh what's his name? Norwegian Jesus.

SPEAKER_02: 59:54

Yeah, we're gonna have a Norwegian Jesus when Mel Gibson comes out with his new one. It's like, do you see any? Danger in actors playing Jesus because it it the Robert Powell Jesus played a very big part of my imagination of Jesus anytime like growing up, especially because I watched Jesus of Nazareth a hundred times growing up. So, do you think there's any danger in an actor playing Jesus or a filmmaker portraying the life of Christ?

SPEAKER_05: 1:00:21

Yes, uh definitely. I mean, the power trip or the psychological like temptations that come along with that, like you're not playing the president or a pharaoh, like you're playing the son of God. And so I mean, I think Jonathan Roomy seems to be handling it all right. He doesn't seem to be, but he is he's a huge celebrity, like people are going nuts whenever he's at a place confessing their sins to him in public, like people come up and want to want to like confess like he's like, I'm not a priest. So there's obvious dangers to that. Yeah, huge dangers.

SPEAKER_03: 1:00:57

Is there a danger for the viewer?

SPEAKER_05: 1:01:02

Um I would say it's less dangerous for the viewer. Um, I mean, we have icons of Jesus that are look very different. Um, those are different images of Christ. I I think like the Passion of the Christ, after I saw that, um, whenever I pray the rosary, like since then, it's like I'm thinking of those images, like the the screen.

SPEAKER_02: 1:01:25

Isn't that the danger? So, like, so when you talk about icons, right?

SPEAKER_03: 1:01:28

You have icons have a bit of an uncanny value to them, especially like ancient icons, like they're like like eastern icons, like actual.

SPEAKER_02: 1:01:38

But even early Western, even early western icons, like it wasn't until like the renaissance where you start getting actual models that you know the the artists are painting the models, but proper iconography should have a bit of uncanny value to it, and I think that's because you you don't want to imagine a specific person's face when you're meditating on, like if you're doing when you're praying the rosary, like I too, like if you're doing the Towerful Mysteries, you're imagining Jim Cabeza at that pillar. Like, I do think there's a danger in that.

SPEAKER_05: 1:02:11

I'm not saying I know everything, but it just you can come at it from two directions. Like, one direction is God took on human flesh in a very particular way, and Christ has a very particular face and nose and eyebrows, and that that's him forever, and he is worshipful, and that is the image, right? That is the ultimate image. So portraying that image, I mean, I wouldn't have a problem with someone doing it in a play. If my son was Jesus in a play, it's like, okay, if there's nothing wrong in principle with that, I would say there's nothing wrong in principle with Jonathan Roomy doing it. But I I agree it's dangerous. So, like, if if I find myself praying and in my head I have the image of Jonathan Roomy in my worship, that is not that is a danger.

SPEAKER_02: 1:03:11

Not just a uh a mental image, like a like a visual image, but like the personality, the person of like the way Roomy plays Jesus, sometimes a little too soft. So, we what we did was we actually played a comparison of Jonathan Roomy confronting the Pharisees versus Desmond, yeah, like versus Robert Powell confronting the Pharisees, versus I think you remember Lost Desmond. Desmond plays Jesus in a in a movie, it's uh the Gospel of John, where he's and we played all three of them, and there's a very big difference in each way each one plays him. And it's like there's something about the written word where you go in with a kind of a blank slate where you might for the record.

SPEAKER_03: 1:03:50

Did you know Desmond's name is actually Desmond? Is it really? Yeah, Desmond Hume.

SPEAKER_02: 1:03:56

No, that's his name on Lost. That's his name on Lost.

SPEAKER_03: 1:03:59

Oh crap, you're right.

SPEAKER_02: 1:04:00

His name on Lost is Desmond Hume.

SPEAKER_03: 1:04:03

Henry, Henry Cusick.

SPEAKER_02: 1:04:04

Sorry, he's not Desmond Banana.

SPEAKER_03: 1:04:08

Okay, we're cutting this.

SPEAKER_02: 1:04:10

We're we're editing that one out. Honestly, it's not as bad as me thinking right now is daylight savings time, don't worry. Um, but um, yeah, I mean, I'm not I'm not I'm not I'm not trying to like put you on the spot or anything. Uh we just have no I don't I've thought I've thought a lot about this, you know, because I've we when you when you read the written word of the gospels, like when I when I picture Jesus in John chapter eight confronting the Pharisees, like I see him like angry with them, like your father is the devil, you know, and then Jonathan Roomy's like he's just very gentle and soft, and it seems like a very feminized version, like a like a version women are comfortable with. That's all I'm saying. I'm not trying to put you in a bad spot if you ever meet him.

SPEAKER_05: 1:04:53

I no, I think you make good points, and I don't have my mind made up. I just it's hard for me personally to say that something like the Passion of the Christ with Jim Cavizel, it it's bad when people picture those images when they're praying the rosary. Like, I'm I get what you're saying. I think there is a line that people can cross, but it's kind of like with anything. Like, um, does this do more good than harm? Anything can do harm. Um, you know, anything can. Like when a kind of another biblical example is when the movie Noah came out, so it it just botched a lot of the stuff from the narrative. Um, Russell Crowe, Noah, it had like giant rock monsters in it. It had an interesting child playing uh, you know, the angel or god, like um it was really compelling, but you could argue that that movie did more good than evil because after that movie came out, the Google searches for the original text in Genesis like skyrocketed, like unprecedented amount of people went to the movie.

SPEAKER_02: 1:06:15

People wanted to compare the actual story to the movie.

SPEAKER_05: 1:06:17

What's interesting they fed themselves with the real story because of that movie, and so yeah, you can say, Yes, harm was done, was more good done. I don't know, that's a little bit more like this, but with something like the passion of the Christ, I'm just like, I can't see how that's bad.

SPEAKER_02: 1:06:30

No, the the passion for for me in my home is a liturgical act. We watch it on Good Friday every year. My whole family watches it together, and we're like very focused. It's a it's a liturgical act in my home, right? Um, the it's so I I kind of want to take the passion out of that equation because it's almost this it's almost like the exception to what I'm talking about, right? It's pretty perfect, you're right. It really is it really is a masterpiece that movie. Um, what's interesting about Noah is that um it's it's in a time period before like Moses receives the commandments, it's at that time, like it's so early in the story, super ancient, yeah. Yeah, like the the world really is a weird place, and it's not you know, it's like right after they leave the garden, and so it's it like I kind of got some of their artistic liberties in that, even with the rock people. It's like they're described in the in scripture as like watchers, and it you know, it's I I wasn't I wasn't too upset with with Noah. I thought Noah was decent.

SPEAKER_05: 1:07:32

Yeah, so with the chosen, do you think it does more good than harm?

SPEAKER_02: 1:07:36

So my in-laws started going back to church because of the chosen. I know a lot of people who like from watching those they are with just saying, I do know a lot of people that went back to church because of the chosen. I I personally thought there were some really moving scenes in the chosen. Um, but I like I said, I just I I feel like it's dangerous to portray Jesus as just so really like I feel like they show the humanity of Jesus really well in that show, but they did not show the divinity of Jesus that well in that show. That's that's that's kind of my issue with the chosen.

SPEAKER_05: 1:08:12

I think I think what the missing piece is, um, because I agree with you, and I I agree that it does do a lot of good, there's a lot of good in it, but I I think the difference between that and the passion of the Christ is the Passion of the Christ draws from the mystical tradition. So from Blessed and Catherine Emmerich.

SPEAKER_02: 1:08:30

Yeah, exactly.

SPEAKER_05: 1:08:31

Dolores Passion, I think it's called. Whereas the chosen is kind of like this evangelical imagination project.

SPEAKER_02: 1:08:40

Yeah, and whenever you do that, you're gonna get this, right? You're always gonna get them, they get married completely wrong and and and stuff like that. So it's just good.

SPEAKER_05: 1:08:49

Yeah, so it waters down to become this, you know, it's almost like imagined by a middle-aged woman at Bible study. Like it's like, yeah, this is a nice, a nice Jesus, but um, but I thought artistically there are some scenes that come alive in a very effective way, but then again, there like one scene that I think is it's really frustrating to me, and it's it's more subtle, is the Martha and Mary sequence. So we know the story, right? Jesus comes over, Martha's working, she's trying to get everything together, Mary's just there listening. And then Jesus says in the scriptures, you know, Mary has chosen the better part. And in the chosen, he says, Mary has chosen the better part, but she could have helped a little bit, you know, it's like this. Yeah, it's like throwing it. It's like, no, that undermines what Jesus was saying. He wanted to make a point that guys, union with God and nothing else. Like the point that every saint makes God and nothing, like God alone, nothing, nothing, nothing is is the you know, statement of St. John of the Cross, is the road to God, nothing, nothing, nothing. And so to say, Oh, she should have helped, yeah, that's that's what a human says.

SPEAKER_02: 1:10:09

Yeah, which is kind of interesting because that's kind of the crisis we're in in the church right now. Interestingly enough, right? Like, and and you can bring this to the liturgy, to everything. It's like the church is so preoccupied with with like uh corporal works of mercy instead of the spiritual works of mercy right now. They're so like it's all it's all about helping migrants, it's all about climate change, it's all about all these worldly things, and they just won't sit at the feet of Christ at the moment. It's like that is the epitome of the crisis we're in.

SPEAKER_05: 1:10:39

So it's interesting that you're even bringing up you can almost feel the tension that that must have been like in the writer's room on set. That's like I'm uncomfortable with Jesus saying this. Yeah, that he said Mary chose the better part because she's not doing anything, like you can almost feel the discomfort. It's like that's the point. Like, that's it's because Jesus can't be mean.

SPEAKER_02: 1:11:04

Yeah, right. So, like, and if he just says no, she chose the better part, it comes off like he's being mean, and they can't grasp the idea that Jesus was stern at times.

SPEAKER_05: 1:11:13

Exactly. He's not just mean with the Pharisees, like he's stern with his closest friends. Um, and obviously, I wish they did, you know, the um the Eucharistic discourse, but you can't even if they just did it lit like word for word in scripture, it would be it'd be way too Catholic. But I I have a one day I would love to get Jonathan Roomy on a set and we just film that. You know, let's do John 6 with Jonathan Roomy.

SPEAKER_02: 1:11:44

I haven't I haven't watched the last up the last upper episode yet. I neither have I.

SPEAKER_05: 1:11:48

I still need to watch it.

SPEAKER_02: 1:11:50

Yeah, I still have so I'm I'm caught up, except for that that last thing they put out, and it's almost like I'm hesitant to because I know they're going to butcher it because it'll be too Catholic. If you just state the scripture, it'll just be too Catholic for them.

SPEAKER_05: 1:12:04

Well, did you see that scene where he's um he's giving the keys to Peter in scripture? He's like, you know, like who do you say that I am? And then Peter confesses him, and then he says, Blessed are you, Peter, and I give you keys and and and so forth. So in the chosen, they give it to everyone.

SPEAKER_02: 1:12:24

What's that? He gives the keys to everyone.

SPEAKER_05: 1:12:26

Yeah, he like stops looking at Peter and then he starts like looking at everyone, like all the women and everything. It's just like why that artistic choice, Dallas.

SPEAKER_02: 1:12:36

Because it's too Catholic, right? Which what is interesting though is in Matthew, because Catholics love to point out Matthew 16, 18, where Jesus gives Peter specifically the keys to the keys to the kingdom, but he does give the power to bind and loose in the next chapter to all of the apostles, you know. So if you go to Matthew 19, Jesus does give the power to bind and loose to all of the apostles, but he does specifically give the keys to the kingdom and the power to bind and loose specifically to Peter. So it's it's um it yeah, but anything that's going to be there was a couple of interesting scenes where I I mean I don't know why this became a chosen review show, but I just I just figured it would uh it was an interesting thing to ask a filmmaker. So, all right, so what else do you um have you have uh you have other ideas that you you're you're working on, or is this the show where you're putting all your energy right now? What do you what do you what other ideas are?

SPEAKER_05: 1:13:28

Yeah, so Mass of the Ages, we're focused on three things right now. Maybe, maybe four things. You can add a fourth, but the three things we're focusing on is um so our trilogy was seen by you know millions of people, so five million people on YouTube and and many more than that, and it's reached people in the hierarchy. We want to bring it, we want to increase that tenfold. So we want to promote the trilogy. Um, people can actually go on our website, latinmass.com, um, click on watch the trilogy, and you can pre-order the DVD. It's gonna have the whole trilogy in it. Um,$50 pre-orders it. It's all three films, so you can give them out. And we want to promote the trilogy just to bring the Latin mass. We really think the trilogy is has just started, you know, changing minds and changing lives. So we want to keep promoting that. Secondly, is our priest training, so it's free. Any priest, anyone can learn the Latin Mass for free online, and it's an exceptional training. And uh they can find that at um at latmass.com slash priests. And finally, we have a new show coming out. So you can imagine a travel show mixed with tradition, Catholic tradition, where Austin Peck, he's this crazy awesome, cool Catholic actor. Um, he was in Days of Our Lives, handsome, funny, super nuts. Uh, he travels around to locations to different living traditions. And the show is called Discover Tradition. So we announced this actually at Giving Tuesday last year, but we're done with the premier episode, or we're wrapping up the color and music. But that comes out the on the Feast of Our Lady of Guadalupe, but only do people who have donated a certain amount. Because eventually, like what we did with the trilogy was give it away and hope people fund another project. That was not sustainable. You can't just give it away for free and hope people donate. So our model now is we have a period where it's like a streamer. Like you we have something called the vault. So if you donate a certain amount, you get access to all the interviews. Like we interviewed Michael Knowles and Taylor Marshall and Peter Kwaznevsky for literally four hours. And if you want access to that, your donation of a certain amount gets you access to that. So it's all on our website. We're releasing um Discover Tradition Samana Santa, which is the first premier episode, on December 12th on our website on the vault for people who've given. Eventually it'll be online free for everyone to see. But what we hope happens um this next month, it starts next week, but you guys can get a head start on it, is that people help bring this project to life. Um, Dan Driver, who you guys know, he's part of our team. He was the showrunner for this and and really knocked it out of the park. So I had a supervisory role. I wasn't the director of this, but full approval. It's great. It has my complete stamp of approval on it. And it's it's gonna be awesome. It's it's a it's a way to bring shows like this to the world. Oh, but my camera's going out. It's it's bringing shows like this to the world, not once a year, but every few months. Like we we have a way to produce these, you know, every few months. So the show is called Discover Tradition. If you go to discover tradition.org, you can see our landing page for that. There we go. Discover Tradition.org.

SPEAKER_02: 1:17:14

Do you have a place people can donate so you can get a better webcam?

SPEAKER_03: 1:17:19

Coming from you.

SPEAKER_05: 1:17:26

Um, it's actually a really good webcam. It it has AI tracking like Rob's. So it's pretty cheap.

SPEAKER_02: 1:17:35

Yeah, mine's pretty cheap. Mine doesn't have AI tracking. Um, uh uh Cameron, I hope you become a friend of the show, man. I actually I I've always wanted to talk with you. I wanted to talk with you when you were at the height of these documentaries, and not it wasn't because I wanted our show to grow. Like, I actually dude, I loved all three of those films. Like the first one, especially. Um, I sat my kids down and they were like dreading that dad was making them watch a documentary. I was like, we're watching it as a family. My kids were crying after the end of the first one. They were like, That was such a good documentary. Oh my god, like they loved it, and it helped them develop a love for the Latin mass, and it was like right around the time I was making them go and stuff. So I like those films, really did have a big effect on me and my family. So that's why I wanted to get young. But um, yeah, any any other projects you want to promote, you're more than welcome to come on. We'll help you out with that.

SPEAKER_05: 1:18:30

Thank you. I mean, that's the power of movies, right? Like, um we we need to keep all the books published and podcasts published, but if we if we want to move the world, like what the popes are saying, we've got to have a commanding influence, something that reaches not individuals, but multitudes. We gotta invest in films, in media like that. And so we want to bring Catholic tradition to the world, and that's what Discover Tradition is doing. Movie Crusade is a fun review show. You know, you can learn more about how the church actually thinks about movies and ratings. But yeah, I appreciate the open invitation. But as you know, I don't like talking in public.

SPEAKER_03: 1:19:10

Yeah, no, I know. Um we do we do have one super chat, and if it wasn't super chat, I maybe wouldn't bring it up, but it is so you already talked about the DVDs, but will any of the SSBX interviews ever be released or produced or anything like that?

SPEAKER_05: 1:19:28

Yeah, that's a good question. Thanks for the super chat. Uh what percentage of that do I get?

SPEAKER_03: 1:19:34

We'll send it three bucks, don't we?

SPEAKER_02: 1:19:38

We'll donate something. We'll send it three bucks. We'll make you we'll make you make every everything in your life difficult right now for answering the SSPX question.

SPEAKER_05: 1:19:47

But any any questions, fair game. So the S the SSPX thing is really in their court. So we have a version of episode three. Like, you know, you mentioned the Africa sequence. Like, imagine a sequence, but it's all about the SSPX. It's their their argument, their claims, Bishop Filet, they're laying out the case, why Lefebvre did what he did. But for those of you who've watched the film, the film is very sympathetic to the fraternity's position. And that's just as a filmmaker, that's a perspective. We we let them say their piece, but it wasn't enough to say the piece. They didn't like that the film was sympathetic to the fraternity. My hope is well, and I get where they're coming from. It's just like we're favoring the thing that undermines their position, you know. I I could I understand that. Um we're hoping that the door is still open and we'd love to do something with that footage. We don't even need to make money from it. We just want people to see it. But uh, we're gonna respect their wishes that we don't show it to anyone. But we haven't reached out to them in a while, actually. I mean, this is before they release their they're doing like a documentary too on the mass, they're doing a series.

SPEAKER_02: 1:21:06

So the society is like none of their priests are online, none of their priests, like they like they just don't, they're not in that world. Like there's no e there's no SSPX e-priests, like they just don't, they're they're non-existent, you know. So it's it's a it's a position I actually really love about them that they're that they're they're very they they they're very dignified. They're like, no, no, no, this is what we do, and we're not gonna, you know, be silly on the internet or whatever, make they're not gonna say something embarrassing on the internet, or that's gonna get them into hot water on the internet. They're they're they're I I I respect that about them.

SPEAKER_05: 1:21:40

Yeah, me too. When we were at the seminary, like just super impressed with uh the character of those men, they were incredible. But yeah, it's uh I thought the interview with Bishop Filet was phenomenal, one of my favorite interviews. I was really like pushing back on things, and that's when you get some of the best interaction. It's like you're forcing them to dig deep and really think critically through what they're saying. So there's a lot of good stuff there, but yeah, I mean, to be honest, we should reach out to them again and see if there's something we can do with that because especially if it's like its own thing, like imagine a video that's just what the SSPX think, you know.

SPEAKER_02: 1:22:20

You you also got a a decent amount of pushback after episode two from a lot of the I won't name names, but uh Trad Recovery Crowd. So the Trad Recovery Conference crowd, like you caught a lot of because I thought episode two, first off, the the music like showing where the root of some of the Novus Ordo music is, like it was like my little pony became a freaking liturgical song. Like, are you kidding me?

SPEAKER_03: 1:22:53

Our one of our local Novus Ordo parishes uses that um that Gloria, and uh episode two ruined it for me forever.

SPEAKER_02: 1:23:02

Yeah, yeah, yeah. So you did catch a lot of grief from that crowd over there. Like, did that affect episode three at all? We uh sorry, what was the end of your question? What did like did that affect your approach to episode three at all? Like, because I I look, we were in a very defined situation. We had a pope that was very controversial. You're dealing with the Latin mask, you want to make sure people don't think you're being schismatic at all. Like, did that did that pressure hit you at all?

SPEAKER_05: 1:23:29

Um, to be honest, maybe. Um, and I would say in this aspect, which is someone could watch episode two and think like so the the thesis of episode two is something went wrong. Um, and the church messed up. You know, not we're not saying Vatican II did it or a pope, you know, the the papacy is wrong, or we're saying what the church did in her discipline in this concilium, they messed up. You there's no doubting that. Like a mess was made, a perfect storm. But you could watch that film and say, like, there's some holes in it in terms of like, well, from like a set of acantist positions, like, yeah, that's why we hold that position. And so there I would say probably the the only way that it affected what we did in episode three was just to make sure we we showed that the church survives this, not and not because of us. Um it's because of Christ and um the Holy Spirit. So would you go back?

SPEAKER_02: 1:24:45

Would you go back and change anything, or you're happy with the final product and that that's for episode two? For any of them. Like if for any of them, do you wish you would uh took a little eh? Maybe I would have tweaked this a little bit. Like, is there any is there any post-edit regret?

SPEAKER_05: 1:24:59

Uh there's always that. Like uh a film is never finished, it's just released. So it um I'm trying to think of an example, but I wouldn't say like any major things. Um like each of those films I'm proud of because of what they set out to do, and they're I made sure they were very unique. Like you notice that the intros of each film are very different. It's like we're we're trying to pull the rug out from you right away and tell you a different story.

SPEAKER_02: 1:25:30

Like they're three distinct episodes, like they're not one stretched out episode cut in three parts, they're three distinct stories.

SPEAKER_05: 1:25:38

Yeah, and so I'm no, I wouldn't change anything substantial about it, but as a director editor, I'm I'm cringing at certain things. Like, man, why did I tell Timothy Flanders to not wear a tie and not touch his shirt? I was just like, You wanted him to look approachable for a while. That was my fault. Yeah, I was just like, I know you want to wear a suit, but wearing a suit in your living room, it just feels weird to me. Just like I want you to relax. But honestly, he would have been cool as a cucumber in his suit. I just and actually that's pretty natural for him. It's like his natural habitat. But yeah, there's things like that. I was like, oh, I wish I did that differently.

SPEAKER_02: 1:26:21

But um you gotta man, it's such a weird world you're diving into. You're in the trad world, right? And the trad world, everybody wants to make it like oh, tradition is so unified. It's like, no, there's so many different tribes in traditional Catholicism. It's like you got you got the SSPX tribe, you got the Cenevic Contest, you got the diocesan tribes, and then everybody's got like their different views within those tribes, and it's just it's such a it's it is messy, like it's just like Catholicism right now is a messy world. It's like when when people convert, I'm like, welcome to the most dysfunctional family on the planet, man. I mean it's messy.

SPEAKER_05: 1:27:01

What what we set out to do with mass ages is actually pretty naive in retrospect. It's like, how do you how are you gonna pull that off? Because you're trying to to thread this needle while riding a bowl or something. It's like, how do you how can you do that? But really, to be honest, it's not because I'm a creative genius, it's just because I I have to fail and lean on the Lord, and He He is always faithful, and so God threaded that needle, and I think that is the reason that these films will stand the test of time, and the reason that if you go in the comment section, it's it's a very unified front. It's just like, wow, how did how did this happen? You know, but I agree with you. I mean, episode two in particular, we knew like we wanted we wanted a balance. We don't want to pull punches, but we don't want to take any cheap shots. And there's gonna be people on both sides saying, Why did you pull punches? or why didn't you say this? And so we were expecting that. So it wasn't a surprise that there was critiques from both sides.

SPEAKER_02: 1:28:10

A lot, I tell you, a lot of people episode two is their favorite one, man. Like episode one is my favorite because I think the the storytelling was masterful. Like, I think the the storytelling of episode one is masterful, and the reason I don't think episode two is my favorite is because I knew all that stuff, right? So, because I had already learned all that stuff. So, but for somebody watching that stuff for the first time, that is eye-opening. And you're like, holy cow, if you didn't know that stuff, that like I could see why episode two is a lot of people's favorites. So it's uh man, I I don't know. I I I love what you did. I hope I hope you do another documentary because I think you're a great storyteller and you're a a really, really great director.

SPEAKER_05: 1:28:48

So I will I will be, and we're in talks right now about some documentaries, and it's just when you make three of them, I could not watch a documentary with my wife for a long time. I was just I'm living it, like I'm like I mentioned earlier, I'm always thinking about it, trying to make it better, trying to solve different problems, and it took over my life, and I'm glad it did. It's a worthy effort and worthy project, and I I want to spread it around the world, but um, I'm not out of the game with docs. Like I I love docs, I love making them. Um, I think I have a knack for them. So I think the Lord will lead me to more of them in the future.

SPEAKER_02: 1:29:29

I'm gonna I'm gonna pitch uh Cameron a show idea in the green room. Maybe we could maybe we could uh get my show idea made. I I I I've wanted to do it for so long, I just don't have the resources. So we'll see, guys. Um, Cameron, anything you okay. So it is movie crusade. Is it on the uh mass of the ages YouTube channel? Did you start?

SPEAKER_05: 1:29:47

No, we separated um because it's a very different thing, you know.

SPEAKER_02: 1:29:50

The algorithm doesn't like when you do stuff like that.

SPEAKER_03: 1:29:53

The subscribe link is pinned in the live chat, so go through subscribe.

SPEAKER_05: 1:29:57

So it's at the movie crusade, you find it on YouTube. And then uh Discover Tradition is the Mass Lieges show. Um discover tradition.org.

SPEAKER_02: 1:30:06

Okay. Uh Cameron, just respond, man. Thank you for sticking for the hour and a half. I know, I know tedious conversation with us, but uh thanks for looking out for the little guy.

SPEAKER_05: 1:30:14

I appreciate it.

SPEAKER_02: 1:30:16

Um also I'll I'll throw you a few other shows to promote that on when we get we'll just hang out. We'll do we'll talk in the green room. I'll tell you another show or two. You should go on.

SPEAKER_05: 1:30:23

Thanks for watching, guys. Appreciate it.

SPEAKER_03: 1:30:24

Let's see here. Let me find a good outro. I have do I have the perfect one here?

SPEAKER_05: 1:30:30

This is gonna be good.

SPEAKER_03: 1:30:31

I do. This one, I know you love Novus Ordo Ham's uh Cameron, so this one is for you, buddy.

SPEAKER_01: 1:30:41

Come to the peace of heaven and earth, come to the table of tea. God will provide for all that we need here at the table of men tea.

SPEAKER_00: 1:31:02

Oh come and sit at my table, where saints and sinners are friends. I wait to welcome no laws and no me to share the cup of my love. Come to the peace of heaven and earth, come to the table of pen tea.

SPEAKER_01: 1:31:32

God will provide for all that we need here at the table of pen tea.