Groypers & The Future of Catholic Inc?

The ground beneath Catholic life is moving: a diocese weighs merger, a flagship university faces succession questions, and a younger right is quietly mastering the mechanics of power. We open with Steubenville’s crossroads and the outsized influence of charismatic figures like Scott Hahn—how donor gravity, faculty recruitment, and reputation hinge on personalities, and what happens when those anchors age out. That sparks a bigger question we can’t dodge: can Catholic institutions renew themselves without a clear plan for leadership and community stability?

From there we zoom out to the media and political ecosystem. Critics warn about Groypers infiltrating DC, but miss what makes the movement resilient: a culture of praxis that turns talking points into step‑by‑step action. We unpack the generational clash as older voices lean on moral alarm while younger Catholics ask for mentorship, not gatekeeping. The real divide forming isn’t over liturgy; it’s over whether we keep outsourcing our hopes to a spent conservative order or build policy around Catholic social teaching—curbing usury, strengthening families, and defending place over “just move.”

We don’t sanitize hard topics or excuse reckless behavior. We insist on charity as a boundary, reject dehumanization, and argue that serious strategy beats viral outrage. If the old guard wants relevance, it must confront the debt, housing, and wage realities that make Gen Z cynical. If the young right wants durability, it must build institutions and habits that outlast personalities. Between these paths lies a rare chance to renew Catholic witness in public life.

Subscribe for future episodes, share this one with a friend who cares about the Church’s future, and leave a review with your take: is the next Catholic fault line already here?

Chapters

• 0:00 Cold Open And Co‑Host Shuffle
• 1:25 Tonight’s Agenda And Audio Snags
• 4:07 Steubenville’s Future And Scott Hahn’s Legacy
• 11:10 Catholic Prestige, Donors, And Succession Problems
• 16:30 Demographics, Decline, And Local Culture
• 21:05 Rod Dreher, DC Staffers, And The New Right
• 28:20 Fragility Of Personality Movements
• 32:50 The New Catholic Fault Line
• 39:10 Generational Memory And Taboo Narratives
• 47:20 Praxis Over Rhetoric: How Movements Organize
• 54:40 Mentorship, Gatekeeping, And Missed Chances

Transcript

SPEAKER_03: 0:11

If I died today, tomorrow you would come on here and use my death to promote a voting Babylon.

SPEAKER_04: 0:17

Yeah. So Rob passes on Tuesday. There's no show Tuesday or Thursday. So the third show, the following Tuesday, the hunt begins for your replacement. And I'll do auditions. This is a bad idea. Yeah, dude. Even if that gave me an 800-pound squat, man, I don't know, man. Uh Joshua Charles. What on earth is he talking about?

SPEAKER_03: 0:40

Send out inviting to all the current you know podcasters, inviting them on. Make sure not to send one to Trent.

SPEAKER_02: 0:48

Sorry, Rob. I want that co-host spot.

SPEAKER_04: 0:51

So Wagner won the spot. Wait, wait, was this planned? No. Wait, this was this was not planned. Rob forgot to take the intro video down from the last episode, but we did discuss if Rob goes, who's I'm gonna find his replacement overnight. And Rob's gone, guys. I hate to break it to you, but Rob and I. It's me and Wagner. Wagner won the spot, he got the golden ticket. That's it. Um the Broy problem avoiding Babylon. The uh the okay, so uh Rob is feeling a little under the weather. Um, I wanted to talk about a couple of things tonight, and I think if Wagner was probably the perfect perfect person to bring on for do you hear an echo in this in this room? Because I moved some things around in my in my studio and sounds echoey over here. But um, so okay, so I had a a bunch of stuff I wanted to get into tonight. One was uh Stupenville is is talking about merging their diocese uh with Cleveland, I think. And uh I had some comments on on uh Scott Hahn that Thursday didn't really he wasn't crazy about. Uh so I figured we'd talk about that a little. Then Rod Dreer wrote an article about his trip to DC and talking about the Groipers, uh, and how 40% of the zoomers that work in DC are all secret Nick Falenthouse games.

SPEAKER_02: 2:20

I need to be I need to be so careful with uh what what I say about that, but you know, Dre or I I was reading that earlier and I was like he he really has no idea. Like he's he's just like in he's just in his own world uh right there, and it he makes no sense when he's commenting on the groupers and you know their placement and in like political positions. He's just he's just got no idea. It's it's so crazy.

SPEAKER_04: 2:47

The other thing is I think that Catholic Inc. has no idea how much groupers has infiltrated their realm. Um, there's there's a lot of this going on right now. So look, I have this theory that um all the older guys I see like freaking out about Fuentes, and I'm not just talking about like anybody that dislikes them, I'm talking about the guys who are like publicly like saying stuff about the dangers of Fuentes and all that stuff. These are the same guys who all believe in evolution, they all flip out if you question the moon landing, and they all end them.

SPEAKER_02: 3:26

I know you're you're getting a little darker right now.

SPEAKER_04: 3:28

I didn't know that you were going back to the world. It's evolution, the moon landing. Um, and what's the other one, man? Um, what was the other one? It was evolution, the moon landing. There's like me, there's this oh, and aliens. They all believe that there's possibility of aliens out there. Like it's something about like the the the propaganda they all received that they all hold to those narratives. Like they're all just they get upset when you question their their their their narrative. So we'll get we're going to get into that. Um, and uh I have a bunch of other things that I want to talk about too, but we'll see where time leads us. So why don't we start off with the Stubenville story? Yeah. Um, so Steubenville basically is um considering merging their diocese with um let me just see. I want to make sure I have the story right. Uh sorry guys, when Rob's not here, things uh I'm gonna pull up what I wrote and then and then uh share what Thursday said. So let's see what we got here. Uh let's see. This is oh man, this new this new chat for um dude.

SPEAKER_02: 4:45

That could have been that could have been so bad, you know, you showing your your your DMs.

SPEAKER_04: 4:51

I pulled it down just in case, but like the way the new chat is working, I really don't like it. Uh I'm gonna stop screen share there and then restart it. Dude, I don't like the way the new chat is set up. All right, let's go with this. Okay, this should work. Let's see. Okay, at the stage. Okay. So uh the Saint Paul, all right. So I wrote, I got news for you guys. So I was talking about the Steubenville diocese. Now, if they merge, and I said, I got news for you guys. Once Scott Hahn retires or passes on, there is no Steubenville. Say the St. Paul Center will also close down. There is no clear successor to the Han legacy, nobody has his charisma or ability to captivate. So now I was a subscriber to the Emmaus Road thing he had, and I I subscribed to it because I wanted to hear his talks, and then I figured I'd cruise around that site to try to find somebody else that I might enjoy their talk. There isn't really a single person on there that I found like, oh, I can't wait to see what else they put out. And a couple of people were like, Oh, what about John Bergsmo? What about and I'm like, Bergsmo is just as old as Scott Hahn, and he's going to be retiring or stepping down around the same time. So Thursday said the same the same poll center is great, but it's not the center of Steubenville. And there are lots of other things that can survive Scott. The College of St. Joseph, the worker, First Fridays on the fourth, uh, the community life, creator conference, Mark Nelson, Franciscan University, regardless of its problems, gonna hold growth. Uh, if you don't live here, you don't know what we need or what we are doing. Now, here's the thing: um, I don't live there. Thursday would definitely have a better perspective on this with me. My point is that Scott Hahn himself, people may not be going in droves to Steubenville because of Scott Hahn, but Scott Hahn brings a certain level of prestige to Steubenville. He drives donors there, he attracts other professors that they want to come and teach there because they know Scott Hahn is there. Now, you already had Frad leave. Once Scott leaves, I just think they're going to have a bit of a problem over there, especially once this diocese gets merged with Cleveland. I don't see how they maintain their unique Catholic identity. It's not really the epicenter of Catholicism in the States. Like, right, it's for the past 25 years, it's kind of had that reputation of being the epicenter of like of Catholicism because you had everything going on at Franciscan, and they were very closely related to the Catholic Inc. crowd. So all the guys at Stubenville would run through Frad show, they'd have good associations with Trent and Catholic answers, and they kind of like fed off of each other. And I I think they're going to be in trouble when Scott steps down.

SPEAKER_02: 7:33

Um, yeah, I don't know. I could see from at least my knowledge of like kind of some of the dealings of Emma, St. Paul's Center, you know, the kind of everything going on with Franciscan. I could see the argument for like, you know, St. Paul's Center, Emmaus, they're gonna have to, you know, somehow uh change. They're gonna get smaller, they're gonna, you know, there's gonna be some issues uh there somehow. But you know, with with Franciscan University, I I just don't foresee um a sort of rapid collapse, especially because like there's this weird demographic shift of people from the coast going into um actually the Midwest, and I guess Ohio would be considered the Midwest here. Um, and it's it just doesn't really make sense to me that there would it collapse back into being like a crack den. Because that that's basically what Steubenville was before uh was kind of like well, it's still it's it's like it's 50 Catholic, 50 crackhead. Um a little bit of a little bit overlap.

SPEAKER_04: 8:33

It's basically crackheads, prostitutes, and catholicism. It's yeah, that's the mix going on there. It's it's interesting though, because there'll be like a really beautiful house. Like we went there and we rented an Airbnb and it was gorgeous. And next door you see somebody shooting up, and you're like, Oh, that's interesting, you know. But the the the thing is that so if you read the Stubenville are the uh the the article from the pillar, I think it was, they're bleeding Catholics at three times the rate as the general population, really. So, yeah, so instead of like drawing more Catholics in to make it more Catholic, they're bleeding Catholics at triple the rate of the general population. So it seems like these kids that go to college there, very few of them are making their life there. They're they're going, they're getting their degree, they're figuring out what they're gonna do, and then they either go back home or they get a job somewhere else. But it's not like they're forming a community that people want to want to stay. They do have some pretty cool um like devotional things going on. Like that first Friday festival is awesome. If you've never been to it, it really is pretty cool. But um, I don't know. I I don't I just think, especially with the St. Paul Center and the Emmaus Road thing, Scott Hahn has dumped all this money, all this donor money into this project. And it just seems like he hasn't figured out a successor to that project. And I don't know. I I I because I talked to Joshua Charles about this too. I'm like, eternal Christendom right now, like you're the face of it. It's kind of like life site was John Henry Weston. Because we're in such personality-driven times, yeah, it's kind of difficult for a thing like that that has Scott Hanna's the face of it to continue on after he's gone, unless there's a clear, like charismatic figure that's right up in the ranks behind him that he's been forming that can take over things and bring the money in the same way he does.

SPEAKER_02: 10:24

Yeah, I mean, I think that this happens with a lot of organizations. Um, in the Protestant world at least. Uh, I've seen this. You know, it happens in uh multiple different uh institutions, unless there's like this weird thing, it's kind of funny. Um uh R.C. Sproul, I don't know if you ever heard of him. Uh yeah, I've read his books. Yeah, Ligonier Ministries, but they literally kept uh releasing books for like five years after he died. Like it was literally for like years after he died, they would keep releasing books of basically just like transcripts and like you know, recalled out stuff that he had already said and written for like years after he died, because that's really the only way that you can keep things like that going.

SPEAKER_04: 11:08

Um, well, we're watching it with TPUSA, right? TP USA right now, you're watching the face of the organization past, and they're in kind of turmoil right now in mayhem.

SPEAKER_02: 11:20

Yeah, I mean that this is this is actually I was talking, funnily enough, uh, with the the groping of Catholic Inc. I didn't know I was gonna be a part of this since like uh until like an hour ago, uh basically, but um the with the groping of Catholic, I was just talking to somebody earlier, and basically my my sort of idea behind it is that when it comes to Nick and the America First movement, the the Gruiper movement, like they're kind of here to stay. Like they're everywhere, they're here to stay. Um, it's it's like a force that kind of just you know, it's you're either going you have to make a decision. Like if you're going to want to be like a political actor, you're gonna want to be involved in these things, you're gonna have to make a decision whether you like it or not. And this is something that was kind of, you know, it was uh taught to us from a very young age with working with the GOP, despite uh all of their you know supposed flaws, um, actual flaws of the GOP. Um, but we were taught that you kind of have to work with less ideal uh groups or groups that you may have disagreements with uh with things. So you kind of just have to make a choice. Like, are you going to work with like Joel Barry, uh the the Babylon Bee? Are you gonna be working with uh you know Ben Shapiro? Uh are you are you gonna be working with like this sort of side of things, uh, which would basically be like a sort of liberal republicanism, or are you gonna work with you know this other um you know up and coming movement? But the one thing, and this this is the reason why it was uh brought to my mind, but the the one thing where this could actually uh change is the very real possibility that somebody just you know uh eliminates Nick. You know, I I don't know what words I have to say to not get uh this video taken down on YouTube. But if somebody were to eliminate Nick, like that's a very real possibility, uh, you know, in this climate. That's one of the I think like the weaknesses of the Groiper movement is it's definitely um centered around Nick. Like if Nick goes, like the whole thing is kind of done. I think that basically everybody can kind of uh agree to that. So it's it's a very um it's a very fragile uh thing, especially you know, with this knowledge out that probably a lot of people have thought about.

SPEAKER_04: 13:36

Okay, so um it's been a little contentious on our show because I keep talking about this topic. Like I see the divide right now in the church as being on the some of the things that Nick has been raising, right? Like, I don't think we're facing a divide on liturgy, I think we're facing a divide on where you kind of land on this issue. And and my perspective is that it's because we're heading towards something where this issue is going to be front and center. Um, and I think Matt going over to Daily Wire plays a big part of that. I think you're gonna start seeing two camps form, and it's not going to be trads and novus ordo, it's going to be kosher Catholicism, which Stephen Cox coined that term. And Catholicism. Because I see I see it especially, I see it as a trad issue because I see it all stemming from the council, and I see it all stemming from Nostratate and our approach towards other religions, and especially uh towards the Jews, and with that document with no stratate. So it's like I'm I I see this issue as the main dividing line, and I think that it's because there's going to be a version of Catholicism that softens people to accepting the Antichrist. And that's just kind of how I see it.

SPEAKER_02: 14:56

I don't I don't know.

SPEAKER_04: 14:57

I don't and you don't have an apocalyptic view of it, but that's fine.

SPEAKER_02: 15:01

Yeah, I I mean for for at least for me, I actually think the divide is is really unfortunate because I'm somebody who's more on the the right side of things. Like I've said in the past that you know I wouldn't consider myself you know a groiper, um, despite you know how much I am uh accused of it. Um and but I do I do say positive things often about groupers and about Nick himself. I I do think it's actually unfortunate that this is something that is you know a dividing line in the church, uh, because I'm totally fine with actually like you know, believe it or not, I'm actually totally fine with working uh with people, working with people uh, you know, in terms of you know, apologetics, uh theology, uh, etc., with people that I actually disagree very strongly with uh on this issue, and we'll kind of hash out our disagreements. I really don't understand why. Uh it's it's very confusing to me. Uh, maybe you could explain it to me, um, Anthony, but it's really confusing to me why this issue in particular, you know, we're having a differing opinion on matters of policy uh when it comes to the way in which United States politics works, the way in which governance works. We have very different views of this. I think as a sort of pragmatic move, that, you know, it's I think it's basically inevitable that there is uh this sort of large portion of uh groupers in politics. And I think it's um you know necessary to not just have this complete, you know, hostility and never work with them and things like that. I think that's completely unhelpful. Um, and then there's other people who think this is the worst thing since um, you know, the thing that happened in the 1940s.

SPEAKER_04: 16:42

Okay, okay, but we have to get we have to get into that a bit because uh like you're saying you're willing to discuss things with people on the other side, but they're not willing to discuss things with you. Yeah, yeah, that's that's kind of how it goes, right? So you're willing to have the conversation, but I don't think any of them want to have the conversation because I think they know they're on a losing side of this issue. And when you start getting when you when you start getting into some of the things that Nick is actually raising. So, okay, so the way I see it is the people that are like losing their minds over this, all their their all of their fear is we are heading towards another event like World War II. Like that's their fear. It's like I this has happened before, and as soon as people start getting upset with with with with this group of people, the next thing you know, they're bussing them in into internment camps. Yeah, and it's like I don't know. I'm I am like we are like that is not happening.

SPEAKER_02: 17:37

Like I'm saying if I thought that was happening, obviously I would not be doing I would not have the same opinion if I like legitimately thought that that was happening. But I think that's just insane. I think you have to be a crazy person to um listen to Nick kind of understand what grouperism is, and then say, Oh, they're gonna it. This is literally okay, and I was just thinking about this earlier when I was reading uh Rod's article, but this is literally the like 2016, uh well, the 2025 version of the 2016 mean tweets thing. It's like Nick says, you know, edgy jokes, he's he's like you one could say, okay, he's he's rude to this person, you know, he attacked this person when he shouldn't have, you know, whatever. He takes this position, I don't like. But that is completely different than I think he's gonna go out and his influence is gonna result in the death of millions. Like that, that is those are two very completely different things. I honestly think that when it comes to the liberal, normy, uh libertarian-esque republicanism, I think that's dangerous. I think that's very dangerous to me, my children, my future. Um, I think it's dangerous to my nation. I think it's dangerous to continuation of my culture, my church. I I think it's very dangerous. So I like I don't know why they have to make a moral judgment of me of who I'm uh who I'm very willing to work with versus not work with, um, and you know, stuff like that. It doesn't make any sense to me.

SPEAKER_04: 18:56

Okay, so I I kind of want to get into something now. I want to play a clip from Gavin Ashington. Um I will not be commenting on this clip. I want to play a clip from Gavin Ashing. You can comment on this clip. I will happen, Mr. Under the Weather.

SPEAKER_03: 19:10

The medicine took effect.

SPEAKER_04: 19:13

Oh, all right. Um, I want to play a clip from Gavin. Um, and I want to get into because this is this is I want to get into the generational divide on this issue, and this is uh this is kind of where I see this this all stemming from.

SPEAKER_00: 19:31

Um okay, so it was the sight of the Holocaust that first made me inclined to believe in God. For when I discovered what human beings have done to each other, I really could not believe that human beings were capable of what the Germans did to the Jews. Six million. And this is a moment when I have to say how much I totally despise the Holocaust deniers who are sick, sick, sick to their soul, who have been invaded by a perverting evil that has darkened their minds in an attempt to somehow dilute the horror of what evil did through human beings to one another. And if there is anything we can do today, it is to resist the anti-Semitism and the Holocaust deniers who have become vehicles of evil and call them out for it. It's not their fault. I have to I have to interject.

SPEAKER_04: 20:55

Um I like Gavin, but um this virtue signaling standing up like I have to speak about those who deny this event. And it's like the most people don't deny the event. We just don't care. We just don't care anymore. Like it's like we're just tired of talking about it, you know? And the the older generation, it was I think they're too close to the event, and uh it was such a main staple of uh of their education, of the propaganda they were fed, especially back when there was only three channels to get your news information on, and Hollywood was just pumping movie after movie out on this topic.

SPEAKER_03: 21:47

I mean, he he literally said his faith depended on the Holocaust.

SPEAKER_04: 21:51

Yeah, there's there's a there's this tendency to think denial of the Holocaust is uh it's like they will treat people who deny certain elements of that event with with more contempt than they will people who deny the crucifixion and resurrection. Like it's a bizarre. It's a bizarre thing to me when I see people acting like this is the like for someone to question anything from that time is a level of evil worse than the worst heresy on the planet. And I just like it it upsets me when I hear things like that, especially because there are many people who make that accusation who have very messy personal moral lives, so it's like they're they're judging somebody for not for maybe being a little bit younger and saying, okay, like this story isn't that that much of a myth-bearing load for me, and I'm willing to look at it kind of like past events, you know, like okay, it's well, what about the Hall of the Moor? What about what about you know, they're they're getting unknit for saying things like oh Hitler was based or something like that, but nobody would question if you said Julius Caesar was based. Julius Caesar murdered a million Gauls, and it's like if you were like, Oh, I like the aesthetic of Julius Caesar, huh?

SPEAKER_02: 23:12

Have you met French people? Kind of cooked there. Yeah, honestly, um, I'm I'm blue pilled uh on those historical questions that you brought up. So before anybody gets too excited about that, um I'm blue pilled, uh whatever. But yeah, it is really odd to me that uh when it comes to people asking, like there, there's this instance of all of these gropers coming into these political communities, they're going in and being staffers, and you know, because this is actually something that I think a lot of people do not give Nick credit for. And I wish that Catholics, especially when we're talking about church politics, that we would be smarter about this. Nick has always been very smart in mixing together theory and praxis, where he will describe, you know, what he what his political take is about this, what he thinks the plan should be for this and that, you know, doing everything a normal political talk show would do. But then alongside of this, alongside of giving his hot take about current events, something that Nick really excels in is he will actually go and explain what he thinks practically ought to be done. Like, how do we actually reverse this? And he will hammer it into people's heads again and again and again and again of like, okay, well, this is the issue. This is what I think the solution will be. Here's what you can do about it, and here's what I'm doing about it, here's what you know, you can actually concretely, you know, affect change. And I think that for a lot of the older people, they don't really recognize this. Like they they do not understand. Like Rod's article, I was reading it, and he was acting as if they were just gonna have a cakewalk, you know, we're just gonna look at all of the staffers' Twitters and find out whether they're groipers. That's ridiculous. These guys are smart, they're well educated. Um, they've heard about this for a very long time of how actually practically to do this, not get caught, not get exposed. Like these are these are people who are working as you know, like political operatives. They're not gonna get caught. Like they're they're not like the uh the the YR uh group chat leak. Like those guys weren't groifers. Uh they were those those guys were just like random, kind of edgy, uh, you know, young Republicans, um, which you know they shouldn't have been exposed and uh you know had their lives ruined. But you know, these are not like those guys. Like you're you're just not gonna be able to find all of this dirt on 30 to 40 percent of the staffers uh in Washington. Like that's just not gonna happen. So I think the reality is like, okay, what what is their end? And I think that Rod was just completely ridiculous here, too. Where he said, Oh, they're just nihilists, they just want to burn the system down. Like, no, that's stupid. Like, Nick will give that rhetoric, but Nick Nick's solutions in what's the one. Here was my point the other day.

SPEAKER_04: 26:46

I said everything. I said, if these older guys keep throwing the the the accusations they are around instead of actually addressing Nick's Nick's actual arguments, they are going to lose an opportunity to to mentor these younger guys. And and I think that's that the hardest thing for the older guys is like, man, these these kids are just they won't listen to anything. And I do think the younger generation needs mentors. Like, I really do think they need mentors. I think even Nick needs an older guy who actually sees things the way he does. But and and what I've seen, even when you won't look at the portnoy situation this week, kid through pennies of portnoy, said F the Jews, and and and and the kid gets in trouble, like watching Nick come out and actually say, Listen, this is not the way to go forward. You cannot do this. So people are getting on him, though like, like, oh, look, you started something that can't be put in the box, and now you're surprised by it. It's like, no, actually, what Nick is doing is toning down some of the crazier things he said in the past, coming about it, coming at it from a more mature perspective, and saying, listen, we're actually gaining a little momentum here. We want to see actual change here. Like, we do want to get AIPAC registered as a foreign lobby. We do want to question whether they should the APAC should have this much influence over both political parties. We want to make sure that our foreign policy is not shaped by another nation. These are things that we can actually do that we can address and get worked on. Um, so I but I do think that the the issue is if they're not talking about the actual substance of the arguments, they're gonna lose any opportunity. So, Rob put this this post in the in the um the article or the post? No, no, the post. So I don't know if Dreyer or Drew how do you pronounce his listing? Is it Dreyer? Dreyer, Rod Dreyer, Rod Dreyer wants to be a respectable in the eyes of Washington elite. He wants to prove he's not just some some boy from Louisiana. So he remains caught between sympathy for the dispossessed and loyalty to the system that dispossessed them. There's something tragic in him. You can feel this yearning, his yearning to be a shepherd to young men. But the world he knew is gone. The young right doesn't need another anxious essay, it needs leadership, courage, and vision rooted in reality. Dreyer claims the new right wants to tear everything down, which shows he doesn't quite get it. They want something to stand on. They have inherited a country stripped of meaning. Their rebellion is not wanton destruction, but the desperate search for foundation. They have they obeyed the rules, studied, worked, deferred pleasure, and were rewarded with debt and contempt. They reject the system because they see rightly that it cannot be reformed. They have shed the Whig delusion that history moves toward progress, they know civilizations decay, and that when rot sets in too deep, replacement is the only cure. In this sense, they're closer to the founders than Dreyer could ever ever be. In the end, his error is that all of conc and is that all all of all con ink and an inability to learn from their mistakes, a failure to recognize that the new right didn't cause the collapse, they inherited it. Until the goal, until the old guard admits this, every sermon about moral hygiene will be ignored because it's the same tired song of a beautiful of the beautiful loser. Like, that is actually a perfect encapsulation of what I was trying to get at. It's like They think it's like these kids are just looking at the situation, like, oh, we're screwed. Let's tear the whole thing down. That's not it. There's it's almost the system is beyond reform and implicit in liberalism is its own destruction. And we're seeing that democracy really is just a power game. So Nick is talking about things like look, if we take power, you don't want to take the libertarian approach. You actually want to use the power you get to bring things back towards a Christian order. Like if we're not conserving Christian morality, what the hell are we doing all this for?

SPEAKER_02: 30:38

Yeah, I think that um uh a point that was brought up there, and uh somebody somebody had asked me, like I there they basically they uh messaged me and they were they were like, Look, I don't get the Gruper thing. Like, why are all these guys like what why do they follow Nick? You know, why do they join these groups of you know, these group chats and no whatever else? Like what why do they do that? Like, what is the sort of like fundamental reason? And I think that for a lot of them, like there's a certain hopelessness that they have. Uh, you know, they look at the state of the nation, they look at, you know, a lot of the losses in the last, especially in the last 20 to 25 years uh that we've had, and they're kind of picking up on you know an analogy with what Trump did. Like Trump was there, there's a bunch of hopeless people, and Trump gave them hope. And I would say it was false hope for Trump for sure. Um, people can judge uh for Nick uh for themselves, but for a lot of you know, the the younger generation, they they feel pretty hopeless, and Nick actually gives them hope that this is a way forward. You know, people could argue all day that they think that this is a false hope, they think that it's not actually going to deliver, uh, et cetera, et cetera. But that that's sort of the reason why that uh you know that they're feeling this way. I think that's what hope is there in like the Ben Shapiro message like move. No, like well, what what like yeah, has Ben Shapiro ever given a hopeless person hope? Unless you're from Israel, I guess.

SPEAKER_04: 32:05

It's it's uh it's and it's even more that like everybody's like obsessing on Nick, on Nick, on Nick. It's not even about like I'm listening to what Nick's saying. Like, I'm not I'm not a griper, I don't, I don't, I don't watch Nick regularly. I think I think that the things he's bringing up are super important, and I and I'm also watching it split the church right now. Like what with Matt going over to Daily Wire and then watching watching how his guest list is going to shape out, I'm a little concerned with that. I'm watching um they put David Wood is is one of his next guests, and I know they're trying to put uh Protestant Christians in who want to blame Islam for everything while overlooking any of the domestic issues that we are facing with this issue. Like this issue.

SPEAKER_02: 32:52

The way that I think if you're European, it makes actually a lot of sense for me to uh focus on the um the Islamic threat. But like as an American, you look at the sort of rates in which uh Muslims are you know affecting domestic policy. Maybe there's certain areas, especially like Minneapolis, um, areas in Texas, um, you know, certain bigger cities where like Islam is a big issue. But like for me, I I don't even think there's a mosque. Like, I don't even know where the nearest mosque would be, maybe an hour from me. Um, you know, where I'm moving, the nearest mosque is probably like four hours from me. Um, like Islam is not necessarily like the big threat for me. Um, so yeah, it it makes sense from like a European perspective, but from an American perspective to fixate on like Islam is like the big issue that we need to be focusing on. That's very like um, you know, like 2001 George W. Bush. Yeah, George W. Bush in a way that I just don't I just can't comprehend that being like the big deal.

SPEAKER_03: 33:49

Yeah, listen. I mean in the solution to that is pretty easy to stop importing them. Yeah, I mean, yeah, just aborto.

SPEAKER_04: 33:56

I mean, it's a simple simple solution. People are saying like that, oh, they're just drumming up old tropes and conspiracy theories, but I don't think that I think that we're beyond that at this point. I think there's enough going on where you even just see the gatekeeping and how they're treating anyone who even questions anything, what they've done to Dave Smith, what they've done to Tucker Carlson. Like, forget Nick, just just people who have a libertarian perspective on this issue, how they're treating them. Like Nick, I I think is bringing identity into the picture a lot more than those guys. Those guys are just looking at it like, oh, we shouldn't be supporting a foreign nation. And I and and like that's like an acceptable approach to take. I'm looking at it from the the narrative that you discussed with with Gideon yesterday, where you guys went through and discussed the the the older brother and the younger brother in scripture and going through all those stories. And I'm seeing it as Christians are told ever since uh ever since uh uh the World War II that they need to uh um love uh people of all religions and not treat them with any kind of suspicion, but the people of other religions are still treating Christians with suspicion. So it's like, and you see it happening in real time right now, where if you even question anything, this knee-jerk reaction to, oh my goodness, we're on the cusp of another Holocaust. And it's happening not just from the people that we're talking about, but it's happening from Christians, Christians who were raised on that narrative are all jumping to this. We're on the verge of another Holocaust. It's not, no, we're not. No, we're not. It's just not. That's we're no, it's not, that's not going to happen. We're not, we're nowhere near um uh a pogrom happening, anything like that. We're at a point where we want to have a discussion on how Jewish power affects our politics and the way our country is run. And when we're telling you guys that we can't, our children can't afford, like, I live in New York, my son is not going to be able to afford to buy a house. Trump comes out and goes, hey, let's bury them in 50 years of usury instead of 30. 15-year car loans, a 15-year car loan and a 50-year mortgage, and it's like, you are going to make my son a slave. I'm sorry, but this is not a solution. And these are all ideas that help Jewish financiers and bankers and things like that. Like you're just amping the conspiracy theories up.

SPEAKER_02: 36:16

Well, I mean, even if we were to take the the sort of like JQ aspect out of it, like if I were to speak to um, you know, normal Catholics that kind of aren't even uh into that stuff and are kind of more so just like I have a sort of like Tucker Carlson-esque sort of view of, you know, I'm not a pure capitalist. You know, I believe that the government can, you know, intervene and uh actually work towards uh the common good. You know, I'm just a I'm a social conservative. I I believe that you know, a lot of these uh different aberrations which have arisen in the last you know 30, 40 years ought to be uh somehow eliminated, uh whether on the the state level or the national level. Like from people on that perspective, I do think that it's actually a losing game uh to return to the slop of you know the Ben Shapiro uh sort of crowd. Like I think that it's a couple, like, for example, Matt Frad, um, you know, even Trent. I I don't I don't think that Matt Frad, Trent, or uh maybe uh probably not Lila Rose. Lila Rose probably is um you know outside the pale. But like uh individuals like that, I have no I have no doubt that when it comes to a lot of matters of of policy or principle, that we probably have a general agreement, you know, when it comes to we we just want people to be able to afford things, you know. We want um a sort of social cohesion, we want um, you know, like the the moral um you know fabric to be retained, you know, things like this. But I do think it's a mistake to automatically assume that uh reflexively, like we can't in a pragmatic way uh sort of work with uh you know the new right, that we just have to keep working with the old right and grit our teeth when they're bringing literally only France prostitutes on to the GOP uh, you know, uh national convention stage uh to speak, or they're appointing homosexuals uh, you know, to run major departments in in the federal government, or they're downplaying abortion, they're downplaying um, you know, sodomy, they're they're downplaying all of these uh things. They are uh you know only working for the capitalist class and they're completely screwing people over. Like I don't I don't see, like I do not understand, and I don't think they'll ever be able to explain to me why uh I should have a uh a moral obligation to work with those people, you know, because you know Nick has said this thing or that thing or this thing, and he is sort of emblematic of the new right.

SPEAKER_04: 38:47

So, so like I talk okay, so I I talk to Kale on the phone a lot. Um, I just spoke with him um I think two days ago, him and I had a conversation. So like I understand his worries. Like, I I I don't I don't want to downplay that, like, because even with the Portnoy situation where like you do see kids don't understand the difference in internet culture in real life, right? Like, there's really no appropriate time to yell. Like, if that kid would have just said F Dave Portnoy, it would have been fine. But to just start lobbing F like it's just a stupid thing to say. You actually do make everyone look like you are the villain that they're accusing you of being. It's it's not it's not an appropriate way to handle it. I I want to just talk about these issues from both a theological perspective and I want to talk about them from a political perspective. A political perspective because I think that actually affects the future of our country, but a theological perspective because I think that the entire church right now, ever since the council, is kind of in a in a haze to this issue, and they and they don't understand the enmity between the the people of the old covenant and the people of the new covenant, and they all and they're they're constantly talking about uh even even the people I respect on this issue are always talking about the unification of of the brothers at the end of the story, and it's like, yes, that's fine, but that's not the point of the story we're at right now. We're at the point in the story where the older brother wants to kill the younger brother. Yeah, or the Esau is coming after us rather.

SPEAKER_05: 40:20

Yeah, yeah.

SPEAKER_04: 40:21

Where Cain is trying to kill us. We're at the point in the story where Joseph is getting sold into slavery, like that's just the point of the story we're at. We're not at the point where the brothers reconcile. And that will come. And the thing is, there's like there's a way that we have to see this from a Catholic perspective, where it can never arise to a pogrom and it can never arise to violence, and it can never arise to hate. No, but it does have to, but you do have to understand the story properly and where we are in the story. And the thing is, I I mean, I I can't help but but take take the things that Maudsley has said about even the influence at the council. And and if you see the way if you see the way they influence our politics, the idea that they haven't in they didn't influence the council in the same way when we know the CIA was trying to influence the council too, and you know that the CIA has, you know, that is that is a very uh it's a very Jewish project. Let's not just say it like that. Like that's just what it is. And they were trying to influence the church. Now it doesn't mean the church put heresy into the documents, it what it means is they lightened language, they and and the people that came out of that council came with a different approach to the point where now in the Vatican you're seeing Leo having sit-downs with 3,000 different denominations of religions and stuff. And it's a it the whole thing is based upon that narrative from World War II, where we have been convinced that us talking about this enmity between the people of the old covenant and the people of the new covenant, that and that built animosity, and that is the reason that what happened in Germany happened is because of Christian animosity. And and I think all of us have subconsciously accepted that narrative, and it's just not true.

SPEAKER_02: 42:10

Yeah, I mean, I I think that that narrative is uh absolutely absurd. Um and uh I get I guess that that's all that I'll say that the narrative about you know in Germany, uh there happened to be these Christians and enmity with other denominations. Uh, when when in reality it it almost seems like it was actually the complete opposite.

SPEAKER_04: 42:31

You you know what your problem is, you're still holding out hope you're getting invited to Trent's Trent's thing. Like you still think you might get the invite to Trent's thing.

SPEAKER_02: 42:40

I wasn't given any special message of like, hey Wagner, you're not allowed here. I'm sure if I bought a ticket, I could show up.

SPEAKER_04: 42:47

Oh, I know you could show up, but you want to be on the poster on the thumbnail. You're not gonna ever be on the poster, dude.

SPEAKER_02: 42:54

No, it's yeah, if anybody, you know, it's I saw people speculating about this, you know. If they want to if they want to what what's why I mean to ask a trend, I mean it's not uh you know, no okay, wait, wait, wait, but I will ask you this.

SPEAKER_04: 43:09

I will ask you this. Do you think because you did go to uh the creator conference and you did meet a lot of people there and you made a lot of friends there? Like I did kind of expect an infiltration from Wagner into Catholic Inc. a little a little bit, and it's not happening.

SPEAKER_03: 43:26

Instead, they uh they uh what what's her name? Katie Pregeen is uh speaker now.

SPEAKER_02: 43:34

Well, yeah, I mean I don't know. Kyle, Kyle, Kyle. I I like Kyle. Kyle is awesome. I love Kyle. Yeah, he's he's great for sure. Um, but yeah, I mean I I didn't really expect uh that much, to be honest. Uh I'm just waiting and seeing, uh, you know, just just being me, always saying what I say.

SPEAKER_03: 43:56

No, um, they can't be how it's pronounced. I refuse to believe that.

SPEAKER_04: 44:01

Uh Taylor said, Americans should own up and say, We screwed over Gen Z, we were selfish, they didn't inherit what we had. Let's help them. Such a man with that humility would be elected president. Yeah, it's like look, you see the meme going around now about the programs that Germany put in place about families that kept the wife at home and had children, would get a 25% discount on their home. Like you would never see something like that from American politicians. And it's like, if we cared about our country enough, we actually would do that because you would want you wouldn't want to inflate your population with foreigners, you'd want your own population to I mean, for your own demographics to grow. Like Taylor's been hammering this down a lot lately, just about the demographics in in in the West are just on an insane decline right now. So it it just seems like there's never any attempt in policy to help the younger generation. And there's the we're dealing with a recipe for disaster because when you have a young generation who is hopeless because they can't afford to buy a home, they also don't have prospects to get married. Because this tied in with all this is the feminism aspect and just how blackpilled all these young guys are on marriage because they don't see us like man. I because I've my son's been coming to work with me, and we have like a two-hour commute every day together where we talk. My son's 19 years old, and he's like, and he went and visited his friends up at college a week or two ago, and he's like, he's like, you just don't even know what's what's out there, dad. He's like, he just he's like because I he's he's like, I've never seen degeneracy like that in my life, like where the girls are just gross, like the girls that go to college are just gross.

SPEAKER_02: 45:43

Well, I mean, that's not a Gen Z thing. That's been like that for it has, yeah, yeah, for sure.

SPEAKER_04: 45:49

Yeah, so you you add that into the mix. So these kids are are hopeless when it comes to marriage, they they have no hope to buy a home, they have no because even their jobs that they're that they're looking again, and they're going to college for four or six years, they're getting out and they're still making nowhere near enough to provide for a family. There's no hope for a guy to provide for a family where his wife can stay home. It's just you you're you're dealing with a recipe for disaster.

SPEAKER_03: 46:14

And AI is said to just destroy the job market.

SPEAKER_02: 46:19

Well, I mean, I think what it just comes down to, and this is why sort of like my my main argument for why you could never like you you could never team up with somebody like a Ben Shapiro. You could never team up with any of these economic uh liberals in the in the classical sense. Because when it comes to their economics, their economics is completely ordered towards the prosperity of of the few. It's uh it's ordered towards um like the material gain, the growth of GDP of a nation. Like that's what their economics is based on. Uh whereas when it comes to Catholic social teaching, economics is ordered towards the common good, you know. And if you don't have a you know a politician or a political movement that is you know grounded on that, none of their economic decisions are going to make sense, and they're gonna you know throw us into a fundamental uh tyranny, whether it's the tyranny of debt slavery, it's the tyranny of the way in which the job market works, etc.

SPEAKER_04: 47:15

But how about how about our president comes out and instead of saying 50-year mortgages, say, hey, we're going to cap credit card interest at 12%. So these kids aren't getting credit cards with 26% interest rates.

SPEAKER_02: 47:26

Yeah, how about just cap interest? Throw in throw in jail everybody who uh throw in jail whoever made up the fact that we could have credit cards with 26% interest. Like, who who made these things up? It's it's just so absurd to me that like this is uh like it's such uh an abuse and like crime against against your fellow man. It's it's like it's worse than it's worse than murder, um, in a sense.

SPEAKER_04: 47:52

The thing is, okay, so like going forward, uh we're gonna let Christian go because he has to record another show, and then Rob and I are gonna do a locals uh episode. Um, and I got some good stuff I want to talk about on locals too. So this was supposed to be the locals out of the show. It was, it was, but I had Wagner on and I figured it would be, you know, it would be I figured it would be a good a good topic for him being here. Um let me just see something. Uh yeah, yeah, yeah, yeah. I got I got some good stuff over there. So um look like going forward, I I want to get Kale on because I wanna I wanna talk to the older generation, and I and I wanna I wanna keep the communication open. So it's like yeah, so do I Taylor, right? Right? So I yeah, we both have we Taylor and I both have Gen Z sons. Like my son is 19 years old and he's living in this right now. And I want like so it what was worse was the Ben Shapiro say move away thing, right? Like, oh, you can't afford it. You don't deserve to live, you don't deserve to live where you grew up, you just have to move away. It's like for people that for people like Ben, I don't know what his family situation is, but I can tell you this I have eight siblings, all eight of my siblings, except for one of my sisters, moved down to Florida. The rest of my siblings all live at home, like in in this town where I live, right? My my kids all have their cousins around them, they have their grandparents around them, they have my and on both sides of the family. Like my kids have 50 cousins, and they and like my nephew was over my house tonight. My niece slept over my house last weekend. There's something beautiful about your kids having their family around, as opposed to just moving them to the middle of nowhere because it's somewhere affordable, and now they have now you have no connection to anyone around you, you don't have family around. Like, this is this is untenable. It's it's evil what they're saying, like, oh, just move away. No, I don't want to move away. I want my children around my family. That was everybody wonders why I haven't left New York. It's because my parents are here, all my brothers and sisters are here, and all my nieces and nephews are here, and I don't want to leave them. Like that, we have a very tight family. We have I had family dinner at my mom's house last night. Like, it's not, you know, it's not something I'm willing to just willingly give up because I might save a few bucks. So, no, I I'm not okay with just move away if you can't afford to live there. Um, all right. So to to to wrap up, um what do you think uh happens with the next generation of Catholics being that because I'm seeing the divide. Look, I I see guys like Taylor, I see guys like us, I see guys like you, I see us all willing to have this conversation about this topic, and then I see the grouping of guys unwilling to even speak to us because we talk about this topic, and I see the factions forming, and I kind of saw them a year out. I like a year or two out, I saw them starting to form. Where yeah, we've been talking about this for a while, for a while, yeah.

SPEAKER_03: 50:50

When was that uh Philo's project thing? It was like April, right?

SPEAKER_04: 50:55

Yeah, and I think we seen it even way before that, where it was like like the look, look, there were guys who were willing to talk to me two years ago that contact is cut off now. Now, that could be because I'm bombastic and I've done shows on Lila Rose and I you know criticize Matt for joining Daily Wire, but it kind of happened before that, and it's like I they're they're forming a rank right now, and they don't want they I feel like what Trent is even doing with his conference is putting together himself up front with all the influencers in the background and kind of showing like the this is my posse, like yeah, they're basically being told like you guys are on our side, and I better not catch you guys associating with those other guys. That's kind of what it feels like. I don't know if that's just feeling it's it's me putting conjecture on as you know, my own thoughts, but it kind of does feel like that's that's what's happening right now.

SPEAKER_02: 51:50

Well, I think there's there's two things. Um one, I think that I would definitely uh for for the future, I definitely encourage a lot of the politically interested Catholics who are you know genuinely right wing when it comes to social issues, when it comes to economic issues. Uh I I would I would genuinely encourage them to recognize the practical nature of politics and what political prudence looks like and how you can work with people that you may um you know have disagreements with or you may you know find problematic, et cetera, et cetera. Things that we've uh always you know kind of practically done uh with our relationship to the old right, uh back before there was the new right. I would encourage them uh first and foremost with that. And second, I would encourage uh a lot of the people who just completely disagree with me and completely disagree with the rest of us to recognize that uh a lot of these differences when it comes to uh you know the political state of our nation, it it is not sufficient, it is not sufficient grounds for you to hinder the work of Catholic action just on this basis. Like if you have somebody who disagrees with you on this, uh, you know, on this issue, you you shouldn't just bomb, you know, the uh the effects of the church evangelizing, doing apologetics, you know, all of this. You shouldn't just bomb uh possible growth just through this disagreement. Um, you know, it's no, I actually our collaboration with these individuals isn't gonna cause another, you know, uh 1940s event in Germany. It's not it's not gonna cause a sort of cataclysmic uh fall. Um, so there's no reason to you know treat those with these persuasions as a leper. And I think that that uh definitely is in opposition with uh you know the plenty of examples from people of the past who have done similar things.

SPEAKER_04: 53:51

I I I really I watched I watched your show with Gideon yesterday. I thought it was an awesome episode, you you Hassan and Gideon. I thought that was a great episode. You guys just talking about this from a theological perspective, getting into you know the nuance of the topic. No, Gideon is obviously of Jewish descent, but he's talking about it from his perspective. Like, I like the conversations need to happen. I saw Brian Holdsworth and Father Casey on today.

SPEAKER_02: 54:13

Wait, he actually like not a groiper, like Gideon's not a groiper. Uh the groper is clear. Um, but like I'm still friends with Gideon. We still do work together.

SPEAKER_04: 54:24

We still they accuse Gideon of being a subverso, they accuse Kale Zeldon of being a subverso. And it's like Kale's like one of my best friends, dude. Like, I I legit love Kale, and I and I love that he lets me have my perspective on this, and he doesn't like write me off. Like, like I talk to him on the phone, he knows him and I disagree on this. Um, but he he has some concerns that I think are overblown, and I think a lot of it has to do with narrative control, and I think stories are such a huge part of this, man. Like, like the way we see the world is through stories, and when you're molded and shaped in your youth on certain stories, they're just it's like the idea that like you were lied to is a very it's it's easier to convince someone of a lie than it is to convince someone they were lied to, you know. It's it's one of those things. No, but Kale has some interesting perspectives on Peter Pan with it and you know things like that. But either way, um, before we go, I wanted to mention um I there's a young guy that called into Keith Nestor's show a couple months back, and he was a Protestant kid, he was interested in Catholicism. He's from New York, he's from Long Island. Keith set the kid up with me, gave me his contact, and the kid's been coming to Latin Mass with me. Um, and I saw him this week outside of Latin Mass, and he's like, you know, it's so funny. Like, I started checking your channel out, and then I realized like you have all these other Catholics that I really like watching, like Christian Wagner. And he's like, So he's like, he really likes you, he really likes me. And there's a uh statue of Padre Pio right outside, and he goes, Is that Padre Pio? I go, yeah. He goes, My grandmother was like obsessed with him, so I started looking into him, and it turns out he's my fourth cousin. So this kid is Protestant, his name is Dominic. His father is a cradle Catholic, his father came to Latin Mass with me a couple weeks ago. His father wants to go to dinner with me and my family, um, you know, with all of us to just go and sit and talk. Um, but his his fourth cousin is Padre Pio, the kid's Protestant. I asked him what he thinks of Fuentes. He goes, Oh, I love him. So I think I think he'll get a kick out of this show. But uh the young guys, and also another thing, funny thing happened. I went to confession at a novus ordo parish the other day. And I go in and a young kid, like 17, 18, I'm I'm there with my entire family. Some young kid, his name's his name is Anthony, comes over and he's like, Are you Anthony? I'm like, Yeah, in front of my whole family. He's like, I can't believe I'm here talking to you. This is so amazing. It's like I watch your show all the time. He's like, I watch you, I watch Wagner. I'm always hearing from young guys that they watch us and they watch you. So I think awesome. I every every time a young guy watches our show, they always tell me they also watch Wagner. So I think I think you and I uh like our show and your show has uh has a has has a very young audience, and I think we have an opportunity to speak to these guys and make sure anybody that is Catholic, if you are starting to question these stories, you have to understand your role as a Catholic is to never treat anyone with contempt. And I think that's a responsibility we have as Catholics to make sure that other Catholics know yes, you can discuss these things, yes, you can get into this topic, and yes, there is a real issue here, but the way we handle it has to be different from any other group because we're supposed to love our enemies to the point of martyrdom.

SPEAKER_02: 57:50

Yeah, yeah. I mean, obviously, you know, don't do anything harmful towards um, you know, other people unjustly. And, you know, especially like in the church and within the church, you know, don't um, you know, express a behavior that is uh schismatic. Because remember that schism is not merely separating yourself from the Pope, it's separating yourself from those who are in communion with the Pope as well. And that can easily uh you know lead to a mentality where those disagreeing on these uh you know issues of secular issues, issues of uh political governance, etc. Uh, one can easily you know uh isolate themselves from the rest of the church uh you know on this basis. And it leads it leads down some pretty dark roads. I've seen it happen before.

SPEAKER_04: 58:40

Okay, so um we will we're gonna wrap this one up. We're gonna let you go because you do have another interview you're gonna do. Rob and I are going to head over to locals. I uh I have some some interesting personal stories to talk about over there. Uh my my wife and I had an argument this morning, and uh something miraculous happened. That's all I'll say. I'll tease you guys with that. Something miraculous. Close. Something something miraculous happened. And she took never mind, never mind. No, no, no. Nope. She sorry, right? Now we'll get it, we'll get into that. Um, yeah, and I got a bunch of other stuff. Something happened with uh with one of my uh with one of my sisters, with a girl that she knew going to confession for her first time, and like the girl had all this occult stuff, and the priest got her to bring it in. So we got some good stories for the other side. So we will see you guys on the other side, Christian. Thank you for uh semi-filling in for Rob. I knew once we got the conversation going, Rob would have FOMO and jump in, but yep, yep.

SPEAKER_02: 59:45

Uh, you're welcome, Rob, for curing your sick. Thank you. Thank you. Yeah, I'll talk to all you guys later. All right, appreciate you, brother. We'll see you later.

SPEAKER_04: 59:52

God bless you. All right, Rob, take us out, bro.

SPEAKER_03: 59:55

Uh, but before we go, I mean, well, Christian, can we can drop Christian here? Uh, do we want to talk about our sponsor?

SPEAKER_04: 1:00:02

Yes, we'll talk about our sponsor and also guys hit like and uh share the show and subscribe. And if you're not locals members, that's really where we always have the best segments of the show. So join locals. But uh Recusen Sellers, if you guys have not yet, go to recusyncellers.com, use code based at checkout for 10% off. Uh there is very few companies that uh that are willing to support our show, and this company is phenomenal. They have first off, their wine is amazing. Like, aside from whatever they do for us, their wine is amazing. Rob drinks it regularly. My wife loves their wine.

SPEAKER_03: 1:00:37

Um, you make me sound like wine.

SPEAKER_04: 1:00:39

Well, you are a bit of a wino, but okay, yeah. No, go over to Reckon Cells. They also have fruit over there. Um, awesome, awesome family, awesome company. Uh, they ship to most states. There's a couple that they don't they might be able to ship the fruit to the states that they can't ship the wine, though. So check that out. So yeah. So Reckons and Cells.

SPEAKER_03: 1:00:59

Talking about the Requisite Catholics next week.

SPEAKER_04: 1:01:02

Oh, so next week we're doing a show on the um the reign of uh Queen Mary, right? Like we're gonna we're gonna talk about the Reckies and Catholics. That so when when Elizabeth dies and Mary comes into power, and that whole time period, we're gonna we're gonna be discussing the the the almost reversal of the Protestant Reformation in England. Like that that period where Mary Tudor comes back in, and we're gonna get into that a little bit. So I think we'll do uh an episode on that, and we'll we'll be discussing where the name Reckison comes from. How to pronounce it properly, how to pronounce it properly, and uh Grant knows how many languages.

SPEAKER_03: 1:01:44

Yeah, that's true.

SPEAKER_04: 1:01:46

So all right, so that'll be next Tuesday, guys. Um, if you're not locals members, please please support us on locals. That's the best way to help us.

SPEAKER_03: 1:01:54

Okay, and we're gonna go over to locals.

SPEAKER_01: 1:01:57

102 take three. Action, please. A bottle of recusant cellars petit verdeaux is one of the few things that can make me stand watching avoiding Babylon. Use code base, that is B A S E D at checkout.