Will All Israel be Saved? A Deep Dive into Scott Hahn on Romans 9-11 (Full LOCALS Version)

Five hours in Romans 9–11 can rearrange your mental furniture. We walked through Paul’s argument line by line, then stepped back into the long story: Genesis birthrights that skip the firstborn, Joseph as a type of Christ ruling among the Gentiles, the Exodus and the Davidic covenant on Zion, the torn kingdom, the Assyrian dispersion, and the Babylonian exile. Suddenly Jonah’s three days and reluctant mission to Nineveh look less like a children’s tale and more like a roadmap to the Gospel going out to the nations—and a key to understanding why Paul insists the word of God has not failed.

We also make a hard claim: modern political Zionism is a carnal reading of Scripture. Psalm 2’s King on Zion is Christ, and the kingdom he establishes is the Church, not a nationalist project. When Jesus calls Simon “son of Jonah,” gives him the keys, and promises that the gates of hell will not prevail, he anchors the Davidic stewardship in Peter and ties the Sign of Jonah directly to his own death and resurrection. That typology helps us navigate today’s headlines without either cynicism or credulity. It also guards us from the pride that destroyed Judah—and that can slip into any of us who think our factional purity makes us safe.

Along the way we talk about humility in crisis, the danger of date-setting, and the sobering possibility that America plays the role of a new Babylon. We keep the focus practical: cultivate daily mental prayer, return to the Gospels until the parables live in you, and practice concrete charity that proves the kingdom is near. Eschatology should sharpen discernment, not fuel panic. God scatters, gathers, and fulfills his promises in ways no one predicts; our part is fidelity when the Church looks weak, trust when promises seem delayed, and love that refuses to harden.

If this conversation helped you see Scripture and current events in a new light, share it with a friend, subscribe for the next deep dive, and leave a review so more listeners can find the show.

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Chapters

• 0:00 Cold Open: Missed Video And A Five-Hour Lecture
• 0:45 First Impressions Of Scott Hahn’s Romans 9–11
• 2:15 Paul’s Old Testament Quotations And Audience
• 4:20 Salvation History And The Birthright Pattern
• 8:40 Joseph As Type Of Christ And Exodus Themes
• 10:46 Kingdom Split: Israel And Judah
• 14:40 Jonah, Nineveh, And The Sign Of Jonah
• 21:10 Peter, The Keys, And Davidic Typology
• 24:20 Assyrian Dispersion And Gentile Assimilation
• 27:00 Warnings Against Pride And Humility In Crisis
• 31:20 Covenant Curses, Exile, And Return
• 35:20 Herod, Second Temple Context, And Factions
• 39:10 Paul’s Mission To The Gentiles As Israel’s Ingathering
• 43:05 Zionism Critique And Carnal Readings Of Scripture
• 48:30 Sponsor Break: Winery Shoutout
• 50:30 Eschatology, America, And The New Babylon
• 56:40 Technology, Deception, And Staying Faithful
• 1:01:10 Desert Fathers, Temptations, And Modern Comfort
• 1:04:35 Charity In Action: Helping A Friend
• 1:08:30 Plans For Scripture Deep Dives And Advent
• 1:11:00 Viral Proposal Interrupted By Confession
• 1:15:30 Closing Banter And Sign Off

Transcript

SPEAKER_05: 0:31

Taffy's gonna be so upset. I told him we're gonna get I told him we were gonna use his video this week. It was a decent one.

SPEAKER_06: 0:39

Oh, did you?

SPEAKER_05: 0:40

Yeah, I thought we were gonna use it. I didn't have time. Um so I convinced Rob to sit through a five-hour Scott Hahn lecture series, and I have not spoken to him since. And I'm well, not about that. Yeah, yeah, yeah. We've obviously talked, but I am very curious just your initial uh initial reaction. How did you like it? Did you cap like did it keep your attention? Because you you never have been a Scott Hahn guy, like, but I think most of your exposure to Scott Hahn was probably like the lighthouse Catholic media talks where he's like presenting uh like a an apologetics argument in an hour, like C D or something. But this is a deep dive into Romans 9 through 11 that he gave to priests.

SPEAKER_07: 1:29

I've never felt like I needed to listen to Scott Hahn when I'm talking to you twice a week.

SPEAKER_06: 1:35

Yeah.

SPEAKER_07: 1:36

I get him regurgitated to me all the time, yeah, with a new accent. Okay, but what did you think of this five-hour talk? It was um it was very interesting. So, because Romans chapters nine through eleven are often like the verses often used to support Zionism, right? And in listening to him go through it and some of the some of the items he points out that Paul is very careful in how he says things, makes it very clear that Romans 9 through 11 is not pro-Zionist, it's absolutely anti-Zionist in a modern context, but also just how it can uh be applied throughout so much of the Old Testament, New Testament, and history since then.

SPEAKER_05: 2:24

Um did you know how like did you know that Paul is quoting the Old Testament every single thing he said? Basically, it's basically like Paul puts like a few words of his own in, but then he throws in an old testament quote.

SPEAKER_07: 2:42

I mean, I I knew it from uh an intellectual standpoint, but I couldn't have told you what verses were quoting what old testament verse.

SPEAKER_05: 2:52

No, pretty it's pretty crazy, like when you actually go and see that because I if you read those yourself, you just think Paul is writing, and you don't but especially if you're not well versed in the old testament, but everything Paul's writing is is trying to bring especially the uh a Jewish reader to reflect on the scriptures that they know is interesting because it's in the letter to the Romans, yeah.

SPEAKER_07: 3:17

Which I mean, obviously he's still writing to the Jews in Rome, um, because there was a large population of them there, but um, you know, it's not like some of the other letters or or script, you know, like the Gospel of Matthew obviously was written to the Hebrews, you know, whereas Luke was written more to the Gentiles. The book of Hebrews is literally written to Hebrews, right?

SPEAKER_05: 3:40

And he's trying to explain to them how Christ is the new new high priest and all that stuff. But what he's doing in Romans, yeah, you would think he's writing to the Roman church, he should be writing to the Gentiles, but it's it's a it's a theme that we've talked about like a few times on this show, but what Paul is doing is describing how God is fulfilling a promise, many promises from the old testament by choosing him to be an apostle to the gentiles, and it's and he's explaining how God has not forsaken Israel by making Paul an apostle to the because you would think Paul's knowledge of the old testament, you would think Paul would have been an apostle to the Jews because he's so thoroughly well read in the old testament, right? He's a Pharisee, he studied under Gamaliel, like he you would think he would be the one who's going to the Jews because he can run circles around them when it comes to scripture. But God sends him to be an apostle to the Gentiles. But the reason he's doing this is the case that Paul lays out in these two chapters, which is essentially that the God by by by converting the Gentiles, God is actually fulfilling the promise to unite all 12 tribes of Israel. So, what I thought we would do tonight um is kind of go because I know Catholics aren't that well versed in the old testament, so I thought we would kind of just go through salvation history a bit tonight on on this channel, I mean on this episode, because I want everybody to actually know the the the narrative. And if I hadn't listened to Scott go through this stuff over years, I don't think I would know because even though I've you know I've read Genesis a few times, or I've you know, I know the story of the Exodus, and I know these things, understanding understanding it in a coherent narrative puts the whole thing in a different perspective, and it gives you insights into the things we're we're looking at today, also because typology is not just the old concealed in the new and the new revealed in the old. Typology is actually the way reality unfolds, it's the it's the way the story of salvation unfolds throughout history after the scriptures are done being written. And there are so many things that we can learn today from the mistakes of ancient Israel, especially. And the whole point of the whole story is the stuff, like the whole story of scripture from the old testament right through the new is the stubbornness of Israel, it is their stubbornness and their God constantly calling them back and them just going off the rails and doing their own thing, and even when they miss make mistakes, God takes their mistakes and fixes it and writes straight with crooked lines throughout the entire thing. But it's really important when you understand the curses that come along when they break the covenant. So I know my like I know my wife is listening tonight. Is that making you nervous? No, but I like she doesn't know the whole the whole old testament narrative, and I want to make sure I explain it because like that episode we did last week actually got 21, 22,000 views on it or something, and it's like so you get a lot of new people watching, and I know a lot of the regulars will have heard these things multiple times, and I'm gonna ask you guys to bear with us because we've talked about I mean this this this has kind of been a buildup that we've been doing for the past couple of months in talking about the older brother, right? And and going through and understanding that the birthright gets passed from the old, you know, gets passed over by the older brother and goes to the younger brother, but that narrative is actually very important. So to so to understand that even from Genesis, you have Abraham has two sons, he has Ishmael and then he has Isaac. The birthright should rightfully go to Abraham's firstborn son, but it gets past the Ishmael because Ishmael, I mean it goes to Isaac because Isaac is the son of the promise, but it should have gone to Ishmael just because technically he's the firstborn, it doesn't. As you go down, you get um Jacob and Esau. Esau is they're they're twins, and Esau comes out first, and Esau is actually um uh wait, no, wait. Yeah, so but the birthright doesn't go to Esau, it goes to Jacob. Then Jacob uh has uh uh 12 sons, and Jacob, who is renamed Israel, who is renamed Israel later on, but he has 12 sons, and the youngest is Joseph. Oh, he's the second youngest, I think, but he he's not the he's not the firstborn, and he winds up being his father's favorite. He gets sold into slavery by Judah. Now, Judah is also Judas, right? Judas is who sells Christ into slavery. Now, there's also two Judases in the in in there's two Judases among the apostles. You have Judas Iscariot and you have another Judas, right? So it's there's one who there's one who betrays Christ and one who doesn't. So like understanding that is even important, that even in the in in in this in the story of of Christ, how some Jews will betray Christ and some don't.

SPEAKER_07: 9:34

And and and understanding that now Joseph as the younger it's symbolic of the in your you're getting there, uh, so I don't want to like steal your thunder, but you know, we know the kingdom of Israel under David splits into Israel and Judah, and then the two Judas, the two Judases and the Apostles, is symbolic of the split that happens within Judah at Christ. Exactly. The Jews of Judah who follow Christ and the Jews of Judah who who don't, the Pharisees and so on and so forth.

SPEAKER_05: 10:05

So it's like you you see, you see, even the prefigurement in the story. It's not like before it as soon as he calls the twelve, you see the prefigurement in the calling of the twelve. Um, now Joseph is interesting because Joseph gets sold into slavery just like Christ. He then goes into Egypt and he is he ends up sitting at the right hand of the king and rules over the gentiles. Right? So this is another like a prefigurement of Christ. He's gonna rule, he's he he's at the right hand of the king ruling over the gentiles. Then you get into the Exodus story, right? And the Exodus story is important where you you have you have the Jews trapped, uh they're they're slaves in Egypt for 400 years, and God tells Moses to tell Pharaoh, tell Pharaoh, Israel is my firstborn son. Now you just went through the whole story of Genesis dealing with the th the golden thread that runs through it about the birthright being passed over the the firstborn and going to the second. So now, if Israel is God's firstborn son, the implication is that the nations are his secondborn.

SPEAKER_07: 11:25

The gentiles, yeah.

SPEAKER_05: 11:26

The gentiles would be his second, you know, they're not his firstborn, but they're they're also his sons. Then you come to the Davidic kingdom. Now, the the it's really interesting when why do they call it Zionism and not Sinaiism, right? Because Sinai is where Moses receives the Ten Commandments, and we're gonna get into this later. I don't want to jump the gun on this, but there's a very specific reason they call it Zionism, and it's because Zion Zion is where where where the where David's covenant is is made, right? Right, the Davidic covenant is now David rules over the 12 tribes of Israel. This is when Israel, this is the golden age of of the Davidic kingdom. It's like the they they which is man, I was thinking about even the the golden age of the reformation we were talking about under Elizabeth, and how they're calling now under Trump trying to say it's a golden age.

SPEAKER_07: 12:23

Like there's so many things, yeah. But they use that, they use that all the time, though.

SPEAKER_05: 12:26

Yeah, but there was just it was just a lot of things going through my head when I was listening to this, but this is the golden age, the Davidic Kingdom, when all the 12 tribes are together, and you have um uh you have the Ark of the Covenant, you have uh so like this this is this is just like the the where where the the Mosaic Covenant was just for the for for Israel and was uh like it was a very nationalistic covenant. When you betrayed by by them right away, literally immediately. Yeah, the golden calf happens, then you have you have all those prefigurements of even when the uh the serpents are biting them, the serpents are biting them, and God tells Moses to go make go make a you guys are so learned.

SPEAKER_07: 13:21

Learn it.

SPEAKER_05: 13:21

Listen, we're gonna get somewhere. I promise. I know I'm stumbling over my thing because I look, you have to understand that this is a this is gonna be a two-hour show off the top of our heads with no notes written. We just listen to this thing, and we're kind of doing it on the fly, so bear with us a little bit. But I have places I want to go with it, and I'm hoping you guys stick with it. Um, so um, after after David, you have Solomon, and then after Solomon, you have what is it, Rahboam and Jeroboam? Jeroboam is the one who breaks he's in the north, he's so there's there's 12 tribes, and uh Jeroboam goes against the southern two tribes. So that this is uh essentially the point. When we talk about Jews today, all Jews are Israelites, but not all Israelites are Jews, because the Israelites are the 12 tribes of Israel. So the the 12 tribes of Israel make up Israel, the southern two tribes are Judah and Benjamin. So when we talk in in the modern context of Jews, yeah, those Jews are Israelites, but there are the 10 northern tribes are also Israelites. Now, the 10 northern tribes revolt against the southern tribes, they go off and they are much wealthier.

SPEAKER_07: 14:35

It's for where we want to go later in the story, it's important to note that they break under uh Raya Bohm, who is a tyrant. Like he really is uh being a bastard to everyone, yeah. You know, so it's understandable um why they kind of harden their hearts against Raya Bohem.

SPEAKER_05: 15:01

He uh like they come to him and they they they uh they're they're like begging him for mercy. They're like uh like your father laid a heavy burden on us. Um your father laid a heavy burden on us. Can you please lighten the burden? He goes, My father's my little what does he say? He's like, My little pinky is bigger than my father's junk, essentially, is what he says to them. He goes, You think his burden was heavy, wait until you feel my burden. That's what he says in response to them. So that that that kind of brings a little perspective into Christ saying, Come to me, all who are heavy burdened, and I will give you left and I will give you rest. Like that that's what Christ's getting at when he says that. Like he's actually saying, he's bringing a call back to to Ray of Ohm and he's saying, All you who are heavy burdened, come to me and I will give you rest. Because they go to Rahboam and they beg him, please, our burden is so heavy. And he goes, Yeah, I'm gonna show you a heavy burden. And he may and he like doubles their their workload and their taxes, and he's it's pretty awful to them, right? So then the the 10 northern tribes break off.

SPEAKER_07: 16:06

Now, when they break off, they're they no longer have the temple, they don't have they don't have the they basically, you know, the especially when well the Levites, the the Levitical priesthood, the Levites stay with the the southern kingdom, right? So they lose the priesthood, they lose the temple.

SPEAKER_05: 16:26

So now the southern two tribes get very prideful during this period because they have the temple, they have they still have the covenant, and ten northern tribes end up mixing in idolatry and they start doing some wacky stuff. So this is when this is the time period when um God wants Jonah to go and preach to Nineveh. Okay, so um God calls Jonah and tells Jonah to go and and preach to Nineveh, and Jonah doesn't want to do it because Nineveh is Assyria, and Jonah knows if I go and preach to Nineveh, they're going to repent, and then God's gonna use them to bring judgment on the northern kingdom because Jonah's a prophet from the northern kingdom, and a lot of the prophets weren't in the northern kingdom at that yeah, yeah, trying to call them back, like they're they're all trying to try to call them the northern kingdom being named Israel, by the way. Um, so uh let me let me see. I so we've done this, but I've I've read this before on the show. But if you guys are new to the show, you've never heard this. This is actually an amazing thing that's that's happening here. So if if you remember the Pharisees come to Jesus and they and they say, Give us a sign, and Jesus says, Uh, an evil and wicked generation demands a sign. The only sign you're gonna get is the sign of Jonah. What Jesus is doing there is actually really crazy. So um, Jonah's a prophet from the northern kingdom of Israel. He received a command from the Lord to warn the great city of Nineveh about their coming judgment. Nineveh was the capital of Assyria, a Gentile nation. Instead of obeying God, Jonah fled. He sailed on a ship to escape from his task. While on the ship, God cast a great storm upon them. Jonah knew he was he was the cause of the storm and told the crew of the ship to throw him overboard. We tend to think of Jonah as a coward, afraid to carry out the will of God. That isn't the case. Um, Jonah didn't want to bring God's message to Nineveh because God was preparing Nineveh to wipe out the northern kingdom of Israel, who had become disobedient and sinful. Jonah wasn't a coward. He saw that God was preparing Nineveh to bring judgment on the northern kingdom and was prepared to die for his countrymen rather than help the Assyrians destroy his kinsmen. After the crew threw him overboard, Jonah was swallowed by a giant fish for three days until he was vomited up on dry land. The important part of Jonah's three days in the belly of the fish is what Jonah prays while he's in there. Jonah doesn't describe the intestines of a fish, he describes being in the womb of Sheol. Uh, and then this is from Jonah. He says, And I said, I am cast away out of the sight of thy eyes, but yet I sh I shall see thy holy temple again. The waters encompass the waters compass me about even to the soul. The deep hath closed me round about, the sea hath covered my head. I should have I shouldn't have picked the dewy rings. You want me to know I got it, I got it. I went down to the lowest parts of the mountains, the bars of the earth have shut me up forever, and thou wilt bring up my life from the corruption, oh my lord. So that's just like what Jonah's describing is not the intestines of a fish, he's describing being in hell, essentially for three days. So the miracle that in the story of Jonah is not that he survives in the fish's belly for three days, it's the opposite, it's that he dies, right? Jonah died in the fish, went to Sheol, and three days later was resurrected by God. He then reluctantly goes to Nineveh and gives them God's message that they will be destroyed in 40 days. When news reached the king of Nineveh, he heeded God's warning and commanded that the whole city repent and fast. Because of this, God spares Nineveh. Forty years later, Assyria carried out God's judgment and destroys the northern kingdom. When Jesus tells the scribes, Pharisees, and Sadducees that this generation will receive the sign of Jonah, he's showing them how this is a foreshadowing event. In Jonah's day, it was the northern kingdom that was dividing the house of David. In Jesus' day, it's the scribes, Pharisees, and Sadducees. They are calling Jesus, the son of David, a demoniac, saying that he gets his power from Beelzebel himself. They are on the brink of committing the unpardonable sin, blasphemy of the Holy Spirit. So they're the new northern kingdom of Jesus' day. Rome is the new Assyria, and Jesus is the new Jonah. Jesus would rather die to spare his kinsmen, even though they are sinful. But he rises and the gospel goes out to the nation of the Gentiles, who will bring judgment upon the house of Israel and Jesus' owner generation. The temple was destroyed 40 years later by Rome, just as it was destroyed by Assyria 40 years after Jonah. Jesus is the new Jonah, the Pharisees are the new northern kingdom, and after three days, the gospel will go out to extend mercy, grace, and forgiveness to the arch enemies so that God can use them as he used Nineveh. An evil generation demands a sign, and Jesus gives it to them. Two chapters later in Matthew 16, Peter makes his confession about Jesus being the Christ. And in response, Jesus said to him, Blessed are you, Simon, son of Jonah, for flesh and blood has not revealed this to you, but my father who is in heaven. So this is this what I'm about to tell you. This is I don't know how to back this up, but I I read this somewhere. Peter is really the son of Johan, the son of John, not Jonah. But Jesus says to him, Simon, son of Jonah. Simon has become Peter, the spiritual son of Jesus, the new Jonah. This and only thing I'm saying I read was that Peter's father's name is Jon, not Jonah, but it makes sense, right? So Peter's really the son of Johan, not Jonah. So but Jesus says to him, Simon, son of Jonah. Simon has become Peter, the spiritual son of Jesus, the new Jonah. This is significant because it is more Old Testament Davidic typology. When the son of David was anointed, he became the son of God by grace. Now Jesus, the son of God by nature, has become the son of David through divine grace, and the anointing of the spirit at baptism. The transfiguration in the next chapter reveals he is the true Messiah. So Simon calls Jesus the Christos, son of the living God, and Jesus answered, You are Petros, the rock, the son of Jonah. Jesus names him rock because a wise man builds his house on rock. He does not tell Peter to build him a church, he tells him, Upon this rock I will build my church. As the son of the of as the son of the new Jonah, Peter receives the keys to the house of the Davidic kingdom. Matthew 16, 18 is a direct reference to the Isaiah prophecy about the house of David. And on that day I will summon my servant Eliakim. I will clothe him with your robe, gird him with your sash, confer on him your authority. He shall be a father to the inhabitants of Jerusalem and to the house of Judah. I will place the key of the house of David on his shoulder. What he opens, no one will shut. What he shuts, no one will open. This is directly, you are Peter, and upon this rock I will build my church. What you what you uh I will give you the keys to the house to the kingdom of heaven. What you bind on earth will be bound in heaven, what you loose on earth will be loose in heaven. That's where all of this imagery is coming from, and this harkens back to this whole thing that's happening with Assyria and the destruction of the northern kingdom. Now, during this time, before the destruction of the kingdom, the northern kingdom is much wealthier than the southern kingdom. But the southern kingdom, which is Judah and Benjamin, they are so prideful because they have the temple, they have the covenant still, and they're looking down upon the northern kingdom. They're idolaters, they're this, they're that. And they're right. But there's an important lesson in this because not only is the northern kingdom destroyed, but so is the southern kingdom.

SPEAKER_07: 24:03

Later on.

SPEAKER_05: 24:04

Later on, and this is the Babylonian captivity, right?

SPEAKER_07: 24:08

So the point is you want to go over what happens to the northern kingdom and those ten tribes, and go ahead, you take that. And the way the Assyrians worked, what they would do to quell uh uprisings, rebellions, was when they would conquer a people, they would disperse that people entirely throughout the remainder of their empire, and then repopulate that area with the mixture of the rest of their people. So the the ten northern tribes were not only stripped away from their home, but broken and spread apart all over the empire, to where within two generations they are no different from just the rest of the Assyrian Empire, they have become Gentiles in that that sense.

SPEAKER_05: 25:04

And they they are so assimilated that there's no way to tell who they are. Like they are, for all intents and purposes, Gentiles at that point, they're just so dispersed amongst the nations that they're gentiles. So the but but the the the only thing I was getting at is the the the pride of the of the southern kingdom, I just saw such an important lesson in it for us, especially trads. Like we we especially the trads who kind of have this this haughtiness because you think you have the traditional liturgy.

SPEAKER_07: 25:42

Like the and and this includes Ant and I at all.

SPEAKER_05: 25:46

Of course, yeah, of course. All I was thinking about was myself in this. Like I was literally just thinking of myself when I was doing this, and I was like, man, like I I really I really think this is something I need to talk to the people who listen to our show about because I'm very worried about this. Like, there's there's a sense of pride that comes with when you when you are a trad Catholic, you think you have, you know, well, we have the the traditional faith, and we and we have the the the traditional sacraments and we're not uh falling to modernism and all these things. But the problem is when you're prideful, God will humble you, man.

SPEAKER_07: 26:23

And if you if you're too prideful, you're not you're not looking for that, you're not prepared for it, you're not ready for it. Just like the the southern kingdom of Judah wasn't ready for the Babylonians at all.

SPEAKER_05: 26:33

They did not expect God's judgment to come upon them. And there is such an important aspect of just having a humility of heart through everything and and not being too confident in anything, and thinking you have you know you know better than everybody else. It's just that there has to be an aspect of humility that we all really need to keep, especially in this time of crisis. Because I look, I uh I I look at I look at some people who are so confident that this isn't the Pope, and this is you know, and it's like, man, I don't think any of us can possibly understand what is happening right now. None of us can. God is doing something mysterious right now, and for any of us to think we know exactly what's happening, we're nuts because nobody knows how how prophecy is fulfilled until it's fulfilled, fulfilled. It's one of those things you see in hindsight, but as it's happening, nobody knows. We can make some guesses at it, we can try to read the signs of the times, things like that, but there's no way to know exactly how things are going to play out. So you so you you always have to have this attitude of God, please don't let me miss you. Like, I don't I don't want to end up like the Pharisees, where you know they thought they were serving God by killing God. That's that like that's where their pride was. They were they well this you think about especially when you when you talk like because I've I've seen people say about the Antichrist, well, no, he's gonna be from the tribe of Benjamin, and they they list off all the things that he's going to be. And it's like, man, you think if it was that easy, there would just be a checklist. Oh, well, this can't be him because he's this, he's that, and the father said this. It's I I promise you, this deception, if it comes in our lifetime, will be one that deceives the elect. So have a humble heart and just say, God, please do not let me miss you, because the religious authorities of Christ's time are the ones who should have been the first to recognize the messiah, and they didn't. And it's going to be similar in our time. The religious authorities, our religious authorities, are not going to catch it, they're going to miss it because they are so worldly, and we can be very worldly too. And we think we're being holy because we pray the rosary every day, and we do that. Just, I'm telling you, all of us have to have a humility about us right now because we don't know what the heck God is doing, and we don't want to miss it. Um, so then uh the there's something also that is important here is what God does when the covenant is broken. Um, so if you go to Deuteronomy, um, and when all these things come upon you, the blessings and the curse, which I have set before you, and you call them to mine among all the nations where the Lord your God has driven you. So this is when you because you break the curse, the punishment for the curse is you get driven out to the nations. Um and return to the Lord your God, you and your children, and obey his voice and all that I command you to this day with all your heart and with all your soul. Then the Lord your God will restore your fortunes and have compassion upon you, and he will gather you again from all the peoples where the Lord your God has scattered you. If your outcasts are in the uttermost parts of heaven, from there the Lord God will gather you, and from there he will fetch you, and the Lord your God will bring you into the land which your Fathers possess that you may possess it, and he will make you more prosperous and numerous than your fathers. And that's in Deuteronomy. So it's like you you break the covenant and God disperses you because that's the punishment. So what happens is the southern kingdom goes into the Babylonian exile, the Babylonian captivity, but it's only for 70 years. And then they're gathered back into Israel. And then they start rebuilding the temple. And there's like a series of things that happen. So, like the second temple when Christ comes, did you did you know that Herod built this the temple when of Christ's time? Like that's the Herodian temple. Yeah, yeah, that's the Herodian temple. And Herod is trying to usurp the rights of the Messiah. And Herod's not even a Jew, like Herod's an Edomite. Like, so we watched that video of uh of uh Netanyahu the other day saying, like, we must defeat Edom. Like Herod, Herod's like a sworn enemy of the Jews, and he basically buys his he colludes with the Romans and he buys his way into, and he's calling himself the king of the Jews. It's and he builds, he's like what he's like the grand architect of of the ancient world. Like they say that the the Herodian temple was like more grand than Solomon's temple, but um which is pretty presumptuous if you think about it. Well, it the thing is the Herodian dynasty was actually like the the Herodian Empire was bigger than the Davidic Empire, so like that it kind of brings in this is you have the zealots who are trying to kill Herod, I think, right? The zealots were trying to kill Herod because they wanted the Messiah to come. Like, there's so much there's so much going on when Christ comes. It's it it's it there's all these different factions, and um, but yeah, like Herod Herod was trying to usurp that that authority for being being the Davidic king, and he's not a descendant of David, which is why when he hears the prophecies of the king coming, like he goes and slaughters all those innocent children, like it kind of makes that make sense because he is not even a Jew, right? And he's sitting on the throne calling himself the king of the Jews, and then there's this prophecy that because look at the time when Christ comes, there is messianic fervor. You have the Danielic prophecies that are lining up to either like the the they're within 30 years, so it's either Christ is born in the year 1 AD or or He's born in the year 33 AD. Like that's how it's lining up, and meanwhile, he's born in 1 A.D., you know, because we judge time by this why it's coming, but it's like that is this messianic fervor that is going on in Israel at this time and in Jerusalem, and they're all waiting for the Messiah. And that's why like Barabbas is a false messiah, right? Barabbas is son of the father, but bar Allah. He's he's a false Christ, he's trying to try. I I'm I think he was like he might have he might have been like a zealot or something like that.

SPEAKER_07: 33:16

Yeah, he was a zealot who was who committed murder, right?

SPEAKER_05: 33:20

Yeah, he committed murder, he murdered a Roman soldier. It's like there's there's just this fervor going on when Christ comes. So when he does come, you now have the the the Pharisees are are they they want their very specific type of messiah. That's just what they want. So when you when you get when you get to the time Paul is writing in Romans 9, one of the things he says is um where did where did I write it? Uh he says, um, so okay, so now okay, so now you're at the time of Christ. Now the 10 northern tribes are dispersed amongst the nations, right? They are completely just just Gentiles at this point. So the people of Christ's time are thinking to themselves, like, how it's not even possible to unite the 12 tribes, like it's a it's not even a possibility. So, like, God made these promises. Did the word of God fail? Like, that's actually what they're saying. Like, did like that, how could this promise even ever be revealed? So, what Paul's doing in Romans 9 through 11 is putting his case forth that not only not only did the word of God not fail, but Paul is not just the apostle to the Gentiles. Paul's whole mission is to bring the lost sheep of Israel back into the fold by going to the nations where they were dispersed, and it's like very specific where Paul goes. Like Paul goes to the places where those 10 northern tribes were dispersed to in order to bring those children of Israel back in. So Paul says in Romans 9, he says, But it is not as though the word of God had failed, for not all who are descended from Israel belong to Israel, which is a weird thing to say, right? But I I when I read that, I was thinking in terms of the new covenant promise that we have with Peter, that the gates of hell will not prevail. Like that's the first thing that came to my mind when I read that. It's like, I uh because I think we're going to get to a point where the church might get so messy that we will question has the word of God failed? Because it will appear as though the gates of hell have prevailed. It's going to appear like the gates of hell prevailed, and we're going to have to keep faith during that time. And that's the importance of being humble through this whole thing and not being proud and thinking because you have this liturgy, you're going to catch it. Because if we lose everything, if all the sacraments are taken away, because if you go back to Our Lady of Akita, what does she say? She says, The only thing you'll have left is the sign left by my son and the rosary. And if something like that comes about, like the sign left by my son, I don't think that's the mass, I think that's the cross.

SPEAKER_07: 36:16

Well, and in in the book of the apocalypse, the the fathers interpret that to you know to read that we'll we'll lose the sacrifice of the mass throughout the whole world for three and a half years, for three and a half years, right?

SPEAKER_05: 36:30

So don't get so proud that you have the Latin mass and all well, I'm well I'm SSPX, I'm never gonna lose it, or I'm a Cetivic contest, I'm never gonna lose it, or whatever. You have a doubt. I'm just telling you guys, be like have a sense of humility with this. So now what I want to do is I wanna I I I want to get into Zionism a bit here because what you have now is the the covenant curse is you're dispersed amongst the nations, right? But what I read there is that God will gather you back in when you when you what what what was it? He's like when all these things come upon you, the blessings and the curse which I've set before you and um what what Han says uh in regard to this is you know part of the covenant was that they had a duty to go out and gather the rest of the nations into the covenant, and they didn't.

SPEAKER_07: 37:38

Well, sorry, but that's part of the covenant, and it will be accomplished one or two. Whether you want to or not, if you don't go out to the nations and gather them in, well, sorry, you've been sent out and dispersed among the nations, and now the church will use you to gather the nations in, and and that applies to today, too.

SPEAKER_05: 37:56

So, look, during the Babylonian captivity, well, first of all the 10 northern tribes were lost for 700 years, like 700 years. They were lost, right? The the the southern two tribes were only banished for 70 years, and then they got to come back in. But what we're dealing with now is a 2,000-year banishment, well, 1960-year banishment, or 1948, right? 1948 year banishment, and God starts to allow his people to gather back into Israel. And I asked Rob the other day, so I can't I can't ask him now. I I would have liked to ask you on on the fly because it's an interesting question. Like, because we did that show the other day with Gavin and uh and and Scott Hahn, and we got a bunch of comments of people saying, You guys just don't understand Zionism. Zionism is just the Jews saying that they have a right to self-determination and a place to and a right to have land.

SPEAKER_07: 38:51

Yeah, that's the problem, guys. Don't you get it?

SPEAKER_05: 38:54

But that's not really what Zionism is, anyway. Like, if it was just the Jews had a right to land, it's like we we offered them to have like I think after after World War II, they offered them to have land in in a couple of places, right? But they they insisted it was in Israel.

SPEAKER_07: 39:08

So, yeah, in in early Zionism, the big discussion was where where are we gonna build a nation? Is it gonna be in the in the you know the the pale of pale of settl settlement in what's now Ukraine? Is it gonna be uh in South America somewhere? They they thought of having colonies down in like Argentina and Chile. Um they thought about Madagascar, but eventually they settled on on Palestine.

SPEAKER_05: 39:39

They they they didn't settle on Palestine, they wanted Zion.

SPEAKER_07: 39:45

Well, what I mean is yes, there were Zionists, early Zionists who obviously were pushing for that among the options, and and the the world, um, world Zionist Congress chose that in the end.

SPEAKER_05: 39:59

So, so the I I had a conversation with Gideon the other day. Um, I sp I spoke with Gideon for about an hour, and like my heart goes out to Gideon because he he really has a love for the Jewish people and he wants them to convert so bad. Like you could just tell when you talk with him, like he's a he's a little confused about a lot of this stuff too. Like, I my heart goes out to him. I know he has a heart of gold, and he's trying to figure out a way to bring the Jews into the new covenant because he knows they need to be saved. Like, he's not he's he's he's not one of the Jews who because there are there are some of the um what do they call themselves? Uh uh what what what Hebrew Hebrew Catholics or something? Yeah, is that what they so there's some Hebrew Catholics who are actually saying that the Jews being allowed back into Israel is is is a fulfillment of God's prophecy, and this is a good thing. And the problem with this whole thing is it is a carnal reading of the scriptures. Like we all get mad at the Protestants because they misinterpret scripture. What is happening with Zionism is a carnal reading of the scriptures, and it is from the pit of hell, it is so demonic. So if you even go to Psalm 2, what is Zionism? Why is it called Zionism? It's called Zionism because you have to listen here. Why do the nations conspire and the peoples plot in vain? The kings of the earth set themselves and the rulers take counsel together against the Lord and his anointed, saying, Let us burst their bonds asunder and cast their cords from us. He who sits in the heavens laughs, the Lord is uh uh has them in derision. But this is the important part. Then he will speak to them in his wrath and terrify them in his fury, saying, I have set my king on Zion, my holy hill. I will tell them of the decree of the Lord. He said to me, You are my son, today I have begotten you. Ask of me, and I will make the nations your heritage and the ends of the earth your possession. You shall break them with a rod of iron and dash them in pieces like a potter's vessel. This is what the point of Zionism is. There is a messianic fervor in Israel now, like there was in the con time of Christ. When I spoke to Gideon the other day, he goes, Look, when it started out, you know, this was a minority thought, like a minority opinion. Um, and there was mostly like secular Jews coming in. And Pope Benedict talked about this in 2018, well after he stepped down, and he was he was getting a little worried about the way Catholics were getting a little too Zionist. He was like, Look, we can we could talk about like you know, Israel being a secular state, not saying that they can't be religious, like think you know, it's it's fine that they're they're Jews, but like we can't talk about Jews in a Jewish state because of the implications of it. Now, I heard Father Rippiger on with Tim Gordon the other day, and Father Rippiger was saying, Well, you know, there's a and I I love Father Rippiger. Please don't think I'm saying anything negative about him here. I just have to prepare a clip. I just don't think Father Rippiger even was, I don't think he was right on this. He said, uh, you know, um, the the reason the church couldn't support a state of Israel is because there's a lot to do with, you know, how long a people are in a land, and if they're if they're not there for a hundred years, you can't really, you know, give support because they don't have like an inheritance to the land, things like that. And it's like, no, that is not why the church could not support a Jewish state in Israel. There is like the church fully understood what this would mean. The church has always understood that if the people of the Jewish people come back into the land of Israel, that is the beginning of the kingdom of Satan on earth. Like Maudsley's not wrong about that. This stuff is very serious. You're talking about God allowing now. The thing is, they may have their own.

SPEAKER_07: 44:02

Because Zion is supposed to be Zion true Zion. Is the kingdom of heaven, which is the Catholic Church, right?

SPEAKER_05: 44:11

It's the Catholic Church. Like, listen to what that says. It says, I have set my king on Zion, my holy hill, I will tell of the decree of the Lord. He said to me, You are my son. Today I have begotten you. That is Jesus Christ, he is the Messiah. They read this with a carnal reading, and they think their king will be installed in this land. It's an aversion. There is no like this is a carnal reading of the scriptures. This is so demonic.

SPEAKER_06: 44:43

It's one of those.

SPEAKER_05: 44:44

Oh man, I we should do this on locals. We should bring this over to locals because I I we need to talk like this is end of the world stuff. It really is. Like, I'm sorry, guys, but we are talking about end of potentially end of the world stuff. And the thing is, there's a lot that comes with this, especially with the stuff that is happening. Like, there is not a co this is not a coincidence that the Republican Party is in a civil war right now, and this whole thing, and and Nick like Nick Fluentes is bringing about the apocalypse, essentially. By bringing this conversation, they're just using him, they're using him as as as a tool to bring this conversation to the public because they want it in the public. Us talking about this, they want this, they want this. That's why, dude. Do you remember when we think they do want it? Do you remember when we used to talk about this topic? We used to have to call them the Amish.

SPEAKER_07: 45:43

Yeah, it's been a while since we've had to use that term, actually.

SPEAKER_05: 45:46

Like you think about a couple of years ago, we used to have to say the Amish.

SPEAKER_07: 45:50

Yeah.

SPEAKER_05: 45:51

Um, look, do you for a second think Ben Shapiro is not a hardcore Zionist in that he is like waiting a Messiah? He is waiting for the Messiah. He thinks he's in the messianic age. Yeah, for sure he does.

SPEAKER_07: 46:07

I would be surprised if he thinks he is the Messiah.

SPEAKER_05: 46:11

He is fervently waiting for the Messiah right now. And the thing is, it is the dominant thought in Israel right now, it is not a minority thought anymore. This is a very, very serious thing that we're talking about, and it's all about a carnal reading of the scriptures where they read prophecies from the old testament that are fulfilled in Christ, and they think because this is all about crushing the nations with a rod, their messiah will crush the nations with a rod, and this leads to the antichrist, like it really does. And the thing is, if if we got to do this on locals, just because this is this is before we do that.

SPEAKER_07: 46:53

We should probably uh mention our sponsor.

SPEAKER_05: 46:56

Yes, absolutely. We love recus and sellers, so we do need to mention them. But this is um this is this is where like I'm going to start getting into some of my my my insights I got from the Han talk because we went through we went through the story and the narrative and stuff, but some of the things that I was thinking when I was listening to this and just the the the the way this thing seems to be unfolding is it's a lot. So we uh Reggie Sincellers. Um Regison Sellers, you goes you use code base to checkout for 10% off. Reguson Cellars is a winery out in Washington State, they've been our sponsor for almost a year now. We took a little break in the summer because they they couldn't uh ship in the in the hot months. But while winter's here, we still have them. We'd love it if you guys could help support them. They're an awesome Catholic family. They love our show, they love what we do, they love that Rob can't pronounce their name.

SPEAKER_07: 47:54

Um that's ironic is I can pronounce Manashevitz better than I can requisite. Yeah, it's kind of again that it is bizarre. Demonic inversion right there, folks. Um we promise they're not Manashevitz. We do.

SPEAKER_05: 48:08

We do, we really should do like have like a better ad read for them because I kind of do this off the top of my head. I don't I don't read it, but they they also ship uh different fruits and things like that. But like it's important to support Catholic companies.

SPEAKER_07: 48:24

Unbelievable. She says I can pronounce Manishevitz better because of my hair.

SPEAKER_05: 48:29

It's the juke, bro. Um, it's important to support companies that that actually, like especially a show like ours, because the interesting thing is we're the only ones actually talking about this stuff, and it's bizarre to me because well, it's not bizarre to me. There are much smarter people who should be talking about this.

SPEAKER_07: 48:47

We don't have big sponsors that are don't want us to talk about this.

SPEAKER_05: 48:50

That's why we talk about it. But there are very few shows, there are very few companies that will sponsor us, and Recusant is one of the very few. There's one other company asking, and we're probably gonna do um Black Monk Rosary soon. But as of now, Recucent Sellers, the only show, the only company brave enough to support this show and the things we talk about.

SPEAKER_07: 49:11

And if you yourself do not drink, buy it as gifts for Christmas. Christmas is fun.

SPEAKER_05: 49:17

Thanksgiving, bring a bottle of wine to Thanksgiving, guys. Yeah, bring a bottle of wine to Thanksgiving. That's that's a great idea. Like, think about the gift you could bring to your family on Thanksgiving. Buy a bottle of wine for Thanksgiving. You know what? I'm I'm gonna run that for the next couple episodes we do, even if they didn't tell us to. This is a great Thanksgiving gift, it's also a great Christmas gift.

SPEAKER_07: 49:35

I wonder if they can give me some bottles before Thanksgiving.

SPEAKER_05: 49:39

You think it's too soon, too, too late? Okay, either way.

SPEAKER_07: 49:42

Well, I'm just saying for me myself. I we're traveling.

SPEAKER_05: 49:46

We should have been pumping that all all November. What were we thinking? Should have been pumping that all of November.

SPEAKER_07: 49:52

Either way, remember to do it at the end of the show.

SPEAKER_05: 49:55

Um, so um, let's see, Irish Catholic last. The problem is people think in carnal terms, Christ said, You are of your father, the devil. This isn't an earthly plan, it is the demonic plan contrived and executed by the evil one beginning in the garden. That so we're gonna get into a lot of that. Like, this is it is strange to me, though, that we're the show talking about this because I'm a freaking high school dropout and a construction worker, and you're an accountant from Minnesota, and there are much smarter people who should be talking about this. And I'll be honest, like Scott Hahn should be talking about this because he knows the story, and he understands the implications of what's happening right now, and it's the reason he would probably never come on our show because I would have to press him on these things. It's this is this is deep stuff. It's like you're God allowing them to come back into that land as apocalyptic undertone, like there's no way around seeing it that way, and then when you add in all the things we're seeing happening in the world right now, there's no other way to see this than as being part of the eschaton because America plays a very big part in it, a very big part, and things things seem to be heating up. So we're gonna go over to the other side and we're gonna talk about it over there. Um, I probably should give my wife uh a login for uh locals.

SPEAKER_07: 51:26

Just give her your login.

SPEAKER_05: 51:28

Oh Nicole, if you want to watch it still, text me. I'll give you I'll give you the locals code, the locals login.

SPEAKER_07: 51:35

Uh let me all right.

SPEAKER_05: 51:38

So if you guys are not locals members, come over there and join us. Um I'd be interested to hear you guys' feedback because this this one is um this is this is uh this is just from listening to this whole thing, all I could think about was like the implications for today. So that that's kind of what I want to get into on the other side. And this this may be um a multi-part series where the next episode we may actually go through Romans and kind of break down what what what Paul is saying in the in those verses and stuff and try to break it down a little bit, but I mean it it's a very uh oh Nicole wants to log in. Um just come down and grab my phone. You can watch it on my phone.

SPEAKER_06: 52:29

I could have just said it. I texted it. She's clearly watching.

SPEAKER_05: 52:34

Just come downstairs, Nicole. I'll give you my phone and I'll log in for you.

SPEAKER_07: 52:37

Oh, good news, good news, everyone. Requisant sellers does offer next day air, which I'm doing literally right now to get mail for or to get wine for Thanksgiving.

SPEAKER_05: 52:50

Um hold on, I have to I have to actually get on the You're gonna have to come on to go here. Wait, I'm giving my wife the phone. Hang on. Wait, it's not playing though. How do I wait? No, no, no, don't go nowhere. All right, Rob, take us out. I'll give her the phone.

SPEAKER_07: 53:06

Hold on, I gotta buy my wine. Wait, I need to make sure to get it for Thanksgiving.

SPEAKER_05: 53:12

Nicole, Nicole never watches the show, so this is you do not. He never watches.

SPEAKER_07: 53:19

I do.

SPEAKER_05: 53:21

Um, all right, hold on.

SPEAKER_07: 53:23

Okay, well, I'll I'm gonna start killing streams. So, everyone, if you're watching on YouTube, move over to locals because I'm killing the streams here in just a second.

SPEAKER_05: 53:31

I gave her my iPad. Uh, it was so bad. I wonder why we're the only ones talking about this. We're the most unprofessional show in the world. Uh it's the end of the world. Order your wine now, they're saying on locals.

SPEAKER_07: 53:51

Okay, we are we should be on locals only. Okay, I got my wine ordered, it should be here.

SPEAKER_05: 53:57

That was the worst ending to a that was the worst ending to a YouTube show in this thing. We are really all over the place this episode, man. Okay, so the but the reason why is uh like okay, I've been in a backhoe all week and it's been I haven't been able to like take notes or anything, right? No, wait. A guy I work with today was backing up a cement truck, and a tire blew on the cement truck when it exploded, it blew out the mud flap on the back and the tail light of the truck. The mud flap hit my friend Mike in the groin so bad that he has to get his testicle removed. Like he's in the hospital right now. This, like a horrific accident, like a freak accident that couldn't have been avoided. Every like all safety protocols were followed. It just was a freak accident. The tire exploded, blew off the mud flap, ripped it off the truck, and it hit him in the groin. And he's in the hospital right now. They have to remove his right testicle. Like this poor kid feels so bad for him. Like, you think about how he says you laugh as a man.

SPEAKER_07: 55:14

I I get home and and Hope asks me how my day was, and I'm like, You know my day at work. I'm like, could have been a lot worse. I'm like, you want to hear the worst a lot worse. The worst story of someone at work, uh someone uh at work besides dying, and she's like, Well, you mean besides dying or or like uh getting a disfiguring injury injury injury?

SPEAKER_05: 55:34

I'm like, Well, actually, you know a disfiguring injury to like oh man, the the amount of like the the thought of what that poor kid ruptured his testicle. Like, I feel so bad for him. That poor kid, man. No, but he's 30 30, 32. He's like thinking about getting married, he's like about to propose to his girl. Oh feel bad for him. Anyway, um my yeah, my poor wife. This is the show she's watching. Well, she knows him too, though. Uh he's he's he's uh we've known him for a decade, so more than that, 20 20 years I've known the kid for.

SPEAKER_07: 56:10

So um anyway, um yeah, so someone says it was the Jews sterilizing the native population.

SPEAKER_05: 56:24

Um okay, so them them being gathered back in, um it's like they have their own machinations on what they're doing, they are trying to establish their their kingdom, their political kingdom, and they're trying to set it up so that then the messiah could just step in and rule from Israel, right? But they could have their own machinations on it. But I and I always had this thought that there's gonna be this mass conversion at the end of time, right? I don't I don't think that's what's going to happen anymore, especially after listening to this, because that's never how God has worked.

SPEAKER_07: 57:00

God's always preserved the what do you mean by mass conversion? You did you mean like you thought all the Jews?

SPEAKER_05: 57:06

Yeah, like I thought I thought it was gonna be like like like all the Jews were gonna convert.

SPEAKER_07: 57:12

Um and I guess I've I never when I you know when you hear that the fathers teach of mass conversion of the Jews, I always thought they just meant like you know, at some point the Jews would be, you know, more or less given a choice between the antichrist and Christ, and you would have a large chunk, yeah, probably not even the majority, but a large chunk at that point that would choose Christ, and that's a a mass conversion, right?

SPEAKER_05: 57:38

Well, I think that there would still be it'll be similar to when Christ came, right? It wasn't it wasn't like a 50-50 split.

SPEAKER_07: 57:45

Oh, but but you you could call the the what the 3,000 or whatever that were baptized, Pentecost. Yeah, call that a mass conversion, yeah.

SPEAKER_05: 57:52

I guess so, yeah. Yeah, I guess I always thought it would just like be all the Jews would come back in or something, you know, and that's just it's just not going to be the way it works. It's it's it's going to to be God preserves a remnant amongst them that He that He wants to bring back in because they have they have their their ideas of what they're going to do, but God wants to save them still, like He still does have a love for these people. And the thing is, they've been stuck like the the people that think this is like anti-Semitism, it's like go back and read the story, the whole story is about their stubbornness. It's it's the entire point of the story is God trying to save them and them not and them refusing God.

SPEAKER_07: 58:37

And if you really read the whole story, it really does make the whole notion of anti-Semitism as a whole really pointless because 10 of the 12 tribes were like are interspersed with us, like you think you're Sicilian, you're probably like nine of those ten tribes.

SPEAKER_05: 58:56

Dude, think about it. God God brings them out of Egypt, Moses goes up the mountain. By the time he comes back down, they're all worshiping a foreign god.

SPEAKER_07: 59:05

Like, this is the whole story. It's this is specifically specifically one of the Egyptian gods, you know, the golden bull, yeah.

SPEAKER_05: 59:11

Yeah, and and the the idea of them establishing this earthly kingdom that will rule over the nations, it is specifically because of this carnal reading of the scriptures. So you have Isaiah 2 is another one. Um pull up Isaiah 2. Uh man, she took my iPad. My eyes are terrible.

SPEAKER_07: 59:37

You hold on. You want me to read Isaiah, Isaiah?

SPEAKER_05: 59:39

Yeah, bring up, yeah, but I I yeah, I don't know what verse, but yeah, bring up Isaiah 2.

SPEAKER_07: 59:44

Uh do you want it in the Dewey Reams?

SPEAKER_05: 59:46

I can read bring do the RSVCE or something. It's just easier to Isaiah 2. Um I got. All right. So it shall come to pass in the latter days of the mountain of the house of the house of the Lord shall be established as the highest of the mountains and shall be raised above the hills, and all the nations shall flow to it. And many shall many people shall come and say, Come, let us go up to the mountain of the Lord, to the house of God of Jacob, that he may teach us his ways, that we may walk in his paths. For out of Zion shall go forth the law and the word of the Lord from Jerusalem. He shall judge between the nations and shall decide for many peoples, and they shall beat their swords into plowshares and their spears into pruning hooks. Nation shall not lift up sword against nation, neither shall they learn war anymore.

SPEAKER_07: 1:00:37

Um it sounds like it's describing like Christendom to me. Yeah. Yeah. Not that there wasn't war during you know the reign of Christendom, but uh but it's not like it's been the last couple hundred years.

SPEAKER_05: 1:00:52

But also think about this. Where does Christ return? He returns to the Mount of Olives. Like where he ascends at the ascension, he says, I will I will return the same way I I I went. And and he will come to the Jews and the nations, like the nations will be gathered when this happens. So like the the Jews have to be gathered into Jerusalem in order for Christ to return.

SPEAKER_07: 1:01:19

It has to happen. Well, I I think saying the nations will be gathered, I think that's more talking about how how the end will only come, right, when when the when the the gospel has been preached to all nations because the ten the ten tribes have been, like we said, dispersed throughout the nation. So you have to to for all Israel to be saved, both Israel and Judah, the gospel has to go the end of the year to all Gentile nations, yeah.

SPEAKER_05: 1:01:52

Because the because those tribes are dispersed amongst the nations, the gospel has to go out to all of them in order to bring all twelve in. Then the time of the Gentiles will be fulfilled. Now, when you take that into account, along with all the things we're seeing happening in the church, and that and that they coincide, right? That the church the church goes into this state of weakness at the same time the Jews are being gathered into Israel. Like, I I still don't get how you're not like nah this is the end. Like this is this is the end of the story, guys. I'm just telling you because we're told not to, and I I'm not we can't predict dates, we can't predict dates and times, but we can see the story and how it plays out, and that that this last dispersion was for so long that them being gathered back in is a really important thing. Now, also if if America really is the the new like the okay, so if you go to the apocalypse, it talks about the beast that was, is not, and will return, right? Now, that beast that was is really the babylonian empire that that returns in Rome. It's it's that's why you call it the Hor of Babylon. Like the Babylonian Empire, that that that spirit that's in the Babylonian Empire returns in Rome. So, like the last episode, we were saying America's the new Rome. It's really America's the new Babylon. Because the church is Rome, right? Like the where Netanyahu saying we won't lose the next the next war with Rome, like and he's saying America is the new Rome. What we're really saying is America is the new Babylon, like the Babylonian Empire, that where where Nebuchadnezzar was the king of kings, and that's like we kind of adopt America is the new pagan realm. The new pagan Rome is is what is what that means, right? So this that's the beast that returns, but the antichrist will be seated at the throne of the of the of the pagan Rome, the return of pagan Rome, which means he'll be seated at the head of the American Empire, and that's like right now the Jews. Well, right, but right now it's the Jews controlling the American Empire behind the scenes. But I think all of this hostility that's brewing up right now, like did do I put the Roseanne clip in the in the um in the show notes. Can you play it from there? Play what she says, man, because it's actually this is this is what I'm talking about. Listen to I don't know if you could play it from the show notes. I might not oh it's a tweet. You should be able to. If you guys didn't catch this clip, it's in there, right?

SPEAKER_07: 1:04:37

Yeah, I just I wasn't prepared to share anything else.

SPEAKER_05: 1:04:39

I'm sorry, yeah, yeah, yeah. I I I should have I should have given you a heads up. Um if you if you listen to what Roseanne says here, watch.

SPEAKER_00: 1:04:48

I don't know that if America's turning on Israel, then America deserves what's gonna happen to him for it.

SPEAKER_01: 1:04:53

It'll be worse for America than Israel.

SPEAKER_00: 1:04:55

It will because Israel will just move on to India and other countries, and America will fall.

SPEAKER_07: 1:05:02

Not just that, the sleeper sounds America will fall, and that's what they want.

SPEAKER_00: 1:05:06

I mean, that is what they want is that the Constitutional Republic of the United States for America will fall. But I think Trump sees that we have to be America has to be independent of the British Empire too. And I think that's Israel's uh independence too, that we're all we're all separated from that, and that's the octopus, and we're all separated from that.

SPEAKER_05: 1:05:35

Do you see do you see what they like the British Empire?

SPEAKER_07: 1:05:38

Is it 1770 again, Roseanne?

SPEAKER_05: 1:05:42

But but what she's really saying is if America turns on Israel, Israel, like if you if they back Israel into a corner, Israel is just going to come, Israel's just gonna come out and go, look, you guys can say whatever you want. We run the show here. Like this is our this is our show, and they're going to seat their now. The thing is, if you have a figure at the at the top of the American Empire, like you think about Trump making Jerusalem the the uh capital of Israel. Well, it was the um the embassy. He moved the embassy, he moved the embassy to Jerusalem and called and called calls Jerusalem the capital over there. It's like you don't think he would do something like to look what's going on with Trump is really strange, man. You look at what the Epstein files and stuff like that. Like, I've never seen a more pro-Zionist administration in my lifetime where this guy is it it they I don't know what they have on like if you guys are still on the Trump train, I don't know what you guys are thinking because this guy is out of his mind, but you don't think he would be the one to go and start building that third temple? Like you really don't think that's a possibility. Yeah, you don't think you don't think Trump would, I mean, I you just think about this guy, man. Like, I don't I don't know, man. I'm not saying Trump's the antichrist, but like I don't I wouldn't put that past him, start building that third temple over there. Like, this is the kind of stuff that um this is why I'm saying because I've had like uh I've like made look, Trump is the reason we lost the sacraments for three and a half months during COVID, right? Yeah, like Trump's the one who shut everything down. Like I saw that as like a prefigurement of the of losing the mass for three and a half years. It's like Trump is the one that did that. And when I when I kind of alluded to that, Anthony Stein was like, can't be the the anti-card's gonna be from the tribe of Dan, and it's like, dude, first off, do you really know what Trump's ancestry is? Like, how do you know he's not from the tribe of Dan? Like, we were just talking about how the 10 northern tribes are dispersed amongst the Gentiles. How do you know that Trump's not from the tribe of Dan? Where is the tribe of Dan? Like, honestly, how do we know what his and I'm not I'm just saying the the reason I'm saying it is because you can't be so arrogant and thinking you well, the father said this, this, and this. Like, we will not understand things until they pass, and you need to be able to see through the deception and go, look, I don't know what's happening here, God, but like please don't let me fall for it. Like, and especially with the amount of with the way technology is unfolding right now, and they're talking about monitoring everything, even in your Gmail. They're having AI is gonna start monitoring your Gmail and Palantir, and you see you see, um what's his name from Palantir? Uh uh the guy that got that that got JD Vance elected. You guys know in the chat what's his name.

SPEAKER_07: 1:08:51

I don't think teal is in Palantir, is he? I think so.

SPEAKER_05: 1:08:54

Peter Teal's behind Palantir. Yeah, I thought there was another him him giving these talks on the antichrist, this gay, gay, freaking whatever he is. Like he he's a gay guy pretending he's a Christian, giving a series of talks on the antichrist. Yeah, it's just all of this stuff is just bizarre. That's all I'm saying. And the thing with the the the trads really struck with me with like our pride in thinking, well, we have the sacrament. Like, don't be like that southern kingdom that thinks because we have this, we have that. We're the and the other thing is I was thinking about do you remember when John Henry Weston and uh Liz Yore were pushing for the Trump administration to investigate the U.S. bishops for their collusion into the immigration thing and say the the the the they were pushing for the U.S. government to investigate the church. Listen to me, you start pushing for things like that, then the Trump administration goes, oh, we found some stuff, and that is their key to start persecuting Catholics. It's like you're you're giving the freaking antichrist the tools to then persecute the church. Like, I don't know what is happening right now. That's all I'm saying. Like, I I've backed out of criticizing um criticizing uh uh Leo. I've backed out of like I just I don't I don't know what's going on, man. I don't know, but I'm not going to add fuel to the fire of the American government investigating the church, and I'm not gonna add to that chorus because I don't know what's happening, and I I don't know. I know I know that I'm not going against Peter, man. Like I I look Francis was uh was a in uh in a unique situation, but I just don't I look I I don't I I think our hierarchy today is much like the hierarchy was in the time of Christ. I think that these men are very worldly. I think that they're I think they're playing footsie with the devil with this no shirtate stuff and this.

SPEAKER_07: 1:10:58

They're very similar to the the Sadducees, right? In that they're largely like probably agnostic and atheistic. They do have the priestly authority, but they don't really believe in it. But that means there is another side, right? The sad there was another side to the Sanhedrin. You had the Sadducees and you had the Pharisees. And if you if your liberal Catholics and your bishops are the Sadducees, then who are the Pharisees in that scenario? You know what I mean?

SPEAKER_05: 1:11:29

Like well, also think about think about um there were some Pharisees who were good, like Joseph of Arimathea and um right? So like Joseph of Arimathea and who does Christ? Nicodemus. Nicodemus, right? So you you kind of see that as like the Athanasius Schneider, and the like you just you you'll see the you'll see there will be some of them who are going to be good, but like there's just like our our hierarchy is going to be a lot like the hierarchy of Christ's time. And Christ says they sit on the seat of Moses, do as they say, not as they do, don't follow their example. But they sit in the seat of Moses, like, and that's Christ saying that to the the hierarchy of his of his time who are plotting to kill him. So I'm like my whole stance on like all of this church politics stuff. It's why we it's like, well, I've we've I've the the past couple months I've been just like delving away from it. Like, I don't know, man. I see I see what the Trads are doing, and I see I see John Henry Weston going back there, they're picking apart every little thing Leo does. It's like I don't know what is happening right now, man. I don't know. I just know we still have the mass, we still have the sacraments, and I'm doing everything I can to keep my family Catholic. Like, I've been driving home and my son listening to some of these talks with him. Um, me and my wife were up in the den the other night, and my wife goes, Anthony, Nikki's talking to his friends about God. Like my son was downside, down, down in the basement evangelizing his friends. And I said something to him on the way to work the other. I was like, Nick, I mean mommy heard you talking to your friends about God. And uh he was like, Dad, you don't understand how difficult it is because I'm starting from scratch with these guys. Like, it's not like you're trying to get a Protestant to become Catholic. Like, these guys don't believe in anything. Like, he's starting from scratch with these guys. He's like, I'm he's like, I'm in the philosophy level where I'm trying to get them to think about the meaning of life. Like, if like he's he's basically going the Nietzsche ride, he's like, Well, if there's no God, then there's no meaning to anything. Don't you guys understand? Like, it's either it's either everything has meaning or nothing does, you know. So he's I'm I'm really proud of my son.

SPEAKER_07: 1:13:42

He's like, they're saying, uh, you've gotten a lot more argumentative since the media called you a disturbed father.

SPEAKER_05: 1:13:52

That was an interesting one, right? New York Post highlighting my tweet.

SPEAKER_07: 1:13:57

Uh, I was sitting at work and I'm like, oh no, New York Post says Anthony in it.

SPEAKER_05: 1:14:05

I was kind of mad they got it wrong though. I thought that was I thought that was funny.

SPEAKER_07: 1:14:09

Well, it's ironic is uh when uh when that tweet blew up, right? Uh Jason from the podcast Once Called Text Catharda. Or I should say the once podcast called Text Catharda.

SPEAKER_05: 1:14:23

Don't Nicole's listening, don't say this.

SPEAKER_07: 1:14:26

Don't say this.

SPEAKER_05: 1:14:27

She's gonna point you, don't say this.

SPEAKER_07: 1:14:30

Uh, I forgot what I was gonna say. It was nothing. Don't worry about it, Nicole.

SPEAKER_05: 1:14:35

Jason just said I need to be careful of what I tweet because but it's like I really well.

SPEAKER_07: 1:14:41

You said something to the effect like it's just a tweet, no one's gonna see it, you know. Even a few million people did see the tweet, but but then the new York Post picks it up.

SPEAKER_05: 1:14:53

No, but Nicole actually, because I showed Nicole that and she was like, I don't like this. Why are the why are they saying this about you?

SPEAKER_06: 1:14:59

I'm like, oh goodness, just oh boy, I don't like that.

SPEAKER_05: 1:15:04

Um, yeah, so all this stuff has like huge, huge implications, and I'm wondering why nobody else is really talking. Like, I like it's you'll see Catholics go down the the the the Fatima stuff, and then I saw a life site put out a thing analyzing the Our Lady of Ast Las Aless prophecies, but the nobody else is really talking about it from a typological perspective where and all of them are boomers, so they're all afraid to touch the Israel question.

SPEAKER_07: 1:15:34

They're they're boomer converts, yeah. Right, so they're falling into the same tropes that they that that Protestants fall into with the um just with all the weird stuff, you know what I mean?

SPEAKER_05: 1:15:49

Yeah, but the point is you don't look, yes, there are tons of of apparitions that attest to the things we're saying, but you don't have to go apparition chasing for this stuff, is the point. Like, you really don't need to go apparition chasing, you just need to understand how God has worked through salvation history and the importance of like the whole story is about the Jews. So, this idea of what where the church's position is on the Jews now, where it's just like, oh no, they're just like any other religion, you know, we like we shouldn't be suspicious of them at all. Like they have never lost their suspicion of us, and they see that we let our guard down, and they are taking such advantage of the fact that the church has let her guard down because the church was the only thing stopping them from doing this up until World War II. Like, you guys have to understand how how important this is. The church never let the like their position was always you need to you need to treat the Jews with love and respect. They can exist, they cannot take any positions of power, they cannot well, they cannot have their they cannot do, they can't lend money at at interest. Like there were things that that Jews could not do because the church understood if they allowed the water.

SPEAKER_07: 1:17:08

The Jews could lend money at interest, that's why they did it. But um I I I mean, yeah, you're right. Obviously, it's got way worse since World War II. But I I think the Protestant Revolution really it almost seems like that was Satan's plan to be able to give more freedom to the Jews, right? Because because uh for instance, the talking about the English Reformation. The English the with the English Reformation suddenly you had you had Jews in a in a very powerful positions there, right? And and suddenly the the British monarchy is tied in with the Jewish banking clans, and that's where families like the Rothschilds and you know stuff come from. And that and the the Zionism really started, you know, besides in Eastern Europe, it really got political power in in Protestant England.

SPEAKER_05: 1:18:02

Right. So so while I'm listening to the the Scott Hahn talk, right? I'm listening to Han say this is a 700-year mystery that God is allowing to unfold with the with the northern tribe, the northern tribes getting dispersed, right? It takes 700 years this mystery to unfold where the the Jews in Christ's time are like the word of God has failed, but no, God is doing this mysterious thing, allowing them to be dispersed amongst the nations. And then I'm thinking, I go to church on Sunday, and my priest reads this letter from a priest during the time of the English Reformation. Then Tom Holland does a four-part series on the English Reformation, and we had Ryan Brook do the thing on the English Reformation, and I'm like, God does things like that to me, He'll just like confirm things in three, and I'm like, What is the what is going on here? Why why is this being thrown in my place? What just a weird out of nowhere thing where the English Reformation is being talked about, you know? And it's like this remember on the show. I said when I was listening to this, I'm saying to myself, why didn't God give Henry an heir? Why didn't he give Mary Tudor an heir? Like all of that could have been avoided, but it's because this mystery has been unfolding since the Reformation. All of the the if the Reformation doesn't happen, you don't have the collapse of Christendom, you don't have the ability for the Jews to come back into Israel. Like it's all this mysterious plan that God it looked Christendom was such an amazing thing that it took 500 years to finally destroy it. Like we're living in the remnants of Christendom, and they're still we're still living in Christian waters, like because it was that well established, the foundation was so strong that even the non-Christians in this post-Christian world, people still have a Christian perception of morality.

SPEAKER_07: 1:19:59

The only reason the Jews can say that the Holocaust is wrong is because of Christian morality, because of Christian morality, the only reason atheism can morality would say would say wiping out a people is entirely okay.

SPEAKER_05: 1:20:10

Yes, that that so that's like when you that's you think to even this the whole progression of our show where we talked about like the conversion of the pagan world at first, and we go back and you think about the Roman Empire, and we talked about Caesar coming in bragging about killing a million Gauls, like the it just seems like this whole thing, this whole journey you and I have been on has been kind of like a part of this thing. I don't know, it's hard, I don't know, man. It's just interesting to me that some idiot from New York who dropped out of high school is the one talking about this, and his friend from Minnesota who's an accountant, and nobody else is, yeah. And from this deep of a like, this is deep theological stuff we're talking about. This isn't like we're not just you know what I mean, like we're talking about something important, and the guys who I learned this stuff from are silent on it, and that's what's yeah, it's it's like it's like these guys have studied it for years.

SPEAKER_07: 1:21:08

I mean, Han, I mean, Han talked five hours straight, non-stop. Like, you could he, I don't know how long it took him to prepare for that, and yet you and I, because of our day jobs, all we could do was listen to it for five hours and try to kind of regurgitate it to you guys.

SPEAKER_05: 1:21:24

Try to regurgitate it and without notes, like that's the other thing. You guys gotta give me a little bit of uh slack because like I don't have notes prepared, like you're like we're coming in on the fly and trying to give you guys a two-hour extraordinary.

SPEAKER_07: 1:21:37

Like, we're literally we're we're listening to this stuff at work because we have no other time. Like, I can't be thinking on a podcast I'm listening to while I'm doing my day job.

SPEAKER_05: 1:21:45

Yeah, I'm I'm operating a back. Nicole said to me today, she's like, Are you able to do your job while you're listening? I'm like, Yeah, kind of. Well, the thing is the machine's really loud, and I have noise-canceling headphones, so it's like instead of wearing earplugs to make sure I don't go deaf, I'm wearing I'm listening to a podcast, but it is still like you're trying to have these insights while you're digging a hole with a backhoe, like it's not you know, so you guys gotta give us a little leeway on this, but this is something I've been thinking about for a long time, and I don't think I'm crazy either. Like, I don't think it's nuts the things we're saying. I I I really think that this is the way the story unfolds, and I like I said, I don't I don't know.

SPEAKER_07: 1:22:29

I think it's interesting. Um, we didn't really bring up this specific point yet, but the uh the kingdom of Israel prior to the split, you know, under David and and Solomon lasted for 80 years, 40 under David, 40 under Solomon. Um modern Israel was created in 1948, so the 80th anniversary is gonna be 2028, 2028, which is the next US presidential election, which is right before the 2029 100-year anniversary of our Lord's requesting in this. I don't think you do, I don't, I don't uh you you do see that we are heading towards the Battle of Armageddon. No, not not the battle of Armageddon.

SPEAKER_05: 1:23:21

Oh, I think it's the Battle of Armageddon that we are heading towards, man. Like, I just I see I see like 2028, 2029. What what is it? The Antichrist will reign for three years. Like, I think that's when I think that's when it starts, man. I think it starts in 2029. Now I don't know what happens after that. I know you're adamant that it's not, but I think uh I think you say that to balance me, but I think you see what I see.

SPEAKER_07: 1:23:46

Well, I see I'm coming to a different conclusion. I mean, there there's been a popped apocalyptic fervor how many times in the past? And they had good reasons for believing, and I'm not saying they had all the same reasons we have, but we also don't have all the same reasons they had. Right? I don't think we I don't we're not we haven't seen every sign and prophecy fulfilled. Um we see a lot, right? And uh but I I think it what we're going to end up is is just another type of the end. Right? I mean if you think about it like that would mean another dispersion of the Jews. It could. Why why why couldn't it? Why couldn't it? Um what what happened after the 80 the 80 years of of Israel the first time? It was split in half and half was dispersed. Right? It wasn't after 80 years they were. But that was the coming of Christ. No, no, it was 80 years they were dispersed, and then you had the southern kingdom for 700 years.

SPEAKER_05: 1:24:55

Oh, I see what you're saying.

SPEAKER_07: 1:24:56

Okay or no, well then you had then you the Babylonians came, but then they came back, and it was 17 uh 700 years from then to Christ.

SPEAKER_05: 1:25:08

Yeah, but all that was in preparation for Christ to come. Like, there's not another Christ coming, is all I'm saying. Like, I there is at the end, right? But that's what I mean. Like, there that's that's what I mean. Like the the point of gathering them in and this messianic fervor that's happening, and the way the conversation is happening, and the fact that the American Empire, man, that's what really freaks me out because I even saw Dave. Oh man, I hope I can find it. Um I don't know how much he tweets, but he said something about the American Empire the other day. Here, right here. We live under the biggest, most powerful government in human history. In fact, the US federal government is the biggest organization of human beings in the history of mankind. And his point was we're$38 trillion in debt because we can't possibly afford it, and people still blame the free market. Like he's a libertarian, he's coming at it from that. But I'm just looking at it like we are the most powerful empire in human existence. There's never been anything like it, and we are 38 trillion in debt, and that that debt is coming due, like the way we've been living that too. Like, think about us as Americans, man. Like when you when you listen to the desert fathers, the desert fathers talked about okay, but the end of America isn't the end of the world, we got to get past that. I I understand that. But it is the return of the and not just that, like if the antichrist took the helm at the at the head of this empire, it lines up with the dan Danielic prophecies too, about the ten horns and then the 11th horns, like there's 10 10 successor kingdoms to to Rome, and it there's like I I forgot which which father said that like the it represented a uh th like seven democracies or something which would line up with the West. It's just there's just a lot that goes into it, but the man, I was oh, I just lost my train of thought. Um yeah, I don't know. I don't I don't see how them coming back in doesn't lead to the end of the story. It's there's just when you take into account everything that's going on with the church, which that like there's nothing, there's never been anything like this in church history, never, and not not the Aryan crisis. No, there hasn't.

SPEAKER_07: 1:27:29

Not there's never anything, there's never anything that's like anything else ever. That's the whole point.

SPEAKER_05: 1:27:34

I know, but Rob, you think about the state of the church right now. So when you when you oh that's what I was gonna go. Um, if you listen to the Desert Fathers, they talk about like the end, like what it will be like in those end times, and they're like people like us wouldn't last a day in it because the temptations would be so great. Like when you think when you add in the like the level of technology we have and the amount of like just the amount of temptation we have, like maybe, yeah, but like you think about us as Americans, how wealthy and spoiled we are. Like, we we all think we're doing our best to live these Christian lives. Like, we think about how much feminism has routed us. My cousin Eddie said this to me yesterday. He's like, You you and I have like some of the most patriarchal homes I know, where you know it's not just that you work and your wife stays home. Like, my my wife looks up to me. My wife like really does follow my lead on everything, you know. We both live Eddie too, his wife follows his lead, she looks up to him. She it's like we live in very patriarchal homes, but the two of us are still so infested with feminism. Like it, you you can't imagine how distorted our worldviews are because we've been poisoned with all of these ideologies that are in our existence. You think about how much our attention is given to these screens, you think about how how much wealth we have and how bad we are with our money. Like, we spend money, you think about how many Amazon packages come to the house. Like, guy, but please have mercy on me. Because I you think about like when they talk about only a few will be saved. Like, I don't know how I start when I start to think about all of the luxuries I have in my life and all the excess and like the the inability of fasting and all like I'm just so bad as hard as I'm trying, man. It's like I I fall into despair if I think about it too much. Like, I just have to prove like just beg God's mercy when I think about the life I live.

SPEAKER_07: 1:29:40

All all I would say is apocalyptic further fervor never ends well. It just doesn't. You know what I mean? Like I just think it's something we've got to be very careful about.

SPEAKER_05: 1:29:58

Yeah, I don't think it's good to obsess on it. either it's so but i well then why do we talk about it every show um because we're the only ones talking about it and i think it uh actually is important and i think people do need to hear it like i think i think i think that i think that we have a role to play in talking about this stuff like i do i do think that we're supposed to be you know i don't i don't i i kind of have to talk about what we have to remain humble but guys we're gonna be part of the end i mean look it would be god's ultimate irony right no it wouldn't be the ultimate irony rob think about it the religious authority ultimate irony is that is that god himself came and and condescended demand and and died for us that's you know what i mean though but he chose fishermen he didn't choose the scribes and yeah he didn't choose a construction worker yeah he basically did though that's my point and i'm not claiming god's showing me anything i promise you guys like oh yeah god's not talking to me it's just it's just um we're gonna have to make locals 10 bucks a month before ant starts sharing revelations guys um well no but i do see um i do see like why paul gets so excited when he writes and it's because not that i've had these revelations myself but you can see the revelations coming to him in prayer just just putting writing them the pieces of the puzzle together yeah like like you have it's exciting for us to listen to imagine how exciting it was for him because he he says he he's you know when he meets uh well no that wasn't him right but when christ uh on the road to emmaus um oh so oh so he's gospel right i forget who he meets on the road to emails uh clopis and clopus and um clopus and who who is it clopis and but he he he reveals salvation history through the scriptures to them yeah that's what he's it's so nuts he so he's he's basically walking with them the whole time and he's doing typology with them and he's showing them how the Christ must suffer and by the end of the journey their hearts are on fire burning with fire and he's revealed to them in the they break bread together he's revealed to them and he disappears from their sight but for Paul Paul is meditating on these things and he's having these revelations in prayer where he's like oh my goodness you are going to fulfill this prophecy of bringing the 12 tribes together and he's he gets to the point where in Ephesians he's like he's like the eye has not seen nor ear heard what God has in store for those who love him like he's bugging out because he just wants you to have a heart of revelation like he has because the things that God is revealing to him in that time and the things haven't been fulfilled yet right so Paul is seeing how the kingdom is going to take shape and he hasn't seen it happen yet. So Paul sees that Christ is the new temple and he sees the things that Paul is seeing before they're fulfilled and then we get to go back and read Paul in our time and you're like oh my gosh all this stuff actually happened it's like it's it's just it's it's actually easier for us to believe than it was for for the people in Christ's time if you think about it because we have the church like the the success of the church to look back on and go man this is a testament to what God did. Like the conversion of the Gentiles and the conversion of the pagans is a because the most convincing thing to me was my own inclination towards sin and my own aversion to wanting to conform to living a Christian life is inherent in all of us right and only God's grace can soften a heart to to do something like that. It's only God's grace and until you've experienced God's grace you look at you talk to an atheist and their heart is just like I'm not wanting to live like that. Get the hell out of you and that was the whole world right so the only explanation for these pagan savages who have orgies and war parties and all these things for them to then say all right I'll take one wife all right I'll I'll love my neighbor like only the spirit of God can explain that there's no other explanation for it it's the spirit of God subdues the earth in a way it's like his spirit just covers the face of the earth and it's it dude we in 300 years the whole Roman Empire is Christian 400 years you know the whole Roman Empire is Christian and everywhere we go every single culture we encounter submits to Christ yeah it's the most unbelievable thing in history like of course it is it's just we judge time by his coming but it's it's the reason I talk about it though and the reason I talk about this is because I do think really scary times are ahead of us and I think the the real reason I talk about this Rob is because I think scary times are coming in the church. And I think that you and I actually do have a a role in the people that listen to us to keep faith during these crazy times that are about to come. Like there's going to be some wild stuff that happens and I I've seen so many people lose their faith. I've seen it they go Eastern Orthodox they go become set of contests like you cannot lose your faith during this it's going to get really bad but you have to just trust God's promise that the gates of hell will not prevail even if they look like they have I don't I don't know man I just I can I can tell you that my life is completely different now than it was a decade ago or 15 years ago before my conversion you ask my wife my family that we it God has changed my life in ways that it can only be described as God like there's no other way to explain it to the point where like my family is a witness to the people that encounter us and they they see what we have and they want it. And that's the only God that can do something like that. I'm trying to just look at you guys' comments um everyone needs to do a meditation mental prayer a good resource for the catechism mental prayer not to pursue the locutions of St. Paul but that is how to increase in virtue um some people saying this is a really good show tonight. Oh Mikey oh yeah update on Mikey his his boiler's up and running no way yeah his boiler's up and running I have to go meet the kid tomorrow to give him the rest of the money the guy that did it and um then there's um six thousand left over for him to get because they take three percent I didn't realize go find every every single transaction they take three percent from so it wounds up coming to like twenty thousand one hundred or something like that or whatever it was so there's about six grand left over after paying for the boiler uh my parents are gonna chip in a thousand and he's able to get like fifteen hundred for the car that broke down so he's got almost he's got like eighty five hundred or nine grand or something to get a new car that's a good that's a good opinion yeah that like I we want him to get something that's not going to break down. So something he doesn't have to put money into right away yeah yeah and so I um what we're gonna start looking on um he's gonna look on like Facebook marketplace and Craigslist and we're gonna see what we could do. And uh once he gets the car that's when I'm gonna have him on like I want to I want everything to be settled and have all this stuff but he texted me earlier and he just he said Anthony I cannot tell you the weight that has been lifted off my shoulder thank you so much like this was not just me this was me and Rob and everybody that contributed to this whole thing and I cannot thank all of you enough man like this really did the stress this guy this kid was under man like it it I just my heart broke for him so I'm I'm really happy we were able to do this for him um yeah I mean in the in the last week I we saw 20 grand raised for that we I saw two other um campaigns for for mutuals on twitter that each raised like four or five six grand like yeah it's amazing what what we can all do yeah this but this is actually the body of Christ in action right because we're all worried about like where we can contribute our money to with the church and stuff but like we're still called to give alms we're still called to tithe and when you see something where somebody actually is in need and you can trust it like because that's the thing like a lot of times you get these things but when when it comes from somebody you know it's like okay I I I know enough people that know this person if if somebody else recommends it I'll contribute to I'll be honest almost any time one of those passes in front of me I I try to contribute to it because I always withhold from that second passing that second collection basket of church like I always do and it's like because I don't know where that CCHD stuff's going after watching all the Hitchborne stuff so I always with from that second collection and and if I can give to something else I try to but I'd like to I'd I would like for us to keep doing some deep dives into into scripture like um like maybe we'll do like the gospel of john or something or like because I really think that Catholics have a a lack of knowledge of the scripture like we have so many other things we have so many other things as Catholics we can jump into. But I do think understanding the biblical narrative and going back to the gospels like for us as Catholics it is so important to go back to those gospels. Like you should have every one of those parables memorized so that when you go to mass on Sunday and they start they start a gospel you're like oh I know that one and you should and you should know them by heart you know so maybe maybe we'll maybe we'll do like a a a couple of maybe we'll break down a couple of the parables do a show on like some of the parables or something go through the fathers I'll I'll try I'll try to look up some some commentary on the fathers on some of the parables or something because like the honestly this show um you don't know how many people are going to see it but I know a lot of Catholics I know we didn't do the greatest job telling the biblical narrative there's so many details we left out I did the best I could but we've also been talking about this stuff for the past couple of episodes too and especially the older brother theme um but even like I've been reading I've been going back through the old testament I just started Exodus I finished Genesis finally and I started Exodus and there's like so many things in Exodus that when you read it you pick up on things like whoa that's weird you know so maybe we'll do some of those um so Sunday oh yeah what are you doing for Advent that's what I was just gonna talk about because not this Sunday but the Sunday after Thanksgiving is the first Sunday of Aven right yeah yeah the first isn't it the first Sunday after Thanksgiving well I yeah it must be because I think this upcoming Sunday is the the novice or feast of Christ the king yeah this Sunday is the novice or feast of Christ the king so that means the Sunday after Thanksgiving is the first the first Sunday of the advent. Oh that's gonna yeah it's usually December 1st so the Sunday before I the last Sunday in November is November 30th and then December 1st the next day so yeah so you got about you got a little over a week to figure out what you're gonna go no I know I'm gonna read from Divine Intimacy for Advent. Oh that's a good one.

SPEAKER_07: 1:41:58

One because I have it and I don't need to figure out what book to order and order the book and hope it gets here in time.

SPEAKER_05: 1:42:04

But two I it is just plain good in general yeah divine intimacy is like a treasure of the church um yeah another one like is uh the imitation of Christ like that's another one everybody should go back to yeah the imitation of Christ is one my my wife my wife always loves that one the problem with something like that is they're not like the imitation they're not good for advent readings i'm just I'm just saying they're not split up each like I'd have to go through and figure out what I whereas divine image is intimacy is set up daily so perfect yeah all right I think we could uh we could close this one out I mean wasn't you don't want to talk about the uh the murder confession during the I do have one interesting point on that one we should play that actually let's play quick let's finish with something I don't it's not really funny but kind of is though isn't it well let's play like if you guys haven't seen this yet is really really crazy what happened to this couple so this this guy was going to propose to his his fiance oh he's going to propose to his girlfriend he brings her to a where is it the a cathedral uh he said the basilica in St.

SPEAKER_04: 1:43:13

Louis so I don't know if there's a cathedral in a basilica or if it's the same church I don't know but so all right let's play the video and this is this is my my uh my so they're they're they're they're Catholic I mean I think he's wearing a miraculous medal in the next video but so this is so he he hired a videographer in a photographer to record the hold on I can't give me a second okay here we go I'm sorry I'm a murderer I'm a murderer need help oh my god Bradley I killed people plenty of people I do not want to kill anyone else Bradley come on I killed a lot of people oh my god please forgive me come on cous he's got a rosary in his hand bradley look at me we just can't move to a side please forgive me please god please forgive me for my sins I am sorry for hurting other people I do not want to hurt another human being as long as I live I have a guy confesses to murder on their please help me on their video where he's proposing so they give an explanation yeah it I when I first saw that I thought it was a skid or or fake but the heck is my mouse there we go but the next video makes me think it might be real actually and uh I'll give you my thoughts hi guys this is the story time to when our proposal got interrupted by a man confessing a murder I'm sorry I'm a murderer and I'm a murderer if you haven't seen that video go watch it now it'll be linked somewhere up here first of all I just want to start off by saying that it is not AI and it's a hundred percent real um if it looks airbrushed it's because it is it is done by a professional uh company yeah forevermore photo and film in St.

SPEAKER_02: 1:45:18

Louis why is it cropped like that yeah okay so because it's vertical I decided I was going to do it at the Basilica and we were going to go to the Saturday visual mass at 5 p.m and I was going to do it after that and we were going to look around and look at the artwork and the mosaics and and then when we got around to the altar I was going to get down on one knee for O's. So we made our way around and I sat Inva down in a pew and told her everything that I wanted to say to her how she means to me and everything. And I saw out of the corner of my eye that there was a man talking to our photographer and I didn't recognize the man at all didn't know if he was with the photographer with the church or whatever but I decided that I was just going to continue with the proposal. So I bring Inva to the altar area where I want to propose and the man is still standing there and I yell at him to get out of the way and all he does is duck down in front of the video camera. And that was the same time that the Monsignor got on the intercom and said that the church is closed. But I just decided to go ahead and do the proposal thankfully our photographer just went around the guy.

SPEAKER_01: 1:46:29

That's the guy is he walking with the backpack on yeah um and then for everyone saying did you know him like we didn't know Bradley we don't know the woman calling him Bradley I think it might be we could be his cousin but we think it might be one of the security guards at the Basilica.

SPEAKER_02: 1:46:45

But um I was very upset because I had spent months I'm in a wheelchair and I'd spent months in physical therapy practicing getting down on one knee um I spent a lot of money on the photographer and on the video and all of it was just ruined by this crazy man.

SPEAKER_01: 1:47:04

Since I posted the video the his neighbor commented and said that he hasn't been home in three weeks which is when the proposal happened the guy's a crazy guy.

SPEAKER_05: 1:47:13

All right we can kill we can kill them um my my take on this your joke your joke my take this is my actual take it's not my joke my take is these two are a very bland boring couple that proposal was mid at best they'd have probably watched that video one or two times and never looked at it again but now they have one of the greatest stories in the world to tell oh I thought you were gonna go with uh the guy had a better confession than most novice boomers I thought that's what you were gonna go with this confession was better than anybody at the novice order who takes 20 minutes to give no that was actually TLM Ryan's joke TLM Ryan said I actually think this this is a good confession he's got he gave number kind and he listened through it less than 30 seconds perfect got another 30 seconds but no look so when when bad things happen to me now I actually have a very different perspective on them because in the moment you think it's the worst thing in the world but later on talk about it on the podcast it's not just the podcast though there that it's actually the only stories you tell in general like either something either has to be really good to tell or really bad to tell but if that would have just been like some mid mediocre proposal and whatever but like Keith Nestor was telling me when he left the creator conference last year his RV broke down and he ended up stranded in uh one of the Midwest states and he went through this whole ordeal and I go Keith you're complaining right now I go what story do you think you're going to tell at Thanksgiving this year it's like you're kind of right I go Keith you you now like this whole ordeal on Thanksgiving you're going to tell the whole family oh we went to this creator conference and the van broke down and I had to leave it there and I had to get home and all that like because judging from the multiple stories we've heard from the creator conference which is none clearly the van breaking down was way more exciting but that's the point right so when these like the one of my favorite stories to tell is when me and my wife went on a cruise and we they they changed the excursion one day because there was like an outbreak murdered and hit under a bed and bodies under a luckily it wasn't that you heard that though yes I did we oh my god we'll just well not right now let me tell this one so we go on a cruise and there was like an outbreak of malaria on one of the places the destinations we you know you like you go to a destination you get off for the day and then you come back on so they changed it we were supposed to go to like Nassau or something I don't go on cruises man well you you go to a you go to a place you have like a day trip and then you come back so they changed the destination for the day from your ethnicity it was a carnival cruise wasn't it I don't remember it might have been but it was before carnival was getting a bad rap um so they changed the destination and as we're getting off the ship I'm asking a few people around I'm like what is the return time like no it's the same schedule like it's it's you know it's four four p.m like it's the same schedule so we get off and we go to a beach and it's like three o'clock and I look around and there's nobody on the beach and I'm like oh what the heck is going on I'm like there's nobody on the beach she's like and all of a sudden I get a phone call from the cruise ship they're like uh Mr. Anthony uh we're leaving in five minutes where are you we're waiting yeah because they they keep track of every passenger that gets off and if you don't come back on so the cruise ship called me dude we're 45 minutes away from the cruise ship and they're ready to disembark in five minutes for the record I don't want to hear a single thing from the chat anymore about oh oh they're five minutes late and this hookup a cruise ship full of people for 45 minutes. Well listen to me so we get back and we're we first of there was no cabs left because like this place where we were like everybody left it was I had to beg a cab driver who was off duty to drive us back to the cruise ship he's like I'm off duty I'm I'm like I will give you a hundred dollars please bring me back to the cruise ship they the guy brings us back to the cruise ship we get out of the car we got our babies with us like what my kids are little like babies I'm running holding my kids running back dude the entire ship is lined up on the deck clapping for us as we're it was the most mortify my wife wanted to kill me and all I can say is as embarrassing as that moment was and everybody throughout the whole cruise was like oh you guys are the ones that almost we almost left behind it was like the most annoying thing in the moment but it's the story I tell 10 years later so when bad things happen to you guys just remember it's the it's the stories you tell embrace embrace the suck in the moment and you got a good you got a good uh a good a good story to tell when the family gets together and record it if possible and send it to us at avoidingbabylon.com so life lesson from Anthony enjoy enjoy the things that you think suck in the moment because they're the fun things that you talk about later and how many laughs I've had about that incident you can't imagine so all right let's wrap this up no one that knows you is surprised by it disturbed fat father almost gets left behind by cruise ship dude our our passports were on the ship everything like we would have been stranded in the Bahamas with no passports we would have to go to the embassy it would have been a night my money was on the ship like in the in the safe on the ship it would have been the worst would have been a good story to tell it would have been a better story would have been a better story to tell would have just been a better story to tell it would have been horrible if it happened wouldn't have ruined the rest of our trip but we'd be talking about it to this day. All right come on take us home Rob land this ship I am home