The Enemies of All Mankind - w/ E Michael Jones

What happens when a culture starts bending truth to fit its desires? We follow that question across surprising terrain—Freud’s hidden motives, Wagner’s spell over European imagination, Bauhaus boxes that flatten the human spirit, and the concrete politics of highways and housing projects that shattered parish life. Along the way, we challenge the idea that ideas are neutral. People make theories, and those people have desires, wounds, and wagers hidden in their work.

We dig into how music can catechize a nation, how architecture preaches a theology, and how postwar social engineering rebranded thick ethnic worlds into a thin “white” identity. The conversation pulls no punches on race as an ideology of management, not heritage, and on why religious belonging often explains American life better than color lines. From the “triple melting pot” to the claims of universal design, we map the choices that made cities brittle and suburbs bland—and why families paid the price.

Then we pivot to power, vice, and freedom. Sexual liberation sells itself as emancipation while functioning as a lever of control, especially in a world wired for instant indulgence. The counterweight is old and bracing: you are only as free as you are free from your vices. Finally, we climb to the keystone: Logos. John’s audacious claim—Logos is God—offers a language sturdy enough to speak across civilizations. If America moves into a fourth era as Protestant hegemony recedes and new blocs rise, the live question is simple and seismic: will appetite or Logos set the terms?

Hear the case, question the links, and decide which story you’re living. If this conversation stretches your thinking, share it with a friend, hit follow, and leave a review telling us what challenged you most.

Chapters

• 0:05 Truth Versus Desire
• 1:11 Introducing E. Michael Jones
• 2:46 Degenerate Moderns And Biography
• 5:07 From Freud To Hidden Agendas
• 6:58 Music’s Turn: Wagner To Schoenberg
• 10:18 Bauhaus And Machines For Living
• 13:47 Postwar Planning And The Projects
• 16:42 Social Engineering And Suburbs
• 19:09 Race, Religion, And American Identity
• 23:23 The Triple Melting Pot
• 26:18 Race Ideology Versus Catholic Universalism
• 30:02 Cycles Of The American Republic
• 33:24 Muslim Assimilation And Culture
• 36:39 Alliances, Power, And Narrative Control
• 40:23 The Jewish Revolutionary Spirit
• 43:15 Sexual Liberation As Control
• 46:24 Logos Rising And Greek Foundations
• 50:05 Talking Across Civilizations
• 53:10 Representation, Empire, And Decline

Transcript

SPEAKER_00: 0:05

You have two options in life, at least intellectual options. You can either conform your desires to the truth, or you can conform the truth to your desires. And it seems to me that just about every modern thinker that I came up with, now that the biographies were coming out, had chosen the latter course. They had decided to suppress the truth because it didn't conform to their desires. So Sigmund Freud would say, All men have a desire to sleep with their mothers and their sisters. All men, Sigmund. I found that hard to hard to swallow when I first heard it. And then suddenly the story of Freud's relationship with his sister came out, and suddenly this became somewhat more understandable.

SPEAKER_03: 1:03

You got me.

SPEAKER_04: 1:11

Dr. E. Michael Jones, we have we have wanted to do this interview for so long. Um, okay, so uh we have a lot to get to tonight because I I've never had a chance to speak with you, but I've been admiring your work for a very long time. So we're I would like to kind of start back at Degenerate Moderns, and because all of your books seem to flow into each other, where you start discussing the topic of the next book in the book you're writing at the moment, and and they all just seem to flow into one another. And Degenerate Moderns was the first book I read of yours, and it was um, you have these unbelievable Chestertonian quotes in that book. Um, one that stood out to me was um it they they were they they tried to sell us on. Well, I'm not gonna get the quote exactly right, but they tried to sell us on that religion is the opiate for the masses, but it turns out that opiates are the religion of the masses, and and you get and it's like you have these throughout your work, and I'm I'm I'm I your books are amazing. Um, and you you you always have a way of kind of bringing it, bringing it down to to a level like even what you just saw in that clip. So um what year was Degenerate Moderns? And that was that was the first one that you really you wrote books before that, but that was the first one that kind of popped off, right?

SPEAKER_01: 2:30

Yeah, it did. It got a lot of response from the conservative movement at that period of time. Uh so it was around uh, I think it was 92. Oh, that was a 92, and that me saying that that's a direct quote from uh Degenerate Moderns, what I said. That was a C Spa I C-SPAN, I uh was Washington, I think it was uh about uh around the time of everyone was talking about the universities, about the takeover of the universities by what we call political correctness. So, but it was also, I mean, I started off uh uh intellectually as a as a literary critic. I got a PhD in American literature from Temple University at a time when there was a big contestation. This was the beginning of the takeover of the universities. I had a front row seat to it. Uh and uh the the issue when I was in graduate school uh was Ezra Pound.

SPEAKER_04: 3:26

Uh oh, go ahead. I'm sorry.

SPEAKER_01: 3:28

I so it the question, so the he was uh the man well along with T.S. Eliot, who revised the English language at the beginning of the 20th century, uh Pound edited uh the wasteland for T. S. Eliot, and they developed a literary criticism that eventually became known as the New Criticism, which was basically close textual reading, uh forget about everything else. Uh well, I have nothing against uh close textual reading, but there's a certain point where it's not going to reveal what's going on. And if you a classic example was uh, as I mentioned, Sigmund Freud. You can do a close textual reading all you want, and the problem is he's not being honest with you. Uh all the people I mentioned in Degenerate Moderns had a kind of hidden agenda. Uh, and in order to find out the hidden agenda, you had to do the by read the biography, which is something nobody ever did when the new criticism was in charge. So it was a kind of truncated, uh not a bad idea, but a limited, truncated version of uh what you needed to understand literature.

SPEAKER_04: 4:34

That's the interesting thing about all of your books, is that you the the research that you're doing for these books is it's it's something that nobody else really does, where you're you're reading the work and then you're going back and studying the person that actually wrote the work to try to get to the motivations of the person writing the work. I watched your interview with Patrick Coffin yesterday, and you were even doing that, like like explaining so much of like the motivations behind the English, the English language and why why we kind of perceive everything the way we do. So, what book comes after degenerate moderns?

SPEAKER_01: 5:07

Dionysus Rising.

SPEAKER_04: 5:09

Okay, well, what was that one? I never even heard of that one.

SPEAKER_01: 5:12

Uh, it's basically the same thesis. And uh a friend, um Canadian friend said to me, she loved degenerate moderns, so she said, Why don't you do something about modern music? So I said, Okay, I'll write a chapter on it. Well, it turns out it was much more complicated than I than I thought, because I was going to go right to Arnold Schoenberg, he's the classic modern composer, and start with him. And I realized you can't start with him, you have to start with Richard Wagner. And uh so uh his his base his most famous work is for Claire to Nacht. It's a smeared version of Tristan and Azolda. That's what his brother-in-law said, and that's what it is. It's Tristan and Azolda, kind of uh made less comprehensible. And the beginning of the book is Wagner. Wagner is a a genius in every he's one of these great just monuments to what can I say? Beauty, genius. He's got everything. Uh, and he's he was a tremendous figure. And everybody in the 19th century, by the end of the 19th century, everybody had to take care, take account of Wagner, including people like J.R.R. Tolkien, who got the whole idea of the ring from Wagner and never admitted it. So really we can talk about that too. I just I just did a piece on Tolkien. Um there's a piece I wrote called Tolkien's Failed Quest. It's another story. We can go into that another This is the problem. We might have to make this a multi-part interview because it's fine with me, but I'm trying to stay on track here. And I'm trying to say, look, this is if you want to talk about Wagner, let's talk about Tristan und Zolde. It's about sexual liberation, and it swept all of Germany away. Schirmberg was swept away with it. He was in Vienna when everybody was going to Bayreuth, listening to Wagner, and he was in the Bohemian circles there. He's a Jew who converted to some evangelical Protestantism. And then everybody puts it into action. They watch Tristan, they decide sexual liberation is a great idea, and you act on it, and your life falls apart. So his life fell apart when his wife committed adultery because she listened too much to Tristan Azolde. And he took, he was a uh reverted, he was an angry man who reverted to Judaism. Okay, returned to the vomit of Judaism, uh, disavowed his baptism and vowed not just revenge on his wife, but revenge on the West and on the music it created. And so that's what you have to know to understand Schoenberg.

SPEAKER_04: 7:53

Okay, so that so now you start uh exploring music, and then where do you go from there? Because I'm like all of these books leading do you go to the uh the slaughter of cities after that?

SPEAKER_01: 8:02

Or is that no uh Living Machines? I went to architecture, modern architecture, Bauhaus architecture. I looked into Gropius. Like, what is the meaning of those ugly Bauhaus buildings that everybody hated? Uh there were all over the world, they conquered the world. You had the same, uh, you had uh the same stupid building in Leningrad as you had in Nairobi. Okay, so in Leningrad, you got a flat roof when you get nine feet of snow. That doesn't work. You're gonna have a leaky roof. In Nairobi, I've been in Nairobi, I've been to the uh Jomo Kenyati University. You have uh again another Bauhaus building with huge plate glass windows. The sun comes through these windows, and you've got a solar oven. This is not appropriate for the equator, it's not appropriate for St. Petersburg, it's just an ideology. And as an ideology, I think I can uh deduce it from the facts of Gopius' life. That was the third book.

SPEAKER_04: 9:04

What year does Bauhaus actually start being uh used?

SPEAKER_01: 9:08

Well, the famous book is uh nine uh building is 1970s, the Fagus uh shoe factory. 1907. 1907 is a crucial year for modernity. It's the same year that Picasso did uh Les Dames d'Avignon. It's also the same year that uh Pius X wrote his uh encyclical on modernism. So it's a quick this is a turning point. It's a turning point, uh, and uh that's the first building. And Gropius founded a school of design, uh Bauhaus, and eventually he was run out of town by Hitler. Uh and so Bauhaus split up. Uh he went to uh Harvard, and his assistant went to uh Moscow, and between the two of them, between the East and the West, Bauhaus took over the entire world, especially after after World War II.

SPEAKER_04: 10:01

Yeah, that's what that's what I was going to ask you because something happens to architecture after World War II, where even the church itself stops building these beautiful cathedrals and and church architecture changes, and everything kind of just I don't know, everything just kind of flattens out and just gets you get start getting churches in the run. I don't know if that's a theological issue or whatever.

SPEAKER_01: 10:23

It is it is theological. You know what the uh the priest didn't realize is that there was a theology to Bauhaus that was antithetical to the Catholic faith. And so uh nobody understood this. No, nobody understood. They they they the big push came with Vatican II where we had nothing to fear uh mod about from the modern world, and so we uh indulged in this experiment of the Bauhaus church and didn't realize there's a message here, and the message is contradicting the gospel you're supposed to be preaching. What was his term for those buildings? He called them von Machine, and I called the title on book is Living Machines or Machines for Living In. Man is a machine. This is the Enlightenment, it's a reduction of man to uh, as a as I said, a machine. Uh and uh it didn't work, didn't work. So we had to, you know, in in Philadelphia, the modernists took over the city, city planning uh around 1950, something like that. They were all back from World War II. They all felt as if they had conquered the world, and they start building buildings for the sharecroppers. Black sharecroppers are coming up from North Carolina, and it doesn't work. It's not working. Same thing with um the Robert Taylor homes in Chicago, all across uh the northern cities of the United States, the cities start building these uh high high-rise warehouses for Negroes from the South. They're called the projects. Bill Cosby grew up in one of them, and and it didn't work. It did, it didn't work. Uh there was a kind of materialism there that kind of snuffed out the spirituality, the Protestant, you know, kind of emotional spirituality they brought up from the South. They started acting like machines, they started acting like sex machines, as James Brown would say. Uh, and the whole thing fell apart. Their families fell apart. And what would you, well, the legacy is the gang violence that still exists in Chicago.

SPEAKER_04: 12:24

Yeah, I there's this uh 10-part series on PBS about New York, where it starts in the 1600s with the the Dutch settling in New York, and it just takes you through all the way up to 9-11. So it was a documentary they put up put out right after 9-11. But when you get into that period after World War II and you have Robert Moses reconstructing all the roadways in New York, and he's basically breaking up these beautiful, like uh Italian little ghettos that you had of like this beautiful Italian culture, this Irish culture, and they come in with eminent domain, they put these like hideous highway systems through, they move all the black people up to these projects in the in the bad areas of the city. They're they're elevated off the ground, so they have no connection to the to the reality, you know, where they live. So they start treating the area like crap and all this, but it's such a a wild thing to watch, and then you start getting people moving out to the suburbs.

SPEAKER_01: 13:20

That happens at the same time. So you're the the common denominator here is called social engineering, and there were basically two forms of social engineering after World War II. What we're talking about, I cover in my book, The Slaughter of Cities, which is basically urban planning, urban renewal. And I said it was ethnic cleansing, uh primarily ethnic cleansing of the Catholic, uh Catholic ethnic neighborhoods. Uh and the main instrument of the ethnic cleansing was the black people that came up from the South. You just put them in there, any immigrant group is, and they were an immigrant group. They these people in Chicago talked about Mississippi the way my parents talked about Ireland or Germany. Okay, and they came up there, and the immediate result when you move into this kind of deracinated immigrant society is gangs, gangs formed. And the gangs became then the lump and proletariat engaging in random violence that's going to drive the Catholics out of their neighborhood. So it's bauhouse for the Negroes in the city, uh Levittown for the people in the suburbs. So when you're when you're in Chicago, you're Polish or you're Irish or Italian, when you get to the suburbs, you're white. And that was the whole point because this social engineering was race-based. The Kruger year was 54. Brown versus school board, where uh they strike down segregation in the South. The same year they do Berman versus Parker, which is the urban renewal decision, which basically says the city has the right of eminent domain, and they can take whatever they want, and you have no recourse. It was named after a guy, probably a Jew by the name of Berman, who had a clothing store in Washington. There was nothing wrong with his building. He said, I want to be here. If you want to rejoin, rebuild the neighborhood, I want to be here. I want to sell them clothes. No, you're not part of the plan, and they tore his building down. So this is the twin, the twin evils of social engineering were urban renewal, ethnic cleansing, and the other one was sexual liberation as a form of political control. And I was I was a guinea pig in this experiment. I was in my mother's womb when the Kinsey Report came out. I was born four months after the Kinsey Report. This is the bad sign that I was born under.

SPEAKER_04: 15:49

I I grew up in Levitown, by the way. In Long Island? Yeah, Long Island. Good.

SPEAKER_01: 15:55

That's the first you were the first pioneer for Levitown.

SPEAKER_04: 15:59

Um, so uh well okay, so let's let's touch on race a little bit because I know I've seen you and Nick Fuentes go back and forth about the race thing. Um because once they break up those Catholic communities and you do get the suburbs, doesn't a white culture actually form though? Like like because you you do you did see there would be like Italian culture, there would be Irish culture, there would be you know German culture, and when especially in the city, they would kind of stay grouped together and they would stay amongst their own. But once they do move out to the suburbs, there like doesn't a new culture kind of get developed at that point?

SPEAKER_01: 16:35

Yes, you're right. It's called American. So I am biracial, okay? I am not white, I'm biracial, I'm Irish and German. This is inevitable. Okay, when you bring these people over here, it's inevitable that they're going to get together and they're you're gonna see intermarriage. The the thing that explains this in terms of American ethnicity is something called the triple melting pot, which says after three generations, every immigrant group becomes uh one of three groups Protestant, Catholic, Jew. Now, this was uh developed in the 1940s. There were basically no Muslims here at that point, but it could be expanded to include Muslims in places like Dearborn, because I think they're they're the rising group. So I I would claim that uh after I'm third generation. By third generation, they say that's when your religion becomes your ethnicity. My grandfather was born in Ireland. He was just he came over here, he was an Irishman from the day he got here until the day he died. My father was second generation, he didn't know who he was, he couldn't decide whether he was Irish or American. By the time I came around, it was clear that I and my generation, we were all Americans, but we were a particular kind of American, we were Catholic Americans, as opposed to Protestant Americans, as opposed to Jewish Americans. That's interesting.

SPEAKER_04: 18:01

So I I I work construction. I am I my my father's Italian, my mom's Irish, right? Now I work with all these Italian guys, and they would speak Italian around me and they would they would laugh at me and they go, yo, you stupid American boy, because you don't understand Italian, you know, like my father understood it, but by the time you get to me, I don't understand it. Now, my kids, my wife's German, I'm Italian. My kids have they're they're just Catholic at this point. That's right.

SPEAKER_01: 18:27

That's what it comes down to. My mother, I I saw I'm learning German. My grandfather, my German grandfather's living with me. So I came home after my first week of learning German in high school. I said, say something in in German. And he said, Schwamm Letschte, which I couldn't understand. That's that's the dialect. Okay, I had to learn that on my own. My mother was 100% German, she didn't speak any German. Because the dialect that my grandfather spoke didn't make any sense. It was so peculiar that it didn't work. You couldn't learn, you couldn't learn German by learning that.

SPEAKER_04: 19:01

Yeah, yeah. The guys I work with, if they they were Sicilians, so if they went to Italy, it's a totally different, you know, especially because they they came here in the in the in the you know, early, late 19 uh mid to early 1900s. So um, so what is the disagreement that you always have with Nick? Because I I I see you, I see you guys going back and forth a lot. I never actually got which Nick are you talking about?

SPEAKER_01: 19:22

Uh there are there are multiple Nicks out there, there are multiple Nick Fuentes.

SPEAKER_04: 19:27

Because I would imagine you guys would agree on a lot when it comes to the the the issue of the Jews, but right. I always see you guys kind of butting heads on the race issue, and I've never seen what the disagreements are.

SPEAKER_01: 19:37

Yeah, so sometimes Nick Fuentes, so when he's online, he's white. Okay, when the cops show up at his house to because of some complaint, he walks out and says, I'm a Mexican.

SPEAKER_03: 19:50

Yeah.

SPEAKER_01: 19:50

And then he also says he's Catholic. So he's got this multiple personality disorder. I have multiple personality disorder because I'm Irish and German, but the American Kind of brought it together. So I'm saying I so it happened when he brought on uh Jared Taylor. Jared Taylor is a white guy, he's a race guy. His job is to uh uh basically turn Jews into white people so they can become invisible. That's always what the American Renaissance was doing, and now Nick starts spouting this racial line, and I'm trying to explain to him that this is not compatible with Catholicism. Race is not an ethnic group, it's an ideology, it's a category of the mind that got imposed for political purposes on the proletariat, on the working class in Virginia at the beginning of the 17th century. The slaves there were, they were Celtic slaves and there were African slaves. And they got together for Bacon's rebellion and they nearly overthrew the rule of the plantation owner class. And they decided they're not gonna let that happen. So they instituted terms like white and black to divide the working class, giving whites privilege. There is always a value judgment placed on white and black. There's no value judgment placed on Italian or Irish or German. That is what it is. But when you come to white and black, either it's white supremacy over black people or it's black supremacy over white people, and it always leads to conflict, and it's incompatible with the Catholic faith. It's not incompatible with Protestantism because these they all had state churches. And so if you were an English Protestant, which is basically what Samuel Huntington said was our identity as Americans, an Anglo-Protestant, you came from an island where everybody looked the same. That was a state church.

SPEAKER_03: 21:41

Yeah.

SPEAKER_01: 21:42

That's different than the Catholic Church, which is universal and has uh, you know, branches all over the world.

SPEAKER_04: 21:48

Yeah, if you if you're worshiping at the same altar, that's it's infinitely more important than what you look like. It's like the when the Spanish come to uh Mexico and South America, they kind of form this mestizo culture because they're at the same altar. So there's really no no no distinction between Gentile or Jew or Great, you know, it's like that kind of happens. But but if we're in our modern uh in modern America, yeah, yeah, because I do see an issue with just just breaking down between black and white, because uh white Protestant is very different than white Catholic. But I do I do think there's some some big cultural differences, especially now that we do have this mass immigration issue with people are coming pouring into the floodgates, and you're you're now in you know, on in what would have typically been a white suburban area uh in America is now kind of mixing up with all these other ethnicities. Now, as a Catholic, like should we want like what should we want our kids to like I don't know, like is it isn't there something to this like that we should be concerned with with preserving what American culture, white American culture has has I'm not sure what white American culture is, uh uh, but I I think I know what Protestant American culture is, yeah.

SPEAKER_01: 23:12

And I'm not I'm not uh what look whether we think we should preserve it or not, it's going to pass away because uh I'm I've been talking about the the three republics. Okay, the first republic in America began in 1781 with the Constitution, ended in 1861 with the Civil War. Second Republic begins. Some things do not pass into the next republic. Slavery did not pass into the Second Republic, it the Civil War ended slavery. Second Republic, 1865 to 1945, that that ends with World War II, the victory in World War II. Everything is an 80-year cycle here. And so 1945, you have certain things. The Holocaust narrative is the foundational myth or story of the Third Republic. Americans are great people, they save Jews from the Nazis and so on and so forth. That justifies uh social engineering, blah, blah, blah. We are now at the end of the Third Republic, 19, 2025, 80 years. And now I'm saying one of the things that's not going to pass into the Fourth Republic is conservatism. Okay, Judeo-Christian morality. Nobody believes a Judeo-Christian morality anymore because of the Jews' response to the overturning of Roe versus Wade when they said abortion's a fundamental Jewish value. Protestantism is not going to pass into the fourth republic. The churches are evaporating now. One of the rising things rising now is the Muslim population. Places like Dearborn, they had big disturbances in Dearborn, which were orchestrated uh to for effect. I'm saying we have to understand this movement of history and uh what is going to stay behind and what's going to move forward.

SPEAKER_04: 25:00

Yeah, we've been we've been talking a lot about like you can sense we're coming to the end of a story right now, right? So you you have you had the um you have you had the American Revolution is that first period, the Civil War is that second period, and the and World War II, the Holocaust narrative comes out of that third period. Now the two the two previous still do hold some kind of a foundational role in America, but we but what comes next? Like, are are we looking at another event to have uh like a an um a myth to base this next 80-year period on?

SPEAKER_01: 25:40

You want me to nominate a myth? No, no, no.

SPEAKER_04: 25:43

I'm I'm worried they're going to create one, right?

SPEAKER_01: 25:45

Like that's they're trying to create one right now. The fundament the fundamentalization that's going on right now is the government and the Jewish foundations, like the Shillman Foundation, are promoting Islamophobia right now to distract everyone from the Jews' genocide in Gaza. That is the whole point of this. The Jews are losing control of the narrative, they're upset, they're getting hysterical, everything is anti-Semitic, they're going crazy, they want to ban everybody. Uh, and I'm saying that uh the so at this point, the the group that kind of was the dominant group that held everything together, namely the Protestants, they're disappearing. You got a new group rising, the Muslims. We have no idea how the Muslims are going to assimilate because they've never done it before. So I'm I'm I gave a talk uh uh at a mosque in in uh Dallas, and I'm sitting in the lobby on that side, it's not it's an Islamic center. On this side, the right side is the mosque. You go into the mosque, on the left side is a basketball court, and there's a kid in a wearing a jalabi, you know, the long uh harab shirt that they wear, doing jump shots. Well, this is a form of assimilation. So I'd like to say to my Muslim uh friends, who's going to determine what type of American you are? Is it going to be the NBA? You're going to have those Muslim kids wearing gold chains? You're going to idolize Sean Kemp? Do you remember Sean Kemp? He's a local boy. Came from uh, he played uh the NBA, came from Elkhart, Indiana, which is right next here, next door here. He won the uh championship of illegitimate children, fathering illegitimate children, fathered 19 illegitimate children when he was in the NBA. Is that the role model you're gonna have?

SPEAKER_04: 27:38

Uh it's probably gonna be hip hop and like because I think Muslims are going to assimilate more towards black culture, and that's the that's kind of what I'm getting at least.

SPEAKER_01: 27:46

Exactly, you're exactly right. That is exactly right, because they're not white, okay? And so I have a my my white my oldest son lives in Dearborn, and they pick up the next generation, picks up everything bad about America, yeah, which is like fast cars, okay. Fast cars doing 100 miles an hour in Dearborn the wrong way down a one-way street. This is this is now Yemeni culture in in uh in uh Dearborn. And the guy who did that he just died, you know, killed himself and uh three other uh Muslims, probably Yemenis, by hitting a tree at 100 miles an hour.

SPEAKER_04: 28:27

Yeah, I I work with a Muslim guy who I have some really good conversations with. Um, and the most the one thing we can always bond on is how the Jews are behind everything. So we live in New York, and he's like, he's like, I he's like, Well, my Muslim friends are all excited about Mam Dani. They don't know the Jews own him. He's you got a sewage mayor. We don't have a Muslim mayor, you know, because he's he's telling me, he's like, look, you you, you know, I he's he's from uh Turkey, he's Turkish, and he's like, uh, you know, you know, you think you have a um a Muslim government there, but in reality, they're taking money from from Israel too, and they're kind of like, and you saw that with uh with us with Assyria when they take out Assad and they put their own guy in now. Because when it comes down to it, a lot of a lot of people, even in Muslim nations, are blackmailable and people want money or they're bribable and things like that. So it does seem like there's this I don't know. It it is funny that that's the one thing we can we can we can do.

SPEAKER_01: 29:28

I think it's true. I said we should have an alliance, a Catholic Muslim alliance, because we have a common enemy. Is that bad?

SPEAKER_04: 29:35

Is it bad to say that? I I mean it's the one thing we we really do seem to bond on at work.

SPEAKER_01: 29:41

So it's you better believe it. And I'm saying, you know, there the Muslims are shocked when I say that, but I mean, you know, I think that the Mamba Mund Mamdami election was a watershed in American life. This is a man who campaigned as a Muslim. All the Jews, the ADL was calling out all their troops to make sure he didn't get elected. He beat them. Yeah, he beat them in New York City. Can you imagine that? Beating the Jews in New York City? And he did it. So I'm saying this is the beginning, a harbinger of this new era, a harbinger of the Fourth Republic, the emergence of a Muslim uh American identity. So in his acceptance piece, the first thing he talked about, man, he mentions was Eugene Debs, the socialist. So here he is. This this man really did something very significant. I mean, if you were talking about the logical progression from the Biden administration to the next Democratic administration, this guy should have had a bone through his nose and purple hair and a beard and a dress, because that's what politics was. It was all gender politics at the Democratic Party. And he single-handedly turned it around, turned the Democratic Party back to its roots as the representative of the working man. That was a stroke of genius on Mamdani's part. And God bless him for doing it.

SPEAKER_04: 31:05

Yeah. Um, okay, so okay, so now you the oh go ahead, Rob.

SPEAKER_02: 31:09

I was gonna say, did do you think it's possible to actually like make an alliance with with a group that has a doctrine like Takia, where they where you know it it allows them to lie, you know, morally in their eyes?

SPEAKER_01: 31:24

Did Mamdami get elected or not? This is proof that it's possible. This is proof that it's possible.

SPEAKER_04: 31:32

Yeah, it's it's a rough one, man. I don't know because like like part of me thinks like a lot of the hostility between Catholics and Muslims is caused by the Jews, but at the same time, you gotta think back to the Crusades, and and we kind of are mortal enemies with one another, too.

SPEAKER_01: 31:48

Well, look, I I just did an article, so it's the immediate thing, which is Dearborn, I covered that, and the the feds who are trying to foment violence there. But the deep grammar here of this is Tolkien, the Lord of the Rings. Do you remember the Lord? Have you read The Lord of the Rings? The culmination, the grand battle is Minus Tirith. Yep. Minus Tirith is Vienna, 1683. Orcs are Turks. These are these people from the East. It's kind of like the orc is a combination of the Turk in 1683 and the Soviet army in 1945. They're bad people coming from the east, and they're going to take take us over. Okay. Okay, I loved, I love that idea. I love the story of Vienna and Jan Zobieski and the cavalry sweeping down from the Vienna woods and saving Vienna. Uh, it's a great story. When I did a book tour in Poland for Libido Dominandi, the Polish edition, and every every speech I gave all over Poland, I said, the West has failed. And everybody gets a little down. And I said, but that's not the end of the story. The end of the story came when Jan Zobieski saved Vienna, and all the Poles would jump up and cheer. They like that story. Okay, but it's not 1683 anymore. And do you know why the Polish cavalry is not going to save us anymore? Because the because the you're right. I mean, so let's say the modern day equivalent, some type of dramatic external change. The main reason is the Turks, the orcs are inside the city now. Yeah. The cavalry charge only works because there was some brave Austrian who stood there with a pike when the Perks blew a hole in the wall and basically prevented those types, prevented the orcs from coming into the city. He stood in the breach, and and that allowed the Polish cavalry to extur to solve that problem from the outside. That's over now. Why is it over? Why is Ireland in such a bad situation now? My friend Gemma is like Denethor. She's saying the West has failed. She's ready to throw herself on the funeral pyre. Because the Irish stopped having children. The Germans stopped having children. The Italians stopped having children. And not only did they stop having children, they killed a lot of their own children. And so I said to Gemma, for every Irish baby that you people aborted, God sent a Muslim and an African to take their place because nature abhors a vacuum. So put down your Molotov cocktail, Gemma, and start thinking along spiritual lines.

SPEAKER_04: 34:36

Well, that's kind of what I want to get into here because yes, the the orcs are inside the gates at this point, right? Now you're absolutely right. You're absolutely right. Now, what what you just said is actually kind of how I see it. I see it as we because they didn't fight their way in, we welcomed them in.

SPEAKER_01: 34:55

Now, how now nature abhorse a vaccine? They the I they killed their own children. Do you think God didn't notice when that happened?

SPEAKER_04: 35:04

Not just that, but don't don't you see instead like because you're talking about an alliance, but don't you kind of see this as like the Assyrians coming in to destroy the temple at this point? Like, do you do you not see like God's judgment coming upon us?

SPEAKER_01: 35:17

I think I tell them God Islam is the scourge of God. That's always what it'd been. Whenever the Christians would lose or fight each other, the Turks would move up the Danube. Okay, they're inside the wall now. Yeah. What are we gonna do? And I'm saying, I in this, I see what Hegel would call the cunning of reason. Okay, who did this to us? It was basically the Jews, the Hebrew Immigrant Aid Society. Alejandro Majorcus used to be the head of it. He let the board open the border, anybody, millions of people crossed the border because that was his plan. The Jews want to wreck the dominant culture of the United States and every European country. Yeah, that's not the end of the story. What's the cunning of reason? God brings about his plan by allowing the wicked to do evil and then turning it into good. So what's the story here? Let's take England, for example. The degenerate culture in England now, 48% of all pregnancies get uh end an abortion in England. You got these sluts with their tattoos, you got the soccer hooligans, they're all following Tommy Robinson, uh, who wants to blow up the uh the buses with the immigrants on them. Those people are more conservative when it comes to sexual morality than the natives are. And that's the cunning of reason, and that's the basis for what we are doing now in England. We're working with the Muslims. My good friend Sean Norton, the Irishman living in London, is having a lot of success talking to the Muslims, supporting Dr. Rehiani Ali, who was banned, kicked out of the medical uh national health service because she defended Palestinians in an op-ed piece. That's wrong. And I'm saying we have a commonality here, not just a common enemy, but a commonality in our understanding of the moral law. If we can make this clear, I think we have the possibility to turn the evil, which is this weaponized migration, it's an evil, I'm not gonna deny that, turn it into a good in an unexpected way.

SPEAKER_04: 37:36

Yeah, that's an interesting uh okay. So, okay, so let's get let's get back to some of your work again. Um, so what makes you start writing the Jewish revolutionary spirit?

SPEAKER_01: 37:50

The war in Iraq.

SPEAKER_04: 37:53

So it was what I was doing.

SPEAKER_01: 37:55

2003, 2003, uh the Jews, they're called neoconservatives at this point. They take over our foreign policy and they uh uh engage American American treasure and lives in a project that only is supposed it benefits Israel. It's supposed to benefit Israel, had no benefit whatsoever for the United States of America. At that point, the scales fell from my eyes, and I realized we got a Jewish problem. They have just taken over our foreign policy. There's no way to get around it.

SPEAKER_04: 38:26

And now you must have been like a lone voice crying. You better believe it.

SPEAKER_01: 38:31

You better believe it. You better believe how lonely it was back then.

SPEAKER_04: 38:36

I can't imagine.

SPEAKER_01: 38:37

I was excommunicated from the conservative movement because I I uh went to the Sam Francis Memorial at the National Press Club, and I said uh gave him the thesis of the Jewish revolutionary spirit, and the people ran screaming from the room. Taki was there. It was like the the paleocon aristocracy, Taki's there. We're all gonna be, we're all gonna be arrested. Stop, stop, you know, and that was that was the moment. The moment was I was ahead of my time. Yeah, I was ahead of that. That was 2008. Now it's not lonely anymore. There are plenty of I'll I'll I'll I'll make a statement. If you're if you want have any credibility with the the the younger generation, the 20-year-olds, you have to address the Jewish question. And the man who did it was Nick Fuentes. That's why he's got this following.

SPEAKER_04: 39:33

Well, it's not just that, it but like I I think what you were doing back then, because I remember you being ostracized, but you weren't just ostracized from conservative politics, it was the church, the like the the the mainstream church, like you were persona non grata. You're right, and you you were not allowed, like they they they shunned you, you know. And I remember seeing you kind of reappear during the no fat movement. Like, I I remember you being involved, so like talking about. These were secular guys who decided to like stop looking at pornography for the month of November. And I remember you popping up in those conversations back then.

SPEAKER_01: 40:09

Right. Right. You're absolutely right. So I was ahead of my time with another book that was called Libido Dominandi, Sexual Liberation and Political Control. I wrote that book came out in 2003. I was so ahead of my time that the most significant thing to ratify that thesis happened one year after the book came out. And that was when the Israeli troops went into Ramallah. They took over the TV stations and they started broadcasting pornography over the TV stations. That was proof that sexual liberation was a form of political control. Or else you have to say that the Israelis want to bring freedom to the Palestinians because pornography is freedom if you're an American. So that was and it's so I had to convince people and they say, nah, that you're crazy, it's crazy. And then suddenly there came a time when an entire generation is addicted to pornography because of their cell phones.

SPEAKER_03: 41:04

Yeah.

SPEAKER_01: 41:04

And they know they are a slave to their passions. And when I say uh sexual iseration is a form of control, they understand immediately what I'm talking about. When I say that a man has as many masters as he has vices, which is what St. Augustine said, they know immediately, and sometimes they stop watching pornography like that, just because of that. Just because the the scales fall from out. Yeah, it's a form of control. I understand why I'm so miserable now. I'm not going to do this anymore.

SPEAKER_04: 41:33

Yeah, I mean, Augustine says it, right? Like you're only as free as you are free from your vices. I mean, it's that's right. It's like if if if if something has a grip on you like that, it's it's it is absolutely a form of control. So yeah, and I so I remember seeing you popping up in those in those conversations, and then I came across Logos Rising. Now, Logos Rising, the opening chapters, you you kind of broke this this um, I don't know, just my my my whole thinking about evolution and just how ridiculous some of the stuff they say about evolution is when you're even when you're breaking down how an eye forms you're like they're saying it's a cell that can receive light, but that's not sight. Like, like how can nature choose a gene that doesn't exist if you're talking about you know survival of the fitness?

SPEAKER_01: 42:23

It's like that's exactly right. How can have that selection process for something that doesn't exist? That's impossible, and that comes down it comes down to it's biased in Logos Rising. Parmenides said that which is cannot come from that which is not. That is absolutely true, yeah.

SPEAKER_04: 42:41

Yeah, and you and you go through I I gave three copies of that book away because I I was just the way you went through just explaining all of like human civilization, how it comes about, and then when you get to the Greeks, you you explain how the uh like the Greek philosophers are all they're they're wrestling with this idea of logos because they know there's some kind of like rationality to the universe, and then Paul goes and tries to preach at the Areop uh Area, what is it, the Areopagus? Or yes, the Areopagus. Yeah, he goes to preach there, and then and he talks about the unknown god, and they kind of laugh him out of there, but like, but that Saint John like really took that and and he and he he understood the Greek mind in a in an amazing way, and he was able to bring that bring that home with the in the beginning was the logo.

SPEAKER_01: 43:32

He understood that the world was changing, okay. That when as soon as St. Paul said that dream about that Greek kid saying, Come over here, the world was going to change, and you couldn't just limit it to these Hebrews. Uh, and then so as a result, you can't hand them the gospel of Saint Matthew, which is this long Hebrew genealogy with names they never heard before. And so I say I speculate that St. John wrote his gospel in light of St. Paul's failure at the Areopagus, and an understanding now we've got to have a new approach to this new group of people, and this approach is going to be in Greek. We're going to write this gospel in Greek, and we're going to begin with the most fundamental Greek term, which is logos, rationality. That's seven pages of English equivalents in the little El Hart uh uh Scott Liddell uh Greek English dictionary. Okay, and he begins by saying, in the beginning, there was the word. See, the problem is he can't use English.

SPEAKER_03: 44:33

Yeah.

SPEAKER_01: 44:34

In the beginning, there was a word, imprincipio erod verbum, am Anfang Vadas Word. They're all the same, and none of them has the resonance that the word Logos had. So I had to change it, I had to resurrect the word Logos, bring it back, and say, in the beginning, there was Logos. In other words, there was an order to the universe that was inescapable. There was never chaos. There was always an order to the universe. And Logos was with God, and Logos is God. Now, that is one of the most profound statements in all of human history. Logos is God. And I tried to talk that way because I the I wrote Logos Rising based on my experience of going with Iran, to Iran. One of the great experiences of my life, thanks to my late friend Nader Talabzada, who was a genius who bring at bringing people together. So they brought brought me over there, and I'm thinking we now can talk to people in Iran. We can talk to people all over the world. We have the language, you have the technology. What are we going to talk about? You know, I'll buy three, how much they cost? Maybe something more sophisticated. Or let's put it this way: is there a basis for some type of universal consensus among all of mankind right now? And if there is, I'm saying the only thing that fills that requirement is the term logos. Because we are all rational creatures, and rationality is not uh optional.

SPEAKER_04: 46:09

Yeah.

SPEAKER_01: 46:10

We have to be rational.

SPEAKER_04: 46:12

You you think back to like uh when when 9-11 happens and we go into Iraq and we do all this stuff, and it's like George Bush is like, we're gonna bring democracy to these people. And you're like, what? You're gonna bring democracy to these people? Like, we could you imagine if we would have brought the gospel to these people? It would have been just such a but you how do you bring the gospel?

SPEAKER_01: 46:34

Let's talk. I want to talk to these people, and God bless them. The Iranians were great people. They I could talk to them. I was I was the first time I'm there, I'm one of like three million people were celebrating the revel 1979 revolution. I'm surrounded by women and charters. And they start saying, Alo Akbar, and I understand. They start saying something like, uh, I don't understand it. So I turned to my translator, I said, What are they saying? He said, Death to America.

SPEAKER_03: 47:04

Yeah.

SPEAKER_01: 47:05

They have are geniuses when it comes to uh separating the regime from the people. They understood that perfectly, and we could talk one person to another. That was the great thing about going to Iran.

SPEAKER_04: 47:21

Oh, so they didn't they didn't just see an American and think you're death like death to you. They would talk to you and they saw the American machine as something totally different.

SPEAKER_01: 47:31

Well, you know, that's a government. I I didn't, I didn't, I wasn't in favor of the war invading Iraq. We we are captives to a government that doesn't represent our interests. The fundamental issue throughout the world right now is representative democracy. We don't have it. Yeah, every system is basically you take money from the rich folk, but you have to pander to the people, you get the votes from the people, and as soon as you come into office, you do what the rich folk want.

SPEAKER_05: 48:00

Yeah.

SPEAKER_01: 48:02

I voted for Donald Trump, but that's what he did.

SPEAKER_04: 48:05

Yeah, okay. So look, we uh I I want I want to promote your new book here now, and then I want to talk the Jewish revolutionary spirit, and I want to talk the Holocaust narrative on uh behind the paywall. And we will release it on YouTube, but you guys gotta come and you gotta put because I don't know where we're gonna go with it. But uh what your new book that you just came out with is called Um Walking with a Bible and a Gun. What what what got you to even start this one?

SPEAKER_01: 48:32

Uh I had a guy write to me and said uh he he he he could trace his ancestors back to 1680 something, you know. So he said, then I became a Catholic. So now I know what it means to be a Catholic, but I don't know what it means to be an American anymore. And I had the sense, like after the identity politics of the Democratic Party, where you, in order to be an American, you had to be uh, you know, a homosexual or a Negro or part of feminist, something like that. These are all identity, identity politics, identity groups. Is there an overarching principle that unites us as Americans? And if so, what is it? That was basically the premise. And I'm I'm right with this is in mind as Trump uh arrives on the scene with a slogan called Make America Great Again. What does that mean? Is so he obviously invoked some type of American identity. He invoked America first, which I agree with uh in the first election. I uh he appeared in South Bend, Indiana, biggest crowd ever to assemble in South Bend, Indiana, and he was there, and he talked about uh carrier air conditioning, moving his plant to Mexico, and everybody there, the working class there, and they jumped up and cheered. So, what does it mean? So, this is why I wrote the book. In other words, also uh I read a book by a uh a Frenchman by the name of Immanuel Tot. The book is called La Defaite de l'Occident. Uh hasn't been translated in English yet, but uh he said basically the American Empire is disappearing, is going to fall, because the hidden grammar of the American Empire is Protestantism, and Protestantism is evaporating. Yeah. And I said, that's true. He he understands what he's doing. This is a long line of Frenchmen like De Tolcville, people like that who come over and try and interpret try to understand what America is. But then he he chose in to say, well, what's Protestantism? And he goes down the rat rabbit hole known as Max Weber, which is a waste of time. And I said, if you want to understand the mind of English-speaking people, you have to understand poetry and literature. And if you want to understand the mind of America, the American founders, all the way up to the present, you have to read a certain poem. And that poem is called Paradise Lost by John Milton. And if you want to understand that poem, you have to read the beginning of it, where Satan wakes up in hell and he gives a speech that is one of the greatest speeches in American literature, you know, and it ends the speech by saying, better to reign in hell than to serve in heaven. Well, you know, your American heart starts beating faster when you hear that, you know. That's that's who we are. We're all Satanist.

SPEAKER_03: 51:22

Yeah.

SPEAKER_01: 51:22

The Halo grammar of America is Satanism.

SPEAKER_04: 51:26

Yeah, that's a that's a that's a it sounds like a harsh thing you're saying, but the whole founding of our country is built on revolution, right? So, like if you if you understand what um what a culture actually is, it has to do with like the altar you worship at, but also taking on the patrimony that was given to you from your forefathers and stuff like that. And our country is founded on this revolt from their forefathers. So revolution is kind of like baked into the the story of who we are, and then you have you and you know what? I I feel like people should go watch your interview with Patrick Coffin because you do a really good job of getting into the book and just and discussing Protestantism and just how this there because they don't have confession, they're just this this constant like uh uh debasement that they go through, and then they have to have a revival. And it was a really, really well done interview. So if you guys want like a a full a full expiation on this, but I really think I mean this is the next book I'm buying of yours that I'm going to read. I can't wait to get into it, but um, yeah, so you guys can get that on fidelitypress.org.

SPEAKER_01: 52:31

Right. Have to go to fidelitypress.org. I've been banned from from Amazon, fidelitypress.org. The the link should be in the description.

SPEAKER_04: 52:39

So um, you were pretty much like one of the first to get banned. Like there was there was a few years there where I like we couldn't even I was afraid to even have you on the YouTube show, so I was afraid to ask you to come on. And uh and and this interview, I I kind of had to do a little bit of the backstory with you because I've been watching you for so long and I've never heard anybody really go through everything. And we missed a whole bunch of books, also, but I definitely the one thing you really changed the way I see everything is on the Jewish question, and it made me start thinking deeper about this stuff, and then I started thinking about it theologically, and it's been a topic we've been discussing a lot on the show. So I'd I'd like to do that on the other side. So if you guys aren't members, come over to locals. We will release clips of it on the main channel. We don't want to kill this interview. This interview is amazing, but I think I think it's gonna be worth coming over there to see the rest of it. Uh, is there anything else you want to uh uh uh promote before we leave here, Dr. Jones?

SPEAKER_01: 53:36

No, that's it. The Walking with the Bible a gun is the most recent book.

SPEAKER_04: 53:40

Okay, guys, go check that out. FidelityPress.org. Uh, I promise you, if you've never read a Dr. E. Michael Jones book, there's it's nothing like them. They're they're just filled with things you wouldn't. Uh I I I'm one of your uh your your biggest fans, so I will never not promote you. And then and maybe we'll discuss the our difference uh different approach on the liturgy, also. I want there's a couple of things I want to talk about over there. So all right, take us out. Yeah, he's just gonna kill the feeds to everything. Yeah, uh the liturgy one, you uh it I because I know you're you're like we really I've I've grown to love the traditional liturgy, right? And um I know uh