What a Woman Is - w/ Tim Gordon and Mike Pantile

A cold open with tech chaos turned into one of our most honest conversations about how a fringe thesis became a full‑scale cultural confrontation. We chart the path from announcing The Case for Patriarchy in 2019, to fiery debates that shocked polite company, to a 90‑minute documentary that platforms loved visually but refused to touch because the ideas cut against the grain.

We dig into where the argument lands: authority in the home and church, why “mutual submission” scrambles roles, and how that confusion seeps into liturgy, music, and parish life. Ephesians 5 isn’t a relic; it’s a blueprint. We talk about the early Church disciplining male lust, why Christian marriage is uniquely monogamous and indissoluble, and why the modern crisis now centers on courage—men saying no when it matters, and women choosing holiness aligned with a husband’s headship or a consecrated vocation. The goal isn’t online chest‑thumping; it’s ordered love, clear duty, and beauty that elevates the soul.

We also take a hard look at the red‑pill economy. Yes, it names real wounds, but too often it slides into cynicism, limited hangouts, and content that monetizes vice. We offer a different path for Zoomers and millennials drowning in black‑pill threads: build strength, cultivate virtue, join real brotherhoods, and pursue a hopeful, realistic approach to marriage. Not every past mistake is disqualifying; lead well and many women will follow. At the parish level, fix the music, preach the hard texts, and stop outsourcing leadership to committees that smother clarity.

If you’ve felt the cultural shift around feminism and patriarchy but wanted substance, story, and stakes, this film is our best case—shot beautifully, paced to hold your attention, and blunt where it needs to be. Watch the premiere for $1.99 at 10 a.m. CST on candaceowens.com, then tell us what we got right, what we missed, and where you want us to take this next. If the conversation moves you, subscribe, share the episode, and leave a review so more people can find it.

Chapters

• 0:00 Tech Fails And A Cold Open
• 0:19 The Book That Sparked A Movement
• 2:36 Debates, Backlash, And Vindication
• 3:41 Conceiving The Film And Finding A Home
• 6:58 CMask Origins And Conversions
• 9:12 Feminism’s Drift Into The Church
• 12:21 White Knights, Simps, And Cultural Flip
• 15:40 Aesthetic Quality And The Catholic Arts
• 18:24 Pricing, Premiere, And Promo Strategy
• 21:02 Why Big Platforms Passed
• 23:35 Zoomers, Black Pills, And Hope
• 26:02 Marriage, Christianity, And Telos
• 29:10 Standards, Mercy, And Choosing A Wife
• 31:45 Teaching Men To Lead
• 34:18 Parish Culture And Saying No
• 37:02 Ephesians 5 And Liturgical Decline
• 40:08 What Counts As Real Marriage
• 42:26 Red Pill, Limited Hangouts, And Repentance

Transcript

SPEAKER_00: 0:02

All right, Rob's having major technical difficulties. I don't even have an intro video. I don't have an intro song or anything. Um, Rob is supposed to join us. He cannot get his his his um computer to work, his mic to work, nothing. So yeah, we're just jumping right into this one tonight. Um, Tim, this has been a labor of love for you for many, many years. I've I've watched you and I have been talking behind the scenes for months. I got a chance to watch the documentary like six months ago. But this started with you writing the case for patriarchy. Like this that's where the the idea of it birthed. And I'm and I was just like thinking back on how much your your show and your book has even affected my thinking on this issue, watching your episodes of Sea Mask with you guys, and it's it's been such a profound impact on the cultural conversation. Like so many of the guys we see today, Andrew Wilson and the whatever podcast, the guys that go on the whatever podcast, Chase, um, like Sovereign Bra, like all of those guys read your book and they bring what they learned in that book to their arguments for things like that. Like, how's it hasn't feel kind of just finally seeing this thing, your baby, finally get out put out into the open?

SPEAKER_03: 1:18

Uh vindicating it, it's it's crazy because I announced the writing of case for patriarchy in 2019 on that Mad Frad show in August, and then I debated Trent in September of 2019. It was like boom, boom, and there was references to the fact that I'm starting to write this book, and they're like, What do you mean, what do you mean? I mean, that was where the culture was. You'll remember.

SPEAKER_00: 1:41

Wait a minute. That I'm sorry to cut you off, man. Like your debate with Trent on feminism was before the book. Yeah, you just started looking this stuff up. Is that how that went?

SPEAKER_03: 1:50

It's when I had a bunch of the resources collected, you know. And so yeah, that was that was that was one month after I announced it on Frad in when he was still in Georgia. And back then people responded to the fact that I was attacking like all feminism with like what now everyone just everyone just shits on it, everyone just immediately responds to, you know, okay, how much feminism am I allowed to infiltrate what I'm doing? And that that's a that's a tremendous vindication. But in the two years it took me to two and a half years to get that book out, there's a lot of drama that we don't have to revisit tonight, but a lot of drama that itself was a labor of love in Sophia Institute Press really had a lot of Hutzpah to eventually publish it. And then after we did that, I, you know, over two years ago, I conceived of the film. I was like, this is perfect to storyboard for a documentary, and I pitched it at um the Disney World RV park to uh the director, Nick Stumphauser. And I was like, this would be the greatest documentary ever. And what he brought to the and I storyboarded a storyboard, and then he he kind of took it, and I I think it's I think it's uh one of the most entertaining documentaries I've ever seen. So we'll we'll see if people agree. Um, but yeah, it's it's very vindicating to have it out. Thanks.

SPEAKER_00: 3:18

Yeah, a lot a lot of people don't know the behind the scenes stuff that you dealt with. Like, like this documentary after it was done, there were many places that Tim tried to get it to go. I mean, a lot of people looked at it, and they were there were just some people that you would have thought would have jumped on it were just too timid to do it because Tim does say some very controversial stuff in it. Women need to be thin for starters was one that everybody was kind of a little taken back by. When did you guys start C Mask? And Mike, how did you start coming across this stuff?

SPEAKER_02: 3:47

Dude, I was a C Mask fan, even when I was a Protestant, you know, a couple of years ago. I was watching it in 2022, 23 when it was uh Tim, uh Dr. Michael Robelard, Will Noland, and then you know Elliot Hulse, which Robellard and Elliot Hulse are now C Mask alumni. And then before again, I became Catholic. I mean, CMAS was such a big part of me becoming Catholic too. I was listening to Tim's stuff forever, you know, and again, it's not to glaze my homie over here. Um, I love him to death, but there's a Mount Ross of the episode, it's the glaze.

SPEAKER_00: 4:17

It is, it is.

SPEAKER_02: 4:18

I mean, I have to say though, if there's a Mount Rushmore of uh of like you know, patriarchy, you know, coming back to the forefront, you know, Tim Tim's there. And you know, this was a message in my ear way, way back when. And then I think uh Will connected me with Tim, and then there was a I was doing a lot more work on the red pill on my social media stuff, and so Tim was like, dude, come on, C Mask. And then we hit it off and uh Kindred Spirits, and like, dude, be a permanent part of the panel as a Protestant. And then it was three or four months later I became you know Catholic, I reverted back to the faith. Um, so that's how I ended up with a C Mask crew.

SPEAKER_00: 4:50

I mean, I I I like I became friends with Mike because of C Mask. Mike and I are hanging out this weekend. I'm going to Canada tonight or tomorrow. Like, I leave my house at 2 a.m. I'm flying to Canada, I'm going to Banff National Park. And Mike heard I was gonna be in Canada. He's like, I'm driving down, we're coming down, we'll come and hang out with you guys. So I'm gonna actually see Mike in person this week. And it all started because of this little project Tim started. Yeah, and uh but it even just the evolution of my oh, I don't I don't know about evolution, but like the the progression of my own thought on this issue, because I started thinking about how mutual submission, how disordered it is, and how because Tim, when you started talking about John Paul II's feminine genius and how that was kind of like the first fissures of feminism into the church, and how all of that actually led to altar girls. And now, what we're actually facing in the church right now is this issue of mutual submission with synodality, where where the clergy is listening to the lady instead of them being the head, like it's just this whole feminism crept in and it led to synodality. And if I I can't see the crisis as anything but that at this point, I hadn't even thought of that.

SPEAKER_03: 6:00

I I think you might have put that bug in my head last week or something, but I hadn't even thought about it until you said it. It's like the receptive part being more active than the um expressive part, the passive part being more active than the active part. What does that sound? I mean, not to be gross. Sorry, I know I know I know we keep things g rated, but that that's that's what that is when the when the clergy is listening to the congregation. It's the um, you know, we'll we'll keep it g, but when you you, you know, the the the male part of the plug and the the the plug in the wall it's to try to reverse that, uh it's essentially sodomy, right?

SPEAKER_00: 6:37

Yeah, yeah, yeah. Like it's because we were talking we did a show talking about Michael Matt last week because Michael Matt was defending Lila Rose because Lila Rose is out there telling men not to watch pornography. And I'm like, I I kind of went off on him. I'm like, no, Michael, like your generation is the generation that gave us this rot, and it's because all of you were white knighting and simping for these girls because you were all afraid to say no. That's really what it comes down to. You saw that with the Piers Morgan interview with Tim with uh Nick Puentes yesterday. Yeah, it it's it's just pervasive through that entire generation. All of them were afraid to say no to women when they were supposed to, and they they turn into these white knights and these simps. And I it really is a uh like the craziest thing that I we've witnessed over the last couple of years is how much the culture has flipped on this issue, and all everybody talks about is simps and all this crap. It's it's crazy how much we've seen happen in the past couple of years.

SPEAKER_02: 7:37

Yeah, I think that uh it's because of voices like ours shouting this into the ether. You know, I don't mean I don't mean to overinflate my sense of importance here. I'm I feel like uh I'm a nobody in a room full of somebody, it's not just in this podcast, Anthony. You're nobody, but here with Tim. Um but uh I think that's I mean, social media has moved the mark on this conversation in in a massive oh, Rob's with that is to join us.

SPEAKER_01: 8:00

Yeah, I got it all working. All right, let's go.

SPEAKER_02: 8:04

Yeah, I mean, social media shaped this conversation massively. I remember Tim, your interview with Matt Frad back in 2019 was one of the most hilarious things I've ever for you, you guys in the chat that haven't checked out that interview, please go and do that immediately.

SPEAKER_03: 8:17

It was so good. That always tells the story of I gotten like two and a half hours of sleep because we were at Disney World the day before, and we had to well, the night before we drove in at like 3 a.m. to Atlanta, and I wore some button-up shirt, and it just kept more buttons throughout the interview, just kept coming undone. So it looked like you know, Andrew Dice Clay. By the end, I'm like, hey, you know, uh, he can blindfold these people with dentals or giving them licenses.

SPEAKER_02: 8:49

Yeah, yeah, you were telling that story about that fat woman telling off her husband because she got the wrong soda pop from the pop disp with dispenser or whatever, and you could just see him, you know, Matt Matt's red pill on the stuff now, praise be to God. But at the time you could tell, like, it was just so uncomfortable in that room.

SPEAKER_03: 9:06

Oh, he was so fearful. Yeah, but I'm like, I because I mean, I just well what's something he said about me a couple months ago publicly is you know, I talk how I talk one-on-one with my homies on my podcast, or I guess on anybody else's podcast, too. So he's like, Yeah, that's something you know you say, but I'm like, I just say what I believe, you know, the same as if we're we're hanging out. And this this shit just happened to me. I mean, this happened to me 12 hours ago. We were leaving, we we stayed at Disney World as long as we could and left at 6 p.m. the night before and drove to Atlanta straight away. And it was happening on in the parking lot. Steph, Steph, I mean, you think I'm extreme. You should hear Steph when she hears some woman talk bad mouthing her husband. She's like, That whatever. She's like, You're you're you're not nearly cute enough to be this rude, and that's not really I don't know why that comment really made matter.

SPEAKER_00: 10:02

You will have these unattractive women being awful to their like fit husbands, and the guys just take it, and it's just one of those things when you see a woman being like awful to her husband, it's it's there's something that I get like this visceral anger in me when I watch an emasculated man being beaten down by his wife. It's just such a gross thing to witness.

SPEAKER_03: 10:23

Well, you got psyoped into the relationship in the first place, because if it's a fit or even half-fit guy with uh a fat woman, then you know there's some psyop happening no matter no matter how you slice it. And so, you know, whatever. I mean, that's not the whole thing. But so it started out, and that sounds kind of flippant, and that sounds as if there's not intellectual heft behind the whole movement, and and there was, and that that really was if we're doing in like etiology, that that was the beginning of this entire um chapter of my life. And I'm like, man, I wish I'd I wish I'd thrown some of the amazing papal quotes, Pius 10, 11, 12. Uh you had four popes really in a row, four good popes in a row, with Benedict 15 in there saying some stuff, but you had Leo 13, Pius 10, 11, 12 saying women don't deserve equal rights, women don't deserve the vote, women don't have the same rights as man. She must always remain under man's control. And then all of a sudden, poof, it just the the story that scripture was written only for its time evaporates. These are the greatest 20th century popes, and there's 20 centuries between Christ and Pius uh, you know, the 10th or 11th, but there's there's you know one century between them and us. That proves that it's a timeless principle, it's a done deal, it's a it's it's fake. You can't be Christian and feminist.

SPEAKER_00: 11:42

What's what's crazy is like the the early centuries of the church, the church actually had to work on men because men were like like the idea because we we we have this this idea that marriage predates Christianity, but not really, not the way we know it today. The idea of monogamous marriage between one man and one woman is very Christian, and that gets worked out in the first few centuries of the church where the church starts putting this calling on men, and they do it by reading Paul, where Paul's like, You you know, slave masters, you can't just go and rape your slaves, like there's a bodily sacrality to your slave because of the resurrection. Husbands, you have to actually remain faithful to one woman. Because if you look at non-Christian age, you look at Islam, Islam looks at us and they're like, One wife, are you out of your mind? What are you gonna have one woman? Because Christian marriage is very unique. So you have these first centuries of the church where the church is working on getting men's lust under control, and they do a really good job at it. And it kind of subdues the earth, it gives men time to join monasteries because now we have these consecrated virgins and things like that. But then over time, what has happened over the last four or five centuries is we made things so good for women that they were able to just get a little uppity and start and start getting a little out of pocket. So, really, the church should the church should now spend the next century focusing on getting women in line because men men are pretty good. Like if you really think about it, like men for the most, I mean, yeah, you're always gonna have the philanderers and you're always gonna have those guys, but for the most part, we all understand as a society that a guy who cheats on his wife is a POS, uh, a guy who you know steps out on his family, he's you know, he's not a good guy. But we've we're in a culture now where women who do this, like there's no amount of lives a woman will not destroy if it gets in the way of her happiness. That's where we're at now.

SPEAKER_03: 13:39

Yeah, no, I agree that I would never hang out with um or want to spend time with a guy who is a POS if he steps out on his wife. But here's something that the church needs to start teaching that binds all of these other propositions together. In theory, um, a woman cannot be a good Christian woman without being a good wife, because women were made for men, right? Men were made for God, though, right? Well, man is the glory of God, woman's the glory of man. So theoretically, I don't know if I've ever seen it happen, but theoretically, a man can be a good man and not a very good husband. Now, I don't I don't see it play out that much. All the good men I know are either priests or good husbands. But theoretically, the telos of life, the the you know, the mission is the husbands, and the wife is literally just his supporting character. The main character energy is the man. So we have to start saying that. That a wife literally, uh you know, if she's not um uh living a consecrated life, she like if you basically obeying her husband is how she gets to heaven and and she and and helping him with all his projects, and she has really no projects of her own. And for the for the most oh, I'm sorry, Tim, I don't mean to cut you off. I'll just say we'll know that feminism has truly died, it seems to have died, you know, a year or two ago, but no, it will truly be cognizable as dead in the water when we can say it that way, and everyone's like, Well, of course, of course. Again, a woman was made for man, not man for woman.

SPEAKER_00: 15:09

And you actually do see that play out in marriages, regardless, like a man will either lead his wife to heaven or lead his wife to hell. Because essentially, this comes down to what all the all the arguing comes down to, and what really upsets me when I see Catholic influencers and especially the Catholic Inc guys defending some of the stuff that they defend is what they're telling women is you don't have to be holy, because it it is it is an intricate part of a woman's holiness to be submissive to her husband, and a woman will not go to heaven unless she's unless she submits to her husband. We're talking about it's no different from the Protestant who refuses to submit to the church of Rome. If you do not submit to your husband, you are on the road to hell, and it's as simple as that. So, all of these guys who support someone like Lila, because Mike, you said this on Tim's show today when you were talking about the red pill, and you said, you know, because Tim mentioned like the red pill gets the right diagnosis, and you're like, Yes, they do, but I'm at a point now where there's so much like off in it that I'd rather not even touch it, you know, like I'd rather not touch it at this point because you know, a little bit of rottenness will spoil the whole bunch, essentially, right? So if you're looking at these these so-called Catholic women in the pro-life movement or anything, there's a little bit of poison in what they're saying, and they're teaching girls to be girl bosses, so it poisons the whole well at this point, which is why this stuff actually needs to be addressed. It is the it's it's this is what the Catholic Longhouse is is men who kind of want to get on Lila's podcast so they or they want to have a good relationship publicly with her, so they won't call out the insanity that that she spews.

SPEAKER_02: 16:51

Yeah, it's just hand holding, it's just a social media hand holding. They don't want to have the difficult conversations. It's it's but guys are looking at seeing through it, especially the Zoomers. Zoomers are so done with that garbage. And the few the future of social media with these guys coming on the scene, these women are gonna get altogether ignored. They're getting tired of getting finger waged, they're getting tired of being longhoused, they're getting tired of you know, them pretending that all of the world's problems uh are on men's shoulders. And hey, I'm the first one to say, and I'm sure you guys would all agree that men carry like the lion's share of the responsibility, but allowing us to perpetuate this, this, this fallen solipsism that women have that are innate to their their their nature and they're they're wanting to usurp authority, is not doing them any good. And so this like gentle way of delivering, there's a way you there's a way to deliver the message, but um being overly gentle and tickling ears is not the way that you correct course. I think there's almost got to be a bit of a of an overcorrection. Uh uh, and I think these women, 99% of them, and unless they're consecrated women or women like Mother Angelica or Mother Natalia, they should just be off social media altogether. I think they add, I don't think they do enough good to uh outdo a lot of the bad that they're doing. That it's just unjustifiable to me, and I'm tired of seeing it.

SPEAKER_00: 18:05

Um, yeah, Tim, I d I wanted to get you on especially because um I just know the sh I just know what this thing has been for you. Like the past the past six, you I think you sent it to me about six months ago when it was finally completed and you sent it to me. And I was and this was like right after you got all the rippricker footage put together. I was just blown away by it. Like if you guys, if you guys obviously tomorrow the it comes out tomorrow at 10 a.m. on Candace's network. I promise you, if you go and spend the money on it, you will not be disappointed. It is it's an hour and a half of just like you don't want to take your eyes off the screen. It's a phenomenally done documentary.

SPEAKER_03: 18:45

Yeah, thanks. And it's only a buck 99. You know, when I was talking to um Candace's CEO and husband George, they were they were playing with$3.99, and I'm like, look, you know, I have a vested interest, but let let's let's make it where people can't complain. Let's make it the best price for a 90-minute movie ever for a dollar ninety nine for a new 90-minute movie, and um, you know, it's under two bucks. So you know, it debuts tomorrow 10 a.m. CST on Canada. Yeah, yeah. Uh I think no, no, because that somehow Nashville is is CST, which is counterintuitive. It's so far east of other people in the CST. Yeah, it's it's 10 CST, I believe.

SPEAKER_00: 19:31

Let me double. You uh you you have to do like um you gotta go on a promo tour for this thing, then you I hope you called in favors with everybody because I want to make sure this thing gets out there.

SPEAKER_03: 19:42

I have, and like I mean, I you know, Tucker's seen parts of it because he was seriously considering it. He he switched basically producers um halfway through the film's production, and that kind of changed its outcome. We showed it at Daily Wire, we showed it on a million dollar screen at Daily Wire. Daily Wire and the the movie guys there in their um what's their movie um house called? Their their Pendragon, they were like, this is like one of the most beautiful films we've ever seen, just to look at.

SPEAKER_01: 20:12

Yeah.

SPEAKER_03: 20:12

And they were we were watching it with Michael Moles in studio, um, and then two of their execs in the movie thing, and they're like, How did you do this for under millions? Daily Wire has such a big budget. They're like, Wow, you did this for like a quarter of a million dollars. That's that's incredible. This looks like a multi-million dollar film, which it it really does to look at. And part, you know, a big source of my pride is just the the um the the the crappy QCing, the low QCing of output in the Catholic world and the Christian world in general. The the films and and fine arts in general are just, I'm not talking about the medieval ages. It ain't the medieval ages anymore. Where art our quality control is near the floor. So just to put together something that's beautiful and like dope and entertaining that's gonna capture all the the you know, I I have a lot of groupers in my audience that's gonna capture all the young men and and already has for the ones that have seen it. We've test screened with a lot, just like this is this is really cool, and you know, you're not gonna want to take your eyes off of it.

SPEAKER_00: 21:16

So, um yeah, because I'm thinking back to even the um the drama of the Cabrini movie, right? Like everybody wanted to everybody wanted to pretend that was such a good movie, and you were the first one that came out. You were like, This movie is trash, it sucks, it's a girl boss the whole way through. Do not and I remember watching that movie, and I was just disgusted watching it, and everybody around us was like, No, no, no, this movie's great, promoting. I'm like, I don't know, man.

SPEAKER_03: 21:43

It's like you and Wardo called me, and he was literally like, he's a gentleman. He's like, So, what why don't you like it? We want we want to impress you, we like your work, and I was like, It's feminism all the way through, it's shot through with feminism for 20 minutes, and he was like, Well, and then we showed him what we had then, and he was like, Wow, this is impressive. He was like, I just I think these older guys, Gen X and Boomers, just don't know, they don't understand what Nick Fuentes was telling Piers Morgan, like, we're done with it, man. Like racism, sexism, anti-Semitism, it's all funny, like no one cares. Like, okay, well, then we're gonna hit you with the nuclear option. People died, don't care. You know, men subjugated women. That's not even true. But even if people died in the past, you know, if it's in another century from mine, it's funny. And we're just we're going forward with what it takes to uh this was a trajectory, not a not a Roman salute. Um, so we're going forward with a a a different program, a um Western civilization uh reclamation project. And far more important than even reversing the the finger wagging, the pearl clutching, and the beard stroking over racism and anti-Semitism is the sexism thing. Because, like Father Rippiger said on a show today, it's night over 99% of the homes everywhere are just run by these awful women, you know.

SPEAKER_00: 23:05

Even even the trads, especially the trad. That was why I did the show on Michael Matt, because Michael Matt's supposed to be this leader of the traditional movement. And I'm like, he is so off on this. And he was playing clips on his show of he's like, Well, should this woman shut up too? And it's this woman out there telling men, men, you're created for more, and you should be mad. It's like, no, she shouldn't be saying this.

SPEAKER_03: 23:26

Yeah, yeah, of course she should shut up.

SPEAKER_00: 23:28

She shouldn't be saying this, she shouldn't be calling men to do this. And then he played a clip from a nun speaking at his conference. I'm like, Well, Michael, like, think of it. What how weird would it be if that nun got up and started talking to men about pornography? Because that's what the issue came down to with Lila with with Lila. It's just it's it's immodest and it's just out of place. Like, these women should not be doing this. It's just, and I and I the the one thing I'm um I do worry a little bit about, and a lot of it is because of X and just seeing how we all handle, like everybody handles themselves on X is the irony poisoning and kids getting so blackpilled on it that they think they can never find a wife. And there are still good women out there, and it is still good to get married, and it's like the because that is the proposition of the red pill. And I think if we don't make sure we let men know, like you still do find your your purpose in life as a husband and a father, and there are still marriageable women out there that are are women that are that want to be led.

SPEAKER_02: 24:33

Yeah, I mean, yeah, there's not enough dudes kind of stepping to the forefront and then kind of telling these guys to still have hope, though. I mean, if you look on X and you go down these rabbit holes, it's mainly a rabbit hole of of of doomer doomerism, mainly. And there, if there's one thing, and again back to the earlier point that I absolutely agree with Nick Fuentes on, is that uh the untouchable topic is not JQ, it's not race, it's not anything, it's women. This is why nobody wants to touch this topic with a 10-foot pole. Even a lot of the people that are quote unquote based, they do not want to uh shake the hornet's nest, if you will. And this is why I think it was so difficult uh to get this taken on by anybody. And I think it's gonna make, regardless if there's massive promo or not, I think it's gonna hit the right people. And I think especially Gen Z are gonna look at this and actually come out of it not black pilled, but actually uh hopeful. You know, there's not enough guys telling these young dudes that hey, you know, you're keeping it in your pants, you're staying chase. A lot of these zoomers understand that they're returning to the faith in droves, they're returning to tradition in droves, but there's so much black pill and nihilism going on on S. Like it's hard for them to sift through it, right? They've got all the piss and vinegar, and the next thing you know, they're they're voluntary celibate because they think they're all OnlyFans models, or yeah, there's just no hope. It's like, dude, that's so antithetical to the gospel, too.

SPEAKER_03: 25:49

Yeah, the well, the only thing I'll do you one better. The only, and this is a total white pill. Most women out there, by the time they're graduating high school, I saw high school for eight years total. And I know it's it's bleak in some sense. There are some girls that have been really slutty by the end of their senior year of high school, but it's really college where everything gets wrecked. The real the the point of no return is, you know, when a girl's body count goes really, really high, or you know, I guess the scale gets tipped really, really high. Anything other than that, even if she's a feminist when you meet her, even if she's a leftist when you meet her, even if there's you know, whatever, a mistake or two in the past that that's not um super Catholic, even if she's not Catholic, if she's Protestant, if she's super secular, a Chad will just be like, no sweat. I I like the way she looks, I like her sort of core personality. I'll just make her be Catholic. And and and that's not and see when the guys that have no game hear that, a generation raised on the internet. This is the one problem with the Zoomers. Me and Anthony were talking about this the other day. They have no game, they have no confidence in IRL. When you when a Chad hears that, he's like, No problem. I like how this girl looks, I like how she acts aside from the leftism, and you need to be Catholic. It's like, give me two weeks, you know. Women are natural followers, men are natural leaders. Let nature take its course. The four of us married Protestant girls, they're all Catholic now.

SPEAKER_00: 27:22

Exactly. The four of us, nothing, Stephanie's just in true none, but that's the point. Whether she's a name or she's proud of it, like the four of us marry. So because you caught a lot of crap for this, and I said I say the same thing. It's like, I don't care. If like if my son meets a Protestant girl, I'm like, what's fun? Like, she's gonna do what you say, yeah. She's going to do what you say, so it really isn't that big. I I don't feel the same way about girls meeting Protestant guys because no, no, it's a definitely not it's a very big different story. But like, if if a guy like like Tim said, and and look, and also you guys, I know you guys are all watching, like all these young guys are watching like the red pill content, and they're saying like uh you guys have to be realistic about this, and there is a lot of rot out there. So if you meet a girl with one or two mistakes in her past, you can't hold this perfect ideal sometimes, and you have to you have to you have to have a little bit of mercy in that. I'm not saying na la ray, you know what I mean? Like, that's at the point where it's like, okay, that's the point of no return. But a person who made a mistake or two in their past, like you cannot hold anybody to that level of perfection at at this point, just because of how rotten the culture is, in my opinion.

SPEAKER_02: 28:30

I've been saying that for a long time. It's like, hey, if we want to live in a better or have leave a better society for our children, you're gonna have to make these concessions. And a lot of guys came at me so hard because a lot of these dudes are, you know, they're virgins, good for you. That's a good thing. That's that's absolutely virtuous. You're gonna meet women and they're not gonna fit that bill to a T. You've got to have some grace. Only you know what that sort of threshold is for you in terms of how much you're able to deal with. You know, don't go marry an OnlyFans model or a stripper or something crazy like that. Um, but yeah, you get you get these red pill dudes that act like FAGs, and then on the other side, you get these Thomas dudes that are looking for Thomas women. You're like, what is what's wrong with you, bro? What is actually wrong with you? Go find any kind of woman who's attractive, who's like not, you know, a purple-haired feminist who's not vehemently opposed to Christ, and you will convert her. It's not that the the exactly the Chads with some Riz don't care about this stuff because it's like, hey, hey, come here, come here, just you're gonna come next in with me.

SPEAKER_03: 29:30

You know, it's like someone that goes into a comedy and they're looking for drama energy. It's like exactly even if she's a purple held haired feminist, it does she have good facial structure, is she thin and is she kind of cool at her core? You can work with that. You tie that shit out of your hair, man, and uh you wear this. And and other than that, she she wants to follow you if you're cool. The problem is the guys don't know how to be cool. So, this I don't like to do the what about the men though, the Andrew Wilson thing, and just always blame men, but it does come down to these guys just being dorks, yeah, 100%.

SPEAKER_00: 30:02

Yeah, dude, like there are and look, there are tons of women out there who stuck with men who don't know how to lead. Like, we do have to work on men and teach them how to be men because they've grown up in this emasculated, they they maybe didn't have good father figures because we really are dealing with a crisis of fatherhood right now, yeah. And so many young guys have never had mentors or had a father figure in their life who was. I mean, they the recipe for a kid becoming gay is an overbearing mother and an absentee, or like the the the father who's afraid or or just emasculated completely, like that's a recipe to turn a kid homosexual, it just is so a lot of these kids may not have you know they may be straight, but they did grow up in that situation and they need help, you know. And and if if if we're not willing to at least lend a little grace to those guys and help them because these kids need help, man.

SPEAKER_02: 30:55

I'm telling you, well, that's what CMA is all about, right? Mike, yeah, that that's exactly yeah. I mean, we were calling them out, but I think in a way that calls them forward and doesn't just you know in you know inflame their insecurities further, because there's a way to do it. If you're you know shining too much heat on a man, he's just gonna cower, he's gonna you know, fold like a cheap suit, especially nowadays where guys I mean, dude, uh I I grew up in the trades, so being around guys, you're just if if you if you do not know how to keep up and you don't have a thick skin, you are the bottom biatch of of the crew. You just simply are, and a lot of these guys they can't hang, they just can't. So there's got to be a bit of, you know, okay, man, I'll I'll help you walk forward, but I'm gonna I'm gonna push you over, uh, but I'm gonna pick you back up at the same time. That kind of actual masculine direction. Listen, I was one of those dudes. I was raised by my grandparents and a single mother. I had no idea of my masculine identity. What the hell was that? I felt more comfortable around women, and I realized I need to get around more dudes that I want to be like, you know, get to the gym, lift some weights, you know, live, you know, virtuously, uh, be around guys and emulate that, you know, um, um, and grow in virtue, find myself a good woman, and then sort of figure it out. A lot of these guys, I mean, they're not gonna do it um sitting in their basements, not doing anything about it, too.

SPEAKER_03: 32:05

Mike, it's hard to imagine you. I know I've seen the pics of you when you were heavy, but um, you're like, dude, I need to start lifting some weights. And you, whatever day that was, you just started and you just haven't stopped.

SPEAKER_01: 32:16

You've been the mental piece.

SPEAKER_02: 32:19

Mike's lifting weights right now. Yeah, I'm doing leg extensions right now, dude. Actually, back in the day, I I'll show you a picture. I look like a fat lesbian.

SPEAKER_01: 32:28

I've seen the picture, you were still strong as you're very strong. Yeah, I don't know, man.

SPEAKER_03: 32:33

Look like a fat lesbian secretly. That's what I was going for. You're trying to say how handsome you always were.

SPEAKER_00: 32:42

The thing is, um the the Daily Wire not picking up was strange to me because it was kind of an answer. Like the reason you named it this is an answer to Matt Walsh's question, right? What what what is a woman? What a woman is. This is what a woman is. So it would have been a good fit there. Um, I'm kind of glad it didn't go there. Yeah, I I hope I hope it's successful over at um over Candace's network. I'd like to see her promote it a little bit, and uh, and I'd like to get to the bottom of why George Farmer refuses to acknowledge me. Like I gotta probably stop because I'm the I'm the only probably the ducking. I'm just saying, I'm the only Catholic podcaster that George Farmer doesn't like best friends with. I don't know what's going on with that.

SPEAKER_03: 33:23

What uh are you have you uh invited him on the show?

SPEAKER_00: 33:26

No, I don't know.

SPEAKER_01: 33:27

I uh why is he ignoring me? Well, maybe because how does one get in touch with George Farmer? I don't know.

SPEAKER_03: 33:38

Yeah, some you did yeah, I'd imagine he watches your show. I think he's mentioned your show before to me, so he he watches a lot of Catholic content.

SPEAKER_00: 33:46

That's what I hear. I hear the guy does watch a lot. So all right, George, there's a little there's a little message to you. I better get a phone call soon. Um, all right, that up, but I don't think I did just try to make well. I've been making you feel good the whole episode. It's nice that you can make me feel good for a second. Yeah, that's what what are your next stops on promo tours? You got anybody else's show you're going on?

SPEAKER_03: 34:05

I'm going on Elijah Schaefer and Sarah Stalk's shows tomorrow, I guess, right as the thing's coming out. And um yeah, I don't I don't know. I'm I'm I'm buddies with Michael Knowles. I don't know what what the official stance is on allowing uh kind of promotions there because we we did offer it to them and uh they were all impressed with it, but it's just they're like this is a little bit you offered. Oh yeah, we offered it to everyone. I mean we really we offered it to Tucker, very interested. Michael Knowles, the Blaze was very interested for a while. Um Candace Candace at the end of the day is just the one that that has the Hutzpah to do it. So 10 CST tomorrow, a dollar ninety nine on candaceowens.com. You can go uh look at this thing, and I'm we're just we're we're really excited.

SPEAKER_00: 34:54

So yeah, I'm I can't a dollar ninety nine. That's that's honestly. I mean, I'm gonna I already watched it and I'm gonna pay for it. So I would like to see everybody that watches the show. Uh I mean, you guys can afford two bucks, but let's give this thing a good big push early on. Um, I'm I have to wake up at 2 a.m. So I told Tim we were gonna keep this thing like 35 minutes, 40 minutes. Tim's got a bunch of stuff he's gonna be doing soon. I want to see everybody in our audience go spend a few bucks and get this thing popping off. Mike, I'm looking forward to seeing you uh Friday, brother, brother.

SPEAKER_02: 35:24

Me too, bro. Pray that we get there okay. It's a five-hour drive with little kids, but we're we're stoked. My wife is stoked, it's gonna be good.

SPEAKER_01: 35:29

Yeah, I can't wait for wise happening.

SPEAKER_03: 35:31

I have real big FOMO happening. I I guess that um feminism is really just about the friends we made along the way.

SPEAKER_01: 35:38

Not for nothing. These bronze prouder, I don't know.

SPEAKER_02: 35:44

It's true though, it absolutely did. Otherwise, we wouldn't all be talking, would we? No, not at all. We gotta get Tim. We gotta get I'm gonna say it here live. We got to get CMask going again.

SPEAKER_03: 35:54

Uh no, 100%, 100%. It's coming back, boys. It's it needs to come back, which never ended. It was just Nick left, then we were all, and then Will's Will has the craziest schedule ever. He's like tutoring Chinese children, and like his his date book is just more filled than anything. That guy's a workhorse, so he sleeps like two hours a night.

SPEAKER_02: 36:15

I'm convinced that guy's not human. He's like, No, he's not human, he's half cyborg terminator. Yeah, yeah.

SPEAKER_00: 36:22

Yeah, because I I would love to join you guys for an episode and pitch my whole theory about how the entire crisis we are facing in the church is actually because of this mutual submission issue where every parish has the women. This the Susan from the parish council comes down to the priest of that, the pastor of that council being afraid to tell that woman no. And that's how we get all the disorder we get in every single Novus Ordo parish. It's all because of the men afraid to tell women no. We're gonna have incense here, we're gonna have an altar rail here, and I don't want to hear anything. We're not gonna play that crappy song anymore. We're gonna play something a little holier. And like you could actually fix the liturgy in some of the worst places in the country if you just got some men willing to tell these women no.

SPEAKER_03: 37:04

So yeah, we call it the uh what do we call it? The uh the parish warblers. Uh we feel like the the crappy singers in the Novas Ordo parish, and we go here and we don't go to the TLM in New Orleans. We feel like it's like you know, five women stronger each time. It's like 20 last week, 25 this week, and they're just doing the warbling thing, you know, like they do all of them, all of them do that. They all do the warbler. It's it's uh it's disgusting, it's terrible music, they have a terrible voice. I want to do the Larry David thing where you just go and you're like, All right, wrap it up. Good job, great work. Now go go back to your seats. Like, just stop, just go back to your seats. We need the music, it's the worst part of the novice order. I hope we can all agree on that.

SPEAKER_02: 37:51

There's not to mention when Ephesians, when Ephesians 5 comes up, it's always just oh my gosh, dude, you're sitting here like, what am I listening to?

SPEAKER_00: 37:58

Right, if they even if they even talk about it at all. Oh I know a quick a quick anecdote about that. When my cousin Eddie got married, like you have to choose your scripture readings for the wedding. And my cousin chose Ephesians 5. And the priest was like, Really? You want me to read the whole thing? Like he was shocked, and he and he said it to his wife, to his fiance at the time. He's like, You're okay with me reading this, and she's like, I want you to read it. What are you talking about? Like the whole thing was was the like that's the purpose of marriage. What else would you read at a wedding? I don't understand.

SPEAKER_03: 38:32

See, I I wanted to make this point earlier. I think conceptually, I think this might explode your brain. When you were struggling to articulate that that because it's because it is a weirdly expansive concept that there wasn't marriage before Christianity, before Christ elevated um the Jewish covenant to the dignity of a sacrament. The reason it wasn't it doesn't count as true holy matrimony, drum roll, is because um the Jews, obviously, the Muslims had polygamy, the the Jews had polygamy for half the history up to Christ. And then even then, even once it had to be monogamy, what did they have? They had legal divorce. If you enter marriage with legal divorce, that is not match holy matrimony. Yeah, that's not real marriage. So real marriage is uniquely Christian, very uniquely Christian.

SPEAKER_00: 39:20

It's uh it's yeah, because I I I always get an I always get a little frustrated when I hear people say, No, marriage predates religion, and it's like not really, you know. You go back, you go back, you read the old testament, you go back and read through Genesis, they all got 90 wives, and then you get even when you get to first kings, and it's like David's got you know 150 concubines, and uh Solomon had 400 wives and 700 concubines, like that's not marriage, and it took Christ's coming to elevate it to a sacrament to give us marriage.

SPEAKER_03: 39:50

Yeah, yeah, it's which also why why Judaism and Islam are both so carnal, it's also why the red pill is so messed up, it's just for Jews and Muslims, it's run by Jews and Muslims. Red pill. It's a it's a hangout, it's a psyop.

SPEAKER_00: 40:02

Um, it's oh, it's definitely a psyop. I mean, have I mean you you look at even Myron, Myron's like a legitimate fed, he's like a literal fed.

SPEAKER_03: 40:11

All of them are the father's CIA or uh the um Myron's father was in like DHS or something. Um even even Pearl, who's you know always been friendly to us, even her her mom's in some some UN thing, they're they're all um they're all spooks, they're they're all um they glow in the dark. And I don't know if they do, but they're from these families, and that's why they have the opportunities, and it's definitely limited hangout.

SPEAKER_00: 40:39

Yeah, yeah, it's why your channel never blew up, even though you were talking about the same concepts, because you're actually talking about real Christian patriarchy where they're just talking about debauchery.

SPEAKER_03: 40:48

Yeah, they just yeah, like here's here's how to like you know, bang Dallas, bang whatever. And that guy, the um Return of Kings guy, is the one red pill guy that actually repented and and went away, Rouche V. And and uh, you know, props to that guy. He actually went away, he won't even do interviews now, he's just like making pizzas in his mom's like basement, and and he just went away. He's like, I have to repent, and he's orthodox.

SPEAKER_00: 41:13

That's what every one of these women should do that come from like that's really like the uh only when you live a life that publicly shameful, like you really do need to go into hiding and live an aesthetic life, like you really do.

SPEAKER_03: 41:28

That's the only way the mass murderer, the mass genocidist, known as Abby Johnson, killed 22,000 human children and a couple of her own. And instead of going away, and literally, you know, they want you know, Nick Fuentes is he who shall not be named, like Lord Voldemort. He's a good guy, he's a good guy. He's never he's it's literally uh a virgin, as he was saying on Piers, cares about everybody, you know, says he wishes the best for everyone, praise for everyone, praise for his enemies. I know this for a fact from behind the scenes. Never killed not even one, not even two or three humans. On the other hand, just assess how much you are all brainwashed and psyoped. Abby Johnson is foisted in your face, and um, she's killed 22,000 human beings, and and she's not living a life of quiet penance, she's foisted in your face and she's profiting off. It's it's disgusting. The pro-life movement has always been vile because it's led by feminists and they're all they're all witches.

SPEAKER_00: 42:33

So yeah, yeah, it's actually like um like it's and not just that it's not just that she's a pro-life leader, like she killed 22,000 children. Now she makes money off of like like she's she's profiting off of that. Like it's it's kind of crazy, like she's profiting financially now, not just from when she was performing it, but now she goes and pitches that story. It's almost like bragging about your past sense. I don't know, it's it's really disordered.

SPEAKER_02: 43:01

And they'll never talk about getting rid of abortion altogether either, because that would cut their their business off. You know, it's it's stopping 10 short of the mark, which if you're not going to go all the way, you're not going even, you're not making any you know meaningful step toward solution, you're just patting your pockets right up until the very end. It's total BS, total psy-op in and of itself. Yeah, thinly veiled garbage.

SPEAKER_01: 43:23

They usually fight against laws that would actually ban it completely.

SPEAKER_02: 43:27

Exactly. The mental gymnastics that they they they do to justify those points. They don't want to get rid of those cushy multi-six figure salaries and fifty thousand dollars speaking engagements. It's it's it's demonic at its core.

SPEAKER_00: 43:39

Yep. Yeah. Um, all right, Tim. I uh well, first off, I'm grateful just for how much you've helped me on this issue because it really has shaped my thinking on it. So uh yeah, and even even you, Mike, like watching you guys on C Mask all the time, like it really did help me. Because I I never it's not like like I was always the head of my home, but actually being able to like think this stuff through and recognize how much of a problem this stuff is at the root of our culture and why everything is so disordered. You guys have played a very big part in that. So, guys, go check out Tim's documentary tomorrow, 11 a.m. Eastern on Candice's network. It's just CandasOwens.com. Yes, thanks. Candason's dot com. Tim, thank you for everything, man. Appreciate you. Mike, I'll see you on Friday. For sure. God bless you guys.