Avoiding Babylon
Avoiding Babylon was started during the height of the COVID-19 pandemic. During these difficult and dark days, when most of us were isolated from family, friends, our parishes, and even the Sacraments themselves, this channel was started as a statement of standing against the tyrannical mandates that many of us were living under. Since those early days, this channel has morphed into an amazing community of friends…no…more than friends…Christian brothers and sisters…who have grown in joy and charity.
As we see it, our job here at Avoiding Babylon is to remind ourselves and those who enjoy the channel that being Catholic is a joyful and exciting experience. We seek true Catholic fraternity and eutrapelia with other Catholics who, like us, are doing their best to live out their vocation with the help of God’s Grace. Above all, we try to bring humor and joy to the craziness of this fallen world, for as Hillaire Belloc has famously said:
“Wherever the Catholic sun doth shine,
There’s always laughter and good red wine.
At least I’ve always found it so.
Benedicamus Domino!”
Avoiding Babylon
A Rare Win: How Knives Out 3 PORTRAYS the Priesthood (Full LOCALS Version)
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Avoiding Babylon +
Access to the FULL show on audio!A murder mystery shouldn’t make you think about confession, typology, and the weight of a conscience—but this one does, and we couldn’t look away. We dive into a new Netflix whodunit that centers on two very different priests: a former boxer haunted into holiness, and a monsignor who wields real grievances like a cudgel. The tension between them turns out to be the point. One seeks repentance and service; the other chases spectacle and power. That clash lets the story wrestle honestly with grace, guilt, and the human need to find meaning in suffering.
We unpack the film’s most revealing scene: the detective’s sweeping critique of the Church, which slips from ideology into autobiography, and the priest’s answer that reframes everything. Yes, Catholicism is “storytelling”—vestments, ritual, calendar—but that’s precisely how humans grasp truth. Liturgy is a story we step into, a pattern that forms us by the life, death, and resurrection of Christ. From there, the movie’s choices make sense: confession matters, symbols carry weight, and repentance is not a plot twist but a door. Keep an eye out for a quietly placed Credo and a striking final image that turns “Eve’s apple” into a sign of redemption.
We also hit practical notes—how strong pastoral decisions shape a parish, why certain roles at the altar communicate more than we think, and when a movie with spiritual heft is still a “secular” watch parents might screen first. The throughline is simple: stories make us, for good or ill. This one gets more right about Catholic life than most, and it gave us plenty to argue about and celebrate.
If this conversation resonates, share it with a friend, leave a review so others can find the show, and subscribe for the follow-up on Locals where we break down the pivotal church scene in full.
Take advantage of great Catholic red wines by heading over to https://recusantcellars.com/ and using code "BASED" for 10% off at checkout!
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Oh heck no.
SPEAKER_01:That was a good one. That was a good tap.
SPEAKER_00:You made us both in better shape than we are. For sure. I appreciate that, Tap. Lila Rose about to reignite the co-sleeping wars. Keith Desner texted me that earlier. Oh, did he? Keith texted me that screenshot. He goes, Lila Rose is trying to trying to divide and conquer avoiding Babylon. I was like, oh, this will be fun. We can reignite the co-sleeping debate. Um yeah, we didn't do a show Thursday, so it's been like a week since we've been on. Um that but that like the the the the intro video is kind of um apt to my week because I was in Canada and my wife spent a ton of money shopping, so it wasn't me carrying the bags, but we had to send the girls off to go shopping.
SPEAKER_01:So if you'd like to support Avoiding Babylon, here's a link to our tip jar.
SPEAKER_00:Perfect segue. No, not for nothing. I went to I go away to Banff. Um I got I hung out with Holdsworth and Mike Pantila, dragged them both down there. I got to spend the weekend with those guys, plus all the people that I did my former pilgrimage with. Yeah, so um we were there for like five days. Mike and Brian came down Friday. Mike got there Friday morning, Brian got there Friday night. Um, because you pestered him for a full day, right? I pestered Mike. Mike was like, as soon as we heard we were going, he's like, I'm I'm in. But Brian was kind of interesting. Uh Holdsworth basically told me right up until he made the decision that he wasn't going to be able to make it. He's like, Yeah, I don't think so, man. Things are really crazy, too busy. And then we were out to dinner Friday night, and Mike Pantila, because they go to the same parish, and Mike Pantila's wife was like, No, no, no Brian's on his way, he's already heading down. He'll be he'll be here around 11 o'clock. I'm like, he doesn't even tell me, he just tells her. Brian and I have very similar temperaments. He just can't say no. We were actually laughing because first off, I met Mike's wife and I met Brian's wife. Mike's wife is a doll. Mike and his wife are very similar to me and Nicole, like they both have the same temperaments, like as me and Nicole. Yeah, it's they're they it it's like a mirrored relationship, it's pretty funny. But Brian and his wife are very similar to you and Hope, where like they're both melancholic, they're both like so. We were kind of joking around. I'm like, I can't even imagine what an argument in your house is like. And Brian said, he's like, there's a lot of just like burying it deep inside, staring quietly at each other from across the room. You both give each other the silent treatment for days on end. I'm like, oh, I know. And then comes the melancholic dump. Yeah, he's like, he's like, Oh, I you know about that. I go, my my co-host does this quite often. But don't make me laugh too much, it hurts. Because me and you, uh, well, you're sick, right? So you're you're you're you are out of work today. I'm I'm actually home because we got snow, I got snow in New York. So Rob's homesick, and I got uh like eight inches of snow on Long Island. It's the first time we've gotten snow in December in years. Um, and you really can't do paving when it's snowing out. So I was home yesterday and today. So when you said you were sick, I was like, is there any chance you want to do an afternoon show? Which is nice because it's like you have a little bit of energy. So then it was like, okay, what do we talk about? And I told Rob to watch this movie because I watched it last night. But but before we even get to that, we are both home and poor. I just went on vacation and now I'm laid off.
SPEAKER_01:Unlike what a certain um vagabond on Twitter likes to think. Us trads ain't uh rolling in money.
SPEAKER_00:So no, no, not at all. No, but honestly, it's the end of the year. This is our Christmas gift. If you guys would like to give us a little bit of a Christmas gift, Rob left the barcode up in the top right corner or the whatever that thing is.
SPEAKER_01:It's it if you can't do the scan thing, go to avoidingbabylon.com and there's a donate button at the top. I don't like using the word donate because we're not a nonprofit. Like yeah, it's just throwing us a tip.
SPEAKER_00:Like, if you guys enjoy the show and you want to give us something without giving YouTube a cut, it's better than super chats.
SPEAKER_01:You have to do it in increments of five dollars. I couldn't figure out how to do it otherwise.
SPEAKER_00:So sorry, it's a little janky, but a little janky. But yes, if you guys would like to throw us a tip for the end of the year, that would be very nice. Uh LLC money already dried up. I actually, you know what? We haven't even I we I haven't we'll get into that later, whatever. It's not even worth getting into. Um, yeah, it's been it's actually been the the the the least profitable month since we started the show, I think. But we'll get into that.
SPEAKER_01:Well, that's because it's all going into the LLC instead of our pockets, yeah.
SPEAKER_00:So we're we're both broke right now, but um, okay, so also Reccucent Sellers. If you guys haven't, it's a great idea for a Christmas gift. You guys still have a shot at getting a bottle of wine for Christmas. So if you can go to recusandsellers.com, use code based at checkout for 10% off. Really is a great Christmas idea. Like if you're going to your in-laws or somewhere and you want to bring a gift, bottle for sure. Thing to bring. Catholic family, awesome supporters of the show. We love Recus and Sellers. They also have fruit that uh I don't know how the fruit works in the winter, but maybe they have stuff that's still stopped.
SPEAKER_01:Uh, I don't think they have it at this time of the year.
SPEAKER_00:Yeah, so well, you know, if you can bring a bottle of wine to Christmas. Uh, it's a it's a it's a great gift. So go to ReckySyncellars.com, use code based at checkout for 10% off. Thank you. All right, so to the show. Yeah, so I was I I watched it last night, and after watching it, I I thought it was great. And I shot a tweet out and I was like, hey, um, latest Netflix knives out uh is a really interesting show. It's like it depicts two priests. Um, and I thought by the end of it, it showed it was like it was like a really well done movie who would that that showed repentance and grace and meaning and suffering. Like I thought it was really well done. So I tweeted that out, and Matt Marsden wrote back to me saying that I thought it was a horrible cliche caricature of Catholics. And I felt like I was like, are we watching different movies? So I I asked Rob to watch it today to just kind of give me his feedback, and I figured we'd we'd talk about it here. So, what was your are you do you lean more towards my end or Marsden?
SPEAKER_01:So um I started watching it, and I've I've not seen the two previous Knives Out movies. So when you said there was a new Knives Out movie out, I'm like, I don't even know what you're talking about. But um, so I started watching it, and um it's probably 20-30 minutes into the sh the movie. I I tell my wife, I I say, you know, to hope I'm like, I don't know why Anthony has me watch these stupid movies. Like him and I clearly have very different taste. Um but then it was probably it's it's a longer movie than you'd think. You know, it was getting to what I felt was gonna be towards the end, and I looked and it was halfway through, yeah, and I'm like, this is actually getting good. I want to watch the rest of this movie, and um and by the end, yeah, it was um uh I you know, so I know Rian Johnson directed it, right?
SPEAKER_00:Um, I don't know who else was involved in it, but I really do feel like there was someone involved in it that was that that is deeply Catholic, deeply Catholic and like knows the Catholic word because Rob texts me before the before the movie, and he goes, dude, this is Father Altman. Like the so all right, so the the movie basically we we'll try not to destroy the plot if you guys haven't seen it yet. Because it's a murder mystery, like we can't yeah, and it's a yeah, we won't we won't spoil the movie on you, but we'll give you like the general plot.
SPEAKER_01:It's a it's not like I confess where we're talking about a murder mystery movie from 60 years ago.
SPEAKER_00:Yeah, it's brand new, so people might not have seen it yet. But like initial impressions, like the main the main character of the movie is a guy who is a boxer, and he becomes a priest after he kills someone in the boxing ring, right? So, this is a guy who who is fight is he's a boxer, he kills someone in the boxing ring, and he feels in his heart that like he kind of knew what he was doing, and he had hatred in his heart.
SPEAKER_01:He maybe didn't intend to kill the guy, you know, so there was no criminal case, but he had hatred in his heart for him, so he does feel like it was morally murder, yeah.
SPEAKER_00:So, and but he doesn't he the the way his character develops, it's like he finds this freedom in Christ, and he and that and that is portrayed throughout the movie. Now, the other character, the protagonist would that be the protagonist, I guess.
SPEAKER_01:Yeah, played by the uh no, the antagonist. Played by Josh Brolin, right?
SPEAKER_00:Yeah, play played by Josh Brolin. This guy is modeled after Father Altman. I would not be surprised if like I'm I'm pretty sure they they actually just did a person. Some of the mannerisms, some of the uh supposed advice is um the thing is like part of like the the part of the father well Monsignor Wicks is the guy's name in the movie. Something he does is he's intentionally provocative to try and get people to walk out, yeah. And I the first time I saw Father Altman was at the canceled priest conference, and I walked out during his talk. Like, that's how I was like offended by the things he was saying. I was just like, I can't even be in here for the and I walked out. It it felt very much like that, where it was intentionally fiery. And look, this and and there are true things that this Monsignor Wix says. Like, don't get me wrong.
SPEAKER_01:There are like the whoever that this movie really did capture. I mean, not the oh, the entire crisis in the church, but it really did capture kind of the war against modernism, right? Yeah, yeah.
SPEAKER_00:So the so they so so this this Monsignor Wix is talking about like all the things the church is facing, the Marxists and the this and the that, and you know, all all the things that the church is actually facing. So you want to side with him, but he is a villain, and and he has like rottenness in his heart. Now, the the the protagonist of the film, Father Judd, seems like he's very much modeled after a father Mike Schmitz.
SPEAKER_01:Very much so, yeah.
SPEAKER_00:Which, you know, I people might have criticism of Father Mike Schmitz, but you could tell the man has a deep love for Christ. Like he just does. Father Mike has a very deep love for Christ, and this priest in this movie does also. Like, he's there's there's so many things that that uh come up where it it starts off like the opening scene in the movie is he punches a deacon in the face, you know. And when he's when he's being disciplined by his um by the eclipse, yeah, by his bishop. First off, the none of the priests are f effeminate in this movie. No, they're all very masculine, including the bishop. The bishop is like, yeah, you know, that guy kind of deserves a punch in the face.
SPEAKER_01:The bishop is is played by the the black guy from Westworld, right?
SPEAKER_00:Yeah, yeah, yeah. Sorry, so none of the priests are effeminate in it. Um there are there are some caricatures that you know would make Catholics maybe look like they're you know a bit over the top or and stuff like that, but I didn't none of that bothered me because of none of it felt untrue or forced, you know, or derogatory towards Catholics at all. Yeah, and yeah, yeah, and then and there's one scene where the the the lead detective, his name is Blanc, he he meets the priest for the first time, the good priest, the good priest, and uh Father Judd asks Blanc what he feels like how how do you feel about the church that we're in? And Blanc goes in this long diatribe about you know the church and its homophobia and all this and it does like the typical liberal bashing of the church, but then kind of gets into how his mother was overly religious, and that like you could kind of see his hangups come, and the excuses he makes for why he isn't religious are basically like um it's cope. Yeah, it's it's a lot of cope, and it's a lot of a lot of stuff you would see in in your everyday life of the justifications people make for why they have left the church or no longer attend the sacraments, things like that. It's a it's very much something you would hear somebody say. So it's even in his criticisms of the church, you're like, Yeah, I've seen this guy, you know.
SPEAKER_01:Like he doesn't go as far as saying, you know, pulling out the reddit tier like sky daddy stuff, but it almost gets to that point, and and you can tell he's he's wrapping his his uh sorry guys. Yeah, he's a little sick. Maybe his his own moralities he's wrapping the insecurities with his mother and his upbringing in like this whole you know, new atheist rationality sort of cope. And then I think the movie makes it actually really obvious.
SPEAKER_00:Very obvious, and then Father Judd's response to him because he's like the these stories, and you know, these stories they try to enrapture you, and I'm facing I'm facing this story, and and Father Judd's response is like, Yeah, yeah, it is a story. Um, including the religious garb that we wear, including the rituals that we do there, they're all story, and that's kind of how man perceives the world is through story. And the idea the the thing is we have to really consider does the story hint at a deeper moral truth and a deeper real truth that gets to the depth of who we are, and like he goes through this long explanation, and then all of a sudden, um Father Judge starts to get like emotional. And Blanc is like, What what what's going on? What's going on? He's like, I just I kind of felt like a priest for a moment because the the priest is the one being accused of of the murder that takes place in the show, and he got the good priest, the good priest the bad priest is murdered, the good priest is accused of it, and he and the way he gets overwhelmed in giving his explanation, it was it was a very good um it was a very good catechesis moment that he gives about it. Sound sounded like something I would say, and then he gets overwhelmed. It also sounded exactly like Father Mike. That's how Father Mike talks in Bible in the year. And when he gets overwhelmed, though, I'm I'm like, that that's kind of like it made me think of why we even started doing this show, and a lot of it had to do with because I uh what is she what is she texting me? Oh sorry. Um like why we started doing this show is because I always had anytime I would be discussing the faith, I would feel alive. Like it was it was a it was something about my in my conversations in everyday life. The time I felt the most alive is when I was talking about God to people, and I saw that in this priest where he he's discussing the faith and the church because he's explaining the church. He's like that, you know, the the story this church is telling it's kind of weird because it's not even a middle-aged church, it's really a 19th-century uh neo-gothic. Yeah, it's like a neo-gothic church. He's like, but it's still telling a story. He's like, But these stories resonate with us, and it sounded like some like something I would say, and that I would feel like my heart jumping as I was telling it to whoever I was telling it to, and then he has that moment. I I I just thought it was really well done. Um, I do have a statue of Our Lady I could put behind me. That might be a good idea. Um, so yeah, so overall, you know, there are going to be things that people can be critical of. Like Matthew Marsden's critique was he's like, you know, it was just a stereotypical bad priest calling his mother the harlot whore. And I'm like, that that's what got you.
SPEAKER_01:I mean, like, I've never heard that stereotype, to be honest.
SPEAKER_00:I don't know, I don't know what he was getting at. I but the end the way the movie ends is very well done, um, in showing how repentance and like like true healing comes through repentance and finding meaning in your suffering. There's there's two stories that kind of end in the movie where these two themes come to life. So for anybody that does want to watch the movie, it's not you know, I mean, it's a it's a it's a secular movie. Uh it just I thought that the themes were very well done, and I thought that in the end, it really brought home this idea of repentance actually leads to true freedom, and that you find your meaning and your miracle through suffering, yeah.
SPEAKER_01:Um, um, one little uh Easter egg that I saw that I thought was pretty funny was at one point there, um, the detective played by Daniel Craig is in uh Father Judd's room, and uh you see on the floor um a copy of uh Bishop Schneider's uh Krato.
SPEAKER_00:How Rob he goes, did you see the did you see the the copy of Krato in in the set? I was like, I did not even see it's clearly visible. You can read Krato on it, and if you have it, you know exactly what it is, which is what makes me think whoever was on this set was either they they had traditional Catholics on this set, giving insight into probably Monsignor Wick's character, yeah, right? This fiery traditional priest who's preaching hell and brimstone and uh tradition, um not traditional and liturgy, right? Not liturgical, no. It definitely wasn't liturgically traditional, but it's this fire and brimstone preaching, and but that Easter egg is an Easter egg, so whoever whoever was on set clearly put that.
SPEAKER_01:I mean, it's not it's not like it's the only other books they that are recognizable in the the the movie are the ones that uh Daniel Craig's detective character, you know, they're like old murder mysteries that he reads out of to figure out the mystery. Other than those, this is the only book that's clearly visible. So it was it was interesting.
SPEAKER_00:Yeah, it was just I look, it was an interesting movie. I thought it came home, and in the end, it showed a Christ figure for the priest. A guy and it also showed how greed and the love of money can destroy a person. Money, money, greed, and power can really destroy a person.
SPEAKER_01:And there's and actually with the with now that I think about it, all the um all of the prisoners there had some sort of predominant fault, right? That really ended up destroying almost all of them. None of them really uh make it out uh virtuously, you know. So that that was interesting too.
SPEAKER_00:Except the one the the girl with the cello.
SPEAKER_04:True, that yeah, that yeah, that's true.
SPEAKER_00:That that was that one was really important to catch, also, because that was the one that kind of like the meaning through suffering one. So um yeah, there's also like this this whole theme of of uh don't don't search for Eve's apple now. Christ is your redemption, Christ is your inheritance now. Like the this whole theme of of of Eve's apple, like don't go and and bite the apple now because Christ, your inheritance, is here now. That is your that is your inheritance.
SPEAKER_01:Even in the end, um Eve's apple, which we we're not gonna say what it is, not that it's a big secret, but Eve's apple ends up, which which is the source of so much evil in the show, is almost um typologically it's like redeemed in in the crucified Christ, right? Yeah, that's where it ends up being placed in this this this crucifix that he builds himself for the church ends up containing Eve's apple in it.
SPEAKER_00:Yeah, there's there's some some good typology in that that I enjoyed. So um, yeah, we figured we would jump on, just do a quick 20-minute, 25-minute summation of the movie. Because I think if because a couple of people that saw it responded to me and said, I made it through 30 minutes and I turned it off. And that was Rob's instinct, too. He's like, he's like, I don't know what you know, why is Anthony even making me watch this? But if you finish the movie out, especially after you get to to the halfway mark, you'll start seeing these themes popping up, and especially in the the main father Judd, like the things that he's getting at, and he's constantly trying to bring people to to healing through Christ. And I I mean, I I thought it was very well done. Uh, you know, it's clearly a secular movie, so I'm not going to act like it's you know the the the the sequel to passion or anything, you know. But I think if uh no, you're going to get a full show because we're gonna go to locals next.
SPEAKER_01:So we're gonna kind of keep this one short because we figure people that watch movie reviews don't want to watch an hour-long movie review, but we are going to and it'd be weird if like you know, 25 minutes into a movie review suddenly became about you know the Jewish question, it just no.
SPEAKER_00:So, what we're going to do over on locals, we're gonna discuss voice of reason, but there's also one clip of the movie I want to play, and that's the that's the scene we just discussed before with where Blanc meets um Father Judd. So we're going to go over to locals. If we play it over here, we'll get a copyright strike and they'll kill the stream on us. So if if we go over to locals, we can play that clip, and then I want to discuss Alex for voice of reason his him him thinking he's coming back because he keeps pretending he's oh, I'm listening to my spiritual fathers, but it's just this this this is appalling, in my opinion. And then uh Rob's got an interesting story of a woman who wanted her daughter to be uh an altar server, and the priest said no.
SPEAKER_01:Um there's an interesting comment on locals, actually. Um, so uh they say apparently Ryan Johnson made the film to grapple with his upbringing and evangelicalism, but chose Catholicism for the film because of aesthetics, saying that the most of the churches he went to growing up were like pottery barns. Apparently, he did talk to a table full of priests in Denver, and Father Scott Bailey was the technical consultant for the script.
SPEAKER_00:Think about it. I forgot to even bring that up. I'm so glad that comment was in there because that's the first thing I thought is people. If you want to depict Christianity properly, you need to do it with Catholicism. You cannot do it with Protestantism. No, that movie would not have worked, it would not have worked. You needed it to be these two priests, you needed to have the sacrament of reconciliation, like you needed to have the sacrament of reconciliation at the end.
SPEAKER_01:You needed redemptive suffering.
SPEAKER_00:That none Protestantism doesn't offer any of what these themes grapple with in the movie, it had to be done the way it was done, and that's all I was thinking throughout the movie is this only works if it's Catholic priests that you're talking about.
SPEAKER_01:Um, all you get with Protestantism is God's not dead, one, two, and three. That's it, right?
SPEAKER_00:So, in an interesting way, all of the like the best tools for evangelism are always going to be through Catholicism because you're you're playing with these teams that Protestantism never touches. And and like actual red this isn't like, oh, oh well, I've been saved though, right? No, you're dealing with people who are Christian and grappling with redemption in their own lives. It's it's a really it's a really good, uh, a really uh it's every movie that has to deal with this stuff. If you want to do demonic possession, you have to use Catholicism. If you want any of these things, you need the aesthetics, not just the aesthetics, but the theology of Catholicism. Yeah, it doesn't work without our theology. Um, so uh yeah, all right. So we're going to jump over to locals to uh let's see. Um I'm sorry, uh Christian Mario just texted me. Um all right, so we're going to go love you, Rob, love you, Anthony, love you, chat. There you go. Um, so we're gonna go over to locals. We're gonna discuss uh we're gonna play a clip from the movie that I definitely want to um that I definitely want to uh show. And then we're gonna discuss voice of reason. And I want to discuss that um that woman who wanted her daughter to be an altar server because it kind of just shows you the um the mindset of women who push their kids to do things that they don't even want to do, but they're activists and they can't help themselves.
SPEAKER_01:So that's what we're gonna do over there. For the record, we're not necessarily recommending the movie, especially to like other like faithful Catholics. It's a secular secular movie.
SPEAKER_00:It's just I'm trying to pull the good out of it, right?
SPEAKER_01:Especially because when uh secular people go and see it, they might have questions about Catholicism for you.
SPEAKER_00:You know, you know, it's not something I would man. I don't know if I I I would say I shouldn't recommend it though. Like I I don't know. I uh I mean there's definitely some is there blasphemy in it? Uh there was I didn't pick up on it.
SPEAKER_01:I'm sure the only part I remember in there was one time when uh Martha scares Father Judd and he jumps.
SPEAKER_00:Oh, and he takes the Lord's name in vain, right?
SPEAKER_01:Um there's probably more, but it wasn't so egregious where it stuck out to me.
SPEAKER_00:No, and there wasn't foul language. So somebody's asking, is it teenager appropriate? Yeah, I would say it is.
SPEAKER_01:Yeah, and there was no nudity. There was the the uh Monsignor Wick's mother is dressed somewhat scandalously, at least.
SPEAKER_00:In confession, confesses uh he does confess, yeah. He can he confesses sins of the flesh in confession, but it's he's it's it's a bit of a vulgar conversation, but um that's about it. Yeah, I would say, yeah, those those are the warnings. Um, yeah, this the yeah, that I I would say that's probably the the hardest part to sit through is the vulgar confession, but at the same time, he's trying to do something with that, like he's trying to there's a plot point there, yeah. There's a plot point to it, he's trying to shock the priest and scare him off or something like that. So it's like um it's not and look it, it's he kind of just says our lord's name real quick. He doesn't say it, he doesn't say gd or anything like that.
SPEAKER_01:I don't remember any gds in it.
SPEAKER_00:No, I don't think there was. I he just says our lord's name real quick, and it's not even like JC, where he uses it vulgarly. He's just like he's jump scared and he it was our Lord's name, right? Yeah, it was uh yeah, so um it's definitely less vulgar than uh father um what was that movie with Marky Mark and Mel Gibson?
SPEAKER_01:Well, it's probably less vul vulgar than Father Altman's sermons, yes, exactly. Less vulgar than Father Altman's sermons. Um Father Stew, yeah. Father Stewart's way, way better. Honestly, it's a it's a better movie morally than Father Stew. I think so.
SPEAKER_00:100% better than Father Stew, uh, because it's way less vulgar than Father Stew. And I father stew, you're watching this whole vulgar movie for one payoff speech at the end. Yeah, that's essentially it.
SPEAKER_01:You watched this, and it was very shallow. Like, I'm not gonna say shallow, but I'm it the message was right there on the surface. Whereas I mean, it may maybe we're reading into this movie more than we should, but uh, I there's some I think there's some deep stuff here.
SPEAKER_00:I do too. I like that's that's the that's how I came away thinking about it. And my wife was kind of like in and out in the first half hour. She's like, I don't know if I'm gonna watch the same same as you, but then once it gets into those deeper themes and conversations, I was like, This this is some good stuff here, like this might actually spark someone's heart if they're paying attention. Yeah, like I don't know. I I think it could. I don't know. So we'll see. Um, all right. So we're gonna head over to locals. If you guys can, please join us over there. It's gonna be uh uh continuation. So we're doing early today, Thursday. We're going to be on with Mike Church.
SPEAKER_01:So um that'll be going to be an interesting subject. So this is a show where um they just he picks a subject, not church related, and just has a discussion with it on that subject with a few guys. I think this subject is about uh Christmas movies, oh which is like Anthony's specialty, he'll he'll ruin everyone's day.
SPEAKER_00:I'm I'm wondering if I should play the troll up of pretending I don't like it's a wonderful life. I don't actually dislike that movie, it just makes everybody so mad. Where was I I don't think I've ever watched it. I think I've tried watching it twice and I fell asleep, but I've never actually watched It's a Wonderful Life. Uh that one and Johnny Cash. If you if you if you say Johnny Cash things, people lose their minds. Um, so all right, so we're gonna head over to to locals. Uh but yeah, so we'll be oh all right, we'll be on we on Mike Church at 7 p.m. Eastern. Hope we're hoping that runs about an hour, and then we may just come over and do a local show on our channel.
SPEAKER_04:We'll see how that goes.
SPEAKER_00:Yeah, we'll probably just do a local show on our channel. So if you guys are locals members, just pay attention to that. We'll we'll probably just jump on from uh my church right over to our locals, and we'll do an hour over on locals, and uh that'll be a Thursday show, and that'll be our our out before Christmas.
SPEAKER_01:No, we'll have Tuesday. No, we'll have Tuesday. Okay, and then maybe we'll do uh no. Uh is it Friday or Saturday? We're on with the Catholic unscripted next week.
SPEAKER_00:Uh Saturday, I think we're on with Catholic Scripted uh Catholic Unscripted. I don't know if we're doing that on our channel or theirs.
SPEAKER_04:We haven't either.
SPEAKER_00:Yeah, we haven't really hammered that out yet. If it's on ours, maybe we'll just go live. Yeah, we'll go live and then we'll yeah, we'll figure that out. I don't know. That's that's next week. So all right, guys, we'll see. Oh, I have a question. If someone isn't able to take communion, should they be going up to get a blessing during the TLM?
SPEAKER_01:I would say there's no reason to. You definitely can, but it's the same blessing everyone receives at the end of Mass.
SPEAKER_00:Um the the mass we went to in Banff, Canada, the priest, um the priest before communion, uh like gave a whole little uh like talk about like making sure that like those of you who are because it was a we had to go to a Nova Sorta, it was the only thing we had there. I wasn't I I still don't think you you have a you I don't I still don't think I could miss my Sunday obligation. So anyway, the the priest was like gave a whole talk about before communion about making sure you can consume the host immediately if you're receiving on the hand. Uh and he said, if you have a child who hasn't yet made their communion, just tell them to come up with their arms crossed and I'll give them a blessing. But that's a novice order, that's not a Latin ass.
SPEAKER_01:And Mrs. Casey's right, uh diocesan parishes, like when I go up with my, you know, with kids for communion, just because there's no way I'm leaving those three wildlings behind as we go up for communion. Um, the diocesan priest does give them a blessing, but uh the trad trad orders probably won't.
SPEAKER_00:I don't know. Before my daughter made her communion, I at the SSPX chapel we went up to receive, and the and father gave my daughter a blessing at the SSPX. So I don't know if that's like a standard rule. I guess that would be priest, maybe priest dependent, you know. Like she came up, I was holding her, and he gave me communion, he just made the sign of the cross on her and gave her a blessing. So I don't know if it's like I don't know if somebody else went up there like this. He was, you know, that's that's inappropriate. You're kneeling at the communion rail, could could lead to confusion. So I would say no. Yeah, for sure. Um oh, Catholic Unscripted said they they want to talk to us about Fuentas. That's interesting.
SPEAKER_04:Where where did you see that?
SPEAKER_00:Uh in the locals chat.
SPEAKER_04:Oh, they're in the locals chat right now.
SPEAKER_00:No, no, no. Uh Nikki Vu said I heard Catholic Unscripted saying they're going to ask you about Fuentas. Okay, sounds good. Um, all right, guys, we'll see you on the other side. Come and join us on locals. If you're not already a local member, that's the best way to support us.
SPEAKER_01:Let me let me post it in the chat here, real quick. And pin it. So if you're in the chat right now, just click on that link to head over. And uh, I'm gonna just start cutting uh streams off here. We'll start with Facebook.
SPEAKER_00:Somebody's asking what we thought of the Fuentes and Piers Morgan thing. Well, it was one of the funniest videos I've ever still had.
SPEAKER_01:For some reason, this didn't go out on your Twitter today. I would have sworn I clicked it, but whatever.
SPEAKER_00:Uh recently renewed my local support for a third year, and this is the first time I've caught the show live. Look at that. Well, look, I wish we could do these afternoon shows. Um, but people do expect us at 8 p.m. now. So I don't know, like we didn't have that many in the live. Like it was a it was it wasn't like a big live for us. But when we do 8 p.m., it's prime time, and usually get a couple hundred in there. This this looked a little low.
SPEAKER_01:Yeah, like releasing um a recorded video at three is perfect. Um, because the algorithm for recorded videos takes the first six hours into effect, so when you release it at three, it builds a little until the primetime hours of like six o'clock, right? And then then it gets those too. Because if you start, if you release it at six, then it's like the last hours 11 at midnight, and no one's watching then. Yeah, but um for live shows, it it the first two hours basically while you're streaming, is what matters. So yeah, you want to do those at prime time.
SPEAKER_00:I'll say this.
SPEAKER_01:So Molly sounds like a dying animal.
SPEAKER_00:Gee, Molly said she's behind on everything. For anybody that didn't watch our um advent shows that we did, like when we did the Romans 9 through 11 and the Catholic versus Protestant gospel shows, like we did some deep dives into scripture, those shows never get big views, but those are our best shows.
SPEAKER_04:They're good.
SPEAKER_00:Like they are really well done, I thought. I mean, they're a little slow in the first um um a little slow in the first like 20 minutes that we get our bearing, and then we just kind of go deep on them. And I've gotten tons of people reach out to me and tell me that this this was awesome. Then uh Ryan TLM just did that debate. He debated that guy on Solo Scriptora and uh a couple other things, and he said he used one of one of the things he learned from us in that debate. I forgot exactly what he said. Awesome, but yeah, something he learned from us. Oh, uh, about the older brother in Genesis. He said, uh, he's like that. I just started talking to the guy about the theme, the the the theme of the older brother in Genesis, and the and the Protestant was like, Wow, I never, you know, like like you're you're reading the Bible on your own. If you don't have somebody to kind of help you through those things, you'll just kind of miss that stuff. It's just at a cursory reading of the book of Genesis, you're not gonna pick up on the elder brother theme without somebody kind of leading you through it and pointing it out to you. Like, we're we're talking about stuff that the fathers of the church picked up on because they had these amazing graces that God grants them in the early church. So it's not something that somebody in 2025 is gonna pick up the Bible and just catch it.
SPEAKER_01:Yeah, Mrs. Casey's in she's watch all of our shows.
SPEAKER_00:She's just not a Catholic drama. Oh, okay, good, good, good, good. Um, yeah, the okay. So why don't we do the um the the okay? So the my my daughter wants to be an altar server. So uh JD Flynn from um what is that outlet? Uh Pillar. The pillar posted this.
SPEAKER_01:Let me let me bring it up. Let me bring it up.
SPEAKER_00:You're head of the game here. A concerned Catholic. Father Pat was lovely. The new young priest, Father Francis, is rather more challenging. He means well, but he wants to take us back to before Vatican II. My daughter has just made her first communion, and I told him I want her to serve at the altar. Can you believe he said only boys will be serving in future? I was livid and decided to leave for the neighboring parish. I don't see, however, why I should be forced out. I think I should write the bishop. Is that the best option? And then you can see the chaplain starts off and says, This is an emotive issue. I fully understand how you see this will be uh so he gets I guarantee that woman lost. Oh, for sure. So I don't get told to calm down, calm down, ma'am. Calm down. Um, so I don't actually know what the rest of the chaplain's response is because Rob uh just just saw the screenshot and he posted that in there, but it gets to something a little deeper, which is that that the woman's daughter didn't even want to be an altar server. That's not what was going on there. It's that this woman wanted her daughter to be an altar server, and it's the same thing with all these women who want their kids to go for these surgeries and stuff. It's like these women want their daughters to be men, yeah. And God bless that priest who said no, because there's so many. This is like the Issue that we're facing today is priests unwilling to say no to these women. So that priest that said no to her, good for him. It's uh it's not easy to to stand up to to women sometimes because they are a bit much to handle.
SPEAKER_01:The uh the priest that used to say the TLM that was more nearby us than two hours away, um, when he got moved, uh right around the time of traditional custodas, he got moved to uh a parish with a a school, right? So a lot of a lot of kids. And um the parish was pretty good beforehand, but he he made some changes, like no female altar servers, um, you know, the a lot of the uh the proppers in Latin and stuff like that. Um because of course he couldn't do the TLM at this new parish because you know, traditional ketos forbid it because it wasn't existing before, anyways. Um, and he they lost a lot of uh lot of families that were you know against the whole no girl ultra boys and things like that. But within a year or two, I mean that parish was doubled in size.
SPEAKER_00:That's just what happens though, right? Like you you tighten things up, you're gonna lose an initial group who are stuck in their ways, but then you start to attract people who are more, you know, uh that they take their faith more seriously. And now you get a community that is actually focused on the faith, and the and and it'll be a more lively and vibrant parish. My best friend has to have this conversation with her girls all the time because it's allowed at their parish, so she finally just got them involved in the choir.
SPEAKER_01:Oh, um, someone did post a full article.
SPEAKER_00:Do we want to read more of it? No, I say uh I say we play the clip. The timestamp is four 40 minutes 59 seconds.
SPEAKER_01:Of the movie, yeah. Oh, okay. We're switching. We're okay. We're we're hold on.
SPEAKER_00:Yeah, I kind of want to I kind of want to show that clip because Blanc's rant. It I think most people watching it quickly will go, oh, here we go. It's more liberal nonsense. But this is something you would hear Piers Morgan say. Like this is something you'll hear some boomer who doesn't like what the modern church is because you know, it doesn't like the the the things of the church's past and things like that. But to it's a it's like a two-minute clip and then father's response to it, and I just thought it was awesome.
SPEAKER_01:Um, do you want me to start a little earlier when uh Blanc just walks into the church for the first time?
SPEAKER_00:I I think you could go back two seconds. I think if you just go 40 57, because it's a two a two and a half minute clip. I don't want to bore people too much. Go like 40 57 and he asks him what what do you think? Okay.
SPEAKER_01:Now um off the top of my head, I don't know if there's any taking on the case.
SPEAKER_00:I just watched the scene. I don't I think it's fine.
SPEAKER_01:But if there is, I apologize. Yeah, it's locals, they'll forgive us.
SPEAKER_02:Truthfully. Sure. Well, the architecture, that interests me. I feel the grandeur, the the mystery, the intended emotional effect. And it's like someone is shouting a story at me that I do not believe. It's built upon the empty promise of a Charles Fairy tale filled with malevolence and misogyny and homophobia, and it's justified, untold acts of violence and cruelty while all the while and still hiding its own shameful acts. So, like an ordinary mule kicking back, I want to pick it apart and pop its perfidious bubble of belief and get to a truth. I can swallow without choking. The rafter details are very fine, though, they say. Listen, you want to kick me out and go right ahead.
SPEAKER_03:No, no. You're being honest, it's good.
SPEAKER_02:Telling the truth can be a bitter. I suspect you can't always be honest with your parishious.
SPEAKER_03:You can always be honest by not saying the unhonest part.
SPEAKER_02:Yeah.
SPEAKER_03:You're right. It's storytelling. This church, it's it's not medieval. We're in New York. It's neo-gothic 19th century. It has more in common with Disneyland than Notre Dame and the rites and rituals and costumes, all of it. It's storytelling. You're right. I guess the question is do these stories convince us of a lie?
SPEAKER_00:See the sun popping up on it.
SPEAKER_03:They resonate with something deep inside us that's profoundly true. We can't express it any other way. Except storytelling.
SPEAKER_00:Now watch it, watch how he kind of like gets overwhelmed.
SPEAKER_03:So I'm sorry. I just I just felt like a priest again.
SPEAKER_00:I just thought that scene was so good. Like he he you could tell, like, this is he played that really well there, like because I've had that experience where when you're talking about God, something like comes alive inside of you. So I mean, there's a bunch of moments like that in this movie.
SPEAKER_01:Yeah, and he's he's the the point he made was making about storytelling. Um what what's the uh who's the priest? Um that was a mass of the ages one that they take out.
SPEAKER_00:Oh Father Jackson.
SPEAKER_01:Yeah, so in Father Jackson's book, I I forget what it's called. Um, but it's it's about the traditional liturgy, and in it he does talk about um how liturgy is almost um a plaything, not not in the way that modernists see it, right? Where it's a plaything to be changed however you want and to fill whatever you know desires you have. It's like the plaything of a child, it's like children at play, and it's how you know it's how children tell it liturgy is how we tell the story of salvation, you know. So that's the fact that that point was made was um was pretty impressive, honestly.
SPEAKER_00:It's it's how you embody the Christian story. Every that's why we have the liturgical calendar, like through what we're doing at mass. First off, at every single mass, you go through the life, death, resurrection of Christ at every single mass. Like that is the the the mass of the catechumens and the mass of the faithful, or the the liturgy of the word and the liturgy of the Eucharist. Like those you're going through the the the life of Christ and then the death and resurrection of Christ at every single mass. So you are witnessing a story at every single liturgy, and then when you do that throughout the liturgical calendar, you're going through the entire life of Christ in the entire liturgical calendar. Yes, yeah, 100%. Yeah, so absolutely it is a story we're telling, and it's a play that you're entering into, it's choreographed and it all of it, and it's because that's how the world unfolds to us is through story, it's how everything unfolds to us.
SPEAKER_01:So and the more you realize that and see that in everything, the more it opens your eyes to the lies everyone's trying to tell you, right? Um, because so much of um, for instance, like uh uh um a military ceremony, it is a liturgy, yeah. It's telling a story and it's it's trying to get you to believe something, feel something. Um, singing the national anthem before uh a sporting event is what's right. That is liturgical, and it's trying to it's telling you a story about her country and trying to get you to feel certain things, do things a certain way, and and uh so much in life is is storytelling and liturgical, and it's trying to to most of it is trying to manipulate you, yeah.
SPEAKER_00:Whereas look at all the narratives, look at all the narratives we've been fed over the past, like this is what we talk about on our show all the time. These are all narratives that you're given a story, and you're supposed to believe the story that that's being on you know being told to you from everything to from children's murder to everything going on a tour through Auschwitz and then going to Israel and kissing the Western Wall, those yeah, those are liturgical hundred percent storytelling. It's funny, like even addicts, right? Somebody that that is addicted to drugs will have their rituals, they'll have their cigarette right after they finish it. It's like this this all of it is ritual, and and the way I love about pipe smoking.
SPEAKER_01:It's it's the there's a process, it's kind of slow, it's tedious, and it it's a ritual, yeah.
SPEAKER_00:Yeah, it's why I say when I watch The Passion on Good Friday every year, it is a liturgical act in my home. It's you know, it it is absolutely a liturgy that you're doing with your family and going going through through you know, it's it's a liturgical act in my house when we watch The Passion together as a family. So um, but all of it, like every everything that we're we're fed in, especially with these screens that are always in our faces, everything is a story given to us. So I just liked that that's the approach he took. Like, whoever wrote the script, man, like it was very well written. I don't know. It was none of it, they didn't make Catholicism seem cheesy in any way, in my opinion. And they made the redemption story good. Yeah, like it was it was well done, you know. So I don't know.
SPEAKER_01:And you're right about the lighting. There's quite a few moments throughout the movie where the lighting is is done, you know, perfectly and portrays a message in and of itself.
SPEAKER_00:Yeah, and Father Judd is definitely a Christ figure, you know. It's like through throughout the movie, like there's even this one scene where he's like, um, he's helping Blanc solve the murder, and he goes, I'm not playing this game anymore. Like, I'm not that's not my role. I'm not supposed to be trying to solve this murder because I'm making it about me. He's like, I have to actually go and be a priest. I have to go and be a priest to these people. I don't care about this anymore. If I get stuck with it, I get stuck with it. Whatever. Like, he there's I don't know. I thought it was really well done. Um nobody enjoys a good bourbon, Mississippi.
SPEAKER_04:I wasn't sick right now.
SPEAKER_01:Um, all right, so you know what you know what I remembered over the weekend how what I enjoy?
unknown:Port.
SPEAKER_01:Have you ever had port?
SPEAKER_00:I have, yeah, port wine. I love port. Even bourbon, um, like I know I could get myself to enjoy it. Like it's it's one of those things where when you first try it, you're not crazy about it, but then like the the burning sensation going down, you eventually come to love that, you know.
SPEAKER_01:Not even so I I do not like the burning sensation, but you learn to appreciate the different things you can pick out of it, right? You you can tell you can taste the the vanilla and the the caramel notes from the you know the the the char caramelized wood on the inside of the barrel, and you can tell if they used more corn mash or rye mash, and you just appreciate the craftsmanship that went into it, even if it burns like turpentine going down your throat.
SPEAKER_00:Yeah, I think I would actually uh eventually like that burn. Um I would I think that like it's the same thing with when you first try a zin, it like burns great with chocolate milk. Someone hurt. Um, the the first time I tried Zin, like it burns your gums and then you give you like it burns going down, but now I I look forward to that. You know, it's it's just kind of something that happens. So I think I would eventually like it. Um if you get the burning sensation you're not drinking it correctly. He's right, yeah. Um do you want to do the Shag Bark tweet? Yeah. Let's do the Shag Bark tweet.
SPEAKER_01:Well, do we want to talk about that or or uh we'll do Shag Bark?
SPEAKER_00:We'll do voice of reason after. We'll end the show with voice of reason. But Shag Bark, I I gotta address this guy.
SPEAKER_01:Did did we did you put that tweet? I think so. Yeah, I think I think I did. Let me see. I don't think you did. It's okay. I I can find on Twitter. You just put Shag Bark, the word.
SPEAKER_00:Oh, just to talk about it, yeah. Let me pull it up here. Yeah, he sent me off. Um I saw you reacted to it first, and because I was up at 4 a.m. not being able to breathe. Um, also, yeah, I'll address Tim. I disagree with Tim on that.
SPEAKER_04:Oh what?
SPEAKER_00:Um uh the art of purpose said meant only should you ask your in-laws permission before you marry your wife? And Gordon said only if you plan on only if you plan to live your married life asking for permission for everything. Um, the asking permission thing I think is more just out of respect. Like it's kind of just like the appropriate thing to do. It's that's Pim Gordon.
SPEAKER_01:Pim Gordon? Because it seems to that, yeah. It would seem to be a rejection of the patriarchy to feel that way. I kind of see you're not recognizing the headship of the father over a daughter, right?
SPEAKER_00:Yeah, because she still is under the head of her father before she's married, yeah. And yeah, yeah, I would I I think he's wrong on that. But at the same time, I didn't ask permission, but that was because my wife and I she got pregnant, so it was I didn't ask permission. We went in together and we were like, Well, looks like we're getting married sooner than we thought. So it's a bit of where I didn't actually ask permission, but I do kind of like the the ritual or the tradition of if you want to marry my daughter, you come and ask my permission first. I don't I don't think I don't think I actually have the authority to tell her no. Like I do think if they want to get married, they can or they can just say no, we're getting married. I don't know what to tell you.
SPEAKER_01:I would I would agree with that. Yeah. Um, I so I asked Hope's dad for permission. And he and he gave it willingly right away.
SPEAKER_00:Yeah, it's more just it's more just the courtesy that you're doing. It's like, and if he says no, it's like, well, you know, I did ask, but like I didn't really need the permission, you know.
SPEAKER_01:Like, I'm not um, yeah, you're asking not because you wouldn't do it. You're yeah, you're doing it out of respect. And yeah, it's a sign of if if he had said no, I I you know, I would have said, Well, respectfully, we are going to do it, and I hope you can understand why. And you know, and hopefully this doesn't drive a wedge between you and your daughter and or you and me, things like that, you know.
SPEAKER_00:Yeah, it's a courtesy, it's a courtesy and it's a sign of respect. It's not asking actual permission.
SPEAKER_01:Paul's right, ask for their blessing, not for their permission. Correct.
SPEAKER_00:Yeah, that's yeah, that maybe that's a better way to go. That's a better way to phrase it. Yeah, you ask for their blessing, not their permission.
SPEAKER_01:Yep. Yeah, you you you can even word it, you know, your daughter and I are going to be married, and we would like your blessing.
SPEAKER_00:Yeah.
SPEAKER_01:Right?
SPEAKER_00:Yeah, I think I think the modern way of doing it is you go and ask the father before the wife even before the fiance even knows. Oh, that's how I did it. Yeah, yeah, you go and ask before you even present the question to the girlfriend. Um but like I said, I didn't ask any of them. I kind of told them. So it's a bit hypocritical for me to say that. I kind of just went and I was like, Yeah, guys, I'm gonna be your son-in-law. I don't know what to tell you. But um, yeah, all right, bring up Shag Bark. Um what was the original tweet that he uh that he was responding to? Okay, but one of the one of the legit issues with tradcast is they tend to be in these parish online bubbles where everyone is super smug, comfortable with capitalism and bourgeois comfort. That is such nonsense.
SPEAKER_01:Clearly, don't know tradcasts.
SPEAKER_00:That is such nonsense. The only people I've ever heard talk about usury and the debt, like the problems of capitalism are Trads. I've never heard anyone in Novus Ordo land I was a staunch extreme capitalist until finding traditional Catholicism. The only guys would be like the new polity guys, like, and I don't know where they stand on tradition. Um I don't know if they're traditional Catholics, but those new the new polity guys, they'll talk about capitalism and they'll talk about like the the immorality of even having like pensions or or 401ks and things like that, and how like you're using usury and your your money is making money, you know. You're you're you're basically like the issue with usury is you're trying to make something that's infertile fertile.
SPEAKER_01:You're making something out of nothing, and only God can do that.
SPEAKER_00:Yeah, you're yeah, you're playing God essentially, you're creating money out of not Mike, Mike, RTF Mike is he was the he was probably the one who introduced me to this stuff. So the idea that the trads are not talking about this is absurd. So go go up to Shag Bar's response.
SPEAKER_01:And so VB knives, um he is uh cat because some he is Catholic, I'm pretty sure, but very um like nominally novus orto modernist Catholic. So that coming from him isn't surprising. But seeing this come from Shagbark was pretty uh disappointing.
SPEAKER_00:I truly do not understand why it needs to be this way. I mean, Dorothy Day went to the Latin Mass too, as did St. Francis, but today the TLM is weirdly and inexplicably associated with a deep fetish fetish fetishization of wealth and strong skepticism of Christ's criticism of wealth.
SPEAKER_01:What where the hell is he getting that?
SPEAKER_00:Where? I don't know, man. Like, I don't want to be like the boomer who gets offended when you say something about boomers. Like, maybe that's a thing. I've never come across it.
SPEAKER_01:I guess um I have seen trad cats, you know, um, when say talking about government social welfare programs, say things like, well, Christ told us the poor would always be with us, things like that. And uh and yeah, I would say tradcasts are um generally somewhat against governmental social welfare, but I think that's because we recognize generally speaking, all that. Does is remove the personal responsibility for charity and almsgiving.
SPEAKER_00:Yeah, now I'm giving 40% of my income to the government, and what it leaves me left to tithe with is like ridiculous, you know.
SPEAKER_01:So what's the government gonna do with it? USAID.
SPEAKER_00:Yeah. Yeah, overturn some other government, give it to Planned Parenthood, like the most evil stuff imaginable. So to even suggest that renunciation of wealth or a disinterest in it might merit some consideration in the Christian life will, in some of these circles, elicit a horrified or offended response. They seem to apply many asterisks to any portion of the Christian can canon that would point toward even the mildest critiques of wealth-seeking behavior. This is this is boomer novus ordoism that he's critiquing.
SPEAKER_01:It is, and I think a lot of this comes from his he um he doesn't realize how extreme he is on this.
SPEAKER_00:But dude, we have you know he we have the uh we have our trad way more extreme than him on this, which is bug all like bug hall literally voluntarily chose poverty. The guy has uh a piece of land.
SPEAKER_01:Bug hall was a rich celebrity and gave it all up, whereas Shagberk's always been just a Vagabond drifter, bum. He's just a he's a dumpster diving bum.
SPEAKER_00:Look, I and I I don't want to knock him for that. Like I do kind of respect what he's doing, he's trying to live a sustainable life, and he's choosing not to be caught up in the like keep up with the Jones and stuff. So I'm not gonna criticize him for that.
SPEAKER_01:I agree, but but just because he chooses to have zero cars, yeah, and your average trad family has one you know one uh used paid off you know beater van, that doesn't mean that that family is wealth seeking. It means you just don't give a crap about having a car. Just because you keep your house at 45 degrees Fahrenheit. Well, and one that's just insanity. Like, what the hell?
SPEAKER_00:But um, let's let's finish this thing. So, this leads me to believe that many present-day TLM people have adopted some extra ideas that weren't necessarily prevalent amongst the lady in the pre-conciliate church. That's probably true. Yeah, everyone has. Yeah, we're all modernists in some way. Uh, prior to Vatican II, I'm not sure that it was commonly thought that Catholics have some kind of a moral obligation to get rich. I don't think we do now either.
SPEAKER_01:You're just pulling stuff out of thin air.
SPEAKER_00:This is what I mean. Like, I don't like when guys just make stuff up, like he's just making things up. If anything, I'd imagine the majority of Catholics over time thought something much closer to the contrary, which would be understandable given Christ's teaching on the subject. But no, like you go back to the 13th century and you need a Saint Francis to come around because people were worldly and concerned with money. This is this is at the time when you get you're starting to get out of the aristocracy, and you're starting to get um merchants are building wealth, right? So like Saint Francis's father was a merchant, he wasn't an aristocracy, he wasn't an aristocrat or anything, he just was starting to build wealth, and they were there was anger building towards these people because they weren't noble, yeah. So so like you were getting a middle class starting around this time. Um, and yeah, people were getting caught up in their material possessions. Like, I mean, this has always been the case. I mean, it's something we always have to fight. I don't uh I don't know where he's pulling out that this is a uniquely trad thing, and and that's kind of my gripe with this guy because I do I do I did kind of like him, and some of his writings were decent and some of the things he was saying. But then what happened was he liked the Latin mass. He he started off going east, and then he's like, No, no, no, I you know, I'm coming to the Western Church. He goes to a Latin mass, he falls in love with it, but he can't find a house that he can afford near the parish he loves. Then he finds that he finds the piece of property he wants, and there's no Latin Mass parish around him. So he now has to go to a novus order parish, and he's doing everything he can to cope with that decision and make it like, well, I'm gonna find all the problems in the TLM community. When he'd much rather be at a Latin mass, he'd much rather. He knows that the truth that the novus order he goes to is not what he'd prefer, but he's trying to find reasons that are make it that justify him choosing to live somewhere that doesn't have a traditional liturgy. And this is the this is the cope he's been sending out. Yeah, 100%. Shaggy ghosted you guys too many times. He's on the S list.
SPEAKER_01:Yeah, that too. Yeah, we probably have so many flat tires on your bicycle guy.
SPEAKER_00:We probably would have liked him. It's not look, I'm I'm sure we would like the guy. I just keep getting I get fed up with people straw manning and people's caricatures of Trads. Like it doesn't, I it doesn't I don't see that, so I don't if someone were were to write something like this about the novice orto Catholic Twitter would be up in arms, yeah.
SPEAKER_01:But it's okay to write it, it's okay to accuse Trads of literally anything.
SPEAKER_00:That but things that I've never seen, yeah. This is I've just never seen this attitude. If anything, a lot of the Trads that you see now are younger guys who are doing everything they can to keep their wives home, yeah. So they're like, look at the system that's in place. I mean, I can tell you personally, I think it sucks that I have to go to work 14 hours a day and the freaking commute I gotta deal with. I hate capitalism. I think if there is a better system we could put in place, we should. I'm not gonna say socialism, I'm not gonna say communism, but the idea that we are just slaves to getting building wealth for other sucks, yeah. It sucks. Like, I'm putting I'm giving so much of my life to making my my boss rich while I'm barely squeaking by. I gotta work a second job doing this just to be able to make ends meet. Like, that's no, that's no way to live. I mean it's things. I mean, I I it's just uh you know, I don't know, man. Yeah, rare and l. I'll teach him on it.
SPEAKER_01:Uh I wonder what they're saying that about. No, 401ks are not usury. No, I don't know if they are they often do get invested in very immoral funds.
SPEAKER_00:I I I I just I don't know what the new polity guys said on that. I might have I might have been uh I might I might be misquoting them or something. Um and yeah, the and Shagmark fetishizes poverty. Um I'm gonna become a Mussolini fan once I learn to read. Uh my uncle's the one who's half Irish, not me. I'm a quarter Irish. I work for I work for my mom's brother. So my mom's my mom's mom was Irish. So that makes my uncle more Irish than me. Um all right, so now voice of reason coming back. Um I tried getting through his video. I could I'm I don't want to. I tried getting through it. It is I dude, I it's just like reprehensible. He's he's on there talking about I I want to thank everybody who's been supporting me, but I'm just not sure I can come back. I'm not sure. My spirit, it's a very important we listen to our spiritual fathers, and our spiritual fathers are the ones that we have to listen to. And we I've had a con uh council with my spiritual fathers, and they all said that it's okay that I come back to Patreon and make money still. Like this guy, here's what here's his predicament. He has no other option, he has no other marketable skills, he he has never planned for anything. The guy's 30 years old, he does not know what to do with himself. So he's trying to milk his audience.
SPEAKER_01:He's a failed actor, like that's literally the only other thing he's ever done.
SPEAKER_00:So he's trying to milk his audience for any money he can at this point. He'll never ever be able to be what he once was because he may be able to go on an interview here or there, but they've been non-Catholics interviewing him so far. I don't, I and I think that any Catholic that interviews him needs to needs to face consequences.
SPEAKER_01:Prediction. Lila Rose will be the first Catholic to interview him.
SPEAKER_00:That's probably a fair prediction. That woman has no shame. She does not care who comes after her. If she thinks she can get views out of it, she'll do it.
SPEAKER_01:She had uh a single secular Hollywood celebrity dating uh matchmaker on to talk about Catholic dating.
SPEAKER_00:Who's 30 years old and single?
SPEAKER_01:And we'll set up a man with a man and a woman with a woman.
SPEAKER_00:It'll be Frat at Shapiro's request. I hope not, man.
SPEAKER_01:That's interesting. I hope not.
SPEAKER_00:I hope I hope not. I hope, I really hope not, because I will be all over that. I will be all over that. Like, there's not much you could do to phase Lila.
SPEAKER_01:She just has no her well, her her her money base, it it's unaffected by what we say, right? Like it's a bunch of uh probably non-Catholic feminist women that donate to her.
SPEAKER_00:Dude, what's crazy is you go read through the comments on the video, and they're all like, I love you, Alex. You need to come back. All the people that are all the people saying you shouldn't come back are giving into the despair of Judas. You need to be like Peter and come back, and it's like, do you people not really get what's happening here? Like, this we're talking about these are people who actually don't give a crap about him. Like, if you this guy has been plotting for five months, not not a care in the world about his soul, not a care in the world. All he cares about is his comeback. He's like, I'm in such a good place spiritually right now, I'm in the best place I've ever been spiritually right now. I'm in such a good place spiritually right now, and I I thank God that this happened because I'm in such a good place spiritually right now. It's like, dude, if you're considering coming back, you're not in a good place spiritually. Like this whole thing should have just been abandoned.
SPEAKER_01:Like the man used the Catholic faith faith to drag women to hell with him. Yes, like no, we sure we can forgive it, but we sure as a hell aren't gonna forget that. You can't let him use the faith for that again. He doesn't get that opportunity ever.
SPEAKER_00:No, he should never get it back again, ever. Like, and it's people people have this weird. I think all the guys who support him coming back are guys who have this deep shame about their own. Well, they have their own deep shame about their own sexual sin. Yeah, because they probably wash porn, yeah. But it's like, dude, first off, we're talking about such a difference in degree here. Like, just because you struggle with looking at pornography does not mean he should be able to come back. And I'm sorry, if you do struggle with pornography, you should not be doing what he does. Yep, like if you have if you are dealing with that kind of sin, you have no business discussing the Catholic faith publicly. You really don't, like, if you don't have that under control, I'm sorry, that is a dividing line. Like, you don't get to be up here talking about this stuff if you struggle with that, like that. I'm not saying like never slip up, but like if you're if you're regularly dealing with that, like you do not have I'm trying to rationalize it. Yeah, like there's no rationalizing this. You need to have that under control if you're going to get up here and talk about this stuff.
SPEAKER_01:Not to mention there are still questions as to what exactly happened with an underaged woman.
SPEAKER_00:I even if it wasn't an underage woman, though, like he was, and somebody's saying I felt bad for him after learning he wasn't shagging any of the women just sex thing. I don't know if that's true. Like, I think Yeah, we we can't know that that was true. I don't know if that's true. First of all, I don't trust a word out of the guy's mouth. Like, he's talking about well, my spiritual father said this, my spiritual father said that. Like, I don't even know if he has a spiritual father. Because I don't know what priest is going to tell him, yes, you can still profit off the faith when this happened. Like, I don't understand that. And if they and if he does, that's a terrible priest. Yeah, like is if that that that means that priest does not get my my spiritual confessor who I talked to, he told me that I could come back and do that. Like, what are you even telling him what really happened? I don't I don't get it. I don't I don't get it. Would I interview Voice of Reason for what to what end? To what end? Why would I interview him? I don't understand what the purpose of that would be. What to get views? I don't care that much about views. Honestly, I don't I don't know what end would like what would the end purpose be to interview him. No, I don't have any desire to talk to him. No, but the thing is, he said a long time ago Haskimmu's favorite type of cookie.
SPEAKER_04:Oh my god.
SPEAKER_00:Um, he said a long time ago he was a fornicator, but this recent stuff was just gooning, basically. That's fornication. But besides that, he was in a position of teaching when he was fornicating, too. So clearly he didn't get this stuff. Like, I have no, I have no, I just don't believe anything out of the guy's mouth. He just comes off as a straight up liar to me.
SPEAKER_01:In I honestly question those who did not realize that beforehand. Like, do people literally have no discernment? Like, let's be honest, you and I have basically batted a thousand with the on our criticisms on Lofton, on Voice of Reason, on Lila, on probably Frad. Like, we batted a thousand. Yeah, we're pretty good with this.
SPEAKER_00:I just don't I don't know, man. I don't get people that that want him to come back.
SPEAKER_01:Yeah, why would you even want to? I don't even think he was that effective to begin with.
SPEAKER_00:I don't know, I don't get it. I saw when I when I saw his um uh george janko appearance, I went, this guy will do anything for fame. Yep, he'll do anything for fame and money. Like he just will. He doesn't he doesn't care about anything he claims to care about. This has nothing to do with converting souls, this has to do with his own elevation, you know. It's just I just I don't know, man. I don't I'll tell you, man, I think what what we do is actually amazing in that we say whatever we want, we talk to the most controversial people. Like we have Father Maudsley on, we have we had emj on recently. Like we can talk to anyone about anything, talk about the most controversial stuff, and nobody cares. Nobody cares, like we never get articles written about us. It is actually an amazing position that we're in because we don't uh you've been in Vanity Fair in New York Post, yeah. But not coming after us, like nobody's come after us, nobody's tried to get us banned. That's because we got Mike Lewis watching our backs. It it's more than that, it's that they don't they know they can't get me fired, like they can't get me fired. I work for family, and we don't have donors that they can pressure to whereas like like like you dealing with someone like like uh uh an outfit like Catholic unscripted, they have like more mainstream appeal. There's there's they've had bishops on their show, things like that.
SPEAKER_01:So hey, hey, we've had a bishop on our show.
SPEAKER_00:We had Schneider on, that's true.
SPEAKER_01:But we put button up shirts and everything.
SPEAKER_00:They have there's avenues to put pressure on them, right? So they can have a completely innocuous conversation with Father Maudsley, and they'll still get that pressure because they're they have this air of respectability. Like, we don't have any air of respectability.
SPEAKER_01:We literally put out a video on YouTube publicly where he talks about how the Holocaust wasn't real, and all Ann did was literally edit out the word Holocaust.
SPEAKER_00:No, I didn't even left that in. The only thing I edited out of the Maudsley interview was he said we really need to give a deeper look into Joseph Mengele. He probably wasn't that bad of a guy.
SPEAKER_01:Okay, yeah, yeah, yeah. Oh, yeah, okay.
SPEAKER_00:I love Father Maudsley. That is literally the only it was a one-second edit. That's it, and I left everything else in. And I didn't even, I was like, you know what? Here's what happened with that.
SPEAKER_01:You guys should have heard Ant. He's like, I'm gonna spend the whole day today editing the Father Maudsley clip, you know, making sure we can put it up on YouTube. One second edit.
SPEAKER_00:I took 1.5 seconds out where he just said that comment about Mangala. And the here's what I here's what happened. I I had said to the last time we spoke to Maudsley, um, he I said to him, Yeah, I'm just a little worried about what the what the you know, I'm a little afraid of what what we're allowed to put on YouTube anymore. And he goes, Fear is of the devil, don't worry about fear, just you know, just just worry about love. And I was like, Okay.
SPEAKER_01:And more or less said the same thing to EMJ. So so right before that interview in EMJ.
SPEAKER_00:So that was the last time I spoke with Maudley. He said, Don't don't fear, don't, don't have fear. He said, he said, and then he privately told me, he said, um, he said, uh, man, I wish I could remember exactly how he said it, but he said, uh, I because I had said this, that like I had said that I'm not really concerned with our show getting big, like, I don't really care what happens with our show. Um, I'm not looking to be uh like a an e-celeb or something like that. And he said, I think you should focus less on keeping your show small and just focus more on just speaking the truth and just say the truth. And if you're and if God wants to bless your show, he'll bless your show. If you if he wants you to stay small, you'll stay small, but just leave it all in God's hands. But the main thing he said to me was don't never fear, fear is of the devil, just worry about charity. And then when we interviewed EMJ in the green room, I said the same thing to him about worrying about like I was like, I'm afraid like what we could get away with on YouTube, so we'll do the JQ on the other side. And EMJ said to me, Fear is of the devil, only have charity. And I was like, and it kind of just hit me. And I was like, man, all right. So then I knew I was going away, and I said to Rob, I was like, let's just throw the Maudsley interview up. Like, it is what it is. Let's just let's just throw it up. And I was going to listen to the entire thing and edit out any Holocaust references or stuff like that. And I was like, I'm not even gonna do that. The one mengala thing I thought was like, I don't know. I probably could have gotten away with leaving that in, but he straight up says, at the first three seconds of the interview, I asked him, I was like, So why did you uh what why did you lose your account? He goes, Well, somebody said um that the Holocaust has been weaponized against us, and I said, Yes, but the Holocaust narrative itself is a fabrication. Like, that's the first thing he says in the interview, and I left that in. I didn't delete that out, I left that in. And so far, the interview is still up.
SPEAKER_01:No, you know, Rob didn't monetize it, so it's um keep some of the YouTube auto sensors off of it when you don't do that.
SPEAKER_00:Yeah, when you when you monetize a video, they put like extra sensors on it to make sure they don't put advertisers on it and stuff. So Rob didn't monetize it. We didn't put it up there for money. I just put it up because I thought it's kind of it's kind of not right to keep it behind a page. Well, it's a good conversation and people should hear it.
SPEAKER_01:So I just because Maudsley himself can't put it out publicly anymore. And there's very few people willing to do it forums. And you know what? Maybe we should be the ones to do it.
SPEAKER_00:So it got 22,000 on YouTube, and I think it got another 4,000 over on Rumble because we put it there first. Yeah. It got like 4,000 on Rumble, and I'm like, that's a Maudsley interview. That should have way more than that. So put it on YouTube. It's at 22,000 right now, man. Which is pretty cool. Because the more people introduced him, the better. Uh yeah, it's uh uh let's see. The YouTube video is gonna do terrible tonight.
SPEAKER_01:It is, it really is.
SPEAKER_00:Somebody asked uh did Anthony post a video giving his brother that fundraiser money. I didn't post a video of it, so my brother got a car and he's got his um he's got the the new boiler and everything, everything's all done. It snowed here, it's got like eight inches of snow. I think it's supposed to be like 50, 60 degrees this weekend. I think maybe Sunday morning I'm gonna pop by his house and do a little something with him. I'll video a little something that'd be cool. Putting a little thank you out there for everybody. Jeffy says um show his new car.
SPEAKER_01:Bohr's comeback video was monetized. Of course it was. Of course it was.
SPEAKER_00:That's all he's trying to do is monetize everything he can right now.
SPEAKER_01:Whereas we literally put our whole channel at risk for no monetization.
SPEAKER_00:Uh, what are the best sources for deconstructing the Holocaust narrative? It's tough nail stuff down, uh tough, tough to nail stuff down these days because of search. I would just get EMJ's Holocaust narrative.
SPEAKER_01:It's what a four-volume thing or something like that.
SPEAKER_00:Where is that Jewish revolutionary spirit? Jewish revolutionary spirit is, but the Holocaust narrative is just the you can just get that.
SPEAKER_01:You know, and it's it's one of those things like it might be another hundred years before there's honest good information out there. Like I still think we're we're too close to it, yeah. Timeline wise, to really to really know. I don't know.
SPEAKER_00:I think that um I don't know, man. Like I said, I'm pretty sure there were no gas chambers. Like I just I'm pretty sure that there were no gas chambers.
SPEAKER_01:When when mode that all of the so-called death camps ended up somehow only being on the Soviet side of the line in the end, you know, it's almost like they were covering up their crimes by blaming them on the Nazis, yeah. Yeah, because like two million Germans did die in forced population transfers from East to West Germany after the war, and then you know, I think it's something like 80 percent of German women between ages of like eight and eighty were raped by the Soviets, by the Soviets, like they literally just flooded their DNA with Russian DNA, yeah. They they basically if you think about how in the 30s prominent Jews in Germany were talking about how the German race had to be destroyed. The Soviets basically accomplished that with the mass rape of German women.
SPEAKER_00:Yeah, when IMJ came on and he was like Benedict should have gone to um where did he go? Where did he give that speech? The uh what was the what was the Benedict speech where he talks about the Muslims? Regensburg? Uh when he goes to Regensburg address, he should have gone in and just said, Where are the gas chambers? Like it's like there is zero chance Benedict ever would have done that, but it would have been amazing. It would have changed everything. Where are the gas chambers? Um yeah, uh, all right. I mean, all right, so I also started speaking to um the pilgrimage company. Okay. And we kind of gave like a uh nothing's hammered out yet, like we didn't figure out pricing yet or anything, but gave him an idea of what we want to do, and we're gonna do Rome. Uh, and then we're gonna go to Sorrento because no pilgrimage ever goes to Sorrento. Sorrento. It's on the Amalfi coast. We're gonna hit the island of Capri. We're gonna go to Pompeii, go check Pompey out, and then uh then we're gonna work our way back up to Assisi. So we'll figure out how that's gonna work out. We'll I'll talk to Rob behind the scenes, see if Rob's going to be able to come. I don't know if you'll I don't know how you'll be able to. That's I don't know, man. It's like you're like Hope could be pregnant again.
SPEAKER_01:Hope could be giving birth again.
SPEAKER_00:Yeah, it's that far, it's that far away enough, you know. Like she could you could you we don't know where you'll be at that time, so we'll have to figure that out. But um, what are we making a I don't play Minecraft?
SPEAKER_01:Rob might you can join the uh our art my arc lobby.
SPEAKER_00:What is I don't have no idea what you guys are talking about. Um yeah, more details to come on the pilgrimage, and uh I don't know. I think we're gonna wrap this one up. And then all right, so Thursday we have um uh what are we doing Thursday? Mike Church. Mike Church at seven, and then we'll do a local show over here. I'll get some good stuff to talk about over here. We'll go from there.
SPEAKER_04:Sounds good.
SPEAKER_00:All right, we'll see you guys next time.
SPEAKER_04:That's the gun outro. Here we go.
