Protestants Team Up with Kosher Catholics to Attack Scott Hahn

A husband posts that his wife “was formerly promiscuous” and he “was a virgin,” and somehow we’re all expected to nod along like it’s spiritual content. That moment opens a bigger problem we can’t ignore: testimony culture is starting to look like confession-as-branding, where past sin becomes a credential and conversion becomes a content strategy.

We dig into what this does to the moral imagination, especially for younger Christians who grew up trying to live faithfully. When dramatic stories get rewarded, it quietly teaches that holiness is boring and that wreckage is a prerequisite for meaning. We talk about repentance versus performance, the temptation toward antinomian thinking, and why public scandal isn’t erased by a quick “sorry” when real harm was done.

Then we pivot to the political-theology fight blowing up online: Catholic integralism, natural law, religious liberty, and why figures like Scott Hahn are suddenly getting name-dropped as threats on mainstream shows. We react to the Eric Metaxas clip with James Lindsay and John Zmirak, clarify what integralism actually claims about the relationship between temporal power and spiritual authority, and challenge the “we don’t impose morality” line that collapses the moment you remember that every law encodes a moral vision.

We also connect the dots to the convert boom narrative, Zionism pressure, Gaza framing, and the way “anti-Semitism” gets used as a debate-ending weapon. We read and respond to public statements in the Carrie Prejean Boller controversy and Bishop Robert Barron’s response, emphasizing the need to condemn real racism while refusing to treat all criticism of Israel, Judaism, or public behavior as hatred. If you want clearer categories, sharper definitions, and less propaganda in Christian discourse, this one is for you. Subscribe, share the show, and leave a review, then tell us what you think: where should Christians draw the line in public speech?

Transcript

Cold Open On Oversharing

SPEAKER_01 0:13

Dear X. My wife was formerly promiscuous. I was a virgin.

SPEAKER_00 0:25

Daddy, why did you tell everyone that mommy used to be a one day you will understand?

SPEAKER_07 0:36

I made Taffy. I'm glad you made a show. Like like Taffy, my mom watches the show, dude.

SPEAKER_04 0:45

I saw the original. I'm like, oh, can we use?

SPEAKER_07 0:47

I don't know, another word. Okay. Well, to give people context who aren't on Twitter all day, um, this guy, like, that's not even an exaggeration. This guy decided he was going to just tell everyone that his wife was promiscuous. Bring bring up the tweet. I sent it to I sent it to Telegram. Um, because we have to, before we get so here's actually before you even bring it up, we're going to do a short segment on here tonight. We're going to discuss uh Eric Metaxas had um uh James Lindsay and John Zmirak on his show, and they were discussing integralism, and they brought up Scott Hahn.

SPEAKER_04 1:27

So we're gonna discuss that, but I have we have a ton of absolutely retarded when it comes to integralism.

SPEAKER_07 1:33

Yeah, we have a um a ton of topics that we want to talk about tonight, but we can't do them on YouTube for copyright reasons and just for subject matter. So we're gonna do a short segment on YouTube tonight, and then we're gonna jump over to locals. We haven't done a good locals in a little while. Uh, Rob was out last week. This is the first time getting us back together in a couple days.

SPEAKER_04 1:52

Oh, yeah, yeah.

SPEAKER_07 1:54

So um, yeah, it'll be a short YouTube, and then we're gonna head over to locals. Saturday, we have Father Maudsley on. Um, and that'll be 8 a.m. That's gonna be on locals only at first.

SPEAKER_04 2:06

And if you guys have never seen a Father Maudsley Holy Week video, they're good.

SPEAKER_07 2:11

Yeah, yeah, very good. So we'll discuss the liturgy, especially before Palm Sunday. You'll want to check that out. So uh locals, if you guys aren't members yet and you go join, you're gonna get a good segment tonight. You'll get a good segment Thursday night, and then Saturday we got Father Maudsley on.

SPEAKER_04 2:25

Um locals might not be working tonight.

SPEAKER_07 2:29

You're kidding me, we have to have locals.

SPEAKER_04 2:31

Well, um, so I someone's saying locals isn't coming up due to a cloud flare issue, but it's coming up for me, so I think I don't know.

Testimony Culture And Purity Confusion

SPEAKER_07 2:40

That's that person specifically. Yeah, hopefully. Uh let me bring the locals chat up. Uh anyway, so um, all right, so yeah, this guy decides he's going to put this post on. So I want to just discuss purity. I mean, uh uh um what do you what would you even call this? What kind of culture is this in in evangelical world?

SPEAKER_04 3:02

I don't I mean it's it's not purity culture, right? No, it's testimony culture, yeah. Testimonials.

SPEAKER_07 3:08

They love their testimonies. Wait, yeah, I'm seeing I'm seeing host error on locals. When you go to locals, I got I got in fine, but I'm seeing host error. Oh, there it goes. Just re just uh redo the uh thing. Okay, so yeah, this testimonial culture in in evangelicalism is just getting out of hand. Like if you if you're on Twitter or actually you'll see people like that girl Lizzie talking about how she was a former stripper, and it's like they they can't get enough of telling people about their past, and it's not coming off even as like Jesus saved me from this life, it's almost like bragging about their past sins, and it's it's very strange.

SPEAKER_04 3:52

It's um it has a flavor of like antinomialism to it, like to where they this is everybody's having a problem with locals.

SPEAKER_07 4:01

We need locals tonight.

SPEAKER_04 4:03

Oh man, of all because you last Tuesday you didn't go over to locals at all.

SPEAKER_07 4:08

Yeah, I did with Sam Shamoon. Yeah, we did. You no, you did not, man. Yeah, we did like 15 minutes of it that we talked about.

SPEAKER_04 4:13

Oh, you're right, you're right, it was very short. And then Thursday you didn't go over at all.

SPEAKER_07 4:18

Correct. But this isn't this is locals in general, it's not just our channel not coming up. Locals is down right now.

SPEAKER_04 4:26

Well, you know, they're talking about escalating the war in the Middle East, too. So who knows? Maybe that ran got us.

SPEAKER_07 4:35

Um man, I alright. I mean, I guess we're gonna get pinched with a copyright.

SPEAKER_04 4:41

Well, we we have a couple subjects to talk about. Let's just talk about them and then we'll see what's going on.

SPEAKER_07 4:46

Um, all right. All right, if you guys figure that out, I have the I have the tweet. Okay, so pull the tweet up. So this is what this guy does now. And and I have to say, this isn't unique to evangelical culture, it is very prevalent in it, but this is something similar to what Jason Everett used to do with his wife. Like Jason Everett and his wife would get on stage, and Jason Everett would get up and be like, I was a virgin, and I never did anything, and my wife was uh floozy, and it's just bizarre, but at least that was pre-internet. But like this guy comes out and he's like, my wife was formerly promiscuous, I was a virgin. She was then radically born again, committed to church, evangelized constantly, Puritan books in her bedroom, prayer journals, grief over past sexual sin, etc. We got to know each other well for over a year, dated for four months, engaged for two and a half, and and didn't send this. What do you think he even means by that? Like, this is just just dude, these guys all need locals. You don't brag about your past sentence unless you have a locals membership. You got a point.

SPEAKER_04 5:52

You say too different from what you do on locals.

SPEAKER_07 5:57

But it's a very small audience, it's not open for the public, it's for like a very small audience. It's uh it's on stuff that I think will like help people, you know. Never mind, I'm on this guy's side now.

SPEAKER_06 6:08

You weirdos, man. Oh, dude, this is crazy. It's freezing my entire computer up. Uh, this is not good.

SPEAKER_07 6:17

Um, there we go. Um, yeah, it's just really strange, and it's like I see it everywhere. I see it with Chad. Chad's like bragging about his former methodic. It's like I mean, there are times when I'm when I'm sure that stuff is helpful for people, right? But I wonder what it does to the younger generation who's raised in a Christian home who does it's almost like they're setting these kids up to think they have to go and commit these horrific sins in order to have a meaningful conversion. It's really strange.

SPEAKER_04 6:54

I yeah, I really don't understand it, other than um, like I said earlier, it seems like antinomial in the in so much as like they don't really believe like a moral law applies to them as long as you know they say their little altar calls and and whatnot.

SPEAKER_07 7:13

It's what we're watching with Elijah Schaefer right now. Elijah Schaefer goes and does that horrific thing with Sarasak, and he comes up and he's like, I'm orthodox now, guys. I apologize. I said sorry to God, that's all that's required of me. It's like this really strange thing where people think they can commit these really public heinous acts and then just oh I I repent it.

SPEAKER_04 7:32

They what what it is is it's they're taking advantage of whatever little remnants of a Christian Christian culture we have to use conversion as a get-out-of-jail free card.

SPEAKER_07 7:45

Yeah, yeah. I mean, it's no different, like to me, Elijah Schaefer is no different than Nala Ray, and Nala Ray appalled all of us, right? Like she went from being an OnlyFans girl to then jumping on and actually selling selling like uh a biblical ministry or something, and that's basically what Elijah.

SPEAKER_04 8:02

I think Elijah Schaefer's words, he destroyed the family he was given responsibility for.

SPEAKER_07 8:07

Yeah, his own and and another one. And that's true, too. Yeah, he destroyed two marriages.

SPEAKER_04 8:13

No, Nala probably destroyed plenty too, but in a less direct sort of way, I would say.

SPEAKER_07 8:19

Yeah. Um, so yeah, Taffy, you kind of derailed us uh this episode. I'm hoping, all right. So, what everybody's saying is if you have the locals app, the locals app works, but it's not working on people's laptops. Um, so if you are a locals member, just go to the app and the app is working fine.

SPEAKER_04 8:38

It's working on my laptop, but yeah, weird.

Stream Logistics And Locals Problems

SPEAKER_07 8:44

Yeah, all right, either way. All right, so so I came across this show the other day. Actually, uh it was mentioned on when I had um uh uh what's his name on Catholic Esquire on. He had mentioned the show to me and I was like, I'll go check it out. Play the shorter clip. Uh, I put like a 35-second clip in there. Let's play that real quick.

SPEAKER_04 9:04

So okay, that is the one you just sent me.

SPEAKER_07 9:07

Yeah, the one I just sent in. Let's play that one first, and then you probably got to download the other one because it's a pretty long one. I don't think we'll get through that whole clip, but this just stood out to me. It was really strange.

SPEAKER_04 9:16

So, who's the guy on the right?

SPEAKER_07 9:18

So the guy on the right is John Zmirak. Now, John Zmirak, uh he's he used to be pretty well known in like the church militant circles and stuff. He was he's a writer. Um he's Catholic. He is Catholic, yeah. And he it it's I'm telling you, man, like we started talking about this when we saw the um the Phylos Project or the Phylos Project coming out. Like me and you kind of just saw that. We're like, this is weird, man. Like, there's gonna be some kind of divide coming forward in the church. And this is the this is where people are, these are the fault lines. You saw today, Daily Wire put out an article saying there's uh something about Catholic converts, right?

SPEAKER_04 10:00

Well, like, yeah, there's mass new converts to the Catholic Church, but they they said like, but here's what's weird about it, or something like that.

SPEAKER_07 10:08

Um, I should try to find that. Uh we should try to find that because take a look here real quick. Um because somebody posted, I'm sorry, guys, just give us a second. This is stuff I probably should have lined up before we started. I didn't know this is exactly where we're gonna go. Well, Rob, why don't we play the clip while you're looking for it? Okay.

SPEAKER_04 10:34

Okay, here's a clip.

SPEAKER_02 10:36

We can keep a moral society without getting into religious civil war. And there are signs of religious civil war out there. Uh, on the one hand, these Catholic integralists, one of them is Scott Hahn, this very popular Catholic, uh popular theologian, uh Adrian Vermule, a professor at Harvard, Patrick Denine, a professor at Notre Dame. They want the government to back the one true religion, and and some of them want to outlaw Protestant churches.

SPEAKER_01 11:05

Okay, and I just want to say what we're talking about is fundamentally un-American. Yes, ladies and gentlemen. So, okay, so just think about what he's saying there.

SPEAKER_07 11:16

Like, of all the of all the dividing lines, to pick Scott Hahn as the dividing line is a very strange thing, right? Like, yeah, um I'm I'm telling you guys, I think I think some people are more wise to this than that than people realize. Like, um when I tell you that Scott Hahn is the one who sent me down this path of constantly talking about the older brother stuff, that is where I started going down this road.

SPEAKER_04 11:44

I I think he gets mentioned more often than you would think by the other side. Because those on the other side that know him know what he probably thinks privately, right?

SPEAKER_07 11:54

But Han is Han was like Catholic royalty in in Normi Catholic world. It's so strange to me. I I can't even fathom like the guy doesn't say anything publicly. It's it's really strange. So bring if you bring up a feels like your antithesis, yeah. Like I say everything. Scott Hahn is so guarded, he doesn't really say anything. But I think that I mean, it could you never know because people don't like to say our names, but it could have been we kind of let people onto it with our Gavin Ashenden Scott Hahn stream. I think more people came across that than we realized, where we were because when it comes to that with that clip I took from it and put it on uh Twitter that everyone uh screenshot it and didn't link to me. Yeah, yeah, I got a few hundred thousand views. And I think I think that that show kind of went bigger than we uh than we expected, and people are picking up because this issue they're gonna frame it like it's about Catholic integralism, but it's not really, it's about Zionism, it's about support for Israel. And it it's the same thing with the Daily Wire issue, it's the same reason Daily Wire is bringing Matt Fratt over there. So we'll play the longer clip and we'll get into it, and they kind of explain it a little bit deeper, but it is just bizarre to me how Scott Hahn is the guy's nick, the guy whose name because he because they're talking about Nick Fuentes in this clip, they're talking about all these controversial figures, and then Zmirak throws in Scott Hahn in there. It was really odd to me.

SPEAKER_04 13:24

Here's the uh Daily Wire article from today.

SPEAKER_07 13:28

Okay, so uh the Catholic convert boom is real, but a troubling pattern is emerging. Now, somebody sent me like a segment of that article. Um that's what I was hoping to find. Um we play this clip, I'll listen and I'll see if I can find that.

SPEAKER_04 13:50

You wanted me to find something someone sent you.

SPEAKER_07 13:53

No, no, no, no, no, no. I wanted you to find that, but there's somebody sent me it like a screenshot of because you got it's behind a paywall. Yeah, that's behind a paywall.

SPEAKER_04 14:02

So I think it's funny that Metaxis in that clip has uh well, I suppose it's his own book on Bonhoeff on his desk. Like the the dude's yeah, dude wrote a book about like a non-trinitarian heretic, and here he is telling us what real Christianity is.

SPEAKER_07 14:19

Are you yeah, it's uh Metaxis is one of the worst, but it's and he was on the show with him. He was uh like like that's what I mean by like the Daily Wire is platforming a lot of these guys, and they're and they're just trying to push this Catholicism through.

SPEAKER_04 14:36

Am I freezing? Is Anthony's audio going weird for everyone? Yeah, your internet seems iffy for me.

SPEAKER_07 14:48

I'm thinking that might be I don't know if it's the internet or if it's my locals.

SPEAKER_05 14:52

Well, close out locals, you don't need it right now.

SPEAKER_07 14:55

I'm trying. Oh, there it goes. Okay. Okay, yeah. All right, let's play this clip and let's see if uh maybe I can find that thing.

SPEAKER_04 15:03

Hold on, what what clip now?

SPEAKER_07 15:05

The longer clip would Zmirack.

SPEAKER_04 15:10

So from a few days ago at this point?

SPEAKER_07 15:12

Yeah, I think it was yesterday I popped it in. There's like a five-minute long clip.

SPEAKER_04 15:21

Oh, okay.

SPEAKER_07 15:28

Yeah, when you sometimes when we put videos in like a while ago, they have to be like re-downloaded.

SPEAKER_04 15:33

There we go.

SPEAKER_01 15:37

Catholic integralism. You are a Catholic. Tell us what it is.

SPEAKER_02 15:41

Sure. Um, I first identified this back in 2013, and I wrote an article called Wait, pause it for one second, Rob.

SPEAKER_07 15:48

What you're gonna see here is Mirac, the Catholic, give a horrible explanation for what Catholic integralism is, and then James Lindsay give an accurate description of what it is, which is really bizarre.

SPEAKER_02 16:00

Catholicism. Illiberal Catholicism, you can look it up. I warned everything that's happening now with the division between Catholics and Protestants, with the hostility towards Israel and the conspiratorial madness, uh, the splintering of the pro-life movement and the pro-family movement. I warned about all of it back in 2013 in this article, illiberal Catholicism. Illiberal Catholicism. I can make otherwise known as Catholicism. It's nuts. The integralist movement pretty simple. It's Catholic Sharia. That's it. Catholic Sharia. Now, how does it let's unpick it?

SPEAKER_07 16:43

Somebody's saying they look the same. Dude, that's not even an exaggeration. They literally look like the same person. It's strange.

SPEAKER_05 16:51

Yeah.

SPEAKER_07 16:52

Like they look like the same person with one with less hair and a little older.

SPEAKER_02 16:59

For for decades, the pro-life, pro-family movement has been ecumenical. Catholics, Protestants, some Orthodox Jews. I remember being with Operation Rescue. I've got to include these wonderful Orthodox Jews outside abortion clinics in Manhattan. That's how I spent the 90s with Operation Rescue. Um, what we basically agreed on was the American founding did not establish one given church, but it did propose to base our positive laws on natural law. Natural law is the truths, the moral truths that we can know by reason alone. A lot of it's echoed in the Bible. Most of the Ten Commandments are natural law. Natural law is something that you can be known by reason alone. Abortion is wrong, same-sex marriage is wrong. There are two sexes, just count them two. Uh, children should obey their parents.

SPEAKER_07 17:55

You sounded pretty Catholic Sharia to me too, though. But but not even that. It's this is like such a a neocon, like older MAGA mindset where it's like, as long as you say there's two genders, we're good. It's like they just it's like the lowest bar imaginable. It's like, okay, I'm pro-life, and there's two genders, and that's all they really care about. Everything else is like don't send women to prison for abortion, though. That's too far. Yeah, that's too far. We don't, we wouldn't, we wouldn't want to punish a murderer for their crime. But this is it's funny, but and wait until Lindsay gets into it because Lindsay actually describes accurately what Catholic integralism actually is.

SPEAKER_02 18:38

All the basic principles. Thomas Aquinas wrote that all positive law should be based on natural law. Martin Luther King made this same argument. The Nuremberg trials were based on the principle that just because Germany passed a law saying Jews didn't get citizenship and inter and marriage between Jews and Gentiles was wrong, those laws were null and void because they violated natural law. The law God wrote on the human.

SPEAKER_04 19:06

Martin Luther King participated in rape of women, so I don't know if he knew much about the natural law, man.

SPEAKER_02 19:11

Human heart, which St. Paul said he put there so that the Gentiles would be without excuse. The pro-life movement, the pro-family movement, the marriage movement was all based on natural law. And Catholics, we kind of pioneered most of the natural law arguments. Gradually, evangelicals started to follow us, and instead of quoting the Bible to make a point, they would quote, they would make natural law arguments from reason alone. What the what the Catholic integralists want to do, they want to base positive laws on dogma, on divine revelation, on statements by the Pope. Imagine that we want laws based on divine law.

SPEAKER_04 19:55

That's just crazy. Like, do you hear this guy's Catholic?

SPEAKER_07 19:59

No, not really. This, but that you know what I mean. Like, but that's yes, you're a hundred percent right. He's not really Catholic. Like the this he could be a bishop, he'd be a great bishop. Yes, exactly. He'd be a great Novizor bishop. This is something that when you especially when you read the early church, what you see is um you you get Catholics into positions of government, and that's how you start forming the the proper order of the state, is where you get Catholics into positions of authority in the government and they act on Catholic principles.

SPEAKER_04 20:33

Yeah.

SPEAKER_07 20:34

And he and he's saying he doesn't want like these guys, man. I'll tell you, I like I used to not get the religious liberty argument from the SSPX because I was looking at it from an American perspective, and I was like, I was like, well, no, you you know, you kind of got to have religious liberty because we as Catholics want to be left to to to worship as Catholics. But what really happened is it took the church putting that out for the borders to be opened worldwide. Like the like the almost like the Western nations couldn't do it until the church gave permission. They're like, so like so the church goes, so goes the world. As the church goes, so goes the world. That's kind of what happened, where the church puts out this statement on religious liberty, and that all of a sudden gives permission for these these uh uh the unification of synagogue and state to then open the borders and just pour in Muslims. What's crazy is the same people who told you to let Muslims pour into your country are now trying to convince us that Muslims can't coexist in a Christian nation in Western Western society. It's really these these are the guys who are telling you about religious liberty and ecumenism, are all of a sudden going to flip it on you and tell you, no, no, no, but what about Islam? It's like this is the problem with religious liberty. It's one thing when you're talking about a couple of different Protestant sects and you're like, all right, yeah, separation of church and state, but all of a sudden you let Muslims and Hindus and Indians in, and it's a disaster.

SPEAKER_04 22:01

You gotta read this one.

SPEAKER_07 22:02

I might have to reconsider my kosher hot dog business for some reason, and hasn't been very popular with the target audience. Um, I want to get into Lindsay, Lindsay, because he actually describes it properly.

SPEAKER_04 22:13

I don't know if I was gonna say, I I don't even know where uh this guy's going at this point.

SPEAKER_07 22:18

Yeah, he's he's just totally upset that Catholics are Catholic.

SPEAKER_02 22:25

The Pope interpreting the Bible. That is crossing the line. That is creating the kind of system the that the Puritans fled England to get away from. That's creating that's Americanism.

SPEAKER_05 22:37

He is so stupid. The Puritans fled England to get away from Anglicanism.

SPEAKER_07 22:43

Anglicans, yeah.

SPEAKER_05 22:46

Plus, I'm Catholic. What do I care why the Puritans did anything?

SPEAKER_07 22:50

These I'm telling you, man. This is well, he's look, he's on a Protestant show and he's trying to kiss up to the Protestant, and and it's just but all of this has to do with Zion. This is just has to do with Zionism, dude. This doesn't have to do with anything else. You just always when when these guys are talking, just understand that all this is about is Israel. It's the same thing with James Lindsay and his woke right nonsense, just has to do with support for Israel. That's all this comes down to.

SPEAKER_04 23:16

Yeah, this guy got his history from that uh Timu Chinese professor that that guy, they just they're just forcing him down everyone's freaking throat. Which is funny because all he did he just has a bachelor's bachelor's degree in English.

SPEAKER_07 23:27

That's all. He's just a conspiracy theorist who wants to start his own religion at this point. That's what the guy said. So, all right, let's finish this up.

SPEAKER_02 23:41

The church they can't ever help but tell on themselves, can they? Yeah, said religious liberty is fundamentally a human right. That religious liberty is part of the natural law. No, it's not that laws impinging on people's religious freedom are actually sinful in themselves. No, this was a big admission for the church because the early church supported religious liberty right up until after Constantine converted the Roman Empire to Christianity. Horrible, horrible history.

SPEAKER_07 24:16

Religion, religious liberty in that you can't force conversions, maybe like you can't you can't force baptize people, like people have to come to God freely. It really is funny. They all tell them themselves.

SPEAKER_04 24:29

This screed by him should just destroy any credibility he has in the Catholic Church. It really should. What an what a total imbecile. Oh my gosh.

SPEAKER_02 24:40

His successor, Theodosius, went a step further and banned pagan religion and punished Jews and made Catholicism mandatory.

SPEAKER_01 24:53

Okay, just to be clear, so people are tracking, the word for what we're talking about, essentially, ladies and gentlemen, is theocracy. Theocracy These people don't even know what a theocracy is.

SPEAKER_06 25:05

Oh my goodness.

SPEAKER_05 25:06

Theocracy is rule by priest.

SPEAKER_01 25:10

Means that you uh and this is what the the the secular legislature is never been a Catholic theocracy, by the way.

SPEAKER_07 25:17

No, never ever has there been a Catholic theocracy.

SPEAKER_04 25:20

Well the Papal States would technically be okay.

SPEAKER_07 25:23

Yeah, yeah, yeah. You're right. Yeah, yeah. Sorry.

SPEAKER_04 25:25

Yes, right, because it is the Pope having temporal rule. But that's correct. But that's it.

SPEAKER_07 25:30

But I but what I meant was like in Europe, those were never theocracies. No, those those were like the the secular being subordinate to the religious. That's all that was. It was that you know in a in a proper setup, the secular is subordinate to the religious, and the secular owes like fealty to Christ the king. That's all that's all the Catholic principle is, is that it doesn't matter like where what country you're in or what who what what kind of government you have, every ruler owes fealty to Christ the king, right?

SPEAKER_04 26:04

And should model laws after divine and natural law, so on and so forth, but that it is their prerogative, their sphere of influence, the the the secular life is their sphere of correct, you know, power, yeah, not not the church's sphere of sphere of power.

SPEAKER_07 26:21

Yeah. All right, let's let's finish this out. I can't believe we made it this far. What I can't believe we made it this far. This is hard to say. I have to get to James Lindsay because I it's crazy how much better he is at explaining this.

SPEAKER_04 26:35

Look at the phase of Mataxis right there.

SPEAKER_01 26:38

Of that, oh, you you want to impose your beliefs on others, and those of us who are Christians say, No, we don't want to impose our beliefs on others. Yes, we do.

SPEAKER_07 26:50

We do. This is this is something like what is it with Christians and being afraid to say no? We want to impose our morality in our law. Every single law is a moral code, yeah. If you if you have a law against theft, it's a moral code. We absolutely want to impose our morality in law. I don't get how people don't understand this. There's nothing wrong. We don't want to impose, no, we don't want to force you to be Catholic. We're not gonna force you to convert and become Catholic, but you will live by the moral code of the Catholic Church because the Catholic Church is just describing what actual morality is, and they're lying, anyways.

SPEAKER_04 27:26

They do they they do want to impose their moral code on us, they want to impose Zionism upon us.

SPEAKER_07 27:32

Yes, they don't want us to impose ours on them, is what you're saying.

SPEAKER_01 27:37

Uh, in religious liberty, we believe I believe what I believe is true, but it doesn't mean that I want to impose it. There's certain things I can impose. Murder is wrong. That's not I'm not gonna ask you your opinion on that, but there are many other things that we have to be um liberal about in the best sense of the thing.

SPEAKER_02 27:55

The way to draw the line, can you make the arguments for this based on natural law, based on reason? You can prove that slavery is based on natural law. You can prove that men and women are only eligible for marriage to each other based on natural law. You can quote the Bible if you want to, but you're not going to persuade non-believers. So, what you need to do is make these arguments based on human nature, human flourishing. These are the ways we can keep a moral society without getting into religious civil war.

SPEAKER_04 28:25

Human flourishing. That's that's that that's the exact line that that uh that gay Israeli um uh Harari uses in all of his books.

SPEAKER_05 28:37

Human flourishing.

SPEAKER_07 28:38

That's all he's he's using this crazy language because I hope I even recorded Lindsay's explanation. I'm certainly I'm not sure I did. So I mean Lindsay is sitting there like adult right now, but what he I we'll finish it out. I'll if he didn't, I'll explain what he says.

SPEAKER_02 28:55

Okay, and there are signs of religious civil war out there. Uh, on the one hand, these Catholic integralists, one of them is Scott Hahn, this very popular Catholic, uh popular theologian. Uh Adrian Vermule, a professor at Harvard, Patrick Denine, a professor at Notre Dame. They want the government to back the one true religion, and and some of them want to outlaw Protestant churches. Oh, yeah.

SPEAKER_07 29:21

So, all right, so Lindsay ends up getting it, which I didn't even cut the clip and I don't even care to hear about it.

SPEAKER_04 29:25

I'm glad we watched five and a half minutes read that.

SPEAKER_07 29:26

I thought he was gonna get to it. He ends up going, well, no, actually, that's not what integralism is. Integralism is actually that the temporal is subordinate to the spiritual, which that's what integralism is, right? It's like the temporal order needs to be subordinate to the spiritual, which is basically the order of Christendom. So the temporal order of of the king, they like they couldn't just make laws that were contrary to divine law. You can't, like, and and the way the the way Zmirak is what a disgrace of a man, and it's crazy that he'll get the backing of these bishops because this all comes down to this whole incident we just saw go down with Carrie Pehan and all this stuff, it's all interconnected. So I guess maybe we should read. Um, well, first off, I just sent you the um the the segment from from the Daily Wire article. So, unlike many branches of Christianity, I just sent it.

SPEAKER_04 30:25

Let me blow it on.

Convert Boom And Zionism Framing

SPEAKER_06 30:30

See that little clip right there? Yeah, let me pop that up. Here we go.

SPEAKER_07 30:37

Okay, so unlike many branches of Christianity, the Catholic Church does not demand that the faithful be committed Zionists to receive God's blessing. Many prominent members of the church have spoken out about the pro the plight of civilians in Gaza. It seems recent converts to the faith understand those teachings, but somehow forget that the church also rejects any form of anti-Semitism, condemns hostility towards Jews, and upholds the enduring covenant. No, it no, it doesn't. No, it does not. This is where they're wrong, and upholds the enduring covenant with the Jewish people as God's chosen people. That is a complete lie. The church absolutely does not, even after the council does not do that. They have already become cafeteria Catholics, picking and choosing which parts of the teaching they prefer. The church nowhere calls the Jews the people of God. Nowhere. The church actually in Noshratate specifically says that the church is the people of God. Like it actually does endorse supersessionism in in no stratate. These people are um look, this whole conversation, even the even with what Carrie Prajon Bowler was doing, though, that's wrong too. This whole thing, anytime you see them framing it under religious liberty, and we're Catholics, we can't be forced to be Zionists. No, that's not anti-Semitism. She's right that that's not anti-Semitism, but but couching this conversation in the Gaza conversation, couching it in will Muslims have religious freedom too. That is not the way to have this conversation. This conversation needs to go very differently than it's being put forward in the public. And even with Bishop Barron's statement and Dolan then today coming out and and endorsing Barron's statement. Look, I have my issues with Carrie Pashaan Bowler. I'm not a fan of hers at all. But in Barron's statement, did I I think I put that in there? Let's bring Barron's statement up. It was probably back a little ways.

SPEAKER_04 32:37

Oh crap, I'd done the wrong one. I got it here.

Barron Statement And Religious Liberty Fight

SPEAKER_07 32:42

Yeah, I got Baron's statement right here. So over the past several weeks, Carrie Prajon Bowler has complained that she was removed from the Presidential Commission on Religious Liberty because of her Catholic beliefs. And she has called out myself and other Catholic members of the commission for not defending her. This is absurd. Mrs. Prajon Bowler was not dismissed for her religious convictions, but rather for her behavior at a gathering at the commission last month. I mean, I gotta be honest, I'm on his side so far. Up to that point, on a dusty manager. Yeah. Browbeating witnesses, aggressively asserting her point of view, hijacking the meeting for her own political purposes, still on your side, bishop.

SPEAKER_04 33:20

Yeah.

SPEAKER_07 33:20

The Catholic position on matters of Zionism, to which I fully subscribe, is as follows. So this is where it gets problematic. All forms of anti-Semitism are to be unequivocally condemned. What is anti-Semitism?

SPEAKER_04 33:33

And by saying all forms, you're you're automatically saying anything anyone says is anti-Semitism is bad.

SPEAKER_07 33:39

All forms is giving the ADL talking point.

SPEAKER_04 33:42

You should you should say true anti-Semitism and then give some sort of definition.

SPEAKER_07 33:46

Which is which is hatred of uh people because of their ethnicity, like their their their genetics or something, you know, like you cannot hate a people based on their genetic heritage, like that's racism, and that is wrong. So you can't hate Jews simply because they're just you can't you should. I mean, really, you should just all you need to say is Catholics cannot hate other people, like that's anyone, but that doesn't but criticism of Jewish behavior is not anti-Semitism. Correct. I'm sorry, it's just not criticism of Jewishism of their theology is not is not anti-Semitism.

SPEAKER_04 34:20

Criticism of their cultural practices is not anti-Semitism.

SPEAKER_07 34:23

So um the Catholic position, uh all right, so he says all forms of anti-Semitism would be unequivocally condemned. The state of Israel has a right to exist. No, I would argue against that emphatically.

SPEAKER_04 34:34

No state does.

SPEAKER_07 34:37

Yeah, and as a Catholic, I I don't think there's any there's there is no way a Catholic can financially support or give any kind of support to a Jewish state.

SPEAKER_04 34:52

Uh, you know, especially one in the Holy Land.

SPEAKER_07 34:56

In the Holy Land, specifically, yeah. Um, so uh the state of Israel has a right to exist, but the modern nation of Israel does not represent the fulfillment of biblical prophecies, I agree with that, and hence does not stand beyond criticism, but neither do Jews, is the point. Like you can criticize Italians, you can criticize blacks, you can criticize Muslims. You if you can criticize all those people, you can criticize Jews as well. And it does not equal anti-Semitism. Um, if Mrs. Prajon Bowler were dismissed for holding these beliefs, it is difficult to understand why I am still a member of the commission to paint herself as a victim of anti-Catholic prejudice or to claim that her religious liberty has been denied is simply preposterous. Like, I'm not, I'm not, I like I'm not against calling out Carrie Prasan Bowler's behavior. Like the woman is obnoxious, and I am not a fan of obnoxious women. Like, I'm sorry, I'm just I'm not. And the thing is, like I'm not going to change my view on that just because she's saying the thing I like. Like, I just I'm sorry. Like, there's it's the same thing with that guy talking about his wife's promiscuity. Like, there's there's a level of decorum we need to have in public life. She has said multiple times herself, I'm a mom and I'm a wife, I shouldn't be the one having this conversation. She said it, but she insists on continuously doing it.

SPEAKER_04 36:11

And and guys, when you are getting lectured about decorum by us two, yeah, you screwed up.

SPEAKER_07 36:17

Yeah, but I I would say we stay in our lane. That's true. Like, I think we stay in our lane. I I don't think I step outside of my lane. So um, what's going on with locals?

SPEAKER_04 36:29

Well, for I don't know about that yet, but we do need to talk about the people the about our our sponsors. Yes, we do need that, and then we do have this super chat.

SPEAKER_07 36:38

Um, got into some Twitter spats with y'all on my Anon alt. I want to apologize if that woman pursues any legal action. Happy to help pro bono, God bless. Um, I'm interested. I don't know what your I'm in spats all day on Twitter, so I don't know which one it is.

SPEAKER_04 36:53

You're gonna have to be more specific, but we do appreciate it.

Sponsors Then Locals-Only Teasers

SPEAKER_07 36:57

But yeah, we're always open to uh to to making amends. Always, yeah. Um, okay, so sponsors, uh knicknack.com. Knickknacks are amazing. We love knick knacks. Nicknack.com, uh knick knack is a um nicotine product, and nicotine is an addictive substance. Uh it is not a smoking sensation device, but it has helped me wonderfully get off my smoking habit. Um, we love knick knacks, man. And my wife loves them because I don't leave spitballs all over the house. They're they're very nice to just I I honestly I get them and I break them in half. I don't even put a full one in. Because you don't need a full one. So they last way longer than Zinn does. Um and we'll never go the Alp route. We'll never turn our back on Knickknacks. Knickknacks uh is is the is the is the bomb. We're gonna stick with them. So local's still not working. What are we gonna do about this, Rob? Um, also shop lobster.com. Rob, can we get more lobster?

SPEAKER_04 37:59

I'll ask him. I would like I would like one more order.

SPEAKER_07 38:03

One more shipment of lobster, I would like. Because I think you you said we had one more coming to us.

SPEAKER_04 38:08

Like we uh offer he offered one more, yeah.

SPEAKER_07 38:10

Yeah, we're not being paid for this. We're getting paid in lobster. We're getting paid in product, and we're not supposed to get high in our own supply, but I gotta tell you. It's uh that's it. That's been my whole Lent. I'm just surviving on knick-knacks and lobster.

SPEAKER_04 38:26

Knack and lobster.

SPEAKER_07 38:27

Knickknack and lobster, the whole thing.

SPEAKER_04 38:29

I'm excited for tomorrow, though.

SPEAKER_07 38:32

Uh, what's tomorrow?

SPEAKER_04 38:33

Meat day.

SPEAKER_07 38:34

I know. For the enunciation. Oh, you get to oh, that's right. Yeah, tomorrow's the enunciation. Be prepared for the demons to be unleashed. Yeah. They always they always come out of the woodwork. So shoplobster.com use code ab 10 for 10% off, and the knickknack code is ab 25%. Uh ab 25?

SPEAKER_04 38:54

A B 25%.

SPEAKER_07 38:56

They're both percent. Okay. So A B 25% for no no no no no no.

SPEAKER_04 39:01

A B 10 is 10% off. Okay.

SPEAKER_07 39:04

Lobster. We gotta get it. We gotta get it.

SPEAKER_04 39:06

A B25 is 25% off of your first order only at Knickknack.

SPEAKER_07 39:12

Yeah, when you weren't on, I just butchered.

SPEAKER_05 39:14

I know I was I'm getting text messages. I'm like, it's right there in locals.

SPEAKER_07 39:21

Rob had to teach me how to find banners. I'm like, I don't know where they are. Where are the banners? He's like, it's up on the right hand side, just look for banners. I was like, oh, okay, that'll work. Um, yeah, dude, I have to work Friday night. They just told me. I have to do a night shift on Friday night, and we have the mods leader on Saturday. Yeah, I don't know. I might have to just pull an old nighter and run straight through. All right, some people saying the locals app is working.

SPEAKER_04 39:52

Um it's working on my computer just fine.

SPEAKER_07 39:56

Uh we're gonna have people are gonna have to catch the show later. We just have to try it. I I think people like we're streaming to it, so it might be something that's not working at the moment.

SPEAKER_04 40:06

I mean, there's 42, 43 people in it right now watching.

SPEAKER_07 40:11

Yeah, guys, what we have to talk about is way too important to not go over there. Like we have to go over there. Um, us too, Amy. I will always be a Scott Scott Han defender. Um is tomorrow a holy day? No, tomorrow's not a holy day.

SPEAKER_04 40:27

It's not it's a it's a first class feast, but it's not a holy day.

SPEAKER_07 40:30

But it's not a holy day of obligation.

SPEAKER_04 40:32

But as a first class feast, uh feast, I'm eating meat tomorrow.

SPEAKER_07 40:36

And if you can make it to mass, you absolutely should go.

SPEAKER_04 40:38

Yeah.

SPEAKER_07 40:39

But it's not a holy day of obligation.

SPEAKER_04 40:41

Um I think it's not in America. It might be over in England. I'm not sure though.

SPEAKER_07 40:50

Um man, I really hope locals is working because we got some good stuff to do over there, guys. Like some really good stuff to do over there. And we have last week I didn't do enough for locals, and I really want to do some good stuff for locals this week. We're gonna have to do it, and maybe you guys will have to pick up the stream later because it's streaming there.

SPEAKER_04 41:07

So if you can't get through now, uh Jim is yeah, you guys want to go over because uh one of the guys in there is comparing pictures of me and my new glasses to Michael Moore, so you don't want to miss that.

SPEAKER_07 41:19

Um, but I we have to talk about this movie Sinners. This movie Sinners, um everybody thinks it's just about racism, and it's not. It's one of the most evil movies I've ever seen in its messaging. It is it is about rap as a religion, it is about black music as a religion, it is about uh black people. Uh it's not just about whites, it's about the white religion that we gave them. It's about Christianity and them turning on Christianity. So the whole thing is this warped demonic take on Christianity and white people, and I want to I want to go over there and discuss it. And the clip I want to play, we'll get a copyright if we do it here. Then there's uh also stuff with bad language in it that I want to discuss. Also, we have four spots left on the Italy pilgrimage.

SPEAKER_04 42:12

Oh, you do still have four?

SPEAKER_07 42:14

I didn't think we did, but we like we're trying to work things out, and it looks like we have four more spots. So if anybody does want to go, there's four spots. Email me at Anthony at avoidingbabylon.com and we'll see if we can squeeze you in. So the the the the main pilgrimage sold out in like two weeks, and we're trying to shift stuff around and see how we could do. We look like we could fit four more people on it. So if anybody is still interested in going, shoot me an email, Anthony at avoidingbabylon.com. Let's go check out locals, Rob. Let's go see what we could do over there because I can't bring it up on my own, but we need to.

SPEAKER_04 42:47

Let's see. What what what do we want to play as an outro? This is a good one. It's a little long, but it will be worth it.

SPEAKER_03 43:21

Now is the darkness that is the way. Brought here to you with the light of this day.