{"version":"1.0.0","segments":[{"speaker":"Scott Rae","startTime":0.3,"endTime":3.459,"body":"[upbeat music] What does it mean to have a healthy"},{"speaker":"Scott Rae","startTime":3.459,"endTime":7.379,"body":"calling? What do you- what do we mean by the notion of calling,"},{"speaker":"Scott Rae","startTime":7.379,"endTime":9.939,"body":"and how do you discern that? What is the difference between a"},{"speaker":"Scott Rae","startTime":9.939,"endTime":11.14,"body":"calling and a career"},{"speaker":"Scott Rae","startTime":11.74,"endTime":15.88,"body":"in today's work environment? We'll talk about these questions"},{"speaker":"Scott Rae","startTime":15.88,"endTime":19.3,"body":"and more on with our guest, Arianna Malloy, our colleague at"},{"speaker":"Scott Rae","startTime":19.3,"endTime":21.42,"body":"Biola University here in the Department of Communications."},{"speaker":"Scott Rae","startTime":21.42,"endTime":22.92,"body":"Her new book, Healthy Calling-"},{"speaker":"Scott Rae","startTime":23.44,"endTime":27.1,"body":"From Toxic Burnout to Sustainable Work. I'm your host,"},{"speaker":"Scott Rae","startTime":27.1,"endTime":27.719,"body":"Scott Rae."},{"speaker":"Sean McDowell","startTime":27.719,"endTime":29.079,"body":"And I'm your co-host, Sean McDowell."},{"speaker":"Scott Rae","startTime":29.079,"endTime":30.8,"body":"This is Think Biblically from Talbot School of"},{"speaker":"Scott Rae","startTime":30.8,"endTime":33.659,"body":"Theology at Biola University. Arianna, so glad to have you"},{"speaker":"Scott Rae","startTime":33.659,"endTime":38.439,"body":"with us. Loved your book. Great stuff, lots of insight, and lots"},{"speaker":"Scott Rae","startTime":38.439,"endTime":40.7,"body":"of stuff that you've been through personally-"},{"speaker":"Arianna Molloy","startTime":40.7,"endTime":40.939,"body":"Yeah"},{"speaker":"Scott Rae","startTime":40.939,"endTime":42.979,"body":"... With this, too. This is not something that's"},{"speaker":"Scott Rae","startTime":42.979,"endTime":45.06,"body":"just been this abstract, academic thing-"},{"speaker":"Arianna Molloy","startTime":45.06,"endTime":45.07,"body":"[laughing]"},{"speaker":"Scott Rae","startTime":45.07,"endTime":47.28,"body":"-but it's, it's been part of your, part of what"},{"speaker":"Scott Rae","startTime":47.28,"endTime":51.52,"body":"you've had to live through in pursuing your calling as an"},{"speaker":"Scott Rae","startTime":51.52,"endTime":56.28,"body":"academic, as a professor. So first of all, maybe what"},{"speaker":"Scott Rae","startTime":56.28,"endTime":57.899,"body":"was the one thing that"},{"speaker":"Scott Rae","startTime":58.539,"endTime":62.14,"body":"sort of put you- ... Put you over the edge, that made you"},{"speaker":"Scott Rae","startTime":62.14,"endTime":64.579,"body":"decide, \"I have got to write on this subject?\""},{"speaker":"Arianna Molloy","startTime":64.579,"endTime":66.739,"body":"[laughing] Wow, that's a really good question."},{"speaker":"Arianna Molloy","startTime":66.739,"endTime":68.84,"body":"Well, first of all, it's such a delight to be here. Thank you so"},{"speaker":"Arianna Molloy","startTime":68.84,"endTime":69.56,"body":"much for having me."},{"speaker":"Arianna Molloy","startTime":70.299,"endTime":75.739,"body":"The one thing... So, okay, COVID. Teaching in my home with"},{"speaker":"Arianna Molloy","startTime":75.739,"endTime":79.019,"body":"a two-year-old at the time, with a makeshift backdrop in our"},{"speaker":"Arianna Molloy","startTime":79.019,"endTime":81.84,"body":"bedroom, with my, sort of my dresser pretending to be a"},{"speaker":"Arianna Molloy","startTime":81.84,"endTime":85.2,"body":"bookshelf behind me while I was teaching my students, and I"},{"speaker":"Arianna Molloy","startTime":85.2,"endTime":87.459,"body":"heard this crash in the other room, and my husband was"},{"speaker":"Arianna Molloy","startTime":87.459,"endTime":90.14,"body":"watching our kid and feeding him something like spaghetti, so"},{"speaker":"Arianna Molloy","startTime":90.14,"endTime":92.079,"body":"stain-worthy food-"},{"speaker":"Scott Rae","startTime":92.079,"endTime":92.09,"body":"[laughing]"},{"speaker":"Arianna Molloy","startTime":92.09,"endTime":93.939,"body":"... And a cry. And all I could think of is, \"I"},{"speaker":"Arianna Molloy","startTime":93.939,"endTime":97.459,"body":"gotta make sure my child's okay.\" So I scoop up my son. I"},{"speaker":"Arianna Molloy","startTime":97.459,"endTime":100.579,"body":"put him on my lap as I'm teaching my class,"},{"speaker":"Arianna Molloy","startTime":101.14,"endTime":104.0,"body":"and I'm noticing that their non-verbals look kind of like"},{"speaker":"Arianna Molloy","startTime":104.0,"endTime":105.2,"body":"they're about to laugh."},{"speaker":"Scott Rae","startTime":105.2,"endTime":105.39,"body":"[chuckles]"},{"speaker":"Arianna Molloy","startTime":105.39,"endTime":107.879,"body":"And I realize he's opened my dresser and"},{"speaker":"Arianna Molloy","startTime":107.879,"endTime":110.099,"body":"pulled out something of my own-"},{"speaker":"Scott Rae","startTime":110.099,"endTime":110.189,"body":"[laughing] Wow!"},{"speaker":"Sean McDowell","startTime":110.189,"endTime":110.29,"body":"Wow."},{"speaker":"Arianna Molloy","startTime":110.29,"endTime":111.7,"body":"... Waving it around."},{"speaker":"Scott Rae","startTime":111.7,"endTime":112.0,"body":"Wow! [laughing]"},{"speaker":"Arianna Molloy","startTime":112.0,"endTime":116.599,"body":"And on that day, I was, I was, contacted by"},{"speaker":"Arianna Molloy","startTime":116.599,"endTime":118.95,"body":"a friend of mine in the publishing world, and he said,"},{"speaker":"Arianna Molloy","startTime":118.95,"endTime":120.959,"body":"\"Hey, you know, I've seen some of your talks. I think you ought"},{"speaker":"Arianna Molloy","startTime":120.959,"endTime":123.269,"body":"to write a book.\" And I laughed-"},{"speaker":"Scott Rae","startTime":123.269,"endTime":123.75,"body":"[chuckles]"},{"speaker":"Arianna Molloy","startTime":123.75,"endTime":126.7,"body":"... Because I was in a place of potential"},{"speaker":"Arianna Molloy","startTime":126.7,"endTime":130.699,"body":"burnout in that moment. And I thought to myself, \"No way can I"},{"speaker":"Arianna Molloy","startTime":130.699,"endTime":133.43,"body":"do that.\" And so I talked about this with my husband. He's like-"},{"speaker":"Arianna Molloy","startTime":133.43,"endTime":135.819,"body":"\"Well, why don't you just pray about it?\" So I did. I forgot"},{"speaker":"Arianna Molloy","startTime":135.819,"endTime":138.219,"body":"to do that, and I realized"},{"speaker":"Arianna Molloy","startTime":139.28,"endTime":141.659,"body":"I have something to say about this, 'cause I'm living it. I've"},{"speaker":"Arianna Molloy","startTime":141.659,"endTime":144.62,"body":"had experiences of burnout before, and I know what it's"},{"speaker":"Arianna Molloy","startTime":144.62,"endTime":147.28,"body":"like to recover from it, and I also know what it's like to"},{"speaker":"Arianna Molloy","startTime":147.28,"endTime":150.74,"body":"anticipate it and sort of figure out what you can do to not get"},{"speaker":"Arianna Molloy","startTime":150.74,"endTime":151.65,"body":"into the depths of it."},{"speaker":"Sean McDowell","startTime":152.52,"endTime":153.9,"body":"Now, you've mentioned that there's quite a"},{"speaker":"Sean McDowell","startTime":153.9,"endTime":158.12,"body":"few books on burnout, so what makes this book unique?"},{"speaker":"Arianna Molloy","startTime":158.12,"endTime":161.0,"body":"Yeah. Well, if we go back to thinking about our"},{"speaker":"Arianna Molloy","startTime":161.0,"endTime":163.9,"body":"calling- ... And when we're talking about calling, I'm not"},{"speaker":"Arianna Molloy","startTime":163.9,"endTime":166.36,"body":"just talking about our primary calling, which is to love God"},{"speaker":"Arianna Molloy","startTime":166.36,"endTime":169.199,"body":"and love others. As believers, we know that we are to do that"},{"speaker":"Arianna Molloy","startTime":169.199,"endTime":174.0,"body":"at all times, but that only acknowledges the magnificence of"},{"speaker":"Arianna Molloy","startTime":174.0,"endTime":177.24,"body":"God- ... The grand mastery of God. It doesn't acknowledge the"},{"speaker":"Arianna Molloy","startTime":177.24,"endTime":180.039,"body":"artistic nature and personal connection- ... That God has"},{"speaker":"Arianna Molloy","startTime":180.039,"endTime":183.599,"body":"with us. He's designed us with skill sets and passions that if"},{"speaker":"Arianna Molloy","startTime":183.599,"endTime":187.68,"body":"we are brave enough to pursue and develop, then we get to"},{"speaker":"Arianna Molloy","startTime":187.68,"endTime":190.759,"body":"experience it in a way that feels like a sweet spot. Now,"},{"speaker":"Arianna Molloy","startTime":190.759,"endTime":194.34,"body":"the reason that that's important to burnout is regular burnout is"},{"speaker":"Arianna Molloy","startTime":194.34,"endTime":196.599,"body":"terrible. We know this. There's lots of research out there. It"},{"speaker":"Arianna Molloy","startTime":196.599,"endTime":200.81,"body":"leads to depression- ... Anxiety, apathy, cynicism,"},{"speaker":"Arianna Molloy","startTime":200.81,"endTime":203.78,"body":"massive fatigue, sick days, all of those things, and that's"},{"speaker":"Arianna Molloy","startTime":203.78,"endTime":207.259,"body":"really real. It's, it's, \"Oh, my gosh, I don't like what I'm"},{"speaker":"Arianna Molloy","startTime":207.259,"endTime":208.009,"body":"doing anymore.\""},{"speaker":"Arianna Molloy","startTime":208.86,"endTime":211.8,"body":"But burnout from a calling is different, because burnout from"},{"speaker":"Arianna Molloy","startTime":211.8,"endTime":215.9,"body":"a calling has to do with burnout in a relational way. As a"},{"speaker":"Arianna Molloy","startTime":215.9,"endTime":218.479,"body":"communication person, we talk about this a lot, but calling"},{"speaker":"Arianna Molloy","startTime":218.479,"endTime":221.699,"body":"has to do with a relationship with three different sort of"},{"speaker":"Arianna Molloy","startTime":221.699,"endTime":224.979,"body":"dynamics. There's yourself, that's intrapersonal"},{"speaker":"Arianna Molloy","startTime":224.979,"endTime":225.919,"body":"communication."},{"speaker":"Sean McDowell","startTime":225.919,"endTime":225.979,"body":"Mm-hmm, mm-hmm."},{"speaker":"Arianna Molloy","startTime":225.979,"endTime":227.199,"body":"How you know yourself and what you think"},{"speaker":"Arianna Molloy","startTime":227.199,"endTime":227.889,"body":"about yourself."},{"speaker":"Sean McDowell","startTime":227.889,"endTime":227.9,"body":"Mm-hmm."},{"speaker":"Arianna Molloy","startTime":227.9,"endTime":229.58,"body":"There's the caller, which is God."},{"speaker":"Sean McDowell","startTime":229.58,"endTime":230.169,"body":"Mm-hmm."},{"speaker":"Arianna Molloy","startTime":230.169,"endTime":232.34,"body":"And then there's the third C, which is"},{"speaker":"Arianna Molloy","startTime":232.34,"endTime":236.139,"body":"community- ... The people you serve and those who impact you."},{"speaker":"Arianna Molloy","startTime":236.139,"endTime":239.58,"body":"So when you have burnout from a calling, it's not just, \"I don't"},{"speaker":"Arianna Molloy","startTime":239.58,"endTime":242.699,"body":"like what I'm doing anymore,\" which is terrible, it's, \"I"},{"speaker":"Arianna Molloy","startTime":242.699,"endTime":246.8,"body":"don't know who I am anymore.\" And there's a deep kind of toxic"},{"speaker":"Arianna Molloy","startTime":246.8,"endTime":250.84,"body":"shame about the- ... Spiritual, relational, emotional"},{"speaker":"Arianna Molloy","startTime":250.84,"endTime":253.52,"body":"connections- ... That come from feeling burnt out."},{"speaker":"Scott Rae","startTime":254.28,"endTime":256.379,"body":"So this would be something like, you know,"},{"speaker":"Scott Rae","startTime":256.379,"endTime":257.3,"body":"pastors-"},{"speaker":"Arianna Molloy","startTime":257.3,"endTime":257.5,"body":"Sure"},{"speaker":"Scott Rae","startTime":257.5,"endTime":258.48,"body":"... Who burn out-"},{"speaker":"Arianna Molloy","startTime":258.48,"endTime":258.92,"body":"Mm-hmm"},{"speaker":"Scott Rae","startTime":258.92,"endTime":262.779,"body":"... And are left feeling with, you know, \"Who am"},{"speaker":"Scott Rae","startTime":262.779,"endTime":263.259,"body":"I anymore?\""},{"speaker":"Arianna Molloy","startTime":263.259,"endTime":265.68,"body":"Yeah, and- ... Having that holy obligation,"},{"speaker":"Arianna Molloy","startTime":265.68,"endTime":268.639,"body":"that knowing that you can make a difference, that God's"},{"speaker":"Arianna Molloy","startTime":268.639,"endTime":272.639,"body":"equipped you, and yet you don't have it in you anymore. And it's"},{"speaker":"Arianna Molloy","startTime":272.639,"endTime":276.36,"body":"not just within, explicit pastoral ministry. It's within"},{"speaker":"Arianna Molloy","startTime":276.36,"endTime":278.319,"body":"healthcare and medical professionals. I've spoken with"},{"speaker":"Arianna Molloy","startTime":278.319,"endTime":281.769,"body":"people, executives and doctors at hospitals or- ..."},{"speaker":"Arianna Molloy","startTime":281.769,"endTime":285.22,"body":"Stay-at-home parents. There is a direct sense of calling when"},{"speaker":"Arianna Molloy","startTime":285.22,"endTime":288.879,"body":"you're doing certain things, firs- certainly educators, and"},{"speaker":"Arianna Molloy","startTime":288.879,"endTime":290.86,"body":"when you just don't have it in you anymore."},{"speaker":"Scott Rae","startTime":290.86,"endTime":292.879,"body":"Well, I can see that, applying to business-"},{"speaker":"Arianna Molloy","startTime":292.879,"endTime":292.889,"body":"Absolutely"},{"speaker":"Scott Rae","startTime":292.889,"endTime":294.759,"body":"... And a lot of other professions, and,"},{"speaker":"Scott Rae","startTime":295.339,"endTime":295.74,"body":"and just"},{"speaker":"Scott Rae","startTime":296.36,"endTime":297.029,"body":"making sure"},{"speaker":"Scott Rae","startTime":297.66,"endTime":301.079,"body":"that I think we distinguish between sort of burnout"},{"speaker":"Scott Rae","startTime":301.079,"endTime":305.019,"body":"generically, but this is a different category when you burn"},{"speaker":"Scott Rae","startTime":305.019,"endTime":306.72,"body":"out in things that you are called to do."},{"speaker":"Arianna Molloy","startTime":306.72,"endTime":307.43,"body":"Yeah."},{"speaker":"Scott Rae","startTime":308.279,"endTime":310.98,"body":"All right, so what... We've talked about the"},{"speaker":"Scott Rae","startTime":310.98,"endTime":315.279,"body":"notion of calling. Just to say a, say just a bit about how"},{"speaker":"Scott Rae","startTime":315.279,"endTime":317.139,"body":"you discern that in the first place."},{"speaker":"Arianna Molloy","startTime":317.139,"endTime":317.36,"body":"Ooh!"},{"speaker":"Arianna Molloy","startTime":317.959,"endTime":319.75,"body":"I wish I had, like, a three-by-five card-"},{"speaker":"Scott Rae","startTime":319.75,"endTime":319.75,"body":"[chuckles]"},{"speaker":"Arianna Molloy","startTime":319.75,"endTime":320.939,"body":"... Where I could just pass that around to"},{"speaker":"Arianna Molloy","startTime":320.939,"endTime":322.899,"body":"everybody. \"Here's how you can discern your calling.\""},{"speaker":"Arianna Molloy","startTime":322.899,"endTime":326.079,"body":"[laughing] That would be great. Yeah, you know, and we, you and"},{"speaker":"Arianna Molloy","startTime":326.079,"endTime":329.1,"body":"I have talked about this a bit before. There are those moments"},{"speaker":"Arianna Molloy","startTime":329.1,"endTime":332.879,"body":"where it's really clear, but those, integrated into the rest"},{"speaker":"Arianna Molloy","startTime":332.879,"endTime":336.35,"body":"of your life, are fewer and harder to discern in the moment."},{"speaker":"Arianna Molloy","startTime":336.35,"endTime":339.56,"body":"A lot of times, discerning your calling means that you pay"},{"speaker":"Arianna Molloy","startTime":339.56,"endTime":342.42,"body":"attention to the things that you are good at, that you're"},{"speaker":"Arianna Molloy","startTime":342.42,"endTime":346.18,"body":"interested in. You pay attention to, of course, what Scripture is"},{"speaker":"Arianna Molloy","startTime":346.18,"endTime":348.86,"body":"revealing to you in that moment- ... Too, because the Word of God"},{"speaker":"Arianna Molloy","startTime":348.86,"endTime":351.939,"body":"is living and active. You pay attention to the mentors in your"},{"speaker":"Arianna Molloy","startTime":351.939,"endTime":355.519,"body":"life and what they- ... See in you. You pay attention to what"},{"speaker":"Arianna Molloy","startTime":355.519,"endTime":358.149,"body":"you're thinking about when you're driving the car or you're"},{"speaker":"Arianna Molloy","startTime":358.149,"endTime":360.759,"body":"brushing your teeth, and you're just naturally gravitating"},{"speaker":"Arianna Molloy","startTime":360.759,"endTime":363.699,"body":"towards those things, and you see where the intersection of"},{"speaker":"Arianna Molloy","startTime":363.699,"endTime":367.04,"body":"skill set, passion, and positive impact might be."},{"speaker":"Sean McDowell","startTime":367.959,"endTime":369.879,"body":"... Wait, say that again. Skill set?"},{"speaker":"Arianna Molloy","startTime":369.879,"endTime":370.779,"body":"Passion."},{"speaker":"Sean McDowell","startTime":370.779,"endTime":371.279,"body":"Passion."},{"speaker":"Arianna Molloy","startTime":371.279,"endTime":371.949,"body":"Positive impact."},{"speaker":"Sean McDowell","startTime":371.949,"endTime":375.218,"body":"And positive impact. Okay, so it's less like"},{"speaker":"Sean McDowell","startTime":375.218,"endTime":379.408,"body":"hearing a voice from God, so to speak, and more just saying,"},{"speaker":"Sean McDowell","startTime":379.408,"endTime":383.36,"body":"\"What is my gifting? What do I enjoy? Where can I make a"},{"speaker":"Sean McDowell","startTime":383.36,"endTime":387.459,"body":"difference?\" And leaning into that is more so what you mean by"},{"speaker":"Sean McDowell","startTime":387.459,"endTime":388.038,"body":"calling."},{"speaker":"Arianna Molloy","startTime":388.038,"endTime":389.959,"body":"Yeah, and again, there are people who've"},{"speaker":"Arianna Molloy","startTime":389.959,"endTime":391.86,"body":"had a very clear feeling."},{"speaker":"Sean McDowell","startTime":391.86,"endTime":392.17,"body":"Sure."},{"speaker":"Arianna Molloy","startTime":392.17,"endTime":393.959,"body":"And I, myself, have had a few of those moments."},{"speaker":"Arianna Molloy","startTime":393.959,"endTime":396.5,"body":"I remember when I was walking on campus at Biola, deciding"},{"speaker":"Arianna Molloy","startTime":396.5,"endTime":399.12,"body":"whether or not I wanted to be a professor here, and I was"},{"speaker":"Arianna Molloy","startTime":399.12,"endTime":401.56,"body":"walking across the lawn, and I had that very"},{"speaker":"Arianna Molloy","startTime":402.399,"endTime":406.37,"body":"clear but soft sense of peace, and I called my dad right away."},{"speaker":"Arianna Molloy","startTime":406.37,"endTime":408.658,"body":"And I said, \"Dad, I don't think I'm coming back home.\""},{"speaker":"Scott Rae","startTime":408.658,"endTime":409.038,"body":"Yeah."},{"speaker":"Arianna Molloy","startTime":409.038,"endTime":410.93,"body":"Like, we're from Seattle. I don't think I'm-"},{"speaker":"Sean McDowell","startTime":410.93,"endTime":411.62,"body":"I was gonna say, where's home?"},{"speaker":"Arianna Molloy","startTime":411.62,"endTime":412.519,"body":"Yeah, home was Seattle."},{"speaker":"Sean McDowell","startTime":412.519,"endTime":412.718,"body":"Wow."},{"speaker":"Arianna Molloy","startTime":412.718,"endTime":413.839,"body":"I had no intention of coming to"},{"speaker":"Arianna Molloy","startTime":413.839,"endTime":417.36,"body":"California, and it was a clear sense of peace, but I would say"},{"speaker":"Arianna Molloy","startTime":417.36,"endTime":418.24,"body":"if I wasn't"},{"speaker":"Arianna Molloy","startTime":419.379,"endTime":422.009,"body":"vulnerable enough to pay attention to that whisper- ..."},{"speaker":"Arianna Molloy","startTime":422.009,"endTime":424.6,"body":"And courageous enough to take the leap, I would've missed that"},{"speaker":"Arianna Molloy","startTime":424.6,"endTime":425.538,"body":"calling moment."},{"speaker":"Sean McDowell","startTime":426.579,"endTime":427.658,"body":"Interesting."},{"speaker":"Scott Rae","startTime":427.658,"endTime":430.158,"body":"So, just distinguish then between a calling and a"},{"speaker":"Scott Rae","startTime":430.158,"endTime":430.939,"body":"career."},{"speaker":"Arianna Molloy","startTime":430.939,"endTime":432.72,"body":"Yes. Ooh, I love that. Actually, there's"},{"speaker":"Arianna Molloy","startTime":432.72,"endTime":435.74,"body":"three different categories of work, generally speaking, and"},{"speaker":"Arianna Molloy","startTime":435.74,"endTime":439.0,"body":"they can overlap, and they can be seasonal and even happen, you"},{"speaker":"Arianna Molloy","startTime":439.0,"endTime":440.759,"body":"know, a little bit together, but there's three general"},{"speaker":"Arianna Molloy","startTime":440.759,"endTime":445.259,"body":"categories. The first is just a job. A job pays the bills. A"},{"speaker":"Arianna Molloy","startTime":445.259,"endTime":447.98,"body":"job, you might live for the weekend. It doesn't necessarily"},{"speaker":"Arianna Molloy","startTime":447.98,"endTime":449.839,"body":"promise that you're gonna use the things that you're"},{"speaker":"Arianna Molloy","startTime":449.839,"endTime":453.379,"body":"passionate about, your skill set, or even the, kinds of"},{"speaker":"Arianna Molloy","startTime":453.379,"endTime":454.689,"body":"schooling and education that you've had."},{"speaker":"Arianna Molloy","startTime":455.269,"endTime":459.459,"body":"The job pays the bills. That's the main goal. The second is a"},{"speaker":"Arianna Molloy","startTime":459.459,"endTime":463.019,"body":"career. The career, there is some promise of upward mobility,"},{"speaker":"Arianna Molloy","startTime":463.019,"endTime":466.48,"body":"the 5- to 10-year plan, that sense of like, \"Oh, my gosh, I"},{"speaker":"Arianna Molloy","startTime":466.48,"endTime":469.279,"body":"got a corner office. I can take my family on vacation. This is"},{"speaker":"Arianna Molloy","startTime":469.279,"endTime":472.459,"body":"amazing!\" [chuckles] It's the external reward, and that's"},{"speaker":"Arianna Molloy","startTime":472.459,"endTime":477.459,"body":"good, but a calling is something different. A calling is when the"},{"speaker":"Arianna Molloy","startTime":477.459,"endTime":482.079,"body":"intrinsic, the internal thirst, is quenched by knowing you are"},{"speaker":"Arianna Molloy","startTime":482.079,"endTime":486.36,"body":"doing something deeply meaningful. Now, when I've"},{"speaker":"Arianna Molloy","startTime":486.36,"endTime":489.18,"body":"interviewed people, a lot of them actually choose a job or a"},{"speaker":"Arianna Molloy","startTime":489.18,"endTime":492.98,"body":"career to pay the bills, and their calling isn't necessarily"},{"speaker":"Arianna Molloy","startTime":492.98,"endTime":496.24,"body":"paid work. So I want to be clear that it's not necessary that"},{"speaker":"Arianna Molloy","startTime":496.24,"endTime":499.259,"body":"your paid work is your calling. You can still find ways"},{"speaker":"Arianna Molloy","startTime":499.259,"endTime":502.259,"body":"to integrate that into the work that you're doing."},{"speaker":"Scott Rae","startTime":502.259,"endTime":505.56,"body":"I think in some cases, we don't, we don't often"},{"speaker":"Scott Rae","startTime":505.56,"endTime":506.158,"body":"help"},{"speaker":"Scott Rae","startTime":506.72,"endTime":508.088,"body":"our college students"},{"speaker":"Scott Rae","startTime":508.6,"endTime":512.36,"body":"recognize the meaningfulness of things that other people might"},{"speaker":"Scott Rae","startTime":512.36,"endTime":513.259,"body":"just call a job."},{"speaker":"Arianna Molloy","startTime":513.259,"endTime":514.34,"body":"Yes."},{"speaker":"Scott Rae","startTime":514.34,"endTime":516.72,"body":"But... And I think, I think to re- it's, it's"},{"speaker":"Scott Rae","startTime":516.72,"endTime":521.0,"body":"more a mindset, it seems to me, toward the job or the occupation"},{"speaker":"Scott Rae","startTime":521.0,"endTime":522.418,"body":"rather than the job itself."},{"speaker":"Arianna Molloy","startTime":522.418,"endTime":523.46,"body":"Mm-hmm."},{"speaker":"Scott Rae","startTime":523.46,"endTime":525.659,"body":"'cause I suspect you would hold that, you know,"},{"speaker":"Scott Rae","startTime":525.659,"endTime":527.44,"body":"any job can be a calling."},{"speaker":"Arianna Molloy","startTime":527.44,"endTime":528.578,"body":"Yes."},{"speaker":"Scott Rae","startTime":528.578,"endTime":529.049,"body":"And I think"},{"speaker":"Scott Rae","startTime":529.74,"endTime":533.2,"body":"if we, if we recognize that God calls people to business or to"},{"speaker":"Scott Rae","startTime":533.2,"endTime":535.639,"body":"the profession in the same way that he calls people to the"},{"speaker":"Scott Rae","startTime":535.639,"endTime":538.659,"body":"pastorate or the mission field, then we need to do a better"},{"speaker":"Scott Rae","startTime":538.659,"endTime":541.94,"body":"job of explaining the meaningfulness of those other"},{"speaker":"Scott Rae","startTime":541.94,"endTime":544.98,"body":"occupations- ... That don't get a paycheck from a church or"},{"speaker":"Scott Rae","startTime":544.98,"endTime":546.919,"body":"other Christian organization."},{"speaker":"Arianna Molloy","startTime":546.919,"endTime":548.539,"body":"I'm smiling right now because I have this"},{"speaker":"Arianna Molloy","startTime":548.539,"endTime":551.879,"body":"distinct memory of interviewing a financial advisor- ... Who"},{"speaker":"Arianna Molloy","startTime":551.879,"endTime":554.6,"body":"felt called, and I asked him to tell me a little bit more about"},{"speaker":"Arianna Molloy","startTime":554.6,"endTime":556.84,"body":"his experience, and he was telling me that he actually was"},{"speaker":"Arianna Molloy","startTime":556.84,"endTime":561.1,"body":"getting his, MDiv, wanting to be a pastor and a theologian, and"},{"speaker":"Arianna Molloy","startTime":561.1,"endTime":565.179,"body":"he was in India, doing a service work there, and every day off"},{"speaker":"Arianna Molloy","startTime":565.179,"endTime":567.7,"body":"that he had, he would go to the market, and he would just be"},{"speaker":"Arianna Molloy","startTime":567.7,"endTime":570.029,"body":"drawn to financial books- [chuckles]"},{"speaker":"Scott Rae","startTime":570.029,"endTime":570.029,"body":"[chuckles]"},{"speaker":"Arianna Molloy","startTime":570.029,"endTime":572.98,"body":"-and numbers. And he re- he told me in the"},{"speaker":"Arianna Molloy","startTime":572.98,"endTime":576.1,"body":"interview, he said- ... \"I remember that feeling of God"},{"speaker":"Arianna Molloy","startTime":576.1,"endTime":577.928,"body":"saying, 'Why are you denying"},{"speaker":"Arianna Molloy","startTime":578.62,"endTime":579.549,"body":"who you are?'\""},{"speaker":"Arianna Molloy","startTime":580.799,"endTime":583.059,"body":"And so he ended up becoming a financial advisor, but guess"},{"speaker":"Arianna Molloy","startTime":583.059,"endTime":587.259,"body":"what he does? He uses his pastoral skill set to be a"},{"speaker":"Arianna Molloy","startTime":587.259,"endTime":591.24,"body":"phenomenal financial advisor, praying over his clients-"},{"speaker":"Scott Rae","startTime":591.24,"endTime":591.85,"body":"Hear, hear"},{"speaker":"Arianna Molloy","startTime":591.85,"endTime":591.869,"body":"..."},{"speaker":"Arianna Molloy","startTime":592.44,"endTime":595.5,"body":"Honoring- ... That rest time, being the kind of person that"},{"speaker":"Arianna Molloy","startTime":595.5,"endTime":598.919,"body":"develops a work rhythm that is worshipful to the Lord."},{"speaker":"Sean McDowell","startTime":598.919,"endTime":601.039,"body":"And that's back to the three kind of job"},{"speaker":"Sean McDowell","startTime":601.039,"endTime":603.559,"body":"orientations you're talking about, that there's the job,"},{"speaker":"Sean McDowell","startTime":603.559,"endTime":606.86,"body":"like you described, there's a career, then there's a vocation."},{"speaker":"Sean McDowell","startTime":606.86,"endTime":610.139,"body":"When you're a financial planner and you have or calling,"},{"speaker":"Sean McDowell","startTime":610.139,"endTime":612.759,"body":"another term that's often used is vocation, like a deeper"},{"speaker":"Sean McDowell","startTime":612.759,"endTime":616.559,"body":"purpose in terms of what I'm doing. The literature I read on"},{"speaker":"Sean McDowell","startTime":616.559,"endTime":619.559,"body":"happiness says that's also where happiness comes from, when you"},{"speaker":"Sean McDowell","startTime":619.559,"endTime":623.039,"body":"have that meaning of something you're contributing to. So I"},{"speaker":"Sean McDowell","startTime":623.039,"endTime":625.74,"body":"love that distinction. What would you say to somebody who"},{"speaker":"Sean McDowell","startTime":625.74,"endTime":629.46,"body":"said, \"Arianna, I want to do this. I have a deep sense of"},{"speaker":"Sean McDowell","startTime":629.46,"endTime":633.559,"body":"calling, but I can't make a living doing what I love"},{"speaker":"Sean McDowell","startTime":633.559,"endTime":636.94,"body":"[chuckles] and feel called to\"? How would you navigate that?"},{"speaker":"Arianna Molloy","startTime":636.94,"endTime":638.839,"body":"Yeah, those are really good questions that I get"},{"speaker":"Arianna Molloy","startTime":638.839,"endTime":640.639,"body":"a lot, and I- ... Would obviously need to know the"},{"speaker":"Arianna Molloy","startTime":640.639,"endTime":643.919,"body":"specifics of that person's life, but what I would say is, if"},{"speaker":"Arianna Molloy","startTime":643.919,"endTime":647.379,"body":"there is that longing, always look for the third option. I"},{"speaker":"Arianna Molloy","startTime":647.379,"endTime":650.059,"body":"feel like God is- ... The God of third options. We often look at"},{"speaker":"Arianna Molloy","startTime":650.059,"endTime":652.799,"body":"one or the other. Either it's this or it's that, because this"},{"speaker":"Arianna Molloy","startTime":652.799,"endTime":656.318,"body":"sense of it's this or it's that feels very clear. But"},{"speaker":"Arianna Molloy","startTime":656.318,"endTime":659.25,"body":"rather than saying, \"Lord, if you've given me this passion and"},{"speaker":"Arianna Molloy","startTime":659.25,"endTime":662.48,"body":"this skill set, I'm gonna keep doing what I'm doing right now,"},{"speaker":"Arianna Molloy","startTime":662.48,"endTime":665.72,"body":"I'm gonna pursue every option,\" open the door if there's an open"},{"speaker":"Arianna Molloy","startTime":665.72,"endTime":669.22,"body":"door. There are ways to do informational interviews with"},{"speaker":"Arianna Molloy","startTime":669.22,"endTime":672.078,"body":"people who you're interested in doing that kind of work. Learn"},{"speaker":"Arianna Molloy","startTime":672.078,"endTime":675.299,"body":"about those things, network with them. I will say this, though,"},{"speaker":"Arianna Molloy","startTime":675.299,"endTime":677.7,"body":"as it relates to calling, and we can get into this or not, about"},{"speaker":"Arianna Molloy","startTime":677.7,"endTime":678.818,"body":"the dark side of calling."},{"speaker":"Scott Rae","startTime":678.818,"endTime":681.379,"body":"[chuckles] Oh, I definitely want to go there."},{"speaker":"Arianna Molloy","startTime":681.379,"endTime":681.929,"body":"[laughing]"},{"speaker":"Sean McDowell","startTime":681.929,"endTime":682.22,"body":"Okay."},{"speaker":"Arianna Molloy","startTime":682.22,"endTime":684.379,"body":"I genuinely believe that a healthy calling"},{"speaker":"Arianna Molloy","startTime":684.379,"endTime":686.62,"body":"does not harm the people God has entrusted to you."},{"speaker":"Arianna Molloy","startTime":687.259,"endTime":689.779,"body":"So if you feel called to do something in your work but it"},{"speaker":"Arianna Molloy","startTime":689.779,"endTime":692.62,"body":"harms your family, I would push back real hard about whether"},{"speaker":"Arianna Molloy","startTime":692.62,"endTime":695.279,"body":"that's a calling, because I think that a healthy calling"},{"speaker":"Arianna Molloy","startTime":695.279,"endTime":696.97,"body":"honors your whole life."},{"speaker":"Arianna Molloy","startTime":697.779,"endTime":701.159,"body":"And we are called in our relationships to honor who God"},{"speaker":"Arianna Molloy","startTime":701.159,"endTime":702.599,"body":"has put in our life as well."},{"speaker":"Scott Rae","startTime":704.299,"endTime":706.379,"body":"Now, one of the things I particularly appreciate"},{"speaker":"Scott Rae","startTime":706.379,"endTime":708.259,"body":"here that I hadn't thought about all that much"},{"speaker":"Scott Rae","startTime":708.98,"endTime":712.599,"body":"is that you make the point that people who view their work as a"},{"speaker":"Scott Rae","startTime":712.599,"endTime":714.7,"body":"calling are more vulnerable to burnout."},{"speaker":"Scott Rae","startTime":715.24,"endTime":716.279,"body":"Why is that the case?"},{"speaker":"Arianna Molloy","startTime":716.279,"endTime":717.659,"body":"Yeah. Well, here's what's really"},{"speaker":"Arianna Molloy","startTime":717.659,"endTime":719.98,"body":"interesting. Of all the categories, job, career, or"},{"speaker":"Arianna Molloy","startTime":719.98,"endTime":723.639,"body":"calling, the people who are the most motivated, the most"},{"speaker":"Arianna Molloy","startTime":723.639,"endTime":727.919,"body":"satisfied, who are able wi- to withstand organizational change,"},{"speaker":"Arianna Molloy","startTime":727.919,"endTime":731.179,"body":"economic crisis, who will work the extra hours with the"},{"speaker":"Arianna Molloy","startTime":731.179,"endTime":734.059,"body":"gladness of their heart, who will be the positive change"},{"speaker":"Arianna Molloy","startTime":734.059,"endTime":737.318,"body":"agent in the room, is the person who feel cl- feels called,"},{"speaker":"Arianna Molloy","startTime":737.318,"endTime":740.371,"body":"right? ... But they are actually, more than any other"},{"speaker":"Arianna Molloy","startTime":740.371,"endTime":744.39,"body":"people group, the most prone to burnout, because it is harder to"},{"speaker":"Arianna Molloy","startTime":744.39,"endTime":749.011,"body":"establish healthy boundaries in calling because of those"},{"speaker":"Arianna Molloy","startTime":749.011,"endTime":749.692,"body":"relational,"},{"speaker":"Arianna Molloy","startTime":750.231,"endTime":752.611,"body":"holy obligations. And so"},{"speaker":"Arianna Molloy","startTime":753.27,"endTime":755.432,"body":"unfortunately, and this is part of the impetus of writing this"},{"speaker":"Arianna Molloy","startTime":755.432,"endTime":758.831,"body":"book, my heart would be that we all care for our calling in a"},{"speaker":"Arianna Molloy","startTime":758.831,"endTime":762.932,"body":"stewardly way so that we don't get too deep into that dark"},{"speaker":"Arianna Molloy","startTime":762.932,"endTime":765.711,"body":"side. 'Cause when we get there, it really disrupts all the"},{"speaker":"Arianna Molloy","startTime":765.711,"endTime":767.65,"body":"potential that we have."},{"speaker":"Sean McDowell","startTime":767.65,"endTime":769.9,"body":"Seems like mixed into calling, like, we would"},{"speaker":"Sean McDowell","startTime":769.9,"endTime":771.991,"body":"look at that person and go, \"Wow, they're so called, and"},{"speaker":"Sean McDowell","startTime":771.991,"endTime":775.072,"body":"they're so motivated. They're working so hard.\" But there also"},{"speaker":"Sean McDowell","startTime":775.072,"endTime":779.572,"body":"can be other issues tied up into why that person is working so"},{"speaker":"Sean McDowell","startTime":779.572,"endTime":780.051,"body":"hard-"},{"speaker":"Arianna Molloy","startTime":780.051,"endTime":780.201,"body":"[laughs] Mm-hmm."},{"speaker":"Sean McDowell","startTime":780.201,"endTime":782.451,"body":"Right? That's not that we say, \"Oh, they're so"},{"speaker":"Sean McDowell","startTime":782.451,"endTime":784.611,"body":"passionate. They're calling,\" and we give an excuse to"},{"speaker":"Sean McDowell","startTime":785.192,"endTime":788.671,"body":"workaholism or things like, \"This is my identity. I work"},{"speaker":"Sean McDowell","startTime":788.671,"endTime":793.291,"body":"hard.\" So how do you balance, or how do you know when a calling"},{"speaker":"Sean McDowell","startTime":793.291,"endTime":797.451,"body":"has become idolatrous, which we described earlier, it can lead"},{"speaker":"Sean McDowell","startTime":797.451,"endTime":800.711,"body":"to burnout, but even if it doesn't, we should be concerned"},{"speaker":"Sean McDowell","startTime":800.711,"endTime":802.41,"body":"about that potential idolatry?"},{"speaker":"Arianna Molloy","startTime":802.41,"endTime":804.331,"body":"Yeah, absolutely. So within the dark"},{"speaker":"Arianna Molloy","startTime":804.331,"endTime":806.721,"body":"side of calling, there's so many things that could happen- ..."},{"speaker":"Arianna Molloy","startTime":806.721,"endTime":809.192,"body":"And some things that are out of our control. We could have a"},{"speaker":"Arianna Molloy","startTime":809.192,"endTime":812.851,"body":"sense of exploitation, manipulation, marginalization."},{"speaker":"Arianna Molloy","startTime":812.851,"endTime":815.451,"body":"Certain cultures take advantage of our feelings of calling to"},{"speaker":"Arianna Molloy","startTime":815.451,"endTime":818.64,"body":"cause us to work overtime beyond our capacity. So those are"},{"speaker":"Arianna Molloy","startTime":818.64,"endTime":822.231,"body":"things that are potentially out of our control. But the things"},{"speaker":"Arianna Molloy","startTime":822.231,"endTime":825.692,"body":"that we do have in our control is not succumbing to workaholism"},{"speaker":"Arianna Molloy","startTime":825.692,"endTime":828.291,"body":"and job idolization. So should we, should we define those terms"},{"speaker":"Arianna Molloy","startTime":828.291,"endTime":828.951,"body":"real quick?"},{"speaker":"Scott Rae","startTime":828.951,"endTime":829.131,"body":"Go for it."},{"speaker":"Sean McDowell","startTime":829.131,"endTime":829.541,"body":"Sure, and I-"},{"speaker":"Arianna Molloy","startTime":829.541,"endTime":829.91,"body":"Okay."},{"speaker":"Sean McDowell","startTime":829.91,"endTime":830.451,"body":"Yeah."},{"speaker":"Arianna Molloy","startTime":830.451,"endTime":833.211,"body":"Yeah. So workaholism is an addiction. Let"},{"speaker":"Arianna Molloy","startTime":833.211,"endTime":836.091,"body":"me just pause for a second. If, if we could get anything out of"},{"speaker":"Arianna Molloy","startTime":836.091,"endTime":840.03,"body":"our time, it would be to never compliment someone again with"},{"speaker":"Arianna Molloy","startTime":840.03,"endTime":842.77,"body":"the phrase, \"Oh, you're such a workaholic.\" That's not a"},{"speaker":"Arianna Molloy","startTime":842.77,"endTime":846.072,"body":"compliment. We can say, \"You have such a high capacity.\""},{"speaker":"Arianna Molloy","startTime":846.072,"endTime":847.03,"body":"That's a compliment."},{"speaker":"Arianna Molloy","startTime":847.692,"endTime":850.422,"body":"\"It's phenomenal that you're able to do all of this.\""},{"speaker":"Sean McDowell","startTime":850.422,"endTime":850.451,"body":"Huh."},{"speaker":"Arianna Molloy","startTime":850.451,"endTime":852.751,"body":"That's a compliment. But workaholism is"},{"speaker":"Arianna Molloy","startTime":852.751,"endTime":855.991,"body":"an addiction. It's one of the most widely held addictions in"},{"speaker":"Arianna Molloy","startTime":855.991,"endTime":859.011,"body":"our contemporary culture right now, and what it is"},{"speaker":"Arianna Molloy","startTime":859.011,"endTime":861.692,"body":"initially, it feels really good to be wanted. Feels good to be"},{"speaker":"Arianna Molloy","startTime":861.692,"endTime":864.39,"body":"that person in the room, they're like, \"Hey, I can count on you"},{"speaker":"Arianna Molloy","startTime":864.39,"endTime":867.451,"body":"to do this, to work overtime, to get it done.\" Oh, my gosh, that"},{"speaker":"Arianna Molloy","startTime":867.451,"endTime":870.03,"body":"feels so good. The social capital, knowing that people can"},{"speaker":"Arianna Molloy","startTime":870.03,"endTime":874.251,"body":"count on you, it's great. But it becomes an addiction when we no"},{"speaker":"Arianna Molloy","startTime":874.251,"endTime":877.471,"body":"longer are doing it for the good feeling, we're doing it to avoid"},{"speaker":"Arianna Molloy","startTime":877.471,"endTime":881.311,"body":"the bad feeling when we're done. We're doing it because to slow"},{"speaker":"Arianna Molloy","startTime":881.311,"endTime":881.572,"body":"down"},{"speaker":"Arianna Molloy","startTime":882.091,"endTime":885.051,"body":"all the other things that we've pushed to the side, all the"},{"speaker":"Arianna Molloy","startTime":885.051,"endTime":889.231,"body":"other emotions rise to the top, and it's wildly uncomfortable."},{"speaker":"Arianna Molloy","startTime":889.231,"endTime":893.831,"body":"That's workaholism. Job idolatry is a little bit different. Job"},{"speaker":"Arianna Molloy","startTime":893.831,"endTime":897.791,"body":"idolatry is when work is no longer an expression of who you"},{"speaker":"Arianna Molloy","startTime":897.791,"endTime":901.301,"body":"are, but the definition of who you are. It's when it has- ..."},{"speaker":"Arianna Molloy","startTime":901.301,"endTime":905.451,"body":"The highest primacy of value in your life. So it's the kind of"},{"speaker":"Arianna Molloy","startTime":905.451,"endTime":909.051,"body":"thing where you use your job to not show up for the people and"},{"speaker":"Arianna Molloy","startTime":909.051,"endTime":911.27,"body":"the commitments that you've made- ... Because your job"},{"speaker":"Arianna Molloy","startTime":911.27,"endTime":914.311,"body":"always takes priority."},{"speaker":"Sean McDowell","startTime":914.311,"endTime":916.111,"body":"If, if I can lean to something, I think you"},{"speaker":"Sean McDowell","startTime":916.111,"endTime":916.471,"body":"said"},{"speaker":"Sean McDowell","startTime":917.291,"endTime":920.511,"body":"that there are certain professions that take advantage"},{"speaker":"Sean McDowell","startTime":920.511,"endTime":924.692,"body":"of a sense of calling to generate a kind of workaholism."},{"speaker":"Sean McDowell","startTime":924.692,"endTime":927.211,"body":"What are some of the professions- ... That tend to do"},{"speaker":"Sean McDowell","startTime":927.211,"endTime":927.932,"body":"that?"},{"speaker":"Arianna Molloy","startTime":927.932,"endTime":929.65,"body":"I think any profession that's a serving"},{"speaker":"Arianna Molloy","startTime":929.65,"endTime":932.27,"body":"profession, so again, in the medical field, that's for sure."},{"speaker":"Arianna Molloy","startTime":932.27,"endTime":935.481,"body":"I mean, if you say no, someone dies. [laughs]"},{"speaker":"Sean McDowell","startTime":935.481,"endTime":936.572,"body":"[laughs] That's pretty dramatic."},{"speaker":"Arianna Molloy","startTime":936.572,"endTime":937.6,"body":"It's, it's really hard."},{"speaker":"Sean McDowell","startTime":937.6,"endTime":937.631,"body":"Okay."},{"speaker":"Arianna Molloy","startTime":937.631,"endTime":939.251,"body":"I was, I was talking to some executives-"},{"speaker":"Sean McDowell","startTime":939.251,"endTime":939.831,"body":"Huh"},{"speaker":"Arianna Molloy","startTime":939.831,"endTime":941.221,"body":"... At a, at a hospital recently."},{"speaker":"Arianna Molloy","startTime":941.831,"endTime":944.811,"body":"And it's really hard if you are exhausted- ..."},{"speaker":"Arianna Molloy","startTime":944.811,"endTime":947.91,"body":"And you want to go home- ... But if you go home, someone could"},{"speaker":"Arianna Molloy","startTime":947.91,"endTime":951.791,"body":"get actually, physically, truly hurt. That's really hard."},{"speaker":"Arianna Molloy","startTime":951.791,"endTime":954.471,"body":"Anytime there's a culture of calling, whether it be"},{"speaker":"Arianna Molloy","startTime":954.471,"endTime":957.77,"body":"explicitly faith-based or not, it's a little bit hard to"},{"speaker":"Arianna Molloy","startTime":957.77,"endTime":960.351,"body":"create those boundary lines sometimes. Because we all wanna"},{"speaker":"Arianna Molloy","startTime":960.351,"endTime":963.221,"body":"do more. We wanna do something for the kingdom. But"},{"speaker":"Arianna Molloy","startTime":963.991,"endTime":967.072,"body":"the very first thing that was called holy in the Bible was"},{"speaker":"Arianna Molloy","startTime":967.072,"endTime":967.53,"body":"Sabbath-"},{"speaker":"Arianna Molloy","startTime":968.351,"endTime":972.011,"body":"... And we know that Jesus withdrew. We know that He found"},{"speaker":"Arianna Molloy","startTime":972.011,"endTime":975.831,"body":"Himself- ... Places to restore, and we must walk humbly with God"},{"speaker":"Arianna Molloy","startTime":975.831,"endTime":976.311,"body":"in that way."},{"speaker":"Scott Rae","startTime":977.731,"endTime":981.91,"body":"Are there some ethnic cultures that I- that you"},{"speaker":"Scott Rae","startTime":981.91,"endTime":984.991,"body":"think are more susceptible to burnout"},{"speaker":"Scott Rae","startTime":985.971,"endTime":987.291,"body":"than others?"},{"speaker":"Arianna Molloy","startTime":987.291,"endTime":989.471,"body":"Oh, that's a really interesting question. I"},{"speaker":"Arianna Molloy","startTime":989.471,"endTime":993.791,"body":"don't know the research on that. I've primarily worked within"},{"speaker":"Arianna Molloy","startTime":993.791,"endTime":997.451,"body":"Western culture, but I do know that there are studies within"},{"speaker":"Arianna Molloy","startTime":997.451,"endTime":1001.571,"body":"Asian cultures as well that also look at this type of... There's"},{"speaker":"Arianna Molloy","startTime":1001.571,"endTime":1004.511,"body":"actually a specific term for that they use to describe"},{"speaker":"Arianna Molloy","startTime":1004.511,"endTime":1004.932,"body":"it,"},{"speaker":"Arianna Molloy","startTime":1005.491,"endTime":1007.231,"body":"but just overworking."},{"speaker":"Arianna Molloy","startTime":1008.051,"endTime":1010.231,"body":"There's other dynamics here, though, because if you think"},{"speaker":"Arianna Molloy","startTime":1010.231,"endTime":1013.211,"body":"about first-generation versus second-generation immigrants,"},{"speaker":"Arianna Molloy","startTime":1013.211,"endTime":1015.831,"body":"second-generation immigrants typically carry the callings of"},{"speaker":"Arianna Molloy","startTime":1015.831,"endTime":1019.291,"body":"their parents, which is to succeed [chuckles] ... Along"},{"speaker":"Arianna Molloy","startTime":1019.291,"endTime":1022.791,"body":"with their own desire to do something in work. And so"},{"speaker":"Arianna Molloy","startTime":1022.791,"endTime":1027.55,"body":"certainly, calling is complex. There's elements of privilege."},{"speaker":"Arianna Molloy","startTime":1027.55,"endTime":1030.511,"body":"It's contextual as it relates to different ethnic and cultural"},{"speaker":"Arianna Molloy","startTime":1030.511,"endTime":1033.112,"body":"backgrounds, but I don't know personally what those statistics"},{"speaker":"Arianna Molloy","startTime":1033.112,"endTime":1033.511,"body":"might be."},{"speaker":"Scott Rae","startTime":1033.511,"endTime":1036.612,"body":"Okay. Now, one other concept I found really helpful"},{"speaker":"Scott Rae","startTime":1036.612,"endTime":1039.33,"body":"from the book is you refer to something called boundary"},{"speaker":"Scott Rae","startTime":1039.33,"endTime":1039.78,"body":"shaming."},{"speaker":"Scott Rae","startTime":1040.77,"endTime":1041.711,"body":"What is, what is that?"},{"speaker":"Arianna Molloy","startTime":1041.711,"endTime":1043.432,"body":"Yeah. [chuckles] So this is a term I"},{"speaker":"Arianna Molloy","startTime":1043.432,"endTime":1044.05,"body":"came up with,"},{"speaker":"Arianna Molloy","startTime":1044.77,"endTime":1048.491,"body":"to describe what happens- ... When we're dealing with"},{"speaker":"Arianna Molloy","startTime":1048.491,"endTime":1053.811,"body":"different capacity levels. So boundary shaming is when someone"},{"speaker":"Arianna Molloy","startTime":1053.811,"endTime":1057.551,"body":"does not like at w- someone in power over you at work is asking"},{"speaker":"Arianna Molloy","startTime":1057.551,"endTime":1060.231,"body":"you to do more than what your job requires. So it's not that"},{"speaker":"Arianna Molloy","startTime":1060.231,"endTime":1062.971,"body":"you're not doing your work. You're doing your work, but"},{"speaker":"Arianna Molloy","startTime":1062.971,"endTime":1067.291,"body":"there's an ask to do more, and if you say no, you're not,"},{"speaker":"Arianna Molloy","startTime":1067.291,"endTime":1070.412,"body":"you're not viewed as being part of the team. So you might not be"},{"speaker":"Arianna Molloy","startTime":1070.412,"endTime":1073.172,"body":"explicitly penalized, but you're also not the person they call on"},{"speaker":"Arianna Molloy","startTime":1073.172,"endTime":1077.33,"body":"again. And you're looked at as not being all in. So boundary"},{"speaker":"Arianna Molloy","startTime":1077.33,"endTime":1081.391,"body":"shaming is when you try to create a sense of, \"Hey, this is"},{"speaker":"Arianna Molloy","startTime":1081.391,"endTime":1084.451,"body":"sort of where I need to stop,\" and it's not accepted"},{"speaker":"Arianna Molloy","startTime":1085.051,"endTime":1085.971,"body":"in that way."},{"speaker":"Sean McDowell","startTime":1085.971,"endTime":1087.211,"body":"There's probably a whole different element when"},{"speaker":"Sean McDowell","startTime":1087.211,"endTime":1090.412,"body":"you're talking about a Christian parachurch or a church"},{"speaker":"Sean McDowell","startTime":1090.412,"endTime":1091.071,"body":"organization-"},{"speaker":"Arianna Molloy","startTime":1091.071,"endTime":1091.08,"body":"Yeah"},{"speaker":"Sean McDowell","startTime":1091.08,"endTime":1093.571,"body":"... 'cause it's not only you're not all in,"},{"speaker":"Sean McDowell","startTime":1093.571,"endTime":1096.521,"body":"you're not all in on the faith and saving the lost-"},{"speaker":"Arianna Molloy","startTime":1096.521,"endTime":1096.771,"body":"For the kingdom, yeah. [laughs]"},{"speaker":"Sean McDowell","startTime":1096.771,"endTime":1098.932,"body":"... And the king- That adds a layer of what"},{"speaker":"Sean McDowell","startTime":1098.932,"endTime":1099.711,"body":"can really be-"},{"speaker":"Arianna Molloy","startTime":1099.711,"endTime":1099.741,"body":"Mm-hmm"},{"speaker":"Sean McDowell","startTime":1099.741,"endTime":1101.031,"body":"... Spiritual abuse."},{"speaker":"Arianna Molloy","startTime":1101.031,"endTime":1101.751,"body":"Yes."},{"speaker":"Sean McDowell","startTime":1101.751,"endTime":1104.031,"body":"Now, to avoid that, I'm wondering what"},{"speaker":"Sean McDowell","startTime":1104.031,"endTime":1108.051,"body":"advice you have for individuals who maybe feel guilty about"},{"speaker":"Sean McDowell","startTime":1108.051,"endTime":1111.152,"body":"setting bound- setting boundaries in light of kind of"},{"speaker":"Sean McDowell","startTime":1111.152,"endTime":1113.711,"body":"the demanding nature of work or this kind of pressure we're"},{"speaker":"Sean McDowell","startTime":1113.711,"endTime":1115.652,"body":"talking about is being put on them."},{"speaker":"Arianna Molloy","startTime":1115.652,"endTime":1117.58,"body":"Okay, I'm getting really excited."},{"speaker":"Sean McDowell","startTime":1117.58,"endTime":1117.612,"body":"[laughs]"},{"speaker":"Arianna Molloy","startTime":1117.612,"endTime":1119.711,"body":"Are you ready? [laughs]"},{"speaker":"Scott Rae","startTime":1119.711,"endTime":1119.751,"body":"Go for it."},{"speaker":"Arianna Molloy","startTime":1119.751,"endTime":1122.871,"body":"Okay, so here's the deal. There is a way to do"},{"speaker":"Arianna Molloy","startTime":1122.871,"endTime":1125.571,"body":"this, and it- the way is humility."},{"speaker":"Arianna Molloy","startTime":1127.042,"endTime":1130.683,"body":"... If we want to prioritize the virtue of humility, that is the"},{"speaker":"Arianna Molloy","startTime":1130.683,"endTime":1134.042,"body":"compass where we can kind of use to guide us through these really"},{"speaker":"Arianna Molloy","startTime":1134.042,"endTime":1136.042,"body":"complicated terrains. So let me unpack that."},{"speaker":"Sean McDowell","startTime":1136.042,"endTime":1136.183,"body":"Yeah."},{"speaker":"Arianna Molloy","startTime":1136.183,"endTime":1137.823,"body":"There are three components to humility that we"},{"speaker":"Arianna Molloy","startTime":1137.823,"endTime":1141.243,"body":"can see biblically and also in the workplace. So humility,"},{"speaker":"Arianna Molloy","startTime":1141.243,"endTime":1143.523,"body":"number one, is knowing what you're good at"},{"speaker":"Arianna Molloy","startTime":1144.163,"endTime":1147.323,"body":"and what you're not so good at, and not being consumed by either"},{"speaker":"Arianna Molloy","startTime":1147.323,"endTime":1151.243,"body":"of those things. So you know where your strengths are. This"},{"speaker":"Arianna Molloy","startTime":1151.243,"endTime":1154.503,"body":"is part of being a competent communicator. Jesus knew who he"},{"speaker":"Arianna Molloy","startTime":1154.503,"endTime":1158.703,"body":"was, and he was humble. He knew who he was. But h- you also are"},{"speaker":"Arianna Molloy","startTime":1158.703,"endTime":1161.364,"body":"not so distracted by your weaknesses that that's the thing"},{"speaker":"Arianna Molloy","startTime":1161.364,"endTime":1162.943,"body":"you're thinking about all the time. So that's the first"},{"speaker":"Arianna Molloy","startTime":1162.943,"endTime":1166.903,"body":"component. The second is a lifestyle of learning, the"},{"speaker":"Arianna Molloy","startTime":1166.903,"endTime":1169.703,"body":"ability- ... To know there's always more to learn. I think"},{"speaker":"Arianna Molloy","startTime":1169.703,"endTime":1172.894,"body":"it's lovely that one of the names we call Jesus is Teacher."},{"speaker":"Arianna Molloy","startTime":1173.624,"endTime":1175.844,"body":"We're supposed to keep learning, and this means that in the"},{"speaker":"Arianna Molloy","startTime":1175.844,"endTime":1178.823,"body":"workplace, we delegate, we're not defensive if there's other"},{"speaker":"Arianna Molloy","startTime":1178.823,"endTime":1179.364,"body":"ideas,"},{"speaker":"Arianna Molloy","startTime":1180.003,"endTime":1183.243,"body":"and we know that there's more to learn. The last part, so the"},{"speaker":"Arianna Molloy","startTime":1183.243,"endTime":1185.624,"body":"strengths and weaknesses, not being distracted by either one-"},{"speaker":"Sean McDowell","startTime":1185.624,"endTime":1185.844,"body":"Mm-hmm"},{"speaker":"Arianna Molloy","startTime":1185.844,"endTime":1187.303,"body":"... The lifestyle learning, the last"},{"speaker":"Arianna Molloy","startTime":1187.303,"endTime":1190.542,"body":"part is the ability to walk away for a little bit."},{"speaker":"Sean McDowell","startTime":1190.542,"endTime":1191.124,"body":"Mm-hmm."},{"speaker":"Arianna Molloy","startTime":1191.124,"endTime":1195.042,"body":"That we are not the God of the universe. Jesus"},{"speaker":"Arianna Molloy","startTime":1195.042,"endTime":1196.743,"body":"walked away for a little bit-"},{"speaker":"Arianna Molloy","startTime":1197.344,"endTime":1199.763,"body":"... And we get to do that, too. We're supposed to walk humbly"},{"speaker":"Arianna Molloy","startTime":1199.763,"endTime":1204.683,"body":"with him, Micah 6-8. And so what I would say to someone is,"},{"speaker":"Arianna Molloy","startTime":1204.683,"endTime":1209.203,"body":"either we are consumed with the relationship of our caller,"},{"speaker":"Arianna Molloy","startTime":1209.203,"endTime":1213.604,"body":"which is good, or we are consumed by the task of our"},{"speaker":"Arianna Molloy","startTime":1213.604,"endTime":1217.782,"body":"calling, which is not so good. So if someone in the workplace"},{"speaker":"Arianna Molloy","startTime":1217.782,"endTime":1220.083,"body":"is asking you to do more than you should, especially in"},{"speaker":"Arianna Molloy","startTime":1220.083,"endTime":1225.144,"body":"churches and para-churches, my response would be, \"I care so"},{"speaker":"Arianna Molloy","startTime":1225.144,"endTime":1229.282,"body":"deeply about this, that I have to pay attention to my own tank"},{"speaker":"Arianna Molloy","startTime":1229.282,"endTime":1232.663,"body":"right now, and it's getting really low. So here are all the"},{"speaker":"Arianna Molloy","startTime":1232.663,"endTime":1235.344,"body":"things that I'm in charge of currently. What do you suggest I"},{"speaker":"Arianna Molloy","startTime":1235.344,"endTime":1238.223,"body":"take off in order to do this new thing?\""},{"speaker":"Sean McDowell","startTime":1238.844,"endTime":1239.903,"body":"Now, let me, let me follow that."},{"speaker":"Arianna Molloy","startTime":1239.903,"endTime":1239.923,"body":"Of course."},{"speaker":"Sean McDowell","startTime":1239.923,"endTime":1243.203,"body":"Like, w- like, what's hard... It, it is hard,"},{"speaker":"Sean McDowell","startTime":1243.203,"endTime":1243.733,"body":"maybe it's just"},{"speaker":"Sean McDowell","startTime":1244.443,"endTime":1247.884,"body":"my own issue, is, like, there's so many expectations that other"},{"speaker":"Sean McDowell","startTime":1247.884,"endTime":1251.423,"body":"people have that they don't understand what it's like."},{"speaker":"Arianna Molloy","startTime":1251.423,"endTime":1251.884,"body":"Yeah."},{"speaker":"Sean McDowell","startTime":1251.884,"endTime":1253.463,"body":"So I get a million emails. That's an"},{"speaker":"Sean McDowell","startTime":1253.463,"endTime":1255.042,"body":"exaggeration, but every- people are like-"},{"speaker":"Arianna Molloy","startTime":1255.042,"endTime":1256.472,"body":"Probably not too much of an exaggeration."},{"speaker":"Arianna Molloy","startTime":1256.472,"endTime":1256.483,"body":"[laughing]"},{"speaker":"Sean McDowell","startTime":1256.483,"endTime":1259.364,"body":"People are offended if you don't give..."},{"speaker":"Sean McDowell","startTime":1259.364,"endTime":1263.423,"body":"Not most people, but a whole lot of people have complete unfair"},{"speaker":"Sean McDowell","startTime":1263.423,"endTime":1267.003,"body":"expectations. Do you just live with disappointing people? Like,"},{"speaker":"Sean McDowell","startTime":1267.003,"endTime":1269.144,"body":"how do you navigate that? Is that the reality, like, \"I'm"},{"speaker":"Sean McDowell","startTime":1269.144,"endTime":1271.542,"body":"just gonna disappoint people, can't control that. Set"},{"speaker":"Sean McDowell","startTime":1271.542,"endTime":1273.483,"body":"boundaries between them and God\"?"},{"speaker":"Arianna Molloy","startTime":1273.483,"endTime":1276.864,"body":"Yeah. I mean, yeah, I think that we do."},{"speaker":"Arianna Molloy","startTime":1276.864,"endTime":1280.223,"body":"I also think that it's part of communicating the process. So"},{"speaker":"Arianna Molloy","startTime":1280.223,"endTime":1283.624,"body":"something happens when we are in a season of sustained or chronic"},{"speaker":"Arianna Molloy","startTime":1283.624,"endTime":1285.384,"body":"stress. There are three things that happen in our"},{"speaker":"Arianna Molloy","startTime":1285.384,"endTime":1288.483,"body":"communication, but the one that I wanna touch on here is that we"},{"speaker":"Arianna Molloy","startTime":1288.483,"endTime":1292.282,"body":"withdraw. When you're in a season of massive stress, it's a"},{"speaker":"Arianna Molloy","startTime":1292.282,"endTime":1296.443,"body":"survival mechanism to withdraw. Now, withdrawal itself, not a"},{"speaker":"Arianna Molloy","startTime":1296.443,"endTime":1301.663,"body":"bad thing. What's bad is when we don't communicate it. So again,"},{"speaker":"Arianna Molloy","startTime":1301.663,"endTime":1305.003,"body":"every situation's different, but in those... I think many work"},{"speaker":"Arianna Molloy","startTime":1305.003,"endTime":1307.803,"body":"situations, we don't really know what that job involves. You"},{"speaker":"Arianna Molloy","startTime":1307.803,"endTime":1309.963,"body":"know, we think we do. I even remember working as a server at"},{"speaker":"Arianna Molloy","startTime":1309.963,"endTime":1313.303,"body":"a restaurant. I had no clue what was happening in the kitchen"},{"speaker":"Arianna Molloy","startTime":1313.303,"endTime":1316.364,"body":"until I became- ... A server. After that, I'm a much better"},{"speaker":"Arianna Molloy","startTime":1316.364,"endTime":1317.571,"body":"tipper now. [laughing]"},{"speaker":"Sean McDowell","startTime":1317.571,"endTime":1317.732,"body":"[laughing] Yeah."},{"speaker":"Sean McDowell","startTime":1317.732,"endTime":1317.803,"body":"[laughing]"},{"speaker":"Arianna Molloy","startTime":1317.803,"endTime":1319.963,"body":"I just, I fully understand that there's a lot"},{"speaker":"Arianna Molloy","startTime":1319.963,"endTime":1322.763,"body":"going on, you know? And so whether it's a pastor or as a"},{"speaker":"Arianna Molloy","startTime":1322.763,"endTime":1325.763,"body":"professor, I did not realize all the things professors did. I"},{"speaker":"Arianna Molloy","startTime":1325.763,"endTime":1328.923,"body":"didn't realize that teaching is maybe, on a good day, a third of"},{"speaker":"Arianna Molloy","startTime":1328.923,"endTime":1329.583,"body":"what you do."},{"speaker":"Sean McDowell","startTime":1329.583,"endTime":1329.792,"body":"Yeah."},{"speaker":"Arianna Molloy","startTime":1330.523,"endTime":1332.523,"body":"So I think part of it is, yeah, we do have to"},{"speaker":"Arianna Molloy","startTime":1332.523,"endTime":1334.983,"body":"get used to disappointing people, but also taking the"},{"speaker":"Arianna Molloy","startTime":1334.983,"endTime":1337.903,"body":"extra step and trying to communicate, \"Here's where I'm"},{"speaker":"Arianna Molloy","startTime":1337.903,"endTime":1342.163,"body":"at,\" and then their response is not something that we own."},{"speaker":"Sean McDowell","startTime":1343.563,"endTime":1346.403,"body":"That's really helpful. Now, you described"},{"speaker":"Sean McDowell","startTime":1346.403,"endTime":1351.282,"body":"the big myth- ... About humility. What is that?"},{"speaker":"Arianna Molloy","startTime":1351.282,"endTime":1353.523,"body":"I think that, unfortunately, we conflate"},{"speaker":"Arianna Molloy","startTime":1353.523,"endTime":1357.384,"body":"humility with modesty, and those are not the same things. So"},{"speaker":"Arianna Molloy","startTime":1357.384,"endTime":1360.603,"body":"modesty is, you know, not wanting attention, is being,"},{"speaker":"Arianna Molloy","startTime":1362.223,"endTime":1364.282,"body":"If someone, you know, compliments you say sort"},{"speaker":"Arianna Molloy","startTime":1364.282,"endTime":1366.403,"body":"of, \"Oh, thanks,\" and you kind of shrug your shoulders and, you"},{"speaker":"Arianna Molloy","startTime":1366.403,"endTime":1367.532,"body":"know, maybe m- you put your head down."},{"speaker":"Arianna Molloy","startTime":1368.063,"endTime":1368.723,"body":"Humility"},{"speaker":"Arianna Molloy","startTime":1369.943,"endTime":1372.663,"body":"is being aware of what you're good at,"},{"speaker":"Arianna Molloy","startTime":1373.263,"endTime":1376.344,"body":"but you're just not distracted by it, and the way to do that-"},{"speaker":"Arianna Molloy","startTime":1376.344,"endTime":1378.263,"body":"... Is through the spirit of gratitude."},{"speaker":"Arianna Molloy","startTime":1378.813,"endTime":1382.523,"body":"\"Thank you.\" That's such a God thing. You know, la- yesterday,"},{"speaker":"Arianna Molloy","startTime":1382.523,"endTime":1384.763,"body":"I spoke at an event last night, and I have to confess, I was"},{"speaker":"Arianna Molloy","startTime":1384.763,"endTime":1388.292,"body":"exhausted. I was so tired, and the event was so important to"},{"speaker":"Arianna Molloy","startTime":1388.292,"endTime":1390.243,"body":"these people, but they were also running a little bit late, and"},{"speaker":"Arianna Molloy","startTime":1390.243,"endTime":1390.693,"body":"in my mind-"},{"speaker":"Sean McDowell","startTime":1390.693,"endTime":1390.713,"body":"[chuckles]"},{"speaker":"Arianna Molloy","startTime":1390.713,"endTime":1392.183,"body":"... I was like, \"Oh, my gosh, I need to get home"},{"speaker":"Arianna Molloy","startTime":1392.183,"endTime":1392.932,"body":"to my five-year-old."},{"speaker":"Sean McDowell","startTime":1392.932,"endTime":1392.953,"body":"[laughing]"},{"speaker":"Arianna Molloy","startTime":1392.953,"endTime":1394.743,"body":"I'm gonna miss his bedtime!\" And,"},{"speaker":"Arianna Molloy","startTime":1395.583,"endTime":1398.763,"body":"and I just thought, I had this moment of, \"Okay, but I'm here"},{"speaker":"Arianna Molloy","startTime":1398.763,"endTime":1402.282,"body":"to do this right now.\" And they were kind, and they had kind"},{"speaker":"Arianna Molloy","startTime":1402.282,"endTime":1405.042,"body":"responses to me. Rather than holding tight to those kind"},{"speaker":"Arianna Molloy","startTime":1405.042,"endTime":1408.824,"body":"responses and treasuring them in my heart as my own, I hold them"},{"speaker":"Arianna Molloy","startTime":1408.824,"endTime":1411.663,"body":"with an open hand and say, \"Thank you so much. I'm so glad"},{"speaker":"Arianna Molloy","startTime":1411.663,"endTime":1414.443,"body":"it was a blessing to you.\" And then I consciously decide to not"},{"speaker":"Arianna Molloy","startTime":1414.443,"endTime":1415.243,"body":"think about it again-"},{"speaker":"Arianna Molloy","startTime":1415.773,"endTime":1418.344,"body":"... Because I don't wanna hold it so tightly- ... Like manna"},{"speaker":"Arianna Molloy","startTime":1418.344,"endTime":1420.763,"body":"the day afterwards."},{"speaker":"Sean McDowell","startTime":1420.763,"endTime":1424.282,"body":"Well said. How can we help people understand"},{"speaker":"Sean McDowell","startTime":1424.282,"endTime":1428.803,"body":"the contribution that their work makes to their communities and"},{"speaker":"Sean McDowell","startTime":1428.803,"endTime":1432.864,"body":"ultimately to God's kingdom? Maybe some examples of what it"},{"speaker":"Sean McDowell","startTime":1432.864,"endTime":1436.063,"body":"looks like so people can grasp this."},{"speaker":"Arianna Molloy","startTime":1436.063,"endTime":1438.644,"body":"Yeah, I love that. I love the way we think"},{"speaker":"Arianna Molloy","startTime":1438.644,"endTime":1443.303,"body":"about work as an opportunity to, scatter the seeds, till the"},{"speaker":"Arianna Molloy","startTime":1443.303,"endTime":1446.303,"body":"soil. It's not our job to necessarily be in charge of this"},{"speaker":"Arianna Molloy","startTime":1446.303,"endTime":1449.063,"body":"little seedling all the way till it becomes a tree. We figure"},{"speaker":"Arianna Molloy","startTime":1449.063,"endTime":1451.803,"body":"out, what is our job? Maybe my job is just to locate the seeds,"},{"speaker":"Arianna Molloy","startTime":1451.803,"endTime":1454.503,"body":"and it's someone else's job to water them, someone else's job"},{"speaker":"Arianna Molloy","startTime":1454.503,"endTime":1456.763,"body":"to prune them, it's someone else's job to cultivate them."},{"speaker":"Arianna Molloy","startTime":1456.763,"endTime":1460.203,"body":"And so as it relates to work, there's a lot of work that's not"},{"speaker":"Arianna Molloy","startTime":1460.203,"endTime":1464.103,"body":"very romantic. I mean, I feel so called to be a professor here. I"},{"speaker":"Arianna Molloy","startTime":1464.103,"endTime":1466.723,"body":"mean, so just the other... Every once in a while, I hold my hands"},{"speaker":"Arianna Molloy","startTime":1466.723,"endTime":1469.844,"body":"open and I'm like, \"Okay, Lord, this is yours. I don't ever"},{"speaker":"Arianna Molloy","startTime":1469.844,"endTime":1472.824,"body":"wanna hold tightly to it. Do you still want me here?\" And I'm"},{"speaker":"Arianna Molloy","startTime":1472.824,"endTime":1475.603,"body":"walking on Biola's campus, and this is a little unusual, but"},{"speaker":"Arianna Molloy","startTime":1475.603,"endTime":1478.644,"body":"not that unusual, and there's a group of students just standing"},{"speaker":"Arianna Molloy","startTime":1478.644,"endTime":1481.723,"body":"around, praying. I kind of chuckle. I walk a little"},{"speaker":"Arianna Molloy","startTime":1481.723,"endTime":1485.723,"body":"farther. There's a second group of students praying on Metzger"},{"speaker":"Arianna Molloy","startTime":1485.723,"endTime":1486.603,"body":"Lawn for each other."},{"speaker":"Sean McDowell","startTime":1486.603,"endTime":1487.255,"body":"God, I love that."},{"speaker":"Arianna Molloy","startTime":1487.255,"endTime":1488.915,"body":"... I walk a little farther, and I hear these"},{"speaker":"Arianna Molloy","startTime":1488.915,"endTime":1492.036,"body":"students talking about- ... What the resurrection of Jesus means"},{"speaker":"Arianna Molloy","startTime":1492.036,"endTime":1494.016,"body":"and how we integrate that into understanding the birth of"},{"speaker":"Arianna Molloy","startTime":1494.016,"endTime":1497.455,"body":"Jesus, and I just start to laugh. And I w- I walk a little"},{"speaker":"Arianna Molloy","startTime":1497.455,"endTime":1499.516,"body":"farther, there's a third group of students praying. Now, this"},{"speaker":"Arianna Molloy","startTime":1499.516,"endTime":1502.155,"body":"is, this is not necessarily the typical day, but it's not"},{"speaker":"Arianna Molloy","startTime":1502.155,"endTime":1503.066,"body":"atypical either."},{"speaker":"Arianna Molloy","startTime":1503.675,"endTime":1507.776,"body":"And so for me, I think about I can't change the lives of every"},{"speaker":"Arianna Molloy","startTime":1507.776,"endTime":1511.415,"body":"single person, but every person that comes into the door, if I"},{"speaker":"Arianna Molloy","startTime":1511.415,"endTime":1514.375,"body":"can help them feel seen and heard, that's part of what makes"},{"speaker":"Arianna Molloy","startTime":1514.375,"endTime":1517.296,"body":"my calling feel fulfilled. I think about the callings that my"},{"speaker":"Arianna Molloy","startTime":1517.296,"endTime":1521.096,"body":"parents had. My dad is a pastor through and through, but he was"},{"speaker":"Arianna Molloy","startTime":1521.096,"endTime":1524.715,"body":"also a real estate agent, so he found ways to use his pastoral"},{"speaker":"Arianna Molloy","startTime":1524.715,"endTime":1528.516,"body":"skill by being a chaplain, being a first responder- ... Having a"},{"speaker":"Arianna Molloy","startTime":1528.516,"endTime":1531.276,"body":"group of guys that he met with for over 20 years."},{"speaker":"Scott Rae","startTime":1531.276,"endTime":1531.846,"body":"That's great."},{"speaker":"Sean McDowell","startTime":1531.846,"endTime":1531.895,"body":"Yeah."},{"speaker":"Arianna Molloy","startTime":1531.895,"endTime":1534.255,"body":"My mom in the same way of her own calling. So"},{"speaker":"Arianna Molloy","startTime":1534.255,"endTime":1537.056,"body":"I guess I would say work isn't always romantic-"},{"speaker":"Arianna Molloy","startTime":1537.625,"endTime":1538.276,"body":"... But so"},{"speaker":"Arianna Molloy","startTime":1538.836,"endTime":1540.836,"body":"in the same way calling is looked at, there's metaphors"},{"speaker":"Arianna Molloy","startTime":1540.836,"endTime":1544.255,"body":"about calling that are both romantic love of falling in love"},{"speaker":"Arianna Molloy","startTime":1544.255,"endTime":1547.494,"body":"and romantic love as committed love. So I interv- I... One"},{"speaker":"Arianna Molloy","startTime":1547.494,"endTime":1548.476,"body":"more, do we have time for another story?"},{"speaker":"Sean McDowell","startTime":1548.476,"endTime":1549.346,"body":"Yeah, please."},{"speaker":"Arianna Molloy","startTime":1549.346,"endTime":1550.955,"body":"Okay, good. So I interviewed an NFL coach one"},{"speaker":"Arianna Molloy","startTime":1550.955,"endTime":1551.105,"body":"time"},{"speaker":"Arianna Molloy","startTime":1552.175,"endTime":1554.994,"body":"who felt called to be an NFL coach, and so I was a little bit"},{"speaker":"Arianna Molloy","startTime":1554.994,"endTime":1557.556,"body":"nervous to meet with him, and I said, \"So, you know, what do"},{"speaker":"Arianna Molloy","startTime":1557.556,"endTime":1560.234,"body":"you- what does a bad day look like? Like, I heard about the"},{"speaker":"Arianna Molloy","startTime":1560.234,"endTime":1562.994,"body":"good days, but when you're having a hard day with your"},{"speaker":"Arianna Molloy","startTime":1562.994,"endTime":1566.276,"body":"team, with the guys that you're coaching, like, what does it"},{"speaker":"Arianna Molloy","startTime":1566.276,"endTime":1568.536,"body":"look like?\" And he's like, \"What do you mean?\" [laughing]"},{"speaker":"Sean McDowell","startTime":1568.536,"endTime":1568.556,"body":"[laughing]"},{"speaker":"Arianna Molloy","startTime":1568.556,"endTime":1570.244,"body":"So I got a little bit nervous. [laughing]"},{"speaker":"Scott Rae","startTime":1570.244,"endTime":1570.816,"body":"[laughing]"},{"speaker":"Arianna Molloy","startTime":1570.816,"endTime":1572.675,"body":"I backed up. I'm like, \"Well, you know, on"},{"speaker":"Arianna Molloy","startTime":1572.675,"endTime":1575.734,"body":"the hard days...\" And he looks at me, and he says, \"I decide. I"},{"speaker":"Arianna Molloy","startTime":1575.734,"endTime":1578.796,"body":"just decide. Have you ever heard that love is a decision? So I"},{"speaker":"Arianna Molloy","startTime":1578.796,"endTime":1581.234,"body":"think to myself, if I'm really called to be here, I just"},{"speaker":"Arianna Molloy","startTime":1581.234,"endTime":1582.645,"body":"decide.\" [laughing]"},{"speaker":"Sean McDowell","startTime":1582.645,"endTime":1582.645,"body":"[laughing]"},{"speaker":"Scott Rae","startTime":1582.645,"endTime":1582.655,"body":"[laughing]"},{"speaker":"Arianna Molloy","startTime":1582.655,"endTime":1584.476,"body":"And of course, you know, now in my family, when"},{"speaker":"Arianna Molloy","startTime":1584.476,"endTime":1587.685,"body":"we're having a hard day, we kind of jokingly say, \"Just decide!\""},{"speaker":"Sean McDowell","startTime":1587.685,"endTime":1587.695,"body":"[laughing]"},{"speaker":"Arianna Molloy","startTime":1587.695,"endTime":1589.935,"body":"But I think that, again, this is something I"},{"speaker":"Arianna Molloy","startTime":1589.935,"endTime":1592.766,"body":"wish that- ... College students in particular would be able to"},{"speaker":"Arianna Molloy","startTime":1592.766,"endTime":1593.766,"body":"digest."},{"speaker":"Scott Rae","startTime":1593.766,"endTime":1593.766,"body":"[chuckles]"},{"speaker":"Arianna Molloy","startTime":1593.766,"endTime":1597.155,"body":"There are a lot of days that are not going to be"},{"speaker":"Arianna Molloy","startTime":1597.155,"endTime":1598.375,"body":"romantic days."},{"speaker":"Scott Rae","startTime":1598.375,"endTime":1599.135,"body":"Right."},{"speaker":"Arianna Molloy","startTime":1599.135,"endTime":1601.455,"body":"That doesn't mean you're not called, and also"},{"speaker":"Arianna Molloy","startTime":1601.455,"endTime":1604.734,"body":"because calling is a process, just because on that day you"},{"speaker":"Arianna Molloy","startTime":1604.734,"endTime":1607.615,"body":"feel like nothing happened doesn't mean something didn't"},{"speaker":"Arianna Molloy","startTime":1607.615,"endTime":1607.965,"body":"happen."},{"speaker":"Sean McDowell","startTime":1609.115,"endTime":1610.955,"body":"Well, what you keep coming back to is just"},{"speaker":"Sean McDowell","startTime":1610.955,"endTime":1614.336,"body":"perspective, right? I'm tired. Do I feel like speaking at this"},{"speaker":"Sean McDowell","startTime":1614.336,"endTime":1618.556,"body":"event? I'm gonna make a choice to contribute and do my best"},{"speaker":"Sean McDowell","startTime":1618.556,"endTime":1621.895,"body":"here. I'm tired at work, like, a lot... And, and this coach,"},{"speaker":"Sean McDowell","startTime":1621.895,"endTime":1622.705,"body":"like, \"Just decide.\""},{"speaker":"Arianna Molloy","startTime":1622.705,"endTime":1622.734,"body":"[laughing]"},{"speaker":"Sean McDowell","startTime":1622.734,"endTime":1623.796,"body":"Now, it's not always just"},{"speaker":"Sean McDowell","startTime":1624.316,"endTime":1625.234,"body":"flip the switch-"},{"speaker":"Arianna Molloy","startTime":1625.234,"endTime":1625.244,"body":"Yeah"},{"speaker":"Sean McDowell","startTime":1625.244,"endTime":1627.496,"body":"... On and off. That's why he's a coach. But we"},{"speaker":"Sean McDowell","startTime":1627.496,"endTime":1630.155,"body":"have agency. We can make choice, and that's a lot of our"},{"speaker":"Sean McDowell","startTime":1630.155,"endTime":1634.016,"body":"happiness and our sense of calling amidst when maybe not"},{"speaker":"Sean McDowell","startTime":1634.016,"endTime":1637.576,"body":"even... You said a lot of our work, maybe most of our work is"},{"speaker":"Sean McDowell","startTime":1637.576,"endTime":1638.476,"body":"not romantic. [chuckles]"},{"speaker":"Arianna Molloy","startTime":1638.476,"endTime":1638.976,"body":"Sure."},{"speaker":"Sean McDowell","startTime":1638.976,"endTime":1640.536,"body":"But that's a piece of it, and that's okay."},{"speaker":"Sean McDowell","startTime":1640.536,"endTime":1642.346,"body":"That's a part of, part of a calling."},{"speaker":"Sean McDowell","startTime":1643.296,"endTime":1646.255,"body":"Maybe, maybe give us some immediate steps individuals"},{"speaker":"Sean McDowell","startTime":1646.255,"endTime":1646.846,"body":"could take"},{"speaker":"Sean McDowell","startTime":1647.375,"endTime":1653.036,"body":"to begin transforming their work into a sustainable calling. So"},{"speaker":"Sean McDowell","startTime":1653.036,"endTime":1656.855,"body":"somebody already has a job or a career, and they wanna take that"},{"speaker":"Sean McDowell","startTime":1656.855,"endTime":1660.435,"body":"next step, like that financial planner you talked about. What"},{"speaker":"Sean McDowell","startTime":1660.435,"endTime":1661.516,"body":"might that look like?"},{"speaker":"Arianna Molloy","startTime":1661.516,"endTime":1664.125,"body":"Yeah, really good question. So again, because"},{"speaker":"Arianna Molloy","startTime":1664.125,"endTime":1667.895,"body":"a calling is relationship with yourself,"},{"speaker":"Arianna Molloy","startTime":1667.895,"endTime":1670.615,"body":"getting to know who you are, relationship with the caller,"},{"speaker":"Arianna Molloy","startTime":1670.615,"endTime":1673.255,"body":"God, and relationship with the community, it's all"},{"speaker":"Arianna Molloy","startTime":1673.255,"endTime":1676.184,"body":"process-based. It's not just about the outcome. It's about"},{"speaker":"Arianna Molloy","startTime":1676.184,"endTime":1679.615,"body":"the process that gets us there. So I think things I would"},{"speaker":"Arianna Molloy","startTime":1679.615,"endTime":1683.695,"body":"suggest, build your own board of directors. Think of three to"},{"speaker":"Arianna Molloy","startTime":1683.695,"endTime":1686.836,"body":"five people who you admire. Proverbs tells us that wise"},{"speaker":"Arianna Molloy","startTime":1686.836,"endTime":1689.816,"body":"kings have wise counselors, so find three to five people who"},{"speaker":"Arianna Molloy","startTime":1689.816,"endTime":1692.796,"body":"you admire. Figure out why you would want them on your board."},{"speaker":"Arianna Molloy","startTime":1692.796,"endTime":1694.496,"body":"Let them know they're on your board. [laughing]"},{"speaker":"Sean McDowell","startTime":1694.496,"endTime":1694.505,"body":"[laughing]"},{"speaker":"Arianna Molloy","startTime":1694.505,"endTime":1696.135,"body":"Ask them, \"Hey, can I meet with you"},{"speaker":"Arianna Molloy","startTime":1696.135,"endTime":1697.226,"body":"occasionally?\""},{"speaker":"Scott Rae","startTime":1697.226,"endTime":1697.255,"body":"Yeah."},{"speaker":"Arianna Molloy","startTime":1697.255,"endTime":1699.255,"body":"To check in with them. And I know this"},{"speaker":"Arianna Molloy","startTime":1699.255,"endTime":1703.036,"body":"doesn't sound that exciting, but it's so true- stay worded,"},{"speaker":"Arianna Molloy","startTime":1703.036,"endTime":1704.316,"body":"rooted in the Bible."},{"speaker":"Arianna Molloy","startTime":1705.775,"endTime":1708.755,"body":"Really, it is the living, breathing Word of God, and I"},{"speaker":"Arianna Molloy","startTime":1708.755,"endTime":1712.025,"body":"don't think that we can grow without staying in it."},{"speaker":"Arianna Molloy","startTime":1712.715,"endTime":1716.836,"body":"And the third thing is take risks in your developing, in"},{"speaker":"Arianna Molloy","startTime":1716.836,"endTime":1718.675,"body":"the skills that you're developing and the passions that"},{"speaker":"Arianna Molloy","startTime":1718.675,"endTime":1721.596,"body":"you're developing. So you might feel called to be a surgeon, but"},{"speaker":"Arianna Molloy","startTime":1721.596,"endTime":1724.875,"body":"you're not gonna walk into the surgical room on day one. You"},{"speaker":"Arianna Molloy","startTime":1724.875,"endTime":1727.135,"body":"actually have to go through training, and that's why I think"},{"speaker":"Arianna Molloy","startTime":1727.135,"endTime":1730.556,"body":"college and other internships and first jobs or experiences,"},{"speaker":"Arianna Molloy","startTime":1730.556,"endTime":1733.275,"body":"but I even- are important, but I even think of people who"},{"speaker":"Arianna Molloy","startTime":1733.275,"endTime":1736.875,"body":"are in job transitions. This book isn't just for right out of"},{"speaker":"Arianna Molloy","startTime":1736.875,"endTime":1740.415,"body":"college. It's for people who are in their 30s and 40s or people"},{"speaker":"Arianna Molloy","startTime":1740.415,"endTime":1743.255,"body":"who are even in the retirement stage, and what do you do when"},{"speaker":"Arianna Molloy","startTime":1743.255,"endTime":1746.056,"body":"you're not doing paid work anymore, but you still wanna do"},{"speaker":"Arianna Molloy","startTime":1746.056,"endTime":1749.576,"body":"purposeful work? And it is about a process, finding those little"},{"speaker":"Arianna Molloy","startTime":1749.576,"endTime":1750.935,"body":"steps along the way."},{"speaker":"Sean McDowell","startTime":1750.935,"endTime":1752.016,"body":"Real fast, before you-"},{"speaker":"Scott Rae","startTime":1752.016,"endTime":1752.115,"body":"Go for it"},{"speaker":"Sean McDowell","startTime":1752.115,"endTime":1754.155,"body":"... Ask one more question. You've twice, I think"},{"speaker":"Sean McDowell","startTime":1754.155,"endTime":1757.596,"body":"you've said, like, risk, or you've used- ... That term. I"},{"speaker":"Sean McDowell","startTime":1757.596,"endTime":1759.836,"body":"just have to highlight that 'cause even professionally, for"},{"speaker":"Sean McDowell","startTime":1759.836,"endTime":1762.296,"body":"me right now, there's a few opportunities. I'm like, \"That"},{"speaker":"Sean McDowell","startTime":1762.296,"endTime":1764.296,"body":"sounds awesome, but there's a risk,\" and it's-"},{"speaker":"Arianna Molloy","startTime":1764.296,"endTime":1764.306,"body":"Yeah"},{"speaker":"Sean McDowell","startTime":1764.306,"endTime":1767.316,"body":"... Easy to not do that. But I think that's"},{"speaker":"Sean McDowell","startTime":1767.316,"endTime":1770.755,"body":"where faith comes in, and that purpose and that meaning comes"},{"speaker":"Sean McDowell","startTime":1770.755,"endTime":1773.596,"body":"in- ... Taking those risks. So I love that you've"},{"speaker":"Sean McDowell","startTime":1773.596,"endTime":1774.935,"body":"highlighted that a few times."},{"speaker":"Arianna Molloy","startTime":1774.935,"endTime":1775.476,"body":"Yeah."},{"speaker":"Scott Rae","startTime":1775.476,"endTime":1778.576,"body":"Yeah. One, one final question here."},{"speaker":"Scott Rae","startTime":1780.385,"endTime":1782.576,"body":"What do you hope, if you could, if you, if you could have"},{"speaker":"Scott Rae","startTime":1782.576,"endTime":1786.556,"body":"readers take one thing, primary thing, away from your book-"},{"speaker":"Scott Rae","startTime":1787.375,"endTime":1791.215,"body":"... To help them have a sustainable work life- ... What"},{"speaker":"Scott Rae","startTime":1791.215,"endTime":1792.455,"body":"would it be?"},{"speaker":"Arianna Molloy","startTime":1794.155,"endTime":1795.355,"body":"Because I believe we were made in the"},{"speaker":"Arianna Molloy","startTime":1795.355,"endTime":1799.336,"body":"image of God, we were made to thirst for purposeful creating."},{"speaker":"Arianna Molloy","startTime":1799.336,"endTime":1803.816,"body":"Before sin entered the picture, God worked by creating, and so"},{"speaker":"Arianna Molloy","startTime":1804.496,"endTime":1807.395,"body":"for those that are thirsting to feel that sense of purpose,"},{"speaker":"Arianna Molloy","startTime":1807.395,"endTime":1810.675,"body":"that's a good thing. Now we get to figure out how to do"},{"speaker":"Arianna Molloy","startTime":1810.675,"endTime":1814.296,"body":"it in a healthy way. And so my hope would be that we would not"},{"speaker":"Arianna Molloy","startTime":1814.296,"endTime":1816.895,"body":"be afraid of burnout necessarily, because it's not"},{"speaker":"Arianna Molloy","startTime":1816.895,"endTime":1819.596,"body":"really a category, it's a spectrum. Like, where [chuckles]"},{"speaker":"Arianna Molloy","startTime":1819.596,"endTime":1822.875,"body":"are you on the sliding scale of burnout? It's not, \"Am I burnt"},{"speaker":"Arianna Molloy","startTime":1822.875,"endTime":1823.125,"body":"out?\""},{"speaker":"Scott Rae","startTime":1823.125,"endTime":1823.135,"body":"Yeah."},{"speaker":"Arianna Molloy","startTime":1823.135,"endTime":1825.476,"body":"It's, where am I on that scale? So paying"},{"speaker":"Arianna Molloy","startTime":1825.476,"endTime":1828.796,"body":"attention to the way you talk about things or other people."},{"speaker":"Arianna Molloy","startTime":1828.796,"endTime":1833.496,"body":"Has cynicism entered into your speech more often than empathy?"},{"speaker":"Arianna Molloy","startTime":1833.496,"endTime":1836.016,"body":"That's a really good sign you're not on the good road."},{"speaker":"Arianna Molloy","startTime":1836.655,"endTime":1839.895,"body":"So that's an important thing to pay attention to. And then the"},{"speaker":"Arianna Molloy","startTime":1839.895,"endTime":1843.115,"body":"other thing that I would hope is that we begin to value"},{"speaker":"Arianna Molloy","startTime":1843.915,"endTime":1848.734,"body":"the role of rest and reflection as we pursue healthy work. We"},{"speaker":"Arianna Molloy","startTime":1848.734,"endTime":1852.215,"body":"cannot have healthy work without healthy rest. So at the end of"},{"speaker":"Arianna Molloy","startTime":1852.215,"endTime":1854.994,"body":"the day, I think this is what I would say-... One of my favorite"},{"speaker":"Arianna Molloy","startTime":1854.994,"endTime":1859.215,"body":"stories is about a person who fell into a hole. [chuckles] And"},{"speaker":"Arianna Molloy","startTime":1859.215,"endTime":1861.734,"body":"it's a deep, dark hole, and he can't get out. He's tried so"},{"speaker":"Arianna Molloy","startTime":1861.734,"endTime":1865.476,"body":"hard, and w- oh, this guy walks by, and it's, it's a doctor. And"},{"speaker":"Arianna Molloy","startTime":1865.476,"endTime":1867.976,"body":"so he's like- \"Hey, Doc, can you help me get out of the hole?\""},{"speaker":"Arianna Molloy","startTime":1867.976,"endTime":1870.076,"body":"And the doctor says, \"Absolutely!\" And he signs a"},{"speaker":"Arianna Molloy","startTime":1870.076,"endTime":1873.435,"body":"little prescription pad and drops it down the hole. And the"},{"speaker":"Arianna Molloy","startTime":1873.435,"endTime":1875.505,"body":"guy who's in the hole is like- \"Oh, my gosh, I can't believe"},{"speaker":"Arianna Molloy","startTime":1875.505,"endTime":1878.885,"body":"this.\" And then a pastor walks by, his pastor, and he's like-"},{"speaker":"Arianna Molloy","startTime":1878.885,"endTime":1881.296,"body":"\"Hey, Pastor, can you help me get out of this hole?\" And the"},{"speaker":"Arianna Molloy","startTime":1881.296,"endTime":1883.476,"body":"pastor says, \"Absolutely, let me pray for you.\" And it's this"},{"speaker":"Arianna Molloy","startTime":1883.476,"endTime":1886.255,"body":"beautiful, poetic prayer, but then after he's done, he leaves."},{"speaker":"Arianna Molloy","startTime":1887.056,"endTime":1891.955,"body":"And then a friend walks by, and he's like- \"Hey, I'm so tired. I"},{"speaker":"Arianna Molloy","startTime":1891.955,"endTime":1894.705,"body":"don't know how to get out of here. Can you please help me?\""},{"speaker":"Arianna Molloy","startTime":1894.705,"endTime":1897.076,"body":"And the friend says, \"Absolutely,\" and he jumps in"},{"speaker":"Arianna Molloy","startTime":1897.076,"endTime":1900.415,"body":"the hole. Well, the guy is like- \"Oh, my gosh, now we're both"},{"speaker":"Arianna Molloy","startTime":1900.415,"endTime":1902.586,"body":"stuck in the hole. Why did you do that?\" [laughing]"},{"speaker":"Scott Rae","startTime":1902.586,"endTime":1902.675,"body":"[laughing]"},{"speaker":"Arianna Molloy","startTime":1902.675,"endTime":1903.455,"body":"And the friend says,"},{"speaker":"Arianna Molloy","startTime":1903.976,"endTime":1908.155,"body":"\"Yes, but I've been down this hole, and I know the way out.\""},{"speaker":"Arianna Molloy","startTime":1908.155,"endTime":1909.715,"body":"And I've been in a place of burnout."},{"speaker":"Scott Rae","startTime":1909.715,"endTime":1910.015,"body":"Yeah."},{"speaker":"Arianna Molloy","startTime":1910.015,"endTime":1911.935,"body":"I've interviewed people who've had"},{"speaker":"Arianna Molloy","startTime":1911.935,"endTime":1915.775,"body":"burnout, and it's easy to feel like you will never get out,"},{"speaker":"Arianna Molloy","startTime":1915.775,"endTime":1918.734,"body":"that this is how life is, that maybe to hope for something else"},{"speaker":"Arianna Molloy","startTime":1918.734,"endTime":1923.375,"body":"is immature or unwise. It's not. You can get out, and there's a"},{"speaker":"Arianna Molloy","startTime":1923.375,"endTime":1924.715,"body":"way to do it."},{"speaker":"Scott Rae","startTime":1924.715,"endTime":1926.955,"body":"Well, and I think this book will help show"},{"speaker":"Scott Rae","startTime":1926.955,"endTime":1927.775,"body":"you the way out."},{"speaker":"Arianna Molloy","startTime":1927.775,"endTime":1927.786,"body":"I hope so."},{"speaker":"Scott Rae","startTime":1927.786,"endTime":1930.255,"body":"'Cause I appreciate you jumping in the"},{"speaker":"Scott Rae","startTime":1930.255,"endTime":1931.056,"body":"hole- [laughing]"},{"speaker":"Arianna Molloy","startTime":1931.056,"endTime":1932.195,"body":"[laughing] It's my pleasure"},{"speaker":"Scott Rae","startTime":1932.195,"endTime":1932.726,"body":"... With people with this book."},{"speaker":"Arianna Molloy","startTime":1932.726,"endTime":1932.726,"body":"My pleasure."},{"speaker":"Scott Rae","startTime":1932.726,"endTime":1934.056,"body":"'Cause that's, 'cause that's what you've done."},{"speaker":"Scott Rae","startTime":1934.056,"endTime":1935.336,"body":"You've shown people the way out here."},{"speaker":"Arianna Molloy","startTime":1935.336,"endTime":1935.895,"body":"Thank you."},{"speaker":"Scott Rae","startTime":1935.895,"endTime":1938.036,"body":"Super helpful. And I think it's, it's really"},{"speaker":"Scott Rae","startTime":1938.036,"endTime":1941.155,"body":"important, I think, too, that to recognize that, you know, every"},{"speaker":"Scott Rae","startTime":1941.155,"endTime":1942.755,"body":"job has meaning to it."},{"speaker":"Arianna Molloy","startTime":1942.755,"endTime":1943.395,"body":"Mm-hmm."},{"speaker":"Scott Rae","startTime":1943.395,"endTime":1946.855,"body":"We just don't recognize it. And help even,"},{"speaker":"Scott Rae","startTime":1946.855,"endTime":1950.734,"body":"even the most menial jobs, say, a, you know, janitorial service"},{"speaker":"Scott Rae","startTime":1950.734,"endTime":1954.635,"body":"in a hospital, for example, that has huge meaning and"},{"speaker":"Scott Rae","startTime":1954.635,"endTime":1957.556,"body":"significance because if those janitorial people don't do their"},{"speaker":"Scott Rae","startTime":1957.556,"endTime":1960.205,"body":"job, the hospital closes down."},{"speaker":"Arianna Molloy","startTime":1960.205,"endTime":1960.615,"body":"That's right."},{"speaker":"Scott Rae","startTime":1960.615,"endTime":1963.816,"body":"And germs run rampant. And doctors can't do"},{"speaker":"Scott Rae","startTime":1963.816,"endTime":1965.655,"body":"their jobs. Nurses can't do their jobs."},{"speaker":"Arianna Molloy","startTime":1965.655,"endTime":1965.775,"body":"Mm-hmm."},{"speaker":"Scott Rae","startTime":1965.775,"endTime":1968.316,"body":"So I think that's, that's part of what's incumbent"},{"speaker":"Scott Rae","startTime":1968.316,"endTime":1971.494,"body":"on us in our churches and as we're training the next"},{"speaker":"Scott Rae","startTime":1971.494,"endTime":1974.115,"body":"generation of church, you know, church leaders at Talbot,"},{"speaker":"Scott Rae","startTime":1974.755,"endTime":1979.734,"body":"to be able to help people in specific professions recognize"},{"speaker":"Scott Rae","startTime":1979.734,"endTime":1981.816,"body":"the meaning that God has endowed-"},{"speaker":"Arianna Molloy","startTime":1981.816,"endTime":1981.826,"body":"Mm-hmm"},{"speaker":"Scott Rae","startTime":1981.826,"endTime":1983.976,"body":"... For that particular profession, so."},{"speaker":"Arianna Molloy","startTime":1983.976,"endTime":1985.935,"body":"And what's so cool is, as we pursue the"},{"speaker":"Arianna Molloy","startTime":1985.935,"endTime":1989.435,"body":"calling, we get to know the caller more. I was thinking of a"},{"speaker":"Arianna Molloy","startTime":1989.435,"endTime":1992.476,"body":"CEO that I interviewed, and she was describing to me being a mom"},{"speaker":"Arianna Molloy","startTime":1992.476,"endTime":1996.395,"body":"of five kids, doing homeschool for all of them, having all"},{"speaker":"Arianna Molloy","startTime":1996.395,"endTime":1999.635,"body":"these ideas for the work she wanted to do, and she somehow"},{"speaker":"Arianna Molloy","startTime":1999.635,"endTime":2003.375,"body":"found a way to do it. And as she did, it restored and"},{"speaker":"Arianna Molloy","startTime":2003.375,"endTime":2005.316,"body":"re-energized her relationship with God."},{"speaker":"Scott Rae","startTime":2005.316,"endTime":2005.326,"body":"Yeah."},{"speaker":"Arianna Molloy","startTime":2005.326,"endTime":2006.935,"body":"And now she's, like, doing amazing things all"},{"speaker":"Arianna Molloy","startTime":2006.935,"endTime":2008.395,"body":"over the world. [chuckles]"},{"speaker":"Scott Rae","startTime":2008.395,"endTime":2011.295,"body":"That's great stuff. Well, again, I want to commend"},{"speaker":"Scott Rae","startTime":2011.295,"endTime":2014.855,"body":"to our listeners, Ariana Malloy, Healthy Calling- From Toxic"},{"speaker":"Scott Rae","startTime":2014.855,"endTime":2017.715,"body":"Burnout to Sustainable Work. Thanks for jumping in the hole"},{"speaker":"Scott Rae","startTime":2017.715,"endTime":2019.734,"body":"with people and showing them the way out."},{"speaker":"Arianna Molloy","startTime":2019.734,"endTime":2019.955,"body":"My pleasure."},{"speaker":"Scott Rae","startTime":2019.955,"endTime":2023.435,"body":"That's great stuff. This has been an episode of the"},{"speaker":"Scott Rae","startTime":2023.435,"endTime":2026.135,"body":"podcast Think Biblically- Conversations on Faith and"},{"speaker":"Scott Rae","startTime":2026.135,"endTime":2028.895,"body":"Culture. It's brought to you by Talbot School of Theology, Biola"},{"speaker":"Scott Rae","startTime":2028.895,"endTime":2031.915,"body":"University, offering programs in Southern California and online,"},{"speaker":"Scott Rae","startTime":2031.915,"endTime":2034.976,"body":"master's programs in all sorts of different fields, in Old"},{"speaker":"Scott Rae","startTime":2034.976,"endTime":2037.755,"body":"Testament, New Testament, theology, philosophy,"},{"speaker":"Scott Rae","startTime":2037.755,"endTime":2040.955,"body":"apologetics, pastoral ministry, marriage and family. I think"},{"speaker":"Scott Rae","startTime":2040.955,"endTime":2041.655,"body":"I've missed a couple somewhere."},{"speaker":"Sean McDowell","startTime":2041.655,"endTime":2042.715,"body":"You got them, man. You got them."},{"speaker":"Scott Rae","startTime":2042.715,"endTime":2045.615,"body":"I think I maybe... And undergrad programs, both in"},{"speaker":"Scott Rae","startTime":2045.615,"endTime":2049.735,"body":"person and online. Visit biola.edu/talbot in order to"},{"speaker":"Scott Rae","startTime":2049.735,"endTime":2053.536,"body":"learn more. Submit comments, ask questions, or make suggestions"},{"speaker":"Scott Rae","startTime":2053.536,"endTime":2056.556,"body":"on issues you'd like us to cover or guests you'd like us to"},{"speaker":"Scott Rae","startTime":2056.556,"endTime":2060.976,"body":"consider. Email us at thinkbiblically@biola.edu. If"},{"speaker":"Scott Rae","startTime":2060.976,"endTime":2063.675,"body":"you enjoyed today's conversation with Dr. Malloy, give us a"},{"speaker":"Scott Rae","startTime":2063.675,"endTime":2066.235,"body":"rating on your podcast app and share it with a friend. Join us"},{"speaker":"Scott Rae","startTime":2066.235,"endTime":2069.076,"body":"on Friday for our weekly cultural update. Thanks for"},{"speaker":"Scott Rae","startTime":2069.076,"endTime":2072.916,"body":"listening, and remember, think biblically about everything."},{"speaker":"Scott Rae","startTime":2072.916,"endTime":2079.454,"body":"[upbeat music]"}]}