{"version":"1.0.0","segments":[{"speaker":"Scott Rae","startTime":0.3,"endTime":5.339,"body":"[upbeat music] How prevalent is cohabitation today,"},{"speaker":"Scott Rae","startTime":5.339,"endTime":8.3,"body":"particularly among Christian couples? What do you say to the"},{"speaker":"Scott Rae","startTime":8.3,"endTime":11.4,"body":"Christian couples who are living together, and how does living"},{"speaker":"Scott Rae","startTime":11.4,"endTime":15.06,"body":"together impact the chances for a successful marriage? We'll"},{"speaker":"Scott Rae","startTime":15.06,"endTime":17.379,"body":"look at these questions and a whole lot more as Sean and I"},{"speaker":"Scott Rae","startTime":17.379,"endTime":21.199,"body":"discuss a new sociological report on cohabitation from the"},{"speaker":"Scott Rae","startTime":21.199,"endTime":25.059,"body":"Institute for Family Studies. So, Sean, this is a, this is an"},{"speaker":"Scott Rae","startTime":25.059,"endTime":26.039,"body":"influential report,"},{"speaker":"Scott Rae","startTime":26.559,"endTime":28.559,"body":"and we just... We were talking before we started"},{"speaker":"Scott Rae","startTime":28.559,"endTime":31.359,"body":"recording. We just aren't talking about this that much. We"},{"speaker":"Scott Rae","startTime":31.359,"endTime":35.079,"body":"seem to be- ... Accepting this almost as a given, and, you"},{"speaker":"Scott Rae","startTime":35.079,"endTime":37.56,"body":"know, we sort of g- I think we've sort of given up trying to"},{"speaker":"Scott Rae","startTime":37.56,"endTime":42.159,"body":"combat the tide of cohabitation. So tell me about this, a little"},{"speaker":"Scott Rae","startTime":42.159,"endTime":43.219,"body":"bit about this report"},{"speaker":"Scott Rae","startTime":43.759,"endTime":47.859,"body":"and what went into it, and how prevalent is"},{"speaker":"Scott Rae","startTime":47.859,"endTime":49.929,"body":"cohabitation today?"},{"speaker":"Sean McDowell","startTime":49.929,"endTime":52.42,"body":"Well, we really saw the American family start to"},{"speaker":"Sean McDowell","startTime":52.42,"endTime":55.84,"body":"change in the '70s and into the '80s, whether that was with"},{"speaker":"Sean McDowell","startTime":55.84,"endTime":60.52,"body":"things like divorce and, in this case, cohabitation. Now, in many"},{"speaker":"Sean McDowell","startTime":60.52,"endTime":64.26,"body":"ways, it's become the norm. Now, just some of the stats, I wanna"},{"speaker":"Sean McDowell","startTime":64.26,"endTime":67.519,"body":"read this and slow down to make sure that people really grasp"},{"speaker":"Sean McDowell","startTime":67.519,"endTime":71.879,"body":"this. According to a recent Pulse Pew study, the number of"},{"speaker":"Sean McDowell","startTime":71.879,"endTime":77.28,"body":"adults 18 to 44 who have ever cohabited, cohabitated, has"},{"speaker":"Sean McDowell","startTime":77.28,"endTime":80.079,"body":"surpassed the share who has ever been married."},{"speaker":"Sean McDowell","startTime":81.5,"endTime":82.34,"body":"So if you isolate-"},{"speaker":"Scott Rae","startTime":82.34,"endTime":82.349,"body":"Yeah"},{"speaker":"Sean McDowell","startTime":82.349,"endTime":84.12,"body":"... Those two, more have cohabited than"},{"speaker":"Sean McDowell","startTime":84.12,"endTime":84.7,"body":"married."},{"speaker":"Scott Rae","startTime":84.7,"endTime":87.079,"body":"Yeah. Now, I think, now, to be, to be clear, too,"},{"speaker":"Scott Rae","startTime":87.079,"endTime":89.959,"body":"that includes people who may have cohabited just for a"},{"speaker":"Scott Rae","startTime":89.959,"endTime":91.099,"body":"short period of time-"},{"speaker":"Sean McDowell","startTime":91.099,"endTime":91.659,"body":"Sure"},{"speaker":"Scott Rae","startTime":91.659,"endTime":94.73,"body":"... Or, you know, maybe cohabited before marrying"},{"speaker":"Scott Rae","startTime":94.73,"endTime":98.48,"body":"the person. It includes everybody. That's a big tent."},{"speaker":"Sean McDowell","startTime":98.48,"endTime":99.18,"body":"Bottom line-"},{"speaker":"Scott Rae","startTime":99.18,"endTime":99.189,"body":"That's right"},{"speaker":"Sean McDowell","startTime":99.189,"endTime":101.819,"body":"... More have cohabited than individually been"},{"speaker":"Sean McDowell","startTime":101.819,"endTime":105.9,"body":"married, but fair enough. 65% of Americans believe living"},{"speaker":"Sean McDowell","startTime":105.9,"endTime":108.799,"body":"together before marriage will improve the odds of relationship"},{"speaker":"Sean McDowell","startTime":108.799,"endTime":112.299,"body":"success. Two out of three Americans believe"},{"speaker":"Sean McDowell","startTime":112.819,"endTime":113.48,"body":"living together"},{"speaker":"Sean McDowell","startTime":114.04,"endTime":115.48,"body":"sets you up for"},{"speaker":"Sean McDowell","startTime":116.12,"endTime":121.599,"body":"lasting relational marriage and success. What shocks me, and I"},{"speaker":"Sean McDowell","startTime":121.599,"endTime":127.319,"body":"use that word selectively, is 41% of at least self-identified"},{"speaker":"Sean McDowell","startTime":127.319,"endTime":129.919,"body":"Christians believe cohabitation is acceptable"},{"speaker":"Sean McDowell","startTime":130.58,"endTime":135.099,"body":"even without marriage plans. Four out of 10? I can't imagine"},{"speaker":"Sean McDowell","startTime":135.099,"endTime":136.719,"body":"those are Bible-believing,"},{"speaker":"Sean McDowell","startTime":137.439,"endTime":142.169,"body":"church-going evangelicals, but I don't know. 70% of identif- 40,"},{"speaker":"Sean McDowell","startTime":142.169,"endTime":145.06,"body":"41% of Christians believe it's acceptable."},{"speaker":"Scott Rae","startTime":145.06,"endTime":147.419,"body":"Well, let me ask you a question on that. Just when's"},{"speaker":"Scott Rae","startTime":147.419,"endTime":148.74,"body":"the last time you heard-"},{"speaker":"Sean McDowell","startTime":148.74,"endTime":148.969,"body":"I-"},{"speaker":"Scott Rae","startTime":148.969,"endTime":150.129,"body":"... Anything preached"},{"speaker":"Scott Rae","startTime":150.74,"endTime":152.0,"body":"where this is even-"},{"speaker":"Sean McDowell","startTime":152.0,"endTime":152.009,"body":"Yep"},{"speaker":"Scott Rae","startTime":152.009,"endTime":152.36,"body":"... Even"},{"speaker":"Scott Rae","startTime":152.9,"endTime":155.62,"body":"a, an incidental point of application?"},{"speaker":"Sean McDowell","startTime":155.62,"endTime":159.08,"body":"I don't think I've ever heard a sermon talk"},{"speaker":"Sean McDowell","startTime":159.08,"endTime":164.12,"body":"about cohabitation once anywhere that I can remember. Have you?"},{"speaker":"Scott Rae","startTime":164.12,"endTime":165.0,"body":"Never."},{"speaker":"Sean McDowell","startTime":165.0,"endTime":166.319,"body":"Not even once."},{"speaker":"Scott Rae","startTime":166.319,"endTime":166.56,"body":"Never."},{"speaker":"Sean McDowell","startTime":166.56,"endTime":168.12,"body":"So in some ways, your point is, [chuckles] why"},{"speaker":"Sean McDowell","startTime":168.12,"endTime":169.699,"body":"should we be surprised by this?"},{"speaker":"Scott Rae","startTime":169.699,"endTime":170.4,"body":"Precisely."},{"speaker":"Sean McDowell","startTime":170.4,"endTime":173.18,"body":"That's a great point. Now, in America, 70% of"},{"speaker":"Sean McDowell","startTime":173.18,"endTime":175.56,"body":"couples live together before marriage,"},{"speaker":"Sean McDowell","startTime":176.099,"endTime":180.719,"body":"so this is by far the norm for couples. And then here's an"},{"speaker":"Sean McDowell","startTime":180.719,"endTime":183.819,"body":"interesting wrinkle to this, is by 12 years of age, which is my"},{"speaker":"Sean McDowell","startTime":183.819,"endTime":184.939,"body":"youngest son's age,"},{"speaker":"Sean McDowell","startTime":185.879,"endTime":189.34,"body":"40% of American children will have spent part of their lives"},{"speaker":"Sean McDowell","startTime":189.34,"endTime":192.15,"body":"in a cohabiting relationship. Now, we'll come back to this."},{"speaker":"Scott Rae","startTime":192.15,"endTime":192.28,"body":"Interesting. Yeah."},{"speaker":"Sean McDowell","startTime":192.28,"endTime":194.699,"body":"But why does that matter? Because cohabiting"},{"speaker":"Sean McDowell","startTime":194.699,"endTime":198.719,"body":"relationships are far less stable than married"},{"speaker":"Sean McDowell","startTime":198.719,"endTime":200.03,"body":"relationships."},{"speaker":"Scott Rae","startTime":200.03,"endTime":200.099,"body":"Right."},{"speaker":"Sean McDowell","startTime":200.099,"endTime":201.8,"body":"This issue matters in the church and"},{"speaker":"Sean McDowell","startTime":201.8,"endTime":202.539,"body":"beyond."},{"speaker":"Scott Rae","startTime":202.539,"endTime":204.62,"body":"Yeah, much easier to get in and out of."},{"speaker":"Scott Rae","startTime":205.659,"endTime":208.0,"body":"And that, I think... We'll come back to that a little bit more"},{"speaker":"Scott Rae","startTime":208.0,"endTime":210.979,"body":"on the impact that has on kid- or can have on kids."},{"speaker":"Scott Rae","startTime":211.52,"endTime":213.84,"body":"Now, I think we need to be fair, too. I mean, some, you know,"},{"speaker":"Scott Rae","startTime":213.84,"endTime":217.78,"body":"some cohabitation arrangements are actually okay for kids,"},{"speaker":"Scott Rae","startTime":217.78,"endTime":218.879,"body":"but some are not."},{"speaker":"Sean McDowell","startTime":218.879,"endTime":219.78,"body":"Exactly."},{"speaker":"Scott Rae","startTime":219.78,"endTime":221.74,"body":"So we'll, we'll... That, that needs a little"},{"speaker":"Scott Rae","startTime":221.74,"endTime":224.96,"body":"nuancing, but we'll talk more about that. So let's be, let's"},{"speaker":"Scott Rae","startTime":224.96,"endTime":226.549,"body":"be really clear right from the start."},{"speaker":"Scott Rae","startTime":227.439,"endTime":231.699,"body":"What, what's a biblical view of cohabitation?"},{"speaker":"Sean McDowell","startTime":231.699,"endTime":233.8,"body":"Okay, so this study we're looking at is not"},{"speaker":"Sean McDowell","startTime":234.34,"endTime":236.049,"body":"studying the theology in the Bible."},{"speaker":"Scott Rae","startTime":236.049,"endTime":236.08,"body":"No."},{"speaker":"Sean McDowell","startTime":236.08,"endTime":239.24,"body":"It's looking sociologically, and there's"},{"speaker":"Sean McDowell","startTime":239.24,"endTime":243.08,"body":"important data there. How I speak to a Christian, of course,"},{"speaker":"Sean McDowell","startTime":243.08,"endTime":247.159,"body":"cohabiting goes back to God's design for what marriage is,"},{"speaker":"Sean McDowell","startTime":247.159,"endTime":251.259,"body":"laid out in the garden. God makes them male and female,"},{"speaker":"Sean McDowell","startTime":251.259,"endTime":254.419,"body":"says, \"Multiply, fill the earth.\" And in Genesis 2, it"},{"speaker":"Sean McDowell","startTime":254.419,"endTime":258.699,"body":"says what? \"A man leaves his father and his mother,"},{"speaker":"Sean McDowell","startTime":259.278,"endTime":265.199,"body":"clings to his wife, and the two shall become one.\" So there's a"},{"speaker":"Sean McDowell","startTime":265.199,"endTime":268.779,"body":"sense of separation from the household, and not even just"},{"speaker":"Sean McDowell","startTime":268.779,"endTime":271.439,"body":"physically. They might have shared a physical household, but"},{"speaker":"Sean McDowell","startTime":271.439,"endTime":276.74,"body":"your legal identity and ties, you leave one household, bond"},{"speaker":"Sean McDowell","startTime":276.74,"endTime":279.699,"body":"with the other in marriage, and then that becomes the"},{"speaker":"Sean McDowell","startTime":279.699,"endTime":283.879,"body":"appropriate avenue, so to speak, for sexual behavior. Now, I'm"},{"speaker":"Sean McDowell","startTime":283.879,"endTime":288.439,"body":"assuming in cohabitation there's sexual behavior. What I don't"},{"speaker":"Sean McDowell","startTime":288.439,"endTime":290.899,"body":"mean by cohabitation is if somebody owns a house, and"},{"speaker":"Sean McDowell","startTime":290.899,"endTime":293.0,"body":"they're renting out different rooms, and a boyfriend and a"},{"speaker":"Sean McDowell","startTime":293.0,"endTime":296.199,"body":"girlfriend are in completely separate rooms in the same"},{"speaker":"Sean McDowell","startTime":296.199,"endTime":301.199,"body":"house. That might be more of an issue of wisdom than it is an"},{"speaker":"Sean McDowell","startTime":301.199,"endTime":303.04,"body":"issue of cohabiting."},{"speaker":"Scott Rae","startTime":303.04,"endTime":306.06,"body":"I remember some really well-known apologist,"},{"speaker":"Scott Rae","startTime":306.98,"endTime":308.22,"body":"last name McDowell-"},{"speaker":"Sean McDowell","startTime":308.22,"endTime":309.269,"body":"[chuckles] Okay."},{"speaker":"Scott Rae","startTime":309.269,"endTime":311.42,"body":"... Your father, talking about that and"},{"speaker":"Scott Rae","startTime":311.42,"endTime":311.879,"body":"s- and-"},{"speaker":"Sean McDowell","startTime":311.879,"endTime":312.579,"body":"Really?"},{"speaker":"Scott Rae","startTime":312.579,"endTime":314.379,"body":"Yeah, yeah, talking about that exact scenario, and"},{"speaker":"Scott Rae","startTime":314.379,"endTime":317.62,"body":"he said, and he said, \"My friends, even Jesus would have"},{"speaker":"Scott Rae","startTime":317.62,"endTime":319.319,"body":"had trouble with that situation.\""},{"speaker":"Sean McDowell","startTime":319.319,"endTime":319.86,"body":"Really?"},{"speaker":"Scott Rae","startTime":319.86,"endTime":320.16,"body":"Yeah. [chuckles]"},{"speaker":"Sean McDowell","startTime":320.16,"endTime":321.54,"body":"That's super interesting. I haven't, I"},{"speaker":"Sean McDowell","startTime":321.54,"endTime":324.86,"body":"haven't heard that. So the... So it's a, it's a point of wisdom,"},{"speaker":"Sean McDowell","startTime":324.86,"endTime":325.079,"body":"right?"},{"speaker":"Scott Rae","startTime":325.079,"endTime":325.1,"body":"Yeah."},{"speaker":"Sean McDowell","startTime":325.1,"endTime":325.839,"body":"What we mean by"},{"speaker":"Sean McDowell","startTime":326.42,"endTime":329.699,"body":"cohabiting is you are living together, same place, in the"},{"speaker":"Sean McDowell","startTime":329.699,"endTime":331.329,"body":"vast majority of circumstances-"},{"speaker":"Scott Rae","startTime":331.329,"endTime":332.269,"body":"Same, same place, same bed"},{"speaker":"Sean McDowell","startTime":332.269,"endTime":335.3,"body":"... Sexually active. And the Bible is very"},{"speaker":"Sean McDowell","startTime":335.3,"endTime":335.699,"body":"clear"},{"speaker":"Sean McDowell","startTime":336.22,"endTime":340.399,"body":"that all sexual activity outside of a marriage, which is one man,"},{"speaker":"Sean McDowell","startTime":340.399,"endTime":345.18,"body":"one woman for life, is wrong. So data aside, biblically and"},{"speaker":"Sean McDowell","startTime":345.18,"endTime":346.8,"body":"theologically, faithfulness"},{"speaker":"Sean McDowell","startTime":347.42,"endTime":349.62,"body":"would be against cohabitation."},{"speaker":"Scott Rae","startTime":349.62,"endTime":351.839,"body":"All right, so what do you say to... Let's say you"},{"speaker":"Scott Rae","startTime":351.839,"endTime":353.812,"body":"have a Christian couple-... Who,"},{"speaker":"Scott Rae","startTime":355.012,"endTime":357.651,"body":"you know, maybe a, maybe a s- you know, a student here who, he"},{"speaker":"Scott Rae","startTime":357.651,"endTime":360.112,"body":"and his girlfriend are- ... After graduation are, you know,"},{"speaker":"Scott Rae","startTime":360.112,"endTime":362.572,"body":"they're thinking about moving in together because they can, you"},{"speaker":"Scott Rae","startTime":362.572,"endTime":366.591,"body":"know, two can live cheap as, you know, as cheaply as one."},{"speaker":"Scott Rae","startTime":367.572,"endTime":370.312,"body":"And if they're doing it to cut costs, it's, you know, they"},{"speaker":"Scott Rae","startTime":370.312,"endTime":373.442,"body":"think it's just a wise thing to do. They, they think, you know-"},{"speaker":"Scott Rae","startTime":373.442,"endTime":376.951,"body":"... \"Let's, let's see, let's see if we can get some sort of an"},{"speaker":"Scott Rae","startTime":376.951,"endTime":378.841,"body":"idea of what married life is gonna be like"},{"speaker":"Scott Rae","startTime":379.432,"endTime":382.232,"body":"by living together.\" What, what would you tell them?"},{"speaker":"Sean McDowell","startTime":382.232,"endTime":384.132,"body":"Well, one thing we'll come back to is the"},{"speaker":"Sean McDowell","startTime":384.132,"endTime":388.132,"body":"reasons people cohabit have a lot to do with whether it"},{"speaker":"Sean McDowell","startTime":388.132,"endTime":391.291,"body":"succeeds in the sense of becoming a lasting marriage."},{"speaker":"Scott Rae","startTime":391.291,"endTime":391.471,"body":"All right."},{"speaker":"Sean McDowell","startTime":391.471,"endTime":393.302,"body":"So that's one piece of this conversation."},{"speaker":"Scott Rae","startTime":393.302,"endTime":394.742,"body":"Okay. So let, so let's, let's go to that. Just-"},{"speaker":"Sean McDowell","startTime":394.742,"endTime":395.841,"body":"No. Okay, hold that, hold that for a second."},{"speaker":"Scott Rae","startTime":395.841,"endTime":395.851,"body":"All right."},{"speaker":"Sean McDowell","startTime":395.851,"endTime":397.031,"body":"Let me, let me come back to that, 'cause"},{"speaker":"Sean McDowell","startTime":397.031,"endTime":400.391,"body":"that's, that's, that's more a part of the report-"},{"speaker":"Scott Rae","startTime":400.391,"endTime":400.442,"body":"Okay"},{"speaker":"Sean McDowell","startTime":400.442,"endTime":401.262,"body":"... Than what I would say-"},{"speaker":"Scott Rae","startTime":401.262,"endTime":401.321,"body":"All right"},{"speaker":"Sean McDowell","startTime":401.321,"endTime":403.752,"body":"... Distinctly to the Christian couple. Here's"},{"speaker":"Sean McDowell","startTime":403.752,"endTime":408.132,"body":"what I would say. I would say, \"I remember being in your shoes,"},{"speaker":"Sean McDowell","startTime":408.132,"endTime":411.692,"body":"and got engaged with my wife, and thinking, 'Gosh, we're"},{"speaker":"Sean McDowell","startTime":411.692,"endTime":414.151,"body":"getting married in six months. We could save a lot of money by"},{"speaker":"Sean McDowell","startTime":414.151,"endTime":418.192,"body":"moving in together. We're gonna get married anyways. What's the"},{"speaker":"Sean McDowell","startTime":418.192,"endTime":421.752,"body":"big deal?'\" Like, I remember having those thoughts,"},{"speaker":"Sean McDowell","startTime":422.312,"endTime":427.872,"body":"and I saw some of my friends do that. What didn't occur to me is"},{"speaker":"Sean McDowell","startTime":427.872,"endTime":431.492,"body":"years later when I'm married, and now that I travel and I'm"},{"speaker":"Sean McDowell","startTime":431.492,"endTime":436.151,"body":"gone, what that would have done to my wife's trust and bringing"},{"speaker":"Sean McDowell","startTime":436.151,"endTime":440.372,"body":"that sin into our marriage, in her mind would have been, \"Oh,"},{"speaker":"Sean McDowell","startTime":440.372,"endTime":444.651,"body":"wait a minute. He was willing to compromise a little bit, do what"},{"speaker":"Sean McDowell","startTime":444.651,"endTime":449.192,"body":"was convenient, rather than the right thing. Now he's traveling"},{"speaker":"Sean McDowell","startTime":449.192,"endTime":450.221,"body":"10 years later-"},{"speaker":"Scott Rae","startTime":450.221,"endTime":450.221,"body":"Yeah"},{"speaker":"Sean McDowell","startTime":450.221,"endTime":452.672,"body":"... I wonder if he's doing what's convenient. I"},{"speaker":"Sean McDowell","startTime":452.672,"endTime":456.072,"body":"wonder if he's really doing the right thing.\" That didn't cross"},{"speaker":"Sean McDowell","startTime":456.072,"endTime":459.612,"body":"my mind when I was 22 years old and engaged with my wife."},{"speaker":"Scott Rae","startTime":459.612,"endTime":459.951,"body":"Right."},{"speaker":"Sean McDowell","startTime":459.951,"endTime":461.711,"body":"Now, years later, I'm looking back going,"},{"speaker":"Sean McDowell","startTime":461.711,"endTime":465.552,"body":"\"Oh, my goodness.\" The kind of choices you make"},{"speaker":"Sean McDowell","startTime":466.151,"endTime":470.072,"body":"while you're dating, you bring into your marriage. So I"},{"speaker":"Sean McDowell","startTime":470.072,"endTime":471.951,"body":"remember I got an apartment, and at this time [chuckles] in"},{"speaker":"Sean McDowell","startTime":471.951,"endTime":475.891,"body":"Southern California, I think it was $600 or $800 a month, and"},{"speaker":"Sean McDowell","startTime":475.891,"endTime":479.331,"body":"it'd probably be four times that right now. At that time, I'm"},{"speaker":"Sean McDowell","startTime":479.331,"endTime":483.86,"body":"like, \"This is a big sacrifice.\" I didn't realize how significant"},{"speaker":"Sean McDowell","startTime":483.86,"endTime":487.831,"body":"that sacrifice was to my wife to say, \"You know what? We're gonna"},{"speaker":"Sean McDowell","startTime":487.831,"endTime":491.492,"body":"do this right. I'm gonna treat you right. We're gonna be"},{"speaker":"Sean McDowell","startTime":491.492,"endTime":493.992,"body":"patient,\" and we built our marriage on that."},{"speaker":"Scott Rae","startTime":493.992,"endTime":494.411,"body":"Mm-hmm."},{"speaker":"Sean McDowell","startTime":494.411,"endTime":496.771,"body":"We are celebrating 25 years right now,"},{"speaker":"Sean McDowell","startTime":496.771,"endTime":500.711,"body":"and I never dreamed that those choices would influence us so"},{"speaker":"Sean McDowell","startTime":500.711,"endTime":501.552,"body":"deeply."},{"speaker":"Scott Rae","startTime":501.552,"endTime":504.432,"body":"So, so let's, let's go a little further here. What,"},{"speaker":"Scott Rae","startTime":504.432,"endTime":508.172,"body":"what are some of the reasons the report gives for why people"},{"speaker":"Scott Rae","startTime":508.172,"endTime":510.312,"body":"choose to cohabit?"},{"speaker":"Sean McDowell","startTime":511.851,"endTime":514.111,"body":"Well, there's a lot of different reasons, and"},{"speaker":"Sean McDowell","startTime":514.111,"endTime":517.611,"body":"can I come back to that one? Because I think it's important"},{"speaker":"Sean McDowell","startTime":517.611,"endTime":521.951,"body":"to come to that after we talk about how s- w- how I talk to"},{"speaker":"Sean McDowell","startTime":521.951,"endTime":523.052,"body":"students first-"},{"speaker":"Scott Rae","startTime":523.052,"endTime":523.211,"body":"Okay"},{"speaker":"Sean McDowell","startTime":523.211,"endTime":523.99,"body":"... Thinking critically-"},{"speaker":"Scott Rae","startTime":523.99,"endTime":524.022,"body":"All right"},{"speaker":"Sean McDowell","startTime":524.022,"endTime":525.072,"body":"... About cohabitation."},{"speaker":"Scott Rae","startTime":525.072,"endTime":525.562,"body":"Go for it."},{"speaker":"Sean McDowell","startTime":525.562,"endTime":527.792,"body":"'Cause I think it'll make more sense"},{"speaker":"Sean McDowell","startTime":528.312,"endTime":533.412,"body":"once I've laid this out. So I taught high school for 21 years,"},{"speaker":"Sean McDowell","startTime":533.412,"endTime":537.371,"body":"full-time, and this is the first year that I'm not teaching it."},{"speaker":"Sean McDowell","startTime":537.371,"endTime":539.951,"body":"And what I would do with my students, and these are... It's"},{"speaker":"Sean McDowell","startTime":539.951,"endTime":542.672,"body":"a Christian school, but not all were Christian. Most were."},{"speaker":"Sean McDowell","startTime":543.331,"endTime":545.772,"body":"And I would just say, \"All right, let's"},{"speaker":"Sean McDowell","startTime":546.412,"endTime":550.312,"body":"think of all the reasons why cohabiting with somebody would"},{"speaker":"Sean McDowell","startTime":550.312,"endTime":553.731,"body":"benefit them, and let's think of all the reasons why it"},{"speaker":"Sean McDowell","startTime":553.731,"endTime":557.751,"body":"wouldn't,\" and we would make a chart, and I would make a list"},{"speaker":"Sean McDowell","startTime":557.751,"endTime":560.672,"body":"with these students. You know, these are seniors, 17, 18 years"},{"speaker":"Sean McDowell","startTime":560.672,"endTime":563.572,"body":"old, and I would just wait until they thought of every"},{"speaker":"Sean McDowell","startTime":563.572,"endTime":566.711,"body":"conceivable reason. So some might be convenience, like you"},{"speaker":"Sean McDowell","startTime":566.711,"endTime":569.631,"body":"said. Some might be finances. Some might be, \"I wanna spend"},{"speaker":"Sean McDowell","startTime":569.631,"endTime":572.751,"body":"more time with this person.\" Some might be, \"Whatever, it's"},{"speaker":"Sean McDowell","startTime":572.751,"endTime":576.011,"body":"just easier.\" So we would walk through all of them, and a"},{"speaker":"Sean McDowell","startTime":576.011,"endTime":579.412,"body":"common one was, \"I can learn things that I couldn't learn"},{"speaker":"Sean McDowell","startTime":579.412,"endTime":582.652,"body":"otherwise.\" That was kind of a big one. And the worst metaphor"},{"speaker":"Sean McDowell","startTime":582.652,"endTime":585.511,"body":"ever was, \"You wouldn't drive- buy a car if you didn't test"},{"speaker":"Sean McDowell","startTime":585.511,"endTime":588.131,"body":"drive it, so why don't we test drive this?\" [chuckles] Students"},{"speaker":"Sean McDowell","startTime":588.131,"endTime":592.032,"body":"would say that, \"Test drive the relationship.\" And so, and then"},{"speaker":"Sean McDowell","startTime":592.032,"endTime":595.532,"body":"I'd take them one by one. I'd say, \"Okay, is this a good"},{"speaker":"Sean McDowell","startTime":595.532,"endTime":599.672,"body":"reason? Let's talk about it. Is this a good reason? Let's talk"},{"speaker":"Sean McDowell","startTime":599.672,"endTime":601.991,"body":"about it.\" And we would dissect them-"},{"speaker":"Scott Rae","startTime":601.991,"endTime":602.511,"body":"Mm-hmm"},{"speaker":"Sean McDowell","startTime":602.511,"endTime":605.552,"body":"... One by one, and at the end, I would make the"},{"speaker":"Sean McDowell","startTime":605.552,"endTime":609.152,"body":"point to them, I would say, \"Look, there is nothing that you"},{"speaker":"Sean McDowell","startTime":609.152,"endTime":611.251,"body":"can learn from living with somebody"},{"speaker":"Sean McDowell","startTime":611.851,"endTime":614.77,"body":"that you can't learn otherwise,"},{"speaker":"Sean McDowell","startTime":615.552,"endTime":621.532,"body":"that has any relevance to a lasting marriage.\" I say that"},{"speaker":"Sean McDowell","startTime":621.532,"endTime":624.211,"body":"very carefully. There is nothing you can learn from living with"},{"speaker":"Sean McDowell","startTime":624.211,"endTime":629.331,"body":"somebody that you can't learn otherwise, that has any"},{"speaker":"Sean McDowell","startTime":629.331,"endTime":631.27,"body":"significance for a lasting"},{"speaker":"Sean McDowell","startTime":631.831,"endTime":635.851,"body":"marriage. So why do it? Now, with that said, here's what the"},{"speaker":"Sean McDowell","startTime":635.851,"endTime":637.572,"body":"Institute for Family Studies shows,"},{"speaker":"Sean McDowell","startTime":638.451,"endTime":640.27,"body":"and this is what's really significant-"},{"speaker":"Sean McDowell","startTime":640.792,"endTime":644.412,"body":"Although many believe that living together before marriage"},{"speaker":"Sean McDowell","startTime":644.412,"endTime":646.552,"body":"will lower their odds of divorce,"},{"speaker":"Sean McDowell","startTime":647.231,"endTime":651.672,"body":"there's no evidence that this is generally true and a lot of"},{"speaker":"Sean McDowell","startTime":651.672,"endTime":657.231,"body":"evidence that it is not true. Sociological data. That is, for"},{"speaker":"Sean McDowell","startTime":657.231,"endTime":661.172,"body":"decades in the US, living together before marriage has"},{"speaker":"Sean McDowell","startTime":661.172,"endTime":664.371,"body":"been associated with greater odds of divorce"},{"speaker":"Sean McDowell","startTime":664.892,"endTime":669.072,"body":"and/or lower relationship quality in marriage, and not"},{"speaker":"Sean McDowell","startTime":669.072,"endTime":672.412,"body":"just in a few isolated circumstances. And they give"},{"speaker":"Sean McDowell","startTime":672.412,"endTime":676.211,"body":"some specifics. The study says, \"In relative terms, the"},{"speaker":"Sean McDowell","startTime":676.211,"endTime":680.672,"body":"marriages of those who moved in together before being engaged"},{"speaker":"Sean McDowell","startTime":680.672,"endTime":684.951,"body":"were 48% more likely to end the marriage of those who cohabited"},{"speaker":"Sean McDowell","startTime":684.951,"endTime":689.432,"body":"after being engaged or already married.\" And then they walk"},{"speaker":"Sean McDowell","startTime":689.432,"endTime":691.652,"body":"through, the... One of the things, they said, \"The group"},{"speaker":"Sean McDowell","startTime":691.652,"endTime":693.692,"body":"who cohabited after engagement"},{"speaker":"Sean McDowell","startTime":694.27,"endTime":698.871,"body":"appears similar, if not greater, risk than those who cohabit"},{"speaker":"Sean McDowell","startTime":698.871,"endTime":703.542,"body":"before engagement on some important variables.\" It said,"},{"speaker":"Sean McDowell","startTime":703.542,"endTime":705.981,"body":"\"For example, those who reported being engaged prior to moving in"},{"speaker":"Sean McDowell","startTime":706.611,"endTime":710.072,"body":"were as likely, if not more, to report having a child with their"},{"speaker":"Sean McDowell","startTime":710.072,"endTime":713.331,"body":"spouse before marriage,\" and that raises other issues,"},{"speaker":"Sean McDowell","startTime":713.331,"endTime":718.788,"body":"including increased divorce. So-... Bottom line, people get,"},{"speaker":"Sean McDowell","startTime":718.788,"endTime":721.927,"body":"get w- move in together for a lot of reasons, and we'll come"},{"speaker":"Sean McDowell","startTime":721.927,"endTime":725.488,"body":"back to some of those specific ones, but there's nothing you"},{"speaker":"Sean McDowell","startTime":725.488,"endTime":729.908,"body":"can learn, it doesn't benefit you in the long run. So I would"},{"speaker":"Sean McDowell","startTime":729.908,"endTime":732.268,"body":"say to these students, I'd say, \"Look, I've been married for a"},{"speaker":"Sean McDowell","startTime":732.268,"endTime":736.967,"body":"long time. If you want a lasting, significant marriage"},{"speaker":"Sean McDowell","startTime":736.967,"endTime":740.067,"body":"built on trust, that might involve a little more sacrifice"},{"speaker":"Sean McDowell","startTime":740.067,"endTime":744.988,"body":"now than you like, don't move in with this person. Don't do it."},{"speaker":"Sean McDowell","startTime":744.988,"endTime":749.227,"body":"It's not for your objective good or for theirs.\""},{"speaker":"Scott Rae","startTime":749.227,"endTime":750.638,"body":"All right, so let's, let's"},{"speaker":"Scott Rae","startTime":751.427,"endTime":752.616,"body":"explore a little bit"},{"speaker":"Scott Rae","startTime":753.347,"endTime":754.788,"body":"why that is."},{"speaker":"Scott Rae","startTime":755.687,"endTime":758.366,"body":"What, what are some of the negative effects"},{"speaker":"Scott Rae","startTime":759.648,"endTime":763.707,"body":"that come out of cohabitation that the study showed? I mean, I"},{"speaker":"Scott Rae","startTime":763.707,"endTime":765.107,"body":"have, I have a theory myself"},{"speaker":"Scott Rae","startTime":765.888,"endTime":766.467,"body":"for why"},{"speaker":"Scott Rae","startTime":767.477,"endTime":770.168,"body":"some of these, some of the percentage of unsuccessful"},{"speaker":"Scott Rae","startTime":770.168,"endTime":773.567,"body":"marriages that come out of that is as high as it is. But what"},{"speaker":"Scott Rae","startTime":773.567,"endTime":776.067,"body":"does the report- ... What does the report suggest"},{"speaker":"Scott Rae","startTime":776.687,"endTime":776.866,"body":"about that?"},{"speaker":"Sean McDowell","startTime":776.866,"endTime":780.548,"body":"Okay, so here's some of the negative effects of"},{"speaker":"Sean McDowell","startTime":780.548,"endTime":783.508,"body":"cohabitation. Now, again, we're gonna come back to this because"},{"speaker":"Sean McDowell","startTime":783.508,"endTime":787.687,"body":"the data is somewhat clear. The reasons why somebody cohabits,"},{"speaker":"Sean McDowell","startTime":787.687,"endTime":791.227,"body":"whether they're engaged or not, will affect some of this data."},{"speaker":"Sean McDowell","startTime":791.227,"endTime":793.908,"body":"So this is just including all people-"},{"speaker":"Scott Rae","startTime":793.908,"endTime":793.988,"body":"Right"},{"speaker":"Sean McDowell","startTime":793.988,"endTime":795.126,"body":"... That cohabit, even though it could be"},{"speaker":"Sean McDowell","startTime":795.126,"endTime":800.888,"body":"nuanced. Some of this is, I think, really clear. Much higher"},{"speaker":"Sean McDowell","startTime":800.888,"endTime":806.107,"body":"levels of sexual infidelity. So 2019, Texas Tech study found"},{"speaker":"Sean McDowell","startTime":806.107,"endTime":810.888,"body":"that cohabitors, 57% greater likelihood of sexual infidelity"},{"speaker":"Sean McDowell","startTime":810.888,"endTime":813.187,"body":"compared to married couples. Now-"},{"speaker":"Scott Rae","startTime":813.187,"endTime":814.388,"body":"While, while they were cohabiting?"},{"speaker":"Sean McDowell","startTime":814.388,"endTime":817.048,"body":"Yes, ex- what- those who are cohabiting have"},{"speaker":"Sean McDowell","startTime":817.048,"endTime":820.788,"body":"that, exactly. The National Sex Survey showed cohabiting women"},{"speaker":"Sean McDowell","startTime":820.788,"endTime":824.668,"body":"eight more time, times more likely than wives to cheat on"},{"speaker":"Sean McDowell","startTime":824.668,"endTime":827.067,"body":"their mates. So if you take those who are married women,"},{"speaker":"Sean McDowell","startTime":827.067,"endTime":829.847,"body":"those who are cohabiting women, those who are cohabiting, eight"},{"speaker":"Sean McDowell","startTime":829.847,"endTime":833.087,"body":"times more likely to cheat than women in a married relationship."},{"speaker":"Sean McDowell","startTime":833.087,"endTime":837.548,"body":"That's one example. Another one is domestic violence. The Family"},{"speaker":"Sean McDowell","startTime":837.548,"endTime":841.067,"body":"Violence Research Laboratory at the University of New Hampshire"},{"speaker":"Sean McDowell","startTime":841.768,"endTime":844.648,"body":"says that the overall rate of violence among cohabiting"},{"speaker":"Sean McDowell","startTime":844.648,"endTime":848.908,"body":"couples is double the rate compared to married couples, and"},{"speaker":"Sean McDowell","startTime":848.908,"endTime":853.626,"body":"the rate for severe violence is nearly five times greater."},{"speaker":"Sean McDowell","startTime":854.567,"endTime":858.768,"body":"Third example, financial resources. Cohabiters are less"},{"speaker":"Sean McDowell","startTime":858.768,"endTime":861.528,"body":"likely to share financial resources. It's more like"},{"speaker":"Sean McDowell","startTime":861.528,"endTime":865.087,"body":"roommates than it is [chuckles] in a married, is the example."},{"speaker":"Sean McDowell","startTime":865.087,"endTime":867.607,"body":"They're less likely to save and accumulate wealth, not"},{"speaker":"Sean McDowell","startTime":867.607,"endTime":870.087,"body":"selfishly, but just for their kids, for their future, for"},{"speaker":"Sean McDowell","startTime":870.087,"endTime":873.207,"body":"retirement. The National Marriage Project reports that"},{"speaker":"Sean McDowell","startTime":873.207,"endTime":875.888,"body":"while the poverty rate for children living in a married"},{"speaker":"Sean McDowell","startTime":875.888,"endTime":876.327,"body":"household"},{"speaker":"Sean McDowell","startTime":876.947,"endTime":882.927,"body":"is about 6%, it's 31% for children with a cohabiting"},{"speaker":"Sean McDowell","startTime":882.927,"endTime":886.687,"body":"mother and father. Again, we see the negative effects on"},{"speaker":"Sean McDowell","startTime":886.687,"endTime":890.988,"body":"children. Household chores. Men who plan to marry the women he"},{"speaker":"Sean McDowell","startTime":890.988,"endTime":894.607,"body":"is living with does up to eight hours more of chores. Now, in"},{"speaker":"Sean McDowell","startTime":894.607,"endTime":898.748,"body":"fairness on this one, if you're cohabiting and you plan to marry"},{"speaker":"Sean McDowell","startTime":898.748,"endTime":902.307,"body":"that person, you're going to do more chores as somebody who's"},{"speaker":"Sean McDowell","startTime":902.307,"endTime":904.807,"body":"cohabiting and just testing things out."},{"speaker":"Scott Rae","startTime":904.807,"endTime":905.028,"body":"Right."},{"speaker":"Sean McDowell","startTime":905.028,"endTime":907.288,"body":"So that's an important distinction. But they"},{"speaker":"Sean McDowell","startTime":907.288,"endTime":910.648,"body":"did point out, they said 54% of cohabiting relationships have"},{"speaker":"Sean McDowell","startTime":910.648,"endTime":918.447,"body":"children present, 54%, one-third from that relationship. So as a"},{"speaker":"Sean McDowell","startTime":918.447,"endTime":922.048,"body":"whole, if these relationships are less stable, less"},{"speaker":"Sean McDowell","startTime":922.048,"endTime":925.847,"body":"financially secure, there's a higher likelihood of sexual"},{"speaker":"Sean McDowell","startTime":925.847,"endTime":930.528,"body":"infidelity, there's a higher likelihood of domestic violence,"},{"speaker":"Sean McDowell","startTime":930.528,"endTime":934.528,"body":"why would we encourage people to cohabit? And again, I'm not"},{"speaker":"Sean McDowell","startTime":934.528,"endTime":937.366,"body":"saying this is true for all cohabiting relationships, and"},{"speaker":"Sean McDowell","startTime":937.366,"endTime":940.057,"body":"that it's not true for any married relationships. We're"},{"speaker":"Sean McDowell","startTime":940.057,"endTime":943.827,"body":"talking about where the numbers point, and there's a significant"},{"speaker":"Sean McDowell","startTime":943.827,"endTime":947.467,"body":"difference, all things considered, between cohabiting"},{"speaker":"Sean McDowell","startTime":947.467,"endTime":950.508,"body":"relationships and between married relationships. Those are"},{"speaker":"Sean McDowell","startTime":950.508,"endTime":951.268,"body":"just some-"},{"speaker":"Scott Rae","startTime":951.268,"endTime":951.278,"body":"Yeah"},{"speaker":"Sean McDowell","startTime":951.278,"endTime":952.227,"body":"... Of the negative outcomes."},{"speaker":"Scott Rae","startTime":952.227,"endTime":954.248,"body":"And I think, too, I, we need to be fair, too, that"},{"speaker":"Scott Rae","startTime":954.248,"endTime":956.567,"body":"there is a difference in the statistics from those who are"},{"speaker":"Scott Rae","startTime":956.567,"endTime":957.268,"body":"engaged-"},{"speaker":"Sean McDowell","startTime":957.268,"endTime":958.008,"body":"Exactly"},{"speaker":"Scott Rae","startTime":958.008,"endTime":960.337,"body":"... And tho- and those who are, who are sort of,"},{"speaker":"Scott Rae","startTime":960.337,"endTime":961.227,"body":"you know, you,"},{"speaker":"Scott Rae","startTime":961.748,"endTime":962.908,"body":"not irrevocably, but"},{"speaker":"Scott Rae","startTime":963.467,"endTime":967.048,"body":"as best you can do being engaged, you're committed to the"},{"speaker":"Scott Rae","startTime":967.048,"endTime":970.427,"body":"person, and there's a level of, there's a level of commitment"},{"speaker":"Scott Rae","startTime":970.427,"endTime":973.326,"body":"going forward that I'm, you know, I'm not planning on"},{"speaker":"Scott Rae","startTime":973.326,"endTime":974.908,"body":"spending my life with anybody else."},{"speaker":"Scott Rae","startTime":976.347,"endTime":978.576,"body":"Now, my theory on this is that-"},{"speaker":"Sean McDowell","startTime":978.576,"endTime":979.567,"body":"Yeah, I've been eager to know"},{"speaker":"Scott Rae","startTime":979.567,"endTime":979.817,"body":"..."},{"speaker":"Scott Rae","startTime":980.947,"endTime":984.087,"body":"Is that when you, when you cohabit with someone, you get"},{"speaker":"Scott Rae","startTime":984.087,"endTime":989.567,"body":"all the, all the dailiness of life- ... Together. You get the"},{"speaker":"Scott Rae","startTime":989.567,"endTime":993.488,"body":"chores. You get making the bed. You get doing the laundry. You"},{"speaker":"Scott Rae","startTime":993.488,"endTime":996.386,"body":"get caring for the dogs, if you have them."},{"speaker":"Scott Rae","startTime":997.467,"endTime":1002.107,"body":"You get, you get just the sort of the daily stuff of life."},{"speaker":"Scott Rae","startTime":1002.107,"endTime":1004.467,"body":"There are a lot of couples, they just sort of slog through it,"},{"speaker":"Scott Rae","startTime":1005.087,"endTime":1008.408,"body":"and, you know, it's n- it's not, it's not the best part of"},{"speaker":"Scott Rae","startTime":1008.408,"endTime":1009.307,"body":"marriage-"},{"speaker":"Sean McDowell","startTime":1009.307,"endTime":1009.528,"body":"Sure"},{"speaker":"Scott Rae","startTime":1009.528,"endTime":1010.467,"body":"... To say the least."},{"speaker":"Sean McDowell","startTime":1010.467,"endTime":1011.227,"body":"Okay."},{"speaker":"Scott Rae","startTime":1011.227,"endTime":1012.107,"body":"But what you don't get"},{"speaker":"Scott Rae","startTime":1013.048,"endTime":1014.967,"body":"is the trust that comes with"},{"speaker":"Scott Rae","startTime":1016.048,"endTime":1020.067,"body":"a c- a formal- ... Public commitment that you've- ... Made"},{"speaker":"Scott Rae","startTime":1020.067,"endTime":1021.008,"body":"to this person."},{"speaker":"Scott Rae","startTime":1021.788,"endTime":1024.607,"body":"And it d- it has a per- it... The, the statistics are"},{"speaker":"Scott Rae","startTime":1024.607,"endTime":1028.646,"body":"clear, it has a permanency to it- ... That cohabiting does"},{"speaker":"Scott Rae","startTime":1028.646,"endTime":1029.248,"body":"not."},{"speaker":"Scott Rae","startTime":1030.146,"endTime":1033.307,"body":"And so I, it seems to me, I think you get... It, it gives"},{"speaker":"Scott Rae","startTime":1033.307,"endTime":1036.067,"body":"you know, all the, all the stuff that you're, you know,"},{"speaker":"Scott Rae","startTime":1036.067,"endTime":1037.167,"body":"that you're gonna get anyway"},{"speaker":"Scott Rae","startTime":1037.688,"endTime":1040.926,"body":"when you're married, but, you know, but those are things"},{"speaker":"Scott Rae","startTime":1040.926,"endTime":1042.896,"body":"that, [chuckles] you know, honestly, I can wait-"},{"speaker":"Sean McDowell","startTime":1042.896,"endTime":1042.946,"body":"[laughs]"},{"speaker":"Scott Rae","startTime":1042.946,"endTime":1045.208,"body":"I could, I could have waited for those things."},{"speaker":"Sean McDowell","startTime":1045.208,"endTime":1045.788,"body":"Sure, sure."},{"speaker":"Scott Rae","startTime":1046.708,"endTime":1049.768,"body":"But it doesn't give me the w- I th- I think the one"},{"speaker":"Scott Rae","startTime":1049.768,"endTime":1051.468,"body":"thing that is the glue"},{"speaker":"Scott Rae","startTime":1051.988,"endTime":1055.127,"body":"that's gonna hold a long-term commitment together."},{"speaker":"Scott Rae","startTime":1056.867,"endTime":1056.988,"body":"So"},{"speaker":"Scott Rae","startTime":1057.567,"endTime":1059.147,"body":"anyway, that's, that's my theory."},{"speaker":"Sean McDowell","startTime":1059.147,"endTime":1059.587,"body":"Interesting."},{"speaker":"Scott Rae","startTime":1059.587,"endTime":1060.228,"body":"Um-"},{"speaker":"Sean McDowell","startTime":1060.228,"endTime":1061.827,"body":"I've, I've got a couple thoughts, and then tell"},{"speaker":"Sean McDowell","startTime":1061.827,"endTime":1065.708,"body":"me what you think about this. So to take that, I would... The"},{"speaker":"Sean McDowell","startTime":1065.708,"endTime":1069.758,"body":"angle I would say is when people are living together, they think"},{"speaker":"Sean McDowell","startTime":1069.758,"endTime":1074.688,"body":"they're getting a sense of what marriage is actually like. They"},{"speaker":"Sean McDowell","startTime":1074.688,"endTime":1078.067,"body":"think, \"Oh, this is a simulation that helps me know what the real"},{"speaker":"Sean McDowell","startTime":1078.067,"endTime":1081.367,"body":"thing will be like.\"... But it's lacking in the element that"},{"speaker":"Sean McDowell","startTime":1081.367,"endTime":1085.907,"body":"you're talking about, which is permanence, which actually"},{"speaker":"Sean McDowell","startTime":1085.907,"endTime":1088.637,"body":"changes everything. So if you're in a,"},{"speaker":"Sean McDowell","startTime":1089.307,"endTime":1092.087,"body":"a cohabiting relationship, and you're disagreeing or you're"},{"speaker":"Sean McDowell","startTime":1092.087,"endTime":1095.086,"body":"arguing about something, there's a sense of like, \"I could be out"},{"speaker":"Sean McDowell","startTime":1095.086,"endTime":1098.327,"body":"the door. I'm gone.\" When you're married, there's a sense of"},{"speaker":"Sean McDowell","startTime":1098.327,"endTime":1104.067,"body":"like, \"I have committed to you, and I need to find a way to make"},{"speaker":"Sean McDowell","startTime":1104.067,"endTime":1108.748,"body":"this work amidst our disagreement.\" That changes"},{"speaker":"Sean McDowell","startTime":1108.748,"endTime":1111.167,"body":"everything about the conflict."},{"speaker":"Scott Rae","startTime":1111.167,"endTime":1111.508,"body":"Yeah."},{"speaker":"Sean McDowell","startTime":1111.508,"endTime":1114.228,"body":"That's why people living together think"},{"speaker":"Sean McDowell","startTime":1114.228,"endTime":1117.127,"body":"they're getting a simulation, but they're not getting a"},{"speaker":"Sean McDowell","startTime":1117.127,"endTime":1119.867,"body":"simulation, so they get into the real thing, and they feel like"},{"speaker":"Sean McDowell","startTime":1119.867,"endTime":1122.847,"body":"it's a setup. That's one piece. I think-"},{"speaker":"Scott Rae","startTime":1122.847,"endTime":1124.907,"body":"Maybe they're getting the AI version of it."},{"speaker":"Scott Rae","startTime":1124.907,"endTime":1125.928,"body":"[laughing]"},{"speaker":"Sean McDowell","startTime":1125.928,"endTime":1127.448,"body":"[laughing] They, they could be."},{"speaker":"Scott Rae","startTime":1127.448,"endTime":1128.087,"body":"But c-"},{"speaker":"Sean McDowell","startTime":1128.087,"endTime":1129.288,"body":"I don't know exactly what that means-"},{"speaker":"Scott Rae","startTime":1129.288,"endTime":1130.127,"body":"Could, could have-"},{"speaker":"Sean McDowell","startTime":1130.127,"endTime":1130.157,"body":"But they could be"},{"speaker":"Scott Rae","startTime":1130.157,"endTime":1131.748,"body":"... Could have errors included."},{"speaker":"Sean McDowell","startTime":1132.268,"endTime":1134.048,"body":"Oh, fair enough. Now, I think there's a couple"},{"speaker":"Sean McDowell","startTime":1134.048,"endTime":1136.508,"body":"other things. One other one is oftentimes when people are"},{"speaker":"Sean McDowell","startTime":1136.508,"endTime":1140.887,"body":"living together, there's a difference in expectation that's"},{"speaker":"Sean McDowell","startTime":1140.887,"endTime":1144.327,"body":"not true when couples are married. Now-"},{"speaker":"Scott Rae","startTime":1144.327,"endTime":1145.107,"body":"For example?"},{"speaker":"Sean McDowell","startTime":1145.107,"endTime":1148.268,"body":"Well, if you're living together, oftentimes"},{"speaker":"Sean McDowell","startTime":1148.268,"endTime":1151.327,"body":"girls, women will view living together as a step towards"},{"speaker":"Sean McDowell","startTime":1151.327,"endTime":1157.327,"body":"commitment. Men tend to view it to see if they want to commit."},{"speaker":"Sean McDowell","startTime":1157.327,"endTime":1160.367,"body":"And so if you have different expectations, you're gonna shape"},{"speaker":"Sean McDowell","startTime":1160.367,"endTime":1162.528,"body":"conflict differently, you're gonna treat each other"},{"speaker":"Sean McDowell","startTime":1162.528,"endTime":1164.468,"body":"differently. You're just gonna run up against, \"I thought you"},{"speaker":"Sean McDowell","startTime":1164.468,"endTime":1166.567,"body":"would do this, and I thought you'd do that,\" based on"},{"speaker":"Sean McDowell","startTime":1166.567,"endTime":1170.048,"body":"unstated expectations. Now, of course, one way around that, and"},{"speaker":"Sean McDowell","startTime":1170.048,"endTime":1174.488,"body":"the data does go up towards increasing, is if somebody is"},{"speaker":"Sean McDowell","startTime":1174.488,"endTime":1178.827,"body":"engaged first, then there's at least a common level of"},{"speaker":"Sean McDowell","startTime":1178.827,"endTime":1179.298,"body":"commitment-"},{"speaker":"Scott Rae","startTime":1179.298,"endTime":1179.728,"body":"Mm-hmm"},{"speaker":"Sean McDowell","startTime":1179.728,"endTime":1182.167,"body":"... When they move in together, and decreases"},{"speaker":"Sean McDowell","startTime":1182.167,"endTime":1185.248,"body":"the chance significantly that that re- that relationship will"},{"speaker":"Sean McDowell","startTime":1185.248,"endTime":1189.417,"body":"not last when they get married. But that's one reason that's"},{"speaker":"Sean McDowell","startTime":1189.417,"endTime":1192.528,"body":"there, and I'd still say, if you're engaged, you're not"},{"speaker":"Sean McDowell","startTime":1192.528,"endTime":1195.788,"body":"married yet. You haven't given the ring. You haven't legally"},{"speaker":"Sean McDowell","startTime":1195.788,"endTime":1198.708,"body":"tied your names, done the public ceremony, so there's still a"},{"speaker":"Sean McDowell","startTime":1198.708,"endTime":1199.188,"body":"difference-"},{"speaker":"Scott Rae","startTime":1199.188,"endTime":1199.278,"body":"Yeah"},{"speaker":"Sean McDowell","startTime":1199.278,"endTime":1199.627,"body":"... That's there."},{"speaker":"Scott Rae","startTime":1199.627,"endTime":1201.107,"body":"The license has not been registered."},{"speaker":"Sean McDowell","startTime":1201.107,"endTime":1204.488,"body":"It has not been registered legally. The other"},{"speaker":"Sean McDowell","startTime":1204.488,"endTime":1207.587,"body":"piece that I would add to this, that I think adds to it, is"},{"speaker":"Sean McDowell","startTime":1207.587,"endTime":1208.367,"body":"people think"},{"speaker":"Sean McDowell","startTime":1208.877,"endTime":1211.988,"body":"when you move in together, you're getting a better sense of"},{"speaker":"Sean McDowell","startTime":1211.988,"endTime":1214.907,"body":"what this person is like. I mean, when I ask students all"},{"speaker":"Sean McDowell","startTime":1214.907,"endTime":1217.428,"body":"the time, they're like, \"Well, I can just see if they put the"},{"speaker":"Sean McDowell","startTime":1217.428,"endTime":1219.748,"body":"toothpaste on or not. I can see what they're like at 2-00 in the"},{"speaker":"Sean McDowell","startTime":1219.748,"endTime":1223.048,"body":"morning when they're tired. I can just see these kinds of"},{"speaker":"Sean McDowell","startTime":1223.048,"endTime":1225.067,"body":"things, and I'm in a better position"},{"speaker":"Sean McDowell","startTime":1225.827,"endTime":1229.508,"body":"to know if this is someone I should marry.\" I actually think"},{"speaker":"Sean McDowell","startTime":1229.508,"endTime":1232.417,"body":"it's the opposite. I actually think when you're living that"},{"speaker":"Sean McDowell","startTime":1232.417,"endTime":1232.468,"body":"close-"},{"speaker":"Scott Rae","startTime":1232.468,"endTime":1233.428,"body":"You're, you're still dating"},{"speaker":"Sean McDowell","startTime":1233.428,"endTime":1237.327,"body":"... It makes it harder to break up. One reason"},{"speaker":"Sean McDowell","startTime":1237.327,"endTime":1240.248,"body":"is you've kind of already committed, so it becomes easy to"},{"speaker":"Sean McDowell","startTime":1240.248,"endTime":1244.508,"body":"just excuse these things away. And another reason is if you're"},{"speaker":"Sean McDowell","startTime":1244.508,"endTime":1247.867,"body":"sexually active, you've... There's chemicals in the human"},{"speaker":"Sean McDowell","startTime":1247.867,"endTime":1252.788,"body":"body that create bonding, like oxytocin and vasopressin. So if"},{"speaker":"Sean McDowell","startTime":1252.788,"endTime":1254.607,"body":"you're in the same house with somebody and you're sleeping"},{"speaker":"Sean McDowell","startTime":1254.607,"endTime":1258.407,"body":"with somebody, your body's like, \"We become one.\" And so rather"},{"speaker":"Sean McDowell","startTime":1258.407,"endTime":1261.728,"body":"than having an appropriate distance where you can look at"},{"speaker":"Sean McDowell","startTime":1261.728,"endTime":1265.387,"body":"somebody's character, see if you wanna commit, your body's"},{"speaker":"Sean McDowell","startTime":1265.387,"endTime":1267.708,"body":"telling you, \"Well, you love this person,\" and you're already"},{"speaker":"Sean McDowell","startTime":1267.708,"endTime":1272.268,"body":"in a house with this person and excuse more things away. So I"},{"speaker":"Sean McDowell","startTime":1272.268,"endTime":1275.248,"body":"actually think the proximity makes it harder to have an"},{"speaker":"Sean McDowell","startTime":1275.248,"endTime":1278.067,"body":"objective assessment of this person's character and if you"},{"speaker":"Sean McDowell","startTime":1278.067,"endTime":1280.587,"body":"should marry them, than if you were apart."},{"speaker":"Scott Rae","startTime":1281.508,"endTime":1282.387,"body":"So,"},{"speaker":"Scott Rae","startTime":1283.928,"endTime":1286.728,"body":"what do you think? I'm curious to hear your take on"},{"speaker":"Scott Rae","startTime":1286.728,"endTime":1287.768,"body":"this."},{"speaker":"Scott Rae","startTime":1289.347,"endTime":1293.268,"body":"You know, you pointed out already that the- culturally,"},{"speaker":"Scott Rae","startTime":1293.268,"endTime":1294.667,"body":"the views of cohabiting"},{"speaker":"Scott Rae","startTime":1295.508,"endTime":1298.748,"body":"have changed radically in the last 30 years."},{"speaker":"Scott Rae","startTime":1301.907,"endTime":1305.048,"body":"And I wonder if it, if it's view... I mean, I think"},{"speaker":"Scott Rae","startTime":1305.048,"endTime":1306.048,"body":"culturally it's viewed as"},{"speaker":"Scott Rae","startTime":1306.607,"endTime":1311.008,"body":"basically morally neutral. You know, I, you know, I don't"},{"speaker":"Scott Rae","startTime":1311.008,"endTime":1313.248,"body":"think anybody's gonna argue the, you know, the merits or"},{"speaker":"Scott Rae","startTime":1313.248,"endTime":1316.407,"body":"demerits. It just, it just really is what it is culturally."},{"speaker":"Scott Rae","startTime":1317.948,"endTime":1321.028,"body":"I wonder if you... Do you think that the negative"},{"speaker":"Scott Rae","startTime":1321.647,"endTime":1324.288,"body":"things that come out of cohabitation, that the study"},{"speaker":"Scott Rae","startTime":1324.288,"endTime":1328.907,"body":"shows, will decrease as people consider it more just kind of a"},{"speaker":"Scott Rae","startTime":1328.907,"endTime":1332.968,"body":"normal thing that couples do before they get married?"},{"speaker":"Sean McDowell","startTime":1332.968,"endTime":1335.288,"body":"I've read quite a few people who make this"},{"speaker":"Sean McDowell","startTime":1335.288,"endTime":1337.958,"body":"argument, that the reason there's negative outcomes is-"},{"speaker":"Scott Rae","startTime":1337.958,"endTime":1338.958,"body":"There's a stigma attached to it"},{"speaker":"Sean McDowell","startTime":1338.958,"endTime":1340.278,"body":"... The stigma against it."},{"speaker":"Scott Rae","startTime":1340.278,"endTime":1340.278,"body":"Yeah."},{"speaker":"Sean McDowell","startTime":1340.278,"endTime":1344.028,"body":"And we hear this in the LGBTQ conversation, that"},{"speaker":"Sean McDowell","startTime":1344.028,"endTime":1347.448,"body":"the reason that, you know, people suffer with comorbidities"},{"speaker":"Sean McDowell","startTime":1347.448,"endTime":1351.367,"body":"is the lack of acceptance in society. So if society becomes"},{"speaker":"Sean McDowell","startTime":1351.367,"endTime":1356.768,"body":"more accepting, those kind of sufferings will decrease. Well,"},{"speaker":"Sean McDowell","startTime":1356.768,"endTime":1360.887,"body":"there is a 2019 Stanford study that found no support for the"},{"speaker":"Sean McDowell","startTime":1360.887,"endTime":1364.708,"body":"idea that as cohabitation becomes socially accepted, it"},{"speaker":"Sean McDowell","startTime":1364.708,"endTime":1368.768,"body":"loses its negative consequences. So they argue that the"},{"speaker":"Sean McDowell","startTime":1368.768,"endTime":1371.288,"body":"effects have stayed steady across place"},{"speaker":"Sean McDowell","startTime":1371.948,"endTime":1377.288,"body":"and across time, and it's called the cohabitation effect because"},{"speaker":"Sean McDowell","startTime":1377.288,"endTime":1380.827,"body":"it seems to be so well known and accepted in the larger"},{"speaker":"Sean McDowell","startTime":1381.548,"endTime":1385.147,"body":"academic realm of people- ... Who study this. It holds across"},{"speaker":"Sean McDowell","startTime":1385.147,"endTime":1389.407,"body":"various countries where living together is practiced widely. So"},{"speaker":"Sean McDowell","startTime":1389.407,"endTime":1392.867,"body":"interesting hypothesis. I'm not aware of the data that backs it"},{"speaker":"Sean McDowell","startTime":1392.867,"endTime":1396.208,"body":"up. I'm aware of this 2019 h- Stanford study that pushes"},{"speaker":"Sean McDowell","startTime":1396.208,"endTime":1399.508,"body":"against it. And I'd also say there's certain things built"},{"speaker":"Sean McDowell","startTime":1399.508,"endTime":1403.548,"body":"into our bodies, built into men and built [chuckles] into women,"},{"speaker":"Sean McDowell","startTime":1403.548,"endTime":1404.367,"body":"that cannot be"},{"speaker":"Sean McDowell","startTime":1404.968,"endTime":1410.208,"body":"molded like clay by society. Marriage is a kind of thing. We"},{"speaker":"Sean McDowell","startTime":1410.208,"endTime":1414.167,"body":"want a kind of commitment. Women want the security of marriage,"},{"speaker":"Sean McDowell","startTime":1414.167,"endTime":1417.288,"body":"and acceptance in society is not gonna change that."},{"speaker":"Scott Rae","startTime":1417.288,"endTime":1418.087,"body":"Sean, I wonder if we could"},{"speaker":"Scott Rae","startTime":1418.627,"endTime":1421.067,"body":"dig a little deeper on one aspect"},{"speaker":"Scott Rae","startTime":1421.607,"endTime":1423.548,"body":"that I didn't see coming"},{"speaker":"Scott Rae","startTime":1424.147,"endTime":1426.387,"body":"in this report, and you mentioned it already. One of the"},{"speaker":"Scott Rae","startTime":1426.387,"endTime":1429.548,"body":"negative outcomes is a higher instance of domestic v- domestic"},{"speaker":"Scott Rae","startTime":1429.548,"endTime":1430.008,"body":"violence-"},{"speaker":"Scott Rae","startTime":1430.807,"endTime":1434.548,"body":"... In cohabitation as opposed to marriage. What, what do you-"},{"speaker":"Scott Rae","startTime":1434.548,"endTime":1437.117,"body":"what does the study suggest about what accounts for that?"},{"speaker":"Scott Rae","startTime":1437.117,"endTime":1439.948,"body":"And what... I'm just curious, what do you think accounts for"},{"speaker":"Scott Rae","startTime":1439.948,"endTime":1443.407,"body":"that? 'Cause that's, that's, that's-... Quite a striking"},{"speaker":"Scott Rae","startTime":1443.407,"endTime":1445.227,"body":"finding, in my view."},{"speaker":"Sean McDowell","startTime":1445.227,"endTime":1447.788,"body":"I, to be honest with you, I am somewhat"},{"speaker":"Sean McDowell","startTime":1448.367,"endTime":1452.247,"body":"guessing as I move above my pay grade, because I'm not a"},{"speaker":"Sean McDowell","startTime":1452.247,"endTime":1457.487,"body":"sociologist or a psychologist, so I hesitate to comment what"},{"speaker":"Sean McDowell","startTime":1457.487,"endTime":1460.667,"body":"exactly accounts for that. I could guess and throw theories"},{"speaker":"Sean McDowell","startTime":1460.667,"endTime":1464.667,"body":"out there, but I think the bottom line is we see a lot of"},{"speaker":"Sean McDowell","startTime":1464.667,"endTime":1469.147,"body":"negative effects in cohabitation, and so we ask-"},{"speaker":"Sean McDowell","startTime":1469.147,"endTime":1472.548,"body":"What's the difference between cohabitation and marriage?"},{"speaker":"Sean McDowell","startTime":1472.548,"endTime":1475.487,"body":"Marriage, there's a public commitment. Marriage, there's a"},{"speaker":"Sean McDowell","startTime":1475.487,"endTime":1479.946,"body":"promise to somebody. Marriage, there's a uniting of your lives"},{"speaker":"Sean McDowell","startTime":1479.946,"endTime":1484.147,"body":"together. And for the case, especially of men, when they get"},{"speaker":"Sean McDowell","startTime":1484.147,"endTime":1487.487,"body":"married and start having kids, it forces this sense of like,"},{"speaker":"Sean McDowell","startTime":1487.487,"endTime":1491.707,"body":"\"Oh, I'm looking out for myself. I've gotta care for my kids."},{"speaker":"Sean McDowell","startTime":1491.707,"endTime":1495.607,"body":"I've gotta care for my wife,\" and it does something to change"},{"speaker":"Sean McDowell","startTime":1495.607,"endTime":1500.007,"body":"a man in some fashion. I think that's a piece of it, but the"},{"speaker":"Sean McDowell","startTime":1500.007,"endTime":1501.807,"body":"data behind it, I don't know that I could-"},{"speaker":"Scott Rae","startTime":1501.807,"endTime":1501.917,"body":"Yeah, okay"},{"speaker":"Sean McDowell","startTime":1501.917,"endTime":1502.647,"body":"... Go any further-"},{"speaker":"Scott Rae","startTime":1502.647,"endTime":1502.887,"body":"Fair enough"},{"speaker":"Sean McDowell","startTime":1502.887,"endTime":1503.686,"body":"... And explain that."},{"speaker":"Scott Rae","startTime":1503.686,"endTime":1505.827,"body":"Well, let me, let me suggest, you know, one of the"},{"speaker":"Scott Rae","startTime":1505.827,"endTime":1508.847,"body":"places I could see cohabiting couples pushing back on this-"},{"speaker":"Scott Rae","startTime":1509.538,"endTime":1511.967,"body":"... Is that particularly in s- in a state, as most states, that"},{"speaker":"Scott Rae","startTime":1511.967,"endTime":1513.397,"body":"have no-fault divorce laws,"},{"speaker":"Scott Rae","startTime":1514.407,"endTime":1519.567,"body":"that, you know, divorce is not nearly as difficult as it was a"},{"speaker":"Scott Rae","startTime":1519.567,"endTime":1523.847,"body":"generation or two ago, where you had to actually had to provide"},{"speaker":"Scott Rae","startTime":1523.847,"endTime":1524.548,"body":"good reasons."},{"speaker":"Scott Rae","startTime":1525.946,"endTime":1528.268,"body":"And, you know, California was one of the first states in the"},{"speaker":"Scott Rae","startTime":1528.268,"endTime":1531.647,"body":"country to legalize no-fault divorce, and that's... The"},{"speaker":"Scott Rae","startTime":1531.647,"endTime":1535.867,"body":"dominoes are just kept falling after that. And so what do you"},{"speaker":"Scott Rae","startTime":1535.867,"endTime":1540.107,"body":"say to the couple who says, \"You know, I can, I can exit a"},{"speaker":"Scott Rae","startTime":1540.107,"endTime":1543.647,"body":"marriage almost as easily as I can exit a cohabitation"},{"speaker":"Scott Rae","startTime":1543.647,"endTime":1547.987,"body":"agreement?\" \"So what's, you know, what's such a big deal"},{"speaker":"Scott Rae","startTime":1547.987,"endTime":1551.548,"body":"about marriage- ... In that regard?\" Because"},{"speaker":"Scott Rae","startTime":1552.147,"endTime":1555.207,"body":"if we, as, if you're describing it, the permanence of"},{"speaker":"Scott Rae","startTime":1555.207,"endTime":1557.107,"body":"marriage is w- is one of the things that"},{"speaker":"Scott Rae","startTime":1557.847,"endTime":1560.567,"body":"it has going for it- ... And that level of trust that comes"},{"speaker":"Scott Rae","startTime":1560.567,"endTime":1563.367,"body":"with that. And I get it, you know, on your, on your wedding"},{"speaker":"Scott Rae","startTime":1563.367,"endTime":1567.167,"body":"day, you make all sorts of wild promises, which I'm c- I"},{"speaker":"Scott Rae","startTime":1567.167,"endTime":1569.768,"body":"tell, I tell couples when I marry them, I say, \"That's the"},{"speaker":"Scott Rae","startTime":1569.768,"endTime":1571.186,"body":"reason we have witnesses here-"},{"speaker":"Sean McDowell","startTime":1571.186,"endTime":1571.757,"body":"[laughing]"},{"speaker":"Scott Rae","startTime":1571.757,"endTime":1573.647,"body":"... Is to bear, to bear witness to these wild"},{"speaker":"Scott Rae","startTime":1573.647,"endTime":1574.196,"body":"promises-"},{"speaker":"Sean McDowell","startTime":1574.196,"endTime":1574.215,"body":"That's totally true"},{"speaker":"Scott Rae","startTime":1574.215,"endTime":1575.156,"body":"... You're making to each other.\""},{"speaker":"Sean McDowell","startTime":1575.156,"endTime":1575.867,"body":"Right, right. [chuckles]"},{"speaker":"Scott Rae","startTime":1576.748,"endTime":1579.367,"body":"But, you know, it is, it is, it is just not that"},{"speaker":"Scott Rae","startTime":1579.367,"endTime":1581.847,"body":"hard- ... To get out of a marriage today. Now, if you've"},{"speaker":"Scott Rae","startTime":1581.847,"endTime":1584.647,"body":"accumulated your property and things like that-"},{"speaker":"Sean McDowell","startTime":1584.647,"endTime":1584.837,"body":"Sure"},{"speaker":"Scott Rae","startTime":1584.837,"endTime":1586.946,"body":"... And if you have kids, then it's, it's a l- it's"},{"speaker":"Scott Rae","startTime":1586.946,"endTime":1591.248,"body":"more challenging. But, you know, for a couple with, you know,"},{"speaker":"Scott Rae","startTime":1591.248,"endTime":1592.967,"body":"double income, no kids,"},{"speaker":"Scott Rae","startTime":1593.847,"endTime":1596.768,"body":"you know, you split up your assets- ... Go your separ- sign"},{"speaker":"Scott Rae","startTime":1596.768,"endTime":1599.827,"body":"the papers and go your separate ways. You know, there's... It's"},{"speaker":"Scott Rae","startTime":1599.827,"endTime":1603.367,"body":"just, it's, it's not that much harder to get out of a marriage"},{"speaker":"Scott Rae","startTime":1603.367,"endTime":1606.587,"body":"today- ... Than it is to get out of a cohabitation agreement."},{"speaker":"Scott Rae","startTime":1606.587,"endTime":1608.847,"body":"Now, granted, in a marriage, you just can't walk out the door and"},{"speaker":"Scott Rae","startTime":1608.847,"endTime":1610.248,"body":"say, \"I'm done.\""},{"speaker":"Sean McDowell","startTime":1610.248,"endTime":1610.727,"body":"Sure."},{"speaker":"Scott Rae","startTime":1610.727,"endTime":1610.837,"body":"But"},{"speaker":"Scott Rae","startTime":1611.867,"endTime":1613.428,"body":"for, I mean, for all practical purposes,"},{"speaker":"Scott Rae","startTime":1614.327,"endTime":1616.446,"body":"you just get the paperwork in motion-"},{"speaker":"Sean McDowell","startTime":1616.446,"endTime":1616.457,"body":"Well, I-"},{"speaker":"Scott Rae","startTime":1616.457,"endTime":1618.268,"body":"... And you do essentially the same thing. That"},{"speaker":"Scott Rae","startTime":1618.268,"endTime":1619.207,"body":"would be the pushback-"},{"speaker":"Sean McDowell","startTime":1619.207,"endTime":1619.768,"body":"Yeah, I'm-"},{"speaker":"Scott Rae","startTime":1619.768,"endTime":1620.317,"body":"... That comes on that"},{"speaker":"Sean McDowell","startTime":1620.317,"endTime":1622.207,"body":"... I'm not a counselor, and there's reasons"},{"speaker":"Sean McDowell","startTime":1622.207,"endTime":1624.928,"body":"why I don't counsel married couples, but what I would"},{"speaker":"Sean McDowell","startTime":1624.928,"endTime":1628.487,"body":"practically do is I'd say, \"Okay, what do you want in this"},{"speaker":"Sean McDowell","startTime":1628.487,"endTime":1632.248,"body":"relationship? What do you want? Do you want this to be a"},{"speaker":"Sean McDowell","startTime":1632.248,"endTime":1636.087,"body":"permanent relationship? Do you want this to last?\" And my"},{"speaker":"Sean McDowell","startTime":1636.087,"endTime":1639.807,"body":"suspicion is, strongly, that both of them do."},{"speaker":"Sean McDowell","startTime":1640.467,"endTime":1643.987,"body":"So should the motivation to not get married, the fact that it's"},{"speaker":"Sean McDowell","startTime":1643.987,"endTime":1648.087,"body":"just as easy to get out as it is a cohabiting relationship,"},{"speaker":"Sean McDowell","startTime":1648.627,"endTime":1652.387,"body":"I wonder if the motivation is not the best here, as opposed to"},{"speaker":"Sean McDowell","startTime":1652.387,"endTime":1656.117,"body":"asking, \"How do we have a long-term relationship-"},{"speaker":"Scott Rae","startTime":1656.117,"endTime":1656.757,"body":"That's the central point"},{"speaker":"Sean McDowell","startTime":1656.757,"endTime":1659.147,"body":"... That lasts?\" That's just the question I would"},{"speaker":"Sean McDowell","startTime":1659.147,"endTime":1660.327,"body":"try to unpack, and I-"},{"speaker":"Scott Rae","startTime":1660.327,"endTime":1660.337,"body":"Yeah"},{"speaker":"Sean McDowell","startTime":1660.337,"endTime":1661.428,"body":"... Would ask them about."},{"speaker":"Scott Rae","startTime":1661.428,"endTime":1661.917,"body":"Yeah, mm-hmm."},{"speaker":"Sean McDowell","startTime":1661.917,"endTime":1663.467,"body":"And I think I... Here's the thing I say more to"},{"speaker":"Sean McDowell","startTime":1663.467,"endTime":1666.167,"body":"students than I do to older couples. I'll say, \"Look, if"},{"speaker":"Sean McDowell","startTime":1666.167,"endTime":1669.686,"body":"somebody says, 'I wanna commit to you, and I want to love you."},{"speaker":"Sean McDowell","startTime":1669.686,"endTime":1671.347,"body":"I just don't wanna get married, it's just a marriage"},{"speaker":"Sean McDowell","startTime":1671.347,"endTime":1671.957,"body":"certificate,'\""},{"speaker":"Sean McDowell","startTime":1672.587,"endTime":1675.387,"body":"I'll say, \"If it's just a marriage certificate before you"},{"speaker":"Sean McDowell","startTime":1675.387,"endTime":1679.107,"body":"get married, then it's just a marriage certificate-"},{"speaker":"Scott Rae","startTime":1679.107,"endTime":1679.117,"body":"That's exactly"},{"speaker":"Sean McDowell","startTime":1679.117,"endTime":1679.807,"body":"... After you get married.\""},{"speaker":"Scott Rae","startTime":1679.807,"endTime":1681.387,"body":"So, so why not get married?"},{"speaker":"Sean McDowell","startTime":1681.387,"endTime":1682.327,"body":"There's something-"},{"speaker":"Scott Rae","startTime":1682.327,"endTime":1683.487,"body":"Exactly. That's exactly right."},{"speaker":"Sean McDowell","startTime":1683.487,"endTime":1686.248,"body":"And the data is there. Now, there could"},{"speaker":"Sean McDowell","startTime":1686.248,"endTime":1689.227,"body":"be couples that are an exception. Fine, of course there"},{"speaker":"Sean McDowell","startTime":1689.227,"endTime":1692.248,"body":"are. But if you're going into this, and you're trying to have"},{"speaker":"Sean McDowell","startTime":1692.248,"endTime":1696.807,"body":"the most relational success as possible, make the highest"},{"speaker":"Sean McDowell","startTime":1696.807,"endTime":1700.548,"body":"promise [chuckles] you can to this other person, regardless of"},{"speaker":"Sean McDowell","startTime":1700.548,"endTime":1703.227,"body":"how easy it is to get out the back door, and that's what we"},{"speaker":"Sean McDowell","startTime":1703.227,"endTime":1704.268,"body":"call marriage."},{"speaker":"Scott Rae","startTime":1704.268,"endTime":1706.727,"body":"Okay, good. Now, you don't have to be a therapist to-"},{"speaker":"Sean McDowell","startTime":1706.727,"endTime":1707.647,"body":"[laughing] That's my apologetics"},{"speaker":"Scott Rae","startTime":1707.647,"endTime":1709.607,"body":"... To dig down. Yeah, no, that's, that's, that's"},{"speaker":"Scott Rae","startTime":1709.607,"endTime":1711.867,"body":"a real- [chuckles] that's a really good answer to that. I"},{"speaker":"Scott Rae","startTime":1711.867,"endTime":1714.946,"body":"mean, I've of- I've often, told people, I say, \"If it's just a"},{"speaker":"Scott Rae","startTime":1714.946,"endTime":1716.987,"body":"piece of paper, then what's holding you back from getting"},{"speaker":"Scott Rae","startTime":1716.987,"endTime":1717.436,"body":"married?\""},{"speaker":"Scott Rae","startTime":1718.248,"endTime":1723.727,"body":"Because I assure you, for most women, it's not just a"},{"speaker":"Scott Rae","startTime":1723.727,"endTime":1725.277,"body":"piece of paper."},{"speaker":"Scott Rae","startTime":1725.946,"endTime":1729.227,"body":"Now, that may be a little strong. I'd say for a"},{"speaker":"Scott Rae","startTime":1729.227,"endTime":1730.887,"body":"sizable portion of women-"},{"speaker":"Sean McDowell","startTime":1730.887,"endTime":1732.087,"body":"Certainly more women than men"},{"speaker":"Scott Rae","startTime":1732.087,"endTime":1733.487,"body":"... Who view that, yeah, who view that differently-"},{"speaker":"Sean McDowell","startTime":1733.487,"endTime":1733.498,"body":"Yeah"},{"speaker":"Scott Rae","startTime":1733.498,"endTime":1735.446,"body":"... It's not just a piece of paper, 'cause it"},{"speaker":"Scott Rae","startTime":1735.446,"endTime":1738.407,"body":"embodies a sense of commitment, that you're going,"},{"speaker":"Scott Rae","startTime":1738.407,"endTime":1741.227,"body":"you're going public with this. And even in the"},{"speaker":"Scott Rae","startTime":1741.227,"endTime":1744.407,"body":"Scriptures, when it says, you know, \"Leave your mother and"},{"speaker":"Scott Rae","startTime":1744.407,"endTime":1746.307,"body":"father,\" that's a public"},{"speaker":"Scott Rae","startTime":1747.867,"endTime":1749.467,"body":"commu- sort of communal"},{"speaker":"Scott Rae","startTime":1750.207,"endTime":1751.607,"body":"witnessed leaving-"},{"speaker":"Scott Rae","startTime":1752.367,"endTime":1754.356,"body":"... That's in view. It's not just two people who decide,"},{"speaker":"Scott Rae","startTime":1754.356,"endTime":1756.548,"body":"\"Well, w- you know, we're out of here to start our own"},{"speaker":"Scott Rae","startTime":1756.548,"endTime":1757.356,"body":"household.\""},{"speaker":"Scott Rae","startTime":1758.268,"endTime":1761.288,"body":"You know, it's a, it's a... It has a public component to"},{"speaker":"Sean McDowell","startTime":1761.288,"endTime":1761.727,"body":"It does"},{"speaker":"Scott Rae","startTime":1761.727,"endTime":1763.907,"body":"... That's re- that's really important,"},{"speaker":"Scott Rae","startTime":1763.907,"endTime":1766.587,"body":"because, again, because you're, you're making [chuckles] you're"},{"speaker":"Scott Rae","startTime":1766.587,"endTime":1770.007,"body":"making some pretty crazy promises to each other, and it's"},{"speaker":"Scott Rae","startTime":1770.007,"endTime":1773.048,"body":"a good thing that we have people around to testify to that-"},{"speaker":"Scott Rae","startTime":1773.567,"endTime":1775.587,"body":"... [chuckles] in the future when you may come to doubt those"},{"speaker":"Scott Rae","startTime":1775.587,"endTime":1776.548,"body":"things."},{"speaker":"Sean McDowell","startTime":1776.548,"endTime":1778.167,"body":"As you're saying this, here's probably what I"},{"speaker":"Sean McDowell","startTime":1778.167,"endTime":1781.867,"body":"would say, because I think you're right, that a girl is"},{"speaker":"Sean McDowell","startTime":1781.867,"endTime":1785.227,"body":"f- probably gonna be far more likely to want the marriage"},{"speaker":"Sean McDowell","startTime":1785.227,"endTime":1788.567,"body":"certificate, all things considered, than the man. So I"},{"speaker":"Sean McDowell","startTime":1788.567,"endTime":1791.987,"body":"might say to the guy, I'd say, \"Do you love her?\" \"Yes.\" \"Do"},{"speaker":"Sean McDowell","startTime":1791.987,"endTime":1796.748,"body":"you want what's best for her? Are you committing to her"},{"speaker":"Sean McDowell","startTime":1796.748,"endTime":1798.928,"body":"through the thick and the thin for your lifetime?\""},{"speaker":"Sean McDowell","startTime":1799.627,"endTime":1803.428,"body":"Turn to her and say, \"If you believe him, what is the best"},{"speaker":"Sean McDowell","startTime":1803.428,"endTime":1806.791,"body":"way he can express this to you?\"... Now, if she says, \"I"},{"speaker":"Sean McDowell","startTime":1806.791,"endTime":1808.211,"body":"don't need a marriage certificate,\" then there's"},{"speaker":"Sean McDowell","startTime":1808.211,"endTime":1810.971,"body":"nothing I could say to convince [chuckles] that couple anyways."},{"speaker":"Scott Rae","startTime":1810.971,"endTime":1811.031,"body":"Right."},{"speaker":"Sean McDowell","startTime":1811.031,"endTime":1812.851,"body":"Chances are she's gonna say, \"I want the"},{"speaker":"Sean McDowell","startTime":1812.851,"endTime":1815.471,"body":"certificate.\" And then either he goes, \"I'm out of here,\" which"},{"speaker":"Sean McDowell","startTime":1815.471,"endTime":1819.051,"body":"means he didn't love her, or he realizes this is the way of"},{"speaker":"Sean McDowell","startTime":1819.051,"endTime":1822.031,"body":"really showing love. That's how I navigate it."},{"speaker":"Scott Rae","startTime":1822.031,"endTime":1824.391,"body":"I would, I- the one thing I'd add to that is"},{"speaker":"Scott Rae","startTime":1824.391,"endTime":1827.551,"body":"I would say, you know, \"Do you respect her enough-"},{"speaker":"Scott Rae","startTime":1828.391,"endTime":1832.152,"body":"... To give her what she wants and what she feels like she"},{"speaker":"Scott Rae","startTime":1832.152,"endTime":1836.152,"body":"needs in order to totally commit to this- ... And make it"},{"speaker":"Scott Rae","startTime":1836.152,"endTime":1839.871,"body":"a success in the long term?\" 'Cause I think you can ma-"},{"speaker":"Scott Rae","startTime":1839.871,"endTime":1841.531,"body":"you can make an argument, I think, that"},{"speaker":"Scott Rae","startTime":1842.432,"endTime":1845.391,"body":"cohabiting without commitment is ultimately, I think,"},{"speaker":"Scott Rae","startTime":1845.391,"endTime":1846.551,"body":"disrespectful-"},{"speaker":"Sean McDowell","startTime":1846.551,"endTime":1846.891,"body":"I agree"},{"speaker":"Scott Rae","startTime":1846.891,"endTime":1847.631,"body":"... To the woman."},{"speaker":"Sean McDowell","startTime":1847.631,"endTime":1848.211,"body":"I agree with that."},{"speaker":"Scott Rae","startTime":1848.211,"endTime":1848.491,"body":"Yeah."},{"speaker":"Scott Rae","startTime":1849.152,"endTime":1852.291,"body":"And she- ... You know, she may not ever express it like that,"},{"speaker":"Scott Rae","startTime":1852.291,"endTime":1854.951,"body":"but I think if they're honest, I think a lot, a lot of"},{"speaker":"Scott Rae","startTime":1854.951,"endTime":1858.09,"body":"women would s- would echo that sentiment."},{"speaker":"Scott Rae","startTime":1860.011,"endTime":1861.711,"body":"All right. Here's"},{"speaker":"Scott Rae","startTime":1862.231,"endTime":1863.551,"body":"so maybe the last question on this."},{"speaker":"Sean McDowell","startTime":1863.551,"endTime":1865.251,"body":"I got a couple we gotta talk about, 'cause we"},{"speaker":"Sean McDowell","startTime":1865.251,"endTime":1866.631,"body":"hinted at it, but we never got to it."},{"speaker":"Scott Rae","startTime":1866.631,"endTime":1867.172,"body":"Okay."},{"speaker":"Sean McDowell","startTime":1867.172,"endTime":1867.761,"body":"So why-"},{"speaker":"Scott Rae","startTime":1867.761,"endTime":1867.761,"body":"All right"},{"speaker":"Sean McDowell","startTime":1867.761,"endTime":1869.751,"body":"... How do most people end up cohabiting? This"},{"speaker":"Sean McDowell","startTime":1869.751,"endTime":1871.59,"body":"is actually really important."},{"speaker":"Scott Rae","startTime":1871.59,"endTime":1872.871,"body":"Okay. I thought we-"},{"speaker":"Sean McDowell","startTime":1872.871,"endTime":1872.912,"body":"So-"},{"speaker":"Scott Rae","startTime":1872.912,"endTime":1873.652,"body":"I thought we'd covered that."},{"speaker":"Sean McDowell","startTime":1873.652,"endTime":1874.571,"body":"We didn't cover that."},{"speaker":"Scott Rae","startTime":1874.571,"endTime":1874.652,"body":"But, okay."},{"speaker":"Sean McDowell","startTime":1874.652,"endTime":1876.971,"body":"No, this is actually really important."},{"speaker":"Scott Rae","startTime":1876.971,"endTime":1877.011,"body":"All right."},{"speaker":"Sean McDowell","startTime":1877.011,"endTime":1882.611,"body":"So most people, 64%, said they slid into living"},{"speaker":"Sean McDowell","startTime":1882.611,"endTime":1886.551,"body":"together and didn't really make a decision together as a couple."},{"speaker":"Sean McDowell","startTime":1886.551,"endTime":1890.432,"body":"So two-thirds, it's more of just kind of like a default,"},{"speaker":"Sean McDowell","startTime":1890.432,"endTime":1895.451,"body":"non-thoughtful, intentional decision. Only 36% of"},{"speaker":"Sean McDowell","startTime":1895.451,"endTime":1898.692,"body":"respondents, of course, in this study, said they talked about it"},{"speaker":"Sean McDowell","startTime":1898.692,"endTime":1903.152,"body":"and made a clear decision. Now, of those who slide into"},{"speaker":"Sean McDowell","startTime":1903.152,"endTime":1908.451,"body":"cohabitation have a 34% chance of marital dissolution, compared"},{"speaker":"Sean McDowell","startTime":1908.451,"endTime":1914.251,"body":"to 21% of those who decide. So if we set Bible and theology"},{"speaker":"Sean McDowell","startTime":1914.251,"endTime":1915.261,"body":"aside, which you and I-"},{"speaker":"Scott Rae","startTime":1915.261,"endTime":1915.261,"body":"Right"},{"speaker":"Sean McDowell","startTime":1915.261,"endTime":1917.291,"body":"... Would say you never should, and we're just"},{"speaker":"Sean McDowell","startTime":1917.291,"endTime":1922.071,"body":"[chuckles] saying the success of a cohabiting relationship,"},{"speaker":"Sean McDowell","startTime":1922.071,"endTime":1925.231,"body":"two-thirds just kind of, \"Oh, let's save money. Fine, let's do"},{"speaker":"Sean McDowell","startTime":1925.231,"endTime":1928.511,"body":"it,\" don't sit down and even talk it through with any"},{"speaker":"Sean McDowell","startTime":1928.511,"endTime":1932.412,"body":"intentionality and common commitment and common goals. And"},{"speaker":"Sean McDowell","startTime":1932.412,"endTime":1935.25,"body":"so the study we're talking about said, \"We know that couples who"},{"speaker":"Sean McDowell","startTime":1935.25,"endTime":1938.491,"body":"have more relationship-driven reasons for important"},{"speaker":"Sean McDowell","startTime":1938.491,"endTime":1941.672,"body":"transitions, like marriage or cohabitation, tend to fare"},{"speaker":"Sean McDowell","startTime":1941.672,"endTime":1946.271,"body":"better than those having event-driven external reasons.\""},{"speaker":"Sean McDowell","startTime":1946.271,"endTime":1949.911,"body":"So if the reasons are save money and convenience, that's"},{"speaker":"Sean McDowell","startTime":1949.911,"endTime":1950.531,"body":"external."},{"speaker":"Scott Rae","startTime":1950.531,"endTime":1950.571,"body":"Right."},{"speaker":"Sean McDowell","startTime":1950.571,"endTime":1953.531,"body":"If it's more, \"I wanna spend time with you, I"},{"speaker":"Sean McDowell","startTime":1953.531,"endTime":1958.132,"body":"wanna be committed to you,\" then it shapes the relationship. So"},{"speaker":"Sean McDowell","startTime":1958.132,"endTime":1960.371,"body":"back at the beginning, when we were making a distinction"},{"speaker":"Sean McDowell","startTime":1960.371,"endTime":1963.991,"body":"between cohabiting couples and why they move in together, the"},{"speaker":"Sean McDowell","startTime":1963.991,"endTime":1967.59,"body":"reasons are huge. And this one, bring- I always brought this up"},{"speaker":"Sean McDowell","startTime":1967.59,"endTime":1969.951,"body":"with students, 'cause they had to have the test-driving"},{"speaker":"Sean McDowell","startTime":1969.951,"endTime":1971.26,"body":"example."},{"speaker":"Scott Rae","startTime":1971.26,"endTime":1971.271,"body":"[chuckles]"},{"speaker":"Sean McDowell","startTime":1971.271,"endTime":1973.132,"body":"Is this is a direct quote from the Institute"},{"speaker":"Sean McDowell","startTime":1973.132,"endTime":1977.071,"body":"for Family Studies- \"Moving in together to test a relationship"},{"speaker":"Sean McDowell","startTime":1977.632,"endTime":1984.672,"body":"might be a uniquely bad reason to cohabit.\" So not all reasons"},{"speaker":"Sean McDowell","startTime":1984.672,"endTime":1985.871,"body":"that people cohabit"},{"speaker":"Sean McDowell","startTime":1986.531,"endTime":1990.132,"body":"are equal. So what are the top ones? This is where the chart in"},{"speaker":"Sean McDowell","startTime":1990.132,"endTime":1994.491,"body":"this study was helpful. 44% said, \"Spend more time with a"},{"speaker":"Sean McDowell","startTime":1994.491,"endTime":1999.571,"body":"partner,\" 17% said, \"Test the relationship,\" 22% said, \"It"},{"speaker":"Sean McDowell","startTime":1999.571,"endTime":2004.111,"body":"made sense financially,\" 17% said, \"It was inconvenient to"},{"speaker":"Sean McDowell","startTime":2004.111,"endTime":2008.291,"body":"live apart.\" So some of those motivations... Now, what they"},{"speaker":"Sean McDowell","startTime":2008.291,"endTime":2011.33,"body":"tie is, how do these motivations fare in terms of marital"},{"speaker":"Sean McDowell","startTime":2011.33,"endTime":2011.961,"body":"dissolution?"},{"speaker":"Sean McDowell","startTime":2012.652,"endTime":2017.111,"body":"For those who said it made sense financially, 40% more likely to"},{"speaker":"Sean McDowell","startTime":2017.111,"endTime":2018.611,"body":"have marital dissolution."},{"speaker":"Scott Rae","startTime":2018.611,"endTime":2018.83,"body":"Wow."},{"speaker":"Sean McDowell","startTime":2019.451,"endTime":2020.652,"body":"So ironically-"},{"speaker":"Scott Rae","startTime":2020.652,"endTime":2020.891,"body":"Yeah"},{"speaker":"Sean McDowell","startTime":2020.891,"endTime":2022.071,"body":"... If somebody's like, \"I'm gonna save"},{"speaker":"Sean McDowell","startTime":2022.071,"endTime":2025.991,"body":"money by living together,\" they end up losing a lot more money"},{"speaker":"Sean McDowell","startTime":2025.991,"endTime":2029.33,"body":"and making things worse for their life, 'cause that's a bad"},{"speaker":"Sean McDowell","startTime":2029.33,"endTime":2034.111,"body":"motivation. Testing the relationship, 33%. The lowest"},{"speaker":"Sean McDowell","startTime":2034.111,"endTime":2037.771,"body":"one was to spend more time together. So if somebody is"},{"speaker":"Sean McDowell","startTime":2037.771,"endTime":2041.251,"body":"motivated and says, \"I really care about you, I wanna move"},{"speaker":"Sean McDowell","startTime":2041.251,"endTime":2042.101,"body":"towards commitment,\""},{"speaker":"Sean McDowell","startTime":2042.891,"endTime":2045.471,"body":"of course, as Christians, we would say, \"Don't cohabit"},{"speaker":"Sean McDowell","startTime":2045.471,"endTime":2049.731,"body":"together.\" There still are some negative outcomes you can, and"},{"speaker":"Sean McDowell","startTime":2049.731,"endTime":2053.831,"body":"likely will, experience, but that's a far better reason than"},{"speaker":"Sean McDowell","startTime":2053.831,"endTime":2056.311,"body":"just saving money to do so."},{"speaker":"Scott Rae","startTime":2056.311,"endTime":2057.471,"body":"Fair enough."},{"speaker":"Scott Rae","startTime":2058.271,"endTime":2060.831,"body":"And so the... Yeah, I think what's helpful is that the"},{"speaker":"Scott Rae","startTime":2060.831,"endTime":2061.431,"body":"reasons"},{"speaker":"Scott Rae","startTime":2062.17,"endTime":2065.092,"body":"actually have a lot to say about the impact"},{"speaker":"Scott Rae","startTime":2065.751,"endTime":2069.492,"body":"that it will have on marital satisfaction and marital"},{"speaker":"Scott Rae","startTime":2069.492,"endTime":2071.231,"body":"permanence. Now-"},{"speaker":"Sean McDowell","startTime":2071.231,"endTime":2072.152,"body":"That's right."},{"speaker":"Scott Rae","startTime":2072.152,"endTime":2073.692,"body":"Okay, now, one final question."},{"speaker":"Sean McDowell","startTime":2073.692,"endTime":2075.072,"body":"Sure. [laughs] Okay."},{"speaker":"Scott Rae","startTime":2075.072,"endTime":2077.211,"body":"I actually did... [chuckles] Never mind."},{"speaker":"Sean McDowell","startTime":2077.211,"endTime":2077.632,"body":"[laughs]"},{"speaker":"Scott Rae","startTime":2079.992,"endTime":2082.251,"body":"What advice do you have for young couples- ... Who"},{"speaker":"Scott Rae","startTime":2082.251,"endTime":2084.911,"body":"are thinking about getting married?"},{"speaker":"Scott Rae","startTime":2086.572,"endTime":2089.51,"body":"And what... This is, this is really, I think, a helpful"},{"speaker":"Scott Rae","startTime":2089.51,"endTime":2090.192,"body":"way to put this-"},{"speaker":"Scott Rae","startTime":2090.811,"endTime":2092.572,"body":"What perspective do you have now-"},{"speaker":"Scott Rae","startTime":2093.492,"endTime":2096.692,"body":"... That you didn't have or might not have had when you were"},{"speaker":"Scott Rae","startTime":2096.692,"endTime":2097.452,"body":"in your 20s"},{"speaker":"Scott Rae","startTime":2098.251,"endTime":2100.112,"body":"thinking about this yourself?"},{"speaker":"Sean McDowell","startTime":2100.112,"endTime":2102.311,"body":"Here's what I would say. If you want to have a"},{"speaker":"Sean McDowell","startTime":2102.311,"endTime":2107.692,"body":"successful, lasting marriage, don't move in together before"},{"speaker":"Sean McDowell","startTime":2107.692,"endTime":2114.092,"body":"you're married, period. Hands down, don't do it. And what I"},{"speaker":"Sean McDowell","startTime":2114.092,"endTime":2118.05,"body":"see now, what I shared earlier, is how the sacrifice you make at"},{"speaker":"Sean McDowell","startTime":2118.05,"endTime":2122.55,"body":"this stage, the choice you make at this stage, the priorities at"},{"speaker":"Sean McDowell","startTime":2122.55,"endTime":2127.271,"body":"this stage, is a kind of basis and a foundation you are setting"},{"speaker":"Sean McDowell","startTime":2127.271,"endTime":2132.152,"body":"your marriage up for the long haul. Don't move in with"},{"speaker":"Sean McDowell","startTime":2132.152,"endTime":2135.981,"body":"this person. And second, you know, I'm in 25 years of being"},{"speaker":"Sean McDowell","startTime":2135.981,"endTime":2139.672,"body":"[chuckles] married, and I love it. I hope I get 25 more plus"},{"speaker":"Sean McDowell","startTime":2139.672,"endTime":2144.592,"body":"with my wife, but it's a long time. This is a long commitment."},{"speaker":"Sean McDowell","startTime":2145.132,"endTime":2150.192,"body":"Take your time, get counsel of those around you who are wise,"},{"speaker":"Sean McDowell","startTime":2150.192,"endTime":2152.231,"body":"who've been married for a long time,"},{"speaker":"Sean McDowell","startTime":2152.831,"endTime":2157.351,"body":"and just know that the biblical plan is for the best. God's"},{"speaker":"Sean McDowell","startTime":2157.351,"endTime":2160.51,"body":"design is not to steal your fun, it's not to cost you"},{"speaker":"Sean McDowell","startTime":2160.51,"endTime":2164.862,"body":"financially, it's to quite literally set you up for marital"},{"speaker":"Sean McDowell","startTime":2164.862,"endTime":2169.931,"body":"and relational success, and it's for your good."},{"speaker":"Scott Rae","startTime":2169.931,"endTime":2171.931,"body":"I think we could close in prayer and go home-"},{"speaker":"Sean McDowell","startTime":2171.931,"endTime":2172.3,"body":"Let's do it"},{"speaker":"Scott Rae","startTime":2172.3,"endTime":2175.632,"body":"... On that one. So yeah, as, you know, my wife and"},{"speaker":"Scott Rae","startTime":2175.632,"endTime":2177.572,"body":"I, we celebrated 40 years last year."},{"speaker":"Sean McDowell","startTime":2178.092,"endTime":2178.721,"body":"Amazing."},{"speaker":"Scott Rae","startTime":2178.721,"endTime":2180.411,"body":"And looking forward. I don't know if we'll"},{"speaker":"Scott Rae","startTime":2180.411,"endTime":2182.282,"body":"get 40 more, but, uh- [laughs]"},{"speaker":"Sean McDowell","startTime":2182.282,"endTime":2182.521,"body":"[laughs]"},{"speaker":"Scott Rae","startTime":2182.521,"endTime":2184.05,"body":"... I'm not so sure about that."},{"speaker":"Sean McDowell","startTime":2184.05,"endTime":2184.632,"body":"Good luck. [laughs]"},{"speaker":"Scott Rae","startTime":2184.632,"endTime":2186.871,"body":"Yeah, I don't think that's gonna happen. But,"},{"speaker":"Scott Rae","startTime":2187.692,"endTime":2190.751,"body":"no, I think- I think we, I think we would both... We, w- you"},{"speaker":"Scott Rae","startTime":2190.751,"endTime":2194.672,"body":"know, we would both suggest that- ... That the fact that we,"},{"speaker":"Scott Rae","startTime":2194.672,"endTime":2197.55,"body":"we did things the way we did has helped set us up"},{"speaker":"Scott Rae","startTime":2198.192,"endTime":2202.112,"body":"for, you know, a long-term success in marriage."},{"speaker":"Sean McDowell","startTime":2202.112,"endTime":2202.711,"body":"Amen."},{"speaker":"Scott Rae","startTime":2202.711,"endTime":2206.211,"body":"Amen. All right. I hope you all found this helpful,"},{"speaker":"Scott Rae","startTime":2206.211,"endTime":2209.672,"body":"Sean. If people want to get hold of this study, can they just"},{"speaker":"Scott Rae","startTime":2209.672,"endTime":2213.831,"body":"Google the Institute for Family Studies report on cohabitation?"},{"speaker":"Sean McDowell","startTime":2213.831,"endTime":2214.442,"body":"Yeah, I think-"},{"speaker":"Scott Rae","startTime":2214.442,"endTime":2214.871,"body":"Will that do it?"},{"speaker":"Sean McDowell","startTime":2214.871,"endTime":2216.711,"body":"I think that's the best. The title is... I'll"},{"speaker":"Sean McDowell","startTime":2216.711,"endTime":2219.771,"body":"give you the specific title here. It is What's the Plan?"},{"speaker":"Sean McDowell","startTime":2219.771,"endTime":2224.371,"body":"Cohabitation, Engagement, and Divorce. Came out in April 2023"},{"speaker":"Sean McDowell","startTime":2224.931,"endTime":2227.652,"body":"by the Institute for Family Studies, and it's available"},{"speaker":"Sean McDowell","startTime":2227.652,"endTime":2227.692,"body":"online."},{"speaker":"Scott Rae","startTime":2227.692,"endTime":2229.331,"body":"Yeah, let's see. We'll, we'll try- we'll put a"},{"speaker":"Scott Rae","startTime":2229.331,"endTime":2231.041,"body":"link, in the-"},{"speaker":"Sean McDowell","startTime":2231.041,"endTime":2231.411,"body":"Perfect"},{"speaker":"Scott Rae","startTime":2231.411,"endTime":2232.891,"body":"... When we post this, we'll put a link to that"},{"speaker":"Scott Rae","startTime":2232.891,"endTime":2234.692,"body":"study. If you wanna read a little bit more on this, we'd"},{"speaker":"Scott Rae","startTime":2234.692,"endTime":2238.572,"body":"encourage you. If you wanna do a deep dive into the data, go for"},{"speaker":"Scott Rae","startTime":2238.572,"endTime":2241.231,"body":"it. Sean, my resident data nerd."},{"speaker":"Sean McDowell","startTime":2241.231,"endTime":2242.351,"body":"[laughs]"},{"speaker":"Scott Rae","startTime":2242.351,"endTime":2243.851,"body":"God bless you for dig-"},{"speaker":"Sean McDowell","startTime":2243.851,"endTime":2244.072,"body":"I'll accept that moniker"},{"speaker":"Scott Rae","startTime":2244.072,"endTime":2246.041,"body":"... Digging deep into that."},{"speaker":"Sean McDowell","startTime":2246.041,"endTime":2246.05,"body":"[chuckles]"},{"speaker":"Scott Rae","startTime":2246.05,"endTime":2247.992,"body":"We hope you found this helpful. If you have"},{"speaker":"Scott Rae","startTime":2247.992,"endTime":2250.891,"body":"questions on this or other subjects or comments you wanna"},{"speaker":"Scott Rae","startTime":2250.891,"endTime":2254.652,"body":"give to us, email us at thinkbiblically@biola.edu."},{"speaker":"Scott Rae","startTime":2254.652,"endTime":2257.371,"body":"That's thinkbiblically@biola.edu. If"},{"speaker":"Scott Rae","startTime":2257.371,"endTime":2260.092,"body":"you're, if you're viewing this, be sure to subscribe to our"},{"speaker":"Scott Rae","startTime":2260.092,"endTime":2262.751,"body":"audio podcast. Feel free to share it with a friend. We"},{"speaker":"Scott Rae","startTime":2262.751,"endTime":2265.51,"body":"really appreciate you viewing and listening to this. We hope"},{"speaker":"Scott Rae","startTime":2265.51,"endTime":2268.672,"body":"you found it helpful, and we encourage you to join us on"},{"speaker":"Scott Rae","startTime":2268.672,"endTime":2272.231,"body":"Friday for our weekly cultural update. In the meantime, think"},{"speaker":"Scott Rae","startTime":2272.231,"endTime":2273.782,"body":"biblically about everything."},{"speaker":"Scott Rae","startTime":2275.431,"endTime":2281.411,"body":"[upbeat music]"}]}