{"version":"1.0.0","segments":[{"speaker":"Sean McDowell","startTime":0.3,"endTime":3.839,"body":"[upbeat music] What is a biblical view of"},{"speaker":"Sean McDowell","startTime":3.839,"endTime":8.3,"body":"exercise? Would Jesus have exercise if he were here bodily"},{"speaker":"Sean McDowell","startTime":8.3,"endTime":12.58,"body":"today? And what are some idols and pitfalls for Christians as"},{"speaker":"Sean McDowell","startTime":12.58,"endTime":16.519,"body":"it relates to exercise? Our guest today is Pastor David"},{"speaker":"Sean McDowell","startTime":16.519,"endTime":20.019,"body":"Mathis, and he's the author of an interesting new book entitled"},{"speaker":"Sean McDowell","startTime":20.019,"endTime":24.1,"body":"A Little Theology of Exercise. I'm your host, Sean McDowell."},{"speaker":"Scott Rae","startTime":24.1,"endTime":25.46,"body":"I'm your co-host, Scott Rae."},{"speaker":"Sean McDowell","startTime":25.46,"endTime":27.379,"body":"And this is the Think Biblically podcast,"},{"speaker":"Sean McDowell","startTime":27.379,"endTime":29.98,"body":"brought to you from Talbot School of Theology, Biola"},{"speaker":"Sean McDowell","startTime":29.98,"endTime":33.429,"body":"University. The moment I saw this book, Scott, I thought,"},{"speaker":"Sean McDowell","startTime":33.429,"endTime":36.64,"body":"\"We've talked about a lot of topics biblically, but never"},{"speaker":"Sean McDowell","startTime":36.64,"endTime":40.659,"body":"exercise. What a wonderful topic to explore!\" So Pastor David,"},{"speaker":"Sean McDowell","startTime":40.659,"endTime":43.259,"body":"thanks for writing just a helpful, interesting book and"},{"speaker":"Sean McDowell","startTime":43.259,"endTime":44.5,"body":"for coming on as a guest."},{"speaker":"David Mathis","startTime":44.5,"endTime":46.799,"body":"[chuckles] Thank you, Sean. Thank you, Scott. It"},{"speaker":"David Mathis","startTime":46.799,"endTime":48.299,"body":"is a joy to be speaking with you."},{"speaker":"Sean McDowell","startTime":48.82,"endTime":50.78,"body":"My, my first question that really hit me is,"},{"speaker":"Sean McDowell","startTime":50.78,"endTime":55.7,"body":"I wanna know what motivated you, distinctly as a pastor, to write"},{"speaker":"Sean McDowell","startTime":55.7,"endTime":58.299,"body":"a theological book on exercise?"},{"speaker":"David Mathis","startTime":59.259,"endTime":60.14,"body":"Yeah, well, I have,"},{"speaker":"David Mathis","startTime":60.88,"endTime":67.48,"body":"I have found in my own life and ministry, that exercise in this"},{"speaker":"David Mathis","startTime":67.48,"endTime":70.819,"body":"modern age, in the 21st century, has been helpful to me, and I"},{"speaker":"David Mathis","startTime":70.819,"endTime":73.5,"body":"wanna share that with others. So there's, there's a personal"},{"speaker":"David Mathis","startTime":73.5,"endTime":77.9,"body":"story there in terms of, h- living an active childhood,"},{"speaker":"David Mathis","startTime":77.9,"endTime":82.469,"body":"young adult period, getting married in 2007, and then living"},{"speaker":"David Mathis","startTime":82.469,"endTime":87.4,"body":"a pretty sedentary life, for several years there. And, after"},{"speaker":"David Mathis","startTime":87.4,"endTime":90.359,"body":"a while, I had accumulated some of that sedentariness around my"},{"speaker":"David Mathis","startTime":90.359,"endTime":93.7,"body":"waistline, and [chuckles] I figured I was about 40 or 50"},{"speaker":"David Mathis","startTime":93.7,"endTime":96.459,"body":"pounds heavier than I really should be at a healthy"},{"speaker":"David Mathis","startTime":96.459,"endTime":101.48,"body":"weight. And so in 2016, I kinda slowly started getting back into"},{"speaker":"David Mathis","startTime":101.48,"endTime":105.62,"body":"being more active, and so it's, it's been a little over 10 years"},{"speaker":"David Mathis","startTime":105.62,"endTime":109.28,"body":"now of- ... In particular for me, it's been running, but"},{"speaker":"David Mathis","startTime":109.28,"endTime":112.42,"body":"there's also been some weightlifting components, and I"},{"speaker":"David Mathis","startTime":112.42,"endTime":115.12,"body":"play a little bit of baseball with my boys. There's some"},{"speaker":"David Mathis","startTime":115.12,"endTime":118.42,"body":"balance components. It, it's pretty modest on the whole. I"},{"speaker":"David Mathis","startTime":118.42,"endTime":122.64,"body":"mean, I'll spend, [tsks] well, less than two hours a week"},{"speaker":"David Mathis","startTime":123.34,"endTime":126.06,"body":"on exercise, but it has made a significant"},{"speaker":"David Mathis","startTime":126.719,"endTime":130.52,"body":"impact on my own soul, not just my body, but my soul. It's"},{"speaker":"David Mathis","startTime":130.52,"endTime":133.86,"body":"helped my ministry. And then, as I've taught on these things over"},{"speaker":"David Mathis","startTime":133.86,"endTime":137.479,"body":"the years, now going on, what, almost eight years of teaching"},{"speaker":"David Mathis","startTime":137.479,"endTime":140.86,"body":"publicly on these things, people have seemed to get some help. It"},{"speaker":"David Mathis","startTime":140.86,"endTime":143.56,"body":"seemed to meet a need. Maybe there's not a lot on the topic"},{"speaker":"David Mathis","startTime":144.12,"endTime":146.379,"body":"from Christians, from pastors to Christians,"},{"speaker":"David Mathis","startTime":146.979,"endTime":149.56,"body":"and so I've, I've found there to be a need and enjoyed teaching"},{"speaker":"David Mathis","startTime":149.56,"endTime":151.719,"body":"on it. And [chuckles] my buddy at Crossway Books"},{"speaker":"David Mathis","startTime":152.24,"endTime":154.02,"body":"suggested, \"Hey, you should put a little book together.\""},{"speaker":"Sean McDowell","startTime":154.02,"endTime":154.129,"body":"There you go."},{"speaker":"David Mathis","startTime":154.129,"endTime":156.56,"body":"He even ma- came up with the title. It's,"},{"speaker":"David Mathis","startTime":157.139,"endTime":159.8,"body":"There's this old book by Helmut Thielicke called A Little"},{"speaker":"David Mathis","startTime":159.8,"endTime":163.4,"body":"Exercise for Young Theologians, and so my friend Justin, I guess"},{"speaker":"David Mathis","startTime":163.4,"endTime":166.039,"body":"he thought that maybe some young theologians needed a little bit"},{"speaker":"David Mathis","startTime":166.039,"endTime":166.919,"body":"of exercise."},{"speaker":"Scott Rae","startTime":166.919,"endTime":167.699,"body":"[laughing]"},{"speaker":"David Mathis","startTime":167.699,"endTime":169.419,"body":"And so that's where the book title came from,"},{"speaker":"David Mathis","startTime":169.419,"endTime":172.5,"body":"and, I mean, he had that idea back in 2017. So I've"},{"speaker":"David Mathis","startTime":172.5,"endTime":175.36,"body":"sat on this for a while, and I wanted to teach on this"},{"speaker":"David Mathis","startTime":175.36,"endTime":179.52,"body":"publicly some before trying to put it in a book, and so that's"},{"speaker":"David Mathis","startTime":179.52,"endTime":182.06,"body":"what I've, I've finally done, and I'm, I'm excited for it to"},{"speaker":"David Mathis","startTime":182.06,"endTime":183.78,"body":"be out here this summer."},{"speaker":"Scott Rae","startTime":183.78,"endTime":187.0,"body":"So David, let's sort of cut to the chase here in"},{"speaker":"Scott Rae","startTime":187.0,"endTime":191.259,"body":"terms of the biblical story. Did Jesus exercise,"},{"speaker":"Scott Rae","startTime":192.52,"endTime":195.74,"body":"in his first-century culture? And if he lived today, in our"},{"speaker":"Scott Rae","startTime":195.74,"endTime":199.52,"body":"largely sedentary culture, would he exercise, in your view?"},{"speaker":"David Mathis","startTime":199.52,"endTime":200.949,"body":"This is such a good question, 'cause I think"},{"speaker":"David Mathis","startTime":200.949,"endTime":205.439,"body":"this really gets at how contextual this is, it-"},{"speaker":"David Mathis","startTime":205.439,"endTime":208.939,"body":"generational, civilizational it is for me. My simple answer is,"},{"speaker":"David Mathis","startTime":208.939,"endTime":210.729,"body":"did Jesus exercise? No,"},{"speaker":"David Mathis","startTime":211.62,"endTime":214.419,"body":"not in the way I would define exercise. So if I, if I borrow a"},{"speaker":"David Mathis","startTime":214.419,"endTime":217.189,"body":"definition of exercise from, [tsks]"},{"speaker":"David Mathis","startTime":218.78,"endTime":221.18,"body":"from a Harvard professor, Daniel Lieberman, very simple"},{"speaker":"David Mathis","startTime":221.18,"endTime":225.199,"body":"definition of voluntary physical activity for the sake of health-"},{"speaker":"David Mathis","startTime":226.02,"endTime":226.03,"body":"..."},{"speaker":"David Mathis","startTime":226.9,"endTime":230.159,"body":"The answer is no with Jesus. He worked with his hands as a"},{"speaker":"David Mathis","startTime":230.159,"endTime":234.58,"body":"carpenter, as a tradesman. He walked everywhere he went. There"},{"speaker":"David Mathis","startTime":234.58,"endTime":238.34,"body":"were no automobiles, so he's walking all over Galilee and 1st"},{"speaker":"David Mathis","startTime":238.34,"endTime":242.199,"body":"century Palestine. And then Jesus wasn't sinful. Jesus"},{"speaker":"David Mathis","startTime":242.199,"endTime":247.259,"body":"didn't have any sin, so he didn't overeat. He wasn't lazy."},{"speaker":"David Mathis","startTime":247.259,"endTime":250.759,"body":"And so the simple answer is, I don't think Jesus exercised in"},{"speaker":"David Mathis","startTime":250.759,"endTime":253.18,"body":"the way that I'm defining exercise. Now, if you ask the"},{"speaker":"David Mathis","startTime":253.18,"endTime":255.759,"body":"question, \"Well, what about today? Like, would he exercise"},{"speaker":"David Mathis","startTime":255.759,"endTime":259.519,"body":"today because we live in this more sedentary age?\" And my"},{"speaker":"David Mathis","startTime":259.519,"endTime":262.24,"body":"answer is, it would depend, I think, on his vocation."},{"speaker":"David Mathis","startTime":262.86,"endTime":266.959,"body":"So if Jesus was a day laborer, if he's working with his hands,"},{"speaker":"David Mathis","startTime":266.959,"endTime":271.579,"body":"if he's on his feet all day, if he's walking, you know, 15 or,"},{"speaker":"David Mathis","startTime":271.579,"endTime":274.699,"body":"or 20 miles in a day on a journey, then I don't think"},{"speaker":"David Mathis","startTime":274.699,"endTime":278.16,"body":"there would be need for additional activity for the sake"},{"speaker":"David Mathis","startTime":278.16,"endTime":281.12,"body":"of health. I think he's already having that natural movement,"},{"speaker":"David Mathis","startTime":281.12,"endTime":283.8,"body":"and that most humans throughout the history of the world have"},{"speaker":"David Mathis","startTime":283.8,"endTime":287.48,"body":"had the the God-designed movement of the human body to"},{"speaker":"David Mathis","startTime":287.48,"endTime":292.459,"body":"have it working at its optimal, function. But for us nowadays,"},{"speaker":"David Mathis","startTime":292.459,"endTime":292.468,"body":"[tsks]"},{"speaker":"David Mathis","startTime":293.079,"endTime":296.86,"body":"man, we got these screens, we got these planes and trains and"},{"speaker":"David Mathis","startTime":296.86,"endTime":299.959,"body":"automobiles. We spend so much time sitting,"},{"speaker":"David Mathis","startTime":300.639,"endTime":302.54,"body":"and we have so many creature comforts,"},{"speaker":"David Mathis","startTime":303.12,"endTime":307.899,"body":"and so I do think exercise is a kind of a modern phenomenon"},{"speaker":"David Mathis","startTime":308.459,"endTime":312.72,"body":"to help us get to the normal levels at which the..."},{"speaker":"David Mathis","startTime":312.72,"endTime":317.019,"body":"The normal levels of movement at which God designed our bodies"},{"speaker":"David Mathis","startTime":317.019,"endTime":318.879,"body":"for. And so"},{"speaker":"David Mathis","startTime":319.959,"endTime":320.62,"body":"if Jesus"},{"speaker":"David Mathis","startTime":321.56,"endTime":324.91,"body":"to- if he was among us today, and if he had a pretty sedentary"},{"speaker":"David Mathis","startTime":324.91,"endTime":327.8,"body":"vocation... So I don't know. I think most pastors probably do"},{"speaker":"David Mathis","startTime":327.8,"endTime":331.22,"body":"have pretty sedentary vocations. We spend times on c- on our time"},{"speaker":"David Mathis","startTime":331.22,"endTime":334.74,"body":"on computer writing a sermon. We do a lot of reading. We're doing"},{"speaker":"David Mathis","startTime":334.74,"endTime":337.22,"body":"counseling appointments where we're sitting down. I think"},{"speaker":"David Mathis","startTime":337.22,"endTime":341.62,"body":"probably the average pastor would be wise to supplement his"},{"speaker":"David Mathis","startTime":341.62,"endTime":345.819,"body":"vocation with some form of exercise. I, and I do suspect"},{"speaker":"David Mathis","startTime":345.819,"endTime":349.6,"body":"that Jesus would maybe do some form of exercise if he lived the"},{"speaker":"David Mathis","startTime":349.6,"endTime":353.899,"body":"kind of sedentary life we do today. And also, as p- as a"},{"speaker":"David Mathis","startTime":353.899,"endTime":356.66,"body":"perfect man, he would not overeat- [chuckles]"},{"speaker":"Scott Rae","startTime":356.66,"endTime":356.68,"body":"Mm-hmm"},{"speaker":"David Mathis","startTime":356.68,"endTime":358.24,"body":"... And Jesus would not be lazy."},{"speaker":"Scott Rae","startTime":358.24,"endTime":358.48,"body":"[chuckles]"},{"speaker":"David Mathis","startTime":358.48,"endTime":360.899,"body":"And so many of us have been cultivated. We have"},{"speaker":"David Mathis","startTime":360.899,"endTime":364.389,"body":"been, by our modern technologies, not just of food,"},{"speaker":"David Mathis","startTime":364.389,"endTime":367.66,"body":"but of creature comforts, we have cultivated a kind of"},{"speaker":"David Mathis","startTime":367.66,"endTime":371.639,"body":"expectation of comfort and expectation of moving as little"},{"speaker":"David Mathis","startTime":371.639,"endTime":375.783,"body":"as possible. When I pull into a parking lot-... And my first"},{"speaker":"David Mathis","startTime":375.783,"endTime":378.723,"body":"thought as a modern person is, \"How can I get the closest space"},{"speaker":"David Mathis","startTime":378.723,"endTime":380.444,"body":"possible?\" [laughing]"},{"speaker":"Scott Rae","startTime":380.444,"endTime":381.223,"body":"[laughing]"},{"speaker":"David Mathis","startTime":381.223,"endTime":382.603,"body":"Instead of walking an extra"},{"speaker":"David Mathis","startTime":383.124,"endTime":384.783,"body":"50 steps? [laughing]"},{"speaker":"David Mathis","startTime":385.403,"endTime":389.303,"body":"And, and modern life has cultivated that kind of instinct"},{"speaker":"David Mathis","startTime":389.303,"endTime":395.124,"body":"in us. And, so I think Jesus would evaluate his"},{"speaker":"David Mathis","startTime":395.124,"endTime":398.923,"body":"own vocation, the activity levels of his life, and then try"},{"speaker":"David Mathis","startTime":398.923,"endTime":402.543,"body":"to make some modest adjustments. I don't- I doubt Jesus would be"},{"speaker":"David Mathis","startTime":402.543,"endTime":403.764,"body":"a bodybuilder."},{"speaker":"Scott Rae","startTime":403.764,"endTime":404.004,"body":"[laughing]"},{"speaker":"David Mathis","startTime":404.004,"endTime":407.204,"body":"I don't think he would run marathons. I think he"},{"speaker":"David Mathis","startTime":407.204,"endTime":409.863,"body":"would think about the optimal kind of physical"},{"speaker":"David Mathis","startTime":409.863,"endTime":411.244,"body":"activity that would serve"},{"speaker":"David Mathis","startTime":411.764,"endTime":415.524,"body":"his own emotional health, his brain health, would make him"},{"speaker":"David Mathis","startTime":415.524,"endTime":417.343,"body":"ready to glorify his Father"},{"speaker":"David Mathis","startTime":417.944,"endTime":421.324,"body":"and to do acts of service that would bless others."},{"speaker":"Sean McDowell","startTime":421.324,"endTime":423.723,"body":"Honestly, David, I think he'd be the ultimate"},{"speaker":"Sean McDowell","startTime":423.723,"endTime":424.824,"body":"deadlifter."},{"speaker":"Scott Rae","startTime":424.824,"endTime":425.303,"body":"[laughing] Okay."},{"speaker":"David Mathis","startTime":425.303,"endTime":425.663,"body":"[laughing]"},{"speaker":"Sean McDowell","startTime":425.663,"endTime":426.043,"body":"Get it?"},{"speaker":"Scott Rae","startTime":426.043,"endTime":426.173,"body":"Nice."},{"speaker":"Sean McDowell","startTime":426.173,"endTime":427.043,"body":"Deadlift."},{"speaker":"Scott Rae","startTime":427.043,"endTime":427.403,"body":"Yeah. [laughing]"},{"speaker":"Sean McDowell","startTime":427.403,"endTime":428.963,"body":"You know, just had to throw that in there."},{"speaker":"Scott Rae","startTime":428.963,"endTime":429.684,"body":"There you go."},{"speaker":"David Mathis","startTime":429.684,"endTime":431.004,"body":"Just after Easter. [laughing]"},{"speaker":"Scott Rae","startTime":431.004,"endTime":433.704,"body":"Yeah. David, would you distinguish between somebody"},{"speaker":"Scott Rae","startTime":433.704,"endTime":434.704,"body":"being active"},{"speaker":"Scott Rae","startTime":435.684,"endTime":439.983,"body":"and somebody who is exercising? Because I think you could make a"},{"speaker":"Scott Rae","startTime":439.983,"endTime":442.863,"body":"good argument that Jesus was very active."},{"speaker":"David Mathis","startTime":442.863,"endTime":443.264,"body":"Correct."},{"speaker":"Scott Rae","startTime":443.264,"endTime":445.944,"body":"And, I mean, and the walking he did... I mean, I've-"},{"speaker":"Scott Rae","startTime":445.944,"endTime":448.944,"body":"if you've been watching The Chosen at all, you see how"},{"speaker":"Scott Rae","startTime":448.944,"endTime":451.324,"body":"much walking they did. And my, you know, my son lives in New"},{"speaker":"Scott Rae","startTime":451.324,"endTime":452.983,"body":"York. He walks everywhere."},{"speaker":"Scott Rae","startTime":454.644,"endTime":458.303,"body":"And so he, I mean, he's very active, but I, but I don't think"},{"speaker":"Scott Rae","startTime":458.303,"endTime":462.463,"body":"he would say that he exercises specifically for the sake of"},{"speaker":"Scott Rae","startTime":462.463,"endTime":462.944,"body":"health."},{"speaker":"Scott Rae","startTime":463.483,"endTime":463.704,"body":"What-"},{"speaker":"David Mathis","startTime":463.704,"endTime":464.024,"body":"Yeah"},{"speaker":"Scott Rae","startTime":464.024,"endTime":465.303,"body":"... What kind of difference would you see"},{"speaker":"Scott Rae","startTime":465.303,"endTime":466.843,"body":"between those?"},{"speaker":"David Mathis","startTime":466.843,"endTime":470.064,"body":"I mean, in the end, it's gonna be, it's,"},{"speaker":"David Mathis","startTime":470.064,"endTime":473.043,"body":"as- in a sense, arbitrary or how we de- how we decide to"},{"speaker":"David Mathis","startTime":473.043,"endTime":476.944,"body":"define exercise. If we're gonna define it in terms of some"},{"speaker":"David Mathis","startTime":476.944,"endTime":478.814,"body":"voluntary physical activity"},{"speaker":"David Mathis","startTime":479.403,"endTime":481.303,"body":"for the sake of health, you know, in other words, you're"},{"speaker":"David Mathis","startTime":481.303,"endTime":485.504,"body":"supplementing something because you're not getting the normal"},{"speaker":"David Mathis","startTime":485.504,"endTime":489.884,"body":"human levels of activity in your pattern of life. You're"},{"speaker":"David Mathis","startTime":489.884,"endTime":493.033,"body":"voluntarily choosing some extra physical activity"},{"speaker":"David Mathis","startTime":493.644,"endTime":496.584,"body":"to take you from your subhuman levels of activity up to the"},{"speaker":"David Mathis","startTime":496.584,"endTime":500.103,"body":"normal human levels. If we're gonna define that as exercise,"},{"speaker":"David Mathis","startTime":500.103,"endTime":503.202,"body":"then yeah, I would go along with your son's instinct"},{"speaker":"David Mathis","startTime":503.202,"endTime":503.624,"body":"there, that"},{"speaker":"David Mathis","startTime":504.403,"endTime":507.084,"body":"if he's living a very active life, he's walking around..."},{"speaker":"David Mathis","startTime":507.084,"endTime":509.463,"body":"And, and automobiles are a huge thing. I mean, I think it's easy"},{"speaker":"David Mathis","startTime":509.463,"endTime":513.442,"body":"for us in the 21st century to just assume the automobile. We"},{"speaker":"David Mathis","startTime":513.442,"endTime":516.024,"body":"think about our most recent technologies of all the screens,"},{"speaker":"David Mathis","startTime":516.624,"endTime":519.942,"body":"and all the screens do have a huge sedentary impact on us"},{"speaker":"David Mathis","startTime":519.942,"endTime":522.563,"body":"because we're usually not moving. We're usually not active"},{"speaker":"David Mathis","startTime":522.563,"endTime":525.004,"body":"when we're in front of those television screens and movie"},{"speaker":"David Mathis","startTime":525.004,"endTime":528.943,"body":"screens, and then often these little pocket screens slow us"},{"speaker":"David Mathis","startTime":528.943,"endTime":532.063,"body":"down and make us less active as well. But that's all built on"},{"speaker":"David Mathis","startTime":532.063,"endTime":537.884,"body":"top of this 20th-century reality of transportation, of the planes"},{"speaker":"David Mathis","startTime":537.884,"endTime":540.703,"body":"and of the automobiles. And so, yeah, if somebody's living a"},{"speaker":"David Mathis","startTime":540.703,"endTime":544.563,"body":"very active life, especially in terms of their activity"},{"speaker":"David Mathis","startTime":544.563,"endTime":549.104,"body":"in transportation, in walking, that really changes the"},{"speaker":"David Mathis","startTime":549.104,"endTime":551.884,"body":"framework. But for those of us who are in automobiles all the"},{"speaker":"David Mathis","startTime":551.884,"endTime":552.224,"body":"time"},{"speaker":"David Mathis","startTime":552.943,"endTime":555.744,"body":"and who are in front of screens all the time, that's something"},{"speaker":"David Mathis","startTime":555.744,"endTime":558.884,"body":"worth evaluating with Christian wisdom and thinking- What does"},{"speaker":"David Mathis","startTime":558.884,"endTime":563.344,"body":"it mean for me to live at the normal human activity levels"},{"speaker":"David Mathis","startTime":563.344,"endTime":566.984,"body":"that God designed this human body to function at in its"},{"speaker":"David Mathis","startTime":567.524,"endTime":569.063,"body":"optimal function?"},{"speaker":"Sean McDowell","startTime":569.063,"endTime":570.844,"body":"David, you have a chapter with the subtitle,"},{"speaker":"Sean McDowell","startTime":570.844,"endTime":573.703,"body":"\"Making Exercise Christian.\" [chuckles] And I'll be honest,"},{"speaker":"Sean McDowell","startTime":573.703,"endTime":576.203,"body":"when I read it, I thought, \"It's probably wise he didn't title"},{"speaker":"Sean McDowell","startTime":576.203,"endTime":580.024,"body":"this Making Exercise Great Again,\" for a lot of reasons."},{"speaker":"Sean McDowell","startTime":580.024,"endTime":580.994,"body":"[laughing]"},{"speaker":"David Mathis","startTime":580.994,"endTime":581.764,"body":"[laughing] Yeah, that's right."},{"speaker":"Sean McDowell","startTime":581.764,"endTime":583.644,"body":"But, you know, you ask a question in there that"},{"speaker":"Sean McDowell","startTime":583.644,"endTime":586.844,"body":"I think is really the heart of the question. You says... You"},{"speaker":"Sean McDowell","startTime":586.844,"endTime":589.364,"body":"say, \"How do I make exercise"},{"speaker":"Sean McDowell","startTime":590.144,"endTime":591.224,"body":"holy?\""},{"speaker":"David Mathis","startTime":591.224,"endTime":591.283,"body":"Right."},{"speaker":"Sean McDowell","startTime":591.283,"endTime":593.484,"body":"Tell us what you conclude."},{"speaker":"David Mathis","startTime":593.484,"endTime":595.964,"body":"Okay, well, I've, I've pinned that on a particular"},{"speaker":"David Mathis","startTime":595.964,"endTime":596.443,"body":"text"},{"speaker":"David Mathis","startTime":597.124,"endTime":602.744,"body":"in 1 Timothy 4, where Paul is addressing bodily activity. So"},{"speaker":"David Mathis","startTime":602.744,"endTime":606.124,"body":"he's talking about food, and he's talking about the marriage"},{"speaker":"David Mathis","startTime":606.124,"endTime":609.443,"body":"bed, but I think it's also fair to make application to our"},{"speaker":"David Mathis","startTime":609.443,"endTime":613.844,"body":"sleep. It's also fair to make application to exercise. And the"},{"speaker":"David Mathis","startTime":613.844,"endTime":617.183,"body":"text is insightful for how we take bodily life that"},{"speaker":"David Mathis","startTime":617.183,"endTime":620.283,"body":"God's given to us. In this world, we have these bodies, we"},{"speaker":"David Mathis","startTime":620.283,"endTime":624.744,"body":"have this age, this life, and how do we make that life holy?"},{"speaker":"David Mathis","startTime":624.744,"endTime":627.423,"body":"Not do it just like animals, where we just move from instinct"},{"speaker":"David Mathis","startTime":627.423,"endTime":630.104,"body":"to instinct, or like non-believers, but how do we, as"},{"speaker":"David Mathis","startTime":630.104,"endTime":633.803,"body":"Christians, make bodily life, real-world life, holy?"},{"speaker":"David Mathis","startTime":634.344,"endTime":638.264,"body":"And so Paul says there that, \"God created food, the marriage"},{"speaker":"David Mathis","startTime":638.264,"endTime":641.644,"body":"bed, to be received with thanksgiving by those who"},{"speaker":"David Mathis","startTime":641.644,"endTime":645.823,"body":"believe and know the truth,\" Verse 4 of 1 Timothy 4, \"For"},{"speaker":"David Mathis","startTime":645.823,"endTime":648.823,"body":"everything created by God is good, and nothing is to be"},{"speaker":"David Mathis","startTime":648.823,"endTime":653.563,"body":"rejected if it is received with thanksgiving,\" Verse 5, \"for it"},{"speaker":"David Mathis","startTime":653.563,"endTime":658.543,"body":"is made holy...\" There's the holiness. \"It's made holy by the"},{"speaker":"David Mathis","startTime":658.543,"endTime":660.134,"body":"Word of God and prayer.\""},{"speaker":"David Mathis","startTime":661.024,"endTime":666.203,"body":"So my question is- What does it mean to make bodily life holy by"},{"speaker":"David Mathis","startTime":666.203,"endTime":667.024,"body":"the Word of God"},{"speaker":"David Mathis","startTime":667.563,"endTime":667.994,"body":"and prayer?"},{"speaker":"David Mathis","startTime":668.703,"endTime":671.923,"body":"But I think what the Word of God means there is, it's what God"},{"speaker":"David Mathis","startTime":671.923,"endTime":674.783,"body":"says about it. What, what purpose does God Himself, who"},{"speaker":"David Mathis","startTime":674.783,"endTime":677.823,"body":"made the world, who made the body, who made life, what does"},{"speaker":"David Mathis","startTime":677.823,"endTime":682.073,"body":"He say about His design, about His purpose? What's God's story"},{"speaker":"David Mathis","startTime":682.644,"endTime":686.144,"body":"about food? What's God's story about the marriage bed? What's"},{"speaker":"David Mathis","startTime":686.144,"endTime":689.043,"body":"God's story about sleep, and about our bodies, and our"},{"speaker":"David Mathis","startTime":689.043,"endTime":692.364,"body":"exercise, and our movement? And so I think we want to begin"},{"speaker":"David Mathis","startTime":692.364,"endTime":696.663,"body":"there with- What does God say about this activity? And so in,"},{"speaker":"David Mathis","startTime":696.663,"endTime":701.583,"body":"in the book, I go through some major stages of God's story"},{"speaker":"David Mathis","startTime":701.583,"endTime":706.624,"body":"about our bodies. Our bodies are in storied. Part of the story is"},{"speaker":"David Mathis","startTime":706.624,"endTime":710.583,"body":"that He made them, and that they are fallen because of sin, and"},{"speaker":"David Mathis","startTime":710.583,"endTime":713.964,"body":"that God Himself, in the person of His Son, took a human body"},{"speaker":"David Mathis","startTime":713.964,"endTime":716.604,"body":"and accomplished our redemption in a human body,"},{"speaker":"David Mathis","startTime":717.203,"endTime":721.443,"body":"and that the Holy Spirit dwells in our human bodies. Just as we"},{"speaker":"David Mathis","startTime":721.443,"endTime":722.543,"body":"have indwelling sin,"},{"speaker":"David Mathis","startTime":723.104,"endTime":725.384,"body":"so we also have the indwelling Holy Spirit,"},{"speaker":"David Mathis","startTime":725.923,"endTime":729.344,"body":"and that God calls us to live right now, in this age, in this"},{"speaker":"David Mathis","startTime":729.344,"endTime":732.683,"body":"moment, in our bodies, in a way that glorifies Him. And then the"},{"speaker":"David Mathis","startTime":732.683,"endTime":733.923,"body":"last step of that story is"},{"speaker":"David Mathis","startTime":734.484,"endTime":735.864,"body":"you have a spectacular"},{"speaker":"David Mathis","startTime":736.403,"endTime":738.083,"body":"bodily upgrade that is coming"},{"speaker":"David Mathis","startTime":738.683,"endTime":741.631,"body":"if you're a Christian.... So the Word of God here, how to make,"},{"speaker":"David Mathis","startTime":741.631,"endTime":745.552,"body":"how to make your body holy and your exercise holy by the Word"},{"speaker":"David Mathis","startTime":745.552,"endTime":749.331,"body":"of God and prayer. First, what God says about your body is"},{"speaker":"David Mathis","startTime":749.331,"endTime":752.131,"body":"important. We wanna know what the Scriptures have to say about"},{"speaker":"David Mathis","startTime":752.131,"endTime":755.831,"body":"our bodies and about the movement of our bodies, that we"},{"speaker":"David Mathis","startTime":755.831,"endTime":758.831,"body":"would, as we think about a definition of exercise. But then"},{"speaker":"David Mathis","startTime":758.831,"endTime":762.152,"body":"He doesn't just end with, \"By the Word of God,\" He says, \"and"},{"speaker":"David Mathis","startTime":762.152,"endTime":763.812,"body":"prayer.\" Make it holy"},{"speaker":"David Mathis","startTime":764.432,"endTime":768.231,"body":"by the Word of God and prayer. So He means for us, in light of"},{"speaker":"David Mathis","startTime":768.231,"endTime":772.692,"body":"what God says and reveals, that we ourselves get involved. We"},{"speaker":"David Mathis","startTime":772.692,"endTime":777.572,"body":"have the dignity of prayer, of asking- ... God for help, of"},{"speaker":"David Mathis","startTime":777.572,"endTime":780.331,"body":"consecrating a moment. This, this is why it's, it's so"},{"speaker":"David Mathis","startTime":780.331,"endTime":781.152,"body":"appropriate that we would,"},{"speaker":"David Mathis","startTime":781.672,"endTime":785.192,"body":"we would pause to pray over breakfast, lunch, and dinner."},{"speaker":"David Mathis","startTime":785.192,"endTime":787.091,"body":"This, it's a profoundly Christian thing"},{"speaker":"David Mathis","startTime":787.611,"endTime":789.491,"body":"to stop and pray before a meal."},{"speaker":"David Mathis","startTime":790.192,"endTime":794.072,"body":"You're asking God to consecrate the moment. You're making that"},{"speaker":"David Mathis","startTime":794.072,"endTime":798.032,"body":"moment holy with your holy consciousness, your heart, your"},{"speaker":"David Mathis","startTime":798.032,"endTime":800.991,"body":"mind as a Christian, your posture of humility and"},{"speaker":"David Mathis","startTime":800.991,"endTime":805.711,"body":"dependence upon Him, to ask God, the Creator, to bless, to"},{"speaker":"David Mathis","startTime":805.711,"endTime":809.072,"body":"consecrate the moment of eating. And I think the same applies to"},{"speaker":"David Mathis","startTime":809.072,"endTime":812.011,"body":"exercise, that you would make it holy by living in light of what"},{"speaker":"David Mathis","startTime":812.011,"endTime":814.292,"body":"God says about your body and its movement, and I'll try to"},{"speaker":"David Mathis","startTime":814.292,"endTime":818.611,"body":"summarize that in the book, and then to pray about it. So, so"},{"speaker":"David Mathis","startTime":818.611,"endTime":819.572,"body":"very practically,"},{"speaker":"David Mathis","startTime":820.331,"endTime":824.731,"body":"[chuckles] as I went for a run this morning, I pause at"},{"speaker":"David Mathis","startTime":824.731,"endTime":827.851,"body":"the beginning, and I'll say a little short prayer of, \"God,"},{"speaker":"David Mathis","startTime":827.851,"endTime":831.831,"body":"would you, help me as I run? Would you keep me from injury,"},{"speaker":"David Mathis","startTime":831.831,"endTime":834.331,"body":"and then would you bring about good purposes in my body? Help"},{"speaker":"David Mathis","startTime":834.331,"endTime":837.652,"body":"me to think well. Help me to feel well as a Christian. Make"},{"speaker":"David Mathis","startTime":837.652,"endTime":840.951,"body":"my legs strong, make my body strong, so that I can care well"},{"speaker":"David Mathis","startTime":840.951,"endTime":843.532,"body":"for my wife and for my family, and do what you called me to"},{"speaker":"David Mathis","startTime":843.532,"endTime":844.951,"body":"do.\" And then"},{"speaker":"David Mathis","startTime":845.572,"endTime":847.611,"body":"I like to pray at the end. [chuckles] I've developed this"},{"speaker":"David Mathis","startTime":847.611,"endTime":851.032,"body":"instinct. When I, when I finish up with a run, I just say,"},{"speaker":"David Mathis","startTime":851.032,"endTime":853.731,"body":"\"Thank you, God. Thank you for upholding me. Thank you that my"},{"speaker":"David Mathis","startTime":853.731,"endTime":856.552,"body":"lungs work. Thank you that I didn't twist an ankle along the"},{"speaker":"David Mathis","startTime":856.552,"endTime":860.912,"body":"way.\" And then sometimes I'll... I've got a big hill as I come"},{"speaker":"David Mathis","startTime":860.912,"endTime":863.851,"body":"back toward my house. There's a park not far from our house, and"},{"speaker":"David Mathis","startTime":863.851,"endTime":866.131,"body":"I'll go run around the park, and there's a big hill on the way"},{"speaker":"David Mathis","startTime":866.131,"endTime":870.11,"body":"up, and that big hill prompts me to pray for help."},{"speaker":"David Mathis","startTime":870.11,"endTime":873.672,"body":"[chuckles] \"God, help me keep going. Help me not give in too"},{"speaker":"David Mathis","startTime":873.672,"endTime":878.392,"body":"easily here.\" And so, exercising in light of what God says about"},{"speaker":"David Mathis","startTime":878.392,"endTime":881.072,"body":"our bodies, not what the world says, not what we intuit. What"},{"speaker":"David Mathis","startTime":881.072,"endTime":884.371,"body":"does He say about our bodies? And then making those moments"},{"speaker":"David Mathis","startTime":884.371,"endTime":888.371,"body":"holy by asking for His help, and thanking Him, thanking"},{"speaker":"David Mathis","startTime":888.371,"endTime":892.211,"body":"Him through prayer as He provides. So, David, I suspect"},{"speaker":"David Mathis","startTime":892.211,"endTime":895.471,"body":"that maybe some of our listeners are wondering this abou- at"},{"speaker":"David Mathis","startTime":895.471,"endTime":896.591,"body":"about this point"},{"speaker":"David Mathis","startTime":897.111,"endTime":900.611,"body":"in the episode, 'cause they recognize that, you know, maybe"},{"speaker":"David Mathis","startTime":900.611,"endTime":903.511,"body":"they're, they're not the f- the folks who are exercising"},{"speaker":"David Mathis","startTime":903.511,"endTime":907.971,"body":"regularly. This is the question that I wanna... That they"},{"speaker":"David Mathis","startTime":907.971,"endTime":909.971,"body":"may be thinking about, that, you know,"},{"speaker":"David Mathis","startTime":910.552,"endTime":912.971,"body":"except for people who have significant physical"},{"speaker":"David Mathis","startTime":912.971,"endTime":920.412,"body":"limitations, is it a sin to not exercise? I would say no. No,"},{"speaker":"David Mathis","startTime":920.412,"endTime":924.312,"body":"it's not a sin, not if your life is sufficiently active, not if"},{"speaker":"David Mathis","startTime":924.312,"endTime":927.812,"body":"your consumption is modest. And, and then the question I would"},{"speaker":"David Mathis","startTime":927.812,"endTime":931.591,"body":"want to ask, like, so are you ready to do good works?"},{"speaker":"David Mathis","startTime":931.591,"endTime":932.932,"body":"That's the kind of fitness"},{"speaker":"David Mathis","startTime":933.652,"endTime":938.091,"body":"that I think Scripture would call us to, is, are we ready to"},{"speaker":"David Mathis","startTime":938.091,"endTime":941.971,"body":"do good works? That's a phrase that Paul uses, Titus 3-1. He"},{"speaker":"David Mathis","startTime":941.971,"endTime":946.631,"body":"uses it again in 2 Timothy 2-21, to be ready to do good for"},{"speaker":"David Mathis","startTime":946.631,"endTime":952.572,"body":"others. And so, I do think exercise is very much a modern"},{"speaker":"David Mathis","startTime":952.572,"endTime":956.652,"body":"phenomenon, a modern opportunity for us to judge with Christian"},{"speaker":"David Mathis","startTime":956.652,"endTime":961.572,"body":"wisdom. And if you are... If you're in an occupation where"},{"speaker":"David Mathis","startTime":961.572,"endTime":964.032,"body":"you're on your feet, you're working with your hands, you're"},{"speaker":"David Mathis","startTime":964.032,"endTime":966.221,"body":"getting sufficient human activity"},{"speaker":"David Mathis","startTime":966.792,"endTime":967.951,"body":"in your life already,"},{"speaker":"David Mathis","startTime":968.532,"endTime":970.74,"body":"I don't think you need to supplement that with exercise."},{"speaker":"David Mathis","startTime":970.74,"endTime":974.532,"body":"And exercise is this parenthetical, it's this remedy"},{"speaker":"David Mathis","startTime":974.532,"endTime":978.871,"body":"to a modern problem, and if your body is in the, in the"},{"speaker":"David Mathis","startTime":978.871,"endTime":981.892,"body":"fitness that God would require for you to be ready to do others"},{"speaker":"David Mathis","startTime":981.892,"endTime":985.272,"body":"good, this is not world-class muscles, this is not world-class"},{"speaker":"David Mathis","startTime":985.272,"endTime":988.621,"body":"endurance. This is- So you're, you're not recommending-"},{"speaker":"David Mathis","startTime":988.621,"endTime":991.272,"body":"[chuckles] ... Training for triathlons? I am not. [chuckles]"},{"speaker":"David Mathis","startTime":991.272,"endTime":995.251,"body":"No, no. There's no expectation. This, this is a very modest"},{"speaker":"David Mathis","startTime":995.251,"endTime":996.692,"body":"encouragement,"},{"speaker":"David Mathis","startTime":997.282,"endTime":1001.631,"body":"for us as Christians to steward these bodies. And, and,"},{"speaker":"David Mathis","startTime":1001.631,"endTime":1003.792,"body":"you know, you can get to the point, you can build muscles"},{"speaker":"David Mathis","startTime":1003.792,"endTime":1006.491,"body":"that are so big that they're in the way of doing good work. And"},{"speaker":"David Mathis","startTime":1006.491,"endTime":1009.392,"body":"you can have such a workout routine, you're so committed to"},{"speaker":"David Mathis","startTime":1009.392,"endTime":1013.631,"body":"be at the gym this often or on all this triathlon training or"},{"speaker":"David Mathis","startTime":1013.631,"endTime":1014.351,"body":"marathon training,"},{"speaker":"David Mathis","startTime":1014.871,"endTime":1017.231,"body":"you are so committed to the training, you're actually"},{"speaker":"David Mathis","startTime":1017.231,"endTime":1020.251,"body":"cutting yourselves off from the good that God's calling you to"},{"speaker":"David Mathis","startTime":1020.251,"endTime":1022.731,"body":"do in your life. Like, do you have availability to help"},{"speaker":"David Mathis","startTime":1022.731,"endTime":1027.571,"body":"people? So I do think one of the pole stars that"},{"speaker":"David Mathis","startTime":1027.571,"endTime":1032.751,"body":"we wanna bring in to this whole exercise constellation is- Is my"},{"speaker":"David Mathis","startTime":1032.751,"endTime":1036.551,"body":"exercise serving the good of others? Is it, is it getting my"},{"speaker":"David Mathis","startTime":1036.551,"endTime":1039.632,"body":"body into such condition and keeping it in that condition,"},{"speaker":"David Mathis","startTime":1039.632,"endTime":1043.652,"body":"which is pretty modest, that I'm able and ready to help others?"},{"speaker":"David Mathis","startTime":1044.332,"endTime":1047.471,"body":"That I'm able to glorify God by letting my light shine in such a"},{"speaker":"David Mathis","startTime":1047.471,"endTime":1050.711,"body":"way that others would see my good deeds and give glory to my"},{"speaker":"David Mathis","startTime":1050.711,"endTime":1054.872,"body":"Father in Heaven, not glory to me. You know, if your"},{"speaker":"David Mathis","startTime":1054.872,"endTime":1058.291,"body":"exercise is producing the kind of physique where people are"},{"speaker":"David Mathis","startTime":1058.291,"endTime":1061.092,"body":"just always giving glory to you, there's no glory to your Father,"},{"speaker":"David Mathis","startTime":1061.092,"endTime":1062.051,"body":"there's glory to you"},{"speaker":"David Mathis","startTime":1062.571,"endTime":1065.632,"body":"with your stunning physique, then that's not the call"},{"speaker":"David Mathis","startTime":1066.152,"endTime":1070.112,"body":"that we're making here for exercise. But, no, I would"},{"speaker":"David Mathis","startTime":1070.112,"endTime":1074.172,"body":"not consider it a sin if someone's not exercising. Now,"},{"speaker":"David Mathis","startTime":1074.172,"endTime":1074.852,"body":"if their,"},{"speaker":"David Mathis","startTime":1075.471,"endTime":1076.951,"body":"if their life is full of"},{"speaker":"David Mathis","startTime":1077.511,"endTime":1078.231,"body":"laziness"},{"speaker":"David Mathis","startTime":1078.852,"endTime":1082.892,"body":"and gluttony, then I'd want to ask about that and pull on that"},{"speaker":"David Mathis","startTime":1082.892,"endTime":1087.781,"body":"some and see how exercise might be a God-given path to fight"},{"speaker":"David Mathis","startTime":1087.781,"endTime":1091.251,"body":"those various sins of modern life. Now, I can't speak for"},{"speaker":"David Mathis","startTime":1091.251,"endTime":1094.031,"body":"Sean on this, but nobody's gonna mistake my physique for"},{"speaker":"David Mathis","startTime":1094.031,"endTime":1098.692,"body":"stunning. [laughing]"},{"speaker":"Sean McDowell","startTime":1098.692,"endTime":1100.142,"body":"I will not comment on that one, Scott-"},{"speaker":"David Mathis","startTime":1100.142,"endTime":1100.281,"body":"[chuckles] Right"},{"speaker":"Sean McDowell","startTime":1101.031,"endTime":1103.932,"body":"... Just for the record. Y- David, I'm, I'm"},{"speaker":"Sean McDowell","startTime":1103.932,"endTime":1107.432,"body":"really curious because I actually love exercising. I"},{"speaker":"Sean McDowell","startTime":1107.432,"endTime":1111.352,"body":"enjoy it. I played basketball at Biola back in the day and have"},{"speaker":"Sean McDowell","startTime":1111.352,"endTime":1115.031,"body":"always enjoyed pushing myself, combeat- competing, the"},{"speaker":"Sean McDowell","startTime":1115.031,"endTime":1119.655,"body":"endorphins, and I don't-... I don't know how to help other"},{"speaker":"Sean McDowell","startTime":1119.655,"endTime":1123.234,"body":"people find [chuckles] that joy who don't. And you talk about"},{"speaker":"Sean McDowell","startTime":1123.234,"endTime":1127.965,"body":"how you exercise because it brings you joy. What would you"},{"speaker":"Sean McDowell","startTime":1127.965,"endTime":1131.455,"body":"say to someone who's like, \"I just don't find any joy in this?"},{"speaker":"Sean McDowell","startTime":1131.455,"endTime":1135.234,"body":"It's just such a task, and it's painful for me.\" Is it just find"},{"speaker":"Sean McDowell","startTime":1135.234,"endTime":1138.596,"body":"another way to be active, or is the response, \"No, here's how"},{"speaker":"Sean McDowell","startTime":1138.596,"endTime":1141.836,"body":"you can exercise and find joy in it?\""},{"speaker":"David Mathis","startTime":1141.836,"endTime":1143.276,"body":"Yeah, that's a great question."},{"speaker":"David Mathis","startTime":1144.096,"endTime":1144.226,"body":"I,"},{"speaker":"David Mathis","startTime":1144.976,"endTime":1148.836,"body":"I would wanna say, I mean, I- that exercise is typically an"},{"speaker":"David Mathis","startTime":1148.836,"endTime":1152.155,"body":"acquired pleasure. So I just wanna concede that and let"},{"speaker":"David Mathis","startTime":1152.155,"endTime":1155.016,"body":"people know that right out the gate. I'm, I'm assuming that"},{"speaker":"David Mathis","startTime":1155.016,"endTime":1156.316,"body":"many of my listeners"},{"speaker":"David Mathis","startTime":1157.076,"endTime":1159.855,"body":"are hearing this and thinking- Wow, I don't really"},{"speaker":"David Mathis","startTime":1159.855,"endTime":1162.994,"body":"enjoy it. It's hard. It's challenging. And, and that"},{"speaker":"David Mathis","startTime":1162.994,"endTime":1166.036,"body":"is true. Like, it should be that. And one nice thing"},{"speaker":"David Mathis","startTime":1166.036,"endTime":1169.435,"body":"about basketball, Sean, is that you get... Your mind is on the"},{"speaker":"David Mathis","startTime":1169.435,"endTime":1171.816,"body":"goal. You're not thinking about how much you're running. You"},{"speaker":"David Mathis","startTime":1171.816,"endTime":1174.536,"body":"know, you're preoccupied- ... With something else. You end up"},{"speaker":"David Mathis","startTime":1174.536,"endTime":1177.195,"body":"getting a lot of [chuckles] exercise without thinking about"},{"speaker":"David Mathis","startTime":1177.195,"endTime":1179.596,"body":"it when you're playing basketball. But,"},{"speaker":"David Mathis","startTime":1180.755,"endTime":1183.655,"body":"but the, It's hard work, and so for, especially for someone"},{"speaker":"David Mathis","startTime":1183.655,"endTime":1186.755,"body":"who's not in shape, they're- they have a very sedentary life,"},{"speaker":"David Mathis","startTime":1186.755,"endTime":1190.316,"body":"you know, maybe a whole life or maybe years of being"},{"speaker":"David Mathis","startTime":1190.316,"endTime":1195.255,"body":"sedentary, just a few modest steps is the beginning of the"},{"speaker":"David Mathis","startTime":1195.255,"endTime":1200.695,"body":"process. So the goal is not to be able to do a triathlon,"},{"speaker":"David Mathis","startTime":1200.695,"endTime":1203.875,"body":"perhaps ever, not to run a marathon right out of the gate."},{"speaker":"David Mathis","startTime":1203.875,"endTime":1207.115,"body":"You don't, you don't get there overnight. One thing would be"},{"speaker":"David Mathis","startTime":1207.115,"endTime":1210.675,"body":"is, you know, if you- if your typical pattern of life is a few"},{"speaker":"David Mathis","startTime":1210.675,"endTime":1211.744,"body":"hundred steps a day"},{"speaker":"David Mathis","startTime":1212.316,"endTime":1215.935,"body":"or a couple thousand steps a day, what change might it be if"},{"speaker":"David Mathis","startTime":1215.935,"endTime":1219.675,"body":"you added in a five-minute period of walking every other"},{"speaker":"David Mathis","startTime":1219.675,"endTime":1219.915,"body":"day?"},{"speaker":"David Mathis","startTime":1220.576,"endTime":1222.955,"body":"I think walking's very helpful here. And in the ch-"},{"speaker":"David Mathis","startTime":1222.955,"endTime":1226.435,"body":"last chapter, I commend that walking counts. That, that"},{"speaker":"David Mathis","startTime":1226.435,"endTime":1229.056,"body":"really does matter. That's one thing that God designed our"},{"speaker":"David Mathis","startTime":1229.056,"endTime":1229.895,"body":"bodies to do,"},{"speaker":"David Mathis","startTime":1230.455,"endTime":1234.135,"body":"is to walk, except in unusual circumstances of injury or"},{"speaker":"David Mathis","startTime":1234.135,"endTime":1234.855,"body":"disability."},{"speaker":"David Mathis","startTime":1235.836,"endTime":1239.415,"body":"But walking gets the heart rate up. Walking can accomplish a"},{"speaker":"David Mathis","startTime":1239.415,"endTime":1243.096,"body":"lot. And so if someone is saying to me, \"Hey, I just, I"},{"speaker":"David Mathis","startTime":1243.096,"endTime":1245.195,"body":"don't enjoy this at all,\" I would say,"},{"speaker":"David Mathis","startTime":1246.155,"endTime":1249.076,"body":"\"Well, give it some time, you know? Did you enjoy the first"},{"speaker":"David Mathis","startTime":1249.076,"endTime":1249.755,"body":"cup of coffee"},{"speaker":"David Mathis","startTime":1250.296,"endTime":1252.175,"body":"that you ever had?\" There, there are some things that are"},{"speaker":"David Mathis","startTime":1252.175,"endTime":1256.255,"body":"acquired tastes, and exercise is typically one of those."},{"speaker":"David Mathis","startTime":1256.255,"endTime":1259.496,"body":"And if you know this is good for you to combat laziness"},{"speaker":"David Mathis","startTime":1260.056,"endTime":1262.615,"body":"and to have a little bit more activity in your life, you can"},{"speaker":"David Mathis","startTime":1262.615,"endTime":1265.316,"body":"start out in some very modest ways. And then there are some"},{"speaker":"David Mathis","startTime":1265.316,"endTime":1268.655,"body":"other things that we can, that we can talk about. You know,"},{"speaker":"David Mathis","startTime":1268.655,"endTime":1270.355,"body":"people talk about the runner's high."},{"speaker":"David Mathis","startTime":1271.336,"endTime":1275.036,"body":"Another way to talk about it is the persistence high, where"},{"speaker":"David Mathis","startTime":1275.036,"endTime":1278.375,"body":"if you do a semi-strenuous activity"},{"speaker":"David Mathis","startTime":1278.996,"endTime":1284.796,"body":"and you continue in that for 20 minutes or more, there's a... We"},{"speaker":"David Mathis","startTime":1284.796,"endTime":1288.215,"body":"talk about the endorphin payoff. And endorphins can be part of"},{"speaker":"David Mathis","startTime":1288.215,"endTime":1291.155,"body":"that. I think the most c- most recent research talks about"},{"speaker":"David Mathis","startTime":1291.155,"endTime":1292.375,"body":"the endocannabinoids,"},{"speaker":"David Mathis","startTime":1292.895,"endTime":1296.635,"body":"which is the body's own marijuana, so to speak."},{"speaker":"David Mathis","startTime":1296.635,"endTime":1297.365,"body":"[chuckles] The,"},{"speaker":"David Mathis","startTime":1298.476,"endTime":1301.596,"body":"the body has these receptors for endocannabinoids, and that's"},{"speaker":"David Mathis","startTime":1301.596,"endTime":1305.255,"body":"what cannabis binds to. The cannabis creates the"},{"speaker":"David Mathis","startTime":1305.255,"endTime":1310.016,"body":"calming, satisfied effect of having pushed the body for"},{"speaker":"David Mathis","startTime":1310.016,"endTime":1313.135,"body":"20-plus minutes. That, that runner's high is very similar"},{"speaker":"David Mathis","startTime":1313.135,"endTime":1316.355,"body":"to the effects of cannabis. It's hijacking the"},{"speaker":"David Mathis","startTime":1316.355,"endTime":1319.796,"body":"nat- the natural system. That's a way that shows how God"},{"speaker":"David Mathis","startTime":1319.796,"endTime":1322.576,"body":"made our bodies to exert themselves and then for our"},{"speaker":"David Mathis","startTime":1322.576,"endTime":1326.516,"body":"bodies to reward ourselves for that kind of exertion."},{"speaker":"David Mathis","startTime":1327.076,"endTime":1330.355,"body":"And so if someone's learning to do, over the course of six"},{"speaker":"David Mathis","startTime":1330.355,"endTime":1333.435,"body":"months or a year, incorporate a little bit of walking in their"},{"speaker":"David Mathis","startTime":1333.435,"endTime":1334.635,"body":"lives, maybe it's a simple"},{"speaker":"David Mathis","startTime":1335.195,"endTime":1337.576,"body":"little step counter. We have these little wearables now. You"},{"speaker":"David Mathis","startTime":1337.576,"endTime":1340.996,"body":"can get a very inexpensive one and count your steps. You can"},{"speaker":"David Mathis","startTime":1340.996,"endTime":1344.056,"body":"count your steps for a few weeks and say- \"Huh, now I've got a"},{"speaker":"David Mathis","startTime":1344.056,"endTime":1347.596,"body":"certain pattern. Could I increase my steps?\" And you may"},{"speaker":"David Mathis","startTime":1347.596,"endTime":1350.076,"body":"be surprised over time. You don't need to rush this. This"},{"speaker":"David Mathis","startTime":1350.076,"endTime":1353.496,"body":"could be, this could be months, this could be years of slowly"},{"speaker":"David Mathis","startTime":1353.496,"endTime":1356.096,"body":"increasing your steps. You may get to the point where you might"},{"speaker":"David Mathis","startTime":1356.096,"endTime":1359.855,"body":"wanna do a little bit more. Add in a little bit of resistance"},{"speaker":"David Mathis","startTime":1359.855,"endTime":1362.135,"body":"training or weight training, something like that, in a very"},{"speaker":"David Mathis","startTime":1362.135,"endTime":1365.395,"body":"modest way. So I would want somebody who comes with the"},{"speaker":"David Mathis","startTime":1365.395,"endTime":1369.445,"body":"initial instinct of, \"I don't like exercise,\" I would say,"},{"speaker":"David Mathis","startTime":1369.445,"endTime":1373.096,"body":"\"That's okay. That's normal. And would you, would you give a few"},{"speaker":"David Mathis","startTime":1373.096,"endTime":1376.976,"body":"things a chance, and don't have the verdict come in too quickly"},{"speaker":"David Mathis","startTime":1376.976,"endTime":1379.516,"body":"on that before you've tried some things?\""},{"speaker":"Sean McDowell","startTime":1379.516,"endTime":1382.336,"body":"And, David, you also mentioned that exercise"},{"speaker":"Sean McDowell","startTime":1382.336,"endTime":1386.076,"body":"helps us enjoy God more fully. Can you just spell out a little"},{"speaker":"Sean McDowell","startTime":1386.076,"endTime":1388.516,"body":"bit how that works?"},{"speaker":"David Mathis","startTime":1388.516,"endTime":1390.056,"body":"Yeah, that... And this is really the heart of my"},{"speaker":"David Mathis","startTime":1390.056,"endTime":1391.415,"body":"burden, Scott. The,"},{"speaker":"David Mathis","startTime":1395.234,"endTime":1395.496,"body":"[exhales]"},{"speaker":"David Mathis","startTime":1396.076,"endTime":1402.036,"body":"in exercise alone does not produce spiritual joy, it,"},{"speaker":"David Mathis","startTime":1402.036,"endTime":1406.715,"body":"it can produce a kind of natural joy. Just, and"},{"speaker":"David Mathis","startTime":1406.715,"endTime":1408.715,"body":"there's all sorts of layers to that. One thing is,"},{"speaker":"David Mathis","startTime":1409.695,"endTime":1412.734,"body":"if you set out a plan, even a five-minute, 10-minute plan, and"},{"speaker":"David Mathis","startTime":1412.734,"endTime":1416.395,"body":"you do it, you can feel a sense of accomplishment from it, the,"},{"speaker":"David Mathis","startTime":1416.395,"endTime":1419.056,"body":"the dopamine of just accomplishing a task, not to"},{"speaker":"David Mathis","startTime":1419.056,"endTime":1421.476,"body":"mention the endocannabinoids, as I talked about, and the other"},{"speaker":"David Mathis","startTime":1421.476,"endTime":1425.296,"body":"ways that exercise can be a natural joy. The way that it"},{"speaker":"David Mathis","startTime":1425.296,"endTime":1428.576,"body":"would serve spiritual joy, there are multiple ways,"},{"speaker":"David Mathis","startTime":1428.576,"endTime":1433.076,"body":"but one is that as I come to pursue spiritual joy by"},{"speaker":"David Mathis","startTime":1433.076,"endTime":1437.536,"body":"communing with God in His Word and in prayer and with others in"},{"speaker":"David Mathis","startTime":1437.536,"endTime":1440.935,"body":"the life of the local church, I don't wanna come into that"},{"speaker":"David Mathis","startTime":1440.935,"endTime":1445.215,"body":"pursuit of spiritual joy with a natural joy deficit. [chuckles]"},{"speaker":"David Mathis","startTime":1445.215,"endTime":1448.415,"body":"If, if you come in really encumbered in your natural joy,"},{"speaker":"David Mathis","startTime":1448.415,"endTime":1451.036,"body":"that's gonna affect your spiritual joy. These, these are"},{"speaker":"David Mathis","startTime":1451.036,"endTime":1452.234,"body":"enigmatic,"},{"speaker":"David Mathis","startTime":1453.415,"endTime":1456.195,"body":"[lips smack] connections and relationships, the way that the,"},{"speaker":"David Mathis","startTime":1456.195,"endTime":1459.435,"body":"the acts of our body, the joys of our body relate to the"},{"speaker":"David Mathis","startTime":1459.435,"endTime":1459.895,"body":"soul"},{"speaker":"David Mathis","startTime":1460.455,"endTime":1463.755,"body":"and the way that a spiritual joy relates to the physical. I mean,"},{"speaker":"David Mathis","startTime":1463.755,"endTime":1467.096,"body":"you go a night without sleep, and you'll see how hard it is to"},{"speaker":"David Mathis","startTime":1467.096,"endTime":1471.796,"body":"have spiritual joy in God. So you are better prepared to"},{"speaker":"David Mathis","startTime":1471.796,"endTime":1474.875,"body":"enjoy God through His Word, through the company of"},{"speaker":"David Mathis","startTime":1474.875,"endTime":1477.755,"body":"fellowship in the local church, and in prayer, through having"},{"speaker":"David Mathis","startTime":1477.755,"endTime":1478.775,"body":"got a full night's sleep"},{"speaker":"David Mathis","startTime":1479.296,"endTime":1483.336,"body":"and having gotten modest exercise for the body. So my"},{"speaker":"David Mathis","startTime":1483.336,"endTime":1486.915,"body":"hope in this project, very similar to sleep or other"},{"speaker":"David Mathis","startTime":1486.915,"endTime":1491.223,"body":"aspects of life in the body-... Is that as we pursue joy in God,"},{"speaker":"David Mathis","startTime":1491.223,"endTime":1494.604,"body":"which is the paradigmatic joy, it's the great joy in which to"},{"speaker":"David Mathis","startTime":1494.604,"endTime":1499.183,"body":"pursue, that these would be helps or boosts. They're not the"},{"speaker":"David Mathis","startTime":1499.183,"endTime":1503.542,"body":"joy in and of itself. The joy of exercise is not the goal of the"},{"speaker":"David Mathis","startTime":1503.542,"endTime":1508.443,"body":"Christian life. At the heart of the Christian life is to glorify"},{"speaker":"David Mathis","startTime":1508.443,"endTime":1512.063,"body":"God by enjoying Him forever, as the Westminster Catechism begins"},{"speaker":"David Mathis","startTime":1512.063,"endTime":1516.023,"body":"with that. I'm gonna glorify God, not just and enjoy"},{"speaker":"David Mathis","startTime":1516.023,"endTime":1519.634,"body":"Him, but you can glorify God by enjoying Him. I can say more"},{"speaker":"David Mathis","startTime":1519.634,"endTime":1523.023,"body":"about that in a minute, if that would help. And, I wanna pursue"},{"speaker":"David Mathis","startTime":1523.023,"endTime":1527.124,"body":"that as someone who is coming not with a natural joy deficit,"},{"speaker":"David Mathis","startTime":1527.124,"endTime":1531.644,"body":"and whatever boost there might be from modest fitness, from"},{"speaker":"David Mathis","startTime":1531.644,"endTime":1536.203,"body":"exercise, then I wanna take that boost up to God. I wanna read my"},{"speaker":"David Mathis","startTime":1536.203,"endTime":1539.923,"body":"Bible with more clarity, and attention, and energy, and pray"},{"speaker":"David Mathis","startTime":1539.923,"endTime":1543.384,"body":"without distraction, and be someone who's a better listener"},{"speaker":"David Mathis","startTime":1543.384,"endTime":1545.584,"body":"at church and a better contributor to the"},{"speaker":"David Mathis","startTime":1545.584,"endTime":1549.624,"body":"conversations between believers that are a vital means of grace,"},{"speaker":"David Mathis","startTime":1549.624,"endTime":1551.542,"body":"in our Christian lives."},{"speaker":"Sean McDowell","startTime":1551.542,"endTime":1552.942,"body":"When I was reading your book, I almost had"},{"speaker":"Sean McDowell","startTime":1552.942,"endTime":1555.983,"body":"more questions at the end of the book than I started with,"},{"speaker":"Sean McDowell","startTime":1556.583,"endTime":1559.803,"body":"and that's a compliment, actually, because you made me"},{"speaker":"Sean McDowell","startTime":1559.803,"endTime":1562.483,"body":"think about a lot of stuff [chuckles] biblically. So I,"},{"speaker":"Sean McDowell","startTime":1562.483,"endTime":1564.663,"body":"I'm thinking at the end, I'm like, \"Okay...\" And by the way,"},{"speaker":"Sean McDowell","startTime":1564.663,"endTime":1568.824,"body":"the book is titled A Little Theology of Exercise. It's meant"},{"speaker":"Sean McDowell","startTime":1568.824,"endTime":1572.583,"body":"to do exactly what the title says. But at the end, I'm"},{"speaker":"Sean McDowell","startTime":1572.583,"endTime":1575.663,"body":"thinking, \"Is there a biblical way to think about different"},{"speaker":"Sean McDowell","startTime":1575.663,"endTime":1577.644,"body":"kinds of exercise?"},{"speaker":"Sean McDowell","startTime":1578.183,"endTime":1582.042,"body":"Like, are some better than others? Is it the physical"},{"speaker":"Sean McDowell","startTime":1582.042,"endTime":1586.903,"body":"exercise itself, what we do with our bodies, or is it the way we"},{"speaker":"Sean McDowell","startTime":1586.903,"endTime":1589.874,"body":"think about it in our souls?\" And you made a statement earlier"},{"speaker":"Sean McDowell","startTime":1589.874,"endTime":1592.763,"body":"that you didn't think Jesus would be a bodybuilder."},{"speaker":"David Mathis","startTime":1592.763,"endTime":1593.344,"body":"[chuckles]"},{"speaker":"Sean McDowell","startTime":1593.344,"endTime":1596.943,"body":"Like, is there something intrinsically about"},{"speaker":"Sean McDowell","startTime":1596.943,"endTime":1601.144,"body":"that kind of exercise that's maybe sinful or wrong? 'Cause"},{"speaker":"Sean McDowell","startTime":1601.144,"endTime":1604.023,"body":"I've had that conversation with bodybuilders,"},{"speaker":"Sean McDowell","startTime":1604.542,"endTime":1607.183,"body":"and so I'm just... I'm curious how you would approach different"},{"speaker":"Sean McDowell","startTime":1607.183,"endTime":1610.943,"body":"kinds of exercises and what biblical principles we should at"},{"speaker":"Sean McDowell","startTime":1610.943,"endTime":1613.743,"body":"least keep in mind as thinking about them."},{"speaker":"David Mathis","startTime":1613.743,"endTime":1615.523,"body":"Yeah, that's a, that's a great question, Sean."},{"speaker":"David Mathis","startTime":1615.523,"endTime":1615.683,"body":"The,"},{"speaker":"David Mathis","startTime":1616.653,"endTime":1619.432,"body":"I, just to clarify, I don't think I would say that"},{"speaker":"David Mathis","startTime":1619.432,"endTime":1625.163,"body":"bodybuilding, per se, is a sin. I don't suspect that Jesus, as"},{"speaker":"David Mathis","startTime":1625.163,"endTime":1629.782,"body":"the one God man, would embody humanity as a"},{"speaker":"David Mathis","startTime":1629.782,"endTime":1632.433,"body":"bodybuilder. [chuckles] But I do think that pe-"},{"speaker":"Sean McDowell","startTime":1632.433,"endTime":1632.433,"body":"[chuckles]"},{"speaker":"David Mathis","startTime":1632.433,"endTime":1633.583,"body":"... That Christians could be"},{"speaker":"David Mathis","startTime":1633.583,"endTime":1637.583,"body":"bodybuilders. That wouldn't necessarily be a sin. I do"},{"speaker":"David Mathis","startTime":1637.583,"endTime":1641.483,"body":"think what I would want to ask about any kind of exercise is,"},{"speaker":"David Mathis","startTime":1641.483,"endTime":1644.223,"body":"what's the goal and purpose? Like, what am I trying to do"},{"speaker":"David Mathis","startTime":1644.223,"endTime":1647.023,"body":"with this? Like, if it's weightlifting, if it's running,"},{"speaker":"David Mathis","startTime":1647.023,"endTime":1649.763,"body":"if it's balance exercise, like yoga, those are typically the"},{"speaker":"David Mathis","startTime":1649.763,"endTime":1652.703,"body":"big three categories you hear about is cardiovascular"},{"speaker":"David Mathis","startTime":1652.703,"endTime":1655.782,"body":"training, which is exercise, riding the bike, doing something"},{"speaker":"David Mathis","startTime":1655.782,"endTime":1658.333,"body":"where the heart rate is elevated for an extended period of time,"},{"speaker":"David Mathis","startTime":1658.943,"endTime":1661.364,"body":"or there's resistance training, that's weightlifting. That can"},{"speaker":"David Mathis","startTime":1661.364,"endTime":1663.003,"body":"be push-ups, that can be pull-ups,"},{"speaker":"David Mathis","startTime":1663.723,"endTime":1667.263,"body":"and then balance training, which is yoga, other exercises where"},{"speaker":"David Mathis","startTime":1667.263,"endTime":1671.824,"body":"you're working on your balance. And, I do think in evaluating"},{"speaker":"David Mathis","startTime":1671.824,"endTime":1677.523,"body":"those, I'm wanting to think, what am I seeking from this,"},{"speaker":"David Mathis","startTime":1677.523,"endTime":1681.723,"body":"from this exer- from this exercise? Like, am I, am I"},{"speaker":"David Mathis","startTime":1681.723,"endTime":1684.344,"body":"seeking to present my body in such a way"},{"speaker":"David Mathis","startTime":1684.923,"endTime":1688.563,"body":"that is not in accord with what the Bible would have us do as"},{"speaker":"David Mathis","startTime":1688.563,"endTime":1690.782,"body":"Christians? Like, what are, what are the biblical goals I'm"},{"speaker":"David Mathis","startTime":1690.782,"endTime":1696.083,"body":"seeking? I wanna commend three goals that are kind of one goal."},{"speaker":"David Mathis","startTime":1696.083,"endTime":1699.063,"body":"[chuckles] That would be glorify God in your body"},{"speaker":"David Mathis","startTime":1699.824,"endTime":1703.983,"body":"through having joy in Him, and that joy overflows to meet the"},{"speaker":"David Mathis","startTime":1703.983,"endTime":1708.644,"body":"needs of others. So the glory of God, through enjoying who He is,"},{"speaker":"David Mathis","startTime":1708.644,"endTime":1712.324,"body":"marveling at who God is in Christ for us, having a soul"},{"speaker":"David Mathis","startTime":1712.324,"endTime":1715.782,"body":"that in is in the right condition to enjoy the goodness"},{"speaker":"David Mathis","startTime":1715.782,"endTime":1718.683,"body":"of God and marvel at Him through His Word. And then I wanna be a"},{"speaker":"David Mathis","startTime":1718.683,"endTime":1722.803,"body":"more loving person. A, a soul that is full of Him,"},{"speaker":"David Mathis","startTime":1723.523,"endTime":1727.443,"body":"filled up through Him, can then pour out for others. So I do"},{"speaker":"David Mathis","startTime":1727.443,"endTime":1730.344,"body":"wanna run, as we think on different kinds of"},{"speaker":"David Mathis","startTime":1730.344,"endTime":1734.083,"body":"exercises, run them through the grid of,"},{"speaker":"David Mathis","startTime":1734.644,"endTime":1737.344,"body":"how is this helping my calling as a Christian? How is this"},{"speaker":"David Mathis","startTime":1737.344,"endTime":1741.483,"body":"serving the health of my soul that glorifies my Father and"},{"speaker":"David Mathis","startTime":1741.483,"endTime":1742.263,"body":"that serves"},{"speaker":"David Mathis","startTime":1742.782,"endTime":1745.103,"body":"other people? And those are gonna be different questions. I,"},{"speaker":"David Mathis","startTime":1745.103,"endTime":1749.304,"body":"I think within the breadth of healthy Christianity,"},{"speaker":"David Mathis","startTime":1749.304,"endTime":1751.403,"body":"there may be some who are bodybuilders, there may be some"},{"speaker":"David Mathis","startTime":1751.403,"endTime":1752.144,"body":"who,"},{"speaker":"David Mathis","startTime":1752.943,"endTime":1754.103,"body":"their particular,"},{"speaker":"David Mathis","startTime":1754.824,"endTime":1758.523,"body":"their particular hobby, you know, their manifestation is"},{"speaker":"David Mathis","startTime":1758.523,"endTime":1761.423,"body":"they do distance bike stuff, or they're marathoners."},{"speaker":"David Mathis","startTime":1762.824,"endTime":1765.344,"body":"Those answer... Those will probably be answered differently"},{"speaker":"David Mathis","startTime":1765.344,"endTime":1770.384,"body":"for people. At the heart of it, I wanna encourage your"},{"speaker":"David Mathis","startTime":1770.384,"endTime":1773.943,"body":"average, normal Christian, who's not the extreme athlete, is not"},{"speaker":"David Mathis","startTime":1773.943,"endTime":1777.003,"body":"the professional athlete, is not the bodybuilder, I wanna"},{"speaker":"David Mathis","startTime":1777.003,"endTime":1779.603,"body":"encourage the average Christian to think about how modest"},{"speaker":"David Mathis","startTime":1779.603,"endTime":1783.042,"body":"exercise, modest activity in those different areas, some"},{"speaker":"David Mathis","startTime":1783.042,"endTime":1786.824,"body":"resistance training, some cardio, can help serve the body"},{"speaker":"David Mathis","startTime":1786.824,"endTime":1789.243,"body":"in such a way that it serves the soul"},{"speaker":"David Mathis","startTime":1789.903,"endTime":1793.723,"body":"and makes us Christians who are able to accomplish the purposes"},{"speaker":"David Mathis","startTime":1793.723,"endTime":1794.743,"body":"that God's called us to"},{"speaker":"David Mathis","startTime":1795.423,"endTime":1800.523,"body":"in the challenges of modern life and our sedentary age."},{"speaker":"Sean McDowell","startTime":1800.523,"endTime":1802.703,"body":"I really think this is a strength of your book,"},{"speaker":"Sean McDowell","startTime":1802.703,"endTime":1806.384,"body":"that you're, rather than diving into the particulars of exactly"},{"speaker":"Sean McDowell","startTime":1806.384,"endTime":1810.394,"body":"what kind of weightlifting or running or biking, just saying,"},{"speaker":"Sean McDowell","startTime":1810.394,"endTime":1814.983,"body":"\"Let's sift all this through why God gave us bodies, what it"},{"speaker":"Sean McDowell","startTime":1814.983,"endTime":1820.183,"body":"means to glorify God, love my neighbor,\" and just sifting it"},{"speaker":"Sean McDowell","startTime":1820.183,"endTime":1824.324,"body":"through that lens is gonna bring a lot of clarity. Now, you talk"},{"speaker":"Sean McDowell","startTime":1824.324,"endTime":1827.743,"body":"about other stuff in your book, about how sin affects the body"},{"speaker":"Sean McDowell","startTime":1827.743,"endTime":1830.903,"body":"and people who maybe can't exercise, what it looks like for"},{"speaker":"Sean McDowell","startTime":1830.903,"endTime":1833.923,"body":"them to glorify God in their bodies, so there's so much more"},{"speaker":"Sean McDowell","startTime":1833.923,"endTime":1835.903,"body":"here. But let me just end with this question-"},{"speaker":"Sean McDowell","startTime":1836.603,"endTime":1839.583,"body":"Who did you write the book for, and how do you hope people use"},{"speaker":"Sean McDowell","startTime":1839.583,"endTime":1841.003,"body":"it?"},{"speaker":"David Mathis","startTime":1841.003,"endTime":1842.563,"body":"Yeah. Yeah, thank you. I,"},{"speaker":"David Mathis","startTime":1843.384,"endTime":1848.183,"body":"[sighs] I'd love it if people on the extremes"},{"speaker":"David Mathis","startTime":1848.782,"endTime":1850.844,"body":"were inspired, and by extremes, I mean"},{"speaker":"David Mathis","startTime":1851.503,"endTime":1856.976,"body":"someone who-... Is maybe super sedentary and out of weight, out"},{"speaker":"David Mathis","startTime":1856.976,"endTime":1860.355,"body":"of shape and overweight, and just can't even ponder doing"},{"speaker":"David Mathis","startTime":1860.355,"endTime":1861.336,"body":"exercise."},{"speaker":"David Mathis","startTime":1861.895,"endTime":1864.415,"body":"Or on the other extreme end, [chuckles] the world-class"},{"speaker":"David Mathis","startTime":1864.415,"endTime":1867.576,"body":"athlete, the professional athlete. I mean, I hope it could"},{"speaker":"David Mathis","startTime":1867.576,"endTime":1870.016,"body":"be useful to them. I doubt it will be."},{"speaker":"David Mathis","startTime":1870.915,"endTime":1874.715,"body":"I think I really have in mind the m- the folks so- in the"},{"speaker":"David Mathis","startTime":1874.715,"endTime":1878.836,"body":"middle here, most of us, who maybe, you know, we have some"},{"speaker":"David Mathis","startTime":1878.836,"endTime":1882.056,"body":"activity in our life. Maybe we have some sport in our past. We"},{"speaker":"David Mathis","startTime":1882.056,"endTime":1884.776,"body":"used to play basketball or used to do some running or some"},{"speaker":"David Mathis","startTime":1884.776,"endTime":1887.256,"body":"weightlifting in the past or something like that. There,"},{"speaker":"David Mathis","startTime":1887.256,"endTime":1891.016,"body":"there's some activity in our lives, and we're Christians, and"},{"speaker":"David Mathis","startTime":1891.016,"endTime":1894.695,"body":"we want to think better about that and act better to the"},{"speaker":"David Mathis","startTime":1894.695,"endTime":1897.615,"body":"glory of God, the joy of our own souls, the good of others"},{"speaker":"David Mathis","startTime":1897.615,"endTime":1900.076,"body":"through that. And I hope that this framework of asking the"},{"speaker":"David Mathis","startTime":1900.076,"endTime":1902.336,"body":"kind of questions I do, presenting... It's a very short"},{"speaker":"David Mathis","startTime":1902.336,"endTime":1906.056,"body":"book, just a small book, 100 pages, presenting the biblical"},{"speaker":"David Mathis","startTime":1906.056,"endTime":1909.395,"body":"text that I, that I put together, and try to get at some"},{"speaker":"David Mathis","startTime":1909.395,"endTime":1912.756,"body":"of those key motivations in the, in the back part of the book. I"},{"speaker":"David Mathis","startTime":1912.756,"endTime":1916.135,"body":"hope that will help the average Christian think through these"},{"speaker":"David Mathis","startTime":1916.135,"endTime":1919.395,"body":"issues. And, and like you said, Sean, I am not seeking"},{"speaker":"David Mathis","startTime":1919.395,"endTime":1921.846,"body":"to produce a certain workout regimen."},{"speaker":"Sean McDowell","startTime":1921.846,"endTime":1921.895,"body":"[laughs]"},{"speaker":"David Mathis","startTime":1921.895,"endTime":1924.405,"body":"I have hardly... I don't have anything to say"},{"speaker":"David Mathis","startTime":1924.405,"endTime":1924.516,"body":"about diet."},{"speaker":"Sean McDowell","startTime":1924.516,"endTime":1925.615,"body":"You're not, you're not selling w- you're not"},{"speaker":"Sean McDowell","startTime":1925.615,"endTime":1927.355,"body":"selling workout tapes? [laughing]"},{"speaker":"David Mathis","startTime":1927.355,"endTime":1928.875,"body":"[laughing] That's right. Just a-"},{"speaker":"Sean McDowell","startTime":1928.875,"endTime":1928.885,"body":"Tapes"},{"speaker":"David Mathis","startTime":1928.885,"endTime":1930.796,"body":"... A pastoral synthesis-"},{"speaker":"Sean McDowell","startTime":1930.796,"endTime":1930.806,"body":"Oh. [laughs]"},{"speaker":"David Mathis","startTime":1930.806,"endTime":1933.375,"body":"... Of what, of what God has to say in the"},{"speaker":"David Mathis","startTime":1933.375,"endTime":1933.655,"body":"Bible."},{"speaker":"Sean McDowell","startTime":1933.655,"endTime":1933.746,"body":"Uh-"},{"speaker":"David Mathis","startTime":1933.746,"endTime":1935.576,"body":"Which, it, that means it's a little book. Like,"},{"speaker":"David Mathis","startTime":1935.576,"endTime":1939.455,"body":"the, you know, because the Bible was written in ancient times,"},{"speaker":"David Mathis","startTime":1939.455,"endTime":1942.935,"body":"there are principles there that we can bring into our sedentary"},{"speaker":"David Mathis","startTime":1942.935,"endTime":1946.875,"body":"21st century, but there's not a lot of biblical texts that"},{"speaker":"David Mathis","startTime":1946.875,"endTime":1948.635,"body":"bear immediately upon this, though"},{"speaker":"David Mathis","startTime":1949.155,"endTime":1952.036,"body":"theologically, the theology of the body and of human beings and"},{"speaker":"David Mathis","startTime":1952.036,"endTime":1955.036,"body":"the human heart, those are all important realities. But"},{"speaker":"David Mathis","startTime":1955.036,"endTime":1958.675,"body":"I hope that maybe the average Christian be helped. In"},{"speaker":"David Mathis","startTime":1958.675,"endTime":1961.675,"body":"particular, if not through the theology of the body at the"},{"speaker":"David Mathis","startTime":1961.675,"endTime":1965.415,"body":"beginning, I've... I end with five motivations that have been"},{"speaker":"David Mathis","startTime":1965.415,"endTime":1968.695,"body":"significant for me here in the last decade. What gets me out of"},{"speaker":"David Mathis","startTime":1968.695,"endTime":1972.796,"body":"bed, what gets my shoes on, what gets me over the... The most"},{"speaker":"David Mathis","startTime":1972.796,"endTime":1976.415,"body":"difficult hump is starting out a workout. If it's a five-minute"},{"speaker":"David Mathis","startTime":1976.415,"endTime":1980.246,"body":"workout, if it's a 30-minute workout, moving from"},{"speaker":"David Mathis","startTime":1980.816,"endTime":1986.096,"body":"sitting and being stationary to getting into the act of exercise"},{"speaker":"David Mathis","startTime":1986.096,"endTime":1989.355,"body":"is a really important moment, and I hope that those"},{"speaker":"David Mathis","startTime":1989.355,"endTime":1992.776,"body":"motivations, biblical motivations, would be helpful"},{"speaker":"David Mathis","startTime":1992.776,"endTime":1994.484,"body":"for people as they consider exercise."},{"speaker":"Sean McDowell","startTime":1995.076,"endTime":1996.635,"body":"David, I definitely think they are, and"},{"speaker":"Sean McDowell","startTime":1996.635,"endTime":1999.635,"body":"you mentioned the two extremes. I think if I was gonna fall on"},{"speaker":"Sean McDowell","startTime":1999.635,"endTime":2002.885,"body":"either extreme, it'd be working out probably more [chuckles]"},{"speaker":"Sean McDowell","startTime":2002.885,"endTime":2007.036,"body":"than I need to. I enjoy it. I love it. I'm challenged by it,"},{"speaker":"Sean McDowell","startTime":2007.036,"endTime":2009.715,"body":"and I do think your book has something to say to the"},{"speaker":"Sean McDowell","startTime":2009.715,"endTime":2013.316,"body":"world-class athlete and somebody who exercises one or two hours a"},{"speaker":"Sean McDowell","startTime":2013.316,"endTime":2014.576,"body":"day. I mean, you talk about"},{"speaker":"Sean McDowell","startTime":2015.195,"endTime":2018.885,"body":"secular workout culture and its false gods."},{"speaker":"David Mathis","startTime":2018.885,"endTime":2018.976,"body":"Mm-hmm. Right."},{"speaker":"Sean McDowell","startTime":2018.976,"endTime":2022.135,"body":"You ask the question- How does a body"},{"speaker":"Sean McDowell","startTime":2022.135,"endTime":2026.536,"body":"glorify God? I mean, these are all the right questions, even if"},{"speaker":"Sean McDowell","startTime":2026.536,"endTime":2029.316,"body":"it's not meant to answer all those questions. Again, it's"},{"speaker":"Sean McDowell","startTime":2029.316,"endTime":2032.675,"body":"called A Little Theology of Exercise. You're bringing it"},{"speaker":"Sean McDowell","startTime":2032.675,"endTime":2035.296,"body":"back to Scripture. You're helping us think biblically"},{"speaker":"Sean McDowell","startTime":2035.296,"endTime":2038.415,"body":"about it, and I think you're asking the right questions. So"},{"speaker":"Sean McDowell","startTime":2038.415,"endTime":2040.615,"body":"I'd encourage people to just read it and talk to somebody"},{"speaker":"Sean McDowell","startTime":2040.615,"endTime":2043.365,"body":"about it. I chatted with my wife about a few things. She was"},{"speaker":"Sean McDowell","startTime":2043.365,"endTime":2045.746,"body":"a [chuckles] college athlete, too, so we go on runs together-"},{"speaker":"Sean McDowell","startTime":2045.746,"endTime":2049.675,"body":"... Like, daily. And so I just, I found it a really"},{"speaker":"Sean McDowell","startTime":2049.675,"endTime":2053.315,"body":"helpful guide to think about these issues, and I definitely"},{"speaker":"Sean McDowell","startTime":2053.315,"endTime":2056.056,"body":"want to commend it to our listeners. So thanks for writing"},{"speaker":"Sean McDowell","startTime":2056.056,"endTime":2058.496,"body":"a great book. I hope it sells a ton of copies, and thanks for"},{"speaker":"Sean McDowell","startTime":2058.496,"endTime":2059.976,"body":"coming on."},{"speaker":"David Mathis","startTime":2059.976,"endTime":2061.496,"body":"Sean, thanks for your kind words. I really"},{"speaker":"David Mathis","startTime":2061.496,"endTime":2062.235,"body":"appreciate that."},{"speaker":"Sean McDowell","startTime":2062.846,"endTime":2065.335,"body":"This has been an episode of the podcast Think"},{"speaker":"Sean McDowell","startTime":2065.335,"endTime":2069.056,"body":"Biblically- Conversations on Faith and Culture, brought to"},{"speaker":"Sean McDowell","startTime":2069.056,"endTime":2072.135,"body":"you by Talbot School of Theology, Biola University,"},{"speaker":"Sean McDowell","startTime":2072.135,"endTime":2075.795,"body":"where we have master's programs in Old Testament, New Testament,"},{"speaker":"Sean McDowell","startTime":2075.795,"endTime":2080.416,"body":"marriage and family, apologetics, philosophy, so much"},{"speaker":"Sean McDowell","startTime":2080.416,"endTime":2085.365,"body":"more, online and in person. We would love to have you join us."},{"speaker":"Sean McDowell","startTime":2085.365,"endTime":2088.396,"body":"To submit comments or ask questions or suggest issues or"},{"speaker":"Sean McDowell","startTime":2088.396,"endTime":2091.295,"body":"guests you'd likes to include, please email us at"},{"speaker":"Sean McDowell","startTime":2091.295,"endTime":2094.996,"body":"thinkbiblically@biola.edu. If you enjoyed today's"},{"speaker":"Sean McDowell","startTime":2094.996,"endTime":2098.715,"body":"conversation, after you get a workout, take the time to give"},{"speaker":"Sean McDowell","startTime":2098.715,"endTime":2102.056,"body":"us a rating on your podcast app and consider sharing it with a"},{"speaker":"Sean McDowell","startTime":2102.056,"endTime":2102.335,"body":"friend."},{"speaker":"Scott Rae","startTime":2102.335,"endTime":2104.615,"body":"Or better yet, listen to this while you're"},{"speaker":"Scott Rae","startTime":2104.615,"endTime":2105.115,"body":"working out."},{"speaker":"Sean McDowell","startTime":2105.115,"endTime":2106.096,"body":"There you go!"},{"speaker":"Scott Rae","startTime":2106.096,"endTime":2106.115,"body":"Man, nice."},{"speaker":"Sean McDowell","startTime":2106.115,"endTime":2107.996,"body":"Best advice yet."},{"speaker":"Scott Rae","startTime":2107.996,"endTime":2108.016,"body":"[laughs]"},{"speaker":"Sean McDowell","startTime":2108.016,"endTime":2110.496,"body":"Good word, Scott. Thank you for listening,"},{"speaker":"Sean McDowell","startTime":2110.496,"endTime":2114.315,"body":"and remember to think biblically about everything, and we'll see"},{"speaker":"Sean McDowell","startTime":2114.315,"endTime":2114.436,"body":"you"},{"speaker":"Sean McDowell","startTime":2115.096,"endTime":2125.795,"body":"Friday with our weekly cultural update. [upbeat music]"}]}