Dwayne Morgan: STORY BEHIND THE MISSION.

What is it like when decades of hard work & isolation suddenly become public recognition (Order of Ontario)?

For decades, Dwayne Morgan was building a life of private sacrifice before the public recognition of his achievements.

In our latest episode, legendary spoken word poet and community leader Dwayne Morgan sits down with us to pull back the curtain on long-game creativity. From building culture in Scarborough and across Toronto to pioneering equity work, Dwayne opens up to Rita and me about what it’s really like to build a vision before it becomes popular.

Artist, Educator, and Change Makers – this conversation is for you!
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Video: https://youtu.be/oB_1BZm0lXA

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You can reach Dwayne Morgan using the following link:

https://www.dwaynemorgan.ca/

Transcript

[00:00:10] Ellington Brown: Welcome to SpeakUP! International with Rita Burke and Elton Brown! 

[00:00:16] Rita Burke: Since 1993, our featured guest, Dwayne Morgan, has been a fixture and integral part of Canada's spoken word world. He is the two-time Canadian National Poetry Slam Champion. Dwayne is also the founder of Up From The Roots and recipient of multiple awards.

[00:00:44] Rita Burke: There's so much more that I can add to this introduction, but I prefer for our guest, Dwayne Morgan, to tell his own story. Dwayne, the mic is yours. We welcome you to SpeakUP! International! 

[00:00:59] Dwayne Morgan: Well, thank you very [00:01:00] much. It is an honour to be here, uh, with the both of you this morning to, you know, talk about my, my journey and what I've been up to.

[00:01:06] Dwayne Morgan: So as you mentioned, uh, I am a spoken word artist, a writer, a performer, an event producer, and I have lived a life to this point beyond anything I had imagined for myself. And, um, you know, just try to take that inspiration and use it to inspire those who are around me and those who are coming after me. 

[00:01:28] Ellington Brown: Dwayne, it was, ​

[00:01:34] Ellington Brown: interesting to say the least, and I felt so proud when I stumbled on to your latest, uh, accomplishment, the la- latest award that you received.

[00:01:49] Ellington Brown: You received it from a very notable individual. Tell us about that, please. 

[00:01:56] Dwayne Morgan: So, um, on the 1st [00:02:00] of January, the Lieutenant Governor of Ontario announced that I was being appointed to the Order of Ontario. For anyone who is unfamiliar, that is the, the highest civilian honor that anyone living in this province can, uh, can achieve and can be be- bestowed upon you.

[00:02:18] Dwayne Morgan: So I think, um, it was, uh... it's a very humbling accolade because, you know, it recognizes a body of work that is, you know, three decades in the making. It, it, uh, acknowledges, uh, work that is significant, not just, you know, in Toronto or Scarborough where I grew up, but is significant for, you know, the entire province and my commitment to, to culture and to education and to, and to race, and to equity, and to all of these kinds of, of things.

[00:02:48] Dwayne Morgan: And I think, you know, when you're, when you're busy doing the work, you often don't know if it means anything to anybody, if anybody is watching, if anybody even cares. It's, it's actually a very [00:03:00] lonely process to do the work, you know, in community, uh, because you see a vision that you don't, uh, necessarily know if anybody else sees or understands or gets.

[00:03:12] Dwayne Morgan: So there's a lot of, you know, personal sacrifice, uh, because oftentimes you're the only one who sees the vision that you keep working towards. So when an accolade like this happens and, and someone says, "Oh, we are recognizing this vision," then it, it makes it all make sense. So, um, definitely it was a, it's, uh, a great honour to, to have bestowed upon me.

[00:03:35] Rita Burke: Well articulated. You are so correct. You're doing the work, and you're enjoying the work, and you're immersed in the work, and you don't know if people are noticing. So well said, Dwayne. Thank you so much. Now, tell our listeners what drew you into the spoken word world. 

[00:03:55] Dwayne Morgan: Well, it's a very interesting, uh, story, and it's one I share a lot of.

[00:03:58] Dwayne Morgan: You know, I do a lot of work with, [00:04:00] with young people, and I, I, I visit a lot of schools and school boards. And I am actually a, uh, shy, quiet introvert who does not like speaking to or in front of people. So, um, doing something that requires me to be in front of people was never something I envisioned for myself as a young person growing up.

[00:04:21] Dwayne Morgan: And the first time I got on stage was in my high school as part of a talent show, and at the time, all of my friends had some kind of talent, so they were all going to be in the talent show, and I didn't wanna be that one kid- Who was in the audience when all of their friends were on stage. So I had to figure out, how can I get on stage in the talent show?

[00:04:40] Dwayne Morgan: And I figured if you have no talent, the easiest thing to do is to write a poem. So I wrote a poem, and there were two women from an organization called the Tropicana Community Services Organization who just happened to be in my school at that date, at that time, who heard that poem, and they came to me and they said, "You have to keep writing.

[00:04:58] Dwayne Morgan: You have to keep telling [00:05:00] stories." And they took my phone number, and every time there was things happening in the community, they would call me and they would say, "Can you come and do that poem?" And they just kept bringing me out around the city doing this one poem. And, you know, that poem started to get on my nerves because everywhere I went, people were asking to hear this one poem.

[00:05:17] Dwayne Morgan: So I decided to write a second poem. And 31 years later, I'm now speaking to you because I kept on writing poems. Um, so it was never something that was part of my vision. It was just something that I did to be on stage with the rest of my friends. But again, you know, one of the reasons why I give so much back is because there were two women who didn't know me and they poured into me as a young person.

[00:05:42] Dwayne Morgan: They saw something in me in a time when I didn't see something in myself. So now, uh, because they poured into me, I pour into so many other people in so many different ways just to pay it forward because I understand what that level of, of support, uh, can mean. [00:06:00] 

[00:06:00] Ellington Brown: It's amazing how women play an integral part of what men do.

[00:06:08] Ellington Brown: And without women, sometimes, you know, the train can just pass us by and we don't even notice it. 

[00:06:16] Rita Burke: Mm-hmm. 

[00:06:16] Ellington Brown: You talked about doing the work and how you're m- moving forward. That, you know, you're just doing the work and moving from one gig to another. What happens when you have a moment to

[00:06:31] Ellington Brown: Do, let's say, perform 2020 vision. You know that whole thing about hindsight is, it's perfect vision? What do you see? 

[00:06:42] Dwayne Morgan: Um, well, you know, I mean, when you, when you One of the problems I think of, of looking backwards is that you can find problems that you never even knew were problems. When you were [00:07:00] going through them, this was just a situation, so now I have to figure out this situation.

[00:07:04] Dwayne Morgan: And then when you look back you can say, "Oh, that was problematic, that was this, that was that." So I don't, I, I don't tend to spend too much time looking backwards because I've already survived backwards. I've already figured out how to overcome backwards. There's always something in front of me that everything I've done backwards has prepared me to deal with what is in front of me.

[00:07:26] Dwayne Morgan: So I try as best as possible to stay, um, very much forward-looking and understanding that everything that happened in the past is preparing me for where I am today and the challenges, uh, of today. Um, the things that I've gone through in the past really help me with the, the younger people that I mentor because it allows me to tell them where things were before me, before them, so that they could see what the journey is and figure out where their place is in that journey and in that, you know, trajectory of things.

[00:07:58] Dwayne Morgan: Um, [00:08:00] so you know, I think also when you're, when you're dealing with hindsight, it has to be done with a certain level of grace and compassion because again, you didn't know certain things back then that you know now. And you could say, "Oh man, I would have done it this way or woulda," you didn't know that back then.

[00:08:17] Dwayne Morgan: So you have to be able to look at, at yourself and your journey with, with grace and compassion and be able to say, "You know what? With the resources that you had, with the knowledge that you had, with who you were then, you did the best that you could do and that has put you where you are today."

[00:08:36] Rita Burke: I hear that I hear that loud and clear. And in order to offer grace and compassion to others, one must do it for oneself first. Absolutely. Isn't that... Or one isn't authentic. So that's a, a nice thing to think about. So we talked a little bit about, in your bio, about Up from the Roots. Expand on [00:09:00] that for us, please.

[00:09:00] Rita Burke: What is Up from the Roots? 

[00:09:03] Dwayne Morgan: So Up from the Roots is a business that I started when I was still in high school. And, you know, after that first talent show, I realized how many of my friends had talent but had no platforms. They had-- There was no places for them to perform. Growing up in Scarborough, um, there are still very few art centers and art spaces and stages in Scarborough.

[00:09:23] Dwayne Morgan: Scarborough is very much, uh, underserved when it comes to the arts. At the same time, Scarborough has also produced some of Canada's greatest artists. So it's a, a, it's a very interesting thing to look at, um, how little is invested there in terms of culture. But Scarborough has, has given the world The Weeknd, the Barenaked Ladies, you know, Mike Myers, Jim Carrey.

[00:09:49] Dwayne Morgan: All, all of these people who, you know, have, have, have roots in this place where there is no opportunity for arts and creativity. So I [00:10:00] decided to start a business putting on talent shows. And, um, Up from the Roots, the name was taken from the Marcus Garvey quote, "A people without knowledge of their history is like a tree without roots," because I wanted to make sure that we were utilizing the arts to keep our history and culture alive.

[00:10:19] Dwayne Morgan: Um, and part of the, the whole Up from the Roots, uh, idea was that we weren't going to do things where we were gonna be dependent on grants, but that we were going to reinvest our money into our, uh, all of our events so that we were self-sufficient and never dependent, and nobody could say, "You can't do this, you can't do that," because we weren't asking anyone for anything.

[00:10:42] Dwayne Morgan: That being said, at that time, there were very few grants anyways, and there were few grants that dealt with people of colour, few grants that dealt with youth. There were no grants-- there were no priority neighbourhoods at, at those times. So, you know, we just had to fend for ourselves. And at the time, nobody [00:11:00] wanted young Black kids, young racialized kids in their venues.

[00:11:04] Dwayne Morgan: So, you know, I had to just find whatever space that I could get. So one of the first, you know, series that I produced was, uh, an, uh, event series called Black Love and we would do it in a Fit for Life gym. That was the only venue that w- would allow me into the, into the, their space. And at the time, you know, we would all come dressed up in, you know, dress pants and dress shoes, and the ladies wearing, you know, the skirts and dresses.

[00:11:31] Dwayne Morgan: And you'd have a band, and you would have singers and poets and dancers, and then you'd look to your left and there's somebody on a treadmill, and there's somebody on an elliptical machine. And it was like, "Hey, this is the space. This is where we are, are at. This is what we have access to, so we're gonna make the best of it."

[00:11:47] Dwayne Morgan: And I, and I often tell this story with, to, to younger people because oftentimes we want all of the circumstances to be perfect before we start. And I always say, "Just start. Start with what you have. Start [00:12:00] with where you are," because in that starting, there are lessons that you are learning that are going to help you to get to where it is that you want to be.

[00:12:07] Dwayne Morgan: But the circumstances are never all going to be right, are never all going to align, and if you're waiting for that, you, you run the risk of never starting and never beginning. So just look at what you can do where you're at and, and start.

[00:12:25] Ellington Brown: Good lesson to learn and something that we as a people probably should say in the morning when we're looking in the mirror before we move forward with our day You talked about a lot of the Hollywood stars that have come from that area where you are from, where you live. And so I wanna know what figures have you performed with that was like an oh my God [00:13:00] moment, I'm performing with this individual?

[00:13:03] Ellington Brown: Mm. 

[00:13:04] Dwayne Morgan: Yeah, I mean, definitely the, the biggest one would have to be, you know, President Barack Obama, and that was, um, you know, A, yeah, he was the President of the United States, but he was the first Black president of the United States, so it, it holds a, a different level of significance. And I think, you know, where, where my mother grew up in, in Jamaica, there's s- on Wednesdays there's still no running water.

[00:13:30] Dwayne Morgan: And you know, when I, when I look at things and put things into perspective and think, "Wow, look at this, this person who comes from this place where there's no running water even in 2024 on certain days, and here's their son standing on stage in a picture with the first Black president of the United States," how can we not say that anything is possible?

[00:13:51] Dwayne Morgan: How can we not say that if you're willing to do the work, things can't happen? Like, this is living proof of these kinds of things that [00:14:00] despite, you know, circumstances, upbringing, who your parents are, if you're willing to do the work, doors find you and doors open up for you. So I think definitely, you know, being on stage with Barack Obama, um, and getting to meet, uh, meet him is, is definitely going to be a life highlight and a career highlight.

[00:14:20] Dwayne Morgan: I've, you know, also been on s- uh, the same stage with, uh, with Alicia Keys, Russell Peters, um, and, uh, a number of, of, of other, you know, uh, you know, Canadian talents. Um, and all of it is, is just such a blessing because again, what I do as a poet, you know, there's no radio play. The, you don't get... There's no music videos.

[00:14:45] Dwayne Morgan: So the question then is, what are you doing here? How did you get here? Because you're on stage with people that everybody knows because they hear them on the radio, they see the music videos and all of these things, and then there's me. And I [00:15:00] think that just speaks to work ethic, tenacity, to, um, seeing myself beyond what other people see.

[00:15:08] Dwayne Morgan: And again, it's speaking to that whole idea of, of having a vision. So for me, I, I mean, we live in a world of titles and labels and, and as often as possible, I try to avoid those labels because then people wanna pigeonhole you into that label. So I often try to resist saying I'm a poet or I'm a spoken word artist or I'm just this thing because- It, it's very limiting.

[00:15:33] Dwayne Morgan: So I consider myself to be an entertainer, and my ability to write is the vehicle that I use to entertain people, which means that I could write a play, I could write a movie, I could write a poem. I could write anything because my vehicle is writing. So that is the, the, the way that I look at myself that allows me to imagine myself beyond what a poet might think they're supposed to be, and where a [00:16:00] poet might think, um, you know, this is what I should do and, and, and how I should approach my career.

[00:16:06] Dwayne Morgan: So, um, I try to think of myself in a much broader kind of way and, and act accordingly to create more opportunities for myself 

[00:16:17] Rita Burke: You're so correct. We live in a world, in this progressive world or society where people are inclined to put you into little boxes. This is where you belong. You're a singer, you're a dancer, this.

[00:16:30] Rita Burke: And so it's, it's to your advantage and to the world's advantage for you to see yourself larger and more capable than that. So I, I liked, I like how you responded to that question.

[00:16:42] Dwayne Morgan: Thank you.

[00:16:42] Rita Burke: In your bio, Dwayne, you said that you're an advocate for gender equity. Expand on that concept for us, please. 

[00:16:54] Dwayne Morgan: So, uh, I have a show that I produce every year called, uh, When Sisters Speak, and it's a show that I [00:17:00] do, um...

[00:17:01] Dwayne Morgan: It's now 24 years that I've put this show on, and it's a show strictly for Black women poets to get on stage and perform and to share their story. And I believe it's significant because this was before the Me Too movement;, this was before the, you know, Time's Up and all of these kinds of things where people were, you know, looking at, you know, equity and gender and space for women and all these things.

[00:17:26] Dwayne Morgan: I was already doing that. I was already creating space. I already understood that there are certain privileges that I might have as a man that I can use to create space for women and for, for other people, and I did that. I've done, you know, other shows that are not poetry shows that are specifically for, you know, female artists to, to come and perform and to be in the spotlight.

[00:17:51] Dwayne Morgan: And I go in the back and I don't perform anything, and I just, "This is your space to do this." And I think, um, [00:18:00] it's so important to, to understand the, the power and the privilege that we have. Um, sometimes we're like, "Oh, well, you know, there's racism, there's all these things." Yes, but there's other aspects of your life where you might have power and privilege, and what can you do with that to make the road easier for somebody else?

[00:18:19] Dwayne Morgan: I think tying that in to becoming a, a father to a daughter, then it's also, uh, more incentive to how do I create a world that makes her life easier, that gives her more possibilities, that allows her to see her father creating space for women? Um, and I think, you know, that is also, you know, very important.

[00:18:39] Dwayne Morgan: So, um- You know, one of the books that I came out with not too long ago was called Period: And Other Lessons from My Daughter, and it's a collection of poems that really deal with, you know, gender, but from, uh, a male point of view trying to understand the world, you know, through her eyes. I'm trying to [00:19:00] understand what she sees and what she experiences because I've never lived through that.

[00:19:04] Dwayne Morgan: But I have to, if I wanna understand it, I have to talk to her about it. I can't just assume because I'm a man I understand it. I've never lived in, in that kind of body. I've never had those kinds of experiences. So I think for, for me, when I look at who else can I advocate for, um, you know, women is a, is a big part of that.

[00:19:24] Dwayne Morgan: And again, you know, the most direct beneficiary of those efforts will be my daughter 

[00:19:31] Ellington Brown: You talk about creating spaces for individuals, women to do their thing, which is something that isn't readily available. Y- you are a performer, and I wanna know about that major event that you performed in 2012, and where was that held?

[00:19:55] Dwayne Morgan: So in 2012, um, I was [00:20:00] part of, I'm gonna assume this was the Super Bowl, uh, in Indianapolis, Indiana. And, um, you know, a lot of times people think that the Super Bowl is just the, the one day of the football game, but it's actually a, a two-week celebration leading up to the football. The football game ends the two weeks.

[00:20:20] Dwayne Morgan: Uh, so there are all of these things in the, in, in the host city, there are all of these things that happen leading up to, um, the, the football game. And in 2012, um, someone that I had met and a, a woman that I had brought to Toronto from America was like, "Oh, this is happening in my city. I wanna do, uh, a poetry event, um, that is tied to the Super Bowl and just bring a bunch of poets from different places," because again, she was just being very smart.

[00:20:50] Dwayne Morgan: There's such a spotlight on your city at that time, why not do something with your genre that's just going to give more spotlight to what you're doing? So [00:21:00] she invited, she returned the favor and invited me to come down to, to Indianapolis and to just, you know, check out the, the vibe of, of the city and the vibe of the Super Bowl and just seeing, you know, all the setup and everything that, that's going on.

[00:21:13] Dwayne Morgan: And, um, yeah, it was, it was great to just, you know, be a part of that. So again, it's one of those things. I've, I've brought so many artists to the city, and not all of them return the favor and invite me back, so I was very grateful that she was like, "Yo, I wanna get this guy from Canada to, to come," because one of the things, you know, with...

[00:21:33] Dwayne Morgan: I've discovered with, um, a lot of Americans is that they're so American that they don't even know what to do with the Canadian Black experience because it's not American. And my poems don't sound like the American poems. My accent doesn't sound like the Americans'. So they're just like, "Ah, I don't really know how to deal with that."

[00:21:53] Dwayne Morgan: It's almost like there's a monopoly on Blackness that s- begins and ends in America, [00:22:00] and outside of that, they don't even know how to deal with and articulate Blackness that is not American. So it's, uh, so I was v- I'm always very grateful when people are like, "No, I want you to come because I think people in my audience, in my city need to hear a different perspective of Blackness."

[00:22:19] Rita Burke: Very, very interesting concept about life beginning and ending somewhere else, and I'm now gonna say where. Very interesting concept. Uh, I belong to a Toastmaster club, and it is hybrid. It started off online, and we've got members that are Americans, and they find us rather curious, I must say. They find us rather curious and, but they want to learn.

[00:22:47] Rita Burke: They want to learn what goes on outside of their space. So we've got some de- some really nice people. Okay. Dwayne Morgan, on SpeakUP! International we speak to, [00:23:00] we seek to inspire, to educate, and to inform. And there's no question that your story will help us to meet those goals, and I'm so thankful for that.

[00:23:11] Rita Burke: Tell us about Dwayne Morgan at age 14. 

[00:23:16] Dwayne Morgan: Ah, so Dwayne Morgan at age 14, um, again, very, very shy, very quiet. Um, I always knew that I was smart, but I just didn't have the work ethic for school. Um, school was not something that I found a lot of fun, enjoying outside of, uh, the social aspects. Um, I didn't, I didn't write.

[00:23:42] Dwayne Morgan: I wasn't creative. Uh, I was just for, for lack of a better word, just existing. I was just kind of there waiting for something to happen, waiting to find my way. I'm not too sure where my life was, was going to go. Um, so at, you [00:24:00] know, at 14, I was very much like many of the young people that I work with today, and many of the young people that, that I meet who, you know, just haven't figured out what this life thing is and what their place and purpose is in it.

[00:24:14] Dwayne Morgan: And, you know, it would be a few more years before that light bulb went off. Um, but I was really at 14 just kind of going through the motions of what you're supposed to do, you know, at, at 14. You just get up, you go to school. Uh, I think I'm... No, I didn't have a part-time job yet. Yeah, just up and to school, back home, rinse and repeat every single day.

[00:24:39] Ellington Brown: I think that's so funny. Rinse and, and re- and repeat. It almost sounds like, uh, you were living in a washing machine. 

[00:24:47] Dwayne Morgan: Absolutely. I mean, it's, it's, it, it's the, the mundane existence at that point because you're just, you just know what every day looks like and you're just doing the same thing every single day.

[00:24:58] Ellington Brown: Well, you know, I think that washing [00:25:00] machine metaphor probably ended around 2018. Why don't you tell us about some of the notable awards that you've won between 2018 and 2022? 

[00:25:12] Dwayne Morgan: Uh, so let me see. Um, I received the... I believe it was 2022 when I received the Celebration of Cultural Life award, which was a, a big award from an organization called the Toronto Arts Foundation, and it just looked at career achievement and I, and, you know, body of work and, and, uh, it came with a, a $10,000 prize, so that was, you know, I'd never won anything like that before.

[00:25:43] Dwayne Morgan: So it was, it was, again, one of those, um, you know, really, really great, um, honours. And, um, there was, um, prior to that, uh, the Margo Bindar Award that, [00:26:00] um, that I also received f- from the same organization. Well, I was a finalist for, for the same organization. And, um, again, these are Toronto-based, uh, awards and, and accolades.

[00:26:15] Dwayne Morgan: And again, to, to receive that kind of acknowledgement from your peers is, is very important and, and very rewarding. Uh, so much so because for a lot of artists, their main focus is on themselves and their art. And for me, I've always split my focus between myself and my art and creating space for other people.

[00:26:40] Dwayne Morgan: So a lot of people have benefited from the work that I do. A lot of people have been paid because of the work that I do. Uh, a lot of people have won prize money because of the events that I do. So, uh, a huge part of my career has been giving back to people and creating space for people, um, [00:27:00] almost 50/50 between, you know, my own individual career and pursuits and creating space for other people.

[00:27:07] Dwayne Morgan: So, um, there were so many people who were so happy that I won and was recognized for those awards because they also understood, um, how they've benefited from the work that I've done. So it was also almost like a victory for them as well. So it was, it was great in that sense.

[00:27:28] Rita Burke: Dwayne, every February we celebrate Black History Month, and that's extremely significant I'm sure for you, for me, because we all have history. And as you're aware, our history goes back a long, long way. How far back can Dwayne Morgan go in his family? How far back can you go? And did that person or that person, did that person influence your life in any way?[00:28:00] 

[00:28:00] Dwayne Morgan: Uh, so I can go back to my great-grandmother, um, who, um, lived with us for a little bit of time when I was very young. Um, I can't say she influenced a lot because I was kind of too young to really be able to, you know, absorb a lot. But her, my grandmother, her, her daughter, is probably one of my biggest, um, influences.

[00:28:30] Dwayne Morgan: And my grandmother was very much, you know, into, into church, and ch- they, they lived on top of the church. And she was very much into giving and doing. Uh, you could never, um, go pop in and visit her and she not find something to feed you. Um, she was that kind of personality who no matter what she had, she could find a way to make sure that you had as well.

[00:28:58] Dwayne Morgan: And I think the [00:29:00] growing up watching how she treated people, uh, instilled a certain thing in me around giving and around service and around, um, understanding myself to be a vessel that has been filled with stuff for me to give away to other people. So I, I try as best as possible to live my life in that way, in the understanding that I am simply a vessel who is here to, to receive and then to give, um, to others.

[00:29:33] Dwayne Morgan: So, um, you know, a big part of that is I have to make sure that I priorit- prioritize the receiving, because, as they say, you can't pour from an empty cup, so I have to make sure that I am receiving so that I have things to give. And what often happens a lot of times, especially in the Black community, is that we see people who work in community, they deal with a lot of burnout, and they deal with a lot of, uh, of [00:30:00] stress and, and anxiety and a lot of mental health things because they're not prioritizing the receiving.

[00:30:06] Dwayne Morgan: So they're giving, giving, giving, and even when their tank is on empty, they're still giving, giving, giving, but that is not sustainable. It is not healthy. It is not a way to make sure that the people that you are giving to are receiving the most. So one of the things that we have to do, which some say, you know, "Oh, that's selfish," is you have to prioritize your receiving.

[00:30:26] Dwayne Morgan: Otherwise, what do you have to give? So you must make sure that you are receiving what you need so that you actually have something of value to, to give to others.

[00:30:39] Ellington Brown: And no words spoken that were truer. I, I think our mothers, at least for me, taught me that, that lesson. Growing up, we didn't have much, and it's amazing how Black women, I guess I have to refer to them because that's all I basically [00:31:00] know, how they can c- how they could take nothing and create this wonderful dinner from nothing or, y- you know, be able to take what little money they had, whether it was, uh, a few bucks or maybe it was some material that was given to them, and make do, make wonderful things.

[00:31:27] Ellington Brown: And when you were talking a- about earlier about helping people by creating space and how you had to deal with the space that was given, okay, maybe it wasn't perfect, but, you know, here we go, people. This is your space. You know, do your, do your thing And again, uh, women who have taught us that, uh, lesson, even for yourself when you were talking about women [00:32:00] had a vision.

[00:32:01] Ellington Brown: They could see something that you didn't, and then you were able to create your vision because of what they were able to give to, to you. So yes, it is really, really important that we are able to receive before we are, are able to give. And speaking of giving, so how many CDs... Okay, I'll say the word, albums have you, uh, released since Silent Night?

[00:32:34] Dwayne Morgan: Um, Silent Night was the, the last one that I, that I put out, the most recent. So Silent Night was my 10th album, and again, for me it was, you know, I did a, a spoken word Christmas album, which people hear it and they're like, "What on earth is that?" But again, I don't limit myself in terms of, you know, what people think.

[00:32:56] Dwayne Morgan: I wanna push the boundaries of imagination. I want [00:33:00] people to, to know that, wow, th- at 30 years into his career, he's still coming up with new things that nobody has heard of. He's still going into unchartered, you know, waters. And then people have listened to it and they're like, "This is actually really different and really good."

[00:33:16] Dwayne Morgan: Um, you know, so it was a, a, a great challenge to, to put that together and, and really think of what could a spoken word Christmas album be like. So Silent Night was, uh, my 10th album, and at this point I have 14 books that, um, that I have put out. And hopefully very shortly I'm gonna start on the process of some of the books that are out of print, um, bringing them back as audiobooks so that people can still access, um, you know, those, those poems.

[00:33:46] Dwayne Morgan: So hopefully by the end of the year, at least the first one will be turned into, uh, an audiobook. 

[00:33:54] Rita Burke: That is interesting. And as we said at the top of this show, [00:34:00] we haven't seen each other for a mighty long time. I knew when you had one book, but now you're telling me you've got 14 books? 

[00:34:07] Dwayne Morgan: Yeah, yeah. There's 14, 14 books in the catalog, yes.

[00:34:11] Rita Burke: I, I, I... The women that you talked about at the beginning, when you talked about them, you carved a little tattoo in my heart. That these two women heard your first poem, and they saw something in you that you didn't even know exist. Were you ever able to go back and say to them, "This is what you did for me"?

[00:34:39] Dwayne Morgan: Uh, I'm actually still connected to both of those women. Um, and there's never a time when we are in the same room and I don't tell them. Um, and sometimes I tell them to themselves, or sometimes I say it from the stage. If I'm on stage and I see that they're in the audience, I, I truly believe in, um, always honouring [00:35:00] that and always honouring them.

[00:35:03] Dwayne Morgan: And, and it's so important because they didn't have to do it. They had no idea who I was. They had no idea who I had the potential to be. They just saw a Black kid- Mm-hmm ... who said something on stage, and they said, "You should keep doing that." And they went above and beyond to create spaces for me to do it.

[00:35:23] Dwayne Morgan: They didn't just say, "You should do it." They even found the spaces and said, "All right, come here and do it." Um, and, you know, and the ch- the, the testament to myself is that I went. They called me, and I showed up, and I went, and I had no idea what that was going to mean for me, what that was going to turn in, into.

[00:35:42] Dwayne Morgan: But as a young person, I had nothing else to do, so why not show up, and why not see, and why not... You know? And I ended up, you know, the... I said they worked for an organization called the Tropicana Community Services organization. That organization ended up lending me the money t- to do my first [00:36:00] book. I ended up getting a summer job working as a, a youth counsellor for 10 years with that organization.

[00:36:07] Dwayne Morgan: So from these two women, so many things happened that got me planted in the, in the community. Planted working with young people. Um, getting comfortable being on stage speaking to people. That, you know, you, you just never know what that one word of encouragement can mean to somebody in a moment. And, you know, that is again why I, I spend so much time trying to encourage young people because of what these two women did.

[00:36:38] Ellington Brown: You are a collaborator. You

[00:36:41] Ellington Brown: Work with so many people, you work with women. I wanna know more or less what about Driftwood Studios? Can you talk to us about that? 

[00:36:55] Dwayne Morgan: So, um, Driftwood Studios is a, a studio [00:37:00] company that's, uh, run by, uh, a friend of mine. And, um, you know, years ago we were just talking about, you know, what can we do together?

[00:37:09] Dwayne Morgan: And I think, you know, so much of the things that I have done, it's just people just wanting to work, wanting to create things. So even with the, the Christmas album, one of my producers was like, "Hey, do you wanna try doing this thing?" So he made the music. He would send me the music. I wrote the poems. Then we got together, we put it all together, and it turned into something.

[00:37:32] Dwayne Morgan: So with Driftwood Studios, we decided that we wanted to, um, talk about something, and it ended up being domestic violence. So we ended up filming a 10-minute, um, movie on domestic violence that was based on a poem that I had called Three Knocks. And we did it, and then next thing we know it was in a couple film festivals, and here we were.

[00:37:58] Dwayne Morgan: Again, nobody was [00:38:00] getting paid. Everybody was volunteering. You know, we were so young at the time that we just wanted to do something. We just wanted to keep ourselves busy. We wanted to be creative and, and I've always been very honest with my limitations. So you know, you have to know when you can't do everything, and you have to know what you're not good at.

[00:38:19] Dwayne Morgan: And then you seek out those people who are good at those things and say, "Hey, can we work together on this thing?" So you know, the people at Driftwood Studios, they were great at, at film, so we ended up, um, just working together to, to make this, this film. And, uh, you know, even to this day it's still very relevant and very poignant and, and I like, you know, how we did it considering the fact that we had no money.

[00:38:42] Dwayne Morgan: And so much of my career and so much of what I've done was done with no money. It was done with trying to figure out how can you get this done with no resources because as I mentioned before, there were no grants at that time. There were no opportunities to get money to [00:39:00] do these things. You just had to, to figure it out.

[00:39:02] Dwayne Morgan: And, um, I'm so grateful because a lot of the younger artists growing up now are almost dependent on the granting system for, for support for the work that they do. They don't necessarily have that spirit of let me just go and figure it out because it's always been, oh, go apply for this grant or go apply for this.

[00:39:23] Dwayne Morgan: And then if they don't get the grant, they feel as though their idea wasn't important. And I've never... Because of how, when, when I grew up, grants don't dictate if my ideas are important or not I dictate that, and that's part of the whole going back to the idea of up from the roots and making sure what I was doing was sustainable so that I wasn't dependent on other people for my ideas to be valid or to come to fruition

[00:39:58] Rita Burke: I, I [00:40:00] am really, really fascinated by what I'm hearing about you. As I s- uh, as I've said earlier, uh, we've known each other for a long time. So then who was it that introduced you to the first place where I met you, the open mic? 

[00:40:25] Dwayne Morgan: Do you remember where, where that open mic was? 

[00:40:28] Rita Burke: Used to happen in Sinclair at a bookstore. 

[00:40:31] Dwayne Morgan: Okay. So, um, mm, mm, mm, mm, mm. I mean, so there's a number of, of people. So, um I'm, I'm also very blessed, and it's a very interesting thing because I have some elders, you know, in the, in the writing world that when they saw what I was doing, you know, they reached out to me.

[00:40:58] Dwayne Morgan: But it was, [00:41:00] it was a two-fold, very interesting kind of thing. So I'm talking about, like, people like Lillian Allen, Clifton Joseph, Devon Haughton. Um, they wanted to congratulate me and, and let me know that they acknowledged what I was doing as a, as a young person, and that was very important to me to kinda have their, you know, seal of approval.

[00:41:23] Dwayne Morgan: Um, but they were also very amazed and curious at where I was taking things. Uh, because, you know, for most of them, they would be what we called, you know, dub poets, and coming from the Caribbean, they had a certain kind of style. And then there was me, born here, and my style was more synonymous with maybe hip hop and, and that kind of, that energy.

[00:41:47] Dwayne Morgan: So it was a, a very symbiotic relationship because they had a wealth of knowledge, uh, that I was tapping into, and I had a wealth of knowledge based on what I was doing that they wanted to [00:42:00] tap into. And it, it created this, uh, this synergy of, of work and respect, um, that we would do, you know, with each other.

[00:42:08] Dwayne Morgan: And at the time there was a, a dub poetry festival and, and, and different things. Uh, and I know that they had a hub on, on St. Clair, uh, for, for a time as well. So, um, it was great. And, and even going back to the, the, the Christmas album, I put out a video for one of the songs on the Christmas album, and Clifton Joseph saw it and he called up people and tracked down my phone number and he called me, like, late one night.

[00:42:36] Dwayne Morgan: I'm like, "Who's calling my phone at this hour?" And I answered, and it was Clifton, and he was just, like, elated by this video. He thought the video was the funniest, greatest thing that you could do, you know, with spoken word. And he felt it necessary to track me down to make sure that I- Wow ... heard him tell me that he [00:43:00] loved w- that video and, and what I'm doing, you know, with the art and with spoken word and that sort of thing.

[00:43:05] Dwayne Morgan: So I think, you know- Starting so young, having elders that checked for you, and now, you know, being older myself and those elders are still there and they still check for you and they're, they're still, you know, proud of you and you're often... You don't see them as much anymore because they're in, you know, different worlds and that sort of thing.

[00:43:26] Dwayne Morgan: But you know that that, that love that was created many years ago still exists and still has been cultivated. And I have been blessed by, you know, so many elders, you know, Ms. Burke yourself included, who, you know, saw me as a young person and just, just wanted to help because they saw that I was trying to do something.

[00:43:48] Dwayne Morgan: They saw that, "Oh, this guy's a, a mover and a shaker kind of person. He's... This guy's gonna get things done." So people went, you know, above and beyond to, to, to help facilitate, you know, some of [00:44:00] those things. And, you know, so I have so many, I call them, you know, my mothers. Whether it's Joan Pierre, whether it's the Honourable Jean Augustine, whether it's, um, uh, Dr.

[00:44:11] Dwayne Morgan: Rita Cox. Like, um, you know, people who have just been in the community who every time they see me, this is like, "Oh, this is my other son." And, and I think that is, it's such a, a beautiful thing for me to be embraced by all of these elders in the, in the community, um, because that's always the greatest badge of honor if the elders are proud of you.

[00:44:35] Rita Burke: We've interviewed, um, Lillian Allen for SpeakUP! international. 

[00:44:39] Dwayne Morgan: Oh, awesome! 

[00:44:42] Ellington Brown: A famous woman, very kind individual. That was a memorable moment for SpeakUP! International. 

[00:44:51] Dwayne Morgan: Mm-hmm. 

[00:44:52] Ellington Brown: Speaking of which, we have been on every continent in one way, shape, or form where we've been [00:45:00] able to reach out and touch the lives of, uh, thousands of individuals.

[00:45:04] Ellington Brown: Mm-hmm. And with that comes great responsibility. For yourself, you've been to many countries and r- regions due to your work. Can you tell us about some of the regions, countries that you've been to, and the one that maybe was an eye-opener for you? 

[00:45:26] Dwayne Morgan: Um, so yeah, so I've been, you know, across the entire Caribbean.

[00:45:29] Dwayne Morgan: I've been almost most the countries, you know, in, in, uh, in Europe. Uh, I've been to Turkey. I've been to, to Ghana, Uganda, South Africa. Um, I think the, the first time I was invited overseas, it was to, uh, perform in Germany, and that was probably the most eye-opening, um, of my travel experiences probably because it was the first one, but also because it didn't go particularly [00:46:00] well.

[00:46:00] Dwayne Morgan: And it was one of the first performances that I can recall doing that didn't go well because up until that point, and even since, I've just been used to them going very well. And when I, going back to the thing about the hindsight, when I, when I tried to question why it didn't go well, I realized that so many of my poems were about Scarborough and about Toronto, that being in Germany, nobody cared.

[00:46:23] Dwayne Morgan: Nobody knew what that was. Nobody knew what I was talking about. That's right. So in that moment- The light bulb went off and I said, "Oh, I have to make sure that I'm creating work that is more global in its, in its, in the f- in its sphere so that no matter where I go the work is relevant." And that was one of the greatest, uh, learning experiences that I've had from traveling is understanding that your body of work as an artist must be able to transcend language and space and culture and all of these [00:47:00] kinds of things.

[00:47:01] Dwayne Morgan: So since then I've been into en- environments where the audience didn't even speak English, and I'm performing. And then the other part of that is then you, you learn that the words are only part of the understanding. It was amazing to do these performances and have people come up and try to talk to me afterwards about what they got from a performance where they didn't understand the words, but they understood the feeling.

[00:47:29] Dwayne Morgan: They understood the vibe. They understood the body language. They understood all of the other ways that I was communicating while on that stage. So a lot of my travels have given me things that I wouldn't have gotten elsewhere. I wouldn't have really understood how to utilize space when I'm on a stage because, again, most times as a poet it's just you and a microphone and a big space, right?

[00:47:54] Dwayne Morgan: But I had to learn that communication and the performance isn't always just the words. [00:48:00] How do the people who don't speak the language understand it? And then that informs, okay, I gotta really put some other elements into my presentation, especially when I'm gonna be traveling to places where English isn't the first language or it isn't the language at all.

[00:48:17] Dwayne Morgan: Um, so that first trip to Germany and it not going well was one of the greatest things to ever happen. 

[00:48:24] Rita Burke: Sounds to me like you're talking about the adage, know your audience. Know your audience. 

[00:48:31] Ellington Brown: Absolutely. Absolutely. 

[00:48:33] Rita Burke: So Dwayne, let's suppose you were given the opportunity to address a graduating class of males, Black males.

[00:48:48] Rita Burke: Offer us three gems that you would share with them during your presentation. 

[00:48:57] Dwayne Morgan: Wow, that's a, that's a great question. So I mean, [00:49:00] if I was talking specifically to, um, Black males, um- I think the first thing that I would say is In order to be a powerful person, it begins with responsibility. It begins with taking responsibility for yourself and for your choices and for the outcomes of those choices.

[00:49:29] Dwayne Morgan: So, um, you know, oftentimes people will say things like, "Well, I ne- I didn't have a dad," or, "I didn't have a positive role model," which is valid and it is fair and there's lots of research in terms of, you know, the outcomes of those young people. But at the same time, when something goes wrong with my phone, I go on Google and I look for the answer.

[00:49:55] Dwayne Morgan: So can we still utilize that as an excuse? [00:50:00] Because I could watch Doc- uh, uh, Uncle Phil on The Fresh Prince and I could see an example of fatherhood. You know, when I grew up, it was The Cosby Show. I could see an example of fatherhood. So it's not just, "I didn't have it, so X, Y, and Z." That's an excuse because if you wanna see an example, there are examples, and you can look for the examples.

[00:50:25] Dwayne Morgan: So the first thing I would say is you have to take responsibility. The second thing I would say is that your life matters, and it matters beyond, um, sports and entertainment. It matters beyond stereotypes and fetishes. Your very existence matters. When I go into schools and I'm the guest speaker and I'm going to speak, I understand that my presence matters before I've even said a word.

[00:50:57] Dwayne Morgan: Because when the kids come in and they're [00:51:00] like, "Oh, there's a Black guy who's gonna be at the front who's gonna be talking," even before I've said a word, that is significant. My presence matters. So understanding that you matter simply for existing is very important. And then you have to ask yourself, "Well, and then what am I going to do with that?

[00:51:18] Dwayne Morgan: How am I going to utilize that?" Um, and then the last thing that I would say is that you're allowed and supposed to be happy. You're supposed to experience joy. You're supposed to experience laughter. Life isn't just about gloom and doom. "Oh, I grew up here. Oh, I don't have money. Oh, this, that, that." Find the joy in every single day and in every experience.

[00:51:48] Dwayne Morgan: We kinda touched on it, you know, before, but throughout my travels for business or pleasure, some of the happiest people I've met are the people who have nothing. Some of the most generous [00:52:00] people I've met are the people we would say they have nothing. They would offer you something, and you wanna, you wanna turn it down because you know that they don't have it to give.

[00:52:08] Dwayne Morgan: But that is insulting to them because they want to give it to you because- That is just part of their joy. It would make them happy for you to accept this thing from them. But then we come here and we have all of this stuff around us. We have all the technology, all the buildings, all of these things, and we struggle to find joy.

[00:52:30] Dwayne Morgan: We struggle to find happiness. We struggle to find laughter, and I think that is part of our birthright. We are supposed to enjoy every single day, no matter what it is we are going through. Of course, we're human. There's going to be death and grief and all of these things. That's part of the experience.

[00:52:47] Dwayne Morgan: But even in the experience, are we able to find the joy and, and the happiness that we are supposed to have? So I think those would be the three things that I would wanna speak about [00:53:00] 

[00:53:01] Ellington Brown: Dwayne Morgan, you have been a artist way before you were introduced to the world back in 1993, which wasn't... Wow, it wasn't that long ago.

[00:53:15] Ellington Brown: Wasn't that really that long ago when you look at it, because I'm assuming that in, in, in anyone's life, you look at 1993 and all of a sudden it's 2024, and you're like, "Wow," you know, " where has the time gone?" 

[00:53:29] Rita Burke: Mm-hmm. 

[00:53:31] Ellington Brown: You have talked about your awards that you've won since the twen- ni- uh, twen- 2018 twen- to 2022.

[00:53:42] Ellington Brown: We talked about the very prestigious award that you've just, uh, won, which was, uh, ama- absolutely amazing. And when I read the announcement on LinkedIn, the only thing I could do start, [00:54:00] straight away was go, "Wow, this is, you know, a Black man p- p- picked this up. This is wonderful." And your collaboration has allowed you to create spaces for individuals, women, to be able to perform, to be able to show their talents, uh, and to give them a voice.

[00:54:23] Ellington Brown: You've been to many countries, and you've learned a lot from that, and I think exposure is key in whatever you decide to do, and to allow yourself to fail. Germany, you said, was not a was not actually planned. Mm-hmm. But you did learn a lot from that, and I think this is something that our audience, uh, will pick up on.

[00:54:52] Ellington Brown: This is definitely something that I want them to realize and recognize, that [00:55:00] the emphasis on quality is only through the hard work that you've done over the years, and I am looking forward to finding out or hearing what you are doing five years from now, 10 years from now. Because the spoken word, I think, is very, very important for individuals to receive.

[00:55:31] Ellington Brown: I, I find that listening to spoken word allows me to remember. You may hear music, and it's great, but I may not remember the lyrics, but in spoken word, it's a, it's a different thing. Mm-hmm. There's... It's something that you can attach yourself to and enjoy. So I wanna thank you for this morning, uh, being with us, on a Saturday, no less, which is [00:56:00] admirable in itself, and, uh, we're looking forward to having you again in, in the future if you desire.

[00:56:09] Dwayne Morgan: Yeah, anytime. 

[00:56:12] Rita Burke: So I am certainly impressed, and I'll tell you what will s- remain with me for as long as I remember. The fact that you talked about symbiotic relationships, because that's what makes a community grow. In some, uh, in some ways, I guess you can talk about it as the village that we like to talk about.

[00:56:40] Rita Burke: In some ways you could see it as a metaphor of my standing on your shoulders and people standing on my shoulders, so it's so critical to our community. And even though we probably haven't conceptualized it, that's exactly what we do as a community. Mm-hmm. So then in closing [00:57:00] Would you like to take us out with one of your poems, Mr.

[00:57:04] Rita Burke: Dwayne Morgan, please? 

[00:57:06] Dwayne Morgan: For sure. So, um, yeah, this one just kind of touches on... It was inspired by my daughter, and it touches on, you know, some of the things that we're talking about around gender and that sort of thing, so, um. "When my daughter told me that she was being teased by one of the boys in her class, I couldn't help but laugh knowing that he had picked the wrong one, a girl with a razor-sharp tongue who would sharpen her edges on a fragile ego just for fun if provoked.

[00:57:35] Dwayne Morgan: I let her know the next time he loses his mind, simply tell him you're only doing that because you like me, but say it when he's with his friends. Watch him shrivel up like the Wicked Witch of the West because the worst thing for a boy is to be caught having emotions that aren't anger or aggression, to be forced to be held accountable for his actions and intentions.

[00:57:52] Dwayne Morgan: And who's teaching the boys that no means no? Not maybe. Not maybe she didn't mean it. Not maybe I should try again later. Until such [00:58:00] time that boys no longer feel a sense of entitlement simply because of how they were born, I will continue to be a thorn in their sides, a parenting vigilante okay with Me Too as a movement, but not wanting it to be a part of another generation's reality.

[00:58:13] Dwayne Morgan: So I've given her permission to snap at any boy who thinks that snapping bra straps is cute, to clap back at anyone who gets confused thinking they can touch without permission or invitation. And who's teaching the boys that their unsolicited opinions are okay? Until such time that things change, I will continue to teach her to be careful, know where the exits are, yell fire instead of rape, watch your drinks, travel in groups.

[00:58:35] Dwayne Morgan: Until such time that, "Boys will be boys," ceases to be used as an excuse freeing them from taking responsibility, I will question who do these boys become when they are taught that it is taboo to love, to like, to feel. Every three days across this land, a woman or a girl is killed, 90% of the times at the hands of men.

[00:58:55] Dwayne Morgan: Who's raising the boys who grow up to be them? Who's teaching the boys that rejection is just [00:59:00] another part of life? Until such time that missing a shot with a girl is treated with the same nonchalance as missing a shot in a game, I will continue to teach her that pain doesn't mean I like you, and to be wary of predators cloaked in affection because there are some who will seek to build themselves up using the broken pieces of your self-esteem, pieces broken by their very own hands.

[00:59:20] Dwayne Morgan: Who's teaching the boys not to use their words, to have expectations for the bodies of others that they would never accept for their own, to act as though they are owed simply because they were born male with no other virtues? Have you ever questioned who's teaching the boys? Yeah, I get it. Me too. Thank you.

[00:59:41] Rita Burke: Thank you, Dwayne Morgan, for enriching SpeakUP! International with your story, with your presence, and with your poem 

[00:59:50] Dwayne Morgan: My pleasure. Thank you for having me!

[00:59:54] Ellington Brown: Thank you for tuning in to [01:00:00] SpeakUP! International. If you wish to contact our guest, Duane Morgan, please be prepared to submit your name, your email address, and the reason why you wish to contact Mr. Morgan on linkedin.com. Mr. Morgan has other social media accounts you can use to connect to him that will be listed in the description section on Spotify and other social media platforms.

[01:00:28] Ellington Brown: Your voice has the power to inspire, inform, and ignite change. We'd love to hear your story. We invite you to connect with us by sending a message that includes your name, your company or organization name, the valuable service you offer your community, and your email address to info@speakuppodcast.ca.

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