The Father Factor Podcast
The Father Factor Podcast
with Byron Ricks, Joshua Warmbrodt, and Brandon Ricks
What happens when fatherhood leaves a void—or when it shows up with strength, wisdom, and love?
Join Byron Ricks, author of Searching for Dad: The Nine Side Effects of Growing Up Fatherless and How to Overcome Them, alongside co-hosts Joshua Warmbrodt and Brandon Ricks, for honest, transformative conversations about fatherhood, identity, healing, and legacy.
Whether you’re navigating life without a father, striving to become the father you never had, or raising a child impacted by fatherlessness—this podcast is for you.
With real stories, research-backed insight, and heartfelt wisdom, The Father Factor Podcast creates space for growth, understanding, and redemption. Because no matter where you start, healing is possible—and legacy can be rewritten.
The Father Factor Podcast
The Hidden Cost of Growing Up Without a Father... A Void No One Talks About
In this powerful episode of The Father Factor Podcast, Byron Ricks, Josh, and guest co-host Brandon unpack the emotional, spiritual, and generational impact of growing up fatherless. From personal stories of loss and reconnection to deep conversations around forgiveness, identity, lineage, and faith, this episode explores what the “void” really is—and how it silently shapes our choices, behaviors, and self-worth.
Whether your father was absent, emotionally distant, or missing entirely, this raw discussion sheds light on how to begin healing and filling that void—not with temporary fixes like addiction or affirmation, but with purpose, forgiveness, and intentional relationships.
#father #fatherlessness #healing #forgiveness #generationaltrauma #faithandfatherhood #fatherfactorpodcast #emotionalhealing #manhood
fatherlessness in America, healing father wounds, why forgiveness matters, father and son identity crisis, generational trauma healing, how to forgive your father, Christian fatherhood, single mom parenting effects, impact of absent fathers, Byron Ricks Father Factor
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When I was growing up and a person cousin pulled me aside, he just snatched me in my collar, you know, he just snatched me up. It's like get off behind your mother's coattail. He told me I hadn't seen him in about a year or so, so I didn't really recognize him. So he said Byron, I'm your daddy boy. And when he said that I recognized his voice and then I ran to him and he came to me and he picked me up and he hugged me and I was in his chest and I could smell his cologne and I felt the safest and securest I've ever felt in my life. One of the things I learned again is I had to forgive my father right, in order to get rid of that anger. I had to forgive my father In order to fill that void. I had to what?
Speaker 2:Forgive my father. This is what bothers me about American culture. To be quite honest, we are extremely nonchalant and lackadaisical about procreation and reproduction.
Speaker 1:Hello and welcome to the Father Factor podcast. I'm your host, byron Ricks, and today my co-host is Josh and my guest co-host is Brandon. I say guest co-host because we may replace him. I'm replaceable, apparently.
Speaker 2:No, I replace him, I'm replaceable, apparently.
Speaker 1:No, I'm kidding, I'm kidding Guys, how are you guys doing today?
Speaker 2:Josh, how are you doing, man?
Speaker 3:Oh man, you know it's been a challenging time, but I'm doing good Challenging time.
Speaker 2:What's going on?
Speaker 3:You know school's wrapping up for the kids. I had to go get my daughter from college. She just got a job too, and so you know, it's just been a lot of just unexpected ripping and running. A lot of baseball man is going along because of all the rain. You know, out here we've been getting all that rain. So, man, all the reschedules. Surprise, it's a Monday at 8 pm.
Speaker 2:You got a baseball game, father stuff You've been doing father stuff, yeah, father stuff, doing my thing.
Speaker 1:Well, guys, we're going to have a good show today. I've gotten some feedback and we started this podcast a couple years ago, because I think this is our third season, if I remember correctly. It's based on a book that I wrote called Searching for Dad Nine Side Effects of Growing Up Fatherless and how to Overcome them. And what I've learned is those side effects. There are nine, it could be 10, it could be 15, but my research, I came up with nine. And one of those side effects is the void. The void that fathers I'm sorry, the void that sons feel. And now I've learned that even daughters feel the same way. They feel that same void when the father is not in the home, when they're fatherless. In fact, the question was asked to me earlier well, what is fatherless? How about if the father comes on a weekend or they see them, see them a couple of times a week? And Brandon and I had a different definition or belief. Is that right, brandon? As what fatherlessness is?
Speaker 1:And from my perspective, fatherlessness is when the father is not in the kid's life at all, and I experienced that growing up. I didn't grow up with my father, I grew up with a single mom welfare Alaska kid, west side of Chicago and I remember the first time I actually felt the void, or I could identify it, should I say? I went to Catholic schools and they had Father's Sunday and I didn't have a father. But I went to school with some twins, daryl and Darwin, and they had a dad at home and had sisters and siblings and their father said Byron can go with us. And so I went to my first Bulls game and we sit way up in the bleachers, man way up. All I could see was the logo of the Bull.
Speaker 3:That was him, you know I want a hot dog.
Speaker 1:Remember that joke that you know I want a hot dog. Remember that joke that the comedian said I want a hot dog and he called the hot dog guy and the guy said he thought he was bringing the hot dog up there and the guy said no, you got to come down here. I was sitting in those seats, you know, and the players looked like ants running around down there. But I remember sitting there and their father brought hot dogs and popcorn for us and everything he brought them, he brought me.
Speaker 1:I was sitting there, though, and I was looking over, and one of the twins was sitting in his lap, and then the other twin was trying to push him out of his lap, and he was trying to sit in his lap, and they were playing with the popcorn and they was just having fun with their dad.
Speaker 2:And even though I was there, I wasn't there, you know I wasn't there.
Speaker 1:And I remembered when I got home that day and I went to bed and I was looking up at the ceiling and that was the first time I was able to identify the void in my life, what was really missing. I knew it in the back of my mind as a kid. I just couldn't pinpoint it until I saw them interact with their father yeah. And so what I've learned is that children, boys and girls, the girl without their fathers, they experience this void. They just can't identify it sometimes and what they do is try to fill that void. Yeah, and how do they try to fill that void? With sex, with drugs, with sports, spending, with spending, yeah, all these other things that make you feel a certain way in a moment. But what happens is once you get back home, you get in that bed, you look at the ceiling. Your dad is not in your life, hasn't interacted with you, and you know the clothes in the closet are on the floor, your friends are gone, you know the drugs are worn off, and now what are you left with?
Speaker 3:It makes me think of a Tupac song called Papa's Song. Okay, I won't go into all of it, but there's a part. He said something along the line I'd pray to a starry night. Lord, please send me pops before puberty. The things I would do to see peaceful family unity. Right, because he said it started off with I used to play catch by myself outside. What a sorry sight. But then he went to like what you're talking about, laying in bed at night. Right, he's praying Lord, send me a pot before puberty you know what I should get paid on that.
Speaker 1:I should get paid on that, yeah, but let's identify what the void is. Let's identify that. What is the void? It's more than just an absence. It's an emptiness, a hollowness that grows within a father's when a father's presence is missing, Whether it be physically, emotionally or spiritually. So that suggests that a father can actually what Be in the home, but yet not connected with you spiritually, emotionally or physically. So it's more than just having that father there. That father has to also be able to connect.
Speaker 3:So the quality of the connection, the quality of the time versus the quantity of the time? Yes, yeah of the connection, the quality of the time versus the quantity of the time.
Speaker 2:Yes, yeah, that's why I think, for me, the definition of fatherlessness is not just about the physical absence, it's also about the as you stated here emotional, mental and spiritual absence. You can have a father who is physically present, and I've seen a lot of individuals that have grown up in this same type of situation, where their their father is quote unquote there. Right, they know where their father is, but he's not really there, and they still experience the same issues that you're describing here in the void.
Speaker 1:Yes, yeah, I know I looked for, I look for, I look to fill that void with other men, males, and I was always let down and disappointed because I had unrealistic expectations about how that man, or even that friend, he could be my age, because I was still looking for that, that male, yeah, to be in my life like a brother, father, brother, father, male, yeah, and and I was looking to feel it that way and I would always get let down because either that person would do something that, uh, would surprise me, or they didn't want to be my friend anymore. Or even when my mother, my mother, didn't date a lot.
Speaker 1:You know I give her credit for that and I used to get frustrated with her for that. By the way, I was like, well, I need a boyfriend.
Speaker 3:We need a dad around here.
Speaker 2:I need a dad.
Speaker 1:You know, but my mother was just adamant about not having men around me because she was afraid of how they might treat me. She said I'm not going to have someone around you that won't respect you, won't protect you, They'll get angry with you because of something I did or said. So she just chose not to date. So I didn't have a lot of males around me in that way. I grew up with a host of females to to our friend, point Arize is in the building.
Speaker 2:He's in the building behind the cameras. You can't, you can't see our boy Arize. You know he's holding it down for us.
Speaker 1:But I can relate to Arize when you said, when he said he has a relative that's growing up with women only and he can begin to see behaviors. Yeah, you know, and I can remember when I was growing up and a person cousin pulled me aside once. He just snatched me in my collar, you know, he just snatched me up. It's like get off behind your mother's coattail, he told me.
Speaker 3:Yeah.
Speaker 1:And I was like, oh, that was the best thing that happened to me. You know, he toughened me up. It's like get out behind your mother's coattail. He told me, yeah and and I was like, oh, that was the best thing that happened to me. You know, he toughened me up a little bit, I wasn't as as tough, but also would have helped me become a tough. And I'm not saying I'm not saying being tough, being a man, being a male, toughness is about that but I am saying we have to learn to be tough. Right, does that make sense?
Speaker 2:yeah, there's a level of strength that we have to exude, you know, in in life as as men, and unfortunately women are not wired that way. They're wired to nurture. You know, and they look a lot of times as a young boy's rambunctions, nature, as a negative, even in school, how I think academia is really geared and wired towards young girls. Young boys that can't sit still are viewed as bad kids. They can't focus. Kids that want to run around, they want to tussle, they want to do these things, and these things are not negative. But the school environment is sit still, look straight, don't talk, don't speak, and little girls thrive in that environment. Little boys have a hard time with that because they want to explore and experience the world at a young age, as adolescents, and so I think it's the same thing in the dynamics when you have a young boy that's growing up around only women, the women are making whether they are doing it intentionally or not, they're making him conform to what makes them feel comfortable.
Speaker 1:Not deliberately making him, but causing him. Yeah, well, that's why I said whether intentionally or unintentionally, it causes him to do that.
Speaker 2:Yeah, and what would you say then, byron, for today's society? That I, again in the American context, where I think that there's a lot of belief that is circulating around that a woman can raise a young boy without the necessity of a father involved, without the necessity of a father involved, what would you say to those individuals that are purporting that type of worldview and they think that they're just fine and their young men have grown up without a father and everything is everything is good, would you? What would you say to them about the void?
Speaker 1:well, as our guest Jeff once said, the CEO we had on, a woman cannot make a man. So I think that, as Arize said earlier, a woman can put her son in a situation where he has access and exposure to men, where he has access and exposure to men, whether it be on a team or in an environment where there are men, and that male then begins to adapt male behaviors. But if it takes two people to create the kid, it takes two people to create the kid for a reason. Now, today, I know that you can take a woman's egg and you can take the sperm and do all that. You don't need the man and the woman to do all that, but yet and still, you still need the DNA of both of them.
Speaker 3:So I mean, I say like this to create that male you can.
Speaker 3:I can choose to drink and drive, right, and I may get home, ok, but I may not. But it doesn't mean it's a good idea. Like, choosing just because I can doesn't mean you should. If you look at the statistics, you're automatically putting your child at a disadvantage for everything. If you, as a woman, are choosing that, I get certain partners, this, that, whatever. But there comes a level of intentionality where, if you are raising a boy, you want to make sure that you put some quality men around them, and that could be sports. There's so many different outlets for that. But there's a level of intentionality, right, and it's not a I don't need a man, they don't need this, we do. But just because you survive something doesn't mean that you're going to thrive in life. There's's, yeah, I survived, but you know at what cost, right?
Speaker 1:well, you know, I've heard women say I don't need a man, I don't need a husband, he doesn't need a father. I'm his mother, I'm his father. Right, you know, I can raise him by myself. And yeah, you can, and a lot of women do a great job doing that happy father's day to all those real moms out there I I tell the story of when my father came to Chicago.
Speaker 1:I was about five years old and he came to Chicago and I was outside playing and he called me. He said Byron, and I looked at him and he was about Josh's complexion, by the way. So I didn't really. I thought he was insurance. He had a high yellow. I thought he was insurance, he had a high yellow. I thought he was an insurance man or something.
Speaker 1:You know who is this guy calling me? Because I hadn't seen him, because my mother took me from him, if you will, and left the state that we lived in, and so I hadn't seen him in about a year or so. So I didn't really recognize him. So he said Byron, I'm your daddy boy. And then I ran to him and he came to me and he picked me up and he hugged me and I was, I was in his chest and I could smell his cologne and I felt the safest and securest I've ever felt in my life.
Speaker 1:And by that time my mother came to the window we lived in a courtway building on the first floor and she said put him down. And I grabbed his neck stronger and held on and he was trying to put me down and I was holding on to him because I had never felt like that. I was safe. I felt safe and she was telling him to put him down and he was telling me son, I got to put you down, I got to put you down. And he put me down and she called me into the house and I went in the house and I rushed there because're going to be okay. As my father began to walk away, I felt like I'm not safe, I'm not going to be okay.
Speaker 1:So, even though the woman may think she doesn't need the man to raise the kid, the kid needs the man in his life. The same is true for a mother. I have a niece who doesn't have a mother. Yep, you know, she has a heart that does a great life Right. The same is true for a mother. I have a niece who doesn't have a mother. Yep, you know she has a heart that does a great job, yep.
Speaker 1:But yet when I have intimate conversations with her, she will tell me I miss my mom. Mm-hmm Want to get to the void.
Speaker 3:But that's the thing, right, because my daughter, her biological mom, hasn't really been in her life, right, biological mom hasn't really been in her life, right, my wife is doing a great job, right, but there's still a void from that sense of belong and where is this from? So it's whether it's it's not just because imagine if men was on here saying I don't need no woman, I can take care of this kid and all that see you brought up, go ahead.
Speaker 1:But you brought up another type of void though, yeah, because in and I'm not saying it's not valid and I want you to finish that, but I want to. I want to bring your attention to this, in that you, I have contended that a fatherless child follows his boy initially, but a fatherless child, I've contended that they have this void and one way to fill that void is to have a male in their lives. But now what you're saying to me is your daughter has a biological mom who's done in her life, but your wife is in her life. Yes, she still has a void. She contradicts what I'm saying.
Speaker 3:Well, let me say like this she the void. Let's say that there's. My wife fills the void in a lot of ways, but there's still a piece of that biological connection.
Speaker 1:I mean your daughter fills the void. No, I'm saying my wife fills that void for my daughter. She fills it not feels it. Okay feels, yeah, feels the void.
Speaker 3:F-I-L-L-S. Yeah, yeah, you know what I'm saying. So my wife is feeling that she calls her mommy, that's where she gets her nurturing from, and all that. But there is still this curiosity and this desire of wanting to be wanted by your mom. So you can fill a void and she shows all the fruits and all that, but there's still that desire. J-love, who does our song his step-pops was a great father.
Speaker 3:He speaks highly of his father, I mean very highly of him, but there is still that little boy in him that wonders why am I not good enough for my father?
Speaker 1:Are we saying, then, that to have that step-parent in the life or that mentor or that surrogate in the life, it may not completely fill the void, but it does prohibit that kid or lessens the chances of that kid filling the void with other things that are not good for him or her?
Speaker 3:If you have the right person in that position, right. You got right people in there, I believe. But if you talk about the void at 100 percent, right. So imagine nobody's there, yeah, you mom might be able to handle a tithe of that void by herself, right. And then if you put a step parent or uncle or whoever in place, they might, let's say, they can fill 80 or 90 percent of that void, but there's still going to be something remaining. There's still some curiosity. So I'm not saying that, I'm saying that the outcome with having that support, having that surrogate, having that person there, you can't argue with it. It's incredible. But there is still something there where there's a curiosity, a longing.
Speaker 1:Well, you hear that from kids that are adopted as well and have great parents.
Speaker 3:Great parents and the parents are offended. Why would you want to look? I'm curious because you said something earlier about boys and school and all that. Boys want to explore. They're curious in a different way than girls are curious too, in a different way. Girls will talk and they can group up we're exploring, we're looking, group up, we're exploring, we're looking for stuff, we're digging. It's just a difference in the curiosity and when you try to group it all into one space and say all of you conform to this thinking, it's going to be hard.
Speaker 2:So I feel that that kind of stuck out to me and from your teaching is you described in the book how, as a boy gets older and they surpass the point of the pubescent age, and you talked about this, how, when you were looking in the mirror, yeah, I was getting ready to say that, right, you're, you were looking for your father, right, right, you were looking for features that resemble your father. You weren't looking for the mirror. Yeah, I was getting ready to say that, right, you were looking for your father, right, right, you were looking for features that resemble your father, you weren't looking for your mother. And that stuck out to me and I think that is true. I think that even, for example, you know, my son and I will be out in certain places and it's, it's almost kind of annoying at times because people will say, oh, he looks just like you and it's like, well, no, he doesn't, he's got his own. Look, right, right, are there features that are similar? Absolutely?
Speaker 2:But people take a pride in identifying them like their father. It is a progression of the line and lineage, right, and for thousands of years of human history we have taken pride in our seed, in our progeny. Somewhere we've allowed our progeny to be unimportant, to be not as significant. And so a father removes himself from the picture, not recognizing that your child, your son, is an iteration. He is, he is a extension of your line and lineage. Iteration, he is an extension of your line and lineage and the resemblance that the son is looking for, he's looking for those features on his father to be able to find points of relation.
Speaker 2:And if you don't have that right, and for you it's like I didn't you heard his voice and you recognized him, but you hadn't seen his face right. And that's the reason why I think that presence is so important, because it's what you're getting from the, from the, from your father. Practicing presence, as they say, in your life is more than just a physical connection. It is the imparting of ideas and beliefs in ways of doing things that you're not getting. Hence the reason why there's that void because you're trying to fill other things. Ok, well, do I get it from a cousin? Do I get it from an uncle? Is my mom trying to fill that with ideas? Right? But at the end of the day, what you need is your father's voice in your life to have an understanding of who you are as a person.
Speaker 3:It ultimately helps to solidify your identity, because you said looking in the mirror, right, because I know I remember doing that. I go, man, you know what part of me looks like him. She says I look like him. But there is another part that I realized too, because you know I was that kid that got in trouble all the time, so much so that you know I'd take those state tests and depending on which one you know, I'd ace them and then, like there's no Curious, I had more. What was it?
Speaker 3:Constantly out of a seat, that was one of the big ones out of a seat, but I wasn't dumb, and so I used to question like man, what's wrong with me? Did I get this from my dad? Is this how he is like not just physical, but behavioral patterns, right? So there's a curiosity. And if we have mothers that are also saying you act like your dad, you this like your dad, and they have a poor look out on their father, the outlook on their father is poor, then what is that saying to the kid? I'm not good like my father's not good, right? So if your daddy ain't this like, we know what I'm saying your daddy ain't, but I act like him and I look like him according to you. So what are you saying about me, right, right? So are you helping the void? Are you being intentional about not filling the void with garbage, or are you being intentional about filling it with substance and love and lessons?
Speaker 1:Which leads me to my next point, because as I grow older, I realized, especially after I wrote the book, the book was lethargic for me, it was cathartic for me, except.
Speaker 3:I'm on speech.
Speaker 1:See cathartic.
Speaker 2:See, I've been around you too long You've been around me too long Lethargic. It's like wait a minute, it made you lethargic it made you tired.
Speaker 3:I bet there's a lot of research. I've been around.
Speaker 1:Josh, too long, it's too long I've got to be around some more educated people Pronouncing words. But it was freeing. After I wrote the book, because I lost a lot of my anger. You know, one of the side effects I talk about is the silent anger. I lost a lot of my anger because I was able to get it out in the book and do the research, because it took me five years to write the book.
Speaker 1:Yeah, you know, I had to do five years of research because I realized I couldn't just write a book about me and my life. I had to find out and validate points, you know, and I did that. But once I wrote the book I felt better about myself. But also I realized I had been trying to fill that void. I realized I had been trying to fill that void with sex. I had been trying to fill that void with weed. I wasn't a hard, you know, I didn't do hard drugs, but I did a lot of weed. You know I was trying to fill that void with strip clubs, you know, and all of those things I was trying to fill that void with.
Speaker 1:And it was one day I was sitting in the men's group at church and I realized that I could fill the void through my belief in the Lord Jesus Christ Deep. Something I want to read to you here really quick. It said that we was doing a study and in the it said we were studying about our bloodline and one of the statements, the quotes that were made you were made in the image of God, you are of a kingly bloodline, you are co-heirs with Christ. That's not religious talk, that's identity. Hit me like a brick. Wow, wait a minute. Wait a minute.
Speaker 3:I'm connected to something greater than man? Yeah, but think about that. What do we talk about with these young kids? These young men right, we may be, you know kid raised by all women may show more effeminate qualities and may not be as well received by their male peers, regardless of sexual orientation. But at the same time, think about for somebody like me. I got my accolades from other kids that were struggling like me. So I had a group of males that was affirming my poor decisions and so I was getting affirmation. So I remember Lecrae did a song and he said something like it was called Just Like you, I believe. He said something. They say I'm good at bad things, at least they're proud of me. So they say I'm good at bad things, but at least they're proud of me. So in some way, shape or form, that void is going to be filled, and a lot of it does come from that male camaraderie like hey, just do it, it's cool. Oh man, did you see how you got him? And there's a lot of cheering.
Speaker 1:And that happens, I agree, and what I'm saying is that at some point we have to mature Right and we have to realize. We have to realize what that is and call it what it is, just like you just did Right and so, and for me, I had to rely on the Lord, yeah, right, because one of the things I learned again is I had to forgive my father Right, in order to get rid of that anger. I had to forgive my father In order to fill that void. I had to what Forgive my father, but why would you forgive him? I had to what.
Speaker 3:Forgive my father, but why would you forgive him? Wasn't that such a big favor for him? Because you think a lot of people refuse to forgive because the person that they're forgiving doesn't deserve it.
Speaker 1:Right, but again and that's where my faith comes in Right, right, right, because again I got a line with him Right, because he, again I got a line with him right, because he forgives me. You know what I believe? It's the book of Jeremiah that it says that God, not only will he forgive your sins, he will remember them no more. And so I sat there thinking wait a minute, if my father asked God to forgive him, god would forgive him. I'm holding on to something him God will forgive him. I'm holding on to something that God has already let go Right.
Speaker 3:I mean, how many? So off of that, I want to challenge people, you know, especially those that have grew up without their father, Grown up without their father.
Speaker 1:Hey, you know I'm messing with you now.
Speaker 3:Hey, I like it, my wife does it, you know. I'm brilliant outside of the speech right.
Speaker 1:But I mean no, technologically you are brilliant.
Speaker 3:Oh yeah, yeah, you know, made in his image. But when do we ask ourself what did my dad go through? What did my mom go through? Because you know a lot of my story, byron, right, and just a lack of guidance and parents, in essence. But I also had to recognize where were my parents at at the age that they had me For me, they were teenagers and I got a teenager.
Speaker 3:There ain't no way my daughter could, you know, she'd probably make the kids survive, but there's going to be some struggle, right? So forgiveness isn't just doing a favor for someone like, oh, I owe him or I'm going to forgive them. It is for self, right. But there's also a perspective for people that try to justify their feelings. Is put yourself in those shoes. I had to put myself in my mother's shoes. Is put yourself in those shoes I had to put myself in my mother's shoes, 17 years old, you know, struggling mentally having a baby, like she wasn't equipped for that right. My father similar thing, teenager suffered a lot of loss at that time. So how could I have received something from them when they had nothing to give?
Speaker 1:And so you're saying then, once you walked a mile in their shoes, Well, once I forgave, it opened me up to receive perspective. But you didn't forgive until you were able to put yourself in there.
Speaker 3:No, I forgave first.
Speaker 1:How so.
Speaker 3:Well, I realized what you said. Early Forgiveness is for self and I don't want to repeat the same patterns about my daughter, for my daughter. And so when I met Christ, it was about forgiveness, right, so I forgave and asked God to help me forgive, because I knew oh, I forgive you.
Speaker 1:Okay. So once you forgave is when you begin to see their perspective Right. You begin to see life as they probably lived it at that age Once you forgave, you forgave first.
Speaker 3:My heart softened. I guess my eyes softened enough to see it from a different vantage point Okay, after the forgiveness. Then what I had? Because my vantage point was you didn't love me, I wasn't good enough, right?
Speaker 1:Blah, blah, blah, blah blah See, and I felt convicted In men's group. I felt convicted of holding those things, yeah, and I knew I had to let them go.
Speaker 2:Well, I think that the issue is that there's two concepts here that I think people mistakenly intertwine. They have an assumption that there needs to be connection between the two forgiveness and justice, or accountability can call it accountability right. The assumption is that if I grant forgiveness, I am removing this person from accountability, or I'm, I'm also equally removing them from suffering the consequences of their actions, and I don't think that those things are true. I think that forgiveness is really more about you right Than it is about the other person, and you mentioned this in the men's group, where the forgiveness that you granted was about your freedom, not about the other person. That you granted was about your freedom, not about the other person. The forgiveness doesn't justify or remove the person from liability for what they did. They're still going to have to suffer the consequences of their actions. But a lot of times people are reluctant to forgive because of the fact that they are wanting to visually see a repercussion or a consequence of the wrong. They want to see it. They want to see the wrong be right.
Speaker 1:And since there's well, as we spoke this morning at breakfast and you talked about your dad and your sisters and how they have this void, they'll tell him every time they see him they say something negative. You weren't there for us, or?
Speaker 3:just different little this, different little things and you windows. Yeah, and it's in. You know, there's just different little things In you windows. Yeah, and I'm in hot water with them now because I said enough Okay.
Speaker 1:And that point is, though, they have a void, right, they can't fill the void because they won't forgive your dad. They won't allow, as you said this morning, they won't see him as he is today, right, right, they continue to see him as he was yesterday, but yet it hasn't softened their heart yet, because they haven't forgave him yet. So they can let it go.
Speaker 3:Right To clarify. I got six sisters on that side and so it's not all of them, so good luck. You know what I'm saying. I ain't going to catch no smoke on that. But to that point, how do you to fill the void? Right, you're filling the void with unforgiveness. So what happens when you meet somebody?
Speaker 1:You're filling the void with unforgiveness. That's the first time I heard that.
Speaker 3:You know, because I mean, what happens? Let's just use a, I'll just use mama, let's use mama, single mother. She meets a man. She likes the man. She's leery because of past pain, right. But sometimes if there's lack of forgiveness the first time, a certain behavioral trait that's similar to what they've experienced, they might be willing to cut bait and run without offering the grace because of the lack of forgiveness. I'm not going to get caught up again with somebody like this. So what happens if we are limiting our growth which we are and the blessing God has for us, because we don't have enough room in us for those blessings, as we're holding on to too much room of unforgiveness and thinking through and analyzing behaviors from the past so that you never get hurt again? But if you guard yourself to never be hurt again, you also guard yourself from being blessed and loved and beloved and just all the amazing things that do come through relationship.
Speaker 1:Yeah, I think that in fact the quote I wrote in the book accept that there is a spiritual power larger than yourself and watch the void shrink as your faith grows. There is a power larger than us, right, and we have to be able to tap into that Right Now. For me, it's Jesus, yeah. For others it may not be Jesus, and that's another whole thing for another day, but what I am saying? That no man is an island. There's something bigger than us. So you have to tap into a power greater than yourself. What do you think about that, brandon?
Speaker 2:Yeah, I think that well, I mean, you know SANS and AA meeting. I mean, the power can be many things, you know, if you take a relative perspective on it, but for me the power is always the most. I got Right, and from my vantage point, I think that, yes, if you don't forgive, then you're going to have a difficult time being able to reconcile what's going on in your heart so that you can heal. Now my curiosity, though, from your perspective, is how does the void in God? What is the correlation between those things? I mean, do you find that people that you've researched and studied and have encountered have been able to fill the void when they have found their way with God? Or have they been able to fill that? Or have some been able to fill that void without God? I'm curious to know your thoughts on that.
Speaker 1:Everyone that I have spoken with interacted with that. Well, first of all, let me let me back up. I don't think I've ever met anyone that's admitted they feel the void. Be honest, I think it's a blind spot.
Speaker 2:Wait a minute, let's kind of park on that. You're saying that you've never met anyone. That has been. Are they lacking the courage, or are they lacking the awareness, or both.
Speaker 1:Well, remember, the book is Searching for Dad Nine Side Effects of Growing Up Fatherless and how to Overcome them. But if you read the book I also say within the book you don't always overcome them all. Sometimes you learn to live with them and some people learn to live with certain side effects. Now we're talking about the void. My faith filled it a lot but, as you know, I was blessed to find my father's nephews and nieces and you and I went to California. I met an aunt that passed away this year. Rest in peace. Peace.
Speaker 1:And when my nephews and my cousins I'm sorry, his nephews and nieces speak of my father, they speak highly of him and I found myself filling that void again and I'm still got faith in God. Don't get me wrong, but my humanness shone through and it hadn't for years. But when I hear them talk about him, they would tell stories about this and they went to his house and they went to his farm and they went to his funeral home and he came to that baseball game and I remember sitting there thinking, ooh, yeah, ooh, I feel something. And I wasn't jealous of them, I wasn't angry with them, but I missed that. I'm back at the Bulls game now. Yeah, I'm back at the Bulls game and so, but I would have told you before that experience I feel a void Totally full. See, that's major. Does that make sense To your point?
Speaker 2:Yeah, no, it does, it, does, it does. I think that again there's. I think that's then the answer to my question. It is what you're describing. Is awareness, awareness, right? Yeah, it's, it's. It is not recognizing it until you have the tools to to recognize it.
Speaker 3:Well, what if you have a disease right that doesn't surface for years, A disease, Some sort of?
Speaker 1:like, let's talk medical, let's say there's a disease. Are you giving us an example?
Speaker 3:example, okay, so you have a disease, it hasn't, it hasn't surfaced, nobody knows of it yet, but it's lying dormant for how long? Right until something, a symptom or something happens, to call it, brings attention to it. Right, right, right. So it's the same thing, as I thought I was healed from a lot of my childhood trauma until something happened, right Like and I'll be real, brandon, not that there's jealousy, like, that's not the word, it's like. There's like, and I've told you, having parents like yours, like you guys, right, it's like, oh, I wish I could have had that. So it's back to that Bulls game. It's not like, oh, I'm jealous of him or I wish bad.
Speaker 1:It's that it reminds me of your son and my grandson, remember? Yes, you want to tell that story.
Speaker 3:No, you go ahead. I like the way you tell it.
Speaker 1:Well, I took my grandson and Josh took his son. We went out and we went to a sushi and we just interacted, right, we I interacted with Azariah and you interacted. What's your son's Jordan, jordan, all those J's Jordan, and what you told me and I think you tell this better what you told me after was I wasn't there. What your son said to you, oh, okay, Well, that part then yeah.
Speaker 3:Yeah, that part man, just the relationship that you had. Yeah, he was curious he didn't have because there's no active grandparent in his life.
Speaker 1:He wished he had a grandfather in his life. Yeah, yet he still had his dad in his life, and that's well. That's another whole boy, and that's one of the things. That that's another whole boy, that's something that.
Speaker 3:I didn't, wasn't. Let me say, like we use that example, the disease, something that's been lying dormant Right. This is a new found struggle for me. Yeah, like dang, I have, you know, my mother-in-law. You know he goes and spends a week with her in the summer and all that you know so, but outside of those type of things, there's not really an active grandparent in my kid's life whatsoever.
Speaker 1:Who ever thought about?
Speaker 2:that.
Speaker 3:Now that I can speak to that for sure. That's been a struggle. Like man, I wish they had that too. This is another symptom of fatherlessness or whatever, and even motherlessness if you want to go that far, but that makes me want to be in the hell of a grandfather like I see you model right, Taking the kids, spending the money with a bougie taste.
Speaker 1:Brandon said it when we met my father's side of the family and one of the things that he got really emotional and he frustrated me at the time because I didn't understand, I hadn't gotten there yet but one of the things you said that because it's generational. Remember that. Yeah, absolutely it's generational. It's generational, you know, and he had a void. He had me there. He had a void because my father's's he didn't interact with my father's side of the family. Yeah, you know, but I didn't think, I thought nothing of that. That was a blind side for me, because you I'm here, blind spot you because you was there I'm there, yeah, yeah, I think that you know.
Speaker 2:This is what bothers me about american culture. To be quite honest, we are extremely nonchalant and lackadaisical about procreation and reproduction outside of the modern western context. Making babies was one of the most important things that you did. Your line and lineage, your tribe, your people, your tongue, I mean, there are quite literally people, groups, that are no longer in existence. They've been wiped off the face of the earth. When we look at the people that are here, it's because their bloodlines persisted. Okay, they overcame things. There was an ability to make sure that your lineage was secured.
Speaker 2:So when I see people that don't take that seriously, to be quite frank, I don't respect them. I have a an issue with men who don't take that seriously, and so the the residual effect and impact of that is not having a connection to that bloodline. You know what I now for us, those of us that are Afro descendant people, we, we have fake last names anyway. None of us are Europeans. We're all running around with European names. It's ridiculously foolish and we act like it's normal Right For there to be like one named Washington and Brown and Jones and Johnson, but, beside the point there, my last name should not even be what it is, if the man who is my grandfather would have lived righteously and done what he was supposed to be doing. But you still have a European last name. But that's my point. But what I'm saying not only do I have an arbitrary last name, it's not even the right arbitrary last name, it's not even the right one. I feel that to my core. Believe me, I've got some name that has no association with any bloodline or anything, it's just you might as well stick anything. And this is the reason why I, although I don't agree theologically with the Nation of Islam, I understand why there was the propensity to dissociate themselves between European identities, why there was a Malcolm X and a Shabazz X and these kinds of things. Right Again, I sidelined that point to make the greater point for this conversation is that the void that your son experienced in seeing my son interact with his grandfather is the same thing that I felt.
Speaker 2:I didn't have any grandfathers that were involved in my life. One I saw maybe five times in my entire life. The other one I saw once and it wasn't even a true introduction, I just saw him, you know, and they and they were making, they were wanting to make sure that I didn't lash out or like jump out the car and slap him in his face, cause that's what that. That's what I wanted to do. You see what I'm saying. So I didn't have any grandfathers that I had any. You know, interaction with that imparted things on me. I think I got a couple nuggets from my mother's father, but that was it. I mean, there wasn't an active relationship there because he wasn't involved in his daughter's life, you know. So I don't know what it is about. You know that generation of our family that decided that, you know it wasn't important for them to be present or active men in the lives of their children. But that's what they chose and the consequences it goes through not just the first generation, it goes to the second generation.
Speaker 1:I didn't grow up with grandmother or grandfather. They were all dead when I was born.
Speaker 3:I think that's the hard part, is that this is such a.
Speaker 2:But being dead is one thing, being alive and not around and not around is worse. I'd rather for you to be dead, because then you have no excuse. If you're dead, what you gonna do about it, you know. But if you're alive and I know where you live I guess what.
Speaker 1:I'm saying, though, is I also can talk about that particular void, because I did grow up with people who had grandparents, and they go to their grandmoms house, you know, and they grandmother cooked cakes and pies and whatever they grandparents did. I didn't have any of that mm-hmm either, so I can relate to that, but my point was, when we're talking about the void, I didn't realize you had that void, you know, and Josh was saying that it's like a disease or something. I have psoriasis. I didn't know. I had psoriasis until I was 50 years old, and finally I went to the doctor and she said well, you've always had it, it's just been dormant. Most people have it and something brings it out Stress, in some people, a sickness, it just depends.
Speaker 2:Something brings it out.
Speaker 1:I started my business and I had a new business and I was trying to make payroll and I was trying to do all these things I was under stress and that stress brought out that psoriasis in me.
Speaker 3:I mean it's because Brandon said something that when you talk about the lineage. So my grandfather died recently on my father's side and didn't know much about him. I met him a couple of times. I knew where he kept his weed.
Speaker 1:You knew where he kept his weed.
Speaker 3:My dad did too. That's how I found out. You know what I'm saying. But, yeah, he passed and I found out that he didn't have his last name, which means that, and then his correct last name, and then my father also doesn't, because my grandfather was really sane. My dad is Burns, okay, which was my grandmother wanted basically kept him with the same name as the sisters, and so we got and that's when you got me, I got Warren Brought. My mom is not even named Warren Brought, no more. So I got a name that has no, literally no ties to anywhere. And so I've got we're looking at generations of not even having our own name. It's crazy, as the men you know.
Speaker 1:I have a. There's a person that I know in the family that she had two kids and then she got married and her husband. She had two kids by her husband, so she had four kids, okay, so her first kid boy, second kid girl, and then a boy-girl with her husband and she named the other two kids by her her maiden name, last name. And to this day, to this day, that boy carries his mother's last name. And they got angry with me when I said you know what about his lineage? You know, and his father's still living today. You know, because she's passed away. Father's still living today. You know, because she's passed away. Father's still living today, and yet his son is not carrying his last name.
Speaker 3:Yeah, no, I mean, I feel that I was born Reimer R-Y-M-E-R, my mother's maiden name.
Speaker 1:But why would a man, why would a man allow his wife he's married to this woman to name this kid after her?
Speaker 2:maiden name. We should definitely. That should be another podcast episode all together.
Speaker 2:Seriously, we should note that Whoever's taking notes in here I don't know, josh, if you take notes, sometimes they change it as a signing. Seriously, we should have a whole, because we're getting down another whole rabbit trail. I know we're talking about the void and I want to make sure we stay on track with that, but we should really table this because there's a lot that I have to say about the whole line and lineage conversation and we could be in here for an hour at least talking about that.
Speaker 3:I agree. But I think this is part of the void, because I know for me it bothers me that I want to be Burns, even though my dad's you know that wasn't his lineage either, but that's what we got. But that was your dad. Right, that's my dad. So I want to be Burns. But now I got kids so I'm going to have to change their names. So as we get further and further disassociated, we just accept it right, and that's part of those things. When I hear Wombra, it bothers me because that's not my name, that's not what I wanted.
Speaker 2:It's weird I feel the exact same way and it's hard Okay.
Speaker 1:And for me and him I have to we're going to talk about emotional intelligence and parenting.
Speaker 2:We need to transition actually, yeah, we do, yeah, we need to transition.
Speaker 3:We've talked about the void many, many times, Okay.
Speaker 1:I want to leave you with this right here. If you're listening, those are listening. They better be listening to all this work we're doing here. When you think about the void, how has the absence of your father shaped your beliefs about yourself? Drop us a line on that. Another question what would it feel like to release blame and begin healing? And lastly, are you open to something greater? Stepping into that space? Three questions for you. Hit us up on our social places.
Speaker 3:go ahead social platforms you know, hey, fatherfactorpodcastcom, that's the hub get you wherever you go. Of course we're on Instagram, we're on Facebook, we're on TikTok as well. You can shoot us an email, brm2 at fatherfactorpodcastcom, but make sure you like subscribe and comment and review us on the platforms that you listen on. And, of course, youtube. We're ready for those keyboard warriors, we ready.
Speaker 1:You have been listening to the Father Factor. Why? Because fathers count. Remember fathers. All your kids are equally yours. Thank you for listening.
