Authenticity, Eating Disorders, and Generational Trauma

Jaynee: Part 1 of 3
In today's episode, Dr. Jaynee Paulson shares her story of overcoming an eating disorder and how it has shaped her life today. We also talk about: 

1. How to get authenticity, connection, and healing in your life
2. Dealing with generational trauma, and 
3. Learning how to love yourself 

 "I'm never going to allow this to keep happening in my life, to feel like I'm less than or not good enough and continue on that generational trauma. Like I'm good. I can move on from this because I can't give her that. Like, I'm never going to achieve what it would take."

"My children think I put the stars in the sky. They think that I hung the moon, just for them - and no one has the right to tell them differently."

INTRO 
Welcome to Part One of my conversation with Dr. Jaynee Poulson. In this episode, we talk about some of the dangers of generational trauma. She shares the story about the very first time she ever heard her mother say the words, “I Love You”. By this time, Jaynee was a grown adult… and sadly, her mother wasn’t even addressing her when she said it.  This occasion did help Jaynee gain a better understanding of how to set boundaries for herself and it would become a pivotal moment for her learning to start loving herself and practicing self-care. 

Jaynee also talks about her eating disorder and how, after celebrating the twenty-second anniversary of her recovery, anorexia and bulimia are still impacting her life and relationships.

Lastly, the two of us also talk about the importance of connection and living our most authentic life. 

YOUR FEEDBACK: I’m always interested in hearing comments from listeners. This week, I am asking you to share your thoughts on what your biggest challenge is when it comes to authenticity, connection, and healing?

Transcript

SYK 125 - Jaynee Final Compressed.mp3

MUSIC

Jaynee [00:00:04] Like, I don't want to feel like I'm beholden or I'm being used or I'm yeah, that my value is based on things other than just my God given right to be on this. You know who I am and what I am. And that be enough. It's never enough. And I'm done with that. 

Brian [00:00:23] Welcome to part one of my conversation with Dr. Jamie Paulson. In this episode, we talk about some of the dangers of generational trauma. Janie shares a story about the very first time she ever heard her mother say the words, I love you. Unfortunately, at the time, Janie was already a grown adult, and sadly, her mother wasn't even addressing her when she said it. This occasion did help Janie gain a better understanding of how to set boundaries for herself. And it would become a pivotal moment for her learning to start loving herself and practicing self-care. During our conversation, Janie also talks about her eating disorder and how, after celebrating the 22nd anniversary of her recovery, anorexia and bulimia are still impacting her life and current relationships. Lastly, the two of us talk about the importance of connection and living our most authentic life. 

Which prompts This week's feedback. - I'm always interested in hearing comments from listeners. This week, I'm asking you to share your thoughts on what your biggest challenges when it comes to authenticity, connection and healing. And now on to part one. 

MUSIC

Jaynee [00:01:19] Having people want to hear my story or about me, it's still just something that is unfamiliar or uncomfortable where I'll give you an example. As you know, we'll do the Zoom calls and every and it's something where I've been asked to be part of. 

Brian [00:01:37] It. 

Jaynee [00:01:37] Called hold on, let me help you think about what they call us. That is like I just roll my eyes every time I hear it like a okay. So I get asked to be part of the zoom calls and it's like a subject matter expert type, right? And so I get on with these amazing people that I am in awe of and I, I'm like, it's a privilege to be a part of this and we have to go and introduce ourselves. And everyone has these amazing introductions that clearly they've worked on and they've done before. And when it comes to me, I end up saying things like, I am just a wife and a mom and trying to be actively engaged in good causes and it's silent. And people are like and like, what she on here for? 

Brian [00:02:19] Why are you here? 

Jaynee [00:02:21] Yeah. And it's gotten to be such a thing that like, I have these little sticks that I give or I'm just like, I'm just here for the I'm here to admire everyone. Like, I just I can't seem to, to feel like, okay, why would they even care? Like, it's not relevant, you know? 

Brian [00:02:38] Yeah, but a lot of my guests, I don't have them on here because they're world renowned or they're famous. I mean, yeah, you get a lot more followers because people know who they are and they want to hear their story. But also you hear their story the way their PR agent wants them to tell their story. They get and hype their next project, which is great. Yeah, but do you really know that person? Yeah, right. And I think here you get to I mean, in the end, we're all just very basic. We're not all of our bios. I mean, nobody is your own bio that's your best self on your best day point. Right. And a very specific part of it and a very specific part of it. Your career highlight. Yeah, but as a person, right. What is your what are your top values as a person? Let's start with that one. 

Jaynee [00:03:18] Oh, another good. It's funny because you don't so often we ask people what they do for a living or what, you know, but that's really what matters. Like what are your values? And I, I love the idea of that because trying to help kids choose what they do for a living based on their values and their why and their passion. Yeah. So I think that's one of them. Like, I want to live an authentic life, I want to be true to myself and my God, I'm a person of faith. I, I'm a wife and I believe in family and love through love. And I know I value those things that I value. Connection. 

Brian [00:03:57] Yeah, I. 

Jaynee [00:03:58] Think that's really the opposite of addiction and, and the problems that we have because we isolate and we're alone and disconnected from each other. So I value connection and authenticity. Those are really basic. 

Brian [00:04:15] But why do you think those are your top values? Were those did those come from your parents? Does that come from your own history? Is that something you've made it conscientious, this choice, too, or is that just always been who like who you've discovered, who you are? 

Jaynee [00:04:30] So and I value service along with that. And I think service did come from my family. They I definitely feel like were a family that gave and did for others. And I saw my dad do big brothers, big sisters and give help the football team, the kids that couldn't afford uniforms, whatever it was like I we would have Thanksgiving and then we would make sandwiches and take them to the homeless park in my hometown. Like, I definitely love and appreciate that my family served and I, I did get that value from them. Yeah, but other than that, I just. I feel like there's loyalty I got from them. We're very loyal to our, you know, whatever it is. And, you know, sports kind of go, Yeah, I love a sports metaphor, but they weren't like an I love you family, an affectionate family. It's a lot of joking and, you know, some cruelty that came with that. I, I just think that it was, it would always be like me getting my feelings hurt, my mom saying, well, that's just how, you know, your brother says he loves you by teasing you and Stephon hahaha. And not having affection or connection to them in that way I think makes me value it. I didn't have a lot of the things that I do in my life are because of what I went without, though not hearing I love you, I really try to. So my children live a life of love and tell them well yeah. So I think it came from a lack of. 

Brian [00:06:00] And where do you fall in your birth order? How many siblings. 

Jaynee [00:06:02] Do you have? So I have one older brother who's just four years, three and a half, four years older than me and then me. 

Brian [00:06:08] But just the two of us. 

Jaynee [00:06:09] Just the two of us, which is rare in our part. Okay. So I think it's something that I he left. Her college when I was 30. I was starting my freshman year when he left. So I think I was, you know, turning 14. And it was rough just to be by myself with my mom and dad, which was hard. And he's kind of the he's I mean, I adored him my whole life and he's kind of the hero of our family in our town. And like so I definitely felt like I was constantly trying to live up to expectations that I could never, ever reach. I mean, I lost in everything my whole life, right? Like, you don't understand. Like, every game we ever played, everything we ever did, it didn't matter what it was. I feel I lost. 

Brian [00:06:56] So competition was. 

Jaynee [00:06:58] Oh, yeah. Like in my family, I'm like, if you're not bleeding at the end of game night, you weren't trying hard enough like that. It just and I appreciate it because I am that person where whatever it is, I'll try. And I mean, I learned to ski when I was 40. Like, I can't, you know, I just, I, went bowling the other night with my husband's group of friends and, and I looked up how to bowl and then first strike, you know, I feel like that's where my. 

Brian [00:07:24] That's where you sit down, say I'm done. It's too easy to find something to challenge. 

Jaynee [00:07:28] Just I think and I say that because I appreciate that having that one older brother, he just dealt with me. So what did he do? This is my family. People love the story. He convinced me that I was adopted the first years of my life. I think I was like eight before I knew different, but told me that my real parents, my real dad was a professional football player and that if I would go out and play football with him, then maybe my dad would find me some day, you know, just driving by. Yeah, you will. They're going to hear about this really great, you know, female football player. And he's going to be like, there's my daughter I been looking for, I reckon, you know? And so I was like, oh, my gosh, Glenn, help. Thank you for helping me. 

Brian [00:08:10] Now I know the truth. Yes. Because you love me. 

Jaynee [00:08:13] Yes. And but the funny thing is, you know that I'm I know the difference between a nickel and a dime defense. I can throw the ball. But, you know, I. I love football. And it made me appreciate his love. And I was a believer, like he said, he wanted to play professional football. And I was the person that was like, absolutely, you are 100%. You're going to do that. And I never doubted that. And I think there's something special about that, like having someone believe in your dream from a young age. And I definitely was that person that was so gullible and believed every word he said. And I can remember driving in the car and telling someone I was adopted and my mom being like, What? 

Brian [00:08:51] Where? 

Jaynee [00:08:53] And I'm like, Yeah. Glenn told me. 

Brian [00:08:55] Did they correct you? Did they like, Oh, yeah, okay. At that point they're like, Don't listen to anything. No, says. 

Jaynee [00:09:01] No. And he is. And he's so much fun. And that was the difficult thing where it almost made more sense that I was adopted. Right? Like I was like totally fine with that. But I think that was an example of my brother wanting me to do sports with him and coming up with this way to yeah, to get me to do that. And so I definitely am appreciate my competitiveness and my spirit, but the story that I often have shared that when I kind of had this reckoning of I'm never going to be what he is, he won this, he played for the Broncos and they won the Super Bowl. And I remember this moment. I have a photo of he kind of came to the sidelines for the family section was an end and I just everyone just cheering and the confetti coming down and it was just like slow motion of like this childhood dream like accomplished. Right? And we're jumping up and down and everyone's so happy and we go down to the field and we're hugging him. And my mom turns and says, I love you as she grabs him. And I remember thinking, like, this is what it would have take. This is what it takes. Like, this is what I would have to do. Like, it was like a shock because I, I just thought, like, I never have heard that I haven't had her say that to me. But to hear her say it to him in that moment, I remember thinking, I give up like I'm good. I can move on from this because I'm never going to. I can't give her that. Like I'm never going to achieve what it would take. And so that was like this huge like relief and relief for me of like, I can't work so hard. There's nothing that I hit. I couldn't think of the equivalent, nor did I desire to earn it that way. 

Brian [00:10:39] That was so it was literally the first time you'd ever heard her. 

Jaynee [00:10:41] Yeah, yeah. 

Brian [00:10:43] Wow. 

Jaynee [00:10:43] Yeah, I can remember going to like we'd go to church at my grandmother's house, like, were like Catholic. I grew up Catholic, and it was like Easter Christmas Catholic. Okay. Oh, yeah, sure. I remember going to Sunday school and having them say something to the effect of like, you know, tonight when you go home, we want you to say I love you before your parents tuck you in and say, I love you. We want you to stay at first and watch. They're surprised. And I can remember with my little white gloves and hat and looking at the other kids like, you're late. Your parents tuck you in and say, I love you. That's like the. That's the thing. 

Brian [00:11:18] That's really that's not. 

Jaynee [00:11:19] Mysterious like and that just being this another Aha moment where I, I was so surprised by that possibility and then understanding that I, that was being with to me it felt like I hadn't earned that. I clearly wasn't good enough. 

Brian [00:11:35] Well, but still, you believe your family that you grow up in your family of origin is that's normal. That's what everybody's experience until you have an experience like something like this, I'm like point. 

Jaynee [00:11:45] Yeah. 

Brian [00:11:46] Oh that isn't that you. That really does happen. That's not just in the movie thing that people tuck you in and say they love you. 

Jaynee [00:11:53] So I in with that is how I can see now when I look back that I created my family life and the person a lot of the things I am today based on, okay, I'm not getting this like how am I going to parent myself or do these things for myself? And that, you know, I, I appreciate now thinking like I learn to love myself. I learn to care more about what I thought than what others think because I wasn't that was never going to work out that way. I couldn't rely on my mom to fix those things for me. I needed to figure out how to do that for myself. And it took a long time adulthood. But I appreciate now that like, those lessons were hard. One. 

Brian [00:12:35] So you're your brother's biggest day when they won the Super Bowl. How many years ago was that? 

Jaynee [00:12:40] So it was the Broncos Elway years. Two in a row. Yeah. So that was his first time. 

Brian [00:12:46] So that's. It's been a. 

Jaynee [00:12:47] While. Oh, yeah. So you've done a long. Oh, yeah. 

Brian [00:12:50] Yes. But that's when you started to say, okay, I'm never going to be on the field. When that this happens I'll come down after for my brother. Yeah, but you. So you decided you need to learn to love yourself. 

Jaynee [00:13:03] Yeah, there is that moment. And then because this was all in the same timeline of 1998, I had my second child, my daughter, and it was just a few months. I mean, I want to say the Super Bowl was like around her. She was on the fifth and the Super Bowl, is that right? Like the. 

Brian [00:13:22] February. 

Jaynee [00:13:23] Of end of January or something? Right. That I feel like it was like six weeks or something. I just had her. So whatever date that is. And so I remember being at home with my mom and I have these three nieces, my brother has three daughters and two sons and I adore them like I've always just a because it gave me an opportunity to sure like they love me and i0i just adore it. Like just smile, just thinking about them. But so my nieces, I was outside in the backyard playing with them and my whole family was outside like were all out there and I was doing gymnastics and kind of cheerleading with them and I thought, oh, you know, I'm just trying to show off pretty much. And I did like a back handspring in a back layout in the grass and my mom's been would you stop that? Like the house is shaking, like your things are going to fall down? Like she made a comment and I was mortified and I was heavy and, you know, had a baby and I was thinking I was like doing something really great because I could still do gymnastics. But her comment, I remember looking over at the blanket and my two I had a son and a daughter. They were just 12 months apart and seeing them and thinking and this is in my journal. So like this is how I remember it is I, I said, you know, they think I put the stars in the sky like the children think that I hung the moon for them and no one has the right to tell them different. And it just was that moment where I thought, like, I'm not going to allow this to keep happening in my life, to feel like I'm less than or not good enough and, and continue on that generational trauma. Like, yeah, you know, I didn't want to do that. And so I had some boundaries with her and talked to her about like that behavior and, and it changed it really. But I removed myself. I moved to Utah. I joined the Mormon Church like I, I really have a totally different life then, but it was because I, I was afraid that I would always kind of be the little sister that wasn't that. I didn't feel good enough. And that's on me. Like, I, I just. He was larger than life. Yeah. And so. 

Brian [00:15:30] But you can have that conversation, you set those boundaries. But if we're still living in the same city, it's still. It's too much. 

Jaynee [00:15:37] Yeah. And to be fair, I, I struggled with an eating disorder from the time I was like, there's things in my journal that I see as signs much younger. But 13 was like pretty active, full blown eating disorder and into college. And then I had some recovery time, I had children and I was doing well. But that moment it was like triggered in my mind. I'll show you. And within a couple of months I was back into my old genes, then actively engaged in my anorexia and bulimia, and it was like it gave me permission. Like I took that thing that she said, and instead of dealing with it appropriately, I dealt with it in a way that was harmful. More harmful to myself. Yeah. And it wasn't long after that I ended up going to treatment. It was November 1st and I went to treatment for a month for eating disorders, learned some of the best lessons of my life and have been in recovery for 22 years. 

Brian [00:16:32] Wow. Yeah. That's awesome. Thank you. That's awesome. I know. Like. Yeah, that is great. I mean, seriously, I mean, it's so easy to say that and that I've learned some things and I've completely changed and I have a completely different relationship with my body now. And it's been 22 years. It's so easy to say that, but I think you need to take a second and pause and just realize every time you say that, it's like, let that sink in a second. Look at what you did. 

Jaynee [00:16:56] When I go to meet, I just my anniversary is November 1st. And so I always go speak at a meeting. And when I say it, I'm like, oh, let's stand up and cheer. No, go. 

Brian [00:17:05] Ahead. No, seriously, let's clap for me, because that was a big deal. 

Jaynee [00:17:09] Yeah, I feel it. But at the same time, I feel like it's important to say it's not about the years, it's about the days. 

Brian [00:17:17] That. 

Jaynee [00:17:17] The hours, the minute sometimes where I'm that close to being right back there. And it's one decision, two decisions away. And I would be right there again. So I, I never want to make it like it's gotten so easy because it. 

Brian [00:17:32] Is so fast. 

Jaynee [00:17:33] Yeah. 

Brian [00:17:33] No, it's today. 

Jaynee [00:17:34] No, it's still part of me. And I have to stop and process things so that I don't react in that way. And I share that story with that in mind that like I recognized the choice I made the, the competitiveness. We talked about wanting to earn love instead of just be right. And, and I, I did that to my detriment, my own, you know, it harmed me and my life. And I had children like that. It's really hard to say. Like, I went to treatment and I had a one and a two year old like that. I don't like that I that's difficult to own that was so important to me that I was willing to risk my life despite being a mother. 

Brian [00:18:14] Wow. But how impressed are you with that woman that did that that time? As difficult as that was with a one and a two year old and just say, no, this is the time to make changes and I'm going to do what it takes. I mean, that's a that's a you recognize how difficult that was? Yes. 

Jaynee [00:18:31] And I, I mean, I, I have my journal from my treatment time and that, you know, I, I volunteer at the prison. Right. And I've done that for years now. And I've spoken as their like keynote speaker for their graduation. And people are always like, you know, what do you say? What could you say to women in the at the prison? And I say I tell them a story that makes them laugh, one that makes them cry and one that makes them stand up and cheer. And the story that makes them cry is usually the story of me being in treatment and me explaining to them how, you know, they took at the at that time treatment was where I went was a hospital. They took your power and control. They took everything from you. Like not just the search your bags when you get there, but like, you know, check on you every hour. Some girls, it's like feeding tubes strapped to the bed, bars on the, you know, no going outside. And I can remember getting in trouble, like I was trying to eat something and I was going to throw up at the table. People went to the bathroom with you. It was very and I can remember trying to do like cartwheels down the hall, like here I am, you know, and like just so sick that I was in treatment in the hospital and I was trying to like do crunches, you know, all in bed where I'm not going to get caught. Like, I just my mind was just I still wasn't ready to get well. I was just very sick. Yeah, but while I was there, I read a study that it actually is and the body keeps the score and oh, I was going to say. 

Brian [00:20:04] This, this. 

Jaynee [00:20:05] Heavenly. So he tells the story of the dogs that you remember, that they get shocked. There's dogs, they shock them and they open the gates and they no longer run out. They stay. And I remember thinking, That's me. I'm so afraid of what my life could be without this disorder. And the unknown, the unknown heaven. I'll stay in hell. Is this familiar? Yeah. Like this is what I know. So I will stay here caged, stalking myself. And it just clicked. And I remember going to my treatment team and saying, Tell me what to do and I'll do it. Whatever it is I don't tell me what to do to get well. I live my life and I will do that. And it just my mindset was so different. Going every day since has been I my eating disorder doesn't like it around my life like all fit it in. It's like no, I am in recovery and that is my life. I will not have a life without these choices. So everything for me is like this is my eating. Just I still sit at the table after I eat and just talk and enjoy and pause and feel blessed and grateful and don't allow myself to get up and go to the bathroom because I don't trust myself. I just. That's not. I have a routine that works for me and it's focused on a life in recovery. And I, you know, I. One line or quote was, I said, I won't miss dancing at my daughter's wedding because of this. Like, I have things that I want to achieve and be there for and I'm going to miss them all if I don't start making this my priority. 

Brian [00:21:37] So I did. 

Jaynee [00:21:38] Well, yeah. And my kids still they still make comments and tell stories about how they can. They're lovingly annoyed because they now see all the things that I was doing to be in recovery that they just thought I was doing. We did table topics where I had said, Oh, here's everyone's going to talk. But it was me staying up, staying at the table, right, and processing me. 

Brian [00:22:03] Not to them. It wasn't, it was mom being weird. Yes. 

Jaynee [00:22:05] Like they had that mom. 

Brian [00:22:07] Oh. 

Jaynee [00:22:08] So I had to. 

Brian [00:22:09] Just have a meal and be done. 

Jaynee [00:22:10] I did theme dinners where it was like I had a theme. So if it was Mexico, we'd talk about Mexico, I'd show it on the map, but we'd eat Mexican food and dress up the whole bit because I needed it to be an event, a positive event, not something that I was stressed, a negative connotation around meals. And so I turned it into this like and I have pictures of them and it's, you know, we even had a night that was like SpongeBob and we made krabby patties and like, it's just total cheesy, but I needed it. And now they look back and they're like, That was because of that. Yeah, yeah, yeah. And I tell him, you saved my life. Thank you. Thank you for going through. 

Brian [00:22:46] Putting up with mama's stuff. Yeah, but. 

Jaynee [00:22:48] That's an example, though, Brian. What I, what I mean, where people, they try to recover in secret and alone and that connection, like I was connected to my kids and I was coming up with survival with them. I remember taking my daughter to the bathroom with me and being like her, you know, her turning around and me like, let's sing our ABCs. Because it just was like I not that I didn't deserve it. I don't want to say that, but like I just always wanted to err on the side of recovery, of being safe, of knowing where I had come from and where I had gotten to and not wanting to go back though. 

Brian [00:23:22] Because it were addictions and things like that. It's the recovery. It doesn't take much, right? It takes one minute. Right. It may takes one decision. And if you can just make sure that decision is in a safe place or you've got someone there or whatever you're just constantly managing, then that decision is so much easier. Yeah, right. Right. Is that. 

Jaynee [00:23:43] Yeah, that's fair. I think that it I, I just anything easy associated with but I agree with you that if I oftentimes it's like if you have a plan ahead of meeting the plan so that's automatically the plan ahead of. Yes. And that's what I really have tried to focus on when I volunteer with girls or the present or any, like having that plan based on your values. Because then the decision is much easier, as you said, because you already know. Well, I the example is, you know, if I offer you a cigaret right now and you're not a smoker, your answer is no, I'm I don't smoke. 

Brian [00:24:20] Right. 

Jaynee [00:24:21] And that kind of attitude of like this is who I am and what I will and won't do is already decided. And so if somebody offers something or asks for something, I know that I'm not going to go do that because I'm in recovery. And that's who I identify myself as though the person in recovery. And these are the things that I do to stay in recovery and I those decisions. But it doesn't mean that I haven't had like so close to relapse. Sure. Those times as. 

Brian [00:24:48] Well. Yeah. Yeah. But there are a couple of how many questions I wanted to go back and ask. Okay. So your relationship with your parents now. 

Jaynee [00:24:58] Though, it's interesting to live in Utah and have what I believe people often take for granted and then to not have those relationships and to feel like jealous and just I just know it's something that I've missed in my life. My mom passed away five years ago. All right. Thank you. Thanks. And haven't talked to my brother since her passing. And we don't have a relationship anymore. And then my dad, I've tried to have a relationship with, but it just I just can't do it. It just doesn't it doesn't go well for me. And it's interesting because over the years, like, I haven't had a relationship with them. And then I try again and then there's them, you know, something happens or whatever it is that I it just and my husband is really pushed like, oh, you know, like wanting me to have this relationship with my brother or my dad. And then I and then I tried pretty recently with my dad and it ended up really badly like, you know, borrow money, don't pay, you know, thousands of dollars lost. And it's just like this is how it ends up. And I don't want this in my life. Like, I don't want to feel like I'm beholden or I'm being used or I'm yeah, that my value is based on things other than just my God given right to be on this. You know who I am and what I am. And that be enough it. Never enough. And I'm done with that, though. Yeah, I don't have a relationship with them. I have a relationship with my nieces and my nephews. They're in California, so I don't get to see them often. And I have my niece had a daughter, Gemma, who I think is just the princess of the world. So I feel really blessed that I do have family. But my husband lives like five miles from his brother and sisters and his dad lives with us, an apartment at our house then. And so, you know, we're watching the game last night with his dad and they're hanging out. His whole family came for Thanksgiving and it was like 30 people. And I had two of them were you know, my two sons were there. So I think I just I recognize it. And I've been shopping at times where I hear like mothers and daughters shop, you know, and their skew. And I just I can feel it where I know that I'm I miss. 

Brian [00:27:10] Yeah. 

Jaynee [00:27:11] I missed the mom that I never had and I missed the mom I did have. You know, that was the hard thing for me when I was mourning is that I couldn't the concept of like I'm I knew I was never going to get it. My brother was brilliant in helping me. And like he said, Jane, if you keep trying to change mom or she's he just was like, stop. Like she's never going to bake cookies with you. Like, that is not the mall. It's not the cards. We got, like, play our cards and be grateful, but quit trying to get she's. That's not the mother you have. And when I accepted that and started focusing on, like, the amazing things about her instead of the things that were missing, it made things better. And it made me transfer and go, You know what? I make cookies every Christmas with my you know, it's a big event. Like the kids are. 

Brian [00:27:59] Making cookies whether they want to or not. I mean. 

Jaynee [00:28:01] There's aprons and I mean, it's the whole big thing, right? Because I want that in my life. So go get it. Make it happen for you. Stop trying to change somebody else and make them into what you're wanting to fill in your life. And that was amazing advice and helped me move forward and be like, I'm going to focus on my own children and my relationship with them and my husband. And but it doesn't mean that I still don't have those moments of hurt or feeling like I'm. I missed out on something. Yeah, I yeah, I don't know that I. 

Brian [00:28:33] I absolutely can relate to that. I have a couple of very close relationships in my life that have never been there or haven't been what I wanted them to be. And I came to the same realization. It's like you're making yourself miserable, trying to force something that's never going to happen. Yeah, this is what's there. If that's you're going to either have to accept that. Well, you're going to have to accept that because it's not going to change. And there are some relationships that you can create and you might be able to create that relationship with somebody else, or maybe not, but trying to pretend that you're going to have this idyllic life, I don't know where that comes from. If it's human nature, if it's genetic, if it's hallmark, if it's something that just says, yeah, but, you know, at some point you're going to say the right thing and they're going to tell you that they love you and everything's going to be good. And it's like, Yeah, but I also know that's not going to happen, right? Yeah. And so there's that constant tug both ways. But what if you're just not trying enough? What if you tried something else? Right. And there's the other one. I've, I've tried that and I got my butt kicked or it, it just comes back and it's so painful and so personal and it's just kind of hard to say, well, that is defined. We if you look at how that relationship is defined, you couldn't define it more clearly. That is what it is. Yeah. So what you need to do to accept that and move on, that's something that's in your control. 

Jaynee [00:29:59] That's brilliant. Yeah. And I. It doesn't mean that I don't love my brother. I wish I had a relationship with him, but that's just not where it is right now. It's not. 

Brian [00:30:09] And I love the way you said that. I love I miss the relationship that we had and I miss the relationship that I wished we'd had. 

Jaynee [00:30:18] Two very different things, very different things. 

Brian [00:30:20] And I do miss the other one that we had. But it was at such a cost, at such a deep personal cost that I'm like, Yeah, I'm going to have to miss it. Mm hmm. I can't keep pretending that's a thing and expecting different results, right? Mm hmm. 

Jaynee [00:30:36] And. And then it's on you. It's on us. Like, if you keep setting yourself up for that and expecting someone to be something, you. 

Brian [00:30:43] Know, I'm the one being in it. Because you're right. That person's not going to change. Yeah. And they're never going to show up with their apron and say, Let's bake cookies. If they do, you're like, Oh, this is a dream. Oh, okay. Yeah, that makes sense. Well. 

Jaynee [00:30:56] No, I appreciate that so much. Just hearing that from you bit because I don't find it often that people relate. It's like family is family and you just, you know, and for me, I'm like, that doesn't work. It hasn't been that way where it's just a given and they're going to, and I, I, it's so great for my husband to see that type of. 

Brian [00:31:16] Right. 

Jaynee [00:31:16] And I oftentimes, like I, I remember, you know, when my brother and I were speaking and stuff, like I had done this party for my son and it was like a football themed party. And, and he came with some other NFL players from at the time in Washington State. And I had it was his five years old Boston bowl five and like I have pictures and I did this like field and then I asked the cheerleaders to come and they cheered. And it was just, you know, I took NFL wrapping paper and wallpapered the walls of the room and I was ridiculous. 

Brian [00:31:49] Wow. 

Jaynee [00:31:49] But I remember my brother later that night saying, like, you know, he ended up he's the rose that grew in concrete, right. Like a two pack. But he did all these things without having with a sister that he convinced. You know, it wasn't like my dad was out there playing catch every day and that my mom wasn't baking, making snacks like. And he accomplished all those things despite what he was lacking. And I remember him coming to the party and later that night being like, What could I have done if I had a mom that did this? Like it was just this one comment and moment. But I remember thinking that like, there's so often in my life that I, I think that like, I know my friends have moms that are still showing up, you know, they're sick and they get booed and it's like this and or they're taking loans from their parents. And I'm like, I've been paying for my parents for like. 

Brian [00:32:42] I wouldn't even like that's. 

Jaynee [00:32:43] Just so foreign to me where I'm like, really? You're your dad's still helping out. 

Brian [00:32:48] Like taking me in and saying I love you. 

Jaynee [00:32:50] Yeah, it's just is so and not that I my parents paid for my parents. It's so much for me. I am absolutely acknowledged and I'm so grateful, which is why I actually get in those positions where I'm giving money that doesn't get paid back because I feel like, oh, he paid for my education or he, you know, because I'm so grateful for that I get stuck in this. Like, how long do I have to pay for the things you did do? Like, right? 

Brian [00:33:14] Yeah. Yeah. Oh, okay. So feel free to skip this question. Okay. How did your parents love you and how did they show that. 

Jaynee [00:33:23] They absolutely loved me? Didn't. And it took a while to get to that place where I could recognize that they showed it in different ways than other parents. But loved. Loved me. 

Brian [00:33:37] Yeah. 

Jaynee [00:33:37] And before my mom died, I mean, she said, I love you. She was you were sorry for the things that she had done, and I'm grateful for that. Yeah, I. I know that, you know, my dad loves me, but as much as a narcissist, like someone with a narcissistic personality can do that. Right, right. 

Brian [00:33:57] Right. Well, and I think that's a big thing is they loved me the way they could based off of their background and their experiences and what they knew. Yeah. And we have different ones, right. And different expectations. Yeah. 

Jaynee [00:34:12] And that's, that's such a good point too because you know, when I think about what my mom was going through and what she had to work with growing up, and that she was capable of the things that she did do. Like I'm, I'm great. I'm is a warrior. Like, how did you survive that? Right. Yeah, but it doesn't mean that I didn't love I didn't deserve love any less. 

Brian [00:34:31] And need it. 

Jaynee [00:34:32] And needed. 

Brian [00:34:33] It. I needed to be loved this way and it wasn't there, which I think is the story for everyone. Yeah, right. I think even we tell ourselves that there's this perfect love, this Hallmark story or Disney experience that everyone else gets but us. Right? And it turns out that they don't all have that. But yet there's some part of you that just still believes, well, that should be the case. And I also think that we think that but we've given that to our kids. It's like, yeah, turns out yet it turns out you tried, but from their perspective, you missed the boat on this. 

Jaynee [00:35:06] And they, they've made it perfectly clear to me what I missed out on, which is heartbreaking. Yeah, they feel like they have, like, religious trauma. And I just and, you know, I was a helicopter mom, like, I was so, so wanted to be there so much that I over extended and just was so afraid of losing them to addiction or things that I held on so tight and. 

Brian [00:35:31] To all because of your experiences. Right. This is a definitely a pit and people fall in it. I know. I've been in them. Right. This is definitely I've seen people. I know people. I you know, this is real. I'm going to make sure you don't fall in it. Well, you're pushing them towards another pit that you're not aware of, but now that becomes their pit that they have to avoid, right? 

Jaynee [00:35:51] Yeah. And they talk about that. It was interesting because I remember were at a cafe and they were telling me like, you don't understand, like having divorce. I'm like, I understand. Of course parents check. I got you can't just pull that one on me. But I was like, you know, 60% of the population have divorced parents. Like get over like I was, so flip it about it. But then I started to realize like that's that whole thing of, like, whatever cancer you have, it's. Answer. Yeah, you don't get to tell people like. 

Brian [00:36:19] Yeah. 

Jaynee [00:36:19] Well, yours isn't as bad as this one, right? That one. It's scary and they're afraid. And it and I'm trying to be I'm not very good at sitting in emotional stuff and like, I'm just I have empathy, like, but I'm very quick to look for the solution and to the pragmatist, like, okay, well, what are you going to do about. 

Brian [00:36:40] I remember all of it. 

Jaynee [00:36:41] Yeah. And, and just this idea of like be grateful. Like I can remember my daughter complaining about he came home and didn't get invited to a party. This is like sixth graders and me being like, well, they don't like you. 

Brian [00:36:55] Wow. Harsh. Mom. 

Jaynee [00:36:57] I know my kids have this whole thing about me being like, I'm a nice person, but I'm a mean person in that I'm so the truth, right? Where I didn't I'm not this mom that's like, oh, they're just jealous, right? 

Brian [00:37:09] Just they just don't understand. 

Jaynee [00:37:11] You know, I was like, they don't like you. Not everybody is going to like you. And the sooner you figure that out and not like my favorite Chanel, Coco Chanel said, I don't care what you think about me. I don't think about you at all. Like, that's how I feel. Like I'm just like I'm good. Like, I don't. And I'll say, my own mom didn't say she loved me. You really think I need you to tell me like I don't? Yeah. So I feel like that's what I mean where I was trying to teach her. Young There are people that aren't going to like you. You're not going to get in. But you're not always the prettiest or the best. The smartest, the richest. Get over it. Yeah. 

Brian [00:37:47] And no matter how you try and do all of the perfect things, there are people that not only don't like you, but there are people that won't ever think about you. Yeah. So get over the fact that if you could be a little better or prettier or whatever, that people are going to like you more. Yeah. 

Jaynee [00:38:00] And that effort and that energy spent on that instead of. Yeah, and I. 

Brian [00:38:04] Remember you, you'll be that person, you be that person. And the people that need to know you will find. 

Jaynee [00:38:09] Find you that you'll find your tribe. And I can remember doing the fruit thing with her. Like, what's your favorite fruit? Well, mine's peaches. Yours is orange apples. Like, you can't force them to want to eat you like you are who you are. And like, quit thinking that like, oh, I was the only. Yeah, this like, no, it's I, I remember that. But that's something that we joke about now that like, oh, we don't get invited to a party and our moms like they don't like you. 

Brian [00:38:36] Right. There is. 

Jaynee [00:38:37] A bigger less. 

Brian [00:38:38] Than. 

Jaynee [00:38:40] I was, right? Yes. My parents loved me the best way that they could. Yeah. Not because I wasn't lovable and not because I have value, even if they didn't find me valuable. 

Brian [00:38:52] Right. 

Jaynee [00:38:52] And I think that took a long time to process. 

Brian [00:38:55] But you also had needs that needed to be met and you had to figure out a way to get those men. Yeah. And that let them go, make them not be needs, which I think is far more difficult. Yeah. 

Jaynee [00:39:05] And that's where the, for me the Mormon Church came because I started going when I was like 13, 14, I don't know, 14. I was very young and teenager and it just sucked me young women's. I went, I can remember doing the road show. I went to the youth camp and the Mormon women. I know exactly who I'm thinking of. They had that soft voice, that whisper, and that were just that therapeutic. Like, We're so glad you're here in camp. Oh, and I just like, Mom ate it up. Yeah. And they made Mom that. I mean, they made sugar cookies for every holiday, and I, I just, I didn't know what that was, but I just knew I wanted that in my life. And that's a hard thing for people to understand because when they, you know, people are questioning the church and, you know, confused about where they stand, which I have a lot on that right now. But but for me, I'm like it was something that I didn't get that I was went out and thought in my life like, which where is families for oh, forever really? Like where do mom's like have the right mother daughter? Where is young women? Like that's how I learn so many things that and I really value that. So it wasn't about the three knee fights, it wasn't about collab. I didn't care. I don't care. Yeah, and I know that's hard. 

Brian [00:40:21] I needed sugar cookies. I wanted to make sugar cookies. 

Jaynee [00:40:23] With some of the moms, with the soft voices that are going to show up and bring me food when you're sick. And to this day in my daughter's in London right now, and I, I had said, well, you know, my kids were no longer part of the church. Just the minute they step foot out of my house, they're like, peace out, we're done. But my daughter is in London and she was, you know, looking for a job, a place just got a job, looking for a place to live and things get you know. 

Brian [00:40:50] One of the. 

Jaynee [00:40:50] I don't know if it's more than New York, but New York and London are pretty right there. Right. 

Brian [00:40:54] My daughter was supposed to be in London. Really? Yeah. She got up in New York because of the of COVID. 

Jaynee [00:40:59] Oh, okay. So, but experiencing that st like just and she's loving it, living her best life. I love that is that way. But I had said, well, have you gone to the Mormon Church? Like, have you checked in there because they're going to help you. They're going to feed you have. 

Brian [00:41:15] Got it? Yeah. 

Jaynee [00:41:16] They got contacts and she was, like, rolling her eyes. So she went and I asked her, Well, what did you wear? And she's like, pants. I, you know, I wore pants and but she went and she's like, Exactly. I got four contacts, calls, people invited, you know, and we're really good at that. 

Brian [00:41:34] Yes. 

Jaynee [00:41:35] So a lot of things were not good out. But but that I have always trusted wherever I've gone, my family might not show up. But but that family. 

Brian [00:41:43] You can call you can find the bitch up and figure out. Yeah. Yeah. And it's a huge, huge support system. 

Jaynee [00:41:50] And I needed that because she can't call on my family to help her. Like, that's not something that we can she's going to do. But she knows that the bishop will help her. Yeah. 

Brian [00:42:00] And not everybody has contacts in Sydney and London and wherever else. Right. And you get there and the church will have contacts there and. 

Jaynee [00:42:08] And, and I know I could call the Relief Society right now and get her what she needed. Yeah. Like that is an I did it when they were in college, which is. 

Brian [00:42:16] A mother's greatest thing. Right. I mean knowing that there's a mom there that's going to bake cookies with her, even if she wears pants. Yes. 

Jaynee [00:42:25] And I'm sure people would have a lot of things to say about all of that. And it's even me dropping like the three neophytes or whatever. 

Brian [00:42:33] But like. 

Jaynee [00:42:34] I just I think intellectually it's hard to reconcile a lot of things, but emotionally and spiritually, like my head or my heart, like my heart needs this. And I just inside that young, you know, people that have families or have this for me, like I create family within that system. Yeah. And that they, I, they were so good to me. I will never sister hoops this or sovereigns Jones like they just yeah it mattered it meant so much. It made the difference in my life. 

Brian [00:43:07] Yeah. Especially what you needed at that time. Yes, I have this. I'll just end with a quick comment and we'll take a little break. Okay. So I'm running out of battery. Okay. I have this individual that I know whose father was saved because they he came from alcoholic family and the church saved him. And when he joined the church, that was everything that he needed. But now he thinks that joining the church is the solution to everyone's problems. And while that is a big help, I look back on that, say, Yeah, but your son's leaving the church was what solved his problems. I think what solved your problem is the ability to decide for yourself what is best for you. Yes, right. Whether it's coming or going, whether it's this organization or that organization. Your solution isn't one size fits all for all of your kids or for anyone else. It's the fact that you made a decision that you needed to make at that time and it worked for you. 

Jaynee [00:44:05] I love Bay. 

Brian [00:44:06] Which is such a beautiful thing to be able to do, but I think we get so focused in on No, it was that solution. It's like, was it that solution or was it the fact that you figured out how to solve your problem and then you were allowed to solve it? 

Jaynee [00:44:17] Yeah. No, that's brilliant. And too, because we're negating like mental health issues like it. 

Brian [00:44:22] Yes. 

Jaynee [00:44:23] Prayer doesn't fix that. It doesn't work that way. And it's hard when we get in. 

Brian [00:44:27] And it's great and it's works for you if that's what you need that. Well, that's wonderful that's there for you. Right. But yeah, it's a different problem. You need a different solution. You need to have the ability to make that as your solution. 

Jaynee [00:44:39] Absolutely. I that's that. I appreciate hearing that. 

MUSIC

Brian [00:44:43] Thank you for listening to strangers. You know, I took a lot from this episode. If you know someone who could benefit from this episode, please share it with a friend. Also, I think we all struggle with relationships that aren't quite what we would like them to be. It was beautiful and very difficult to hear how Janie set a boundary between her and her mom. I found myself in similar situations with various relationships and appreciate the difficulty and personal necessity of making a similar decision. I was hit especially hard by the comment on the passing of her mother when she said, I missed the mom that I never had and I miss the mom that I did have. I always love hearing from my listeners and personally respond to each comment. So if you'd like to share your thoughts and challenges on living your authentic life, or how you've learned to love yourself and practice self-care, please reach out on Instagram, Facebook or send an email to Brian at www.StrangersYouKnowPodcast.com. I'll have another episode of Janie's conversation next week. Until then, thank you for your support.