The Dance Studio Podcast
The Dance Studio Podcast
Behind the Curtain: Unveiling the World of Professional Ballet with Ava Dempster
What does it truly take to step into the world of professional ballet? Join us as we unravel these complexities with Ava Dempster, a dedicated trainee at the prestigious Washington Ballet. Ava, one of my former pupils, guides us through the demanding realities of pre-professional ballet training. We delve into the rigors of the program, the pressures of being a trainee, and the artistry involved in choreography teaching. Ava gives us a peek into how ballet directors sculpt dancers with the finesse and technique they seek - a fusion of creativity, skill, and precision.
Transitioning from a close-knit dance studio to a professional one is no small feat. Ava reflects on her journey, highlighting the indispensable role of determination and a strong work ethic. Remember when you were 13? Imagine assessing your love for dance and preparing for a professional ballet career. Ava emphasizes the importance of adaptability in dance and shares her experiences with tools like the Got it Bar that have made her journey smoother.
We also get a sneak peek into Ava's daily life - a whirlwind of classes, rehearsals, body care, nutrition, and much-needed rest. For those dancers without financial backing, we touch upon scholarships and sponsorships, while highlighting the significance of a professional social media presence. As we wrap up, Ava shares her future aspirations, underlining the importance of self-advocacy and giving some invaluable advice to our listeners aspiring to make their mark in the world of ballet. Ava's journey is a testament to the power of passion and perseverance, offering a fascinating glimpse into the world of professional ballet.
Original music and audio production provided by Jarrett Nicolay at Mixtape Studios. www.mynewmixtape.com
Welcome Dance Studio owners and dance teachers Today. We are thrilled to have Ava Dempster, a trainee at Washington Ballet, in the studio with us today. Welcome, ava Hi. Thanks for having me. I'm so glad you're here. Ava's also an old student of mine. What I understand is you're in the pre-professional program at Washington Ballet. Can you tell us exactly what that is?
Speaker 2:So the pre-professional training division is what we call it there at Washington Ballet, the PTD program. We have classes. It's pretty strenuous training.
Speaker 1:So what does that mean? Pre-professional program? How did you get in it and what is the goal?
Speaker 2:Being in this program is the steps we take before we enter professional life as a trainee. It's one step below the studio company.
Speaker 1:How young can you be to be accepted into the pre-professional program?
Speaker 2:I would say the average age is 16 years old.
Speaker 1:The whole purpose is to prepare you for a possible professional ballet career.
Speaker 2:Yes, this program gives you a lot of very essential training. It is the most important years of your life before you step into the professional world. It is where you grow, I think, the most as an artist, before you enter dancing professionally.
Speaker 1:And how old are you?
Speaker 2:I am 18. This will be my third year in the PTD program, but my first officially as a trainee.
Speaker 1:So it's possible to be in the pre-professional program and not be a trainee. So tell us what the difference is.
Speaker 2:There are three levels at Washington Ballet. You have PTPB, ptpa and then trainee. So I did one year as a PTPB, which is the lowest level in the program.
Speaker 1:And how old were you when you did that?
Speaker 2:I was 15.
Speaker 1:Okay.
Speaker 2:And then I did my first year as a PTPA and then COVID happened, so I did another year online in that level and then this past year, the 2021-2022 season I was a trainee and being a trainee it's a pretty big deal.
Speaker 1:Is it a big deal in a great way, or is it fun? Is it difficult, is it both?
Speaker 2:I think there is a lot of expectations and I think that adds a lot of pressure.
Speaker 1:What kind of pressures do you feel most?
Speaker 2:Just because we're working super closely with the company and it's kind of like we are the step below getting to that level.
Speaker 1:You're dancing with them? Are you taking class with them?
Speaker 2:Yes, we take classes every Wednesday. It is such a small company that the trainees get the great opportunity to work very close with the trainees.
Speaker 1:Are you?
Speaker 2:understudies yes, we do a lot of quarter ballet work and some trainees get asked to do soloist roles.
Speaker 1:As understudies.
Speaker 2:Understudies, but some of us do get casted to work with them. Yeah, you were.
Speaker 1:Clara and Nutcracker. Yes, that was exciting.
Speaker 2:Oh, very much so. In the Nutcracker at Wash Ballet, Clara is a very big accomplishment.
Speaker 1:Absolutely.
Speaker 2:In addition to Clara, I was a swan in the quarter ballet in the production of Swan Lake, and then in this past May we had a production of Giselle, and I was a village woman and I understudied for Giselle's Friends, which is a soloist role, and then I was also a willy in the second act. It was just pretty surreal. Yeah, and as my first year as a trainee getting to be in these ballets, that's a pretty big deal.
Speaker 1:How many trainees do they have? This year 15 boys and girls in total Is it like half boys, half girls.
Speaker 2:I'd say two-thirds girls.
Speaker 1:And then how many people are in the company 30. It's very interesting how many people want to be a professional ballerina when they start taking their ballet lessons and how small the opportunities become as you get older and closer to the actual jobs.
Speaker 2:Oh yeah, this world is pretty cutthroat.
Speaker 1:What would you say? The average age is of the company members.
Speaker 2:The studio company. I would say the age ranges around 20 to 24.
Speaker 1:So it's not normal to become a company member until you're like early 20s, not it's 18, 19 is not the norm. Yeah, the norm would be around early 20s, but it happens that younger dancers yeah, so you're 18, you're a trainee. You've had all these unbelievable opportunities to perform with the company on stage in really big roles. Really for a trainee.
Speaker 2:Really big roles, yes, for my age and also as a first year trainee, and I'm very grateful to have been asked to learn all of these roles, even if it's just understanding, just showing up, putting in that work, putting in that effort to be there and to learn and grasp everything, absorb what's being thrown at me.
Speaker 1:Yes, experience. So who does the teaching of the choreography to you?
Speaker 2:So for this school, I know that our performances are led by Xiamar Reyes and Renat Amayev For the company. Julie Kent is our artistic director. Victor Barbie is part of the artistic faculty.
Speaker 1:Talk to me about how they talk to you, about what they want you to look like and how you can improve certain pieces.
Speaker 2:I would say they've molded me into the dancer that they want. As for technique and style, it's pretty Vaganava, R-A-D type of modernized style of technique.
Speaker 1:What are they talking to you about? Are they talking to you about the way that you look at the audience, how to use your arms? So it's very visual learning.
Speaker 2:It's how do they use their port-a-bra? Where's their head looking at this certain direction? Like all, these little details are really important when you are learning from different choreographers. You don't want everyone to look the same, but how can you make it special in your own way while doing the choreography or matching the other dancers, channeling that feeling and that sureness and confidence? Absolutely that already radiates into a presence that will make you stand out.
Speaker 1:Yeah, when you get comfortable and confident within yourself, people are drawn to you.
Speaker 2:For sure, and I think this past year reaching this level of training has helped me understand and grasp what confidence means on stage.
Speaker 1:Bringing that joy to your audience right.
Speaker 2:Yeah, that's also part of the job being an artist. We're not supposed to make the work look hard. We're supposed to make it look fun and effortless, very freeing, very enjoyable, and that's what the audience pays to see. You know, they want to see a dancer that makes them feel something.
Speaker 1:That's funny. I can never completely relax at the ballet. How about you when you're in the audience?
Speaker 2:Some well as a dancer myself. I mean, I am a little bit on edge and I'm always just super like a hawk, like very hyper focused on like oh, are they on their box fully.
Speaker 1:Me too.
Speaker 2:How is that line looking Like? Looking at it from?
Speaker 1:a dancer perspective. Yeah, kind of funny. Let's talk about the difference between a dance studio dancer and a trainee for a professional company. So you dance with me? Were you eight when you came to my studio? Eight and a half Eight, and a half.
Speaker 1:So when you were eight and a half, you know you come to my studio. It's like ballet, tap, jazz and the schedule. When you were about 12, 13, you were probably taking two shiketi classes hour and a half ballet class, an hour jazz class, an hour tap class, an hour point class and you were probably my assistant for some classes. That's a lot of dance but that's nothing compared to the dance that you're doing as a pre-professional trainee.
Speaker 2:Yes, the intensity of the training that we receive is way different from.
Speaker 1:So that's what I wanna hear about, like how different and how is it different.
Speaker 2:A typical schedule would look like an hour and a half hour 45 technique class and then we would have a point class afterwards, so you start in the morning with a technique class.
Speaker 1:what time?
Speaker 2:9.30 usually.
Speaker 1:Okay. So then you start with like an hour and 45 minute technique class and you're saying you're not wearing your point shoes during that class.
Speaker 2:No, some people do like to put on point shoes during the center.
Speaker 1:And then how long are the point classes?
Speaker 2:Usually an hour of point, and that would probably happen four times a week.
Speaker 1:And then what you do? You learn choreography in the afternoons.
Speaker 2:Yes, we have a lot of rehearsals for the repertoire that we're learning, either with the company or for our showcases.
Speaker 1:So how many performances does the company have per year?
Speaker 2:Usually they do two main productions.
Speaker 1:And what did you just finish?
Speaker 2:Ah yes, this was a student choreography showcase.
Speaker 1:Oh yeah.
Speaker 2:So I was asked to make a piece, and that was the first time experience for me. I have never choreographed a piece before. It was a experience of what it's like to be on the other side of the room. I'm used to the dancer perspective.
Speaker 1:So that was your first time choreographing and you got a good response from it, I'm sure. Oh, a lovely response. Well, it's wonderful to like it, because we all know that ballet dancers don't have the longest career, because our bodies are prime at a certain time. But to be able to enjoy another part of the same art form and stay in the same field in a different way.
Speaker 2:There's endless possibilities in what you can do.
Speaker 1:This episode is brought to you by Mix Tape Studios, a full service recording studio online at mynewmixtapecom, a one-stop shop for all your recital and competition music editing needs. What was the best thing about your dance studio training at our studio and what was lacking that you wish? Gosh, I wish I had more of this.
Speaker 2:I think I gained a lot of confidence from your studio, but then going to another school where the talent has been raised it's under more pressure I feel like my confidence was a little bit lacking.
Speaker 1:That's interesting because you were a super dancer at our studio and you seemed very happy and everything's great. And then you went to a bigger. You were a big fish in a little pond. Then you went to the big deal in DC.
Speaker 2:Small fish in a big pond.
Speaker 1:How, then, that kind of rocked your world, a little bit like, uh-oh, there's a lot of talented people out here, is that how you felt? Got a little shaken.
Speaker 2:I think I went into it with confidence, but then my perspective kind of shifted a little bit.
Speaker 1:As you got closer to the professional goals, because I see-.
Speaker 2:Because reality comes in you know, and it's the whole world out there, that once you leave such a small, tight-knit community and you go to another place, I mean it doesn't even have to be at Washington Valley, it can be anywhere else. It's just kind of like whoa.
Speaker 1:I've seen it so many times with our students. We always produce really strong, beautiful dancers and then they go and as they get closer and closer like 16, a lot of them want to quit, and I don't have any problems with them quitting. I think that that's a very natural reaction to the real world of ballet. I hate that they actually quit and stop dancing. What I wish would happen is that they would say you know what, maybe my 12-year-old dream of me becoming a professional ballerina isn't actually possible, but I still love ballet and maybe I just want to do it two days a week and look at how I can do it differently. And I always worry because at our studio we have the ballet and the tap and the jazz and then when you guys leave and you go over to Washington School of Ballet or Ballet Nova, it's all ballet all the time and I'm so concerned that you'll be burnt out on ballet. Does the joy kind of get sucked out of you as you get older? I have no idea, because I didn't do this myself.
Speaker 2:I'd say I wish we had more of a variety, just because I've been used to that growing up.
Speaker 1:So what do you think helped you in our studio to prepare to go into the bigger world of ballet? What do you think you got from us and maybe other people don't have it- Honestly like this feeling of like internal sureness.
Speaker 2:There was this thing that we had at your studio called the Got it Bar, and I remember that so vividly. It's like learning how to pick up combinations fast. I know that there's people that don't really have a very strong work ethic and it's just kind of like unfortunate to see because from what I've learned from you strong work ethic, determination I feel like a lot of people didn't get that opportunity.
Speaker 1:My goal is to empower my dancers.
Speaker 2:Oh, I definitely got that for sure, good, good.
Speaker 1:So, now that you know more and you've been there, what would you give Ava? A 10 that you didn't get?
Speaker 2:I would say being very open-minded and experimental with my work.
Speaker 1:That's so funny because I would never allow it. It's always this or this, this is my way, or the highway right, yeah, so that's really really interesting and of course, you're right, keep talking about that to be more open and free and experimental.
Speaker 2:And just because I've had people tell me the past, it's good to have an open mind in the studio and not just think of one thing as one way, because in reality it's not that. You're going to go places and you're going to meet new people that are different from you and that are going to have different approaches to the work.
Speaker 1:I always say to my dancers that this is what I want and you must do what I want, because I'm the teacher in front of you. But you will be with other people and you will have to do exactly what they want. You don't just get to say, well, I like to do it this way better.
Speaker 2:When somebody's asking you to do something, that's a very strong asset to have in a dancer someone that can adapt to different types of works and styles.
Speaker 1:I've talked about this on other podcasts. Our studio is three to 13 year olds and at first everybody was sad when I decided that everyone was going to have to graduate from us at 13 and I struggled with it myself.
Speaker 1:But over the years I've just realized how much better it is for my students to get a really strong foundation when you're young and then to let the butterfly go and get several different teachers and experiences and every student. You went the ballet route, other people have gone the theater route, some people go the dance team route. People at 13 really are old enough to assess how much they like dance, what parts of it they like, how they should move on with it or not, and it organically became this thing that I think is really better for the students than me keeping them from three to 18. Like that would not be serving the students in the best possible way.
Speaker 2:For sure.
Speaker 1:And then you said you know flexible, more freedom, even in tap. I never do improv and I know that you're supposed to do improv in tap and I hate improv personally. That's so funny. I hate improv. I kind of feel like you're coming to me to learn from me. Go home and do improv. But forcing people to do improv in front of other people is a really good skill and I just I'm limited in it and so I don't give it to my students.
Speaker 2:That's something that we actually learned at Wash Ballet. In contemporary class we do a lot of improv and that's something that I feel like I'm more comfortable in now. I think before I used to be very unsure of what improv really meant. I didn't really know how to like express myself, but now I would say it's one of my strongest assets. It comes very naturally to me now.
Speaker 1:And you like it.
Speaker 2:I do like it. I think it allows me to experiment a lot and see what I can do. You know, just creating with your body in ways that you've never known how to do before. It's just incredible.
Speaker 1:How many teachers a week do you have now in your training program?
Speaker 2:I'd say about six, seven.
Speaker 1:Six or seven different teachers every single week. How do you, as a student, respond to all these different personalities?
Speaker 2:Just learning how to adapt to one teacher and then knowing that this teacher works differently.
Speaker 1:I bet there are common threads that all of the best teachers have. What do the really great teachers all have in common?
Speaker 2:How they run a class how they can properly warm up a dancer and make them ready for their day. At the end of the day, every single teacher that I've had, I always feel warm. I always feel ready for my day, no matter like if their plie combinations are different or if their tendus or their center work is different. I always feel like my body is warm and prepared for what's to come in that day. And if you're not properly warmed up, that's not good.
Speaker 1:If you advertised here, you'd be hearing your ad right now. For more information on advertising on this podcast, email SallyBallet at hotmailcom or call 703-981-0718. Talk to me about what your day consists of.
Speaker 2:This past year, my experience was waking up and getting ready for classes, taking a five minute walk to the main building at the Washington Ballet or the other location, and then I would start my day either at 9.30, 11, depending on what time we started.
Speaker 1:And then, what time does it end, what time does your day end?
Speaker 2:Mid-afternoon, I'd say around like 4 or 5. But then if we had longer rehearsals I could extend until 8.00, or if we didn't have rehearsals that day, we could be done at 2.00. It really just varies. And then after my day I would go home, eat and maybe hang out with a few friends or two and go to sleep and then the day starts again. It's that simple.
Speaker 1:Yeah, your life is extremely structured, but you have to have parents that are willing to buy you an apartment and pay for all your food and pay for the pre-professional training program. It's all very expensive and there might be people that can dance the way you can dance, but maybe not have the parents that can pay that, and I was thinking that's where scholarships come in, so I know I wonder if a person like, let's say, you didn't have the parents that could pay, right, but you'd kind of put yourself out there.
Speaker 2:How do you put yourself out?
Speaker 1:First of all, give us all your social media so people can follow you, and then we'll talk about this.
Speaker 2:Social media. I usually just use Instagram. At DemsterAva, D-E-M-P-S-T-E-R-A-V-A.
Speaker 1:And you can follow you there. So, because you have a presence already, maybe you could go to a local business in DCa big business and say hey, I'm this dancer, I have an opportunity. Here's my Instagram. Do you want to be my sponsor? Has anyone done that?
Speaker 2:Ask for sponsors? No, but I know that some people are in connections with donors or are in scholarship.
Speaker 1:I'd like to see if you could get a sponsor.
Speaker 2:Me too.
Speaker 1:I would love that, I wonder if that would pave the way for others. They can support the artists, at the same time supporting their business. So I'm curious, this rigorous, rigorous schedule, how does the Washington School of Ballet take care of their dancers?
Speaker 2:They stress on this a lot at Washington Ballet If you have an injury, please report it to your teachers. They don't want any dancer dancing on an injury. That is the most important thing, because a lot of dancers like to push their abilities, like, oh, it's just an ache, I'm fine, I'm fine and just push it off. But in reality it could lead to something worse and if you just stopped dancing that day, you could have saved yourself from a lot of future pain or caused this injury to go on more.
Speaker 1:I hope people are hearing that. Dancers are hearing that because we are, we're strong and we pride ourselves on being strong.
Speaker 2:And we have a high pain tolerance, high pain tolerance.
Speaker 1:So many doctors have said to me you have an extremely high pain tolerance, Like needles like yeah. But real strength is in knowing how to really take care of yourself, and so there's a real balance between just pushing through any kind of pain and understanding when pain can be pushed through and when pain should not be pushed through.
Speaker 2:Your body is your temple. Your body is what you work with.
Speaker 1:You know it's the facility that you have, we might be less inclined to say that we're injured, because we kind of think everyone's going to think we're just a baby. So we do need to be very, very careful about thinking. We know what's in another person's body and let them decide and just focus on ourselves. If you've been dancing as much as you've been dancing, you certainly know the difference between good pain and bad pain. You just do. How about nutrition and rest? Like, how do they?
Speaker 2:We've had a few nutrition seminars this past year. Obviously they say drink a lot of water, electrolytes, important carbs for energy, protein for the muscle regeneration.
Speaker 1:I mean they have to be aware that they're eating disorders and that they want their dancers to be strong, lean ready to dance.
Speaker 2:And if the teachers notice anything going on with their dancers, like physically, they would say something or just check in with them.
Speaker 1:Because at American Ballet Theater they are not allowed to, and I think that's a really interesting thing, and I didn't know that, yeah. They're not allowed to speak to the dancer about underweight, overweight, nothing that they see. The only people that are allowed to talk to the dancer are the doctor. How do you feel about that.
Speaker 2:At Washington Ballet there's a lot of student-teacher personal connections so I feel like there's that trust that you can have within the teachers to talk about things. It's a comfortable environment to do that.
Speaker 1:I just hope that they're promoting healthy foods for dancers.
Speaker 2:They are For sure.
Speaker 1:Good. In the old days, you know, it was like starve yourself, smoke some cigarettes and get back out here.
Speaker 2:Yeah, I mean that's basically the message To keep the lean looks so you wouldn't feel full. Oh my goodness, yeah I mean you, yeah.
Speaker 1:so I'm hoping that you guys are getting really good messages about taking care of yourselves, yeah there's a lot of love and care. That's good. Do they recommend a certain amount of sleep? Eight hours. Yeah, I mean, they tell you like we want you to be sleeping.
Speaker 2:Yeah.
Speaker 1:Good, all right. So how does somebody that works as hard as you, work in an intense program, how do you spend like relaxation time? How do you have fun?
Speaker 2:I like to meditate a lot. Well wait, I heard relaxation, so I honestly just like meditation.
Speaker 1:I mean, maybe it is fun for you, but I find it super calming.
Speaker 2:Like five to ten minutes before my day starts I would meditate and it does wonders.
Speaker 1:I know that that's true and I believe it strongly. It just I was expecting like something a little bit more like fun, fun fun. Do you have a small group of friends, a large group of friends, a boyfriend? Do you go to the movies?
Speaker 2:Do you?
Speaker 1:walk around and go out to eat. Like, what do you do?
Speaker 2:Yeah, on our weekends I like to go out. Georgetown is a very local hot spot with all shops and all the fun things to do with your friends. You know I have a lot of friends outside of the ballet but I spend most of my time with ballet people.
Speaker 1:You have a huge smile on your face, so you must be having a wonderful time with them. So what are your next steps? No pun intended. Are you thinking, just take this next year as a trainee and just throw yourself into it? Are you kind of looking around? You got your eyes on other options.
Speaker 2:I did apply for the studio company at Washington Ballet and, depending on that outcome, that will help me decide where I'm going to go in these next few months. As for future plans, I do want to come back to Washington Ballet. I feel like I really want to dance there professionally. I have very high interests. Usually trainees do like two years before they get promoted, either with the same company or somewhere else. But you know, it doesn't hurt to have high hopes, it doesn't hurt to be ambitious and want more for yourself. If you don't say what you want and you don't stand up for yourself, they will never know and then it's just a lost opportunity.
Speaker 1:Another life lesson. I've been talking to someone very close to me at their job. You know I'm like, if you don't tell people what you want, nobody knows. Nobody goes home every day and thinks about so-and-so. When they're home they're thinking about themselves and their careers and if you don't kind of be a little bit of a squeaky wheel not a super annoying squeaky wheel, but a little bit like hey guys, this is what I like, this is what I want Then it puts the bug in their ear and then they can decide. Nobody will ever do it for you and you got to learn how to do it for yourself early and always, and there's a way to do it that is not at all obnoxious. Is there anything you want to add that we didn't talk about that you think people would be interested in or should know?
Speaker 2:Share your passion and your love for dance with people.
Speaker 1:Ava, I'm so happy you were here and talked with us today. Thank you so so much.
Speaker 2:Thank you for having me. I think this was great.