The Dance Studio Podcast
The Dance Studio Podcast
American Ballet Theatre Master Teacher-Franco DeVita
Join Sally as she talks with Franco De Vita, Ballet Master of the American Ballet Theatre. Franco shares his journey from dancing at the age of 8 to the genesis of the National Teacher Training Curriculum and how it became a global collaborative endeavor.
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Welcome to the second season of the Dance Studio podcast. This podcast is for dancers, teachers, dance moms and especially dance studio owners. In the first season, we covered topics like scoliosis, eating disorders and point shoe readiness, along with several episodes on different dance career paths and awesome dance programs for you and your dance students. In the second season, you can count on hearing from Tony Award winners, american Ballet Theater teachers, competition judges and so much more. The Dance Studio podcast fans are loving the information this podcast provides. Take it from season one guest, jennifer Milletto.
Speaker 2:My name is Jen Milletto and I am a former student of Sally's, now dancing professionally at Disney. As well as teaching dance as a college professor, sally has been my mentor through my entire dance career. What I love about her and her podcast is that she is not only willing to be completely open about everything that she has learned in her career, but she is also so curious about what others have learned in their unique experience, and she wants to share all of it with her listeners. There is a reason why I have stuck with Sally all of these years she is committed to advocating for the success of the dance community. If you are a studio owner, teacher, dancer or aspiring to be any of those things, do not miss this podcast.
Speaker 1:Welcome Dance Studio owners. Today we have the extreme privilege of talking with ballet master Franco DeVita of the American Ballet Theater. Welcome, Franco.
Speaker 3:Thank you, Sally.
Speaker 1:I'm so happy you're here today. I really appreciate you being here Today. We're going to be talking about the American Ballet Theater national training curriculum, but before we get started, I was hoping that you could talk to us about your dance career and your path to teaching ballet.
Speaker 3:I started when I was eight and I graduated at 16 in Belgium, the Royal Conservatory. At 15 and a half I joined the company because my director of the school was the director of the company. I dance in Germany, in France, in Belgium, in Italy. I was in Florence when I retired at 31. I met Brenda Amling and I was teaching for Brenda. Brenda was teaching the Chiquete Method in the school. Then I did all my Chiquete qualification. I think it was great because when I started teaching I had no idea what to do, particularly with the younger one. But to do a teacher training program, I feel for me it was a revelation. Another revelation was also to learn the Chiquete word.
Speaker 3:I come from the French school when it's excellent but the upper body is not taken care of like the Russian or the Italian school. I direct the school with Raymond for 14 years in Florence. Then through Peter Thuner we got an invitation to come with Alfred Ballin, connecticut. I came. I was there for four years. Then back in New York I was teaching for Alvin Ailey and then Boston for Mico Nissenen and then ABT. With ABT we started slowly to do the NTC, the National Teacher Training Curriculum. But I think this comes from such an experience of teaching before.
Speaker 1:How did that get started? Whose idea was it to put together the curriculum?
Speaker 3:But the idea was because it was a retreat in Casbanna with all the artistic staff of the company. Kevin Mackenzie and some of the Valley Masters got the feeling when you train a dancer in a very specific style, then when you join the company, particularly a company like ABT, when you need to do so many different ballet, the repertoire is huge. It was sometimes difficult. You need to retrain the dancer and involve Carl Peterson to start to see when it was possible to do a curriculum and Carl actually phoned Raymond when we were in art further and asked him to help him. In fact Raymond was there for two weeks at the Paris Opera de Royal Ballet to see a little bit what he was going on in this school. Then when I joined, kevin offered me the direction of the school, of the JKO school. Then Raymond and I we started really working on. It. Took us a few years but in 1985, the curriculum was launched in New York.
Speaker 1:And under your leadership, the American Ballet Theater JKO School was honored as the world's best ballet academy. What do you think you were doing that set you apart from others?
Speaker 3:I don't know maybe it was luck. No, you know when you teach and you know that, sally, because you have a teacher too Okay for a student. It's very important to find a good teacher, but a good teacher needs to find a beautiful student, because it's two ways, two ways, three do we need to reach each other? And I think also I was very lucky to find beautiful students.
Speaker 1:So you see students from all over the world. What are you seeing that their teachers are giving them that you appreciate or admire?
Speaker 3:I think when the teacher gives the dancer a beautiful technique with no affectation, just cleanness, musicality, good coordination. I think you got all the package and I was lucky also, I think, because a lot of my students came from excellent school and it was so good to collaborate with this teacher.
Speaker 1:So how do you collaborate with a teacher?
Speaker 3:First of all, I never chose a student to give a scholarship to take a student in the school before talking with the teacher, really, because I think it's something.
Speaker 3:You need to be polite in a certain way and respectful and the teacher needs to agree and, of course, the student can do what he wants, but it's important to talk with the teacher.
Speaker 3:Raymond and I we got a student from Florence during the Royal Ballet School and we traveled to London to see the performance. When I opened the program it was the name of every single student with the name of the school where the student was coming from, and Raymond and I to see our name put in a program at the Royal Ballet School. Oh my God, it was very emotional and we never forgot that From the first performance we did at ABT. In the program we put the name of the student and the name of the school and so many teachers call us and message and say thank you so much. But I think you need, when you take a student in the school, is because the student it doesn't have any talent but it's well trained and we need to recognize the teacher and I think this collaboration with the teacher, stara, just put in the name of the school or the name of the teacher in the program.
Speaker 1:Both of you, you and Raymond, are such generous teachers and people, and that's one way that you show it. I've been so impressed with how generous and kind you are with all of your knowledge and all of your sharing the curriculum. Not only does it create a beautiful dancer, but it also puts the health, mental and physical well-being of the dancer first, in my opinion. How can dance studios all across the world implement your program and how can it benefit them?
Speaker 3:I think we were incredibly lucky with Raymond because when we start the project, ABT asked a 20 of the most important doctor physiotherapist in America and I love America in this way because all these people give us our and our work for free. It was a donation and I think this is great. But two, we work on the dancing side, but then this doctor, this physiotherapist, just to be sure, it was first physically right it was not to push the student too much and then mentally, because when you want to be a beautiful dancer you need to be also mentally with no problem and happy with yourself. It's the only way I come from the old school when the teacher want to push us down or anyway, because when I put you down I can build you up, but it doesn't work like this.
Speaker 1:It doesn't even work a little bit no.
Speaker 3:Maybe, maybe you know we are all different and also, when you teach, you really need to pay attention to every single student, because some students you can scream at doesn't care, some you need to be careful of what you say. We are all different, lucky.
Speaker 1:I think you're right. How can it help to tear someone down? It can only help to build them up.
Speaker 3:Exactly, and the student love you forever.
Speaker 1:That's right and that's the most important thing. Do you want to talk a little bit about the curriculum and why it's so good? I mean, I know it's good, but maybe tell everybody how it works, or we was lucky in a way because Raymond and I we got different backgrounds.
Speaker 3:Raymond was trained in America. I was trained in Europe when my school followed the Paris Opera curriculum, when we work in company and it was a beginning in France and Belgium when it was the Cuban panel, all the Cuban came. Then we got an exposure to the Cuban method. Then of course the Russian and in our period in Florence and also in America, the luck, raymond and I, we met Alice Panko. She was the last student of a group in Avaganova, in a way, because it was after I learned Shiketi with Allah.
Speaker 3:The two methods were exactly the same. It was only beautiful dancing and every school has something very special to offer. Then we try with Raymond to put in the curriculum what is best. Example the curriculum. The Italian used the relax coup de pied. The French used the full stretch coup de pied, front and back. The Russian do the rap. But the Italian is excellent for the coordination of the jump when you do the frappe. The coup de pied front and back is important, partly for the girl. When the girl are on point, because you use this bougette, the rap could be shaped your foot beautifully. Then why to do only one, when we are lucky to have a three, and we try really to take what was the best of every single school and I think that's why it worked.
Speaker 1:I think so too.
Speaker 3:And the feedback of most of the teacher was very positive.
Speaker 1:So, speaking of the teachers, the teachers can put their students up for exams, yes, and the teachers can also take exams to be certified.
Speaker 3:Yes.
Speaker 1:And so how would somebody train their students? What would they have to do to train their students for an exam?
Speaker 3:But when you are certified you know the programmer and the difference between the ABT curriculum and some of the other method. We don't ever set exercise. We just have a certain number of steps you need to cover during the year and you give a little bit more freedom to the teacher to arrive at what is required. And then the teacher prepared the class, the students drew the bar both sides, the center. Both sides depend from the primary and level one is one hour examination Because the class needs to be prepared. The students need to memorize the class. But when we arrive at level seven, level six, level five is two hour class. We got students from Canada who was doing an exam in another method and were so happy to show you a full class both sides. Then some of the dancer was feeling it can see me better than only one time and exercise.
Speaker 3:I understand that very much and the teacher is in the room with us because he conduct the exam. Then I think it's fabulous because I remember when I present my student in Italy for the check-in examination and I was not in the room and sometimes when I saw the result I was a little bit wow. But then I realized some student react very well during an exam and some not so well. And it doesn't take away how beautiful you are and maybe it can help the student to have some performance quality also to do a class with performance. It can help you when you do an audition.
Speaker 1:This episode of the Dance Studio podcast is sponsored by Body Dynamics, an experienced team focused on the many dimensions of your health, from injury prevention to rehabilitation, management to performance optimization. Your physical, mental and emotional well-being is in good hands at Body Dynamics. Located in the Washington DC metro region and offering in-person and online services, body Dynamics aims to support the whole performer. Learn more about their services, including physical therapy, dance fitness, nutrition, counseling, backstage triage and more at BodyDynamicsInccom. That's BodyDynamicsInccom. Or find them at Body Dynamics Inc on Facebook and Instagram. See how Body Dynamics can help you dance better, faster, stronger together. What would you recommend to a young dancer today who's serious about ballet and hoping to possibly become a professional? What advice would you give them?
Speaker 3:Never give up. Follow your dream, and I repeat this every single class I teach the best quality of the dance is determination. I want to do it now, not tomorrow, I think really. And then, of course, you have the artistry, musicality, everything you want. But when you miss, determination is difficult.
Speaker 1:And you can't get that from anybody else. It has to be inside of you Exactly.
Speaker 3:You need to fight in a good way. Your mother can't want it for you, no, no.
Speaker 1:Exactly what would you hope that dance teachers are conveying to their students all around the world?
Speaker 3:We have a philosophy with Raymond because it's beautiful to train a professional dancer, but because I was so lucky in Italy, I ran my private studio. Then, with not the possibility to show and audition my students, I need to take everybody and I think it's very important to train the professional one and also the one don't have the quality to become a ballet dancer, because you train also an audience and we need an audience. We saw with Raymond when we go back in Italy because we've got the school for 14 years, some of our students invite us, make parti for us and say this was the best part of my life. I was never a dancer, but we did performance with you. You was quite tough and very professional. Then we got an experience we never forgot and I think this is important. It's not important to teach only future professional dancer. Everybody deserve the same quality of training.
Speaker 1:I got a call this morning from a parent and this is a recurring call that I get from my students that leave me and go on to the professional track. Around age 15, 16, there becomes this overwhelm by the student Too much training and they're torn between living their life or doing ballet. Do you think that we are overtraining dancers at that age, or too young of an age possibly? Or do you think it's just that's kind of the separation time where you know that you want it and you have to go that extra mile?
Speaker 3:I think we need to do a certain separation, but working. And now when we do the NTC for teacher, we have the lecturer of Julie Dogarty and Peter Marshall, our two main physiotherapists in the company the two spoke so much about. Yes, you want to be a professional dancer, you need to do a certain number for our, but we need to keep the certain amount of our and not too much because you can burn yourself. I remember when I joined the school we work every single day the 12 year old worker two to three hours every day, but Saturday and Sunday was off. I pushed my student to do summer program but to try to have a mini-moment three weeks of during the summer, because your body needs a moment of. We need to make a healthy balance.
Speaker 1:I agree. So do you do master classes? Can people hire you to come to their studio, their conference and teach? Yes, how do people follow you and get in touch with you?
Speaker 3:Some people was in touch with me with a messenger because I'm in Facebook. Some people, through ABT, sent a message to ABT how can I be contacted? And now, because this pandemic was bad but we learned a lot of stuff. Like during the pandemic, we did a lot of masterclass in New Zealand, in South Africa, in Australia, hong Kong, because it was a possibility, the student went in the studio, we was home, and not to do a big travel we did lately we was in Sweden to do masterclass, we will go to Italy, but you'll also do them on Zoom still.
Speaker 1:Yes, that's great. Our studio uses Akeda software and we absolutely love it. If you want to take control of everything, from employees to parents, costume ordering to registration, try Akeda today. If you don't love it, they won't charge you a thing. Go to akedasoftwarecom, aka da softwarecom, to inquire about your free trial today. Okay, what teacher tip or trick could you not live without that you just keep in your back pocket and you use over and over again when you're teaching.
Speaker 3:I think we became teacher and I hope because we love. I know it's a job, because all of us we need to have a job because we need to live, but I think we are so lucky to do something we love. And when we remember that the moment we work in the studio and also we all have problems because life is not every day easy but the moment we step inside the studio we need to forgot everything, it's great for the student but at the same time it's great for us. And when I give a lot of positive energy to my student, when I teach, the student give me back more than what I give. Then you see the class going up and up and up is fabulous. I was teaching when I was at the ABT six hours every day.
Speaker 1:I finished the day and I feel okay because I've seen you teach so many times and you're such a fantastic, fantastic teacher, because I do what I love. That's so wonderful, and all of your students are so lucky to have you.
Speaker 3:When I go and see the ABT website and the national training curriculum and I see where we have teaching everywhere in the world. It's just something so, so magical and the people that already examined that come back for auditing. It's incredible. And during the pandemic the two-year pandemic lucky we was in Florida. We have a lot more space than New York, we have this huge room. But we did so many teacher training programs on Zoom the first year for the pre-primary to three, we got 125 teachers from everywhere in the world.
Speaker 1:So this podcast I started to just bring resources and information to really like my former self, my younger self, my more intimidated self. What would you say to a young new teacher who's kind of feeling lacking in their ballet training?
Speaker 3:We try to give the teacher a lot of tools, particularly the new one, with no imposition, because everybody can reach what you want in different way and with the same like. Sometimes I say, when we do the NTC, okay, I think maybe this is a good way, but when you have another one, what is important is the final product. And because also, when you are young and I was young and I remember I wrote all my class, every single class, was on paper, with the counter, because it was stressful and sometimes I want to impress a little bit and my class became too complicated and then I realized slowly my class getting simple and simple and simple. And I was teaching for Alvin Ely one year and it was a day with the student, was not really completely there and I said, come on, my class is so simple and one of the girls say, Miss Odevid, but it's so difficult because it's so simple, and I say, wow, thank you, I love that. But just to be there when you walk in the studio, you need to love your students, to be there for your students. I know I love and I think all the teachers need to have a very positive atmosphere in the studio. You need discipline, Absolutely. But you need to say why you need the discipline. Not just because I want this, A day I make the group do it was a summer program the Grand Plier eight times because it was not exactly what I asked.
Speaker 3:And then I ask a girl you understand why? She said no. I say no, do it again. And then I stop and I say I'm not mean. But I say you realize that you need to pay attention to every single detail the arms, the legs, the look, the focus, the inclination of the head, the epaulom. I say the day you will be lucky to join a company, you can look on the legs, you be fired in a week. Suddenly the group completely changed. In the end of the class everybody was around me. Thank you so much, Thank you so much. Then everybody realized I was mean. Oh yeah, Eight times complies meaner. But everybody understand why. And when I got the class the week after, everybody was paying so much attention.
Speaker 1:Because they had a reason to. They understood the reason to.
Speaker 3:We need to give a reason to everything, but why not?
Speaker 1:That sounds very simply difficult to do eight Grand Pliers but wonderful, a great gift. You are truly a great gift, franco, to your students and to the world, and I really appreciate you doing this podcast with us. It's going to help so many people understand their students themselves and hopefully access the training that's available to them without intimidation or fear, because it's there to help them improve all of their classes, and so I hope people look into it. I found it to be extremely beneficial and so do my students, so thank you so much for doing this interview. I really appreciate you.
Speaker 3:Thank you so much, sally. First of all, fantastic to see you after a long time. I hope we see each other sooner in person, but thank you so much for inviting me. It was a great, great pleasure.
Speaker 1:Thanks for listening and don't forget. Please rate and review this show and share it with a friend.