What Can We Do In These Powerful Times?
What Can We Do In These Powerful Times?
Loriann Robinson
Loriann Robinson (Twitter, LinkedIn) is the founder and director of The Advocacy Team, "a service for people and organisations working for a just world". They provide public affairs advice, policy advocacy, policy analysis and more, often in the international arena. She is also co-founder of The Equity Index, a UK social enterprise advocating for greater equity across the international development sector.
Loriann speaks to how having impact gets her out of bed in the morning, and how she wants to see a shift in global development where power doesn't sit in the global north, but it's dispersed to the people in the global south who know their communities best.
She also enjoys the variety of consulting, and the way the Advocacy Team can be a vehicle for other organisations (with aligned values) to create the futures that they envisage. I was struck by her approach of having a core income, with important side-projects (like The Equity Index) which don't have to scrabble for funding.
Links
CarbonBrief explainer on Loss and Damage.
The Equity Index - "a UK social enterprise advocating for greater equity across the international development sector."
"ODA" = Overseas Development Assistance
#ShiftThePower on Twitter - here
Timings
0:45 - Q1 What are you doing now? And how did you get there?
10:25 - BONUS QUESTION: Hw does one influence British politics?
13:13 - Q2. What is the future you are trying to create, and why?
15:36 -- BONUS QUESTION: As a vehicle for others to create the future they want, do you have written down the values you want your clients to align with?
17-26: BONUS QUESTION: Given your desire to shift power and resources to the Global South, what are the most important topic areas in international development right now?
20:48 - Q3. What are your priorities for the next few years, and why?
24:16 - Q4. If someone was inspired to follow those priorities, what should they do next?
28:16 - Q5. If your younger self was starting their career now, what advice would you give them?
30:27 - Q6. Who would you nominate to answer these questions, because you admire their approach?
30:39 - Q7. Is there anything else important you feel you have to say?
More here.
Twitter: Powerful_Times
Website hub: here.
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Thank you for listening! -- David
Welcome to What can we do in these powerful times? I'm your host, David bent, and I've been working in the field of sustainability and climate change for some 20 years, it feels like the need for change is growing faster than the impact we're delivering. So I'm wondering what I can do next that is useful. Speaking with others, they have those same questions, which is why I'm doing this interview series and 30 minute bites. I asked some brilliant people what they're doing now and why, or to inspire and enable the audience, which may just turn out to me through stories grounded in experience. And today, I'm delighted to say we're joined by Loriann Robbins, who is the founder and director of the advocacy team. Hi, Loriann. Good morning. Good morning. So the first question, what are you doing now? And how did you get here?
Loriann Robinson:Thanks, David. So I run a small consultancy business called the advocacy team. And we help organisations mostly almost always working in the international space, with their advocacy and campaigns. So on a really practical level, sometimes a company might have an advocacy opportunity ahead of them, there's a bill going through Parliament, or they understand that there's a new issue on the horizon, they look at their capacity to respond to that. And sometimes if they need help, they'll come to us. And we will, we'll we'll get involved and help them. So that's that's what we do at the advocacy team, we were set up in 2018. So we've been going for coming up to four years now. And over the four years, we've we've grown quite a bit. So we now have a staff team of I want to say five associates slash senior associates. So and that's just that growing that team and running a business is for me, as interesting and as exciting as the work that we get to do with with the clients.
David Bent-Hazelwood:Also just a few bits to unpack there by international International Development.
Loriann Robinson:Yes, international development, but really varied. So some of our work has been on climate some of our work has been focused on right now there's nutrition is there's nutrition crisis, so we're doing a fair amount of work, helping people to understand the landscape of nutrition, and also think about how to respond to it. Some of it is about security. Some of the client work is about vaccines and global health. But we also sort of there's a big part of our work, which is also about equity. And had we created an international or global development sector that is more equitable, that is cognizant of its colonial past and is looking at how do we change that, and change how we run and do development. And so that work is is increasingly less focused on global development, because it's applicable to lots of other areas
David Bent-Hazelwood:is applicable to trade is applicable to investment in wood investment. It's applicable to the food industry in supply chains, a whole range of different things. It's not just development.
Loriann Robinson:Exactly, exactly. But even more even even beyond that. So we are doing a project right now with a foundation based in South London who have a an investment portfolio, whereby they are running programmes to try to reach families facing mental health and behavioural difficulties. And they want to think about how they can integrate and enable the families in Southland and be able to contribute to their strategy into their development. And so that is not a development project. But it draws on so much of what I've learned in what we do in development. And so that's what I mean, when I say that, increasingly we are we are going beyond that.
David Bent-Hazelwood:Wonderful. And so the advocacy team has been going for about four years. How did you get to that point? What do you what did you been doing, which led to the advocacy team?
Loriann Robinson:So i Let's go all the way back. So I studied politics and British political systems. And my very first job was with the Fabian Society. It's a think tank that was affiliated to the UK Labour Party and actually, they said that the Fabians were the intellectual wing of the Labour Party, which was a really fantastic place to have a grounding and and a first job and so I worked with the Fabians during those heady New Labour years, when, in fact I one of the reasons that I was that I got my first job was to people were away. I was in I was an intern. I was the research intern and there were two people who were away from work. And they were the papers were asked to put on five events over five working days with five cabinet ministers. And they said, Oh, we might need some help. I think I was and they asked me if I would work full time and help out. And the rest, as they say is history. But Fabians was fantastic grounding in terms of just learning how Westminster works, how Westminster operates. And if you think about it, what I've said is I studied political systems. And then I went to understand how it's applied on a day to day basis, and how influencing happens and how Parliament works. And so it was really fantastic grounding. And then I took that experience, like many other people. And then I went to apply that in in house. So to work as part of Public Affairs Policy Research teams, initially in the UK charity sector, so for Nagios and the NSPCC, and then the what some of the work that I did for those organisations had an international focus. So I had the children's rights brief. And so that's how I transitioned to global development. So it really is about the development came after my expertise. And really what we do at the advocacy team, that's why we can work across so many areas, is understanding how change happens, particularly within the UK political context.
David Bent-Hazelwood:Cool. And I think it was one thing that amongst the many things, which are interesting in there, one is the possibility of bringing some of the practices which have been created for working to develop what we call the developing world development, and bringing them into what we think of as a rich world or a developed world context. So that charity in South London, that some of the same techniques are appropriate, and useful, is itself sort of interesting, isn't it?
Loriann Robinson:Absolutely. And, but But more than that, so what I remember doing a piece of work with Barnardos where my team had done had conducted research in Nigeria, Ethiopia. And I want to say India, not not India's East Asia, Ethiopia, the third country escapes me. But we were looking at approaches to female genital mutilation, both in countries where it was the majority practice where the majority of women had undergone FGM, but also in countries where FGM was a minority practice. And this was at the time where in London, we had not as yet secured a conviction for against fdmc. So we had the laws on the statute book, but we were not able to save as effective because we hadn't seen any conditions. And the natural instinct of people and in government was to say, Well, let's look at the approach in France to addressing fdmc. And so we wrote a paper, I wrote a paper with somebody in my team at World Vision that said, Well look to the chair, because in the chair, fdmc is a minority practice, it's only conducted within some minority groups. But actually, they've managed despite resource constraints and bits, despite a lot of limitations, there's actually really good evidence about of success in reducing prevalence, and securing convictions. And actually, there, there are lessons from Africa for how you might approach tackling FjmC. So I always love thinking about what we learn in from both sides. It works both ways. And actually, that's I for me, like the joy of consulting. But the real beauty of consulting, which I didn't expect, and nobody tells you is the way every client and every project that you undertake, enables you to learn something that you can apply to others, you see so many different approaches that we have different ways of working, so many different ways of just looking at an issue. And that means that our each project we take take on benefits from what we learned in the previous projects. And that's really powerful.
David Bent-Hazelwood:It sounds like it's very exciting and motivating for you as well.
Loriann Robinson:Yes, for sure. So it's for me combines some things that are personally very motivating. So one is I've always wanted to have a career that was focused on impact and change. And that's the thread if you like that runs through my career. I've never been, you know, money is not sufficiently motivating for me to be able to, to work in a way that was just about, you know, reforming the company's IT system. But wouldn't that wouldn't. That wouldn't make me want to jump out of bed at 5am. But thinking about the donor landscape for nutrition does make me want to come out of bed if I'm thinking about, you know, if we need to raise an additional 300 million for nutrition, where do we target our resourcing and advocacy and what's the best approach that that those are the kinds of questions that that I find? Really just interesting and inspiring. And then like I said, at the top, it's that combination of those two, I get to learn, both from the work that I do for the clients, but I also get to learn how do you build a business? How do you grow a culture? How do you? How do you bring on a team? How do you motivate a staff? How do you take the business from one person to three to five to seven? What's what's next? You know, so all of that learning is so fascinating to me as well.
David Bent-Hazelwood:I want to just tap onto one other bit of learning which practices but which you said you had towards the start of your careers about how influencing works in Westminster? I suppose, as an outsider, he follows politics, but he's not really been involved in politics, it does seem to involve a lot of drinking either tea in the tea rooms of Parliament, or beer or something stronger around the bars in Parliament. I mean, is it? Is it literally just influencing one on one in with a some kind of beverage of choice? Or does what? How does it work? Three minutes or less.
Loriann Robinson:So I think the number one tool that I use to influence is the advocacy letter. So there is no no drinking, involved. Of what the I think the reason that the that that social element comes around, is because events are a great way of putting something on the agenda, or, and it's a great way of encouraging people that you want to influence to hear a perspective and to think about it in a new way. And so then there's always this challenge about well, of constantly innovating. So that events feel different and feel fresh, and people want to continue doing it. And so people find that, of course, if you offer people free food and free drinks, there's a good chance you can get a crowd. And so that is why, you know, you'll see a for sure a prevalence of those sorts of events. Very early in my career, you know, I would, I would spend probably three, four evenings per week, after work, just going to events and receptions and lectures, because it was a great way to build your network. There are so many fantastic people who are always coming through London, I remember seeing Bill Clinton giving us a lecturer at the LSE sort of given that what that would, for me would be a great Thursday evening, joining going to a lecture like that. But yeah, we constantly, I think it's less that the the the mode of gathering is not so important. We were constantly finding new ways of doing it. Right now we're doing a film launch in within the department, for example. But the point is about the reason that that's useful, is because it's a good way of putting things on the agenda. And you mentioned one to one meetings, I mean, they are great if you already have the network's you already have the relationships and you can you can get you can get the meeting, but sometimes putting on the event enables you to build the relationships that you can have the one to one meeting that follows. So there's such a, there's such a plethora,
David Bent-Hazelwood:you've already spoken about how much you enjoy the work of the advocacy team, and also the actual running of the business of the advocacy team are all in the service of one starting development and impact. But there's it has broader remit than just overseas, it also applies here. What is the future you're trying to create? And why?
Loriann Robinson:Yeah, great question. So in many ways, because of the way that we work, we don't have a mandate to influence in on any one particular area. I would almost turn that around and say, We are a vehicle and a tool that is helping other organisations to create the futures that they envisage. And of course, everybody that we worked with were that are creating futures that are in line with our own values. So I don't come from a perspective of thinking, the one thing that we really need to focus on is x. I see myself and I see the advocacy team as a resource. That is that's supporting change it across lots of different areas. But if you asked me kind of personally, what are the some of the things that I would like to see being different within within the global development landscape? Right now? I think like many people, I would I'd like to see that a shift in global development where power and resources and access doesn't sit in the global north and in big international organisations, but then it's dispersed and that it's led by the people in the global south who, who know their communities best who know their contexts best who have, who have everything they need to kind of drive development. But just very often, the money and the resources are controlled in the north. And so shifting, shifting those resources, shifting that power, for me is really one of the top priorities within development that I would personally like to see. And that's something that we contribute to, on a pro bono basis, etc. But it's not something that I'm leading initiatives in, rather, I'm supporting.
David Bent-Hazelwood:Sure. And so for the work of the advocacy team do you have so you want your, your vehicle for others to be successful? And those others that in some way align with the values that you have driven? Do you have those values written down somewhere, or that particular way of going? No, we're not going to work with eggs, because
Loriann Robinson:so we don't have those values written down, I think that is a useful exercise that we should undertake, in many ways, like a lot of businesses, we, I tend to think that I apply my values in how I do business, and how in the sorts of policies that we have in the in the organisation. So the evidence of that is, you know, we're transparent about our client list, and you can take a look. But equally, I have not had any approaches where I've had to make a really tough, you know, call about whether or not we can take money from company Exxon or not. They haven't approached, it hasn't, it hasn't been an issue. So it has been fine. I think, and I don't anticipate that changing very much. You know, I don't anticipate that changing this all in the future. So for me, I try to focus on kind of living the values as opposed to the starting point being let's let's set them out. Let's set them. Having said that, I do understand, I work on an initiative called the equity index, which I also co founded. And that took a very different approach. And I said, Well, given that we are the equity index, we, we need to be really clear about our values. And we just said our principles, and we need to make our own commitments, etc. I've tended to just try to just focus on doing the work, and then why it's applied the values and how how we do business.
David Bent-Hazelwood:That's great. And I think the other thing, more of the content of what you're saying in the answer to the question about the future, your personal values about shifting both the distribution of resources, and also who has control over those resources from the global north and global South, and meaning that the people who are closest to what needs to be done, have not only have access to the resources that they need, but also are not tied up with all of the requirements of funders, which may be irrelevant, or least sort of at right angles to what is really needed in that place. So there's some really important agenda. The one thing one part of that that occurs to you that's very live at the moment is, as part of the climate negotiations, there's loss and damage, which the Gyptian Egypt based copies do in the next few months. And one of the big agendas there, particularly because it's a cop based in Africa is going to be about how will the rich world feed into loss and damage rather than just abandoning into whatever I'm using quite strong terms, we're abandoning the poorer and more exposed world to the consequences of climate change. And other is that one of the things you're involved with is what are the other sort of hot topics within that redistribution of both resources and power? Are there particular areas which are most important right now?
Loriann Robinson:Yes. So we are not doing work on lots? Well, we I think we will work on loss and damage, but within the context of a wider campaign that we are in the early stages of working on, which is looking at reparations for slavery, but very much. If you think about loss and damage, it is much from that perspective, and all what we are and that is very much a campaign which has existed for many years, and a lot of work has already taken place and a lot of thinking and campaigning and policy and research and evidence work as has already been done. What there hasn't been so far today does a really targeted campaign focused on powerful institutions and decision makers in Europe. And that's the gap that in this initial stage that we are working with future advocacy to try to, to develop. So that so and I think for sure that that campaign will need to have a key element that looks at To climate, and that looks at loss and damage, because of course, the Caribbean is one of the most exposed places in that regard.
David Bent-Hazelwood:And it's worth making a connection here to another of these interviews, which is not as I speak is not yet public. But when this goes out will be public, which was with Paul Van xhale, who was the Executive Secretary of the South African Truth and Reconciliation Commission. And part of that conversation, we spoke about how the Britain needs to reconcile itself to its colonial past, and how we're not doing that. disturbs and distorts the decisions we make today. So there's there's a linkage there, I think to to reckoning with our contribution to slavery. You've touched on this a little bit, but Question three is, what are your priorities for the next few years? So it sounds like the that thing on slavery is one of those things, what are the other priorities for you over the next few years?
Loriann Robinson:Yes. So it's hard to set priorities from a thematic perspective? Well, firstly, let me say that the equity index is is a project that I that I run and so seeing, taking that to the next stage, which has been much harder because of the unlike the business where I'm much more in control, the equity index will need to be at least in part grant funded. And so we're working really hard to try to secure funding that I can take that that project so that it's live, and it can run in it's an entity that we, the co founder, Alex Martin, tonight, I'm not involved on a day to day basis. But it's so that that is that is a priority from a thematic perspective. So much of our work, though, is, is driven by the by the client, so they come to us and say, We need help on X, Y, and Zed. And it's really hard to see how that will will emerge. So I don't know. What what are the big issues that we'll be focusing on? Next week? Or one? No, I know, for next week, but certainly next week, we're good, but maybe not say in two years time. And most of our work, I think, typically maybe three to six months, campaigns or projects. So we tend to move on and move on to the next. So our priority focuses will very likely move with what are the big issues coming up in development, I suspect we're going to we will see a a, an issue around Oda funding for refugees in Europe as a result of the Ukrainian crisis. And, you know, I could envisage that it unfolds with the political and the global developments. And so in terms of the things that we do have control of those kinds of independent projects that we do. So we run a project called Opening Doors, which is about helping and supporting people who come from backgrounds that are underrepresented in development, to secure opportunities and jobs in the sector. So we want to we will definitely continue with our opening doors programme and continue for that to be a part of what we do. Some of our independent projects, including a training programme that we run, virtually in person, I think that will increasingly be a priority. But also for me, I'm thinking about learning about what kind of business we want to become and what is our strategy should we think should we think be thinking much more globally? Should we be thinking, you know, is there scope for the advocacy team and in different places, you know, what, there's so much learning, there's so much opportunity and potential so I'll also be thinking about
David Bent-Hazelwood:so there's this last priority is about developing the business. And then there's, there's import so it can be responsive to what is hot and needs advocacy from those organisations which have an align to the values. And then there are one or two thematic areas which almost like I don't want to say, side projects, but they they're this like, there's the core of the business. And then there's there's other things which you're you do because you think they're important that they have a slightly different sort of badge to them.
Loriann Robinson:Exactly, and nobody will find them and the business
David Bent-Hazelwood:in this in this priorities of advocating for the right kind of development and kind of development which unlocks resources and transfers power to those who are closest to the frontline are most affected by the issues. If someone is inspired by those priorities, what should they do next?
Loriann Robinson:There are a few things I mean, there are lots of global movements and networks and groups that they can be a part of. So there is the shift the power network, and if you just look at the hashtag shift the power, you can join and be part of those conversations. into I think I would say, look into the official networks and conversations that exist. But I think more than that, even I would almost say that step two and step one is, as you're if you're coming into a career in this space early on, it's very likely that if you're at the start of your career that you would have spent time in university. And remember, I didn't study development. So I missed I skipped this step. But thinking about all of these historic and structural issues that have led to the inequities that that exist in the world, that these imbalances between countries and the way resources are allocated and the issues, and it's likely that when you secure that first job, or that second job in development, those nobody talks about those things that you that you are seeing in university, and that you were learning and you you very quickly become either a technocrat trying to fix one small technical issue after another, or you become somebody who maybe is working in it on paper on on a role that should be looking at structural change, but probably from a very small perspective, because each organisation has its small niche. So what I want to say there is don't is to keep that thinking that you learned, or that you have acquired, and keep chatting, bring those ideas into the workplace and find others that you can connect with, and that you can talk to, and just really think about how you can change the way that your individual project the way your individual company, the way your individual organisation is working, and is approaching these these things. Because I think, you know, that's going to be such a powerful part of how change comes about, in addition to and then step two is about joining, either working directly for institution and actively working on these issues, or joining those movements. But not everyone can join them or not everyone will what can work in those. But I think everyone can contribute in some way. To this.
David Bent-Hazelwood:That's great. And I think also that raising issues, keeping that keeping that big picture, keeping that ambition and not being co opted into what is currently being allowed to be said, Absolutely, it can feel risky. And it may also be risky. But also, it's quite likely that people around you also think sort of the same, but just don't know that feel able to talk about it. So I speaking with somebody today who was having that experience, and I know, a piece of work I did before the pandemic was with a company. And it was only when they were extinction, rebellion protesters outside their door that people talk to each other about climate change. And they all discovered that they were terrified, but they just hadn't been speaking to each other about it. So I think being the person who can raise the big unimportant long lasting issues which are otherwise being disappeared, sometimes you'll discover there are others who have those views, and you can do stuff together. Absolutely. And then my next question, if your younger self was starting their career now, what advice would you give them?
Loriann Robinson:I would say it's going to be okay. There'll be twists and turns and but you know, in short, that is that it will be okay. But I think if I look back, I really focus on learning, learn learning a skill. And in many cases, I was very fortunate that I what I learned was how to influence and that's a thing that has taken me through through my career to, to think a lot about to be an advocate for yourself. Again, it was only really in the last five years that I started really thinking through about how I advocated for myself from a professional perspective. And that's ironic for somebody who spent who runs a business called the advocacy and who have spent their career advocating for change, but you know, for a long time, I I didn't think about my own self or I just, you know, accepted things as they were. So be i i think i would say to my younger self really think about that and be an advocate for yourself at a much earlier stage. And, you know, this is a career that is such a it's such a privilege in so many ways because it's one that enables you to really see and experience the world in a way that few others get to go and this you know, and I know that you will have had that experience where you get to just physically see parts of the world and see communities and meet people that very, very few people will ever get a chance to meet. And that shapes and it changes you and it it shapes how you have your own perspectives, and it shapes just who you are. And so it's such a privilege to do it that just, yeah, work hard. And as I've tried to do just opening the open the door so that others can come in and be able to experience this sort of careers.
David Bent-Hazelwood:Wonderful. Who would you nominate to answer these questions because you admire their approach.
Loriann Robinson:I would nominate my co founder on the equity index, Alex Martin.
David Bent-Hazelwood:Thank you. And just finally, excuse me, anything else important you feel you'd like to say?
Loriann Robinson:No, I feel like we've covered it. But I really enjoyed it. So thanks for inviting me, David.
David Bent-Hazelwood:Wonderful. Well, thanks very much to Loriann. And thank you very much to you for listening. I think it's always a pleasure. And just to hear about having a general direction, general set of values which are about making a better world because of the transfer of resources and power, but then putting your own skills in the service of that whatever is needed, based on what comes up is really inspiring. So thank you very much for your time. And thank you for listening
