As you may or may not be aware, international shipping is a complex process, requiring well formulated plans, competent partnerships, and experienced providers. Without the proper understandings and expectations, companies with international cargo have trouble moving them in a time and cost effective manner in a world of more than 190 countries and multiple avenues for transporting cargo between them. It's okay if you feel apprehensive whenever the time comes to organize your next shipment. Questions about each of your international transportation options should never go unanswered, especially as you strive to meet customer commitments and organizational deadlines. I'm your host, Eli Simonson. And in this episode of beyond the road, let's talk to an international shipping expert who will go over roll on roll off containerized or flat rack transportation, and Breakbulk service. These are three standard methods for transporting freight internationally via marine vessel. Each of these services have pros cons and use cases to consider and understand when deciding which is right for you. So let's talk about them. Hello, and welcome back to another episode of beyond the road, the transportation industry podcast where we talk all things transportation and logistics. Today we're dipping our toes into the international transportation space. Joining me to talk about it is Zach Ticha. Zach works with our international division here at Anderson Trucking Service. Zach, thanks for joining me.
Zach:Yeah, thanks for having me. I'm really excited. Looking forward to talking about a few international topics this morning.
Eli:Yeah, it's gonna be a little out of my comfort zone. It's not something that I generally would know a whole lot about. But let's kind of talk about your history at Anderson or ATS International. You know, it seems like you have a pretty interesting role on the international team. What do you do, how long you've been doing it? And what do you like most?
Zach:Sure. So I have been with ATS for a little over six years now, all six of those years have been spent within our international division, where I'm on more of the account management and business development side; meeting with clients potential clients, just kind of discussing what projects they may have on the horizon and how ATS international could be of service for those projects.
Eli:And so ATS International to my understanding is you're a freight forwarding company, correct? Your role is to is basically building a transport concept?
Zach:Absolutely. Yes. So we are in NVOCC, which means we're a non vessel operating common carrier. So ATS International doesn't own any ships and vessels, barges or anything like that. So we do act as a true freight forwarder true broker where clients will come to us with their their needs, explained that they need to get cargo from point A to point B. And then we will ultimately yes, develop the whole transport concept and facilitate the the entire process from from door to door.
Eli:Right. And for those of you who are interested in learning a little bit more about ATS International, I'll put a link to their to their pages in our show notes below. But Zach, to my understanding ATS international that's like one of the younger divisions here here at ATS, correct?
Zach:Yeah, it certainly is, as far as ATS are national goals. We we certainly don't necessarily have the headcount that other divisions do. Within our corporate headquarters here at St. Cloud, we sit about 10 folks. So, you know, a building made up of I don't know whether maybe 600 employees in St. Cloud only only 10 of us that focus on the international business.
Eli:So, what kind of things are you specializing in what are you seeing most as a freight forwarder ATSI?
Zach:Sure. Kind of fitting the mold of Anderson as as a whole we kind of stuck to the same core competencies that the domestic side has where you know we specialize in the large out of gauge over dimensional type of shipments in the in the international shipping industry. It's known as Project Cargo. So, we enjoy the project cargo cargo is where you have to think critically and methodically in order to ensure that you are developing the safest, most economical way to transport these, these pieces.
Eli:Right, yeah, so it's more of a it's like a puzzle basically that you are start to finish kind of arranging and overseeing for you for your customer.
Zach:It is yes, when clients or potential or prospects bring us some, some materials, some cargo that they would like quoted, there's, there's 1,000 different ways that we could piece together options for them. So, and a lot of times, when they're coming to us, they don't necessarily give us guidelines as to how they want it done. Because that's, that's why they're coming to us in the first place, right, we're trying to be the experts, experts acting on their behalf. So it allows us or it gives us a lot of free rein to kind of develop what we think would be the best. Sometimes we'll develop a few different options, few different scenarios, depending on how time sensitive it is, and stuff of that nature. So we we do we are kind of the the one stop shop to get everything from start to finish.
Eli:And as these international projects been pieced together, the topic of this conversation actually comes into play a lot, right? Because we're talking about those those common methods for moving freight via marine vessel, those service options, the the options available to the freight forwarder and the shipper to get those cargoes across the ocean, via vessel. So those that we're going to kind of cover today, the pros and the cons and the use cases of are the roll-on/roll-off transportation, containerized or flat rack shipping, we're using the container vessel and then Breakbulk oceanic transport, which we do a lot of it's more of that project based cargo that you were talking about earlier, just jumping in here. Let's just start with roll-on/roll-off also commonly referred to as roro, we can call it row row if you'd like. It's kind of a fun term to say. But what is it? What is what is roro? When is it used? Yeah, let's just define it for the listener.
Zach:Sure, sure. Absolutely. Yeah, determining and picking a vessel is kind of where usually one of the major starting points throughout our process, right so once we take a look at a piece of cargo or the dimensions or exactly what the makeup is, we can then determine pretty quickly what type of vessel is going to be needed. Sometimes there's there's only one type of vessel that really fits that particular piece of cargo, sometimes, a piece of cargo can can travel and sail on several different types of vessels, which opens the door to a few a few options from from our side. But yeah, like you said, we usually start with with determining what type of vessels needed and then kind of go go from there. So jumping in to to roll roll roll on roll off it's the services is exactly as it's it's kind of described in the name right. So the roll on roll off vessels, they all have ramps on them where the ship is able to dock into port right alongside the pier, and then they drop and lower a ramp where material can be driven or rolled or towed on to the vessel. So it's it's really enticing for those clients that have cargo that is self propelled like tractors or any sort of wheeled or tracked rig. And then it's a it also applies to just your your normal trailers that maybe they they have wheels on it, and we just need to supply the power at the port to get it up the ramp and stowed onto the vessel. There's another form of row row kind of within the row row market where we have the ability to move pieces as mafi cargo or static cargo. So for instance, if there's a project made up of, you know, larger crates that are pretty wide, pretty tall, heavy, we can deliver them to the port and before the vessel arrives, we can load the crates the material onto a mafi Trailer The mafi trailers are owned by the vessel carriers. And there they keep a stack of empty ones at the port someone who bring the cargo into the port before the vessel even arrives they can transfer it from incoming trailer to the mafi trailer they'll secure the cargo the last shutdown to the mafia trailer and then once the vessel arrives and gets into port, they'll drop the ramp and then we tow that trailer onto the vessel for ocean transit. So it's it's enticing to the clients that have the cargoes like I said that that can't fit into a container maybe they're wide they're heavy. And also it's it's beneficial to the ocean carriers to stuff the Mafia's in the port so that once the vessel gets into position it saves a lot of time on the the loading unloading because rather than bring that crate up the ramp and then secure the crate down to the vessel floor. The the crates are already secured to the mafia so they can just tell them off yon and then stole the mafia on the vessel accordingly.
Eli:Of the three transportation services we're talking about today row row is the one I'm most familiar with. And it really seems like a pretty versatile option. Right for shippers that have many types of cargo. Right, you talked about the use case of the mafi trailer and the ability to move static cargo onto these vessels. In addition to anything really self propelled, what kind of cargo Are you seeing mostly? So it's mostly Is it mostly machinery? A lot of raw materials?
Zach:Yeah, so we see a lot of heavy machinery will handle a fair bit of Tobel units as well. Perhaps they're going to like offshore construction sites, stuff of that nature, but a lot of road equipment, construction equipment, some some tractors, yeah, and anything that essentially has wheels on it, or, like we said, if we think it would be stowed nicely to a mafi, that that type of cargo applies as well.
Eli:Sure is it generally difficult to find a A roll on roll off option for for a customer?
Zach:Yeah, so that's one of the one of the cons when it comes to the row row side of transportation is that there are not as many row row carriers out there that exists. So there's, there's container carriers everywhere you turn, but the row row guys they're they're few and far between, there's just not as many vessels so since there's not as many vessels that means that there are fewer port calls, and fewer ports that can accommodate and take these these rural vessels in. So the oftentimes what we see when when we have the rural cargo is that we have to travel a little bit further, whether that be here in the US or in a different country, on the trucking side. So we've got to kind of have to chase these, these ro ro vessels and go where they are based on their their schedule. So that's, that's a con but one of the pros is that there's there's a lot less less lifting of the cargo, you know, for instance, if the unit has wheels on it, we don't have to lift it at all, we can just tow it right onto the onto the vessel. And if it is a piece of static cargo where it gets transferred to mafi, we're only transferring it you know at the port of export one time when we take it off the truck and place it on to the to the mafi as opposed to some of the other options where there's there's multiple picks involved. But another thing too, is that all of the rural carriers have the their their decks are enclosed, right. So everything's gonna sail under deck. So none of the cargo is ever exposed to the ocean air the salt spray any, any sort of any elements like that.
Eli:Interesting. So yeah, so if we're going to start jumping into these pros and cons that first con, that you mentioned, is just that the fact that there are fewer these vessels, right and there, they're sailing fewer ports, and which can kind of increase depending on your location, obviously your origin, location or destination location, I suppose. Increase your your on and off carriage costs.
Zach:Exactly. Yes.
Eli:Yeah. Just just to secure one of those vessels. Is it that they're calling less ports? Or is it that they're, they're sailing less frequently?
Zach:Both, actually. So since there's, there's fewer vessels, so you know, a lot of these majority of these railroad carriers have what's known as a liner service or fixed service where they're making the same continuous loop over and over and over and over, so we know what ports they're going to call, but because there's less vessels in play, as opposed to having, you know, one sound or offering one sailing per week, a lot of the railroad carriers can only offer one sailing a month or one sailing every three weeks or some something like that.
Eli:I've seen a couple of photos of these, these massive ro ro vessels and at a port, and then there's just lines and lines and lines of motorized like vehicles from car companies and stuff. Is that the main method they're using to transport that?
Unknown:Yeah, so the the roro vessels, you know, the main purpose Yes, is there a car carrier so they're dealing with all of the the car manufacturers to fill as much of the vessel as as possible and a lot of the contracts that these ocean carriers agreed to with the car manufacturers kind of dictates the schedule in the the path that they're they're going to be on or the route that they're going to be on and then to kind of supplement their their costs and to add to the the overall cargo list and what they can carry. Yes, they'll try to get the heavy construction, machinery, the tractors, the static stuff, like we talked about, to kind of, you know, add on to what they're they're carrying out. But yes, most of the vessel is or a lot of the vessel is filled with cars, it's actually that the vessels are, it's, it's crazy how high tech they are. So the, there's these new rural vessels, they'll have, like several decks inside of them where you go up one ramp, but then you can go up, you can go down, you can go straight to the main deck, and then it's like a floating parking garage. And a lot of the decks are hydraulic, so they, they can raise and lower meeting, you know, so if they have a bunch of sedans that they're transporting from Europe to the U.S. or something they can, they can raise the deck so that there's only you know, about five feet of clearance, or if they need to transport some construction machinery and they need more space, they can they can lower the deck and, and create, you know, 15 feet of of headspace flow. So it's, it's, it's really impressive.
Eli:Yeah, they're definitely an innovative solution. Jumping, just going back to that, that advantage of the railroad transportation that you talked about a little bit is just those fewer touch points, you're not lifting that on, you're not lifting that off. So obviously, that helps you with your cargo damage stuff. In addition to that everything is within the belly of the of the vessel, correct on roro, right? They just drive in. Yeah, nailed it. Exactly. So that's another thing you avoid those, the interaction with the elements there, and you don't have to worry about tarping like breakbulk or something? Yeah, let's jump into the containerized, slash flatrack oceanic transport. What is that? What does that mean? So we're talking about container vessels?
Zach:Sure, sure, sure. So unlike the roro vessels, there's, there's container vessels, container carriers, everywhere, every major port in the U.S. is going to have several different container carriers that go in and out of that port. So the as far as, you know, availability, and finding these container carriers, they're everywhere. So it kind of opens the door to locating and perhaps finding a more economical solution, because there's less trucking in the US or less trucking in a foreign country that we have to source, right. So you can get closer to origin, you can get closer to destination.
Eli:Yeah, there's just a ton of so there's just a ton of these container ships. And using a container ship, is that more operationally intense for someone in your position? Do you have to rent? Like if they don't own a container, you have to worry about the container cost, you have to worry about the drainage to and from the port?
Zach:Sure. So yeah, good. Good question. The what we've we've So it's it's a start to finish you have to have a lot of seen a lot lately, obviously, is I'm sure everybody's kind of well aware after watching the news last couple of years is there's there's congestion everywhere, particularly in the container market, where the the ports are over congested, the rails are over congested, it's tough to come by dray tough to come by a dray carrier to pick up the container from the port and bring it to final destination. So it's, it's a lot more fast paced than the roro side. Because things just happen a little bit quicker, there's more sailing options for these ocean carriers are calling a port probably on on a weekly basis if not every five days or so. So there's, there's more options to get your container out of the port and on a sailing. But you know, also keep in mind that at the moment, a lot of these ocean carriers are booked anywhere from you know, three to eight to 10 weeks out just because of the the overall congestion that we're facing worldwide. But back to your one of the questions you had is that yes, if if there's a client perhaps in St. Cloud, Minnesota that's looking to move some containerized cargo to Germany, we will get in touch with the the ocean carrier and most likely what we'll do is we'll we'll source the container will pick it up from a local rail ramp like Minneapolis. And then we will truck the container from Minneapolis to St Cloud for loading, we'll position it at at origin the client will load their material and then we'll send it back to the rail ramp in Minneapolis where it will go on rail to the U.S. port of export and then upon arrival to the port, it will be on the port to to load it onto the vessel. oversight there. And that's a good illustration of actually.
My question for you would be:since you know these containerships there are a lot of them right? And but at the same time, there's a lot of demand for that service. I mean, everything can go in, in a container that can fit into a container. Would that be correct? Exactly. Yes. You know, as far as dimensionally speaking, if it can fit into a container, a lot of times, putting material into container is the most economical option. But yes, there's, there's a ton of demand for it. So as of late, and kind of one thing that we've we've started to do is look at alternatives for container shipping methods. So one way to kind of expedite the process is to rather than the traditional way, like I had just mentioned, would be to pick up a container from the rail ramp, bring it to origin, send it back to the rail ramp, and rail it to the port of export, rather than then do it the conventional traditional method, what we've we've started to do a lot recently is pick up the material on an over the road trailer, like a dry van, or a flatbed or something of a sort. And then we bring it to the port. And by doing that we can kind of alleviate or avoid any sort of congestion that we might face it the rail. And then on top of that there's larger supply of equipment of containers and flatracks at the port rather than at the local inland rail depot. So we have a little bit more availability as far as equipment goes. So by partnering with our domestic team here, having them coordinate all of the trucking to the port of export, we can kind of we can save a little bit of time, we have the ability to get our hands on equipment that we might not necessarily or that we couldn't further inland. So by partnering with with them, we can like I said, kind of just expedite the the processes as a whole.
Eli:And working with a good provider who has these relationships is really important, especially with that when you're shipping can containerized cargo. I don't know if you can speak to this or not but I hear it a lot is like that maybe there's an ongoing, something of a container shortage, maybe manufacturers are not able to keep up with the the turnover of containers and the as they're aging, aging out. And then at the same time, marine vessel manufacturers and container vessel manufacturers are struggling to keep up for the last couple of years. There's an article I'll link in the description for you listeners interested in learning a little bit more about that stuff as well. But I mean, have you run into any of those issues where where you're, you know, container prices are skyrocketing?
Zach:Yeah it's it's been an ongoing battle for the last last two years or so. But yeah, you know, after we went through kind of the heart of COVID, and then once we started to see our way through, it seemed like, you know, shippers everywhere, just were ready to start sending out there cargo. So there was a high demand for these, for these containers. And then on top of that the the labor shortage is is really impacting everything as well there's, there's not enough guys at the port to get these containers offloaded from the vessel. And then you know, getting once once you get it offloaded from the vessel, you've got a completely another issue where, you know, there's not enough drivers, there's not enough local Dray guys to pull the container out of the port and bring it to wherever you need it, whether that be the final destination or just to a local warehouse, or anything like that. So it's tough to come by drivers, it's tough to come by just the equipment itself, the containers, and it's it's tough to come by space on the the actual ship. So with with all of those things, working against us. It's just it's created a really kind of drug out process.
Eli:Yeah, that's crazy. It seems like every single step in the supply chain, there's, there's some issue going on, whether it's a labor shortage and equipment, shortage, demand outpacing supply, or something like that. So yeah, it's definitely something to think about and work with your transportation providers to kind of, you know, avoid, however, however you can, and maybe you know, the cost of the services, the cost of the service, I suppose, at this point, since we mentioned that I just kind of want to touch touch on those flat racks. So what is a flatrack container? And is it used, you know, on the same same vessel as a container?
Zach:Sure, yeah. So a lot of these are all these these container container carriers, that take containers, they also have their own pool or equipment, pool of flat racks, and the flat racks and containers will all go on the same vessel, they can all be offloaded motor at the same ports. But essentially, a flat rack is like it's a it's a container without the sidewalls or an wall. So it's a it's a platform with posts on each corner. So the same piece of equipment that they use to pick a container, they use that that same attachment, that same picker to connect to the four posts and they would lift it on to the vessel in the same manner. So flat racks can be used by shippers that you know It's probably or maybe they have some bundled pipe or some bundled steel where it's, you know, 30-feet long or 35-feet long, it's really tough to stuff that into a container or push that into a container. So flatracks give you the the the ability to load them from the side the same way you would a flatbed trailer, right. It's also oftentimes used by clients that have cargo that may be a little wider than the internal dimensions of a container. So the internal dimensions of a container are about, you know, seven-foot, eight-inches. So if you have a piece of cargo that's 20-feet long, but it's only 10 or, but it's 10-feet wide. Obviously, we can't fit through the doors of a container there. So that would that can stow and be placed on to a flat rack very easily. And then it would just sail on the flat rack on the platform where the port in the ocean carriers, they're never actually picking up that that piece of cargo. It's just it's sitting on the platform on the flatrack and we're picking the flatrack with the cargo salon it from the the four posts.
Eli:In the container vessels, they have maybe a designated area for flatrack freight, or is it just any, they just place it on the vessel?
Zach:Yeah, they do. So it depends whether or not the cargo on side or on the flat rack displaces anything around it. So the slots in the holds on the container vessels are based on the cargo only being eight foot wide on the external. So if it's wider than than that, if it's 10 feet wide, then you're going to displace some containers, some flat racks next to you. So it's on the ocean carriers to figure out a stall plan that best accommodates what they have on board, what they're picking up where the outer gauge material on board is going and how quickly they can get it off. So yeah, there's there's a designated area, but it all depends, you know, what's, what's on those flat racks? And how much room it'll it'll take up on on either side?
Eli:Sure. And generally people that are using flat rack containers, is it for freight that's non, you know, would not be divisible? Right? Because I don't know, based on my understanding of, of how you're calculating the the prices, it largely depends on the amount of space you're taking up on the on the vessel itself, correct?
Zach:The so you know, regardless of what you put into a container, as long as it's legal weight, you'll pay the same cost, regardless of what you put on a flat rack. As long as it's within the legal dimensions, you'll you'll pay the same cost when when rates start to differ is, you know, when you put something on a flat rack, and it's nine feet wide, or it's 10-feet wide, or 11-feet wide, because then the ocean carriers have to determine how much you're displacing on either side of them. So if the cargo is 11-feet wide, they can't put a stack of containers next to you, instead of taking up that that one flat rack slot right now you're taking up two, because you have to account for the the container or the flatrack that could go next to that one.
Eli:Gotcha. Yeah, thanks for clearing that up. For sure. Let's jump into Breakbulk. Breakbulk is a term I hear a lot around the office actually, I think we maybe do a lot of it. It's those large pieces of cargo. Yeah, let's let's break it down a little.
Zach:It is on within ATS International, it is kind of our market focus or our backbone, if you will, it's it's the the types of cargoes that we we specialize in, we try to find and truthfully we enjoy doing. It requires a lot of critical thinking because there's, there are so many moving parts and it's it's our job to kind of link together all of those those moving parts. There's there's lots of different variables, a lot of different pricing components that go into one Breakbulk move or Breakbulk transaction, it can be difficult but fun still to kind of piece everything together.
Eli:Yeah, definitely. So we talked about the flat rack being okay, something that doesn't fit into a container, then you you maybe use a flat rack, when it makes sense. Breakbulk would be that step above right something that's that's much larger than a container ship would would transport?
Zach:So they're the another term or another name for kind of the breakbulk market is the project side. So in addition to a lot of the you know, yeah Breakbulk is is is great and very well suits very well accommodates the the giant Transformers The giant vessels that are tanks that you might have something that's you know, just way too big to fit into a container way too big to to put on to do a flatrack, and it might even be too heavy for the ramp of a row row vessel. So breakbulk can concern there breakbulk vessels breakbulk shipping method, it certainly can can accommodate the yes, the larger, heavier, really ugly pieces of cargo, right. But it's it also is good for the, you know, those clients that have a lot of volume, because we can ensure that we're getting all the cargo stowed onto one vessel for one voyage.
Eli:Sure. And when you say a lot of volume, that would be what would be an example of a lot of like something that you would send out on Breakbulk vessel that would have a lot of volumes, that's one thing that comes to mind is like all these wind projects that we see?
Zach:So just recently, or we're still kind of in the mix in the process of facilitating a larger project for one of my, or one of our clients down to one of the islands in the Caribbean, where they're going down to the island to do a little bit of work on the island and help improve the the infrastructure. So they have a lot of heavy machinery, construction equipment, they've got a ton of their their own containers, they have a bunch of kind of steel, bundled piping, and then yes, in addition to their rigs, their trailers, so we're using Breakbulk, where we could have sent, you know, all these fees, we could have sent the total units on one vessel, we could have put the containers on one vessel, but we're using a Breakbulk service because they have so much volume. And the Breakbulk service can accommodate the entire lot of cargo, we can get it picked up from the same port and delivered to the same port all on on one voyage.
Eli:Yeah, that's amazing. So you're getting everything, all the pieces that they need for whatever project they're doing, all to the island at the same time. So they're not waiting on anything, which could of course, throw them off cost them money and stuff like that. What makes a breakbulk carrier able to do that, more than than a roro or containerized?
Zach:Yeah, that's great question. So the, the breakbulk carriers, the majority of them, almost all of them do not operate on a fixed service or a liner service. So these breakbulk carriers go where the cargo is, they go where the projects are. So we we reach out to the breakbulk carriers, and we say, Hey, we're working on a project where we'd like you to pick up at this port and then deliver to this port, and the vessels are accommodating. And they kind of have the schedules Yes, where they they bounce around, they go with the projects, or they go with a cargo is, and so we can essentially, to some degree, we can name our port of origin or port of destination. So they they have the flexibility to pick us up wherever we need and bring us to wherever we would like.
Eli:Right? Okay, and are they generally larger vessels?
Zach:Yeah, all of the Breakbulk vessels, that that we utilize, have their own cranes on the ship, they're known as gears, where the the gear will, when it's, you know, going across the ocean, it's just kind of kind of stowed straight over the vessel. But once it's in the port, that the arm of that gear or the crane will swing alongside the vessel, pick up all the cargo and then swing it back into the hole. So the loading and unloading process and operations does take significantly longer where, you know, they can they can turn and load a railroad ship, probably within within a day, if not less, where loading and unloading a breakbulk ship probably could you know, it can take anywhere from two days to 10 days, depending on what's on the ship, and how was stowed, how it was loaded.
Eli:So it sounds like breakbulk has a couple of pretty specific use cases, right? So those large massive maybe a one off piece of cargo and then also for those projects and I think that we see a lot of that ATS international as well would you say? Generally does it take you a long time to arrange that that kind of space on an on a Breakbulk vessel you have to give them a lot of lead time. Hey, we were gonna sail from here to here. Here's how much space we're going to need on your vessel.
Zach:Yeah, a couple years ago, it'd be pretty easy to get space on one of these ships. What today, just with with everybody trying to buy up space and get from one place to another. We probably do have to wait probably about four weeks or so at the moment to get one of these vessels in position of course depending on the exact geographical location where we're picking Hang up and where we're going, it's okay. And it doesn't ever really hurt us, or impact us negatively. Because, you know, for example, I had mentioned the project we just did down to the, to the Caribbean. So there were a total of maybe 60 full truckloads that we had to get to the down to the port of export. So, you know, we we need time to get everything picked up, shuttled over to the port, there was a, there were a few pieces that needed to be created and palletizing package. So we needed we needed that time anyways, just to get everything to the to the port. And that's a lot. A lot of times that's how the the breakbulk projects work anyways, where it's very often do you have a breakbulk shipment where you're trying to pick it up tomorrow and get it on a vessel the next day, there's, there's usually longer lead times, you're planning a couple of weeks, a couple months out, because like it like I said, there are so many different variables, so many different pricing components that you need to make sure that every every T is crossed, and every i is dotted.
Eli:You understand that. And it's also important for all other stakeholders to understand how intense that that process is, and how much lead time it takes and, and oversight is needed. So yeah, we've we've run over these three, international transportation services, roro, containerized, flatrack, and then breakbulk. All of which are great options in specific use cases. And obviously, a great transportation provider would know when that is and would be able to make discernments as to what their customer actually needs. Right? These obviously have specific use cases, but it is from the outside also can be a confusing process. So when we're talking about picking an international transportation provider, maybe a freight forwarder would be the best route, what would you what would you suggest is kind of a wrap up question. People think about when choosing their own provider their own freight forwarder?
Zach:Yeah, do they have experience in handling these various different types of material, these these projects? And what exactly do they specialize in? And how does that jive with the type of material that that you have? Right? So there are freight forwarders and carriers out there that really specialize in the breakbulk out a gauge over dimensional types of cargos where if if your company is, you know, if you produce textiles or something of of that source, then sort then there may be a breakbulk carrier probably or forwarder that specializes in breakbulk isn't isn't necessarily for for you. So the good thing about ATS is that we we have a great deal of experience handling all sorts of these these cargoes these these materials where we're not necessarily pigeon holed just to one specific type of commodity. Just we've we've been doing this for a long time. So throughout the years, we've kind of we've been able to become experts in all all fields, in pretty much all different types of vessels and identifying what what specific what type of vessel or transportation concept needs to be pieced together, depending on the type of cargo, the if there's a required delivery date, when the cargo is going to be available for pickup. Is there any sort of creating or packaging that needs to be done prior, etc.
Eli:It's important to have someone who has the expertise, the capabilities, maybe the in-house resources to get all these things lined up their relationships with carriers perhaps. And those kinds of things are all important to consider when you're selecting an international freight forwarder for sure, especially since you know rules and regulations change, transportation methods change everything. Everything seems to fluctuate so much. But yeah, man, I appreciate you coming on today.
Zach:Yeah, thank you. It's been it's a blast.
Eli:Yeah, it's been a blast. It seems like you have a really, you know, pretty cool job as a freight forwarder getting to see all these different things and work on these projects. And no, two days are the same.
Zach:No, I really enjoy it. And that's, that's probably my my favorite part. Yes, no, no two days are the same keeps you on your toes. And like I said, a lot of the clients and prospects that come to us, they, they don't really give us a direction as to how they want to move. They just say you know, here's what we have, we need to get it from here to here and it allows us the opportunity to kind of think and process and go through all the different types of vessels that that could be used. Going back to your your point on relationships. We do since we do kind of touch and handle a little bit of of everything. We have the relationships with all the big players and all the different ocean carriers whether it be a container guy or a row, row guy, the Breakbulk vessel carriers we've we've got we've we've got friends in all places. So my I love yes coming into work every day and kind of piecing together a solution that is catered towards the client and allows them to be successful.
Eli:Definitely really interesting role you have so appreciate you coming on we wil,l I'm sure, have you on again, there are plenty of other things we can talk about international transportation tell you that.
Zach:Yes. We're just scraping the surface.
Eli:Yeah, just barely. All right. Thanks.
Zach:Thanks, man.
Eli:You have been listening to beyond the road, the transportation industry podcast produced by Anderson trucking service. If you like what you heard here today, make sure to follow along wherever you listen to podcasts, so you don't miss our next episode, which we publish every Tuesday. For more information on international shipping services, via marine vessel like ro ro containerize, and Breakbulk transportation. I have linked a couple of articles in the show notes below which I invite you to check out as well as that link to ATS International's page. They specialize in a lot of different things. And if you are looking for a provider, I would invite you to check them out. They've got some real expertise and competency over on that team. Very impressive. For more in transportation industry related information and content head over to the ATS Learning Hub a atsinc.com/learning-hub. also linked in the show notes below. On Learning Hub you will find a comprehensive library of answers to transportation's most common questions in the form of articles, videos, podcasts, downloadable tools, infographics, case studies, and more. All created to help you become the supplier that always delivers for its customers. Topics covered on the Learning Hub include customs clearance process when importing freight into the United States. Seven keys to receiving competitive and effective project freight quotes. How does your freight destination affect the price of moving it drayage service explained what is it? How is it done and what does it cost and so much more. So invite you to check that out. Finally, thanks for sticking with me. I hope you enjoyed this episode. And I hope to speak to you again soon on another episode of Beyond The Road the transportation industry podcast.