59. Elevating Your Voice: Strategies for Impactful Communication

When you hear the words public speaking, do you run the other way? Well, our guest today might change your perception on the way you look at public speaking and dare I say, even look at it as a fun experience where you get to show up as your authentic self whilst providing value to your audience. 

Our guest today is Theo Kapodistrias, a multi-award-winning lawyer, based in Hobart, Tasmania. He is also an award-winning speaker, trainer and public speaking coach, running his own business www.theokap.com.au. He is the General Counsel at Evergen - an energy management software company.

On our journey with Theo, we explore his career transition from an in-house lawyer at the University of Tasmania to his current role as General Counsel at Evergen, and his role as a public speaking coach. His passion for public speaking was ignited in high school and has since then fueled his mission to empower individuals and business owners to communicate their value effectively. He takes us behind the scenes of TEDx Hobart, an initiative he started to shine a spotlight on the remarkable people in Tasmania and inspire others to share their ideas.

In this episode Theo:

• reframes how we look at public speaking;
• provides practical tips and mindset shifts on overcoming our fear of speaking 
• Talks about the power of building trust and connection through communicating authentically; and
• shares how we can communicate more effectively in the workplace. 

Without further ado, let's dive into this episode and meet Theo!

Connect with our Guest:

LinkedIn: https://www.linkedin.com/in/theo-kapodistrias/

Instagram: @theokap88

Facebook: https://www.facebook.com/theokap.com.au

Website: www.theokap.com.au.

Resources: Free Ultimate Presentation Guide HERE

Online course: https://www.theokap.com.au/communicate-for-impact 

Connect with the host:

Website: https://marijaduka.com/

LinkedIn: https://www.linkedin.com/in/marija-duka/ 

Instagram: @marija.duka

Join The Unbound Lawyer Program HERE.

Transcript

Speaker 1: 0:06

Welcome to the Career Confidence podcast, the podcast for driven lawyers wanting to step out of the traditional path and build fulfilling and purposeful careers. I'm your host, maria Ducar, legal counsel and career coach, helping you navigate your career with intention and confidence. In this podcast, we don't show away from having real conversations about topics that matter to us. Driven AF go-getters From manifesting your dream career, negotiating the salary you deserve, creating your personal brand, knowing when it's time to pivot. We cover these topics and so much more. You ready, let's dive into today's episode. When you hear the words public speaking, do you run the other way? Well, our guests today might change your perception on the way you look at public speaking and, dare I say, even look at it as a fun experience where you get to show up as your authentic self whilst providing value to your audience.

Speaker 1: 1:11

Our guest today is Theo Capadistrias, a multi-award winning lawyer based in Hobart, tasmania. He is also an award winning speaker, trainer and public speaking coach, running his own business, which you can find on wwwtheocapwithaKcomau. He is the general counsel at Evergen, an energy management software company. He has been recognised for his work in the legal and community space, winning several awards, and has been named one of Australia's most influential lawyers by the Australasian Lawyer Magazine in both 2022 and 2023. He is a non-executive director of the Association of Corporate Council Australia, also known as ACC, and Business Events Tasmania. In ACC Australia, he is also the Tasmanian divisional president and chair of the sole legal officer special interest group. In 2021, theo took on the role as executive director and licensee of TEDx Hobart and is the host of a podcast titled Craft Messages that Matter, and in 2023, he delivered his own TEDx talk at TEDx Katumba titled Lessons from my Ethnic Lunchbox.

Speaker 1: 2:31

In this episode, theo provides us with a reframe on how we look at public speaking. He provides us with practical tips and mindset shifts on overcoming our fear of speaking. He talks about the power of building trust and connection through communication and how to show up more authentically. He also talks to us about how we can communicate more effectively in the workplace so we can build trust and have a positive working relationship. Now, without further ado, let's dive into this episode and meet Theo. Hey, theo, welcome to the Career Confidence podcast. I'm so excited to dive into today's conversation with you about all things public speaking and getting to know you more as well.

Speaker 2: 3:19

Thank you to Honored Deke here and I'm really excited to have our chat.

Speaker 1: 3:23

Amazing. Now would you please tell the listeners who Theo is and what do you do?

Speaker 2: 3:29

I mean, what a big question. Yeah, so I am. I'm based here in Hobart, tassie, and always have things. I'm a big advocate for my little island, tassie. In Tasmania, I'm the general counsel for a company called Evergene, which is an energy management software company, and I've only worked as an in-house lawyer, and I'm sure we'll dig into more about my career soon. Anyway, in addition to that, I run a business as a speaker, speaking coach, trainer, workshop facilitator, and I have an online course as well by businesstheocabcomau, and I'ma director of the Association of Corporate Accounts Australia, the in-house legal association globally, and the Australian arm of it, and I'm the executive director and licensee of TEDx Hobart as well.

Speaker 1: 4:25

Wow, Well, so you're a very quiet person that doesn't really have much going on, in other words.

Speaker 2: 4:32

I'm very shy. Don't talk to anyone, don't do anything. You know You've got a lot going on.

Speaker 1: 4:39

I love that. I love that. I love how diverse your career is and I'd love to dive into that in more detail in this next part of our chat, because I really love showcasing my guest diverse careers and that it's not all just about climbing the corporate ladder, it's a partnership and all of that because that doesn't necessarily suit everyone and the legal profession really is vastly changing and growing. So, yeah, I'd love to chat more about your diverse career. So would you please walk us through your career journey? Where or began? What led you to where you are at the moment?

Speaker 2: 5:16

Yeah, sure. So I kicked off my career as an in-house lawyer. So once I graduated from my Bachelor of Arts and Bachelor of Law, then doing my graduate diploma of legal practice, I think, I was admitted in August of 2014. Not long after that, I was like all right, well, I don't have a job, what do I do? Let's just do the scattergun apply, as we all did, I'm sure, at the time, and a couple months later I landed a job at the University of Tasmania so I never left at that point, working in their legal and risk team as a lawyer. So kicked off my career there and it felt very comfortable being back on campus, knowing that there's so many of the lecturers and people that I interacted with as a student. We're now going to be my clients, which is so strange, very strange for a fresh-faced 23-year-old to go back into the place where they've been for five and a half years doing a double degree and grad dip, then being put back into that space now as their legal advisor. At first it was a bit strange. I thought, well, I don't know what this is going to be like, but I really grew to relish that opportunity because it was such a diverse environment. Universities are huge, huge, huge, huge businesses with so many different components. So I got to experience everything under the sun, from tree-hitter car in the car park to someone running naked in the library. You know more graphic and painful things, such as, you know, sexual assault on campus and responding to, like, public inquiries on that, and really large commercial deals, such as you know, I was the lawyer for Australia's largest cooperative research centre called the Blue Economy CRC, so helping to set that up and just other really interesting research projects, such as a Brock lobster project where you know, the government funded $25 million into creating a Brock lobster research hub, me then doing all the agreements under that for what the collaboration will look like between all the different parties international parties, local. So it was a huge role. It was such a big, big, big, big, big role and really grateful for that opportunity to jump start my career and really dig into that.

Speaker 2: 7:43

Not long after COVID actually so I was in that role for about six years and not long after, I guess, the COVID thing happened an opportunity came along for me to become the inaugural general counsel for a global cyber security company that called UpGuard and they had, you know, had a base in California, in Sydney, but they were moving a lot of their operations to Hobart randomly enough, and the CEO and I had a bit of a conversation, initially on LinkedIn, which then turned into a job interview, which turned into a two week recruitment process, which then turned into a job offer. A couple of weeks before my 30th birthday, I got offered a job as a sole GC for a global company and me, at 29, thought, oh my God, what is this? Am I a lunatic? And maybe I was, but once again, an amazing opportunity to get in and create my own sort of legal function, and being the, I guess, head of legal but also head of governance, risk compliance and privacy officer for a global company was such an amazing opportunity. So I got to you know, really hone in on my operations, experience, figuring out how I can actually set this up, implementing tech, implementing the process for how things are actually done. It's the first time the company had ever had a lawyer, so I had to really come in and build relationships, create the persona that I'm there to help, being enabled for the business, and show that I could be as useful and helpful as possible. Like I said, an amazing opportunity, an amazing role, but it got so much for this one person to do so much.

Speaker 2: 9:24

The company grew and expanded really rapidly. So I think when I started we were at 50 people and the time I left, nearly two years later, it was at 150 or so. So it was very big and my hours were kind of crazy. So I'd start very early in the morning and then finish off very, very late at night to deal with all the different jurisdictions, and pretty much every Saturday I'd be working as well. So what was my little sleep in day turned into? Getting up at 5.30 deal on my phone calls from America and a little California friends who all amazing people probably didn't realize the fact that I was in a different time zone sometimes and just wanted to do their best and close as many deals as they could. So with that I thought I want to step back a little bit. I want to do something a bit easier, maybe narrow the scope of geography. And then I became the started off as the senior contracts officer at tourism Tasmania.

Speaker 2: 10:25

That's an interesting role it was. So it was mostly when I started just looking at contracts and procurement, but, given my experience, the role turned into me being the legal and commercial manager for the department. So I was getting the opportunity to create a role that was really based around my skills, helping with things such as the agency's legal compliance generally, providing assistance for our partnerships, our strategy, our commercial activity and it was a lot of fun. It was really really good. But I think, because it was so narrowed back from what I was doing, I was feeling a bit like, oh, I feel a little lost, I don't feel like I was going to my full potential. And then my current role popped up.

Speaker 2: 11:15

I started on LinkedIn and did the quick apply for let's just give it a go, and then once again throwing my hand in the ring for an opportunity, then turned into a recruitment process a couple of conversations, reference checks, all that stuff and being given a job. So I've been now at Evergen for about seven months and, once again, I'm the first lawyer the company's ever had, so being able to set up the function and create what the company looks like from its legal operations perspective and just helping the company to be as efficient as they can and do everything in the most compliant way possible. Once again, just having so much fun, just testing my skillset, playing around in the industry as well and having a lot of fun, having a lot of fun with the very smart people that I get to support.

Speaker 1: 12:11

That's really cool. I love I said having a lot of fun like you really have that. You know happy, go, lucky, energy about the way you approach your career, which is, I think, why you are where you are, because you've just put your hat in the ring, decided to give things a go, work it out as you go, not really having too much of a strict plan of how it has to look like, and you've really navigated that in such a great way. That's really worked out for your career and you've really designed your career like to suit you and your skills and what your interests are. So that's, that's fantastic.

Speaker 2: 12:46

I love that. Yeah, thank you. I think I did have one rule, though. When I was working at the university, I said to myself early on I don't think I should be working here when I'm 30, that's what I said to myself. I said I think I've been here too long as a student and then as an employee. I need to expand and grow. And it was just funny that, yeah, two weeks before I turned 30, I landed the other job.

Speaker 2: 13:08

So I was like hey, go, could they put it out there, it's in the world and it happened. So that was yeah, that was funny, it doesn't mean rule. I really put to myself, though, at the time.

Speaker 1: 13:19

Yeah, I think it's good to have those intentional thoughts and those manifestations, because you know you want to grow and expand and you clearly have a growth mindset, like with everything else that you're doing on top of being a sole general counsel which we'll also dive into, because I'm really interested in that as well but, yeah, clearly you have that growth mindset. That's important to you. It's essentially like a non-negotiable for you. So that's that's why you clearly put that intention out there about not being there Before you reach 30. So that's, yeah, I think that's a good thing. I think that's great to have certain like non-negotiables and rules around your career and then otherwise, like allowing it to be a fun process. And I also love how you reached out to people on LinkedIn and like created those relationships and that's then led to Jobs. I think that's fantastic too. Just putting yourself out there. That's a key lesson, I think, for my audience. Rather than just waiting for things to kind of fall into your lap, just there, go for it for yourself out there.

Speaker 2: 14:18

Yeah, yeah, I think it's important because once people get to know who you are and they understand, oh, you're actually a really easy person to work with, then that helps a lot, like, for example, I guess, with the tourism Tasmanian job.

Speaker 2: 14:29

I saw it pop up and I called the hiring manager and I had a conversation just so she could get to know me a little bit. Yeah, you know, that was really really useful. And then with that job as well, I actually had come across the CEO before and I chatted to him briefly and you know we were having a chat at like a networking event and I think it was not long before I chose to apply. I actually said to him you know, I think I'm gonna apply for this role. I saw it will be really fun to work together and he was like, yeah, sure, okay, um, so I don't know that to help that all in the process, but definitely, you know, building those connections and relationships. So then, when I could, when I came in and he was CEO at the time, he was like oh, here's here, cool, welcome.

Speaker 1: 15:13

So I mean, I think it is important and key, like developing those relationships and you know, without necessarily having that intention of Applying or getting something straight away, like, but those things naturally come about Because you're just putting yourself out there, meeting people, being yourself, introducing yourself, and then Naturally, when you do apply your, your name will be familiar to them because you know they can put a face to the name and they know who you are, they know what your energy is like and your essence and all of that. So I'd like, I'd love, to work with you, of course.

Speaker 2: 15:45

Yeah, yeah, exactly.

Speaker 1: 15:47

And how did your passion for public speaking come about? Love to now move into that entrepreneurial side of you as well. You're running the TEDx Hobart and all that like let's see a dive into it. Say, how did that all come about?

Speaker 2: 16:01

so I'd say my Public, I love for public speaking kind of kicked off, I'd say during high school, when I was, I was a drama nerd. I I love doing like performing, being in front of people. And when I Got older, you know I was throughout law school and you know those opportunities that come along, one of the things that I always thought was I don't think I'm gonna go into the world of acting, but I'd love to be able to speak at events because it kind of ticks that box and tickles that little fancy that I have Performing in a way. But it's the performance, but it is being in front of people and it is, you know, presenting yourself and your thoughts. So I guess, unintentionally, once again, when I was, I'd say, in the first few years of my career, I was given an opportunity to submit to present at a conference in New Zealand, the Australasian Research Management Society annual conference, which will be held in Wellington that year, and myself and a couple of colleagues from Another department said well, how about we put in a submission to speak on this thing we've been working on because we Transformed the way that their office and the legal office Actually work together.

Speaker 2: 17:16

We, rather than just doing basic Way for the request to come in email back. We created like an agile framework of alright, let's get everyone that needs to be together into the broom, let's put the tasks up, let's figure out the workflow and what's dependent upon what. And we thought, oh my god, with this process that we've implemented, it's actually really cool, really worthy of sharing with other people, because maybe they can get into the habit of doing this too. So we put in a submission and then, hey presto, we get asked to speak. So off we are shipped over to New Zealand to speak at an event.

Speaker 2: 17:54

And it was so much fun and that was sort of my little taster being on stage for 20 minutes talking to a group of 400 people and I thought, oh, I love this, I want to keep going. So, no, long after that, I started getting more opportunities to present. So I get started getting like taps on the shoulder of fear Can you speak on this panel there? Can you come to this conference? Can you do this? Can you do that? We'll pay for your flights, they're your com. And I thought I love it, I love this and I just want to keep doing it. So then I decided to turn that into my business. So I created a little. I'm gonna call it little.

Speaker 1: 18:28

I was about to call it out on that. I was gonna put my coaching out of not little.

Speaker 2: 18:33

No, but I always, I always say, oh, it's a little side hustle, no, it's a little side hustle, it's a thing that I do, it's a passion of mine. It's more than a hobby, because I get annoyed and people call it a hobby too. It's a business where I get to help individuals, entrepreneurs, professional service providers and business owners Demonstrate their value through their voice and through their words. So I've created a number of different keynotes and workshops that I where I help people to Do all this stuff, and I kicked off and started my business in 2020, which was probably the worst time ever To do that, but I guess actually this time yeah.

Speaker 2: 19:15

Yeah, the best time doesn't get me an opportunity to really refine my marketing and actually Slow into it. I didn't have to rush and say, oh, I need to do this and do that. By this point I just could say I'm giving this thing a go and I'm gonna just go at it slowly, at my own pace, to see what happens. And you know, over three years on, it's doing its thing and I'm, yeah, happily integrating that with my day-to-day life. Now I Love that.

Speaker 1: 21:05

I love that so much. That is so cool. And then you also Started Hobart TEDx you got a license for that to do that and spread your passion for speaking and Essentially opening up the stage to other speakers to be able to get that taste of what you got right, like that's really cool, yeah, yeah.

Speaker 2: 21:24

Yeah, yeah. So TEDx Hobart was an opportunity for for me to, I guess, showcase Tasmania, because we're a little island but we do so much here and it annoys me that there are so many people who are doing all these incredible things but they don't talk about it and they get really shy and they hide away. Yeah, and that for me, it's a note. Let's highlight the amazing things that you're doing and myself and my other speaking coach will work with you To build that confidence to speak on stage, because you don't need the experience to do it, you just need the idea that you've got. So let's use your brain and we'll give you the skills and you can do it and it's worked every time.

Speaker 1: 22:08

I love that, I really love that.

Speaker 1: 22:09

It's so like when you implement these simple tools To extract silence message and you just like you empower them with practical tools right, then it just becomes so easy if but some people they're so caught up in that fear. That's what I'd love to talk about now, because there's a lot of fear that comes with Public speaking, sharing your message. I think there's that fear of being seen right like saying something that you're passionate about and Maybe having that fear of like what will people think of me? That really doesn't allow us to say how can we actually put that in a practical way, whereas when you come in and you don't have the emotional attachment and you have all of these expertise and tools, you can easily assist someone to be able to extract their Messaging and empower them to be able to just speak without that fear and overwhelm. So what are some basic tips? As you know someone that is wanting to overcome that fear, to Get up on stage and speak more confidently the first thing I like to tell people is Consider this reframe.

Speaker 2: 23:13

Don't think of a presentation as a presentation. Think of it as a conversation. Every time we speak, it's public speaking, whether it's one person, two, four, twelve, four hundred, it doesn't matter. When we think of a presentation, we go into this real formal approach of oh, I have to do this and I have to do that. If you think of your presentation as a conversation, it drops, I guess, that formality and you get to get on stage being yourself and the language changes when we present. So, rather than oh, hi, everyone, my name is and I'm going to do this, no, we don't need that. You can just get on stage, start speaking, presenting. If people don't know who you are because it's a brand new audience, you can say hey, I am my name. But I guess, in terms of when we're speaking to the audience, you can say what do you think when you go outside and you see blah, blah, blah? What does everyone think when that language, when you can treat it as speak like a general conversation, it just sounds more natural, you feel more comfortable and it doesn't feel as intimidating. So that's one tip. That's an important reframe. I like to help people with.

Speaker 2: 24:41

Another one is we need to think of speaking as a service to the audience. So it's not about us. It's not about us at all. We're just the vessel for this really cool idea that we're going to share, but it's a service to the audience. We're getting back to these people. So when we change the focus from us to them, we stop worrying about how we might appear. Are we good enough, any of that stuff because we absolutely are. We're there to share an important message and we're giving back to these people. So we need to focus on the wonderful people that are there listening to us and every time we speak, we're providing that thing of value and we know that we can be valuable and be useful and be important to those listening, because there is something, there'll be something for someone. Everyone in the room might not love us, it's fine, they don't need to but if we're helping one person, we've done hapes. We've done absolutely more than enough.

Speaker 1: 25:43

That's so true. I love that, I really love that, and I personally get nervous as well, like speaking, and I love that reframe, especially around this. It's not about you, it's about the audience and what value you can provide to them, and shifting that focus really does help, because it's not about how am I looking? What are they going to think? Are they going to like me? How do I sound? By eye eye, you know it's all eye, but yeah, when you're like, how can I deliver this message so that it provides the most value to my audience that are here to learn something today? It's, yeah, just so much more liberating.

Speaker 2: 26:17

It is. It really is yes.

Speaker 1: 26:19

And how can you be more yourself? Like, how can you communicate more authentically? Because, as you said before, like when you get up on stage, you automatically go into this I don't know very formal professional mode, and especially in the legal right, like we're so used to speaking in a certain way, how can you, even if it's just like showing a little bit of yourself to someone, to like feel a bit more comfortable in showing up as themselves, like, yeah, what? How can we be more out of ourselves when we're speaking?

Speaker 2: 26:48

I guess what's so important when we are speaking is the concept of authenticity, and it's one of the things I'm really, really passionate about, because if we're not ourselves when we're on stage and speaking, we're not going to be trusted because people won't know who they're listening to. So if we're not authentic, we're not speaking in a way that's natural to us, we're not talking about things that are what we would ordinarily chat about, then we're not going to come across as genuine. So I think we inject little bits of who we are into how we present and, of course, as human beings we are not going to be able to use this right. So we can adjust to when we're in the boardroom to when we're at the pub. It's not going to be the same and that's normal. But when we're on stage we can also be a chameleon, but we still can be ourselves.

Speaker 2: 27:39

So there is something we can show about who we are when we're on stage. It could be injecting a personal story. It can be using language that we would ordinarily use because we're treating it as a personal situation. It doesn't have to be looked at as this big formal opportunity that it might actually be. It's just about giving us and being who we are to the crew, and I think that's a really important thing when we are on stage, to know that it is okay to share who we are and to talk about us as people and our experiences if that's relevant to what we're talking about, because that's the uniqueness of the individual who's speaking. Otherwise, you could just get anyone.

Speaker 1: 28:25

That's exactly right and that's what people come. They'll come to say you because of you and your message, and you're the way you show up. Like you might have I don't know a signature cool blazer that you wear, like a sparkly blazer or something like that could be you and your personal branding, or it could be using very personal stories about your experience, about something that people can relate to. But, yeah, I love that. I think it's really important to be authentic so you can create that connection and when you create that connection, you can provide more value to the audience.

Speaker 2: 28:56

Exactly, exactly, because once you build that connection, you build that trust, and once you build that trust and people want to work with you, they want to listen to whatever it might be. So it's all about trust at the end of the day, and we can build a lot of trust and really good relationships with our communication.

Speaker 1: 29:11

Absolutely, and I mean, public speaking is one way of communicating and, as you said before, public speaking it's not necessarily just getting up on stage, it's not the only way to public speak, but what are some ways that we can communicate, because it all comes down to communication? What are ways that we can communicate better in the workplace? Because I feel like in the workplace is where, when there are those communication challenges, is when problems arise. So, yeah, what are some ways we can communicate better and what are the biggest challenges that you see when it comes to communication in the workplace?

Speaker 2: 29:50

Yeah, I think one thing in particular for lawyers. I'm not even going to say, I guess, a legal focus podcast. Lawyers have this way of often speaking in a very technical, robotic way with their clients. So, whether that's in-house or private practice, lawyers have a way of just sounding once again inauthentic and not necessarily as helpful as it could be. And one of the things I talk about when I speak is you could be the absolute world's genius at a particular topic. You could be a 10 out of 10 in technical skills, but if your ability to communicate that expertise is a 3 out of 10, how will the world view you? Because you are only good as your ability to communicate. So we need to be able to communicate and share information in a way that is tailored for the people that we're talking to. I always think about if I'm dealing with marketing colleagues, I'm not going to tell them oh, you need the personal information consent form before you can interview these people. I'll say I'll communicate the way that they understand it to be. We're talent release, we're secure that talent, and then I'm communicating to them in a language that they understand. So when we can tailor what we say to people for that very particular audience that we know, then that's going to help us a lot to build that trust, to sound more natural and authentic and also build that connection with people. I guess other tips for the workplace, particularly with email, things can just sound foul. It's just not the nicest means necessary to talk. I think keeping email as short as possible and in a presentable format is really important, and ensuring that we actually answer people's questions if we're asked something.

Speaker 2: 31:48

There's a method I like to teach people. It's the what. So what now? What? Method, and I use that for when I guess. When I ask a question, I then break it down into the what component being hey, this is what you've asked me, this is what you need help with. The so what would be the application of the law? So, based on what you've said, this is what I understand and this is what we could do in that situation. And then now, what is the call of action of? Well, here's the thing you need to decide on. Do you want to do it this way? Do you want to do it that way? My recommendation would be this Let me know if this hasn't provided you a way forward. So having structures in place can support us really well in the workplace to communicate more effectively as well.

Speaker 1: 32:37

I, like very structured persons are like when there's like structured way of like doing something, that just simplifies it, it's so much easier. Oh, I love structure.

Speaker 2: 32:47

And one thing I'll share is I've created the ultimate presentation structure guide. So free download. I'll share the link so anyone can just grab it. It's basically a tool for anyone to use for if they do have a presentation to say all right, well, if I've got a presentation, all right, well, if I've got a presentation, I'll figure out the content, but how do I structure it? That's what I've done. I made you something so you can just plug and play and play around with that structure.

Speaker 1: 33:12

Well put that in the show notes for everyone to access, because I know that's valuable. There's lots of people listening that are like how am I going to present on this thing? And there you go, theo's got the answer for you.

Speaker 2: 33:24

How good I love it.

Speaker 1: 33:25

I'll download it myself too, so I also structured my next presentation. Thanks, theo.

Speaker 2: 33:31

No worries, this is awesome.

Speaker 1: 33:32

So much value already. Theo, as I asked everyone that comes onto the podcast is what does career confidence mean to you and what's one practical tip you can offer to my audience to build their confidence in their career?

Speaker 2: 33:48

I think career confidence for me is actually believing in the skills that I have and understanding that I am capable of doing stuff, because so many times we come across opportunities or things that we don't know, don't have the answer to, but we all have the ability to figure it out and to just get it done. And if we don't, we have support. There are so many people who are willing to help you, help each other. I know I've built just an amazing network of other in-house lawyers who I can call up and ask for support and help anytime that I've got a question and they can do the same to me, and I think it's so valuable that we utilize the connections that we have and it is okay to reach out and ask for help if we need.

Speaker 2: 34:40

So career confidence is about, I guess, believing in yourself but knowing that you're not alone and there can be confidence in that as well. And I guess, with confidence, something that Kate Cashman, who's the speaker coach with TEDx, I hope I always says is it's not always about confidence, it's really about courage. So once we build that courage and you build that courage a little bit more, a little bit more, that's what we get to the point of being confident because we've built that courage, so we're just going to take that first step. So if we're not necessarily confident in our abilities and we're not sure if we should ask someone, you just need to reach out to one person and then it becomes easier to then reach out to the next if you need to.

Speaker 1: 35:20

I love that. Actually, I don't think anyone on the show has said that about that confidence is in reaching out to someone, having the courage to reach out to someone and asking for assistance. I think lawyers naturally like. We feel like we have to do things alone and like we have to know all the answers, otherwise we might look weak or whatever. Whatever lie we tell ourselves. But there's so much power in community and you're an example of this. This is how you've built your career as well. Like being sole counsellor is not an easy thing to do by any stretch of the imagination, but you've gone out and sought that community to be able to thrive in your career and develop and grow.

Speaker 2: 36:04

Yeah, I guess. On the community piece, I think I've been really lucky through the Association of Corporate Council Australia that there is such an amazing group of in-house lawyers who are willing to support each other and I'm the chair and developed the sole legal officer special interest group within ACC Australia. So we've got a group of people who meet monthly to just have a conversation to say you know what's been going on in your world, is there anything you want to talk about? Not revealing anything confidential. But if you need got a general question that you want to ask the group, then why don't we just thrash it out and have a convo about how someone would approach that or what someone else might do? And it's so awesome to be able to have that network and bundle of people that you can just have support to ask any question if you need.

Speaker 1: 36:56

Is that just for sole legal counsel or is it open to all in-house?

Speaker 2: 37:01

lawyers, it's sole legal counsel in small groups. So I think there's different sort of special interest groups within ACC Australia, which is great. So they've got like a LT, which is like the legal technology group. So if you're looking at legal technology, there's a group there, there's in-house in health, there's, I think, legal leaders, law graduates group, new to in-house. You know, it's really great to create these sort of segments to the association where you can say is there anyone who's interested in this or does anyone know about that? Can we create a community on these sorts of things, which is really cool. Yeah, I guess within the development there's different state divisions as well. So if a more general group of people that are within your own state that you can hang out with or ask questions of are there and available too, that's really cool.

Speaker 1: 37:52

I think it's really important to have that support and I feel like that's what in-house does really well. Compared to private practice, there's a lot more of a community feel and more like open information sharing and all of that. There's a lot of that resource that you just share with the audience as well. Before we wrap up, is there something that I haven't asked you that you would love to talk about? Anything that you're excited about and you like, yeah, anything. Essentially, this is the stage is yours.

Speaker 2: 38:22

Oh, wow, what can I say? I haven't thought about this, but I mean, look, I think we often don't value or necessarily think about the fact that public speaking is such an important skill, but we often don't value it, actually work on it. We often think, oh no, I want to learn about privacy law, I want to learn about insurance law, but we don't work on ourselves. And communication, public speaking, presentation skills is one of those things that we generally think we're good at but we don't actually go to the effort to work on. So if you get the opportunity to just pull yourself out there to give it a go, to work on it, to try and to practice and do all that stuff, then I say, do it. You can do it in really cheap, accessible ways as well.

Speaker 2: 39:11

You know, I'll give myself a little plug. I have an online course available called Communicative Impact, which looks at public speaking and presentation skills and some really useful communication building skills as well. If anyone is interested in that, it's one payment for lifetime access to a heap of resources that look at the who, what, how and why of public speaking and presentations. So if anyone is interested and wants to do that, then have a look. I'm sure you'll put the link in the show. No, it's so good so people can play around and have a look at that too, if they so desire.

Speaker 1: 39:49

Absolutely no, I definitely will. I think that is an invaluable resource and you're right, People don't spend that time working on themselves and their skills around communication, public speaking and that presentation piece. But it is so important and not just like if someone's thinking, oh, I don't want to be a public speaker, it's not about that, it's the way you just show up and present yourself to the world, like how you communicate with a potential client, how you communicate with your employer, how you communicate with your colleagues, your partner, your anything, even in day to day life, like it really is a skill that transcends all areas of our life.

Speaker 2: 40:29

It's a leadership skill as well. So often we look at political leaders and we have no idea about their policies or what they're about. We judge them instantly on their ability to communicate. So if they can walk into a room and they speak really well, we're like what an amazing leader.

Speaker 1: 40:46

Yeah, I know, without even looking into it. I know that too. It's true. But what you said before about the trust, like they build that trust on how they're showing up and you're like, oh, I can really like I feel like I trust them or relate to them, or they're so confident I'm going to listen to them, I'm going to lean in and, you know, tune in to what they're saying.

Speaker 2: 41:07

Yeah, I guess the next example is you know someone I just sent to Ardern. I have no idea what that lady did in New Zealand, but I love her. I love watching her. She's such a great speaker.

Speaker 1: 41:22

She is. You're so right it is. Yeah, that's why it's so important to truly work on those skills. It really does. It differentiates you from someone else, like if you are maybe in private practice and you're wanting to get clients, like it will differentiate you from the next person that's pitching to you. Know that client as well. So, yeah, very, very important skill set. Now, theo, before we wrap up, here's how my audience, where you hang out online so they can connect with you, get to know you more, reach out to you DM, you're all the things.

Speaker 2: 41:54

Yeah, so I hang out on LinkedIn. They're quite a lot, so you can find me there. You can find me on Insta TheoCAP88 is my handle. Where else I've got like a Facebook like page. You can find me there if you so desire. You can have a look at my Twitter and threads. Nothing exciting there, but it's the same handle as my. Oh sorry, so call Twitter anymore my ex, my ex yeah.

Speaker 1: 42:20

So what do you call it? They're not tweets anymore there. What are they? Ex, my ex doesn't tell them.

Speaker 2: 42:28

I don't know, so it's a weird one, but I hang out there too. Same handle as my Instagram, and you can find me on my website as well.

Speaker 1: 42:40

Thank you so much for being on the show. I loved all of the valuable tips that you provided to my audience, and everything that you said is so relatable. The way you communicate it's so digestible and so easy to understand and relatable as well. So, yeah, thank you so much for your time.

Speaker 2: 42:57

No, thanks for having me. It's been awesome.

Speaker 1: 42:59

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