66. Engagement, Resilience and Wellbeing for Optimal Performance
Feb 28, 2024
Marija Duka
Tough times call for leaders to rise up to the challenge and encourage a sustainable and thriving workplace for their teams. But how exactly can you do this from a practical perspective?
Our guest today will be providing us with lots of insight and practical tips on how you can create a thriving work environment, encouraging engagement and optimal performance without the burnout.
Anna Glynn is a speaker, educator and coach on thriving workplaces. Anna sees her key role as translating research into relatable strategies for organisations to empower their people and performance to thrive. Anna’s mission is to create workplaces where people can be at their best each day and are better off having worked there!
Having worked in the financial services industry for a decade including leading national sales teams, Anna understands what it’s like to manage people and be responsible for driving growth in the workplace.
In this episode, Anna and I chat about:
why it’s more important than ever before to have strong leaders and how they can lead their teams to thrive during ever-changing environments;
how we can individually lead ourselves during difficult times;
ways to keep engagement high amongst teams to ensure optimal performance; and
So much more!
Let's dive into this conversation with Anna Glynn.
Tough times call for leaders to rise up to the challenge and encourage a sustainable and thriving workplace for their teams. But how exactly can you do this from a practical perspective?
Our guest today will be providing us with lots of insight and practical tips on how you can create a thriving work environment, encouraging engagement and optimal performance without the burnout.
Anna Glynn is a speaker, educator and coach on thriving workplaces. Anna sees her key role as translating research into relatable strategies for organisations to empower their people and performance to thrive. Anna’s mission is to create workplaces where people can be at their best each day and are better off having worked there!
Having worked in the financial services industry for a decade including leading national sales teams, Anna understands what it’s like to manage people and be responsible for driving growth in the workplace.
In this episode, Anna and I chat about:
why it’s more important than ever before to have strong leaders and how they can lead their teams to thrive during ever-changing environments;
how we can individually lead ourselves during difficult times;
ways to keep engagement high amongst teams to ensure optimal performance; and
So much more!
Let's dive into this conversation with Anna Glynn.
Welcome to the Career Confidence Podcast, the podcast for driven lawyers wanting to step out of the traditional path and build fulfilling and purposeful careers. I'm your host, maria Ducar, legal counsel and career coach, helping you navigate your career with intention and confidence. In this podcast, we don't show away from having real conversations about topics that matter to us. Driven AF go-getters From manifesting your dream career, negotiating the salary you deserve, creating your personal brand, knowing when it's time to pivot. We cover these topics and so much more. You ready, let's dive into today's episode.
Speaker 1:
Tough times call for leaders to rise up to the challenge and encourage a sustainable and thriving workplace for their teams. But how exactly can you do this from a practical perspective? Because it's all well and good to say this in theory, right, but what is it that you can do to make this happen in your workplace? Well, our guests today will be providing us with lots of insights and practical tips on how you can create a thriving work environment encouraging engagement and optimal performance without the burnout. Our guest is Anna Glynn, who is actually returning to the Career Confidence podcast for the second time. Anna is a speaker, educator and coach on thriving workplaces. Anna sees her key role as translating research into relatable strategies for organizations to empower their people and performance to thrive. Anna's mission is to create workplaces where people can be at their best each day and are better off having work there. I mean that's incredible, right. We all want to be part of environments where we actually feel like we can grow and learn from it and be better than when we entered that workplace. Having worked in the financial services industry for a decade, including leading national sales teams, anna understands what it's like to manage people and be responsible for driving growth in the workplace. In her practice, anna has worked with a number of global organizations from across a range of industries. She also teaches students at the University of Melbourne Centre for Well-being Science. Additionally, anna's expertise has been sought by organizations looking for advice on their well-being strategies or initiatives.
Speaker 1:
Now, without further ado, let's dive into this conversation with Anna. Hi, anna, welcome back to the Career Confidence podcast. How are you going today? I'm very well, thank you, and thank you so much for having me back. I'm super excited to be here, my pleasure. I think you're the only guest that I've had back for the second time, but I'm very excited for our conversation today, and so the last I've actually had you on was back in 2022, which was a long time ago now, two years ago.
Speaker 1:
It's a bit crazy to think about it and that thing we're talking about the great resignation, because that was a very hot topic then and how we can benefit from it Now. A lot obviously has changed since then. What changes have you seen since we last spoke in terms of the workplace and what are some predictions you have about the workplace this year? Great, great opening question and yes, wow, what a big kind of two years that we've had.
Speaker 1:
So certainly lots has been happening, particularly in our organizations, I guess, in terms of us talking about the great resignation and, I guess, the opportunities and challenges that that presented to both employees and employers. I think the fallout of that is still happening, but I think what we've seen is a bit of a shift where if during that time, we would say that the employees were having more of the power, like the ball was in their court, I think what's shifted is that that ball's probably gone a bit back to the employers or the employers are trying to take it back. So we see that play out in things like the return to office mandates that I know are sort of sweeping through a few workplaces, certainly in Australia and I know around the world, where employers are trying to say I want you back in the office. And that does cause a bit of stress and anxiety for people because all of a sudden that sense of flexibility and autonomy they had gets sort of ripped out from them and there's obviously those concerns of you know, is it because my leader doesn't trust me? Is there that feeling of sort of distrust happening? So I think that's probably a shift that we've seen in terms of that power play.
Speaker 1:
I haven't seen so many people moving jobs. I think job security at the moment is something that people are, you know they're holding on to perhaps that fear or that concern that we might be going into a recession. Also, what we've seen has been lots of organizations, particularly in the tech space, going through big redundancies as well. So I think a lot of people aren't necessarily looking to move as much as they were previously. I think now it's probably a bit more about holding on tightly to their roles. Yeah, exactly right. And there is a lot of talk about this impending recession. That naturally makes us feel nervous, and both from the employee perspective. But employers don't necessarily want to be losing star-fied because then they have to retrain and be under resourced. No one wants that.
Speaker 1:
Why do you feel like now it's more important than ever before to have strong leaders, and how can they lead their teams to thrive during ever-changing environments? Well, ultimately, leaders have a huge impact on their teams. There will be a whole range of different states out there saying that it could be upwards of 70% of a leader's capability or skill set or impact. It's up to 70% is what they have on their team. We need leaders to be at their best. We need them to act in behavior in a way that they become a bit of a role model for us, really. So really, we should be seeing in our leaders the behaviors that they want us to adopt as employees, conditions that are happening in organizations.
Speaker 1:
As trends, disengagement is still rising. So if we look at something like engagement in particular, we know that, again, leaders have a really big role to play in that. Leaders need to be thinking about ways that they can actually engage their team. A great easy, efficient way to do that is by something like playing to strengths, so knowing the strengths of your team members and making sure that you're fully leveraging those so people can experience lots of moments of flow and they can be engaged in their work as well.
Speaker 1:
The other thing that is often contributing to this rising disengagement, as you touched on, is that at the moment, we're seeing that the demands are really piling up on people, so there's a lot more demands and a lot more pressure being felt. If we don't have the resources to meet those demands, that's when those feelings of exhaustion or what's worse is it can actually lead to feelings of burning out as well. So when we don't have the resources to meet our demands, that certainly has a big impact on us. So, again, as a leader, you might be thinking about well, what are some of the ways that I can actually reduce the demands of my team? But also, on the flip side, what's a way that I can actually give them more resources to meet those demands? And that's, again by highlighting the strengths of your team members. That's actually highlighting the resources that they can use.
Speaker 1:
I really love that approach and I think that's something that a lot of organizations really do need to implement, because it is so common where you hear like lots of teams are under-resourced, even in big organizations where you expect otherwise, and that can be really tough because the other people are like, well, there's no resources and I'm just drowning in this work, and then they have leaders that aren't necessarily helping that. But I love that shift in power where the leaders can really take that ownership of their roles. As leaders play to the strengths of their people and ensure that they also do have the resources there, whilst also reducing the demands on them as well, I think that's really yeah, that actually does get the result. Rather just talking about oh yeah, we're just trying to help you as much as we can, or we're here to just get the job done. That's not really helpful, especially for the employee that's doing their best and still drowning in the workload.
Speaker 1:
I see it the other thing by using that as a strategy, it's a way of also retaining your talent. So you know this whole piece about oh, I'm worried, I'm going to lose my best talent and, as we just spoke about earlier, some things like great resignations, etc. If you've got your teams engaged and performing at their best, they're going to be less likely to want to look for a job elsewhere, because you're actually providing the environment for them to thrive as well. So that's another angle to consider. Is that, yeah, playing to the strengths of your team members is actually going to help keep them. It's also another way that you can recruit the best talent by thinking about well, what are the strengths that I need to add to my team as well to complement the others? That's a really intentional way to recruit, rather than just saying, oh, we just need more hands on deck, but it's like, what exactly are you missing here? Like, who do you need? What type of skill do they possess to complement the team? And there's all those things that leaders can do to support their team.
Speaker 1:
But what can we individually do to lead ourselves? Because I also, I really do believe in taking responsibility over ourselves and our actions. So, what can we do ourselves during these difficult times? Yeah Well, it's a great point, because I think people sometimes fail to realise that, even though it's relating to things like your organisation and your workplace, yes, they are contributors to your well-being, but certainly there's a whole lot of responsibility that sits with the eye as well and with ourselves. I think one thing in particular that people probably haven't realised is that a lot of people haven't sort of taken the time to really recharge, re-energise and close the loop on that pandemic fallout.
Speaker 1:
We talk about things like we can have things that stress us in our lives, like the stress all, and that's kind of largely gone when we're thinking about pandemic to some extent, but we haven't actually addressed the stress and what happened during that time. So what I'm also noticing at the moment and it's a bit worrying given it's the start of the year is that people are still telling me they're exhausted, they went into the summer break, they might have taken a couple of weeks off, maybe not enough, and they really haven't recharged fully to think about what is it that their body needs as a way of recovering from that period of time. So, again, taking responsibility for that and thinking about, well, what is it that my body and my mind needs actually for me to recover but also to be at my best going forward? So we have to close that loop and I like that analogy that is brought up in the book Burnout by the Nogoski sisters, which is a great book, which actually talks about this cycle and the fact that we deal with the stressor but we don't actually deal with the stress itself. So I think that's something we all need to consider going forward Absolutely, and we just think, because that pandemic has passed, we think, oh yeah, like we're just back to normal and we can just do what we were doing before and be fine. But we were exhausted because that was a collective traumatic experience for us. So there is those ongoing things that we need to continually be working on and be aware of. So I really like that about taking control of yourself and your well-being in that way.
Speaker 1:
Now, speaking of books, you've recently written a book called Strong Congratulations. That is a huge achievement. Can you tell us more about your book, who is it for and some key things that have come out from it? Well, thank you. Yes, it has been a big achievement, but something I'm very proud of and very excited to get out into the world as well.
Speaker 1:
The book has been written for sales leaders specifically. I guess there's two things to consider there. The first was that I wrote it sort of for myself back when I was leading sales teams and not quite having the confidence to do that or knowing exactly what to do. So it's sort of written with the young Anna in mind, but on the flip side, what I've realized is that ultimately, everyone is in sales as well. So I talk about in the book that the book is for sales leaders, which everyone is selling something at the end of the day, or trying to influence someone to do something or change behavior or take an action. So even for my lawyer friends out there and certainly my legal clients who've said to me, well, what about our book? I said no, absolutely. These strategies will still work for you because it's what I'm already teaching you.
Speaker 1:
But it is under that idea that everyone is in sales, but also the idea that everyone can choose to be a leader as well. So it's a little bit of the background of it, but what it actually sets sales leaders up to do is it's a guide that includes a lot of evidence-backed strategies around how do you actually lift engagement so a lot of the things that we've just been talking about how do you achieve better results and also how do you thrive in the process. So it's a really practical guide for the leader, for strategies to help themselves, but also to support their teams as well. Yeah, and I love that you frame that as lawyers also being sales leaders. I know that a lot of lawyers they shy away from that and you're right. Like everyone is selling something, we're selling professional services or if you are an in-house lawyer, you're trying to influence a decision in the company that you work for. So those tips and tactics that you have in your book would definitely apply to lawyers as well, and I think owning that is really powerful as well. It's a liberating experience to own yourself as a sales leader and as a lawyer. I think it will really put you in good stead in your career as well. Learning opens up some interesting discussions, that's for sure. Oh, absolutely, and so we've been talking about keeping engagement high and well-being to ensure optimal performance and also, obviously, to be looking after yourself so that you're not burning yourself out.
Speaker 1:
What do you feel optimal performance looks like in 2024? You know, a post-COVID era? What does it look like now? I guess it would be different to what it may have looked like before. I love that question and I love that you've tended optimal performance, because typically what we hear before performance is the word high, and I have a little bit of an issue with that idea of high performance. For me, I'm all about achieving long-term, sustainable performance, because I think we've seen too much of the negative side of that high performance. I think it sort of brings up those negative ideas of the way that we actually achieve that high performance, because it sets the expectation that it's got to be constantly high, which we know isn't probably possible for many people. My idea, or my focus, is that long-term sustainable performance, and the way that we achieve that is actually through really healthy behaviors.
Speaker 1:
What I've found through my research is that there's kind of three ingredients that we need to achieve that optimal performance or that great performance. So the first is we need our teams to be engaged, so when we are at our best as an individual and as a team, we are more able to perform well. The second thing, which I think is really important given our current environment that's going to continue to be challenging going forward, is that we need the skills to be able to cope well and to handle pressure. So we are always going to have challenges thrown at us, whether that's in our working environment or in our personal environment, so we need to be able to cope well with those but actually learn to grow as a result of those struggles as well. So I think that's the second element that's needed. And then the third is we need to have great well-being.
Speaker 1:
Now, when we talk about well-being, this is considering things like do we have high quality connections with people around us? Do we have a sense of purpose in our lives and in our work so we understand actually what we're aiming for? Are we able to grow and develop? Also, do we have sort of autonomy and flexibility in our roles and in our lives, no matter what that might look like, because that's probably going to be very individual? So when we have some of those elements present, we know that we're more likely to have higher well-being. So I'm a firm believer that when we have those three elements so the engagement, the resilience and the well-being in play, then we're more able to achieve that long-term sustainable performance.
Speaker 1:
Yeah, I love that and I think that's exactly right. Those three key areas really do make up optimal performance and sustainable performance, because it's not about being that high performer every single day, because no one is going to be Like it's just not sustainable to be at that high level every single day. There's like ebbs and flows in workload and all of that, and also it's nice to use the more quieter periods at work to actually do other type of activity that necessarily isn't that high performance activity, but maybe more of the strategizing and the planning. And then when it's like busy again, then you can implement taking action and all of that. So the workplace isn't a black and white environment. It's very nuanced and we should be able to, I guess, manage our energy throughout those different cycles, and the way to do that is through the elements that you've just discussed.
Speaker 1:
And in terms of well-being, what do you feel like organizations could be doing more of to really encourage well-being? Because it's all well and good to be talking about it and a lot of companies do say, oh yeah, we really prioritized well-being, but when it comes to the crux of it and it's really busy, it does get thrown out the window. What can organizations do more of to really encourage this? And I think you've touched on probably what's one of the biggest challenges with something like well-being is that we don't want it to go by the wayside. You know, fall by the wayside when it is busy or you know, things are a bit chaotic or we're about to go through a restructure or we're about to go through a transformation or change. That's when clients will often say to me oh, we can't think about well-being right now, but that's absolutely when they should be thinking about well-being, because it's during those periods that we know that we need to support our people to be at their best in spite of those challenges. So I think you know we need to stop thinking that well-being is just something we do as a once-off, you know, a couple of times a year or on a certain day. It needs to be something that's actually part of the day-to-day or certainly part of the culture of the organization.
Speaker 1:
The other consideration is around the different layers of the organization and what each layer is responsible for when it comes to the organization and its teams and its people being well. So I always talk to groups about this me-we-us model and the idea that there is absolutely responsibility that the me needs to take, so the I in terms of what do I need to be well, but in addition to that, our leaders and our teams also need to have options around what they need to be well. So there is some responsibility that sits at that leadership level, but also thinking about what are the things that we do for our teams or as a team to help us have great well-being. And then the third is the us level of the organization, which is actually when we start to think about what are the policies or the processes or the communication that we use that informs well-being in our organization as well. So we actually need to build strategies that address those three different layers to set us all up to thrive Because, again, it's not one person's responsibility. Everyone's got that role to play.
Speaker 1:
The other thing to consider is based on the actions or the initiatives that you might try is you want them to be over the longer term, because certainly what we know from the research is that behavior change takes a period of time before it just becomes, maybe, business as usual. So we can't just do something as a once-off and think that change will be created. It's got to be something that we bring to life over the longer term. But I think a really good starting point for organizations is to consider what's already going well. So what are the things that our teams have said help contribute to their well-being? And let's make sure we keep doing them, because sometimes we might let things go that we don't think are working but they actually are. So let's keep doing those things that are working well and then think about well, maybe where are we not working so well? And also, what do our teams want going forward in the future to help them be at their best. Yeah, I love that layered approach and I don't think it's as simple as just like one person taking control and ownership over their well-being or just one policy being in place. It's definitely a layered approach and everyone needs to be involved in that collaboratively.
Speaker 1:
And is there something that I haven't asked you today that you really want to talk about, or a message you want to get across, or anything in relation to your book? The stage is yours, essentially. Wow, we could sit here all day talking about one of my favorite topics. I think, given what we've been talking about and what people need to be at their best, I think it's a really good time of year, being the start of the year, to think about that, to think about what is it that I actually need to put in place for me to thrive this year? Again, a good place to start is maybe reflecting on last year and thinking about well, what went well?
Speaker 1:
So, in terms of getting me to be at my best, what was it? What didn't go so well? So, what have I learned about my well-being that maybe I need to reconsider or change, and then think about well, what is it that I need to try next. It's all well and good for us to set resolutions and goals, but I think we need to also do that reflection time and think about, yeah, what has my past shown me that I need to take forward? If anything, if you're still struggling to work out what it is you might need, there is a lot of resources out there to support you and think about, yeah, what gets you to be at your best as well.
Speaker 1:
So start of the year, as I said, a really good time to perhaps do a bit of that retrospective and then start to plan forward as well, because there is so much within our own control. It's important to recognize that, particularly when maybe there might be a lot of things outside of our control, there's certainly a lot that we can take responsibility over to help ourselves to thrive in the year as well. Yeah, I love that. I love reflecting and taking out what's worked, what hasn't worked, and it's a great way to start the year, as you said, and especially if there is a lot of negativity around you, a lot of change, this is the one thing you can control. So why not start the year off in that positive way so that you can thrive for the rest of the year, and where can my audience purchase your book, also find you, to connect with you and get to know you and your work more?
Speaker 1:
My book is available for sale by my website, so the website is anaglincomau. I wouldn't love people to certainly buy the book, but, of course, sign up to my newsletter, where I regularly share sort of information from my research and from the research that's out there. Additionally, you can connect with me on LinkedIn, so by just searching for anaglin on LinkedIn. Again, that's a place where I am often sharing tips, tricks, strategies, letting people know a lot of information about the type of work I do and also giving those really practical strategies that people can take away and actually question themselves immediately as well. So I would love people to connect with me there. Always.
Speaker 1:
I'm open for emails and phone conversations for anyone else that would like to have a chat as well. Thank you so much and I will put that in the show notes so my audience can find you, connect with you, get your book. I just want to thank you so much for your time, thank you for your wisdom, always valuable insights that you have, and, yeah, I can't wait for maybe our third chat, you know, and your next book? Maybe next year? We'll put it out there. Yeah, you're just setting me up. So right about this. I am setting you up. No, it is in the works. So, yeah, stay tuned for more details on that one, but let's get the first one done first. Amazing, thank you so much, anna. Thanks for tuning into the Career Confidence podcast, like what you learned today. Why not share this episode with your work, bestie, and leave us a five star review on? Wherever you listen to your podcast on, we'd absolutely love to get into more years and help more women, just like you, build fulfilling and thriving careers. Until next time,