The Career Confidence Podcast
The Career Confidence Podcast
72. Client Spotlight: Fashion Lawyer to Fashion Entrepreneur
You’ve always felt like you didn’t quite fit in—your entrepreneurial mindset craved innovation and autonomy.
But now, you feel stuck. It’s like your workplace is holding you back, clipping your wings when you know you’re meant for bigger things.
This was the story of one of my clients - an entrepreneurial spirit eager to make an impact.
Staying in a fixed role felt stifling, so she decided to design her own career path.
My guest Chloe Taylor diversified her experience by working across different practice groups, even starting a fashion law practice group to bring in new clients and expand her expertise in fashion law.
But that’s not all, she’s just launched her own fashion label, IamZeiya. Chloe embodies the essence of the unbound lawyer—breaking free from the constraints of her title and creating her own path to success.
Tune into this episode to hear Chloe’s career story, how she went from fashion lawyer to entrepreneur and the growth she experienced working with me in The Unbound Lawyer program.
Connect with our Guest:
Website: https://zeiya.com.au/
LinkedIn: https://www.linkedin.com/in/ctaylorr/
Instagram: @iamzeiya_
TikTok: @iamzeiya
Connect with the host:
Website: https://marijaduka.com/
LinkedIn: https://www.linkedin.com/in/marija-duka/
Instagram: @marija.duka
Click HERE to sign up to the free 3 mindset shifting e-lessons.
Welcome to the Career Confidence Podcast, the podcast for driven lawyers wanting to step out of the traditional path and build fulfilling and purposeful careers. I'm your host, maria Dukar, legal counsel and career coach, helping you navigate your career with intention and confidence. In this podcast, we don't shy away from having real conversations about topics that matter to us. Driven AF go-getters From manifesting your dream career, negotiating the salary you deserve, creating your personal brand, knowing when it's time to pivot. We cover these topics and so much more. You ready, let's dive into today's episode. You've always felt like you didn't quite fit in. Your entrepreneurial mindset, craved innovation and autonomy, but now you feel stuck. It's like your workplace is holding you back, clipping your wings, when you know you're meant for bigger things.
Speaker 1:This was the story of one of my clients an entrepreneurial spirit eager to make an impact. Staying in a fixed role felt stifling, so she decided to design her own career path. My guest, chloe Taylor, diversified her experience by working across different practice groups and even starting a fashion law practice group to bring in new clients and expand her expertise in fashion law. But that's not all. Chloe has gone from fashion lawyer to entrepreneur, where she has launched her own fashion label. I Am Zaya. Chloe embodies the essence of the unbound lawyer breaking free from the constraints of her title and creating her own path to success. In this episode, you will hear Chloe's career story, how she went from fashion lawyer to entrepreneur and the growth she experienced working with me in the Unbound Lawyer program. Now let's dive in today's episode and hear Chloe's story. Let's dive in today's episode and hear Chloe's story. Hi Chloe, welcome to the Career Confidence Podcast. I'm so excited to be chatting to you today and for you to share more about your story with my audience.
Speaker 2:Thank you, excited to be here.
Speaker 1:Could you please tell the audience who Chloe is and what you do?
Speaker 2:Yeah, so I suppose at a very high level. I am a lawyer, I work with Colin Wilcox and over the past two years I've built a fashion and beauty practice, so specializing in providing legal services to our clients that operate in the fashion and beauty space.
Speaker 1:Love that. I know that my audience will be keen to hear more about what that journey has looked like and how you ended up there, so would you please walk us through that journey and how did you end up being a fashion lawyer? It is quite a niche area of practice.
Speaker 2:Yeah, it's pretty niche, it's pretty unique. It's not something that I thought I would be doing at this point in my life, but I definitely wish I had discovered this path earlier. I started as a commercial lawyer at a firm in Melbourne and I worked for a few boutique firms doing general commercial work and, yeah, throughout that time I just was exposed to a range of different clients, generally in the fashion space, smaller businesses usually, then also just some IT and government clients. Then I decided that commercial I wasn't really that excited about commercial work at that point, so I jumped over to the dark side of litigation, which I thought would be much more exciting, and again I was working with just like a vast array of clients, a big mix. So I was a litigation lawyer for about three years before I started to think about clients that I wanted to target, clients I wanted to work with.
Speaker 2:And when I came over to Hornwell Crocs, I was exposed and got to work with a few clients in the industry and thought, hey, we have a good client base.
Speaker 2:We should really leverage this and start providing a more specialized focus for these clients.
Speaker 2:And so I ended up speaking to the firm and asking if I could work more closely with the commercial team and I ended up actually sitting across three separate teams, which was a litigation, the commercial and the property team.
Speaker 2:It was something that was not done by anyone else at the firm and it came with a lot of complexities and you know, from myself and from the firm perspective, I think as well but it was yeah, it's been a really exciting journey. I have got to work with some great partners at the firm and also some really good clients, and I suppose how I started and how I sort of thought about or found this space is that I was trying to combine my love of fashion with, we'll say, my love of law and I don't know if I was on there, but anyway and then I sort of thought, oh, maybe I need to go back and do it there or more study, and I didn't really want to do that, but I did find that there was a short course, a boot camp, run out of New York for fashion law and apparently overseas there are fashion lawyers in the US and in Europe.
Speaker 2:It's actually quite a well-known profession and I explored that a bit more and went to, came to my firm and said, hey, I want to start exploring this and do you support me? And they said yes and haven't looked back since.
Speaker 1:I love that. I just love how much of a go-getter that you are like, and I've worked with you as a career coach and we'll go into that a little bit later on. But I have been lucky enough to really get to know you well and see behind the scenes of how you work, and I've always been really inspired about the fact that you just ask for what you want, because you ask the opportunities are there, right? And, as you said before, like it did come with some complexities around working across three practice groups, which obviously it would be very complex and everyone would have different needs.
Speaker 1:But yeah, I just want to say I guess to the audience as a lesson from just that snippet that you gave us that if you don't ask, you don't get or you won't know. So I guess just go for it. If there's something, that, if you have an idea, just put it out there. And even if you get a no which I'm sure you know, chloe, there's probably been times where you might have been pushed back on some things, but just perseverance and, yeah, just asking for what's on your heart.
Speaker 2:Yeah, definitely. I think that's so important and I hate to use the term hustling, but it is something that you have to do in this profession if you want to hone in on a certain practice area. You want to work with certain clients. There's nothing wrong with asking to work with certain clients.
Speaker 2:I did get a little bit of pushback because I think that people just thought I wanted to only, I would only work in fashion beauty clients and that was it. But that's, of course, not the case. So you have to be, quite you know, sure that you don't get the wrong message across, because I think you learn a lot from working with different clients. I worked with clients in the construction space and a lot of even just reviewing their contracts. Still, you know, I apply a lot of the terms that I've learned and a lot of the things I learned from their contracts to contracts that I look at for our fashion beauty clients, because there can be a lot of crossover with law generally, especially commercial law, but I think it is so important to, yeah, to question things, to ask questions, to ask for things that you want to do, to explore.
Speaker 2:Don't just think you have to sit back and accept the work that's given you and you know that's all you have to do. That's all you can do. There is so much opportunity out there. I've got friends that want to work with musicians in the music space. They're exploring that. You know. There's sports law, which is a really well-established practice now, so I think there's so many opportunities. If there's something that you're passionate about, you really need to get on the front foot and push for it because, unfortunately, as much as partners and your colleagues will support you, they've got their own work to do and their own deadlines to meet and you need to be the constant driver if you want to get into a space you're passionate about.
Speaker 1:I really love that. You just said that and, yeah, I really hope that the audience really takes that in. I'm sure they will, because what you just said is key to creating a career that you want, to being in control of your career, taking the driver's seat of your career, and it's never really too early to start, because you started quite early. How early in your career did you start to ask for working with specific clients and being in that industry?
Speaker 2:Yeah, I think I waited too long, to be honest, and I think that this is something that I stress to junior lawyers a lot. Now I do a bit of mentoring and I've had a lot of people reach out to me on LinkedIn and ask me questions about how I got to be doing what I'm doing. And I, but you know, at least the first, probably four years of my career I'm like a 60 year old now and I just thought, oh, I just, I just have to do the work I'm given. I can't really ask people in certain matters, I just need to be, yeah, be like this many hours and I can't push back, I can't ask for things.
Speaker 2:But again, as you said, if you don't ask you, you don't get, and partners and your colleagues are more than happy to help you and get you involved in a matter of if they can. You know, even if you have to sort of ask, oh, can I do it and not go for it, if you can learn, if you're passionate about something, people will help you succeed and they will give you the opportunities. But you really just, yeah, you do have to ask for them. It's not about sitting back and waiting and just doing. You know, whatever comes to my desk I'll do. It's really thinking out those opportunities and trying, yeah, to fill your cup that way, I suppose.
Speaker 1:I love that. That's awesome. Thanks for sharing that. You've recently launched your own brand. I am Zaya. Congratulations, what a huge achievement. Thank you. What has that process been like and what have you learned about yourself along the way?
Speaker 2:Yeah, it's been really challenging. To be honest, I've always loved fashion and I've been on the cusp of doing something in the industry for a long time. I've sort of mucked around with like being an influencer, but I realized that probably wasn't for me time. I've sort of mucked around with like being an influencer but I realised that probably wasn't for me.
Speaker 2:So I've always like uploaded a lot of different fashion tips and things on social media and I was uploading and doing all the filming the TikToks for Laura of Fashion and having a lot of fun with that. But then I thought I'm still just missing this creative outlet and I think that, as much as I'm giving all these great clients all this legal advice and helping them grow their business, I want to be on that side. I want to be creating and have something that's my own, and it's taken me a good well over a year to actually launch, and that is partly because of work commitments, but also partly because I am a perfectionist and I've had things ready to go for a very long time but just could not pull the trigger. And so I finally pulled the trigger, which is really exciting, and yeah, it's taught me a lot about myself personally and professionally, I think, as a lawyer.
Speaker 2:It's funny. You think that you'll start a business and everything will you know, you'll register the company, you'll set up all your documents and your agreements. You'll have everything really ready to go. I do not, because I'm also trying to do work and everything else, so that's been really interesting. But yeah, it's really exciting. It's great to have. I think it's so important for lawyers we work such hard, long hours, we work difficult matters and to have a creative outlet and to do something that you're passionate about. It doesn't have to be something that makes money, it can be anything. Really, I think that's just so important.
Speaker 1:I agree, and when you said that you had things ready to go but you just didn't pull the trigger, like I guess, at that point, what was coming up for you, like what fears were, I guess, stopping you from pulling the trigger at that time, that you were actually ready to have everything you know to go?
Speaker 2:I think it's yeah, it's a lot of things. I suppose I think everyone has always said to me oh, you should do something in fashion. And so I felt like I had a lot of pressure to get things right and I had also had a vision in my mind that I couldn't communicate to people. So I was working with graphic designers and trying to get the branding all right and it just sort of wasn't getting to where I wanted it to be. So I was putting a lot of pressure on myself, but then also it's kind of like that you know, how did this fit in with me being a lawyer? How does this all work?
Speaker 2:So just a lot of things going through your mind at the time, and I think that was why I sort of had to reflect on hey, what am I going to do with this business? I also again had I didn't want to launch it in a time that work was super busy and I was, you know, sort of half in, half out. I wanted to 100% be ready to commit to it and be excited and not just launch it and be like, okay, yeah, I'll get to it and sort of give it some attention when I can.
Speaker 1:I wanted to be really passionate about it. Yeah, I think, the right time. So, yeah, it's. It has been a long time coming, but I'm happy it's finally here. Yeah, how amazing. And then once you launch it right like you'd probably realize how all those fears they just go away. Because it's like I was worried about all of these things for no reason kind of thing, because you would have got an amazing reception from people buying your products and yeah, yeah, I did, and I don't think I'll ever forget when I finally put the website up, live and said oh yeah, live, anything there.
Speaker 2:I wasn't expecting to sell anything. And then, like within I think 20 minutes, a woman in Queensland was the first person to buy my product and I think she'd seen me on TikTok had no idea who this lady was and she just bought two and I was just, I just did a little happy dance that they you know small business owners when they make a sale they do a happy dance. I did cry as well, but it was just such an amazing feeling to think that that I've reached someone yeah, that I have no idea who this person is. And she sent me emails about it, like later, and was just like thank you so much. I've been waiting for these to come and I love them.
Speaker 1:And she sent me photos and it's just such an amazing experience, so, yeah, that was really exciting that's gonna make me cry maybe some hormones but I just see so much passion in you, chloe, and, having worked with you before and just knowing you, like I just know how much like effort and passion you put into what you do, so I'm just so happy for you, like, I'm so, so happy, and you deserve every single success that you get from launching. You know and sometimes we can have those self-doubts or when you launch it, there are people waiting for you. There are people actually like I want this. You know, hurry up and give it to me.
Speaker 2:Literally are people waiting for you. There are people actually like I want this. You know, hurry up and give it to me. Literally, yeah, it's so true, and I had so many friends that bought products as well, and I was like you idiots, like they're my best friends, I'm like I would have, just, you know, given you a makeshift or something, but it's so nice to have that support as well yeah, they want to support you and I think that's really important.
Speaker 1:Can you tell us a bit more about? I am Zaya, like where did the name come from? What do you sell? Like I obviously know what you sell but like the audience because this is a podcast and they're not seeing what you're wearing.
Speaker 2:Yeah, no, that's yeah, it's a different concept. So it's actually they're brooches. Every time I say brooch, everyone goes oh, you know, my grandma used to wear brooches. But I am bringing back the brooch what they are. They're designed to be worn in very different ways. You can put them on necklaces, over buttons. They just provide or give a completely different look to an outfit. I've found all these different colors and different styles and that I'll be. At the moment, I've sort of sourced them from pretty much all over, but I'll be designing them myself as well soon and working with a manufacturer in Turkey, which is great, because the word Zyre doesn't actually have a universal definition and it's funny.
Speaker 2:I won't go into a long-winded story about it, but when I was creating the name, that just seemed like the hardest part for me. I don't know why, but as a lawyer, you know, I was like creating a list of all these names and what I was doing was like I'd put the name into google, check if the domain was available, then I'd add it to my list and keep doing that until I had like 20 and I sat back and I was like, oh, I just don't know. I don't know what name, but it's because I wasn't actually like sitting with them. I was just kind of doing all the checks and creating this list. And my friend goes Zaya that's a super cool name, what about that? And I was like, yeah, you're right. And then we locked it up and yeah, it was like super cool. I'd always actually wanted a Z name. I don't know why I love the letters Z or Z.
Speaker 2:And then when I looked it up on chat GPT, I was going to Japan like in a couple of weeks and the chat gbt definition came up with some definition. Essentially that was zaya translates to uh, japanese sort of saying that means the time is now. Anyway, I've tried to look at goosebumps. I know big definition has never come up again. Luckily I screenshot it because it has. I've never been able to find it. So that's's what ChatGPT said at the time. And yeah, now it means like when you look it up. So Zaya, spelled with Z-I-Y-A is a Turkish name and it means light and radiance, but it can be spelled with Z-E-I-Y-A as well. So I just love that story because I think at that time I was really looking, I was ready and that's what Zaya means and they're really, really different products.
Speaker 2:I'm obviously very passionate about them. I love them. I think every time I wear a brooch on my blazer if I'm going to work, or on a dress, I just like they just have so much power. And one thing I should mention as well is all of the products are named, the collections are after.
Speaker 2:I Am Affirmations, am strong, I am fearless, I am confident, because I think that that's I use I am affirmations a lot, and I think that a lot of people do in, like in our profession again with burnout and and I think that it's really important to for each piece to have a really strong message and so they're designed to be worn, especially even if you have sort of like a you know big client meeting coming up, and I feel like, if you, just for me, I want the message to be that if you wear you know that piece on your blazer or on a dress or a shirt, that if you've got that at the point meeting, you can sort of just touch the brooch and just have a little bit of a reminder to say that you know you got this, you know you can do it. Yeah, that's all the messaging behind it. I haven't quite got that across in the brand new. But that, that's sort of yeah you have got it across.
Speaker 1:you have absolutely got across, because I I've noticed that, like I've noticed the I am statements, and it's very much clear because I've seen people reposting like unpackaging and things like that, and it has the I am statement in the. Is it in, like the thank you card? Yeah, yeah.
Speaker 2:So everyone gets a little affirmation card. Okay, good, see again. I'm just such a perfectionist. I critique myself all the time.
Speaker 1:Yes, you're very hard on yourself, that's for sure.
Speaker 1:But, you've created something that's incredible and you're making brooches cool again and they are very beautiful and, uh, so powerful in that they like. Even just by looking at them, I'm like, yeah, like wearing. I can see how wearing that would make you feel confident, would make you feel beautiful, make you know they're really beautiful pieces. Yeah, the audience really needs to check them out. Yeah, yeah, little plug. Yeah, we'll link everything in the show notes anyway, so they'll have a chance to do that. And I just love that story about when you put it into chat jpt. That in Japanese it means the time is now, and that's also a universal sign for you to just get it out there, right, because you were, you know, thinking about all these different names and the universe is like all right, chloe, come on, let's just do this, Get on with it.
Speaker 2:I think all of my friends are like when are you launching this product? It took me so long.
Speaker 1:And I had everything at home just sitting. Yeah, it's so ridiculous. Well, you know what?
Speaker 2:as as that sign came up. The time is now, and that's when the perfect timing was and that's when it all happened. So I think we won't say that it still took me a year after that time, maria, but we won't.
Speaker 1:I didn't know that we won't go into that, but, um, it's good that you have friends that were pushing you yeah, yeah, it's always good to have a good support network and big friends to you know.
Speaker 1:Give you that boot up the bum when you need it absolutely and chloe, I love how real you are on social media and you've had a social media presence for a while now, as you said, before you had the, the fashion lawyer page, and now it's transitioning into I am zaya. You're yourself in every piece of content that I see. Like. I'm always like. That's Chloe, like it's just like. How you portray yourself online is literally how you are. Has this been a natural process for you, or did you have to build up the confidence along the way to show up the way that you do? Like? Do you even think about it? Like, is there something that's on your mind?
Speaker 2:I think it's funny. I speak to a lot of people about social media and a lot of people, you know, hate doing the face to camera and they don't really like using it. And when I started the lawyer of fashion TikTok which was something very different, so no one at my firm was doing a TikTok a lot of partners at my firm were like what is that? You know, that's not really on brand for us. I didn't listen. I love that.
Speaker 1:I love that Honestly like. That's just so powerful. I didn't listen.
Speaker 2:No, I didn't. It got us clients at the end of the day. So, you know, and I wasn't giving, I was very clear on the fact that I wasn't giving legal advice. So that lawyer of fashion account is still up. I just I'm not active on it anymore. But that was really fun. I, you know, met some great people.
Speaker 2:I had a lot of fun with it and it was a great way for me to keep up to date with what was going on. I was essentially just jumping onto LinkedIn or having a look at the latest news topics and then I just do a bit of a green screen video and speak to the, to what was happening, if there was any deals going on or or any that. And yeah, I think it was really fun. I think if anyone's looking at getting into social media, it does take a bit of time to get used to it and sort of to get over the fact that, yeah, you may come across cringe, but no one cares Like no one actually cares. And if they do care, they're probably a little bit jealous that they're not doing it or it's just not them and you know you just move on. And so I think that I found that TikTok was really powerful and it's a great space because, look, there are trolls on there, but generally people are so accommodating and so they're just nice and inspirational and I get so many nice comments. I've met amazing people on TikTok that have just messaged me saying I love your style, let's get a copy, and it's great. It's a great way for connecting and I think that LinkedIn as well is another one that I really I tell everyone to jump on it.
Speaker 2:Any junior lawyers Again. I've met so many great people on there and, you know, built some really good connections. Even just staying on top of the latest trends and news and what's going on, I think is great. But yeah, I think social media, if you use it in the right way, can be super powerful, especially for building your own practice. But it probably will just take a bit of time to get into the grooves of how you want to. You know it has to be you at the end of the day and you have to be a bit careful. You're professional as well at the end of the day, so you can't just be, yeah, sort of saying whatever on there, but my advice is to be really authentic and do what works for you.
Speaker 1:I think that's really great advice, and different styles suit different people, right? Some people might be more like bubbly and like out there on there. Some people might be more serious, and that's okay, because everyone gravitates to different things as well. People watch you for what you bring to the like the table and the uniqueness that you have. So I just love the way that you blend, like your lifestyle, the knowledge around the law that you did with the fashion lawyer page and now obviously like with your brand as well, but I feel like you show a really good mix of everything and I think it's a really great way for people to get to know you. So, yeah, yeah, just wanted to acknowledge you for that and tell you, like, how relatable that is. And, yeah, people love getting insights into people's lives and I think you do that really, really well.
Speaker 2:Yeah, I like to not be too structured. Even before, I was just filming a TikTok to show how to wear a brooch in three different ways, and Maria you now know that my smoke alarm has been going off all day. So, and Maria, you now know that my smoke alarm has been going off all day, so it just interrupted me midway through, so I just had you know beats by my smoke alarm.
Speaker 1:Yeah, and I uploaded that because I just thought it was hilarious, so, like that's how it should be, yeah absolutely and people will find that's relatable because everyone has had like a similar experience where they might be on a you know Zoom call meeting and you know they get disrupted by the delivery person or their dog is going off in the background or whatever.
Speaker 1:It's not meant to be perfect, and that's what, like, is great about the way that. Yeah, you just do content as in what you see is what you get. This is what's happening. Yeah, just put it up, and that's why I think it does really well as well. So that's it needs to be relatable, yeah, relatable yeah, yeah, absolutely, and I think TikTok does that well in general, because TikTok is less curated than Instagram.
Speaker 1:So, yeah, yeah, it makes sense that people, yeah, find that really like interesting and they gravitate towards that yeah definitely, as I mentioned a few times on this episode, that you and I previously worked together and in my coaching program, the Unbound Lawyer. I think it was about two years ago, maybe a bit longer now. Time flies, time flies, and so proud of like to see like how far you've come and you're just following your dreams, like it's for me like just watching. That is incredible. It's like such a good feeling. It's like watching a child grow up. You know it's like, oh, such a good feeling. It's like watching your child grow up. You know it's like, oh, it's beautiful. You like saying you're coming into your own. Would you mind sharing with the audience what your experience was like going through that program and, I guess, what changes you saw in yourself after completing the program?
Speaker 2:I'll be the first person to say that the program was amazing, and I'm not just saying that because you know I'm a guest on the podcast. It was, I think Marie became a bit of a psychologist for me as well as a coach, and I sort of found you and it was. You know, I think I heard you speak at a conference and after that I just knew that you were the right fit for me, and I didn't even know you were doing coaching at the time, I don't think. And I just approached you and we had a chat and yeah, it's sort of we all. It all went from there. We didn't. We never looked back, but it was at a time where I didn't really want the fashion law stuff at the moment. I was exploring it. I'd done a little bit but nothing was really happening, and again, I'm really impatient. So I was, you know, meeting with and speaking to work, but no one wanted to like say they didn't want to have a fashion law section on our website, just all these little things. I was banging my head up against a wall thinking this is a great idea, I could be doing so much, but no one wanted to listen. So throughout that time that was really tough and I think the best part was meeting with you.
Speaker 2:I think we're having, you know, weekly meetings or fortnightly meetings, and after every meeting, like I'd go into it and I was so deflated most of the time at the start and I think a lot of time I'd start conversations and say I'm so sorry, I'm just going to dump all this on you and let's just see where we go. And it was so great that actually just talking me through and working through all of the issues, even though I would just word vomit and be like I'm just, you know, I'm just over it, I don't know what to do, and after every session I had really clear direction on you know what I should be doing. You know, like before we'd see each other again, we had clear sort of you know, step-by-step things. It was never overwhelming, it wasn't like I was doing homework, it was just more you were, you know, guiding me. You know, just stay on the right path, because I think that when you're doing something that is so different and you know people do not understand. No one at my work understood. They were supportive, yes, but they again had their own things going on and they were just like, yeah, okay, this is a little chick that wants to work with fashion brands Cool, let's, whatever, let's let her do it, and I around school let's, whatever, let's let her do it, and I, yeah, going through all these things, I was constantly networking with people and just didn't really feel like I was getting anywhere. And when you're doing something on your own like that and you don't have anyone else in your corner, it is so challenging to stay on the right track, and so I think that course throughout that time kept me on the right track.
Speaker 2:I learned a lot about you know what I needed to be doing. I learned a lot about myself. I learned that I was, you know, my toughest critic a lot of the time and you'd be like what are you doing? You've done so much, like you need to be easy, go easier on yourself. You're not trying to change the world here, but yeah, so it was just such a great program for me at that time and you know I've said thank you and I can't thank you enough for everything that you supported me through.
Speaker 2:I don't think I'd be where I am today, or have had you know the opportunities I've had, without having your guidance, because I think I would have just fallen off the tracks and sort of let it go.
Speaker 2:It was a really, really good program for me and I really encourage anyone that's looking at you know, feeling a bit lost in their career, especially if you're like a first or second year lawyer. I think that so much of the time you do these things later down the track and you're like why did I waste all this time? Like I should have done this coaching in my earlier stages because I don't know what I'm doing and you know you're listening to partners who have been prehistoric, you know, know they mentor you and they're great, but their practices are really outdated and I think you've got a different, you know look on things and you've got to bring some different ideas to the table. So I really, you know, I think as much as it's needed for people that are at my level, I think for juniors it would be great, a great program as well thank you for that, chloe, really Honestly.
Speaker 1:Like I did not pay Chloe to say all those things I'm not sponsored, yeah, not sponsored but it was such a pleasure working with you and just seeing your journey and I like what you said. Around you know, when you are doing something that is different and you're pushing against the grain and people aren't really listening behind, like it's. You know, it's great to have like work, mentors and all that kind of stuff, but sometimes they just don't have that time or that expertise or that perspective. And that's where I came in and just to essentially like, as Chloe said, like I'm just guiding, guiding you on your journey, like I'm not telling you what to do, I'm not steering you in a direction that you don't want to go on, but it's more about like a collaborative experience of working together to make your like what you're wanting, like your dreams, a reality for you. That's essentially, yeah, what it is. So, yeah, thank you so much for sharing that.
Speaker 2:Really appreciate that yeah, no, it was like, honestly, I can't. I've, you know, sent your details to a lot of different people, and I think that, obviously, coaching is something that I think people are sometimes scared of and they can't commit to, and it takes a lot of time. It's kind of like saying a psychologist, really but I think it's just so worth investing the time if you have it and if you're, you know, just feeling a bit stuck with what you want to do next, it's a great way to just learn more about yourself and give yourself a bit of direction.
Speaker 1:Yeah, explore new things absolutely, and it's that you know, by investing that time, your time then compounds later on. Like you, you get that time back rather than spending maybe a year trying to work it out on your own and that kind of stuff. So yeah, thanks for that. If someone is unhappy in their current role and has a desire to create something for themselves like maybe something new, a brand, or maybe they've got some idea in their mind what are some things you'd say to them to get that going?
Speaker 2:I think number one is do not put too much pressure on yourself. One of the worst things for me was that I was constantly watching TikToks of these people that were like, oh, my nine to five and my five to nine and you know, saying that oh, I, you know, do a 12 hour day and then I come home and I'm creative and I create this brand. That is BS. I'm sorry, because it takes either a completely different mindset If you're trying to do something, if you're a lawyer, so if you're, you know, or any corporate professional, and you are trying to do something, if you're a lawyer, so if you're, you know, or any corporate professional, and you are trying to do something creative that your brain is probably not that used to. Yes, we have to be creative when it comes to giving our clients advice, but if you're wanting to do a marketing campaign about broaches, very different you know sort of mentality that you need to be using. So I was putting so much pressure on myself because I thought why am I so tired? Why am I doing things like? And then I'd get to the point where I wouldn't do anything because I thought, oh, it's not, you know, it's not worth it, it's too much. I've got too much to do, and then I'd just go and watch Netflix for 12 hours and that was just not productive. So when I and you know, I was also working with a fashion designer who was amazing and she was giving me just some coaching on how fashion companies and designers operate and that was great too but, yeah, I think I was just putting so much pressure on myself to get everything done, and you know I said to her I'm gonna, I've got the launch party idea, we're gonna launch in two months. And she was like Chloe, you're not gonna launch in two months, like that's, yes, I know. Like you think you've got the name. That's great, but you also need to like think about your mission statement, organize your packaging. There's so much for you to do.
Speaker 2:And I think when I finally accepted that I didn't have to have a date and put like so much pressure on myself to launch a product by a certain time, it allowed me to explore different things a bit more. I could, yeah, just get a bit more creative. I found more time and I actually really enjoyed it. I wasn't like sitting down at my desk going, oh, I've just finished a crazy day at work and now I have to try and think of something for Zaya. I'd actually spend my weekends wanting to create content and do fun things. So I think once that pressure was off and I was also not someone told me that you should try.
Speaker 2:And because I work from home a lot, so I was like working from home and then I'd get to six o'clock or seven o'clock and I'd try and desire from my same desk and it's just like well, that that's such a different energy. It's not going to. I'm not going to be creative sitting here with a scrunchie on trackies. You know, after smashing out advice all day, or you know giving clients, you know having conversations that were really difficult. So I think my advice to anyone wanting to do this is definitely do it. I think having a side hustle or a side project or a passion is really great, but just don't put so much pressure on yourself. Again, I hear so many of my friends like I need a side hustle, I need a side hustle. You don't need to have one. It's if you want to have one and you feel passionate about something, then do it and just enjoy it. Don't, yeah, put so much pressure on yourself.
Speaker 1:I really love that advice and that mindset shift that you had. I love how you said that it's when you made that shift around taking the pressure off and not having a time frame that we actually started enjoying what you were doing. And I relate to that so much. Being in that similar situation of, with my business, having a different mindset required for a different part of the brain, and you know, with being a lawyer as well, like I've had to work through that myself too. Like when do I work on the business? Like what energy am I bringing to that? It's so important?
Speaker 1:It's not just about like I spend nine to five on my lawyer job and then I don't know, seven to ten or whatever on my side hustle. It's just not that black and white, unfortunately. It's like our brain just isn't our energy and our brain doesn't work that way. So I'm so happy that you spoke about that, because that's the reality of like I guess what it takes to do two things at once, especially when you still have your full-time job and you're exploring other things, like the reality is is that it's not that overnight success. We could just jump into it straight away. So that transition period does require some work and mindset shifts that you just spoke about. Definitely, yeah, love that. So, chloe, as I ask all of my guests that come on the podcast, is what does career confidence mean to you and what's one practical tip you could offer to my audience to build their confidence in their career? A?
Speaker 2:bit of a hard one, but I think that it's just backing yourself. Number one is so important. I think, again, it took me ages to do this, like just to be confident in what I want to do or what I want to explore. Don't think that you're crazy for doing something different and for going against the grain. I think it's, yeah, so important.
Speaker 2:Again, you can get stuck in the same sort of trotting into work, sitting down, billing your time, going home, being and like feeling a bit miserable because it's so mundane and I think it's career confidence is just having if it's not serving you. Have the confidence to know that it's not serving you and find out why and back yourself in knowing that this isn't all there is to life. Like there is, I think so many lawyers get burnt out and they sort of think, oh, is this, it? Is this all there is? But there think, so many lawyers get burnt out and they sort of think, oh, is this? It? Is this all there is? But there's so many different options, different pathways, different things you can explore and you know, I think it is really having the confidence to do that.
Speaker 2:It took me so long to do that and again I was doing the same thing for four years. I think I was just doing the work, not loving it, wondering why I wasn't loving it. People around me, really busy, and they were enjoying it, and I just sort of thought, oh this, maybe this is just it. Like I think that's, that's just being a lawyer. It's tough and you know that's, that's all there is. But the last few years have been probably the most challenging few years of my life because I have stepped up and gone. Okay, something is not serving me and it needs to change. And yeah, I think it's in any profession.
Speaker 2:We're all so scared. You know we don't want to be fired, we don't want to ruffle any feathers, but I challenge you to ruffle some feathers because and only if you're unhappy I mean, you could love your job and everything's going great and, yeah, you don't need to ruffle any feathers. That's cool. But if you do feel like something, yes, there's something missing then explore it further. That's my biggest tip.
Speaker 1:Amazing Ruffle some feathers. I love that Ruffle some feathers.
Speaker 2:I love it, there you go. There, I love it, there you go. There's your title for the podcast. Absolutely.
Speaker 1:Yeah, done, thank you. What's next for Chloe? What, like what are your plans moving forward?
Speaker 2:Super controversial. I actually have resigned from my job. I have been with Hall Wilcox for three years and we're nearly three years in August. I'm finishing up at the end of the month and I don't have anything lined up. I was going in-house but I've decided just to take a bit of time to explore some other options to invest fully in Sire. And yeah, again, it's scary because it's not something I've ever done.
Speaker 2:I've always had another job lined up. I've always known what I was going to do. I've always been very structured, but I think I need a bit of mechiness and I need to just go all in. And yeah, as we have said, being a lawyer can be taxing and time consuming and I think that if I really want to make this work and I want to be creative and let that creativeness flow, that I need to take a break from the law for a little while. So, yeah, I'm having a break. It has definitely ruffled some feathers at the firm because everyone yeah, a lot of the older partners are like well, what the hell do you mean by that? But yeah, I think that's the exciting part. I don't know where it's going to take me, but I can always come back to the law if I want to, and so yeah, it's all about Zaya for the next little while I was going to say you're not taking a break because you've got your business.
Speaker 1:You are not taking a break, You've got a business and you're busy.
Speaker 2:Yeah, exactly Like you've got things going on. It may be. Yeah, no, I'm not just like sunning myself in paradise, if anything, like I'm about to become a small business owner, so I think that is probably already.
Speaker 1:Yeah, I am, I am already, but I mean it's gonna yeah, it's gonna open it up and I think like when you make decisions like that, I feel like you just open up that window of opportunity, but things just like happen for you and you probably like I'm sure even the audience can relate from past situations in their life where they've closed one door and like another door would open and like all these opportunities come flooding in. So congratulations, I think that's an amazing step. I think it is very exciting.
Speaker 2:I love that you're continuing to ruffle feathers like don't I will say that, and can I just say that the amount of people I don't know if this is concerning, but when I say that I've resigned from my job as a lawyer, they have said congratulations. It's really interesting, like it's not a oh, that's exciting, it's like congratulations, like well done, yeah, it's cool. I didn't really think that would be the response I'd get, but I'm here for it, it's great.
Speaker 1:I think that a lot of people put their identity towards being a lawyer. Like it's, like I am a lawyer, you know, for such a long time and you start to behave in that way and you kind of lose yourself sometimes in that profession. So I think you, by saying yes to your dreams and closing one door that served you up to this point, I think it's it is a congratulations because you're, yeah, like you're creating your own identity away from being a lawyer.
Speaker 2:It's so true, and especially when I mean my mum makes it very known that I still have a very big ex-debt to pay off. That has been one of the biggest concerns to me, but I still need to pay it off. But at the end of the day, you have to do what makes you happy and I'll probably never pay it off. To be honest, Take it to the grave. Don't tell the HBO, we won't.
Speaker 1:I'm sure they don't listen to this podcast, so they won't find out yeah no, now, before we jump off, where can my audience find you to connect with you, to buy your brochures and just get to know you more?
Speaker 2:yeah, that's the main thing support small business people. So I am Zaya. Yes, it's one of those brands that is very difficult to spell and say, so it's z-e-i-y-a. Instagram is I am Zaya. The website is wwwziyacomau. I also use on Instagram just Chloe, ashley Taylor. That's my personal Instagram. I've met a lot of great people through there, especially like a lot of junior lawyers as well. It's so good. Social media has been such a great space for me to connect and connect with people and meet and network and, yeah, such a big fan of it for that reason. So, yeah, I'll be at the firm for another until the end of the month, so if you need any legal advice, feel free to hit me up, but after that I'll be taking a well-deserved break from the law and, yeah, you can find me at all my desire.
Speaker 1:Yeah amazing and we'll put all of that in the show notes. Everyone will be able to link to everything and connect with you. Find you buy the brooches. It's a possible business, yeah and they are beautiful.
Speaker 1:They honestly they are stunning. They are so beautiful. I love the different ways that you have shown to wear them and I'm like I did not know you could wear a brooch like that on top of buttons as a necklace. I'm like, wow, amazing, amazing. Everyone, check out all of those pages because it will give you so many different creative ways and I just love your style in general. We didn't actually have time to touch on this, but I just love your style. I think that it's amazing. I love that you show like yourself through it and it's different, and I always say to myself, how does she think to do this and this, like how cool is that? Would never have like put those two things together. So, yeah, just keep shining bright, chloe. Thank you so much for being on the show and sharing so vulnerably about your journey and what's ahead for you, and I've really loved this conversation.
Speaker 2:Yeah, this is lovely. Thank you so much. It's always great. I always feel so good after our chat Me too.
Speaker 1:Thanks for tuning into the Career Confidence Podcast. Like what you learned today, me too, just like you, build fulfilling and thriving careers. Until next time.
