Courier Conversations
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Courier Conversations
God's Sovereignty: Why Should We Pray, Evangelize, and Plan?
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If God is fully sovereign, why should we pray, share the gospel, or make plans? In this episode of Courier Conversations, Jeff Robinson and Travis Kerns explore biblical answers to these important questions, drawing from Scripture and historic Christian theology to show how God’s sovereignty fuels faithful living.
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Welcome And Setup
JeffWelcome to another episode of Courier Conversations. I'm your host, Jeff Robinson, and with me is uh as always my co-host Travis Kerns. And Travis, are you with us? We've been dealing with some uh some uh situations with our our uh our our technology. So how's it going with you now, Travis?
TravisYeah, I think through our uh what the kids would call technical difficulties, I think we're good.
JeffPlease stand by. Very good. Well, and today we're just uh continuing a conversation we had last time on a non-controversial and very small issue of God's sovereignty. Uh last time we looked at God's sovereignty and uh in the problem of evil, a so-called problem of evil. And today we want to continue just answering some questions because uh I've even had a couple of people, uh, I've had a couple of questions from listeners
Why Pray If God Knows
Jeffout there. So if God is sovereign, then, and we're gonna start with this one, why pray? If God knows everything, if God has ordained everything, even as we have argued here, then why would we need to pray? God knows everything, he's gonna do what he's gonna do, he has his plan before the foundation of the world. And so, why then should we pray? Because he knows already and doesn't he have better things to do than to listen to us pray. So why do we pray? Well, for one thing, and I'm you you go ahead, Travis, and I'll say what I was gonna say.
TravisGreat question. Uh, it's one that's been posed by people throughout the centuries, um since and maybe even since you know, across the millennia. Um because from the beginning in Genesis 2 when humans are created, or Genesis 1 when they're created, and then Genesis 2 when the microscope is given on day six, uh, this has been a question on people's minds. So I think it's a it's a great uh kind of starter for where we're going. So go ahead, Jeff.
JeffNo, one of the uh one of the uh great historic teachers of God's sovereignty, and there are some Christians who believe he invented God's sovereignty, was John Calvin, the great reformer uh of Geneva. And in his uh best-known work, his most famous work that really invented systematic theology, the Christian institutes of the Christian religion, he uh maybe the most glorious writing on prayer was in the pages of the Institutes. And he gives six reasons for prayer here. He had a very healthy view of God's sovereignty, but he also uh believed we should pray because scripture commands us to, as you said, and uh it's uh one of the means God has uh God has ordained to achieve his ends, and he doesn't shove them apart from our prayers. And so we're just gonna read these from the Institutes, uh, six reasons why it's important, very important still, he says, for us to call upon him. First, so that our hearts may be fired with a zealous and burning desire ever to seek, love, and serve him, while we become accustomed in every need to flee to him as to a sacred anchor. Beautiful language. Calvin wrote very plainly, secondly, that there may there may enter into our hearts no desire and no wish at all of which we should be ashamed to make him a witness, while we learn to set all our wishes before his eyes, and even to pour out our hearts wholly to him. Thirdly, that we be prepared to receive his benefits with true gratitude of heart and thanksgiving, benefits that our prayer reminds us come from his hand. Fourthly, moreover, that having obtained what we are seeking, and being convinced that he has answered our prayers, we should be led to meditate upon his kindness more ardently. Fifthly, that at the same time we embrace with greater delight those things which we acknowledge to have been obtained by our prayers. Now, if Calvin is such a fatalist as some have accused him, why does he say we've obtained these things by our prayers? Right? And finally, that use and experience may, according to the measure of our feebleness, confirm his providence, while we understand not only that he promises never to fail us, and of his own will opens the way to call upon him at every point of necessity, but also that he ever extends his hand to help his own children, not wet nursing them with words, but defending them with present help. In other words, God wants us to lean on him and to come to him for help, and God answers prayers. So this does not sound to me like that uh a big God theology, as we like to call it, or sovereign God theology, leads to some kind of fatalism and lazy fatalism in which we don't pray.
TravisYeah, I think they're uh I think Calvin is dead on. You know, it's interesting um his work, the Institutes of the Christian religion, often gets lambasted uh for various theological reasons. But uh it's also interesting to me that the work starts out as a devotional work looking toward the Holy Spirit and communion with the spirit in the life of the believer. Uh, in fact, he spends very little time dealing with uh what uh those who disagreed with him would have called the five points of Calvinism, uh, but really spends a lot of the time in devotional writing about the spirit, about prayer, about other issues in the Christian life. Uh, in fact, he's got a small book on the Christian life um that's that's just some of the best stuff I've ever read. Uh he was a brilliant man. He was wrong in some spots. He was a Presbyterian, so he liked to baptize infants. That's obviously also loved the idea of a church-run state. Um, that's not exactly what I would argue for. Um but uh you know, his his writing on prayer, Jeff, as you mentioned, is very, very good. Um, you know, one of the reasons um that that we pray, I I think we often forget is pretty straightforward and pretty simple, and that is scripture commands us to. Uh you know, from the outset in the old testament through the end of the new testament, the assumption is made that we pray. Uh, and probably the best known prayer for both Christians and non-Christians is the Lord's Prayer in Matthew 6. And we usually jump in straight into our Father in heaven, hallowed be your name, jump into the meat of the prayer itself. But what's what's always interesting to me is in Matthew 6 5, uh before the prayer starts in 6.9, Jesus says, And when you pray, you must not be like the hypocrites, for they love to stand and pray in the synagogues at the street corners that they may be seen by others. Um and then verse 6, but when you pray, go into your room and shut the door and pray to your father who's in secret. Your father who sees it in secret will reward you. So before the prayer itself starts, when you pray, and 6 6 before the prayer starts, when you pray. It's not an if you pray, it's an assumption that believers do pray. And so with that, and then in verse 7, when you pray. Three times in three verses, Jesus is making the assumption that we will indeed be praying. Um and then verse eight, I think, answers uh kind of what we're talking about here. Don't be like them, like the hypocrites, for your father knows what you need before you ask him. So this is an issue of humility. Uh, I think it's one of the you know, nowhere in the text do we see bow your heads and close your eyes, um, or anything like that, like we usually hear in in a lot of our churches. But the issue of bowing ahead and closing eyes shows humility before the father. It shows a sense of us being fully reliant on him. And I think if you read through the Lord's Prayer, you come up with a lot more, uh, if I can put it this way, a lot more third person pronouns than you do first person. So you get a lot more he, him, his than I, me, mine. Um, so the the prayer uh that you see that's probably again the most well known in all of scripture is focused on not if but when. Three times in three verses, Jesus says that. And it's focused on the Father's will. And you know, it starts out, everybody knows our Father in heaven, hallowed be your name, your kingdom come, your will be done on earth as it is in heaven. So everything is focused on God first. Um believing that, and Calvin hits on this, believing that God is sovereign has nothing to do whatsoever with whether or not we should pray. Believing that God is sovereign means that we should pray even more so. Uh because prayer does not, as even though uh some writers in larger Christian circles, and I say that very generously, have said that prayer changes things. Um prayer does not change God. We have to make sure and say that from the outset uh and emphatically. But prayer might change a situation because it could very well be that God's means to an end, that he's planned from before the foundation of the world is the prayers of the saints. Um it also brings us into alignment with his will when we pray, your kingdom come, your will be done, that then changes us. Um, and I really think as we pray for, for example, as we pray for uh the sick to be healed, we pray for certain situations to be worked out, we pray according to God's will, not to ours, it changes us in conformity and it can or conforms us rather to his will. And it puts us on a different level, so to speak, with those for whom we are praying. Um, if I pray for my enemies, as Jesus talks about in the Lord's Prayer, then I'm gonna look at them a little bit differently than the crazy lunatic next door who is somebody I want to do something horrible to. It's somebody that I want the best for, that I want the gospel to go to. If it's somebody in my church that I have a hard time with, or we just have personality conflicts, praying for that person regularly would be uh verse 13 in the Lord's Prayer, lead us not into temptation, but deliver us from evil. Uh so I know that was a long uh pericopy there, I guess you could say, uh, on a very short question, but prayer is one of those things that God has ordained that we do it because it it conforms us to his will, it changes us the most. Uh and he's ordained that we do so. So we follow in submission to the Father's will.
JeffThere is a sense in which these things wouldn't happen apart from our prayers, but God's ordained our prayers to bring those things about. So there is a connection between the two. And it's interesting, Calvin calls prayer here in the Institutes the chief exercise of faith. Of course, by praying, we're trusting, right? We're we're talking with God. He said it's the chief exercise of faith by which we receive daily receive God's benefits. So we don't receive them apart from prayer, but we receive them by asking for them. And and of course, how do we have a relationship with our wives or our husbands? If you're a wife out there listening, you do it by talking with them, right? You talk with them, you you talk to them. My wife and I, we we uh, you know, my staff laughs, we talk about probably five or six times a day. Sometimes she'll call me, you know, but it's a cell phone now, but we talk, and by talking for 30 years, we have a very intimate relationship, like you and Stacy do. And uh anyone uh who's uh married knows this. Uh, and you're friends, uh I mean you and I have been talking, Travis, for 25 years, right, about uh Clemson and Georgia football and the Bible and theology and uh Sanford and Son and a lot of other things. And as a result, we're you know, we've become very close friends while we're on this podcast together. And so we have we develop that relationship with God by talking to him. And of course, the word of God is listening to him. We hear from him, we hear him talk, and that that give and take relationship. And Calvin talks about that here in the Institutes how uh you know Calvin is no fatalist, he gets accused of this. And the people make these accusations, by the way, have never read Calvin, I'm convinced, because Michael Hakin and I did a um uh back in 2014, we co-wrote a book on uh through Crossway on Calvin, the reformers and uh evangelism, uh, because the whole old saw is well, evangelism, the reformers had nothing to say to the lost, which is just monk. The whole point of the reformation was recovering of the gospel to address the lost, uh to address the lost people, right? That's the whole point of the reformation, to bring it out of the captivity, the Roman Babylonian captivity, although they're called the Roman Catholic Church. But and so they're they were not fatalists, so it's the chief exercise of faith by which we receive God's daily benefits. I'll read one thing and we'll move on to the next question. But Paul in 1 Corinthians, or sorry, Philippians 1, he's in a jail in Philippi where he writes this letter and he writes this. He says, Yes, and I'll rejoice, because he rejoices all through this. He's so joyful in prison. He says to verse 19, chapter 1, for I know that through your prayers, in other words, it's a means that it's a it's a statement of means, through the means of your prayers, you could say, and the help of the Holy Spirit of Jesus Christ, this will turn out for my deliverance. So, how will he be delivered from jail? Well, through your prayers, and of course, the prayers, given the logical uh the grammar here, through your prayers, and combined with the help of the Spirit of Jesus Christ, the Holy Spirit, then he'll be delivered. Of course, one way or the other. You don't know if he's going to get angelic, he'd be killed, he'll be delivered, you know, kind of like uh the the Hebrew boys in Dana. They he'll be delivered one way or the other, uh, but through the prayers, through that means. And so that's it, it's important that that uh in a sense here, Paul is saying, yeah, prayer changes things, not change them in a different way than God had them ordained, but prayer brings these things about. And it's not magic, is it? It's a mean, a very vital means. God's has God has ordained for us to uh to have a relationship with him, to exercise faith and to to walk with him daily and uh to see things uh to say things happen and to rely on him, as you said earlier. So uh it's very important that by no means is that other in fact I wouldn't argue that sovereignty of God enables prayer, undergirds prayer. Because there's the first question.
Why Evangelize Under God’s Sovereignty
JeffThe second one is, and this is a natural, I've heard this a thousand times, if God is sovereign, as we're arguing here, meticulously sovereign over every molecule atom and subatomic particle or dated off for the foundation, well, then why evangelize? Frankly, that's a question I've almost grown tired of answering because it's just, but it's a good question. It's a question when I was wrestling to these things, I asked, and I'm sure you asked. Uh, I remember reading J.I. Packer's Evangelism and the Sovereignty of God early in my sort of my pilgrimage toward sound doctrine. And boy, it helped me a lot. And then I commend that book to listeners out there, Evangelism and the Sovereignty of God by J.I. Packer. So, how did God's sovereignty and human responsibility uh coalesce in scripture? Well, he shows that in a sense excellent. So, why do we evangelize, Travis? Why don't you just say, you know, God's gonna save, who's gonna save, he's gonna elect people, he's done that. I'm gonna I'm going. Well, I was gonna say, I'm going to the golf course. So you'll go to the raceway and I'll go to the golf course, right? And we'll just leave off the whole evangelism thing.
TravisYeah.
JeffWhy don't we do that?
TravisI I would give the same answer uh that we gave about prayer. Number one, because he commands us to share our faith. Um, some of the last words of Jesus prior to the ascension uh to his then 11 disciples, because Judas had already taken his life, found the Great Commission in Matthew 28, uh, which all of our listeners will be familiar with, to go and make disciples. We make disciples by sharing the explicit gospel message of Jesus Christ. Whatever method you might, uh whatever methodology you might appreciate, whether it be the Romans Road or Three Circles, or uh if you want to memorize a million texts, evangelism explosion, uh whatever it may be, uh, my preferred method is Romans Road, just because I can keep it pretty simple. Uh, but whatever your method might be that's tied to scripture, and we trust Romans 1.16 that the gospel is the power of God's salvation. The gospel will work when it's shared. Either the gospel uh regenerates and a person comes to faith in Christ, or it continues to harden the heart and that person uh continues to fail to see God for who he is. Uh so I think first of all, we do it because we're commanded to, and we see this as an example from Genesis 3.15 all the way to the end of Revelation 22. So Genesis 3.15, commonly referred to as the Proto-Evangelium, the first gospel, uh, where uh Satan is told the seed of the woman will crush your head, but you will crush his heel. So the heel wound is obviously not fatal, the head wound is. Um, but then you see it through uh Abraham as he shares the commands of God with the people uh who had become the people of Israel. We see it with Moses as he shares uh the commands of God from the mountain, from the Ten Commandments, uh through the wilderness. We see it in the um in the judges, um you see it through the prophets, beginning with Isaiah, through the end uh of the prophetic journey uh up to Malachi. You see it with John the Baptist, you see it with Jesus, you see it with Peter, James, John, Paul, on and on and on we go. The the consistent storyline through scripture is Jesus paid it all, all to him we owe, sin is washed a crimson stain, we washed it, or he washed it white as snow. And that is a command that we are given to, or a story rather, we're given to share as a command, not a suggestion. Uh Jesus doesn't say, I suggest you go out and make disciples. He says to do it. Uh so Matthew 28, 19, the word go is a command. Uh, go and do this. Um, there's been much haymade over the years that that's a word that maybe should be translated as you are going, regardless of how you translate it or understand it, it's go. It's just go and do it. Uh because Christ has all authority, um, that we see in verse 18, verse 19 then says, Because I have all authority, go share the gospel. We do it because he commands us to do it. Secondly, we do it because there is no other way for humanity to be reconciled to God other than through the hearing or reading of the explicit gospel message of Christ, and a person placing his or her faith in that gospel message. Period, end of story. Uh, you know, John 14, 6, I'm the way, the truth, and the life. No man comes to the Father but but by me. Uh, Acts 4, 12, uh, there is no other name given under heaven by which men must be saved. Uh 1 Timothy 2, there's only one mediator between man and God, uh, the man Christ Jesus. Uh this is the only way to heaven is through the ex the proclamation of the gospel message of Jesus, either verbally or in written form, uh, that the unbeliever must do something with. He or she must make a decision. Um, how that decision is made is uh point of debate, but we we evangelize because he commands us to. We evangelize because the only way for a person to escape his or her penalties for sin in hell eternally in eternal conscious torment is through placing faith in the gospel message of Jesus. Um, you know, I'll I'll give my favorite, and I hope I don't take any uh fire from you here, Jeff, but I'll take my favorite illustration from the great Charles Spurgeon, who was asked one time, how can you believe in God's sovereignty and still proclaim the message of the gospel to every person you see? And Spurgeon's famous response is until God becomes or gets into the business, uh, no, this is my version of it, until God gets in the business of painting yellow stripes down the backs of the elect, I will share the gospel with every person I see, everyone with whom I come into contact. Um, and because he is not painting yellow stripes down their backs, then I will say to every single person, uh, Jesus has died. What will you do with that? Will you place faith and trust in him? Uh, in fact, my and I'll I'll get off my soapbox with this one. My favorite uh Spurgeon illustration um is a plaque that he had in his office. That I had one made, and I've had it either in my dorm room when I was in college, and I've had it through uh until now. In fact, it hangs in my office here uh in my doorway. Um and the the plaque simply says perhaps today with a question mark. And it reminded Spurgeon every time he left his office to work as though perhaps today Christ will. Um in fact, yeah, we had some medallions made for the Three Rivers Association. It has the great on there, and it also says perhaps today, and that comes straight from Spurgeon. Um, so it reminds me every time I walk out of this door to work as though perhaps today Christ will return, to live in such a way that I would be honoring and glorifying to Christ, uh, to speak in such a way that I'd be honoring and glorifying to him, uh, and to share the message of Christ with those who have never heard, those who are unbelievers, because we do not know, nor does Christ. Only the Father knows, the text tells us, the day of his return, of his second coming. And so we live as though perhaps today Christ will. Return. My grandmother used to say all the time, don't make Jesus embarrassed to come back and get you by waiting for where he uh when he comes back. So I I want to live as though perhaps today Christ will return. So we do it because we're commanded to. We do it because the only way for a person to escape the penalty of sin in hell forever is by placing faith and trust in Christ.
JeffSo that's that that's exactly right. And to point out, historically speaking, Spurgeon was a big God theology man himself. He was uh of the reformed faith, we might say, and uh believe this had this very held this very view of God's sovereignty. It's part of where I learned it from years ago. Uh William Carey and Adam Iron Judson, two of the the founders of the modern missions movement, had held this theology believed God had a people. And if they would only proclaim the gospel, that God was mighty to save and he would save. Uh in the the Areophagus, Paul in a very famous sermon in John chapter 17, or I'm sorry, Acts chapter 17, Paul Paul said, um the times of eagerness God has overlooked, but now he commands now, right now, he commands all people everywhere to repent. Because he fixed a day on which he will judge the world in righteousness by the man whom he has appointed. So God commands all people everywhere to repent. All people, everywhere, not accepted, right? So the call of the gospel goes, as the old divines put it, promiscuously, is preached uh universally. We don't preach it only to the elect to look for sides of the elect. The Bible nowhere tells us that. And there have been churches historically Baptists who've gotten in trouble and killed their churches by with such uh shenanigans and false theology. But he commands all people everywhere to repent. And we don't know yet, we do not know. As Spurgeon said, no one's painted a yellow stripe down the back of the elect. We don't know their identity or put the numbers on their forehead, but we assume we assume everyone's savable in a sense, right? And so we preach the gospel. That's not our business. And uh Calvin's favorite verse was Deuteronomy 29, 29, which said, the things revealed belong to us and our children forever. The secret things belong to the Lord. In other words, what's behind the veil, and that is the identity of the elect, is one of those things, then uh God uh we we it belongs to the Lord and we leave it there, we don't worry about that. That's the as one old divine put it, one period put it. That's the start on the caboose of theology. When we start, we start with election, don't start there. The Bible doesn't start there. And really, when you you you only see that it's like seeing God's sovereignty and God's will in a lot of ways, many ways. You only see who the the identity of the elected in retrospect after they become Christians, right? Uh and you look again the next chapter of uh of uh of Acts. Well Paul's uh in Corinth now, and then of course, and he says Christ was the ruler of the Synagogue believed the Lord, all he got were together with his entire household. And many of the Corinthians hearing Paul believed and were baptized. Uh and and and uh the Lord said to Paul, one night in a vision, do not be afraid, but go in speaking, and do not be silent, for I am with you, and no one will attack you or harm you, for I have many in this city who are my people. I don't believe that was he's not talking about a the Christian club. I think he meant that he had many elect people. And anywhere we go, whether it's uh you know Brazil, it's uh a remote jungle, it's the farthest desert, where there are people, we uh we I think we're right to assume that God has people there. And we preach the gospel knowing that God is mighty to save, and uh as Jonah put it, uh in uh Jonah 2.9, salvation belongs to the Lord. And so we we preach, I wouldn't want to preach if I didn't think God was sovereign over salvation and mighty to save. Uh, but he has a people. I have many people in this city speaking uh of the city there, and um, and so uh he's encouraging Paul, go ahead and preach. Yes, there are many dangers and toils and snares. I'm gonna take care of you, and you're gonna preach, and I have many people there. So we uh uh we uh we evangelize because that's how the means God has given and us and we all are allowed to participate in uh the salvation of souls that way. We don't save anybody, but we're the means through which he takes his gospel. So, one more question, very quickly. We'll
Why Plan With Lord Willing
Jefftry to cover this in just a couple minutes because we're almost out of time. Um, if God is sovereign as we are arguing here, then why plan? Why don't we just get up and say, whatever will be, will be. The future is not ours to see. Okay, Sarah, Sarah. Why don't we just say that, right? Uh and why do we make plans? Because God's gonna get what he wants anyway. I'm thinking of a text here, and I bet you'll I bet you'll you'll go to it before I will. Let's see.
TravisOh no, I'm interested to hear what this is.
JeffOkay, James 4.
TravisOkay, 4. That's all right.
JeffJames 4. I hate people do that to me, by the way. You know what I'm thinking of, and I don't know what they're thinking of. I'm not omniscient. I know you think that. I appreciate it. That's humbling, but I don't. Uh he opposes the trail, gives grace to humble. All right, he says that earlier. Then and I think in verse 11 of James 4, I think he's speaking of humility. Here's how to be humble. One of the ways to be humble. Did I speak uh uh uh on down, verse 13? Sorry. Come now, you who say today or tomorrow we will go into such and such a town and spend a year there and trade and make a profit. Yet you do not know what tomorrow will bring. What is your life? You are a mist that appears for a little time and vanishes. Instead, you ought to say, if the Lord wills to live and do this or that, as you it as it is you boast in your arrogance, all such boasting is evil. So whoever knows the right thing to do does fail, but for him it's sin. So we we plan, right? We plan. We I mean in the Bible, they planned in the Old Testament, David, they planned battles, they planned, but always with the caveat, and we don't have to say it, that sounds super spiritual, I don't think, but Lord willing. That's always to be our posture, right? The Lord willing. I've how many times, Travis, have your plans been destroyed by God's will, and he had a better plan for your life than you did for yourself.
TravisEvery day.
JeffYeah.
unknownYeah.
TravisI mean, I I'm yeah, that's right. That uh that great verse, uh James 4 15, said you ought to say if the Lord wills we'll live and do this or that, has been southernized uh to some degree when we often say Lord will and the creek don't rise. You know, God's control. Uh that's right. That's good. It is. But it's absolutely the case, you know. We make plans, we do the best we can with what we've got, seeking the guidance of the Holy Spirit, uh, and always saying, Lord, if it's your will, then bring this to pass. Uh conform me to your spirit, conform me to your will. So if it's not your will, the Lord, uh, you know, I I've sorry, I've prayed this a number of times. If it's your will, open the door. If it's not your will, close it shut. Um something. And uh if the Lord blesses, then it's obviously his will. If it if it doesn't work out, then go try something else and just try to discern what the will of God is uh as you as you work in in daily life and in daily ministry.
JeffWell, and
Gethsemane Posture And Wrap-Up
Jeffwe'll close with this, and it's a great place to close. The ultimate example of this is uh in Gethsemane at the cross on the eve of the cross, where our Lord says, Let this cup, praise to the Father, let this cup pass from me. And then he says, What we should all, the posture we should always have toward everything is yet not my will but yours be done. Of course, we know the will of the Father was to send his son to die in the place of his people, and that's just to rescue us from our sins. And so uh uh we pray not your will our will be devil yours. And and we know from the Proverbs, the right of Proverbs says that God, uh we good man makes his plan, but God orders his steps, and that means God overrules our foolish steps and puts us where he wants us. And I can I could spend all day telling you in my 50, almost 59 years here in just a few weeks, how many times God has just demolished my plans, and uh uh some people say God laughed, but I find something that's true.
Where To Follow And Send Questions
JeffThank you for listening to this podcast of the Baptist Career and Career Company. Be sure to follow us on all social media platforms, give us a five-star review, and send any questions you want us to consider career conversations at gmail.com. If you prefer to watch our conversations, check us out on YouTube by clicking the link in the description.
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