Book People are the Best People! (and other truths)

Episode Summary In this Season 5 bonus episode, Beth McMullen and Lisa Schmid clear out their "insanely long" laundry list of burning topics. The duo discusses the restorative power of community, starting with Lisa’s wildly successful brewery book swap on Reading Street. They dive into how simple, low-lift events can be the perfect antidote to a dark news cycle and offer tips on how you can start your own.

The conversation moves into the digital space, covering the shift from Twitter to Threads and Blue Sky for monthly Kidlit chats. Finally, Beth and Lisa get serious about industry safety, offering a "buyer beware" guide to writing conferences and professional classes. They share advice on how to vet organizers, protect your investment, and ensure the event aligns with your specific writing goals.

Key Topics Covered

• The Magic of the Book Swap: Why gathering "book people" in a local brewery proved to be exactly what the community needed.
• Low-Lift Event Planning: How to foster connection without the stress of high-stakes organizing.
• The New Digital Frontier: Navigating the monthly Kidlit community chats on Threads and Blue Sky.
• Conference Due Diligence: How to research writing events, check their track records, and avoid losing money on canceled "dream" conferences.
• Defining Your Purpose: Why knowing why you are attending an event (networking vs. craft vs. pitching) is the key to a successful investment.

Resources & Links

• Threads Kidlit Chat: Join the conversation every first Wednesday of the month.
• Blue Sky Kidlit Chat: Join the conversation every first Tuesday of the month.
• Writers With Wrinkles Facebook Group: Join our private community for publishing news and "well-rounded" writing advice. (Note: Please answer the entry questions to join!)

Coming Up Next Week Don’t miss our conversation with author Fleur Bradley, who returns to the show to discuss her brand-new writing craft book focused on the art of Middle Grade mystery!

Transcript

Beth McMullen Hi friends, I'm Beth McMullen

Lisa Schmid And I'm Lisa Schmidt!

Beth McMullen And we're the co-hosts of Writers With Wrinkles This is Season , and this is a bonus episode Now, bonus episodes are usually… they usually show up when we have too many things that we very urgently want to talk to you about, so that… that's why this is here

Beth McMullen We just have a laundry list that we keep of topics that we think will be good for the podcast, and when that list gets, like

Beth McMullen insanely long We're just… we just pop in here to talk So that's what we're doing today, and we love it It's the best

Lisa Schmid It's like there's a Writers with Wrinkles hotline

Beth McMullen There is This is the --HELP

Lisa Schmid Well, it's so… I always feel bad for you, because I always, like… I think most people will just text stuff, and I'm like, why text when I can call Beth? So I'll call, and if you don't pick up, I'll wait a few minutes, and I'll call again

Beth McMullen This is true This is true My call log, you know how you can see your call log? It's like, you are the only person that I know Because every single call is you

Beth McMullen It's like, it's like if you were with me in person, I would just poking you in the shoulders Like, you don't ignore me

Lisa Schmid me

Beth McMullen She's relentless! She's relentless! And we have some, like, secret projects that we're working on that you guys will all eventually hear about, but I cannot wait for all of this stuff to be out, that we can talk about it, so I can tell everybody what a relentless taskmaster you are

Lisa Schmid I don't know what's…

Beth McMullen This woman never takes a day off She's, like, texting me on Sunday morning with, like, okay, this is going on, and that's going on, and I'm like, I just want to have a cup of coffee

Lisa Schmid There's no rest

Beth McMullen When I'm around I have… I was a little bit psychotic for, like, a month Like, a month Like, if you… I know, but honestly, you did more in that month than I have done in some entire years So, let's hear it for the

Beth McMullen the craziness! I'm all in

Lisa Schmid I was wheelin' and dealin', and, like, sending strongly worded emails, and…

Beth McMullen I could not keep up! I was, like, just trying to stay, like, present, at least, like, up to date, and it was… that was not gonna happen That was not happening I was, like, a mess

Lisa Schmid I have my desk, and then my… I have a bed, like, right next to it in the guest room, and there was, like, papers just spread across it as I was, like, trying to manage stuff And my husband would walk in and just look at me and stop, and I'd, like, shake my head, and he'd turn around

Beth McMullen He was like, I am not touching this This is like…

Lisa Schmid Amazon!

Beth McMullen Organized chaos

Lisa Schmid It was! I was on Zoom calls, I was, like, doing this and that, da-da-da, and texting you, and you're just like, yeah, I'm at Katie's game, I don't know what's going on with you

Beth McMullen Yeah, it was… no, it was good It was, like, impressively good, and, you know…

Beth McMullen Wait till summer when we can talk all about this stuff

Lisa Schmid Bye

Beth McMullen I will tell everybody, like, the real story of, like, the chaos in the background, because it was damn funny

Beth McMullen So, our special episode today, we were talking about a couple of things The first thing is a few little community-building…

Beth McMullen things that we think are interesting We have another Threads chat coming up in March, and we want to talk about that Then we're going to talk a little bit about conferences, because there's been some stuff in the news about writing conferences We get a lot of questions about, like

Beth McMullen I want to take a class, I want to do a conference, what should I do? What's the value in that? So, we're going to talk about those two things Tell them about you This got me really excited I think this is so brilliant Tell them about your book swap thing

Lisa Schmid This was so much fun If you were looking for something to do that's a distraction, or just to have fun, and it's community building… So, my husband and I own a brewery in, in Folsom And can I say it's on Reading Street, like…

Beth McMullen Did you do that on purpose? Were you like, honey, we're gonna start the brewery here, because it's on Reading Street, and I will take no argument on that

Lisa Schmid Oh my god, so it's… without a doubt, I have to have… I have to have book events, and so I had this book swap, I had heard about one back east

Lisa Schmid And so I just thought, you know what? I'm doing that And it was so much fun Like, people brought in, like, bags of books I have… and I have a picture, I will, you know, post some pictures from it

Lisa Schmid But there was just so many people, men, women, like, swapping books, talking about books, you know, walking up, going, oh my god, I brought that book, you're gonna love it, you know, and just… it was fun I had a smile on my face for  hours, just walking around, and people were so grateful It's like, this is the best time I've had in ages, because it was just…

Lisa Schmid you're in a room, you know, with all these people you have something in common with, and it was just complete book love It was just a blast

Beth McMullen I love that, too, because you end up… if you're a book person, even if you do, like, lots of books from the library, lots of e-books, you still end up with books somehow It's like, if you're a book person, the universe serves you up books some way or another, so you end up with…

Beth McMullen lots of books, and you run out of space I literally have, right now, I have… my husband built me these, like, beautiful bookshelves

Beth McMullen And I filled them up immediately in, like,  seconds, right? And so now I have this giant pile growing next to the bookshelves of ones that don't fit, and I made a…

Beth McMullen I made a vow to myself that I would get rid of everything that doesn't fit Like, I will get… I will bring… and I… when I get rid of books, I bring them to my local library, and they do a book sale that supports the library, so I drop them there, but…

Beth McMullen Like, I have so many, I feel like it would be really so fun to do this kind of event, and then you're not only, like, getting new books for yourself, which I understand, that does not make my pile smaller, but at the same time, like, you're meeting the book people!

Lisa Schmid Yeah

Lisa Schmid It was… it was great, and people were leaving, like, with  or  books Like, somebody said, I only brought in  books, you know, can I take more? And I'm like, look at that pile over there of books There's so many books

Beth McMullen Take as many as you want

Lisa Schmid So she went, like, one cow walked in with, like, a huge box, and I

Lisa Schmid I'm like, Molly? I'm like, I don't know

Lisa Schmid a lot of books, and so she just, you know, put them out there, and people took them, like, people were so excited

Beth McMullen Yeah, just…

Lisa Schmid It made me happy So, if you know, I guarantee you, if you approached, like, a brewery, or a coffee shop, or a wine bar, or whatever, we're always, you know, at the brewery, we're always looking for fun events that support the community They'll let you do it You know, they're just, they love that

Lisa Schmid enjoying stuff like that, because it brings people in Most places like that are very community-oriented You know, just if you're looking for a joy, go do a book swap

Beth McMullen And I think it's, like, it's…

Beth McMullen different than, like, the book sale that my local library does, because that's not a community event, you're not

Lisa Schmid Yeah

Beth McMullen like, the addition of, you know, the brewery, or a wine bar, or coffee shop, or something like that, is that it becomes a social engagement Right And you linger, right? You're not just going in, swapping books, and leaving, you're, like, lingering, and you're socializing, and I feel like…

Beth McMullen Right now, in this crazy timeline that we're living in, those sorts of connections can be…

Beth McMullen really restorative, right? You feel better after having, like, some super positive conversations with book people

Lisa Schmid Yeah, and that's it, you know, I ran into a gal at Whole Foods that had been at the book swap, and she literally ran over and hugged me, and was like, oh my god, I had so much fun Right

Lisa Schmid She's like, it was just such a blast, and she's like, I was… she was there for, like,  hours, and it just… it… it made me happy to see so many people happy, and you're right, in this timeline that we are living in, that's so dark

Lisa Schmid You gotta find places where you can find a little light

Beth McMullen Yeah, and I think that that, like, creative…

Beth McMullen creative ways of doing that, this seems like a super amazing example of that, where, you know, it's not a big… it's not a heavy lift

Beth McMullen It's pretty easy to do, and, you know, the hard part is just, like, getting the word out that this is gonna happen

Beth McMullen And then, you know, it kind of just… takes off

Lisa Schmid Yeah, it's funny, my husband was out of town, and he was messaging me, and he's like, the brewery is off the hook right now, and I'm like, book people, baby!

Beth McMullen Right, we're like, the book people, yeah, the book people show up, and then who knows what's gonna happen Things are gonna get wildly out of hand

Lisa Schmid Yeah

Beth McMullen Yeah, for sure So, I mean, it's kind of like a good reminder to people that, like

Beth McMullen if you feel it… if you're feeling like you need more community with your book people, you can make it happen, right? You, yourself, as one person, can make it happen There's lots of creative ways to do it

Lisa Schmid Yeah, the other thing I loved is that there was, two or three women that came in by themselves, and they just grabbed a… grabbed a book that they wanted, and we've got, like, some couches and big chairs, and they… I just would look over, and they would just be sitting there reading, drinking a beer, and I'm just like, good for you! Like, there's all

Lisa Schmid I love that And they're just sitting there reading and drinking, and I just thought, you are living your best life right now I love that

Beth McMullen You're like, this is my happy place, I'm socially

Lisa Schmid Yes, I'm like…

Beth McMullen I'm, like, parallel playing You know how they talk about that with toddlers? It's like, you

Beth McMullen I'll do my thing, we're just gonna be next to each other, so it probably feels like socializing, you know?

Lisa Schmid Yeah, totally You're out and about, life is good

Beth McMullen Yeah, no, it's cool

Beth McMullen So, yeah, I mean, and kind of…

Beth McMullen Thinking about community events, we have our monthly threads chat on deck for… remember, February is short I'm always surprised by that, where I'm like, wait, it's over? Oh my gosh, it's March! So, we have our… it is the… what is it? The first…

Lisa Schmid the first Wednesday of the month

Beth McMullen Okay Because don't forget, there's…

Lisa Schmid the first Tuesday of the month, over on Blue Sky, they have their Kidlit Chat, and so we are the first Wednesday of the month So you can go to both of them

Beth McMullen Yes, and that… we did that on purpose, because we did have a couple of people in our first chat who were doing both, and I was thinking to myself, I'm barely surviving this one The fact that you're participating in both? Wow, let's spread this out so that it's not so, like… that hurt my brain, and I wasn't even the one doing it

Lisa Schmid I think for them, it's probably different, because they're just popping back and forth, but you and I are, like, living in the moment, trying to… to respond

Beth McMullen And so… Trying to be in it, % in it

Lisa Schmid Okay

Beth McMullen So, what is our topic? What is our topic?

Lisa Schmid big themes in Kidlit, like, big-hearted themes It's all about themes

Beth McMullen Yeah, I like that I like that

Beth McMullen It's a good one It's a good one

Beth McMullen I'm doing a, presentation for the Nebraska SEBWI, actually, tomorrow night, so by the time this…

Beth McMullen podcast is dropped, it will be in the past, but…

Beth McMullen One of the things that I talk about is how important it is not to lose sight of those kid-related

Beth McMullen Themes, like, what matters to the… Kids

Lisa Schmid Yeah

Beth McMullen So, I think that'll be a fun one So that's on the first Wednesday in March, so hopefully lots of… we've had lots of… we've had a lot of people coming It's been super cool!

Lisa Schmid To the… to the kid-led chat?

Beth McMullen Yeah

Lisa Schmid You know what? It was crazy the last time So, you were just coming back from England

Beth McMullen I was up in the air, I was delayed, so I was… , feet

Lisa Schmid I was in it to win it

Lisa Schmid I was typing as fast as my little fingers would let me, and there were so many people There was… I started counting how many people were introducing themselves, and we have… we had over  people chatting

Lisa Schmid And so it was really hard for me to keep up with the conversation, and, like, I would pop in later on over the, you know, the next few days, and, like, say hi and continue it, because there was, like, I couldn't keep up with it

Beth McMullen Yeah

Lisa Schmid Which was awesome, and there were so many people that were coming in that used to be on, you know, when it was Twitter, that used to do that kid-lit chat, that were popping in and going, oh my god, this feels like, you know, old school, and this feels like home, it's so nice to see so many familiar faces, and people I haven't seen in ages

Lisa Schmid that used to be, you know, somebody I'd follow, or they'd follow me, whatever Now I'm starting to see them, and I'm like, oh my god, I forgot all about them! Like, there they are! Like, just names I've recognized So, if you're looking for, you know, Kidlit community and want to chat, just pop on over It's fun

Beth McMullen Yeah, and it's the kind of thing you can bounce in and out of, right? Because it's… you stay, you say hello, you go eat your dinner, you come back, you… whatever So, it's very casual, and the cool thing is that…

Beth McMullen after it ended, the discussion continued, right? Because it's still there, it's still, you know, we have left the immediate interactive space, but, like, it's still there, so you can continue to engage for days afterwards, and that's a pretty cool… Yeah, people are still talking

Lisa Schmid Like, I'll leave, you know, I'll leave, you know, pop back over to mine, and then I'll come back a couple days later, and I'm like, oh my god, like, all these people are still talking, so…

Beth McMullen You're like, I went off to do some work, and I came back, and it's still chaos

Beth McMullen So, let's move on to…

Beth McMullen conferences There's a few reasons why this kind of came front of mind for us We've had some questions from listeners about…

Beth McMullen You know, you've got conferences, you've got festivals, you've got professional organization classes that are offered, you've got, you know, tons of editors who will offer classes, so, like

Beth McMullen what are things you should be… looking for? Because all of this is gonna set you back money, and some quite a bit of money, and some will involve travel, and airplanes, and hotels, and rental cars So, this is not, like, a cheap thing in some cases, so…

Beth McMullen You want to be, I think, aware of what you want

Beth McMullen out of these things And they're all a little different, too

Lisa Schmid There's a couple of, threads that caught my eye One was there was a Readers and Dreamers conference that, I think it was a pretty big conference

Lisa Schmid And people… authors were, you know, paying for travel expenses, and also paying for their books to be delivered

Lisa Schmid To this location, and then they canceled, at the last minute, and so there was this huge… and I don't know what's transpired since then, I just was following the threads and how much this was affecting everyone

Lisa Schmid And I don't know what you really do to, like

Lisa Schmid to… to protect yourself from something like this, maybe look at the track record, and I think, from what I understand, I could be very wrong, was I… you know what, I don't even want to say, I don't know But it did get canceled, and like, I don't know, how do you protect yourself from that?

Beth McMullen You've got that… That's stock now, right?

Lisa Schmid Yeah

Beth McMullen you're gonna sell a few hundred books at this conference Yeah You've now…

Beth McMullen paid for yourself a few hundred books, and you're bring… you're having to send it there, and you probably have to have some sort of booth set up, or you have some… you know, you do all this effort, and then it's like, well, now I have…

Beth McMullen all these books I don't think there is a way to protect yourself, quite honestly I think you're right Look at the track record Has this conference been around for a while? Does it have a good reputation? Who goes to it? You know, what is its purpose? Is its purpose to help you sell books? Is its purpose to help you network? Are they offering…

Beth McMullen a one-on-one with agents, or editors, or like, what's it… what's it for? What's its purpose? And then… then you take the… then you take the risk, and sometimes you end up with, like

Beth McMullen Tickets you can't change, airline tickets you can't change, or hotels that keep your deposit, because it's too late to cancel, and…

Beth McMullen I also think you look at the governing body of whoever is running this conference Now, is it just a bunch of people who are like, hey, let's have a conference, and they're operating on wildly thin margins?

Beth McMullen then maybe you're a little bit, like, less comfortable with that, because one thing goes wrong, for instance, you can't, you know, you've decided you're gonna make your money off a deal with a hotel where you're holding the conference, and you don't get enough people booking, now suddenly you can't hold the conference because you don't have any money So if, like

Beth McMullen If they're operating in that fashion, then you're definitely, you know, at least…

Beth McMullen at least protect yourself in, you know, not buying non-refundable tickets, or things like that Right I think you… sometimes you have to take a chance, but…

Beth McMullen I think you should be a little…

Beth McMullen wary of things that are, maybe not as solid as some other conferences that have been around and operating for a long time Doesn't mean that those old-school conferences don't go belly-up, too, nowadays, but you feel a little bit more comfortable about it, because they're well-established

Lisa Schmid Yeah, it's tough Like, that's… you know, I… again, I don't know the specifics, I just… it was such a bummer for all those authors that were coming

Lisa Schmid And hopefully, and I… from what I saw, there was… there was, like, different bookstores and different people, you know, it's a community People are all trying to find ways to help them, so that's always reassuring, and it was nice to see that, but again

Lisa Schmid I think it's just doing as much research and figuring out what your contingency plan is in case it gets canceled at the last minute

Lisa Schmid How do you return those books? Can you, you know, what is… it's just a lot A lot goes with it So, and it's… there's a lot

Beth McMullen It's managing… it's managing risk, and I think that's, like, that is part of it, especially if you're an author, and you tend to be a one-person shop, you're not part of a big company You know, even if you publish with a big company, you still are kind of a one-person business Like, can you…

Beth McMullen Are you willing to accept the level of risk that comes with this outlay of money up front by you that you may not recoup?

Lisa Schmid Yeah

Beth McMullen I think it's… I think it's important when you're looking at…

Beth McMullen Conferences, festivals, classes, to figure out what you want to get out of it

Beth McMullen up front, like, almost have a set of questions that you're going to ask yourself about each of the events And for instance, maybe there's a conference in, I don't know, Palm Springs, California, and you're like, I just want to go to Palm Springs Well, great, then you go to the, you know, because that's your purpose, but if your purpose is, I want to meet…

Beth McMullen I want FaceTime with agents, or I want FaceTime with editors, then you really have to make sure that that's something you're gonna get with the outlay of money that you're making to attend

Lisa Schmid Right And we heard… we heard a story recently from… I don't even know who it was from, but…

Beth McMullen About a conference, do you want to tell the story?

Lisa Schmid Yeah, it just… it was a conference where people weren't getting enough FaceTime with the editors and agents, and they were frustrated, and you know, I know that

Lisa Schmid when I've gone to conferences in the past, and, like, maybe even for, like, when I wasn't agented, I… I was going to meet the agents Like, that was my purpose for going And so I think it's a valid question to ask before you register when

Lisa Schmid You know, I would… I would always ask around, like, in your writing community What do you think of this workshop? Have you been to it before? You know, check out the faculty You know, there may not be any agents that you want to work with You know, just before you're, like, signing up for a workshop, figure out who's…

Lisa Schmid who's involved, like you said But also, I think it's okay to ask, like, am I gonna have, like, one-on-one time, an opportunity to speak with the agents or speak with the editors?

Lisa Schmid Because if you don't, if you get there and you find that you… you don't have that opportunity, it can be really frustrating Like, I would be, like, frustrated

Lisa Schmid About that

Beth McMullen And oftentimes, you can look at the,

Beth McMullen The event agenda, and if it has,

Beth McMullen You know, social hours where the agents and editors and whoever it is that you want to make contact with are going to be…

Beth McMullen at that event, at the same time as you, meaning you have this social opportunity to get to know some of them, then that's great, like, but…

Beth McMullen Definitely do your homework, and don't accept the marketing language that they're going to serve up to you, because like anything

Beth McMullen you have to peel back a couple layers of the onion to see what you're really gonna get You know, they may say, you're getting heaps of time with, you know, top  agents, blah, blah, blah, and what that really means is that

Beth McMullen there's one cocktail hour, and it's gonna be you and  other attendees and  agents, which means you're not gonna get to talk to them So, that doesn't really give you much bang for your buck, right? So, you have to be super critical before you lay down the money I mean, fortunately, nowadays, we have all these

Beth McMullen options for… A lot of conferences will have an online option, and you see that with bigger conferences, so you can attend some of the virtual events, get a sense for it, and then maybe the next year you actually go So you have some ways to kind of

Beth McMullen Poke at these things and see if they're a good fit for you

Lisa Schmid I think if you're going, because I'm just thinking about, like, an event I went to one time, but I think if you're going, it's a good idea, like, if you're going to spend the money to be there, maybe pay that extra for a one-on-one with an agent or an editor, because a lot of times they'll do that

Lisa Schmid But you have to keep in mind, like, when you're going to these things, there's… everybody wants to talk to the agent or editor, and they're just… I just have visions of being absolutely wiped out by the end of the day, that they're just like, oh my god, here comes another person that wants a little bite of me Do you know what I mean?

Beth McMullen Yeah!

Lisa Schmid the aisle

Beth McMullen Yeah!

Lisa Schmid I remember one time when I was down at LA, SCBWI, and there was, like, it was the big keynote speaker was going on, and a friend of mine had come to see me She's, like, a… somebody who works in Hollywood and is in that whole scene over there, and it was…

Lisa Schmid a keynote speaker was going on, and I snuck away, and I went into the bar to meet her, and when I was in the bar, there was, like, a group of agents

Lisa Schmid all sitting around together, and they're just probably like, you know, all the, you know, all the writers are in the conference room And I saw them, and I was like, hey, how's it going? And they all looked at me

Lisa Schmid Like, they were vampires that had just been hit by sunlight They're like…

Beth McMullen And you were like, whoa!

Lisa Schmid Swear to God, my friend looked at me, and she's like, agents? And I'm like, yeah

Beth McMullen Oh my god, that is…

Beth McMullen It's really funny, I can totally see that happening

Lisa Schmid It was so funny, and I just thought to myself, you know what, leave them alone, because they're probably just like, we just need a moment, just give us a moment

Beth McMullen For sure Feeling like the last bit of blood has been sucked out of them, I know

Beth McMullen Authors, we get desperate, and we get, like, you know, a little out of our minds, and yeah But definitely, like, just do your homework, because it is really disappointing to be expecting to go and do something, and then have it not happen You know, I think, like

Beth McMullen craft classes and things like that are different You usually will know very… in quite a bit of detail what you're gonna get

Lisa Schmid Wrath

Beth McMullen And those almost always go off exactly as planned, because they're almost always virtual these days, and it's just an easier thing to do You just sit down at your laptop and…

Beth McMullen and participate, so… but it's, you know, read the fine print, understand what's happening, understand who's in charge Like everything, you need to do a little bit of poking around, and don't believe what's just served up to you as the description of the best time of your life, you know?

Lisa Schmid Yeah, I, my very first, workshop that I ever went to was the Big Sur, and it was literally the first thing I'd ever done, it was my introduction to Kidlit, and I was just like, this is… and I… I think I told this story before where I thought I was bringing my silly little

Beth McMullen masterpiece

Lisa Schmid my masterpiece that was publication-ready Anyway, I go in, you know, like all bright-eyed and bushy tail I mean, by the end of the conference, I was not But I remember, somehow, I ended up

Lisa Schmid seated next to either an agent or an editor, and I thought, oh, this is my chance, and I started pitching them And I will… and I'm thinking, like, I remember very clearly the look on her face, like, oh, crap Like, I just want to eat my dinner

Beth McMullen is happening right now I just want to eat my chicken Leave me alone

Lisa Schmid And then I, like, immediately shut down I mean, I learned so much about etiquette, things you should and shouldn't do Like, I immediately registered, -oh, I've made a big mistake here So you gotta pick and choose, but, like, for example, I'm doing… there's a workshop I'm going to, it's an online one this Saturday about chapter books

Lisa Schmid And it's an editor with Scholastic, and I was just like, oh, I wonder if I'll have a chance to do, like, a Q&A, and then, of course, I'm immediately thinking, can I ask if my agent can subter? You know, like, I'm already

Beth McMullen Yeah

Lisa Schmid ways to work the system, without being offensive, but that's what we do, and that's

Beth McMullen Yeah

Lisa Schmid kind of figure out…

Beth McMullen You have to do, you have to do that, because…

Beth McMullen Nobody's gonna come knocking on your door and say, hey, do you want a writing contract?

Beth McMullen You know, I mean, this is a… this is a… this is a…

Beth McMullen Insanely competitive business that we're in, and it's…

Beth McMullen If you are not operating on that level, you're gonna miss opportunities, and you may end up with no opportunities, because you're not trying to game the system It's just part and parcel of the gig I actually was working with somebody who's working on query letters right now, and

Beth McMullen It's funny, because when you have people who are really new, this… she's written a book, it's her first book, she's on the young side,

Beth McMullen And she's working on these query letters, and in the back of my head, I'm like, how much do I tell her about the reality of this business?

Beth McMullen Like, you really do have to hustle

Beth McMullen I think when I talk to new writers, like, who are interested in, like, coaching or whatever,

Beth McMullen I… I am honest, but I try not to be negative, because I would like for people to know that…

Beth McMullen You are engaging in a difficult

Beth McMullen journey Like, this is gonna be… have moments that feel really hard, and you should know that If you go in thinking it's easy, and that getting published is, like, no big deal, then you're gonna be shocked I don't want

Beth McMullen shocked, but I also don't want them to be sad, you know? So, like, here's a little bit of reality, here's a little bit of positivity, and, you know, hopefully that gives you, like, a solid ground to stand on

Lisa Schmid Yeah, and I think it's… I think it's okay to be honest about it I… I know when I went in, I had no idea how difficult it was Like, if I… if I know… if I knew then what I know now

Lisa Schmid I don't know!

Beth McMullen You would be like, peace out No thank you I am not doing this

Lisa Schmid I'm gonna make… I'm gonna become a cupcake salesperson instead I don't know what I would have done So it's just one of those things, it's like, it's almost good that you don't know, because… Yes

Lisa Schmid Just, you just dive in, and then it's just that ignorance is bliss, is, like, it's part of the, you know, part of what happens, and it's just, like, sometimes it's just nice to, you know, let them… hopefully they have a long, joyful ride, and

Beth McMullen Totally, totally

Lisa Schmid wish for everyone Like, when I was just looking at this, these two gals, I was just like, I just want the best for you Like, keep it going, and like, such cute books, and so sweet, and…

Beth McMullen It is so funny, I mean, it is

Lisa Schmid They're like, stay away from the toad in the corner!

Beth McMullen Chatode in the end, she will… yeah, she will poison you with her dear negative

Lisa Schmid activity

Beth McMullen pots

Lisa Schmid Oh, you can feel it coming off our…

Lisa Schmid I was like, right, like, as I was sitting there

Beth McMullen Oh

Lisa Schmid I told you about this This guy, like, one of… it was a teacher, like, you know, showed up in front of me, and he was one of the few people that, was a fifth grade teacher, which is my, you know, target market, and he's, like, pulling up his… my reviews right in front of me, and I'm just like, oh my god

Beth McMullen like that Like, what did he want you to do? Like, was he making you prove that you were real, or…

Lisa Schmid So, I don't know

Beth McMullen Oh my gosh I don't know that I would have had kind words for him in that moment, but… That was fine You know, that's me I was like, okay Anyway… Alright, well…

Beth McMullen This is what… this is our stuff We get to cross a couple things off our… our list of topics now, so I'm glad That makes me feel good I love crossing things off lists

Lisa Schmid Yes, well, and just to recap, like, if you're interested in workshops, because this gal was like, are they worth going to? Yes, workshops are fun, and they're very much worth your time and energy I've learned a lot at workshops, and I've met amazing people It's just my recommendation is ask around, research the faculty, see if they're

Beth McMullen Do your homework

Lisa Schmid Yeah, do your homework, and if you don't know where to find workshops, I always, like, there was a time last year where I was just, like, you know, shooting everyone messages, like, where's, you know, where's the workshop happening? I was in the mood to go to one Ask your writer friends You know, that's… that's where you find out, like, who's got the… who's got the

Beth McMullen to the threads chat, and pose the question

Beth McMullen Let's right

Lisa Schmid Writers with Wrinkles Like, I'm always looking for stuff Like, I just posted, in the, the Writers with Wrinkles room, the waiting room, there's a, an MG Hub pitch party

Beth McMullen Oh, cool, I actually saw that That looks

Lisa Schmid Oh my god!

Beth McMullen long

Lisa Schmid And it's like, it's not online, and it's perfect if you're querying

Lisa Schmid So, it's just, if, you know, join the waiting room, it's in there So, whenever I see stuff like that, I post it, or if I see a workshop that I've been to, that I know is fun, or whatever, like, go in there, or if you have a question, just post it, and we'll

Beth McMullen That's…

Lisa Schmid Or somebody else in the

Beth McMullen Yeah

Lisa Schmid We'll answer it

Beth McMullen Yeah No, it's a really good resource, and there is the link to join It's a private Facebook group

Beth McMullen The link to join it is in the podcast notes, so you can find it right there It does… we do require you answer a few questions before you come in, but it's nothing hard, so everyone can do it

Beth McMullen So yeah, join us there Lisa's really good about putting stuff like that in I tend to post, like, news, publishing news, that I stumble upon So we're trying to keep you well-rounded, you know? Yes Learn a little of this, a little of that, it's all good

Beth McMullen All good Alright, that is it for today's episode We are back next week with author Fleur Bradley

Beth McMullen Who was, I think, our, like, third guest, Season , or something like that She's a repeat, but from literally, like,  years ago, we love Fleur She's amazing She has a new writing craft book out on middle grade mystery that we love We love this book, so we'll be talking to her about that and a few other things And please remember to leave a review

Beth McMullen And sign up for our newsletter at our website, writerswithrinklesnet We really need those reviews, they help us a lot, so thank you in advance So, until next time, happy reading, writing, and listening Bye, Lisa!

Lisa Schmid Hi, Beth Bye, guys