{"version":"1.0.0","segments":[{"speaker":"Andrew Jones","startTime":15.119,"endTime":16.6,"body":"This is the ChewintheCud"},{"speaker":"Andrew Jones","startTime":16.6,"endTime":18.76,"body":"Podcast — conversations for the"},{"speaker":"Andrew Jones","startTime":18.76,"endTime":19.92,"body":"dairy industry,"},{"speaker":"Andrew Jones","startTime":19.92,"endTime":21.199,"body":"produced in the South West of"},{"speaker":"Andrew Jones","startTime":21.199,"endTime":22.879,"body":"England and listened to around"},{"speaker":"Andrew Jones","startTime":22.879,"endTime":23.8,"body":"the world."},{"speaker":"Andrew Jones","startTime":35.52,"endTime":37.2,"body":"Hello, my name is Andrew Jones"},{"speaker":"Andrew Jones","startTime":37.2,"endTime":39.679,"body":"and with me as always is Sarah"},{"speaker":"Andrew Jones","startTime":39.679,"endTime":39.96,"body":"Bolt."},{"speaker":"Andrew Jones","startTime":39.96,"endTime":41.2,"body":"How are you doing, Sarah?"},{"speaker":"Sarah Bolt","startTime":41.359,"endTime":42.84,"body":"I'm very well, thank you Andrew."},{"speaker":"Sarah Bolt","startTime":42.84,"endTime":46.28,"body":"Just been on holiday for a week,"},{"speaker":"Sarah Bolt","startTime":42.84,"endTime":46.28,"body":"so I'm fully refreshed."},{"speaker":"Sarah Bolt","startTime":46.28,"endTime":47.159,"body":"How are you?"},{"speaker":"Andrew Jones","startTime":47.0,"endTime":47.6,"body":"Yeah, I'm all right."},{"speaker":"Andrew Jones","startTime":47.6,"endTime":48.88,"body":"Go anywhere exciting?"},{"speaker":"Sarah Bolt","startTime":49.32,"endTime":53.32,"body":"I've been up to Yorkshire, so,"},{"speaker":"Sarah Bolt","startTime":49.32,"endTime":53.32,"body":"uh, quite a long way north from,"},{"speaker":"Sarah Bolt","startTime":53.32,"endTime":54.6,"body":"uh, from Somerset here."},{"speaker":"Sarah Bolt","startTime":54.6,"endTime":57.759,"body":"And, uh, lots of silage and"},{"speaker":"Sarah Bolt","startTime":54.6,"endTime":57.759,"body":"haymaking going on."},{"speaker":"Sarah Bolt","startTime":57.759,"endTime":60.92,"body":"Um, certainly a bit cooler than"},{"speaker":"Sarah Bolt","startTime":57.759,"endTime":60.92,"body":"than down here."},{"speaker":"Sarah Bolt","startTime":60.92,"endTime":62.679,"body":"So it was all very nice."},{"speaker":"Andrew Jones","startTime":62.52,"endTime":63.96,"body":"It's certainly been a bit warm."},{"speaker":"Andrew Jones","startTime":63.96,"endTime":66.239,"body":"And on that note, I hope"},{"speaker":"Andrew Jones","startTime":63.96,"endTime":66.239,"body":"everyone's been looking after"},{"speaker":"Andrew Jones","startTime":66.239,"endTime":71.12,"body":"themselves and the cows, making"},{"speaker":"Andrew Jones","startTime":66.239,"endTime":71.12,"body":"sure you're keeping in the shade"},{"speaker":"Andrew Jones","startTime":71.12,"endTime":73.599,"body":"and keeping well hydrated."},{"speaker":"Andrew Jones","startTime":73.599,"endTime":76.519,"body":"Um, and also I'm shamelessly"},{"speaker":"Andrew Jones","startTime":73.599,"endTime":76.519,"body":"going to say, if you haven't"},{"speaker":"Andrew Jones","startTime":76.519,"endTime":79.719,"body":"already, listen back to our"},{"speaker":"Andrew Jones","startTime":76.519,"endTime":79.719,"body":"podcast from early May talking"},{"speaker":"Andrew Jones","startTime":79.719,"endTime":81.719,"body":"about skin cancer and melanoma."},{"speaker":"Andrew Jones","startTime":81.719,"endTime":83.84,"body":"Very, very topical or should be"},{"speaker":"Andrew Jones","startTime":83.84,"endTime":84.879,"body":"at the moment with the weather"},{"speaker":"Andrew Jones","startTime":84.879,"endTime":86.28,"body":"we've had."},{"speaker":"Andrew Jones","startTime":86.28,"endTime":88.12,"body":"Um, moving on to today's, we're"},{"speaker":"Andrew Jones","startTime":88.12,"endTime":89.599,"body":"talking to our guest about"},{"speaker":"Andrew Jones","startTime":89.599,"endTime":92.5,"body":"copper, um, and particularly"},{"speaker":"Andrew Jones","startTime":92.5,"endTime":93.92,"body":"excess copper."},{"speaker":"Andrew Jones","startTime":93.92,"endTime":96.28,"body":"Um, and I think, uh, I think"},{"speaker":"Andrew Jones","startTime":93.92,"endTime":96.28,"body":"they're right."},{"speaker":"Andrew Jones","startTime":96.28,"endTime":98.5,"body":"I mean, the facts show that, uh,"},{"speaker":"Andrew Jones","startTime":98.5,"endTime":101.0,"body":"we are probably overfeeding"},{"speaker":"Andrew Jones","startTime":101.0,"endTime":101.319,"body":"copper."},{"speaker":"Andrew Jones","startTime":101.319,"endTime":103.519,"body":"So it's one well worth listening"},{"speaker":"Andrew Jones","startTime":101.319,"endTime":103.519,"body":"to."},{"speaker":"Andrew Jones","startTime":103.519,"endTime":108.379,"body":"Also mentioned by our guest is"},{"speaker":"Andrew Jones","startTime":103.519,"endTime":108.379,"body":"the fact that she's working with"},{"speaker":"Andrew Jones","startTime":108.379,"endTime":111.2,"body":"a PhD student from Harper Adams."},{"speaker":"Andrew Jones","startTime":111.2,"endTime":114.84,"body":"Uh, and between them, they're"},{"speaker":"Andrew Jones","startTime":111.2,"endTime":114.84,"body":"looking to try and establish"},{"speaker":"Andrew Jones","startTime":114.84,"endTime":119.829,"body":"some baselines, some more up to"},{"speaker":"Andrew Jones","startTime":114.84,"endTime":119.829,"body":"date information for what calves"},{"speaker":"Andrew Jones","startTime":119.829,"endTime":123.15,"body":"and young stock should be having"},{"speaker":"Andrew Jones","startTime":119.829,"endTime":123.15,"body":"in terms of copper levels."},{"speaker":"Andrew Jones","startTime":123.15,"endTime":127.03,"body":"So if you're willing to"},{"speaker":"Andrew Jones","startTime":123.15,"endTime":127.03,"body":"participate and maybe have, um,"},{"speaker":"Andrew Jones","startTime":127.03,"endTime":129.99,"body":"some of your feed sampled, that"},{"speaker":"Andrew Jones","startTime":127.03,"endTime":129.99,"body":"could be your milk replacer and"},{"speaker":"Andrew Jones","startTime":129.99,"endTime":131.629,"body":"your young stock feed."},{"speaker":"Andrew Jones","startTime":131.629,"endTime":133.55,"body":"Um, there are links in today's"},{"speaker":"Andrew Jones","startTime":133.55,"endTime":135.99,"body":"show notes and on the article on"},{"speaker":"Andrew Jones","startTime":135.99,"endTime":139.25,"body":"the website, um, that link to,"},{"speaker":"Andrew Jones","startTime":139.25,"endTime":140.99,"body":"um, where you can find out more"},{"speaker":"Andrew Jones","startTime":140.99,"endTime":143.05,"body":"information about this and how"},{"speaker":"Andrew Jones","startTime":143.05,"endTime":146.229,"body":"you can participate in the"},{"speaker":"Andrew Jones","startTime":146.229,"endTime":147.83,"body":"survey, if that's what you want"},{"speaker":"Andrew Jones","startTime":147.83,"endTime":148.509,"body":"to do."},{"speaker":"Sarah Bolt","startTime":149.189,"endTime":150.389,"body":"It's always really important,"},{"speaker":"Sarah Bolt","startTime":150.389,"endTime":151.43,"body":"isn't it, that we can get as"},{"speaker":"Sarah Bolt","startTime":151.43,"endTime":153.03,"body":"many farmers participating in"},{"speaker":"Sarah Bolt","startTime":153.03,"endTime":154.31,"body":"these things as possible because"},{"speaker":"Sarah Bolt","startTime":154.31,"endTime":156.669,"body":"it all helps drive the knowledge"},{"speaker":"Sarah Bolt","startTime":156.669,"endTime":157.469,"body":"forward."},{"speaker":"Andrew Jones","startTime":157.349,"endTime":158.229,"body":"Well, exactly."},{"speaker":"Andrew Jones","startTime":158.229,"endTime":162.75,"body":"And I mean, as we discuss, um,"},{"speaker":"Andrew Jones","startTime":158.229,"endTime":162.75,"body":"in the podcast, it was where"},{"speaker":"Andrew Jones","startTime":162.75,"endTime":164.669,"body":"does today's level come from?"},{"speaker":"Andrew Jones","startTime":164.669,"endTime":166.949,"body":"And nobody seems to actually"},{"speaker":"Andrew Jones","startTime":164.669,"endTime":166.949,"body":"know."},{"speaker":"Andrew Jones","startTime":166.949,"endTime":169.43,"body":"It's just a line that everybody"},{"speaker":"Andrew Jones","startTime":166.949,"endTime":169.43,"body":"uses."},{"speaker":"Andrew Jones","startTime":169.43,"endTime":170.99,"body":"So, you know, it'd be really"},{"speaker":"Andrew Jones","startTime":170.99,"endTime":172.31,"body":"good, as you say, to get as many"},{"speaker":"Andrew Jones","startTime":172.31,"endTime":173.909,"body":"people participating as possible"},{"speaker":"Andrew Jones","startTime":173.909,"endTime":176.289,"body":"to try and find, uh, maybe a new"},{"speaker":"Andrew Jones","startTime":176.289,"endTime":179.09,"body":"level for what young stock"},{"speaker":"Andrew Jones","startTime":179.09,"endTime":180.27,"body":"should be."},{"speaker":"Andrew Jones","startTime":180.27,"endTime":183.909,"body":"Um, but other than that, I guess"},{"speaker":"Andrew Jones","startTime":180.27,"endTime":183.909,"body":"it's time to say go and enjoy."},{"speaker":"Kim Verschueren","startTime":193.75,"endTime":199.83,"body":"Farming today is a constant balance,"},{"speaker":"Kim Verschueren","startTime":193.75,"endTime":199.83,"body":"rising costs, tighter margins,"},{"speaker":"Kim Verschueren","startTime":199.83,"endTime":204.43,"body":"and the need to get more from every input."},{"speaker":"Kim Verschueren","startTime":199.83,"endTime":204.43,"body":"At Kemin, we understand the"},{"speaker":"Kim Verschueren","startTime":204.43,"endTime":210.629,"body":"complexity you manage every day."},{"speaker":"Kim Verschueren","startTime":204.43,"endTime":210.629,"body":"As a family-owned company,"},{"speaker":"Kim Verschueren","startTime":210.629,"endTime":216.629,"body":"we've built our business on helping producers"},{"speaker":"Kim Verschueren","startTime":210.629,"endTime":216.629,"body":"operate more efficiently and with greater confidence."},{"speaker":"Kim Verschueren","startTime":216.629,"endTime":220.03,"body":"That's why we work alongside you, delivering"},{"speaker":"Kim Verschueren","startTime":216.629,"endTime":220.03,"body":"science-backed solutions that support performance,"},{"speaker":"Kim Verschueren","startTime":220.03,"endTime":225.55,"body":"protect feed quality, and optimise results"},{"speaker":"Kim Verschueren","startTime":220.03,"endTime":225.55,"body":"across your operation. Kemin helps you turn"},{"speaker":"Kim Verschueren","startTime":225.55,"endTime":225.55,"body":"today's challenges into measurable progress"},{"speaker":"Kim Verschueren","startTime":225.55,"endTime":225.55,"body":"that drives long-term profitability."},{"speaker":"Andrew Jones","startTime":229.43,"endTime":237.46,"body":"This episode is brought to you by ChewintheCud Ltd —"},{"speaker":"Andrew Jones","startTime":229.43,"endTime":237.46,"body":"completely independent, practical nutrition advice"},{"speaker":"Andrew Jones","startTime":237.46,"endTime":246.78,"body":"for the dairy and beef industries. Whether you need"},{"speaker":"Andrew Jones","startTime":237.46,"endTime":246.78,"body":"nutrition support, CowSignals® advice and training,"},{"speaker":"Andrew Jones","startTime":246.78,"endTime":254.659,"body":"or RoMS accredited mobility scoring, we tailor the"},{"speaker":"Andrew Jones","startTime":246.78,"endTime":254.659,"body":"advice to your farm and your requirements."},{"speaker":"Andrew Jones","startTime":246.78,"endTime":254.659,"body":"For the full range of services visit"},{"speaker":"Andrew Jones","startTime":246.78,"endTime":254.659,"body":"www.chewinthecud.com or email nutrition@chewinthecud.com."},{"speaker":"Andrew Jones","startTime":258.62,"endTime":266.339,"body":"This episode is also brought to you by ChewintheCud Ltd —"},{"speaker":"Andrew Jones","startTime":258.62,"endTime":266.339,"body":"we now offer first aid training designed for agriculture"},{"speaker":"Andrew Jones","startTime":266.339,"endTime":275.779,"body":"and farming, delivered by a registered First Aid at Work"},{"speaker":"Andrew Jones","startTime":266.339,"endTime":275.779,"body":"trainer and experienced Minor Injuries Practitioner."},{"speaker":"Andrew Jones","startTime":275.779,"endTime":277.22,"body":"For more details visit www.chewinthecud.com"},{"speaker":"Andrew Jones","startTime":275.779,"endTime":277.22,"body":"or email training@chewinthecud.com."},{"speaker":"Andrew Jones","startTime":281.019,"endTime":282.819,"body":"Hello, I'm Andrew Jones,"},{"speaker":"Sarah Bolt","startTime":282.66,"endTime":284.06,"body":"and I'm Sarah Bolt."},{"speaker":"Andrew Jones","startTime":283.86,"endTime":287.06,"body":"Sarah's time today is kindly"},{"speaker":"Andrew Jones","startTime":283.86,"endTime":287.06,"body":"brought to you by Kingshay —"},{"speaker":"Andrew Jones","startTime":287.06,"endTime":289.5,"body":"and together we bring you the"},{"speaker":"Andrew Jones","startTime":287.06,"endTime":289.5,"body":"ChewintheCud Podcast,"},{"speaker":"Andrew Jones","startTime":289.5,"endTime":292.66,"body":"kitchen table conversations for"},{"speaker":"Andrew Jones","startTime":289.5,"endTime":292.66,"body":"the dairy industry."},{"speaker":"Sarah Bolt","startTime":292.459,"endTime":296.089,"body":"Whether you're a farmer,"},{"speaker":"Sarah Bolt","startTime":292.459,"endTime":296.089,"body":"adviser, processor, or anywhere"},{"speaker":"Sarah Bolt","startTime":296.089,"endTime":299.05,"body":"else in the supply chain, we"},{"speaker":"Sarah Bolt","startTime":296.089,"endTime":299.05,"body":"have topics and episodes that"},{"speaker":"Sarah Bolt","startTime":299.05,"endTime":300.37,"body":"will interest you."},{"speaker":"Andrew Jones","startTime":300.209,"endTime":301.37,"body":"We cover the practical and"},{"speaker":"Andrew Jones","startTime":301.37,"endTime":302.73,"body":"technical aspects of dairy"},{"speaker":"Andrew Jones","startTime":302.73,"endTime":303.449,"body":"farming."},{"speaker":"Sarah Bolt","startTime":303.529,"endTime":304.85,"body":"We want to make you think about"},{"speaker":"Sarah Bolt","startTime":304.85,"endTime":306.329,"body":"what you're doing and ask"},{"speaker":"Sarah Bolt","startTime":306.329,"endTime":307.569,"body":"yourself whether it can be done"},{"speaker":"Sarah Bolt","startTime":307.569,"endTime":308.569,"body":"differently."},{"speaker":"Andrew Jones","startTime":308.41,"endTime":311.209,"body":"Each episode, we speak with"},{"speaker":"Andrew Jones","startTime":308.41,"endTime":311.209,"body":"specialists from inside and"},{"speaker":"Andrew Jones","startTime":311.209,"endTime":314.85,"body":"outside the industry about their"},{"speaker":"Andrew Jones","startTime":311.209,"endTime":314.85,"body":"area of expertise."},{"speaker":"Sarah Bolt","startTime":314.93,"endTime":318.85,"body":"Subscribe and listen for free on"},{"speaker":"Sarah Bolt","startTime":314.93,"endTime":318.85,"body":"your favourite podcast platform."},{"speaker":"Andrew Jones","startTime":318.649,"endTime":323.73,"body":"Or sign up at www.chewinthecud.com"},{"speaker":"Andrew Jones","startTime":318.649,"endTime":323.73,"body":"for episode notifications so you"},{"speaker":"Andrew Jones","startTime":323.73,"endTime":325.17,"body":"never miss a release."},{"speaker":"Sarah Bolt","startTime":325.649,"endTime":327.009,"body":"You'll find links to all our"},{"speaker":"Sarah Bolt","startTime":327.009,"endTime":329.05,"body":"socials there too, including our"},{"speaker":"Sarah Bolt","startTime":329.05,"endTime":330.209,"body":"Instagram,"},{"speaker":"Sarah Bolt","startTime":330.209,"endTime":333.93,"body":"chewinthecudpodcast, all one word, no G!"},{"speaker":"Andrew Jones","startTime":334.129,"endTime":338.529,"body":"Or get in touch directly at"},{"speaker":"Andrew Jones","startTime":334.129,"endTime":338.529,"body":"podcast@chewinthecud.com."},{"speaker":"Sarah Bolt","startTime":338.81,"endTime":342.41,"body":"If you enjoy what we do, please"},{"speaker":"Sarah Bolt","startTime":338.81,"endTime":342.41,"body":"share it and leave us a review."},{"speaker":"Andrew Jones","startTime":342.569,"endTime":344.41,"body":"Enjoy today's episode."},{"speaker":"Andrew Jones","startTime":368.29,"endTime":370.889,"body":"Hello and welcome back to"},{"speaker":"Andrew Jones","startTime":368.29,"endTime":370.889,"body":"ChewintheCud Podcast."},{"speaker":"Andrew Jones","startTime":370.889,"endTime":372.97,"body":"And our guest today is Annie"},{"speaker":"Andrew Jones","startTime":370.889,"endTime":372.97,"body":"Williams."},{"speaker":"Andrew Jones","startTime":372.97,"endTime":373.81,"body":"Hello, Annie."},{"speaker":"Annie Williams","startTime":374.41,"endTime":375.37,"body":"Hi, Andrew."},{"speaker":"Andrew Jones","startTime":375.689,"endTime":376.769,"body":"How are you doing?"},{"speaker":"Annie Williams","startTime":377.37,"endTime":378.37,"body":"Yeah. I'm great, thank you."},{"speaker":"Annie Williams","startTime":378.37,"endTime":379.089,"body":"How are you?"},{"speaker":"Andrew Jones","startTime":379.129,"endTime":379.97,"body":"I'm not too bad."},{"speaker":"Andrew Jones","startTime":379.97,"endTime":380.61,"body":"Not too bad."},{"speaker":"Andrew Jones","startTime":380.61,"endTime":381.009,"body":"Thank you."},{"speaker":"Andrew Jones","startTime":381.009,"endTime":385.089,"body":"Now, before we get on to our"},{"speaker":"Andrew Jones","startTime":381.009,"endTime":385.089,"body":"topic, um, Annie and I have been"},{"speaker":"Andrew Jones","startTime":385.089,"endTime":386.009,"body":"talking about doing this."},{"speaker":"Andrew Jones","startTime":386.009,"endTime":386.81,"body":"It's been a little while."},{"speaker":"Andrew Jones","startTime":386.81,"endTime":387.889,"body":"We've talked about this, isn't"},{"speaker":"Andrew Jones","startTime":386.81,"endTime":387.889,"body":"it?"},{"speaker":"Andrew Jones","startTime":387.889,"endTime":390.009,"body":"But we finally, after Annie did"},{"speaker":"Andrew Jones","startTime":390.009,"endTime":392.129,"body":"some, uh, webinars earlier this"},{"speaker":"Andrew Jones","startTime":392.129,"endTime":393.97,"body":"year, and I was listening to the"},{"speaker":"Andrew Jones","startTime":393.97,"endTime":395.91,"body":"one with her on, uh, dairy, I"},{"speaker":"Andrew Jones","startTime":395.91,"endTime":397.029,"body":"sent her an email and said,"},{"speaker":"Andrew Jones","startTime":397.029,"endTime":398.329,"body":"Annie, it's about time we did"},{"speaker":"Andrew Jones","startTime":398.329,"endTime":398.61,"body":"this."},{"speaker":"Andrew Jones","startTime":398.61,"endTime":401.889,"body":"And I had several ideas which"},{"speaker":"Andrew Jones","startTime":398.61,"endTime":401.889,"body":"were transition minerals, decaf"},{"speaker":"Andrew Jones","startTime":401.889,"endTime":405.689,"body":"versus binder copper or more or"},{"speaker":"Andrew Jones","startTime":401.889,"endTime":405.689,"body":"less is better."},{"speaker":"Andrew Jones","startTime":405.689,"endTime":406.81,"body":"And Annie just came back and"},{"speaker":"Andrew Jones","startTime":406.81,"endTime":408.49,"body":"said, I really love to do excess"},{"speaker":"Andrew Jones","startTime":408.49,"endTime":408.93,"body":"copper."},{"speaker":"Andrew Jones","startTime":408.93,"endTime":411.17,"body":"And it's like, yeah, great,"},{"speaker":"Andrew Jones","startTime":408.93,"endTime":411.17,"body":"let's get on with it."},{"speaker":"Andrew Jones","startTime":411.17,"endTime":414.41,"body":"And then, funnily enough, we"},{"speaker":"Andrew Jones","startTime":411.17,"endTime":414.41,"body":"were both at the Treehouse"},{"speaker":"Andrew Jones","startTime":414.41,"endTime":416.25,"body":"Sustainability Conference this"},{"speaker":"Andrew Jones","startTime":414.41,"endTime":416.25,"body":"year, weren't we?"},{"speaker":"Andrew Jones","startTime":416.25,"endTime":419.17,"body":"And funnily enough, one of their"},{"speaker":"Andrew Jones","startTime":416.25,"endTime":419.17,"body":"speakers kind of was talking"},{"speaker":"Andrew Jones","startTime":419.17,"endTime":420.41,"body":"about the same thing."},{"speaker":"Annie Williams","startTime":421.81,"endTime":422.569,"body":"Yeah, definitely."},{"speaker":"Annie Williams","startTime":422.569,"endTime":426.209,"body":"I think it's a topic that's"},{"speaker":"Annie Williams","startTime":422.569,"endTime":426.209,"body":"maybe finally, some people would"},{"speaker":"Annie Williams","startTime":426.209,"endTime":428.61,"body":"probably say they've been"},{"speaker":"Annie Williams","startTime":426.209,"endTime":428.61,"body":"working in nutrition a long"},{"speaker":"Annie Williams","startTime":428.61,"endTime":432.17,"body":"time, finally getting some"},{"speaker":"Annie Williams","startTime":428.61,"endTime":432.17,"body":"attention, finally getting some"},{"speaker":"Annie Williams","startTime":432.17,"endTime":433.29,"body":"data behind it."},{"speaker":"Annie Williams","startTime":433.29,"endTime":436.529,"body":"And hopefully we can get to a"},{"speaker":"Annie Williams","startTime":433.29,"endTime":436.529,"body":"place where instead of talking"},{"speaker":"Annie Williams","startTime":436.529,"endTime":440.17,"body":"about it as a problem, we work"},{"speaker":"Annie Williams","startTime":436.529,"endTime":440.17,"body":"out how how we're solving it."},{"speaker":"Andrew Jones","startTime":440.529,"endTime":441.449,"body":"Which which would be good."},{"speaker":"Andrew Jones","startTime":441.449,"endTime":443.889,"body":"But before we do that, Annie,"},{"speaker":"Andrew Jones","startTime":441.449,"endTime":443.889,"body":"like usual, tell us a little bit"},{"speaker":"Andrew Jones","startTime":443.889,"endTime":446.29,"body":"about yourself and how you got"},{"speaker":"Andrew Jones","startTime":443.889,"endTime":446.29,"body":"to where you are today."},{"speaker":"Annie Williams","startTime":447.569,"endTime":449.649,"body":"Um, so probably like a lot of"},{"speaker":"Annie Williams","startTime":449.649,"endTime":451.329,"body":"people, I left school not"},{"speaker":"Annie Williams","startTime":451.329,"endTime":453.329,"body":"knowing what I wanted to do at"},{"speaker":"Annie Williams","startTime":453.329,"endTime":454.089,"body":"all."},{"speaker":"Annie Williams","startTime":454.089,"endTime":457.85,"body":"Uh, I knew I really liked"},{"speaker":"Annie Williams","startTime":454.089,"endTime":457.85,"body":"animals, primarily horses, which"},{"speaker":"Annie Williams","startTime":457.85,"endTime":459.97,"body":"is not something you should say"},{"speaker":"Annie Williams","startTime":457.85,"endTime":459.97,"body":"to a dairy audience."},{"speaker":"Annie Williams","startTime":459.97,"endTime":460.29,"body":"Really?"},{"speaker":"Annie Williams","startTime":460.29,"endTime":460.93,"body":"Is it?"},{"speaker":"Annie Williams","startTime":460.93,"endTime":463.49,"body":"But horses were were my thing"},{"speaker":"Annie Williams","startTime":460.93,"endTime":463.49,"body":"growing up."},{"speaker":"Annie Williams","startTime":463.49,"endTime":465.73,"body":"And I still have horses now."},{"speaker":"Annie Williams","startTime":465.73,"endTime":466.93,"body":"So I left school and thought,"},{"speaker":"Annie Williams","startTime":466.93,"endTime":468.529,"body":"I've got no idea what I want to"},{"speaker":"Annie Williams","startTime":468.529,"endTime":469.199,"body":"do."},{"speaker":"Annie Williams","startTime":469.199,"endTime":473.019,"body":"and I went to work for a year"},{"speaker":"Annie Williams","startTime":469.199,"endTime":473.019,"body":"for a company that some people"},{"speaker":"Annie Williams","startTime":473.019,"endTime":477.139,"body":"probably heard of called"},{"speaker":"Annie Williams","startTime":473.019,"endTime":477.139,"body":"Agroman, um, doing Boluses"},{"speaker":"Annie Williams","startTime":477.139,"endTime":480.759,"body":"probably most well known for the"},{"speaker":"Annie Williams","startTime":477.139,"endTime":480.759,"body":"all trace range."},{"speaker":"Annie Williams","startTime":480.759,"endTime":484.16,"body":"And at that point, I knew"},{"speaker":"Annie Williams","startTime":480.759,"endTime":484.16,"body":"absolutely nothing about"},{"speaker":"Annie Williams","startTime":484.16,"endTime":485.759,"body":"nutrition at all."},{"speaker":"Annie Williams","startTime":485.759,"endTime":490.1,"body":"They were just a business that"},{"speaker":"Annie Williams","startTime":485.759,"endTime":490.1,"body":"was local to me and would employ"},{"speaker":"Annie Williams","startTime":490.1,"endTime":492.12,"body":"me for a year without a degree."},{"speaker":"Annie Williams","startTime":492.12,"endTime":495.399,"body":"So I went and worked in various"},{"speaker":"Annie Williams","startTime":492.12,"endTime":495.399,"body":"departments for them."},{"speaker":"Annie Williams","startTime":495.399,"endTime":499.72,"body":"Really liked working in R\u0026D and"},{"speaker":"Annie Williams","startTime":495.399,"endTime":499.72,"body":"I thought, okay, if I'm going to"},{"speaker":"Annie Williams","startTime":499.72,"endTime":502.439,"body":"do that, maybe I should go and"},{"speaker":"Annie Williams","startTime":499.72,"endTime":502.439,"body":"get a degree."},{"speaker":"Annie Williams","startTime":502.439,"endTime":506.639,"body":"So I went to Liverpool to get a"},{"speaker":"Annie Williams","startTime":502.439,"endTime":506.639,"body":"degree in Bioveterinary science."},{"speaker":"Annie Williams","startTime":506.639,"endTime":508.579,"body":"Went straight on from there to"},{"speaker":"Annie Williams","startTime":508.579,"endTime":511.399,"body":"Nottingham to get a master's in"},{"speaker":"Annie Williams","startTime":511.399,"endTime":513.039,"body":"Animal Nutrition."},{"speaker":"Annie Williams","startTime":513.039,"endTime":514.72,"body":"All in between I worked for"},{"speaker":"Annie Williams","startTime":514.72,"endTime":516.72,"body":"Agroman, moving around various"},{"speaker":"Annie Williams","startTime":516.72,"endTime":518.36,"body":"departments, everything from the"},{"speaker":"Annie Williams","startTime":518.36,"endTime":521.259,"body":"factory floor to sales to"},{"speaker":"Annie Williams","startTime":521.259,"endTime":522.759,"body":"getting to do some hopefully"},{"speaker":"Annie Williams","startTime":522.759,"endTime":524.32,"body":"quite exciting R\u0026D on new"},{"speaker":"Annie Williams","startTime":524.32,"endTime":525.24,"body":"products."},{"speaker":"Annie Williams","startTime":525.24,"endTime":527.294,"body":"So then they employed me when I"},{"speaker":"Annie Williams","startTime":527.294,"endTime":528.95,"body":"finished my master's in animal"},{"speaker":"Annie Williams","startTime":528.95,"endTime":530.23,"body":"Nutrition."},{"speaker":"Annie Williams","startTime":530.23,"endTime":532.309,"body":"After about a year, I told them"},{"speaker":"Annie Williams","startTime":532.309,"endTime":533.47,"body":"I'm getting a little bit bored"},{"speaker":"Annie Williams","startTime":533.47,"endTime":533.909,"body":"now."},{"speaker":"Annie Williams","startTime":533.909,"endTime":536.029,"body":"I might go and do something"},{"speaker":"Annie Williams","startTime":533.909,"endTime":536.029,"body":"different."},{"speaker":"Annie Williams","startTime":536.029,"endTime":538.95,"body":"You'll get that impression"},{"speaker":"Annie Williams","startTime":536.029,"endTime":538.95,"body":"through my whole career that I"},{"speaker":"Annie Williams","startTime":538.95,"endTime":541.149,"body":"don't sit still for very long."},{"speaker":"Annie Williams","startTime":541.149,"endTime":543.549,"body":"And they said, okay, we really"},{"speaker":"Annie Williams","startTime":541.149,"endTime":543.549,"body":"don't want to lose you."},{"speaker":"Annie Williams","startTime":543.549,"endTime":548.83,"body":"How about you go and do a PhD"},{"speaker":"Annie Williams","startTime":543.549,"endTime":548.83,"body":"and we'll sponsor your PhD?"},{"speaker":"Annie Williams","startTime":548.83,"endTime":553.09,"body":"So I did that, went to Harper"},{"speaker":"Annie Williams","startTime":548.83,"endTime":553.09,"body":"Adams, did a PhD in mineral"},{"speaker":"Annie Williams","startTime":553.09,"endTime":559.269,"body":"bioavailability, specifically in"},{"speaker":"Annie Williams","startTime":553.09,"endTime":559.269,"body":"copper and zinc, and then again"},{"speaker":"Annie Williams","startTime":559.269,"endTime":561.95,"body":"took on a export role."},{"speaker":"Annie Williams","startTime":561.95,"endTime":566.629,"body":"So travelled around Europe, New"},{"speaker":"Annie Williams","startTime":561.95,"endTime":566.629,"body":"Zealand, South Africa for a"},{"speaker":"Annie Williams","startTime":566.629,"endTime":570.25,"body":"couple of years, spent about"},{"speaker":"Annie Williams","startTime":566.629,"endTime":570.25,"body":"seventy percent of my time"},{"speaker":"Annie Williams","startTime":570.25,"endTime":575.23,"body":"overseas selling boluses, giving"},{"speaker":"Annie Williams","startTime":570.25,"endTime":575.23,"body":"technical explanations on trace"},{"speaker":"Annie Williams","startTime":575.23,"endTime":578.99,"body":"elements, minerals, all that"},{"speaker":"Annie Williams","startTime":575.23,"endTime":578.99,"body":"sort of thing."},{"speaker":"Annie Williams","startTime":578.99,"endTime":581.75,"body":"Then decided maybe I wanted to"},{"speaker":"Annie Williams","startTime":578.99,"endTime":581.75,"body":"go and do something different."},{"speaker":"Annie Williams","startTime":581.75,"endTime":584.97,"body":"So took a job for what was HCL"},{"speaker":"Annie Williams","startTime":584.97,"endTime":586.809,"body":"at the time is now the The UK"},{"speaker":"Annie Williams","startTime":586.809,"endTime":590.09,"body":"Aquatic Centre did that for"},{"speaker":"Annie Williams","startTime":590.09,"endTime":592.07,"body":"three years and then when it"},{"speaker":"Annie Williams","startTime":592.07,"endTime":593.909,"body":"became the UK Aquatic Centre, my"},{"speaker":"Annie Williams","startTime":593.909,"endTime":596.269,"body":"role became much broader, so we"},{"speaker":"Annie Williams","startTime":596.269,"endTime":597.87,"body":"had to cover all sectors of"},{"speaker":"Annie Williams","startTime":597.87,"endTime":599.269,"body":"agriculture."},{"speaker":"Annie Williams","startTime":599.269,"endTime":602.909,"body":"I decided that leaving livestock"},{"speaker":"Annie Williams","startTime":599.269,"endTime":602.909,"body":"was not for me."},{"speaker":"Annie Williams","startTime":602.909,"endTime":606.909,"body":"I wanted to stay in livestock or"},{"speaker":"Annie Williams","startTime":602.909,"endTime":606.909,"body":"specifically in dairy."},{"speaker":"Annie Williams","startTime":606.909,"endTime":610.029,"body":"So I left there, set up my own"},{"speaker":"Annie Williams","startTime":610.029,"endTime":612.07,"body":"consultancy, doing mineral"},{"speaker":"Annie Williams","startTime":612.07,"endTime":614.95,"body":"nutrition on farm, and then also"},{"speaker":"Annie Williams","startTime":614.95,"endTime":616.909,"body":"took a job in sustainability for"},{"speaker":"Annie Williams","startTime":616.909,"endTime":617.59,"body":"Arla."},{"speaker":"Annie Williams","startTime":617.59,"endTime":622.009,"body":"So looking after what Arla do in"},{"speaker":"Annie Williams","startTime":617.59,"endTime":622.009,"body":"terms of feed, nutrition,"},{"speaker":"Annie Williams","startTime":622.009,"endTime":624.95,"body":"innovation on farm."},{"speaker":"Annie Williams","startTime":624.95,"endTime":629.289,"body":"During that time also did a"},{"speaker":"Annie Williams","startTime":624.95,"endTime":629.289,"body":"Nuffield scholarship which was"},{"speaker":"Annie Williams","startTime":629.289,"endTime":631.509,"body":"mineral advice in ruminants."},{"speaker":"Annie Williams","startTime":631.509,"endTime":633.19,"body":"Are we getting it right?"},{"speaker":"Annie Williams","startTime":633.19,"endTime":635.75,"body":"So trying to dig into the detail"},{"speaker":"Annie Williams","startTime":635.75,"endTime":638.47,"body":"of advice given on farm, whether"},{"speaker":"Annie Williams","startTime":638.47,"endTime":641.129,"body":"it's good advice, does it differ"},{"speaker":"Annie Williams","startTime":641.129,"endTime":643.23,"body":"countries globally who's giving"},{"speaker":"Annie Williams","startTime":643.23,"endTime":644.029,"body":"better advice?"},{"speaker":"Annie Williams","startTime":644.029,"endTime":647.379,"body":"Who's more ambitious and the"},{"speaker":"Annie Williams","startTime":644.029,"endTime":647.379,"body":"advice that they're giving."},{"speaker":"Annie Williams","startTime":647.379,"endTime":649.059,"body":"What can we learn?"},{"speaker":"Annie Williams","startTime":649.059,"endTime":652.279,"body":"And off the back of that, I've"},{"speaker":"Annie Williams","startTime":649.059,"endTime":652.279,"body":"been very lucky to now work in"},{"speaker":"Annie Williams","startTime":652.279,"endTime":656.299,"body":"terms of mineral consultancy in"},{"speaker":"Annie Williams","startTime":652.279,"endTime":656.299,"body":"the UK, but primarily actually"},{"speaker":"Annie Williams","startTime":656.299,"endTime":660.74,"body":"in the US and Canada is where I"},{"speaker":"Annie Williams","startTime":656.299,"endTime":660.74,"body":"have a lot of clients."},{"speaker":"Annie Williams","startTime":660.74,"endTime":663.539,"body":"And that kind of brings us up to"},{"speaker":"Annie Williams","startTime":660.74,"endTime":663.539,"body":"where we are today."},{"speaker":"Annie Williams","startTime":663.539,"endTime":667.759,"body":"So doing a split between"},{"speaker":"Annie Williams","startTime":663.539,"endTime":667.759,"body":"consultancy and a sustainability"},{"speaker":"Annie Williams","startTime":667.759,"endTime":669.62,"body":"global role at Arla."},{"speaker":"Andrew Jones","startTime":670.379,"endTime":671.62,"body":"Interesting day job."},{"speaker":"Andrew Jones","startTime":671.62,"endTime":674.82,"body":"Well interesting mix of jobs."},{"speaker":"Sarah Bolt","startTime":675.98,"endTime":678.72,"body":"Just goes to show you never know"},{"speaker":"Sarah Bolt","startTime":675.98,"endTime":678.72,"body":"where you're going to going to"},{"speaker":"Sarah Bolt","startTime":678.72,"endTime":680.82,"body":"go on your career journey."},{"speaker":"Annie Williams","startTime":681.5,"endTime":682.74,"body":"Absolutely not."},{"speaker":"Annie Williams","startTime":682.74,"endTime":683.779,"body":"Take the opportunities."},{"speaker":"Annie Williams","startTime":683.779,"endTime":684.7,"body":"You never know."},{"speaker":"Andrew Jones","startTime":685.58,"endTime":689.1,"body":"Well I think we should start"},{"speaker":"Andrew Jones","startTime":685.58,"endTime":689.1,"body":"with some basics."},{"speaker":"Andrew Jones","startTime":689.1,"endTime":690.179,"body":"But before we do, I mean, I"},{"speaker":"Andrew Jones","startTime":690.179,"endTime":691.98,"body":"guess I should sort of, I"},{"speaker":"Andrew Jones","startTime":691.98,"endTime":693.039,"body":"suppose, set the scene a little"},{"speaker":"Andrew Jones","startTime":693.039,"endTime":693.179,"body":"bit."},{"speaker":"Andrew Jones","startTime":693.179,"endTime":694.74,"body":"I know myself, I've come across"},{"speaker":"Andrew Jones","startTime":694.74,"endTime":696.419,"body":"clients that you look at their"},{"speaker":"Andrew Jones","startTime":696.419,"endTime":698.059,"body":"minerals and when you get"},{"speaker":"Andrew Jones","startTime":698.059,"endTime":699.22,"body":"someone else to look at them,"},{"speaker":"Andrew Jones","startTime":699.22,"endTime":700.299,"body":"you know, minerals aren't my"},{"speaker":"Andrew Jones","startTime":700.299,"endTime":700.82,"body":"specialty."},{"speaker":"Andrew Jones","startTime":700.82,"endTime":702.059,"body":"So I usually do get somebody"},{"speaker":"Andrew Jones","startTime":702.059,"endTime":704.32,"body":"else involved to get comments"},{"speaker":"Andrew Jones","startTime":704.32,"endTime":705.779,"body":"going."},{"speaker":"Andrew Jones","startTime":705.779,"endTime":708.46,"body":"Well, there are an excess copper"},{"speaker":"Andrew Jones","startTime":705.779,"endTime":708.46,"body":"really."},{"speaker":"Andrew Jones","startTime":708.46,"endTime":709.539,"body":"And they're like, yeah, yeah,"},{"speaker":"Andrew Jones","startTime":708.46,"endTime":709.539,"body":"yeah."},{"speaker":"Andrew Jones","startTime":709.539,"endTime":713.5,"body":"And this is from another"},{"speaker":"Andrew Jones","startTime":709.539,"endTime":713.5,"body":"manufacturer here in the UK."},{"speaker":"Andrew Jones","startTime":713.5,"endTime":715.659,"body":"And I'm even going to take a"},{"speaker":"Andrew Jones","startTime":713.5,"endTime":715.659,"body":"step back."},{"speaker":"Andrew Jones","startTime":715.659,"endTime":720.279,"body":"I mean, um, I'm going to say"},{"speaker":"Andrew Jones","startTime":715.659,"endTime":720.279,"body":"thirty five years ago now"},{"speaker":"Andrew Jones","startTime":720.279,"endTime":723.46,"body":"showing my age, unfortunately,"},{"speaker":"Andrew Jones","startTime":720.279,"endTime":723.46,"body":"you know, I certainly remember"},{"speaker":"Andrew Jones","startTime":723.46,"endTime":728.48,"body":"my father jabbing cows with um,"},{"speaker":"Andrew Jones","startTime":723.46,"endTime":728.48,"body":"copper under the skin, uh,"},{"speaker":"Andrew Jones","startTime":728.48,"endTime":730.98,"body":"because it was felt that it was"},{"speaker":"Andrew Jones","startTime":728.48,"endTime":730.98,"body":"needed because we had a"},{"speaker":"Andrew Jones","startTime":730.98,"endTime":733.659,"body":"fertility problem and well,"},{"speaker":"Andrew Jones","startTime":730.98,"endTime":733.659,"body":"that's what I remember of it."},{"speaker":"Andrew Jones","startTime":733.659,"endTime":736.299,"body":"I may be wrong, you know, it's a"},{"speaker":"Andrew Jones","startTime":733.659,"endTime":736.299,"body":"long time ago and I wasn't"},{"speaker":"Andrew Jones","startTime":736.299,"endTime":739.46,"body":"involved in the farming the way"},{"speaker":"Andrew Jones","startTime":736.299,"endTime":739.46,"body":"that I later became."},{"speaker":"Andrew Jones","startTime":739.46,"endTime":742.86,"body":"Um, so, so there's been a lot"},{"speaker":"Andrew Jones","startTime":739.46,"endTime":742.86,"body":"about copper in the past."},{"speaker":"Andrew Jones","startTime":742.86,"endTime":744.98,"body":"And I suppose historically"},{"speaker":"Andrew Jones","startTime":742.86,"endTime":744.98,"body":"people have thought it's a good"},{"speaker":"Andrew Jones","startTime":744.98,"endTime":749.179,"body":"thing, but maybe why don't we"},{"speaker":"Andrew Jones","startTime":744.98,"endTime":749.179,"body":"start a little bit, um, with the"},{"speaker":"Andrew Jones","startTime":749.179,"endTime":751.62,"body":"different types of copper"},{"speaker":"Andrew Jones","startTime":749.179,"endTime":751.62,"body":"available just to give people a"},{"speaker":"Andrew Jones","startTime":751.62,"endTime":753.82,"body":"bit of reminder of the"},{"speaker":"Andrew Jones","startTime":751.62,"endTime":753.82,"body":"difference between Sulphates and"},{"speaker":"Andrew Jones","startTime":753.82,"endTime":757.84,"body":"chelates and the different, the"},{"speaker":"Andrew Jones","startTime":753.82,"endTime":757.84,"body":"different oxides and what all"},{"speaker":"Andrew Jones","startTime":757.84,"endTime":761.5,"body":"those things mean before we"},{"speaker":"Andrew Jones","startTime":757.84,"endTime":761.5,"body":"actually get into the, um, bits"},{"speaker":"Andrew Jones","startTime":761.5,"endTime":763.1,"body":"and pieces about copper."},{"speaker":"Annie Williams","startTime":764.1,"endTime":765.179,"body":"Yeah. Of course."},{"speaker":"Annie Williams","startTime":765.179,"endTime":766.82,"body":"I know you're right, Andrew."},{"speaker":"Annie Williams","startTime":766.82,"endTime":768.419,"body":"Maybe we should caveat this with"},{"speaker":"Annie Williams","startTime":768.419,"endTime":770.259,"body":"deficiency still does exist,"},{"speaker":"Annie Williams","startTime":770.259,"endTime":771.659,"body":"even in a world where we're"},{"speaker":"Annie Williams","startTime":771.659,"endTime":772.98,"body":"primarily talking about"},{"speaker":"Annie Williams","startTime":772.98,"endTime":774.259,"body":"excesses."},{"speaker":"Annie Williams","startTime":774.259,"endTime":776.419,"body":"Um, in terms of different types."},{"speaker":"Annie Williams","startTime":776.419,"endTime":778.299,"body":"There's copper oxide."},{"speaker":"Annie Williams","startTime":778.299,"endTime":779.34,"body":"Copper sulfate."},{"speaker":"Annie Williams","startTime":779.34,"endTime":782.82,"body":"They would be what we classify"},{"speaker":"Annie Williams","startTime":779.34,"endTime":782.82,"body":"as inorganics."},{"speaker":"Annie Williams","startTime":782.82,"endTime":786.7,"body":"That would be where we, when we"},{"speaker":"Annie Williams","startTime":782.82,"endTime":786.7,"body":"started supplementing cows with"},{"speaker":"Annie Williams","startTime":786.7,"endTime":790.7,"body":"copper, we would have been using"},{"speaker":"Annie Williams","startTime":786.7,"endTime":790.7,"body":"one of those two sources."},{"speaker":"Annie Williams","startTime":790.7,"endTime":794.539,"body":"And in the grand scheme, of all"},{"speaker":"Annie Williams","startTime":790.7,"endTime":794.539,"body":"the copper supplements that are"},{"speaker":"Annie Williams","startTime":794.539,"endTime":798.659,"body":"out there, they would have"},{"speaker":"Annie Williams","startTime":794.539,"endTime":798.659,"body":"relatively low bioavailability."},{"speaker":"Annie Williams","startTime":798.659,"endTime":800.759,"body":"There tend to be what we find in"},{"speaker":"Annie Williams","startTime":800.759,"endTime":802.94,"body":"standard mineral packs or"},{"speaker":"Annie Williams","startTime":802.94,"endTime":805.34,"body":"buckets, licks, boluses,"},{"speaker":"Annie Williams","startTime":805.34,"endTime":807.419,"body":"drenches, all that sort of thing"},{"speaker":"Annie Williams","startTime":807.419,"endTime":808.74,"body":"would tend to be one of those"},{"speaker":"Annie Williams","startTime":808.74,"endTime":810.299,"body":"inorganic sources."},{"speaker":"Annie Williams","startTime":810.299,"endTime":811.58,"body":"And then I guess as we've seen"},{"speaker":"Annie Williams","startTime":811.58,"endTime":813.259,"body":"the mineral market develop,"},{"speaker":"Annie Williams","startTime":813.259,"endTime":815.46,"body":"there's new sources available on"},{"speaker":"Annie Williams","startTime":815.46,"endTime":816.059,"body":"the market."},{"speaker":"Annie Williams","startTime":816.059,"endTime":820.129,"body":"So probably the critical ones"},{"speaker":"Annie Williams","startTime":816.059,"endTime":820.129,"body":"being a chelated."},{"speaker":"Annie Williams","startTime":820.129,"endTime":824.37,"body":"So that's a copper source bound"},{"speaker":"Annie Williams","startTime":820.129,"endTime":824.37,"body":"to an amino acid to try and"},{"speaker":"Annie Williams","startTime":824.37,"endTime":826.97,"body":"improve its bioavailability."},{"speaker":"Annie Williams","startTime":826.97,"endTime":830.909,"body":"That means that it's not just"},{"speaker":"Annie Williams","startTime":826.97,"endTime":830.909,"body":"absorbed through a traditional"},{"speaker":"Annie Williams","startTime":830.909,"endTime":834.21,"body":"copper transporter, but"},{"speaker":"Annie Williams","startTime":830.909,"endTime":834.21,"body":"hopefully we get some absorption"},{"speaker":"Annie Williams","startTime":834.21,"endTime":837.409,"body":"through an amino acid"},{"speaker":"Annie Williams","startTime":834.21,"endTime":837.409,"body":"transporter as well."},{"speaker":"Annie Williams","startTime":837.409,"endTime":838.47,"body":"And then the other sort of"},{"speaker":"Annie Williams","startTime":838.47,"endTime":839.769,"body":"classification that you would"},{"speaker":"Annie Williams","startTime":839.769,"endTime":841.21,"body":"certainly see commonly on the"},{"speaker":"Annie Williams","startTime":841.21,"endTime":843.629,"body":"market in the UK and the USA"},{"speaker":"Annie Williams","startTime":843.629,"endTime":846.97,"body":"would be hydroxy minerals, which"},{"speaker":"Annie Williams","startTime":846.97,"endTime":848.73,"body":"I kind of put between your"},{"speaker":"Annie Williams","startTime":848.73,"endTime":851.049,"body":"traditional inorganic and your"},{"speaker":"Annie Williams","startTime":851.049,"endTime":853.59,"body":"more advanced organic or chelate"},{"speaker":"Annie Williams","startTime":853.59,"endTime":855.61,"body":"as something that is on the"},{"speaker":"Annie Williams","startTime":855.61,"endTime":857.99,"body":"market as having a higher"},{"speaker":"Annie Williams","startTime":857.99,"endTime":859.649,"body":"bioavailability."},{"speaker":"Annie Williams","startTime":859.649,"endTime":862.73,"body":"Probably not quite as high as a"},{"speaker":"Annie Williams","startTime":859.649,"endTime":862.73,"body":"chelate."},{"speaker":"Andrew Jones","startTime":863.45,"endTime":864.769,"body":"What's the difference in the"},{"speaker":"Andrew Jones","startTime":864.769,"endTime":866.009,"body":"bioavailabilities of these"},{"speaker":"Andrew Jones","startTime":866.009,"endTime":866.769,"body":"different products?"},{"speaker":"Andrew Jones","startTime":866.769,"endTime":868.809,"body":"Roughly, I'm assuming they're"},{"speaker":"Andrew Jones","startTime":866.769,"endTime":868.809,"body":"probably different depending on"},{"speaker":"Andrew Jones","startTime":868.809,"endTime":872.649,"body":"the mineral and etc. but"},{"speaker":"Andrew Jones","startTime":868.809,"endTime":872.649,"body":"roughly, is it like two to one"},{"speaker":"Andrew Jones","startTime":872.649,"endTime":875.73,"body":"or where does it where do they"},{"speaker":"Andrew Jones","startTime":872.649,"endTime":875.73,"body":"sit as they progress?"},{"speaker":"Annie Williams","startTime":876.69,"endTime":877.97,"body":"Yeah, maybe we should actually"},{"speaker":"Annie Williams","startTime":877.97,"endTime":878.97,"body":"start because I think people are"},{"speaker":"Annie Williams","startTime":878.97,"endTime":880.889,"body":"always surprised by how low the"},{"speaker":"Annie Williams","startTime":880.889,"endTime":882.73,"body":"bioavailability of some of these"},{"speaker":"Annie Williams","startTime":882.73,"endTime":883.809,"body":"supplements is."},{"speaker":"Annie Williams","startTime":883.809,"endTime":886.169,"body":"So copper oxide in terms of its"},{"speaker":"Annie Williams","startTime":886.169,"endTime":888.23,"body":"availability, we'd be looking at"},{"speaker":"Annie Williams","startTime":888.23,"endTime":891.049,"body":"about four percent available,"},{"speaker":"Annie Williams","startTime":891.049,"endTime":892.45,"body":"which people are then like,"},{"speaker":"Annie Williams","startTime":892.45,"endTime":893.809,"body":"okay, why are we worried about"},{"speaker":"Annie Williams","startTime":893.809,"endTime":894.85,"body":"excess copper?"},{"speaker":"Annie Williams","startTime":894.85,"endTime":895.85,"body":"If we're talking about a"},{"speaker":"Annie Williams","startTime":895.85,"endTime":897.169,"body":"supplement that's only four"},{"speaker":"Annie Williams","startTime":897.169,"endTime":898.529,"body":"percent available?"},{"speaker":"Annie Williams","startTime":898.529,"endTime":901.73,"body":"But for a lot of the inorganics,"},{"speaker":"Annie Williams","startTime":898.529,"endTime":901.73,"body":"whether we're talking copper or"},{"speaker":"Annie Williams","startTime":901.73,"endTime":905.21,"body":"other trace minerals, we are"},{"speaker":"Annie Williams","startTime":901.73,"endTime":905.21,"body":"talking quite low availability."},{"speaker":"Annie Williams","startTime":905.21,"endTime":906.769,"body":"So you've got copper oxide about"},{"speaker":"Annie Williams","startTime":906.769,"endTime":908.97,"body":"four percent sulfates about"},{"speaker":"Annie Williams","startTime":908.97,"endTime":910.529,"body":"double that."},{"speaker":"Annie Williams","startTime":910.529,"endTime":912.57,"body":"So around about eight percent."},{"speaker":"Annie Williams","startTime":912.57,"endTime":915.889,"body":"And then your key lakes hitting"},{"speaker":"Annie Williams","startTime":915.889,"endTime":917.85,"body":"over ten percent, maybe towards"},{"speaker":"Annie Williams","startTime":917.85,"endTime":919.049,"body":"twenty percent."},{"speaker":"Annie Williams","startTime":919.049,"endTime":924.33,"body":"So still quite a lot of other"},{"speaker":"Annie Williams","startTime":919.049,"endTime":924.33,"body":"mineral that's not absorbed"},{"speaker":"Annie Williams","startTime":924.33,"endTime":925.57,"body":"within those systems."},{"speaker":"Annie Williams","startTime":925.57,"endTime":926.97,"body":"And Chelates."},{"speaker":"Annie Williams","startTime":926.97,"endTime":928.169,"body":"It's hard to put a number on"},{"speaker":"Annie Williams","startTime":928.169,"endTime":930.009,"body":"because the manufacturing is"},{"speaker":"Annie Williams","startTime":930.009,"endTime":930.769,"body":"important."},{"speaker":"Annie Williams","startTime":930.769,"endTime":932.33,"body":"So how well they're binding it"},{"speaker":"Annie Williams","startTime":932.33,"endTime":933.769,"body":"to the amino acid, what the"},{"speaker":"Annie Williams","startTime":933.769,"endTime":936.33,"body":"mechanism of release is, does it"},{"speaker":"Annie Williams","startTime":936.33,"endTime":937.72,"body":"release in the room and all the"},{"speaker":"Annie Williams","startTime":937.72,"endTime":938.519,"body":"abomasum."},{"speaker":"Annie Williams","startTime":938.519,"endTime":942.399,"body":"All affects how available they"},{"speaker":"Annie Williams","startTime":938.519,"endTime":942.399,"body":"are to the animal."},{"speaker":"Andrew Jones","startTime":943.039,"endTime":946.279,"body":"But really, it's relative of all"},{"speaker":"Andrew Jones","startTime":943.039,"endTime":946.279,"body":"of them, a relative low"},{"speaker":"Andrew Jones","startTime":946.279,"endTime":947.36,"body":"availabilities, aren't they?"},{"speaker":"Andrew Jones","startTime":947.36,"endTime":948.279,"body":"Even at twenty percent?"},{"speaker":"Andrew Jones","startTime":948.279,"endTime":952.46,"body":"That's a relatively low"},{"speaker":"Andrew Jones","startTime":948.279,"endTime":952.46,"body":"availability, which, you know,"},{"speaker":"Andrew Jones","startTime":952.46,"endTime":954.72,"body":"maybe putting it simply, that's"},{"speaker":"Andrew Jones","startTime":952.46,"endTime":954.72,"body":"eighty percent of what you're"},{"speaker":"Andrew Jones","startTime":954.72,"endTime":957.08,"body":"feeding is going out the back"},{"speaker":"Andrew Jones","startTime":954.72,"endTime":957.08,"body":"end and being wasted."},{"speaker":"Sarah Bolt","startTime":957.919,"endTime":962.12,"body":"So putting that in terms of what"},{"speaker":"Sarah Bolt","startTime":957.919,"endTime":962.12,"body":"farmers can ask their mineral"},{"speaker":"Sarah Bolt","startTime":962.12,"endTime":965.799,"body":"suppliers as to, you know, what"},{"speaker":"Sarah Bolt","startTime":962.12,"endTime":965.799,"body":"questions should they be asking"},{"speaker":"Sarah Bolt","startTime":965.799,"endTime":966.639,"body":"about the copper."},{"speaker":"Sarah Bolt","startTime":966.639,"endTime":969.0,"body":"So obviously, one is, is it"},{"speaker":"Sarah Bolt","startTime":969.0,"endTime":971.299,"body":"inorganic or is it related or"},{"speaker":"Sarah Bolt","startTime":971.299,"endTime":972.44,"body":"the hydroxy."},{"speaker":"Sarah Bolt","startTime":972.44,"endTime":974.72,"body":"But then as you say, then the"},{"speaker":"Sarah Bolt","startTime":974.72,"endTime":976.759,"body":"the chelates then are different"},{"speaker":"Sarah Bolt","startTime":976.759,"endTime":977.6,"body":"availabilities."},{"speaker":"Sarah Bolt","startTime":977.6,"endTime":978.84,"body":"What sort of questions should"},{"speaker":"Sarah Bolt","startTime":978.84,"endTime":981.399,"body":"the farmers actually be asking I"},{"speaker":"Sarah Bolt","startTime":981.399,"endTime":982.039,"body":"think."},{"speaker":"Annie Williams","startTime":981.879,"endTime":985.399,"body":"So it's about how well they're"},{"speaker":"Annie Williams","startTime":981.879,"endTime":985.399,"body":"being manufactured, what what"},{"speaker":"Annie Williams","startTime":985.399,"endTime":989.44,"body":"control is in place to know that"},{"speaker":"Annie Williams","startTime":985.399,"endTime":989.44,"body":"the product that we're getting"},{"speaker":"Annie Williams","startTime":989.44,"endTime":993.48,"body":"is always the same when it's put"},{"speaker":"Annie Williams","startTime":989.44,"endTime":993.48,"body":"into that mineral pack on farm."},{"speaker":"Annie Williams","startTime":993.48,"endTime":995.87,"body":"Therefore, how much do we know"},{"speaker":"Annie Williams","startTime":993.48,"endTime":995.87,"body":"about it?"},{"speaker":"Annie Williams","startTime":995.87,"endTime":997.23,"body":"because I think that the major"},{"speaker":"Annie Williams","startTime":997.23,"endTime":999.769,"body":"message around, um, some of the"},{"speaker":"Annie Williams","startTime":999.769,"endTime":1001.95,"body":"maybe more expensive mineral"},{"speaker":"Annie Williams","startTime":1001.95,"endTime":1004.509,"body":"products that we see on farm is"},{"speaker":"Annie Williams","startTime":1004.509,"endTime":1006.25,"body":"when we're looking at how much"},{"speaker":"Annie Williams","startTime":1006.25,"endTime":1008.23,"body":"an animal actually requires,"},{"speaker":"Annie Williams","startTime":1008.23,"endTime":1010.09,"body":"we're generally working off"},{"speaker":"Annie Williams","startTime":1010.09,"endTime":1013.149,"body":"milligrams of the actual metal"},{"speaker":"Annie Williams","startTime":1013.149,"endTime":1014.11,"body":"itself."},{"speaker":"Annie Williams","startTime":1014.11,"endTime":1016.87,"body":"So if we're talking about copper"},{"speaker":"Annie Williams","startTime":1014.11,"endTime":1016.87,"body":"oxide, we're converting copper"},{"speaker":"Annie Williams","startTime":1016.87,"endTime":1018.149,"body":"oxide to copper."},{"speaker":"Annie Williams","startTime":1018.149,"endTime":1021.21,"body":"If we're talking about hydroxy"},{"speaker":"Annie Williams","startTime":1018.149,"endTime":1021.21,"body":"copper, we're converting it to"},{"speaker":"Annie Williams","startTime":1021.21,"endTime":1025.23,"body":"copper and formulating, let's"},{"speaker":"Annie Williams","startTime":1021.21,"endTime":1025.23,"body":"say, for example, at ten"},{"speaker":"Annie Williams","startTime":1025.23,"endTime":1030.19,"body":"milligrams per kilogram dry"},{"speaker":"Annie Williams","startTime":1025.23,"endTime":1030.19,"body":"matter, if we're using a source"},{"speaker":"Annie Williams","startTime":1030.19,"endTime":1034.829,"body":"that's more available, it might"},{"speaker":"Annie Williams","startTime":1030.19,"endTime":1034.829,"body":"be more expensive, but we should"},{"speaker":"Annie Williams","startTime":1034.829,"endTime":1039.789,"body":"be able to use less of it to"},{"speaker":"Annie Williams","startTime":1034.829,"endTime":1039.789,"body":"achieve the same outcome in"},{"speaker":"Annie Williams","startTime":1039.789,"endTime":1043.39,"body":"terms of how that animal"},{"speaker":"Annie Williams","startTime":1039.789,"endTime":1043.39,"body":"responds, in order to have the"},{"speaker":"Annie Williams","startTime":1043.39,"endTime":1046.63,"body":"confidence to be able to"},{"speaker":"Annie Williams","startTime":1043.39,"endTime":1046.63,"body":"formulate like that, we have to"},{"speaker":"Annie Williams","startTime":1046.63,"endTime":1050.109,"body":"have the quality and consistency"},{"speaker":"Annie Williams","startTime":1046.63,"endTime":1050.109,"body":"in the product."},{"speaker":"Annie Williams","startTime":1050.109,"endTime":1054.269,"body":"And that's where it comes to"},{"speaker":"Annie Williams","startTime":1050.109,"endTime":1054.269,"body":"whether we've got control of"},{"speaker":"Annie Williams","startTime":1054.269,"endTime":1055.63,"body":"that or not."},{"speaker":"Annie Williams","startTime":1055.63,"endTime":1057.109,"body":"I mean, I would say in general,"},{"speaker":"Annie Williams","startTime":1057.109,"endTime":1060.47,"body":"in sort of, um, mineral packs,"},{"speaker":"Annie Williams","startTime":1060.47,"endTime":1061.829,"body":"we should have, we should have"},{"speaker":"Annie Williams","startTime":1061.829,"endTime":1064.73,"body":"control over those more, uh,"},{"speaker":"Annie Williams","startTime":1064.73,"endTime":1066.609,"body":"bioavailable sources in terms of"},{"speaker":"Annie Williams","startTime":1066.609,"endTime":1067.99,"body":"their quality."},{"speaker":"Annie Williams","startTime":1067.99,"endTime":1069.95,"body":"The opposite end of the market"},{"speaker":"Annie Williams","startTime":1069.95,"endTime":1071.029,"body":"where we see things like"},{"speaker":"Annie Williams","startTime":1071.029,"endTime":1072.549,"body":"boluses."},{"speaker":"Annie Williams","startTime":1072.549,"endTime":1076.95,"body":"That's where we see a real"},{"speaker":"Annie Williams","startTime":1072.549,"endTime":1076.95,"body":"discrepancy in how well those"},{"speaker":"Annie Williams","startTime":1076.95,"endTime":1079.15,"body":"products are actually made."},{"speaker":"Annie Williams","startTime":1079.15,"endTime":1082.069,"body":"Those that talk to me will know"},{"speaker":"Annie Williams","startTime":1079.15,"endTime":1082.069,"body":"I've got a real bee in my bonnet"},{"speaker":"Annie Williams","startTime":1082.069,"endTime":1088.63,"body":"about boluses and their quality,"},{"speaker":"Annie Williams","startTime":1082.069,"endTime":1088.63,"body":"or sometimes lack of quality,"},{"speaker":"Annie Williams","startTime":1088.63,"endTime":1092.509,"body":"and I would always be asking"},{"speaker":"Annie Williams","startTime":1088.63,"endTime":1092.509,"body":"manufacturers for data."},{"speaker":"Annie Williams","startTime":1092.509,"endTime":1096.089,"body":"If you want, if you've got a"},{"speaker":"Annie Williams","startTime":1092.509,"endTime":1096.089,"body":"claim, show me the data that"},{"speaker":"Annie Williams","startTime":1096.089,"endTime":1098.91,"body":"that proves your claim is true."},{"speaker":"Annie Williams","startTime":1098.91,"endTime":1102.869,"body":"So if you've got a bolus that's"},{"speaker":"Annie Williams","startTime":1098.91,"endTime":1102.869,"body":"supposed to last for six months,"},{"speaker":"Annie Williams","startTime":1102.869,"endTime":1107.509,"body":"show me that data from a cow or"},{"speaker":"Annie Williams","startTime":1102.869,"endTime":1107.509,"body":"from a sheep, whatever we're"},{"speaker":"Annie Williams","startTime":1107.509,"endTime":1110.99,"body":"talking about to say that that"},{"speaker":"Annie Williams","startTime":1107.509,"endTime":1110.99,"body":"will release a six months."},{"speaker":"Annie Williams","startTime":1110.99,"endTime":1114.19,"body":"Or if we're talking about a"},{"speaker":"Annie Williams","startTime":1110.99,"endTime":1114.19,"body":"copper sauce that you're saying"},{"speaker":"Annie Williams","startTime":1114.19,"endTime":1115.67,"body":"is twice as available."},{"speaker":"Annie Williams","startTime":1115.67,"endTime":1119.109,"body":"Okay, show me the data that"},{"speaker":"Annie Williams","startTime":1115.67,"endTime":1119.109,"body":"indicates that that's the case."},{"speaker":"Andrew Jones","startTime":1120.029,"endTime":1121.829,"body":"Is there a situation when using"},{"speaker":"Andrew Jones","startTime":1121.829,"endTime":1122.99,"body":"one is better than using the"},{"speaker":"Andrew Jones","startTime":1122.99,"endTime":1124.49,"body":"other, or is it simply a case of"},{"speaker":"Andrew Jones","startTime":1124.49,"endTime":1125.43,"body":"you're paying for more"},{"speaker":"Andrew Jones","startTime":1125.43,"endTime":1126.15,"body":"availability."},{"speaker":"Andrew Jones","startTime":1126.15,"endTime":1128.19,"body":"So you should be using less of"},{"speaker":"Andrew Jones","startTime":1126.15,"endTime":1128.19,"body":"it."},{"speaker":"Annie Williams","startTime":1129.67,"endTime":1131.71,"body":"There are some situations where"},{"speaker":"Annie Williams","startTime":1131.71,"endTime":1133.43,"body":"one is better than the other,"},{"speaker":"Annie Williams","startTime":1133.43,"endTime":1135.39,"body":"depending on the system that"},{"speaker":"Annie Williams","startTime":1135.39,"endTime":1137.63,"body":"we're working in and therefore"},{"speaker":"Annie Williams","startTime":1137.63,"endTime":1139.73,"body":"what we might be trying to"},{"speaker":"Annie Williams","startTime":1139.73,"endTime":1141.029,"body":"achieve."},{"speaker":"Annie Williams","startTime":1141.029,"endTime":1143.91,"body":"For example, certainly within"},{"speaker":"Annie Williams","startTime":1143.91,"endTime":1145.71,"body":"some of our UK systems, we would"},{"speaker":"Annie Williams","startTime":1145.71,"endTime":1147.75,"body":"have relatively high levels of"},{"speaker":"Annie Williams","startTime":1147.75,"endTime":1150.349,"body":"copper antagonism, relatively"},{"speaker":"Annie Williams","startTime":1150.349,"endTime":1151.93,"body":"high amounts of iron,"},{"speaker":"Annie Williams","startTime":1151.93,"endTime":1154.789,"body":"molybdenum, sulphur coming into"},{"speaker":"Annie Williams","startTime":1154.789,"endTime":1155.67,"body":"the diet."},{"speaker":"Annie Williams","startTime":1155.67,"endTime":1158.97,"body":"If that's a particular challenge"},{"speaker":"Annie Williams","startTime":1155.67,"endTime":1158.97,"body":"and we're really trying to"},{"speaker":"Annie Williams","startTime":1158.97,"endTime":1162.95,"body":"overcome that, one of the ways"},{"speaker":"Annie Williams","startTime":1158.97,"endTime":1162.95,"body":"in which we can potentially"},{"speaker":"Annie Williams","startTime":1162.95,"endTime":1167.63,"body":"achieve that is by using a"},{"speaker":"Annie Williams","startTime":1162.95,"endTime":1167.63,"body":"different copper source that is"},{"speaker":"Annie Williams","startTime":1167.63,"endTime":1172.66,"body":"less subject to antagonism"},{"speaker":"Annie Williams","startTime":1167.63,"endTime":1172.66,"body":"within the rumen."},{"speaker":"Annie Williams","startTime":1172.66,"endTime":1173.94,"body":"There's also some work"},{"speaker":"Annie Williams","startTime":1173.94,"endTime":1176.619,"body":"suggesting around potentially"},{"speaker":"Annie Williams","startTime":1176.619,"endTime":1178.519,"body":"improvements in NDF"},{"speaker":"Annie Williams","startTime":1178.519,"endTime":1181.4,"body":"digestibility from using some of"},{"speaker":"Annie Williams","startTime":1181.4,"endTime":1184.039,"body":"the collated sources over"},{"speaker":"Annie Williams","startTime":1184.039,"endTime":1185.259,"body":"Sulphates."},{"speaker":"Annie Williams","startTime":1185.259,"endTime":1188.74,"body":"I would say that research is not"},{"speaker":"Annie Williams","startTime":1185.259,"endTime":1188.74,"body":"really, really solid, but there"},{"speaker":"Annie Williams","startTime":1188.74,"endTime":1192.099,"body":"is some data out there"},{"speaker":"Annie Williams","startTime":1188.74,"endTime":1192.099,"body":"suggesting that Sulphates may"},{"speaker":"Annie Williams","startTime":1192.099,"endTime":1196.059,"body":"have an impact in the rumen and"},{"speaker":"Annie Williams","startTime":1192.099,"endTime":1196.059,"body":"therefore particularly maybe in"},{"speaker":"Annie Williams","startTime":1196.059,"endTime":1199.44,"body":"higher performing dairy cows,"},{"speaker":"Annie Williams","startTime":1196.059,"endTime":1199.44,"body":"where we're absolutely trying to"},{"speaker":"Annie Williams","startTime":1199.44,"endTime":1200.94,"body":"optimise that rumen."},{"speaker":"Annie Williams","startTime":1200.94,"endTime":1204.48,"body":"We might look at using different"},{"speaker":"Annie Williams","startTime":1200.94,"endTime":1204.48,"body":"sources of minerals just to"},{"speaker":"Annie Williams","startTime":1204.48,"endTime":1206.059,"body":"mitigate that effect."},{"speaker":"Andrew Jones","startTime":1206.579,"endTime":1208.94,"body":"And so that's what I usually get"},{"speaker":"Andrew Jones","startTime":1206.579,"endTime":1208.94,"body":"told is when you know, you've"},{"speaker":"Andrew Jones","startTime":1208.94,"endTime":1211.46,"body":"got higher producing cow or you"},{"speaker":"Andrew Jones","startTime":1208.94,"endTime":1211.46,"body":"better be using those chelates."},{"speaker":"Andrew Jones","startTime":1211.46,"endTime":1213.099,"body":"That's that's when you should be"},{"speaker":"Andrew Jones","startTime":1211.46,"endTime":1213.099,"body":"using it."},{"speaker":"Andrew Jones","startTime":1213.099,"endTime":1216.98,"body":"So it was good to just good to"},{"speaker":"Andrew Jones","startTime":1213.099,"endTime":1216.98,"body":"ask that to you."},{"speaker":"Andrew Jones","startTime":1216.98,"endTime":1220.42,"body":"But we're here to talk about"},{"speaker":"Andrew Jones","startTime":1216.98,"endTime":1220.42,"body":"copper before we start moving in"},{"speaker":"Andrew Jones","startTime":1220.42,"endTime":1223.5,"body":"on to the excesses or maybe"},{"speaker":"Andrew Jones","startTime":1220.42,"endTime":1223.5,"body":"deficiencies of copper."},{"speaker":"Andrew Jones","startTime":1223.5,"endTime":1225.259,"body":"What is copper important for?"},{"speaker":"Andrew Jones","startTime":1225.259,"endTime":1228.46,"body":"What is it used for within"},{"speaker":"Andrew Jones","startTime":1225.259,"endTime":1228.46,"body":"within the animal."},{"speaker":"Annie Williams","startTime":1229.94,"endTime":1235.319,"body":"Copper is important for almost"},{"speaker":"Annie Williams","startTime":1229.94,"endTime":1235.319,"body":"every biological process in the"},{"speaker":"Annie Williams","startTime":1235.319,"endTime":1240.019,"body":"animal, so it involved in almost"},{"speaker":"Annie Williams","startTime":1235.319,"endTime":1240.019,"body":"three hundred enzymes in the"},{"speaker":"Annie Williams","startTime":1240.019,"endTime":1245.0,"body":"body, which means that probably"},{"speaker":"Annie Williams","startTime":1240.019,"endTime":1245.0,"body":"excesses or deficiencies in"},{"speaker":"Annie Williams","startTime":1245.0,"endTime":1248.94,"body":"copper, we can pick up in all"},{"speaker":"Annie Williams","startTime":1245.0,"endTime":1248.94,"body":"sorts of different metrics."},{"speaker":"Annie Williams","startTime":1248.94,"endTime":1253.619,"body":"So when we do research, we're"},{"speaker":"Annie Williams","startTime":1248.94,"endTime":1253.619,"body":"primarily looking at fertility."},{"speaker":"Annie Williams","startTime":1253.619,"endTime":1257.18,"body":"We're looking at growth and"},{"speaker":"Annie Williams","startTime":1253.619,"endTime":1257.18,"body":"we're looking at the immune"},{"speaker":"Annie Williams","startTime":1257.18,"endTime":1262.559,"body":"system all as being affected by"},{"speaker":"Annie Williams","startTime":1257.18,"endTime":1262.559,"body":"a deficiency in copper, but also"},{"speaker":"Annie Williams","startTime":1262.559,"endTime":1268.579,"body":"an excess in copper, and"},{"speaker":"Annie Williams","startTime":1262.559,"endTime":1268.579,"body":"primarily looking at how it"},{"speaker":"Annie Williams","startTime":1268.579,"endTime":1272.099,"body":"accumulates in the liver, and"},{"speaker":"Annie Williams","startTime":1268.579,"endTime":1272.099,"body":"therefore potential problems"},{"speaker":"Annie Williams","startTime":1272.099,"endTime":1275.74,"body":"that we can get from excess"},{"speaker":"Annie Williams","startTime":1272.099,"endTime":1275.74,"body":"accumulation in the liver."},{"speaker":"Andrew Jones","startTime":1276.14,"endTime":1280.259,"body":"So it's a very important mineral"},{"speaker":"Andrew Jones","startTime":1276.14,"endTime":1280.259,"body":"to be having because you say"},{"speaker":"Andrew Jones","startTime":1280.259,"endTime":1283.94,"body":"it's used so widely, but"},{"speaker":"Andrew Jones","startTime":1280.259,"endTime":1283.94,"body":"obviously by the sounds of it, I"},{"speaker":"Andrew Jones","startTime":1283.94,"endTime":1287.579,"body":"mean, I did a little bit of"},{"speaker":"Andrew Jones","startTime":1283.94,"endTime":1287.579,"body":"research before, um, we came on."},{"speaker":"Andrew Jones","startTime":1287.579,"endTime":1289.73,"body":"Now you can tell me if this is"},{"speaker":"Andrew Jones","startTime":1287.579,"endTime":1289.73,"body":"true or not."},{"speaker":"Andrew Jones","startTime":1289.73,"endTime":1290.45,"body":"But it was."},{"speaker":"Andrew Jones","startTime":1290.45,"endTime":1292.049,"body":"A survey suggests fifty percent"},{"speaker":"Andrew Jones","startTime":1292.049,"endTime":1293.65,"body":"of dairy cattle in the UK have"},{"speaker":"Andrew Jones","startTime":1293.65,"endTime":1295.17,"body":"elevated liver copper"},{"speaker":"Andrew Jones","startTime":1295.17,"endTime":1297.009,"body":"concentrations."},{"speaker":"Andrew Jones","startTime":1297.009,"endTime":1298.41,"body":"Now you tell me."},{"speaker":"Andrew Jones","startTime":1298.41,"endTime":1300.049,"body":"You'd know better about this"},{"speaker":"Andrew Jones","startTime":1298.41,"endTime":1300.049,"body":"than me."},{"speaker":"Andrew Jones","startTime":1300.049,"endTime":1301.65,"body":"Do you think that's probably the"},{"speaker":"Andrew Jones","startTime":1300.049,"endTime":1301.65,"body":"case?"},{"speaker":"Andrew Jones","startTime":1301.65,"endTime":1302.41,"body":"By the sounds of it."},{"speaker":"Andrew Jones","startTime":1302.41,"endTime":1303.529,"body":"Well, it's an important thing."},{"speaker":"Andrew Jones","startTime":1303.529,"endTime":1305.89,"body":"It's something that we've"},{"speaker":"Andrew Jones","startTime":1303.529,"endTime":1305.89,"body":"already caveated."},{"speaker":"Andrew Jones","startTime":1305.89,"endTime":1308.769,"body":"There can be deficiencies, but"},{"speaker":"Andrew Jones","startTime":1305.89,"endTime":1308.769,"body":"by the sounds of it, it sounds"},{"speaker":"Andrew Jones","startTime":1308.769,"endTime":1311.369,"body":"like a lot of the time there are"},{"speaker":"Andrew Jones","startTime":1308.769,"endTime":1311.369,"body":"excesses out there."},{"speaker":"Annie Williams","startTime":1312.21,"endTime":1315.369,"body":"Yeah, I'd say that that is"},{"speaker":"Annie Williams","startTime":1312.21,"endTime":1315.369,"body":"absolutely true."},{"speaker":"Annie Williams","startTime":1315.369,"endTime":1318.769,"body":"If we look at the published"},{"speaker":"Annie Williams","startTime":1315.369,"endTime":1318.769,"body":"literature that was published"},{"speaker":"Annie Williams","startTime":1318.769,"endTime":1321.93,"body":"probably around probably more"},{"speaker":"Annie Williams","startTime":1318.769,"endTime":1321.93,"body":"than ten years ago, where they"},{"speaker":"Annie Williams","startTime":1321.93,"endTime":1326.69,"body":"really went into abattoirs and"},{"speaker":"Annie Williams","startTime":1321.93,"endTime":1326.69,"body":"looked at cull cows and their"},{"speaker":"Annie Williams","startTime":1326.69,"endTime":1330.49,"body":"liver copper concentrations,"},{"speaker":"Annie Williams","startTime":1326.69,"endTime":1330.49,"body":"over forty percent of them were"},{"speaker":"Annie Williams","startTime":1330.49,"endTime":1332.369,"body":"over the toxic range."},{"speaker":"Annie Williams","startTime":1332.369,"endTime":1334.069,"body":"So then if we come down from"},{"speaker":"Annie Williams","startTime":1334.069,"endTime":1335.89,"body":"toxic to what we qualify as"},{"speaker":"Annie Williams","startTime":1335.89,"endTime":1338.369,"body":"elevated, then yeah, I'd suggest"},{"speaker":"Annie Williams","startTime":1338.369,"endTime":1340.049,"body":"that more than fifty percent of"},{"speaker":"Annie Williams","startTime":1340.049,"endTime":1341.849,"body":"dairy cows are over that"},{"speaker":"Annie Williams","startTime":1341.849,"endTime":1342.93,"body":"threshold."},{"speaker":"Annie Williams","startTime":1342.93,"endTime":1345.41,"body":"And we are potentially"},{"speaker":"Annie Williams","startTime":1342.93,"endTime":1345.41,"body":"inhibiting their performance"},{"speaker":"Annie Williams","startTime":1345.41,"endTime":1348.93,"body":"because of those excessive"},{"speaker":"Annie Williams","startTime":1345.41,"endTime":1348.93,"body":"levels of copper in the liver."},{"speaker":"Sarah Bolt","startTime":1349.45,"endTime":1354.99,"body":"So picking up on that, um, sort"},{"speaker":"Sarah Bolt","startTime":1349.45,"endTime":1354.99,"body":"of I'm going back maybe sort of"},{"speaker":"Sarah Bolt","startTime":1354.99,"endTime":1360.009,"body":"ten or so years ago, but there"},{"speaker":"Sarah Bolt","startTime":1354.99,"endTime":1360.009,"body":"weren't that many vets that"},{"speaker":"Sarah Bolt","startTime":1360.009,"endTime":1364.41,"body":"would be confident to give a"},{"speaker":"Sarah Bolt","startTime":1360.009,"endTime":1364.41,"body":"live liver biopsy."},{"speaker":"Sarah Bolt","startTime":1364.41,"endTime":1368.329,"body":"Now I know that that's something"},{"speaker":"Sarah Bolt","startTime":1364.41,"endTime":1368.329,"body":"in New Zealand is like they do"},{"speaker":"Sarah Bolt","startTime":1368.329,"endTime":1369.49,"body":"it all the time."},{"speaker":"Sarah Bolt","startTime":1369.49,"endTime":1373.289,"body":"And therefore vets that have"},{"speaker":"Sarah Bolt","startTime":1369.49,"endTime":1373.289,"body":"been to New Zealand tend to be"},{"speaker":"Sarah Bolt","startTime":1373.289,"endTime":1375.769,"body":"much more confident in doing it."},{"speaker":"Sarah Bolt","startTime":1375.769,"endTime":1377.17,"body":"Is that still the case?"},{"speaker":"Sarah Bolt","startTime":1377.17,"endTime":1382.289,"body":"Do we still see that as being"},{"speaker":"Sarah Bolt","startTime":1377.17,"endTime":1382.289,"body":"one of the issues that we don't"},{"speaker":"Sarah Bolt","startTime":1382.289,"endTime":1386.95,"body":"get as many live liver biopsies"},{"speaker":"Sarah Bolt","startTime":1382.289,"endTime":1386.95,"body":"as we could do, to therefore be"},{"speaker":"Sarah Bolt","startTime":1386.95,"endTime":1390.73,"body":"able to say whether we're"},{"speaker":"Sarah Bolt","startTime":1386.95,"endTime":1390.73,"body":"getting that excess or not?"},{"speaker":"Annie Williams","startTime":1391.69,"endTime":1394.49,"body":"Yeah. That's interesting, Sarah,"},{"speaker":"Annie Williams","startTime":1391.69,"endTime":1394.49,"body":"because I saw I spent some time"},{"speaker":"Annie Williams","startTime":1394.49,"endTime":1399.69,"body":"in New Zealand when I was on my"},{"speaker":"Annie Williams","startTime":1394.49,"endTime":1399.69,"body":"Nuffield and tried to understand"},{"speaker":"Annie Williams","startTime":1399.69,"endTime":1402.609,"body":"how they're using that data and"},{"speaker":"Annie Williams","startTime":1399.69,"endTime":1402.609,"body":"what they're, what they're"},{"speaker":"Annie Williams","startTime":1402.609,"endTime":1405.72,"body":"actually doing with it in terms"},{"speaker":"Annie Williams","startTime":1402.609,"endTime":1405.72,"body":"of decision making on farm."},{"speaker":"Annie Williams","startTime":1405.72,"endTime":1408.759,"body":"And actually my conclusion was"},{"speaker":"Annie Williams","startTime":1405.72,"endTime":1408.759,"body":"maybe they're not using it as"},{"speaker":"Annie Williams","startTime":1408.759,"endTime":1410.079,"body":"much as they should be."},{"speaker":"Annie Williams","startTime":1410.079,"endTime":1413.119,"body":"So although they're collecting"},{"speaker":"Annie Williams","startTime":1410.079,"endTime":1413.119,"body":"the data, are they actually, is"},{"speaker":"Annie Williams","startTime":1413.119,"endTime":1417.96,"body":"it actually driving action with"},{"speaker":"Annie Williams","startTime":1413.119,"endTime":1417.96,"body":"maybe a different question?"},{"speaker":"Annie Williams","startTime":1417.96,"endTime":1419.68,"body":"I wasn't actually sure."},{"speaker":"Annie Williams","startTime":1419.68,"endTime":1421.079,"body":"And I was only there five weeks."},{"speaker":"Annie Williams","startTime":1421.079,"endTime":1423.44,"body":"So you can't judge a whole"},{"speaker":"Annie Williams","startTime":1421.079,"endTime":1423.44,"body":"country in that time."},{"speaker":"Annie Williams","startTime":1423.44,"endTime":1427.74,"body":"But yeah, I'm not sure that I"},{"speaker":"Annie Williams","startTime":1423.44,"endTime":1427.74,"body":"really saw a huge oh, we've got,"},{"speaker":"Annie Williams","startTime":1427.74,"endTime":1429.119,"body":"we've done these livers."},{"speaker":"Annie Williams","startTime":1429.119,"endTime":1430.92,"body":"They've given us this result."},{"speaker":"Annie Williams","startTime":1430.92,"endTime":1433.42,"body":"They're saying we shouldn't use"},{"speaker":"Annie Williams","startTime":1430.92,"endTime":1433.42,"body":"any copper, but we're going to"},{"speaker":"Annie Williams","startTime":1433.42,"endTime":1437.88,"body":"use a little bit anyway because"},{"speaker":"Annie Williams","startTime":1433.42,"endTime":1437.88,"body":"we always do kind of thing."},{"speaker":"Annie Williams","startTime":1437.88,"endTime":1440.079,"body":"But there's definitely yeah,"},{"speaker":"Annie Williams","startTime":1437.88,"endTime":1440.079,"body":"you're absolutely right."},{"speaker":"Annie Williams","startTime":1440.079,"endTime":1441.88,"body":"In the UK, I still think we see"},{"speaker":"Annie Williams","startTime":1441.88,"endTime":1444.4,"body":"a mix of those vets that are"},{"speaker":"Annie Williams","startTime":1444.4,"endTime":1446.119,"body":"confident and will go in and"},{"speaker":"Annie Williams","startTime":1446.119,"endTime":1448.48,"body":"say, yeah, absolutely, let's"},{"speaker":"Annie Williams","startTime":1448.48,"endTime":1450.039,"body":"biopsy these cows, let's have a"},{"speaker":"Annie Williams","startTime":1450.039,"endTime":1450.319,"body":"look."},{"speaker":"Annie Williams","startTime":1450.319,"endTime":1453.319,"body":"And I'm very lucky that I work"},{"speaker":"Annie Williams","startTime":1450.319,"endTime":1453.319,"body":"with some vets that when you"},{"speaker":"Annie Williams","startTime":1453.319,"endTime":1455.079,"body":"say, can we have a look at this?"},{"speaker":"Annie Williams","startTime":1455.079,"endTime":1456.799,"body":"I think we need more data."},{"speaker":"Annie Williams","startTime":1456.799,"endTime":1458.2,"body":"They absolutely will."},{"speaker":"Annie Williams","startTime":1458.2,"endTime":1462.88,"body":"Versus those that where it's"},{"speaker":"Annie Williams","startTime":1458.2,"endTime":1462.88,"body":"still a bit of a foreign concept"},{"speaker":"Annie Williams","startTime":1462.88,"endTime":1466.759,"body":"to liver biopsy, live cattle."},{"speaker":"Annie Williams","startTime":1466.759,"endTime":1469.2,"body":"And what are we going to gain"},{"speaker":"Annie Williams","startTime":1466.759,"endTime":1469.2,"body":"from it?"},{"speaker":"Annie Williams","startTime":1469.2,"endTime":1471.039,"body":"Is there some risk here?"},{"speaker":"Annie Williams","startTime":1471.039,"endTime":1472.299,"body":"I still think that we've got"},{"speaker":"Annie Williams","startTime":1472.299,"endTime":1474.079,"body":"kind of vets in both camps"},{"speaker":"Annie Williams","startTime":1474.079,"endTime":1474.64,"body":"there."},{"speaker":"Sarah Bolt","startTime":1475.48,"endTime":1478.72,"body":"So the traditional blood"},{"speaker":"Sarah Bolt","startTime":1475.48,"endTime":1478.72,"body":"testing, which is sort of, I"},{"speaker":"Sarah Bolt","startTime":1478.72,"endTime":1479.96,"body":"guess the other way of doing it."},{"speaker":"Sarah Bolt","startTime":1479.96,"endTime":1481.4,"body":"What are what is the difference"},{"speaker":"Sarah Bolt","startTime":1481.4,"endTime":1483.279,"body":"between blood testing and and"},{"speaker":"Sarah Bolt","startTime":1483.279,"endTime":1484.559,"body":"liver biopsies?"},{"speaker":"Annie Williams","startTime":1485.72,"endTime":1490.299,"body":"I'd probably go as far to say"},{"speaker":"Annie Williams","startTime":1485.72,"endTime":1490.299,"body":"that there is no point blood"},{"speaker":"Annie Williams","startTime":1490.299,"endTime":1496.039,"body":"testing for copper unless you're"},{"speaker":"Annie Williams","startTime":1490.299,"endTime":1496.039,"body":"think that you've got a copper"},{"speaker":"Annie Williams","startTime":1496.039,"endTime":1501.319,"body":"deficiency, in which case you"},{"speaker":"Annie Williams","startTime":1496.039,"endTime":1501.319,"body":"could pick that up in the blood."},{"speaker":"Annie Williams","startTime":1501.319,"endTime":1505.759,"body":"The way in which this would"},{"speaker":"Annie Williams","startTime":1501.319,"endTime":1505.759,"body":"apply to cattle or to sheep."},{"speaker":"Annie Williams","startTime":1505.759,"endTime":1509.359,"body":"The way in which they they"},{"speaker":"Annie Williams","startTime":1505.759,"endTime":1509.359,"body":"control their blood."},{"speaker":"Annie Williams","startTime":1509.359,"endTime":1513.119,"body":"Copper is within a really,"},{"speaker":"Annie Williams","startTime":1509.359,"endTime":1513.119,"body":"really tight range."},{"speaker":"Annie Williams","startTime":1513.119,"endTime":1516.759,"body":"So what happens is we feed those"},{"speaker":"Annie Williams","startTime":1513.119,"endTime":1516.759,"body":"cows copper."},{"speaker":"Annie Williams","startTime":1516.759,"endTime":1517.72,"body":"They ingest it."},{"speaker":"Annie Williams","startTime":1517.72,"endTime":1518.72,"body":"Obviously, we get that"},{"speaker":"Annie Williams","startTime":1518.72,"endTime":1519.92,"body":"absorption that we've talked"},{"speaker":"Annie Williams","startTime":1519.92,"endTime":1520.98,"body":"about that is actually"},{"speaker":"Annie Williams","startTime":1520.98,"endTime":1522.589,"body":"relatively small."},{"speaker":"Annie Williams","startTime":1522.589,"endTime":1523.91,"body":"that goes in the blood and is"},{"speaker":"Annie Williams","startTime":1523.91,"endTime":1525.549,"body":"immediately transported to the"},{"speaker":"Annie Williams","startTime":1525.549,"endTime":1526.71,"body":"liver."},{"speaker":"Annie Williams","startTime":1526.71,"endTime":1528.99,"body":"They accumulate it within the"},{"speaker":"Annie Williams","startTime":1528.99,"endTime":1531.269,"body":"liver, and then they control how"},{"speaker":"Annie Williams","startTime":1531.269,"endTime":1533.029,"body":"much they release back into the"},{"speaker":"Annie Williams","startTime":1533.029,"endTime":1535.15,"body":"blood within a really, really"},{"speaker":"Annie Williams","startTime":1535.15,"endTime":1536.63,"body":"narrow range."},{"speaker":"Annie Williams","startTime":1536.63,"endTime":1541.15,"body":"So unless that liver is just"},{"speaker":"Annie Williams","startTime":1536.63,"endTime":1541.15,"body":"about to run out of copper and"},{"speaker":"Annie Williams","startTime":1541.15,"endTime":1544.99,"body":"therefore can't release any"},{"speaker":"Annie Williams","startTime":1541.15,"endTime":1544.99,"body":"more, the bloods will always"},{"speaker":"Annie Williams","startTime":1544.99,"endTime":1547.349,"body":"come out at the same number."},{"speaker":"Annie Williams","startTime":1547.349,"endTime":1552.109,"body":"If we reach a point where the"},{"speaker":"Annie Williams","startTime":1547.349,"endTime":1552.109,"body":"liver has got so much copper in"},{"speaker":"Annie Williams","startTime":1552.109,"endTime":1554.069,"body":"it, it can't accumulate anymore."},{"speaker":"Annie Williams","startTime":1554.069,"endTime":1556.829,"body":"We're on the verge of toxicity."},{"speaker":"Annie Williams","startTime":1556.829,"endTime":1558.789,"body":"Hemolytic crisis."},{"speaker":"Annie Williams","startTime":1558.789,"endTime":1561.95,"body":"That's when it'll release copper"},{"speaker":"Annie Williams","startTime":1558.789,"endTime":1561.95,"body":"back into the blood."},{"speaker":"Annie Williams","startTime":1561.95,"endTime":1563.67,"body":"And we'll see bloods that are"},{"speaker":"Annie Williams","startTime":1563.67,"endTime":1565.789,"body":"indicative of copper toxicity"},{"speaker":"Annie Williams","startTime":1565.789,"endTime":1566.869,"body":"and high."},{"speaker":"Annie Williams","startTime":1566.869,"endTime":1569.15,"body":"But when you're in yeah it's too"},{"speaker":"Annie Williams","startTime":1566.869,"endTime":1569.15,"body":"late."},{"speaker":"Annie Williams","startTime":1569.15,"endTime":1570.589,"body":"When you're in that normal"},{"speaker":"Annie Williams","startTime":1570.589,"endTime":1572.47,"body":"window and you get a blood"},{"speaker":"Annie Williams","startTime":1572.47,"endTime":1572.829,"body":"result."},{"speaker":"Annie Williams","startTime":1572.829,"endTime":1573.99,"body":"So we'd be looking for a blood"},{"speaker":"Annie Williams","startTime":1573.99,"endTime":1575.23,"body":"result between nine and"},{"speaker":"Annie Williams","startTime":1575.23,"endTime":1576.43,"body":"nineteen."},{"speaker":"Annie Williams","startTime":1576.43,"endTime":1578.15,"body":"And we generally find that most"},{"speaker":"Annie Williams","startTime":1578.15,"endTime":1580.43,"body":"animals sit a specific number"},{"speaker":"Annie Williams","startTime":1580.43,"endTime":1581.98,"body":"and don't really move from that"},{"speaker":"Annie Williams","startTime":1581.98,"endTime":1583.259,"body":"number."},{"speaker":"Annie Williams","startTime":1583.259,"endTime":1587.019,"body":"You don't know where that means"},{"speaker":"Annie Williams","startTime":1583.259,"endTime":1587.019,"body":"you are in terms of your liver."},{"speaker":"Annie Williams","startTime":1587.019,"endTime":1588.859,"body":"You could be about to run out."},{"speaker":"Annie Williams","startTime":1588.859,"endTime":1590.579,"body":"You could be copper toxic."},{"speaker":"Annie Williams","startTime":1590.579,"endTime":1594.46,"body":"It'll still say ten on your"},{"speaker":"Annie Williams","startTime":1590.579,"endTime":1594.46,"body":"blood result and it'll say ten"},{"speaker":"Annie Williams","startTime":1594.46,"endTime":1597.42,"body":"two months later and two months"},{"speaker":"Annie Williams","startTime":1594.46,"endTime":1597.42,"body":"later after that."},{"speaker":"Annie Williams","startTime":1597.42,"endTime":1602.68,"body":"So blood copper, not really that"},{"speaker":"Annie Williams","startTime":1597.42,"endTime":1602.68,"body":"helpful when we're trying to"},{"speaker":"Annie Williams","startTime":1602.68,"endTime":1605.14,"body":"understand what the status of"},{"speaker":"Annie Williams","startTime":1602.68,"endTime":1605.14,"body":"that animal is."},{"speaker":"Andrew Jones","startTime":1605.74,"endTime":1607.019,"body":"I think you've probably answered"},{"speaker":"Andrew Jones","startTime":1607.019,"endTime":1608.38,"body":"what my next question was going"},{"speaker":"Andrew Jones","startTime":1608.38,"endTime":1610.819,"body":"to be, which was why does the"},{"speaker":"Andrew Jones","startTime":1610.819,"endTime":1612.46,"body":"excess copper accumulate so"},{"speaker":"Andrew Jones","startTime":1612.46,"endTime":1613.42,"body":"readily?"},{"speaker":"Andrew Jones","startTime":1613.42,"endTime":1614.98,"body":"And why don't cows just excrete"},{"speaker":"Andrew Jones","startTime":1613.42,"endTime":1614.98,"body":"it?"},{"speaker":"Andrew Jones","startTime":1614.98,"endTime":1618.579,"body":"But I think what you said is it"},{"speaker":"Andrew Jones","startTime":1614.98,"endTime":1618.579,"body":"goes to liver, it sits there and"},{"speaker":"Andrew Jones","startTime":1618.579,"endTime":1619.859,"body":"the liver regulates."},{"speaker":"Andrew Jones","startTime":1619.859,"endTime":1621.259,"body":"Then what goes out in the blood?"},{"speaker":"Andrew Jones","startTime":1621.259,"endTime":1625.38,"body":"I think basically what you said"},{"speaker":"Andrew Jones","startTime":1621.259,"endTime":1625.38,"body":"isn't it exactly that."},{"speaker":"Annie Williams","startTime":1625.18,"endTime":1627.579,"body":"And it's an evolutionary thing."},{"speaker":"Annie Williams","startTime":1627.579,"endTime":1629.64,"body":"It's something that they are"},{"speaker":"Annie Williams","startTime":1629.64,"endTime":1631.5,"body":"designed to do because they're"},{"speaker":"Annie Williams","startTime":1631.5,"endTime":1633.859,"body":"designed to live off diets that"},{"speaker":"Annie Williams","startTime":1633.859,"endTime":1636.4,"body":"are pretty poor in terms of"},{"speaker":"Annie Williams","startTime":1636.4,"endTime":1637.619,"body":"copper content."},{"speaker":"Annie Williams","startTime":1637.619,"endTime":1638.94,"body":"And therefore it makes sense"},{"speaker":"Annie Williams","startTime":1638.94,"endTime":1640.619,"body":"that when copper's available,"},{"speaker":"Annie Williams","startTime":1640.619,"endTime":1642.5,"body":"you should accumulate it so that"},{"speaker":"Annie Williams","startTime":1642.5,"endTime":1644.099,"body":"you don't run out later down the"},{"speaker":"Annie Williams","startTime":1644.099,"endTime":1644.9,"body":"line."},{"speaker":"Annie Williams","startTime":1644.9,"endTime":1649.059,"body":"It just turns out that the way"},{"speaker":"Annie Williams","startTime":1644.9,"endTime":1649.059,"body":"that we produce livestock these"},{"speaker":"Annie Williams","startTime":1649.059,"endTime":1652.94,"body":"days, that that doesn't quite"},{"speaker":"Annie Williams","startTime":1649.059,"endTime":1652.94,"body":"fit the way they've evolved."},{"speaker":"Sarah Bolt","startTime":1655.98,"endTime":1660.079,"body":"So other than measuring it in"},{"speaker":"Sarah Bolt","startTime":1655.98,"endTime":1660.079,"body":"the cow, what can we do to"},{"speaker":"Sarah Bolt","startTime":1660.079,"endTime":1663.319,"body":"measure what's going into into"},{"speaker":"Sarah Bolt","startTime":1660.079,"endTime":1663.319,"body":"the animal, I guess is the other"},{"speaker":"Sarah Bolt","startTime":1663.319,"endTime":1669.4,"body":"the other side of it is to, you"},{"speaker":"Sarah Bolt","startTime":1663.319,"endTime":1669.4,"body":"know, sort of um feed, um"},{"speaker":"Sarah Bolt","startTime":1669.4,"endTime":1673.7,"body":"forage, I guess water as well"},{"speaker":"Sarah Bolt","startTime":1669.4,"endTime":1673.7,"body":"makes a difference."},{"speaker":"Annie Williams","startTime":1674.019,"endTime":1675.18,"body":"Yeah, absolutely."},{"speaker":"Annie Williams","startTime":1675.18,"endTime":1676.579,"body":"All of those things."},{"speaker":"Annie Williams","startTime":1676.579,"endTime":1679.38,"body":"And that's what I would do a lot"},{"speaker":"Annie Williams","startTime":1676.579,"endTime":1679.38,"body":"of work on regularly, like a"},{"speaker":"Annie Williams","startTime":1679.38,"endTime":1681.259,"body":"full mineral audit."},{"speaker":"Annie Williams","startTime":1681.259,"endTime":1686.299,"body":"What's going into these animals"},{"speaker":"Annie Williams","startTime":1681.259,"endTime":1686.299,"body":"in terms of concentrate?"},{"speaker":"Annie Williams","startTime":1686.299,"endTime":1687.5,"body":"What's going into them?"},{"speaker":"Annie Williams","startTime":1687.5,"endTime":1689.259,"body":"If you're feeding any straights,"},{"speaker":"Annie Williams","startTime":1689.259,"endTime":1691.619,"body":"what's the composition of the"},{"speaker":"Annie Williams","startTime":1691.619,"endTime":1692.46,"body":"forage?"},{"speaker":"Annie Williams","startTime":1692.46,"endTime":1694.94,"body":"What's going in in terms of"},{"speaker":"Annie Williams","startTime":1692.46,"endTime":1694.94,"body":"water?"},{"speaker":"Annie Williams","startTime":1694.94,"endTime":1698.329,"body":"And I guess in terms of forage"},{"speaker":"Annie Williams","startTime":1694.94,"endTime":1698.329,"body":"and water, we're not only"},{"speaker":"Annie Williams","startTime":1698.329,"endTime":1702.369,"body":"interested in the copper content"},{"speaker":"Annie Williams","startTime":1698.329,"endTime":1702.369,"body":"of those things, we're also"},{"speaker":"Annie Williams","startTime":1702.369,"endTime":1706.289,"body":"interested in the antagonism"},{"speaker":"Annie Williams","startTime":1702.369,"endTime":1706.289,"body":"that's coming into those."},{"speaker":"Annie Williams","startTime":1706.289,"endTime":1708.089,"body":"So how much sulfur is there?"},{"speaker":"Annie Williams","startTime":1708.089,"endTime":1709.609,"body":"How much iron is there?"},{"speaker":"Annie Williams","startTime":1709.609,"endTime":1713.609,"body":"How much molybdenum is there,"},{"speaker":"Annie Williams","startTime":1709.609,"endTime":1713.609,"body":"and how is that going to affect"},{"speaker":"Annie Williams","startTime":1713.609,"endTime":1716.13,"body":"absorption of copper?"},{"speaker":"Annie Williams","startTime":1716.13,"endTime":1719.21,"body":"We're also interested in any"},{"speaker":"Annie Williams","startTime":1716.13,"endTime":1719.21,"body":"other supplement they've had."},{"speaker":"Annie Williams","startTime":1719.21,"endTime":1721.41,"body":"So whether that's an injectable,"},{"speaker":"Annie Williams","startTime":1721.41,"endTime":1723.97,"body":"whether that's a drench, whether"},{"speaker":"Annie Williams","startTime":1723.97,"endTime":1726.49,"body":"perhaps we're putting buckets"},{"speaker":"Annie Williams","startTime":1726.49,"endTime":1728.49,"body":"out to dry cows that have been"},{"speaker":"Annie Williams","startTime":1728.49,"endTime":1729.849,"body":"turned out or something like"},{"speaker":"Annie Williams","startTime":1729.849,"endTime":1730.17,"body":"that."},{"speaker":"Annie Williams","startTime":1730.17,"endTime":1731.529,"body":"What's the what's the copper"},{"speaker":"Annie Williams","startTime":1731.529,"endTime":1733.849,"body":"content of all those where the"},{"speaker":"Annie Williams","startTime":1733.849,"endTime":1735.99,"body":"complexity comes in with copper,"},{"speaker":"Annie Williams","startTime":1735.99,"endTime":1737.569,"body":"I guess, compared to a lot of"},{"speaker":"Annie Williams","startTime":1737.569,"endTime":1739.21,"body":"other minerals is when I'm doing"},{"speaker":"Annie Williams","startTime":1739.21,"endTime":1741.369,"body":"that sort of audit work, you're"},{"speaker":"Annie Williams","startTime":1741.369,"endTime":1742.809,"body":"not just interested in what's"},{"speaker":"Annie Williams","startTime":1742.809,"endTime":1744.289,"body":"happening to that animal right"},{"speaker":"Annie Williams","startTime":1744.289,"endTime":1746.289,"body":"now, but I kind of need to know"},{"speaker":"Annie Williams","startTime":1746.289,"endTime":1747.47,"body":"what's happened to it through"},{"speaker":"Annie Williams","startTime":1747.47,"endTime":1748.89,"body":"its life."},{"speaker":"Annie Williams","startTime":1748.89,"endTime":1751.089,"body":"Where did it start as a calf?"},{"speaker":"Annie Williams","startTime":1751.089,"endTime":1756.349,"body":"Did it have milk replacer and"},{"speaker":"Annie Williams","startTime":1751.089,"endTime":1756.349,"body":"starter, or is this something"},{"speaker":"Annie Williams","startTime":1756.349,"endTime":1758.17,"body":"that's had whole milk."},{"speaker":"Annie Williams","startTime":1758.17,"endTime":1760.65,"body":"And then what's that weaning"},{"speaker":"Annie Williams","startTime":1758.17,"endTime":1760.65,"body":"process?"},{"speaker":"Annie Williams","startTime":1760.65,"endTime":1762.049,"body":"Have they then been turned out"},{"speaker":"Annie Williams","startTime":1762.049,"endTime":1763.589,"body":"onto grass where there was"},{"speaker":"Annie Williams","startTime":1763.589,"endTime":1764.73,"body":"antagonism?"},{"speaker":"Annie Williams","startTime":1764.73,"endTime":1766.869,"body":"Have we reared them inside where"},{"speaker":"Annie Williams","startTime":1766.869,"endTime":1768.349,"body":"perhaps we've had more copper in"},{"speaker":"Annie Williams","startTime":1768.349,"endTime":1769.13,"body":"that diet?"},{"speaker":"Annie Williams","startTime":1769.13,"endTime":1773.289,"body":"So also looking at that"},{"speaker":"Annie Williams","startTime":1769.13,"endTime":1773.289,"body":"accumulation that's possible"},{"speaker":"Annie Williams","startTime":1773.289,"endTime":1776.609,"body":"through the through the lifetime"},{"speaker":"Annie Williams","startTime":1773.289,"endTime":1776.609,"body":"of that animal to give us an"},{"speaker":"Annie Williams","startTime":1776.609,"endTime":1780.17,"body":"indication of what might be"},{"speaker":"Annie Williams","startTime":1776.609,"endTime":1780.17,"body":"happening to it at the point"},{"speaker":"Annie Williams","startTime":1780.17,"endTime":1781.65,"body":"that we're looking at it."},{"speaker":"Sarah Bolt","startTime":1782.289,"endTime":1783.65,"body":"So you've used the word"},{"speaker":"Sarah Bolt","startTime":1783.65,"endTime":1785.569,"body":"antagonism quite a few times"},{"speaker":"Sarah Bolt","startTime":1785.569,"endTime":1786.049,"body":"there."},{"speaker":"Sarah Bolt","startTime":1786.049,"endTime":1789.13,"body":"Can we sort of go back to basics"},{"speaker":"Sarah Bolt","startTime":1786.049,"endTime":1789.13,"body":"and really tell us what you mean"},{"speaker":"Sarah Bolt","startTime":1789.13,"endTime":1792.609,"body":"by that and what the"},{"speaker":"Sarah Bolt","startTime":1789.13,"endTime":1792.609,"body":"implications are of it."},{"speaker":"Annie Williams","startTime":1793.69,"endTime":1796.97,"body":"Antagonism in this context is"},{"speaker":"Annie Williams","startTime":1796.97,"endTime":1799.089,"body":"primarily for copper talking"},{"speaker":"Annie Williams","startTime":1799.089,"endTime":1801.569,"body":"about sulphur, molybdenum and"},{"speaker":"Annie Williams","startTime":1801.569,"endTime":1803.809,"body":"iron, which when they're in the"},{"speaker":"Annie Williams","startTime":1803.809,"endTime":1806.19,"body":"diet, go into the rumen"},{"speaker":"Annie Williams","startTime":1806.19,"endTime":1809.15,"body":"alongside copper and they bind"},{"speaker":"Annie Williams","startTime":1809.15,"endTime":1810.089,"body":"the copper."},{"speaker":"Annie Williams","startTime":1810.089,"endTime":1812.25,"body":"When they bind that copper in"},{"speaker":"Annie Williams","startTime":1812.25,"endTime":1814.085,"body":"the rumen, they make it"},{"speaker":"Annie Williams","startTime":1814.085,"endTime":1816.24,"body":"Unavailable for absorption for"},{"speaker":"Annie Williams","startTime":1816.24,"endTime":1817.119,"body":"the animal."},{"speaker":"Annie Williams","startTime":1817.119,"endTime":1818.599,"body":"So essentially, although the"},{"speaker":"Annie Williams","startTime":1818.599,"endTime":1820.359,"body":"copper is there and present, it"},{"speaker":"Annie Williams","startTime":1820.359,"endTime":1822.079,"body":"goes all the way through the"},{"speaker":"Annie Williams","startTime":1822.079,"endTime":1824.88,"body":"digestive tract and is excreted"},{"speaker":"Annie Williams","startTime":1824.88,"endTime":1826.359,"body":"bound to one of those"},{"speaker":"Annie Williams","startTime":1826.359,"endTime":1827.96,"body":"antagonists."},{"speaker":"Annie Williams","startTime":1827.96,"endTime":1831.24,"body":"Diets can be really variable in"},{"speaker":"Annie Williams","startTime":1827.96,"endTime":1831.24,"body":"antagonism."},{"speaker":"Annie Williams","startTime":1831.24,"endTime":1835.519,"body":"So we would see, for example,"},{"speaker":"Annie Williams","startTime":1831.24,"endTime":1835.519,"body":"grass based diets traditionally"},{"speaker":"Annie Williams","startTime":1835.519,"endTime":1840.94,"body":"much higher in antagonism"},{"speaker":"Annie Williams","startTime":1835.519,"endTime":1840.94,"body":"because of iron and molybdenum"},{"speaker":"Annie Williams","startTime":1840.94,"endTime":1845.44,"body":"versus more intensively fed TMR."},{"speaker":"Annie Williams","startTime":1845.44,"endTime":1847.0,"body":"Um, whether we're feeding lots"},{"speaker":"Annie Williams","startTime":1847.0,"endTime":1848.559,"body":"of cake, that sort of thing,"},{"speaker":"Annie Williams","startTime":1848.559,"endTime":1850.599,"body":"where we've got much less of"},{"speaker":"Annie Williams","startTime":1850.599,"endTime":1852.4,"body":"those elements present in the"},{"speaker":"Annie Williams","startTime":1852.4,"endTime":1853.079,"body":"diet."},{"speaker":"Andrew Jones","startTime":1855.24,"endTime":1856.759,"body":"Is the simple answer."},{"speaker":"Andrew Jones","startTime":1856.759,"endTime":1858.38,"body":"If you've got the antagonists to"},{"speaker":"Andrew Jones","startTime":1858.38,"endTime":1861.519,"body":"feed more, because then you're"},{"speaker":"Andrew Jones","startTime":1861.519,"endTime":1862.74,"body":"feeding more than what the"},{"speaker":"Andrew Jones","startTime":1862.74,"endTime":1863.96,"body":"antagonists are to give you"},{"speaker":"Andrew Jones","startTime":1863.96,"endTime":1864.68,"body":"what's available."},{"speaker":"Andrew Jones","startTime":1864.68,"endTime":1866.839,"body":"Or is that a bit of a simple"},{"speaker":"Andrew Jones","startTime":1864.68,"endTime":1866.839,"body":"answer?"},{"speaker":"Annie Williams","startTime":1867.319,"endTime":1870.2,"body":"No, I think that that is"},{"speaker":"Annie Williams","startTime":1867.319,"endTime":1870.2,"body":"absolutely the right answer."},{"speaker":"Annie Williams","startTime":1870.2,"endTime":1875.5,"body":"The only thing maybe I would add"},{"speaker":"Annie Williams","startTime":1870.2,"endTime":1875.5,"body":"is I think sometimes we overdo"},{"speaker":"Annie Williams","startTime":1875.5,"endTime":1877.72,"body":"the effect of those antagonists."},{"speaker":"Annie Williams","startTime":1877.72,"endTime":1880.4,"body":"Coming back to what you were"},{"speaker":"Annie Williams","startTime":1877.72,"endTime":1880.4,"body":"saying at the start, Andrea."},{"speaker":"Annie Williams","startTime":1880.4,"endTime":1881.64,"body":"Traditionally, thinking about"},{"speaker":"Annie Williams","startTime":1881.64,"endTime":1883.96,"body":"copper deficiency and it having"},{"speaker":"Annie Williams","startTime":1883.96,"endTime":1885.68,"body":"an effect on various things like"},{"speaker":"Annie Williams","startTime":1885.68,"endTime":1886.72,"body":"fertility."},{"speaker":"Annie Williams","startTime":1886.72,"endTime":1890.279,"body":"I think probably some of that"},{"speaker":"Annie Williams","startTime":1886.72,"endTime":1890.279,"body":"narrative came from people"},{"speaker":"Annie Williams","startTime":1890.279,"endTime":1891.2,"body":"looking at diets."},{"speaker":"Annie Williams","startTime":1891.2,"endTime":1892.44,"body":"And I get it all the time."},{"speaker":"Annie Williams","startTime":1892.44,"endTime":1893.559,"body":"People ring me up with their"},{"speaker":"Annie Williams","startTime":1893.559,"endTime":1895.48,"body":"forage analysis and say, my"},{"speaker":"Annie Williams","startTime":1895.48,"endTime":1897.4,"body":"molybdenum, the bar on it is"},{"speaker":"Annie Williams","startTime":1897.4,"endTime":1898.079,"body":"red."},{"speaker":"Annie Williams","startTime":1898.079,"endTime":1899.72,"body":"That must be really bad."},{"speaker":"Annie Williams","startTime":1899.72,"endTime":1902.44,"body":"I must need to feed more copper."},{"speaker":"Annie Williams","startTime":1902.44,"endTime":1904.359,"body":"Whereas actually, I think that"},{"speaker":"Annie Williams","startTime":1904.359,"endTime":1905.839,"body":"message has come through really"},{"speaker":"Annie Williams","startTime":1905.839,"endTime":1907.559,"body":"clearly in the industry that we"},{"speaker":"Annie Williams","startTime":1907.559,"endTime":1910.18,"body":"get copper antagonism almost to"},{"speaker":"Annie Williams","startTime":1910.18,"endTime":1911.559,"body":"the point where it's gone too"},{"speaker":"Annie Williams","startTime":1911.559,"endTime":1914.119,"body":"far and people overdo its"},{"speaker":"Annie Williams","startTime":1914.119,"endTime":1914.92,"body":"effect."},{"speaker":"Annie Williams","startTime":1914.92,"endTime":1916.44,"body":"And I'll look at analysis and"},{"speaker":"Annie Williams","startTime":1916.44,"endTime":1918.16,"body":"go, oh, it doesn't look that"},{"speaker":"Annie Williams","startTime":1918.16,"endTime":1918.48,"body":"bad."},{"speaker":"Annie Williams","startTime":1918.48,"endTime":1919.96,"body":"I think I think we're fine."},{"speaker":"Annie Williams","startTime":1919.96,"endTime":1921.5,"body":"Like that's a, that's a normal"},{"speaker":"Annie Williams","startTime":1921.5,"endTime":1923.38,"body":"sort of ish level going on"},{"speaker":"Annie Williams","startTime":1923.38,"endTime":1923.92,"body":"there."},{"speaker":"Annie Williams","startTime":1923.92,"endTime":1926.72,"body":"We don't need to massively"},{"speaker":"Annie Williams","startTime":1923.92,"endTime":1926.72,"body":"increase the copper."},{"speaker":"Annie Williams","startTime":1926.72,"endTime":1928.279,"body":"Let's leave it where it is."},{"speaker":"Andrew Jones","startTime":1928.68,"endTime":1929.64,"body":"And to be honest with you, it's"},{"speaker":"Andrew Jones","startTime":1929.64,"endTime":1930.92,"body":"the overall balance of the diet,"},{"speaker":"Andrew Jones","startTime":1930.92,"endTime":1931.24,"body":"isn't it?"},{"speaker":"Andrew Jones","startTime":1931.24,"endTime":1933.16,"body":"It's not just what the foragers"},{"speaker":"Andrew Jones","startTime":1931.24,"endTime":1933.16,"body":"are."},{"speaker":"Andrew Jones","startTime":1933.16,"endTime":1934.68,"body":"So, you know, you've got to be"},{"speaker":"Andrew Jones","startTime":1934.68,"endTime":1935.92,"body":"looking at the whole picture,"},{"speaker":"Andrew Jones","startTime":1935.92,"endTime":1938.44,"body":"not just one snapshot of that"},{"speaker":"Andrew Jones","startTime":1938.44,"endTime":1939.16,"body":"thing."},{"speaker":"Andrew Jones","startTime":1939.16,"endTime":1942.799,"body":"But if we take a look at the"},{"speaker":"Andrew Jones","startTime":1939.16,"endTime":1942.799,"body":"range, then we primarily here to"},{"speaker":"Andrew Jones","startTime":1942.799,"endTime":1944.48,"body":"talk about excess."},{"speaker":"Andrew Jones","startTime":1944.48,"endTime":1946.44,"body":"Let's talk about what deficiency"},{"speaker":"Andrew Jones","startTime":1944.48,"endTime":1946.44,"body":"does."},{"speaker":"Andrew Jones","startTime":1946.44,"endTime":1950.48,"body":"Now maybe this is one I think"},{"speaker":"Andrew Jones","startTime":1946.44,"endTime":1950.48,"body":"you said to me, was it the trail"},{"speaker":"Andrew Jones","startTime":1950.48,"endTime":1953.759,"body":"conference that a certain well"},{"speaker":"Andrew Jones","startTime":1950.48,"endTime":1953.759,"body":"known vet had made a comment"},{"speaker":"Andrew Jones","startTime":1953.759,"endTime":1956.839,"body":"that everyone goes, oh, they"},{"speaker":"Andrew Jones","startTime":1953.759,"endTime":1956.839,"body":"must be copper deficient and"},{"speaker":"Andrew Jones","startTime":1956.839,"endTime":1958.039,"body":"wishes he'd never said that."},{"speaker":"Andrew Jones","startTime":1958.039,"endTime":1960.16,"body":"Now I'm not going to name the"},{"speaker":"Andrew Jones","startTime":1958.039,"endTime":1960.16,"body":"vet."},{"speaker":"Andrew Jones","startTime":1960.16,"endTime":1961.039,"body":"You can if you want."},{"speaker":"Andrew Jones","startTime":1961.039,"endTime":1962.119,"body":"That's up to you."},{"speaker":"Andrew Jones","startTime":1962.119,"endTime":1964.319,"body":"But is that true?"},{"speaker":"Andrew Jones","startTime":1964.319,"endTime":1965.72,"body":"You know, is is that a"},{"speaker":"Andrew Jones","startTime":1965.72,"endTime":1967.039,"body":"misdemeanor that let's be"},{"speaker":"Andrew Jones","startTime":1967.039,"endTime":1967.799,"body":"honest, everybody in the"},{"speaker":"Andrew Jones","startTime":1967.799,"endTime":1968.4,"body":"industry knows."},{"speaker":"Andrew Jones","startTime":1968.4,"endTime":1970.519,"body":"You see that ginger reddish"},{"speaker":"Andrew Jones","startTime":1968.4,"endTime":1970.519,"body":"tinge?"},{"speaker":"Andrew Jones","startTime":1970.519,"endTime":1973.0,"body":"The first thing you go is copper"},{"speaker":"Andrew Jones","startTime":1970.519,"endTime":1973.0,"body":"deficient."},{"speaker":"Annie Williams","startTime":1974.0,"endTime":1975.4,"body":"Yeah. It drives me mad."},{"speaker":"Annie Williams","startTime":1975.4,"endTime":1976.64,"body":"I put something on my my"},{"speaker":"Annie Williams","startTime":1976.64,"endTime":1977.88,"body":"Instagram about it because"},{"speaker":"Annie Williams","startTime":1977.88,"endTime":1980.38,"body":"people send me pictures of cows"},{"speaker":"Annie Williams","startTime":1980.38,"endTime":1981.92,"body":"and they won't even be their own"},{"speaker":"Annie Williams","startTime":1981.92,"endTime":1982.799,"body":"cows."},{"speaker":"Annie Williams","startTime":1982.799,"endTime":1985.16,"body":"They'll just send me pictures"},{"speaker":"Annie Williams","startTime":1982.799,"endTime":1985.16,"body":"and say, these are definitely"},{"speaker":"Annie Williams","startTime":1985.16,"endTime":1986.279,"body":"copper deficient, aren't they?"},{"speaker":"Annie Williams","startTime":1986.279,"endTime":1989.24,"body":"And I'm like, you cannot tell"},{"speaker":"Annie Williams","startTime":1986.279,"endTime":1989.24,"body":"that just by looking at them."},{"speaker":"Annie Williams","startTime":1989.24,"endTime":1993.829,"body":"So what you're referring to is,"},{"speaker":"Annie Williams","startTime":1989.24,"endTime":1993.829,"body":"is a thing that people say rusty"},{"speaker":"Annie Williams","startTime":1993.829,"endTime":1997.23,"body":"coat means a copper deficiency."},{"speaker":"Annie Williams","startTime":1997.23,"endTime":2000.63,"body":"Yes, it can be a sign, but it's"},{"speaker":"Annie Williams","startTime":1997.23,"endTime":2000.63,"body":"not."},{"speaker":"Annie Williams","startTime":2000.63,"endTime":2001.869,"body":"If you were a vet, you would say"},{"speaker":"Annie Williams","startTime":2001.869,"endTime":2002.99,"body":"it's not a differential"},{"speaker":"Annie Williams","startTime":2002.99,"endTime":2004.109,"body":"diagnosis."},{"speaker":"Annie Williams","startTime":2004.109,"endTime":2006.67,"body":"There's other things that it can"},{"speaker":"Annie Williams","startTime":2004.109,"endTime":2006.67,"body":"be."},{"speaker":"Annie Williams","startTime":2006.67,"endTime":2008.509,"body":"For example, it can literally be"},{"speaker":"Annie Williams","startTime":2008.509,"endTime":2012.029,"body":"sunlight that has bleached the"},{"speaker":"Annie Williams","startTime":2012.029,"endTime":2013.91,"body":"coat of those animals, and then"},{"speaker":"Annie Williams","startTime":2013.91,"endTime":2015.869,"body":"they look like they're a bit"},{"speaker":"Annie Williams","startTime":2015.869,"endTime":2017.43,"body":"rusty coated."},{"speaker":"Annie Williams","startTime":2017.43,"endTime":2020.269,"body":"I wouldn't be using it as a yes."},{"speaker":"Annie Williams","startTime":2020.269,"endTime":2022.71,"body":"Those animals definitely need"},{"speaker":"Annie Williams","startTime":2020.269,"endTime":2022.71,"body":"more copper."},{"speaker":"Annie Williams","startTime":2022.71,"endTime":2027.13,"body":"I'd need to see more evidence"},{"speaker":"Annie Williams","startTime":2022.71,"endTime":2027.13,"body":"that that was the case before"},{"speaker":"Annie Williams","startTime":2027.13,"endTime":2030.309,"body":"assuming that you've got a"},{"speaker":"Annie Williams","startTime":2027.13,"endTime":2030.309,"body":"copper deficiency, and"},{"speaker":"Annie Williams","startTime":2030.309,"endTime":2033.309,"body":"definitely before assuming"},{"speaker":"Annie Williams","startTime":2030.309,"endTime":2033.309,"body":"you've got a copper deficiency"},{"speaker":"Annie Williams","startTime":2033.309,"endTime":2034.39,"body":"in a dairy cow."},{"speaker":"Andrew Jones","startTime":2034.63,"endTime":2038.99,"body":"So would you maybe say, look,"},{"speaker":"Andrew Jones","startTime":2034.63,"endTime":2038.99,"body":"it's an initial sign that maybe"},{"speaker":"Andrew Jones","startTime":2038.99,"endTime":2041.67,"body":"if you've got a problem is an"},{"speaker":"Andrew Jones","startTime":2038.99,"endTime":2041.67,"body":"indication where maybe you"},{"speaker":"Andrew Jones","startTime":2041.67,"endTime":2044.829,"body":"should start investigating, but"},{"speaker":"Andrew Jones","startTime":2041.67,"endTime":2044.829,"body":"don't take it as gospel, that"},{"speaker":"Andrew Jones","startTime":2044.829,"endTime":2046.47,"body":"that's definitely what it is."},{"speaker":"Annie Williams","startTime":2046.91,"endTime":2048.71,"body":"Yeah, absolutely."},{"speaker":"Annie Williams","startTime":2048.71,"endTime":2051.51,"body":"that there could be lots of"},{"speaker":"Annie Williams","startTime":2048.71,"endTime":2051.51,"body":"reasons why that's happening."},{"speaker":"Annie Williams","startTime":2051.51,"endTime":2055.869,"body":"So let's, let's put it into the"},{"speaker":"Annie Williams","startTime":2051.51,"endTime":2055.869,"body":"system and evaluate whether we"},{"speaker":"Annie Williams","startTime":2055.869,"endTime":2057.269,"body":"think that's true or not."},{"speaker":"Andrew Jones","startTime":2058.349,"endTime":2058.75,"body":"That's good."},{"speaker":"Andrew Jones","startTime":2058.75,"endTime":2059.869,"body":"So so what are some of the"},{"speaker":"Andrew Jones","startTime":2059.869,"endTime":2061.75,"body":"symptoms of copper deficiency"},{"speaker":"Andrew Jones","startTime":2061.75,"endTime":2061.909,"body":"then?"},{"speaker":"Andrew Jones","startTime":2061.909,"endTime":2064.429,"body":"Because we said we'll start"},{"speaker":"Andrew Jones","startTime":2061.909,"endTime":2064.429,"body":"there and then move our way up"},{"speaker":"Andrew Jones","startTime":2064.429,"endTime":2065.789,"body":"across the spectrum."},{"speaker":"Annie Williams","startTime":2066.67,"endTime":2068.849,"body":"And I guess this is the"},{"speaker":"Annie Williams","startTime":2066.67,"endTime":2068.849,"body":"challenge with copper, as is"},{"speaker":"Annie Williams","startTime":2068.849,"endTime":2070.949,"body":"actually probably the case with"},{"speaker":"Annie Williams","startTime":2068.849,"endTime":2070.949,"body":"a lot of minerals."},{"speaker":"Annie Williams","startTime":2070.949,"endTime":2075.55,"body":"That deficiency looks very"},{"speaker":"Annie Williams","startTime":2070.949,"endTime":2075.55,"body":"similar to excess deficiency."},{"speaker":"Annie Williams","startTime":2075.55,"endTime":2080.389,"body":"We would have poor growth rates,"},{"speaker":"Annie Williams","startTime":2075.55,"endTime":2080.389,"body":"we would have poor fertility."},{"speaker":"Annie Williams","startTime":2080.389,"endTime":2084.11,"body":"We would perhaps have animals"},{"speaker":"Annie Williams","startTime":2080.389,"endTime":2084.11,"body":"within a group where and we see"},{"speaker":"Annie Williams","startTime":2084.11,"endTime":2087.11,"body":"this on farm regularly, don't"},{"speaker":"Annie Williams","startTime":2084.11,"endTime":2087.11,"body":"we, where you've kind of got a"},{"speaker":"Annie Williams","startTime":2087.11,"endTime":2089.909,"body":"disease burden that kind of"},{"speaker":"Annie Williams","startTime":2087.11,"endTime":2089.909,"body":"won't go away."},{"speaker":"Annie Williams","startTime":2089.909,"endTime":2090.909,"body":"And you're like, why?"},{"speaker":"Annie Williams","startTime":2090.909,"endTime":2092.63,"body":"Why does this particular group"},{"speaker":"Annie Williams","startTime":2092.63,"endTime":2095.21,"body":"of animals seem more prone to"},{"speaker":"Annie Williams","startTime":2095.21,"endTime":2097.03,"body":"disease than these other groups"},{"speaker":"Annie Williams","startTime":2097.03,"endTime":2098.23,"body":"that I've had on the farm"},{"speaker":"Annie Williams","startTime":2098.23,"endTime":2099.309,"body":"previously?"},{"speaker":"Annie Williams","startTime":2099.309,"endTime":2103.19,"body":"Just an indication that the"},{"speaker":"Annie Williams","startTime":2099.309,"endTime":2103.19,"body":"immune system is not working as"},{"speaker":"Annie Williams","startTime":2103.19,"endTime":2105.07,"body":"well as it could be."},{"speaker":"Annie Williams","startTime":2105.07,"endTime":2106.389,"body":"But yeah, so they would be the"},{"speaker":"Annie Williams","startTime":2106.389,"endTime":2107.739,"body":"primary things that we'd see in"},{"speaker":"Annie Williams","startTime":2107.739,"endTime":2108.619,"body":"deficiency."},{"speaker":"Annie Williams","startTime":2108.619,"endTime":2109.96,"body":"There would also be the primary"},{"speaker":"Annie Williams","startTime":2109.96,"endTime":2111.5,"body":"things that we would see in"},{"speaker":"Annie Williams","startTime":2111.5,"endTime":2112.179,"body":"excess."},{"speaker":"Andrew Jones","startTime":2112.019,"endTime":2113.78,"body":"Not not helping here are you?"},{"speaker":"Andrew Jones","startTime":2116.98,"endTime":2119.94,"body":"So so obviously when everything"},{"speaker":"Andrew Jones","startTime":2116.98,"endTime":2119.94,"body":"we move across the spectrum,"},{"speaker":"Andrew Jones","startTime":2119.94,"endTime":2121.179,"body":"you've got the deficiency."},{"speaker":"Andrew Jones","startTime":2121.179,"endTime":2122.98,"body":"When things are good, I'm"},{"speaker":"Andrew Jones","startTime":2121.179,"endTime":2122.98,"body":"guessing things are good."},{"speaker":"Andrew Jones","startTime":2122.98,"endTime":2124.219,"body":"But what you're saying is when"},{"speaker":"Andrew Jones","startTime":2124.219,"endTime":2125.98,"body":"they're in excess, they're the"},{"speaker":"Andrew Jones","startTime":2125.98,"endTime":2126.78,"body":"same symptoms."},{"speaker":"Andrew Jones","startTime":2126.78,"endTime":2129.139,"body":"Are there any other symptoms as"},{"speaker":"Andrew Jones","startTime":2126.78,"endTime":2129.139,"body":"well?"},{"speaker":"Annie Williams","startTime":2131.3,"endTime":2131.94,"body":"Excess."},{"speaker":"Annie Williams","startTime":2131.94,"endTime":2135.019,"body":"What what happens in excess is"},{"speaker":"Annie Williams","startTime":2135.019,"endTime":2137.519,"body":"excess is due to too much"},{"speaker":"Annie Williams","startTime":2137.519,"endTime":2139.099,"body":"accumulation of copper in the"},{"speaker":"Annie Williams","startTime":2139.099,"endTime":2139.699,"body":"liver."},{"speaker":"Annie Williams","startTime":2139.699,"endTime":2142.4,"body":"And I'm really careful in my"},{"speaker":"Annie Williams","startTime":2139.699,"endTime":2142.4,"body":"wording there because I used to"},{"speaker":"Annie Williams","startTime":2142.4,"endTime":2144.139,"body":"call it too much storage."},{"speaker":"Annie Williams","startTime":2144.139,"endTime":2147.94,"body":"But I think storage sounds like"},{"speaker":"Annie Williams","startTime":2144.139,"endTime":2147.94,"body":"a good thing and accumulation"},{"speaker":"Annie Williams","startTime":2147.94,"endTime":2149.26,"body":"perhaps sounds like a bad thing."},{"speaker":"Annie Williams","startTime":2149.26,"endTime":2153.059,"body":"So I've kind of changed my"},{"speaker":"Annie Williams","startTime":2149.26,"endTime":2153.059,"body":"language around that a little"},{"speaker":"Annie Williams","startTime":2153.059,"endTime":2155.34,"body":"bit to say copper accumulation."},{"speaker":"Annie Williams","startTime":2155.34,"endTime":2161.519,"body":"And what we effectively get with"},{"speaker":"Annie Williams","startTime":2155.34,"endTime":2161.519,"body":"excessive copper accumulation is"},{"speaker":"Annie Williams","startTime":2161.519,"endTime":2163.579,"body":"an effect on the liver."},{"speaker":"Annie Williams","startTime":2163.579,"endTime":2165.914,"body":"That is the closest thing we can"},{"speaker":"Annie Williams","startTime":2165.914,"endTime":2168.21,"body":"liken it to is an alcoholic"},{"speaker":"Annie Williams","startTime":2168.21,"endTime":2169.489,"body":"person."},{"speaker":"Annie Williams","startTime":2169.489,"endTime":2173.57,"body":"So the symptoms that we would"},{"speaker":"Annie Williams","startTime":2169.489,"endTime":2173.57,"body":"see in terms of poor liver"},{"speaker":"Annie Williams","startTime":2173.57,"endTime":2179.329,"body":"health would be similar in a"},{"speaker":"Annie Williams","startTime":2173.57,"endTime":2179.329,"body":"person to a cow that's got an"},{"speaker":"Annie Williams","startTime":2179.329,"endTime":2181.53,"body":"excess of copper."},{"speaker":"Annie Williams","startTime":2181.53,"endTime":2184.449,"body":"That's the way that I tend to"},{"speaker":"Annie Williams","startTime":2181.53,"endTime":2184.449,"body":"explain it to people to really"},{"speaker":"Annie Williams","startTime":2184.449,"endTime":2185.25,"body":"get across that."},{"speaker":"Annie Williams","startTime":2185.25,"endTime":2190.69,"body":"We do not want to see this"},{"speaker":"Annie Williams","startTime":2185.25,"endTime":2190.69,"body":"excessive copper in the liver."},{"speaker":"Annie Williams","startTime":2190.69,"endTime":2193.409,"body":"And what we would tend to see is"},{"speaker":"Annie Williams","startTime":2193.409,"endTime":2195.809,"body":"things like poor conception"},{"speaker":"Annie Williams","startTime":2195.809,"endTime":2196.849,"body":"rates."},{"speaker":"Annie Williams","startTime":2196.849,"endTime":2199.73,"body":"We actually tend to find that,"},{"speaker":"Annie Williams","startTime":2196.849,"endTime":2199.73,"body":"particularly in younger animals,"},{"speaker":"Annie Williams","startTime":2199.73,"endTime":2202.09,"body":"perhaps they grow quite well."},{"speaker":"Annie Williams","startTime":2202.09,"endTime":2205.57,"body":"But then actually when it comes"},{"speaker":"Annie Williams","startTime":2202.09,"endTime":2205.57,"body":"to getting them in calf, that's"},{"speaker":"Annie Williams","startTime":2205.57,"endTime":2207.21,"body":"quite a challenge."},{"speaker":"Annie Williams","startTime":2207.21,"endTime":2209.409,"body":"Um, that can be an indication"},{"speaker":"Annie Williams","startTime":2209.409,"endTime":2211.17,"body":"that perhaps we've got some sort"},{"speaker":"Annie Williams","startTime":2211.17,"endTime":2213.489,"body":"of pressure on the liver in that"},{"speaker":"Annie Williams","startTime":2213.489,"endTime":2214.809,"body":"situation."},{"speaker":"Annie Williams","startTime":2214.809,"endTime":2216.75,"body":"Things like not responding to,"},{"speaker":"Annie Williams","startTime":2216.75,"endTime":2218.53,"body":"to vaccines as well as they"},{"speaker":"Annie Williams","startTime":2218.53,"endTime":2219.05,"body":"should be."},{"speaker":"Annie Williams","startTime":2219.05,"endTime":2220.25,"body":"And again, that's difficult"},{"speaker":"Annie Williams","startTime":2220.25,"endTime":2221.469,"body":"because how do you start to"},{"speaker":"Annie Williams","startTime":2221.469,"endTime":2222.21,"body":"assess that?"},{"speaker":"Annie Williams","startTime":2222.21,"endTime":2225.429,"body":"How do you start to understand"},{"speaker":"Annie Williams","startTime":2222.21,"endTime":2225.429,"body":"whether that's the case, and I"},{"speaker":"Annie Williams","startTime":2225.429,"endTime":2227.829,"body":"guess this is probably one of"},{"speaker":"Annie Williams","startTime":2225.429,"endTime":2227.829,"body":"the challenges that we've got,"},{"speaker":"Annie Williams","startTime":2227.829,"endTime":2231.75,"body":"that we can measure these things"},{"speaker":"Annie Williams","startTime":2227.829,"endTime":2231.75,"body":"directly within research trials,"},{"speaker":"Annie Williams","startTime":2231.75,"endTime":2235.25,"body":"but what are we actually looking"},{"speaker":"Annie Williams","startTime":2231.75,"endTime":2235.25,"body":"for on farm?"},{"speaker":"Annie Williams","startTime":2235.25,"endTime":2237.13,"body":"Can be quite difficult until we"},{"speaker":"Annie Williams","startTime":2237.13,"endTime":2239.409,"body":"get to the point where we have"},{"speaker":"Annie Williams","startTime":2239.409,"endTime":2240.889,"body":"got animals dropping dead"},{"speaker":"Annie Williams","startTime":2240.889,"endTime":2243.11,"body":"because of copper toxicity,"},{"speaker":"Annie Williams","startTime":2243.11,"endTime":2245.329,"body":"trying to actually tie it down"},{"speaker":"Annie Williams","startTime":2245.329,"endTime":2245.57,"body":"to."},{"speaker":"Annie Williams","startTime":2245.57,"endTime":2246.449,"body":"Absolutely."},{"speaker":"Annie Williams","startTime":2246.449,"endTime":2250.449,"body":"This is what you would see if"},{"speaker":"Annie Williams","startTime":2246.449,"endTime":2250.449,"body":"you had a problem on your farm."},{"speaker":"Annie Williams","startTime":2250.449,"endTime":2252.01,"body":"It's really quite difficult."},{"speaker":"Andrew Jones","startTime":2253.61,"endTime":2254.969,"body":"Okay. I was going to say that"},{"speaker":"Andrew Jones","startTime":2254.969,"endTime":2256.15,"body":"was going to be my, my sort of"},{"speaker":"Andrew Jones","startTime":2256.15,"endTime":2258.369,"body":"next question, I guess, was how"},{"speaker":"Andrew Jones","startTime":2258.369,"endTime":2260.889,"body":"quickly, how soon or, you know,"},{"speaker":"Andrew Jones","startTime":2260.889,"endTime":2262.929,"body":"obviously death is the ultimate,"},{"speaker":"Andrew Jones","startTime":2262.929,"endTime":2265.09,"body":"but at what point do does death"},{"speaker":"Andrew Jones","startTime":2265.09,"endTime":2265.409,"body":"happen?"},{"speaker":"Andrew Jones","startTime":2265.409,"endTime":2268.329,"body":"But what you're saying is it can"},{"speaker":"Andrew Jones","startTime":2265.409,"endTime":2268.329,"body":"vary from farm to farm, because"},{"speaker":"Andrew Jones","startTime":2268.329,"endTime":2271.09,"body":"I guess it all depends on what's"},{"speaker":"Andrew Jones","startTime":2268.329,"endTime":2271.09,"body":"there and how long it's taking"},{"speaker":"Andrew Jones","startTime":2271.09,"endTime":2272.769,"body":"to build, etcetera, etcetera."},{"speaker":"Annie Williams","startTime":2273.57,"endTime":2274.969,"body":"Yeah, absolutely."},{"speaker":"Annie Williams","startTime":2274.969,"endTime":2277.61,"body":"And cattle are pretty resilient."},{"speaker":"Annie Williams","startTime":2277.61,"endTime":2281.65,"body":"So we haven't got cows dropping"},{"speaker":"Annie Williams","startTime":2277.61,"endTime":2281.65,"body":"dead everywhere."},{"speaker":"Annie Williams","startTime":2281.65,"endTime":2286.75,"body":"In fact, I think I looked up how"},{"speaker":"Annie Williams","startTime":2281.65,"endTime":2286.75,"body":"many cows we have died before"},{"speaker":"Annie Williams","startTime":2286.75,"endTime":2289.809,"body":"coming onto the podcast, and I'm"},{"speaker":"Annie Williams","startTime":2286.75,"endTime":2289.809,"body":"going to look it up."},{"speaker":"Annie Williams","startTime":2289.809,"endTime":2291.55,"body":"One hundred and forty eight"},{"speaker":"Annie Williams","startTime":2291.55,"endTime":2293.849,"body":"between twenty thirteen and"},{"speaker":"Annie Williams","startTime":2293.849,"endTime":2297.07,"body":"twenty twenty four that APhA"},{"speaker":"Annie Williams","startTime":2297.07,"endTime":2298.989,"body":"have reported as because of"},{"speaker":"Annie Williams","startTime":2298.989,"endTime":2300.69,"body":"copper toxicity, that was the"},{"speaker":"Annie Williams","startTime":2300.69,"endTime":2301.889,"body":"primary cause."},{"speaker":"Andrew Jones","startTime":2302.05,"endTime":2305.329,"body":"Which which relatively isn't a"},{"speaker":"Andrew Jones","startTime":2302.05,"endTime":2305.329,"body":"big number."},{"speaker":"Annie Williams","startTime":2305.65,"endTime":2307.09,"body":"Relatively small."},{"speaker":"Annie Williams","startTime":2307.09,"endTime":2310.309,"body":"So it's trying to focus on this"},{"speaker":"Annie Williams","startTime":2310.309,"endTime":2312.849,"body":"sort of subclinical area of what"},{"speaker":"Annie Williams","startTime":2312.849,"endTime":2314.289,"body":"are we losing in terms of"},{"speaker":"Annie Williams","startTime":2314.289,"endTime":2317.409,"body":"performance is where it's much"},{"speaker":"Annie Williams","startTime":2317.409,"endTime":2319.449,"body":"harder to start to, to quantify"},{"speaker":"Annie Williams","startTime":2319.449,"endTime":2321.69,"body":"those impacts and understand,"},{"speaker":"Annie Williams","startTime":2321.69,"endTime":2325.05,"body":"certainly within the UK herd,"},{"speaker":"Annie Williams","startTime":2325.05,"endTime":2326.329,"body":"what is the effect that we're"},{"speaker":"Annie Williams","startTime":2326.329,"endTime":2326.929,"body":"having?"},{"speaker":"Annie Williams","startTime":2326.929,"endTime":2329.05,"body":"How can we start to look at some"},{"speaker":"Annie Williams","startTime":2329.05,"endTime":2330.69,"body":"of the research that's out there"},{"speaker":"Annie Williams","startTime":2330.69,"endTime":2332.489,"body":"and multiply that up to say,"},{"speaker":"Annie Williams","startTime":2332.489,"endTime":2334.17,"body":"okay, well, if we're having this"},{"speaker":"Annie Williams","startTime":2334.17,"endTime":2336.389,"body":"much reduction on conception, if"},{"speaker":"Annie Williams","startTime":2336.389,"endTime":2338.25,"body":"we're having this much change in"},{"speaker":"Annie Williams","startTime":2338.25,"endTime":2339.929,"body":"growth, what are the overall"},{"speaker":"Annie Williams","startTime":2339.929,"endTime":2340.61,"body":"impacts?"},{"speaker":"Annie Williams","startTime":2340.61,"endTime":2344.199,"body":"I think that's probably the next"},{"speaker":"Annie Williams","startTime":2340.61,"endTime":2344.199,"body":"stage that we need to go to in"},{"speaker":"Annie Williams","startTime":2344.199,"endTime":2347.139,"body":"research, so that we can"},{"speaker":"Annie Williams","startTime":2344.199,"endTime":2347.139,"body":"actually really put some"},{"speaker":"Annie Williams","startTime":2347.139,"endTime":2352.099,"body":"performance data forward onto"},{"speaker":"Annie Williams","startTime":2347.139,"endTime":2352.099,"body":"farm and say, okay, these are if"},{"speaker":"Annie Williams","startTime":2352.099,"endTime":2355.8,"body":"you've got copper excesses, this"},{"speaker":"Annie Williams","startTime":2352.099,"endTime":2355.8,"body":"is how it's impacting your"},{"speaker":"Annie Williams","startTime":2355.8,"endTime":2358.719,"body":"performance and this is how it's"},{"speaker":"Annie Williams","startTime":2355.8,"endTime":2358.719,"body":"impacting your bottom line."},{"speaker":"Sarah Bolt","startTime":2359.8,"endTime":2363.0,"body":"And equally, if it's, if it's an"},{"speaker":"Sarah Bolt","startTime":2359.8,"endTime":2363.0,"body":"excess, they're actually feeding"},{"speaker":"Sarah Bolt","startTime":2363.0,"endTime":2365.519,"body":"something that they don't need"},{"speaker":"Sarah Bolt","startTime":2363.0,"endTime":2365.519,"body":"to be feeding and actually could"},{"speaker":"Sarah Bolt","startTime":2365.519,"endTime":2368.42,"body":"be saving themselves, spending"},{"speaker":"Sarah Bolt","startTime":2365.519,"endTime":2368.42,"body":"the money on that in the first,"},{"speaker":"Sarah Bolt","startTime":2368.42,"endTime":2369.28,"body":"in the first place."},{"speaker":"Sarah Bolt","startTime":2369.28,"endTime":2372.719,"body":"So it's a, it's a, it's a win"},{"speaker":"Sarah Bolt","startTime":2369.28,"endTime":2372.719,"body":"win both ways, isn't it?"},{"speaker":"Annie Williams","startTime":2372.76,"endTime":2373.88,"body":"Yeah. For sure."},{"speaker":"Annie Williams","startTime":2373.88,"endTime":2374.88,"body":"Definitely."},{"speaker":"Andrew Jones","startTime":2375.119,"endTime":2376.239,"body":"You mentioned UK."},{"speaker":"Andrew Jones","startTime":2376.239,"endTime":2377.32,"body":"What about the rest of the"},{"speaker":"Andrew Jones","startTime":2376.239,"endTime":2377.32,"body":"world?"},{"speaker":"Andrew Jones","startTime":2377.32,"endTime":2380.719,"body":"Because I mean, again looking at"},{"speaker":"Andrew Jones","startTime":2377.32,"endTime":2380.719,"body":"some bits and pieces I see."},{"speaker":"Andrew Jones","startTime":2380.719,"endTime":2383.44,"body":"Is it NASEM 2021."},{"speaker":"Andrew Jones","startTime":2383.44,"endTime":2386.96,"body":"Um revised dry cow copper"},{"speaker":"Andrew Jones","startTime":2383.44,"endTime":2386.96,"body":"requirements upward by forty"},{"speaker":"Andrew Jones","startTime":2386.96,"endTime":2390.36,"body":"percent while high producing cow"},{"speaker":"Andrew Jones","startTime":2386.96,"endTime":2390.36,"body":"requirements actually decreased"},{"speaker":"Andrew Jones","startTime":2390.36,"endTime":2392.159,"body":"by forty five percent."},{"speaker":"Andrew Jones","startTime":2392.159,"endTime":2393.639,"body":"So there's definitely."},{"speaker":"Andrew Jones","startTime":2395.84,"endTime":2397.199,"body":"Updates that have come, you"},{"speaker":"Andrew Jones","startTime":2397.199,"endTime":2398.159,"body":"know, as an industry, we're"},{"speaker":"Andrew Jones","startTime":2398.159,"endTime":2398.96,"body":"realizing something."},{"speaker":"Andrew Jones","startTime":2398.96,"endTime":2400.84,"body":"But what what do you see?"},{"speaker":"Andrew Jones","startTime":2400.84,"endTime":2402.639,"body":"You say you're obviously working"},{"speaker":"Andrew Jones","startTime":2400.84,"endTime":2402.639,"body":"around the world."},{"speaker":"Andrew Jones","startTime":2402.639,"endTime":2405.4,"body":"What do you see in terms of"},{"speaker":"Andrew Jones","startTime":2402.639,"endTime":2405.4,"body":"copper elsewhere in the world?"},{"speaker":"Annie Williams","startTime":2406.079,"endTime":2408.46,"body":"Yeah. So those updates from NASA"},{"speaker":"Annie Williams","startTime":2408.46,"endTime":2410.28,"body":"are interesting because that was"},{"speaker":"Annie Williams","startTime":2410.28,"endTime":2411.639,"body":"because they changed the way"},{"speaker":"Annie Williams","startTime":2411.639,"endTime":2413.36,"body":"that they calculate mineral"},{"speaker":"Annie Williams","startTime":2413.36,"endTime":2415.48,"body":"requirements for cows across the"},{"speaker":"Annie Williams","startTime":2415.48,"endTime":2416.199,"body":"board."},{"speaker":"Annie Williams","startTime":2416.199,"endTime":2420.019,"body":"So they basically changed from a"},{"speaker":"Annie Williams","startTime":2416.199,"endTime":2420.019,"body":"body weight basis to a dry"},{"speaker":"Annie Williams","startTime":2420.019,"endTime":2421.88,"body":"matter intake basis."},{"speaker":"Annie Williams","startTime":2421.88,"endTime":2425.139,"body":"When you think about that in"},{"speaker":"Annie Williams","startTime":2421.88,"endTime":2425.139,"body":"terms of what a dry cow eats"},{"speaker":"Annie Williams","startTime":2425.139,"endTime":2428.76,"body":"compared to a lactating cow,"},{"speaker":"Annie Williams","startTime":2425.139,"endTime":2428.76,"body":"you're kind of landing at the"},{"speaker":"Annie Williams","startTime":2428.76,"endTime":2431.96,"body":"same number by changing the way"},{"speaker":"Annie Williams","startTime":2428.76,"endTime":2431.96,"body":"that you calculate."},{"speaker":"Annie Williams","startTime":2431.96,"endTime":2433.599,"body":"So that kind of makes sense"},{"speaker":"Annie Williams","startTime":2433.599,"endTime":2435.559,"body":"working across the world, I"},{"speaker":"Annie Williams","startTime":2435.559,"endTime":2436.239,"body":"would say."},{"speaker":"Annie Williams","startTime":2436.239,"endTime":2439.5,"body":"We used to see a very similar"},{"speaker":"Annie Williams","startTime":2436.239,"endTime":2439.5,"body":"picture in the US compared to"},{"speaker":"Annie Williams","startTime":2439.5,"endTime":2443.719,"body":"the UK in terms of copper being"},{"speaker":"Annie Williams","startTime":2439.5,"endTime":2443.719,"body":"supplied in excess."},{"speaker":"Annie Williams","startTime":2443.719,"endTime":2446.76,"body":"I don't see anywhere near that"},{"speaker":"Annie Williams","startTime":2443.719,"endTime":2446.76,"body":"level anymore."},{"speaker":"Annie Williams","startTime":2446.76,"endTime":2448.8,"body":"They've drastically reduced"},{"speaker":"Annie Williams","startTime":2448.8,"endTime":2451.48,"body":"their their copper inputs in the"},{"speaker":"Annie Williams","startTime":2451.48,"endTime":2453.159,"body":"US."},{"speaker":"Annie Williams","startTime":2453.159,"endTime":2456.0,"body":"That's down to a lot of work"},{"speaker":"Annie Williams","startTime":2453.159,"endTime":2456.0,"body":"from the academics over there."},{"speaker":"Annie Williams","startTime":2456.0,"endTime":2459.15,"body":"They're very, very good at"},{"speaker":"Annie Williams","startTime":2456.0,"endTime":2459.15,"body":"translating research into"},{"speaker":"Annie Williams","startTime":2459.15,"endTime":2462.17,"body":"practice and really getting out"},{"speaker":"Annie Williams","startTime":2459.15,"endTime":2462.17,"body":"there and speaking to"},{"speaker":"Annie Williams","startTime":2462.17,"endTime":2465.07,"body":"nutritionists, putting the"},{"speaker":"Annie Williams","startTime":2462.17,"endTime":2465.07,"body":"evidence forward and saying,"},{"speaker":"Annie Williams","startTime":2465.07,"endTime":2466.829,"body":"this is why we need to do it."},{"speaker":"Sarah Bolt","startTime":2467.11,"endTime":2470.309,"body":"They've got great extension"},{"speaker":"Sarah Bolt","startTime":2467.11,"endTime":2470.309,"body":"teams out there, haven't they?"},{"speaker":"Sarah Bolt","startTime":2470.309,"endTime":2474.269,"body":"You know, compared to, to, to"},{"speaker":"Sarah Bolt","startTime":2470.309,"endTime":2474.269,"body":"what we've got in the UK or even"},{"speaker":"Sarah Bolt","startTime":2474.269,"endTime":2479.71,"body":"in New Zealand, that the US have"},{"speaker":"Sarah Bolt","startTime":2474.269,"endTime":2479.71,"body":"got some fantastic extension."},{"speaker":"Annie Williams","startTime":2479.829,"endTime":2480.829,"body":"Yeah, amazing."},{"speaker":"Annie Williams","startTime":2480.829,"endTime":2482.389,"body":"And they do some amazing work."},{"speaker":"Annie Williams","startTime":2482.389,"endTime":2483.67,"body":"So I love working out there."},{"speaker":"Annie Williams","startTime":2483.67,"endTime":2486.389,"body":"I actually went out there on my"},{"speaker":"Annie Williams","startTime":2483.67,"endTime":2486.389,"body":"Nuffield and thought I probably"},{"speaker":"Annie Williams","startTime":2486.389,"endTime":2489.389,"body":"shouldn't say this, but I"},{"speaker":"Annie Williams","startTime":2486.389,"endTime":2489.389,"body":"actually thought I'd hate it and"},{"speaker":"Annie Williams","startTime":2489.389,"endTime":2491.15,"body":"I absolutely loved it."},{"speaker":"Annie Williams","startTime":2491.15,"endTime":2495.01,"body":"And I now have a lot of clients"},{"speaker":"Annie Williams","startTime":2491.15,"endTime":2495.01,"body":"over in the US that I do all"},{"speaker":"Annie Williams","startTime":2495.01,"endTime":2498.71,"body":"their mineral formulating for"},{"speaker":"Annie Williams","startTime":2495.01,"endTime":2498.71,"body":"love, working with clients out"},{"speaker":"Annie Williams","startTime":2498.71,"endTime":2506.15,"body":"there, but I think we should"},{"speaker":"Annie Williams","startTime":2498.71,"endTime":2506.15,"body":"caveat that they that they do"},{"speaker":"Annie Williams","startTime":2506.15,"endTime":2509.909,"body":"have an easier system when it"},{"speaker":"Annie Williams","startTime":2506.15,"endTime":2509.909,"body":"comes to something like this."},{"speaker":"Annie Williams","startTime":2509.909,"endTime":2514.71,"body":"Whereas we're battling with how"},{"speaker":"Annie Williams","startTime":2509.909,"endTime":2514.71,"body":"much copper does a cow need and"},{"speaker":"Annie Williams","startTime":2514.71,"endTime":2515.829,"body":"a grazing system?"},{"speaker":"Annie Williams","startTime":2515.829,"endTime":2518.9,"body":"How much copper do they need in"},{"speaker":"Annie Williams","startTime":2515.829,"endTime":2518.9,"body":"a fully housed TMR?"},{"speaker":"Annie Williams","startTime":2518.9,"endTime":2520.059,"body":"What if you're doing something"},{"speaker":"Annie Williams","startTime":2520.059,"endTime":2521.28,"body":"in the middle of those two"},{"speaker":"Annie Williams","startTime":2521.28,"endTime":2522.699,"body":"systems?"},{"speaker":"Annie Williams","startTime":2522.699,"endTime":2527.099,"body":"Really, when I'm feeding herds"},{"speaker":"Annie Williams","startTime":2522.699,"endTime":2527.099,"body":"in the US, I know what system"},{"speaker":"Annie Williams","startTime":2527.099,"endTime":2529.42,"body":"they're going into as a calf."},{"speaker":"Annie Williams","startTime":2529.42,"endTime":2530.619,"body":"I know how they're going to be"},{"speaker":"Annie Williams","startTime":2530.619,"endTime":2532.94,"body":"reared as young stock, and then"},{"speaker":"Annie Williams","startTime":2532.94,"endTime":2535.46,"body":"I know the majority of their"},{"speaker":"Annie Williams","startTime":2535.46,"endTime":2536.94,"body":"time they're coming into a fully"},{"speaker":"Annie Williams","startTime":2536.94,"endTime":2539.179,"body":"housed TMR based on maize"},{"speaker":"Annie Williams","startTime":2539.179,"endTime":2540.099,"body":"silage."},{"speaker":"Andrew Jones","startTime":2539.94,"endTime":2541.94,"body":"They don't have the grass do"},{"speaker":"Andrew Jones","startTime":2539.94,"endTime":2541.94,"body":"they?"},{"speaker":"Andrew Jones","startTime":2541.94,"endTime":2545.579,"body":"They don't have the that's the"},{"speaker":"Andrew Jones","startTime":2541.94,"endTime":2545.579,"body":"big variability is the grass."},{"speaker":"Andrew Jones","startTime":2545.579,"endTime":2548.38,"body":"And they're not feeding grass in"},{"speaker":"Andrew Jones","startTime":2545.579,"endTime":2548.38,"body":"the way that we are here."},{"speaker":"Annie Williams","startTime":2548.86,"endTime":2551.42,"body":"No. And you know, when you talk"},{"speaker":"Annie Williams","startTime":2548.86,"endTime":2551.42,"body":"to them and we're talking about"},{"speaker":"Annie Williams","startTime":2551.42,"endTime":2554.34,"body":"the challenges of, say, feeding"},{"speaker":"Annie Williams","startTime":2551.42,"endTime":2554.34,"body":"dry cows, and you're like, the"},{"speaker":"Annie Williams","startTime":2554.34,"endTime":2556.539,"body":"only raw material I've got"},{"speaker":"Annie Williams","startTime":2554.34,"endTime":2556.539,"body":"available is grass silage."},{"speaker":"Annie Williams","startTime":2556.539,"endTime":2557.9,"body":"They just think that's crazy."},{"speaker":"Annie Williams","startTime":2557.9,"endTime":2559.34,"body":"They're like, what are you"},{"speaker":"Annie Williams","startTime":2557.9,"endTime":2559.34,"body":"talking about?"},{"speaker":"Annie Williams","startTime":2559.34,"endTime":2561.98,"body":"Trying to feed grass silage to a"},{"speaker":"Annie Williams","startTime":2559.34,"endTime":2561.98,"body":"dry cow."},{"speaker":"Annie Williams","startTime":2561.98,"endTime":2566.44,"body":"But it means that when we think"},{"speaker":"Annie Williams","startTime":2561.98,"endTime":2566.44,"body":"about this lifetime supply of"},{"speaker":"Annie Williams","startTime":2566.44,"endTime":2570.619,"body":"copper, it's much more"},{"speaker":"Annie Williams","startTime":2566.44,"endTime":2570.619,"body":"controllable in theirs."},{"speaker":"Annie Williams","startTime":2570.619,"endTime":2572.9,"body":"Whereas we might switch and say"},{"speaker":"Annie Williams","startTime":2572.9,"endTime":2575.42,"body":"we might have a calf on milk"},{"speaker":"Annie Williams","startTime":2575.42,"endTime":2577.519,"body":"replacer and starter, we might"},{"speaker":"Annie Williams","startTime":2577.519,"endTime":2579.039,"body":"wean them and say, oh, actually,"},{"speaker":"Annie Williams","startTime":2579.039,"endTime":2580.719,"body":"we're going to chuck these out"},{"speaker":"Annie Williams","startTime":2580.719,"endTime":2583.42,"body":"in some fields that are four"},{"speaker":"Annie Williams","startTime":2583.42,"endTime":2585.26,"body":"miles from the farm and they'll"},{"speaker":"Annie Williams","startTime":2585.26,"endTime":2586.619,"body":"be all right until they've grown"},{"speaker":"Annie Williams","startTime":2586.619,"endTime":2587.46,"body":"a bit."},{"speaker":"Annie Williams","startTime":2587.46,"endTime":2591.019,"body":"Then maybe we're going to bring"},{"speaker":"Annie Williams","startTime":2587.46,"endTime":2591.019,"body":"them back in for winter growth"},{"speaker":"Annie Williams","startTime":2591.019,"endTime":2593.219,"body":"rates, perhaps not quite where"},{"speaker":"Annie Williams","startTime":2591.019,"endTime":2593.219,"body":"we want them."},{"speaker":"Annie Williams","startTime":2593.219,"endTime":2596.46,"body":"So we're going to throw a load"},{"speaker":"Annie Williams","startTime":2593.219,"endTime":2596.46,"body":"of concentrate feed at them."},{"speaker":"Annie Williams","startTime":2596.46,"endTime":2597.82,"body":"Then maybe they'll go out again."},{"speaker":"Annie Williams","startTime":2597.82,"endTime":2598.98,"body":"And then maybe we're bringing"},{"speaker":"Annie Williams","startTime":2598.98,"endTime":2601.139,"body":"them into a fully housed dairy"},{"speaker":"Annie Williams","startTime":2601.139,"endTime":2602.099,"body":"system."},{"speaker":"Annie Williams","startTime":2602.099,"endTime":2605.82,"body":"Or we could be doing something"},{"speaker":"Annie Williams","startTime":2602.099,"endTime":2605.82,"body":"entirely different to that."},{"speaker":"Annie Williams","startTime":2605.82,"endTime":2608.26,"body":"So trying to track that supply"},{"speaker":"Annie Williams","startTime":2608.26,"endTime":2609.86,"body":"of copper through their life is"},{"speaker":"Annie Williams","startTime":2609.86,"endTime":2611.34,"body":"really difficult."},{"speaker":"Annie Williams","startTime":2611.34,"endTime":2616.239,"body":"Not so difficult in an American"},{"speaker":"Annie Williams","startTime":2611.34,"endTime":2616.239,"body":"system, which is probably why"},{"speaker":"Annie Williams","startTime":2616.239,"endTime":2620.219,"body":"they've been a little bit more"},{"speaker":"Annie Williams","startTime":2616.239,"endTime":2620.219,"body":"successful than we have in"},{"speaker":"Annie Williams","startTime":2620.219,"endTime":2622.219,"body":"reducing some of these excesses."},{"speaker":"Annie Williams","startTime":2622.219,"endTime":2623.34,"body":"Not saying they're still not"},{"speaker":"Annie Williams","startTime":2623.34,"endTime":2624.5,"body":"there because we definitely they"},{"speaker":"Annie Williams","startTime":2624.5,"endTime":2626.019,"body":"definitely are, but not to the"},{"speaker":"Annie Williams","startTime":2626.019,"endTime":2628.36,"body":"level I think that we see over"},{"speaker":"Annie Williams","startTime":2628.36,"endTime":2630.139,"body":"here and in New Zealand, we"},{"speaker":"Annie Williams","startTime":2630.139,"endTime":2631.34,"body":"would definitely see excesses"},{"speaker":"Annie Williams","startTime":2631.34,"endTime":2632.739,"body":"going into cattle in New Zealand"},{"speaker":"Annie Williams","startTime":2632.739,"endTime":2633.38,"body":"as well."},{"speaker":"Andrew Jones","startTime":2633.739,"endTime":2636.94,"body":"So Sarah mentioned testing feeds"},{"speaker":"Andrew Jones","startTime":2633.739,"endTime":2636.94,"body":"and forages."},{"speaker":"Andrew Jones","startTime":2636.94,"endTime":2640.78,"body":"Are there any feeds in"},{"speaker":"Andrew Jones","startTime":2636.94,"endTime":2640.78,"body":"particular that, um, people"},{"speaker":"Andrew Jones","startTime":2640.78,"endTime":2641.659,"body":"should be looking out for?"},{"speaker":"Andrew Jones","startTime":2641.659,"endTime":2646.26,"body":"Because what I'm thinking in my"},{"speaker":"Andrew Jones","startTime":2641.659,"endTime":2646.26,"body":"head is palm kernel extract."},{"speaker":"Andrew Jones","startTime":2646.26,"endTime":2648.139,"body":"And for some, I know there are"},{"speaker":"Andrew Jones","startTime":2648.139,"endTime":2649.82,"body":"some milk bars that are not"},{"speaker":"Andrew Jones","startTime":2649.82,"endTime":2651.739,"body":"happy or don't want you using"},{"speaker":"Andrew Jones","startTime":2651.739,"endTime":2652.699,"body":"that anymore."},{"speaker":"Andrew Jones","startTime":2652.699,"endTime":2658.559,"body":"But, um, for some portions of"},{"speaker":"Andrew Jones","startTime":2652.699,"endTime":2658.559,"body":"the industry, it's a very go to"},{"speaker":"Andrew Jones","startTime":2658.559,"endTime":2662.699,"body":"feed when they're short because"},{"speaker":"Andrew Jones","startTime":2658.559,"endTime":2662.699,"body":"it's easy to handle."},{"speaker":"Andrew Jones","startTime":2662.699,"endTime":2666.579,"body":"Uh, cows usually have relatively"},{"speaker":"Andrew Jones","startTime":2662.699,"endTime":2666.579,"body":"self-limiting on it."},{"speaker":"Andrew Jones","startTime":2666.579,"endTime":2670.659,"body":"Um, and it does have good"},{"speaker":"Andrew Jones","startTime":2666.579,"endTime":2670.659,"body":"energy, good protein."},{"speaker":"Andrew Jones","startTime":2670.659,"endTime":2674.739,"body":"Um, PK thoughts on that."},{"speaker":"Andrew Jones","startTime":2674.739,"endTime":2677.38,"body":"And, and well, I was going to"},{"speaker":"Andrew Jones","startTime":2674.739,"endTime":2677.38,"body":"say another, there are some feed"},{"speaker":"Andrew Jones","startTime":2677.38,"endTime":2679.82,"body":"merchants won't even stock it"},{"speaker":"Andrew Jones","startTime":2677.38,"endTime":2679.82,"body":"now because I know there's been"},{"speaker":"Andrew Jones","startTime":2679.82,"endTime":2682.42,"body":"problems, I think with foreign"},{"speaker":"Andrew Jones","startTime":2679.82,"endTime":2682.42,"body":"bodies in it that have caused"},{"speaker":"Andrew Jones","startTime":2682.42,"endTime":2683.739,"body":"death of cows."},{"speaker":"Andrew Jones","startTime":2683.739,"endTime":2686.699,"body":"But what, uh, that feed and any"},{"speaker":"Andrew Jones","startTime":2686.699,"endTime":2688.34,"body":"others that people should be"},{"speaker":"Andrew Jones","startTime":2688.34,"endTime":2690.32,"body":"wary of or look out for or go,"},{"speaker":"Andrew Jones","startTime":2690.32,"endTime":2693.73,"body":"um, you know, uh, I within the"},{"speaker":"Andrew Jones","startTime":2693.73,"endTime":2694.53,"body":"diets?"},{"speaker":"Annie Williams","startTime":2695.369,"endTime":2696.25,"body":"Yeah for sure."},{"speaker":"Annie Williams","startTime":2696.25,"endTime":2699.25,"body":"Palm kernel generally pretty"},{"speaker":"Annie Williams","startTime":2696.25,"endTime":2699.25,"body":"high in copper."},{"speaker":"Annie Williams","startTime":2699.25,"endTime":2701.67,"body":"Uh, generally twenty milligrams"},{"speaker":"Annie Williams","startTime":2701.67,"endTime":2703.469,"body":"per kilogram dry matter or"},{"speaker":"Annie Williams","startTime":2703.469,"endTime":2705.889,"body":"higher, which is a lot higher"},{"speaker":"Annie Williams","startTime":2705.889,"endTime":2707.25,"body":"than most feeds that we would"},{"speaker":"Annie Williams","startTime":2707.25,"endTime":2707.849,"body":"see."},{"speaker":"Annie Williams","startTime":2707.849,"endTime":2711.769,"body":"Legal limit in Europe being"},{"speaker":"Annie Williams","startTime":2707.849,"endTime":2711.769,"body":"thirty four milligrams per"},{"speaker":"Annie Williams","startTime":2711.769,"endTime":2713.13,"body":"kilogram dry matter."},{"speaker":"Annie Williams","startTime":2713.13,"endTime":2714.329,"body":"So you're already if you're"},{"speaker":"Annie Williams","startTime":2714.329,"endTime":2715.969,"body":"putting palm kernel in a diet,"},{"speaker":"Annie Williams","startTime":2715.969,"endTime":2717.369,"body":"you're already pretty high and"},{"speaker":"Annie Williams","startTime":2717.369,"endTime":2719.849,"body":"creeping close to that legal"},{"speaker":"Annie Williams","startTime":2719.849,"endTime":2720.17,"body":"limit."},{"speaker":"Annie Williams","startTime":2720.17,"endTime":2721.25,"body":"And when we're thinking about"},{"speaker":"Annie Williams","startTime":2721.25,"endTime":2722.57,"body":"formulating for cows, we're"},{"speaker":"Annie Williams","startTime":2722.57,"endTime":2724.01,"body":"thinking more around ten"},{"speaker":"Annie Williams","startTime":2724.01,"endTime":2725.829,"body":"milligrams per kilogram dry"},{"speaker":"Annie Williams","startTime":2725.829,"endTime":2726.21,"body":"matter."},{"speaker":"Annie Williams","startTime":2726.21,"endTime":2728.69,"body":"So yeah, definitely I would."},{"speaker":"Annie Williams","startTime":2728.69,"endTime":2731.53,"body":"It's not something that I would"},{"speaker":"Annie Williams","startTime":2728.69,"endTime":2731.53,"body":"go absolutely can't formulate a"},{"speaker":"Annie Williams","startTime":2731.53,"endTime":2734.65,"body":"diet with palm kernel in it"},{"speaker":"Annie Williams","startTime":2731.53,"endTime":2734.65,"body":"because we see it happening."},{"speaker":"Annie Williams","startTime":2734.65,"endTime":2736.25,"body":"We do it, but I would be wary of"},{"speaker":"Annie Williams","startTime":2736.25,"endTime":2737.929,"body":"it and be thinking about"},{"speaker":"Annie Williams","startTime":2737.929,"endTime":2739.61,"body":"adjusting the mineral that's"},{"speaker":"Annie Williams","startTime":2739.61,"endTime":2741.389,"body":"going into the diet based on"},{"speaker":"Annie Williams","startTime":2741.389,"endTime":2742.21,"body":"that."},{"speaker":"Annie Williams","startTime":2742.21,"endTime":2745.09,"body":"Definitely see it causing"},{"speaker":"Annie Williams","startTime":2742.21,"endTime":2745.09,"body":"problems in New Zealand,"},{"speaker":"Annie Williams","startTime":2745.09,"endTime":2747.61,"body":"particularly, you know, where"},{"speaker":"Annie Williams","startTime":2745.09,"endTime":2747.61,"body":"they've got drought conditions"},{"speaker":"Annie Williams","startTime":2747.61,"endTime":2751.28,"body":"and they suddenly go, oh, we've"},{"speaker":"Annie Williams","startTime":2747.61,"endTime":2751.28,"body":"got no grass."},{"speaker":"Annie Williams","startTime":2751.28,"endTime":2754.199,"body":"We're going to replace nearly"},{"speaker":"Annie Williams","startTime":2751.28,"endTime":2754.199,"body":"all of what they would have been"},{"speaker":"Annie Williams","startTime":2754.199,"endTime":2756.36,"body":"consuming that with palm kernel."},{"speaker":"Annie Williams","startTime":2756.36,"endTime":2758.48,"body":"We do see cows getting copper"},{"speaker":"Annie Williams","startTime":2758.48,"endTime":2761.94,"body":"toxicity that way and it causing"},{"speaker":"Annie Williams","startTime":2761.94,"endTime":2763.599,"body":"major problems."},{"speaker":"Annie Williams","startTime":2763.599,"endTime":2765.28,"body":"Tons of other ingredients."},{"speaker":"Annie Williams","startTime":2765.28,"endTime":2768.159,"body":"There are some ingredients where"},{"speaker":"Annie Williams","startTime":2765.28,"endTime":2768.159,"body":"we just don't have the analysis."},{"speaker":"Annie Williams","startTime":2768.159,"endTime":2769.36,"body":"A lot of those would be"},{"speaker":"Annie Williams","startTime":2769.36,"endTime":2771.96,"body":"byproducts, coproducts, whatever"},{"speaker":"Annie Williams","startTime":2771.96,"endTime":2773.88,"body":"we want to call them in that"},{"speaker":"Annie Williams","startTime":2773.88,"endTime":2774.88,"body":"category."},{"speaker":"Annie Williams","startTime":2774.88,"endTime":2776.719,"body":"Distillers, things like that."},{"speaker":"Annie Williams","startTime":2776.719,"endTime":2780.039,"body":"For those, if we're adding"},{"speaker":"Annie Williams","startTime":2776.719,"endTime":2780.039,"body":"significant amounts to diets, I"},{"speaker":"Annie Williams","startTime":2780.039,"endTime":2782.8,"body":"think worth testing to"},{"speaker":"Annie Williams","startTime":2780.039,"endTime":2782.8,"body":"understand what their what their"},{"speaker":"Annie Williams","startTime":2782.8,"endTime":2785.599,"body":"composition is and what might."},{"speaker":"Annie Williams","startTime":2785.599,"endTime":2788.84,"body":"If we're just adding a small"},{"speaker":"Annie Williams","startTime":2785.599,"endTime":2788.84,"body":"amount, then we can have a bit"},{"speaker":"Annie Williams","startTime":2788.84,"endTime":2789.8,"body":"of a guess."},{"speaker":"Annie Williams","startTime":2789.8,"endTime":2793.84,"body":"We can go, okay, this is we're"},{"speaker":"Annie Williams","startTime":2789.8,"endTime":2793.84,"body":"only adding a few kilos of this."},{"speaker":"Annie Williams","startTime":2793.84,"endTime":2797.4,"body":"So what do we think its"},{"speaker":"Annie Williams","startTime":2793.84,"endTime":2797.4,"body":"composition might be?"},{"speaker":"Annie Williams","startTime":2797.4,"endTime":2799.199,"body":"Is it going to throw out the"},{"speaker":"Annie Williams","startTime":2799.199,"endTime":2800.639,"body":"mineral in this diet"},{"speaker":"Annie Williams","startTime":2800.639,"endTime":2801.84,"body":"significantly?"},{"speaker":"Annie Williams","startTime":2801.84,"endTime":2803.159,"body":"It's weighing up, isn't it?"},{"speaker":"Annie Williams","startTime":2803.159,"endTime":2805.32,"body":"The cost of having it analyzed"},{"speaker":"Annie Williams","startTime":2805.32,"endTime":2808.179,"body":"versus what we might gain in"},{"speaker":"Annie Williams","startTime":2808.179,"endTime":2809.199,"body":"that process."},{"speaker":"Andrew Jones","startTime":2809.519,"endTime":2811.199,"body":"Any mentioned byproducts"},{"speaker":"Andrew Jones","startTime":2811.199,"endTime":2812.239,"body":"coproducts however you want to"},{"speaker":"Andrew Jones","startTime":2812.239,"endTime":2813.199,"body":"throw in, they've got nothing"},{"speaker":"Andrew Jones","startTime":2813.199,"endTime":2813.679,"body":"against them."},{"speaker":"Andrew Jones","startTime":2813.679,"endTime":2814.639,"body":"They're great products."},{"speaker":"Andrew Jones","startTime":2814.639,"endTime":2816.0,"body":"But I suppose the thing is they"},{"speaker":"Andrew Jones","startTime":2816.0,"endTime":2817.079,"body":"can be a little bit more"},{"speaker":"Andrew Jones","startTime":2817.079,"endTime":2819.26,"body":"variable sometimes in terms of"},{"speaker":"Andrew Jones","startTime":2819.26,"endTime":2821.599,"body":"their presentability."},{"speaker":"Andrew Jones","startTime":2821.599,"endTime":2823.32,"body":"Is that the right word to use in"},{"speaker":"Andrew Jones","startTime":2823.32,"endTime":2824.699,"body":"particular in terms of, say, dry"},{"speaker":"Andrew Jones","startTime":2824.699,"endTime":2825.159,"body":"matters?"},{"speaker":"Andrew Jones","startTime":2825.159,"endTime":2827.039,"body":"They can vary sometimes compared"},{"speaker":"Andrew Jones","startTime":2827.039,"endTime":2828.699,"body":"to some of the more we say,"},{"speaker":"Andrew Jones","startTime":2828.699,"endTime":2830.28,"body":"traditional dry products where,"},{"speaker":"Andrew Jones","startTime":2830.28,"endTime":2831.3,"body":"you know, they're going to be"},{"speaker":"Andrew Jones","startTime":2831.3,"endTime":2832.659,"body":"that eighty eight percent dry"},{"speaker":"Andrew Jones","startTime":2832.659,"endTime":2834.559,"body":"matter for argument's sake, they"},{"speaker":"Andrew Jones","startTime":2834.559,"endTime":2835.159,"body":"can vary."},{"speaker":"Andrew Jones","startTime":2835.159,"endTime":2838.159,"body":"And I suppose that's the"},{"speaker":"Andrew Jones","startTime":2835.159,"endTime":2838.159,"body":"variation that you're talking"},{"speaker":"Andrew Jones","startTime":2838.159,"endTime":2839.199,"body":"about, isn't it?"},{"speaker":"Annie Williams","startTime":2839.639,"endTime":2840.44,"body":"Yeah, yeah."},{"speaker":"Annie Williams","startTime":2840.44,"endTime":2844.039,"body":"So yeah, they'll vary in their"},{"speaker":"Annie Williams","startTime":2840.44,"endTime":2844.039,"body":"nutritional composition in"},{"speaker":"Annie Williams","startTime":2844.039,"endTime":2848.48,"body":"general, including in minerals,"},{"speaker":"Annie Williams","startTime":2844.039,"endTime":2848.48,"body":"depending on what process"},{"speaker":"Annie Williams","startTime":2848.48,"endTime":2851.44,"body":"they've been through, what have"},{"speaker":"Annie Williams","startTime":2848.48,"endTime":2851.44,"body":"they come into contact with."},{"speaker":"Annie Williams","startTime":2851.44,"endTime":2853.32,"body":"All those things can can affect"},{"speaker":"Annie Williams","startTime":2853.32,"endTime":2854.92,"body":"what actually ends up in the"},{"speaker":"Annie Williams","startTime":2854.92,"endTime":2855.599,"body":"diet."},{"speaker":"Andrew Jones","startTime":2856.84,"endTime":2859.599,"body":"So we've sort of tried to sort"},{"speaker":"Andrew Jones","startTime":2856.84,"endTime":2859.599,"body":"of lay the base here."},{"speaker":"Andrew Jones","startTime":2859.599,"endTime":2862.96,"body":"You mentioned there briefly,"},{"speaker":"Andrew Jones","startTime":2859.599,"endTime":2862.96,"body":"what are the legal limits for"},{"speaker":"Andrew Jones","startTime":2862.96,"endTime":2867.119,"body":"copper in you said Europe, but I"},{"speaker":"Andrew Jones","startTime":2862.96,"endTime":2867.119,"body":"guess the same in UK, but UK and"},{"speaker":"Andrew Jones","startTime":2867.119,"endTime":2869.079,"body":"Europe, What are those?"},{"speaker":"Andrew Jones","startTime":2869.079,"endTime":2869.559,"body":"What are they?"},{"speaker":"Andrew Jones","startTime":2869.559,"endTime":2871.079,"body":"Elsewhere, if you know."},{"speaker":"Andrew Jones","startTime":2871.079,"endTime":2874.4,"body":"Um, but what should we be aiming"},{"speaker":"Andrew Jones","startTime":2871.079,"endTime":2874.4,"body":"for?"},{"speaker":"Andrew Jones","startTime":2874.4,"endTime":2879.639,"body":"For the overall balance of our"},{"speaker":"Andrew Jones","startTime":2874.4,"endTime":2879.639,"body":"diet as what is currently"},{"speaker":"Andrew Jones","startTime":2879.639,"endTime":2881.48,"body":"perceived to be the right level."},{"speaker":"Annie Williams","startTime":2882.8,"endTime":2887.86,"body":"Yeah. So legal absolute maximum"},{"speaker":"Annie Williams","startTime":2882.8,"endTime":2887.86,"body":"permitted level would be thirty"},{"speaker":"Annie Williams","startTime":2887.86,"endTime":2890.32,"body":"four and would be similar."},{"speaker":"Andrew Jones","startTime":2890.159,"endTime":2891.32,"body":"It's actually sorry."},{"speaker":"Annie Williams","startTime":2891.159,"endTime":2895.719,"body":"thirty four milligrams per"},{"speaker":"Annie Williams","startTime":2891.159,"endTime":2895.719,"body":"kilogram dry matter."},{"speaker":"Andrew Jones","startTime":2895.559,"endTime":2896.4,"body":"Matter right."},{"speaker":"Andrew Jones","startTime":2896.4,"endTime":2896.92,"body":"Yeah."},{"speaker":"Annie Williams","startTime":2896.84,"endTime":2899.76,"body":"Um and that would be similar"},{"speaker":"Annie Williams","startTime":2896.84,"endTime":2899.76,"body":"around the world."},{"speaker":"Annie Williams","startTime":2899.76,"endTime":2900.88,"body":"Unlike some of the other"},{"speaker":"Annie Williams","startTime":2900.88,"endTime":2902.4,"body":"minerals, we don't see huge"},{"speaker":"Annie Williams","startTime":2902.4,"endTime":2904.639,"body":"discrepancy in those legal"},{"speaker":"Annie Williams","startTime":2904.639,"endTime":2905.0,"body":"limits."},{"speaker":"Annie Williams","startTime":2905.0,"endTime":2906.119,"body":"For other minerals."},{"speaker":"Annie Williams","startTime":2906.119,"endTime":2909.079,"body":"We see more wide variation in"},{"speaker":"Annie Williams","startTime":2909.079,"endTime":2910.239,"body":"what's allowed what's not"},{"speaker":"Annie Williams","startTime":2910.239,"endTime":2911.28,"body":"allowed."},{"speaker":"Annie Williams","startTime":2911.28,"endTime":2915.82,"body":"Um, I guess when we're thinking"},{"speaker":"Annie Williams","startTime":2911.28,"endTime":2915.82,"body":"about what an animal actually"},{"speaker":"Annie Williams","startTime":2915.82,"endTime":2919.8,"body":"requires, that's where it gets a"},{"speaker":"Annie Williams","startTime":2915.82,"endTime":2919.8,"body":"little bit more complicated"},{"speaker":"Annie Williams","startTime":2919.8,"endTime":2923.28,"body":"because that's when we start to"},{"speaker":"Annie Williams","startTime":2919.8,"endTime":2923.28,"body":"take into account what system"},{"speaker":"Annie Williams","startTime":2923.28,"endTime":2924.199,"body":"are they in."},{"speaker":"Annie Williams","startTime":2924.199,"endTime":2927.15,"body":"What are, what point in that"},{"speaker":"Annie Williams","startTime":2924.199,"endTime":2927.15,"body":"production cycle."},{"speaker":"Annie Williams","startTime":2927.15,"endTime":2932.19,"body":"Are they in so for a milking"},{"speaker":"Annie Williams","startTime":2927.15,"endTime":2932.19,"body":"cow."},{"speaker":"Annie Williams","startTime":2932.19,"endTime":2934.349,"body":"I would be formulating somewhere"},{"speaker":"Annie Williams","startTime":2934.349,"endTime":2936.309,"body":"along the lines of eleven"},{"speaker":"Annie Williams","startTime":2936.309,"endTime":2938.289,"body":"milligrams per kilogram dry"},{"speaker":"Annie Williams","startTime":2938.289,"endTime":2940.67,"body":"matter, unless there's something"},{"speaker":"Annie Williams","startTime":2940.67,"endTime":2942.269,"body":"that tells me that I shouldn't"},{"speaker":"Annie Williams","startTime":2942.269,"endTime":2943.63,"body":"do that."},{"speaker":"Annie Williams","startTime":2943.63,"endTime":2945.71,"body":"That could be that I know, for"},{"speaker":"Annie Williams","startTime":2945.71,"endTime":2947.01,"body":"example, going back to what"},{"speaker":"Annie Williams","startTime":2947.01,"endTime":2948.989,"body":"Sarah said earlier, I've done"},{"speaker":"Annie Williams","startTime":2948.989,"endTime":2950.59,"body":"some liver biopsies and I know"},{"speaker":"Annie Williams","startTime":2950.59,"endTime":2952.389,"body":"these animals are really high,"},{"speaker":"Annie Williams","startTime":2952.389,"endTime":2954.07,"body":"and I'm trying to reduce the"},{"speaker":"Annie Williams","startTime":2954.07,"endTime":2955.71,"body":"amount of copper that's in the"},{"speaker":"Annie Williams","startTime":2955.71,"endTime":2956.469,"body":"liver."},{"speaker":"Annie Williams","startTime":2956.469,"endTime":2960.829,"body":"Or it could be that these are a"},{"speaker":"Annie Williams","startTime":2956.469,"endTime":2960.829,"body":"grazing group of animals."},{"speaker":"Annie Williams","startTime":2960.829,"endTime":2964.309,"body":"I've done an analysis and I know"},{"speaker":"Annie Williams","startTime":2960.829,"endTime":2964.309,"body":"there's, for example,"},{"speaker":"Annie Williams","startTime":2964.309,"endTime":2968.309,"body":"significant amounts of iron"},{"speaker":"Annie Williams","startTime":2964.309,"endTime":2968.309,"body":"within this diet, which means"},{"speaker":"Annie Williams","startTime":2968.309,"endTime":2970.75,"body":"that I should go higher."},{"speaker":"Annie Williams","startTime":2970.75,"endTime":2975.789,"body":"Now that's the value that I'd be"},{"speaker":"Annie Williams","startTime":2970.75,"endTime":2975.789,"body":"aiming for for a milking cow."},{"speaker":"Annie Williams","startTime":2975.789,"endTime":2977.429,"body":"And then we can apply that, that"},{"speaker":"Annie Williams","startTime":2977.429,"endTime":2980.469,"body":"same logic into dry cows, just"},{"speaker":"Annie Williams","startTime":2980.469,"endTime":2981.63,"body":"taking into account those"},{"speaker":"Annie Williams","startTime":2981.63,"endTime":2984.329,"body":"differences in dry matter intake"},{"speaker":"Annie Williams","startTime":2984.329,"endTime":2986.0,"body":"that I mentioned in terms of"},{"speaker":"Annie Williams","startTime":2986.0,"endTime":2988.579,"body":"that Nasm work, where it becomes"},{"speaker":"Annie Williams","startTime":2988.579,"endTime":2990.219,"body":"a little bit trickier is where"},{"speaker":"Annie Williams","startTime":2990.219,"endTime":2992.179,"body":"we start to go into younger"},{"speaker":"Annie Williams","startTime":2992.179,"endTime":2993.34,"body":"animals."},{"speaker":"Annie Williams","startTime":2993.34,"endTime":2997.019,"body":"That's where we probably lack"},{"speaker":"Annie Williams","startTime":2993.34,"endTime":2997.019,"body":"quite a lot of data."},{"speaker":"Annie Williams","startTime":2997.019,"endTime":3001.78,"body":"And I guess that's where a lot"},{"speaker":"Annie Williams","startTime":2997.019,"endTime":3001.78,"body":"of this work on excess copper is"},{"speaker":"Annie Williams","startTime":3001.78,"endTime":3003.42,"body":"going at the moment."},{"speaker":"Annie Williams","startTime":3003.42,"endTime":3004.699,"body":"So from the work that you"},{"speaker":"Annie Williams","startTime":3004.699,"endTime":3006.099,"body":"mentioned earlier, Andrew, in"},{"speaker":"Annie Williams","startTime":3006.099,"endTime":3008.619,"body":"terms of fifty percent of dairy"},{"speaker":"Annie Williams","startTime":3008.619,"endTime":3011.099,"body":"cows being over where we would"},{"speaker":"Annie Williams","startTime":3011.099,"endTime":3012.78,"body":"like to see them in terms of"},{"speaker":"Annie Williams","startTime":3012.78,"endTime":3014.639,"body":"liver, copper concentration,"},{"speaker":"Annie Williams","startTime":3014.639,"endTime":3015.92,"body":"what we're really trying to"},{"speaker":"Annie Williams","startTime":3015.92,"endTime":3018.179,"body":"understand now is why is that"},{"speaker":"Annie Williams","startTime":3018.179,"endTime":3018.94,"body":"happening?"},{"speaker":"Annie Williams","startTime":3018.94,"endTime":3022.139,"body":"Why are we seeing so many cows"},{"speaker":"Annie Williams","startTime":3018.94,"endTime":3022.139,"body":"that are so high?"},{"speaker":"Annie Williams","startTime":3022.139,"endTime":3024.599,"body":"Is it the way that milking cows"},{"speaker":"Annie Williams","startTime":3024.599,"endTime":3027.38,"body":"and dry cows are being fed, or"},{"speaker":"Annie Williams","startTime":3027.38,"endTime":3029.099,"body":"does this actually stem from the"},{"speaker":"Annie Williams","startTime":3029.099,"endTime":3030.179,"body":"way that we're feeding"},{"speaker":"Annie Williams","startTime":3030.179,"endTime":3032.739,"body":"youngstock and even preruminant"},{"speaker":"Annie Williams","startTime":3032.739,"endTime":3033.9,"body":"calves?"},{"speaker":"Annie Williams","startTime":3033.9,"endTime":3035.98,"body":"And then if it's from that, are"},{"speaker":"Annie Williams","startTime":3035.98,"endTime":3037.76,"body":"those preruminant calves high"},{"speaker":"Annie Williams","startTime":3037.76,"endTime":3039.5,"body":"because milking cows are high"},{"speaker":"Annie Williams","startTime":3039.5,"endTime":3041.42,"body":"and therefore they're being born"},{"speaker":"Annie Williams","startTime":3041.42,"endTime":3042.659,"body":"with a high liver copper"},{"speaker":"Annie Williams","startTime":3042.659,"endTime":3043.739,"body":"concentration?"},{"speaker":"Annie Williams","startTime":3043.739,"endTime":3046.82,"body":"or is it something in that?"},{"speaker":"Annie Williams","startTime":3046.82,"endTime":3049.579,"body":"And it's those, although I think"},{"speaker":"Annie Williams","startTime":3046.82,"endTime":3049.579,"body":"we're pretty confident."},{"speaker":"Annie Williams","startTime":3049.579,"endTime":3050.619,"body":"And in fact, I would say we're"},{"speaker":"Annie Williams","startTime":3050.619,"endTime":3052.699,"body":"very confident at knowing where"},{"speaker":"Annie Williams","startTime":3052.699,"endTime":3055.5,"body":"we should be formulating milking"},{"speaker":"Annie Williams","startTime":3055.5,"endTime":3057.9,"body":"cows, dry cows at where we're"},{"speaker":"Annie Williams","startTime":3057.9,"endTime":3060.44,"body":"less confident is understanding"},{"speaker":"Annie Williams","startTime":3060.44,"endTime":3063.239,"body":"where we should be formulating"},{"speaker":"Annie Williams","startTime":3063.239,"endTime":3065.539,"body":"for young stock and even less"},{"speaker":"Annie Williams","startTime":3065.539,"endTime":3067.34,"body":"confident understanding where we"},{"speaker":"Annie Williams","startTime":3067.34,"endTime":3070.019,"body":"should be formulating for a"},{"speaker":"Annie Williams","startTime":3070.019,"endTime":3072.78,"body":"preruminant calf."},{"speaker":"Annie Williams","startTime":3072.78,"endTime":3077.699,"body":"And that is because we don't"},{"speaker":"Annie Williams","startTime":3072.78,"endTime":3077.699,"body":"fully understand the mechanism"},{"speaker":"Annie Williams","startTime":3077.699,"endTime":3081.9,"body":"in which absorption is happening"},{"speaker":"Annie Williams","startTime":3077.699,"endTime":3081.9,"body":"in those animals."},{"speaker":"Annie Williams","startTime":3081.9,"endTime":3084.699,"body":"So when where we started right"},{"speaker":"Annie Williams","startTime":3084.699,"endTime":3085.98,"body":"at the start, in terms of"},{"speaker":"Annie Williams","startTime":3085.98,"endTime":3087.42,"body":"absorption of some of these"},{"speaker":"Annie Williams","startTime":3087.42,"endTime":3089.34,"body":"copper supplements, we're saying"},{"speaker":"Annie Williams","startTime":3089.34,"endTime":3090.82,"body":"that for most copper supplements"},{"speaker":"Annie Williams","startTime":3090.82,"endTime":3093.019,"body":"on the market or copper just"},{"speaker":"Annie Williams","startTime":3093.019,"endTime":3094.4,"body":"generally that's present"},{"speaker":"Annie Williams","startTime":3094.4,"endTime":3096.099,"body":"naturally in the diet for an"},{"speaker":"Annie Williams","startTime":3096.099,"endTime":3098.059,"body":"adult cattle, they're absorbing"},{"speaker":"Annie Williams","startTime":3098.059,"endTime":3099.739,"body":"less than ten percent of it,"},{"speaker":"Annie Williams","startTime":3099.739,"endTime":3102.86,"body":"let's say for a preruminant"},{"speaker":"Annie Williams","startTime":3102.86,"endTime":3103.659,"body":"calf."},{"speaker":"Annie Williams","startTime":3103.659,"endTime":3106.38,"body":"We know that they're absorbing"},{"speaker":"Annie Williams","startTime":3106.38,"endTime":3108.32,"body":"over sixty percent of it,"},{"speaker":"Annie Williams","startTime":3108.32,"endTime":3111.159,"body":"probably maybe even closer to"},{"speaker":"Annie Williams","startTime":3111.159,"endTime":3114.079,"body":"seventy or eighty percent of it"},{"speaker":"Annie Williams","startTime":3114.079,"endTime":3115.42,"body":"because they don't have a"},{"speaker":"Annie Williams","startTime":3115.42,"endTime":3116.94,"body":"functioning rumen."},{"speaker":"Annie Williams","startTime":3116.94,"endTime":3118.26,"body":"So we're putting that copper"},{"speaker":"Annie Williams","startTime":3118.26,"endTime":3120.539,"body":"essentially directly into the"},{"speaker":"Annie Williams","startTime":3120.539,"endTime":3121.82,"body":"abomasum."},{"speaker":"Annie Williams","startTime":3121.82,"endTime":3126.139,"body":"And I think it's there that we"},{"speaker":"Annie Williams","startTime":3121.82,"endTime":3126.139,"body":"really need to understand more"},{"speaker":"Annie Williams","startTime":3126.139,"endTime":3130.78,"body":"research in terms of how we"},{"speaker":"Annie Williams","startTime":3126.139,"endTime":3130.78,"body":"should be formulating."},{"speaker":"Annie Williams","startTime":3130.78,"endTime":3132.26,"body":"So the general guidance that's"},{"speaker":"Annie Williams","startTime":3132.26,"endTime":3133.619,"body":"out there at the moment would be"},{"speaker":"Annie Williams","startTime":3133.619,"endTime":3136.679,"body":"formulating at five milligrams"},{"speaker":"Annie Williams","startTime":3136.679,"endTime":3138.38,"body":"per kilogram, dry matter in milk"},{"speaker":"Annie Williams","startTime":3138.38,"endTime":3141.5,"body":"replacer, twelve milligrams per"},{"speaker":"Annie Williams","startTime":3141.5,"endTime":3143.82,"body":"kilogram, dry matter in starter"},{"speaker":"Annie Williams","startTime":3143.82,"endTime":3144.9,"body":"feed."},{"speaker":"Annie Williams","startTime":3144.9,"endTime":3148.699,"body":"But if we look at whole milk"},{"speaker":"Annie Williams","startTime":3144.9,"endTime":3148.699,"body":"that comes from a cow, we would"},{"speaker":"Annie Williams","startTime":3148.699,"endTime":3153.26,"body":"rarely see it over one milligram"},{"speaker":"Annie Williams","startTime":3148.699,"endTime":3153.26,"body":"per kilogram dry matter."},{"speaker":"Annie Williams","startTime":3153.26,"endTime":3156.34,"body":"So actually, what we're doing in"},{"speaker":"Annie Williams","startTime":3153.26,"endTime":3156.34,"body":"terms of whatever we want to"},{"speaker":"Annie Williams","startTime":3156.34,"endTime":3161.51,"body":"call these synthetic diets, man"},{"speaker":"Annie Williams","startTime":3156.34,"endTime":3161.51,"body":"made diets is quite different to"},{"speaker":"Annie Williams","startTime":3161.51,"endTime":3165.17,"body":"what actually occurs naturally."},{"speaker":"Annie Williams","startTime":3165.17,"endTime":3169.13,"body":"And in terms of this whole"},{"speaker":"Annie Williams","startTime":3165.17,"endTime":3169.13,"body":"excess copper story."},{"speaker":"Annie Williams","startTime":3169.13,"endTime":3170.13,"body":"I think that's the bit we're"},{"speaker":"Annie Williams","startTime":3170.13,"endTime":3172.01,"body":"really trying to unpick at the"},{"speaker":"Annie Williams","startTime":3172.01,"endTime":3172.849,"body":"moment."},{"speaker":"Annie Williams","startTime":3172.849,"endTime":3175.21,"body":"Have we got a problem through"},{"speaker":"Annie Williams","startTime":3172.849,"endTime":3175.21,"body":"this cycle?"},{"speaker":"Annie Williams","startTime":3175.21,"endTime":3177.269,"body":"Because calves are being born"},{"speaker":"Annie Williams","startTime":3177.269,"endTime":3179.59,"body":"with higher liver coppers, or"},{"speaker":"Annie Williams","startTime":3179.59,"endTime":3181.69,"body":"through the way that we produce"},{"speaker":"Annie Williams","startTime":3181.69,"endTime":3183.21,"body":"them through this milk replacer"},{"speaker":"Annie Williams","startTime":3183.21,"endTime":3184.409,"body":"starter feed."},{"speaker":"Annie Williams","startTime":3184.409,"endTime":3186.849,"body":"And we could come on to the fact"},{"speaker":"Annie Williams","startTime":3184.409,"endTime":3186.849,"body":"that we're feeding more and more"},{"speaker":"Annie Williams","startTime":3186.849,"endTime":3190.969,"body":"milk replacer, which I won't say"},{"speaker":"Annie Williams","startTime":3186.849,"endTime":3190.969,"body":"is a bad thing because people be"},{"speaker":"Annie Williams","startTime":3190.969,"endTime":3191.849,"body":"on my case."},{"speaker":"Annie Williams","startTime":3191.849,"endTime":3195.909,"body":"But are we considering it in"},{"speaker":"Annie Williams","startTime":3191.849,"endTime":3195.909,"body":"terms of its composition for"},{"speaker":"Annie Williams","startTime":3195.909,"endTime":3199.369,"body":"minerals, and how much mineral"},{"speaker":"Annie Williams","startTime":3195.909,"endTime":3199.369,"body":"we're actually putting into"},{"speaker":"Annie Williams","startTime":3199.369,"endTime":3203.389,"body":"these young animals, their"},{"speaker":"Annie Williams","startTime":3199.369,"endTime":3203.389,"body":"ability to absorb it, etc.,"},{"speaker":"Annie Williams","startTime":3203.389,"endTime":3206.21,"body":"etc.. So where I think we're"},{"speaker":"Annie Williams","startTime":3203.389,"endTime":3206.21,"body":"going to see development in"},{"speaker":"Annie Williams","startTime":3206.21,"endTime":3210.69,"body":"terms of formulation is really"},{"speaker":"Annie Williams","startTime":3206.21,"endTime":3210.69,"body":"in these ruminant animals and"},{"speaker":"Annie Williams","startTime":3210.69,"endTime":3214.05,"body":"really understanding how much"},{"speaker":"Annie Williams","startTime":3210.69,"endTime":3214.05,"body":"copper we should be putting into"},{"speaker":"Annie Williams","startTime":3214.05,"endTime":3217.789,"body":"those, which then hopefully"},{"speaker":"Annie Williams","startTime":3214.05,"endTime":3217.789,"body":"gives us a better picture to"},{"speaker":"Annie Williams","startTime":3217.789,"endTime":3221.88,"body":"formulate more accurately"},{"speaker":"Annie Williams","startTime":3217.789,"endTime":3221.88,"body":"through the animal's lifetime."},{"speaker":"Annie Williams","startTime":3221.88,"endTime":3223.679,"body":"That was a really long answer to"},{"speaker":"Annie Williams","startTime":3221.88,"endTime":3223.679,"body":"that question."},{"speaker":"Annie Williams","startTime":3223.679,"endTime":3224.36,"body":"Sorry."},{"speaker":"Andrew Jones","startTime":3224.559,"endTime":3225.519,"body":"No. That's fine."},{"speaker":"Andrew Jones","startTime":3225.519,"endTime":3226.48,"body":"It's what we're here for."},{"speaker":"Andrew Jones","startTime":3226.48,"endTime":3230.119,"body":"But if if you're saying that"},{"speaker":"Andrew Jones","startTime":3226.48,"endTime":3230.119,"body":"milk is naturally."},{"speaker":"Andrew Jones","startTime":3230.119,"endTime":3231.199,"body":"What round did you say?"},{"speaker":"Andrew Jones","startTime":3231.199,"endTime":3232.28,"body":"One milligram."},{"speaker":"Annie Williams","startTime":3232.48,"endTime":3233.639,"body":"That's. Yeah. Max."},{"speaker":"Andrew Jones","startTime":3233.44,"endTime":3236.559,"body":"Let's say Max is there are two"},{"speaker":"Andrew Jones","startTime":3233.44,"endTime":3236.559,"body":"questions."},{"speaker":"Andrew Jones","startTime":3236.559,"endTime":3239.4,"body":"Part one is there a variation"},{"speaker":"Andrew Jones","startTime":3236.559,"endTime":3239.4,"body":"depending on what the level is"},{"speaker":"Andrew Jones","startTime":3239.4,"endTime":3240.0,"body":"in the cab."},{"speaker":"Andrew Jones","startTime":3240.0,"endTime":3242.019,"body":"If you're saying the liver"},{"speaker":"Andrew Jones","startTime":3240.0,"endTime":3242.019,"body":"regulates it, I'm guessing"},{"speaker":"Andrew Jones","startTime":3242.019,"endTime":3245.0,"body":"unless it's massively excessive"},{"speaker":"Andrew Jones","startTime":3242.019,"endTime":3245.0,"body":"or massively low, it probably"},{"speaker":"Andrew Jones","startTime":3245.0,"endTime":3247.4,"body":"isn't a major variation."},{"speaker":"Andrew Jones","startTime":3247.4,"endTime":3253.079,"body":"But two, if it's one maximum,"},{"speaker":"Andrew Jones","startTime":3247.4,"endTime":3253.079,"body":"why are we feeding five?"},{"speaker":"Annie Williams","startTime":3253.88,"endTime":3255.219,"body":"I think that's a great question,"},{"speaker":"Annie Williams","startTime":3255.219,"endTime":3256.699,"body":"and I wish I knew the answer to"},{"speaker":"Annie Williams","startTime":3256.699,"endTime":3257.0,"body":"that."},{"speaker":"Annie Williams","startTime":3257.0,"endTime":3258.0,"body":"I don't know the answer."},{"speaker":"Annie Williams","startTime":3258.0,"endTime":3260.519,"body":"I don't know where five came"},{"speaker":"Annie Williams","startTime":3258.0,"endTime":3260.519,"body":"from."},{"speaker":"Andrew Jones","startTime":3261.0,"endTime":3262.719,"body":"So I'm guessing it's historical."},{"speaker":"Andrew Jones","startTime":3262.719,"endTime":3264.079,"body":"For whatever reason."},{"speaker":"Annie Williams","startTime":3264.559,"endTime":3266.46,"body":"It maybe it was before we knew"},{"speaker":"Annie Williams","startTime":3266.46,"endTime":3267.76,"body":"what whole milk was, I don't"},{"speaker":"Annie Williams","startTime":3267.76,"endTime":3268.239,"body":"know."},{"speaker":"Sarah Bolt","startTime":3269.28,"endTime":3272.719,"body":"The other thing is that perhaps"},{"speaker":"Sarah Bolt","startTime":3269.28,"endTime":3272.719,"body":"calves often don't go out until"},{"speaker":"Sarah Bolt","startTime":3272.719,"endTime":3276.28,"body":"the second season, and therefore"},{"speaker":"Sarah Bolt","startTime":3272.719,"endTime":3276.28,"body":"they're not on grass, so they're"},{"speaker":"Sarah Bolt","startTime":3276.28,"endTime":3279.96,"body":"probably not getting some of"},{"speaker":"Sarah Bolt","startTime":3276.28,"endTime":3279.96,"body":"those antagonistics of iron and"},{"speaker":"Sarah Bolt","startTime":3279.96,"endTime":3281.88,"body":"molybdenum as well."},{"speaker":"Sarah Bolt","startTime":3281.88,"endTime":3285.699,"body":"Whereas naturally they'd be out"},{"speaker":"Sarah Bolt","startTime":3281.88,"endTime":3285.699,"body":"grazing grass as well at that,"},{"speaker":"Sarah Bolt","startTime":3285.699,"endTime":3287.719,"body":"you know, right from the start."},{"speaker":"Sarah Bolt","startTime":3287.719,"endTime":3290.4,"body":"So that could, I guess, have an"},{"speaker":"Sarah Bolt","startTime":3287.719,"endTime":3290.4,"body":"impact as well."},{"speaker":"Annie Williams","startTime":3290.679,"endTime":3291.519,"body":"Yeah, absolutely."},{"speaker":"Annie Williams","startTime":3291.519,"endTime":3293.92,"body":"And I think it all what we are"},{"speaker":"Annie Williams","startTime":3293.92,"endTime":3295.119,"body":"really starting to put this"},{"speaker":"Annie Williams","startTime":3295.119,"endTime":3296.519,"body":"picture together now there's"},{"speaker":"Annie Williams","startTime":3296.519,"endTime":3298.0,"body":"some interesting work obviously"},{"speaker":"Annie Williams","startTime":3298.0,"endTime":3300.0,"body":"with the huge rise in dairy"},{"speaker":"Annie Williams","startTime":3300.0,"endTime":3301.119,"body":"beef."},{"speaker":"Annie Williams","startTime":3301.119,"endTime":3305.239,"body":"There's some interesting work"},{"speaker":"Annie Williams","startTime":3301.119,"endTime":3305.239,"body":"coming out of Steph Hansen's lab"},{"speaker":"Annie Williams","startTime":3305.239,"endTime":3306.519,"body":"in the US."},{"speaker":"Annie Williams","startTime":3306.519,"endTime":3309.159,"body":"Obviously primarily looking over"},{"speaker":"Annie Williams","startTime":3309.159,"endTime":3310.719,"body":"there at beef and feedlot"},{"speaker":"Annie Williams","startTime":3310.719,"endTime":3311.719,"body":"systems."},{"speaker":"Annie Williams","startTime":3311.719,"endTime":3313.28,"body":"And then they're trying to put"},{"speaker":"Annie Williams","startTime":3313.28,"endTime":3315.84,"body":"these dairy beef directly into"},{"speaker":"Annie Williams","startTime":3315.84,"endTime":3318.059,"body":"these feedlot systems almost,"},{"speaker":"Annie Williams","startTime":3318.059,"endTime":3319.36,"body":"you know, trying to do like for"},{"speaker":"Annie Williams","startTime":3319.36,"endTime":3321.5,"body":"like and understanding actually,"},{"speaker":"Annie Williams","startTime":3321.5,"endTime":3322.639,"body":"you know, why are these animals"},{"speaker":"Annie Williams","startTime":3322.639,"endTime":3324.88,"body":"not performing very well in this"},{"speaker":"Annie Williams","startTime":3324.88,"endTime":3325.559,"body":"system?"},{"speaker":"Annie Williams","startTime":3325.559,"endTime":3328.559,"body":"And she's been doing quite a lot"},{"speaker":"Annie Williams","startTime":3325.559,"endTime":3328.559,"body":"of work actually saying it's"},{"speaker":"Annie Williams","startTime":3328.559,"endTime":3331.559,"body":"because they're coming in with"},{"speaker":"Annie Williams","startTime":3328.559,"endTime":3331.559,"body":"quite a different mineral"},{"speaker":"Annie Williams","startTime":3331.559,"endTime":3336.559,"body":"profile to what a traditional"},{"speaker":"Annie Williams","startTime":3331.559,"endTime":3336.559,"body":"beef animal would enter that"},{"speaker":"Annie Williams","startTime":3336.559,"endTime":3339.8,"body":"feedlot system at because"},{"speaker":"Annie Williams","startTime":3336.559,"endTime":3339.8,"body":"they're coming from this dairy"},{"speaker":"Annie Williams","startTime":3339.8,"endTime":3342.159,"body":"system where they've had this"},{"speaker":"Annie Williams","startTime":3339.8,"endTime":3342.159,"body":"milk replacer, they've had"},{"speaker":"Annie Williams","startTime":3342.159,"endTime":3345.639,"body":"starter, but they're not,"},{"speaker":"Annie Williams","startTime":3342.159,"endTime":3345.639,"body":"although we think that we're"},{"speaker":"Annie Williams","startTime":3345.639,"endTime":3348.32,"body":"putting them in exactly the same"},{"speaker":"Annie Williams","startTime":3345.639,"endTime":3348.32,"body":"system, we're really not."},{"speaker":"Annie Williams","startTime":3348.32,"endTime":3349.96,"body":"And trying to understand the"},{"speaker":"Annie Williams","startTime":3349.96,"endTime":3351.739,"body":"impact that we're having on"},{"speaker":"Annie Williams","startTime":3351.739,"endTime":3353.36,"body":"those animals and what we can do"},{"speaker":"Annie Williams","startTime":3353.36,"endTime":3354.4,"body":"about it."},{"speaker":"Annie Williams","startTime":3354.4,"endTime":3358.38,"body":"Perhaps formulating lower when"},{"speaker":"Annie Williams","startTime":3354.4,"endTime":3358.38,"body":"they come into that system to"},{"speaker":"Annie Williams","startTime":3358.38,"endTime":3361.36,"body":"give them the opportunity to"},{"speaker":"Annie Williams","startTime":3358.38,"endTime":3361.36,"body":"mobilize some of that copper out"},{"speaker":"Annie Williams","startTime":3361.36,"endTime":3362.44,"body":"of the liver."},{"speaker":"Annie Williams","startTime":3362.44,"endTime":3365.48,"body":"And that would be the same for"},{"speaker":"Annie Williams","startTime":3362.44,"endTime":3365.48,"body":"some of the other minerals that"},{"speaker":"Annie Williams","startTime":3365.48,"endTime":3368.96,"body":"we're seeing as well, trying to"},{"speaker":"Annie Williams","startTime":3365.48,"endTime":3368.96,"body":"understand what impact we have"},{"speaker":"Annie Williams","startTime":3368.96,"endTime":3372.159,"body":"by putting things into milk"},{"speaker":"Annie Williams","startTime":3368.96,"endTime":3372.159,"body":"replacer into starter."},{"speaker":"Annie Williams","startTime":3372.159,"endTime":3375.84,"body":"And do we actually need to put"},{"speaker":"Annie Williams","startTime":3372.159,"endTime":3375.84,"body":"in as much as we put in?"},{"speaker":"Annie Williams","startTime":3375.84,"endTime":3379.059,"body":"What what impact are we having"},{"speaker":"Annie Williams","startTime":3375.84,"endTime":3379.059,"body":"on that animal's performance,"},{"speaker":"Annie Williams","startTime":3379.059,"endTime":3382.119,"body":"not just them, but as they go"},{"speaker":"Annie Williams","startTime":3379.059,"endTime":3382.119,"body":"forward through their life?"},{"speaker":"Andrew Jones","startTime":3383.32,"endTime":3385.84,"body":"I think you've probably really"},{"speaker":"Andrew Jones","startTime":3383.32,"endTime":3385.84,"body":"already answered this question,"},{"speaker":"Andrew Jones","startTime":3385.84,"endTime":3388.96,"body":"but if somebody is concerned"},{"speaker":"Andrew Jones","startTime":3385.84,"endTime":3388.96,"body":"that, well, as you say, it's"},{"speaker":"Andrew Jones","startTime":3388.96,"endTime":3393.36,"body":"difficult to know whether it's"},{"speaker":"Andrew Jones","startTime":3388.96,"endTime":3393.36,"body":"deficient or excessive, what"},{"speaker":"Andrew Jones","startTime":3393.36,"endTime":3397.71,"body":"should people do to ensure they"},{"speaker":"Andrew Jones","startTime":3393.36,"endTime":3397.71,"body":"have a full review or a correct"},{"speaker":"Andrew Jones","startTime":3397.71,"endTime":3399.389,"body":"review to ensure that they."},{"speaker":"Andrew Jones","startTime":3399.389,"endTime":3401.07,"body":"They know what actually is"},{"speaker":"Andrew Jones","startTime":3401.07,"endTime":3402.449,"body":"happening on their herds and on"},{"speaker":"Andrew Jones","startTime":3402.449,"endTime":3403.349,"body":"their farms."},{"speaker":"Annie Williams","startTime":3405.07,"endTime":3407.409,"body":"Absolute like Gold Star would be"},{"speaker":"Annie Williams","startTime":3407.409,"endTime":3409.349,"body":"what Sarah referred to earlier,"},{"speaker":"Annie Williams","startTime":3409.349,"endTime":3410.51,"body":"and it would be collecting that"},{"speaker":"Annie Williams","startTime":3410.51,"endTime":3411.67,"body":"liver data."},{"speaker":"Annie Williams","startTime":3411.67,"endTime":3412.55,"body":"Understanding."},{"speaker":"Annie Williams","startTime":3412.55,"endTime":3414.15,"body":"So taking a. And you don't have"},{"speaker":"Annie Williams","startTime":3414.15,"endTime":3415.829,"body":"to do many cows to have actually"},{"speaker":"Annie Williams","startTime":3415.829,"endTime":3417.269,"body":"a representation of what's"},{"speaker":"Annie Williams","startTime":3417.269,"endTime":3418.389,"body":"happening across the whole"},{"speaker":"Annie Williams","startTime":3418.389,"endTime":3419.51,"body":"group."},{"speaker":"Annie Williams","startTime":3419.51,"endTime":3423.389,"body":"That would be absolutely would"},{"speaker":"Annie Williams","startTime":3419.51,"endTime":3423.389,"body":"tell us where we're at in terms"},{"speaker":"Annie Williams","startTime":3423.389,"endTime":3428.389,"body":"of how much have copper have"},{"speaker":"Annie Williams","startTime":3423.389,"endTime":3428.389,"body":"these cows got in the liver."},{"speaker":"Annie Williams","startTime":3428.389,"endTime":3431.59,"body":"I understand that that's not an"},{"speaker":"Annie Williams","startTime":3428.389,"endTime":3431.59,"body":"option for everybody."},{"speaker":"Andrew Jones","startTime":3431.909,"endTime":3433.15,"body":"But what you're talking five"},{"speaker":"Andrew Jones","startTime":3433.15,"endTime":3435.829,"body":"percent, two percent in terms of"},{"speaker":"Andrew Jones","startTime":3435.829,"endTime":3436.63,"body":"numbers."},{"speaker":"Annie Williams","startTime":3436.469,"endTime":3440.429,"body":"So in terms of numbers, I would"},{"speaker":"Annie Williams","startTime":3436.469,"endTime":3440.429,"body":"say six cows within a management"},{"speaker":"Annie Williams","startTime":3440.429,"endTime":3442.11,"body":"group is representative."},{"speaker":"Annie Williams","startTime":3442.11,"endTime":3445.909,"body":"So if we're if we're managing"},{"speaker":"Annie Williams","startTime":3442.11,"endTime":3445.909,"body":"all cows the same across the"},{"speaker":"Annie Williams","startTime":3445.909,"endTime":3448.59,"body":"group, then we can do six"},{"speaker":"Annie Williams","startTime":3445.909,"endTime":3448.59,"body":"animals and have a really good"},{"speaker":"Annie Williams","startTime":3448.59,"endTime":3451.829,"body":"idea of what's going on across"},{"speaker":"Annie Williams","startTime":3448.59,"endTime":3451.829,"body":"all of them."},{"speaker":"Annie Williams","startTime":3453.469,"endTime":3456.07,"body":"So that would be absolute gold"},{"speaker":"Annie Williams","startTime":3453.469,"endTime":3456.07,"body":"standard."},{"speaker":"Annie Williams","startTime":3456.07,"endTime":3459.15,"body":"That would give us numbers, give"},{"speaker":"Annie Williams","startTime":3456.07,"endTime":3459.15,"body":"us data with scientists."},{"speaker":"Annie Williams","startTime":3459.15,"endTime":3460.429,"body":"We love that."},{"speaker":"Annie Williams","startTime":3460.429,"endTime":3462.949,"body":"That gives us something to go"},{"speaker":"Annie Williams","startTime":3460.429,"endTime":3462.949,"body":"off."},{"speaker":"Annie Williams","startTime":3462.949,"endTime":3463.909,"body":"If we can't do that."},{"speaker":"Annie Williams","startTime":3463.909,"endTime":3465.63,"body":"If that's not an option, then"},{"speaker":"Annie Williams","startTime":3465.63,"endTime":3467.869,"body":"looking at Coco data can be an"},{"speaker":"Annie Williams","startTime":3467.869,"endTime":3468.55,"body":"option."},{"speaker":"Annie Williams","startTime":3468.55,"endTime":3472.03,"body":"So speaking to the abattoir very"},{"speaker":"Annie Williams","startTime":3468.55,"endTime":3472.03,"body":"nicely, when you've got cool"},{"speaker":"Annie Williams","startTime":3472.03,"endTime":3476.03,"body":"cows going and trying to get"},{"speaker":"Annie Williams","startTime":3472.03,"endTime":3476.03,"body":"liver data that way can work,"},{"speaker":"Annie Williams","startTime":3476.03,"endTime":3480.71,"body":"the next best thing is to go"},{"speaker":"Annie Williams","startTime":3476.03,"endTime":3480.71,"body":"through this process of of an"},{"speaker":"Annie Williams","startTime":3480.71,"endTime":3483.19,"body":"audit, you know, really going"},{"speaker":"Annie Williams","startTime":3480.71,"endTime":3483.19,"body":"through the system."},{"speaker":"Annie Williams","startTime":3483.19,"endTime":3484.03,"body":"What am I feeding?"},{"speaker":"Annie Williams","startTime":3484.03,"endTime":3486.23,"body":"What's my water, what's my"},{"speaker":"Annie Williams","startTime":3484.03,"endTime":3486.23,"body":"forage?"},{"speaker":"Annie Williams","startTime":3486.23,"endTime":3489.51,"body":"What system have these animals"},{"speaker":"Annie Williams","startTime":3486.23,"endTime":3489.51,"body":"come through?"},{"speaker":"Annie Williams","startTime":3489.51,"endTime":3491.349,"body":"Did they, like Sarah said, did"},{"speaker":"Annie Williams","startTime":3491.349,"endTime":3493.15,"body":"they get starter in their first"},{"speaker":"Annie Williams","startTime":3493.15,"endTime":3494.349,"body":"year concentrate."},{"speaker":"Annie Williams","startTime":3494.349,"endTime":3495.869,"body":"And then they got turned out."},{"speaker":"Annie Williams","startTime":3495.869,"endTime":3497.59,"body":"Have they been housed their"},{"speaker":"Annie Williams","startTime":3495.869,"endTime":3497.59,"body":"whole life?"},{"speaker":"Annie Williams","startTime":3497.59,"endTime":3500.71,"body":"We can start to model some of"},{"speaker":"Annie Williams","startTime":3497.59,"endTime":3500.71,"body":"those effects about where we"},{"speaker":"Annie Williams","startTime":3500.71,"endTime":3502.59,"body":"think that they could be."},{"speaker":"Annie Williams","startTime":3502.59,"endTime":3506.11,"body":"So kind of two options,"},{"speaker":"Annie Williams","startTime":3502.59,"endTime":3506.11,"body":"obviously ideal if we can do"},{"speaker":"Annie Williams","startTime":3506.11,"endTime":3510.469,"body":"both, but that that liver data"},{"speaker":"Annie Williams","startTime":3506.11,"endTime":3510.469,"body":"can really give us a really good"},{"speaker":"Annie Williams","startTime":3510.469,"endTime":3513.659,"body":"example of what's going on"},{"speaker":"Annie Williams","startTime":3510.469,"endTime":3513.659,"body":"across that whole group."},{"speaker":"Andrew Jones","startTime":3514.579,"endTime":3517.82,"body":"And again, I guess something I"},{"speaker":"Andrew Jones","startTime":3514.579,"endTime":3517.82,"body":"want to say in terms, like you"},{"speaker":"Andrew Jones","startTime":3517.82,"endTime":3518.699,"body":"mentioned, water there."},{"speaker":"Andrew Jones","startTime":3518.699,"endTime":3520.34,"body":"Whenever I've done Minerals on"},{"speaker":"Andrew Jones","startTime":3520.34,"endTime":3521.659,"body":"Farm, that's the one thing I"},{"speaker":"Andrew Jones","startTime":3521.659,"endTime":3523.099,"body":"find repeatedly."},{"speaker":"Andrew Jones","startTime":3523.099,"endTime":3523.98,"body":"And I've said it with"},{"speaker":"Andrew Jones","startTime":3523.98,"endTime":3525.139,"body":"transition, but it's the one"},{"speaker":"Andrew Jones","startTime":3525.139,"endTime":3526.36,"body":"thing people seem to forget is"},{"speaker":"Andrew Jones","startTime":3526.36,"endTime":3527.179,"body":"their water."},{"speaker":"Andrew Jones","startTime":3527.179,"endTime":3528.539,"body":"And yet it's probably the"},{"speaker":"Andrew Jones","startTime":3528.539,"endTime":3530.099,"body":"biggest intake those cows are"},{"speaker":"Andrew Jones","startTime":3530.099,"endTime":3530.78,"body":"having."},{"speaker":"Andrew Jones","startTime":3530.78,"endTime":3533.42,"body":"Um, and it can have quite an"},{"speaker":"Andrew Jones","startTime":3530.78,"endTime":3533.42,"body":"effect."},{"speaker":"Annie Williams","startTime":3534.619,"endTime":3537.239,"body":"Yeah. It can have a huge effect,"},{"speaker":"Annie Williams","startTime":3534.619,"endTime":3537.239,"body":"especially when you consider,"},{"speaker":"Annie Williams","startTime":3537.239,"endTime":3539.019,"body":"you know, when we're talking"},{"speaker":"Annie Williams","startTime":3537.239,"endTime":3539.019,"body":"about this and we're talking"},{"speaker":"Annie Williams","startTime":3539.019,"endTime":3542.5,"body":"about milk replacer, you're also"},{"speaker":"Annie Williams","startTime":3539.019,"endTime":3542.5,"body":"mixing it with quite a lot of"},{"speaker":"Annie Williams","startTime":3542.5,"endTime":3544.5,"body":"water in that process."},{"speaker":"Andrew Jones","startTime":3545.34,"endTime":3546.139,"body":"Yeah, definitely."},{"speaker":"Andrew Jones","startTime":3546.139,"endTime":3546.539,"body":"Definitely."},{"speaker":"Andrew Jones","startTime":3546.539,"endTime":3548.3,"body":"Now a little bit out of field"},{"speaker":"Andrew Jones","startTime":3548.3,"endTime":3550.659,"body":"maybe, but what about um foot"},{"speaker":"Andrew Jones","startTime":3550.659,"endTime":3552.199,"body":"baths and using copper and foot"},{"speaker":"Andrew Jones","startTime":3552.199,"endTime":3552.539,"body":"baths?"},{"speaker":"Andrew Jones","startTime":3552.539,"endTime":3555.179,"body":"Is that, can that have an effect"},{"speaker":"Andrew Jones","startTime":3552.539,"endTime":3555.179,"body":"in any way that maybe people"},{"speaker":"Andrew Jones","startTime":3555.179,"endTime":3556.179,"body":"haven't thought about?"},{"speaker":"Andrew Jones","startTime":3556.179,"endTime":3558.86,"body":"I'm not saying cows are going to"},{"speaker":"Andrew Jones","startTime":3556.179,"endTime":3558.86,"body":"go drink it, God forbid."},{"speaker":"Andrew Jones","startTime":3558.86,"endTime":3562.42,"body":"But you know, I mean, it's the"},{"speaker":"Andrew Jones","startTime":3558.86,"endTime":3562.42,"body":"fact is it's still bringing more"},{"speaker":"Andrew Jones","startTime":3562.42,"endTime":3564.659,"body":"copper into the environment."},{"speaker":"Andrew Jones","startTime":3564.659,"endTime":3569.34,"body":"Um, is that something people"},{"speaker":"Andrew Jones","startTime":3564.659,"endTime":3569.34,"body":"need to be aware of in any way?"},{"speaker":"Annie Williams","startTime":3570.019,"endTime":3570.969,"body":"I don't think so."},{"speaker":"Annie Williams","startTime":3570.969,"endTime":3574.11,"body":"I don't think we've got any data"},{"speaker":"Annie Williams","startTime":3570.969,"endTime":3574.11,"body":"to suggest that that would be"},{"speaker":"Annie Williams","startTime":3574.11,"endTime":3576.21,"body":"having a big impact."},{"speaker":"Annie Williams","startTime":3576.21,"endTime":3579.75,"body":"Obviously, it probably depends"},{"speaker":"Annie Williams","startTime":3576.21,"endTime":3579.75,"body":"on assuming that you've got your"},{"speaker":"Annie Williams","startTime":3579.75,"endTime":3584.13,"body":"foot bath well away from any"},{"speaker":"Annie Williams","startTime":3579.75,"endTime":3584.13,"body":"feed so that it's not getting"},{"speaker":"Annie Williams","startTime":3584.13,"endTime":3586.929,"body":"splashed and contaminated, then."},{"speaker":"Annie Williams","startTime":3586.929,"endTime":3588.61,"body":"No, I don't think that we can"},{"speaker":"Annie Williams","startTime":3588.61,"endTime":3590.65,"body":"suggest that it would drive any"},{"speaker":"Annie Williams","startTime":3590.65,"endTime":3592.13,"body":"impact in terms of their copper"},{"speaker":"Annie Williams","startTime":3592.13,"endTime":3592.929,"body":"status."},{"speaker":"Sarah Bolt","startTime":3593.61,"endTime":3596.289,"body":"I mean, I guess it could end up"},{"speaker":"Sarah Bolt","startTime":3593.61,"endTime":3596.289,"body":"in the slurry pit, which then"},{"speaker":"Sarah Bolt","startTime":3596.289,"endTime":3599.53,"body":"could end up out on the field,"},{"speaker":"Sarah Bolt","startTime":3596.289,"endTime":3599.53,"body":"which could then end up in the"},{"speaker":"Sarah Bolt","startTime":3599.53,"endTime":3604.09,"body":"forage, etc.. But I guess it's"},{"speaker":"Sarah Bolt","startTime":3599.53,"endTime":3604.09,"body":"when you go through all of those"},{"speaker":"Sarah Bolt","startTime":3604.09,"endTime":3608.73,"body":"processes, it's it's not a huge"},{"speaker":"Sarah Bolt","startTime":3604.09,"endTime":3608.73,"body":"amount to be concerned about."},{"speaker":"Andrew Jones","startTime":3608.57,"endTime":3611.25,"body":"More indirect than direct"},{"speaker":"Andrew Jones","startTime":3608.57,"endTime":3611.25,"body":"effect."},{"speaker":"Sarah Bolt","startTime":3611.05,"endTime":3617.65,"body":"Maybe you've talked about some"},{"speaker":"Sarah Bolt","startTime":3611.05,"endTime":3617.65,"body":"of the unknowns there that we"},{"speaker":"Sarah Bolt","startTime":3617.65,"endTime":3619.57,"body":"perhaps need some more research."},{"speaker":"Sarah Bolt","startTime":3619.57,"endTime":3621.369,"body":"Is there any research currently"},{"speaker":"Sarah Bolt","startTime":3621.369,"endTime":3622.969,"body":"going on in the UK or around the"},{"speaker":"Sarah Bolt","startTime":3622.969,"endTime":3624.13,"body":"world that we should be aware"},{"speaker":"Sarah Bolt","startTime":3624.13,"endTime":3625.73,"body":"of, that we need to keep our"},{"speaker":"Sarah Bolt","startTime":3625.73,"endTime":3627.17,"body":"eyes and ears open for for the"},{"speaker":"Sarah Bolt","startTime":3627.17,"endTime":3627.969,"body":"future."},{"speaker":"Annie Williams","startTime":3628.809,"endTime":3631.809,"body":"Yeah. So I think there's lots of"},{"speaker":"Annie Williams","startTime":3628.809,"endTime":3631.809,"body":"research going on in this area"},{"speaker":"Annie Williams","startTime":3631.809,"endTime":3634.769,"body":"at the moment, both in the US"},{"speaker":"Annie Williams","startTime":3631.809,"endTime":3634.769,"body":"and in the UK."},{"speaker":"Annie Williams","startTime":3634.769,"endTime":3638.25,"body":"I mentioned that Steph Hansen's"},{"speaker":"Annie Williams","startTime":3634.769,"endTime":3638.25,"body":"lab in the US are doing quite a"},{"speaker":"Annie Williams","startTime":3638.25,"endTime":3640.53,"body":"lot of research in this area."},{"speaker":"Annie Williams","startTime":3640.53,"endTime":3643.329,"body":"Also Harper Adams over in the"},{"speaker":"Annie Williams","startTime":3640.53,"endTime":3643.329,"body":"UK."},{"speaker":"Annie Williams","startTime":3643.329,"endTime":3645.57,"body":"So I try even though I work in"},{"speaker":"Annie Williams","startTime":3645.57,"endTime":3647.329,"body":"consultancy role now, try and"},{"speaker":"Annie Williams","startTime":3647.329,"endTime":3649.849,"body":"stay as involved in research as"},{"speaker":"Annie Williams","startTime":3649.849,"endTime":3650.969,"body":"I can."},{"speaker":"Annie Williams","startTime":3650.969,"endTime":3652.989,"body":"There's a PhD student called Amy"},{"speaker":"Annie Williams","startTime":3652.989,"endTime":3655.61,"body":"Marsh at Harper Adams, whose"},{"speaker":"Annie Williams","startTime":3655.61,"endTime":3657.23,"body":"project is really trying to"},{"speaker":"Annie Williams","startTime":3657.23,"endTime":3659.329,"body":"unpick some of these unknowns"},{"speaker":"Annie Williams","startTime":3659.329,"endTime":3661.73,"body":"that we've got in absorption of"},{"speaker":"Annie Williams","startTime":3661.73,"endTime":3663.05,"body":"copper in young stock,"},{"speaker":"Annie Williams","startTime":3663.05,"endTime":3664.25,"body":"particularly in these"},{"speaker":"Annie Williams","startTime":3664.25,"endTime":3666.09,"body":"preruminant calves."},{"speaker":"Annie Williams","startTime":3666.09,"endTime":3670.21,"body":"We've got some work that is UK"},{"speaker":"Annie Williams","startTime":3666.09,"endTime":3670.21,"body":"only at the moment, probably"},{"speaker":"Annie Williams","startTime":3670.21,"endTime":3673.849,"body":"with some ambition to make it"},{"speaker":"Annie Williams","startTime":3670.21,"endTime":3673.849,"body":"global in the future."},{"speaker":"Annie Williams","startTime":3673.849,"endTime":3676.929,"body":"That is looking and it's pretty"},{"speaker":"Annie Williams","startTime":3673.849,"endTime":3676.929,"body":"basic survey work."},{"speaker":"Annie Williams","startTime":3676.929,"endTime":3679.289,"body":"I mean, I won't say it's basic"},{"speaker":"Annie Williams","startTime":3676.929,"endTime":3679.289,"body":"because Amy's got to go and pick"},{"speaker":"Annie Williams","startTime":3679.289,"endTime":3682.889,"body":"it all statistically, but it's"},{"speaker":"Annie Williams","startTime":3679.289,"endTime":3682.889,"body":"looking at starter milk"},{"speaker":"Annie Williams","startTime":3682.889,"endTime":3685.69,"body":"replacer, how calves are"},{"speaker":"Annie Williams","startTime":3682.889,"endTime":3685.69,"body":"produced on farm."},{"speaker":"Annie Williams","startTime":3685.69,"endTime":3688.329,"body":"And it's essentially survey data"},{"speaker":"Annie Williams","startTime":3688.329,"endTime":3690.409,"body":"so interested in it is specific"},{"speaker":"Annie Williams","startTime":3690.409,"endTime":3692.65,"body":"to dairy at the moment, but if"},{"speaker":"Annie Williams","startTime":3692.65,"endTime":3694.03,"body":"people want to get involved in"},{"speaker":"Annie Williams","startTime":3694.03,"endTime":3695.19,"body":"that, if they're willing to"},{"speaker":"Annie Williams","startTime":3695.19,"endTime":3697.73,"body":"supply survey data and have"},{"speaker":"Annie Williams","startTime":3697.73,"endTime":3699.369,"body":"their milk replacer and starter"},{"speaker":"Annie Williams","startTime":3699.369,"endTime":3701.809,"body":"feed sampled for its copper"},{"speaker":"Annie Williams","startTime":3701.809,"endTime":3703.369,"body":"content, which is all done in"},{"speaker":"Annie Williams","startTime":3703.369,"endTime":3705.25,"body":"the lab at Harper Adams, do get"},{"speaker":"Annie Williams","startTime":3705.25,"endTime":3705.929,"body":"in contact."},{"speaker":"Annie Williams","startTime":3705.929,"endTime":3709.269,"body":"We'd love to have as many farms"},{"speaker":"Annie Williams","startTime":3705.929,"endTime":3709.269,"body":"as possible on that trial to"},{"speaker":"Annie Williams","startTime":3709.269,"endTime":3712.73,"body":"make that hopefully a really"},{"speaker":"Annie Williams","startTime":3709.269,"endTime":3712.73,"body":"strong result for the industry."},{"speaker":"Annie Williams","startTime":3712.73,"endTime":3714.289,"body":"The aim being that we come out"},{"speaker":"Annie Williams","startTime":3714.289,"endTime":3716.59,"body":"and we say, instead of saying"},{"speaker":"Annie Williams","startTime":3716.59,"endTime":3717.849,"body":"what I said before, which is"},{"speaker":"Annie Williams","startTime":3717.849,"endTime":3719.61,"body":"milk replacer is five and"},{"speaker":"Annie Williams","startTime":3719.61,"endTime":3721.15,"body":"starter feed is twelve, that we"},{"speaker":"Annie Williams","startTime":3721.15,"endTime":3722.329,"body":"come out and say, no milk"},{"speaker":"Annie Williams","startTime":3722.329,"endTime":3724.69,"body":"replacer should be this number"},{"speaker":"Annie Williams","startTime":3724.69,"endTime":3726.809,"body":"and starter feed should be this"},{"speaker":"Annie Williams","startTime":3726.809,"endTime":3727.369,"body":"number."},{"speaker":"Annie Williams","startTime":3727.369,"endTime":3730.289,"body":"That would be the aim of that"},{"speaker":"Annie Williams","startTime":3727.369,"endTime":3730.289,"body":"research if we can get there."},{"speaker":"Andrew Jones","startTime":3730.849,"endTime":3733.01,"body":"Um, you mentioned there dairy"},{"speaker":"Andrew Jones","startTime":3730.849,"endTime":3733.01,"body":"and I guess it's something we"},{"speaker":"Andrew Jones","startTime":3733.01,"endTime":3733.929,"body":"haven't really talked about."},{"speaker":"Andrew Jones","startTime":3733.929,"endTime":3735.53,"body":"I'm guessing it's probably not"},{"speaker":"Andrew Jones","startTime":3735.53,"endTime":3737.849,"body":"massively different maybe than"},{"speaker":"Andrew Jones","startTime":3737.849,"endTime":3739.329,"body":"some what you'd feed young stock"},{"speaker":"Andrew Jones","startTime":3739.329,"endTime":3740.13,"body":"anyway."},{"speaker":"Andrew Jones","startTime":3740.13,"endTime":3740.61,"body":"Beef."},{"speaker":"Andrew Jones","startTime":3740.61,"endTime":3743.369,"body":"Is there any big differences in"},{"speaker":"Andrew Jones","startTime":3740.61,"endTime":3743.369,"body":"in beef what you should be"},{"speaker":"Andrew Jones","startTime":3743.369,"endTime":3744.929,"body":"feeding them levels for them."},{"speaker":"Annie Williams","startTime":3745.65,"endTime":3746.639,"body":"I think there are some"},{"speaker":"Annie Williams","startTime":3746.639,"endTime":3748.199,"body":"differences because of what I"},{"speaker":"Annie Williams","startTime":3748.199,"endTime":3750.78,"body":"have referred to in terms of it"},{"speaker":"Annie Williams","startTime":3750.78,"endTime":3753.519,"body":"being a lifetime approach in"},{"speaker":"Annie Williams","startTime":3753.519,"endTime":3754.159,"body":"dairy."},{"speaker":"Annie Williams","startTime":3754.159,"endTime":3756.679,"body":"Obviously, being having like"},{"speaker":"Annie Williams","startTime":3756.679,"endTime":3757.96,"body":"significant amounts of milk"},{"speaker":"Annie Williams","startTime":3757.96,"endTime":3759.599,"body":"replacer, significant amounts of"},{"speaker":"Annie Williams","startTime":3759.599,"endTime":3761.36,"body":"starter feed and the impact that"},{"speaker":"Annie Williams","startTime":3761.36,"endTime":3763.079,"body":"has on their liver, copper as"},{"speaker":"Annie Williams","startTime":3763.079,"endTime":3764.36,"body":"young animals."},{"speaker":"Annie Williams","startTime":3764.36,"endTime":3766.159,"body":"Whereas beef, if we're talking"},{"speaker":"Annie Williams","startTime":3766.159,"endTime":3768.619,"body":"about a suckler beef system,"},{"speaker":"Annie Williams","startTime":3768.619,"endTime":3770.8,"body":"thinking about them as being on"},{"speaker":"Annie Williams","startTime":3770.8,"endTime":3772.92,"body":"whole milk and then perhaps"},{"speaker":"Annie Williams","startTime":3772.92,"endTime":3774.8,"body":"going on to depending on"},{"speaker":"Annie Williams","startTime":3774.8,"endTime":3776.92,"body":"production, more forage based,"},{"speaker":"Annie Williams","startTime":3776.92,"endTime":3778.92,"body":"then yes, we would see some"},{"speaker":"Annie Williams","startTime":3778.92,"endTime":3779.639,"body":"differences."},{"speaker":"Annie Williams","startTime":3779.639,"endTime":3783.159,"body":"So although we don't necessarily"},{"speaker":"Annie Williams","startTime":3779.639,"endTime":3783.159,"body":"see differences in terms of how"},{"speaker":"Annie Williams","startTime":3783.159,"endTime":3788.039,"body":"those animals absorb metabolize"},{"speaker":"Annie Williams","startTime":3783.159,"endTime":3788.039,"body":"copper and therefore don't see"},{"speaker":"Annie Williams","startTime":3788.039,"endTime":3792.079,"body":"massive differences probably in"},{"speaker":"Annie Williams","startTime":3788.039,"endTime":3792.079,"body":"requirement, when we actually"},{"speaker":"Annie Williams","startTime":3792.079,"endTime":3795.48,"body":"break it down and start to look"},{"speaker":"Annie Williams","startTime":3792.079,"endTime":3795.48,"body":"at it on a systems basis, then"},{"speaker":"Annie Williams","startTime":3795.48,"endTime":3797.119,"body":"we probably do."},{"speaker":"Annie Williams","startTime":3797.119,"endTime":3798.88,"body":"And certainly across the beef"},{"speaker":"Annie Williams","startTime":3798.88,"endTime":3802.159,"body":"industry, I would still see a"},{"speaker":"Annie Williams","startTime":3802.159,"endTime":3803.875,"body":"number of cases of copper"},{"speaker":"Annie Williams","startTime":3803.875,"endTime":3805.63,"body":"deficiency where I could say"},{"speaker":"Annie Williams","startTime":3805.63,"endTime":3806.909,"body":"these animals would perform"},{"speaker":"Annie Williams","startTime":3806.909,"endTime":3807.349,"body":"better."},{"speaker":"Annie Williams","startTime":3807.349,"endTime":3810.269,"body":"If we got a bit more copper in"},{"speaker":"Annie Williams","startTime":3807.349,"endTime":3810.269,"body":"these diets."},{"speaker":"Annie Williams","startTime":3810.269,"endTime":3812.389,"body":"That'd be very rare in dairy."},{"speaker":"Andrew Jones","startTime":3814.07,"endTime":3815.949,"body":"So looking at the time, I guess"},{"speaker":"Andrew Jones","startTime":3815.949,"endTime":3817.349,"body":"it's time we start wrapping this"},{"speaker":"Andrew Jones","startTime":3817.349,"endTime":3817.55,"body":"up."},{"speaker":"Andrew Jones","startTime":3817.55,"endTime":3820.269,"body":"So any last words of wisdom from"},{"speaker":"Andrew Jones","startTime":3817.55,"endTime":3820.269,"body":"yourself, Annie?"},{"speaker":"Annie Williams","startTime":3821.55,"endTime":3824.789,"body":"I would say evaluate copper in"},{"speaker":"Annie Williams","startTime":3824.789,"endTime":3827.15,"body":"the system that you have on farm"},{"speaker":"Annie Williams","startTime":3827.15,"endTime":3829.389,"body":"to understand where the weak"},{"speaker":"Annie Williams","startTime":3829.389,"endTime":3830.409,"body":"points are, where they're going"},{"speaker":"Annie Williams","startTime":3830.409,"endTime":3831.51,"body":"to accumulate copper, where"},{"speaker":"Annie Williams","startTime":3831.51,"endTime":3832.989,"body":"they're going to use copper so"},{"speaker":"Annie Williams","startTime":3832.989,"endTime":3834.55,"body":"that we can formulate more"},{"speaker":"Annie Williams","startTime":3834.55,"endTime":3837.03,"body":"accurately and we can get better"},{"speaker":"Annie Williams","startTime":3837.03,"endTime":3838.429,"body":"animal performance."},{"speaker":"Andrew Jones","startTime":3839.269,"endTime":3840.67,"body":"At any mineral, really, isn't"},{"speaker":"Andrew Jones","startTime":3839.269,"endTime":3840.67,"body":"it?"},{"speaker":"Andrew Jones","startTime":3840.67,"endTime":3844.15,"body":"But obviously today we're here"},{"speaker":"Andrew Jones","startTime":3840.67,"endTime":3844.15,"body":"talking about about copper."},{"speaker":"Andrew Jones","startTime":3844.15,"endTime":3845.75,"body":"Um, Sarah."},{"speaker":"Sarah Bolt","startTime":3846.309,"endTime":3847.809,"body":"I think the thing that I've"},{"speaker":"Sarah Bolt","startTime":3847.809,"endTime":3849.989,"body":"learned from today's chat is"},{"speaker":"Sarah Bolt","startTime":3849.989,"endTime":3852.449,"body":"that actually, I always thought"},{"speaker":"Sarah Bolt","startTime":3852.449,"endTime":3854.03,"body":"perhaps copper deficiency was"},{"speaker":"Sarah Bolt","startTime":3854.03,"endTime":3856.329,"body":"probably more of the issue than"},{"speaker":"Sarah Bolt","startTime":3856.329,"endTime":3857.429,"body":"excess."},{"speaker":"Sarah Bolt","startTime":3857.429,"endTime":3862.489,"body":"And perhaps that's something"},{"speaker":"Sarah Bolt","startTime":3857.429,"endTime":3862.489,"body":"that's just historic that I'm"},{"speaker":"Sarah Bolt","startTime":3862.489,"endTime":3865.949,"body":"getting a bit long in the tooth"},{"speaker":"Sarah Bolt","startTime":3862.489,"endTime":3865.949,"body":"and remember, you know, sort of,"},{"speaker":"Sarah Bolt","startTime":3865.949,"endTime":3868.03,"body":"uh, a lot of what we were"},{"speaker":"Sarah Bolt","startTime":3865.949,"endTime":3868.03,"body":"talking about earlier."},{"speaker":"Sarah Bolt","startTime":3868.03,"endTime":3871.849,"body":"So it's a case of, I think it's"},{"speaker":"Sarah Bolt","startTime":3868.03,"endTime":3871.849,"body":"really highlighted the fact of,"},{"speaker":"Sarah Bolt","startTime":3871.849,"endTime":3876.11,"body":"you know, um, there is this"},{"speaker":"Sarah Bolt","startTime":3871.849,"endTime":3876.11,"body":"excess out there and we always"},{"speaker":"Sarah Bolt","startTime":3876.11,"endTime":3878.869,"body":"talk about lead and molybdenum"},{"speaker":"Sarah Bolt","startTime":3876.11,"endTime":3878.869,"body":"and go, oh, it's all right."},{"speaker":"Sarah Bolt","startTime":3878.869,"endTime":3881.07,"body":"We've got really high levels of"},{"speaker":"Sarah Bolt","startTime":3878.869,"endTime":3881.07,"body":"that in this region."},{"speaker":"Sarah Bolt","startTime":3881.07,"endTime":3882.75,"body":"So it's going to be locking it"},{"speaker":"Sarah Bolt","startTime":3881.07,"endTime":3882.75,"body":"up."},{"speaker":"Sarah Bolt","startTime":3882.75,"endTime":3885.309,"body":"So it doesn't matter that we're"},{"speaker":"Sarah Bolt","startTime":3882.75,"endTime":3885.309,"body":"feeding a bit more or the like."},{"speaker":"Sarah Bolt","startTime":3885.309,"endTime":3889.03,"body":"And I think it's just actually,"},{"speaker":"Sarah Bolt","startTime":3885.309,"endTime":3889.03,"body":"as you say, it's back to have a"},{"speaker":"Sarah Bolt","startTime":3889.03,"endTime":3891.389,"body":"look at your own system, have a"},{"speaker":"Sarah Bolt","startTime":3889.03,"endTime":3891.389,"body":"look at your own cows."},{"speaker":"Sarah Bolt","startTime":3891.389,"endTime":3894.11,"body":"And actually really, it's back"},{"speaker":"Sarah Bolt","startTime":3894.11,"endTime":3895.989,"body":"to sort of the Kingshay mantra"},{"speaker":"Sarah Bolt","startTime":3895.989,"endTime":3898.53,"body":"of measure and to and monitor to"},{"speaker":"Sarah Bolt","startTime":3898.53,"endTime":3899.789,"body":"make an informed management"},{"speaker":"Sarah Bolt","startTime":3899.789,"endTime":3900.23,"body":"decision."},{"speaker":"Sarah Bolt","startTime":3900.23,"endTime":3904.11,"body":"I think it's, uh, that's what"},{"speaker":"Sarah Bolt","startTime":3900.23,"endTime":3904.11,"body":"everything in farming is about."},{"speaker":"Sarah Bolt","startTime":3904.11,"endTime":3905.55,"body":"But I think particularly in this"},{"speaker":"Sarah Bolt","startTime":3905.55,"endTime":3907.269,"body":"instance, it's, uh, it's very"},{"speaker":"Sarah Bolt","startTime":3907.269,"endTime":3908.23,"body":"appropriate."},{"speaker":"Andrew Jones","startTime":3909.15,"endTime":3910.71,"body":"Oh, well, I like to say, first"},{"speaker":"Andrew Jones","startTime":3910.71,"endTime":3911.65,"body":"of all, thank you very much to"},{"speaker":"Andrew Jones","startTime":3911.65,"endTime":3911.949,"body":"Annie."},{"speaker":"Andrew Jones","startTime":3911.949,"endTime":3913.349,"body":"It's been a fantastic"},{"speaker":"Andrew Jones","startTime":3913.349,"endTime":3915.71,"body":"conversation, um, and been very"},{"speaker":"Andrew Jones","startTime":3915.71,"endTime":3917.03,"body":"informative and."},{"speaker":"Andrew Jones","startTime":3917.03,"endTime":3918.989,"body":"Well, you say that the biggest"},{"speaker":"Andrew Jones","startTime":3918.989,"endTime":3920.11,"body":"problem probably is, is there's"},{"speaker":"Andrew Jones","startTime":3920.11,"endTime":3921.469,"body":"not a lot of difference between"},{"speaker":"Andrew Jones","startTime":3921.469,"endTime":3922.63,"body":"something that's deficient and"},{"speaker":"Andrew Jones","startTime":3922.63,"endTime":3923.789,"body":"something that's excess in"},{"speaker":"Andrew Jones","startTime":3923.789,"endTime":3924.949,"body":"copper as to what you're looking"},{"speaker":"Andrew Jones","startTime":3924.949,"endTime":3925.19,"body":"for."},{"speaker":"Andrew Jones","startTime":3925.19,"endTime":3927.53,"body":"So it's not the easiest thing to"},{"speaker":"Andrew Jones","startTime":3927.53,"endTime":3928.67,"body":"necessarily know which way"},{"speaker":"Andrew Jones","startTime":3928.67,"endTime":3929.71,"body":"you're going."},{"speaker":"Andrew Jones","startTime":3929.71,"endTime":3932.03,"body":"Um, but it's been really good."},{"speaker":"Andrew Jones","startTime":3932.03,"endTime":3934.489,"body":"We've actually talked about"},{"speaker":"Andrew Jones","startTime":3932.03,"endTime":3934.489,"body":"some, some basics, some"},{"speaker":"Andrew Jones","startTime":3934.489,"endTime":3938.19,"body":"historical stuff and just"},{"speaker":"Andrew Jones","startTime":3934.489,"endTime":3938.19,"body":"brought things a little bit more"},{"speaker":"Andrew Jones","startTime":3938.19,"endTime":3938.789,"body":"up to date."},{"speaker":"Andrew Jones","startTime":3938.789,"endTime":3940.51,"body":"And as I say, that highlighted"},{"speaker":"Andrew Jones","startTime":3940.51,"endTime":3942.71,"body":"the fact that I think that was"},{"speaker":"Andrew Jones","startTime":3942.71,"endTime":3943.829,"body":"why you wanted to do this,"},{"speaker":"Andrew Jones","startTime":3943.829,"endTime":3944.15,"body":"wasn't it?"},{"speaker":"Andrew Jones","startTime":3944.15,"endTime":3945.11,"body":"It was highlighted the fact that"},{"speaker":"Andrew Jones","startTime":3945.11,"endTime":3946.349,"body":"there is an excess of copper"},{"speaker":"Andrew Jones","startTime":3946.349,"endTime":3947.389,"body":"being fed."},{"speaker":"Andrew Jones","startTime":3947.389,"endTime":3950.309,"body":"Uh, and maybe just to make"},{"speaker":"Andrew Jones","startTime":3947.389,"endTime":3950.309,"body":"people a little bit more aware"},{"speaker":"Andrew Jones","startTime":3950.309,"endTime":3952.469,"body":"to, to ask the questions."},{"speaker":"Andrew Jones","startTime":3952.469,"endTime":3953.75,"body":"And that's what it's all about"},{"speaker":"Andrew Jones","startTime":3953.75,"endTime":3955.71,"body":"to see if, as Sarah highlighted,"},{"speaker":"Andrew Jones","startTime":3955.71,"endTime":3957.15,"body":"are you feeding excess copper"},{"speaker":"Andrew Jones","startTime":3957.15,"endTime":3958.73,"body":"that you don't need to therefore"},{"speaker":"Andrew Jones","startTime":3958.73,"endTime":3959.769,"body":"make your mineral that little"},{"speaker":"Andrew Jones","startTime":3959.769,"endTime":3960.269,"body":"bit cheaper?"},{"speaker":"Andrew Jones","startTime":3960.269,"endTime":3961.949,"body":"So ultimately it can save"},{"speaker":"Andrew Jones","startTime":3961.949,"endTime":3962.989,"body":"yourself a little bit of money"},{"speaker":"Andrew Jones","startTime":3962.989,"endTime":3963.789,"body":"as well."},{"speaker":"Andrew Jones","startTime":3963.789,"endTime":3967.429,"body":"Um, so on that I'd, I'd like to"},{"speaker":"Andrew Jones","startTime":3963.789,"endTime":3967.429,"body":"say again, thank you very much"},{"speaker":"Andrew Jones","startTime":3967.429,"endTime":3970.15,"body":"to Annie, but otherwise it's a"},{"speaker":"Andrew Jones","startTime":3967.429,"endTime":3970.15,"body":"goodbye from me."},{"speaker":"Sarah Bolt","startTime":3970.909,"endTime":3972.19,"body":"It's a goodbye from me."},{"speaker":"Annie Williams","startTime":3972.67,"endTime":3973.829,"body":"Thanks for having me."},{"speaker":"Andrew Jones","startTime":3974.429,"endTime":3975.75,"body":"Thank you very much."},{"speaker":"Victoria Ham","startTime":3982.699,"endTime":3985.86,"body":"Arm \u0026 Hammer Animal Nutrition"},{"speaker":"Victoria Ham","startTime":3982.699,"endTime":3985.86,"body":"are pleased to support ChewintheCud Podcast."},{"speaker":"Victoria Ham","startTime":3987.46,"endTime":3989.199,"body":"We're all in when it comes to"},{"speaker":"Victoria Ham","startTime":3989.199,"endTime":3990.579,"body":"supporting healthy productive"},{"speaker":"Victoria Ham","startTime":3990.579,"endTime":3992.179,"body":"farm animals."},{"speaker":"Victoria Ham","startTime":3992.179,"endTime":3996.579,"body":"Please visit ahanimalnutrition.com"},{"speaker":"Victoria Ham","startTime":3992.179,"endTime":3996.579,"body":"for more information."},{"speaker":"Andrew Jones","startTime":4038.369,"endTime":4041.369,"body":"Thank you for listening to the"},{"speaker":"Andrew Jones","startTime":4038.369,"endTime":4041.369,"body":"ChewintheCud Podcast, where we bring"},{"speaker":"Andrew Jones","startTime":4041.369,"endTime":4044.13,"body":"you conversations for the dairy"},{"speaker":"Andrew Jones","startTime":4041.369,"endTime":4044.13,"body":"industry, produced in the South"},{"speaker":"Andrew Jones","startTime":4044.13,"endTime":4046.809,"body":"West of England, and listened to"},{"speaker":"Andrew Jones","startTime":4044.13,"endTime":4046.809,"body":"around the world."},{"speaker":"Andrew Jones","startTime":4046.809,"endTime":4049.13,"body":"And now for the really boring"},{"speaker":"Andrew Jones","startTime":4046.809,"endTime":4049.13,"body":"bit I'm afraid — the legal"},{"speaker":"Andrew Jones","startTime":4049.13,"endTime":4052.21,"body":"disclaimer. The information"},{"speaker":"Andrew Jones","startTime":4049.13,"endTime":4052.21,"body":"provided during this podcast has"},{"speaker":"Andrew Jones","startTime":4052.21,"endTime":4054.809,"body":"been prepared for general"},{"speaker":"Andrew Jones","startTime":4052.21,"endTime":4054.809,"body":"information purposes only and"},{"speaker":"Andrew Jones","startTime":4054.809,"endTime":4056.969,"body":"does not constitute advice."},{"speaker":"Andrew Jones","startTime":4056.969,"endTime":4060.21,"body":"The information must not be relied"},{"speaker":"Andrew Jones","startTime":4056.969,"endTime":4060.21,"body":"upon for any purpose and no"},{"speaker":"Andrew Jones","startTime":4060.21,"endTime":4062.929,"body":"representation or warranty is"},{"speaker":"Andrew Jones","startTime":4060.21,"endTime":4062.929,"body":"given to its accuracy,"},{"speaker":"Andrew Jones","startTime":4062.929,"endTime":4065.25,"body":"completeness or otherwise."},{"speaker":"Andrew Jones","startTime":4065.25,"endTime":4066.17,"body":"Any reference to other"},{"speaker":"Andrew Jones","startTime":4066.17,"endTime":4067.849,"body":"organisations, businesses or"},{"speaker":"Andrew Jones","startTime":4067.849,"endTime":4069.21,"body":"products during the podcast are"},{"speaker":"Andrew Jones","startTime":4069.21,"endTime":4070.13,"body":"not endorsements or"},{"speaker":"Andrew Jones","startTime":4070.13,"endTime":4071.449,"body":"recommendations of ChewintheCud"},{"speaker":"Andrew Jones","startTime":4071.449,"endTime":4072.69,"body":"Ltd."},{"speaker":"Andrew Jones","startTime":4072.69,"endTime":4075.17,"body":"The views of Andrew Jones are"},{"speaker":"Andrew Jones","startTime":4072.69,"endTime":4075.17,"body":"personal and may not be the"},{"speaker":"Andrew Jones","startTime":4075.17,"endTime":4078.01,"body":"views of ChewintheCud Ltd,"},{"speaker":"Andrew Jones","startTime":4075.17,"endTime":4078.01,"body":"and the views of Sarah Bolt are"},{"speaker":"Andrew Jones","startTime":4078.01,"endTime":4078.929,"body":"personal and may not be the views of"},{"speaker":"Andrew Jones","startTime":4078.929,"endTime":4080.13,"body":"Kingshay Farming"},{"speaker":"Andrew Jones","startTime":4080.13,"endTime":4082.05,"body":"and Conservation Ltd, and any"},{"speaker":"Andrew Jones","startTime":4082.05,"endTime":4083.889,"body":"affiliated companies."},{"speaker":"Andrew Jones","startTime":4083.889,"endTime":4084.849,"body":"For more information on the"},{"speaker":"Andrew Jones","startTime":4084.849,"endTime":4086.61,"body":"podcast and details of services"},{"speaker":"Andrew Jones","startTime":4086.61,"endTime":4087.69,"body":"offered by ChewintheCud"},{"speaker":"Andrew Jones","startTime":4087.69,"endTime":4090.289,"body":"Ltd visit www.chewinthecud.com."},{"speaker":"Andrew Jones","startTime":4091.05,"endTime":4092.73,"body":"Thank you and goodbye."}]}