{"version":"1.0.0","segments":[{"speaker":"Andrew Jones","startTime":15.119,"endTime":15.837,"body":"This is the"},{"speaker":"Andrew Jones","startTime":15.837,"endTime":17.214,"body":"ChewintheCud Podcast —"},{"speaker":"Andrew Jones","startTime":17.214,"endTime":18.891,"body":"conversations for the dairy"},{"speaker":"Andrew Jones","startTime":18.891,"endTime":20.807,"body":"industry, produced in the South"},{"speaker":"Andrew Jones","startTime":20.807,"endTime":22.722,"body":"West of England and listened to"},{"speaker":"Andrew Jones","startTime":22.722,"endTime":23.8,"body":"around the world."},{"speaker":"Andrew Jones","startTime":35.479,"endTime":36.704,"body":"Hello and welcome"},{"speaker":"Andrew Jones","startTime":36.704,"endTime":38.068,"body":"to ChewintheCud Podcast. My name"},{"speaker":"Andrew Jones","startTime":38.068,"endTime":39.984,"body":"is Andrew Jones and with me as"},{"speaker":"Andrew Jones","startTime":39.984,"endTime":41.591,"body":"always is Sarah Bolt. How are"},{"speaker":"Andrew Jones","startTime":41.591,"endTime":42.359,"body":"you doing, Sarah?"},{"speaker":"Sarah Bolt","startTime":42.2,"endTime":42.935,"body":"I'm very well, thank"},{"speaker":"Sarah Bolt","startTime":42.935,"endTime":44.28,"body":"you. Andrew. How are you?"},{"speaker":"Andrew Jones","startTime":44.32,"endTime":44.991,"body":"Yeah, I'm not too"},{"speaker":"Andrew Jones","startTime":44.991,"endTime":46.63,"body":"bad. I'm not too bad. So today"},{"speaker":"Andrew Jones","startTime":46.63,"endTime":48.305,"body":"we have a special double"},{"speaker":"Andrew Jones","startTime":48.305,"endTime":49.954,"body":"episode. This is not an episode"},{"speaker":"Andrew Jones","startTime":49.954,"endTime":51.794,"body":"as we've done, uh, two and a"},{"speaker":"Andrew Jones","startTime":51.794,"endTime":53.306,"body":"half years ago that we've split"},{"speaker":"Andrew Jones","startTime":53.306,"endTime":55.676,"body":"in half. This is two completely"},{"speaker":"Andrew Jones","startTime":55.676,"endTime":57.552,"body":"separate episodes that just"},{"speaker":"Andrew Jones","startTime":57.552,"endTime":60.2,"body":"happen to be being released at"},{"speaker":"Andrew Jones","startTime":60.2,"endTime":61.439,"body":"the same time."},{"speaker":"Sarah Bolt","startTime":61.52,"endTime":62.672,"body":"Both on the same"},{"speaker":"Sarah Bolt","startTime":62.672,"endTime":62.96,"body":"topic."},{"speaker":"Andrew Jones","startTime":63.32,"endTime":64.279,"body":"Both on the same"},{"speaker":"Andrew Jones","startTime":64.279,"endTime":66.4,"body":"topic. And that's why we thought"},{"speaker":"Andrew Jones","startTime":66.4,"endTime":68.28,"body":"ultimately it was probably the"},{"speaker":"Andrew Jones","startTime":68.28,"endTime":71.648,"body":"best way to go. Um, both TB"},{"speaker":"Andrew Jones","startTime":71.648,"endTime":75.028,"body":"related one is not this one, the"},{"speaker":"Andrew Jones","startTime":75.028,"endTime":78.267,"body":"other one is the one that we've"},{"speaker":"Andrew Jones","startTime":78.267,"endTime":80.447,"body":"been teasing about for what,"},{"speaker":"Andrew Jones","startTime":80.447,"endTime":82.421,"body":"nine months? Um, that it's the"},{"speaker":"Andrew Jones","startTime":82.421,"endTime":84.539,"body":"one we can't talk about. We can"},{"speaker":"Andrew Jones","startTime":84.539,"endTime":86.39,"body":"finally now talk about it"},{"speaker":"Andrew Jones","startTime":86.39,"endTime":89.61,"body":"finally. Um, and, uh, it is so,"},{"speaker":"Andrew Jones","startTime":89.61,"endTime":92.577,"body":"so we felt because of both TB"},{"speaker":"Andrew Jones","startTime":92.577,"endTime":94.063,"body":"um, because of the way the"},{"speaker":"Andrew Jones","startTime":94.063,"endTime":95.88,"body":"schedule was working, it was"},{"speaker":"Andrew Jones","startTime":95.88,"endTime":97.503,"body":"just easier to release them both"},{"speaker":"Andrew Jones","startTime":97.503,"endTime":99.496,"body":"at the same time because they do"},{"speaker":"Andrew Jones","startTime":99.496,"endTime":101.353,"body":"reference each other. This one"},{"speaker":"Andrew Jones","startTime":101.353,"endTime":103.182,"body":"there is a reference to the"},{"speaker":"Andrew Jones","startTime":103.182,"endTime":106.2,"body":"Enferplex test in it towards the"},{"speaker":"Andrew Jones","startTime":106.2,"endTime":108.409,"body":"end. I think it is. 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They"},{"speaker":"Andrew Jones","startTime":119.756,"endTime":121.942,"body":"are two completely different"},{"speaker":"Andrew Jones","startTime":121.942,"endTime":122.489,"body":"episodes."},{"speaker":"Sarah Bolt","startTime":122.53,"endTime":123.37,"body":"It's a really"},{"speaker":"Sarah Bolt","startTime":123.37,"endTime":124.769,"body":"interesting bit of research that"},{"speaker":"Sarah Bolt","startTime":124.769,"endTime":126.462,"body":"that we're talking about in that"},{"speaker":"Sarah Bolt","startTime":126.462,"endTime":128.169,"body":"in the other episode, isn't it?"},{"speaker":"Andrew Jones","startTime":128.009,"endTime":130.033,"body":"Massively. 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For the full range"},{"speaker":"Andrew Jones","startTime":218.285,"endTime":219.432,"body":"of services visit"},{"speaker":"Andrew Jones","startTime":219.432,"endTime":221.344,"body":"www.chewinthecud.com or email"},{"speaker":"Andrew Jones","startTime":221.344,"endTime":223.129,"body":"nutrition@chewinthecud.com."},{"speaker":"Andrew Jones","startTime":227.09,"endTime":228.066,"body":"This episode is"},{"speaker":"Andrew Jones","startTime":228.066,"endTime":229.468,"body":"also brought to you by"},{"speaker":"Andrew Jones","startTime":229.468,"endTime":231.42,"body":"ChewintheCud Ltd — we now offer"},{"speaker":"Andrew Jones","startTime":231.42,"endTime":233.371,"body":"first aid training designed for"},{"speaker":"Andrew Jones","startTime":233.371,"endTime":234.895,"body":"agriculture and farming,"},{"speaker":"Andrew Jones","startTime":234.895,"endTime":236.847,"body":"delivered by a registered First"},{"speaker":"Andrew Jones","startTime":236.847,"endTime":238.31,"body":"Aid at Work trainer and"},{"speaker":"Andrew Jones","startTime":238.31,"endTime":239.957,"body":"experienced Minor Injuries"},{"speaker":"Andrew Jones","startTime":239.957,"endTime":241.847,"body":"Practitioner. For more details"},{"speaker":"Andrew Jones","startTime":241.847,"endTime":243.677,"body":"visit www.chewinthecud.com or"},{"speaker":"Andrew Jones","startTime":243.677,"endTime":245.689,"body":"email training@chewinthecud.com."},{"speaker":"Andrew Jones","startTime":249.49,"endTime":250.599,"body":"Hello, I'm Andrew"},{"speaker":"Andrew Jones","startTime":250.599,"endTime":251.03,"body":"Jones,"},{"speaker":"Sarah Bolt","startTime":251.03,"endTime":252.261,"body":"and I'm Sarah Bolt."},{"speaker":"Andrew Jones","startTime":252.261,"endTime":253.431,"body":"Sarah's time today"},{"speaker":"Andrew Jones","startTime":253.431,"endTime":255.156,"body":"is kindly brought to you by"},{"speaker":"Andrew Jones","startTime":255.156,"endTime":255.833,"body":"Kingshay —"},{"speaker":"Andrew Jones \u0026 Sarah Bolt","startTime":255.833,"endTime":256.079,"body":"and"},{"speaker":"Andrew Jones \u0026 Sarah Bolt","startTime":256.079,"endTime":256.634,"body":"together"},{"speaker":"Andrew 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Bolt","startTime":301.652,"endTime":303.438,"body":"chewinthecudpodcast, all one"},{"speaker":"Sarah Bolt","startTime":303.438,"endTime":304.177,"body":"word, no G!"},{"speaker":"Andrew Jones","startTime":304.177,"endTime":305.162,"body":"Or get in touch"},{"speaker":"Andrew Jones","startTime":305.162,"endTime":305.901,"body":"directly at"},{"speaker":"Andrew Jones","startTime":305.901,"endTime":307.502,"body":"podcast@chewinthecud.com."},{"speaker":"Sarah Bolt","startTime":307.502,"endTime":308.795,"body":"If you enjoy what we"},{"speaker":"Sarah Bolt","startTime":308.795,"endTime":310.828,"body":"do, please share it and leave us"},{"speaker":"Sarah Bolt","startTime":310.828,"endTime":311.444,"body":"a review."},{"speaker":"Andrew Jones \u0026 Sarah Bolt","startTime":311.444,"endTime":311.813,"body":"Enjoy"},{"speaker":"Andrew Jones \u0026 Sarah Bolt","startTime":311.813,"endTime":312.86,"body":"today's episode."},{"speaker":"Andrew Jones","startTime":336.74,"endTime":337.54,"body":"Hello and welcome"},{"speaker":"Andrew Jones","startTime":337.54,"endTime":339.139,"body":"back to ChewintheCud podcast."},{"speaker":"Andrew Jones","startTime":339.139,"endTime":340.969,"body":"And today we're joined again by"},{"speaker":"Andrew Jones","startTime":340.969,"endTime":342.139,"body":"Sarah Tomlinson. Hello, Sarah."},{"speaker":"Andrew Jones","startTime":342.139,"endTime":342.899,"body":"How are you?"},{"speaker":"Sarah Tomlinson","startTime":342.74,"endTime":343.4,"body":"I'm good. Thank"},{"speaker":"Sarah Tomlinson","startTime":343.4,"endTime":344.86,"body":"you. Thanks for having me back."},{"speaker":"Andrew Jones","startTime":344.779,"endTime":345.5,"body":"No, you're more"},{"speaker":"Andrew Jones","startTime":345.5,"endTime":346.506,"body":"than welcome. Alright. Now,"},{"speaker":"Andrew Jones","startTime":346.506,"endTime":347.506,"body":"Sarah, for those of you who've"},{"speaker":"Andrew Jones","startTime":347.506,"endTime":348.596,"body":"been listening to us for a"},{"speaker":"Andrew Jones","startTime":348.596,"endTime":350.139,"body":"while, has been with us twice."},{"speaker":"Andrew Jones","startTime":350.139,"endTime":352.5,"body":"This is her third, um, episode."},{"speaker":"Andrew Jones","startTime":352.5,"endTime":354.872,"body":"She was with us in March 2025"},{"speaker":"Andrew Jones","startTime":354.872,"endTime":356.51,"body":"where we specifically spoke"},{"speaker":"Andrew Jones","startTime":356.51,"endTime":358.634,"body":"about TBAS. The TB Advisory"},{"speaker":"Andrew Jones","startTime":358.634,"endTime":360.324,"body":"Service, and then again in"},{"speaker":"Andrew Jones","startTime":360.324,"endTime":362.084,"body":"September 2025, when she was"},{"speaker":"Andrew Jones","startTime":362.084,"endTime":363.602,"body":"part of the panel that talked to"},{"speaker":"Andrew Jones","startTime":363.602,"endTime":366.039,"body":"us about the GB car strategy,"},{"speaker":"Andrew Jones","startTime":366.039,"endTime":368.259,"body":"past progress and future vision."},{"speaker":"Andrew Jones","startTime":368.259,"endTime":370.914,"body":"Now, Sarah is lead veterinary"},{"speaker":"Andrew Jones","startTime":370.914,"endTime":374.1,"body":"science expert at AHDB and TBAS."},{"speaker":"Andrew Jones","startTime":374.1,"endTime":375.579,"body":"But for those that haven't heard"},{"speaker":"Andrew Jones","startTime":375.579,"endTime":377.06,"body":"you before, Sarah, just give us"},{"speaker":"Andrew Jones","startTime":377.06,"endTime":378.139,"body":"a little bit about yourself"},{"speaker":"Andrew Jones","startTime":378.139,"endTime":379.5,"body":"before we get on to the topic of"},{"speaker":"Andrew Jones","startTime":379.5,"endTime":380.3,"body":"today."},{"speaker":"Sarah Tomlinson","startTime":380.139,"endTime":380.877,"body":"Yeah. So I"},{"speaker":"Sarah Tomlinson","startTime":380.877,"endTime":382.847,"body":"still like to say I am just a"},{"speaker":"Sarah Tomlinson","startTime":382.847,"endTime":385.557,"body":"farm vet. I was in practice for"},{"speaker":"Sarah Tomlinson","startTime":385.557,"endTime":387.779,"body":"twenty-something years, um, in"},{"speaker":"Sarah Tomlinson","startTime":387.779,"endTime":389.844,"body":"Derbyshire. Always just wanted"},{"speaker":"Sarah Tomlinson","startTime":389.844,"endTime":392.256,"body":"to be a farm vet, but then kind"},{"speaker":"Sarah Tomlinson","startTime":392.256,"endTime":394.248,"body":"of fell into learning more about"},{"speaker":"Sarah Tomlinson","startTime":394.248,"endTime":396.312,"body":"TB to support my farmers. Got"},{"speaker":"Sarah Tomlinson","startTime":396.312,"endTime":397.32,"body":"involved in a government"},{"speaker":"Sarah Tomlinson","startTime":397.32,"endTime":398.579,"body":"stakeholder group while I was"},{"speaker":"Sarah Tomlinson","startTime":398.579,"endTime":401.336,"body":"still in practice. Um, and yeah,"},{"speaker":"Sarah Tomlinson","startTime":401.336,"endTime":403.596,"body":"I suppose TB became my"},{"speaker":"Sarah Tomlinson","startTime":403.596,"endTime":404.926,"body":"specialist subject through"},{"speaker":"Sarah Tomlinson","startTime":404.926,"endTime":407.292,"body":"default really. And now I am"},{"speaker":"Sarah Tomlinson","startTime":407.292,"endTime":408.804,"body":"very passionate about sharing"},{"speaker":"Sarah Tomlinson","startTime":408.804,"endTime":410.691,"body":"what I've learned through that"},{"speaker":"Sarah Tomlinson","startTime":410.691,"endTime":412.947,"body":"process about Of them and, um,"},{"speaker":"Sarah Tomlinson","startTime":412.947,"endTime":414.366,"body":"about politics, about the"},{"speaker":"Sarah Tomlinson","startTime":414.366,"endTime":416.926,"body":"policy. And I suppose getting"},{"speaker":"Sarah Tomlinson","startTime":416.926,"endTime":419.673,"body":"that to the farm level to help"},{"speaker":"Sarah Tomlinson","startTime":419.673,"endTime":421.648,"body":"farmers, you know, embrace TB"},{"speaker":"Sarah Tomlinson","startTime":421.648,"endTime":423.627,"body":"control policy in line with"},{"speaker":"Sarah Tomlinson","startTime":423.627,"endTime":425.579,"body":"their business. And I guess what"},{"speaker":"Sarah Tomlinson","startTime":425.579,"endTime":426.899,"body":"we're going to talk about today,"},{"speaker":"Sarah Tomlinson","startTime":426.899,"endTime":427.73,"body":"the strategy refresh"},{"speaker":"Sarah Tomlinson","startTime":427.73,"endTime":429.295,"body":"recommendations for England that"},{"speaker":"Sarah Tomlinson","startTime":429.295,"endTime":432.152,"body":"have come out is that I think"},{"speaker":"Sarah Tomlinson","startTime":432.152,"endTime":435.167,"body":"this is a real blue sky thinking"},{"speaker":"Sarah Tomlinson","startTime":435.167,"endTime":437.666,"body":"that will will change the way we"},{"speaker":"Sarah Tomlinson","startTime":437.666,"endTime":439.477,"body":"we think about TB control, I"},{"speaker":"Sarah Tomlinson","startTime":439.477,"endTime":439.779,"body":"hope."},{"speaker":"Andrew Jones","startTime":440.1,"endTime":441.06,"body":"Well, that's what"},{"speaker":"Andrew Jones","startTime":441.06,"endTime":442.539,"body":"we're here today. You've just"},{"speaker":"Andrew Jones","startTime":442.539,"endTime":445.267,"body":"said it is to. We've had the new"},{"speaker":"Andrew Jones","startTime":445.267,"endTime":447.376,"body":"um document fifty five page"},{"speaker":"Andrew Jones","startTime":447.376,"endTime":449.802,"body":"document on bovine TB control"},{"speaker":"Andrew Jones","startTime":449.802,"endTime":452.437,"body":"strategy for England came out,"},{"speaker":"Andrew Jones","startTime":452.437,"endTime":454.934,"body":"uh, in June. Um, and it just"},{"speaker":"Andrew Jones","startTime":454.934,"endTime":456.289,"body":"seemed like an ideal time to"},{"speaker":"Andrew Jones","startTime":456.289,"endTime":457.884,"body":"catch up because obviously TB is"},{"speaker":"Andrew Jones","startTime":457.884,"endTime":459.715,"body":"such an important topic, but I"},{"speaker":"Andrew Jones","startTime":459.715,"endTime":460.791,"body":"suppose what sort of pushed it"},{"speaker":"Andrew Jones","startTime":460.791,"endTime":462.166,"body":"over the edge is, I'll be honest"},{"speaker":"Andrew Jones","startTime":462.166,"endTime":464.128,"body":"with you, I put the fifty five"},{"speaker":"Andrew Jones","startTime":464.128,"endTime":466.253,"body":"page document into AI because I"},{"speaker":"Andrew Jones","startTime":466.253,"endTime":467.619,"body":"went, I've got time to read"},{"speaker":"Andrew Jones","startTime":467.619,"endTime":469.307,"body":"fifty five pages. I just need"},{"speaker":"Andrew Jones","startTime":469.307,"endTime":470.767,"body":"the highlights. I don't need to"},{"speaker":"Andrew Jones","startTime":470.767,"endTime":472.382,"body":"know all the detail per se. It's"},{"speaker":"Andrew Jones","startTime":472.382,"endTime":474.246,"body":"not my area of expertise, but at"},{"speaker":"Andrew Jones","startTime":474.246,"endTime":474.99,"body":"least know some of the"},{"speaker":"Andrew Jones","startTime":474.99,"endTime":476.75,"body":"highlights and told it to come"},{"speaker":"Andrew Jones","startTime":476.75,"endTime":479.069,"body":"up with about a page worth of"},{"speaker":"Andrew Jones","startTime":479.069,"endTime":480.87,"body":"points. And that's what it did."},{"speaker":"Andrew Jones","startTime":480.87,"endTime":482.518,"body":"It basically came up with a full"},{"speaker":"Andrew Jones","startTime":482.518,"endTime":483.93,"body":"page in about, I think it's"},{"speaker":"Andrew Jones","startTime":483.93,"endTime":485.741,"body":"about ten points. And I thought,"},{"speaker":"Andrew Jones","startTime":485.741,"endTime":487.31,"body":"hmm, but is this true or not?"},{"speaker":"Andrew Jones","startTime":487.31,"endTime":489.321,"body":"I'm not going to know unless I"},{"speaker":"Andrew Jones","startTime":489.321,"endTime":490.47,"body":"actually read the document,"},{"speaker":"Andrew Jones","startTime":490.47,"endTime":491.541,"body":"which was the whole point. I"},{"speaker":"Andrew Jones","startTime":491.541,"endTime":493.557,"body":"didn't want to do. So I sent it"},{"speaker":"Andrew Jones","startTime":493.557,"endTime":495.182,"body":"to Sarah, who said, I think we"},{"speaker":"Andrew Jones","startTime":495.182,"endTime":496.51,"body":"better if we actually talked"},{"speaker":"Andrew Jones","startTime":496.51,"endTime":498.51,"body":"about this. So hence why we are"},{"speaker":"Andrew Jones","startTime":498.51,"endTime":499.897,"body":"here today. And I think it's"},{"speaker":"Andrew Jones","startTime":499.897,"endTime":501.33,"body":"great anyway, because this is"},{"speaker":"Andrew Jones","startTime":501.33,"endTime":503.069,"body":"still fresh in people's minds."},{"speaker":"Andrew Jones","startTime":503.069,"endTime":504.982,"body":"We need to talk about this. And"},{"speaker":"Andrew Jones","startTime":504.982,"endTime":506.325,"body":"I know it's been talked about in"},{"speaker":"Andrew Jones","startTime":506.325,"endTime":509.476,"body":"the past. There was um an update"},{"speaker":"Andrew Jones","startTime":509.476,"endTime":512.177,"body":"due. So it is now happened. So I"},{"speaker":"Andrew Jones","startTime":512.177,"endTime":513.58,"body":"suppose, Sarah, give us a little"},{"speaker":"Andrew Jones","startTime":513.58,"endTime":514.935,"body":"bit of background on that and"},{"speaker":"Andrew Jones","startTime":514.935,"endTime":515.862,"body":"then we'll actually go through"},{"speaker":"Andrew Jones","startTime":515.862,"endTime":517.105,"body":"what some of the issues it's"},{"speaker":"Andrew Jones","startTime":517.105,"endTime":518.682,"body":"raised or some of the"},{"speaker":"Andrew Jones","startTime":518.682,"endTime":519.629,"body":"recommendations it's made."},{"speaker":"Sarah Tomlinson","startTime":519.629,"endTime":520.259,"body":"Yeah. So I"},{"speaker":"Sarah Tomlinson","startTime":520.259,"endTime":521.309,"body":"guess some people might be"},{"speaker":"Sarah Tomlinson","startTime":521.309,"endTime":522.549,"body":"rolling their eyes and go, oh,"},{"speaker":"Sarah Tomlinson","startTime":522.549,"endTime":523.563,"body":"we've been here before. We've"},{"speaker":"Sarah Tomlinson","startTime":523.563,"endTime":525.681,"body":"done this. We've done refresh it"},{"speaker":"Sarah Tomlinson","startTime":525.681,"endTime":527.79,"body":"to strategy control. But I think"},{"speaker":"Sarah Tomlinson","startTime":527.79,"endTime":529.749,"body":"this is the very first time that"},{"speaker":"Sarah Tomlinson","startTime":529.749,"endTime":530.921,"body":"government have involved"},{"speaker":"Sarah Tomlinson","startTime":530.921,"endTime":533.367,"body":"farmers, vets, scientists in"},{"speaker":"Sarah Tomlinson","startTime":533.367,"endTime":535.33,"body":"designing what that strategy"},{"speaker":"Sarah Tomlinson","startTime":535.33,"endTime":537.363,"body":"looks like. So what got me"},{"speaker":"Sarah Tomlinson","startTime":537.363,"endTime":539.95,"body":"involved in TB was in 2013/14,"},{"speaker":"Sarah Tomlinson","startTime":539.95,"endTime":541.848,"body":"we got the 25-year TB"},{"speaker":"Sarah Tomlinson","startTime":541.848,"endTime":543.429,"body":"eradication strategy, but that"},{"speaker":"Sarah Tomlinson","startTime":543.429,"endTime":546.682,"body":"was very much a government Defra"},{"speaker":"Sarah Tomlinson","startTime":546.682,"endTime":550.016,"body":"vision, I think. Um, and so this"},{"speaker":"Sarah Tomlinson","startTime":550.016,"endTime":551.692,"body":"strategy that's come out, you"},{"speaker":"Sarah Tomlinson","startTime":551.692,"endTime":553.162,"body":"know, the NFU have been involved"},{"speaker":"Sarah Tomlinson","startTime":553.162,"endTime":554.456,"body":"in it, the British Cattle"},{"speaker":"Sarah Tomlinson","startTime":554.456,"endTime":555.972,"body":"Veterinary Association, um I"},{"speaker":"Sarah Tomlinson","startTime":555.972,"endTime":557.029,"body":"chaired one of the working"},{"speaker":"Sarah Tomlinson","startTime":557.029,"endTime":559.59,"body":"groups, um, you know, we, and we"},{"speaker":"Sarah Tomlinson","startTime":559.59,"endTime":561.47,"body":"brought in people that haven't"},{"speaker":"Sarah Tomlinson","startTime":561.47,"endTime":562.789,"body":"always, always been around that"},{"speaker":"Sarah Tomlinson","startTime":562.789,"endTime":564.696,"body":"table. There has been fresh"},{"speaker":"Sarah Tomlinson","startTime":564.696,"endTime":566.563,"body":"ideas and fresh thoughts and um,"},{"speaker":"Sarah Tomlinson","startTime":566.563,"endTime":568.07,"body":"and I think that's what's really"},{"speaker":"Sarah Tomlinson","startTime":568.07,"endTime":569.922,"body":"powerful. Over a hundred people"},{"speaker":"Sarah Tomlinson","startTime":569.922,"endTime":571.789,"body":"worked on this, this document."},{"speaker":"Sarah Tomlinson","startTime":571.789,"endTime":573.772,"body":"There's been a core steering"},{"speaker":"Sarah Tomlinson","startTime":573.772,"endTime":576.549,"body":"group, um, which kind of sort of"},{"speaker":"Sarah Tomlinson","startTime":576.549,"endTime":577.999,"body":"signed off the final strategy,"},{"speaker":"Sarah Tomlinson","startTime":577.999,"endTime":580.029,"body":"but it wasn't APHA and Defra, it"},{"speaker":"Sarah Tomlinson","startTime":580.029,"endTime":583.07,"body":"was farmers and vets as well."},{"speaker":"Sarah Tomlinson","startTime":583.07,"endTime":584.613,"body":"Um, so that's what's different"},{"speaker":"Sarah Tomlinson","startTime":584.613,"endTime":586.606,"body":"about it. It's very much a"},{"speaker":"Sarah Tomlinson","startTime":586.606,"endTime":587.71,"body":"roadmap. I hate that term."},{"speaker":"Sarah Tomlinson","startTime":587.71,"endTime":588.777,"body":"There's too many roadmaps out"},{"speaker":"Sarah Tomlinson","startTime":588.777,"endTime":590.823,"body":"there. Isn't there a strategy, a"},{"speaker":"Sarah Tomlinson","startTime":590.823,"endTime":592.694,"body":"vision? It's not a delivery"},{"speaker":"Sarah Tomlinson","startTime":592.694,"endTime":594.288,"body":"plan. So I think that's again,"},{"speaker":"Sarah Tomlinson","startTime":594.288,"endTime":595.506,"body":"where people are feeling like,"},{"speaker":"Sarah Tomlinson","startTime":595.506,"endTime":597.13,"body":"okay, yeah, but let's put our"},{"speaker":"Sarah Tomlinson","startTime":597.13,"endTime":598.782,"body":"money where our mouth is. But,"},{"speaker":"Sarah Tomlinson","startTime":598.782,"endTime":601.182,"body":"and there is a real push to be"},{"speaker":"Sarah Tomlinson","startTime":601.182,"endTime":603.149,"body":"more be quicker about"},{"speaker":"Sarah Tomlinson","startTime":603.149,"endTime":604.743,"body":"controlling TB. And that's a"},{"speaker":"Sarah Tomlinson","startTime":604.743,"endTime":606.248,"body":"real theme that goes through the"},{"speaker":"Sarah Tomlinson","startTime":606.248,"endTime":607.678,"body":"whole strategy is we need to"},{"speaker":"Sarah Tomlinson","startTime":607.678,"endTime":608.838,"body":"just make decisions, act on"},{"speaker":"Sarah Tomlinson","startTime":608.838,"endTime":610.202,"body":"them. If they don't work, move"},{"speaker":"Sarah Tomlinson","startTime":610.202,"endTime":611.801,"body":"on. If they work, brilliant,"},{"speaker":"Sarah Tomlinson","startTime":611.801,"endTime":613.858,"body":"roll them out. So that kind of"},{"speaker":"Sarah Tomlinson","startTime":613.858,"endTime":615.555,"body":"speed, need for speed and pace"},{"speaker":"Sarah Tomlinson","startTime":615.555,"endTime":618.081,"body":"is is quite clear in it. So I"},{"speaker":"Sarah Tomlinson","startTime":618.081,"endTime":620.276,"body":"know the steering group has met"},{"speaker":"Sarah Tomlinson","startTime":620.276,"endTime":622.47,"body":"already to look at what that"},{"speaker":"Sarah Tomlinson","startTime":622.47,"endTime":624.448,"body":"delivery board looks like. So"},{"speaker":"Sarah Tomlinson","startTime":624.448,"endTime":625.995,"body":"that's going to be an industry"},{"speaker":"Sarah Tomlinson","startTime":625.995,"endTime":627.764,"body":"government board to actually set"},{"speaker":"Sarah Tomlinson","startTime":627.764,"endTime":630.252,"body":"think about what the priorities"},{"speaker":"Sarah Tomlinson","startTime":630.252,"endTime":632.965,"body":"are. Who funds what. Um because"},{"speaker":"Sarah Tomlinson","startTime":632.965,"endTime":635.006,"body":"again government pay one hundred"},{"speaker":"Sarah Tomlinson","startTime":635.006,"endTime":637.189,"body":"million pounds every year to"},{"speaker":"Sarah Tomlinson","startTime":637.189,"endTime":639.883,"body":"control TB. Um, we can't, they"},{"speaker":"Sarah Tomlinson","startTime":639.883,"endTime":641.664,"body":"can't afford to do the nice"},{"speaker":"Sarah Tomlinson","startTime":641.664,"endTime":642.974,"body":"stuff, the stuff that actually"},{"speaker":"Sarah Tomlinson","startTime":642.974,"endTime":644.682,"body":"vets and farmers want. So there"},{"speaker":"Sarah Tomlinson","startTime":644.682,"endTime":646.401,"body":"has to be some contribution from"},{"speaker":"Sarah Tomlinson","startTime":646.401,"endTime":648.759,"body":"industry, I would argue. Good."},{"speaker":"Sarah Tomlinson","startTime":648.759,"endTime":649.6,"body":"You know, some of the good"},{"speaker":"Sarah Tomlinson","startTime":649.6,"endTime":650.679,"body":"farmers are already doing a lot"},{"speaker":"Sarah Tomlinson","startTime":650.679,"endTime":651.944,"body":"of that. They're investing in"},{"speaker":"Sarah Tomlinson","startTime":651.944,"endTime":653.075,"body":"good biosecurity. They're"},{"speaker":"Sarah Tomlinson","startTime":653.075,"endTime":655.449,"body":"investing in, um, managing what"},{"speaker":"Sarah Tomlinson","startTime":655.449,"endTime":657.171,"body":"they trade. Um, and we just need"},{"speaker":"Sarah Tomlinson","startTime":657.171,"endTime":658.707,"body":"to make that more accessible to,"},{"speaker":"Sarah Tomlinson","startTime":658.707,"endTime":661.217,"body":"to all farmers. So I think we"},{"speaker":"Sarah Tomlinson","startTime":661.217,"endTime":662.575,"body":"shouldn't be too worried about"},{"speaker":"Sarah Tomlinson","startTime":662.575,"endTime":664.009,"body":"the, the cost sharing that comes"},{"speaker":"Sarah Tomlinson","startTime":664.009,"endTime":665.866,"body":"out of this because I think that"},{"speaker":"Sarah Tomlinson","startTime":665.866,"endTime":667.366,"body":"is industry will want to do it"},{"speaker":"Sarah Tomlinson","startTime":667.366,"endTime":668.307,"body":"because it's the right thing to"},{"speaker":"Sarah Tomlinson","startTime":668.307,"endTime":670.231,"body":"do for businesses, not just for"},{"speaker":"Sarah Tomlinson","startTime":670.231,"endTime":673.089,"body":"TB control. Um, so yeah, that's"},{"speaker":"Sarah Tomlinson","startTime":673.089,"endTime":676.068,"body":"kind of the how it came about, I"},{"speaker":"Sarah Tomlinson","startTime":676.068,"endTime":677.715,"body":"suppose. Um, it was when labour"},{"speaker":"Sarah Tomlinson","startTime":677.715,"endTime":678.96,"body":"came into power. Daniel Zeichner"},{"speaker":"Sarah Tomlinson","startTime":678.96,"endTime":680.639,"body":"said, right, I want to look at"},{"speaker":"Sarah Tomlinson","startTime":680.639,"endTime":682.12,"body":"this. I want to go into detail."},{"speaker":"Sarah Tomlinson","startTime":682.12,"endTime":683.843,"body":"So it has taken quite a long"},{"speaker":"Sarah Tomlinson","startTime":683.843,"endTime":685.585,"body":"time to get to this point. Um"},{"speaker":"Sarah Tomlinson","startTime":685.585,"endTime":687.709,"body":"but I think we needed to go to"},{"speaker":"Sarah Tomlinson","startTime":687.709,"endTime":689.547,"body":"that process. And if, if I'm"},{"speaker":"Sarah Tomlinson","startTime":689.547,"endTime":691.07,"body":"completely honest and I and I"},{"speaker":"Sarah Tomlinson","startTime":691.07,"endTime":692.192,"body":"don't know if APHA and"},{"speaker":"Sarah Tomlinson","startTime":692.192,"endTime":693.371,"body":"government and Defra will listen"},{"speaker":"Sarah Tomlinson","startTime":693.371,"endTime":694.925,"body":"to this, but I think it's been a"},{"speaker":"Sarah Tomlinson","startTime":694.925,"endTime":696.69,"body":"mindset shift in them as well,"},{"speaker":"Sarah Tomlinson","startTime":696.69,"endTime":698.719,"body":"that actually industry want to"},{"speaker":"Sarah Tomlinson","startTime":698.719,"endTime":700.44,"body":"help them deliver TB control."},{"speaker":"Sarah Tomlinson","startTime":700.44,"endTime":702.12,"body":"And they've got a lot of good"},{"speaker":"Sarah Tomlinson","startTime":702.12,"endTime":703.651,"body":"ideas. And one of the key"},{"speaker":"Sarah Tomlinson","startTime":703.651,"endTime":704.942,"body":"themes, again, is learning by"},{"speaker":"Sarah Tomlinson","startTime":704.942,"endTime":705.2,"body":"doing."},{"speaker":"Sarah Bolt","startTime":705.6,"endTime":706.192,"body":"That's really"},{"speaker":"Sarah Bolt","startTime":706.192,"endTime":707.987,"body":"positive, isn't it? Yeah. Really"},{"speaker":"Sarah Bolt","startTime":707.987,"endTime":708.44,"body":"positive."},{"speaker":"Sarah Tomlinson","startTime":708.279,"endTime":708.879,"body":"Yeah."},{"speaker":"Andrew Jones","startTime":708.96,"endTime":709.531,"body":"That's what I was"},{"speaker":"Andrew Jones","startTime":709.531,"endTime":710.667,"body":"going to say. That's a real"},{"speaker":"Andrew Jones","startTime":710.667,"endTime":711.98,"body":"positive though, that this time"},{"speaker":"Andrew Jones","startTime":711.98,"endTime":714.248,"body":"there have been on the ground"},{"speaker":"Andrew Jones","startTime":714.248,"endTime":715.651,"body":"grassroots farmers who are"},{"speaker":"Andrew Jones","startTime":715.651,"endTime":717.399,"body":"affected by this day to day and"},{"speaker":"Andrew Jones","startTime":717.399,"endTime":719.409,"body":"vets who are dealing with it to"},{"speaker":"Andrew Jones","startTime":719.409,"endTime":721.785,"body":"be able to contribute, to make"},{"speaker":"Andrew Jones","startTime":721.785,"endTime":723.89,"body":"some suggestions. Some of the"},{"speaker":"Andrew Jones","startTime":723.89,"endTime":725.509,"body":"solutions have some of the"},{"speaker":"Andrew Jones","startTime":725.509,"endTime":726.79,"body":"conversations in this, rather"},{"speaker":"Andrew Jones","startTime":726.79,"endTime":728.65,"body":"than just being told, this is"},{"speaker":"Andrew Jones","startTime":728.65,"endTime":730.2,"body":"what you're going to do."},{"speaker":"Sarah Bolt","startTime":730.48,"endTime":731.759,"body":"That top, that top"},{"speaker":"Sarah Bolt","startTime":731.759,"endTime":733.32,"body":"down approach is never, never"},{"speaker":"Sarah Bolt","startTime":733.32,"endTime":735.199,"body":"the best for actually getting"},{"speaker":"Sarah Bolt","startTime":735.199,"endTime":736.891,"body":"that getting that action plan at"},{"speaker":"Sarah Bolt","startTime":736.891,"endTime":738.732,"body":"the end of it. So the fact, as"},{"speaker":"Sarah Bolt","startTime":738.732,"endTime":740.372,"body":"you say, it's from the ground"},{"speaker":"Sarah Bolt","startTime":740.372,"endTime":742.419,"body":"upwards and includes everybody"},{"speaker":"Sarah Bolt","startTime":742.419,"endTime":743.919,"body":"within that."},{"speaker":"Sarah Tomlinson","startTime":744.159,"endTime":745.311,"body":"Yeah. And they"},{"speaker":"Sarah Tomlinson","startTime":745.311,"endTime":746.848,"body":"really recognise that the"},{"speaker":"Sarah Tomlinson","startTime":746.848,"endTime":748.696,"body":"industry has changed. You know,"},{"speaker":"Sarah Tomlinson","startTime":748.696,"endTime":751.48,"body":"in 2013/14 we didn't have the"},{"speaker":"Sarah Tomlinson","startTime":751.48,"endTime":753.668,"body":"dairy beef industry really. You"},{"speaker":"Sarah Tomlinson","startTime":753.668,"endTime":754.606,"body":"know, that's been a massive"},{"speaker":"Sarah Tomlinson","startTime":754.606,"endTime":755.919,"body":"shift with my other hat on with"},{"speaker":"Sarah Tomlinson","startTime":755.919,"endTime":757.6,"body":"the GB Calf Strategy, we've seen"},{"speaker":"Sarah Tomlinson","startTime":757.6,"endTime":759.0,"body":"a reduction in dairy bull"},{"speaker":"Sarah Tomlinson","startTime":759.0,"endTime":760.607,"body":"calves, but we've seen a massive"},{"speaker":"Sarah Tomlinson","startTime":760.607,"endTime":761.679,"body":"increase, seventy seven percent"},{"speaker":"Sarah Tomlinson","startTime":761.679,"endTime":763.813,"body":"increase in dairy beef"},{"speaker":"Sarah Tomlinson","startTime":763.813,"endTime":766.48,"body":"Registrations, and that is a"},{"speaker":"Sarah Tomlinson","startTime":766.48,"endTime":767.712,"body":"whole different supply chain"},{"speaker":"Sarah Tomlinson","startTime":767.712,"endTime":769.559,"body":"that didn't even exist when the"},{"speaker":"Sarah Tomlinson","startTime":769.559,"endTime":771.866,"body":"first 25-year strategy. So we"},{"speaker":"Sarah Tomlinson","startTime":771.866,"endTime":773.986,"body":"needed to recognize how do we"},{"speaker":"Sarah Tomlinson","startTime":773.986,"endTime":775.399,"body":"support those businesses that"},{"speaker":"Sarah Tomlinson","startTime":775.399,"endTime":777.848,"body":"are part of that supply chain,"},{"speaker":"Sarah Tomlinson","startTime":777.848,"endTime":779.48,"body":"different, um, priorities for"},{"speaker":"Sarah Tomlinson","startTime":779.48,"endTime":781.36,"body":"different dairy farms? You know,"},{"speaker":"Sarah Tomlinson","startTime":781.36,"endTime":784.019,"body":"some are going down the kind of"},{"speaker":"Sarah Tomlinson","startTime":784.019,"endTime":785.529,"body":"regen sustainability sort of,"},{"speaker":"Sarah Tomlinson","startTime":785.529,"endTime":787.779,"body":"um, that route and others are"},{"speaker":"Sarah Tomlinson","startTime":787.779,"endTime":790.179,"body":"going down the sort of, I, you"},{"speaker":"Sarah Tomlinson","startTime":790.179,"endTime":791.979,"body":"know, the other end of the"},{"speaker":"Sarah Tomlinson","startTime":791.979,"endTime":793.108,"body":"spectrum. Neither are right or"},{"speaker":"Sarah Tomlinson","startTime":793.108,"endTime":794.352,"body":"wrong, but we need to address"},{"speaker":"Sarah Tomlinson","startTime":794.352,"endTime":795.716,"body":"that. Those farms will manage"},{"speaker":"Sarah Tomlinson","startTime":795.716,"endTime":797.451,"body":"this disease in a very different"},{"speaker":"Sarah Tomlinson","startTime":797.451,"endTime":799.08,"body":"way and have different risks."},{"speaker":"Sarah Tomlinson","startTime":799.08,"endTime":801.576,"body":"You know, if you're housed 24/7,"},{"speaker":"Sarah Tomlinson","startTime":801.576,"endTime":803.08,"body":"that cattle to cattle risk is"},{"speaker":"Sarah Tomlinson","startTime":803.08,"endTime":804.72,"body":"probably greater than a badger"},{"speaker":"Sarah Tomlinson","startTime":804.72,"endTime":806.462,"body":"coming in. But if you're doing a"},{"speaker":"Sarah Tomlinson","startTime":806.462,"endTime":808.48,"body":"lot of grazing and grassland"},{"speaker":"Sarah Tomlinson","startTime":808.48,"endTime":810.2,"body":"management, there's maybe more"},{"speaker":"Sarah Tomlinson","startTime":810.2,"endTime":811.759,"body":"of a wildlife risk and neighbor"},{"speaker":"Sarah Tomlinson","startTime":811.759,"endTime":813.72,"body":"risk. Um, if you're flying herd,"},{"speaker":"Sarah Tomlinson","startTime":813.72,"endTime":814.639,"body":"there's more of a purchasing"},{"speaker":"Sarah Tomlinson","startTime":814.639,"endTime":817.107,"body":"risk. And that again, this is"},{"speaker":"Sarah Tomlinson","startTime":817.107,"endTime":818.44,"body":"what the strategy recognizes."},{"speaker":"Sarah Tomlinson","startTime":818.44,"endTime":819.912,"body":"It's allowing farmers and vets"},{"speaker":"Sarah Tomlinson","startTime":819.912,"endTime":821.679,"body":"to sit down, address what their"},{"speaker":"Sarah Tomlinson","startTime":821.679,"endTime":823.583,"body":"risks are and manage and make"},{"speaker":"Sarah Tomlinson","startTime":823.583,"endTime":825.169,"body":"decisions on how to control"},{"speaker":"Sarah Tomlinson","startTime":825.169,"endTime":827.169,"body":"disease at a local level, rather"},{"speaker":"Sarah Tomlinson","startTime":827.169,"endTime":829.169,"body":"than policy telling them how it"},{"speaker":"Sarah Tomlinson","startTime":829.169,"endTime":830.169,"body":"needs to happen."},{"speaker":"Sarah Bolt","startTime":830.009,"endTime":831.701,"body":"And that's so"},{"speaker":"Sarah Bolt","startTime":831.701,"endTime":835.085,"body":"important for, um, you know, um,"},{"speaker":"Sarah Bolt","startTime":835.085,"endTime":836.506,"body":"sustainability, whether that's"},{"speaker":"Sarah Bolt","startTime":836.506,"endTime":837.792,"body":"financial sustainability or"},{"speaker":"Sarah Bolt","startTime":837.792,"endTime":839.686,"body":"anything else that actually it"},{"speaker":"Sarah Bolt","startTime":839.686,"endTime":841.759,"body":"fits in with that farm strategy"},{"speaker":"Sarah Bolt","startTime":841.759,"endTime":843.626,"body":"that it's farm specific because"},{"speaker":"Sarah Bolt","startTime":843.626,"endTime":846.37,"body":"that's key to it all, isn't it?"},{"speaker":"Sarah Tomlinson","startTime":846.21,"endTime":846.725,"body":"Yeah. And"},{"speaker":"Sarah Tomlinson","startTime":846.725,"endTime":848.271,"body":"farmers don't deal with TB in"},{"speaker":"Sarah Tomlinson","startTime":848.271,"endTime":849.102,"body":"isolation. I think sometimes"},{"speaker":"Sarah Tomlinson","startTime":849.102,"endTime":850.247,"body":"we're a bit blinkered when we're"},{"speaker":"Sarah Tomlinson","startTime":850.247,"endTime":851.768,"body":"looking at TB policy that farms,"},{"speaker":"Sarah Tomlinson","startTime":851.768,"endTime":853.761,"body":"you know, think about TB all the"},{"speaker":"Sarah Tomlinson","startTime":853.761,"endTime":854.839,"body":"time and they're dealing with"},{"speaker":"Sarah Tomlinson","startTime":854.839,"endTime":855.97,"body":"it. Obviously when they're under"},{"speaker":"Sarah Tomlinson","startTime":855.97,"endTime":857.289,"body":"break down restrictions they"},{"speaker":"Sarah Tomlinson","startTime":857.289,"endTime":859.537,"body":"are. But um, they've also want"},{"speaker":"Sarah Tomlinson","startTime":859.537,"endTime":861.657,"body":"to put milk in the tank. They"},{"speaker":"Sarah Tomlinson","startTime":861.657,"endTime":863.38,"body":"want to get heifers reared to"},{"speaker":"Sarah Tomlinson","startTime":863.38,"endTime":865.389,"body":"sell or, you know, to, to, to"},{"speaker":"Sarah Tomlinson","startTime":865.389,"endTime":868.009,"body":"replace, to produce replacement."},{"speaker":"Sarah Tomlinson","startTime":868.009,"endTime":870.89,"body":"So we've got to TB has got to be"},{"speaker":"Sarah Tomlinson","startTime":870.89,"endTime":873.033,"body":"part of that every day. Herd"},{"speaker":"Sarah Tomlinson","startTime":873.033,"endTime":875.204,"body":"health management, but not"},{"speaker":"Sarah Tomlinson","startTime":875.204,"endTime":876.289,"body":"undermine it."},{"speaker":"Andrew Jones","startTime":876.529,"endTime":877.529,"body":"And dare I say it."},{"speaker":"Andrew Jones","startTime":877.529,"endTime":879.615,"body":"Yes. We've had this new document"},{"speaker":"Andrew Jones","startTime":879.615,"endTime":882.049,"body":"released in June as well, but TB"},{"speaker":"Andrew Jones","startTime":882.049,"endTime":883.75,"body":"has probably become a bit more"},{"speaker":"Andrew Jones","startTime":883.75,"endTime":885.45,"body":"prevalent in the public eye in"},{"speaker":"Andrew Jones","startTime":885.45,"endTime":887.513,"body":"the last month or two, simply"},{"speaker":"Andrew Jones","startTime":887.513,"endTime":889.865,"body":"because of Mr. Clarkson. And his"},{"speaker":"Andrew Jones","startTime":889.865,"endTime":892.32,"body":"reaction, let's be blunt, is the"},{"speaker":"Andrew Jones","startTime":892.32,"endTime":894.278,"body":"reaction you see time and time"},{"speaker":"Andrew Jones","startTime":894.278,"endTime":896.75,"body":"and time again on farm that, oh,"},{"speaker":"Andrew Jones","startTime":896.75,"endTime":898.209,"body":"they've killed my animal,"},{"speaker":"Andrew Jones","startTime":898.209,"endTime":899.37,"body":"there's nothing wrong with her."},{"speaker":"Andrew Jones","startTime":899.37,"endTime":901.89,"body":"But as we discussed in the last"},{"speaker":"Andrew Jones","startTime":901.89,"endTime":903.33,"body":"podcast, just because they"},{"speaker":"Andrew Jones","startTime":903.33,"endTime":904.784,"body":"weren't able to find anything"},{"speaker":"Andrew Jones","startTime":904.784,"endTime":906.529,"body":"doesn't mean she didn't have it,"},{"speaker":"Andrew Jones","startTime":906.529,"endTime":908.189,"body":"because it was probably too"},{"speaker":"Andrew Jones","startTime":908.189,"endTime":909.85,"body":"early a stage for detection."},{"speaker":"Andrew Jones","startTime":909.85,"endTime":911.049,"body":"When they're looking at a huge,"},{"speaker":"Andrew Jones","startTime":911.049,"endTime":913.929,"body":"great bag of lungs, it was so"},{"speaker":"Andrew Jones","startTime":913.929,"endTime":915.169,"body":"small that they couldn't find"},{"speaker":"Andrew Jones","startTime":915.169,"endTime":916.706,"body":"it. And this is and I know"},{"speaker":"Andrew Jones","startTime":916.706,"endTime":918.479,"body":"you've spent a bit of time"},{"speaker":"Andrew Jones","startTime":918.479,"endTime":920.326,"body":"recently again, trying to"},{"speaker":"Andrew Jones","startTime":920.326,"endTime":921.958,"body":"educate people on social media,"},{"speaker":"Andrew Jones","startTime":921.958,"endTime":923.469,"body":"and I know I've put a post up"},{"speaker":"Andrew Jones","startTime":923.469,"endTime":925.31,"body":"about it and that as well, but"},{"speaker":"Andrew Jones","startTime":925.31,"endTime":927.223,"body":"it's brought it more to the fore"},{"speaker":"Andrew Jones","startTime":927.223,"endTime":928.082,"body":"again, hasn't it? And"},{"speaker":"Andrew Jones","startTime":928.082,"endTime":930.194,"body":"rightfully, I think some of his"},{"speaker":"Andrew Jones","startTime":930.194,"endTime":931.709,"body":"comments were right. But in"},{"speaker":"Andrew Jones","startTime":931.709,"endTime":933.342,"body":"other words. But again, but it's"},{"speaker":"Andrew Jones","startTime":933.342,"endTime":934.783,"body":"good that again and the whole"},{"speaker":"Andrew Jones","startTime":934.783,"endTime":936.777,"body":"thing is he's brought farming to"},{"speaker":"Andrew Jones","startTime":936.777,"endTime":938.389,"body":"the public eye. And it's brought"},{"speaker":"Andrew Jones","startTime":938.389,"endTime":939.769,"body":"this to the public eye as well,"},{"speaker":"Andrew Jones","startTime":939.769,"endTime":942.469,"body":"which I think is good or bad,"},{"speaker":"Andrew Jones","startTime":942.469,"endTime":943.63,"body":"something will positive will"},{"speaker":"Andrew Jones","startTime":943.63,"endTime":944.889,"body":"come out of it."},{"speaker":"Sarah Tomlinson","startTime":944.809,"endTime":945.979,"body":"Yeah. And I do"},{"speaker":"Sarah Tomlinson","startTime":945.979,"endTime":948.043,"body":"think that is so important, um,"},{"speaker":"Sarah Tomlinson","startTime":948.043,"endTime":950.343,"body":"for farmers a to see other"},{"speaker":"Sarah Tomlinson","startTime":950.343,"endTime":952.023,"body":"people that it's not just them"},{"speaker":"Sarah Tomlinson","startTime":952.023,"endTime":954.114,"body":"that get upset and concerned and"},{"speaker":"Sarah Tomlinson","startTime":954.114,"endTime":956.393,"body":"I suppose have that mistrust of"},{"speaker":"Sarah Tomlinson","startTime":956.393,"endTime":958.952,"body":"what the system's doing. It"},{"speaker":"Sarah Tomlinson","startTime":958.952,"endTime":960.769,"body":"also, like you say, tells the"},{"speaker":"Sarah Tomlinson","startTime":960.769,"endTime":962.889,"body":"public what a TB test is, what"},{"speaker":"Sarah Tomlinson","startTime":962.889,"endTime":964.37,"body":"it means, because I think people"},{"speaker":"Sarah Tomlinson","startTime":964.37,"endTime":965.85,"body":"think, oh, it test, oh, it's"},{"speaker":"Sarah Tomlinson","startTime":965.85,"endTime":967.203,"body":"just a little blood sample or"},{"speaker":"Sarah Tomlinson","startTime":967.203,"endTime":968.682,"body":"it's like the Covid swab. And I"},{"speaker":"Sarah Tomlinson","startTime":968.682,"endTime":970.266,"body":"put it in a little pot and I run"},{"speaker":"Sarah Tomlinson","startTime":970.266,"endTime":972.134,"body":"it and it's done. So actually"},{"speaker":"Sarah Tomlinson","startTime":972.134,"endTime":974.463,"body":"just demonstrating the, the"},{"speaker":"Sarah Tomlinson","startTime":974.463,"endTime":976.546,"body":"hassle, the complexity of"},{"speaker":"Sarah Tomlinson","startTime":976.546,"endTime":978.562,"body":"getting all those animals in the"},{"speaker":"Sarah Tomlinson","startTime":978.562,"endTime":979.57,"body":"crush clipping, measuring,"},{"speaker":"Sarah Tomlinson","startTime":979.57,"endTime":982.265,"body":"jabbing, um, is brilliant. The"},{"speaker":"Sarah Tomlinson","startTime":982.265,"endTime":984.037,"body":"other thing that I again have"},{"speaker":"Sarah Tomlinson","startTime":984.037,"endTime":986.205,"body":"spoken out about is that in the"},{"speaker":"Sarah Tomlinson","startTime":986.205,"endTime":988.581,"body":"same episode, he talks about his"},{"speaker":"Sarah Tomlinson","startTime":988.581,"endTime":990.107,"body":"prostate cancer diagnosis. And"},{"speaker":"Sarah Tomlinson","startTime":990.107,"endTime":991.799,"body":"like I've just said, farmers"},{"speaker":"Sarah Tomlinson","startTime":991.799,"endTime":993.49,"body":"aren't just dealing with TB."},{"speaker":"Sarah Tomlinson","startTime":993.49,"endTime":994.73,"body":"They're dealing with life,"},{"speaker":"Sarah Tomlinson","startTime":994.73,"endTime":995.529,"body":"they're dealing with their"},{"speaker":"Sarah Tomlinson","startTime":995.529,"endTime":996.529,"body":"business, they're dealing with"},{"speaker":"Sarah Tomlinson","startTime":996.529,"endTime":999.495,"body":"family. And, and actually,"},{"speaker":"Sarah Tomlinson","startTime":999.495,"endTime":1001.66,"body":"anybody that is going on farm"},{"speaker":"Sarah Tomlinson","startTime":1001.66,"endTime":1003.359,"body":"talking to farmers needs to"},{"speaker":"Sarah Tomlinson","startTime":1003.359,"endTime":1005.555,"body":"understand that. And again, I"},{"speaker":"Sarah Tomlinson","startTime":1005.555,"endTime":1007.123,"body":"think those conversations were"},{"speaker":"Sarah Tomlinson","startTime":1007.123,"endTime":1009.355,"body":"had in these working groups with"},{"speaker":"Sarah Tomlinson","startTime":1009.355,"endTime":1011.848,"body":"APHA and Defra. So again, I"},{"speaker":"Sarah Tomlinson","startTime":1011.848,"endTime":1013.583,"body":"think part of the process has"},{"speaker":"Sarah Tomlinson","startTime":1013.583,"endTime":1015.069,"body":"been to support them to"},{"speaker":"Sarah Tomlinson","startTime":1015.069,"endTime":1017.044,"body":"understand how to deal with TB"},{"speaker":"Sarah Tomlinson","startTime":1017.044,"endTime":1019.019,"body":"on farm better and be just"},{"speaker":"Sarah Tomlinson","startTime":1019.019,"endTime":1021.564,"body":"better at communicating. And one"},{"speaker":"Sarah Tomlinson","startTime":1021.564,"endTime":1024.038,"body":"of the um APHA staff said"},{"speaker":"Sarah Tomlinson","startTime":1024.038,"endTime":1026.099,"body":"recently, we need to change"},{"speaker":"Sarah Tomlinson","startTime":1026.099,"endTime":1029.344,"body":"those beep letters because the"},{"speaker":"Sarah Tomlinson","startTime":1029.344,"endTime":1031.94,"body":"letter doesn't explain that."},{"speaker":"Sarah Tomlinson","startTime":1031.94,"endTime":1033.279,"body":"Actually, we're very sorry to"},{"speaker":"Sarah Tomlinson","startTime":1033.279,"endTime":1034.66,"body":"say your animal was infected"},{"speaker":"Sarah Tomlinson","startTime":1034.66,"endTime":1037.082,"body":"with TB. The good news is it"},{"speaker":"Sarah Tomlinson","startTime":1037.082,"endTime":1038.187,"body":"wasn't heavily infected enough"},{"speaker":"Sarah Tomlinson","startTime":1038.187,"endTime":1040.276,"body":"for us to find disease at"},{"speaker":"Sarah Tomlinson","startTime":1040.276,"endTime":1042.37,"body":"slaughter. You know, it's"},{"speaker":"Sarah Tomlinson","startTime":1042.37,"endTime":1044.447,"body":"language. That's what it is. And"},{"speaker":"Sarah Tomlinson","startTime":1044.447,"endTime":1046.29,"body":"but again, I do think the"},{"speaker":"Sarah Tomlinson","startTime":1046.29,"endTime":1047.519,"body":"barrier is it's because"},{"speaker":"Sarah Tomlinson","startTime":1047.519,"endTime":1049.171,"body":"government are coming to tell us"},{"speaker":"Sarah Tomlinson","startTime":1049.171,"endTime":1051.099,"body":"what to do, when to test, and"},{"speaker":"Sarah Tomlinson","startTime":1051.099,"endTime":1052.804,"body":"what we do with our business"},{"speaker":"Sarah Tomlinson","startTime":1052.804,"endTime":1054.28,"body":"when we find infection. Whereas"},{"speaker":"Sarah Tomlinson","startTime":1054.28,"endTime":1055.563,"body":"any other infectious disease,"},{"speaker":"Sarah Tomlinson","startTime":1055.563,"endTime":1057.11,"body":"it's between the vet and the"},{"speaker":"Sarah Tomlinson","startTime":1057.11,"endTime":1058.715,"body":"farmer, which is why in this"},{"speaker":"Sarah Tomlinson","startTime":1058.715,"endTime":1060.464,"body":"strategy, it clearly talks about"},{"speaker":"Sarah Tomlinson","startTime":1060.464,"endTime":1061.91,"body":"that farmer and vet relationship"},{"speaker":"Sarah Tomlinson","startTime":1061.91,"endTime":1064.479,"body":"leading how we control TB at a"},{"speaker":"Sarah Tomlinson","startTime":1064.479,"endTime":1066.02,"body":"farm level, which I think is"},{"speaker":"Sarah Tomlinson","startTime":1066.02,"endTime":1067.18,"body":"really powerful government."},{"speaker":"Andrew Jones","startTime":1066.98,"endTime":1067.655,"body":"It's just purely"},{"speaker":"Andrew Jones","startTime":1067.655,"endTime":1068.779,"body":"black and white, isn't it?"},{"speaker":"Andrew Jones","startTime":1068.779,"endTime":1070.465,"body":"Rather than, as you say,"},{"speaker":"Andrew Jones","startTime":1070.465,"endTime":1071.775,"body":"bringing in. I know it's"},{"speaker":"Andrew Jones","startTime":1071.775,"endTime":1072.833,"body":"something we talked about when"},{"speaker":"Andrew Jones","startTime":1072.833,"endTime":1074.483,"body":"we last spoke about TB is"},{"speaker":"Andrew Jones","startTime":1074.483,"endTime":1076.492,"body":"bringing in the emotional effect"},{"speaker":"Andrew Jones","startTime":1076.492,"endTime":1080.019,"body":"it has on farm. And, you know,"},{"speaker":"Andrew Jones","startTime":1080.019,"endTime":1081.899,"body":"people don't we've spoken about"},{"speaker":"Andrew Jones","startTime":1081.899,"endTime":1083.003,"body":"it and I don't want to talk"},{"speaker":"Andrew Jones","startTime":1083.003,"endTime":1084.135,"body":"about it too much, really. But,"},{"speaker":"Andrew Jones","startTime":1084.135,"endTime":1085.518,"body":"you know, people don't realize"},{"speaker":"Andrew Jones","startTime":1085.518,"endTime":1087.264,"body":"if they're not on farm, the"},{"speaker":"Andrew Jones","startTime":1087.264,"endTime":1089.082,"body":"emotional effect it has, you"},{"speaker":"Andrew Jones","startTime":1089.082,"endTime":1091.202,"body":"lose some cattle to TB. You"},{"speaker":"Andrew Jones","startTime":1091.202,"endTime":1092.711,"body":"know, there's there's years of"},{"speaker":"Andrew Jones","startTime":1092.711,"endTime":1094.388,"body":"work, a lifetime of work. Maybe"},{"speaker":"Andrew Jones","startTime":1094.388,"endTime":1095.76,"body":"if you've lost a particular cow"},{"speaker":"Andrew Jones","startTime":1095.76,"endTime":1097.443,"body":"family that you've put in to"},{"speaker":"Andrew Jones","startTime":1097.443,"endTime":1099.368,"body":"getting to that point. And"},{"speaker":"Andrew Jones","startTime":1099.368,"endTime":1100.119,"body":"people just think, oh,"},{"speaker":"Andrew Jones","startTime":1100.119,"endTime":1101.019,"body":"sometimes, you know, if you're"},{"speaker":"Andrew Jones","startTime":1101.019,"endTime":1102.22,"body":"not on farm, oh, it's just a"},{"speaker":"Andrew Jones","startTime":1102.22,"endTime":1104.339,"body":"cow. But it's not just a cow."},{"speaker":"Andrew Jones","startTime":1104.339,"endTime":1105.74,"body":"It's, it's everything that"},{"speaker":"Andrew Jones","startTime":1105.74,"endTime":1108.18,"body":"you've invested till that point"},{"speaker":"Andrew Jones","startTime":1108.18,"endTime":1111.38,"body":"in time. And people were then"},{"speaker":"Andrew Jones","startTime":1111.38,"endTime":1112.84,"body":"outside the industry sometimes"},{"speaker":"Andrew Jones","startTime":1112.84,"endTime":1114.14,"body":"don't see that."},{"speaker":"Sarah Tomlinson","startTime":1114.66,"endTime":1115.34,"body":"So shall I"},{"speaker":"Sarah Tomlinson","startTime":1115.34,"endTime":1116.426,"body":"share that WhatsApp message that"},{"speaker":"Sarah Tomlinson","startTime":1116.426,"endTime":1117.779,"body":"I shared with you yesterday."},{"speaker":"Sarah Tomlinson","startTime":1117.779,"endTime":1118.46,"body":"Sarah."},{"speaker":"Sarah Bolt","startTime":1118.539,"endTime":1119.947,"body":"Sarah please do I"},{"speaker":"Sarah Bolt","startTime":1119.947,"endTime":1122.277,"body":"it. It actually brought a slight"},{"speaker":"Sarah Bolt","startTime":1122.277,"endTime":1125.12,"body":"tear to my eye. It's it's it"},{"speaker":"Sarah Bolt","startTime":1125.12,"endTime":1127.34,"body":"brings an emotion. So we'll try"},{"speaker":"Sarah Bolt","startTime":1127.34,"endTime":1129.579,"body":"it and I'll I'll try and be."},{"speaker":"Sarah Bolt","startTime":1129.579,"endTime":1131.157,"body":"I'll try and be stronger this"},{"speaker":"Sarah Bolt","startTime":1131.157,"endTime":1131.42,"body":"time."},{"speaker":"Sarah Tomlinson","startTime":1132.339,"endTime":1133.265,"body":"I obviously do"},{"speaker":"Sarah Tomlinson","startTime":1133.265,"endTime":1135.206,"body":"the TB advisory service. We have"},{"speaker":"Sarah Tomlinson","startTime":1135.206,"endTime":1136.939,"body":"a telephone advice line. And"},{"speaker":"Sarah Tomlinson","startTime":1136.939,"endTime":1138.52,"body":"quite often farmers ring because"},{"speaker":"Sarah Tomlinson","startTime":1138.52,"endTime":1140.7,"body":"they are quite angry and quite"},{"speaker":"Sarah Tomlinson","startTime":1140.7,"endTime":1142.779,"body":"upset. And I'm not a trained"},{"speaker":"Sarah Tomlinson","startTime":1142.779,"endTime":1144.482,"body":"counselor. What I do is I talk"},{"speaker":"Sarah Tomlinson","startTime":1144.482,"endTime":1145.906,"body":"them through the tests and what"},{"speaker":"Sarah Tomlinson","startTime":1145.906,"endTime":1147.5,"body":"those results mean and where"},{"speaker":"Sarah Tomlinson","startTime":1147.5,"endTime":1149.367,"body":"their infection might have come"},{"speaker":"Sarah Tomlinson","startTime":1149.367,"endTime":1153.368,"body":"from. And, um, I got this"},{"speaker":"Sarah Tomlinson","startTime":1153.368,"endTime":1156.442,"body":"message and Stuart, and he has"},{"speaker":"Sarah Tomlinson","startTime":1156.442,"endTime":1158.459,"body":"allowed me to tell people that I"},{"speaker":"Sarah Tomlinson","startTime":1158.459,"endTime":1159.953,"body":"can share this message if it"},{"speaker":"Sarah Tomlinson","startTime":1159.953,"endTime":1162.067,"body":"helps other people. He said,"},{"speaker":"Sarah Tomlinson","startTime":1162.067,"endTime":1163.234,"body":"good morning, Sarah. And I won't"},{"speaker":"Sarah Tomlinson","startTime":1163.234,"endTime":1164.479,"body":"be able to say it with my voice"},{"speaker":"Sarah Tomlinson","startTime":1164.479,"endTime":1165.974,"body":"without my voice wobbling. I"},{"speaker":"Sarah Tomlinson","startTime":1165.974,"endTime":1167.144,"body":"hope you and your family are"},{"speaker":"Sarah Tomlinson","startTime":1167.144,"endTime":1168.684,"body":"well. Just to let you know,"},{"speaker":"Sarah Tomlinson","startTime":1168.684,"endTime":1170.299,"body":"we've had another clear TB test."},{"speaker":"Sarah Tomlinson","startTime":1170.299,"endTime":1171.66,"body":"I cannot begin to thank you"},{"speaker":"Sarah Tomlinson","startTime":1171.66,"endTime":1172.539,"body":"enough for the help and"},{"speaker":"Sarah Tomlinson","startTime":1172.539,"endTime":1174.059,"body":"positivity you gave me in the"},{"speaker":"Sarah Tomlinson","startTime":1174.059,"endTime":1176.382,"body":"dark times. Without help, my"},{"speaker":"Sarah Tomlinson","startTime":1176.382,"endTime":1178.549,"body":"wife would not have a husband."},{"speaker":"Sarah Tomlinson","startTime":1178.549,"endTime":1180.433,"body":"My two boys would not have a"},{"speaker":"Sarah Tomlinson","startTime":1180.433,"endTime":1181.509,"body":"father and my grandchildren"},{"speaker":"Sarah Tomlinson","startTime":1181.509,"endTime":1183.33,"body":"would not have a granddad. Many"},{"speaker":"Sarah Tomlinson","startTime":1183.33,"endTime":1187.458,"body":"thanks. You know, that's the"},{"speaker":"Sarah Tomlinson","startTime":1187.458,"endTime":1189.183,"body":"reality of what TB does to"},{"speaker":"Sarah Tomlinson","startTime":1189.183,"endTime":1191.015,"body":"people. And that's why we need"},{"speaker":"Sarah Tomlinson","startTime":1191.015,"endTime":1192.56,"body":"to get behind anything that"},{"speaker":"Sarah Tomlinson","startTime":1192.56,"endTime":1194.38,"body":"might change and reduce the"},{"speaker":"Sarah Tomlinson","startTime":1194.38,"endTime":1196.808,"body":"level of TB we have. Um, and"},{"speaker":"Sarah Tomlinson","startTime":1196.808,"endTime":1198.693,"body":"that's why I do what I do,"},{"speaker":"Sarah Tomlinson","startTime":1198.693,"endTime":1200.779,"body":"because I hope I'm making a real"},{"speaker":"Sarah Tomlinson","startTime":1200.779,"endTime":1202.643,"body":"difference to people. Um, you"},{"speaker":"Sarah Tomlinson","startTime":1202.643,"endTime":1203.43,"body":"know. Yes."},{"speaker":"Sarah Bolt","startTime":1203.269,"endTime":1204.344,"body":"It shows, it shows"},{"speaker":"Sarah Bolt","startTime":1204.344,"endTime":1206.361,"body":"that you are. And I think that"},{"speaker":"Sarah Bolt","startTime":1206.361,"endTime":1208.679,"body":"for, for that farmer to share"},{"speaker":"Sarah Bolt","startTime":1208.679,"endTime":1210.829,"body":"that is, is absolutely amazing."},{"speaker":"Sarah Bolt","startTime":1210.829,"endTime":1212.01,"body":"And it didn't manage to not"},{"speaker":"Sarah Bolt","startTime":1212.01,"endTime":1213.936,"body":"bring a tear to my eye. I was, I"},{"speaker":"Sarah Bolt","startTime":1213.936,"endTime":1215.656,"body":"knew what was coming and it"},{"speaker":"Sarah Bolt","startTime":1215.656,"endTime":1218.15,"body":"still didn't, I still couldn't."},{"speaker":"Sarah Bolt","startTime":1218.15,"endTime":1219.47,"body":"And Andre."},{"speaker":"Andrew Jones","startTime":1219.349,"endTime":1220.549,"body":"I say, can I admit"},{"speaker":"Andrew Jones","startTime":1220.549,"endTime":1223.063,"body":"it has. That is a very powerful"},{"speaker":"Andrew Jones","startTime":1223.063,"endTime":1225.613,"body":"message. Um, I was not expecting"},{"speaker":"Andrew Jones","startTime":1225.613,"endTime":1227.283,"body":"that response. I know you sort"},{"speaker":"Andrew Jones","startTime":1227.283,"endTime":1228.707,"body":"of said what was coming, but I"},{"speaker":"Andrew Jones","startTime":1228.707,"endTime":1230.742,"body":"wasn't. I didn't know what was"},{"speaker":"Andrew Jones","startTime":1230.742,"endTime":1232.642,"body":"coming. Um, but that actually is"},{"speaker":"Andrew Jones","startTime":1232.642,"endTime":1233.869,"body":"a very powerful message."},{"speaker":"Sarah Tomlinson","startTime":1233.789,"endTime":1235.183,"body":"Yeah. And, and,"},{"speaker":"Sarah Tomlinson","startTime":1235.183,"endTime":1237.971,"body":"and I think that that that"},{"speaker":"Sarah Tomlinson","startTime":1237.971,"endTime":1240.438,"body":"discussion that was at the heart"},{"speaker":"Sarah Tomlinson","startTime":1240.438,"endTime":1242.875,"body":"of and it talks about it in the"},{"speaker":"Sarah Tomlinson","startTime":1242.875,"endTime":1244.749,"body":"document about the impact that"},{"speaker":"Sarah Tomlinson","startTime":1244.749,"endTime":1248.109,"body":"TB has on people on on families,"},{"speaker":"Sarah Tomlinson","startTime":1248.109,"endTime":1250.398,"body":"on livelihoods. And. And I think"},{"speaker":"Sarah Tomlinson","startTime":1250.398,"endTime":1252.097,"body":"that, again, I don't think that"},{"speaker":"Sarah Tomlinson","startTime":1252.097,"endTime":1253.563,"body":"has been talked about in"},{"speaker":"Sarah Tomlinson","startTime":1253.563,"endTime":1255.07,"body":"previous strategies. It has been"},{"speaker":"Sarah Tomlinson","startTime":1255.07,"endTime":1257.097,"body":"very black and white. Um, and,"},{"speaker":"Sarah Tomlinson","startTime":1257.097,"endTime":1259.817,"body":"and allowing farmers to, to be"},{"speaker":"Sarah Tomlinson","startTime":1259.817,"endTime":1262.49,"body":"able to share that. And I know"},{"speaker":"Sarah Tomlinson","startTime":1262.49,"endTime":1263.923,"body":"you'll probably put links to"},{"speaker":"Sarah Tomlinson","startTime":1263.923,"endTime":1265.273,"body":"where there is support and"},{"speaker":"Sarah Tomlinson","startTime":1265.273,"endTime":1266.494,"body":"things like that, but he's, he's"},{"speaker":"Sarah Tomlinson","startTime":1266.494,"endTime":1268.089,"body":"not on his own. I have quite a"},{"speaker":"Sarah Tomlinson","startTime":1268.089,"endTime":1269.486,"body":"few of my regulars. I call them"},{"speaker":"Sarah Tomlinson","startTime":1269.486,"endTime":1270.802,"body":"that now and again, just touch"},{"speaker":"Sarah Tomlinson","startTime":1270.802,"endTime":1272.609,"body":"base and say, you know, we've"},{"speaker":"Sarah Tomlinson","startTime":1272.609,"endTime":1274.88,"body":"gone clear and um, and in fact,"},{"speaker":"Sarah Tomlinson","startTime":1274.88,"endTime":1276.13,"body":"there was another farmer who I"},{"speaker":"Sarah Tomlinson","startTime":1276.13,"endTime":1278.19,"body":"spoke to from Scotland who said,"},{"speaker":"Sarah Tomlinson","startTime":1278.19,"endTime":1280.326,"body":"I recognise your voice. Have you"},{"speaker":"Sarah Tomlinson","startTime":1280.326,"endTime":1282.589,"body":"done a podcast? And he had used"},{"speaker":"Sarah Tomlinson","startTime":1282.589,"endTime":1284.51,"body":"some of the advice that we'd"},{"speaker":"Sarah Tomlinson","startTime":1284.51,"endTime":1287.03,"body":"said in that about using IB TB,"},{"speaker":"Sarah Tomlinson","startTime":1287.03,"endTime":1289.37,"body":"about where to buy cattle from"},{"speaker":"Sarah Tomlinson","startTime":1289.37,"endTime":1292.749,"body":"in England. Um so, so yeah, you"},{"speaker":"Sarah Tomlinson","startTime":1292.749,"endTime":1295.377,"body":"know, if one person can listen"},{"speaker":"Sarah Tomlinson","startTime":1295.377,"endTime":1296.529,"body":"to something, learn something"},{"speaker":"Sarah Tomlinson","startTime":1296.529,"endTime":1298.358,"body":"and pass that on to the next"},{"speaker":"Sarah Tomlinson","startTime":1298.358,"endTime":1299.669,"body":"person, that's that's where we"},{"speaker":"Sarah Tomlinson","startTime":1299.669,"endTime":1301.109,"body":"will change the mindset."},{"speaker":"Sarah Bolt","startTime":1300.91,"endTime":1302.19,"body":"And that's impact."},{"speaker":"Sarah Bolt","startTime":1302.19,"endTime":1303.749,"body":"That's impact. It's one of your"},{"speaker":"Sarah Bolt","startTime":1303.749,"endTime":1304.95,"body":"one of your buzzwords. Sarah."},{"speaker":"Sarah Bolt","startTime":1304.95,"endTime":1307.278,"body":"But that is impact. And that's"},{"speaker":"Sarah Bolt","startTime":1307.278,"endTime":1309.1,"body":"what, that's what you've brought"},{"speaker":"Sarah Bolt","startTime":1309.1,"endTime":1311.91,"body":"to TB. And that's what it's."},{"speaker":"Sarah Tomlinson","startTime":1311.71,"endTime":1312.395,"body":"It's a team,"},{"speaker":"Sarah Tomlinson","startTime":1312.395,"endTime":1313.909,"body":"it's a team effort. And, and"},{"speaker":"Sarah Tomlinson","startTime":1313.909,"endTime":1315.41,"body":"actually, we've trained an awful"},{"speaker":"Sarah Tomlinson","startTime":1315.41,"endTime":1317.848,"body":"lot of vets now through the TB"},{"speaker":"Sarah Tomlinson","startTime":1317.848,"endTime":1320.193,"body":"advisory service to be empowered"},{"speaker":"Sarah Tomlinson","startTime":1320.193,"endTime":1322.517,"body":"to offer that service, I think,"},{"speaker":"Sarah Tomlinson","startTime":1322.517,"endTime":1324.078,"body":"to their clients. And TB is"},{"speaker":"Sarah Tomlinson","startTime":1324.078,"endTime":1325.558,"body":"something that they should get"},{"speaker":"Sarah Tomlinson","startTime":1325.558,"endTime":1326.75,"body":"involved in. Yeah."},{"speaker":"Andrew Jones","startTime":1326.869,"endTime":1327.349,"body":"And like you're"},{"speaker":"Andrew Jones","startTime":1327.349,"endTime":1328.293,"body":"saying with the podcast, it's"},{"speaker":"Andrew Jones","startTime":1328.293,"endTime":1329.59,"body":"always been the aim of this"},{"speaker":"Andrew Jones","startTime":1329.59,"endTime":1330.822,"body":"podcast is to make people think"},{"speaker":"Andrew Jones","startTime":1330.822,"endTime":1331.982,"body":"about what they're doing and"},{"speaker":"Andrew Jones","startTime":1331.982,"endTime":1333.214,"body":"just make that difference for"},{"speaker":"Andrew Jones","startTime":1333.214,"endTime":1335.029,"body":"someone to think differently."},{"speaker":"Andrew Jones","startTime":1335.029,"endTime":1338.57,"body":"Happy days. But moving on. Then"},{"speaker":"Andrew Jones","startTime":1338.57,"endTime":1340.47,"body":"it's fifty five page document."},{"speaker":"Andrew Jones","startTime":1340.47,"endTime":1342.648,"body":"We'll before we break it down,"},{"speaker":"Andrew Jones","startTime":1342.648,"endTime":1345.19,"body":"how has it been received so far"},{"speaker":"Andrew Jones","startTime":1345.19,"endTime":1346.269,"body":"in the industry?"},{"speaker":"Sarah Tomlinson","startTime":1346.39,"endTime":1347.19,"body":"So I think some"},{"speaker":"Sarah Tomlinson","startTime":1347.19,"endTime":1348.39,"body":"of the vets have come along"},{"speaker":"Sarah Tomlinson","startTime":1348.39,"endTime":1350.366,"body":"going, oh my goodness, we can do"},{"speaker":"Sarah Tomlinson","startTime":1350.366,"endTime":1352.225,"body":"anything. Um, and I'm really"},{"speaker":"Sarah Tomlinson","startTime":1352.225,"endTime":1353.361,"body":"pleased, especially those"},{"speaker":"Sarah Tomlinson","startTime":1353.361,"endTime":1355.306,"body":"farmers and vets that have"},{"speaker":"Sarah Tomlinson","startTime":1355.306,"endTime":1357.284,"body":"desperately wanted to do these"},{"speaker":"Sarah Tomlinson","startTime":1357.284,"endTime":1359.262,"body":"more sensitive tests on their"},{"speaker":"Sarah Tomlinson","startTime":1359.262,"endTime":1360.844,"body":"farm, the non-statutory ones,"},{"speaker":"Sarah Tomlinson","startTime":1360.844,"endTime":1362.64,"body":"because they know they've got TB"},{"speaker":"Sarah Tomlinson","startTime":1362.64,"endTime":1364.319,"body":"in their cattle herd, just like"},{"speaker":"Sarah Tomlinson","startTime":1364.319,"endTime":1366.246,"body":"they might have a Johne's's"},{"speaker":"Sarah Tomlinson","startTime":1366.246,"endTime":1368.559,"body":"prevalence, and they want to do"},{"speaker":"Sarah Tomlinson","startTime":1368.559,"endTime":1370.839,"body":"the right thing. And as we"},{"speaker":"Sarah Tomlinson","startTime":1370.839,"endTime":1371.973,"body":"talked about in the last"},{"speaker":"Sarah Tomlinson","startTime":1371.973,"endTime":1375.027,"body":"podcast, we did, if you have a"},{"speaker":"Sarah Tomlinson","startTime":1375.027,"endTime":1376.52,"body":"test positive animal on your"},{"speaker":"Sarah Tomlinson","startTime":1376.52,"endTime":1378.759,"body":"farm, it's a notifiable disease."},{"speaker":"Sarah Tomlinson","startTime":1378.759,"endTime":1380.264,"body":"That animal needs to be culled"},{"speaker":"Sarah Tomlinson","startTime":1380.264,"endTime":1381.519,"body":"within ten working days, the"},{"speaker":"Sarah Tomlinson","startTime":1381.519,"endTime":1382.789,"body":"farm gets put under movement"},{"speaker":"Sarah Tomlinson","startTime":1382.789,"endTime":1384.059,"body":"restrictions and the sixty day"},{"speaker":"Sarah Tomlinson","startTime":1384.059,"endTime":1386.34,"body":"skin testing starts. So why"},{"speaker":"Sarah Tomlinson","startTime":1386.34,"endTime":1388.32,"body":"would you voluntarily do that if"},{"speaker":"Sarah Tomlinson","startTime":1388.32,"endTime":1390.328,"body":"you don't have to? Whereas one"},{"speaker":"Sarah Tomlinson","startTime":1390.328,"endTime":1392.391,"body":"of the massive things in the"},{"speaker":"Sarah Tomlinson","startTime":1392.391,"endTime":1393.894,"body":"strategy is allowing farmers,"},{"speaker":"Sarah Tomlinson","startTime":1393.894,"endTime":1396.337,"body":"even if they are officially TB,"},{"speaker":"Sarah Tomlinson","startTime":1396.337,"endTime":1398.559,"body":"free, to use these more"},{"speaker":"Sarah Tomlinson","startTime":1398.559,"endTime":1399.559,"body":"sensitive, non-statutory"},{"speaker":"Sarah Tomlinson","startTime":1399.559,"endTime":1401.539,"body":"ancillary tests, they call them"},{"speaker":"Sarah Tomlinson","startTime":1401.539,"endTime":1403.092,"body":"in the document. But those"},{"speaker":"Sarah Tomlinson","startTime":1403.092,"endTime":1405.1,"body":"animals do not have to be culled"},{"speaker":"Sarah Tomlinson","startTime":1405.1,"endTime":1406.622,"body":"immediately so they can finish"},{"speaker":"Sarah Tomlinson","startTime":1406.622,"endTime":1408.276,"body":"their lactation rear their calf"},{"speaker":"Sarah Tomlinson","startTime":1408.276,"endTime":1411.519,"body":"on a suckler herd. Um, And they"},{"speaker":"Sarah Tomlinson","startTime":1411.519,"endTime":1413.439,"body":"don't cause movement"},{"speaker":"Sarah Tomlinson","startTime":1413.439,"endTime":1415.679,"body":"restrictions. So there's no and"},{"speaker":"Sarah Tomlinson","startTime":1415.679,"endTime":1417.679,"body":"there's no compulsory sixty day"},{"speaker":"Sarah Tomlinson","startTime":1417.679,"endTime":1419.36,"body":"testing. Because if the farmer"},{"speaker":"Sarah Tomlinson","startTime":1419.36,"endTime":1420.639,"body":"hadn't done that, we wouldn't"},{"speaker":"Sarah Tomlinson","startTime":1420.639,"endTime":1422.111,"body":"know they were there anyway, and"},{"speaker":"Sarah Tomlinson","startTime":1422.111,"endTime":1423.72,"body":"they would be trading and they"},{"speaker":"Sarah Tomlinson","startTime":1423.72,"endTime":1425.019,"body":"wouldn't have to do sixty day"},{"speaker":"Sarah Tomlinson","startTime":1425.019,"endTime":1427.903,"body":"testing. And we almost already"},{"speaker":"Sarah Tomlinson","startTime":1427.903,"endTime":1430.184,"body":"have a precedent with resolved"},{"speaker":"Sarah Tomlinson","startTime":1430.184,"endTime":1432.174,"body":"IRS. So an inconclusive reactor,"},{"speaker":"Sarah Tomlinson","startTime":1432.174,"endTime":1434.475,"body":"if it tests clear sixty days"},{"speaker":"Sarah Tomlinson","startTime":1434.475,"endTime":1436.767,"body":"later in the high risk and edge"},{"speaker":"Sarah Tomlinson","startTime":1436.767,"endTime":1438.624,"body":"area, can't be traded. It has to"},{"speaker":"Sarah Tomlinson","startTime":1438.624,"endTime":1440.194,"body":"remain on farm for life. But it"},{"speaker":"Sarah Tomlinson","startTime":1440.194,"endTime":1441.68,"body":"doesn't have to be cold."},{"speaker":"Andrew Jones","startTime":1441.72,"endTime":1442.703,"body":"So it can be"},{"speaker":"Andrew Jones","startTime":1442.703,"endTime":1444.7,"body":"managed out the herd rather than"},{"speaker":"Andrew Jones","startTime":1444.7,"endTime":1446.319,"body":"forced out the herd."},{"speaker":"Sarah Tomlinson","startTime":1446.16,"endTime":1447.311,"body":"Yeah. And and"},{"speaker":"Sarah Tomlinson","startTime":1447.311,"endTime":1448.575,"body":"alongside that, hopefully with"},{"speaker":"Sarah Tomlinson","startTime":1448.575,"endTime":1449.895,"body":"your vet, you talk about"},{"speaker":"Sarah Tomlinson","startTime":1449.895,"endTime":1451.263,"body":"managing the risk that animal"},{"speaker":"Sarah Tomlinson","startTime":1451.263,"endTime":1453.56,"body":"might pose to others. So you"},{"speaker":"Sarah Tomlinson","startTime":1453.56,"endTime":1455.32,"body":"have separate calving pens,"},{"speaker":"Sarah Tomlinson","startTime":1455.32,"endTime":1456.592,"body":"potentially artificial colostrum"},{"speaker":"Sarah Tomlinson","startTime":1456.592,"endTime":1458.554,"body":"or pasteurised colostrum to stop"},{"speaker":"Sarah Tomlinson","startTime":1458.554,"endTime":1460.483,"body":"it, um, reducing the risk of"},{"speaker":"Sarah Tomlinson","startTime":1460.483,"endTime":1462.2,"body":"passing it on to its daughter."},{"speaker":"Sarah Tomlinson","startTime":1462.2,"endTime":1465.48,"body":"Um, so everybody I think is very"},{"speaker":"Sarah Tomlinson","startTime":1465.48,"endTime":1466.77,"body":"comfortable talking about"},{"speaker":"Sarah Tomlinson","startTime":1466.77,"endTime":1468.213,"body":"Johne's's management. Johne's's"},{"speaker":"Sarah Tomlinson","startTime":1468.213,"endTime":1470.48,"body":"and TB are both Mycobacterium."},{"speaker":"Sarah Tomlinson","startTime":1470.48,"endTime":1473.039,"body":"So all of those, um, control"},{"speaker":"Sarah Tomlinson","startTime":1473.039,"endTime":1474.44,"body":"measures we use for Johne's's"},{"speaker":"Sarah Tomlinson","startTime":1474.44,"endTime":1476.444,"body":"can absolutely be transferred"},{"speaker":"Sarah Tomlinson","startTime":1476.444,"endTime":1478.079,"body":"onto onto TB."},{"speaker":"Sarah Bolt","startTime":1479.0,"endTime":1480.618,"body":"And as you say, that"},{"speaker":"Sarah Bolt","startTime":1480.618,"endTime":1481.912,"body":"gives such flexibility for"},{"speaker":"Sarah Bolt","startTime":1481.912,"endTime":1483.53,"body":"farmers and their vets working"},{"speaker":"Sarah Bolt","startTime":1483.53,"endTime":1485.148,"body":"together to, to manage that"},{"speaker":"Sarah Bolt","startTime":1485.148,"endTime":1487.666,"body":"disease on farm without those"},{"speaker":"Sarah Bolt","startTime":1487.666,"endTime":1488.44,"body":"penalties."},{"speaker":"Sarah Tomlinson","startTime":1488.279,"endTime":1488.92,"body":"Yeah."},{"speaker":"Andrew Jones","startTime":1489.079,"endTime":1489.928,"body":"And I'm going to"},{"speaker":"Andrew Jones","startTime":1489.928,"endTime":1491.414,"body":"say it's a blatant plug, but if"},{"speaker":"Andrew Jones","startTime":1491.414,"endTime":1492.946,"body":"you haven't listened to the one"},{"speaker":"Andrew Jones","startTime":1492.946,"endTime":1495.413,"body":"that Sarah did in March 2025, I"},{"speaker":"Andrew Jones","startTime":1495.413,"endTime":1496.68,"body":"would highly recommend you go"},{"speaker":"Andrew Jones","startTime":1496.68,"endTime":1498.2,"body":"back to listen to that one,"},{"speaker":"Andrew Jones","startTime":1498.2,"endTime":1499.399,"body":"because it's important for some"},{"speaker":"Andrew Jones","startTime":1499.399,"endTime":1501.014,"body":"of the things we speak. What"},{"speaker":"Andrew Jones","startTime":1501.014,"endTime":1503.087,"body":"she's talking about today are"},{"speaker":"Andrew Jones","startTime":1503.087,"endTime":1505.57,"body":"refer back to that podcast. So"},{"speaker":"Andrew Jones","startTime":1505.57,"endTime":1508.03,"body":"it's a good reference point to"},{"speaker":"Andrew Jones","startTime":1508.03,"endTime":1511.186,"body":"have. But so so I put the"},{"speaker":"Andrew Jones","startTime":1511.186,"endTime":1513.359,"body":"document into AI. It came back"},{"speaker":"Andrew Jones","startTime":1513.359,"endTime":1514.96,"body":"with, I think it's nine points."},{"speaker":"Andrew Jones","startTime":1514.96,"endTime":1516.095,"body":"I'll give you the nine points"},{"speaker":"Andrew Jones","startTime":1516.095,"endTime":1517.42,"body":"and then we can work our way"},{"speaker":"Andrew Jones","startTime":1517.42,"endTime":1519.8,"body":"down through them. It said the"},{"speaker":"Andrew Jones","startTime":1519.8,"endTime":1521.819,"body":"headline target, which was to"},{"speaker":"Andrew Jones","startTime":1521.819,"endTime":1525.159,"body":"what the achievement. It was the"},{"speaker":"Andrew Jones","startTime":1525.159,"endTime":1527.653,"body":"aim for cattle vaccination by"},{"speaker":"Andrew Jones","startTime":1527.653,"endTime":1530.65,"body":"2030. Badger culling is ending."},{"speaker":"Andrew Jones","startTime":1530.65,"endTime":1533.222,"body":"Cattle remain the priority. High"},{"speaker":"Andrew Jones","startTime":1533.222,"endTime":1535.089,"body":"risk scores to be published."},{"speaker":"Andrew Jones","startTime":1535.089,"endTime":1537.17,"body":"Tighter rules on inconclusive"},{"speaker":"Andrew Jones","startTime":1537.17,"endTime":1539.503,"body":"reactors. Farmers to get access"},{"speaker":"Andrew Jones","startTime":1539.503,"endTime":1541.316,"body":"to auxiliary testing, new"},{"speaker":"Andrew Jones","startTime":1541.316,"endTime":1543.636,"body":"strategy, board to drive"},{"speaker":"Andrew Jones","startTime":1543.636,"endTime":1546.125,"body":"delivery and the Godfray"},{"speaker":"Andrew Jones","startTime":1546.125,"endTime":1548.224,"body":"Review's warning. Now those were"},{"speaker":"Andrew Jones","startTime":1548.224,"endTime":1549.65,"body":"the different bits and pieces."},{"speaker":"Andrew Jones","startTime":1549.65,"endTime":1552.089,"body":"So let's start at the top. The"},{"speaker":"Andrew Jones","startTime":1552.089,"endTime":1554.333,"body":"headline target. What is the"},{"speaker":"Andrew Jones","startTime":1554.333,"endTime":1556.473,"body":"headline target or outcome of"},{"speaker":"Andrew Jones","startTime":1556.473,"endTime":1557.329,"body":"this strategy."},{"speaker":"Sarah Tomlinson","startTime":1557.13,"endTime":1557.85,"body":"So we can cover"},{"speaker":"Sarah Tomlinson","startTime":1557.85,"endTime":1559.303,"body":"two off? I think the headline"},{"speaker":"Sarah Tomlinson","startTime":1559.303,"endTime":1561.162,"body":"target and the kind of Godfray"},{"speaker":"Sarah Tomlinson","startTime":1561.162,"endTime":1562.539,"body":"Review's warning that the"},{"speaker":"Sarah Tomlinson","startTime":1562.539,"endTime":1564.384,"body":"target, when we set the 25-year"},{"speaker":"Sarah Tomlinson","startTime":1564.384,"endTime":1566.049,"body":"eradication plan was to be"},{"speaker":"Sarah Tomlinson","startTime":1566.049,"endTime":1568.6,"body":"officially TB free by 2038, that"},{"speaker":"Sarah Tomlinson","startTime":1568.6,"endTime":1570.656,"body":"is still the target. And"},{"speaker":"Sarah Tomlinson","startTime":1570.656,"endTime":1571.65,"body":"actually, if you look at the"},{"speaker":"Sarah Tomlinson","startTime":1571.65,"endTime":1573.73,"body":"graphs of TB coming down,"},{"speaker":"Sarah Tomlinson","startTime":1573.73,"endTime":1574.93,"body":"because we have done an awful"},{"speaker":"Sarah Tomlinson","startTime":1574.93,"endTime":1577.029,"body":"lot of good stuff, including,"},{"speaker":"Sarah Tomlinson","startTime":1577.029,"endTime":1579.069,"body":"um, wider use of more sensitive"},{"speaker":"Sarah Tomlinson","startTime":1579.069,"endTime":1580.89,"body":"tests, gamma testing, movement"},{"speaker":"Sarah Tomlinson","startTime":1580.89,"endTime":1582.329,"body":"restrictions, pre and post"},{"speaker":"Sarah Tomlinson","startTime":1582.329,"endTime":1584.289,"body":"movement testing and badger"},{"speaker":"Sarah Tomlinson","startTime":1584.289,"endTime":1586.93,"body":"culling. Um, we have seen a"},{"speaker":"Sarah Tomlinson","startTime":1586.93,"endTime":1588.599,"body":"massive decline. Um, and if you"},{"speaker":"Sarah Tomlinson","startTime":1588.599,"endTime":1590.021,"body":"follow the line of best fit,"},{"speaker":"Sarah Tomlinson","startTime":1590.021,"endTime":1592.609,"body":"it's not far off 2038. But what"},{"speaker":"Sarah Tomlinson","startTime":1592.609,"endTime":1594.242,"body":"Godfray said was we need to"},{"speaker":"Sarah Tomlinson","startTime":1594.242,"endTime":1595.474,"body":"change what we're doing to get"},{"speaker":"Sarah Tomlinson","startTime":1595.474,"endTime":1597.11,"body":"there, and we need to do that"},{"speaker":"Sarah Tomlinson","startTime":1597.11,"endTime":1598.849,"body":"quickly. So that was almost the"},{"speaker":"Sarah Tomlinson","startTime":1598.849,"endTime":1600.273,"body":"warning. But again, it's been"},{"speaker":"Sarah Tomlinson","startTime":1600.273,"endTime":1601.457,"body":"really recognized in this"},{"speaker":"Sarah Tomlinson","startTime":1601.457,"endTime":1603.609,"body":"strategy that we don't need to"},{"speaker":"Sarah Tomlinson","startTime":1603.609,"endTime":1606.339,"body":"sort of wait for the, um, I"},{"speaker":"Sarah Tomlinson","startTime":1606.339,"endTime":1608.616,"body":"suppose, wait, we wait sort of"},{"speaker":"Sarah Tomlinson","startTime":1608.616,"endTime":1610.093,"body":"years for the epidemiology"},{"speaker":"Sarah Tomlinson","startTime":1610.093,"endTime":1612.316,"body":"reports to come out to tell us"},{"speaker":"Sarah Tomlinson","startTime":1612.316,"endTime":1613.56,"body":"what was happening two years"},{"speaker":"Sarah Tomlinson","startTime":1613.56,"endTime":1614.89,"body":"ago. Let's not wait for that."},{"speaker":"Sarah Tomlinson","startTime":1614.89,"endTime":1616.869,"body":"Let's act on the Intel we have"},{"speaker":"Sarah Tomlinson","startTime":1616.869,"endTime":1618.009,"body":"on the ground from vets and"},{"speaker":"Sarah Tomlinson","startTime":1618.009,"endTime":1621.91,"body":"farmers from the, um, local APHA"},{"speaker":"Sarah Tomlinson","startTime":1621.91,"endTime":1625.026,"body":"teams. And let's act on that. If"},{"speaker":"Sarah Tomlinson","startTime":1625.026,"endTime":1626.561,"body":"if if it doesn't work and it's"},{"speaker":"Sarah Tomlinson","startTime":1626.561,"endTime":1627.49,"body":"not working, let's change"},{"speaker":"Sarah Tomlinson","startTime":1627.49,"endTime":1629.674,"body":"quickly. Let's not kind of sit"},{"speaker":"Sarah Tomlinson","startTime":1629.674,"endTime":1631.059,"body":"and wait for these official"},{"speaker":"Sarah Tomlinson","startTime":1631.059,"endTime":1632.453,"body":"stats for a peer reviewed paper"},{"speaker":"Sarah Tomlinson","startTime":1632.453,"endTime":1633.766,"body":"to tell us that this is the"},{"speaker":"Sarah Tomlinson","startTime":1633.766,"endTime":1635.41,"body":"right or the wrong thing to do."},{"speaker":"Sarah Tomlinson","startTime":1635.41,"endTime":1637.303,"body":"So still, the headline target is"},{"speaker":"Sarah Tomlinson","startTime":1637.303,"endTime":1639.849,"body":"2038 to be officially TB free."},{"speaker":"Sarah Tomlinson","startTime":1639.849,"endTime":1642.417,"body":"Um, but, but recognizing that"},{"speaker":"Sarah Tomlinson","startTime":1642.417,"endTime":1642.93,"body":"urgency."},{"speaker":"Andrew Jones","startTime":1643.25,"endTime":1644.583,"body":"Being cynical, do"},{"speaker":"Andrew Jones","startTime":1644.583,"endTime":1646.361,"body":"you really think that's"},{"speaker":"Andrew Jones","startTime":1646.361,"endTime":1647.988,"body":"achievable because let's be you"},{"speaker":"Andrew Jones","startTime":1647.988,"endTime":1649.712,"body":"know, TB has been around for a"},{"speaker":"Andrew Jones","startTime":1649.712,"endTime":1651.277,"body":"very long time. I think we spoke"},{"speaker":"Andrew Jones","startTime":1651.277,"endTime":1652.319,"body":"about it. Did they start"},{"speaker":"Andrew Jones","startTime":1652.319,"endTime":1653.443,"body":"testing? Was it Second World War"},{"speaker":"Andrew Jones","startTime":1653.443,"endTime":1654.809,"body":"or something? I can't remember"},{"speaker":"Andrew Jones","startTime":1654.809,"endTime":1656.841,"body":"when it was. It's so you know,"},{"speaker":"Andrew Jones","startTime":1656.841,"endTime":1657.872,"body":"that's effectively one hundred"},{"speaker":"Andrew Jones","startTime":1657.872,"endTime":1659.292,"body":"years we've been doing this. And"},{"speaker":"Andrew Jones","startTime":1659.292,"endTime":1660.751,"body":"certainly all my life I, you"},{"speaker":"Andrew Jones","startTime":1660.751,"endTime":1662.21,"body":"know, remember the TB test, I"},{"speaker":"Andrew Jones","startTime":1662.21,"endTime":1663.193,"body":"remember as a teenager being"},{"speaker":"Andrew Jones","startTime":1663.193,"endTime":1664.569,"body":"shut down for a year with it."},{"speaker":"Andrew Jones","startTime":1664.569,"endTime":1666.21,"body":"And I mean, it definitely seems"},{"speaker":"Andrew Jones","startTime":1666.21,"endTime":1667.73,"body":"to have, we've discussed before"},{"speaker":"Andrew Jones","startTime":1667.73,"endTime":1668.809,"body":"become more prevalent and"},{"speaker":"Andrew Jones","startTime":1668.809,"endTime":1670.789,"body":"reasons why, etc., etc.. And you"},{"speaker":"Andrew Jones","startTime":1670.789,"endTime":1672.089,"body":"said last time, it's definitely"},{"speaker":"Andrew Jones","startTime":1672.089,"endTime":1674.19,"body":"getting better. Do you really"},{"speaker":"Andrew Jones","startTime":1674.19,"endTime":1676.109,"body":"think that's possible? Yes. It's"},{"speaker":"Andrew Jones","startTime":1676.109,"endTime":1677.41,"body":"been such a long time."},{"speaker":"Sarah Tomlinson","startTime":1677.41,"endTime":1678.665,"body":"Yes. And I am"},{"speaker":"Sarah Tomlinson","startTime":1678.665,"endTime":1680.548,"body":"often accused of being too much"},{"speaker":"Sarah Tomlinson","startTime":1680.548,"endTime":1682.28,"body":"of an optimist. But I think we"},{"speaker":"Sarah Tomlinson","startTime":1682.28,"endTime":1684.019,"body":"we do have to believe that what"},{"speaker":"Sarah Tomlinson","startTime":1684.019,"endTime":1685.639,"body":"I do believe is government can't"},{"speaker":"Sarah Tomlinson","startTime":1685.639,"endTime":1687.556,"body":"do that on their own. We will"},{"speaker":"Sarah Tomlinson","startTime":1687.556,"endTime":1689.523,"body":"not achieve that by keep"},{"speaker":"Sarah Tomlinson","startTime":1689.523,"endTime":1691.49,"body":"testing, keep killing cows, and"},{"speaker":"Sarah Tomlinson","startTime":1691.49,"endTime":1693.695,"body":"keep shutting farms down. What"},{"speaker":"Sarah Tomlinson","startTime":1693.695,"endTime":1695.686,"body":"we need to do is industry to"},{"speaker":"Sarah Tomlinson","startTime":1695.686,"endTime":1697.109,"body":"recognize what their role in"},{"speaker":"Sarah Tomlinson","startTime":1697.109,"endTime":1699.57,"body":"that is, and that is investing"},{"speaker":"Sarah Tomlinson","startTime":1699.57,"endTime":1701.21,"body":"in biosecurity, that is"},{"speaker":"Sarah Tomlinson","startTime":1701.21,"endTime":1704.266,"body":"investing in, um, I suppose,"},{"speaker":"Sarah Tomlinson","startTime":1704.266,"endTime":1706.359,"body":"information around trade. I"},{"speaker":"Sarah Tomlinson","startTime":1706.359,"endTime":1707.66,"body":"don't want government to come"},{"speaker":"Sarah Tomlinson","startTime":1707.66,"endTime":1709.079,"body":"and tell me that I have to"},{"speaker":"Sarah Tomlinson","startTime":1709.079,"endTime":1711.339,"body":"manage out that bovine reactor"},{"speaker":"Sarah Tomlinson","startTime":1711.339,"endTime":1713.06,"body":"again. We spoke about that on"},{"speaker":"Sarah Tomlinson","startTime":1713.06,"endTime":1714.286,"body":"the previous podcast. The test"},{"speaker":"Sarah Tomlinson","startTime":1714.286,"endTime":1715.882,"body":"isn't black and white. You can"},{"speaker":"Sarah Tomlinson","startTime":1715.882,"endTime":1718.165,"body":"look at the bovine reactions. I"},{"speaker":"Sarah Tomlinson","startTime":1718.165,"endTime":1719.515,"body":"don't want government to tell me"},{"speaker":"Sarah Tomlinson","startTime":1719.515,"endTime":1721.129,"body":"that. I want to be able to"},{"speaker":"Sarah Tomlinson","startTime":1721.129,"endTime":1722.286,"body":"manage that myself, but only"},{"speaker":"Sarah Tomlinson","startTime":1722.286,"endTime":1723.676,"body":"industry can do that, if that"},{"speaker":"Sarah Tomlinson","startTime":1723.676,"endTime":1724.939,"body":"makes sense. Farmers need to act"},{"speaker":"Sarah Tomlinson","startTime":1724.939,"endTime":1726.555,"body":"on that information that they"},{"speaker":"Sarah Tomlinson","startTime":1726.555,"endTime":1728.339,"body":"they gather and the and the"},{"speaker":"Sarah Tomlinson","startTime":1728.339,"endTime":1729.22,"body":"understanding of the test"},{"speaker":"Sarah Tomlinson","startTime":1729.22,"endTime":1730.66,"body":"results with their vet, just"},{"speaker":"Sarah Tomlinson","startTime":1730.66,"endTime":1732.2,"body":"like we do for Johne's's cell"},{"speaker":"Sarah Tomlinson","startTime":1732.2,"endTime":1734.259,"body":"counts, you know, mob scores, we"},{"speaker":"Sarah Tomlinson","startTime":1734.259,"endTime":1735.42,"body":"act on that data, that"},{"speaker":"Sarah Tomlinson","startTime":1735.42,"endTime":1737.14,"body":"information to manage those"},{"speaker":"Sarah Tomlinson","startTime":1737.14,"endTime":1738.38,"body":"animals differently, make"},{"speaker":"Sarah Tomlinson","startTime":1738.38,"endTime":1739.819,"body":"culling decisions, make breeding"},{"speaker":"Sarah Tomlinson","startTime":1739.819,"endTime":1741.619,"body":"decisions. And that's what we"},{"speaker":"Sarah Tomlinson","startTime":1741.619,"endTime":1743.182,"body":"need to do with TB. And I don't"},{"speaker":"Sarah Tomlinson","startTime":1743.182,"endTime":1744.308,"body":"want government to tell us how"},{"speaker":"Sarah Tomlinson","startTime":1744.308,"endTime":1746.083,"body":"to what to do. We need to come"},{"speaker":"Sarah Tomlinson","startTime":1746.083,"endTime":1747.363,"body":"up with that ourselves as"},{"speaker":"Sarah Tomlinson","startTime":1747.363,"endTime":1748.579,"body":"industry. And I think the"},{"speaker":"Sarah Tomlinson","startTime":1748.579,"endTime":1749.582,"body":"strategy gives us that framework"},{"speaker":"Sarah Tomlinson","startTime":1749.582,"endTime":1751.059,"body":"to be able to do that."},{"speaker":"Andrew Jones","startTime":1751.42,"endTime":1752.14,"body":"Interesting. Your"},{"speaker":"Andrew Jones","startTime":1752.14,"endTime":1753.645,"body":"comment on biosecurity. I know"},{"speaker":"Andrew Jones","startTime":1753.645,"endTime":1754.918,"body":"it's a story I've said many"},{"speaker":"Andrew Jones","startTime":1754.918,"endTime":1755.98,"body":"times, maybe not here, but"},{"speaker":"Andrew Jones","startTime":1755.98,"endTime":1757.333,"body":"elsewhere, but as a as an"},{"speaker":"Andrew Jones","startTime":1757.333,"endTime":1758.46,"body":"industry, the dairy industry is"},{"speaker":"Andrew Jones","startTime":1758.46,"endTime":1760.225,"body":"a bit rubbish. Let's be blunt"},{"speaker":"Andrew Jones","startTime":1760.225,"endTime":1761.914,"body":"about it, because I know I"},{"speaker":"Andrew Jones","startTime":1761.914,"endTime":1763.692,"body":"remember one time taking a wrong"},{"speaker":"Andrew Jones","startTime":1763.692,"endTime":1765.558,"body":"farm drive, realizing this is a"},{"speaker":"Andrew Jones","startTime":1765.558,"endTime":1767.707,"body":"long time ago, long before I was"},{"speaker":"Andrew Jones","startTime":1767.707,"endTime":1769.539,"body":"doing what I'm doing now, and"},{"speaker":"Andrew Jones","startTime":1769.539,"endTime":1771.396,"body":"realizing I'd gone to a pig unit"},{"speaker":"Andrew Jones","startTime":1771.396,"endTime":1773.519,"body":"and I was like, oh, just go up"},{"speaker":"Andrew Jones","startTime":1773.519,"endTime":1774.856,"body":"there and turn around. And this"},{"speaker":"Andrew Jones","startTime":1774.856,"endTime":1775.947,"body":"guy stepped out this building"},{"speaker":"Andrew Jones","startTime":1775.947,"endTime":1777.179,"body":"literally and went, no, you are"},{"speaker":"Andrew Jones","startTime":1777.179,"endTime":1778.235,"body":"not crossing that line. You are"},{"speaker":"Andrew Jones","startTime":1778.235,"endTime":1779.405,"body":"going to have to reverse all the"},{"speaker":"Andrew Jones","startTime":1779.405,"endTime":1780.882,"body":"way out. I just know, and that"},{"speaker":"Andrew Jones","startTime":1780.882,"endTime":1783.139,"body":"was it. I wasn't even allowed to"},{"speaker":"Andrew Jones","startTime":1783.139,"endTime":1785.032,"body":"turn around. I was I was"},{"speaker":"Andrew Jones","startTime":1785.032,"endTime":1786.98,"body":"reversed out. And, you know, I"},{"speaker":"Andrew Jones","startTime":1786.98,"endTime":1788.34,"body":"remember being on one farm, I"},{"speaker":"Andrew Jones","startTime":1788.34,"endTime":1789.448,"body":"think it was and they did warn"},{"speaker":"Andrew Jones","startTime":1789.448,"endTime":1790.74,"body":"me and I still forgot to put my"},{"speaker":"Andrew Jones","startTime":1790.74,"endTime":1792.242,"body":"windows up as I went through. So"},{"speaker":"Andrew Jones","startTime":1792.242,"endTime":1794.077,"body":"I still got caught out where you"},{"speaker":"Andrew Jones","startTime":1794.077,"endTime":1795.667,"body":"went. You went through a"},{"speaker":"Andrew Jones","startTime":1795.667,"endTime":1797.328,"body":"detector and the car got"},{"speaker":"Andrew Jones","startTime":1797.328,"endTime":1799.193,"body":"sprayed. Um, you know, we don't"},{"speaker":"Andrew Jones","startTime":1799.193,"endTime":1800.992,"body":"do. And I've definitely been on"},{"speaker":"Andrew Jones","startTime":1800.992,"endTime":1802.783,"body":"farm and, um, it's many years"},{"speaker":"Andrew Jones","startTime":1802.783,"endTime":1804.451,"body":"ago now and I saw the foot bath"},{"speaker":"Andrew Jones","startTime":1804.451,"endTime":1805.522,"body":"and if there's one there, I'll"},{"speaker":"Andrew Jones","startTime":1805.522,"endTime":1807.683,"body":"always dip my feet. Uh, first"},{"speaker":"Andrew Jones","startTime":1807.683,"endTime":1809.589,"body":"thing I'll do. And this farmer"},{"speaker":"Andrew Jones","startTime":1809.589,"endTime":1811.853,"body":"came out and he said, I've been"},{"speaker":"Andrew Jones","startTime":1811.853,"endTime":1813.129,"body":"watching you from the kitchen"},{"speaker":"Andrew Jones","startTime":1813.129,"endTime":1815.323,"body":"window. And I'm thinking, oh,"},{"speaker":"Andrew Jones","startTime":1815.323,"endTime":1817.019,"body":"okay. Is this good or bad? He"},{"speaker":"Andrew Jones","startTime":1817.019,"endTime":1818.019,"body":"said, that foot bath there."},{"speaker":"Andrew Jones","startTime":1818.019,"endTime":1819.13,"body":"You're the first person I've"},{"speaker":"Andrew Jones","startTime":1819.13,"endTime":1820.718,"body":"ever seen use it. So I guess you"},{"speaker":"Andrew Jones","startTime":1820.718,"endTime":1821.416,"body":"could say it's the"},{"speaker":"Andrew Jones","startTime":1821.416,"endTime":1822.168,"body":"responsibility of those coming"},{"speaker":"Andrew Jones","startTime":1822.168,"endTime":1823.762,"body":"on farm as well to make sure"},{"speaker":"Andrew Jones","startTime":1823.762,"endTime":1824.9,"body":"that they are dipping their"},{"speaker":"Andrew Jones","startTime":1824.9,"endTime":1827.14,"body":"feet, etc. as well."},{"speaker":"Sarah Tomlinson","startTime":1826.98,"endTime":1827.659,"body":"And this is"},{"speaker":"Sarah Tomlinson","startTime":1827.659,"endTime":1829.299,"body":"probably a whole other podcast,"},{"speaker":"Sarah Tomlinson","startTime":1829.299,"endTime":1832.637,"body":"but, um, I agree with you and I"},{"speaker":"Sarah Tomlinson","startTime":1832.637,"endTime":1834.9,"body":"graduated in 2001, so obviously"},{"speaker":"Sarah Tomlinson","startTime":1834.9,"endTime":1836.099,"body":"nobody wanted you on farm"},{"speaker":"Sarah Tomlinson","startTime":1836.099,"endTime":1837.22,"body":"because we were, we were under"},{"speaker":"Sarah Tomlinson","startTime":1837.22,"endTime":1839.16,"body":"foot and mouth kind of, um,"},{"speaker":"Sarah Tomlinson","startTime":1839.16,"endTime":1841.079,"body":"devastating, um, kind of"},{"speaker":"Sarah Tomlinson","startTime":1841.079,"endTime":1844.591,"body":"measures. And we had a bit of a"},{"speaker":"Sarah Tomlinson","startTime":1844.591,"endTime":1846.274,"body":"scare, didn't we? Was it last"},{"speaker":"Sarah Tomlinson","startTime":1846.274,"endTime":1847.914,"body":"summer or the summer before? And"},{"speaker":"Sarah Tomlinson","startTime":1847.914,"endTime":1850.401,"body":"my first thought was how many"},{"speaker":"Sarah Tomlinson","startTime":1850.401,"endTime":1852.189,"body":"farmers could actually say, do"},{"speaker":"Sarah Tomlinson","startTime":1852.189,"endTime":1853.21,"body":"you know what? This is really"},{"speaker":"Sarah Tomlinson","startTime":1853.21,"endTime":1854.248,"body":"awful. We've got foot and mouth,"},{"speaker":"Sarah Tomlinson","startTime":1854.248,"endTime":1856.244,"body":"but I think my biosecurity is"},{"speaker":"Sarah Tomlinson","startTime":1856.244,"endTime":1858.659,"body":"pretty okay. I haven't had the"},{"speaker":"Sarah Tomlinson","startTime":1858.659,"endTime":1860.02,"body":"haulier down delivering, um,"},{"speaker":"Sarah Tomlinson","startTime":1860.02,"endTime":1862.086,"body":"feed today. I haven't had the"},{"speaker":"Sarah Tomlinson","startTime":1862.086,"endTime":1863.588,"body":"Amazon driver. Other delivery"},{"speaker":"Sarah Tomlinson","startTime":1863.588,"endTime":1865.206,"body":"drivers are available coming"},{"speaker":"Sarah Tomlinson","startTime":1865.206,"endTime":1867.124,"body":"down your drive because these"},{"speaker":"Sarah Tomlinson","startTime":1867.124,"endTime":1868.58,"body":"are real risks. They're very"},{"speaker":"Sarah Tomlinson","startTime":1868.58,"endTime":1869.979,"body":"different to the ones we had in"},{"speaker":"Sarah Tomlinson","startTime":1869.979,"endTime":1874.003,"body":"2001 because and, and so I and"},{"speaker":"Sarah Tomlinson","startTime":1874.003,"endTime":1875.96,"body":"equally, biosecurity isn't just"},{"speaker":"Sarah Tomlinson","startTime":1875.96,"endTime":1878.347,"body":"wheel dips and foot dips. It is"},{"speaker":"Sarah Tomlinson","startTime":1878.347,"endTime":1880.196,"body":"by I mean, the other word is"},{"speaker":"Sarah Tomlinson","startTime":1880.196,"endTime":1881.402,"body":"biocontainment. It's. How do you"},{"speaker":"Sarah Tomlinson","startTime":1881.402,"endTime":1882.807,"body":"reduce the risk from the mother"},{"speaker":"Sarah Tomlinson","startTime":1882.807,"endTime":1884.614,"body":"to the calf? How do you reduce"},{"speaker":"Sarah Tomlinson","startTime":1884.614,"endTime":1886.273,"body":"the risk from your adulthood for"},{"speaker":"Sarah Tomlinson","startTime":1886.273,"endTime":1887.509,"body":"something like salmonella into"},{"speaker":"Sarah Tomlinson","startTime":1887.509,"endTime":1890.008,"body":"your into your calf unit? So it"},{"speaker":"Sarah Tomlinson","startTime":1890.008,"endTime":1892.703,"body":"and it should become just part"},{"speaker":"Sarah Tomlinson","startTime":1892.703,"endTime":1895.17,"body":"of everyday life that we are"},{"speaker":"Sarah Tomlinson","startTime":1895.17,"endTime":1897.298,"body":"better at it. And I agree and,"},{"speaker":"Sarah Tomlinson","startTime":1897.298,"endTime":1899.543,"body":"and it is again, 25-year"},{"speaker":"Sarah Tomlinson","startTime":1899.543,"endTime":1901.669,"body":"anniversary to that horrific"},{"speaker":"Sarah Tomlinson","startTime":1901.669,"endTime":1903.786,"body":"foot and mouth outbreak. And"},{"speaker":"Sarah Tomlinson","startTime":1903.786,"endTime":1905.355,"body":"maybe that's an opportunity for"},{"speaker":"Sarah Tomlinson","startTime":1905.355,"endTime":1907.447,"body":"us to just look at, you know,"},{"speaker":"Sarah Tomlinson","startTime":1907.447,"endTime":1908.99,"body":"are we prepared if we got"},{"speaker":"Sarah Tomlinson","startTime":1908.99,"endTime":1910.43,"body":"something as horrific as that"},{"speaker":"Sarah Tomlinson","startTime":1910.43,"endTime":1911.869,"body":"again, because it is in mainland"},{"speaker":"Sarah Tomlinson","startTime":1911.869,"endTime":1915.035,"body":"Europe? Um, and, and, and it"},{"speaker":"Sarah Tomlinson","startTime":1915.035,"endTime":1917.369,"body":"does again, it's immediate, it"},{"speaker":"Sarah Tomlinson","startTime":1917.369,"endTime":1919.389,"body":"devastates businesses. So maybe"},{"speaker":"Sarah Tomlinson","startTime":1919.389,"endTime":1921.149,"body":"that's the next podcast"},{"speaker":"Sarah Tomlinson","startTime":1921.149,"endTime":1921.589,"body":"biosecurity."},{"speaker":"Sarah Bolt","startTime":1922.71,"endTime":1923.582,"body":"It's one of my"},{"speaker":"Sarah Bolt","startTime":1923.582,"endTime":1924.673,"body":"passions as well, Sarah, because"},{"speaker":"Sarah Bolt","startTime":1924.673,"endTime":1926.903,"body":"it's something that we can all"},{"speaker":"Sarah Bolt","startTime":1926.903,"endTime":1929.593,"body":"make quite a quite small changes"},{"speaker":"Sarah Bolt","startTime":1929.593,"endTime":1931.95,"body":"to make quite a big difference."},{"speaker":"Andrew Jones","startTime":1932.509,"endTime":1933.23,"body":"Yeah, definitely."},{"speaker":"Andrew Jones","startTime":1933.23,"endTime":1935.13,"body":"So then moving on cattle"},{"speaker":"Andrew Jones","startTime":1935.13,"endTime":1937.119,"body":"vaccination by 2030, this is"},{"speaker":"Andrew Jones","startTime":1937.119,"endTime":1938.526,"body":"going to be a little bit"},{"speaker":"Andrew Jones","startTime":1938.526,"endTime":1939.23,"body":"different for sure."},{"speaker":"Sarah Tomlinson","startTime":1939.269,"endTime":1940.195,"body":"Yes. So again,"},{"speaker":"Sarah Tomlinson","startTime":1940.195,"endTime":1941.841,"body":"what we what the strategy does"},{"speaker":"Sarah Tomlinson","startTime":1941.841,"endTime":1943.934,"body":"is put a date on it. So I think"},{"speaker":"Sarah Tomlinson","startTime":1943.934,"endTime":1945.745,"body":"we can hold people to account"},{"speaker":"Sarah Tomlinson","startTime":1945.745,"endTime":1947.542,"body":"over this. You know, we've said"},{"speaker":"Sarah Tomlinson","startTime":1947.542,"endTime":1949.332,"body":"this is this is where it's"},{"speaker":"Sarah Tomlinson","startTime":1949.332,"endTime":1951.37,"body":"coming. Um, what I think some of"},{"speaker":"Sarah Tomlinson","startTime":1951.37,"endTime":1952.819,"body":"the headlines when it was"},{"speaker":"Sarah Tomlinson","startTime":1952.819,"endTime":1954.645,"body":"launched was this was the"},{"speaker":"Sarah Tomlinson","startTime":1954.645,"endTime":1956.346,"body":"headline. And actually it is a"},{"speaker":"Sarah Tomlinson","startTime":1956.346,"endTime":1957.927,"body":"very small part of a bigger"},{"speaker":"Sarah Tomlinson","startTime":1957.927,"endTime":1959.434,"body":"strategy. So it isn't going to"},{"speaker":"Sarah Tomlinson","startTime":1959.434,"endTime":1960.67,"body":"be the revolutionary tool. Once"},{"speaker":"Sarah Tomlinson","startTime":1960.67,"endTime":1962.133,"body":"we vaccinate cattle, we can pull"},{"speaker":"Sarah Tomlinson","startTime":1962.133,"endTime":1964.029,"body":"away from doing everything else."},{"speaker":"Sarah Tomlinson","startTime":1964.029,"endTime":1966.269,"body":"Um, but it is going to be a"},{"speaker":"Sarah Tomlinson","startTime":1966.269,"endTime":1968.277,"body":"really valuable tool. Um, field"},{"speaker":"Sarah Tomlinson","startTime":1968.277,"endTime":1970.965,"body":"trials, um, phase three have I"},{"speaker":"Sarah Tomlinson","startTime":1970.965,"endTime":1973.058,"body":"think been completed. So, um,"},{"speaker":"Sarah Tomlinson","startTime":1973.058,"endTime":1974.43,"body":"and I hope they've been"},{"speaker":"Sarah Tomlinson","startTime":1974.43,"endTime":1976.109,"body":"successful or I, or they"},{"speaker":"Sarah Tomlinson","startTime":1976.109,"endTime":1977.63,"body":"probably wouldn't put a date in"},{"speaker":"Sarah Tomlinson","startTime":1977.63,"endTime":1979.214,"body":"the strategy. I don't know, I'm"},{"speaker":"Sarah Tomlinson","startTime":1979.214,"endTime":1983.286,"body":"just supposing, um, the, the,"},{"speaker":"Sarah Tomlinson","startTime":1983.286,"endTime":1986.111,"body":"the, the time frame, the 2038"},{"speaker":"Sarah Tomlinson","startTime":1986.111,"endTime":1988.309,"body":"why not next year is mainly"},{"speaker":"Sarah Tomlinson","startTime":1988.309,"endTime":1989.97,"body":"around getting all the paperwork"},{"speaker":"Sarah Tomlinson","startTime":1989.97,"endTime":1992.069,"body":"right. So we've got to put in"},{"speaker":"Sarah Tomlinson","startTime":1992.069,"endTime":1993.082,"body":"marketing authorisations so that"},{"speaker":"Sarah Tomlinson","startTime":1993.082,"endTime":1995.022,"body":"we can get the licensing to use"},{"speaker":"Sarah Tomlinson","startTime":1995.022,"endTime":1997.15,"body":"it. We've got to get it listed."},{"speaker":"Sarah Tomlinson","startTime":1997.15,"endTime":1998.909,"body":"Um, the DIVA test to be able to"},{"speaker":"Sarah Tomlinson","startTime":1998.909,"endTime":1999.789,"body":"tell the difference between"},{"speaker":"Sarah Tomlinson","startTime":1999.789,"endTime":2000.957,"body":"vaccinated and infected animals"},{"speaker":"Sarah Tomlinson","startTime":2000.957,"endTime":2003.109,"body":"has got to be listed with. Woah!"},{"speaker":"Sarah Tomlinson","startTime":2003.109,"endTime":2004.679,"body":"So there's whole dossier of all"},{"speaker":"Sarah Tomlinson","startTime":2004.679,"endTime":2006.25,"body":"the science and evidence has to"},{"speaker":"Sarah Tomlinson","startTime":2006.25,"endTime":2008.327,"body":"go in there. So that's what the"},{"speaker":"Sarah Tomlinson","startTime":2008.327,"endTime":2010.32,"body":"time delay is. The other big"},{"speaker":"Sarah Tomlinson","startTime":2010.32,"endTime":2012.72,"body":"caveat is, um, getting all our"},{"speaker":"Sarah Tomlinson","startTime":2012.72,"endTime":2015.424,"body":"trade deals kind of worked out"},{"speaker":"Sarah Tomlinson","startTime":2015.424,"endTime":2018.494,"body":"because all of the woah kind of"},{"speaker":"Sarah Tomlinson","startTime":2018.494,"endTime":2020.045,"body":"guidelines are based around the"},{"speaker":"Sarah Tomlinson","startTime":2020.045,"endTime":2021.63,"body":"current skin test, which we"},{"speaker":"Sarah Tomlinson","startTime":2021.63,"endTime":2023.33,"body":"can't use in vaccinated animals"},{"speaker":"Sarah Tomlinson","startTime":2023.33,"endTime":2024.47,"body":"because about eighty percent"},{"speaker":"Sarah Tomlinson","startTime":2024.47,"endTime":2026.434,"body":"would test positive. Currently,"},{"speaker":"Sarah Tomlinson","startTime":2026.434,"endTime":2029.057,"body":"it's illegal to trade BCG"},{"speaker":"Sarah Tomlinson","startTime":2029.057,"endTime":2030.63,"body":"vaccinated cattle products"},{"speaker":"Sarah Tomlinson","startTime":2030.63,"endTime":2032.746,"body":"because how do you know then"},{"speaker":"Sarah Tomlinson","startTime":2032.746,"endTime":2034.884,"body":"that your tests are working? So"},{"speaker":"Sarah Tomlinson","startTime":2034.884,"endTime":2037.509,"body":"there's a bit of kind of, I"},{"speaker":"Sarah Tomlinson","startTime":2037.509,"endTime":2039.63,"body":"suppose, politics and and"},{"speaker":"Sarah Tomlinson","startTime":2039.63,"endTime":2041.45,"body":"negotiation that needs to"},{"speaker":"Sarah Tomlinson","startTime":2041.45,"endTime":2043.997,"body":"happen. But there's a lot of"},{"speaker":"Sarah Tomlinson","startTime":2043.997,"endTime":2045.524,"body":"other countries that we also"},{"speaker":"Sarah Tomlinson","startTime":2045.524,"endTime":2047.093,"body":"trade with who are really"},{"speaker":"Sarah Tomlinson","startTime":2047.093,"endTime":2048.673,"body":"interested in having a cattle"},{"speaker":"Sarah Tomlinson","startTime":2048.673,"endTime":2050.206,"body":"vaccine. Um, you know, Spanish"},{"speaker":"Sarah Tomlinson","startTime":2050.206,"endTime":2051.206,"body":"farmers, their wildlife"},{"speaker":"Sarah Tomlinson","startTime":2051.206,"endTime":2053.67,"body":"reservoir is wild boar. Um, so"},{"speaker":"Sarah Tomlinson","startTime":2053.67,"endTime":2054.926,"body":"they, they would really, really"},{"speaker":"Sarah Tomlinson","startTime":2054.926,"endTime":2056.249,"body":"keen to protect their cattle"},{"speaker":"Sarah Tomlinson","startTime":2056.249,"endTime":2058.303,"body":"herds. Um, and also some of the"},{"speaker":"Sarah Tomlinson","startTime":2058.303,"endTime":2059.099,"body":"developing countries where"},{"speaker":"Sarah Tomlinson","startTime":2059.099,"endTime":2061.344,"body":"actually they're one or two cows"},{"speaker":"Sarah Tomlinson","startTime":2061.344,"endTime":2063.096,"body":"keeps their family alive. So"},{"speaker":"Sarah Tomlinson","startTime":2063.096,"endTime":2064.867,"body":"they are really keen. And a lot"},{"speaker":"Sarah Tomlinson","startTime":2064.867,"endTime":2066.363,"body":"of the vaccine work has been"},{"speaker":"Sarah Tomlinson","startTime":2066.363,"endTime":2068.213,"body":"done in, in Ethiopia. So it's"},{"speaker":"Sarah Tomlinson","startTime":2068.213,"endTime":2069.611,"body":"exciting. But I don't think"},{"speaker":"Sarah Tomlinson","startTime":2069.611,"endTime":2071.094,"body":"it'll be the it's not the it's"},{"speaker":"Sarah Tomlinson","startTime":2071.094,"endTime":2072.526,"body":"not to me, it's not the headline"},{"speaker":"Sarah Tomlinson","startTime":2072.526,"endTime":2074.48,"body":"of the strategy. It's part of"},{"speaker":"Sarah Tomlinson","startTime":2074.48,"endTime":2074.8,"body":"it."},{"speaker":"Andrew Jones","startTime":2074.639,"endTime":2075.319,"body":"But it's but it's"},{"speaker":"Andrew Jones","startTime":2075.319,"endTime":2076.339,"body":"the one that people have picked"},{"speaker":"Andrew Jones","startTime":2076.339,"endTime":2077.32,"body":"up on. But then you mentioned"},{"speaker":"Andrew Jones","startTime":2077.32,"endTime":2078.947,"body":"there. So what just to explain"},{"speaker":"Andrew Jones","startTime":2078.947,"endTime":2080.707,"body":"to people, what would the test"},{"speaker":"Andrew Jones","startTime":2080.707,"endTime":2082.472,"body":"be if they are vaccinated? I've"},{"speaker":"Andrew Jones","startTime":2082.472,"endTime":2083.525,"body":"got to be honest. We're going"},{"speaker":"Andrew Jones","startTime":2083.525,"endTime":2084.789,"body":"back to Mr. Clarkson again. I"},{"speaker":"Andrew Jones","startTime":2084.789,"endTime":2086.208,"body":"mean, he made it and I know it's"},{"speaker":"Andrew Jones","startTime":2086.208,"endTime":2088.48,"body":"created some discussion at home."},{"speaker":"Andrew Jones","startTime":2088.48,"endTime":2089.66,"body":"Well, it's just antiquated just"},{"speaker":"Andrew Jones","startTime":2089.66,"endTime":2091.088,"body":"pinching a bit of skin. What"},{"speaker":"Andrew Jones","startTime":2091.088,"endTime":2092.576,"body":"happens if you, you know, pinch"},{"speaker":"Andrew Jones","startTime":2092.576,"endTime":2093.84,"body":"it slightly differently. And I"},{"speaker":"Andrew Jones","startTime":2093.84,"endTime":2095.659,"body":"suppose it is it is the reaction"},{"speaker":"Andrew Jones","startTime":2095.659,"endTime":2096.912,"body":"from myself was like, well,"},{"speaker":"Andrew Jones","startTime":2096.912,"endTime":2098.187,"body":"that's the way we've always done"},{"speaker":"Andrew Jones","startTime":2098.187,"endTime":2099.6,"body":"it. But that doesn't mean it's"},{"speaker":"Andrew Jones","startTime":2099.6,"endTime":2101.143,"body":"the should still be the way we"},{"speaker":"Andrew Jones","startTime":2101.143,"endTime":2103.34,"body":"do it. It, it does look a bit"},{"speaker":"Andrew Jones","startTime":2103.34,"endTime":2104.639,"body":"antiquated compared to some"},{"speaker":"Andrew Jones","startTime":2104.639,"endTime":2106.439,"body":"other stuff. So what were the"},{"speaker":"Andrew Jones","startTime":2106.439,"endTime":2108.459,"body":"differences in tests be if you"},{"speaker":"Andrew Jones","startTime":2108.459,"endTime":2109.92,"body":"are vaccinating cattle."},{"speaker":"Sarah Tomlinson","startTime":2109.719,"endTime":2111.09,"body":"So it is still"},{"speaker":"Sarah Tomlinson","startTime":2111.09,"endTime":2114.497,"body":"a skin test. It's only a single"},{"speaker":"Sarah Tomlinson","startTime":2114.497,"endTime":2117.104,"body":"um uh, test that we put in, it"},{"speaker":"Sarah Tomlinson","startTime":2117.104,"endTime":2118.733,"body":"wouldn't be a comparative test"},{"speaker":"Sarah Tomlinson","startTime":2118.733,"endTime":2120.486,"body":"because technology has moved on"},{"speaker":"Sarah Tomlinson","startTime":2120.486,"endTime":2123.079,"body":"to make that protein mix purer,"},{"speaker":"Sarah Tomlinson","startTime":2123.079,"endTime":2125.53,"body":"so that we can be confident that"},{"speaker":"Sarah Tomlinson","startTime":2125.53,"endTime":2128.48,"body":"it is a reaction to m.bovis and"},{"speaker":"Sarah Tomlinson","startTime":2128.48,"endTime":2132.0,"body":"nothing else. Um, it is still a"},{"speaker":"Sarah Tomlinson","startTime":2132.0,"endTime":2134.015,"body":"measurement. I mean, again, I do"},{"speaker":"Sarah Tomlinson","startTime":2134.015,"endTime":2136.126,"body":"get that to people that don't do"},{"speaker":"Sarah Tomlinson","startTime":2136.126,"endTime":2137.826,"body":"the TB test every day that they"},{"speaker":"Sarah Tomlinson","startTime":2137.826,"endTime":2138.943,"body":"think, oh, but you could just"},{"speaker":"Sarah Tomlinson","startTime":2138.943,"endTime":2140.288,"body":"squeeze harder. You could"},{"speaker":"Sarah Tomlinson","startTime":2140.288,"endTime":2142.279,"body":"squeeze, squeeze looser. Um,"},{"speaker":"Sarah Tomlinson","startTime":2142.279,"endTime":2146.183,"body":"when you're doing the test, you"},{"speaker":"Sarah Tomlinson","startTime":2146.183,"endTime":2148.159,"body":"do get a feeling for doing it."},{"speaker":"Sarah Tomlinson","startTime":2148.159,"endTime":2150.649,"body":"And you and I, and it is quite"},{"speaker":"Sarah Tomlinson","startTime":2150.649,"endTime":2151.62,"body":"repeatable. Um, you shouldn't"},{"speaker":"Sarah Tomlinson","startTime":2151.62,"endTime":2152.824,"body":"have the same person measuring"},{"speaker":"Sarah Tomlinson","startTime":2152.824,"endTime":2154.2,"body":"on or a different person"},{"speaker":"Sarah Tomlinson","startTime":2154.2,"endTime":2155.76,"body":"measuring on day one to day two"},{"speaker":"Sarah Tomlinson","startTime":2155.76,"endTime":2158.283,"body":"to keep that consistency. Um,"},{"speaker":"Sarah Tomlinson","startTime":2158.283,"endTime":2161.42,"body":"but yeah, I mean, my only"},{"speaker":"Sarah Tomlinson","startTime":2161.42,"endTime":2162.76,"body":"downside is it's health and"},{"speaker":"Sarah Tomlinson","startTime":2162.76,"endTime":2164.008,"body":"safety. What do they always tell"},{"speaker":"Sarah Tomlinson","startTime":2164.008,"endTime":2165.22,"body":"you not to do? Put your hand"},{"speaker":"Sarah Tomlinson","startTime":2165.22,"endTime":2166.448,"body":"into the crush. And actually"},{"speaker":"Sarah Tomlinson","startTime":2166.448,"endTime":2168.151,"body":"that's something we have to do"},{"speaker":"Sarah Tomlinson","startTime":2168.151,"endTime":2169.919,"body":"three times. You have to go in"},{"speaker":"Sarah Tomlinson","startTime":2169.919,"endTime":2171.449,"body":"measure. You have to go in or"},{"speaker":"Sarah Tomlinson","startTime":2171.449,"endTime":2172.954,"body":"clip, go in measure and then go"},{"speaker":"Sarah Tomlinson","startTime":2172.954,"endTime":2175.07,"body":"in and jab. So um yeah, I have"},{"speaker":"Sarah Tomlinson","startTime":2175.07,"endTime":2177.13,"body":"got quite a few lumps and bumps"},{"speaker":"Sarah Tomlinson","startTime":2177.13,"endTime":2178.707,"body":"and probably broken fingers from"},{"speaker":"Sarah Tomlinson","startTime":2178.707,"endTime":2180.682,"body":"doing TB testing over the years,"},{"speaker":"Sarah Tomlinson","startTime":2180.682,"endTime":2183.364,"body":"but um, but no, it is still a"},{"speaker":"Sarah Tomlinson","startTime":2183.364,"endTime":2184.039,"body":"skin test."},{"speaker":"Andrew Jones","startTime":2184.44,"endTime":2185.458,"body":"It's still just a"},{"speaker":"Andrew Jones","startTime":2185.458,"endTime":2186.985,"body":"single one rather than a double"},{"speaker":"Andrew Jones","startTime":2186.985,"endTime":2190.185,"body":"one. Um, so next one badger"},{"speaker":"Andrew Jones","startTime":2190.185,"endTime":2191.84,"body":"culling is ending. Now that"},{"speaker":"Andrew Jones","startTime":2191.84,"endTime":2193.52,"body":"might be some people might like"},{"speaker":"Andrew Jones","startTime":2193.52,"endTime":2194.86,"body":"that. Some people might find"},{"speaker":"Andrew Jones","startTime":2194.86,"endTime":2196.152,"body":"that a bit controversial. What,"},{"speaker":"Andrew Jones","startTime":2196.152,"endTime":2197.775,"body":"uh, tell us a little bit more"},{"speaker":"Andrew Jones","startTime":2197.775,"endTime":2198.239,"body":"about that."},{"speaker":"Sarah Tomlinson","startTime":2198.079,"endTime":2199.088,"body":"Yeah. So badger"},{"speaker":"Sarah Tomlinson","startTime":2199.088,"endTime":2200.72,"body":"culling was already ending in"},{"speaker":"Sarah Tomlinson","startTime":2200.72,"endTime":2202.538,"body":"the previous government. The"},{"speaker":"Sarah Tomlinson","startTime":2202.538,"endTime":2204.511,"body":"conservative government had"},{"speaker":"Sarah Tomlinson","startTime":2204.511,"endTime":2207.8,"body":"already talked about ending the"},{"speaker":"Sarah Tomlinson","startTime":2207.8,"endTime":2210.2,"body":"cull licences, finishing the"},{"speaker":"Sarah Tomlinson","startTime":2210.2,"endTime":2212.0,"body":"supplementary culling licences,"},{"speaker":"Sarah Tomlinson","startTime":2212.0,"endTime":2214.187,"body":"which came after the four year"},{"speaker":"Sarah Tomlinson","startTime":2214.187,"endTime":2215.692,"body":"intensive cull licences. And"},{"speaker":"Sarah Tomlinson","startTime":2215.692,"endTime":2217.34,"body":"we're already talking about"},{"speaker":"Sarah Tomlinson","startTime":2217.34,"endTime":2219.559,"body":"moving into post culling badger"},{"speaker":"Sarah Tomlinson","startTime":2219.559,"endTime":2222.256,"body":"vaccination. So again, I think"},{"speaker":"Sarah Tomlinson","startTime":2222.256,"endTime":2224.32,"body":"it's AI pulling out a headline."},{"speaker":"Sarah Tomlinson","startTime":2224.32,"endTime":2226.92,"body":"Um, that isn't probably one"},{"speaker":"Sarah Tomlinson","startTime":2226.92,"endTime":2229.147,"body":"hundred percent correct. Um, the"},{"speaker":"Sarah Tomlinson","startTime":2229.147,"endTime":2230.813,"body":"strategy does talk about that"},{"speaker":"Sarah Tomlinson","startTime":2230.813,"endTime":2232.48,"body":"this has been or the"},{"speaker":"Sarah Tomlinson","startTime":2232.48,"endTime":2234.074,"body":"recommendations have been"},{"speaker":"Sarah Tomlinson","startTime":2234.074,"endTime":2236.199,"body":"written under this current"},{"speaker":"Sarah Tomlinson","startTime":2236.199,"endTime":2239.342,"body":"political kind of umbrella. And"},{"speaker":"Sarah Tomlinson","startTime":2239.342,"endTime":2241.732,"body":"but what it does talk about is"},{"speaker":"Sarah Tomlinson","startTime":2241.732,"endTime":2243.44,"body":"ensuring that should we get"},{"speaker":"Sarah Tomlinson","startTime":2243.44,"endTime":2245.432,"body":"another government, that that"},{"speaker":"Sarah Tomlinson","startTime":2245.432,"endTime":2248.42,"body":"government has a framework to be"},{"speaker":"Sarah Tomlinson","startTime":2248.42,"endTime":2251.15,"body":"able to identify where lethal"},{"speaker":"Sarah Tomlinson","startTime":2251.15,"endTime":2254.28,"body":"control could play a part. What"},{"speaker":"Sarah Tomlinson","startTime":2254.28,"endTime":2256.28,"body":"has happened since the previous"},{"speaker":"Sarah Tomlinson","startTime":2256.28,"endTime":2259.24,"body":"calls were licensed is that the"},{"speaker":"Sarah Tomlinson","startTime":2259.24,"endTime":2261.96,"body":"rules around culling wildlife,"},{"speaker":"Sarah Tomlinson","startTime":2261.96,"endTime":2264.316,"body":"um, for disease control"},{"speaker":"Sarah Tomlinson","startTime":2264.316,"endTime":2266.211,"body":"purposes, which is still in our"},{"speaker":"Sarah Tomlinson","startTime":2266.211,"endTime":2267.696,"body":"legislation, it's still there as"},{"speaker":"Sarah Tomlinson","startTime":2267.696,"endTime":2269.845,"body":"a, as a tool to use that you've"},{"speaker":"Sarah Tomlinson","startTime":2269.845,"endTime":2272.066,"body":"almost got to, it's got to be a"},{"speaker":"Sarah Tomlinson","startTime":2272.066,"endTime":2273.759,"body":"last resort. So that's why we"},{"speaker":"Sarah Tomlinson","startTime":2273.759,"endTime":2275.289,"body":"have to engage in badger"},{"speaker":"Sarah Tomlinson","startTime":2275.289,"endTime":2276.756,"body":"vaccination because actually, if"},{"speaker":"Sarah Tomlinson","startTime":2276.756,"endTime":2278.736,"body":"it doesn't work, we've got the"},{"speaker":"Sarah Tomlinson","startTime":2278.736,"endTime":2280.025,"body":"evidence that culling is the"},{"speaker":"Sarah Tomlinson","startTime":2280.025,"endTime":2281.97,"body":"only tool kind of left"},{"speaker":"Sarah Tomlinson","startTime":2281.97,"endTime":2283.971,"body":"available. And we can get"},{"speaker":"Sarah Tomlinson","startTime":2283.971,"endTime":2285.548,"body":"licences or it works and we"},{"speaker":"Sarah Tomlinson","startTime":2285.548,"endTime":2287.292,"body":"don't have to go back to"},{"speaker":"Sarah Tomlinson","startTime":2287.292,"endTime":2289.614,"body":"culling. Um, you know, I think,"},{"speaker":"Sarah Tomlinson","startTime":2289.614,"endTime":2292.775,"body":"um, I can I'm not, I'm not a"},{"speaker":"Sarah Tomlinson","startTime":2292.775,"endTime":2294.161,"body":"farmer. I wasn't farming through"},{"speaker":"Sarah Tomlinson","startTime":2294.161,"endTime":2296.09,"body":"them. But, um, I know an awful"},{"speaker":"Sarah Tomlinson","startTime":2296.09,"endTime":2297.802,"body":"lot of people that were involved"},{"speaker":"Sarah Tomlinson","startTime":2297.802,"endTime":2299.09,"body":"in getting those groups off the"},{"speaker":"Sarah Tomlinson","startTime":2299.09,"endTime":2300.894,"body":"ground. And it was hard work. It"},{"speaker":"Sarah Tomlinson","startTime":2300.894,"endTime":2302.326,"body":"did cost the industry a lot of"},{"speaker":"Sarah Tomlinson","startTime":2302.326,"endTime":2304.17,"body":"money. It was very successful."},{"speaker":"Sarah Tomlinson","startTime":2304.17,"endTime":2306.409,"body":"And I always try and tell any"},{"speaker":"Sarah Tomlinson","startTime":2306.409,"endTime":2307.889,"body":"farmer group that they delivered"},{"speaker":"Sarah Tomlinson","startTime":2307.889,"endTime":2309.13,"body":"a government policy really"},{"speaker":"Sarah Tomlinson","startTime":2309.13,"endTime":2311.644,"body":"successfully. Um, so I don't"},{"speaker":"Sarah Tomlinson","startTime":2311.644,"endTime":2313.804,"body":"think and again, I don't know if"},{"speaker":"Sarah Tomlinson","startTime":2313.804,"endTime":2315.618,"body":"we talked about this last time"},{"speaker":"Sarah Tomlinson","startTime":2315.618,"endTime":2317.098,"body":"or not, Badger vaccination was"},{"speaker":"Sarah Tomlinson","startTime":2317.098,"endTime":2318.842,"body":"always pitched as an anti"},{"speaker":"Sarah Tomlinson","startTime":2318.842,"endTime":2320.749,"body":"culling tool. It was what the"},{"speaker":"Sarah Tomlinson","startTime":2320.749,"endTime":2322.138,"body":"wildlife groups were saying. We"},{"speaker":"Sarah Tomlinson","startTime":2322.138,"endTime":2323.632,"body":"don't need to cull because we"},{"speaker":"Sarah Tomlinson","startTime":2323.632,"endTime":2324.876,"body":"can vaccinate. And I think"},{"speaker":"Sarah Tomlinson","startTime":2324.876,"endTime":2326.12,"body":"again, we've got into that"},{"speaker":"Sarah Tomlinson","startTime":2326.12,"endTime":2328.301,"body":"mindset. It's either or. And"},{"speaker":"Sarah Tomlinson","startTime":2328.301,"endTime":2329.809,"body":"actually there is a lot of"},{"speaker":"Sarah Tomlinson","startTime":2329.809,"endTime":2331.809,"body":"evidence that badger vaccination"},{"speaker":"Sarah Tomlinson","startTime":2331.809,"endTime":2333.61,"body":"reduces the spread of TB within"},{"speaker":"Sarah Tomlinson","startTime":2333.61,"endTime":2336.357,"body":"badger populations. It reduces"},{"speaker":"Sarah Tomlinson","startTime":2336.357,"endTime":2338.837,"body":"that R number below down to"},{"speaker":"Sarah Tomlinson","startTime":2338.837,"endTime":2340.078,"body":"naught. So we're not going to"},{"speaker":"Sarah Tomlinson","startTime":2340.078,"endTime":2341.549,"body":"get one other badger spreading"},{"speaker":"Sarah Tomlinson","startTime":2341.549,"endTime":2344.53,"body":"it to another badger. And my"},{"speaker":"Sarah Tomlinson","startTime":2344.53,"endTime":2346.209,"body":"common sense, very practical"},{"speaker":"Sarah Tomlinson","startTime":2346.209,"endTime":2348.613,"body":"mindset is if you've reduced the"},{"speaker":"Sarah Tomlinson","startTime":2348.613,"endTime":2350.424,"body":"badger density in areas, that"},{"speaker":"Sarah Tomlinson","startTime":2350.424,"endTime":2352.163,"body":"population is going to rise"},{"speaker":"Sarah Tomlinson","startTime":2352.163,"endTime":2355.762,"body":"again. And wouldn't it be better"},{"speaker":"Sarah Tomlinson","startTime":2355.762,"endTime":2358.034,"body":"that we have an immune"},{"speaker":"Sarah Tomlinson","startTime":2358.034,"endTime":2360.42,"body":"population that comes back? So"},{"speaker":"Sarah Tomlinson","startTime":2360.42,"endTime":2362.674,"body":"and there's people going out"},{"speaker":"Sarah Tomlinson","startTime":2362.674,"endTime":2364.929,"body":"there talking to farmers in"},{"speaker":"Sarah Tomlinson","startTime":2364.929,"endTime":2367.769,"body":"small groups, um, cull groups."},{"speaker":"Sarah Tomlinson","startTime":2367.769,"endTime":2369.57,"body":"And actually we are starting to"},{"speaker":"Sarah Tomlinson","startTime":2369.57,"endTime":2371.11,"body":"hear, well, we should give it a"},{"speaker":"Sarah Tomlinson","startTime":2371.11,"endTime":2373.07,"body":"go because it's better than"},{"speaker":"Sarah Tomlinson","startTime":2373.07,"endTime":2373.969,"body":"doing nothing."},{"speaker":"Andrew Jones","startTime":2374.329,"endTime":2375.015,"body":"We talked about"},{"speaker":"Andrew Jones","startTime":2375.015,"endTime":2376.123,"body":"the emotional toll earlier. I"},{"speaker":"Andrew Jones","startTime":2376.123,"endTime":2377.289,"body":"was just thinking back to when"},{"speaker":"Andrew Jones","startTime":2377.289,"endTime":2378.409,"body":"the badger cull started, the"},{"speaker":"Andrew Jones","startTime":2378.409,"endTime":2379.69,"body":"emotional toll I know on some"},{"speaker":"Andrew Jones","startTime":2379.69,"endTime":2381.69,"body":"farms that were like the, um,"},{"speaker":"Andrew Jones","startTime":2381.69,"endTime":2383.849,"body":"what's the word hub for their"},{"speaker":"Andrew Jones","startTime":2383.849,"endTime":2385.45,"body":"particular area? I can't think"},{"speaker":"Andrew Jones","startTime":2385.45,"endTime":2387.223,"body":"what the right term was that had"},{"speaker":"Andrew Jones","startTime":2387.223,"endTime":2388.697,"body":"an effect, because I know a few"},{"speaker":"Andrew Jones","startTime":2388.697,"endTime":2389.663,"body":"farms that were targeted once"},{"speaker":"Andrew Jones","startTime":2389.663,"endTime":2391.059,"body":"they were found out that they"},{"speaker":"Andrew Jones","startTime":2391.059,"endTime":2392.572,"body":"were the hub for their local"},{"speaker":"Andrew Jones","startTime":2392.572,"endTime":2394.841,"body":"area, they were targeted and it"},{"speaker":"Andrew Jones","startTime":2394.841,"endTime":2396.889,"body":"wasn't fair. And, and again, the"},{"speaker":"Andrew Jones","startTime":2396.889,"endTime":2398.609,"body":"effect that had on those"},{"speaker":"Andrew Jones","startTime":2398.609,"endTime":2400.834,"body":"families was, was massive. But"},{"speaker":"Andrew Jones","startTime":2400.834,"endTime":2404.338,"body":"how practically do they see it"},{"speaker":"Andrew Jones","startTime":2404.338,"endTime":2406.556,"body":"working that these vaccinations"},{"speaker":"Andrew Jones","startTime":2406.556,"endTime":2408.747,"body":"will work? I mean, do they know"},{"speaker":"Andrew Jones","startTime":2408.747,"endTime":2410.423,"body":"where every badger sett in the"},{"speaker":"Andrew Jones","startTime":2410.423,"endTime":2412.596,"body":"country is they know how to um,"},{"speaker":"Andrew Jones","startTime":2412.596,"endTime":2414.097,"body":"where to target, how are they"},{"speaker":"Andrew Jones","startTime":2414.097,"endTime":2415.312,"body":"going to deliver? I'm guessing"},{"speaker":"Andrew Jones","startTime":2415.312,"endTime":2416.536,"body":"it's not catch and jab. It's"},{"speaker":"Andrew Jones","startTime":2416.536,"endTime":2417.616,"body":"probably going to be in some"},{"speaker":"Andrew Jones","startTime":2417.616,"endTime":2418.99,"body":"kind of feed or something like"},{"speaker":"Andrew Jones","startTime":2418.99,"endTime":2420.38,"body":"that. I don't know, this is"},{"speaker":"Andrew Jones","startTime":2420.38,"endTime":2421.809,"body":"where I'm at. You're shaking."},{"speaker":"Andrew Jones","startTime":2421.809,"endTime":2423.09,"body":"You're looking at me. But I"},{"speaker":"Andrew Jones","startTime":2423.09,"endTime":2424.65,"body":"don't know. This is why I'm"},{"speaker":"Andrew Jones","startTime":2424.65,"endTime":2425.65,"body":"asking you the question."},{"speaker":"Sarah Tomlinson","startTime":2425.449,"endTime":2426.474,"body":"It is trapping"},{"speaker":"Sarah Tomlinson","startTime":2426.474,"endTime":2428.523,"body":"badgers exactly in the same way"},{"speaker":"Sarah Tomlinson","startTime":2428.523,"endTime":2431.01,"body":"as they did for the badger"},{"speaker":"Sarah Tomlinson","startTime":2431.01,"endTime":2433.357,"body":"culls. Um, and then literally"},{"speaker":"Sarah Tomlinson","startTime":2433.357,"endTime":2436.329,"body":"injecting them. And um, this has"},{"speaker":"Sarah Tomlinson","startTime":2436.329,"endTime":2438.024,"body":"been delivered really"},{"speaker":"Sarah Tomlinson","startTime":2438.024,"endTime":2440.726,"body":"successfully by farmers in a"},{"speaker":"Sarah Tomlinson","startTime":2440.726,"endTime":2443.062,"body":"pilot, I guess, um called the"},{"speaker":"Sarah Tomlinson","startTime":2443.062,"endTime":2445.498,"body":"VESBA pilot in vaccinating East"},{"speaker":"Sarah Tomlinson","startTime":2445.498,"endTime":2447.369,"body":"Sussex badgers, which again"},{"speaker":"Sarah Tomlinson","startTime":2447.369,"endTime":2448.57,"body":"farmers and vets got together"},{"speaker":"Sarah Tomlinson","startTime":2448.57,"endTime":2450.67,"body":"and said, right, we can't drum"},{"speaker":"Sarah Tomlinson","startTime":2450.67,"endTime":2452.449,"body":"up enough interest to get a"},{"speaker":"Sarah Tomlinson","startTime":2452.449,"endTime":2454.601,"body":"cull. They were obviously East"},{"speaker":"Sarah Tomlinson","startTime":2454.601,"endTime":2456.929,"body":"Sussex is quite close to London,"},{"speaker":"Sarah Tomlinson","startTime":2456.929,"endTime":2459.142,"body":"Brighton. Um and they just"},{"speaker":"Sarah Tomlinson","startTime":2459.142,"endTime":2460.417,"body":"thought that that wasn't going"},{"speaker":"Sarah Tomlinson","startTime":2460.417,"endTime":2462.484,"body":"to be acceptable. And they said"},{"speaker":"Sarah Tomlinson","startTime":2462.484,"endTime":2464.425,"body":"but what can we do. So the"},{"speaker":"Sarah Tomlinson","startTime":2464.425,"endTime":2466.461,"body":"farmers and the vets have"},{"speaker":"Sarah Tomlinson","startTime":2466.461,"endTime":2468.09,"body":"delivered this, not government,"},{"speaker":"Sarah Tomlinson","startTime":2468.09,"endTime":2470.728,"body":"not the wildlife groups. And it"},{"speaker":"Sarah Tomlinson","startTime":2470.728,"endTime":2473.139,"body":"is a very different way. And I"},{"speaker":"Sarah Tomlinson","startTime":2473.139,"endTime":2474.299,"body":"would recommend, if you want to"},{"speaker":"Sarah Tomlinson","startTime":2474.299,"endTime":2474.86,"body":"know more about badger"},{"speaker":"Sarah Tomlinson","startTime":2474.86,"endTime":2476.32,"body":"vaccination that you speak to,"},{"speaker":"Sarah Tomlinson","startTime":2476.32,"endTime":2477.94,"body":"um, those guys that have run"},{"speaker":"Sarah Tomlinson","startTime":2477.94,"endTime":2480.34,"body":"that project because, um, having"},{"speaker":"Sarah Tomlinson","startTime":2480.34,"endTime":2481.46,"body":"been in meetings, farmers are"},{"speaker":"Sarah Tomlinson","startTime":2481.46,"endTime":2482.859,"body":"quite skeptical. Can you get"},{"speaker":"Sarah Tomlinson","startTime":2482.859,"endTime":2483.992,"body":"enough badgers in the badger"},{"speaker":"Sarah Tomlinson","startTime":2483.992,"endTime":2485.26,"body":"traps? But in the calls you had"},{"speaker":"Sarah Tomlinson","startTime":2485.26,"endTime":2486.625,"body":"to hide them. You could only put"},{"speaker":"Sarah Tomlinson","startTime":2486.625,"endTime":2488.105,"body":"one or two out on the farm"},{"speaker":"Sarah Tomlinson","startTime":2488.105,"endTime":2489.919,"body":"because of the negative kind of,"},{"speaker":"Sarah Tomlinson","startTime":2489.919,"endTime":2492.28,"body":"um, we didn't want to shout"},{"speaker":"Sarah Tomlinson","startTime":2492.28,"endTime":2494.048,"body":"about it really. Whereas on"},{"speaker":"Sarah Tomlinson","startTime":2494.048,"endTime":2495.224,"body":"badger vaccination, you saturate"},{"speaker":"Sarah Tomlinson","startTime":2495.224,"endTime":2496.906,"body":"the farm, you know, put twenty"},{"speaker":"Sarah Tomlinson","startTime":2496.906,"endTime":2498.676,"body":"or thirty traps out and you do"},{"speaker":"Sarah Tomlinson","startTime":2498.676,"endTime":2500.232,"body":"get a lot of badgers. And"},{"speaker":"Sarah Tomlinson","startTime":2500.232,"endTime":2501.69,"body":"sometimes I've seen photos of"},{"speaker":"Sarah Tomlinson","startTime":2501.69,"endTime":2503.7,"body":"having a whole family sort of in"},{"speaker":"Sarah Tomlinson","startTime":2503.7,"endTime":2505.26,"body":"a trap because they've all gone"},{"speaker":"Sarah Tomlinson","startTime":2505.26,"endTime":2506.82,"body":"in and you've got an adult"},{"speaker":"Sarah Tomlinson","startTime":2506.82,"endTime":2508.652,"body":"badger and two cubs in there, so"},{"speaker":"Sarah Tomlinson","startTime":2508.652,"endTime":2510.309,"body":"you can vaccinate them. And if"},{"speaker":"Sarah Tomlinson","startTime":2510.309,"endTime":2512.368,"body":"you look at, um, I've got a"},{"speaker":"Sarah Tomlinson","startTime":2512.368,"endTime":2513.739,"body":"couple of slides that I've now"},{"speaker":"Sarah Tomlinson","startTime":2513.739,"endTime":2516.019,"body":"started sharing the IB TB map"},{"speaker":"Sarah Tomlinson","startTime":2516.019,"endTime":2517.3,"body":"that shows you every breakdown"},{"speaker":"Sarah Tomlinson","startTime":2517.3,"endTime":2519.34,"body":"herd in England over the last"},{"speaker":"Sarah Tomlinson","startTime":2519.34,"endTime":2521.31,"body":"ten years. When you look at when"},{"speaker":"Sarah Tomlinson","startTime":2521.31,"endTime":2522.619,"body":"they started, I think they had"},{"speaker":"Sarah Tomlinson","startTime":2522.619,"endTime":2525.036,"body":"fifteen or so. Um, don't quote"},{"speaker":"Sarah Tomlinson","startTime":2525.036,"endTime":2527.229,"body":"me on that breakdowns in this"},{"speaker":"Sarah Tomlinson","startTime":2527.229,"endTime":2530.019,"body":"patch They went down to none."},{"speaker":"Sarah Tomlinson","startTime":2530.019,"endTime":2532.5,"body":"They've just got one back again."},{"speaker":"Sarah Tomlinson","startTime":2532.5,"endTime":2534.846,"body":"That has had a history of"},{"speaker":"Sarah Tomlinson","startTime":2534.846,"endTime":2536.925,"body":"recurrence of TB. Um, so, you"},{"speaker":"Sarah Tomlinson","startTime":2536.925,"endTime":2538.434,"body":"know, very sadly they've gone"},{"speaker":"Sarah Tomlinson","startTime":2538.434,"endTime":2539.943,"body":"down again, but actually it"},{"speaker":"Sarah Tomlinson","startTime":2539.943,"endTime":2541.754,"body":"might not be that wildlife were"},{"speaker":"Sarah Tomlinson","startTime":2541.754,"endTime":2544.144,"body":"involved in that. So um, so"},{"speaker":"Sarah Tomlinson","startTime":2544.144,"endTime":2547.065,"body":"yeah, it wasn't set up as a"},{"speaker":"Sarah Tomlinson","startTime":2547.065,"endTime":2548.179,"body":"pilot to show that badger"},{"speaker":"Sarah Tomlinson","startTime":2548.179,"endTime":2549.579,"body":"vaccination reduced TB in"},{"speaker":"Sarah Tomlinson","startTime":2549.579,"endTime":2551.358,"body":"cattle. It was a pilot to show"},{"speaker":"Sarah Tomlinson","startTime":2551.358,"endTime":2552.577,"body":"that it could be delivered by"},{"speaker":"Sarah Tomlinson","startTime":2552.577,"endTime":2554.179,"body":"farmers and vets on the ground."},{"speaker":"Sarah Tomlinson","startTime":2554.179,"endTime":2556.121,"body":"But actually, I think it has"},{"speaker":"Sarah Tomlinson","startTime":2556.121,"endTime":2557.739,"body":"probably contributed to to the"},{"speaker":"Sarah Tomlinson","startTime":2557.739,"endTime":2559.26,"body":"reduction in those numbers."},{"speaker":"Andrew Jones","startTime":2559.78,"endTime":2560.48,"body":"And how long does"},{"speaker":"Andrew Jones","startTime":2560.48,"endTime":2562.779,"body":"it go on for? Is it like a week"},{"speaker":"Andrew Jones","startTime":2562.779,"endTime":2563.099,"body":"fortnight?"},{"speaker":"Sarah Tomlinson","startTime":2563.34,"endTime":2564.49,"body":"Um, so um what"},{"speaker":"Sarah Tomlinson","startTime":2564.49,"endTime":2566.503,"body":"they do is again, like the calls"},{"speaker":"Sarah Tomlinson","startTime":2566.503,"endTime":2568.72,"body":"were a kind of an intensive over"},{"speaker":"Sarah Tomlinson","startTime":2568.72,"endTime":2570.444,"body":"six weeks. The badger"},{"speaker":"Sarah Tomlinson","startTime":2570.444,"endTime":2572.466,"body":"vaccination period is a lot"},{"speaker":"Sarah Tomlinson","startTime":2572.466,"endTime":2574.26,"body":"longer and they tend to have"},{"speaker":"Sarah Tomlinson","startTime":2574.26,"endTime":2575.899,"body":"sort of teams of trappers that"},{"speaker":"Sarah Tomlinson","startTime":2575.899,"endTime":2577.593,"body":"will just do one or one farm,"},{"speaker":"Sarah Tomlinson","startTime":2577.593,"endTime":2579.368,"body":"maybe for a couple of weeks. You"},{"speaker":"Sarah Tomlinson","startTime":2579.368,"endTime":2580.98,"body":"go out, you put your peanuts"},{"speaker":"Sarah Tomlinson","startTime":2580.98,"endTime":2582.86,"body":"out, you sort of, um, set the"},{"speaker":"Sarah Tomlinson","startTime":2582.86,"endTime":2584.32,"body":"trap open to the Badger gets"},{"speaker":"Sarah Tomlinson","startTime":2584.32,"endTime":2586.068,"body":"used to going in and out. And"},{"speaker":"Sarah Tomlinson","startTime":2586.068,"endTime":2587.469,"body":"then for literally two nights,"},{"speaker":"Sarah Tomlinson","startTime":2587.469,"endTime":2590.161,"body":"they set the traps to trap. Um,"},{"speaker":"Sarah Tomlinson","startTime":2590.161,"endTime":2592.832,"body":"and then they'll do that farm or"},{"speaker":"Sarah Tomlinson","startTime":2592.832,"endTime":2595.153,"body":"a smaller area and then move on"},{"speaker":"Sarah Tomlinson","startTime":2595.153,"endTime":2596.66,"body":"to the next area. So you don't"},{"speaker":"Sarah Tomlinson","startTime":2596.66,"endTime":2598.472,"body":"have to do the whole area in one"},{"speaker":"Sarah Tomlinson","startTime":2598.472,"endTime":2600.739,"body":"night. So, um, so yeah, so for,"},{"speaker":"Sarah Tomlinson","startTime":2600.739,"endTime":2602.579,"body":"for that farm, they probably"},{"speaker":"Sarah Tomlinson","startTime":2602.579,"endTime":2603.42,"body":"wouldn't even know it was"},{"speaker":"Sarah Tomlinson","startTime":2603.42,"endTime":2604.659,"body":"happening because it's somebody"},{"speaker":"Sarah Tomlinson","startTime":2604.659,"endTime":2606.219,"body":"local that is trained as that"},{"speaker":"Sarah Tomlinson","startTime":2606.219,"endTime":2608.13,"body":"badger vaccinator. And I think"},{"speaker":"Sarah Tomlinson","startTime":2608.13,"endTime":2609.6,"body":"what they did in East Sussex was"},{"speaker":"Sarah Tomlinson","startTime":2609.6,"endTime":2612.635,"body":"they had sort of um, I suppose"},{"speaker":"Sarah Tomlinson","startTime":2612.635,"endTime":2614.78,"body":"seasonal work. So they, they"},{"speaker":"Sarah Tomlinson","startTime":2614.78,"endTime":2616.2,"body":"were lambing in the winter doing"},{"speaker":"Sarah Tomlinson","startTime":2616.2,"endTime":2617.739,"body":"all the sheep work. And then in"},{"speaker":"Sarah Tomlinson","startTime":2617.739,"endTime":2618.94,"body":"the summer there's less to do."},{"speaker":"Sarah Tomlinson","startTime":2618.94,"endTime":2619.9,"body":"So they were the people that"},{"speaker":"Sarah Tomlinson","startTime":2619.9,"endTime":2621.179,"body":"then said, oh well I'll train as"},{"speaker":"Sarah Tomlinson","startTime":2621.179,"endTime":2623.319,"body":"a vaccinator. Some of the"},{"speaker":"Sarah Tomlinson","startTime":2623.319,"endTime":2625.197,"body":"gamekeepers. Um so yeah, I, it's"},{"speaker":"Sarah Tomlinson","startTime":2625.197,"endTime":2626.946,"body":"using people you trust and you"},{"speaker":"Sarah Tomlinson","startTime":2626.946,"endTime":2628.647,"body":"know, on your farm to do it. And"},{"speaker":"Sarah Tomlinson","startTime":2628.647,"endTime":2629.546,"body":"they know your farm, they know"},{"speaker":"Sarah Tomlinson","startTime":2629.546,"endTime":2631.46,"body":"your land, they get to know you."},{"speaker":"Sarah Tomlinson","startTime":2631.46,"endTime":2633.46,"body":"Um, so yeah, it's, it's farmer"},{"speaker":"Sarah Tomlinson","startTime":2633.46,"endTime":2635.445,"body":"and vet led. What is happening"},{"speaker":"Sarah Tomlinson","startTime":2635.445,"endTime":2637.415,"body":"at the minute is the government"},{"speaker":"Sarah Tomlinson","startTime":2637.415,"endTime":2639.475,"body":"have, um, are going into three"},{"speaker":"Sarah Tomlinson","startTime":2639.475,"endTime":2641.265,"body":"counties to do um badger"},{"speaker":"Sarah Tomlinson","startTime":2641.265,"endTime":2643.127,"body":"vaccination that is being funded"},{"speaker":"Sarah Tomlinson","startTime":2643.127,"endTime":2645.489,"body":"by Defra but is being delivered"},{"speaker":"Sarah Tomlinson","startTime":2645.489,"endTime":2647.259,"body":"in that same model there,"},{"speaker":"Sarah Tomlinson","startTime":2647.259,"endTime":2648.731,"body":"recruiting local vets and local"},{"speaker":"Sarah Tomlinson","startTime":2648.731,"endTime":2650.499,"body":"farmers to do it. Because again,"},{"speaker":"Sarah Tomlinson","startTime":2650.499,"endTime":2651.594,"body":"you know, government can't"},{"speaker":"Sarah Tomlinson","startTime":2651.594,"endTime":2652.809,"body":"afford to do this across the"},{"speaker":"Sarah Tomlinson","startTime":2652.809,"endTime":2655.046,"body":"whole of the country. Um, I"},{"speaker":"Sarah Tomlinson","startTime":2655.046,"endTime":2656.701,"body":"speak to lots of farmer groups"},{"speaker":"Sarah Tomlinson","startTime":2656.701,"endTime":2657.843,"body":"and I'm talking about post"},{"speaker":"Sarah Tomlinson","startTime":2657.843,"endTime":2659.499,"body":"culling, badger vaccination. And"},{"speaker":"Sarah Tomlinson","startTime":2659.499,"endTime":2660.845,"body":"they're like, oh, but there"},{"speaker":"Sarah Tomlinson","startTime":2660.845,"endTime":2662.19,"body":"isn't funding available for us."},{"speaker":"Sarah Tomlinson","startTime":2662.19,"endTime":2664.03,"body":"But I would argue that there are"},{"speaker":"Sarah Tomlinson","startTime":2664.03,"endTime":2665.23,"body":"other pots of money maybe you"},{"speaker":"Sarah Tomlinson","startTime":2665.23,"endTime":2666.903,"body":"could use. So like there's"},{"speaker":"Sarah Tomlinson","startTime":2666.903,"endTime":2668.389,"body":"farming in protected landscapes."},{"speaker":"Sarah Tomlinson","startTime":2668.389,"endTime":2669.75,"body":"There's, um, you know, if you've"},{"speaker":"Sarah Tomlinson","startTime":2669.75,"endTime":2671.789,"body":"got your local water authority"},{"speaker":"Sarah Tomlinson","startTime":2671.789,"endTime":2673.01,"body":"that are going want access to"},{"speaker":"Sarah Tomlinson","startTime":2673.01,"endTime":2674.349,"body":"the land and often they've got"},{"speaker":"Sarah Tomlinson","startTime":2674.349,"endTime":2676.11,"body":"pots of money to support, you"},{"speaker":"Sarah Tomlinson","startTime":2676.11,"endTime":2678.69,"body":"know, um, doing something, um,"},{"speaker":"Sarah Tomlinson","startTime":2678.69,"endTime":2680.269,"body":"electricity pylons going"},{"speaker":"Sarah Tomlinson","startTime":2680.269,"endTime":2681.51,"body":"through, you know, they'll often"},{"speaker":"Sarah Tomlinson","startTime":2681.51,"endTime":2683.11,"body":"have pots of money to support"},{"speaker":"Sarah Tomlinson","startTime":2683.11,"endTime":2685.69,"body":"those farmers. Um, so I think we"},{"speaker":"Sarah Tomlinson","startTime":2685.69,"endTime":2687.374,"body":"can be clever about it. And"},{"speaker":"Sarah Tomlinson","startTime":2687.374,"endTime":2689.394,"body":"actually some farmers might"},{"speaker":"Sarah Tomlinson","startTime":2689.394,"endTime":2691.75,"body":"disagree with me. If you want to"},{"speaker":"Sarah Tomlinson","startTime":2691.75,"endTime":2693.789,"body":"protect your herd, it's an"},{"speaker":"Sarah Tomlinson","startTime":2693.789,"endTime":2695.421,"body":"investment, you know, let's not"},{"speaker":"Sarah Tomlinson","startTime":2695.421,"endTime":2696.389,"body":"wait for government to come"},{"speaker":"Sarah Tomlinson","startTime":2696.389,"endTime":2697.485,"body":"along and vaccinate, because if"},{"speaker":"Sarah Tomlinson","startTime":2697.485,"endTime":2699.306,"body":"they can only afford to do your"},{"speaker":"Sarah Tomlinson","startTime":2699.306,"endTime":2700.716,"body":"county in another ten years, it"},{"speaker":"Sarah Tomlinson","startTime":2700.716,"endTime":2703.27,"body":"might be too late. So you can do"},{"speaker":"Sarah Tomlinson","startTime":2703.27,"endTime":2704.889,"body":"it privately, I guess, is what"},{"speaker":"Sarah Tomlinson","startTime":2704.889,"endTime":2705.429,"body":"I'm saying."},{"speaker":"Andrew Jones","startTime":2705.269,"endTime":2706.23,"body":"Yeah, yeah, yeah."},{"speaker":"Andrew Jones","startTime":2706.23,"endTime":2707.63,"body":"There's there's ways and means."},{"speaker":"Andrew Jones","startTime":2707.63,"endTime":2709.21,"body":"It depends how much you want to"},{"speaker":"Andrew Jones","startTime":2709.21,"endTime":2710.67,"body":"commit yourself, I guess"},{"speaker":"Andrew Jones","startTime":2710.67,"endTime":2713.41,"body":"ultimately. Um, next one it said"},{"speaker":"Andrew Jones","startTime":2713.41,"endTime":2714.789,"body":"was cattle remain the priority."},{"speaker":"Andrew Jones","startTime":2714.789,"endTime":2715.802,"body":"And you sort of said that a"},{"speaker":"Andrew Jones","startTime":2715.802,"endTime":2716.67,"body":"little bit before, but do you"},{"speaker":"Andrew Jones","startTime":2716.67,"endTime":2719.11,"body":"want to expand on, on that?"},{"speaker":"Sarah Tomlinson","startTime":2718.949,"endTime":2719.483,"body":"Yeah. And"},{"speaker":"Sarah Tomlinson","startTime":2719.483,"endTime":2721.083,"body":"again, the sort of headline has"},{"speaker":"Sarah Tomlinson","startTime":2721.083,"endTime":2722.774,"body":"been that we know the majority"},{"speaker":"Sarah Tomlinson","startTime":2722.774,"endTime":2724.645,"body":"of transmission of TB is cattle"},{"speaker":"Sarah Tomlinson","startTime":2724.645,"endTime":2726.254,"body":"to cattle. And I think people"},{"speaker":"Sarah Tomlinson","startTime":2726.254,"endTime":2727.731,"body":"have gone well, we know badgers"},{"speaker":"Sarah Tomlinson","startTime":2727.731,"endTime":2730.369,"body":"are a main part of this. Um, if"},{"speaker":"Sarah Tomlinson","startTime":2730.369,"endTime":2732.086,"body":"you think about it, if a badger"},{"speaker":"Sarah Tomlinson","startTime":2732.086,"endTime":2734.336,"body":"brings TB into the herd, it will"},{"speaker":"Sarah Tomlinson","startTime":2734.336,"endTime":2735.944,"body":"then spread within the herd. So"},{"speaker":"Sarah Tomlinson","startTime":2735.944,"endTime":2737.349,"body":"we, we do know that cattle"},{"speaker":"Sarah Tomlinson","startTime":2737.349,"endTime":2738.55,"body":"cattle transmission is the"},{"speaker":"Sarah Tomlinson","startTime":2738.55,"endTime":2740.61,"body":"biggest focus. And I think"},{"speaker":"Sarah Tomlinson","startTime":2740.61,"endTime":2742.03,"body":"we've, we've done the badger"},{"speaker":"Sarah Tomlinson","startTime":2742.03,"endTime":2743.827,"body":"bit, we've done the culling. And"},{"speaker":"Sarah Tomlinson","startTime":2743.827,"endTime":2745.246,"body":"actually now the focus does need"},{"speaker":"Sarah Tomlinson","startTime":2745.246,"endTime":2746.742,"body":"to be on that endemic disease"},{"speaker":"Sarah Tomlinson","startTime":2746.742,"endTime":2748.305,"body":"within some of these larger"},{"speaker":"Sarah Tomlinson","startTime":2748.305,"endTime":2750.629,"body":"herds that, you know, are in and"},{"speaker":"Sarah Tomlinson","startTime":2750.629,"endTime":2752.533,"body":"out of TB restrictions. We know"},{"speaker":"Sarah Tomlinson","startTime":2752.533,"endTime":2753.869,"body":"they're not going to be going"},{"speaker":"Sarah Tomlinson","startTime":2753.869,"endTime":2755.697,"body":"infection free when they do"},{"speaker":"Sarah Tomlinson","startTime":2755.697,"endTime":2756.929,"body":"their two clear consecutive"},{"speaker":"Sarah Tomlinson","startTime":2756.929,"endTime":2759.43,"body":"tests. And farmers know that,"},{"speaker":"Sarah Tomlinson","startTime":2759.43,"endTime":2761.43,"body":"hence the want to use those more"},{"speaker":"Sarah Tomlinson","startTime":2761.43,"endTime":2763.863,"body":"sensitive tests. So, um, what"},{"speaker":"Sarah Tomlinson","startTime":2763.863,"endTime":2765.917,"body":"the strategy talks about is"},{"speaker":"Sarah Tomlinson","startTime":2765.917,"endTime":2767.73,"body":"actually where we've got herds"},{"speaker":"Sarah Tomlinson","startTime":2767.73,"endTime":2770.05,"body":"where we know there is a lot of"},{"speaker":"Sarah Tomlinson","startTime":2770.05,"endTime":2771.63,"body":"endemic infection, maybe we do"},{"speaker":"Sarah Tomlinson","startTime":2771.63,"endTime":2774.297,"body":"need to go in and do more, more"},{"speaker":"Sarah Tomlinson","startTime":2774.297,"endTime":2775.727,"body":"testing. Um, so there is"},{"speaker":"Sarah Tomlinson","startTime":2775.727,"endTime":2777.646,"body":"probably going to be more use of"},{"speaker":"Sarah Tomlinson","startTime":2777.646,"endTime":2779.989,"body":"the gamma test in some of those"},{"speaker":"Sarah Tomlinson","startTime":2779.989,"endTime":2781.129,"body":"persistently infected herds,"},{"speaker":"Sarah Tomlinson","startTime":2781.129,"endTime":2783.069,"body":"which will have impacts on"},{"speaker":"Sarah Tomlinson","startTime":2783.069,"endTime":2784.803,"body":"businesses. You know, I say to"},{"speaker":"Sarah Tomlinson","startTime":2784.803,"endTime":2786.437,"body":"farmers, expect to lose five to"},{"speaker":"Sarah Tomlinson","startTime":2786.437,"endTime":2787.639,"body":"ten percent of your herd if you"},{"speaker":"Sarah Tomlinson","startTime":2787.639,"endTime":2790.276,"body":"do a gamma test. So but what the"},{"speaker":"Sarah Tomlinson","startTime":2790.276,"endTime":2792.107,"body":"strategy does look at is how we"},{"speaker":"Sarah Tomlinson","startTime":2792.107,"endTime":2793.678,"body":"can support those businesses,"},{"speaker":"Sarah Tomlinson","startTime":2793.678,"endTime":2797.345,"body":"um, to be able to manage that"},{"speaker":"Sarah Tomlinson","startTime":2797.345,"endTime":2799.374,"body":"impact. Um, and the governance"},{"speaker":"Sarah Tomlinson","startTime":2799.374,"endTime":2801.349,"body":"and finance group, one of their"},{"speaker":"Sarah Tomlinson","startTime":2801.349,"endTime":2803.809,"body":"questions to talk about was how,"},{"speaker":"Sarah Tomlinson","startTime":2803.809,"endTime":2805.429,"body":"how could we financially support"},{"speaker":"Sarah Tomlinson","startTime":2805.429,"endTime":2807.749,"body":"those farmers? We saw in Covid,"},{"speaker":"Sarah Tomlinson","startTime":2807.749,"endTime":2809.729,"body":"the, the sort of bounce back"},{"speaker":"Sarah Tomlinson","startTime":2809.729,"endTime":2811.73,"body":"loans that businesses could"},{"speaker":"Sarah Tomlinson","startTime":2811.73,"endTime":2815.31,"body":"access with. And so, so I think"},{"speaker":"Sarah Tomlinson","startTime":2815.31,"endTime":2817.102,"body":"that hasn't completely been"},{"speaker":"Sarah Tomlinson","startTime":2817.102,"endTime":2818.592,"body":"explored. Um, because the"},{"speaker":"Sarah Tomlinson","startTime":2818.592,"endTime":2821.024,"body":"governance bit took up a lot of"},{"speaker":"Sarah Tomlinson","startTime":2821.024,"endTime":2822.733,"body":"that time. But I think that's"},{"speaker":"Sarah Tomlinson","startTime":2822.733,"endTime":2823.747,"body":"something that hopefully this"},{"speaker":"Sarah Tomlinson","startTime":2823.747,"endTime":2825.157,"body":"delivery board might look at if"},{"speaker":"Sarah Tomlinson","startTime":2825.157,"endTime":2826.776,"body":"we are going to go into these"},{"speaker":"Sarah Tomlinson","startTime":2826.776,"endTime":2829.054,"body":"herds and use, um, more"},{"speaker":"Sarah Tomlinson","startTime":2829.054,"endTime":2830.869,"body":"sensitive tests through"},{"speaker":"Sarah Tomlinson","startTime":2830.869,"endTime":2832.832,"body":"statutory measures, we've got to"},{"speaker":"Sarah Tomlinson","startTime":2832.832,"endTime":2834.087,"body":"be able to support those"},{"speaker":"Sarah Tomlinson","startTime":2834.087,"endTime":2835.666,"body":"businesses and those people as"},{"speaker":"Sarah Tomlinson","startTime":2835.666,"endTime":2836.079,"body":"well."},{"speaker":"Andrew Jones","startTime":2836.719,"endTime":2837.391,"body":"I just had a"},{"speaker":"Andrew Jones","startTime":2837.391,"endTime":2838.661,"body":"thought. We keep talking about"},{"speaker":"Andrew Jones","startTime":2838.661,"endTime":2840.039,"body":"badgers, but what about deer?"},{"speaker":"Sarah Tomlinson","startTime":2840.44,"endTime":2841.331,"body":"So, um, there"},{"speaker":"Sarah Tomlinson","startTime":2841.331,"endTime":2843.729,"body":"has been quite a lot of work"},{"speaker":"Sarah Tomlinson","startTime":2843.729,"endTime":2845.63,"body":"done recently on deer"},{"speaker":"Sarah Tomlinson","startTime":2845.63,"endTime":2847.426,"body":"populations. And what they are"},{"speaker":"Sarah Tomlinson","startTime":2847.426,"endTime":2849.086,"body":"finding is that not all deer"},{"speaker":"Sarah Tomlinson","startTime":2849.086,"endTime":2851.302,"body":"species are the same risk. Um,"},{"speaker":"Sarah Tomlinson","startTime":2851.302,"endTime":2852.943,"body":"again, I can put you in touch"},{"speaker":"Sarah Tomlinson","startTime":2852.943,"endTime":2854.317,"body":"with awesome people that can"},{"speaker":"Sarah Tomlinson","startTime":2854.317,"endTime":2855.42,"body":"talk to you a lot more about"},{"speaker":"Sarah Tomlinson","startTime":2855.42,"endTime":2857.199,"body":"deer and, and the risk from"},{"speaker":"Sarah Tomlinson","startTime":2857.199,"endTime":2860.397,"body":"deer. Um, I suppose I always say"},{"speaker":"Sarah Tomlinson","startTime":2860.397,"endTime":2862.474,"body":"that dear Aunt Control aren't on"},{"speaker":"Sarah Tomlinson","startTime":2862.474,"endTime":2865.244,"body":"a protected species list. Um,"},{"speaker":"Sarah Tomlinson","startTime":2865.244,"endTime":2868.066,"body":"and actually we can locally"},{"speaker":"Sarah Tomlinson","startTime":2868.066,"endTime":2870.326,"body":"control deer populations. I know"},{"speaker":"Sarah Tomlinson","startTime":2870.326,"endTime":2872.308,"body":"it's not as easy as that, but"},{"speaker":"Sarah Tomlinson","startTime":2872.308,"endTime":2873.773,"body":"the strategy talks about this"},{"speaker":"Sarah Tomlinson","startTime":2873.773,"endTime":2875.22,"body":"local ownership. And actually if"},{"speaker":"Sarah Tomlinson","startTime":2875.22,"endTime":2876.528,"body":"that group comes together, the"},{"speaker":"Sarah Tomlinson","startTime":2876.528,"endTime":2878.4,"body":"farmers and the vets and local"},{"speaker":"Sarah Tomlinson","startTime":2878.4,"endTime":2880.439,"body":"APHA and says, you know what, we"},{"speaker":"Sarah Tomlinson","startTime":2880.439,"endTime":2882.02,"body":"have got these deer species that"},{"speaker":"Sarah Tomlinson","startTime":2882.02,"endTime":2884.133,"body":"we have found TB in, and the"},{"speaker":"Sarah Tomlinson","startTime":2884.133,"endTime":2885.15,"body":"whole genome sequencing"},{"speaker":"Sarah Tomlinson","startTime":2885.15,"endTime":2886.7,"body":"information tells us it's the"},{"speaker":"Sarah Tomlinson","startTime":2886.7,"endTime":2888.459,"body":"same TB as we've got in our"},{"speaker":"Sarah Tomlinson","startTime":2888.459,"endTime":2890.228,"body":"cattle. You know, we've we've"},{"speaker":"Sarah Tomlinson","startTime":2890.228,"endTime":2891.664,"body":"got these coal companies, we've"},{"speaker":"Sarah Tomlinson","startTime":2891.664,"endTime":2893.338,"body":"got people that are trained as"},{"speaker":"Sarah Tomlinson","startTime":2893.338,"endTime":2894.711,"body":"stalkers that have have worked"},{"speaker":"Sarah Tomlinson","startTime":2894.711,"endTime":2896.467,"body":"on these these calls, you know,"},{"speaker":"Sarah Tomlinson","startTime":2896.467,"endTime":2898.579,"body":"could there be a local effort to"},{"speaker":"Sarah Tomlinson","startTime":2898.579,"endTime":2902.273,"body":"reduce badger deer density? And"},{"speaker":"Sarah Tomlinson","startTime":2902.273,"endTime":2903.84,"body":"the promise is within the"},{"speaker":"Sarah Tomlinson","startTime":2903.84,"endTime":2905.719,"body":"strategy is that those deer will"},{"speaker":"Sarah Tomlinson","startTime":2905.719,"endTime":2908.273,"body":"go into surveillance. So we're"},{"speaker":"Sarah Tomlinson","startTime":2908.273,"endTime":2910.212,"body":"not just going to kind of we're"},{"speaker":"Sarah Tomlinson","startTime":2910.212,"endTime":2911.742,"body":"going to record, I suppose,"},{"speaker":"Sarah Tomlinson","startTime":2911.742,"endTime":2914.273,"body":"what's in the deer and also"},{"speaker":"Sarah Tomlinson","startTime":2914.273,"endTime":2916.204,"body":"found dead badgers, which is"},{"speaker":"Sarah Tomlinson","startTime":2916.204,"endTime":2917.668,"body":"what they've been doing in Wales"},{"speaker":"Sarah Tomlinson","startTime":2917.668,"endTime":2918.4,"body":"for many years."},{"speaker":"Andrew Jones","startTime":2918.88,"endTime":2919.6,"body":"I was going to"},{"speaker":"Andrew Jones","startTime":2919.6,"endTime":2920.319,"body":"say, because anecdotally, I'd"},{"speaker":"Andrew Jones","startTime":2920.319,"endTime":2921.399,"body":"say there's definitely more deer"},{"speaker":"Andrew Jones","startTime":2921.399,"endTime":2922.84,"body":"around than there used to be."},{"speaker":"Sarah Tomlinson","startTime":2922.679,"endTime":2924.175,"body":"Yeah. And I"},{"speaker":"Sarah Tomlinson","startTime":2924.175,"endTime":2927.665,"body":"think again, um, the sort of the"},{"speaker":"Sarah Tomlinson","startTime":2927.665,"endTime":2930.456,"body":"focus is on reducing TB in"},{"speaker":"Sarah Tomlinson","startTime":2930.456,"endTime":2933.246,"body":"cattle and the sort of goal is"},{"speaker":"Sarah Tomlinson","startTime":2933.246,"endTime":2935.36,"body":"that any reservoir of infection"},{"speaker":"Sarah Tomlinson","startTime":2935.36,"endTime":2937.96,"body":"in other species, including non"},{"speaker":"Sarah Tomlinson","startTime":2937.96,"endTime":2940.77,"body":"farmed bovines. So pigs or"},{"speaker":"Sarah Tomlinson","startTime":2940.77,"endTime":2943.084,"body":"camelids. Don't stop us"},{"speaker":"Sarah Tomlinson","startTime":2943.084,"endTime":2945.066,"body":"achieving officially TB freedom"},{"speaker":"Sarah Tomlinson","startTime":2945.066,"endTime":2947.706,"body":"by 2038. Um, but yeah, and this"},{"speaker":"Sarah Tomlinson","startTime":2947.706,"endTime":2949.477,"body":"is where we need to be better at"},{"speaker":"Sarah Tomlinson","startTime":2949.477,"endTime":2951.936,"body":"not just talking about TB in"},{"speaker":"Sarah Tomlinson","startTime":2951.936,"endTime":2954.12,"body":"isolation. We need to talk to"},{"speaker":"Sarah Tomlinson","startTime":2954.12,"endTime":2955.464,"body":"those different, um, areas,"},{"speaker":"Sarah Tomlinson","startTime":2955.464,"endTime":2957.409,"body":"maybe forestry that are equally"},{"speaker":"Sarah Tomlinson","startTime":2957.409,"endTime":2959.42,"body":"impacted by a growing deer"},{"speaker":"Sarah Tomlinson","startTime":2959.42,"endTime":2960.97,"body":"population, different types of"},{"speaker":"Sarah Tomlinson","startTime":2960.97,"endTime":2962.763,"body":"farming that are impacted. I"},{"speaker":"Sarah Tomlinson","startTime":2962.763,"endTime":2964.468,"body":"don't know, but we need to come"},{"speaker":"Sarah Tomlinson","startTime":2964.468,"endTime":2965.595,"body":"together because everyone might"},{"speaker":"Sarah Tomlinson","startTime":2965.595,"endTime":2968.367,"body":"have the same, the same kind of,"},{"speaker":"Sarah Tomlinson","startTime":2968.367,"endTime":2969.159,"body":"um, solution."},{"speaker":"Andrew Jones","startTime":2969.48,"endTime":2970.888,"body":"Next on the list"},{"speaker":"Andrew Jones","startTime":2970.888,"endTime":2972.648,"body":"herd risk scores to be"},{"speaker":"Andrew Jones","startTime":2972.648,"endTime":2973.0,"body":"published."},{"speaker":"Sarah Tomlinson","startTime":2973.079,"endTime":2974.839,"body":"So I found out"},{"speaker":"Sarah Tomlinson","startTime":2974.839,"endTime":2977.668,"body":"in this process, I kind of knew"},{"speaker":"Sarah Tomlinson","startTime":2977.668,"endTime":2979.513,"body":"that APHA risk score every"},{"speaker":"Sarah Tomlinson","startTime":2979.513,"endTime":2981.693,"body":"cattle herd in the in England"},{"speaker":"Sarah Tomlinson","startTime":2981.693,"endTime":2984.393,"body":"and probably Wales as well. So"},{"speaker":"Sarah Tomlinson","startTime":2984.393,"endTime":2987.426,"body":"they knew this is what they use"},{"speaker":"Sarah Tomlinson","startTime":2987.426,"endTime":2989.451,"body":"to help manage breakdowns. And"},{"speaker":"Sarah Tomlinson","startTime":2989.451,"endTime":2991.203,"body":"it's based on the number of"},{"speaker":"Sarah Tomlinson","startTime":2991.203,"endTime":2992.766,"body":"years TB free. And also"},{"speaker":"Sarah Tomlinson","startTime":2992.766,"endTime":2994.319,"body":"depending on what you you're"},{"speaker":"Sarah Tomlinson","startTime":2994.319,"endTime":2995.74,"body":"buying in and the risk of those"},{"speaker":"Sarah Tomlinson","startTime":2995.74,"endTime":2997.361,"body":"animals. So it's not it's a"},{"speaker":"Sarah Tomlinson","startTime":2997.361,"endTime":2998.378,"body":"little bit complicated. We're"},{"speaker":"Sarah Tomlinson","startTime":2998.378,"endTime":3000.017,"body":"hoping to have an explanation of"},{"speaker":"Sarah Tomlinson","startTime":3000.017,"endTime":3002.06,"body":"them going up onto the TB hub so"},{"speaker":"Sarah Tomlinson","startTime":3002.06,"endTime":3004.87,"body":"people can understand. But as a"},{"speaker":"Sarah Tomlinson","startTime":3004.87,"endTime":3007.229,"body":"vet, I didn't know farmers had"},{"speaker":"Sarah Tomlinson","startTime":3007.229,"endTime":3008.99,"body":"these farmers don't know they"},{"speaker":"Sarah Tomlinson","startTime":3008.99,"endTime":3010.97,"body":"have them. So one thing we said"},{"speaker":"Sarah Tomlinson","startTime":3010.97,"endTime":3012.458,"body":"was tell the farmers what their"},{"speaker":"Sarah Tomlinson","startTime":3012.458,"endTime":3014.929,"body":"risk score is. So actually you"},{"speaker":"Sarah Tomlinson","startTime":3014.929,"endTime":3017.449,"body":"can say, right, this is my risk"},{"speaker":"Sarah Tomlinson","startTime":3017.449,"endTime":3018.925,"body":"score. And importantly, support"},{"speaker":"Sarah Tomlinson","startTime":3018.925,"endTime":3021.158,"body":"the advisors on that farm and"},{"speaker":"Sarah Tomlinson","startTime":3021.158,"endTime":3023.149,"body":"the farmer to understand how"},{"speaker":"Sarah Tomlinson","startTime":3023.149,"endTime":3025.066,"body":"they can influence that. Um,"},{"speaker":"Sarah Tomlinson","startTime":3025.066,"endTime":3026.549,"body":"it's quite hard to change"},{"speaker":"Sarah Tomlinson","startTime":3026.549,"endTime":3028.329,"body":"because it's the years TB free."},{"speaker":"Sarah Tomlinson","startTime":3028.329,"endTime":3030.49,"body":"So it's not something you can"},{"speaker":"Sarah Tomlinson","startTime":3030.49,"endTime":3031.882,"body":"change overnight. But actually"},{"speaker":"Sarah Tomlinson","startTime":3031.882,"endTime":3034.57,"body":"if I know I want to buy some"},{"speaker":"Sarah Tomlinson","startTime":3034.57,"endTime":3036.843,"body":"cattle from Sarah and I know she"},{"speaker":"Sarah Tomlinson","startTime":3036.843,"endTime":3038.623,"body":"knows her risk score, I could"},{"speaker":"Sarah Tomlinson","startTime":3038.623,"endTime":3039.809,"body":"ask her for it."},{"speaker":"Sarah Bolt","startTime":3040.289,"endTime":3041.249,"body":"So how long have"},{"speaker":"Sarah Bolt","startTime":3041.249,"endTime":3042.45,"body":"these risk scores been around"},{"speaker":"Sarah Bolt","startTime":3042.45,"endTime":3042.69,"body":"Sarah."},{"speaker":"Sarah Tomlinson","startTime":3042.53,"endTime":3044.05,"body":"Yes, yes, APHA"},{"speaker":"Sarah Tomlinson","startTime":3044.05,"endTime":3046.218,"body":"have used them. Um and so"},{"speaker":"Sarah Tomlinson","startTime":3046.218,"endTime":3047.513,"body":"actually, and if Sarah says I"},{"speaker":"Sarah Tomlinson","startTime":3047.513,"endTime":3049.056,"body":"don't want to tell you my risk"},{"speaker":"Sarah Tomlinson","startTime":3049.056,"endTime":3050.749,"body":"score, I might go, mm. Maybe I"},{"speaker":"Sarah Tomlinson","startTime":3050.749,"endTime":3052.389,"body":"don't want to buy from Sarah. Or"},{"speaker":"Sarah Tomlinson","startTime":3052.389,"endTime":3054.457,"body":"if she tells me she's a low risk"},{"speaker":"Sarah Tomlinson","startTime":3054.457,"endTime":3055.75,"body":"score, I go, okay, Andrew,"},{"speaker":"Sarah Tomlinson","startTime":3055.75,"endTime":3057.164,"body":"you're a bit higher. I'm going"},{"speaker":"Sarah Tomlinson","startTime":3057.164,"endTime":3058.712,"body":"to go with Sarah's cattle. So"},{"speaker":"Sarah Tomlinson","startTime":3058.712,"endTime":3060.293,"body":"it's allowing people to use the"},{"speaker":"Sarah Tomlinson","startTime":3060.293,"endTime":3061.61,"body":"best information to make the"},{"speaker":"Sarah Tomlinson","startTime":3061.61,"endTime":3063.25,"body":"best decisions for their farms."},{"speaker":"Sarah Bolt","startTime":3063.53,"endTime":3064.322,"body":"Um, that data's"},{"speaker":"Sarah Bolt","startTime":3064.322,"endTime":3066.17,"body":"already there to be able to use."},{"speaker":"Sarah Bolt","startTime":3066.17,"endTime":3067.97,"body":"It makes so much more sense,"},{"speaker":"Sarah Bolt","startTime":3067.97,"endTime":3068.57,"body":"doesn't it?"},{"speaker":"Sarah Tomlinson","startTime":3068.369,"endTime":3069.132,"body":"And then maybe"},{"speaker":"Sarah Tomlinson","startTime":3069.132,"endTime":3070.833,"body":"in four or five years time when"},{"speaker":"Sarah Tomlinson","startTime":3070.833,"endTime":3072.302,"body":"people have started to get used"},{"speaker":"Sarah Tomlinson","startTime":3072.302,"endTime":3074.314,"body":"to asking this, we might get"},{"speaker":"Sarah Tomlinson","startTime":3074.314,"endTime":3076.023,"body":"farmers going, why isn't this in"},{"speaker":"Sarah Tomlinson","startTime":3076.023,"endTime":3078.189,"body":"the public domain? It should be"},{"speaker":"Sarah Tomlinson","startTime":3078.189,"endTime":3079.153,"body":"published everybody's risk"},{"speaker":"Sarah Tomlinson","startTime":3079.153,"endTime":3081.105,"body":"score, which we don't want to do"},{"speaker":"Sarah Tomlinson","startTime":3081.105,"endTime":3081.95,"body":"immediately, because I think"},{"speaker":"Sarah Tomlinson","startTime":3081.95,"endTime":3083.263,"body":"that would upset a lot of people"},{"speaker":"Sarah Tomlinson","startTime":3083.263,"endTime":3084.543,"body":"because they haven't had time to"},{"speaker":"Sarah Tomlinson","startTime":3084.543,"endTime":3086.674,"body":"manage their own risk scores and"},{"speaker":"Sarah Tomlinson","startTime":3086.674,"endTime":3088.76,"body":"influence them. And nobody wants"},{"speaker":"Sarah Tomlinson","startTime":3088.76,"endTime":3090.934,"body":"that kind of their, their, their"},{"speaker":"Sarah Tomlinson","startTime":3090.934,"endTime":3092.929,"body":"information sharing publicly."},{"speaker":"Sarah Tomlinson","startTime":3092.929,"endTime":3094.53,"body":"But I think the industry would"},{"speaker":"Sarah Tomlinson","startTime":3094.53,"endTime":3096.01,"body":"start to ask for that in the"},{"speaker":"Sarah Tomlinson","startTime":3096.01,"endTime":3099.229,"body":"future. So, so, so again, it was"},{"speaker":"Sarah Tomlinson","startTime":3099.229,"endTime":3101.01,"body":"it was the recommendation"},{"speaker":"Sarah Tomlinson","startTime":3101.01,"endTime":3102.626,"body":"reflects the conversations that"},{"speaker":"Sarah Tomlinson","startTime":3102.626,"endTime":3104.329,"body":"were had in those rooms that"},{"speaker":"Sarah Tomlinson","startTime":3104.329,"endTime":3105.743,"body":"let's not knee jerk, just"},{"speaker":"Sarah Tomlinson","startTime":3105.743,"endTime":3108.01,"body":"publish it in the public domain."},{"speaker":"Sarah Tomlinson","startTime":3108.01,"endTime":3109.153,"body":"Let's just tell farmers what"},{"speaker":"Sarah Tomlinson","startTime":3109.153,"endTime":3110.87,"body":"they are. They can then have a"},{"speaker":"Sarah Tomlinson","startTime":3110.87,"endTime":3112.13,"body":"conversation with their vet and"},{"speaker":"Sarah Tomlinson","startTime":3112.13,"endTime":3114.13,"body":"they can start to, to understand"},{"speaker":"Sarah Tomlinson","startTime":3114.13,"endTime":3115.13,"body":"what they mean."},{"speaker":"Andrew Jones","startTime":3115.329,"endTime":3116.501,"body":"Mhm. So. So as you"},{"speaker":"Andrew Jones","startTime":3116.501,"endTime":3117.907,"body":"say, they've been using this for"},{"speaker":"Andrew Jones","startTime":3117.907,"endTime":3119.24,"body":"a long time without anybody"},{"speaker":"Andrew Jones","startTime":3119.24,"endTime":3121.13,"body":"knowing that this was going on."},{"speaker":"Sarah Tomlinson","startTime":3120.969,"endTime":3121.394,"body":"Yeah. Yeah."},{"speaker":"Sarah Tomlinson","startTime":3121.394,"endTime":3122.88,"body":"And, and it kind of links to"},{"speaker":"Sarah Tomlinson","startTime":3122.88,"endTime":3124.102,"body":"another part of the strategy"},{"speaker":"Sarah Tomlinson","startTime":3124.102,"endTime":3125.593,"body":"recommendations about being more"},{"speaker":"Sarah Tomlinson","startTime":3125.593,"endTime":3127.077,"body":"transparent about why decisions"},{"speaker":"Sarah Tomlinson","startTime":3127.077,"endTime":3129.281,"body":"are made on how herd management,"},{"speaker":"Sarah Tomlinson","startTime":3129.281,"endTime":3131.267,"body":"why some people get one test,"},{"speaker":"Sarah Tomlinson","startTime":3131.267,"endTime":3132.816,"body":"why some people get two, why"},{"speaker":"Sarah Tomlinson","startTime":3132.816,"endTime":3134.219,"body":"some people get gamma. Just"},{"speaker":"Sarah Tomlinson","startTime":3134.219,"endTime":3135.873,"body":"being more transparent about why"},{"speaker":"Sarah Tomlinson","startTime":3135.873,"endTime":3137.05,"body":"those decisions are made."},{"speaker":"Sarah Tomlinson","startTime":3137.05,"endTime":3138.764,"body":"Because APHA don't just make it"},{"speaker":"Sarah Tomlinson","startTime":3138.764,"endTime":3140.708,"body":"up. You know, there is very good"},{"speaker":"Sarah Tomlinson","startTime":3140.708,"endTime":3142.09,"body":"evidence and science behind the"},{"speaker":"Sarah Tomlinson","startTime":3142.09,"endTime":3144.09,"body":"decisions they make. Share it."},{"speaker":"Sarah Tomlinson","startTime":3144.09,"endTime":3145.27,"body":"And then people can come to"},{"speaker":"Sarah Tomlinson","startTime":3145.27,"endTime":3146.449,"body":"terms with it a lot better."},{"speaker":"Andrew Jones","startTime":3146.61,"endTime":3148.103,"body":"But I think we"},{"speaker":"Andrew Jones","startTime":3148.103,"endTime":3149.97,"body":"discussed that last time that"},{"speaker":"Andrew Jones","startTime":3149.97,"endTime":3151.57,"body":"some people on farm, the"},{"speaker":"Andrew Jones","startTime":3151.57,"endTime":3152.769,"body":"conversations I've had feel that"},{"speaker":"Andrew Jones","startTime":3152.769,"endTime":3154.665,"body":"it does feel like they make it"},{"speaker":"Andrew Jones","startTime":3154.665,"endTime":3156.405,"body":"up because everybody seems to"},{"speaker":"Andrew Jones","startTime":3156.405,"endTime":3157.786,"body":"get something different from"},{"speaker":"Andrew Jones","startTime":3157.786,"endTime":3160.189,"body":"what seems to be the same. Um,"},{"speaker":"Andrew Jones","startTime":3160.189,"endTime":3162.09,"body":"cause but actually what you're"},{"speaker":"Andrew Jones","startTime":3162.09,"endTime":3164.161,"body":"saying is actually there is some"},{"speaker":"Andrew Jones","startTime":3164.161,"endTime":3165.539,"body":"science, there is some reasoning"},{"speaker":"Andrew Jones","startTime":3165.539,"endTime":3166.719,"body":"behind this. They just haven't"},{"speaker":"Andrew Jones","startTime":3166.719,"endTime":3168.73,"body":"been transparent as to what that"},{"speaker":"Andrew Jones","startTime":3168.73,"endTime":3170.349,"body":"reasoning and what that science"},{"speaker":"Andrew Jones","startTime":3170.349,"endTime":3172.177,"body":"is. So hopefully that will now"},{"speaker":"Andrew Jones","startTime":3172.177,"endTime":3174.314,"body":"make it a little bit more, um,"},{"speaker":"Andrew Jones","startTime":3174.314,"endTime":3175.673,"body":"yeah. Transparent to people as"},{"speaker":"Andrew Jones","startTime":3175.673,"endTime":3177.253,"body":"to why they maybe they are"},{"speaker":"Andrew Jones","startTime":3177.253,"endTime":3178.868,"body":"getting the one to two, the"},{"speaker":"Andrew Jones","startTime":3178.868,"endTime":3180.228,"body":"gammas, whatever it happens to"},{"speaker":"Andrew Jones","startTime":3180.228,"endTime":3180.5,"body":"be."},{"speaker":"Sarah Tomlinson","startTime":3180.34,"endTime":3180.827,"body":"And including"},{"speaker":"Sarah Tomlinson","startTime":3180.827,"endTime":3182.045,"body":"the private vet in that"},{"speaker":"Sarah Tomlinson","startTime":3182.045,"endTime":3183.019,"body":"conversation, because we do"},{"speaker":"Sarah Tomlinson","startTime":3183.019,"endTime":3184.565,"body":"everything else with our farmers"},{"speaker":"Sarah Tomlinson","startTime":3184.565,"endTime":3186.42,"body":"on business and on managing risk"},{"speaker":"Sarah Tomlinson","startTime":3186.42,"endTime":3188.651,"body":"and for other stuff. And we,"},{"speaker":"Sarah Tomlinson","startTime":3188.651,"endTime":3190.863,"body":"we're very much kept out of that"},{"speaker":"Sarah Tomlinson","startTime":3190.863,"endTime":3192.161,"body":"conversation. When TB is"},{"speaker":"Sarah Tomlinson","startTime":3192.161,"endTime":3193.471,"body":"involved, the letters come"},{"speaker":"Sarah Tomlinson","startTime":3193.471,"endTime":3195.044,"body":"directly to the farmer. The"},{"speaker":"Sarah Tomlinson","startTime":3195.044,"endTime":3196.1,"body":"conversation between APHA and"},{"speaker":"Sarah Tomlinson","startTime":3196.1,"endTime":3197.727,"body":"the farmer is had without the"},{"speaker":"Sarah Tomlinson","startTime":3197.727,"endTime":3199.384,"body":"private vet. So again, the"},{"speaker":"Sarah Tomlinson","startTime":3199.384,"endTime":3200.776,"body":"recommendation, the strategy is"},{"speaker":"Sarah Tomlinson","startTime":3200.776,"endTime":3203.14,"body":"that the private vet and the"},{"speaker":"Sarah Tomlinson","startTime":3203.14,"endTime":3205.339,"body":"farmer and APHA make decisions"},{"speaker":"Sarah Tomlinson","startTime":3205.339,"endTime":3208.611,"body":"at a local level. And again, in"},{"speaker":"Sarah Tomlinson","startTime":3208.611,"endTime":3211.131,"body":"within mind what the business"},{"speaker":"Sarah Tomlinson","startTime":3211.131,"endTime":3212.139,"body":"objectives are."},{"speaker":"Andrew Jones","startTime":3212.699,"endTime":3214.427,"body":"Tighter rules on"},{"speaker":"Andrew Jones","startTime":3214.427,"endTime":3215.579,"body":"inconclusive reactors."},{"speaker":"Sarah Tomlinson","startTime":3215.38,"endTime":3216.814,"body":"So I think we"},{"speaker":"Sarah Tomlinson","startTime":3216.814,"endTime":3218.605,"body":"said earlier about we've already"},{"speaker":"Sarah Tomlinson","startTime":3218.605,"endTime":3220.871,"body":"have a resolved IR has to remain"},{"speaker":"Sarah Tomlinson","startTime":3220.871,"endTime":3223.209,"body":"on farm for life. It can't be"},{"speaker":"Sarah Tomlinson","startTime":3223.209,"endTime":3225.419,"body":"traded. And what we felt was"},{"speaker":"Sarah Tomlinson","startTime":3225.419,"endTime":3227.58,"body":"that that actually we know those"},{"speaker":"Sarah Tomlinson","startTime":3227.58,"endTime":3229.389,"body":"animals are really risky. We"},{"speaker":"Sarah Tomlinson","startTime":3229.389,"endTime":3230.86,"body":"know those animals. I think"},{"speaker":"Sarah Tomlinson","startTime":3230.86,"endTime":3232.213,"body":"something like eleven percent of"},{"speaker":"Sarah Tomlinson","startTime":3232.213,"endTime":3233.785,"body":"resolve or I are slaughtered"},{"speaker":"Sarah Tomlinson","startTime":3233.785,"endTime":3235.619,"body":"before their second test have"},{"speaker":"Sarah Tomlinson","startTime":3235.619,"endTime":3238.023,"body":"actually visible lesions. We"},{"speaker":"Sarah Tomlinson","startTime":3238.023,"endTime":3240.241,"body":"know an inconclusive reactor is"},{"speaker":"Sarah Tomlinson","startTime":3240.241,"endTime":3242.83,"body":"more likely to test positive at"},{"speaker":"Sarah Tomlinson","startTime":3242.83,"endTime":3244.369,"body":"a subsequent test. Maybe not the"},{"speaker":"Sarah Tomlinson","startTime":3244.369,"endTime":3245.62,"body":"next one or the next one, but"},{"speaker":"Sarah Tomlinson","startTime":3245.62,"endTime":3248.164,"body":"further down the line. So we"},{"speaker":"Sarah Tomlinson","startTime":3248.164,"endTime":3250.323,"body":"wanted farmers to actually act"},{"speaker":"Sarah Tomlinson","startTime":3250.323,"endTime":3252.51,"body":"on that information. So they"},{"speaker":"Sarah Tomlinson","startTime":3252.51,"endTime":3254.989,"body":"have a limited time frame. So"},{"speaker":"Sarah Tomlinson","startTime":3254.989,"endTime":3256.239,"body":"they're not remaining on farm"},{"speaker":"Sarah Tomlinson","startTime":3256.239,"endTime":3257.806,"body":"for life. Basically, you have to"},{"speaker":"Sarah Tomlinson","startTime":3257.806,"endTime":3259.789,"body":"sit down with your vet and say,"},{"speaker":"Sarah Tomlinson","startTime":3259.789,"endTime":3261.219,"body":"okay, I'll let it finish this"},{"speaker":"Sarah Tomlinson","startTime":3261.219,"endTime":3263.593,"body":"lactation. I'll let it rear its"},{"speaker":"Sarah Tomlinson","startTime":3263.593,"endTime":3265.682,"body":"calf. If it's a heifer, I might"},{"speaker":"Sarah Tomlinson","startTime":3265.682,"endTime":3267.762,"body":"serve it to beef, let it calve"},{"speaker":"Sarah Tomlinson","startTime":3267.762,"endTime":3270.245,"body":"down. Um, but then it will exit"},{"speaker":"Sarah Tomlinson","startTime":3270.245,"endTime":3272.795,"body":"my herd within and I think the,"},{"speaker":"Sarah Tomlinson","startTime":3272.795,"endTime":3274.745,"body":"the recommendation says twelve"},{"speaker":"Sarah Tomlinson","startTime":3274.745,"endTime":3276.86,"body":"months, but the conversations,"},{"speaker":"Sarah Tomlinson","startTime":3276.86,"endTime":3278.14,"body":"because this came out of the"},{"speaker":"Sarah Tomlinson","startTime":3278.14,"endTime":3279.42,"body":"working group I was involved in"},{"speaker":"Sarah Tomlinson","startTime":3279.42,"endTime":3281.24,"body":"was, let's see if twelve months"},{"speaker":"Sarah Tomlinson","startTime":3281.24,"endTime":3283.059,"body":"is long enough, not long enough."},{"speaker":"Sarah Tomlinson","startTime":3283.059,"endTime":3284.948,"body":"Could they go sooner? So again,"},{"speaker":"Sarah Tomlinson","startTime":3284.948,"endTime":3286.23,"body":"it's a recommendation. Nothing's"},{"speaker":"Sarah Tomlinson","startTime":3286.23,"endTime":3288.433,"body":"set in stone. We need to learn"},{"speaker":"Sarah Tomlinson","startTime":3288.433,"endTime":3289.893,"body":"by doing. If some farmers say,"},{"speaker":"Sarah Tomlinson","startTime":3289.893,"endTime":3291.262,"body":"actually it needs to be eighteen"},{"speaker":"Sarah Tomlinson","startTime":3291.262,"endTime":3292.88,"body":"months for my business,"},{"speaker":"Sarah Tomlinson","startTime":3292.88,"endTime":3294.518,"body":"realistically. You know, let's"},{"speaker":"Sarah Tomlinson","startTime":3294.518,"endTime":3296.635,"body":"let's look at what that could"},{"speaker":"Sarah Tomlinson","startTime":3296.635,"endTime":3297.34,"body":"look like."},{"speaker":"Andrew Jones","startTime":3297.3,"endTime":3298.899,"body":"So it's open to"},{"speaker":"Andrew Jones","startTime":3298.899,"endTime":3300.619,"body":"review that particular. Yeah."},{"speaker":"Sarah Tomlinson","startTime":3300.86,"endTime":3301.5,"body":"Yeah."},{"speaker":"Andrew Jones","startTime":3301.94,"endTime":3302.999,"body":"Farmers to get"},{"speaker":"Andrew Jones","startTime":3302.999,"endTime":3304.619,"body":"access to auxiliary. No"},{"speaker":"Andrew Jones","startTime":3304.619,"endTime":3306.619,"body":"ancillary sorry. Testing."},{"speaker":"Sarah Tomlinson","startTime":3306.78,"endTime":3307.58,"body":"Yeah. So this"},{"speaker":"Sarah Tomlinson","startTime":3307.58,"endTime":3309.179,"body":"is what we talked about earlier."},{"speaker":"Sarah Tomlinson","startTime":3309.179,"endTime":3311.26,"body":"This access to potentially more"},{"speaker":"Sarah Tomlinson","startTime":3311.26,"endTime":3314.079,"body":"sensitive tests um the"},{"speaker":"Sarah Tomlinson","startTime":3314.079,"endTime":3316.179,"body":"non-statutory tests. So again"},{"speaker":"Sarah Tomlinson","startTime":3316.179,"endTime":3317.579,"body":"this is government keeping out"},{"speaker":"Sarah Tomlinson","startTime":3317.579,"endTime":3319.608,"body":"of it. This is a decision"},{"speaker":"Sarah Tomlinson","startTime":3319.608,"endTime":3321.444,"body":"between the farmer and the"},{"speaker":"Sarah Tomlinson","startTime":3321.444,"endTime":3323.646,"body":"private vet. They have to have a"},{"speaker":"Sarah Tomlinson","startTime":3323.646,"endTime":3324.82,"body":"plan. Like we've just talked"},{"speaker":"Sarah Tomlinson","startTime":3324.82,"endTime":3326.476,"body":"about an exit plan for any"},{"speaker":"Sarah Tomlinson","startTime":3326.476,"endTime":3328.394,"body":"positive animals. But what won't"},{"speaker":"Sarah Tomlinson","startTime":3328.394,"endTime":3329.943,"body":"happen is that animal won't have"},{"speaker":"Sarah Tomlinson","startTime":3329.943,"endTime":3331.749,"body":"to leave within ten working"},{"speaker":"Sarah Tomlinson","startTime":3331.749,"endTime":3333.887,"body":"days. It won't shut your farm"},{"speaker":"Sarah Tomlinson","startTime":3333.887,"endTime":3336.277,"body":"down, and it won't mean you have"},{"speaker":"Sarah Tomlinson","startTime":3336.277,"endTime":3338.853,"body":"to do sixty day testing. So that"},{"speaker":"Sarah Tomlinson","startTime":3338.853,"endTime":3340.787,"body":"that is the the big wow moment"},{"speaker":"Sarah Tomlinson","startTime":3340.787,"endTime":3341.34,"body":"for me."},{"speaker":"Andrew Jones","startTime":3341.82,"endTime":3343.18,"body":"New strategy board"},{"speaker":"Andrew Jones","startTime":3343.18,"endTime":3344.539,"body":"to drive delivery."},{"speaker":"Sarah Tomlinson","startTime":3344.78,"endTime":3346.563,"body":"So we need like"},{"speaker":"Sarah Tomlinson","startTime":3346.563,"endTime":3348.524,"body":"I keep saying, we don't want"},{"speaker":"Sarah Tomlinson","startTime":3348.524,"endTime":3349.845,"body":"government and Defra to tell us"},{"speaker":"Sarah Tomlinson","startTime":3349.845,"endTime":3351.337,"body":"what to do And this delivery"},{"speaker":"Sarah Tomlinson","startTime":3351.337,"endTime":3354.02,"body":"board is going to be a mixture"},{"speaker":"Sarah Tomlinson","startTime":3354.02,"endTime":3357.415,"body":"of industry vets and a for a"},{"speaker":"Sarah Tomlinson","startTime":3357.415,"endTime":3360.122,"body":"delivery and and Defra because"},{"speaker":"Sarah Tomlinson","startTime":3360.122,"endTime":3362.152,"body":"ultimately anything to do with a"},{"speaker":"Sarah Tomlinson","startTime":3362.152,"endTime":3363.677,"body":"notifiable disease has to have"},{"speaker":"Sarah Tomlinson","startTime":3363.677,"endTime":3365.83,"body":"ministerial sign off. We can't"},{"speaker":"Sarah Tomlinson","startTime":3365.83,"endTime":3367.423,"body":"get away from that. But"},{"speaker":"Sarah Tomlinson","startTime":3367.423,"endTime":3368.99,"body":"actually, if this delivery board"},{"speaker":"Sarah Tomlinson","startTime":3368.99,"endTime":3371.463,"body":"says this is what we want to do,"},{"speaker":"Sarah Tomlinson","startTime":3371.463,"endTime":3373.542,"body":"and it might be we want to"},{"speaker":"Sarah Tomlinson","startTime":3373.542,"endTime":3374.94,"body":"reduce testing in those herds,"},{"speaker":"Sarah Tomlinson","startTime":3374.94,"endTime":3376.409,"body":"but we want to increase it in"},{"speaker":"Sarah Tomlinson","startTime":3376.409,"endTime":3378.429,"body":"those herds. It's been decided"},{"speaker":"Sarah Tomlinson","startTime":3378.429,"endTime":3381.097,"body":"by vets, farmers, not just"},{"speaker":"Sarah Tomlinson","startTime":3381.097,"endTime":3383.65,"body":"government. So it should be that"},{"speaker":"Sarah Tomlinson","startTime":3383.65,"endTime":3386.016,"body":"people trust it more maybe. Um,"},{"speaker":"Sarah Tomlinson","startTime":3386.016,"endTime":3388.484,"body":"and like I said, what we what we"},{"speaker":"Sarah Tomlinson","startTime":3388.484,"endTime":3389.762,"body":"need to do straight away is work"},{"speaker":"Sarah Tomlinson","startTime":3389.762,"endTime":3391.578,"body":"out what are the priorities. So"},{"speaker":"Sarah Tomlinson","startTime":3391.578,"endTime":3392.95,"body":"to me, one of the priorities is"},{"speaker":"Sarah Tomlinson","startTime":3392.95,"endTime":3393.909,"body":"telling everybody that what"},{"speaker":"Sarah Tomlinson","startTime":3393.909,"endTime":3395.429,"body":"their herd risk score is, that"},{"speaker":"Sarah Tomlinson","startTime":3395.429,"endTime":3397.309,"body":"should be dead simple and people"},{"speaker":"Sarah Tomlinson","startTime":3397.309,"endTime":3398.19,"body":"can start acting on it"},{"speaker":"Sarah Tomlinson","startTime":3398.19,"endTime":3399.798,"body":"immediately. Um, another"},{"speaker":"Sarah Tomlinson","startTime":3399.798,"endTime":3401.502,"body":"priority is let's just get the"},{"speaker":"Sarah Tomlinson","startTime":3401.502,"endTime":3402.85,"body":"paperwork right. So farmers and"},{"speaker":"Sarah Tomlinson","startTime":3402.85,"endTime":3404.23,"body":"vets can start applying for"},{"speaker":"Sarah Tomlinson","startTime":3404.23,"endTime":3406.533,"body":"these ancillary tests. Um,"},{"speaker":"Sarah Tomlinson","startTime":3406.533,"endTime":3409.253,"body":"whereas other stuff like, I"},{"speaker":"Sarah Tomlinson","startTime":3409.253,"endTime":3411.429,"body":"don't know, um, significant"},{"speaker":"Sarah Tomlinson","startTime":3411.429,"endTime":3413.72,"body":"changes in pre or post movement"},{"speaker":"Sarah Tomlinson","startTime":3413.72,"endTime":3415.63,"body":"testing rules might need a"},{"speaker":"Sarah Tomlinson","startTime":3415.63,"endTime":3418.061,"body":"little bit longer running. Um,"},{"speaker":"Sarah Tomlinson","startTime":3418.061,"endTime":3419.617,"body":"equally we talked earlier about"},{"speaker":"Sarah Tomlinson","startTime":3419.617,"endTime":3420.944,"body":"potentially using more gamma"},{"speaker":"Sarah Tomlinson","startTime":3420.944,"endTime":3422.521,"body":"testing, statutory gamma testing"},{"speaker":"Sarah Tomlinson","startTime":3422.521,"endTime":3424.567,"body":"in herds. I would like to see"},{"speaker":"Sarah Tomlinson","startTime":3424.567,"endTime":3426.366,"body":"that coming in after we've"},{"speaker":"Sarah Tomlinson","startTime":3426.366,"endTime":3428.298,"body":"allowed farmers to access the"},{"speaker":"Sarah Tomlinson","startTime":3428.298,"endTime":3430.091,"body":"more sensitive testing. Because"},{"speaker":"Sarah Tomlinson","startTime":3430.091,"endTime":3431.42,"body":"if they engage in that, they"},{"speaker":"Sarah Tomlinson","startTime":3431.42,"endTime":3433.008,"body":"might not ever get to the point"},{"speaker":"Sarah Tomlinson","startTime":3433.008,"endTime":3434.554,"body":"where they need to have the"},{"speaker":"Sarah Tomlinson","startTime":3434.554,"endTime":3436.098,"body":"mandatory gamma. So again, this"},{"speaker":"Sarah Tomlinson","startTime":3436.098,"endTime":3438.149,"body":"is very much my thoughts, having"},{"speaker":"Sarah Tomlinson","startTime":3438.149,"endTime":3440.03,"body":"been involved in the testing"},{"speaker":"Sarah Tomlinson","startTime":3440.03,"endTime":3442.163,"body":"working group as to some of the"},{"speaker":"Sarah Tomlinson","startTime":3442.163,"endTime":3444.369,"body":"conversations we had. Um, so it,"},{"speaker":"Sarah Tomlinson","startTime":3444.369,"endTime":3446.25,"body":"this strategy sets out what we"},{"speaker":"Sarah Tomlinson","startTime":3446.25,"endTime":3447.83,"body":"want to do. It doesn't tell us"},{"speaker":"Sarah Tomlinson","startTime":3447.83,"endTime":3449.08,"body":"how we're going to do it. And"},{"speaker":"Sarah Tomlinson","startTime":3449.08,"endTime":3450.538,"body":"that's what the delivery board"},{"speaker":"Sarah Tomlinson","startTime":3450.538,"endTime":3450.829,"body":"will."},{"speaker":"Andrew Jones","startTime":3451.03,"endTime":3451.708,"body":"Well, that was"},{"speaker":"Andrew Jones","startTime":3451.708,"endTime":3453.291,"body":"going to be my next question was"},{"speaker":"Andrew Jones","startTime":3453.291,"endTime":3456.222,"body":"so like you say, take the, um,"},{"speaker":"Andrew Jones","startTime":3456.222,"endTime":3458.296,"body":"risk scores. When will farmers"},{"speaker":"Andrew Jones","startTime":3458.296,"endTime":3460.638,"body":"be able to find those out? When"},{"speaker":"Andrew Jones","startTime":3460.638,"endTime":3462.657,"body":"when what's the timeline. We've"},{"speaker":"Andrew Jones","startTime":3462.657,"endTime":3464.254,"body":"got a timeline for what we want"},{"speaker":"Andrew Jones","startTime":3464.254,"endTime":3465.279,"body":"to achieve. But practically"},{"speaker":"Andrew Jones","startTime":3465.279,"endTime":3466.985,"body":"what's the timeline for some of"},{"speaker":"Andrew Jones","startTime":3466.985,"endTime":3469.03,"body":"these things actually happening."},{"speaker":"Sarah Tomlinson","startTime":3468.829,"endTime":3469.563,"body":"And that's what"},{"speaker":"Sarah Tomlinson","startTime":3469.563,"endTime":3471.03,"body":"the delivery board needs to do."},{"speaker":"Sarah Tomlinson","startTime":3471.03,"endTime":3473.31,"body":"So, um, this roadmap"},{"speaker":"Sarah Tomlinson","startTime":3473.31,"endTime":3475.59,"body":"purposefully didn't do that"},{"speaker":"Sarah Tomlinson","startTime":3475.59,"endTime":3477.444,"body":"because we don't know is the"},{"speaker":"Sarah Tomlinson","startTime":3477.444,"endTime":3479.469,"body":"long and short of it. It needs"},{"speaker":"Sarah Tomlinson","startTime":3479.469,"endTime":3480.949,"body":"sort of more discussion and more"},{"speaker":"Sarah Tomlinson","startTime":3480.949,"endTime":3482.597,"body":"work and what and again, what"},{"speaker":"Sarah Tomlinson","startTime":3482.597,"endTime":3484.252,"body":"our systems will allow us to do"},{"speaker":"Sarah Tomlinson","startTime":3484.252,"endTime":3486.324,"body":"what our, it does. Um, because"},{"speaker":"Sarah Tomlinson","startTime":3486.324,"endTime":3488.767,"body":"um the Defra and APHA systems"},{"speaker":"Sarah Tomlinson","startTime":3488.767,"endTime":3491.151,"body":"are being reviewed and the, it's"},{"speaker":"Sarah Tomlinson","startTime":3491.151,"endTime":3493.088,"body":"being updated to allow much"},{"speaker":"Sarah Tomlinson","startTime":3493.088,"endTime":3495.25,"body":"better data sharing to happen"},{"speaker":"Sarah Tomlinson","startTime":3495.25,"endTime":3497.206,"body":"easier. Um, and again, one of"},{"speaker":"Sarah Tomlinson","startTime":3497.206,"endTime":3499.07,"body":"the things that um, farmers and"},{"speaker":"Sarah Tomlinson","startTime":3499.07,"endTime":3500.657,"body":"vets have been asking for is"},{"speaker":"Sarah Tomlinson","startTime":3500.657,"endTime":3502.01,"body":"access to their test chart data"},{"speaker":"Sarah Tomlinson","startTime":3502.01,"endTime":3503.683,"body":"to be able to look at those"},{"speaker":"Sarah Tomlinson","startTime":3503.683,"endTime":3504.65,"body":"bovine lumps, which we spoke"},{"speaker":"Sarah Tomlinson","startTime":3504.65,"endTime":3506.656,"body":"about in the other podcast. Um,"},{"speaker":"Sarah Tomlinson","startTime":3506.656,"endTime":3507.776,"body":"but actually trying to get that"},{"speaker":"Sarah Tomlinson","startTime":3507.776,"endTime":3509.063,"body":"data is quite a manual process"},{"speaker":"Sarah Tomlinson","startTime":3509.063,"endTime":3511.516,"body":"out of the APHA system. So one"},{"speaker":"Sarah Tomlinson","startTime":3511.516,"endTime":3513.576,"body":"of the promises within this is"},{"speaker":"Sarah Tomlinson","startTime":3513.576,"endTime":3515.483,"body":"better access to data. So that"},{"speaker":"Sarah Tomlinson","startTime":3515.483,"endTime":3517.03,"body":"is that'll need an investment"},{"speaker":"Sarah Tomlinson","startTime":3517.03,"endTime":3519.836,"body":"and probably an IT solution. So"},{"speaker":"Sarah Tomlinson","startTime":3519.836,"endTime":3521.463,"body":"that isn't going to happen"},{"speaker":"Sarah Tomlinson","startTime":3521.463,"endTime":3523.176,"body":"overnight. There is again a"},{"speaker":"Sarah Tomlinson","startTime":3523.176,"endTime":3525.256,"body":"clear steer that this has to"},{"speaker":"Sarah Tomlinson","startTime":3525.256,"endTime":3527.119,"body":"happen as quickly as possible."},{"speaker":"Sarah Tomlinson","startTime":3527.119,"endTime":3528.358,"body":"Just get the data out there and"},{"speaker":"Sarah Tomlinson","startTime":3528.358,"endTime":3529.42,"body":"farmers and vets can start to"},{"speaker":"Sarah Tomlinson","startTime":3529.42,"endTime":3530.32,"body":"act on it."},{"speaker":"Andrew Jones","startTime":3531.28,"endTime":3532.08,"body":"And then the last"},{"speaker":"Andrew Jones","startTime":3532.08,"endTime":3533.08,"body":"one, which you've already sort"},{"speaker":"Andrew Jones","startTime":3533.08,"endTime":3534.614,"body":"of covered with, the first one"},{"speaker":"Andrew Jones","startTime":3534.614,"endTime":3536.032,"body":"was the Godfray Review Warning,"},{"speaker":"Andrew Jones","startTime":3536.032,"endTime":3538.26,"body":"which is in terms of, you know,"},{"speaker":"Andrew Jones","startTime":3538.26,"endTime":3539.92,"body":"be proactive, I guess was"},{"speaker":"Andrew Jones","startTime":3539.92,"endTime":3541.864,"body":"ultimately what it was. But I"},{"speaker":"Andrew Jones","startTime":3541.864,"endTime":3543.738,"body":"mean, those were the points that"},{"speaker":"Andrew Jones","startTime":3543.738,"endTime":3546.012,"body":"the AI picked out of the fifty"},{"speaker":"Andrew Jones","startTime":3546.012,"endTime":3547.621,"body":"five page document. Now, are"},{"speaker":"Andrew Jones","startTime":3547.621,"endTime":3549.245,"body":"there others in there that it"},{"speaker":"Andrew Jones","startTime":3549.245,"endTime":3550.989,"body":"didn't pick out that you think"},{"speaker":"Andrew Jones","startTime":3550.989,"endTime":3552.159,"body":"should be discussed?"},{"speaker":"Sarah Tomlinson","startTime":3552.44,"endTime":3554.279,"body":"So I think the"},{"speaker":"Sarah Tomlinson","startTime":3554.279,"endTime":3556.767,"body":"main theme throughout of this is"},{"speaker":"Sarah Tomlinson","startTime":3556.767,"endTime":3559.387,"body":"local ownership. And, you know,"},{"speaker":"Sarah Tomlinson","startTime":3559.387,"endTime":3560.768,"body":"allowing vets and farmers who"},{"speaker":"Sarah Tomlinson","startTime":3560.768,"endTime":3562.148,"body":"know what's happening in their"},{"speaker":"Sarah Tomlinson","startTime":3562.148,"endTime":3563.527,"body":"little area, whether that's the"},{"speaker":"Sarah Tomlinson","startTime":3563.527,"endTime":3565.752,"body":"county or whether it's a region,"},{"speaker":"Sarah Tomlinson","startTime":3565.752,"endTime":3568.261,"body":"whether it's a, a valley of"},{"speaker":"Sarah Tomlinson","startTime":3568.261,"endTime":3569.731,"body":"dairy farmers, you know, all"},{"speaker":"Sarah Tomlinson","startTime":3569.731,"endTime":3571.573,"body":"kind of in the same valley to"},{"speaker":"Sarah Tomlinson","startTime":3571.573,"endTime":3573.781,"body":"look at what their risks are and"},{"speaker":"Sarah Tomlinson","startTime":3573.781,"endTime":3575.464,"body":"manage them collectively as a"},{"speaker":"Sarah Tomlinson","startTime":3575.464,"endTime":3577.38,"body":"group. And I have been"},{"speaker":"Sarah Tomlinson","startTime":3577.38,"endTime":3579.52,"body":"describing it to people. When a"},{"speaker":"Sarah Tomlinson","startTime":3579.52,"endTime":3580.805,"body":"group of farmers said, right,"},{"speaker":"Sarah Tomlinson","startTime":3580.805,"endTime":3582.58,"body":"we'd like to get a call company"},{"speaker":"Sarah Tomlinson","startTime":3582.58,"endTime":3585.21,"body":"together. The NFU came in The"},{"speaker":"Sarah Tomlinson","startTime":3585.21,"endTime":3587.06,"body":"previous coal company that had"},{"speaker":"Sarah Tomlinson","startTime":3587.06,"endTime":3589.24,"body":"been set up, came in to support"},{"speaker":"Sarah Tomlinson","startTime":3589.24,"endTime":3590.986,"body":"that group to get going. They"},{"speaker":"Sarah Tomlinson","startTime":3590.986,"endTime":3592.519,"body":"gave them the budget template."},{"speaker":"Sarah Tomlinson","startTime":3592.519,"endTime":3593.815,"body":"Where to buy your peanuts, where"},{"speaker":"Sarah Tomlinson","startTime":3593.815,"endTime":3595.172,"body":"to buy your traps. They gave"},{"speaker":"Sarah Tomlinson","startTime":3595.172,"endTime":3596.759,"body":"them the paperwork so it was"},{"speaker":"Sarah Tomlinson","startTime":3596.759,"endTime":3598.209,"body":"consistent across all these"},{"speaker":"Sarah Tomlinson","startTime":3598.209,"endTime":3600.416,"body":"groups. So I think, um, there's"},{"speaker":"Sarah Tomlinson","startTime":3600.416,"endTime":3602.189,"body":"lots of great things already"},{"speaker":"Sarah Tomlinson","startTime":3602.189,"endTime":3603.52,"body":"happening, like the"},{"speaker":"Sarah Tomlinson","startTime":3603.52,"endTime":3605.079,"body":"Pembrokeshire pilot project."},{"speaker":"Sarah Tomlinson","startTime":3605.079,"endTime":3606.239,"body":"We've got the Oxford cluster"},{"speaker":"Sarah Tomlinson","startTime":3606.239,"endTime":3608.199,"body":"pilot, Dick Sibley, the work he"},{"speaker":"Sarah Tomlinson","startTime":3608.199,"endTime":3609.48,"body":"was doing with Robert Reed that"},{"speaker":"Sarah Tomlinson","startTime":3609.48,"endTime":3610.8,"body":"was in the Brian May"},{"speaker":"Sarah Tomlinson","startTime":3610.8,"endTime":3612.48,"body":"documentary. There's a lot of"},{"speaker":"Sarah Tomlinson","startTime":3612.48,"endTime":3613.639,"body":"really great stuff happening."},{"speaker":"Sarah Tomlinson","startTime":3613.639,"endTime":3616.28,"body":"How do we make sure we know it's"},{"speaker":"Sarah Tomlinson","startTime":3616.28,"endTime":3618.32,"body":"working and other people have"},{"speaker":"Sarah Tomlinson","startTime":3618.32,"endTime":3619.679,"body":"access to that Intel and that"},{"speaker":"Sarah Tomlinson","startTime":3619.679,"endTime":3622.809,"body":"information? So yeah, and I"},{"speaker":"Sarah Tomlinson","startTime":3622.809,"endTime":3625.071,"body":"think, again, I'm not sure"},{"speaker":"Sarah Tomlinson","startTime":3625.071,"endTime":3627.227,"body":"government need to get involved"},{"speaker":"Sarah Tomlinson","startTime":3627.227,"endTime":3629.149,"body":"in that. This is non-statutory"},{"speaker":"Sarah Tomlinson","startTime":3629.149,"endTime":3630.793,"body":"stuff. So this is about"},{"speaker":"Sarah Tomlinson","startTime":3630.793,"endTime":3631.959,"body":"understanding trade risk. It's"},{"speaker":"Sarah Tomlinson","startTime":3631.959,"endTime":3633.4,"body":"about going out and doing more"},{"speaker":"Sarah Tomlinson","startTime":3633.4,"endTime":3634.578,"body":"badger vaccination. It's about"},{"speaker":"Sarah Tomlinson","startTime":3634.578,"endTime":3635.974,"body":"farmers understanding that they"},{"speaker":"Sarah Tomlinson","startTime":3635.974,"endTime":3638.34,"body":"might need to use more of these"},{"speaker":"Sarah Tomlinson","startTime":3638.34,"endTime":3640.684,"body":"ancillary tests. So let APHA and"},{"speaker":"Sarah Tomlinson","startTime":3640.684,"endTime":3642.409,"body":"government do the statutory"},{"speaker":"Sarah Tomlinson","startTime":3642.409,"endTime":3643.716,"body":"stuff. But almost everything"},{"speaker":"Sarah Tomlinson","startTime":3643.716,"endTime":3645.468,"body":"else like the industry lead on"},{"speaker":"Sarah Tomlinson","startTime":3645.468,"endTime":3647.48,"body":"it. And, and I think, again, I"},{"speaker":"Sarah Tomlinson","startTime":3647.48,"endTime":3648.912,"body":"speak to thousands of farmers"},{"speaker":"Sarah Tomlinson","startTime":3648.912,"endTime":3650.735,"body":"every year doing my farmer"},{"speaker":"Sarah Tomlinson","startTime":3650.735,"endTime":3652.112,"body":"meetings. I know that farmers"},{"speaker":"Sarah Tomlinson","startTime":3652.112,"endTime":3654.135,"body":"aren't against paying for these"},{"speaker":"Sarah Tomlinson","startTime":3654.135,"endTime":3656.05,"body":"tests, you know, paying for it"},{"speaker":"Sarah Tomlinson","startTime":3656.05,"endTime":3658.239,"body":"as long as the control measures,"},{"speaker":"Sarah Tomlinson","startTime":3658.239,"endTime":3659.8,"body":"the statutory control measures"},{"speaker":"Sarah Tomlinson","startTime":3659.8,"endTime":3661.84,"body":"aren't then bought in, and"},{"speaker":"Sarah Tomlinson","startTime":3661.84,"endTime":3662.84,"body":"that's what impacts their"},{"speaker":"Sarah Tomlinson","startTime":3662.84,"endTime":3663.84,"body":"businesses."},{"speaker":"Andrew Jones","startTime":3664.36,"endTime":3665.84,"body":"So again, things"},{"speaker":"Andrew Jones","startTime":3665.84,"endTime":3668.072,"body":"like the, um, ancillary testing"},{"speaker":"Andrew Jones","startTime":3668.072,"endTime":3670.423,"body":"at the moment until the delivery"},{"speaker":"Andrew Jones","startTime":3670.423,"endTime":3672.36,"body":"of the strategy board come up"},{"speaker":"Andrew Jones","startTime":3672.36,"endTime":3674.765,"body":"with a timeline. People can't go"},{"speaker":"Andrew Jones","startTime":3674.765,"endTime":3676.32,"body":"and do that today."},{"speaker":"Sarah Tomlinson","startTime":3676.559,"endTime":3677.199,"body":"Well, I don't"},{"speaker":"Sarah Tomlinson","startTime":3677.199,"endTime":3678.692,"body":"know because we want to learn by"},{"speaker":"Sarah Tomlinson","startTime":3678.692,"endTime":3679.647,"body":"doing so. We don't shouldn't"},{"speaker":"Sarah Tomlinson","startTime":3679.647,"endTime":3680.704,"body":"have to wait for the delivery"},{"speaker":"Sarah Tomlinson","startTime":3680.704,"endTime":3682.114,"body":"board. So I was at an amazing"},{"speaker":"Sarah Tomlinson","startTime":3682.114,"endTime":3683.279,"body":"meeting at Sedgemoor Market that"},{"speaker":"Sarah Tomlinson","startTime":3683.279,"endTime":3684.383,"body":"was organised by the National"},{"speaker":"Sarah Tomlinson","startTime":3684.383,"endTime":3685.86,"body":"Beef Association, a hundred"},{"speaker":"Sarah Tomlinson","startTime":3685.86,"endTime":3688.543,"body":"odd farmers in the room and a"},{"speaker":"Sarah Tomlinson","startTime":3688.543,"endTime":3690.462,"body":"farmer at the end stood up and"},{"speaker":"Sarah Tomlinson","startTime":3690.462,"endTime":3691.92,"body":"really quite emotionally spoke"},{"speaker":"Sarah Tomlinson","startTime":3691.92,"endTime":3693.834,"body":"about how he has engaged in"},{"speaker":"Sarah Tomlinson","startTime":3693.834,"endTime":3695.959,"body":"Enferplex testing and APHA had"},{"speaker":"Sarah Tomlinson","startTime":3695.959,"endTime":3697.542,"body":"agreed with his private vet that"},{"speaker":"Sarah Tomlinson","startTime":3697.542,"endTime":3699.716,"body":"he could do four rounds. Well,"},{"speaker":"Sarah Tomlinson","startTime":3699.716,"endTime":3700.818,"body":"it's obviously done something"},{"speaker":"Sarah Tomlinson","startTime":3700.818,"endTime":3702.812,"body":"because he's now about to go do"},{"speaker":"Sarah Tomlinson","startTime":3702.812,"endTime":3704.597,"body":"his second clear test and go"},{"speaker":"Sarah Tomlinson","startTime":3704.597,"endTime":3706.599,"body":"officially TB free. So he's been"},{"speaker":"Sarah Tomlinson","startTime":3706.599,"endTime":3708.819,"body":"told he can't do his fourth"},{"speaker":"Sarah Tomlinson","startTime":3708.819,"endTime":3710.786,"body":"round of testing. Well, we had,"},{"speaker":"Sarah Tomlinson","startTime":3710.786,"endTime":3713.112,"body":"um, one of the directors in the"},{"speaker":"Sarah Tomlinson","startTime":3713.112,"endTime":3715.205,"body":"room and I did put her on the"},{"speaker":"Sarah Tomlinson","startTime":3715.205,"endTime":3716.449,"body":"spot a bit and I said, well, is"},{"speaker":"Sarah Tomlinson","startTime":3716.449,"endTime":3717.987,"body":"this not how we can learn by"},{"speaker":"Sarah Tomlinson","startTime":3717.987,"endTime":3719.225,"body":"doing, let's have a conversation"},{"speaker":"Sarah Tomlinson","startTime":3719.225,"endTime":3720.73,"body":"with this guy and say, do you"},{"speaker":"Sarah Tomlinson","startTime":3720.73,"endTime":3721.97,"body":"know what it says in the"},{"speaker":"Sarah Tomlinson","startTime":3721.97,"endTime":3723.179,"body":"recommendations? We should allow"},{"speaker":"Sarah Tomlinson","startTime":3723.179,"endTime":3725.03,"body":"this these tests to happen in"},{"speaker":"Sarah Tomlinson","startTime":3725.03,"endTime":3727.013,"body":"officially TB free farms. So"},{"speaker":"Sarah Tomlinson","startTime":3727.013,"endTime":3728.478,"body":"let's let him do his fourth"},{"speaker":"Sarah Tomlinson","startTime":3728.478,"endTime":3730.145,"body":"round of em. Let's work out what"},{"speaker":"Sarah Tomlinson","startTime":3730.145,"endTime":3731.782,"body":"we need to do, what paperwork we"},{"speaker":"Sarah Tomlinson","startTime":3731.782,"endTime":3733.354,"body":"need, what conversations we need"},{"speaker":"Sarah Tomlinson","startTime":3733.354,"endTime":3735.626,"body":"to have. And to be fair, she was"},{"speaker":"Sarah Tomlinson","startTime":3735.626,"endTime":3736.93,"body":"absolutely up for it. And I"},{"speaker":"Sarah Tomlinson","startTime":3736.93,"endTime":3738.039,"body":"think they did go and have a"},{"speaker":"Sarah Tomlinson","startTime":3738.039,"endTime":3739.65,"body":"conversation after that meeting."},{"speaker":"Sarah Tomlinson","startTime":3739.65,"endTime":3741.61,"body":"So I wouldn't let the fact that"},{"speaker":"Sarah Tomlinson","startTime":3741.61,"endTime":3743.01,"body":"we haven't seen anything in"},{"speaker":"Sarah Tomlinson","startTime":3743.01,"endTime":3744.884,"body":"black and white, if people want"},{"speaker":"Sarah Tomlinson","startTime":3744.884,"endTime":3747.07,"body":"to get on with it, I think"},{"speaker":"Sarah Tomlinson","startTime":3747.07,"endTime":3748.734,"body":"let's, let's challenge and let's"},{"speaker":"Sarah Tomlinson","startTime":3748.734,"endTime":3750.73,"body":"push and let's say, right, it's"},{"speaker":"Sarah Tomlinson","startTime":3750.73,"endTime":3752.474,"body":"in the strategy. Let's do it. I"},{"speaker":"Sarah Tomlinson","startTime":3752.474,"endTime":3753.369,"body":"think everybody can't obviously"},{"speaker":"Sarah Tomlinson","startTime":3753.369,"endTime":3755.641,"body":"go out and do that because we do"},{"speaker":"Sarah Tomlinson","startTime":3755.641,"endTime":3757.189,"body":"need consistency. We need to"},{"speaker":"Sarah Tomlinson","startTime":3757.189,"endTime":3758.75,"body":"know what's happening to be able"},{"speaker":"Sarah Tomlinson","startTime":3758.75,"endTime":3760.082,"body":"to measure and understand what"},{"speaker":"Sarah Tomlinson","startTime":3760.082,"endTime":3761.737,"body":"works so other people can learn"},{"speaker":"Sarah Tomlinson","startTime":3761.737,"endTime":3764.464,"body":"from it. So I wouldn't say no."},{"speaker":"Sarah Tomlinson","startTime":3764.464,"endTime":3767.075,"body":"Um, but equally obviously it is"},{"speaker":"Sarah Tomlinson","startTime":3767.075,"endTime":3768.753,"body":"um whether vets, farmers and"},{"speaker":"Sarah Tomlinson","startTime":3768.753,"endTime":3770.618,"body":"APHA agree that that's the best"},{"speaker":"Sarah Tomlinson","startTime":3770.618,"endTime":3771.969,"body":"thing to do for that farm."},{"speaker":"Andrew Jones","startTime":3772.25,"endTime":3773.106,"body":"I was going to ask"},{"speaker":"Andrew Jones","startTime":3773.106,"endTime":3773.994,"body":"you about that meeting because I"},{"speaker":"Andrew Jones","startTime":3773.994,"endTime":3774.763,"body":"would have liked to have been"},{"speaker":"Andrew Jones","startTime":3774.763,"endTime":3775.646,"body":"there myself, but unfortunately"},{"speaker":"Andrew Jones","startTime":3775.646,"endTime":3777.199,"body":"I was up and down in Derbyshire"},{"speaker":"Andrew Jones","startTime":3777.199,"endTime":3779.05,"body":"for the day. So I was, I was"},{"speaker":"Andrew Jones","startTime":3779.05,"endTime":3780.37,"body":"travelling home but um, but"},{"speaker":"Andrew Jones","startTime":3780.37,"endTime":3782.183,"body":"sounds like it was a successful"},{"speaker":"Andrew Jones","startTime":3782.183,"endTime":3783.17,"body":"meeting then."},{"speaker":"Sarah Tomlinson","startTime":3783.09,"endTime":3784.519,"body":"Yeah, it was"},{"speaker":"Sarah Tomlinson","startTime":3784.519,"endTime":3786.9,"body":"emotional as most TB meetings"},{"speaker":"Sarah Tomlinson","startTime":3786.9,"endTime":3789.156,"body":"are, because people hear the"},{"speaker":"Sarah Tomlinson","startTime":3789.156,"endTime":3791.223,"body":"headlines like we're not badger"},{"speaker":"Sarah Tomlinson","startTime":3791.223,"endTime":3792.69,"body":"culling anymore. But what I"},{"speaker":"Sarah Tomlinson","startTime":3792.69,"endTime":3794.183,"body":"think we did have a really good"},{"speaker":"Sarah Tomlinson","startTime":3794.183,"endTime":3795.706,"body":"panel and we had a really good"},{"speaker":"Sarah Tomlinson","startTime":3795.706,"endTime":3796.846,"body":"discussion with other people in"},{"speaker":"Sarah Tomlinson","startTime":3796.846,"endTime":3798.61,"body":"the room, other vets and farmers"},{"speaker":"Sarah Tomlinson","startTime":3798.61,"endTime":3800.769,"body":"adding into it was that actually"},{"speaker":"Sarah Tomlinson","startTime":3800.769,"endTime":3803.489,"body":"we've got a line in the sand."},{"speaker":"Sarah Tomlinson","startTime":3803.489,"endTime":3805.535,"body":"The badger culling is not a tool"},{"speaker":"Sarah Tomlinson","startTime":3805.535,"endTime":3807.289,"body":"that is available to us today."},{"speaker":"Sarah Tomlinson","startTime":3807.289,"endTime":3809.766,"body":"It might be in the future and"},{"speaker":"Sarah Tomlinson","startTime":3809.766,"endTime":3811.889,"body":"the NFU and other bodies can,"},{"speaker":"Sarah Tomlinson","startTime":3811.889,"endTime":3814.0,"body":"um, lobby and we can gain more"},{"speaker":"Sarah Tomlinson","startTime":3814.0,"endTime":3815.809,"body":"evidence that actually it is a"},{"speaker":"Sarah Tomlinson","startTime":3815.809,"endTime":3817.369,"body":"tool that should be available."},{"speaker":"Sarah Tomlinson","startTime":3817.369,"endTime":3818.65,"body":"And the refresh strategy"},{"speaker":"Sarah Tomlinson","startTime":3818.65,"endTime":3820.61,"body":"recommendations also talk about"},{"speaker":"Sarah Tomlinson","startTime":3820.61,"endTime":3823.284,"body":"that. But actually, what can we"},{"speaker":"Sarah Tomlinson","startTime":3823.284,"endTime":3825.77,"body":"do now? And, and it's quite a"},{"speaker":"Sarah Tomlinson","startTime":3825.77,"endTime":3827.25,"body":"brutal question that I normally"},{"speaker":"Sarah Tomlinson","startTime":3827.25,"endTime":3828.849,"body":"throw at at these sort of farmer"},{"speaker":"Sarah Tomlinson","startTime":3828.849,"endTime":3831.275,"body":"meetings. You can sit back and"},{"speaker":"Sarah Tomlinson","startTime":3831.275,"endTime":3832.8,"body":"do nothing and blame the"},{"speaker":"Sarah Tomlinson","startTime":3832.8,"endTime":3835.512,"body":"government for not acting. Or we"},{"speaker":"Sarah Tomlinson","startTime":3835.512,"endTime":3838.853,"body":"can look at what we can do as a"},{"speaker":"Sarah Tomlinson","startTime":3838.853,"endTime":3840.983,"body":"local group to move forward and,"},{"speaker":"Sarah Tomlinson","startTime":3840.983,"endTime":3842.893,"body":"and own it really, and not just"},{"speaker":"Sarah Tomlinson","startTime":3842.893,"endTime":3844.73,"body":"sit there and go, oh, if only"},{"speaker":"Sarah Tomlinson","startTime":3844.73,"endTime":3845.73,"body":"we'd have done something five"},{"speaker":"Sarah Tomlinson","startTime":3845.73,"endTime":3846.954,"body":"years ago, we wouldn't be back"},{"speaker":"Sarah Tomlinson","startTime":3846.954,"endTime":3848.929,"body":"to where we are. Because if we"},{"speaker":"Sarah Tomlinson","startTime":3848.929,"endTime":3851.45,"body":"do do nothing, then all of that"},{"speaker":"Sarah Tomlinson","startTime":3851.45,"endTime":3853.526,"body":"effort and money and heartache"},{"speaker":"Sarah Tomlinson","startTime":3853.526,"endTime":3856.238,"body":"and toil that farmers did put"},{"speaker":"Sarah Tomlinson","startTime":3856.238,"endTime":3859.322,"body":"into culling will not. We won't"},{"speaker":"Sarah Tomlinson","startTime":3859.322,"endTime":3861.169,"body":"bank those benefits. So that's"},{"speaker":"Sarah Tomlinson","startTime":3861.169,"endTime":3862.63,"body":"where the conclusion comes, is"},{"speaker":"Sarah Tomlinson","startTime":3862.63,"endTime":3864.09,"body":"we can sit here and do nothing."},{"speaker":"Sarah Tomlinson","startTime":3864.09,"endTime":3865.915,"body":"Or we could actually vaccinate"},{"speaker":"Sarah Tomlinson","startTime":3865.915,"endTime":3868.469,"body":"our badges and we can invest in"},{"speaker":"Sarah Tomlinson","startTime":3868.469,"endTime":3870.618,"body":"these these other tests and, and"},{"speaker":"Sarah Tomlinson","startTime":3870.618,"endTime":3873.026,"body":"not buy it back in. You know,"},{"speaker":"Sarah Tomlinson","startTime":3873.026,"endTime":3874.833,"body":"that's the that's the worry. I"},{"speaker":"Sarah Tomlinson","startTime":3874.833,"endTime":3876.677,"body":"know some of the farmers in the"},{"speaker":"Sarah Tomlinson","startTime":3876.677,"endTime":3878.084,"body":"the East Sussex area, they've"},{"speaker":"Sarah Tomlinson","startTime":3878.084,"endTime":3880.14,"body":"now reduced their TB. But, you"},{"speaker":"Sarah Tomlinson","startTime":3880.14,"endTime":3882.379,"body":"know, trade comes in what we now"},{"speaker":"Sarah Tomlinson","startTime":3882.379,"endTime":3884.285,"body":"need to. The message in that"},{"speaker":"Sarah Tomlinson","startTime":3884.285,"endTime":3886.184,"body":"area now is to understand what"},{"speaker":"Sarah Tomlinson","startTime":3886.184,"endTime":3887.383,"body":"the Pre-movement test results"},{"speaker":"Sarah Tomlinson","startTime":3887.383,"endTime":3889.15,"body":"mean for when and the herd"},{"speaker":"Sarah Tomlinson","startTime":3889.15,"endTime":3890.561,"body":"history of those animals that"},{"speaker":"Sarah Tomlinson","startTime":3890.561,"endTime":3892.478,"body":"you're buying in to make sure we"},{"speaker":"Sarah Tomlinson","startTime":3892.478,"endTime":3895.192,"body":"don't buy it back in, or if they"},{"speaker":"Sarah Tomlinson","startTime":3895.192,"endTime":3897.084,"body":"are riskier animals, we use"},{"speaker":"Sarah Tomlinson","startTime":3897.084,"endTime":3898.971,"body":"Afa's lfas these biosecure units"},{"speaker":"Sarah Tomlinson","startTime":3898.971,"endTime":3900.099,"body":"to manage them."},{"speaker":"Andrew Jones","startTime":3900.219,"endTime":3900.939,"body":"So I'm just"},{"speaker":"Andrew Jones","startTime":3900.939,"endTime":3902.68,"body":"looking at the time and I guess"},{"speaker":"Andrew Jones","startTime":3902.68,"endTime":3904.899,"body":"it's time to wrap it up. So any"},{"speaker":"Andrew Jones","startTime":3904.899,"endTime":3906.34,"body":"last words of wisdom?"},{"speaker":"Sarah Tomlinson","startTime":3906.3,"endTime":3907.02,"body":"Sarah Tomlinson"},{"speaker":"Sarah Tomlinson","startTime":3907.02,"endTime":3910.26,"body":"I just, I just think I know I am"},{"speaker":"Sarah Tomlinson","startTime":3910.26,"endTime":3911.723,"body":"an optimist, but I have spent"},{"speaker":"Sarah Tomlinson","startTime":3911.723,"endTime":3913.022,"body":"the last ten years of my life"},{"speaker":"Sarah Tomlinson","startTime":3913.022,"endTime":3914.539,"body":"talking to an awful lot of vets"},{"speaker":"Sarah Tomlinson","startTime":3914.539,"endTime":3916.392,"body":"and farmers. And I do genuinely"},{"speaker":"Sarah Tomlinson","startTime":3916.392,"endTime":3918.452,"body":"believe this addresses a lot of"},{"speaker":"Sarah Tomlinson","startTime":3918.452,"endTime":3920.94,"body":"the issues that we've had in the"},{"speaker":"Sarah Tomlinson","startTime":3920.94,"endTime":3923.389,"body":"past. And I know I sound like a"},{"speaker":"Sarah Tomlinson","startTime":3923.389,"endTime":3924.582,"body":"stuck record government, and"},{"speaker":"Sarah Tomlinson","startTime":3924.582,"endTime":3926.279,"body":"APHA and Defra can't do this on"},{"speaker":"Sarah Tomlinson","startTime":3926.279,"endTime":3927.6,"body":"their own, and in fact, we"},{"speaker":"Sarah Tomlinson","startTime":3927.6,"endTime":3929.253,"body":"shouldn't want them to lead on"},{"speaker":"Sarah Tomlinson","startTime":3929.253,"endTime":3931.859,"body":"it. I think we should. Vets and"},{"speaker":"Sarah Tomlinson","startTime":3931.859,"endTime":3933.539,"body":"farmers are really good at"},{"speaker":"Sarah Tomlinson","startTime":3933.539,"endTime":3935.159,"body":"managing infectious disease on"},{"speaker":"Sarah Tomlinson","startTime":3935.159,"endTime":3936.839,"body":"farm. You know, look at the"},{"speaker":"Sarah Tomlinson","startTime":3936.839,"endTime":3937.847,"body":"uni's prevalence that's declined"},{"speaker":"Sarah Tomlinson","startTime":3937.847,"endTime":3939.411,"body":"over the last however many"},{"speaker":"Sarah Tomlinson","startTime":3939.411,"endTime":3940.814,"body":"years. You know, I know we"},{"speaker":"Sarah Tomlinson","startTime":3940.814,"endTime":3942.32,"body":"haven't quite got to BBD kind of"},{"speaker":"Sarah Tomlinson","startTime":3942.32,"endTime":3943.352,"body":"eradication, but there's an"},{"speaker":"Sarah Tomlinson","startTime":3943.352,"endTime":3944.9,"body":"awful lot of dairy herds that"},{"speaker":"Sarah Tomlinson","startTime":3944.9,"endTime":3947.722,"body":"are now BVD free and we are good"},{"speaker":"Sarah Tomlinson","startTime":3947.722,"endTime":3949.84,"body":"at doing this. So actually let's"},{"speaker":"Sarah Tomlinson","startTime":3949.84,"endTime":3951.769,"body":"treat TB just like any other"},{"speaker":"Sarah Tomlinson","startTime":3951.769,"endTime":3953.477,"body":"infectious disease. And no, it"},{"speaker":"Sarah Tomlinson","startTime":3953.477,"endTime":3954.94,"body":"isn't because I know it's got"},{"speaker":"Sarah Tomlinson","startTime":3954.94,"endTime":3956.452,"body":"horrific impacts when we do go"},{"speaker":"Sarah Tomlinson","startTime":3956.452,"endTime":3958.167,"body":"under movement restrictions. But"},{"speaker":"Sarah Tomlinson","startTime":3958.167,"endTime":3961.209,"body":"my aim is that we do all of this"},{"speaker":"Sarah Tomlinson","startTime":3961.209,"endTime":3962.82,"body":"stuff and we stop the next"},{"speaker":"Sarah Tomlinson","startTime":3962.82,"endTime":3963.699,"body":"breakdown."},{"speaker":"Andrew Jones","startTime":3964.26,"endTime":3965.442,"body":"And Sarah Bolt,"},{"speaker":"Andrew Jones","startTime":3965.442,"endTime":3967.579,"body":"you've been quite quiet. So any"},{"speaker":"Andrew Jones","startTime":3967.579,"endTime":3968.98,"body":"last words of wisdom from"},{"speaker":"Andrew Jones","startTime":3968.98,"endTime":3969.26,"body":"yourself?"},{"speaker":"Sarah Bolt","startTime":3969.579,"endTime":3971.15,"body":"I've been very quiet"},{"speaker":"Sarah Bolt","startTime":3971.15,"endTime":3973.507,"body":"because it was such a great"},{"speaker":"Sarah Bolt","startTime":3973.507,"endTime":3974.732,"body":"conversation between the two of"},{"speaker":"Sarah Bolt","startTime":3974.732,"endTime":3977.34,"body":"you. And, you know, it's um, I"},{"speaker":"Sarah Bolt","startTime":3977.34,"endTime":3979.739,"body":"think that just from where I've"},{"speaker":"Sarah Bolt","startTime":3979.739,"endTime":3981.275,"body":"been listening to what you've"},{"speaker":"Sarah Bolt","startTime":3981.275,"endTime":3982.98,"body":"been saying, I think that this"},{"speaker":"Sarah Bolt","startTime":3982.98,"endTime":3985.216,"body":"strategy appears to put the"},{"speaker":"Sarah Bolt","startTime":3985.216,"endTime":3987.9,"body":"power into the hands of farmers"},{"speaker":"Sarah Bolt","startTime":3987.9,"endTime":3990.614,"body":"and their vets. And so I think"},{"speaker":"Sarah Bolt","startTime":3990.614,"endTime":3993.37,"body":"my message is, let's grasp this"},{"speaker":"Sarah Bolt","startTime":3993.37,"endTime":3995.192,"body":"opportunity with both hands to"},{"speaker":"Sarah Bolt","startTime":3995.192,"endTime":3997.3,"body":"actually drive towards that"},{"speaker":"Sarah Bolt","startTime":3997.3,"endTime":3999.229,"body":"eradication of TB. And Sarah,"},{"speaker":"Sarah Bolt","startTime":3999.229,"endTime":4000.455,"body":"you said that you were an"},{"speaker":"Sarah Bolt","startTime":4000.455,"endTime":4002.059,"body":"optimist. I think if we didn't"},{"speaker":"Sarah Bolt","startTime":4002.059,"endTime":4004.02,"body":"if we don't have people that are"},{"speaker":"Sarah Bolt","startTime":4004.02,"endTime":4005.98,"body":"optimistic, we can achieve that"},{"speaker":"Sarah Bolt","startTime":4005.98,"endTime":4008.92,"body":"eradication by by 2038, then"},{"speaker":"Sarah Bolt","startTime":4008.92,"endTime":4011.22,"body":"we're not even going to try. So"},{"speaker":"Sarah Bolt","startTime":4011.22,"endTime":4013.42,"body":"keep keep with that optimism."},{"speaker":"Sarah Bolt","startTime":4013.42,"endTime":4016.019,"body":"Keep sharing that optimism and,"},{"speaker":"Sarah Bolt","startTime":4016.019,"endTime":4018.34,"body":"and that belief, because without"},{"speaker":"Sarah Bolt","startTime":4018.34,"endTime":4020.42,"body":"it, we're not going to make"},{"speaker":"Sarah Bolt","startTime":4020.42,"endTime":4022.988,"body":"those changes. So I think it's"},{"speaker":"Sarah Bolt","startTime":4022.988,"endTime":4026.335,"body":"and I so to me, it just seems a"},{"speaker":"Sarah Bolt","startTime":4026.335,"endTime":4028.346,"body":"very positive, um, strategy"},{"speaker":"Sarah Bolt","startTime":4028.346,"endTime":4028.98,"body":"refresh."},{"speaker":"Andrew Jones","startTime":4029.099,"endTime":4030.068,"body":"So bringing this"},{"speaker":"Andrew Jones","startTime":4030.068,"endTime":4031.951,"body":"to a close, um, as usual, I'd"},{"speaker":"Andrew Jones","startTime":4031.951,"endTime":4033.255,"body":"like to say thank you very much"},{"speaker":"Andrew Jones","startTime":4033.255,"endTime":4035.096,"body":"to Sarah Tomlinson. It's been an"},{"speaker":"Andrew Jones","startTime":4035.096,"endTime":4036.367,"body":"absolute pleasure to have you on"},{"speaker":"Andrew Jones","startTime":4036.367,"endTime":4038.255,"body":"again. And like usual, we could"},{"speaker":"Andrew Jones","startTime":4038.255,"endTime":4040.207,"body":"just keep talking. And we know"},{"speaker":"Andrew Jones","startTime":4040.207,"endTime":4042.101,"body":"that this is a topic that"},{"speaker":"Andrew Jones","startTime":4042.101,"endTime":4044.226,"body":"there's so much in there, but we"},{"speaker":"Andrew Jones","startTime":4044.226,"endTime":4045.593,"body":"felt it was worth talking"},{"speaker":"Andrew Jones","startTime":4045.593,"endTime":4046.96,"body":"through the document that came"},{"speaker":"Andrew Jones","startTime":4046.96,"endTime":4049.339,"body":"out in June. What does it"},{"speaker":"Andrew Jones","startTime":4049.339,"endTime":4052.038,"body":"actually mean in reality? And by"},{"speaker":"Andrew Jones","startTime":4052.038,"endTime":4055.88,"body":"the sounds of it, yes, it's a"},{"speaker":"Andrew Jones","startTime":4055.88,"endTime":4057.669,"body":"roadmap. I probably would be the"},{"speaker":"Andrew Jones","startTime":4057.669,"endTime":4059.122,"body":"best way to describe it. There"},{"speaker":"Andrew Jones","startTime":4059.122,"endTime":4060.498,"body":"are things in there that we"},{"speaker":"Andrew Jones","startTime":4060.498,"endTime":4062.562,"body":"still need one or two boxes to"},{"speaker":"Andrew Jones","startTime":4062.562,"endTime":4063.63,"body":"be ticked before they can"},{"speaker":"Andrew Jones","startTime":4063.63,"endTime":4066.302,"body":"actually happen. Um, but it"},{"speaker":"Andrew Jones","startTime":4066.302,"endTime":4068.605,"body":"still gives us a plan moving"},{"speaker":"Andrew Jones","startTime":4068.605,"endTime":4070.226,"body":"forward. And as you say, some of"},{"speaker":"Andrew Jones","startTime":4070.226,"endTime":4071.464,"body":"these things, if you as an"},{"speaker":"Andrew Jones","startTime":4071.464,"endTime":4073.331,"body":"individual want to go and try"},{"speaker":"Andrew Jones","startTime":4073.331,"endTime":4074.992,"body":"some of those more sensitive"},{"speaker":"Andrew Jones","startTime":4074.992,"endTime":4076.943,"body":"tests, you may well, if you can"},{"speaker":"Andrew Jones","startTime":4076.943,"endTime":4078.374,"body":"make the argument for it, be"},{"speaker":"Andrew Jones","startTime":4078.374,"endTime":4080.787,"body":"able to go ahead and do that,"},{"speaker":"Andrew Jones","startTime":4080.787,"endTime":4083.116,"body":"which is which is fantastic. But"},{"speaker":"Andrew Jones","startTime":4083.116,"endTime":4084.361,"body":"it's lovely to hear that story"},{"speaker":"Andrew Jones","startTime":4084.361,"endTime":4086.014,"body":"that you mentioned about the guy"},{"speaker":"Andrew Jones","startTime":4086.014,"endTime":4087.661,"body":"at Sedgemoor, and actually"},{"speaker":"Andrew Jones","startTime":4087.661,"endTime":4090.02,"body":"managed to clear out more of the"},{"speaker":"Andrew Jones","startTime":4090.02,"endTime":4091.678,"body":"TB that was within his herd, and"},{"speaker":"Andrew Jones","startTime":4091.678,"endTime":4093.816,"body":"has seen a positive step from"},{"speaker":"Andrew Jones","startTime":4093.816,"endTime":4096.194,"body":"making that investment in his"},{"speaker":"Andrew Jones","startTime":4096.194,"endTime":4098.989,"body":"herd. Um, but so, so really."},{"speaker":"Andrew Jones","startTime":4098.989,"endTime":4100.75,"body":"Yeah, it's thank you to Sarah."},{"speaker":"Andrew Jones","startTime":4100.75,"endTime":4103.329,"body":"It's been, as usual, a very, um,"},{"speaker":"Andrew Jones","startTime":4103.329,"endTime":4106.149,"body":"a conversation full of a lot of"},{"speaker":"Andrew Jones","startTime":4106.149,"endTime":4107.85,"body":"information, a lot for people to"},{"speaker":"Andrew Jones","startTime":4107.85,"endTime":4110.552,"body":"take in. And again, it's a very,"},{"speaker":"Andrew Jones","startTime":4110.552,"endTime":4112.81,"body":"it can be very emotive, um"},{"speaker":"Andrew Jones","startTime":4112.81,"endTime":4114.993,"body":"conversation, Um, as per last"},{"speaker":"Andrew Jones","startTime":4114.993,"endTime":4118.05,"body":"time, we will put up some links"},{"speaker":"Andrew Jones","startTime":4118.05,"endTime":4120.85,"body":"in the show notes for, um, uh,"},{"speaker":"Andrew Jones","startTime":4120.85,"endTime":4123.649,"body":"some people you can talk to if"},{"speaker":"Andrew Jones","startTime":4123.649,"endTime":4125.393,"body":"you feel you need to talk to"},{"speaker":"Andrew Jones","startTime":4125.393,"endTime":4126.39,"body":"somebody about this, whether"},{"speaker":"Andrew Jones","startTime":4126.39,"endTime":4129.11,"body":"that's, um, is it yellow wellies"},{"speaker":"Andrew Jones","startTime":4129.11,"endTime":4132.312,"body":"or FCN or whoever it was? Um,"},{"speaker":"Andrew Jones","startTime":4132.312,"endTime":4134.729,"body":"but otherwise I guess, um,"},{"speaker":"Andrew Jones","startTime":4134.729,"endTime":4135.989,"body":"hopefully this has been"},{"speaker":"Andrew Jones","startTime":4135.989,"endTime":4137.109,"body":"informative for people"},{"speaker":"Andrew Jones","startTime":4137.109,"endTime":4139.229,"body":"listening. Um, and we'll break"},{"speaker":"Andrew Jones","startTime":4139.229,"endTime":4141.149,"body":"down what that fifty five page"},{"speaker":"Andrew Jones","startTime":4141.149,"endTime":4142.883,"body":"document is because it's a big"},{"speaker":"Andrew Jones","startTime":4142.883,"endTime":4144.57,"body":"old document. And as I say, I"},{"speaker":"Andrew Jones","startTime":4144.57,"endTime":4146.056,"body":"thought I'd try and cheat. Um,"},{"speaker":"Andrew Jones","startTime":4146.056,"endTime":4147.786,"body":"but obviously like all these"},{"speaker":"Andrew Jones","startTime":4147.786,"endTime":4149.17,"body":"things, there's no, nothing"},{"speaker":"Andrew Jones","startTime":4149.17,"endTime":4150.36,"body":"beats actually reading it or"},{"speaker":"Andrew Jones","startTime":4150.36,"endTime":4151.789,"body":"talking to the people that know"},{"speaker":"Andrew Jones","startTime":4151.789,"endTime":4153.581,"body":"about this stuff. Um, but"},{"speaker":"Andrew Jones","startTime":4153.581,"endTime":4155.357,"body":"otherwise I guess it's a goodbye"},{"speaker":"Andrew Jones","startTime":4155.357,"endTime":4155.949,"body":"from me."},{"speaker":"Sarah Bolt","startTime":4156.43,"endTime":4157.109,"body":"Thank you Sarah."},{"speaker":"Sarah Bolt","startTime":4157.109,"endTime":4158.63,"body":"It's goodbye from me too."},{"speaker":"Sarah Tomlinson","startTime":4159.109,"endTime":4160.009,"body":"And thank you"},{"speaker":"Sarah Tomlinson","startTime":4160.009,"endTime":4161.51,"body":"for the opportunity because I"},{"speaker":"Sarah Tomlinson","startTime":4161.51,"endTime":4163.48,"body":"like talking about TB, because I"},{"speaker":"Sarah Tomlinson","startTime":4163.48,"endTime":4165.149,"body":"think the more people understand"},{"speaker":"Sarah Tomlinson","startTime":4165.149,"endTime":4167.029,"body":"it better it will be."},{"speaker":"Andrew Jones","startTime":4168.029,"endTime":4169.15,"body":"So thank you very"},{"speaker":"Andrew Jones","startTime":4169.15,"endTime":4169.43,"body":"much."},{"speaker":"Victoria Ham","startTime":4176.39,"endTime":4177.266,"body":"Arm \u0026 Hammer"},{"speaker":"Victoria Ham","startTime":4177.266,"endTime":4179.422,"body":"Animal Nutrition are pleased to"},{"speaker":"Victoria Ham","startTime":4179.422,"endTime":4181.443,"body":"support ChewintheCud Podcast."},{"speaker":"Victoria Ham","startTime":4181.443,"endTime":4183.465,"body":"We're all in when it comes to"},{"speaker":"Victoria Ham","startTime":4183.465,"endTime":4185.486,"body":"supporting healthy productive"},{"speaker":"Victoria Ham","startTime":4185.486,"endTime":4187.305,"body":"farm animals. Please visit"},{"speaker":"Victoria Ham","startTime":4187.305,"endTime":4189.394,"body":"ahanimalnutrition.com for more"},{"speaker":"Victoria Ham","startTime":4189.394,"endTime":4190.27,"body":"information."},{"speaker":"Andrew Jones","startTime":4232.159,"endTime":4232.896,"body":"Thank you for"},{"speaker":"Andrew Jones","startTime":4232.896,"endTime":4234.475,"body":"listening to the ChewintheCud"},{"speaker":"Andrew Jones","startTime":4234.475,"endTime":4235.949,"body":"Podcast, where we bring you"},{"speaker":"Andrew Jones","startTime":4235.949,"endTime":4237.423,"body":"conversations for the dairy"},{"speaker":"Andrew Jones","startTime":4237.423,"endTime":4239.107,"body":"industry, produced in the South"},{"speaker":"Andrew Jones","startTime":4239.107,"endTime":4240.844,"body":"West of England, and listened to"},{"speaker":"Andrew Jones","startTime":4240.844,"endTime":4242.423,"body":"around the world. And now for"},{"speaker":"Andrew Jones","startTime":4242.423,"endTime":4244.16,"body":"the really boring bit I'm afraid"},{"speaker":"Andrew Jones","startTime":4244.16,"endTime":4245.634,"body":"— the legal disclaimer. The"},{"speaker":"Andrew Jones","startTime":4245.634,"endTime":4247.371,"body":"information provided during this"},{"speaker":"Andrew Jones","startTime":4247.371,"endTime":4248.95,"body":"podcast has been prepared for"},{"speaker":"Andrew Jones","startTime":4248.95,"endTime":4250.476,"body":"general information purposes"},{"speaker":"Andrew Jones","startTime":4250.476,"endTime":4252.003,"body":"only and does not constitute"},{"speaker":"Andrew Jones","startTime":4252.003,"endTime":4253.74,"body":"advice. The information must not"},{"speaker":"Andrew Jones","startTime":4253.74,"endTime":4255.371,"body":"be relied upon for any purpose"},{"speaker":"Andrew Jones","startTime":4255.371,"endTime":4256.687,"body":"and no representation or"},{"speaker":"Andrew Jones","startTime":4256.687,"endTime":4258.003,"body":"warranty is given to its"},{"speaker":"Andrew Jones","startTime":4258.003,"endTime":4259.372,"body":"accuracy, completeness or"},{"speaker":"Andrew Jones","startTime":4259.372,"endTime":4260.845,"body":"otherwise. Any reference to"},{"speaker":"Andrew Jones","startTime":4260.845,"endTime":4262.53,"body":"other organisations, businesses"},{"speaker":"Andrew Jones","startTime":4262.53,"endTime":4264.214,"body":"or products during this podcast"},{"speaker":"Andrew Jones","startTime":4264.214,"endTime":4265.477,"body":"are not endorsements or"},{"speaker":"Andrew Jones","startTime":4265.477,"endTime":4267.162,"body":"recommendations of ChewintheCud"},{"speaker":"Andrew Jones","startTime":4267.162,"endTime":4268.793,"body":"Ltd. The views of Andrew Jones"},{"speaker":"Andrew Jones","startTime":4268.793,"endTime":4270.478,"body":"are personal and may not be the"},{"speaker":"Andrew Jones","startTime":4270.478,"endTime":4272.109,"body":"views of ChewintheCud Ltd, and"},{"speaker":"Andrew Jones","startTime":4272.109,"endTime":4273.583,"body":"the views of Sarah Bolt are"},{"speaker":"Andrew Jones","startTime":4273.583,"endTime":4275.057,"body":"personal and may not be the"},{"speaker":"Andrew Jones","startTime":4275.057,"endTime":4276.636,"body":"views of Kingshay Farming and"},{"speaker":"Andrew Jones","startTime":4276.636,"endTime":4278.005,"body":"Conservation Ltd, and any"},{"speaker":"Andrew Jones","startTime":4278.005,"endTime":4279.636,"body":"affiliated companies. For more"},{"speaker":"Andrew Jones","startTime":4279.636,"endTime":4281.268,"body":"information on the podcast and"},{"speaker":"Andrew Jones","startTime":4281.268,"endTime":4282.9,"body":"details of services offered by"},{"speaker":"Andrew Jones","startTime":4282.9,"endTime":4284.11,"body":"ChewintheCud Ltd visit"},{"speaker":"Andrew Jones","startTime":4284.11,"endTime":4285.795,"body":"www.chewinthecud.com. Thank you"},{"speaker":"Andrew Jones","startTime":4285.795,"endTime":4286.479,"body":"and goodbye."}]}