This week I am joined by the wonderful Chris Antartis, the director of Rebel Recruitment, as he unravels the secrets of successful allied health recruitment. We dive into hot topics of: Starting your job hunt, LinkedIn, the benefits of using a recruitment consultant and so much more!
Chris can be contacted through:
https://www.linkedin.com/in/chris-antartis-recruitment/
https://rebelrecruitment.com.au/
Happy Listening!
This week I am joined by the wonderful Chris Antartis, the director of Rebel Recruitment, as he unravels the secrets of successful allied health recruitment. We dive into hot topics of: Starting your job hunt, LinkedIn, the benefits of using a recruitment consultant and so much more!
Chris can be contacted through:
https://www.linkedin.com/in/chris-antartis-recruitment/
https://rebelrecruitment.com.au/
Happy Listening!
Today's episode is very proudly brought to you by InReach Co, australia's first exclusively regional, rural and remote Allied Health job platform. Inreach Co was created by Allied Health professionals for Allied Health professionals and is committed to connecting Australian communities with the Allied Health care workers they need For a simple and interactive way to explore current regional and remote positions, or for businesses wanting to explore job advertisement opportunities. Head to wwwinreachcocomau. The links will also be in the show notes. G'day guys and welcome to Holly the OT podcast. My name is Holly and I am an occupational therapist looking to create a judgment-free zone for all OT students, new grads and early year therapists. Join me as I give my honest opinions on the highs and the lows and the ins and the outs of being an OT. Before I start today's episode, I'd like to acknowledge the Wujak Nongaw people who are the traditional custodians of the land this episode was recorded. G'day guys, welcome back to another episode of Holly the OT podcast. As always, thank you so much for tuning in. I appreciate it. I have got another cracker of an episode for you today. As I say about all episodes, because I love my podcast, but this one is no exception. I have the absolute legend Chris from Rebel Recruitment. If you're over on LinkedIn, you probably know who Chris is and he floats around on the groom every now and then too. But Chris is a recruitment consultant. He owns his own recruitment consulting business and is just a legend and is so insightful and knows the market, knows what people are looking for, and I just think it's so important to hear all perspectives of the OT journey in that job hunt phase and keeping jobs and what to look for, and Chris offers that really unique lens coming from that recruitment vibe. So I think you guys are going to love this chat. Chris is also an absolute legend. I met up with Chris a few months ago when I first came to Perth and he's just so nice and so chill and I just I think you guys will love it because Chris is great. But before we get into that, let's do my highs and my lows as we like to do.
Holly:My high for the week is I just had a really great weekend. If you're new to the pod, my partner works FIFO, so two weekends in a row like I'm by myself here in Perth and you know it's not the best, it's not ideal, but I'm learning to sort of love my own company and hanging out with myself while he's away at work. Because I still don't really have friends here in Perth, which is fine, like it'll happen. It's hard to make friends in the city, but I just really enjoyed my company this weekend, like the weather was absolutely popping off I sound like such a millennial saying that but it was just really, really nice weather. I went to the beach like five times, read some books, juged up the house, did some cleaning, popped some music on, took myself out for lunch and dinner. It was just nice. It was a really nice vibe.
Holly:My low for the week is I'm drowning in functional capacity assessments and I am up to my absolute eyeballs in reports, and that's okay. I don't love it, but it's okay. That's just my low and I will soldier on, I'll push through, I'll get my reports done and you won't hear me complain about it again. But yeah, now I've got an exciting announcement for you guys, which is fun. If you are a new grad, this is specifically geared to you. If you are not a new grad, buckle up for the next three minutes and skip me, or just listen anyway.
Holly:But I'm opening up spots for mentoring in 2024, so, which just sounds wild, by the way, that I'm saying 2024. Like, does anyone else just still think it's 2010? Is that just me? But I started doing mentoring last year. I've always done mentoring in every role that I've been in, with Allied Health Assistance and just anyone. That sort of needs that extra support. But officially started doing it this year with about five or six clients that were sort of on different parts of their journey and I just absolutely love it. It's all over telehealth, so you can be anywhere in the country and the best part is I can be anywhere in the country. You guys know how much I love to not stay still, but yeah, I'm so excited the spots are unlimited.
Holly:But I can be flexible with times and there are a few different options of what I am going to introduce. So one-to-one clinical mentoring that can be as regularly as weekly, it can be fortnightly, it can be monthly, so it's totally up to you and the business you're in. I could be your sole supervisor. If you don't have any higher OTs in your organization, I could be like a little extra monthly check-in, just extra support. Yeah, it's definitely what you want it to be and we can definitely chat and I can chat with your employer as well about what they might think will suit you best.
Holly:But for those one-to-one clinical mentorships, it is strictly pediatric caseloads only, because your girl knows nothing else. I can probably fill in the gaps here and there, but PEDS is my area. So if you're sort of going to that adult disability space or anything other than the NDIS, I'm definitely not the person for you for that one-to-one mentoring. But if you're working pediatrics, it is my absolute jam and I love to share my knowledge. So definitely just reach out and have a chat and we can see whether it's going to be the right fit. I think I've got to be the right fit for you and you've got to be the right fit for me. It's all about sort of making that connection and building that really strong relationship which I think is so important.
Holly:The other thing that I'm going to be offering is group mentoring, so you might have really good supervision within your workplace and you might just want that extra guidance, that extra check-in, that sort of peer support External from your friends, external from your workplace just that regular check-in for making sure that you are on the right track, I guess, and just buffing out any of those questions that pop up along the way. So group mentoring is going to be small groups, so four to five people in a group, and it will be once a month. If the demand is there, we can bump it up to fortnightly, but I think once a month is regular enough that it stays consistent, but not too regular that it's interfering with all the other incredible things you're going to be doing. So group mentoring really, really excited for this. Again, it's going to be over zoom and if there's enough for two or three groups, then we'll obviously split groups into case loads and personalities and things like that. But definitely just split me a message and we can have a little yarn about it and see if you think it'll be suitable for you.
Holly:For the group mentoring doesn't matter what your case load is going to be, because it's going to be more about those non-clinical skills just your resilience, your burnout levels, your understanding of workplaces, things like that and it's very much going to be discussion based and there'll be a different topic each week that I'll sort of lead the discussion for and then we'll sort of ask each other questions and just sort of unpack things that way, which I think is going to be really, really cool. Now, if you are someone who would love to know more but are hesitant just because you just aren't really sure what it involves. Often when things like this, it's like the unknown of holy how much does it cost? And some people can be a little bit sort of closed off with sharing that cost. But I'm not about that, because I think transparency is so important. So for the group mentoring it will be $25 a session per person and that is once a month, and then for one-to-one supervision, this will depend on your workplace, purely because if your workplace is paying for it it will be the full price and then if you pay for it privately it will be a discounted price. So it's $140 per hour for my personal rate for that one-to-one clinical mentorship if your business is paying for it. And I offer a private membership oh, not a membership, you are not signing up to me a private discount, sorry to support people that where their workplace might not be willing to pay for external supervision. And I just don't think it's fair in your new grade year to have to fork out all that money for your own development, I guess. So $120 if you are paying privately. So reach out, have a yarn, let's see if we can get supervision off the ground. I honestly love it. I genuinely, genuinely look forward to all of my mentoring clients I have at the moment and I just am so excited to keep this going and continue into 2024. So slide into those DMs and let's do it Now.
Holly:Like I said at the start, today's episode is the wonderful Chris from Rebel Recruitment. Chris and I unpack quite a bit in this episode a little bit about the recruitment process, how he came to be a recruiter, and we also have a lovely chat about LinkedIn and why OTs are always so bombarded with messages. So stay tuned for that. That's about midway through the chat, but Chris is an absolute legend and I think you're going to love it. Let's do it Alrighty. Welcoming the next guest to the Holly the OT pod. We have the wonderful Chris. Chris is the director of Rebel Recruitment. Rebel is an allied health recruitment company passionate about helping allied health professionals know their worth and find the job that is best suited to them. Chris is an absolute legend and we're going to get into all sorts of things in this chat. I'm very excited. Welcome, chris, to the Holly the OT pod. Thank you for having me, holly, really excited to be on here.
Holly:Amazing Chris, we caught up for coffee a few months ago, and when I first sat down, you said to me Holly, give me your two truths and a lie. So I know that you know what I'm about to ask you but I'm going to ask you anyway. What have you got for me? Two truths and a lie. I've had a really good success rate lately, so I'm excited to see what you've got.
Chris:I can't remember you I didn't think you gave me your ones actually, so we actually we know Alright so I had to think about this a bit, so I hope I can stump you up. So the first one in my career and I'm only 31 years old. Okay, so in my career I have worked 20 different jobs. The other one is I have bought a one-way ticket to Brazil and travelled around. And the last one is my last name. Antartus actually means recruit in Greek.
Holly:Oh fun, these are good ones. 20 jobs is a lot of jobs, but I feel like you've been around and you've done a few different things, so I don't think that's completely a lie. I think you're going to stump me on details. I feel like you did go to Brazil on a one-way ticket and I feel like your last name does mean recruit, which is probably some roundabout way of how you got to recruitment. So I'm going to say the first one's a lie.
Chris:The 20 jobs. Yeah, no, that's true. Yeah, so I'll tell you my lie then.
Holly:Tell me, tell me.
Chris:Alright, the lie is my last name, antartus. It actually means rebel, not recruit, which is why I call the company rebel recruitment.
Holly:See, I like when people stump me on details, because that was sort of true but sort of not true and there's probably people listening that know the Greek language well and thinking like holy, why would it mean recruit? Like what a stupid thing that would mean.
Chris:Very good, very good. Thank you very much. Yeah, I had to get you. I had to get you 20 jobs. 20 jobs, yeah, I actually counted because I was thinking. I was actually saying to my wife I was like what should I start? You know, use this as my two-primms of lie and she said why don't you talk about like how many jobs you've had? I'm like how many have I had? And we literally counted them and I was like, geez, you got to 20 and I'm like that's crazy. I'm only like 31. I just started like around when I was like 18 after school. So, yeah, 20 jobs.
Holly:Give your favorite job, being of your 20.
Chris:Definitely this one. I guess, yeah, I guess this is probably the best one. I have worked in hospitality and different bars and things like that, so that was always a good fun too. So, yeah, I think, probably definitely this job. I'm doing right now being the business owner and being recruitment and now I'm helping with space. I love, yeah, definitely this.
Holly:And what was Bravill like?
Chris:Oh, it was amazing. So I went there to see the Olympics and I watched Usain Bolt run and we watched all these different Olympic games and we just travelled from Brazil all the way through South America for like six months and, yeah, we just lived a life. It was fantastic.
Holly:Now, before we get into all things, recruitment and allied health and everything we're going to talk about. Tell me a little bit more about you. I know you've recently had a little bar bar, so you're probably very, very busy, but what else do you do outside of work? How do you spend your time?
Chris:Yeah, so I was thinking about this as well, because I would actually do besides work.
Holly:Besides work, when you're business owner, you work all the time. We'll talk about this in a little bit of time.
Chris:Yeah, literally so well, I'm a massive football and sports fan, so I love AFL and I used to play a lot of football as well. So it used to be like Tuesday, thursday, saturdays I'd be training playing games, and that was for most of the year as well, because I played spring football. So pretty much 12 months of the year I'd be playing football. I'm older now, like I said, 31. So I can't keep up with the young guys, so I've just changed to like watching the football instead, just watching football pretty much all weekend. I play, like you know, just like those food, tipping games and fantasy stuff and all other sports as well.
Chris:I love all kind of sports. So just really my downtime is really that. But like I'm pretty, I'm pretty regular guy. I like to go out and have a few drinks with my mates and, now that we've had the babies, pretty much having drinks during the day on the weekends, so you can get home before bedtime. Yeah, I love the beach, love going out in the sun. I mean, perth is such a beautiful place in winter, summertime. So, yeah, love just going to nice places and just enjoy nice foods. And yeah, that's pretty much me, that's pretty much what I do.
Holly:Who do you barricade for in the footy?
Chris:Oh geez, so I go for North Melbourne. All right, now don't, don't judge me on that, and whoever's listening yeah, it's a hard time for me. I've supported them when I was like five years old and they were really good back then. And obviously, when you're a five year old kid who makes life decisions at five years old, seriously, I made a life decision to support North Melbourne and it's cost me greatly. I mean, for a guy who loves football so much, to watch his team lose every weekend is honestly pretty heartbreaking. But yeah, so North Melbourne supporter.
Holly:There you go and I'm still learning all about AFL, obviously coming from the East Coast and big NRL, but my team, the Tigers, Wood and Spoon is two years in a row, so I know how it feels and, like you said, these life decisions you make when you're a little young whippersnapper and you don't realise the mental impact it will have on you as an adult. So I feel it.
Chris:Did you watch the Grand Final, the NRL Grand Final? That was fantastic.
Holly:Absolutely Fantastic if you're a neutral fan. I just the whole time I was thinking, god, I'm so glad I don't support either of these teams but it was a good game. It was a very good game.
Chris:Yeah, it really was. So that's pretty about me. Yeah, that's what I'd pretty much do for the outside of work.
Holly:Now 20 jobs, so you've had a journey to get to where you are. I want to know how you landed on working in allied health recruitment and what led you to going down that path.
Chris:Yeah, sure. So, yeah, 20 jobs. So pretty much I leave in school. I didn't really know what to do, Like I didn't really have a, I didn't grade, I didn't, you know, apply for university or anything like that. So I just went to high school and then when you're 18, you can't just like picked up. I just picked up a few laboring jobs and forklifting jobs, and then one of my forklifting jobs I had like a sales team. So I was about 20 at this point.
Chris:So I had a sales team, had like a customer service and sales reps, and they said, why don't you just come in and, you know, be on the phones, for instance, and just talk to customers? And I started doing that for about a year and then they I was actually doing pretty good at it. So then they put me into sales rep at 22, which is very young at that stage, because selling like pneumatics, which is like air pressure stuff, which is the most boring thing in the whole white world, so I sell in this product. I was like I'm 22 years old, I'm like I could not care less about, you know, pneumatics and air products. So anyway, that's why I said, well, why don't we go traveling? So by 24,. We saved up enough money to go traveling and got a one way ticket away to Brazil, traveled through South America, gone to North America and got a visa for Canada, where I worked as a bartender and bar manager, what is some. Well, basically I was playing football over there as well as training football, and the coach was the owner of the bar. So that was pretty much how I got the job. So, yeah, did that for a couple of years, but I really always like the, the, the relationships of people. Even in bartender, you're meeting new people all the time. You're always you've kind of you're upselling as well. Like you know, do you want to double Jackson Coke instead of regular Jackson Coke? Yeah, exactly right. So I did that.
Chris:Came home, it was like probably about 2019, like 2019. And I was like, oh, I've got to find a career now because you know I don't want to do air pressure sales again. And I started, I went, I applied for this job. It was like a door knocking position. I didn't realize it was door knocking position, but when they applied for it I was like, okay, still knocking, whatever, I'll just give it a crack. But it was fantastic skills because it really taught me how to speak to different companies. I was basically walking around the CVD, knocking on company doors and speaking to whoever and trying to sell them charities and trying to sell them you know, broadband, like just anything really, and it taught me a lot of resilience, though, like I've just speaks about probably 50 people a day and maybe get two sales. So, like you know, it can break here sometimes that door knocking key.
Chris:I did it for about six months and then I think it was around COVID. I was like I'm done with this. I was at the point of like I got to do something different and then COVID happened and I was like, well, obviously, face to face sales and door knocking and COVID is a very conflicting, you know, pair. So it was at this time I was like playing soccer as well with a few friends and a recruiter was like I was like to him, do you mind if you find me some work? And he was a tech recruiter and I had no idea how, like you know, tech recruitment and health recruitment and there's always different, like you know, areas and he said why don't you just do recruitment? You've already got the sales skills you know, and he's like you know, and recruitment is pretty much placing people with companies. So it's like you're selling. You're selling people really to other people and I always had a problem with products, like I said.
Chris:You know, I've never really I didn't really care for like the broad bands and I didn't really care for the air pressure stuff and that's actually probably more what I like, more about the people. So, yeah, I applied for a job at a big agency and I started doing a blue collar recruitment and I did that for about nine months, which was good. It was good to learn the process of what recruitment was. And then I applied for another job where someone said to me you should do healthcare recruitment. Allied Health is. You know they talk about physios and OTs. I said, yeah, I know I've got a few mates of OTs and physios, so I know a little bit about it. And then, yeah, started doing Allied Health recruitment. From then. That was probably about two and a half years ago. And yeah, here I am with my own recruitment business and doing Allied Health recruitment by myself.
Holly:Wonderful things. I'm out and you're not just doing it well which is very, very good. I love that you touched on the resilience that you needed for the sales positions, because I always think that whenever someone knocks on my door or whenever you get this phone calls, I always think I feel so sorry for these people because they're just getting rejected and rejected. Yeah, you know the people in the middle of the shopping centers.
Holly:I always will stop and talk to them because I feel so sad for them. You see, them just get ignored and it takes a certain type of resilience, I think, to put yourself in those positions and learn those people's skills in that way. So take my hat off to you and anyone that does that.
Chris:Yeah, definitely, I think as well, and it's hard because a lot of people who go into a really wanted career they're trying to think, they're trying to figure out their lives and everyone is the same. I was in a situation where I wanted to learn, so I really just use that as like a game for myself. Like how do I speak to people? When I speak to a manager, you got to speak to them differently to a receptionist, so I was learning different things from like speaking to people and learning what people wanted to know and like what it's how to speak to everyone. So it was really and I just use it as a game and at the end of six months you're like I don't really want to play this game anymore.
Holly:Tarring games to play out 100%.
Chris:yeah, that was really good though.
Holly:Now we at uni, when we, you know, been taught about jobs and taught about everything we need to know, no one really learns about what our life health recruiters are, what they do, what their role is. It's probably a bad thing, but we genuinely don't learn about it. So what I would love for you to do for us, chris, is to sort of paint the picture. What is your role, who do you work for, how does it work? And maybe from the perspective of a business owner and from an allied health professional as well, what do you do?
Chris:Yeah, great question. I actually actually every new graduate says that when I speak to them they're like so what do you actually do? So I'll put it simply for a company I help their companies find them suitable candidates to work for For them, sorry. And then for the candidate side of things, for the students and for the therapists, I will help them find the best suitable job that's tailored to what they're looking for.
Chris:I guess at this and I guess the market right now, most allied health companies are really looking for people to join them and when you think about it as a company and you might have been like an internal recruitment team or you might not have even anything, you might just be a business owner to actually spend time to find people is a lot of the time and effort. So putting a job ad and hoping for the best, sometimes it's probably not working at the moment. So someone like myself coming into like as an extension of the company and really finding them suitable people for them, is very beneficial for a company standpoint and, yeah, for the therapist side of things as well. It's very similar, because I think right now it is like I had a look last night. I think it's about 700 jobs, ot jobs in Perth. I think it is, I don't think it's, I don't know WA, I guess, like just the so.
Chris:I think, if I don't think, there's 700 OT. It's that WA looking for work. So it's very hard to for a candidate for an OT to go. I'm going to look for a job now and they see that and they go far out. Where do I even start? So that's where I can help out and say, well, these, where do you, you know, basically break it down for them and help them out with the job that is suitable for them.
Holly:Yeah, absolutely, and I guess what is a typical day look like for you. Obviously, you're dealing with many different stakeholders and doing different things. What do you typically do in a day, then?
Chris:Yeah, so I start my day off every day, wake up at 5am. I know this is not really work related, but I read a book called 5M Club by Robin Sharma. I'm not sure if you've heard of it, but it was really honestly changed a lot of my professional life. Because what happened? I used to wake up at like 7.30, get to work at 8, you know, and then get a coffee and by the time my day is in, I'm like, okay, I'm starting to be productive at ground ten-ish, Starting at 5, I'd go for a workout, I come home and read a book I will do it in my journal write some gratitudes and then I'll spend some time with the family and then I'll be ready to get ready for work.
Chris:And by that time it's 8 o'clock and I've already basically done everything personally that I need to do and I'm ready to just attack the day.
Chris:And then what I will try and do from 8 o'clock is I always try and set up either a meeting with someone either a therapist or just someone in the allied health market and just try and catch up with someone.
Chris:I find it's always good to meet up with people because you get to learn so much more from people in person and it's always good to be around other people in the market and in the industry that actually knows what's going on, and they give me information and I give them information and we kind of just like and sometimes it's like for an interview process where someone's gone for an interview so I can meet them in person, help them out for jobs, and then I'll usually and it really depends right.
Chris:So right now there's a lot of my people I'm working with are gone for contracts. So right now it's really about seeing how they're going through the resignation stage, seeing how they're travelling to go to start, is everything on the onboarding process going to be okay, seeing if the companies are good for them to start as well, and that just changes. So sometimes I'll be looking for, I'll be speaking to companies about what jobs are available. I'll be speaking to therapists on when they are available to go out to meet companies. So, yeah, it always changes. It's always quite fluid, but I always try and meet as many people as I can during the week.
Holly:It sounds like you do a lot of that sort of middle work, sort of that the glue between the two parties, and I imagine with that would come a lot of conversations, a lot of catching ups and a lot of chats. But yeah, it sounds like you're doing a lot of that middle work stuff. Yeah, 100%.
Chris:I'm like a matchmaker. I say sometimes I'm like the matchmaker in between the two, and that's why it's important to understand the market as best as possible, because not everyone's for each other, so not every company that looks you might look at, the company's gone, see, go, wow, that's amazing, but really sickly for yourself, and what you are looking for in a job might not exactly be that role. So it's very important to know what everyone wants are and what their needs are and what their future looks like, because, yeah, everything, everyone and everything is different, so it's very important to know what's going on.
Holly:What are some main things you look for, I guess, when you're doing that matchmaking? If you've got a company and you've got a candidate and you're trying to figure out who's the right fit, what are the things that I guess you asked the companies to learn more about? What do you ask the candidate about? What are those main things that you try to match?
Chris:Yeah, that's a great question. I think when I speak to candidates I really try and find out a few certain things. So I try and find out where I mean Perth is quite big, so I really try and find where the location is, where they live. If they're living in, you know, dune's Lup, and then, like North the River, they're not going to travel South the River 45 minutes just to go to the office. So I find out where exactly they are, then I'll try and find out as well and this is no particular order, by the way, it's more the salary expectations as well. What are they looking for Salary wise? What's their case load?
Chris:I mean, I'm not going to put a candidate who wants pediatrics forward to an aged care facility and also the career progression as well on PD, because obviously that's another thing. Some people don't really want career progression. Some people just want to like work as an OT. They're done, they don't want senior positions and they're just happy to work in the case, so that they're like. So it's very important to find out those things and then from there I really just find out.
Chris:That's probably the crux of it and then after that I find out more about what they are looking for, like you know, what are they, what's their future look like? I mean, we'll come like the career progression, but a bit more on top of that, more about their personality and what they want as a, what I see themselves like maybe they'll go oh, five years, someone want to be an owner of my own company. I'm like, okay, well, you know, maybe this company will be good for you, because then you actually learn so much about the business side of things and you know you actually grow in that company. You might not even want to be a business owner in five years, so you might just be a state manager, for instance. So there's so many different things that you can look into and yeah, that's how I kind of break it down really.
Holly:How long does that process usually take? If someone's thinking I want to quit my job and find a new job, what sort of timeframe do you look at for people?
Chris:Yeah, it depends on how quick someone wants to move. Sometimes, I mean sometimes, I speak to people who I've spoke to about, you know, for about a year now, for nearly a year, and so it's kind of like, and they're not ready to move, but they're saying, when there's a right job I'll be ready. So then for you, just wait, you're just speaking to the company's about oh, does that position exist? No, it doesn't. Okay, well, let me know if it ever does, because I think it would fit. So it kind of works out like that too. Sometimes it could be just someone who calls me up and says I'm looking for a job with this much money, this area, I'm ready for interviews next week. You know, at this time it's like perfect, I will sort that out for you too. So it can happen really quickly. It can happen quite a long time as well. It depends really.
Holly:Absolutely, and everyone's journey is so different in that aspect when they're looking for a new job, isn't it?
Chris:100%. Yeah, everyone's so different. That's what I think is important to know. It's very tailored to everyone else. And just on that, everyone is going to speak to other therapists, right? So every therapist talks up a therapist and they always say, oh, but you know, this is what's happening in the market and this was they're saying is, you know, a really bad place to a really good place. You need to find out that you fit yourself, because you're not going to actually be the same. You're not the same person as that. So you might have this, you might that, might be your best friend and you love them to bits, but when you actually work in the same company, you actually might have different things and you that you'd enjoy. So it's very important to make your own decision in those kind of areas.
Holly:And you share a lot on your LinkedIn about like new graduates and on your Instagram as well, about you know new grads and understanding your values and understanding what you want to look for, and it's a very testing time at the moment for new grads, specifically coming into the end of the year looking for jobs, and I feel like you would have the best insight into companies that maybe are over promising or potentially overcompensating, trying to sort of secure people into their positions. Do you see that often and what sort of red flags can new grads look for if that's something they're worried about?
Chris:A hundred percent. I think. I always speak to new grads about this and I'm very big on it as well, because you know, as a new grad, there is literally every opportunity for you available and you know you are there in the market. The way it is as well. It is definitely every company's open people, for instance. So they're trying to get you into the door no matter what, and that's not a bad they're not. They're not intending to be bad about that like Every company has really good intentions to get you in and really support you and everything for you. But it's kind of like they all kind of copy each other in a sense, where there's a new program and everyone kind of follows that new program list, but really some companies can actually do it and some can. So that's something that you should be asking in the interview process.
Chris:Yes, a hard one isn't. I think For you guys, the best way to do it and this is probably the only way you could really understand on what companies will offer you and they're going to be correct is actually interviewing with them, literally every company and see if they're the right fit. But you haven't got. I don't think anyone has the time to like if interview goes for one hour and you have like 15 companies are interested in that's 15 hours of your time that you're going to try to figure out, and usually companies want you to, you know, to offer your contract within and make you sign it within a week or so. So, from a recruit recruiter standpoint, from my point of view, I can explain that all to you without having to go for 15 hours. I can probably give it to you in about 20 minutes until exactly what companies are doing, what they're offering, and, yeah, that's probably my.
Chris:My selling point for a new graduate is that and it's free, by the way, so everyone, if you're listening, pay me anything. You literally can just ask me about all these companies. I'm going to tell you exactly the right to going to be new program, yes or no. Some companies don't offer new grad programs and actually fantastic at supporting you know therapist, so that's a huge thing to realize that. Ask the questions of what you actually want, because the new program is very structured and tailored to everyone, when maybe a company's going to offer, you know, new program but something tailored specifically just to you. So so, yeah, I would suggest speaking to someone like myself in this situation because you know you haven't got the time to actually find out about these companies and I can help you out with that straight away.
Holly:We've spoken about this before, chris. That new grad program is just a marketing term, like it's not a thing and I've spoken about this on many other podcast episodes that my new grade, my new grade year, wasn't a new grad program and it was the best possible experience ever.
Holly:But if I was, reading that on paper, I probably wouldn't have applied because they didn't have new grad program written in the job application. So it's it's all about asking those questions and understanding what you want in a new grad program. Like, what is it you're actually looking for? And you know that company probably is offering all of those things, but they just haven't titled it a new grad program. So I love that you've touched on that as well and I love that you're doing doing the hard work for people, chris. You just you're doing the screening process and your brain just must be constantly going to do it.
Chris:On that as well. If you think about just allied health, just the healthcare in general, I think a new grad program has probably been around for maybe five years. I'd say. I would say probably, maybe less. Probably since COVID, I'd say new grad programs really been has elevated. So there wasn't a new grad program Before. But there's obviously students graduating going to work. So just think about it like every person started somewhere and they are okay now. So like you're not going to need, not going to need a new grad program to be successful in your career. You're going to be completely fine. And but look, I actually do like some of the new grad programs that are out there. It is, it is a marketing tool, but there's some companies that are fantastic. So definitely, and that's where you got to find out what you want and what the companies offering, if it's good or not.
Holly:Now this is a bit of a side left field question, chris. I didn't talk about this before, but if someone's in a role and they are thinking they want to explore options so they might get in contact with you, they might want to look at new roles. What's sort of the etiquette in that? Like what, what do people need to do if they're looking for a new job while still being employed? They might not it might not eventuate to a new position, it might just be more seeing what's out there. But is there any sort of tips you can give people that are in that process of looking for a new job? Yeah, that's a great question.
Chris:Look, I think everyone should still be exploring and see so still was out there. There's no harm, I mean in the days, your life and your career. So if there's something that's kind of restricting you at your current place, then there is a good reason to have a look at what else is out there. And, like you said, it might not actually be something, might not eventually to anything, but I was a very big believer in networking, especially in our health market. That you know, speaking to other owners or speaking to other seniors in other companies, like gone, like, for instance, gone for an interview or even if a phone call, you never know what that person might be in three years down the track. So you might actually be applying. You might say this person, this candidate's gone through, this company has a phone call, it doesn't go anywhere, but I really like each other. Three years down the track.
Chris:That senior is now an owner of a company that she's just started and all he's just started and I really remember that person from that company. That's how I've just started this thing. This might be actually perfect for you. And then they reach out to you directly and you know it's a company that you like and the company that you might be interested in as well. So I'm a big believer in actually going out there and networking with people. Now the etiquette is obviously you don't want to be telling your company that you're going to interviews because that does not look good and you can always earn a respectful way. You can always just go out there, meet people, have a chat and from there, see what happens after that. There's no need to, there's no obligation to be taken on jobs and contracts. It's an a day. To have a chat with someone is very important.
Holly:Yeah, it's always good to know what's out there and, like you said, networking is so important and just building those relationships and and building relationships outside of just your workplace. I feel like some people get quite stuck in in their only OT network, being who they work for and who they work with, and then you know push comes to shove and they need to leave and they've got not really any any greater OT connections out of that. So I think that's really really helpful advice. Now, when I started this interview off, chris, I told you that us OTS know nothing about recruitment consultants.
Holly:It's not something that we know about and I'm keen to unpack this topic with you because if you ask majority of OTS about recruitment consultants, the first thing they will think of is their LinkedIn inbox and the hundreds of messages that people receive from not just not just private recruitment but you know, recruitment consultants for workplaces for bigger companies, and it's very non personalized, very generic, very almost spam like, in a way, and I don't mean any disrespect by that, but it's just. Generally. The consensus among most people is, if you open LinkedIn, you're going to have a flood of non personalized messages in your inbox. Run me through. From a recruitment perspective. What is the purpose of messaging like that and what's your standpoint on it?
Chris:Look, this is I said to you beforehand as well. I loved I want to talk to you about this as well, so this is a good, good topic of conversation. Well, look, my point of view from that is I am more on the networking side of things, more so than like my. I think everyone's intention in the days to try and find your position right. So that's the intent of everyone, any recruiter, any business owner, anyone that's directly messaging you saying hey, like nice to speak, nice to contact you, and you know that message. That's the intent to get you another position, that they're that company that they're thinking about.
Chris:I try and do a little bit differently in terms of I like to. I like to connect with people first and I like to make sure that connections done and if someone's interactive with my post or someone's interacting, you know, with my polls or something like that, then I'll reach out and say hello. But there is also a time and place where I need to send out a few messages about positions that I do have, because I do have plenty. I mean, like I said, it's so many jobs at the moment, you know, and it's some really good jobs as well, that no one knows about. I want to get that out there to people as well. So there is a time and place for if I do try and make sure that I've connected with those, those people. I guess that's yeah. So I guess put it back on to the OT side of things, I mean because there's obviously certain ways to ask people. You know, why are you looking for work? What is the best way from your point of view on how to be approached on LinkedIn?
Holly:Get. The door just comes back to that, the relationship side of things. Like, if I like, from an LinkedIn user perspective, if I open a message from someone and you know they haven't even taken the chance to look at my profile, see the work that I'm doing, or see, you know now that I'm like I've put on my profile that I'm a business owner now and I still get messages daily like do you want to come and work here? Like no, I don't. And I get that. You don't know that and I get that. You know profiles aren't always up to date and it's you don't know unless you try.
Holly:But it's when it's the sort of generic copied and pasted message, same message and obviously you can't reinvent the wheel every time and type of brand new message. But you can really tell when it's just like this is a bulk email, understanding it to everyone, that's going to be, that's come up as an OT in this area and I don't know. It feels quite cold and I think you know from any work that I've, you know, conversations I've had with you it's always relationship based in your. Your intent is never and I'm sure there's other people like you out there the intent is not an outcome straight away. The intent is relationship, and that's what OTs are based off with our work. That is what we push for, and when it comes across quite cold and quite generic, you almost don't really want to engage with it. But there's also so many only 70 hours in a day and I know that you can't you know, be best buds with everyone before you sort of offer them your solution.
Holly:But it's sort of like that catch 22 of how much relationship is it and how much is it. I've just got this information that I want to give you and if you're either going to engage with it or you're not going to engage with it. But it's sort of it's tricky.
Chris:It's very tricky. I think like even some of my best conversations with people on LinkedIn have been like one does one guy who had this amazing mustache and I was like, oh my God, like I was like mate, how did you grow that? How long did it take?
Chris:And like it was more of a conversation about his stash for about, you know, for the first like thing. And then I just said to him like how's work going? And then that's how the conversation grew. But like, not every conversation can happen like that as well, because there are also and this is where it comes down to people. Everyone's very different and what they, what they want to do and what they like. So some people want it like I put out a poll once and it said I just said how would you like to be approached? And basically said just send me the job, what the job is, how much is getting paid, where it is, and that's it. They don't want to know. And then sometimes that works. Sometimes you just send that message out to people and they go yeah, I'm interested, where is it Like, who was it? And then we have those conversations.
Chris:So it's very hard to, I guess, because I think I got about 5000 connections and most of them are like help professionals. So it's very hard to go. I want to send this person this and I'm gonna send this person that. It's a very it's a very hard way to do it. But, like I said, for me personally I don't want to just send in mails. I like to speak to, I like to connect with people. Hopefully they interact with my posts and then I can create that kind of warm connection. But it's a tough one, isn't it?
Holly:It's a real hard.
Chris:I think it's hard because LinkedIn is a social media platform for professionals and really, when the market there's a candidate short market, like I said, there's so many jobs on offer, the only way you can really kind of contact people on a professional way it's like, instead of me reaching out to people on Facebook, like your Instagram, you know, linkedin is probably more appropriate than that. So, yeah, it's a hard one. It's something that everyone's trying to juggle, I guess.
Holly:Absolutely, absolutely, and I guess I've not been in the position of needing to heavily recruit that when you say it like that, of course you can't get your information to everyone in a personalized way, and you can't get to no 5000 people to get them, you know, to give them the information that you need to get across as well, and it's so tricky. I think, like with LinkedIn specifically, no one's taught how to use LinkedIn either, like no one's taught like what's LinkedIn etiquette what are we?
Holly:what are we using this for? And everyone is using it so differently, and I guess, if I was coming from.
Holly:As I was just looking for a job, then, yes, you're probably right, I would probably just want all the details of the job. But I guess there's people that are using LinkedIn for connection and for their own personal brand and that side of things, and it's like, oh, you haven't taken the time to see what I'm doing. But then, like check my privilege, like who's got the time to get to know me personally? Like it's so tricky, isn't it? Like it's trying to. I don't know. Yeah, I don't know.
Chris:I think I don't think we're going to ever get to the point where it's going to be perfect for everyone. I think there are going to be people who want a warmer connection and that's where I think like and I think this is where the recruitment side things I mean there's other recruiters out there as well, but I think my service is tailored for certain people right. There's other people that do recruitment and they're doing it, like more differently and that's completely fine. There's no right or wrong in a sense. But you know they're going to get, they're going to trap candidates in different companies as well, to them as well. So that's, I think it's just kind of like human nature, isn't it? This slide you're not going to be able to please everyone. You're not going to be able to make everyone happy.
Chris:I think my side of things I just hope people see my posts and they like what I post, and if they are interested to have a chat, they know that. That's there. And I think one of my biggest things, one thing I definitely try and make sure that is understandable in my area is that it doesn't have you don't have to take a job with me Like. You don't have to. My connections are quite pure in terms of like. I'm more than happy to see you succeed and you're like.
Chris:I speak to the candidates who are so happy at their companies that they work out, and that's great to hear, even though I would love to place them in a job that I think this is going to be better for them. They are still saying to me that they're coming in, they love it so much, and that's good to know, because that's great feedback, because I would like to work with those companies that people are working there. I generally like that candidate. I think they're going to be. They'd like their comfort that they're working at. Well, let me work with that company then, because I know that's going to be a pretty good team for other future candidates that I speak to, so there's things like that as well. So that's what I try and do personally.
Holly:Do it well. Like we spoke months ago about recruitment prospects, and just from a person that was chatting with you from that perspective is you're very good at. You know, you're not pushy, you're not. I guess we're plug and you. Now, chris, this is your, your time to go and talk to me, absolutely, but you I feel like you're in the market that you need to be in.
Holly:Like I can't imagine you selling what was it? Pumps, hydraulic pumps, what is it Like? This is the area for you and you do that well. So, yeah, it is interesting hearing your perspective of the LinkedIn and I, you know it's honestly shaped my perspective a little bit more and not be so annoyed by them every time I get a message. But I guess it's like that shopping center Like I don't.
Holly:I don't like to ignore people and leave them on red, just like I don't like to walk past those people in a shopping center, but you've changed my perspective a little bit on it, but I think, in saying that as well, there are lots of people that are overdoing it and not I don't think everyone has the same perspective that you have, but it is interesting to hear different sides of it.
Chris:Yeah, exactly.
Holly:Beautiful. Now, chris, I put up a question box on my Instagram story a few days ago asking people for questions, to ask you to see what people want to know about working with a recruitment consultant. And the most popular question and it's a thing that no one really talks about but it's who pays for a recruitment consultant? So I know you mentioned that your services are free for people looking for jobs, but how do you earn money? How does that work?
Chris:Yeah, it's a great question. It's free for all the candidates, so anyone who's looking for a job, it's all free. I get paid from the companies that are looking for people to work at their company, so I have agreements with all different companies in different ways about payment with them, so that's how that works.
Holly:Beautiful. So if you're wanting to explore job options, you don't have to pay you no in fact, if we catch up, it's my shout for a coffee.
Chris:I literally don't have to do anything. I think one of the biggest benefits on that is the time that you'll have. So if you're working a job already, you're working 40 hours a week and you've got report writing and you've got things like that, and on the week and you're not going to be wanting to apply for a job. So the benefit that I can provide you with is the time. We have a chat. I find out exactly what you'd be interested in and I do all the work for you. I'll find out who the best companies are, interview process I help you out with that. I help you out with the negotiation of salary to get you the best salary and, yeah, I help you out with the contractors when the contract comes. I can explain that to you as well, and that's pretty much what I do. You don't have to do anything except tell me what you want to do for a job and I will be able to provide that for you.
Holly:Time is so important, isn't it Like we're all?
Holly:living busy lives and yeah, that's going to take a lot of stress out for a lot of people, I would imagine. And another frequently asked question that came through in a variety of different forms, and I think I know the answer to this and I'm sure it's a very tough market for you at the moment. But a few people asked what's the success rate and is there a guaranteed success rate of a business sort of engaging your services? And I'm sure it's probably not, because it's such a hard market at the moment. But what do you sort of say to those businesses that are towing and throwing, whether they are going to engage your services or any recruitment software services?
Chris:Yeah, it's a great question, isn't it? I think, after doing sales with, like you know, products, for instance, the humans are the most volatile products, if you can imagine. So if I'm selling something from A and it goes from A to B, the products are going to change its mind halfway from A to B, as humans are, people will like actually, this is my thinking a bit different now. Things change, etc. Etc. So there's definitely a kind of guarantee that this person is going to be the perfect fit for you and they're going to be the best, the greatest candidate. All I can do is basically go through the process like a company would, and figure out exactly who the best people are for them and, like I found, for an example, I found an OT, a job recently, or maybe it was about a year ago now found out a job. It was fantastic, it was a great fit. Company loved her, she loved the company. Within like six weeks, her husband found a job out in Queensland. So she had to really like hey, and she's on the phone, she's crying to me about it and she's like devastated. And I said, like you can't, this is not, this is not your problem, and I had to obviously do with the guarantee. I do guarantee periods for my company. So if a candidate leaves within a certain amount of time, I'll try and find the company a free replacement. So that's always in place as well. But, and if they go over that guarantee period, sometimes I can have a conversation, negotiate that as well, because obviously certain things happen.
Chris:But something like that perfect fit, perfect company, perfect candidate, like you know, just worked out beautifully and life took over. So you, I think I have really good relations with all the companies I work with and I'm very I'm not a transactional recruiter, I'm very like hey, look, you know this is a situation, it is what it is. We'll do the best to find you someone else. You know just as good. So promise you I can find you someone in a day is unlikely because the way the market is. But I'll do everything I can and you know, put you forward to candidates. But it is what it is and, yeah, I'm just very, I'm very, um, a lot of relationship driven right. So I'm all like no, look, that happens, let's just try and find you someone else. And I'm not going to be angry at the person, I'm not going to be angry at the company. Hopefully doesn't get angry at me about it as well, because it's not out.
Holly:This is not my choice as well, so there's so many different factors that contribute to all of that, and there's things that are out of everyone's control, so I love hearing that. Another question that came through a couple of times as well was and you've summed it up pretty well in the podcast already but what do you think the main benefit is for you know, if someone's looking for jobs for using a recruitment consultant versus searching for themselves? You've covered it well, but is there sort of a way you can sum it up?
Chris:The knowledge of the right. Now I think I was always trying to think about if it wasn't a candidate for short market. So, just for example, if there was only one job on the market and there's like a thousand people applying for the role, using a recruiter in that situation is a completely different situation. So in that example, I'd be able to tell you, I'd be able to speak to the company on your behalf and say this person is fantastic. You should definitely organize an interview. And then, when you go through an interview, if they don't go through you because they've got over 999 people, I can give you the exact feedback on why you weren't successful. So you're actually getting a service where you know what's going on with your own interview process. Same way with whether being the way the market is now in terms of jobs.
Chris:But, like I said, the time side of things you don't have to worry about. You don't have to worry about all the amount of time to go for interviews. I can basically tell the right companies for you and if they're not the right companies for you, you'll know straight away the first interview. Like Chris, what is this Like? Why did you inform me here? Never happens, but if it does happen, then I'll be like, well, let's change it up then and let's see the company instead. So it's time it's negotiation of the salary. You know, I'm here to help you out to get the best deal and, yeah, I think it's free. Like I said, you're using the service where you're speaking to someone in a market that knows everything about it and finding out the insight that you need to know.
Holly:For free, Absolutely yeah, and I think the biggest takeaway I'm having is the time because you don't realize how much time is in job hunting and networking and building those connections and to have someone that's got that sort of market knowledge is going to be really, really helpful for people.
Chris:I also think for new graduates as well the contract side of things, because when you read a contract it's very hard to understand what it means. So I've gone through some. I actually sometimes try to catch up with the new grads for a coffee and read the contract in person so they can go you know, basically spelling it out for them what it actually is. It's so valuable for them because then you know in three years down the track they can probably just apply for their own job and you know if they wanted to, and then they can see the contract and remember how it actually looks and what it's structured as. So that's important too.
Holly:For a lot of new grads it potentially is their first full-time contracted position and you don't know what you don't know and you don't learn about the contracts that you need. That's for sure. But I think it's very helpful to have that insider knowledge on how to navigate those, those paperwork and all that stuff that comes with signing up for a job. Like there's so much more to it, isn't there?
Chris:Yeah, 100%. And like sometimes with people who go oh I don't have a bit of a silly question about the contract. There's no silly question when you sign something. There's no silly question, especially when you're signing something for your career and for your job that you're starting at. You don't want to be signing something that you think that is going to detriment you down the line, so it's always good to have a chat about that too.
Holly:Absolutely. And on that new grad front, if you could give any advice to new grads at the moment on that job hunt, what would sort of be your main advice?
Chris:I have so many advice. I would probably say that, and it's probably the best advice I could probably give a new grad is that you're not going to make a bad decision. I've worked 20 jobs, like I said, like I'm still okay now. Those 19 jobs are perfectly fine for me. I learned so much you can leave that job If it's not going to be. Don't stress about that being the most perfect job in the world. I believe that. Go to the job, enjoy the job and it's not going to be the end of the world if it doesn't work out for you. Just enjoy that process, because it's a wonderful time for new grads. You can study for so long. You've got to start your new job. Just enjoy it.
Holly:It is a fun time, and it's such a fun time outside of life as well, Outside of life, outside of OT sorry for new grads. So much is happening in their life. People might be moving. You're finishing uni. It's okay to enjoy it and it's okay to not feel stressed about the process. I think that's good advice. I love that.
Chris:Yeah, 100%.
Holly:Now Rebel Recruitment. You started your own business.
Chris:I did.
Holly:Congratulations. Absolutely incredible. You're doing wonderful things. Did you always know you were going to start your own business or did something lead you to being like no, I want to do this myself.
Chris:I think I've always wanted to do my own thing. I never knew it was going to be in recruitment. As I was doing recruitment, I stumbled into the path of maybe I can actually do this on my own. Yeah, it was a really weird time because I was working in a company and I was really happy with it. I think I bumped into about three people within a week Talk about stars, like just giving you a sign. It just happened. They all said to me I'm running my own recruitment business. How are you doing in your company? I'm like, yeah, doing pretty good. They said why don't you just start on your own? I said park that. Then the next one. I was like oh okay, that's interesting, that's the second person in a week. Then the third person was like you need to give this a crack. I'm like maybe I do. Maybe this is actually a thing. Then I decided to all right, let's give this a shot. Obviously, my wife was pregnant as well.
Holly:Right time to.
Chris:Yeah, why not Just stop working on the salary job and just get no income? No, it was actually probably the best thing to do, because I think it gave me the opportunity to. I think when you're working as a business and you have your own brand and you have your own word, you can really speak from the heart and actually speak on how you want things. It also allows me I'm not speaking from all agencies, but a lot of agencies give you certain amount of companies to work with and you have to work with them.
Chris:My situation is quite different now. I'm working with the companies I feel like are the best companies because I want to work with them and I'm trying to say, hey, look, I can get your people. Then I know I can get them people because they are the best companies. Other agencies have very strict relationships with other companies. I think for me, it was just the benefit of having those relationships, like the companies I work with and the candidates, and just being able to make it work. It was just always probably the best thing for me, to be honest. Also, having the baby as well, having a little kid it's been given so much freedom as well to be able to hang out with him as well and be around him growing up, which is awesome.
Holly:Amazing. That sounds wonderful. That flexibility is so important, isn't it Especially? When you're looking for a job, but that sounds wonderful. If someone's listening to this, Chris, and they want to learn more about what you're doing at Rebel, if they want to connect with you, if they just want to learn more about recruitment in general, how can they get in contact with you?
Chris:Yeah, probably go on the LinkedIn page it's probably the best, chris Antarctica's or you can even search Rebel Recruitment. All my details will be there. I'm more than happy to have a chat with anyone who just wants to know what's going on in the market or just wants to have a confidential chat. I do recruitment across Western Australia, but I do Rebel Recruitment is branching out next year across Australia. We'll be getting more companies and more candidates for those locations. If you are overreached as well, more than happy to have a conversation with you and discuss some positions for you as well. How exciting. Going global, going national, not global yes, far out Global will be pretty tough. You never know.
Holly:That'll be fun. Thank you so much, Chris, for coming on. It's been wonderful to hear the other side of things and hear the recruitment perspective. It's such a testing time for jobs at the moment and I love learning more about the process. Thank you very much for coming on. Any final words of wisdom to wrap this up? I'm happy to leave it there.
Chris:No, honestly, I probably don't. Think I would say is like you put me on the spot here, holly. Probably my words of wisdom would be just enjoy what you're doing and also, if you're not enjoying what you're doing, there are other opportunities for you. I think that's one thing that's probably really good to know. I've seen so many candidates, so many therapists, who are like oh, I'm doing this and it's because of the NDIS. Oh, I'm doing this because of this. It's not the case. You're probably just not in the right environment for it and there are other opportunities there for you. That's probably my advice If you're happy, then it's fantastic, and if you're not happy, there's probably other opportunities there for you. So go out there and see what's available for you.
Holly:Love that. That's very good advice to wrap it up. Thank you so much, Chris. I appreciate your time.
Chris:No, thank you so much. Thanks for having me.
Holly:Another huge thanks to Chris for coming on. I think, like I said at the start, it's so valuable to hear all these different perspectives and learn about our job hunt and our roles and our worth as OTs from so many different people. So thank you, thank you. Thank you to Chris for coming on. I can highly highly recommend his services and he's just an absolute legend. So reach out if you have any questions at all about your job hunt.
Holly:Now, before we wrap this episode up, let's do my fun fact, which has nothing to do with OT. This one's a funny one. Don't know if it's true. Well, actually, no, I do know it's true, I don't know if it's true. Anyway, flamingos can only eat with their heads upside down. So it's something to do with their tongue, like pumping the food with water, and then it's sort of like gravity like takes it down their neck because their necks are so long. I just think that's fun. I'm just trying to like like tip my head upside down and see how that works. But fun fact flamingos head upside down to eat. What cool animals.
Holly:Thank you for tuning in to another episode of Holy Theo Tea. If you are interested in mentoring, send me a message. Let's have a chat, no strings attached. We'll jump on zoom, we'll learn a little bit more about each other and just have a fun time while doing it. It's all about mentoring should be fun, life should be fun. This is getting very motivational. Someone stopped me talking. Goodbye, guys, I'll talk to you next week. Have a lovely week.