This weeks ep is with the wonderful Kim Howard from Creativity and Beyond OT. Kim shared with me her incredible journey to where she is now as a successful business woman. Kim's journey to being an OT was not exactly linear, and involved a lot of personal triumph, perseverance and passion for helping those around her.
Kim open's up on her own struggles with mental health and how that has shaped her into the incredible clinician she is today.
Note/Trigger warning: We chat about emotional neglect and the impact this has had on Kim's journey. If this might be tricky for you to listen to for whatever reason, please switch off around 37 minutes.
Important links:
Kim's socials:
https://www.instagram.com/creativityandbeyondot/
Kim's Website:
https://www.creativityandbeyondot.com/
Reshma Sujani - bicycle face (imposter syndrome) https://youtu.be/zMRcWj_GKxY?si=2kLduMVjBOeU6J8E
This weeks ep is with the wonderful Kim Howard from Creativity and Beyond OT. Kim shared with me her incredible journey to where she is now as a successful business woman. Kim's journey to being an OT was not exactly linear, and involved a lot of personal triumph, perseverance and passion for helping those around her.
Kim open's up on her own struggles with mental health and how that has shaped her into the incredible clinician she is today.
Note/Trigger warning: We chat about emotional neglect and the impact this has had on Kim's journey. If this might be tricky for you to listen to for whatever reason, please switch off around 37 minutes.
Important links:
Kim's socials:
https://www.instagram.com/creativityandbeyondot/
Kim's Website:
https://www.creativityandbeyondot.com/
Reshma Sujani - bicycle face (imposter syndrome) https://youtu.be/zMRcWj_GKxY?si=2kLduMVjBOeU6J8E
G'day guys and welcome to Holly the OT podcast. My name is Holly and I am an occupational therapist looking to create a judgement free zone for all OT students, new grads and early year therapists. Join me as I give my honest opinions on the highs and the lows and the ends and the outs of being an OT. Before I start today's episode, I'd like to acknowledge the Wujak Nongar people who are the traditional custodians of the land. This episode was recorded G'day guys, and welcome back to another episode of Holly the OT podcast. Thank you so very much for being here. Welcome to any new listeners. Hello again to any old listeners and to anyone who was just randomly stumbled across this podcast and has nothing or any interest in OT at all, welcome. Thanks so much for giving us a red hot crack.
Speaker 1:Today's episode is wonderful. It is with the wonderful Kim Howard from creativity and beyond OT. We have a very raw and vulnerable chat about Kim's incredible journey to where she is now, the triumph she's made along the way and, I guess, just her overall journey. And yeah, I just I really, really valued this chat and I think there's going to be a lot that a lot of people can get out of this New grads, sole traders, business owners, neurodivergent folk anyone will get something out of this episode, but before we start the episode, I do just want to put a little disclaimer. We do speak about some pretty vulnerable stuff about midway through the app. We speak a little bit about emotional trauma and the impact that has. So if that is something that might be tricky for you to listen to, this is your warning now, and I hope that this doesn't bring up anything for you. But thank you for tuning in and thank you for being here. I really do appreciate it.
Speaker 1:Before we get into the episode, though, let's do my highs and lows for the week as we like to do. My high is the daily itineraries sold out. I cannot believe it Anyone who is new. I made a planner, a pretty planner, I would say. Put it up for sale, and it's sold out in two days, and I'm just absolutely gobsmacked about the support that you guys have shown me and the love for my little planner. So this week I posted them out. I was doing all the little like small business things with my thank you cards and my stickers, and it was just very, very fun. Which leads me to my low for the week is.
Speaker 1:I ordered a backup order because I knew there's a lot of interest, so I was like, yep, I'll order some more, like I think that I'll sell them eventually. Blah, blah, blah. Anyway, that order arrived and I now have 200 planners that are very, very damaged. They had like an inks bill down the side of them. The actual planner themselves fully fine, like fully functional, but they just look cheap and gross and tacky and the company are reprinting them. Like you know, that's from a business perspective. It's not the end of the world, but I don't like waste and I don't know what to do with these planners. I think I will just sell them like really, really discounted, but I don't feel bad for people that have just bought a full price one. Oh, I don't know. Anyway, if anyone's got any ideas of what I can do with the planners, please let me know. But there will be a restock soon, once the perfect planners arrive, but I am going on leave, so it might be a couple of weeks.
Speaker 1:Anyway, follow me on the socials and you will see when they are available. Enough about me, let's get into the chat with Kim. Like I said, an absolute cracker, and I really really hope you enjoy it. Today's podcast guest is the wonderful Kim Howard from Creativity and Beyond OT. Kim is a neuro-affirming therapist who works in the pediatric space as well as providing parent coaching and therapist supervision. I'm so excited to learn more about Kim's journey and all of the wonderful things she's doing in the OT space. Welcome to the whole of the OT pod, kim.
Speaker 2:Thank you, pleasure to be here, pleasure to be on the pod.
Speaker 1:Very excited, amazing, amazing, kim. I start all of my episodes the same way and that's for the fun little game of two truths and a lie. I always say I'm good, but I'm really not. So you're probably going to stunt me out, but we'll give it a red hot crack anyway. What have you got for me?
Speaker 2:I feel like you probably are pretty good, but I've tried. Okay, I've tried because I heard that Dave stuffed his up, so I am learning to surf. I run a business where I sell plants and gifts and I have played in a band at a music festival.
Speaker 1:Okay, these are good ones. I feel like I did a stalk of your Instagram and you are musically inclined, so I'm going to say that that one is true. I believe you live in Melbourne, but I think you're moving to Queensland, so you might be learning to surf to get ready for there, but I feel like what you're moving to is like potentially croc territory. I'm going to say the first one is a lie. You're not learning to surf and you sell gifts and plants.
Speaker 2:Yes, very good, I knew you, but you know what. It's a segue, because I don't really ever want to learn to surf, to be honest, but I can, only on a skateboard. So there you go.
Speaker 1:Hey, that's pretty good. Not many people can say they can do that.
Speaker 2:That is very impressive, that's about as far as it gets. I'm a one trick pony.
Speaker 1:Still more tricks than most.
Speaker 2:I have like a little side hustle called Kimiko and I have a plant obsession. So I was like, oh, maybe I could just sell plants. So I've got a little business, but it's probably going to go on the side for a bit whilst we move. And then I've only been playing bass for a few years now, but like one week, the first time I ever performed live and then my music teacher was like, okay, cool, do you want to play at Mochella, which was like this fundraising festival next week?
Speaker 2:And I was like, ah, okay, sure it was pretty cool, small festival, but still a festival, so yeah.
Speaker 1:Again, more festivals than the average person has played at, so I'm very impressed. I want to know more about. Did you say Kimiko, is that the? Do you propagate the plants or do you like? How do you, how do you do the plants out of the? I'm very into plants as well, oh, okay.
Speaker 2:So a lot of them I've just like, yeah, propagated some, but mostly like it's mostly like succulents. So it's kind of cheating, because it's pretty easy to propagate a succulent, in my opinion. And I also make like those moss balls that are called Koki Dammers and stuff. And I sort of probably really kicked off during COVID, where everyone was home, because I was in Melbourne at the time or just outside of Melbourne, so it's pretty bad, and we had I had a lot of plants already, but then I ran out of space because we were living in a tiny house. So then I started making those plant hangers with McCrame and so then I was like, yep, this is it, this is McCrame plants and plant hangers.
Speaker 1:I love it. I love it, I will. If you send me the link afterwards, I'll put it in the show notes and I'm going to go have a bit of a peruse, because you can never have too many gift or plant hangers. I mean, I've got about. I'm looking about five empty plant hangers at the moment, so I need more plants. But yeah, send it through and I'll.
Speaker 2:Well, if you need plants, I'm moving, so I've got too many plants.
Speaker 1:Plant sale is always the way to go. I love when you find someone that's doing a plant sale. It's very, very exciting. One person's loss is another person's treasure. Is that the same? I don't know. Something like that, yeah, something like that. I feel like you've given me a pretty good insight into life outside of OT. Kim, you've got your side hustle, your you know playing bass. Is there anything else that you do outside of being an OT?
Speaker 2:Oh, I'm definitely a bit of a homebody really. But, having said that, I live in a like a tiny little granny flat with my partner at the moment whilst we have been saving, and I've got three cats, which is pretty hectic, and I just really love gardening, so I've just been like helping out in Mum's Mum and Dad's garden, which is good, and at the moment, like I'm not in a band or eating, so I'm just like playing music and learning songs I really like. So that's what life is like for me outside of work.
Speaker 1:It's great, amazing, and you're moving to Queensland soon. That's a big move. It's a long way to go, but very exciting by the sounds of things.
Speaker 2:Yeah, yeah, from like Southeast Gippsland so all the way up to almost far North Queensland. So it's a pretty big move.
Speaker 1:Very exciting. You have to share how it goes over. On the gram. You have a very good gram, which we'll talk about a little bit later. You share lots of wonderful, wonderful things about being an OT. How did you get to being an OT? When did you think, yep, this is the career I want to pursue. I want to go to uni, I want to study, so I always wanted to be a nurse.
Speaker 2:It was, it was just something, I think in high school, and both my sisters are nurses now and my mum is a nurse she's retired now and my Nana was a nurse, so it's strong in the family. And I thought, you know, I don't really want to um white people or or or give needles, um, and so I was like maybe there's something else. And the mum goes, oh, you've got a cousin who's an OT, so you know. Then just caught up with her and she told me about it. I was like, well, that sounds better than nursing. I mean, sign me up, um, and I I got lucky in that um. There are a few OT courses in the area at the time and, being from a rural area, you sort of get bumped up a little bit in your score when you apply for things. So I felt a little bit lucky in that sense of I got into Latrobe, um, in 2012. So that was good and kind of just went from there and then never really wanted to change after that. So that was good.
Speaker 1:Amazing. It's always good when you, when you make the right decision. You don't have to have a mid mid degree change Not that there's anything wrong with doing that but it does help that that doesn't happen, I think.
Speaker 2:Yeah, I mean you probably experienced at uni most people were in OT to like transfer into physio or whatever. We certainly had a lot of those ones, but um, I think once they started they realized it was OT was the bomb.
Speaker 1:We love OT. I feel like we're both big advocates for OT, love OT, yeah yeah. What was uni like for you? How did you go?
Speaker 2:It was a long time At such a blur. So I didn't. I got in straight out of high school so I was pretty young and, um, you know, just never really stopped and part of me just felt like I'm going to forget how to study if I don't stop, If I, if I do stop, sorry. So I almost failed anatomy in whatever year it was second year or something, Um, and then I was like, oh crap, because I had a, I had a scholarship. So I was like I cannot, I cannot fail, I cannot fail. So I just it was the only time I really got my button to give, but I was very much a last minute I have no idea what's going on kind of person, and I think I was just floating. I just floated the whole way through, which I think for me like, um, you know, I knew that I wasn't silly in like being able to do an assignment and write an essay, so I kind of just fumbled my way through.
Speaker 1:What sort of scholarship were you on?
Speaker 2:Um. So at the end of first year they started giving advertisements about undergrad scholarships to support study, um, so I got, I took me a lot of applications and a lot of documents, but I applied for the Sarah undergrad scholarship, which is I don't know if they still award them now um, but it was the NAH triple S scholarship. So basically what they? It's about rural health, um, and encouraging people to work in rural health. So I was eligible because my parents were low income earners and we I had to move over 150 kilometers to study an allied health profession.
Speaker 2:So the local uni didn't have OT, they literally only had nursing, which is kind of why that was it felt like my only option when I was in high school. But, um, so because we moved, um, obviously I had to live on res. So then, yeah, just through a lot of rigorous, getting so many documents certified, um, I won it and I felt like I'd won the lotto. I was like, oh my God, mom, mom, come look at one of scholarship. And we were so excited and it was just, yeah, it was really, really fun and it helped pay for, like uni textbooks and, um, like my res, like living on res, accommodation and stuff mostly as well.
Speaker 1:Amazing and that just want to take in just that little extra pinch of obviously moving away from home and being young as well and having that little bit of financial support I imagine would have made a big difference.
Speaker 2:Yeah, it was. Um, I reckon it was third year. So because my degree went over four years, I didn't have to work other than like a part-time admin job. So it was like game changer, not having to work and worry about that. I was just getting an income from FEP to November every year for the rest of my studies.
Speaker 1:Amazing. Yeah, that's so good. Do you know what Sarah stands for? I'm trying to think. When you said that, I was like what is this? Good question, something, australia, I like, held something or other.
Speaker 2:Services for Australian and rural and remote allied health. I should know that.
Speaker 1:Oops, sorry, I put you on the spot. I put you on the spot, but, sarah, I've seen a few things that Sarah have done. I was a part of a conference with them for oh God, I forget who it was with showing my brain fog today as well, but they do some really really great things and, yeah, I'm not sure what scholarships they're currently offering, but any students who are listening and who may have a desire for rural health or want to explore that option, definitely go and check Sarah out and also check out the government not the government the state funding rural services for your state. I had a scholarship in from the Rural Doctors Network in New South Wales. It was only for about $2,000, but it was really helpful on one of my rural placements. So, yeah, awesome to hear that there's other options out there and they're encouraging people in rural areas to extend their studies and, yeah, it sounds like it was a good experience for you.
Speaker 2:Yeah, I think it was what I already like, growing from a small town anyway, like I just it was already my jam and what I wanted to do. So, yeah, I was very, very lucky and. But they also have like clinical placement scholarships. They actually get paid when you're on placement, which is a game changer. I felt like I would have been double dipping.
Speaker 1:But if it's there, take it. But I'm of the belief that, like if you, as soon as people go out and experience rural health, doing a rural placement and an incentive like that will encourage people to do that and I feel like once they're out there, they love it and they want to go back and work really when they graduate. So the more things like that the people know about, the better. Yeah, that's right. And run me through what placements were like for you? What sort of placements did you do? Did that sort of shape how you were going to go into your new grad role?
Speaker 2:Well, yeah, and I don't know if your experience was the same, but for me it was. It was pretty much a lucky day, like you get what you get and you don't complain, basically. But I think, given that OT is so diverse, it's such a gamble in what you end up in unless you really know. So you know, some people requested specific placements or had specific places they wanted to go, but they do try to give you a bit of a variety. In my case, my first placement, which I felt so lucky to be able to do, was like a youth mental health center in Melbourne for origin youth health. So there's definitely been some good speeches from the director, pat McGurray, and he's like a psychologist I want to say. Anyway, absolute legend to listen to speak and I was in like the early psychosis clinic there, so it's full on. But it was great. It was really interesting learning about.
Speaker 2:I guess it's like the complex mental health issues that come with people with, like why they end up where they end up and all this stuff, and it was, you know, a lot of. It was around like behavior and upbringing and stuff. Then I had just like a community placement Actually it was kind of what were they called like a transition care, so people coming out of hospital and trying to stay home and how they can keep them home. So there was a lot of equipment, prescription and like early home mod kind of things, which wasn't too bad and just more of a community base, which I just really liked the community aspect more than anything.
Speaker 2:And then the last one was an acute placement, which was terrible. I hated it. Oh no, it was absolutely awful, but I was on a like a ward where people had like cancer and stuff too, but so a lot of the people that were being admitted were like there last week and then the week before. So it was terrible, not because of that, but it was terrible because I had a terrible supervisor, but it was just. It was a whole bunch of that that happened in personal circumstance, like mom and dad were away at the time. But yeah, I hated that and never wanted to go into acute OT after that.
Speaker 1:Oh, do you think that if you had like, was it the acute side of it you thought you didn't like? Or do you think if you had a more positive supervisor experience it might have made the overall a better experience? Or you just not acute OT is not for you, cause it's sure not for me. Let me tell you.
Speaker 2:It's definitely. I don't think it would have been anyway, but I'm it might have swayed me to at least actually try any job that offered a rotation, had I not have had such a terrible experience, because there's obviously lots of rotational placements and that's where you sort of start or at least have part of it in there. But I was like I do not want anything to do with it. But it never really excited me, especially having my early placements being like youth mental health and like community placement and home mods and all that stuff and going to people's houses. I love home visits. That's so fun to be able to do and just insight that no one else ever gets. But I think it was just like you know, here's a shower chair or you know whatever, here's your, how many steps do you have in the home? And then they discharge to community and then it's community OTs problem. So it just felt like a bit of a handball to me with that kind of stuff, but it just it did not inspire me in the slightest.
Speaker 1:I feel like the youth mental health placement like that sounds so unique as one, but like creative and the OT role in that space is not something that most people would be familiar with. So I feel like you went from having a really unique experience to having, I guess, what typically would be the bread and butter standard acute experience, which might have made that yet even harder for you. But how did that inspire what sort of role you went into as a new grad? Did that sort of shift you in where you wanted to work?
Speaker 2:Well, I didn't apply for a job. So I finished at like end of November 2015. And I didn't apply for a job until like June. After that, I mean, to be fair, I did. I did apply for a couple but I was like I hope I don't get this job because but I straight up, like my sisters were recommending the OT jobs at the local hospital. I'm like, nah, I don't want to, I don't want that, I was not keen.
Speaker 2:But I was pretty. I was pretty depressed, I think, after after that well, all of uni, because it sort of it was a terrible placement experience and I think I just didn't really know what I wanted to do. But I genuinely was staying up late, sleeping in late. My only one thing I would do was go to Kmart and I was like, what are you doing today? I'm like I'm going to Kmart. Like there were signs I was not well. Yeah, I just took my time and, look, I worked as a carer throughout part of my studies, so I kind of was just getting a bit of an income from doing that, but I just felt so crap and like I never had a break. So I think it was also me just taking that time to figure out what made that placement so awful, and all that sort of stuff as well.
Speaker 1:Yeah, absolutely, and I think, like being able to identify that and knowing to have a break whether it was an intentional break or a bit of a force breaking away, but having that time, you know I I hope that that made your new great experience once you sort of got into that first job a little bit more positive by having that time off. But yeah, a bad experience on placement oh God, I can't even get my words out a bad experience on placement can do damage to people and into their confidence and just that overall situation. It sounds like there was a lot happening for you but I'm really sorry that happened. That sounds really sad. That makes me, makes my OT heart, sad for you.
Speaker 2:Yeah, look, I think it was. It was personal circumstance in that this particular OT and I've worked with OTs with this mentality which kind of by the time I'd seen it a few times like I have no time for you, but there she was sort of like had this expectation of what the uni had versus what this particular place is at, and she was literally going to UT. The uni expects your OTs to be here, whereas we expect OTs to be here, literally. So she's basically saying you're down here, you're crap, and we expect this. And the other thing that made it worse I'm getting angry about it now the other thing that made it worse was her being like you're a fourth year and this is your final placement, like get your shit together, basically. And it was terrible because it's like this is my only acute placement and you are treating me like this. How am I meant to learn? So she just had a massive chip on our shoulder and I just like I was the scapegoat, basically.
Speaker 1:It's almost like they forget what they learn at uni in that how diverse it is and how we are not just trained to be acute OTs. Like just because we're fourth years doesn't mean we know everything about acute OT and can walk in and have a full case. So, oh, I'm getting angry for you too. That's annoying.
Speaker 2:Yeah, it was terrible. It was so bad. I mean, there was personal circumstances that made it a little bit more stressful. I was living at my nanas at the time and mum and dad were doing a big trip around Australia as well. So I'm just like calling mum on the phone crying and she's like oh, I feel sorry, I just want it to be over. Terrible, it was so bad.
Speaker 1:Fast forward. So, june, you said you got your first new graduate. What sort of role did you go into?
Speaker 2:So I'd applied for a job at Headspace locally because there's a Headspace near where I was and I thought, yeah, this is what I really liked that mental health space and I didn't get it. But then they suggested, oh, you weren't successful for this position, I think just because they thought you know I was new, which is fine, probably because they couldn't support me, and they offered me like an alternative, like more of a key worker case management kind of role for kids who were at risk mental health issues. So that was a great job. But the issue was it wasn't an OT job. So I never actually had the new grad OT experience until probably 18 months out, which, as you can see, on paper that doesn't look good. The people who want to hire a new grad and they go. What have you been doing the past 18 months? And then you have to like advocate for what you've done is still meaningful, but also that you have very base level OT skills.
Speaker 2:But I learned a lot in working with a lot more.
Speaker 2:So it was a lot more of a social work kind of model type of role, a lot of youth and welfare based stuff, a lot of really complex families in the area where I grew up, which is a pretty low SCS kind of region, so I could really empathize and understand like the complexities of what was going on with these families and how that then impacts behavior.
Speaker 2:And I had no idea what I was doing. So I just did a lot of research around ADHD and stuff and I was pretty like I had a supervisor but she was a social worker and a teacher and she was from Zimbabwe, so she was just like so fun to work with. She's like always had really cool different like weaves in her hair, but she was really helpful around that emotional stuff. But in obviously regards to OT and assessment and stuff, I wasn't getting any of that so I kind of had no idea. But I just started doing research around like ADHD and trauma look very similar in the brain, in behavior, and that was kind of where it initially sparked some of that interest around challenging behaviors, especially because I worked with some pretty kids with some pretty complex issues and you know I'm like 21 doing this job.
Speaker 1:It was it was extreme but I learned a lot and I'm really grateful for that I imagine there'd be so much value in that role, in like working as an OT, though, like there is so much incidental mental health and case management in that those complex families that we work with that we really don't get the exposure to until we're in the thick of it. I imagine there'd be a lot of that crossover into what you're doing now. When did you make the shift? When did you think, ok, I'm ready for like a clinical OT role?
Speaker 2:So there was like a lot of personal stuff going on, in that someone very close to me was very mentally unwell and they were at the point where they couldn't work at all and I was so stressed out and I was working with mentally unwell kids was like I can't really do both. You're either one or the other. You've got to have your work life together or you've got to have your home life preferably your home life together. So that wasn't really going well. Plus, I thought like what the hell am I doing? I need to reassess the situation. So I quit and I didn't work for about six not six months, quite six months but I just took a break, a really big break and took some big life changes and was learning a lot more about my own anxiety at that time. So being in your mid 20s, discovering that was a big journey, and also being a qualified OT but also on the doll for a period of time was a little bit embarrassing. But I wouldn't change it for the world because it gave me so much perspective on like life outside of work and doing what I enjoy and we would just hang out and we go to the beach all the time and it was great, it was what we needed at the time.
Speaker 2:And then I saw, I think, an OT job, a plot advertised at another OT company Like an organization that did NDIS, so it was only just starting to roll out at the time and I think I remember I applied, you know, they gave me an interview and I remember crying in the interview because I was so embarrassed at the journey that I had and I was like I'm so sorry, I feel like I shouldn't be here, and it was like I thought I totally stuff that interview after that analysis, like in tears going, oh, I'm really sorry and I don't have the experience that you like want me to have. You know, hiring like an early OT or whatever, and they were really like understanding and one person was on zoom, so it was pretty awkward for them, I think, because I'm there crying. And then they gave me the job, they hired me, and I was like, oh my god, like this is crazy. So, yeah, obviously they help support me with a lot of that actual OT related stuff and assessment, because I already kind of had like the legwork of working with families and building rapport. Absolutely I had that down, but I didn't have anything else.
Speaker 2:I was very upside down and really hard and but the annoying thing about that I was in that job for six months and then I got offered because I was sort of was trying to figure out what I wanted to do at the time. I got offered to do hand therapy and private practice and I was like I'm still early, they understood when I quit the other job, but I was like this is an opportunity I don't want to miss. And so, yeah, I left and did hand therapy for a couple of years until COVID and then I quit there. But I learned so much. So it's been a bit of a really wishy washy journey since that time, but that's kind of like my new grad journey.
Speaker 1:But it all sounds like it's played into each other so nicely Like I know you say that you were in this interview saying you didn't have the clinical experience, but it sounds like all the experience you had leading up to that is probably what was more important. I know you support new grads as well and do clinical supervision and I always say to my new grads like the clinical skills will come, but if you have the ability to work with a family, relate to a family and be approachable which it sounds like you would have had to be in your headspace role like the clinical stuff would come. So they obviously saw some great signs in you, which is awesome. But, yeah, a very not traditional journey, I guess you could say to where you are now.
Speaker 2:Extremely yeah, yeah. And I think the helpful thing about that was obviously I was applying for a lot of different jobs and my friend at the time was, like just completely be yourself, yeah, and I think I sort of really had a stab in the dark at trying to apply for a job that was like this researcher role with Melbourne Uni or something and like it was. It wasn't that I was under qualified, but I wasn't as qualified as I could have been for that job, but I applied anyway and I just I was like I'm so grateful to be here and I was just myself and they called me and said if it weren't for your lack of experience, it would have hired you in an instant.
Speaker 1:I was like thank you so much, that's a compliment. Yeah, yeah.
Speaker 2:Oh, amazing. So I was like no, whatever, I'm just going to go with me and just going to rock up and be me, and that helped a lot on going after that, absolutely.
Speaker 1:And fast forward. Now and you are self employed, you work for yourself as an occupational therapist. How did you get from hand therapy to now what I presume is predominantly pediatrics, just from what I, like I've seen on Instagram like how did you come from hand therapist to a self employed pediatric OT? Again, we're on this rollercoaster. It's up and down.
Speaker 2:It definitely has been a rollercoaster, so, but the funny thing overchains so many people's lives, yeah, and when I was working in hand therapy I was still an essential worker, so that never stopped and I was working and work and so busy and I was in a clinic where I was kind of the main person at this particular clinic and private practice obviously is a bit different to like hospital hand therapy, because you know there's a business, a big business sense in it as well. But it got so extreme. I had an unbelievable amount of annual leave that I didn't hadn't taken and there's, you know, I don't think I felt like I could take it and but also like they wouldn't, even this particular place wouldn't even let me get like Christmas off to go visit with my partners, family and Queen. Then it was all this stuff like that. I just thought that's not not about that.
Speaker 2:And and it was all these people were like changing their careers and stuff. And during COVID times and I think I remember I was at one of the other clinics and the power went out and you can't. You can't write. You know, it's the. I was in a room that had no window so I had to have a light. I had no light in this room and I called my boss, my manager, and I was like, well, the power's gone out, what, like? What do you want me to do? This was like probably like March 2020, so it was pretty peak COVID time, maybe a bit later Anyway, and they just go oh telly, health, are you kidding me?
Speaker 2:Like there's no internet. And then, so soon as the power came back on, I'm like looking for other jobs and stuff there. And then I think I had the conversation, because it was just more like it was only hand therapy, and I had the conversation with him going. I don't want to be a hand therapist, I want to still be an OT and I'm not that anymore. And I was always the one that kind of like connected better with the kids, especially when you have to cut off a plaster, like you've got to get these people like switched on and not crying and not having a panic attack when you're about to cut off a big giant plaster and make them a splint, which was a very cool part of the job by the way that sounds fun.
Speaker 2:Yeah, it was stinky but good. But yeah, that was like oh, you know, you're so great with kids, blah, blah, blah, blah. I know I am. I've worked with kids a lot. That's fine.
Speaker 2:But, as I said, I don't want to be a hand therapist anymore, I want to be an OT again. I've lost sense of that and I'd asked to sort of go part time because there was another therapist there that wanted to go part time or already was part time and working in a straight physio clinic as well Outside of that. And then they were like oh no, you can't. And I said, well, you better start looking to replace me then. So, and because I had so much annual leave, I was essentially getting paid full time hours and working very part time until they found an OT to replace me. And then I was out of there and I worked in a couple of different OT jobs where I was doing some upskilling. So one of them was like a school readiness role where there's a lot of capacity building. So I don't know if that's just a Victorian government education funded program, but there's a lot of upskilling of educators and around, like emotional regulation and inclusion in kinder and how I can build up the confidence and capacity of the people that were supporting the kids. So there was a lot of what I found was a really helpful skill from hand therapy to that was getting the buy in of people really quickly, because they were like kind of defensive about an external person coming into a kindergarten and telling them how to do their job, which I can totally get. So I'd, like you know, be really intentional about dressing casually and like there was a lot of just like conversational getting there, getting on on their side of like what, what is it that you're struggling with and how can I help you? I don't want to make more work for you. I want to come in here and tell you how to do evidence based practice, because you've got your clinical skills and I've got mine.
Speaker 2:But the part, the biggest issue with working in that environment was, I think just I mean it was probably just the way that the organization was like there were specific processes, but I think like people weren't really questioning the way that information was being given to people other than this one concrete way of a handout that nobody reads or whatever, and I was totally the person that's like are we? Why are we not questioning this? Why are we not like trying to think of how can we do this better? So I was just that person that was constantly going against the grain in that team and I think that probably annoyed a few people, but it was just. It wasn't. I wasn't loving it and I spent a short bit of time back at the original organization that gave me my first proper OT job because I was happy to have me back. But it's sort of, I think I now, after my, because of my journey, I was sort of at a point where I thought I almost felt like I think it was. It was one particular incidence where I had a it was like a stand in ops manager come in and was like, well, if you just did your notes on time or call people straight away, you wouldn't have this problem.
Speaker 2:I was like like the lack of insight, and I've just like as if I hadn't already talked about these issues with my team leader already. Like chat to them first. But yeah, it was just complete lack of awareness of how different people work. Like I have worked as an OT for almost 10 years and I still hate making fun calls. I hate it. I would much rather put it in an email and that's just me. And if I can avoid it I will. But like if I've got to do it it's a necessary evil. That's fine. But this is that lack of awareness. And it was almost like I just sort of said like help me, help you, by giving me the space to just slowly pick up my case. They're like you must have you know X amount of KPIs by this date and expected to be here. And that's just not me. But also, I think, the more that I realized now I got to a point where I thought what's the word say like? It was almost like it pushed me away more like that demand avoidance.
Speaker 2:Yeah, Just like yeah, get away from me, I definitely don't want to do it now. So for me, that was what I was really experiencing and it basically got to a point and this was only last year that I've been working for myself but I just got to a point where I felt like I had no choice and then I was like, well gosh, I might as well just work at Bunnings or something, like I give up, like I feel like I couldn't work for an organization that could support me at this point in my life and I was going through a lot of like intense therapy to work on some big triggers for me. So you know, there was that going on, but I just felt like there was no insight and it also felt really isolating, working in a team of people that couldn't actually relate to how trauma impacts you. So, like one of the times we had a team meeting and they were talking about trauma and there was no like heads up that they were even going to talk about trauma and then they start talking and they start talking about emotional neglect and all this stuff and probably pop in a little trauma warning on here if you need to.
Speaker 2:But the really hard part about that was like I just had to mute and turn my camera off and just like, walk away. I had to just walk away and I got to the end and because I kind of said to my team leader like oh, can you just hang on? At the end and I said I really would have loved a heads up about that and none of them even thought about the impact of talking about these things without a warning and it was like how awful it is to work in a team of people that haven't had a crap upbringing and then you know you've had all these crap things happen. It just felt extra isolating because people don't understand that. Well, I think it was just also the lack of empathy and people to just go oh, whoops. Like we'll keep that in mind for next time.
Speaker 1:It's like you shouldn't have to, like you're already working with vulnerable families, the fact that their job is working with vulnerable families and their job is to be mindful and they are that person to other people, but they can't have that same consideration in their workplace and to not realize the impact of that afterwards, like I imagine that would have been very, very hard to sort of deal with in the present time.
Speaker 2:Yeah, it was just at a point where I just thought I can't do this anymore and I think, like we're so lucky now that NDIS is here and we can just pick up the work in the way that we want to.
Speaker 2:And once I started I was really so surprised about how many other OTs actually started this journey a lot sooner than what I obviously have, and I don't know if, like NDIS is to thank for that because we have so much more flexibility. Like, literally, I was in my last year of placement and they were only just talking about what the heck is this my age care thing and all this stuff, and people were like I don't know about it, I'm not sure about it. So not that I'm like an action OT, like I haven't been out that long, but it was. It's still very unknown, but it's so good that we have so many things to support us and work in a way that we can as well. So I was at a point where I had all this clinical experience. It just then felt easy to go. You know what, I'm just going to work in the way that I want to and figure it out from there.
Speaker 1:I love that and I feel, given the NDIS and, like you said, how easily we can pick up work and the availability of it, I feel like the OT services that people are receiving are better because OTs are allowed to work now in a way that suits them. There are OTs who are working as sole traders, who didn't thrive in a workplace, didn't thrive in a big team or in, you know, having that that people above them being able to work independently. The quality of the OT service they're providing is better. I think it's so great and there are people who would never be able to work as sole traders and need that team, but how great that we've got the choice and we can work how we feel we can work best.
Speaker 2:Yeah, and I think like just yeah. I think the issue that I had when I had like a case load that was given to me, what I found was these people didn't want to work with me. And then there was already like this disappointment from the get go and it was hard for me to then connect with them because you were just like handed over this list that either hasn't had OT for X amount of time because they didn't have the staff, or this other therapist is like sick of the person, or you know that's not always a case, but you know they've worked with them for a long time, so therapy is a bit stagnant. So then they hand them over and then you've got to rebuild the rapport again, whereas now the greatest thing that I've had for working for myself, if I've had people reach out because they want to work with me, and it's just a great start. And then it also leads to great outcomes because you're all on the same page, you know what they want and then you're working with them to help them get that.
Speaker 1:Absolutely. And then the beauty of social media is, I think, is you're able to well, I just don't watch so bad, that was probably really loud but you're able to show who you are and show what your therapy style is, a little bit, I guess and what you sort of value in therapy, and people are able to see that and if that's what aligns with them, they can pursue that with you. Whereas when you're just rocking up to a big clinic and it's, you know, there's 10 other therapists and everyone's got a very different way of doing things, you don't know if you're going to align with that family. I think it's so awesome that we are able to sort of put out our vibe, I guess, for families to sort of see whether they align with that. I think it's awesome.
Speaker 2:Yeah, I think the other thing was I was a type of person that could feel, if a therapy session didn't go well, and then would have a conversation about it of like, oh you know, can I do this better? How was that for you? And I think it just felt like with some of the people I was working with, they weren't questioning like how they could do stuff better, though, either just feeling crap about themselves like I'm not good enough yet, or they were just following the lead of someone else who was telling them how to do their job and literally, like one particular supervisor was had this expectation of what an OT should look like. But that is so skew, if in, and it's not supportive in any way. And you know, there was also like a lot of circumstances in supervision where, as soon as I get there, okay, I know I did blah or unaware of this, and they're like, oh, I'm so glad you brought this up about.
Speaker 2:You know, xyz, I was like I have my own reflection skills. I can almost give myself supervision, thank you. I don't need you to tell me what I've done wrong, yeah, or what I need to work on, and it was almost like they were really enjoying just telling people what they're not good at. So I just I couldn't do it. I couldn't do it. I think I just worked in too many toxic workplaces to have to deal with it anymore.
Speaker 1:Absolutely, and I think the I love the point you made about how, when there's someone above you sort of telling you how the therapy process should be and what that process should look like, I think if you put, especially in the pediatric space, if you put 10 OTs in a room, everyone's going to have a different approach on how they get to the same goal. So when you're being told how you should be doing, that you're naturally not being true to yourself, you're naturally not giving authentic therapy and that's going to show over time. That's when you're going to burn out, if you're not being as authentic as you can be. So, yeah, I love that point and I also, yeah, love the point again about supervision, which is a great segue, because you offer clinical supervision and I would love to know what that looks like and what if someone wants to reach out and want supervision from you. What is the sort of approach that you take?
Speaker 2:Now I did write a couple of points so I don't forget Amazing. But the main approach yeah, I don't I'm not really scripted at all ever, but the main one is obviously like neuro-ferming which is kind of cool because that's a bit of a new kid on the block term sort of thing, you know. But basically it's really about how to understand yourself and advocate for yourself and how you can work efficiently in a way that works best for you. And part of that is about how you can almost like advocate for that when you are working in a team with people above you telling you you should do XYZ, like I get. If there's processors, there's like a particular way to do it and that's how you follow it. But other than that, like no one should be telling you how to do your job.
Speaker 2:And also, at the same time, people are just getting stuck in jobs because they feel like they're not ready yet and I've worked with OTs that have been told like you're not ready yet and it's just shocking because you don't realise the damage that that causes to the mental state of that person. Just then, passing on a bit of positive feedback Like you have to do so much work on positive feedback, just on one bit of negative feedback that someone gets. So yeah, I just feel like, based on my clinical experience, it's about how can we practically support you on what you want to do, and I'm not just here to do like restorative supervision in how's things going for you, what can we do better. That's just not my jam and I think, just based on like life experience for me and knowing what works for me, like I've got a lot of different life examples and work examples that I just think that that can work and very authentic and strength space.
Speaker 2:But that's the whole thing I think that I really try to focus on and being authentic as myself. Like I think that that's helped me connect better with people. If people really like that, I find that that really works in the sense of like supporting other therapists and like I really enjoyed doing it when I was doing some, I sort of did a bit of a part-time tutoring at a uni for a health promotion course for the OTs there and I just love it. I just love upskilling other therapists and I think I just got to a point where I realized I can teach people to do what I do and we need more therapists that are confident. We need more confident therapists in the world because at the moment, everyone's swamped or quitting their job.
Speaker 1:It doesn't seem to be getting any better. In a way, like I think there's so many great people out there that are advocating for burnout and advocating for confidence in the workplace, but we still as many good stories as we're hearing, we're still hearing just as many negative stories as well. So the more people who are working, doing the work that you're doing, and advocating for that really strong clinical confidence and just workplace confidence in general not even clinical, I think, yeah, hopefully it's trickling through and we see more confident therapists. That would make the world a much better place, I think.
Speaker 2:Yeah, it kind of got to a realization where there was a local OT practice, private practice that had, like I don't know, two year waiting list or something, and there aren't many OTs in the area at all.
Speaker 2:And the issue was that I just thought this is not sustainable, like you can't wait that long for therapy and, given that I've been working in the upskilling and capacity building and coaching space, like we need to be teaching more people about what we teach, not just getting OTs.
Speaker 2:Like yes, we do need OTs to do therapy, but largely we need there's not enough of us to go around to support every family. There just isn't, which I think is probably also what contributes to burnout. So for me, I just thought I want to. I want to have like even one positive experience with a parent who then tells their friend, who then tells their friend and building their village to feel confident and capable of their ability as a parent, because I think we also, like parents, get so overwhelmed with that stuff too. So I think it's this like whole chicken or the egg, like with the therapy space, and they get in and they've got these big caseloads and I've worked with therapists that end up having like 80 people on their caseload, that how do they even have the brain space to then flip between all these people, though they might see only once a month, but still it's shocking.
Speaker 1:One of my favorite quotes from Dave Gerrams, one of his very, very familiar quotes, is to help the people that help the kids, and I think it's such a great way to.
Speaker 1:I guess sort of encapsulate, that it's more than just the one-on-one work we're doing with kids. It's how can we upskill parents, how can we upskill daycares, how can we upskill educators and teachers and everyone else who is involved in the children's life? Like that ripple effect is gonna be far, far greater than if we're just focusing on one-to-one therapy, because weight lists are. Every time I consider my weight list or I consider the weight list of the services around my local area, it just makes me so sad.
Speaker 1:And I don't know about you, but you sort of get to a point of being a bit desensitized to it, which is horrible Because it's like there's always gonna be a weight list, like it is what it is. I really struggled with it when I first started, but now it's like oh, just another person to add to the weight.
Speaker 2:What can you do Like?
Speaker 1:what can you do Exactly yeah?
Speaker 2:The biggest issue I found with that was like I didn't really want one, but come after the end of last year I saw so many people that I was truly exhausted, so it's like I really need to just close it right now. But the biggest issue I found was like what's the word? I'm gonna lose my train of thought and it'll come back soon, but it's just. I just found that people like it's just not sustainable to like wait that long. Oh, that's just what it was. People who are on the weight list and then you call them and they go. So what even is OT? You're like you've been on here this long and you don't even know why you're here. We could have like knit this in the bud ages ago. So for me it was also the questions that I asked in the like weight list intake to help me understand does this person need education or do they need to be like, can I feel a bit better about tabling it?
Speaker 2:I was also like the clientele that I see, like I feel like there's a specific need for therapy for, say, like motor conditions and other like physical things on really severe neurological things, but for the kids it's just behavior challenges and getting back on the right track, which we probably would have similar demographics of kids that we would see. Sometimes you're just like, well, that could be any kid, it could be literally any kid, and it really comes down to the people that are around the kid all of the time, which are the parents, the teachers, the educators, the like, all of that stuff. And I just thought I cannot spread myself that thin. And no OT ever can, not even the best OT ever can, or even the OT with the best clinic ever can do it. So that's what I just thought for me. I wanted to shut down at the thought, but also I just thought there's got to be a better way to do it. So for me it's just get my word out in my face out there and just talk people's heads off.
Speaker 1:Absolutely, absolutely, and you touched on it a little bit earlier before. But one of the values you bring to clinical supervision is that you're neuro-affirming, and I know that that's sort of the focus you have in your clinical work as well. So what does that sort of look like to you, and why do you think being neuro-affirming is so important? I know that's a very sort of broad question and there's a million things you could probably cover, but what do you think the main thing is?
Speaker 2:I'll see how I go. So I guess the main thing really is just the biggest thing about neuro-affirming is about strength-based, that strength-based model and the family-centered model. So I think the issue that I found when people even said that they were neuro-affirming or whatever and like, oh look, I'm offering this person choices, but then they're being really rigid in therapy or people are just looking at behavior as naughty or whatever and you just think just because they do something one way doesn't mean it's a problem. And I have been. I felt alien to what other people do my whole life. Or like when I had a really good maths teacher in like year nine, I think in high school, and he said to me you didn't do it the way that I taught everyone to do it, but you still got there, so that's all that matters. I love that and for me I just thought like that that's what neuro-affirming is.
Speaker 1:How validated yeah?
Speaker 2:Yeah, it was the only teacher that ever really validated that, but for me I was like, yes, and at the time I really liked maths. I'm now pretty terrible at it, but it was very validating that. Oh, my brain does work differently and that's okay, because I think I always was made to feel like there was something wrong with that, and I think that's the biggest issue with supporting people who are neuro-diverse is that there's something wrong with them that they need to change. So it really is just that you know, like whether it'd be a particular behavior or the way that a kid does something, or even just the goals that they wanna work on. Like if it's not meaningful to them, then we're not gonna work on it. Like we're not gonna work on it just because society says we should work on it. So for me I think that's what how I felt and I guess in the sense of supervision as well, it's really just helping that person understand themselves. So that's just like finding out who you authentically are, which also reminds me. It's also like so much about mindset and how you speak to yourself. So I do not believe in the term imposter syndrome, because for me I believe it's a gendered issue and I believe, even though I tease as females, then that's statistically, that's just there.
Speaker 2:But there's a fantastic I think it's a real on Instagram, but there's a fantastic woman called Reshma Sajani. I'll send you the details. She talks about the bicycle face. Have you heard of it? I haven't.
Speaker 2:You should watch it, because she talks about how years ago, like decades ago, when they invented the bicycle and then women were like able to get out into the community and ride bikes, then they created this issue or like syndrome or condition called bicycle face, because women were getting red in the face from riding their bike all the time. And then now like imposter syndrome. It's not a syndrome, it's a normal feeling that we express. But also it's a bit of a societal like. To me it feels like a bit of a societal agenda issue about we, as women, need to earn our right to be able to call ourselves a rider, call ourselves an artist, whatever it is. So the moment you are kind of like, if you have the mindset and mentality, the moment that you seek out what you think makes sense to you, the more that it will appear in your life. So I think, like maybe Brené Brown is talking about, the more that you see like I'm not good enough or I'm fat or whatever, the more that you'll see things around you that validate that thought.
Speaker 1:Yeah.
Speaker 2:So I guess it's also about what's the terminology and ideals I have in my life that do align with me and that don't align with me, and the rest can just go in the bin. Basically.
Speaker 1:I love it, though, like I've never thought of it that way. I love when people give me things like this to think about, but it's literally just mindset, isn't it? It's? If you think that you are impostering your position, if you think you are not meant to be there or you're not doing a good job, of course you're gonna think that everyone's one email with a slight tone is because you're not a good OT, or they're one critique for your feedback, like for your therapy session, is because you're not a good OT. Of course you're gonna perceive everything that way. But if you're in a positive mindset, like you're gonna think sunshine's out of you as it's short and have you ever had an OT or anyone else say to you that you're a bad OT?
Speaker 1:They haven't. Maybe behind my back, but not to my face. No, I don't think anyone would listen.
Speaker 2:What doesn't matter Wouldn't really matter then anyway, because you can't control what goes on behind closed doors. So it's the same sort of thing. So I think it's also just promoting that mindset of you can't control what you have no control of, only yourself. And like what do you know is true. Like how do you even get from an OT who's a new grad to where you know you or I am now? And that's about knowing like you're gonna be bad at some stuff, but there's always gonna be beautiful things that are great here all the way through. So like, why spend your time worrying about what you're not good at? I don't know.
Speaker 1:For me, I just felt like I don't have time to be worrying about that stuff and I think, like from what I see, like I think there's so many OTs who maybe are two or three years out and have this mindset that we're speaking of and I just I can't wait for the day that those new grads have that mindset while it's happening, because they know that it's a time thing, they know that eventually.
Speaker 1:I had a conversation with the new grad this morning. She said I know I will get more confident and I know I'll be better, but right now this really sucks. And I was like, yeah, like it does suck and there's no timeline for it. But think of the positive things, of all the great things you're doing. But the day that new grads sort of have that in their mind from the get-go and they're not waiting for the magical time to tick over of like, oh okay, I'm a confident OT now. Like it's not, there's not. No, I don't know what I'm trying to say, but there's no like tick over to it. There's no like all right, you're an OT now.
Speaker 2:And there's some. They actually have interviewed high school students even about the ability to own a home and they already have the mentality that they're never gonna own a home.
Speaker 2:So it's kind of the same concept that if the more that we reinforce like that you're never gonna get there, or that it takes a long time or whatever, I think it's also just we're not comfortable anymore at being bad at something. And I think for me, learning an instrument as an adult and or say, like when I was learning to skateboard and you could do something different every day, but you were still really bad at it essentially, but you weren't focusing on that, you were focusing on what you learned that day or still having fun in some aspect. So I think, like if you worked in a team, that really helps to be able to like still be able to talk about your crappy day or whatever that might be. There's plenty of that that you could delve into. I used to print out like little memes for my friends that were ATs and like stick them on their wall, and that always brightened out.
Speaker 1:I love that. That's. The one thing I do miss about like being a sole trader is I love like workplace banter and I love the good vibes that you can all bring each other when you're sort of stuck in those routes and you need a little bit of that info.
Speaker 1:But again, I think that's why the Instagram community is so wonderful, because we're all sort of doing that for each other online. So it's not the in-person validation and the banter that you need, but it's. You know, there's so many grottoes out there that are sharing good, positive stories, which helps, I think.
Speaker 2:Yeah, and we're not scary. We're always happy to chat.
Speaker 1:Absolutely, absolutely. Yeah. Hey, Kim, where do you see yourself in five years? Again, I love a broad question that could go anywhere, but what does life look like for you in five years time?
Speaker 2:Look, I ideally would like to be able to get to a point where I could have more than just me in my business Amazing when I can just sit back and know that I've taught some OTs to work in the way that they're comfortable doing and I'm there to nurture them in our OT journey. So that is part of it. But also I really want to, which I think is a little bit more motivating now that we're moving I really want to teach neurodiverse kids how to swim Because for me it's like there are so well, there definitely are more OTs now that I've learned, that are doing like surf programs and all that stuff. For me it's just like getting in the pool and teaching kids how to swim, because I think that I'm quite an empathetic, hyper-sensitive person, so I think I can sort of rate the cues and lack.
Speaker 2:You know, swimming was a thing that we always did as kids and we were always quite active. So I think it's just trying to find ways to bring in the power of like water, which is obviously so therapeutic, in a way that's more encompassing for neurodiverse kids. That isn't just a private swim school by, you know, any standard swim teacher. It's very therapeutically informed and just yeah, like navigating that space Plus. I just love that would be a great way to cool down in the heat all the time.
Speaker 1:I love that, especially in the option the far North Queensland heat. I think you'll definitely find value in that. That's such a cool niche thing to focus on. I really like that. I hope that comes to fruition for you and you can share more about that, because even and this is a side note, but I mean there's so many. This is not a dig at any swim teachers, but there are a lot of people that offer private one-on-one swim sessions for our neurodiverse kiddos. They're just not trained.
Speaker 2:There's no better way to do it. They're not trained.
Speaker 1:Yeah, yeah.
Speaker 2:No, no. And I think the other issue is it's awful. I mean, this was a feedback that I heard from a support coordinator in that they said they were inquiring about swimming lessons for some autistic I don't know if they were adults or kids. There might have been like primary school aged kids and they go oh, we don't have any groups for them, we'll just have to put them in with the normal kids. And you're just like no, no, no, no, no, no, no, no, no, no. That's not okay. So it was just like this is a problem and we need to be more inclusive, and I'm never going there.
Speaker 1:Yeah, and it was terrible, it was so bad. Inclusivity is such like I feel like it's such a like we could have a whole other podcast just on this. But like that systematic, like long-term bias and that that, oh, that makes me angry that they might not have even had any intention of their comment, but the fact that that's so ingrained in what they think and how they think when they hear of a child with a disability and neurodiverse child, like that, yeah, shocking.
Speaker 2:It's shocking and you know like it's not like they're going to chuck them in the hydro pool or whatever. Like you also don't want your kids neurodiverse kids in there, because there are people in there that need to be in there. Yeah, it's just like for me, I just like you know what that's. That's something that would be really cool. It may not come to fruition, but let's just see. I may just want to just stay in the pool in five years and just just hire other ATs.
Speaker 1:Hey, that would be nice.
Speaker 2:Yeah, so, sure would yeah.
Speaker 1:Kim, if you could go back and give Unikim any bit of advice, what do you think you'd tell her?
Speaker 2:Just study a little bit, more small bits, yeah, more often. Yeah, because I was totally like a crash study kind of thing. But also, I don't know, I don't have any like constructive advice. I think just being aware of what you're doing is really good for you, because I just found my identity a little bit there too. It was great. Having my own alone time and my own life outside of being at home was fantastic. So, yeah, that's probably what I would. I just just keep doing your thing, really.
Speaker 1:Amazing. I love that. I love that advice. Kim, I've started doing a fun new way. Well, I think it's fun. Wind out of the sessions and it's with my five new rapid fires. I'm just going to give you five questions and I want you to give me a quick answers if you're ready to go. Yeah, sure, tomato sauce in the fridge or in the cupboard.
Speaker 2:It used to be the cupboard, but now the fridge. Oh she switched sides.
Speaker 1:Okay, favorite OT resource.
Speaker 2:At the moment. It's like anything, that's like Nido, that is like squishy fidget.
Speaker 1:Oh yeah, cool, yeah Good one Summer or winter, or spring or autumn.
Speaker 2:Probably autumn in Victoria. Yeah, because it's probably the most calm and tolerable.
Speaker 1:Yeah, beauty Favorite and least favorite unit at uni.
Speaker 2:Favorite would probably be we had the second part of our anatomy was like head, neck and pathology, yeah, and I like aced pathology really well, so that was pretty cool, amazing. I think that's what helped me pass the last part of anatomy as well. But yeah, that was definitely the favorite. Least favorite would have been anything that wasn't an OT subject, because I was so bored and was like okay, whatever.
Speaker 1:And what's your favorite? Superdip, a flavor.
Speaker 2:Now I don't know if they still do cola, but cola is the fave, but if not, it'd be fairy floss Cola they.
Speaker 1:I definitely had a cola about five minutes before we jumped on this zoom, so they definitely exist and they're definitely good, amazing, and any cola flavor would be good. Beauty, beauty, kim. If anyone is listening to this episode and they want to get in contact with you clinically, as a superbars, or they just want to see all the cool things you're doing, how can they get in contact?
Speaker 2:So they can find me on the gram or the Instagram or also on Facebook, though I don't have a lot of followers there. So if you are a Facebook user, I do exist on creativity and beyond OT. So just what it says on the tin creativity and beyond OT and that's how you'll find me. So you can message me, you can comment, whatever you like, I'm available.
Speaker 1:You share some great resources. We didn't touch too much about your Instagram, which I'm disappointed. We're going to do it right now. You share some really great resources and valuable for clinical things, for professional things. I just, yeah, you share some great things. So, if anyone wants to go over and follow, your links will be in my show notes. Go and check it out. Yeah, that's. That's the quick summary.
Speaker 2:The funny thing I'm going to. I'm going to check on to that, because the funny thing about that was when I was a kid and we didn't have didn't always have the internet available because we had dial up I would sit on my computer and make PowerPoints or do stuff on Microsoft Paint. So if you're wondering who does my fabulous posts, it's me, because I'm a bit of a nerd and I love it. I love it's like deluxe paint is Canva? Oh, is it.
Speaker 1:Canva great, and how the world comes full circle. Isn't that funny. I love that.
Speaker 2:Yeah. So I mean, it was just a natural skill I already had and I I was probably considered a bit weird for it, but hey, it's a useful skill now. So take that.
Speaker 1:Kim, thank you so much for coming on and chatting. I've loved learning about your journey. Thank you for being vulnerable and sharing the highs and the lows of how you got to where you are. It's been an absolute pleasure and I look forward to keeping on connecting in the future.
Speaker 2:Yeah or more is up for a chat. Thank you very much for having me.
Speaker 1:Another huge thank you to Kim for coming on the pod, very, very much appreciated. Definitely go and check out her social page, if you don't already follow her, because it is useful, like I said at the start, for everyone, no matter what point of your journey you are on. Now, before we wrap this episode up, I am going to share my silly little fun fact about my silly little nothing to do with OT, and I've got a really good one for you today and I want you to picture me trying to debunk this one for the last I don't know 20 minutes. Anyway, did you know that the top half of your jaw never moves, so like if you're swinging your jaw or if you're chomping on, I don't know what you do, whatever you're doing, you're not moving the top half of your jaw, you're only moving the bottom half.
Speaker 1:Go on, try it. I see you. I see you. You can't move it. Obviously, if you turn your head, like geographically, your jaw will move, but like physically, your jaw is not going to move. Great fact. Keep that one for your next dinner party. That is all we have time for today. Thank you for tuning in, thank you for your support, thank you for everyone who listens and I just love you have a great day.