Leaders in Supply Chain and Logistics

#06: Bjorn Vang Jensen Global Head of Logistics at Electrolux - Part 1

September 26, 2017 Radu Palamariu Season 1 Episode 6
Leaders in Supply Chain and Logistics
#06: Bjorn Vang Jensen Global Head of Logistics at Electrolux - Part 1
Chapters
Leaders in Supply Chain and Logistics
#06: Bjorn Vang Jensen Global Head of Logistics at Electrolux - Part 1
Sep 26, 2017 Season 1 Episode 6
Radu Palamariu

Bjorn Vang Jensen, Global Head of Logistics at Electrolux. Bjorn is a global industry figure, started his career as graduate of the A.P. Møller/Maersk Shipping School. Subsequently worked for Maersk group, then on the 3PL side for DHL and TNT. And last 13 years as a proud leader of the Electrolux supply chain team. All in all, Bjorn has lived in Asia for the past 28 years, during which time he has been based in Thailand, Hong Kong, Japan, Malaysia, the Philippines, and Singapore.

Discover more details here.

Episode #06 Part 1 Highlights:

  • How to manage a team of 22 logisticians spread all over the world on all continents.
  • Electrolux Supply Chain started 13 years ago with 12/13,000 TEU and this year for the first time it will almost certainly break 200,000 TEU.
  • How much paper is involved in moving a shipment of cocoa from Nigeria to Rotterdam?

Follow us on:
Instagram: http://bit.ly/2Wba8v7
Twitter: http://bit.ly/2WeulzX
Linkedin: http://bit.ly/2w9YSQX
Facebook: http://bit.ly/2HtryLd

Show Notes Transcript

Bjorn Vang Jensen, Global Head of Logistics at Electrolux. Bjorn is a global industry figure, started his career as graduate of the A.P. Møller/Maersk Shipping School. Subsequently worked for Maersk group, then on the 3PL side for DHL and TNT. And last 13 years as a proud leader of the Electrolux supply chain team. All in all, Bjorn has lived in Asia for the past 28 years, during which time he has been based in Thailand, Hong Kong, Japan, Malaysia, the Philippines, and Singapore.

Discover more details here.

Episode #06 Part 1 Highlights:

  • How to manage a team of 22 logisticians spread all over the world on all continents.
  • Electrolux Supply Chain started 13 years ago with 12/13,000 TEU and this year for the first time it will almost certainly break 200,000 TEU.
  • How much paper is involved in moving a shipment of cocoa from Nigeria to Rotterdam?

Follow us on:
Instagram: http://bit.ly/2Wba8v7
Twitter: http://bit.ly/2WeulzX
Linkedin: http://bit.ly/2w9YSQX
Facebook: http://bit.ly/2HtryLd

spk_1:   0:00
Hello, everybody. And welcome to the leaders in supply chain podcast. I am your host, Radha Palamar. You global logistics and supply chain practice head for Morgan Phillips. My job is to connect you with global experts, thought leaders and executives in all things supply chain. I will do my best to pick their brains on supply chain and logistics, leading edge technologies, leadership stories and personal success habits. Hello, everybody. And welcome to episode number six of Leaders in supply Chain Podcast. My name is Radha Palamar. You and I'm the global head of supply chain and logistics practice for Morgan Phillips Executive Search We are delighted to have together with us today you're on Jensen Global head of logistics, intellectual looks. Bjorn is a global industry figure, started his career, is a graduate of the Merced shipping school and subsequently worked for the most group, then on the Threepio side for Excel and TNT and last 13 years is a probably there of electric supply chain team, although, you know, during his legally nature for the past 30 years, across Thailand, Hong Kong, Japan, Malaysia, Philippines and Singapore, you're welcome. And thank you for joining us. Thank you. Roger. So for today we'll have our our normal series of questions coming from our audience. It ourselves broadly supply chain related questions, talent and career development questions as well as personal advice that Bjorn can share with our audience. So without further ado, let's start on the industry and supply chain side. So tell us a little bit about your success story in Elektra Luxx. I mean, you've been with the company for roughly 13 years now. First is a big vice president now is a global logistics leader. Let's say what have been two of your major breakthroughs in your supply chain over these years and maybe share some insights for audience in terms of what was the main learnings. For me,

spk_0:   1:42
it's been a major journey. Arado ItT's been a great privilege, I think, to be part off off the Asian logistics of supplies in landscape for all those many years across all those countries and and across all the modes and both under on the supply side and under by side on. And the surprising landscaping in Asia has changed beyond all recognition in those 30 years, I was was privileged to work in both developing countries in that period of very, very rapid development in Southeast Asian late eighties early nineties. On contrast that with working in I developed country like Japan for almost five years very, very, very different kind of supply chain, then back again via now, very developed countries in Southeast Asia that were whether supply chain was changing from a very transactional, too much more strategic and plant network type of activity. And then finally ending up here on the on the buy side 13 years ago with the next rock source was maybe the biggest shift of them all. I think when you come from the supply side and and you fancy yourself a bit of a of a student of supply chain practices, you you can't wait to get over on the buy side and teach them everything about supply chain. Well, I was that homeless experience going into a manufacturing company, knowing well enough much about supply chain Thio defend myself on that score, but really having to learn a whole new world and how people within a manufacturing company think about supply chain and how, uh, when you work on the supply side, uh, there are so many aspects of the supply chain of a manufacturing company that you simply have never been exposed to on. So there really are not very many easy solutions. But you learn over the age adapt. And this is an exciting world. And of course, having the supply side background as well I was. I was able to tie the two together. So success is true. Major breakthroughs in our supply chain changes, I would say, rather than breakthroughs changes is, of course, globalization. When I joined Electra Roxy yes, we certainly had a global foot brain. That footprint was was much more skewed towards having our own factories in local or regional markets on dhe with component suppliers. So we're very close to those factories again, locally, originally and, of course, go all the way back through through. You know, that very rapid globalization from 2004 to 2009 was a big shift to William Manufacturing to sourcing components faraway, low cost countries to looking very closely at the old manufacturing footprint, which has been dramatically reduced in terms of number of factories and much more regionalized over all those years. And if I've been a part of that success. It's been enabling that globalization by helping, together with my team and a lot of dedicated players in the company and a lot of three bills and carriers enabling that globalization by creating a strong global logistics network while at the same time doing that with a team that's literally spread all over the world. We don't sit here in a big supply chain bunker and sinker ball. My team of 22 largest nations are literally spread all over the world on every continent. That's been personally very rewarding for me to to see that seem grown vast. Majority team has been with me from day one on. And so we have a huge base of experience now on their, frankly, very few things that can surprise us on very few things we can't deal with. I say, Well, knocking on Why Knocking on wood? Uh, so, uh, insights that other supplies team leaders can work from? Uh, it's all about the team that you build and the trust to do that, replacing into you in the autonomy of placing your you cannot run a global, uh, globally responsible and globally based team unless you give Sears. That's Ana me. They're roses to your team members on. Of course, it goes without saying that this means you have to staff. It seemed from Day one with people who are who are worthy of that autonomy and get out a great deal of trust without having to manage them on a day to day basis. That's that's been a huge success. And that would be my advice to other global leaders.

spk_1:   6:47
Yeah, thank you for that way. Had a very good question from from Abdullah, who was was talking a little bit about the huge volumes that Electrolux obviously has. So he was saying that of course you have significant bargaining power to maintain direct carrier context, but would you say you're moving forward? There are opportunities also full freight forwarders to add value to the electoral explains. So it's a great question, and the answer, of

spk_0:   7:13
course, is yes. But let me backtrack a little bit and talk about these volumes. But it is true that we do control an enormous amount off suspicions of containment right in the last 13 years. If you look at the electoral of top line, it varies depending on exchange rate and global financial climates somewhere between 15 and $18 billion a year. It's a pretty straight line, depending on how you scale the y axis. But But if you send superimposed on that truck line the development in containers that we have moved over the same period we started 13 years ago with it's a 12 13,000 to you this year, for the first time, we will almost certainly break 200,000 to you. There's a very interesting two lines to look at right, because what he's really saying is the top line. It changes a little bit here and there, but there's almost exponential growth in the volumes. And how is that? Well, that's globalization into in two lines on a child. Yeah, and I'm quite sure that many other companies see it. See, it's a very similar trend. It is quite my blowing when you see when you see that shot. Um, what that means when you get up to this kind of volume. Abdullah is absolutely right. Of course there's We have great leverage, and there is more sense for us in using carry direct contract, not about it. Uh, the point here is that that's not necessarily just whether you use can use a forward. I know it's not a function of your lawyer. It's a function of your needs, and it's a function off your sensitivities of price. And so, with the average value of off our containers being a quite lobe, we are extremely sensitive to shipping rates. There's no doubt about it. Uh, that would be different from, for example, a shoe manufacturer or a tronic manufacturer was no neediest price sensitive because that their product of smaller, high value and so they can carry a high afraid cost. And what we found when we've tried to engage freight forwarders purely moving our containers is that none of them can give anyone NIA by hundreds and hundreds of fellows. But see you the prices that we can get from Carrie's when we go carriage right? Uh, and so it is very difficult, given our price sensitivity to make the case when we were using afraid for in our case, we have also chosen as a company to have a significant in house capability on the supply chain management side, especially in Asia. And what that means is that scope for freight forwarders on Pure if she'll uh, finished products to come in and provide those subjects to us is quite limited, as many have discovered. And it's not for lack of trying that that they found that having said that there are value added service is that freight forwarders provide that that we have a lot ourselves up. We use a freight forwarders, repeals Indios. Call them what you want for things like Consolidation Service's buys consolidation in China, which calls shoes and for customs brokerage. We of course, you're straightforward for afraid on naturally, for the for the expedite. Afraid we use the big, big career, Cos um, and I would say, for electrodes that kind of the scope is for for for freight forwarding company. Uh uh. But other companies may be very different.

spk_1:   11:07
Yeah, probably for the Contract Logistics Center. Yeah, yeah, where a

spk_0:   11:15
mixture would say, and that various, quite significantly by region were mixture off in house operations of our distribution center, send and outsourced operations. But there are multiple opportunities there, especially in the multi use of space on also in the transport side. Let's let's touch on that. I mean, if you really look at the government neck trucks spend on logistics as near as we can tell, because it's sometimes difficult to engage him to gauge. But we are right there where, where we're most modern industrial companies, I saw somewhere around 10% of the top line right, so that would make it probably around $1.5 billion a year. I would venture a guess that 80% of that is road and rail transport. On where? Out? Yeah, regionally and domestically, Single country try. So there are huge opportunities there as well. Yeah, for foreign bureaus and grateful for this.

spk_1:   12:16
Yeah, I mean, I guess that's that's also what would be singing in terms of the industry in general. The three billion stressing that more or less all of them or something, trying to be more of a solution, providing Brady's a commodity or it's become very greatest commodity.

spk_0:   12:31
I think I think you know, when I have conversations with freight forwarders around around around ocean trade mostly will tell you today that it's not actually the arbitrage on the freight that they made money on into the surcharges and the ancillary service is, and the origin shot is the destination. Job is it's not afraid arbitrage, Because I don't think if you ever afraid forwarding company today and you're basing your business model on on ocean frayed arbitrage, then, huh? But I don't think you'll have a long, Happy Life.

spk_1:   13:00
No snow story. What is ahead? Yeah. Um, Davin Davin Hamburg asked Technology technology questions. Of course, Technologies is We talk about it every day nowadays, so technology for logistics and supply chain as technological decisions bludgeoned, develops. What are the top three benefits you see coming from technology? So again, it's It's a question

spk_0:   13:23
that it's impossible to answer as a broad answer that holds true for everyone, right, that that's impossible for me. I think the three benefits from technology that we're seeing in the global logistics is the visibility is getting better and better. Normal players are there providing visibility very, very granular level for much less money than it used to cost again. Invisibility problem with visibility is, of course, that it's it's garbage in gob job, right? So if you don't have the input, the messages from your service providers and your suppliers and your own people that are not sent time. Leo. They're wrong world. And you know it doesn't really matter how grand you look good. Visibility is right. And here I think there are seven main immediate challenges, particularly on the carrier side. It's not a problem to get the initial visibility. The problem is, as things change, a CZ good move through. This bites and something goes wrong. The speed with which your service providers update and adjust your visibility very greatly. Carriers are ocean carriers are generally quite terrible at it, it's reveals, are generally much better at it. And you can go back to the previous question and say there is maybe a case for using embryos and Fred forward because they do that for a living. Yeah, so that's kind of noble. One of invisibility has come such a long way, and number two kind of dovetails with disabilities risk management, because what we're doing, what we have been doing, not Electrolux. But all companies who have gone through rapid globalization is, of course, what we've done to our supply chain. What no supply chain textbook will ever recommend that you do right? You, the fundamental tenet of supplies and management, is the closer you can have everything t your point of consumption or the further you could delay the customization before the point of consumption. The more robust and predictable and and inventory light is your supply chain. Of course, what we've all done is the exact opposite Right way exploded our sublight instance of the first reaches of the world in search of low cost or other benefits of scale benefits. And and with that comes sitting very significant. Risk your your your your lead times Get along with your pipe lines. Get longer your small accidents at the furthest reaches. Splashing is amplified beyond all comprehension by the time by the sound of the consequences. Reach the point of consumption and, sir, visibility in risk management go hand in hand. But it's not just about knowing where my stuff is. It's also managing, for example, your portfolios. Earth runs again. Let me go back to ocean freight, always a new dear to my heart, the alliances that we've seen spring up now that have reduced choice for people like us. It's not just about reducing, uh, pricing options. It's also about reducing choices. Just risk, and you can now, so keep yourself that you have actually chosen three different supplies. But it turns out that they're all using the same shit. Yeah, it's a risk management on. We're seeing a plethora of risk management software come not now as well that that aims to help with that. Some of that. Some of those solutions are better than others, some more relevant to some industries and others, but certainly risk management assist their lives to say without the signal it e we had Ralph. It wouldn't be very much fun to try and manage O r us supply chain in the wake of Hurricane Irma American hobby. Yeah, but because we have the technology, we have thes things get easier. Maybe see they get easier. Yeah, so and the third, I think. And I'm a huge advocate of this. The third exciting technology that particular about really is botching block teams on everyone's mind right now into a very, very good reason. Supply chain management and the statistics are incredibly documentation heavy. Yeah, undertakings. And at any opportunity we can we can take to go paper Lessel two or two to move onto ah to a distributed database. Uh, signal light Blockchain think of the potential to illuminate rating purchase orders, thinking the potential to eliminate, develop bleeding the seaway bill a ll These cake documents that we really ought to fix the long time ago or the Blockchain holds real promise. So telling everyone who will listen and my own team as well If you don't make it your business to learn about Blockchain, I would actually question your commitment to developing yourself within this industry because it's coming. It's gonna be big.

spk_1:   18:31
Yeah, on bringing it to The point is, I think Blockchain is. It's gonna be really away for next question. Block changes on a lot of people's lips. A lot of people talk about it. Some people are doing things about it. I think IBM is, is is leading the way. They've announced a couple of very significant case studies with Nurse. With WalMart, they saw, um, so it's coming. It's coming faster. I think that maybe some people realized like you said, um, let's talk a little bit just briefly. More about what? Well, you've you've spoken a little bit about the impact. But what else do you think? Well, I mean, really willing. We're change and We'll we'll see by 2020 blocks and

spk_0:   19:17
blocks. And I think much will depend on where we choose to apply this technology first, right? Like like with any other potentially disruptive technology. It's all about whether it hits the sweet spot from day one, and then it spreads like rings in the scent. Let's say, for example, something that excited people to no end 12 13 14 years ago are fighting. Our body was the new black There was, you know, everything. Everything was gone. I d'd every every bottle of shampoo on a supermarket shelf was gonna have an r if I teach a planet and we wouldn't even have to do anything other than smile at the cashier is we rolled our are shopping trolleys out of the supermarket because everything would have already been read and our credit card would already have been chopped. Right? But that didn't really happen, right? Yeah. What did happen? What ultimately drove the success of our fighting where a few big players that that insisted that their supplies use our 40 Wal Mart, I think led that charge back then. But even so, costs held it back. And so our bodies of lived a a little bit of a backwater existence compared to its initial huge promise, simply because it costs held it back to cost of the chips, the cost of the scanners, the the difficulty of implementation. Blockchain is a little bit different in that it really is a whole lot of costumed difficulty of implementation. This is not a physical thing where you have to make sure that all packaging has now got to be redesigned. Thio contain our fatty chips and all that source. This is about finding that sweet spot, and I think I think it's all about free documentation. If we can stop with Fred Documentation, that is exactly what I am the most doing together. I'm trying to attack

spk_1:   21:09
the most painful this land, and you're always sticking things most

spk_0:   21:13
bureaucratic, but also but also that the most slam dunk application whatsoever. Get rid of documentation because that documentation frequently gets lost today. And let me tell you what if you lose a bit of lady of yours, it was Wait Bill re because

spk_1:   21:28
there's from using

spk_0:   21:29
expensive right on end. It ought to be easy to make that go away, so those who really want him to move Blockchain forward. Two things first of all, find Find the sweet spot of pain point where boxing is the obvious solution. And then don't try and attack the whole world and change the whole world over. Not because that's not gonna happen to find, you know what? What, what a famous politician once called the coalition of the willing make it happen on dhe. It'll spread like like rings in the war.

spk_1:   21:59
Yeah, Yeah, I think I mean, I think we're beginning to see it. And, of course, a CZ always and with changing General, we humans are creatures of habit, so we don't like to change. Plus, there are some deep political implications. Administration implications. This job's on the line, of course. Is that this paper, these people that push this papers around Actually, we're happy and supportive of this. Absolutely.

spk_0:   22:21
But that's also why I mean, I was at a conference once, maybe a year ago, where Merce wish they had an example. Said we've we've investigated how much papers involved in moving a shipment off Coco from Nigeria Thio rather than and and people second every single week. There's about 37 centimeter told stack of paper that's ultimately involved from from from the sailors starts sailing until the by has the cocoa. Uh, and that was a very interesting example. You know, whether there were 300 pages, documents, something like that. But to me was yes, it was interesting. And for a while, fact, it's it's cool. But that's not what you're going to start. Your implementation then, is it because, as you correctly say, those 300 pieces of babe, especially in economies, developing countries, you're right. There's a lot of money and there is a lot. There are a lot of jobs, attention to those speeches. Margin need to find it is, in my opinion, we need to start implementing. It is from developed countries to other developed countries conscious that probably already have enacted between them and for themselves a significant liberalization off requirements. I could see, you know, from China to the U. S. Second see from Europe to the U. S. U S Europe that lets that started there.

spk_1:   23:51
I think some people are trying to find the biggest beast

spk_0:   23:54
in the jungle and attack that did. You'll never do it

spk_1:   23:57
start small. I think that Singapore thing way warden apart is that, um yeah, you're right. I mean, it's way. Just gotta get a few of the success stories out small, but starting in there, it will go The role for a good question from Ah, good question from now, Bill, um, e commerce is growing inside is growing everywhere all over the world. What is Elektra Luxx doing? In terms of reaching your customers on e commerce

spk_0:   24:26
turns, Amazon is being mentioned here and way our problem Business partner of Amazon. Impossible. Predominant in, uh, you're a bundle of American, I think. I think if you're if you're an Electrolux, you find yourself or assuming the industry is out, you find yourself in the interesting, uh, a little bit between a rock and a hard place. Uh, it is very clear that that developing you know, an Amazon life distribution network on your own is a fool's errand. Yeah, they cost the astronomical. We don't have the volume. We don't need to secure scale king economists. Right on. So you're really gonna reward? Of course. In which horses do you bet? On the way. So far, Bed on on Amazon. Uh, but the other hot place that you're up against this, that we, of course, remain a big box retailer supplier in a very, very big way. Uh, I just 20 lakhs. Customers are all the big retailers in the world, whether it should be a key aides lows. Sears. It's it's all markets Costa off Asia are Normans and good guys. And you know there is a there's a tension in the air because, of course, we have to be very careful that we don't anger the retailers by shifting to two months from e Commerce Channel. On the other hand, we also have to leverage scaling, the comedy channel says. And there's a balancing act that I'm not sure we're finished with. Calibrate. Yeah, but But at the root of this question is those electoral believe that he coming, coming and I could sell? Yeah, we believe you got was coming digitalization and e commerce, and not just the e commerce in terms of the Sails transaction and and obviously comment in terms of the logistics transaction to physical delivery in yesterday's. It's not just about that e commerce has a whole different problems in terms of tiny and untrue uh, thio to you on what we call the end of 360 consumer journey. If you imagine an infinity loop, you know, somewhere in off any given point that you could put the sale. But after that comes the on boarding, the ongoing experienced servicing, the the addition of Service Is and and Accessories

spk_1:   27:04
River, suggesting alternates rivers in

spk_0:   27:07
and then ultimately, of course, willfully lied. Consumer continues along that Infinity Newman comes back to work. The next sale occurs, and e commerce holds tremendous promise for Ross to develop that even further. We've also made a couple of e commerce related acquisitions. Of course. Last year we we bought a small company called and Over Over Makes a Swede cookers based out of San Francisco, and then over is nearly 100% B to C under their own steam on. That's been a tremendous learning for us working with these people. And it's quite interesting that the small company that 27 employees

spk_1:   27:50
27 contract absolutely think something

spk_0:   27:55
like that Fixed Employees is actually almost single handedly transforming the way people across electroshocks thinking about how how we communicate how we manage e commerce has been in such a revelation

spk_1:   28:11
that is impressive.

spk_0:   28:12
Very, very impressive. But it's also very impressive company. Also very impressive product, which you have to be sure that close purchase.

spk_1:   28:25
I mean, that's that's incredible, actually. About a story, right way handle Sir Charles Brewer, the CEO of the Age of the Commerce, in one of your sport custom and because you said that the commerce is coming. Actually, probably commerce is already here, and it's just gonna grow. And Charles was saying that the train has left the station. I mean, you better get on the train or get hit by the train. There's no two ways around it station. You'll only be left on the station. Having there's this whole, uh, deserted streets in the U. S of empty shops is I mean, it's it's it's happening at the large scale.

spk_0:   29:00
And I spent a couple of months over the U. S. Actually a combined holiday and business during which we rented a couple of houses but almost never visited the shop during the time of I mean, you know at the time you would order something on Amazon morning by one PM

spk_1:   29:23
on us. US. Is a great story. but also China. And I'm sure Ali Baba buys and capabilities of logistics of It's just, um, Brita. Brita has a interesting questions. Well, so did you already eat? Elektra looks consider using the empty space in washing machine to fill it with other shipping.

spk_0:   29:48
She? Yes, was it? Yes, we did. I mean, it isn't It's a good question. Reason it za creative question. It's a question we asked actually many years ago. We looked at, I think, 10 years ago whether we could, for example, you know, put smaller appliances inside larger plants and seduction lives in the empty space. Because it is very true that when you shoot 200,000 insane this year, you're shooting a ridiculous amount of air. Imagine just freezers and whatever it is, it's almost it's almost, you know, ratio off 1 to 9 products. Air refrigerators at the same breath washes and dries. Not so much, but it was something we love, that we found it to be impractical. A because, uh, may be linked Rock city, but the products that we had that could fit inside a larger plants. It belonged to a different division which has had and still has a very different supplies, had footprint from major appliances, which meant that we would have to start introducing di consolidation sensors redistribution double a triple quadruple handling. And when you do the trade of calculation on that versus the shipping cost that you go to save, it turns out that it's not. It's a nonstarter. Thea. Other thing, of course, is that when you when you do stuff like that, the way actually have made some some trial runs. Uh, the damage rate goes up through the roof, right? Because you know you can't have stuff that's rattling around inside a refrigerator damages Richard and potentials of the product, and it just wasn't Yeah, yes, absolutely good, Good. Good question. Yeah, didn't work for us. My work for all this, but for us and turned out all kinds of reasons. So,

spk_1:   31:46
Britta, if you're thinking of trying, get the, you know, tread with care. I think this is a

spk_0:   31:57
creative proposal. But that it's hot isn't isn't there is a proposal to Justus Russian stuff that that's already, you know, big on people's minds, which is the course of consolidation. There's nothing wrong with consolidation. It can save you it's on the money you do need to. When you look at consolidation incentives, you have to live with the additional. Well, you are introducing into the process. And is there really a trade off? In case that wasn't

spk_1:   32:24
yeah, met together, her eyes asking Detective. First of all, it is a very, very straight question. Do you think that free food as a dead man walking and with all the tech talk, who will pay for the investment before we see the return?

spk_0:   32:41
No, I don't think free for the dead men walking into it a little bit. It's a little bit of a similar question to the question we had very gone around, you know, where is there room for Fred Forward and supplies in this absolutely room for free followers? I don't see. First of all, just because there are some large customers with developing house capabilities, it doesn't mean that there aren't hold on a necessities and medium size. And small customers that don't have anything afraid Falling Service's way also have need for grateful. That's the question is which service is to the to the freight role in this, based that this is more along again. If the based on pure afraid I trust, then they probably out there meant walking. But I don't know any free forward today. That's basing the business model, I'm afraid, Dr Trying. Which kind of brings it to the second question saying about Matthew's question, Right? With all the tech talk, who will pay for the investment before we see the return? So massive con advances is his own question. Tick is technology, and providing signal ity is, uh, it's the price of entry today for for For for free, who will pay for the investment? A frightful It's a look. I've been on the supply side as well. I know that exactly what he was talking about. The solutions are costly, and it is very difficult to create a business case for because because fundamentally, the business case rests on building and they will come. We hope they will come right,

spk_1:   34:22
which is the reason which is the real deal, and

spk_0:   34:25
you know that that's yes. That's a risk that a faithful will have to take. But it's a risk that any business with Jake it's a risk that a shipping line takes when they go out in order to live in your shit for a new string day. Certainly hope that they will be the man that's officially take when we build a factory. Well, when we make investments in new tooling of new technologies. So if if what methods really asking is how, how how can we pay for it up front answers. We can do business risk that you have to take off like any other business. Certain technologies are absolutely the price of injury. I think almost no matter what you want business with other, other, more, more adventure. The technology. I would be careful with investing in, especially when you get it onto the resplendent spent the side of things. I did invest in that alongside with a customer, Uh, because they're too many solutions out, that we have not yet seen the market. This still,

spk_1:   35:24
actually, we're far from the sale, and this morning on

spk_0:   35:28
inundated on my own, I think thin profile with people trying to sell me all kinds of tech solutions, and it's great. And I'm grateful that they reach out, although I do wish they would, you know, recharge and slimy Maur focused manner. But this tells me that there are so many people out there trying to find, you know, extreme that, right? Yeah, it's the market is not still get it.

spk_1:   35:54
Yeah, and just do it to you, to your point. And I mean, I guess it sze also what? What I know. And from what I most seeing on my side, anything in the industry, the closer the partnership. And there's a few of this successful, very successful partnerships between three pills and shippers in the world, the better and the more you can you can you can jointly work together. And, of course, then as a three piece, you can look sort of the decline for a long time. And, of course, there should be a trade. The trade off. It is the way to do it in. As you rightly said, I mean, you need to have the three people Increasingly, they need to have a strategy on the solution and design a solution and better if you

spk_0:   36:29
are, if you are in any job free, beautiful manufacturing or anything else, and you're not spending every single day thinking about how to utilize your upper issues that I think you should do your company.

spk_1:   36:48
Also on the flip side. Good. You know, it's a it's a good good question. Italy ways. Okay, we talked about technology, but before, before we even go and invest millions and billions and digital and you taking all that, What do you believe? Other fundamentals, right there. Really core fundamentals of supply chain in today's world.

spk_0:   37:10
Today's environment, if we take that to mean a globalised supply ship. Yeah, uh, well, you know, I keep going back to visibility. You have to have the absolute fundamental, the dependency. You must have some kind of visit. Really? Platform. I would recommend going with one of the really big ones because I think a lot of the really small ones are gonna go away other than a Star Labs startups Risky way we've gone with eugenics is, but there are many other platforms out there that are very good. That would be you. Get to ya, caveman. Children run in case you get your computer running and then start thinking out about, uh, your income respectful. How can you service that right? If you're a service provider right now, get westerly In Matthew's question of lead, Matthews is with a three billion. Forgive here. We really can't talk about being being left at the station. If you don't have missed, that's That's one of the things that I learned quickly. It's amazing. So that looks to learn when I got involved in the integration of the acquisition of a Nova Inter Electrolux and very often mighty mother first boots on the ground when we we've made an accusation simply,

spk_1:   38:31
you have to know what the key is the backbone of

spk_0:   38:34
1st 1st of all, generally very few people, very few companies we have. Why have any objections or getting integrated in charge of distance necklace? Because it tends to save themselves money. And we turned it into a fine Not so you could do it very quickly. Get very, very quick results, right? So so. But I was absolutely astonished when I when I said food and, you know, while I sat down and talked to these people about how they've managed pure B to C business and ships over a 1,000,000 units a year individually, usually by Korea from four different fulfillment centers in the world and the technology that they used to do that it was all out so a few blocks from that, can't name gives a reading one serves, you know, free of exciting. But the service providers who live and then we're really been fun on being able to manage the entire process is also talking about the water taking process. I'm not just talking about I'm talking about the order and the Detroit visibility. The the Ocean Freight year, the the ultimate picking back into slavery and all the technology and 60 managed that. And what was astonishing to me was not only that these companies head interested in that technology, but there they were, essentially giving it away. There's no additional challenge for using that, and it that's built into whatever handling fees you're paying over there playing. But, you know, gone are the days when the three people could come to a client. Say what we could do all of this, and then, by the way, on the cost of our spaces, we also need you to invest up front 304 $100,000 in the waste management system. I was always outsell. Trust me, I've had to try and make it on. Your case is very difficult to make Now we're seeing business model for service provided. And any cruise, by the way, also, of course, challenges outfit Say, Well, that we know that's the price of injured at his part of the service offering on. We will just have to find a way to get a July ending, please. Yeah. Yeah. So visibility? Uh, yeah, capability. And if you want to play, you know, you have to go and find yourself in the e commerce platform that you can provide to you now, five years ago. Okay. Too late.

spk_1:   40:51
Yeah. Yeah. You don't. Nobody as far as anyone knows. Um, final position on this segment. If you were an investment in, sir, if you were in the investor which supply chain technology related, start up, would you invest in and why?

spk_0:   41:09
Start up. That's it. That's a good question. I got rather not mean cos I would, I would say I mean, I almost answer. I already answered that question I would find and those that I really believe in who've already gotten traction in Minsk rated e commerce platforms that they had to provide themselves, or that they licensed Thio service providers or cos I think best Let's go really got legs, huh? That that's what I would invest in. But as to whom I would invest in, I don't know. I don't know.

spk_1:   41:45
Way might mean you touch the blunts in the dip. It is Well, I mean, there's there's a lot of different players. Still, I mean, there's no there's no fuel, I guess Once said so. But

spk_0:   41:54
I would have

spk_1:   41:55
been a few years ago in terms of

spk_0:   41:56
which the matching technology would invest in on equivalently e commerce, Integrated found the tables up of

spk_1:   42:08
this is the end of part one stating for Part two, where we talk more about recruitment, talent and skills skips.